History of WWI Primer 125: US Browning 1917 Documentary
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 มิ.ย. 2020
- Othais and Mae delve into the story of this WWI classic. Complete with history, function, and live fire demonstration.
C&Rsenal presents its WWI Primer series; covering the firearms of this historic conflict one at a time in honor of the centennial anniversary. Join us every other Tuesday!
Additional reading:
candrsenal.com/recommend-read...
surplused.com/
The Machine Gun: History, Evolution, and Development of Manual, Automatic, and Airborne Repeating Weapons
George M. Chinn
The Browning Machine Gun, Vol. I
Dolf L. Goldsmith
Conference of General Staff Officers at the Staff College, 18th to 21st January, 1909
The Ordnance Department: Planning Munitions for War, Volume 3, Part 1
Constance McLaughlin Green, Harry C. Thomson, Peter C. Roots
Ammunition data thanks to DrakeGmbH
/ drakegmbh
Animation by Vbbsmyt
/ vbbsmyt
Support this content at:
/ candrsenal
OR
www.subscribestar.com/candrsenal
Or buy prints from the show:
candrsenal.com/shop/
Snail Mail us at:
C&Rsenal
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Box 103
JOHNS ISLAND, SC, US, 29455
William Crozier is the best recurring character on this whole channel, bar none. His obstinacy and short-sightedness is legendary.
To be fair, he was a product of Ordinance lessons of the Civil war where the US had dozens of "official" small arms designs in different calibers. That was a mess nobody wanted to repeat. Add to that, the fact that he held his post in the midst of giant leaps in firearms. You don't want to adopt something only to have it be problematic next week (like the French being saddled with the 8mm Lebel cartridge). Yes he failed to grab some good designs quickly (or at all) but undoubtedly he saved us from some headaches as well.
He looks like a Jack Russell that's had too many kicks to the head by hooved animals.
@@popuptarget7386 I think it might be interesting to have retrospective on him later in the show, his good and bad calls based on what he had in front of him. It is easy to look back and see the mistakes but I see him as a guy who was under tight budget limits and trying to make the best calls he could with the info at hand.
Bear in mind also that there's a sort of survivorship bias here: Designs that Crozier rejected that were ultimately adopted - whether by the US or by some other power, and whether in the form he rejected them or after further development - in time to be used in WW1 get an episode; designs that he rejected that never went anywhere, or even just required enough further development that they didn't go anywhere in time for WW1, do not.
He is a product of BuOrd and good things that come out of BuOrd are few and far between
>sees Crozier's face
>recoils and hisses
Man it was a rough day at the office, but the bearded history cavalry has arrived at the eleventh hour...
"there will be no shooting all history" perfection
Same here (now).
That is by far the sneakiest War were Declared ever witnessed
It caught me more off guard than it did for US Army Ordinance
Anthony Hayes To be fair, Ordnance knew it was coming, but was just then learning on the job how to organize a large industrial capacity to work together. Before 1914 their job was operating under extreme budget restraints and pick and choose carefully for what little budget the Army had. Remember all those single shot rifles and rifles with magazine cut offs? Largely adopted and retained because they couldn’t afford to supply much ammunition to the few troops they had.
whatever floats their goat.......
This episode's "War Were Declared" transition was phenomal. Literally laughed out loud.
“This man has had the third most screen time... John Moses Browning” *angry Paul Mauser noises*
I was thinking crozier....
@@GunFunZS **Angry WEETS in the background**
@@GunFunZS Crozier is an interesting character. His report Ordnance and the world war_ a contribution to the history of American preparedness by William Crozier 1855-1942 is an very interesting insight into all sorts of problems with trying to basically expand the arms industry overnight. It can be found on Internet Archives.
Paul mauser made a single rifle design Not really impressive compared to Browning
@@zacht9447 To which Othais alluded to "a design that is improved throughout.." Many models of the basic Mauser bolt action constantly upgraded and improved. Used by most of the world's armies including the US. Springfield models 1903, 1903A1, 1903A3 and the US model 1917.
You have a rare talent, in making what would often be dry history into something fascinating and entertaining.
Bravo Zulu.
Now I'm going to bed at 1am on a Tuesday.... 200% worth it, y'all are the best TH-cam channel.
Oh yes. 40ish minutes of pure Browning history. This is nice. Oh yes.
So we have to wait 2 more weeks to see Mae? Outrageous I do declare!
@rwsthedemonking I saw her smile about 4;25 mins . Rewatch to get your Fix . I love the Shooting smile .
Yay, more primer.
