Basing your numbers on Github is very, very flawed. People over 30 tend to have more important things to do with their time other than make a bunch of pet projects and put them on Github. I code to get paid and usually check in on a work email account so my personal github account doesn't reflect my coding activity. If you want this to be anything other that total nonsense you need to base it off of real employees working at real companies, not Github.
I thought this was the most obvious reason. I mean devs with a degree, assuming they didn't get the degree later in life, would have graduated 2002 or before if they're 40+. Looking at the stats, just going 2002 to 2016 for comp sci majors is about equal to all comp sci majors that came before that. Add on another 5 years and devs 40+ would be about a third of the possible dev population based on the growth in the degree programs. Then you add in attrition, people who go into management, etc. and it makes sense that it would be 15 to 20% of the devs out there. This isn't a perfect example because of the self taught devs but it's a pretty good approximation of why there are fewer older devs out there.
Except that the number of Computer Science BS degrees issued in 1987 (approx. when I graduated) was the largest number EVER. I used to sit in Intro classes with 150 people in them. That doesn't happen now.
@@craigriecke2403 nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d12/tables/dt12_349.asp Only 39k. And 1986 had more. Since 2001 almost every year has had more grads than that. So while there was a large up tick mid 80s, it dropped a ton in the 90s and 70s had next to nothing. 00s on has had a consistent higher number of grads.
I'm 45, and I was on the cutting edge of computing. Computers was not a large industry when I was growing up. Do the survey in 15 years and you will see the demographics change.
Im 41 and still building out server backends for the web. I wish I met more people my age, frontend engineers all seem to be in their mid to late 20's.
@@BinaryReader i will be 41 next month. I working on a start up with a bunch of youngsters. I might say im the oldest. It doesn’t seem to bother anyone. I work with mobile, web and backend. Focused more in web and mobile. I like coding and I have turned down higher roles. This is what I like doing and I prefer to stay this way.
I agree with your last point, but come on 45 and on the edge? When do you started your career? 1995? If you started at 1980 i would agree somewhat with that point. If you carried 1MB of RAM which was worth at this point 1M Bucks over your campus, then i would trust you.
@@ulliausleverkusen to clarify my point is that computers were not as prolific as they are today. I remember being high school and only 5% of students had computers at home. I went to college and only me another guy in the dorm had computers in our room. Computers didn't become prolific until 1995 when the internet became marketable for all. Now kids are born with an iPad in their hands. So why is there a drop off in computer industry over 40+? The generation didn't have a desire to learn computers, so most didn't.
I'm 63 and have been coding since the mid-1980s. Others in the comments have made some good points about the flaws in the video. One thing that it missed entirely is that programming is an applied science. If a programmer stays mostly within one industry, as I have, they will learn so much about an industry and how software and systems are applied in the industry that that knowledge becomes more valuable than programming skills.
@MAHESH Vaidya Sir,I am going to start IT carrier with .net MVC and I am from electrical background. I have heard that for 40+ age in IT industry kickoff employees or don't give insentive. So,plz tell how to do job in IT industry for 60 year age or see other carrier
Last year a 41 years old full stack web developer join the company. His mindblowing development speed, knowledge, and cool personlity is impresive. He is the equivalent of 3 times the next best dev of 34 in productivity
54 and coding since the age of 15. I’m passionate by computing sciences and coding has been a huge part of my life. I chose to share this passion, I now teach at University. Being close to younger people also helps remaining young in your head. For those over 40, the key idea is certainly that age doesn’t matter if you have passion for what you do! Coders are digital artists, so many ways to accomplish things, and for all arts, experience matters…
Being almost 41, I see a lot of younger folks around me. But something I have that they don't: a longer view. Often younger devs get upset about something, not realizing that it's temporary, and won't be like that six months from now. Or perhaps they'll want to write something on their own from scratch, unaware of the 3 libraries out there that already do what they need. Or perhaps they're great coders, but don't yet take into account the actual systems their code will be running on. There's room in the world for you if you're over 40, that's for sure.
I agree that there's room in the world for you if you're over 40. But I believe you have to make that room yourself. You can't be just another programmer, competing with 20 year olds. Cheers.
Or maybe the reason is that computers were much less popular 40 years ago and therefore less people from that time learned programming. Sounds more likely to me.
This is probably a significant factor this video missed. As a ~40yo lead dev, I would prefer to hire people that have been around the block a few times and know what mistakes not to make. It is very hard to find these people to hire.
No. Computers were hugely popular 40 years ago. You haven't just stumbled on to a brand new industry. Programming has been a mainstream job for many decades now.
I've been a software developer for over 20 years and is now 41 years old. I do feel that its getting harder to keep up with the fast evolving technologies and thinking so much every day. This video holds a lot of truths.
I’m 51 and still developing (UK). You need to look at this from a different perspective. While tech changes quickly (and it’s a good idea to at least find out about latest changes), most companies can’t afford to keep upgrading their software and tech, which means there’s a demand for developers who can use older tech. All the young devs learn the latest and that leaves a gap in the market which can be lucrative. You don’t need to have skills for the tech that has most jobs advertised - that’s where most competition will be found - you only need to find one job. I’m not suggesting you should deliberately avoid learning new tech (in fact you should try to keep up to date) but don’t fret too much about it as you can find a niche whatever happens.
@@n4870s They skip most of the old stuff. Their head is not full of outdated technologies and methodologies. As a result they run into the old traps...
I agree, I'm going to be 39 and soon will have a computer science degree. I stay healthy and fit so that I may be in the field for a while and then eventually start my own company once I have enough business experience.
Just be careful. You are moving in to a hugely competitive market, where the vast majority of your competitors probably have more time and fewer commitments than you do. IMO your best bet is to focus on software product development rather than just "programming". The latter is a very limited role in the bigger scheme of things. Think of the Big Picture: the _why_ of making products, rather than focusing on technical issues.
46 years old, and yes, meanwhile in a leader role but still deep with programming. its a passion. always interested in new technology and willing to learn. will never, never stop programming!
i'm 32 with barely 10 years experience, and i'm already starting to divide my time between work(web dev) and hobbies(woodworking and electronics). it gets kind of stale to always be thinking about development. i want to be doing something else by the time i'm 40 if hopefully money and investments do well.
I'm 52, currently a technical lead (or rather "the" as I'm the only one in the company, a startup). Tried for a while to move higher in the corp ladder and didn't really like it, so came back down. I really didn't want to be that manager who still thinks his programming knowledge from 10+ years ago remains relevant. Tried consulting for a while and was also miserable. Engineering and consulting are two very different branches requiring very different skills. I'm no consultant. If I can give a piece of advice is this, be sure you understand the difference because what makes you strong in one makes you weak in the other. Keeping up with newer technologies that are relevant to you is key. Yes my entire team is much younger than me, that doesn't bother me, I'm not there to socialize. I could not imagine a day where I would not want to program anymore. Hopefully, I've delivered good news for those looking to have a long career in software development.
@@ViktorFerenczi Consultants must be result oriented. They work on a variety of projects under usually insufficient time and budgets. This means that, when facing a tradeoff, a great consultant will always take the option involving less work. The best consultants I've ever worked with could come up with the most creative effort saving solutions. Engineers on the other hand care about the process. How the solution is built and how it works internally. They work long term on the same solution so must have a longer term vision. Maintainability becomes an important concern. They still have budgets and deadlines to meet but its not usually as tight as consultants.
