Hi Phil, I lived opposite '150' in the 1960s (at 209), at that time it was an access drive to the fields with a gate used by a farmer. I sometimes walked to Atwood school across the field.
Thanks for that, do you by any chance have photo of how it was back then? It would be great to see. I mentioned it in a video I made in the summer when I walked in the field behind there as someone kindly found out some information and shared it with me. It’s great to know you remember it from when it was open though!
In the early 70s we used to walk the dog around the fields & Riddlesdown, you could walk through the gap then, though I don't think it was a public right of way. I seem to recall seeing it blocked off with a full width builder's hoarding, probably during the 80s. I expect to stop undesirables, tearaways, burglars etc accessing the land. I expect it's still there rotting amongst the trees.
I grew up on Wentworth Way, when that wooded area was corn fields which our house backed onto. I just remember your mystery as an access path to the fields, I guess used by the farmer. We could look across the fields to Atwood (where myself and my sister went to school) and often went round the field to get to school. Not sure if there was a house there once though; the house numbering would suggest there was I guess?
That’s the general consensus, Wendy. Would you know roughly when it switched from farmed land to common/woodland? I did some more research and wondered if that land was possibly owned by Atwood School? I might speak with them to see what I can find out. I’ll be filming a follow-up when I know a bit more.
I don’t know sorry. Was still a field when I left Sanderstead in 1985 to move into my first flat! My parents moved around 1990 and still a field then too I believe.
Recall as a young lad circa 1975 , mum used this as a cut through when walking us back from sanderstead towards tithepit shaw lane & hamsey green area. Have a vague memory it was just a tractor access from the fields to main road for the farmer .
That would make sense Chris. I lived just along the road for years but don’t remember anything going that way, mind you I wasn’t looking for it as such
Hi Phil, yes I do know what it’s for the gap 150 Limpsfield Road. In the 60s major pipe went from Limpsfield Road to Riddlesdown through all the fields we used to drive the tractor through that gap to bats farm in Hamsey Green. Hope that helps you.
Hi mate, thanks for that! I saw on the deeds that there were rights to access the pipes and assumed it was standard domestic pipework but it makes sense now that it was major and therefore that would explain why there are no houses on it. Don't suppose you have any photos of it?
We spoke about this recently. Glad to see you've taken it to the next step. Nobody that I know over the years (and there have been a lot of them) has ever solved this mystery. Possibly just an original entrance to the woods and fields at the back that has just got overgrown through time? I'll keep asking. Cheers. GL
Could well be an old entrance, Graham. The mapping doesn’t make it clear but there are many years between map revisions so that could be the case. Quite a big entrance but would have been part of the development plan for that area in the 1930s - if they still exist.
It’s looking that way, Steve - based on comments so far. I’m surprised that a developer didn’t move in once it was deemed that access was no longer required. I’m hoping someone comes up with an old photo. Glad you enjoy my content! 👍🏻
I wonder if my friend Ricky would have any idea what it might be, as he has lived near there for some time, I'll ask him, you never know. Thanks again for another great video cheers
Phil we always thought it was originally owned by Laing homes who built Holmwood Avenue and all roads around Riddlesdown school-My aunt bought in Holmwood Avenue in 1956 and the original plan was to build over the whole of Riddlesdown but I believe the green space act came in? 150 could well have been an entrance to the estate?
Ooh that’s worth investigating - it makes perfect sense. I wondered also about the land being owned by the Atwood Estate originally (and school?) and need to follow up about that. Thanks Sarah!
@@philswallow Hi Phil, I think Sarah is spot on - like you, I only noticed it relatively recently despite having been a regular walker/cyclist in the area for years. Similar nascent "access roads" can be found on either side of Mitchley Hill (and less obviously on Old Lodge Lane in Coulsdon - Canon's Hill and Caterham Drive would have been linked up to it I reckon, also very likely Chaldon Way off Marlpit Lane - New Hill would have been developed I'm sure!) where pre and post war development of woodland was halted by the Green Space Act. The track between Mitchley Hill and Riddlesdown School (Dunmail Drive) even has a roundabout on it about halfway up! Also the three cul-de-sacs on the south side of Mitchley Hill...