Yay, more machine guns.
Yay, more Browning.
YAY, MORE WTF US ORDNANCE DECISIONS!
When I first saw the M1917 I just assumed it was another Maxim derivative
Little did I know how much I was wrong
At least now you're in the know
That animation of the working of the action only proves even more that machine gun Moses was the GOAT of gun making and an absolute genius.
I'm a simple man, I see CnArsenal video i hit like. And also last time I was this early are heavenly father John Browning was still waiting on the US government to make up its mind On the machine gun they wanted
"This is gonna be a big story we need to split it in two parts"
*Video is less than half the length of other machine gun episodes*
You’ve got his number
I prefer it this way. Easily digestible in one go.
Maybe the next episode is 1 and a half hours?
Or more likely it's a stalling tactic due to Coronavirus making it harder for him to do the show.
We swapped over to a teleprompter. The show is shorter because there is less pulling from memory and the information is better compacted.
As far as the script, this half of this episode is longer than the whole Lewis Gun script from back in the day.
St. John Moses Browning: You know....you might as well have a cardboard cut of me right next to you with how often I'm on this show. I should be getting some of that TH-cam money.
Someone outta make one and send it to them, and whenever he gets mentioned, they just whip it out
Who knows? Browning might negotiate royalties for his apperance on the show
Mathias Lindgren His descendants could!
It's like Indy Neidell keeping a painting of Conrad von Hotzendorf in the background of his WW2 show
Great work everyone! And I'm thankful you included the battle goat. This is going to make a great two-parter!
I hope you consider doing an entire show dedicated to William Crozier once you're through the Primer series. It'd be nice to see the back story and politics around his tenure as the Chief Ord-O.
Sorry to spoil it but post war he became a Guinea Pig
@@Legitpenguins99 Reincarnation is a bitch!
@@Legitpenguins99 Who likes blueberries.
@@JenniferinIllinois Who doesn't?
Othias is honestly very humorous in a completely unique way
Your most effective animation segment to date.
So interesting to see the innards as compared to the M2s that I tore appart on many occasions. I can see how JMB got there from this. The changes he made really simplified the design. The man was a true mad scientist (engineer)
Thanks for another great video!! By far one of the best historic educational channels on TH-cam!! Thanks for all the work you guys do!!
An absolute marvel of mechanical simplicity compared to the Maxims. Very much looking forward to part 2.
That just set a new high bar for the Animaetion and Maesplanation. So many things about it were so helpful. Best ever. Well done.
Japanese Infantry: attempt to over run the Marines
John Basilone: *Death before Dishonor*
Who needs an asbestos glove when you already have skin?
Shout out to the thousands of Japanese soldiers that were massacred
G'day,
Ah, well, as it happens, IF John Basilone had have ever said that..., while repelling a Night Attack - and there is no evidence that he did...; but IF he had said that..., then two points should be raised..., to wit,
1) That's a misquote Pilgrim, the original Obsequious Platitude stated,
"My Honour
Is
My Loyalty...!"
And Point 2) is that to read or say it in English requires translating it from German ; because that was the Motto of Heinrich Himmler's ShuftsStaffeln..., ie the Nazi German SS...!
So, how long do you claim that John Basilone would've lasted - as an Italian-descended US Marine, while Italy was at War with Unkle Spam..., if he had started spouting Nazi Slogans in a Combat Zone ?
Using Trumpy's contemporary Facist & Nazi quotations and exhortations doesn't count, because during WW-2 anybody who talked like Trumpy does now - would have Bin-Shot as a Treasonable Enemy Agent.
Just(ifiably ?) sayin'.
Take it easy.
Facts are REAL.
History HAPPENED.
;-p
Ciao !
@@vks_productions The Browning - antidoting banzai charges since 1942.
@@WarblesOnALot Death before dishonor is a common saying that probably predates european civilization, phrases aren't one-time use. It was also used by the Romans, and is very common among the USMC.
Oh my god, I've been waiting for this episode for so long! The last time I was this early, it looked like the Hun was going to win the war! Looking forward to the next episode.
Othais and Mae, stay healthy and safe. We need you out there bringing us great history for a long time.
Digging all the context you give to understand weapons design. Just being interested in old firearms and watching you, I accidentally learned more 1860-1920's history than they could teach me at school!
Also looking forward to the next episode and hoping you do get to make an episode on Colt-Browning 1895.
Detailed ,interesting and informative . Fantastic as always .
Always a good story when crozier is involved
Daddy Browning will one day return and bring us a resurrection of firearms design
Of which some politicians will promptly ban possession, possibly even mention, of them.