My advice to all programmers, regardless of age: plan to become your own boss, as soon as you can. Focus more on BUSINESS, and treating your employment as a business proposition, instead of focusing on Javascript frameworks and language esoterica. Think like a PRODUCT DEVELOPER, not a programmer. (There's a big difference.) You do NOT want to be at the mercy of a tech giant for your employment when you hit 40 or 50. Realistically, you are not going to get a job at that age. (Look around you, how many grey hairs do you see?) "But, I'm not interested in business, I'm interested in programming", you say. Well, my answer is: good luck to you. You're going to need it. Because your financial future and wellbeing is a business challenge, not a technical challenge. You're not going to solve those challenges by being opinionated about a Javascript framework or IDE. Also: understand that your attitude to programming will change over the years.
I’m 45. I just started a course learning python. Im burned out from my current industry. I’m getting into it because it’s something I felt has always fit my skillset. I also want something that will enable to work remotely and travel more.
On the same boat guys, im 43 here and currently learning reactjs and MERN for web development and planning to learn python after, wishes all goes well for us!
Same here, guys. I'm 42, and I started learning a couple of weeks ago. I work on an IT Service Desk. I don't hate it, but I want to get off the phones and into something challenging that keeps me learning. I hope your journey has been good so far.
Yeah and not a lot of COBOL on GitHub, flawed data set and flawed assumptions. Devs over 40 may have more important thing to do than answer surveys and even bother with GitHub.
All the programmers I know that tried to retire, a small sample I admit, managed for a month or two or even six and then someone came along and piled money in front of them until they agreed to go back to work.
@@UP-zq1ml actually it's both as the high quantity leads to poor quality when dealing with labor. To many people rush to the field thinking it is easy money or that it sounds like fun and they don't take the time to learn how to troubleshoot, debug or even test their code. I've worked with so many devs who have over 5 years of experience and did not know how to use a debugger inside of their IDE and they debugged with console out if they even try. They don't know how to read a stack trace and just give up without trying to solve the issue and try to dump it on someone else.
@@w0mblemania this doubling will slow eventually but it's been constant at least since the 60s. Now with current expected population growth it doesn't appear that is very unlikely and assuming that the double will slow eventually it wouldn't happen.
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I've been developing since 1976 and still love it. I CAN CREATE THINGS that can make others' lifes richful and more feasible
Sad that the video misses on one obvious point : to be a 40 year old programmer in 2020, you had to be a 20 year old programmer in 2000. To be a 50 year old programmer in 2020, you had to be a 20 year old programmer in 1990. As uncle bob says : the old programmers did not go away, their just wasn't that much of them in the fist place ! Plus, the number of programmer is growing fast, but mostly with young dev. It will be interesting to see how much of us older devs stay in the biz in 10 years, though...
Hi i'm 42 and I can tell you the risk is not having grey hair..but becoming bald.. :-) apart from that, age is not a limit. The important thing is that if you are older and want a higher wage you have to back with higher skills. I wouldn't mind hiring someone 50 with great skills for 10 or 20K more than a junior..as long as he's good and fast. Another thing: Becoming manager is not for anyone. You need good tech skills but soft skills too (comunication, motivation)..as long as you keep learning there will always be a chance for you
If you ever feel too old, mentor a junior developer. Ask about their project. As you suggest ways to tackle their problems, listen to their simple questions, and be humbled by how much knowledge and wisdom you've gained through your additional journey through time.
I just turned 41 and I started to learn python this month. I am not afraid of being old at work if I am passionate to code. I think the question is whether this is something I wanna do. If yes, then go for it because you still have 20 freaking year to spend on work.
I'm looking to break into tech next year. I will be 40 next year and this is a big worry for me. Would I ever be hired because of my age? Is it more realistic to go remote?
This video is just reinforcing stereotypes without any sources. The number of software engineers has basically doubled every five years since WWII. So do the maths. Or just watch an Uncle Bob talk because he touches on this myth in pretty much every lecture he's ever given.
Nah. the video is spot-on. If the number of software engineers has doubled every five years, where are all the older programmers? Hint: they're no longer programmers. Look at the workforces of most any tech company: they're heavily weighted towards twenty-and-thirty somethings. In many companies, 50 year old programmers are almost unheard of. Sometimes, stereotypes are there for a reason.
@@w0mblemania you are missing the point. Think about it : if the number of developers doubles every 5 years, then today, 50% developers have less than five years of experience, 75% have less than 10 years of experience, 88% have less than 15 years experience, etc. The old programmers are still there, we make up compelling stories to explain a simple statistical artefact. It's a little bit embarrassing for people who are supposed to make a living with their brains to be so blindly mistaken, but that is also absolutely normal. I suggest you read Daniel Kahnemans' book Thinking Fast and Slow
@@ApprendreSansNecessite You're denying reality. It's understandable that the topic causes you some concern, but there's a reason why the video is made. Hiding from the facts is not a viable option. You're supposed to be a programmer, so think like one. Use logic and reasoning. Logically, there should be far, far more grey beards in the industry than there are. So ask yourself where those people have gone, and why. You cannot seriously show me the workforces of Apple, Google, FB etc. and tell me that they are representative. It's ridiculous.
After reading these comments... to a 20 year old watching this video, thinking that programming is a "new thing", 40 seems ancient. Like, retirement age. And 50 seems like an era before electronics.
Im 43 years old and was recently hired by IBM but i do see the generation gap. I have a video on my TH-cam channel talking about this same subject. Also the culture is different being black also women have a different experience. But overall you are on point.
Programming is still a young industry. 40 years ago it was 1980. So you won't get any older people yet. But in next 20 years a lot of current younger lot will be reaching 50s 60s and the demographic will change. That's what I feel. Good points in the video though.
It's not a young industry. 1980 was hardly the start of programming. We've had time for entire generations of programmers to retire, transition by now.
You probably missed the biggest reason, software engineering is a really new industry, so there are not a lot of developers with 25 years of experience because the demand for software engineers 25 years ago is exponentially lower than now, thus resulting in a ratio of developers with 25 y/o experience is much lower compared to newer and younger developers.
Though this video is ultimately encouraging continuous learning and staying current, I think the title will discourage some 30 somethings just getting started learning, perhaps changing careers with great general ability and social skills. Change the title to something like: 'Coding past 40', or more accurately: 'Speculation on why most coders are under 40'
Also, the principles of all languages are the same. Lloops, arrays, data structures, abstraction, inheritance, DDD etc... once you've learn the fundamentals, learning a language is essentially plug and play - a couple of days of learning the new syntax.
Didn't you think that is because the software industry is less then 30 years old? The older developers now is the proportion of the total developers worked in 2000x, when the industry was young. I am 43 and I worked in the development since the graduation from university. I am an expert in Angular, React, Vue and all of their infrastructure. So please don't call me a dinosaur.
The main problem with modern development these days, at least as I see it, is the lack of respect for hardware. There is a tendency to assume that with higher clock speeds and (almost) unlimited memory there is no need to watch how resources are being used.... big mistake. I still program with the mentality that memory is limited and high clock speeds are not a luxury - that way I don't end up with unwieldly code that's hard to follow and winds up presenting lots of bugs.
what can become difficult for the older software devs is the gauntlet of interview processes in place. they test you on arcane problems that you rarely solve in a day to day job or they give you take home assessments that take time out of an already busy life schedule. switching jobs therefore can be quite hard work unless you know the right people already. it's not all roses just because someone is currently in a good job. switching can be an unforeseen struggle.
This is ridiculous - how old are you, and have you met developers over 40?! 😂 I am 44, with 21 years doing web dev. Most of the people I work with are in their 20s and 30s and I have NO problem relating with these people.
I used to sit around learning new programming languages, and studying design patterns, and refactoring, and OOP. After doing all of that, they'll promote someone who has no interest or background in any of these things, and let them tell me exactly how to wrote programs. Usually, they'll tell me to just put all of the code in one really big program. If I don't do that, they'd yell at me, why is this so complicated. After a 10 years of that, I quit with the program design books, but I still read a Python book now and again. Don't ever expect to use it.