The map I used in the video is one of the National Grid maps from the 1940s-70s. Earlier maps of the same scale were before any major residential building had taken place in that area. I have found out more information now from a very helpful viewer, I just need to put a video together as a follow-up
If you wanted you could get ownership of that land. The term is Adverse Possession, in a nutshell, you fence it, and put a sign up saying it's private land with a contact phone number. After 10 years if no one contacts you or the land registry to prove they own it, then it becomes yours. There is a woodland near me that is like that, I'm very tempted but in a small rural village, it is probably better to not upset the guy who does the muck spreading in the fields around my place.
What’s odd is that it didn’t come up on the land registry search. I tried the general area as well and thought is would show the owner of the fields and woods behind it that stretch down to Riddlesdown. It looks like it was originally an entrance for farm vehicles but unlikely to have been used for at least 50 years. When I get some more evidence I’ll make a follow-up. This crowd-sourcing approach seems to work!!
@@philswallow About 15% of land that is not registered as it was not a law to do so, in 2002 it was changed that it had to be registered if there was a change of state, sold mortgaged etc. It could be that the plot is access to the land behind, but it could also be that when the area was sold as building plots someone bought it and then never built on it. I don't know how old the area is but it could be as simple as the deeds were lost maybe in the war or in a house fire. Then the owner dies and the family are none the wiser. When you start looking there are quite a few odd ones. When we were young, there was a plot on Sunny Bank in Chelsham, I just checked it now has a new house on it. So someone got lucky.
Hi Phil, I lived opposite '150' in the 1960s (at 209), at that time it was an access drive to the fields with a gate used by a farmer. I sometimes walked to Atwood school across the field.
Thanks for that, do you by any chance have photo of how it was back then? It would be great to see. I mentioned it in a video I made in the summer when I walked in the field behind there as someone kindly found out some information and shared it with me. It’s great to know you remember it from when it was open though!
@@philswallow sorry Phil, I don’t have any photos from that time
In the early 70s we used to walk the dog around the fields & Riddlesdown, you could walk through the gap then, though I don't think it was a public right of way. I seem to recall seeing it blocked off with a full width builder's hoarding, probably during the 80s. I expect to stop undesirables, tearaways, burglars etc accessing the land. I expect it's still there rotting amongst the trees.
I grew up on Wentworth Way, when that wooded area was corn fields which our house backed onto. I just remember your mystery as an access path to the fields, I guess used by the farmer. We could look across the fields to Atwood (where myself and my sister went to school) and often went round the field to get to school. Not sure if there was a house there once though; the house numbering would suggest there was I guess?
That’s the general consensus, Wendy. Would you know roughly when it switched from farmed land to common/woodland? I did some more research and wondered if that land was possibly owned by Atwood School? I might speak with them to see what I can find out. I’ll be filming a follow-up when I know a bit more.
I don’t know sorry. Was still a field when I left Sanderstead in 1985 to move into my first flat! My parents moved around 1990 and still a field then too I believe.
Many thanks, Wendy. Stay tuned for the sequel!!
Recall as a young lad circa 1975 , mum used this as a cut through when walking us back from sanderstead towards tithepit shaw lane & hamsey green area. Have a vague memory it was just a tractor access from the fields to main road for the farmer .
That would make sense Chris. I lived just along the road for years but don’t remember anything going that way, mind you I wasn’t looking for it as such
Hi Phil, yes I do know what it’s for the gap 150 Limpsfield Road. In the 60s major pipe went from Limpsfield Road to Riddlesdown through all the fields we used to drive the tractor through that gap to bats farm in Hamsey Green. Hope that helps you.
Hi mate, thanks for that! I saw on the deeds that there were rights to access the pipes and assumed it was standard domestic pipework but it makes sense now that it was major and therefore that would explain why there are no houses on it. Don't suppose you have any photos of it?
@@philswallow been watching your shows all day today very interesting. Love the history of the area brilliant. Keep it up mate. Jeff.
Glad you like it mate, loads more planned, just need the rain to stop!
Maybe the "hush hush classified" NATO fuel line pipe ?????