Thank you. I love your videos; informative & do appreciate the accuracy & precision. Again, thank you.
I am surprised these guns don't get more praise. It seems the Vickers always gets praised but the m1917 is superior in many aspects. Great video Othais
The breakdown of how it works is amazing.
Imaging if Browning had access to kickstarter/fundme
He had access to Winchester and FN. In the late 1800s, that was more or less the same thing in his field. :)
I was really looking forward to a +1h 1917 episode... you made my day regardless
Those animations are glorious.
Great video, looking forward for the next part!
One thing that could be said about the Ordinance Corps prior to WWI, they did not suffer from Not Invented Here Syndrome. Krag, Mauser,Maxim????, etc.
That's actually a good point.
I have to say, Ohias is a great host. Making history really enjoyable to listen to! :)
"But wait there's more." Othais channeling his inner Billy Mays.
Wow... y’all did it, absolute mad people.
Nice work guys. Keep up the good work.
Loved the video.
17:26. What fun!!! Great history as always.
A great show, thank you.
A Mae voice over it far better than no Mae at all, Two weeks until the next show will still be damn long. God Bless you all.
24:25 "If successful, your outie becomes an innie"
I always knew you were a man of great culture Othias but you never seize to amaze me. I love you so much in a completely heterosexual way.
Refreshing the page paid off, YESSSS!
I feel old Johnny Boy deserves a nickname. We've already got "Ol' Dirty Firdy", we demand another!
The Notorious J.M.B., surely.
DO I SENSE A NEW CNARSENAL VIDEO?! AND THE M1917 AT THAT! THIS IS AMAZING!!!!!!!!!! E
Now all we have to do is wait for a Small Arms of WWI Primer M1911 pistol episode.
Edit: Well, after Part 2 of the Browning M1917.
"Third most screen time" the best line ive heard today 😆
Had to hit they hay....finished it this afternoon. Great as usual.
2:50 I've seen that actual rifle at the John Moses Browning Museum in Ogden Utah. It was absolutely amazing.
Excellent as usual.
General Crozier's first strike: The way-too-heavy Maxim vs. a native-engineered-gun by Browning!?
Not just that, the heaviest possible Maxim, just makes ya wanna say Huh?
We don't need Lewis guns! Back in my day we had to load each shot one and a time, and this was after crossing two rivers and climbing a hill to the depot, in the snow too! A man had to learn to appreciate his bullet, and kids these days have no care! They just want to spray the countryside! They have no respect, no courtesy for their fellow man! Also f*** that guy Lewis I don't like 'em!
~Old Coot Crozier
Would Love to see more videos like this discussing the finer details of the adoption and trials.
*Mentions 1911 once.
Everyone in the room: Do it! DEW IT!
At what point does the military just give up and say, "this gun was designed by Browning, I guess we are adopting it?"
Never. Every one of them came out of Browning’s shop as a crude prototype that had to be polished, improved and redesigned for series manufacturing, and then adapted to meet Government specifications. Browning was an incredible ideas man. He needed engineering teams to take his prototype firearms the rest of the way.
@@jeffreyroot6300 We really don't know that, it's kind of just a theory at this point.
Well done!
Take a look at the mechanism of Browning's .22 semi-auto rifle. Then look at the mechanism of the 1917 and the 1919. Browning's .22 rifle is almost a miniaturized version of both machine guns, right down to the striker fire, the placement of the recoil spring, the top feed and the bottom ejecting.
Building Machineguns in Suits and Ties, thats class.
There are pictures of shepherds tending their flocks in suits and ties from the mid to late 1800s. Different times!
The "sports jacket" was actually the casual attire of the day, a simpler, cheaper outfit than the formal clothes being worn at the time.
Everybody classy until Joe's tie gets stuck in a machine.
@@jeffreyroot6300 It's more that in the early days of photography and film having your picture taken or being filmed was considered a _super_ big deal and called for one's Sunday best.
The concept of acting natural also wasn't a thing yet. So you often see people looking super awkward and stilted, like a middleschooler giving a presentation.
I guarantee that they dressed a lot more casual when not being filmed. As they tended to in candid photos from the era. But when they knew someone would be coming by to take photos or film them, that was different.
I remember some years back a military museum in Gettysburg Pennsylvania had a model of 1917 machine gun
The period footage shown was later--at the Remington plant in Bridgeport,CT--I have seen stills from that reel
Speaking of usage of French artillery, my Grandfather (AEF, US Army, 130FA/bat B) was a messenger/telephone line repairman. I believe they utilized the French 25mm. He heard the church and city bells ring at 11:00AM, Novenber 11, 1918. All guns were firing up and until those bells rang.