When you turn 40, they find a nice little dark corner for you in the basement and they call on you when they need to fix a bug in the legacy system, like most colbat developers nowadays.
The answer is seems to be much simpler. The number of IT companies and developers was growing rapidly during the last 20 years (10x or so). I am actually surprised the proportion of 40+ is so large in this video.
I've been a developer for over 30 years. Unless things have changed significantly recently, I can tell you that 40% of the devs do 80% of the work because most people just can't produce good code quickly. Age has nothing to do with it. However, when is comes to hiring people I think there is certainly age discrimination. For some reason, companies don't think we older guys can hang.
The Fast development reason is badly researched. Successful startups tend to hire ONLY senior devs precisely because they can build fast. Get a bunch of juniors in, half the year would be spent learning the stack and learning small projects.
*You have missed to main Point .....No company will adapt new tech frameworks or programming languages for major projects because the lack of maturity in them. So older developers who have knowledge of older frameworks will always be in demand 😊👍*
Another day, and more stupid TH-cam clickbait trash. FWIW: I'm 58 and have been programming since I was 17l I've been a freelance developer for 32 years; I have no problem keeping up with the Young Guns.
how's your physical health spending so much time at the computer, relearning tech every 10 years to remain employable, giving up social and dating life to maintain the above, relative to your non-programmer peers who get paid more purely for having "experience" while you have to prove yourself over and over at each job?
For another potential explanation. As an older programmer that is older than github and doesn't actively use it, I did not take part in this survey ... these results are potentially skewed.
This doesn’t even mention off shoring of Programmer jobs to India and Eastern Europe where older programmers will be laid off. I never recommend programming as a job to young people because of this. Corporations all over the country lay off the older guys then complain they can’t find programmers so they have to go to H1B visas. Outside of the Silicon Valley companies it’s often just a matter of time.
Then they have to revert the whole thing and re-build the in-house development team after some costly fiasco due to that off-shoring decision made by a manager left the company year ago...
they learn the hard way that offshoring or outsourcing isn't a panacea. it can often make the workload even higher since effective constant and detailed communication is still needed for this kind of work and business. software is generally developed to support the core of a business process so delegating it elsewhere doesn't make sense if a business wants to remain in control of its operations.
Most companies don’t need more experienced software developers is not really answering the question fully. The problem is 80 and software engineering in general isn’t one of the few career fields available that does not build on wisdom and experience because technology changes so rapidly that often times you can hire a high school kid who spends an entire summer learning react who is quite intelligent and full of energy and they can outpace a 45-year-old he’s having to learn the same new language but with kids, a wife and family at home and a tremendous amount of bills and responsibility to go with. This exist in no other industry and as you need to IT in fact wisdom and experience is one of the benefits of other major career fields like law, medicine, education in traditional engineering. There is your real answer.
Maybe it's because I'm turning 40 next year, but this video strikes me as not in touch with reality. First, on an aesthetic note, this video sounds like they hired a voice actor to narrate the script. Who does that anymore in 2021? Second, it discounts the value of institutional memory no matter how old the people involved are. Also, it doesn't take into account that maybe older engineers don't want to work for FAANG. There are a lot of programming jobs in less trendy areas such as aerospace, banking, etc. I wonder if you looked there if that would change the percentages.
I am 41 and still a developer, conundrum being I am not a x10 or particularly gifted but starting to really enjoy it as more than a vocation. Not sure where I will be in 5 years if the job offers start dwindling. Management looks pretty boring. Should have done dentistry
the job market is getting more competitive and your age / experience isn't necessarily valued that much by the average company. there's also the overloaded interview process which is exhausting if applying multiple roles and being rejected for failing some narrow form of a technical test.
20+ years of service Only man having coded in 5 different languages. You should have been at least a high profile programme director by now. Yet here you are a senior engineer. Why is that?
You can be in your 40s and work along with for 20 year olds. 😂 You just have to understand that y’all are at two totally different stages of life. You also have to understand that, as a programmer, your salary reaches a cap. The workforce is a competitive market.
the salaries are fantastic for young 20 something but frankly quite low for seniors above age 35, relative to what one could have reached in other professions. worse still is the constant pressure to relearn beyond the job because each company has a different stack and only wants to hire for their specific experience needs. there's no "made it" in this industry. just endless chasing the changes and pressures.
All the contrary. This industry allows to work until very very old. The downside is that many managers wont hire you. Thats also true. This video is a complete lie. Downvoted.
@@rolandcucicea6006 Yes. onjoFilms is either lying or misremembering entirely (maybe that's the point of their comment). There might be a language where that particular type signature for main is a convention or maybe onjoFilms worked at a place that used macros and defined #main to be void or something (so it would end up being functionally int main(void)…). If there is a different language where this is convention I would appreciate if someone could tell me about it because I've never come across it in 30 years of computing.
I am 44 and in Software development for 20+ years. You should definitely try it out. Things are a lot easier right now than when I started. There are a lot of different languages, frameworks and tools available now and if you don't like something then you can move to a different competing one. Also there is no reason to always be on top of the latest and greatest technologies. Learn what you like and stay there. Jobs are plenty, even for old and mature technologies. There are billions of lines of code all over and they need people to maintain and upgrade aging IT systems.
@@SavageScientist I’ll look up your channel. Starting to code again after I set it down for architecture long ago. I’m enjoying learning all this again, and was looking forward to get my foot in the door in the industry. I’m really curious what your channel says. Thanks.
If you want to learn do it and dive in. Plenty of people over 40 over 50 and so on learning for the first time and doing great. Some do it for a hobby, others to get some personal projects done, and others to start a new career. I say if you want to learn to code the do it.
@@creepygnome Thanks. Dove pretty hard into JavaScript/HTML/CSS/ APIs and Python (now adding SQL) about 6 months ago. Trying to build projects and trying to round off all the things related to JavaScript (SE) and to Python (DS). Hoping to do a career change, but a bit discouraging to see a video like this. I started on dos, fortran, c++ (ages ago) but it was just much more challenging getting learning material. So, didn’t get far with it. Now, everything is readily available; so much easier to look things up or connect with community. So, again, discouraging to see a video like this.
Age is a real thing. We need to be honest about it. Speaking broadly: a 50 year-old tends to have a different worldview and set of skills than a 20 year-old. They see the bigger picture and can understand better what is important or not, but tend to be less flexible and adaptable. They are less willing to do some of the things that a 20 year-old will engage in. e.g. overtime, crunches, putting up with stupid management decisions. A 50 year-old probably has mental and physical baggage. Time takes its toll and it's a rare 50 year old who doesn't have some kind of disability, illness or other health issue, or has to care for someone who does. 50 year-olds tend to have a lot of responsibilities outside of "programming". So they typically see "programming" as just a facet of their work/life, whereas many 20 year programmers "live" for programming. It's very unlikely that you will regard programming in the same way at 50, that you do at 20. Our values, concerns and beliefs change as we age. The importance of some things, like programming, may fall away completely. So, many (most?) programmers move on to "bigger picture" jobs like management, or create startups. Or, they leave altogether and start a new career, or go and finally build that boat.
@@w0mblemania Older programmers may also find that they can't keep up with the younger ones, and may find themselves pushed out of their job for that reason. I've seen that happen.
Also less exciting. All big things have been already developed. Generation gap was in the 80s when mainframe programmers find it hard to switch to PCs and had to find other job or retire. They learned to code for specific machines. Golden age of coding was at the of mainframes - from 80s to end of 90s. After that it is mostly marketing and less of tech.