We spoke about this recently. Glad to see you've taken it to the next step. Nobody that I know over the years (and there have been a lot of them) has ever solved this mystery. Possibly just an original entrance to the woods and fields at the back that has just got overgrown through time?
I'll keep asking. Cheers. GL
Could well be an old entrance, Graham. The mapping doesn’t make it clear but there are many years between map revisions so that could be the case. Quite a big entrance but would have been part of the development plan for that area in the 1930s - if they still exist.
Guessing old access for farmer to get to his fields or a gap for developer hoping to build more houses behind.
Enjoy your shows, thanks 🙂
It’s looking that way, Steve - based on comments so far. I’m surprised that a developer didn’t move in once it was deemed that access was no longer required. I’m hoping someone comes up with an old photo. Glad you enjoy my content! 👍🏻
I might nip up there for a walk on Friday - my day off....
I wonder if my friend Ricky would have any idea what it might be, as he has lived near there for some time, I'll ask him, you never know. Thanks again for another great video cheers
Peter, I will be revealing all in my podcast on Monday!!
I'll be watching cheers
Phil we always thought it was originally owned by Laing homes who built Holmwood Avenue and all roads around Riddlesdown school-My aunt bought in Holmwood Avenue in 1956 and the original plan was to build over the whole of Riddlesdown but I believe the green space act came in? 150 could well have been an entrance to the estate?
Ooh that’s worth investigating - it makes perfect sense. I wondered also about the land being owned by the Atwood Estate originally (and school?) and need to follow up about that. Thanks Sarah!
@@philswallow Hi Phil, I think Sarah is spot on - like you, I only noticed it relatively recently despite having been a regular walker/cyclist in the area for years. Similar nascent "access roads" can be found on either side of Mitchley Hill (and less obviously on Old Lodge Lane in Coulsdon - Canon's Hill and Caterham Drive would have been linked up to it I reckon, also very likely Chaldon Way off Marlpit Lane - New Hill would have been developed I'm sure!) where pre and post war development of woodland was halted by the Green Space Act. The track between Mitchley Hill and Riddlesdown School (Dunmail Drive) even has a roundabout on it about halfway up! Also the three cul-de-sacs on the south side of Mitchley Hill...
Nice Video Phil! Enjoyed the details. Thought about doing a FOI with local council? You might have your answer!
Regards
Naushad!
Great idea, I will speak with their local history team on my next visit!
Curious. What date was the oldest map that you mention?
The map I used in the video is one of the National Grid maps from the 1940s-70s. Earlier maps of the same scale were before any major residential building had taken place in that area. I have found out more information now from a very helpful viewer, I just need to put a video together as a follow-up
If you wanted you could get ownership of that land. The term is Adverse Possession, in a nutshell, you fence it, and put a sign up saying it's private land with a contact phone number. After 10 years if no one contacts you or the land registry to prove they own it, then it becomes yours.
There is a woodland near me that is like that, I'm very tempted but in a small rural village, it is probably better to not upset the guy who does the muck spreading in the fields around my place.
What’s odd is that it didn’t come up on the land registry search. I tried the general area as well and thought is would show the owner of the fields and woods behind it that stretch down to Riddlesdown. It looks like it was originally an entrance for farm vehicles but unlikely to have been used for at least 50 years. When I get some more evidence I’ll make a follow-up. This crowd-sourcing approach seems to work!!
@@philswallow About 15% of land that is not registered as it was not a law to do so, in 2002 it was changed that it had to be registered if there was a change of state, sold mortgaged etc.
It could be that the plot is access to the land behind, but it could also be that when the area was sold as building plots someone bought it and then never built on it. I don't know how old the area is but it could be as simple as the deeds were lost maybe in the war or in a house fire. Then the owner dies and the family are none the wiser. When you start looking there are quite a few odd ones. When we were young, there was a plot on Sunny Bank in Chelsham, I just checked it now has a new house on it. So someone got lucky.
I hope someone has some answers. Never noticed this before 🤣
It will probably be something really lame! 😂😂
Phil, talking to the wife, did you go to Warlingham school and have you got a twin brother? Thanks, Jeff.
Yes and yes, and older sister!