I can’t imagine as many people find the Brownlow a relevant award that much now anyway. You hear a lot of these guys talk and they rate being rewarded by their club higher than any other honour anyway.
Good point with the defenders starting too poll votes, someone like James Sicily should be polling 20+ votes a year technically speaking if we are going by game impact
I like the tradition of the brownlow but it's never gonna be fair. There are teams like Carlton that play bottom 4 sides 3 years in a row, of course good players will poll well against crap sides (cripps polled 12 votes playing richmond & north twice) we don't need to change the brownlow, just stop viewing it as a measure of the best player in the competition because it's really not
You don’t need to change who gives out the Brownlow votes, the umpires giving it has always been a quirk of the game making the award more exciting because you don’t really know who is going to win. The public just needs to change what it values, you’re talking about making the award more the like MVP in basketball, when we already have the AFLPA and AFLCA MVP awards. We should value these awards more highly as the votes are cast by coaches and piers in the league, don’t change the Brownlow just change your values.
The list of players who haven't won the Brownlow is a lot better list then the players who have won the Brownlow some of the best players of all time have never won the Brownlow
Agree that Marcus Bontempelli is a gun. But Leigh Matthews is arguably the greatest player ever and he never won a Brownlow. I'm sure Bontempelli would take his premiership over Cripps' two Brownlows. Regarding Olly Wines winning. Agree that Olly Wines is nowhere near the calibre of Bontempelli, Cripps, Neale, Oliver, etc but my sources predicted him and Bontempelli to be up there. Regarding taking the Brownlow off the umpires. The Brownlow is the umpire's award. We should be putting more stock into the Leigh Matthews Medal and the Coaches Association coaches' votes and the players' votes rather than fundamentally altering the Brownlow
Agree for the most part. But the two awards you mention are just as subjective and biased and the overlap between all three is huge. For me, all Australian, All Australian captain, Norm Smith, Gary Myers and Coleman are the most significant and meaningful. The first two are (almost) completely independent of playing position/roll in the team and selected by “experts” who analyse the players more in depth, NS is based on just one game, the most significant game there is, by far. Which makes the award both more meaningful and significant. It is easier to vote the best player of one game than it is over a whole season. And ultimately, the GF is more significant than the rest of the season combined. That’s why Darcy Fort has a premiership medal and Big O doesn’t. The voting is similar as with the first two, it is biased in terms of position/roll but significantly less than the Brownlow and other two H&A MVP awards. Gary Myers similar as norm Smith with a touch of Brownlow and a coaches award. Voted on a game to game basis for the final series with coaches giving 1-5 votes. Significant because of similar reasons as the norm smith, not as meaningful because of more games and coaches usually give the same players the most votes that also dominate Brownlow and the other two. Still more meaningful than other types of players have won it. Or at least did fairly well in the voting. Coleman is both significant and meaningful. It’s the only award that 100% objective. But obviously also an award won by a limited type of players.
Why would you change it? You already have different types of best player/MVP awards you even mentioned. The Brownlow is the Brownlow, it is awarded by Umps on a game to game basis and thrives on sensationalism and controversy. You can change it, but then it would only be a Brownlow in name. When you look at the other awards, you have the same problem/biases. In other sports too btw. Individual awards in a teamsport don’t mean a hell lot.
You said the reason for this yourself: the Brownlow medal has lost credibility. There is a formula for winning the Brownlow now. Play midfield for a top 8 team that doesn't rotate much. Then pile up huge numbers. Bontempelli also is partly a victim of his own success. An outstanding, 3 vote game, for a lot of players. Is just another Marcus Bontempelli game. He has to play incredibly well to exceed the expectations placed on him before each match to earn the umpires attention.
I agree with most of your points here but you can’t honestly think that letting fans vote instead for the Brownlow would be a better idea? 😅 players like touk miller, Rowell etc would never receive a vote
I love the Bont, he's my favourite non-Hawk right now. But you're talking like he's the first ever great player not to win a Charlie. Lethal Leigh Matthews, thought of by many as the greatest VFL/AFL player in history, no Brownlow. It happens. And Bont still has at least 4-5 years to nab one....
AI Brownlow count - every statistic taken into account that shows the "Best & Fairest" The Bont doesn't win Charlie because he is a balanced player with a chip on each shoulder and he cannot help but to show a dislike of the Cripper, fair enough.... mmmmm
What a take, Cripps can have the umpires award, values need to change and we should be valuing the player and coach voted awards. They know who they plan for most, they know who’s the hardest to stop. Not the umps
Clearly he's not that dominant. Lots of players at the Dogs have better games than Bont across the year. The umpires have their criteria. Clearly when half of Bont's touches are fed to him by Libatore and Treloar they don't pay attention to him. Whoever wins the brownlow usually does not have other superstars around them.