Back in the old days, when computing power time was far costlier than human graduates, we did it by hand. We had to think through a problem, then map out a sensible path to help this to happen. We labored under verifying, unforgiving, trace tables' More recently I had been stunned by a mid-level managerial-type who just went about coding, no pathway charted.. No wonder we're getting creamed by malware and worse.
@@Rabits52because I’m 41 and a huge nerd who read a lot of AI science fiction. Also I think gpt2 was already available and I saw this was the future. Nice to have people reminding me of this. Status update: I’m doing a personal project using GPT4 for brainstorming, exploring pseudocode, writing functions, data generation. I’m also using it at my work (I’m still a developer) to generate code, write docs, review my code. One thing I couldn’t foresee back then is that I think, ironically, junior devs are going to be the first ones to go as they don’t have the experience to make informed decisions with the data that ai spits out. AI has become my junior dev assistant/idiot savant. I’m the person taking making the final call. I think next thing is going to be AI assistants, local models, open source fine tuning. I also think AI is going to start causing serious damage soon. See you in two years 😅
Uncle Bob states that roughly every 5 years the number of software engineers is doubling. That means that at every point of time half of the programmers have less that 5 years or less experience
I'm 30 and burnt out. No family, no own home, barely any money. Working 40 hour weeks trying to avoid back pain while staring on text editors in tiny room with plain white walls and no windows. Smeagol said go be a dev. Smeagol lied.
Are you trying to be a dev in the wrong country/industry? Move closer to a main hub with higher salary, try to specialize in topics more interesting to you. Look for companies where (most of) the product is the software itself and it is not just a small part of running their completely different business. Or just quit and do something else, which is more stratifying in life. The developer career is not for everyone...
@@ViktorFerenczi Thing is, nobody told me it's not for me back when I was _young_ . After all, world needs devs, they say that all the time. What they don't say is that if you suffer anxiety then equality talk goes out the window and fuck your salary. On that note I'd rather say that _life_ is not for everyone...
@@_vofy as a career path it hasn't worked out roses for me either despite having the passion and putting in the time and energy learning new tech etc. my peers are in far less stressful lines of work by age 40, with family, mortgage half paid off etc and they have no need to relearn new technology every 5 years for their salary to increase. they are respected in their fields and have a life outside of work. some of them wonder why despite me and other software devs they know work so hard, that we have little to show for it other than being very "switched on" all the time. then there's the need to exercise frequently to offset the damaging effects of working at a computer all day
No, it's correct. Show me a photo of all the grey-bearded programmers who work in the major tech companies. Their numbers are dwarfed by 20-30 somethings. Go look at this video, and you tell me how many grey-haired devs you see. www.canva.com/careers/
Every job sector has some kind of age discrimination. Software engineering job is not only improves creative mind set to human brain but also logical thinking skills to problems.
Nice, but this assumes you'll live forever - a more accurate representation might be : for age = beginCareer to Retire writeCode() next age Me.Dispose()
Some of us really enjoy coding and we love the feeling of solving problems and implement new things for our users. What is more valuable that being in the business that runs the world? Tell me something that is critical to our society that doesn't use software?
Coding is usually the easiest part and less time consuming of a développer job. Most of the time is usually spent on design discussions, planning, research. I usually code 1 to 2h per day, there are some times I even don’t code for days or a full week! It will obviously depends on your field of work but I’d say coding is 20% of the time of a dev work.
I have very bad synopsis basicly : all software which was written like years before even 5 years from right now is unmanageable mess , sure some exceptions happens ,but most times is a mess, how to solve this ? Well your company should start to work with outside contractors.
This video is only speculation!!!! The fact is, a career in programming was not as viable 20 years ago... in 10 -15 years it will all even out because a career in software engineering will no longer be new.
it is an oversaturated market at the moment for sure (despite that business complains there is a tech shortage.... no they just want 5 years experience in their specific tech stack and don't want to pay for it)
You forgot to mention outsourcing!!! That is ruining the Software Developer careera! Corporations outsource their work to third world countries instead to pay in-house Developers. Which adds to the stress that you will be outsourced tomorow, you never know.!!!
You are drawing an inaccurate conclusion from the data. Just because, 15% of the developers are over 40 does not mean that developers are dropping off when they turn 40 which might be true if the total number of developers were static over the last few decades. On the contrary I think its more likely that the total base of developers is growing rapidly, and its not that developers are dropping before 40, but the people that start developing are 15 - 30.
At some point, younger people who hear better than you, see better than you, and who are still impressed by the next big programming paradigm, will begin to outperform you. And your manager won't be pulling any punches during your annual review. Or maybe that's just me. I don't know. lol
This is so delusional. Where's the productivity factor? Programming is one profession that older people tend to do better with time. This is because the industry is broken.
Thi video is misleading do you think 40 is old? At least say 50, this was BS video made by a kid who cant get a job because he can't stand a chance to experienced programmers, do you think companies gonna trust a kid to play with their code an databases?
im 48 years old and an happy newbie programmer forever...
Basing your numbers on Github is very, very flawed. People over 30 tend to have more important things to do with their time other than make a bunch of pet projects and put them on Github. I code to get paid and usually check in on a work email account so my personal github account doesn't reflect my coding activity. If you want this to be anything other that total nonsense you need to base it off of real employees working at real companies, not Github.
I am 35, and every company is rejecting me because of my age.
It's not for your age for sure
Could also be because there wasn't that many programmers in the 80-90s.
Was looking for this. I believe it is the main reason tbh.
Yeah, this is mostly the demographics. While there are some truth behind the difficulties mentioned in the video, it does not tell the full story.
I thought this was the most obvious reason. I mean devs with a degree, assuming they didn't get the degree later in life, would have graduated 2002 or before if they're 40+. Looking at the stats, just going 2002 to 2016 for comp sci majors is about equal to all comp sci majors that came before that. Add on another 5 years and devs 40+ would be about a third of the possible dev population based on the growth in the degree programs. Then you add in attrition, people who go into management, etc. and it makes sense that it would be 15 to 20% of the devs out there. This isn't a perfect example because of the self taught devs but it's a pretty good approximation of why there are fewer older devs out there.
Except that the number of Computer Science BS degrees issued in 1987 (approx. when I graduated) was the largest number EVER. I used to sit in Intro classes with 150 people in them. That doesn't happen now.
@@craigriecke2403 nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d12/tables/dt12_349.asp
Only 39k. And 1986 had more. Since 2001 almost every year has had more grads than that. So while there was a large up tick mid 80s, it dropped a ton in the 90s and 70s had next to nothing. 00s on has had a consistent higher number of grads.
I'm 45, and I was on the cutting edge of computing. Computers was not a large industry when I was growing up. Do the survey in 15 years and you will see the demographics change.
Im 41 and still building out server backends for the web. I wish I met more people my age, frontend engineers all seem to be in their mid to late 20's.
Yes, this is a great point.
@@BinaryReader i will be 41 next month. I working on a start up with a bunch of youngsters. I might say im the oldest. It doesn’t seem to bother anyone.
I work with mobile, web and backend. Focused more in web and mobile.
I like coding and I have turned down higher roles. This is what I like doing and I prefer to stay this way.
I agree with your last point, but come on 45 and on the edge? When do you started your career? 1995? If you started at 1980 i would agree somewhat with that point. If you carried 1MB of RAM which was worth at this point 1M Bucks over your campus, then i would trust you.
@@ulliausleverkusen to clarify my point is that computers were not as prolific as they are today. I remember being high school and only 5% of students had computers at home. I went to college and only me another guy in the dorm had computers in our room. Computers didn't become prolific until 1995 when the internet became marketable for all.
Now kids are born with an iPad in their hands.
So why is there a drop off in computer industry over 40+? The generation didn't have a desire to learn computers, so most didn't.