75mm perhaps?
The 1917A1 was the first belt-fed MG I ever shot. It belonged to a close friend of mine who was a class 3 dealer. That would have been around 1978. What a great fun gun, more so than the 1919 because you could risk long bursts without fear of barrel damage.
I shot 1919s a lot in the army, both on ground mounts and coax in my tank. IIRC we were taught that a barrel had a life of 5000 rds. They were basically disposable. We had no (little, anyway) concern about burning them out and fired the guns until they were glowing red.
@@minuteman4199 Regrettably, that's not a practical option for most collectors.
This seems like the silliest route to take for a machine gun tbh...a giant highly machined and complicated ass LMG/HMG until you see we are still using nearly the same thing lol.
It still amazes me that ANYONE could get something that complicated designed, and then built...especially back then, let alone to have it do it so well and be so reliable and all just work
Freedom Dakka!!! Yayy! No Mae! Boooo. But hungry for part two, thanks for all your work, guys.
21:41 Othais had no way of knowing how much later he would be dubbing it lol
Despite being produced 6 years later, this is the machine gun used in Red Dead Redemption, though the one used in Red Dead Redemption II is the more historically accurate world standard Maxim gun
Surplused.com has been promptly bookmarked. It has over 300 pages! I just enjoyed Ian's Walther Q5 "Arabesque": Art in the Form of a Match Pistol as the first of many videos I'll be watching. Full marks to Othais because this site has tons of very interesting videos. Well Done, Sir!
Go see it, folks.
Keep at it boss. Love the vid
27:11 Wow wow wow wow! Spinning off Barrels is TIGHT!
Stamp of quality: Six people were in such a hurry to click thumbs up that they clicked thumbs down by mistake.
That rear sight seems very similar to some of the No 4 Mk I rifle sights
I hope you will do an episode on how this eventually became the 1919 model and subsequent variations after that.
Gosh, watching a Jimmie Vaughan docu and trying to sleep for work, but you all put this video up lol.
I was just searching for this after rewatching the episode on the 1914 hotchkiss and it wasn’t there. My lucky night I guess.
Awwwww! I was really hoping to see Beardman trying to lift that machine gun unto his desk!
Can't wait for the next part, oh rats I will have to wait.
The reason why we switched at the 11th hour is because we switched to a gun that actually worked.
We switched as soon as we heard them say “ Browning”. That’s usually all it takes.
Crozier has a heck of a hard on for J.M. Browning.
Or was it that he hated Mormons so much he chose anyone else’s design first?
To be fair he probably didn't even know about his faith, even today most gun people don't know it either.
Anyone think we’re going to get an Small Arms of WW1 Primer M1911 pistol episode after the Browning M1917? I mean John Moses Browning was a well known gun designer of machine guns, pistols and rifles.
This was fun.
Like it, We LOVE it sir!!
Oh shit... its finally here!
$238 for a 1917 machine gun? Damn I wish inflation didn't exist... and a machine gun ban.
Same.
No more riots or looting!
Nice. Good weapon.
I hope you also make a video about the browning M2 .50 cal.
Wow! Just Wow! At least we got to hear Mae. Thanks for another wonderful story about John M. Browning. Do you know if he ever came up with any good pistol designs? ;)
You're kidding right?
Bad Ass...lovin' the 1917 Browning...!!
IT HAS ARRIVED
"But what could be so tantalizing of an invention, that they would take this risk?"
Why? Because...
JOHN
MOSES
BROWNING
Hope you got pictures of Serial Number 1 at Springfield Armory.
What benefit does the adjustable aperture size on the rear sight give? Is it just a comfort thing, or does it actually affect aiming? Never used an aperture sight.
I interrupted a Canadian prepper video, to watch this!!!!
Mae is cool and all, but I'm in it for the history.
I'm here for Mae's grin.
Watching the look at the inside and disassembly I was like "this looks familiar I've seen this before, oh yeah the M2"
yay!!
Hey bro! How about leaving a link to part 2 hu?
Are we going to get another browning 19xx soon?
Probably not. That's the big go to Springfield armory episode and show all the prototypes episode.
Nyet! Series is fine!
Might still be a few 18xx left... Grin
I doubt it. The M1919 is a bit out of the scope of this series yet, but I would expect it to get a brief mention in the next episode
@@88porpoise he was implying the 1911