I'm 63 and have been coding since the mid-1980s. Others in the comments have made some good points about the flaws in the video. One thing that it missed entirely is that programming is an applied science. If a programmer stays mostly within one industry, as I have, they will learn so much about an industry and how software and systems are applied in the industry that that knowledge becomes more valuable than programming skills.
That's a very good advice! Thank you! - A 46 years old dev
Which is why I at 31 chose to just stick with C++. You can be great at anything but you can't be great at everything.
@MAHESH Vaidya Yes, I hope I didn't imply that it is ok to stop learning. I'm learning R and .NET MAUI. Never stop.
@MAHESH Vaidya Sir,I am going to start IT carrier with .net MVC and I am from electrical background. I have heard that for 40+ age in IT industry kickoff employees or don't give insentive.
So,plz tell how to do job in IT industry for 60 year age or see other carrier
Thank you for saying this. I'm 27
Me turning 40 this year and being a brand new programmer 👁👄👁 lol
I remember waaay back when i was 40
You're not alone haha. But we all travel our own paths in life
Hang in there this was a bullshit video
@@void_star_void
Thanks.
Pretty discouraging video.
Same here! 1 year left for uni!
Last year a 41 years old full stack web developer join the company. His mindblowing development speed, knowledge, and cool personlity is impresive. He is the equivalent of 3 times the next best dev of 34 in productivity
54 and coding since the age of 15. I’m passionate by computing sciences and coding has been a huge part of my life. I chose to share this passion, I now teach at University. Being close to younger people also helps remaining young in your head. For those over 40, the key idea is certainly that age doesn’t matter if you have passion for what you do! Coders are digital artists, so many ways to accomplish things, and for all arts, experience matters…
Being almost 41, I see a lot of younger folks around me. But something I have that they don't: a longer view. Often younger devs get upset about something, not realizing that it's temporary, and won't be like that six months from now. Or perhaps they'll want to write something on their own from scratch, unaware of the 3 libraries out there that already do what they need. Or perhaps they're great coders, but don't yet take into account the actual systems their code will be running on. There's room in the world for you if you're over 40, that's for sure.
LOL i be in scrum meetings with them all the time and all i can say is i remember when...
I agree that there's room in the world for you if you're over 40. But I believe you have to make that room yourself. You can't be just another programmer, competing with 20 year olds. Cheers.
Or maybe the reason is that computers were much less popular 40 years ago and therefore less people from that time learned programming. Sounds more likely to me.
This is probably a significant factor this video missed. As a ~40yo lead dev, I would prefer to hire people that have been around the block a few times and know what mistakes not to make. It is very hard to find these people to hire.
Good point.
Indeed.
Well that statement can be qualified by the fact that every 5 years the number of software developers double. Let that sink in.
No. Computers were hugely popular 40 years ago. You haven't just stumbled on to a brand new industry. Programming has been a mainstream job for many decades now.
I've been a software developer for over 20 years and is now 41 years old. I do feel that its getting harder to keep up with the fast evolving technologies and thinking so much every day. This video holds a lot of truths.
But isn’t that true for any profession?
I’m 51 and still developing (UK). You need to look at this from a different perspective. While tech changes quickly (and it’s a good idea to at least find out about latest changes), most companies can’t afford to keep upgrading their software and tech, which means there’s a demand for developers who can use older tech. All the young devs learn the latest and that leaves a gap in the market which can be lucrative.
You don’t need to have skills for the tech that has most jobs advertised - that’s where most competition will be found - you only need to find one job.
I’m not suggesting you should deliberately avoid learning new tech (in fact you should try to keep up to date) but don’t fret too much about it as you can find a niche whatever happens.
Well if experienced devs can’t keep up with tech how could young devs can?
@@curtmantle7486 Very well said. (46 years old dev here.)
@@n4870s They skip most of the old stuff. Their head is not full of outdated technologies and methodologies. As a result they run into the old traps...
I'm 40 and just know getting into software development... I think anything is possible
I agree, I'm going to be 39 and soon will have a computer science degree. I stay healthy and fit so that I may be in the field for a while and then eventually start my own company once I have enough business experience.
And as a side note i am a female so i feel like im a rare breed😎😎
Just be careful. You are moving in to a hugely competitive market, where the vast majority of your competitors probably have more time and fewer commitments than you do. IMO your best bet is to focus on software product development rather than just "programming". The latter is a very limited role in the bigger scheme of things. Think of the Big Picture: the _why_ of making products, rather than focusing on technical issues.
46 years old, and yes, meanwhile in a leader role but still deep with programming. its a passion. always interested in new technology and willing to learn. will never, never stop programming!
I’ve moved my career late in the game. I’m in my 40s and just got my first software engineering position.
i'm 32 with barely 10 years experience, and i'm already starting to divide my time between work(web dev) and hobbies(woodworking and electronics). it gets kind of stale to always be thinking about development. i want to be doing something else by the time i'm 40 if hopefully money and investments do well.
34 and same energy.
If i don't have the option of retiring at 40, i feel like i failed :')
I'm 52, currently a technical lead (or rather "the" as I'm the only one in the company, a startup). Tried for a while to move higher in the corp ladder and didn't really like it, so came back down. I really didn't want to be that manager who still thinks his programming knowledge from 10+ years ago remains relevant.
Tried consulting for a while and was also miserable. Engineering and consulting are two very different branches requiring very different skills. I'm no consultant. If I can give a piece of advice is this, be sure you understand the difference because what makes you strong in one makes you weak in the other.
Keeping up with newer technologies that are relevant to you is key. Yes my entire team is much younger than me, that doesn't bother me, I'm not there to socialize.
I could not imagine a day where I would not want to program anymore. Hopefully, I've delivered good news for those looking to have a long career in software development.
Thank you, very useful comments! Could you please elaborate on the different skills needed for engineering and consulting? - Thanks!
@@ViktorFerenczi Consultants must be result oriented. They work on a variety of projects under usually insufficient time and budgets. This means that, when facing a tradeoff, a great consultant will always take the option involving less work. The best consultants I've ever worked with could come up with the most creative effort saving solutions.
Engineers on the other hand care about the process. How the solution is built and how it works internally. They work long term on the same solution so must have a longer term vision. Maintainability becomes an important concern. They still have budgets and deadlines to meet but its not usually as tight as consultants.
My advice to all programmers, regardless of age: plan to become your own boss, as soon as you can.
Focus more on BUSINESS, and treating your employment as a business proposition, instead of focusing on Javascript frameworks and language esoterica. Think like a PRODUCT DEVELOPER, not a programmer. (There's a big difference.)
You do NOT want to be at the mercy of a tech giant for your employment when you hit 40 or 50. Realistically, you are not going to get a job at that age. (Look around you, how many grey hairs do you see?)
"But, I'm not interested in business, I'm interested in programming", you say. Well, my answer is: good luck to you. You're going to need it. Because your financial future and wellbeing is a business challenge, not a technical challenge. You're not going to solve those challenges by being opinionated about a Javascript framework or IDE.
Also: understand that your attitude to programming will change over the years.
I’m 45. I just started a course learning python. Im burned out from my current industry. I’m getting into it because it’s something I felt has always fit my skillset. I also want something that will enable to work remotely and travel more.
Same here my man, 42
On the same boat guys, im 43 here and currently learning reactjs and MERN for web development and planning to learn python after, wishes all goes well for us!
Same here, guys. I'm 42, and I started learning a couple of weeks ago. I work on an IT Service Desk. I don't hate it, but I want to get off the phones and into something challenging that keeps me learning. I hope your journey has been good so far.
Me being 39 not relating to anything said here yet
Well I am still coding in COBOL and there are many my age retiring and more and more offers are out there for COBOL. Been coding over 40 years.
I’m curious what kind of $ you see in COBOL programming. Is it competitive compared to other jobs?
Yeah and not a lot of COBOL on GitHub, flawed data set and flawed assumptions. Devs over 40 may have more important thing to do than answer surveys and even bother with GitHub.
@@unclefreddy2009 $100k is regular
(Note to self - COBOL)
All the programmers I know that tried to retire, a small sample I admit, managed for a month or two or even six and then someone came along and piled money in front of them until they agreed to go back to work.
You didnt talk about the single most important factor of all. The amount of developers double aproximatively every 5 years.
Yeah which means there will always be way more devs with less than 5 years experience than there will be those with more than 15 or even 20.
Sure there are more and more, but companies are still having trouble to hire GOOD developers, quantity is not the issue but quality is.
@@UP-zq1ml actually it's both as the high quantity leads to poor quality when dealing with labor. To many people rush to the field thinking it is easy money or that it sounds like fun and they don't take the time to learn how to troubleshoot, debug or even test their code.
I've worked with so many devs who have over 5 years of experience and did not know how to use a debugger inside of their IDE and they debugged with console out if they even try. They don't know how to read a stack trace and just give up without trying to solve the issue and try to dump it on someone else.
At what year will everyone on Earth be a developer?
@@w0mblemania this doubling will slow eventually but it's been constant at least since the 60s. Now with current expected population growth it doesn't appear that is very unlikely and assuming that the double will slow eventually it wouldn't happen.
I've been developing since 1976 and still love it. I CAN CREATE THINGS that can make others' lifes richful and more feasible
Sad that the video misses on one obvious point : to be a 40 year old programmer in 2020, you had to be a 20 year old programmer in 2000. To be a 50 year old programmer in 2020, you had to be a 20 year old programmer in 1990. As uncle bob says : the old programmers did not go away, their just wasn't that much of them in the fist place ! Plus, the number of programmer is growing fast, but mostly with young dev.
It will be interesting to see how much of us older devs stay in the biz in 10 years, though...
Hi i'm 42 and I can tell you the risk is not having grey hair..but becoming bald.. :-) apart from that, age is not a limit. The important thing is that if you are older and want a higher wage you have to back with higher skills. I wouldn't mind hiring someone 50 with great skills for 10 or 20K more than a junior..as long as he's good and fast. Another thing: Becoming manager is not for anyone. You need good tech skills but soft skills too (comunication, motivation)..as long as you keep learning there will always be a chance for you
If you ever feel too old, mentor a junior developer. Ask about their project. As you suggest ways to tackle their problems, listen to their simple questions, and be humbled by how much knowledge and wisdom you've gained through your additional journey through time.
I just turned 41 and I started to learn python this month. I am not afraid of being old at work if I am passionate to code. I think the question is whether this is something I wanna do. If yes, then go for it because you still have 20 freaking year to spend on work.
I'm looking to break into tech next year. I will be 40 next year and this is a big worry for me. Would I ever be hired because of my age? Is it more realistic to go remote?
This video is just reinforcing stereotypes without any sources. The number of software engineers has basically doubled every five years since WWII. So do the maths. Or just watch an Uncle Bob talk because he touches on this myth in pretty much every lecture he's ever given.
Nah. the video is spot-on.
If the number of software engineers has doubled every five years, where are all the older programmers? Hint: they're no longer programmers.
Look at the workforces of most any tech company: they're heavily weighted towards twenty-and-thirty somethings. In many companies, 50 year old programmers are almost unheard of.
Sometimes, stereotypes are there for a reason.
@@w0mblemania you are missing the point.
Think about it : if the number of developers doubles every 5 years, then today, 50% developers have less than five years of experience, 75% have less than 10 years of experience, 88% have less than 15 years experience, etc.
The old programmers are still there, we make up compelling stories to explain a simple statistical artefact.
It's a little bit embarrassing for people who are supposed to make a living with their brains to be so blindly mistaken, but that is also absolutely normal. I suggest you read Daniel Kahnemans' book Thinking Fast and Slow
So true 👍
@@ApprendreSansNecessite So much for logic. If the old programmers are "still there", then where are they? They're not in in the industry.
@@ApprendreSansNecessite You're denying reality. It's understandable that the topic causes you some concern, but there's a reason why the video is made. Hiding from the facts is not a viable option.
You're supposed to be a programmer, so think like one. Use logic and reasoning.
Logically, there should be far, far more grey beards in the industry than there are.
So ask yourself where those people have gone, and why.
You cannot seriously show me the workforces of Apple, Google, FB etc. and tell me that they are representative. It's ridiculous.
40 is not old though
After reading these comments... to a 20 year old watching this video, thinking that programming is a "new thing", 40 seems ancient. Like, retirement age.
And 50 seems like an era before electronics.
Im 43 years old and was recently hired by IBM but i do see the generation gap. I have a video on my TH-cam channel talking about this same subject. Also the culture is different being black also women have a different experience. But overall you are on point.
Programming is still a young industry. 40 years ago it was 1980. So you won't get any older people yet. But in next 20 years a lot of current younger lot will be reaching 50s 60s and the demographic will change. That's what I feel. Good points in the video though.
It's not a young industry. 1980 was hardly the start of programming.
We've had time for entire generations of programmers to retire, transition by now.
You probably missed the biggest reason, software engineering is a really new industry, so there are not a lot of developers with 25 years of experience because the demand for software engineers 25 years ago is exponentially lower than now, thus resulting in a ratio of developers with 25 y/o experience is much lower compared to newer and younger developers.
You have a good point 👍
I think middle managers prefer younger devs because they don't contradict them or know their worth.
Though this video is ultimately encouraging continuous learning and staying current, I think the title will discourage some 30 somethings just getting started learning, perhaps changing careers with great general ability and social skills. Change the title to something like: 'Coding past 40', or more accurately: 'Speculation on why most coders are under 40'
I’m literally starting programming at 42. Relax with that.
Also, the principles of all languages are the same. Lloops, arrays, data structures, abstraction, inheritance, DDD etc... once you've learn the fundamentals, learning a language is essentially plug and play - a couple of days of learning the new syntax.
Then take the leap and learn functional programming...
Didn't you think that is because the software industry is less then 30 years old? The older developers now is the proportion of the total developers worked in 2000x, when the industry was young. I am 43 and I worked in the development since the graduation from university. I am an expert in Angular, React, Vue and all of their infrastructure. So please don't call me a dinosaur.
Dinasour
The main problem with modern development these days, at least as I see it, is the lack of respect for hardware. There is a tendency to assume that with higher clock speeds and (almost) unlimited memory there is no need to watch how resources are being used.... big mistake. I still program with the mentality that memory is limited and high clock speeds are not a luxury - that way I don't end up with unwieldly code that's hard to follow and winds up presenting lots of bugs.
what can become difficult for the older software devs is the gauntlet of interview processes in place. they test you on arcane problems that you rarely solve in a day to day job or they give you take home assessments that take time out of an already busy life schedule. switching jobs therefore can be quite hard work unless you know the right people already. it's not all roses just because someone is currently in a good job. switching can be an unforeseen struggle.
This is ridiculous - how old are you, and have you met developers over 40?! 😂 I am 44, with 21 years doing web dev. Most of the people I work with are in their 20s and 30s and I have NO problem relating with these people.
I used to sit around learning new programming languages, and studying design patterns, and refactoring, and OOP. After doing all of that, they'll promote someone who has no interest or background in any of these things, and let them tell me exactly how to wrote programs. Usually, they'll tell me to just put all of the code in one really big program. If I don't do that, they'd yell at me, why is this so complicated. After a 10 years of that, I quit with the program design books, but I still read a Python book now and again. Don't ever expect to use it.
When you turn 40, they find a nice little dark corner for you in the basement and they call on you when they need to fix a bug in the legacy system, like most colbat developers nowadays.
😂🤣😂
The answer is seems to be much simpler. The number of IT companies and developers was growing rapidly during the last 20 years (10x or so). I am actually surprised the proportion of 40+ is so large in this video.
I've been a developer for over 30 years. Unless things have changed significantly recently, I can tell you that 40% of the devs do 80% of the work because most people just can't produce good code quickly. Age has nothing to do with it. However, when is comes to hiring people I think there is certainly age discrimination. For some reason, companies don't think we older guys can hang.
I would appreciate some data on these factors.
POV: everyone in the comments is exactly 41 years old
The Fast development reason is badly researched. Successful startups tend to hire ONLY senior devs precisely because they can build fast. Get a bunch of juniors in, half the year would be spent learning the stack and learning small projects.
*You have missed to main Point .....No company will adapt new tech frameworks or programming languages for major projects because the lack of maturity in them. So older developers who have knowledge of older frameworks will always be in demand 😊👍*
Another day, and more stupid TH-cam clickbait trash.
FWIW: I'm 58 and have been programming since I was 17l I've been a freelance developer for 32 years; I have no problem keeping up with the Young Guns.
how's your physical health spending so much time at the computer, relearning tech every 10 years to remain employable, giving up social and dating life to maintain the above, relative to your non-programmer peers who get paid more purely for having "experience" while you have to prove yourself over and over at each job?
When you are older you value work-life balance more than $$$. Older devs can't be bothered to work 40hrs/week + overtime.
This title made me lol so hard. I got started at 38. Been in the industry for 6 years now. Retire at 40 my ass 😂
I got a bit depressed already 😬
Don't be. Take this video with a huge grain of salt. Read the comments from 50+ old devs above. Life is not black and white!
I'm 58 and not ready to retire !
For another potential explanation. As an older programmer that is older than github and doesn't actively use it, I did not take part in this survey ... these results are potentially skewed.
i retired at 34 because the cash was too much
this video is trash though the channel is good. linux is still linux. html5 is still html.
experience is invaluable.
Then were are all the old programmers?
This doesn’t even mention off shoring of Programmer jobs to India and Eastern Europe where older programmers will be laid off. I never recommend programming as a job to young people because of this. Corporations all over the country lay off the older guys then complain they can’t find programmers so they have to go to H1B visas. Outside of the Silicon Valley companies it’s often just a matter of time.
Then they have to revert the whole thing and re-build the in-house development team after some costly fiasco due to that off-shoring decision made by a manager left the company year ago...
they learn the hard way that offshoring or outsourcing isn't a panacea. it can often make the workload even higher since effective constant and detailed communication is still needed for this kind of work and business. software is generally developed to support the core of a business process so delegating it elsewhere doesn't make sense if a business wants to remain in control of its operations.
Gray hair doesn't mean senior . They may be junior developers .
Most companies don’t need more experienced software developers is not really answering the question fully. The problem is 80 and software engineering in general isn’t one of the few career fields available that does not build on wisdom and experience because technology changes so rapidly that often times you can hire a high school kid who spends an entire summer learning react who is quite intelligent and full of energy and they can outpace a 45-year-old he’s having to learn the same new language but with kids, a wife and family at home and a tremendous amount of bills and responsibility to go with. This exist in no other industry and as you need to IT in fact wisdom and experience is one of the benefits of other major career fields like law, medicine, education in traditional engineering. There is your real answer.
Just restarted coding at 48. I even did yet another MSc to make sure I am not outdated technically.
Maybe it's because I'm turning 40 next year, but this video strikes me as not in touch with reality. First, on an aesthetic note, this video sounds like they hired a voice actor to narrate the script. Who does that anymore in 2021?
Second, it discounts the value of institutional memory no matter how old the people involved are. Also, it doesn't take into account that maybe older engineers don't want to work for FAANG. There are a lot of programming jobs in less trendy areas such as aerospace, banking, etc. I wonder if you looked there if that would change the percentages.
Turning 40 and just getting started it's a bit more difficult to find a mentor being older
I am 41 and still a developer, conundrum being I am not a x10 or particularly gifted but starting to really enjoy it as more than a vocation. Not sure where I will be in 5 years if the job offers start dwindling. Management looks pretty boring. Should have done dentistry
the job market is getting more competitive and your age / experience isn't necessarily valued that much by the average company. there's also the overloaded interview process which is exhausting if applying multiple roles and being rejected for failing some narrow form of a technical test.
Some people program all their lifes, other program for 3 years and quit job. It all depends on the person.
Most of then don't reach 40 due to stress
20+ years of service Only man having coded in 5 different languages. You should have been at least a high profile programme director by now. Yet here you are a senior engineer. Why is that?
You can be in your 40s and work along with for 20 year olds. 😂 You just have to understand that y’all are at two totally different stages of life. You also have to understand that, as a programmer, your salary reaches a cap. The workforce is a competitive market.
the salaries are fantastic for young 20 something but frankly quite low for seniors above age 35, relative to what one could have reached in other professions. worse still is the constant pressure to relearn beyond the job because each company has a different stack and only wants to hire for their specific experience needs. there's no "made it" in this industry. just endless chasing the changes and pressures.
All the contrary. This industry allows to work until very very old. The downside is that many managers wont hire you. Thats also true. This video is a complete lie. Downvoted.
I'm 58, and after int(main){ - my mind begins to wonder.
isn't it int main(){ ?
@@rolandcucicea6006 Yes. onjoFilms is either lying or misremembering entirely (maybe that's the point of their comment). There might be a language where that particular type signature for main is a convention or maybe onjoFilms worked at a place that used macros and defined #main to be void or something (so it would end up being functionally int main(void)…). If there is a different language where this is convention I would appreciate if someone could tell me about it because I've never come across it in 30 years of computing.
Pro tip: start looking at the compiler output! :)
If I am 43, I shouldn't even consider learning to code? Help me understand my odds of becoming a coder at this age.
Im also 43 and i talk about this alot on my youtube channel.
I am 44 and in Software development for 20+ years. You should definitely try it out. Things are a lot easier right now than when I started. There are a lot of different languages, frameworks and tools available now and if you don't like something then you can move to a different competing one. Also there is no reason to always be on top of the latest and greatest technologies. Learn what you like and stay there. Jobs are plenty, even for old and mature technologies. There are billions of lines of code all over and they need people to maintain and upgrade aging IT systems.
@@SavageScientist
I’ll look up your channel.
Starting to code again after I set it down for architecture long ago.
I’m enjoying learning all this again, and was looking forward to get my foot in the door in the industry.
I’m really curious what your channel says.
Thanks.
If you want to learn do it and dive in. Plenty of people over 40 over 50 and so on learning for the first time and doing great. Some do it for a hobby, others to get some personal projects done, and others to start a new career.
I say if you want to learn to code the do it.
@@creepygnome
Thanks.
Dove pretty hard into JavaScript/HTML/CSS/ APIs and Python (now adding SQL) about 6 months ago.
Trying to build projects and trying to round off all the things related to JavaScript (SE) and to Python (DS).
Hoping to do a career change, but a bit discouraging to see a video like this.
I started on dos, fortran, c++ (ages ago) but it was just much more challenging getting learning material. So, didn’t get far with it.
Now, everything is readily available; so much easier to look things up or connect with community.
So, again, discouraging to see a video like this.
Mind & heart should be young forever , age is just a count
Suppressing snide comment here. I'm old enough to see this from a different point of view.
Age is a real thing. We need to be honest about it.
Speaking broadly: a 50 year-old tends to have a different worldview and set of skills than a 20 year-old. They see the bigger picture and can understand better what is important or not, but tend to be less flexible and adaptable. They are less willing to do some of the things that a 20 year-old will engage in. e.g. overtime, crunches, putting up with stupid management decisions.
A 50 year-old probably has mental and physical baggage. Time takes its toll and it's a rare 50 year old who doesn't have some kind of disability, illness or other health issue, or has to care for someone who does.
50 year-olds tend to have a lot of responsibilities outside of "programming". So they typically see "programming" as just a facet of their work/life, whereas many 20 year programmers "live" for programming.
It's very unlikely that you will regard programming in the same way at 50, that you do at 20. Our values, concerns and beliefs change as we age. The importance of some things, like programming, may fall away completely.
So, many (most?) programmers move on to "bigger picture" jobs like management, or create startups. Or, they leave altogether and start a new career, or go and finally build that boat.
@@w0mblemania Older programmers may also find that they can't keep up with the younger ones, and may find themselves pushed out of their job for that reason. I've seen that happen.
@@bobchannell3553 Agreed. We don't get quicker as we age. We try to make up for that with experience, and that works to an extent.
Maybe people over 40 can't be arsed to fill out the Stackoverflow survey. Like me.
Is it really difficult to work as a software engineer after 40😢. I don't want to retire very early.
Also less exciting. All big things have been already developed. Generation gap was in the 80s when mainframe programmers find it hard to switch to PCs and had to find other job or retire. They learned to code for specific machines. Golden age of coding was at the of mainframes - from 80s to end of 90s. After that it is mostly marketing and less of tech.
Back in the old days, when computing power time was far costlier than human graduates, we did it by hand. We had to think through a problem, then map out a sensible path to help this to happen. We labored under verifying, unforgiving, trace tables'
More recently I had been stunned by a mid-level managerial-type who just went about coding, no pathway charted.. No wonder we're getting creamed by malware and worse.
I’m 41. I’m more concerned about loosing our income to AI in the next 10 years than loosing it to younger devs.
2 years ago char gpt didnt exist how did you know about this
@@Rabits52because I’m 41 and a huge nerd who read a lot of AI science fiction. Also I think gpt2 was already available and I saw this was the future. Nice to have people reminding me of this. Status update: I’m doing a personal project using GPT4 for brainstorming, exploring pseudocode, writing functions, data generation. I’m also using it at my work (I’m still a developer) to generate code, write docs, review my code. One thing I couldn’t foresee back then is that I think, ironically, junior devs are going to be the first ones to go as they don’t have the experience to make informed decisions with the data that ai spits out. AI has become my junior dev assistant/idiot savant. I’m the person taking making the final call. I think next thing is going to be AI assistants, local models, open source fine tuning. I also think AI is going to start causing serious damage soon.
See you in two years 😅
Uncle Bob states that roughly every 5 years the number of software engineers is doubling. That means that at every point of time half of the programmers have less that 5 years or less experience
These github statistics simply reflect the growth in the industry
I'm 30 and burnt out. No family, no own home, barely any money. Working 40 hour weeks trying to avoid back pain while staring on text editors in tiny room with plain white walls and no windows. Smeagol said go be a dev. Smeagol lied.
Are you trying to be a dev in the wrong country/industry? Move closer to a main hub with higher salary, try to specialize in topics more interesting to you. Look for companies where (most of) the product is the software itself and it is not just a small part of running their completely different business. Or just quit and do something else, which is more stratifying in life. The developer career is not for everyone...
@@ViktorFerenczi Thing is, nobody told me it's not for me back when I was _young_ . After all, world needs devs, they say that all the time. What they don't say is that if you suffer anxiety then equality talk goes out the window and fuck your salary. On that note I'd rather say that _life_ is not for everyone...
@@_vofy as a career path it hasn't worked out roses for me either despite having the passion and putting in the time and energy learning new tech etc. my peers are in far less stressful lines of work by age 40, with family, mortgage half paid off etc and they have no need to relearn new technology every 5 years for their salary to increase. they are respected in their fields and have a life outside of work. some of them wonder why despite me and other software devs they know work so hard, that we have little to show for it other than being very "switched on" all the time. then there's the need to exercise frequently to offset the damaging effects of working at a computer all day
If there was alot of programmers in the 80's-90's I feel the average age would be 40-50 right now
Sorry, but what a bunch of BS.
No, it's correct. Show me a photo of all the grey-bearded programmers who work in the major tech companies. Their numbers are dwarfed by 20-30 somethings.
Go look at this video, and you tell me how many grey-haired devs you see.
www.canva.com/careers/
Every job sector has some kind of age discrimination. Software engineering job is not only improves creative mind set to human brain but also logical thinking skills to problems.
10 WRITE CODE
20 GET OLDER
30 GOTO 10
Nice, but this assumes you'll live forever - a more accurate representation might be :
for age = beginCareer to Retire
writeCode()
next age
Me.Dispose()
I'm 70 now and still programming.
I'm 61 & still coding.
I doubt that a lot of programmers want to continue coding 24/7 after 40. They are better off doing other valuable stuff.
But programming/coding is valuable for me. It’s really a hobby turned into profession. Can’t think of other work more exciting than this. Hahaha
Some of us really enjoy coding and we love the feeling of solving problems and implement new things for our users.
What is more valuable that being in the business that runs the world?
Tell me something that is critical to our society that doesn't use software?
Why do you code 24/7? I have a 40h work week and that is fine. Most of those hours are spent on meetings anyway.
I’m 23 and I don’t “code” 24/7 either. I just learn things that ARE definitely helpful to land better and better job every time
Coding is usually the easiest part and less time consuming of a développer job. Most of the time is usually spent on design discussions, planning, research. I usually code 1 to 2h per day, there are some times I even don’t code for days or a full week! It will obviously depends on your field of work but I’d say coding is 20% of the time of a dev work.
I have very bad synopsis basicly : all software which was written like years before even 5 years from right now is unmanageable mess , sure some exceptions happens ,but most times is a mess, how to solve this ? Well your company should start to work with outside contractors.
This video is only speculation!!!!
The fact is, a career in programming was not as viable 20 years ago... in 10 -15 years it will all even out because a career in software engineering will no longer be new.
it is an oversaturated market at the moment for sure (despite that business complains there is a tech shortage.... no they just want 5 years experience in their specific tech stack and don't want to pay for it)
I guess my end should have come 17 years ago.
Well, I guess they found the other 20% of the +40 missing from the GitHub poll here in the comments ;)
This is stupid, the industry is young...
You forgot to mention outsourcing!!!
That is ruining the Software Developer careera!
Corporations outsource their work to third world countries instead to pay in-house Developers.
Which adds to the stress that you will be outsourced tomorow, you never know.!!!
this is it right here.
outsourcing abroad.
You are drawing an inaccurate conclusion from the data. Just because, 15% of the developers are over 40 does not mean that developers are dropping off when they turn 40 which might be true if the total number of developers were static over the last few decades. On the contrary I think its more likely that the total base of developers is growing rapidly, and its not that developers are dropping before 40, but the people that start developing are 15 - 30.
At some point, younger people who hear better than you, see better than you, and who are still impressed by the next big programming paradigm, will begin to outperform you. And your manager won't be pulling any punches during your annual review. Or maybe that's just me. I don't know. lol
Younger developer are short temper and impatient when comes to developing
This is so delusional. Where's the productivity factor? Programming is one profession that older people tend to do better with time. This is because the industry is broken.
Thi video is misleading do you think 40 is old? At least say 50, this was BS video made by a kid who cant get a job because he can't stand a chance to experienced programmers, do you think companies gonna trust a kid to play with their code an databases?
Liked the video because of the comments it caused to be written. Not the actual content of the video!
no mention of open source?
Well said !! 👌🏼
This doesn't seem very accurate :?