@ everyone can agree cripps' votes were a complete joke and that he didn't deserve half of them. Every player has games where they should poll votes but they don't. It's just the way it is, but that doesn't take away from the fact the bont went missing in a lot of games this year, he would go missing for half a game at times. He wasn't a top player on the league
I can’t imagine as many people find the Brownlow a relevant award that much now anyway. You hear a lot of these guys talk and they rate being rewarded by their club higher than any other honour anyway.
Good point with the defenders starting too poll votes, someone like James Sicily should be polling 20+ votes a year technically speaking if we are going by game impact
I like the tradition of the brownlow but it's never gonna be fair. There are teams like Carlton that play bottom 4 sides 3 years in a row, of course good players will poll well against crap sides (cripps polled 12 votes playing richmond & north twice) we don't need to change the brownlow, just stop viewing it as a measure of the best player in the competition because it's really not
Simple answer why he has not won the Brownlow he plays for the western Bulldogs
The Brownlow has been largely irrelevant since the early 1990’s
He was training at West Coast and Chad Warner playing golf with the CEO Don Pyke 🤔
You don’t need to change who gives out the Brownlow votes, the umpires giving it has always been a quirk of the game making the award more exciting because you don’t really know who is going to win. The public just needs to change what it values, you’re talking about making the award more the like MVP in basketball, when we already have the AFLPA and AFLCA MVP awards. We should value these awards more highly as the votes are cast by coaches and piers in the league, don’t change the Brownlow just change your values.
I get you, but if the Brownlow is called the “highest individual honour” then the way that it is decided should be done in a better way
The Brownlow medal is the teachers pet award.
Wayne Carey. Premiership Captain and everything Bont has won, the duck has won.
No Brownlow.
Wines was nonsense, btw.
The list of players who haven't won the Brownlow is a lot better list then the players who have won the Brownlow some of the best players of all time have never won the Brownlow
Agree that Marcus Bontempelli is a gun. But Leigh Matthews is arguably the greatest player ever and he never won a Brownlow. I'm sure Bontempelli would take his premiership over Cripps' two Brownlows.
Regarding Olly Wines winning. Agree that Olly Wines is nowhere near the calibre of Bontempelli, Cripps, Neale, Oliver, etc but my sources predicted him and Bontempelli to be up there.
Regarding taking the Brownlow off the umpires. The Brownlow is the umpire's award. We should be putting more stock into the Leigh Matthews Medal and the Coaches Association coaches' votes and the players' votes rather than fundamentally altering the Brownlow
Matthews was also one of the greatest thugs ever, so the fairest component likely went against him a fair bit in the minds of the umpires.
Agree for the most part. But the two awards you mention are just as subjective and biased and the overlap between all three is huge.
For me, all Australian, All Australian captain, Norm Smith, Gary Myers and Coleman are the most significant and meaningful. The first two are (almost) completely independent of playing position/roll in the team and selected by “experts” who analyse the players more in depth, NS is based on just one game, the most significant game there is, by far. Which makes the award both more meaningful and significant. It is easier to vote the best player of one game than it is over a whole season. And ultimately, the GF is more significant than the rest of the season combined. That’s why Darcy Fort has a premiership medal and Big O doesn’t. The voting is similar as with the first two, it is biased in terms of position/roll but significantly less than the Brownlow and other two H&A MVP awards. Gary Myers similar as norm Smith with a touch of Brownlow and a coaches award. Voted on a game to game basis for the final series with coaches giving 1-5 votes. Significant because of similar reasons as the norm smith, not as meaningful because of more games and coaches usually give the same players the most votes that also dominate Brownlow and the other two. Still more meaningful than other types of players have won it. Or at least did fairly well in the voting.
Coleman is both significant and meaningful. It’s the only award that 100% objective. But obviously also an award won by a limited type of players.
I think they gave Lachie Neale the Brownlow in 2-23 was because he should have won it in 2022 but Cripps won his court case
Games played vs games won attribute to the overall score. Simple, dogs need more wins.
Why would you change it? You already have different types of best player/MVP awards you even mentioned. The Brownlow is the Brownlow, it is awarded by Umps on a game to game basis and thrives on sensationalism and controversy. You can change it, but then it would only be a Brownlow in name.
When you look at the other awards, you have the same problem/biases. In other sports too btw. Individual awards in a teamsport don’t mean a hell lot.
You said the reason for this yourself: the Brownlow medal has lost credibility.
There is a formula for winning the Brownlow now. Play midfield for a top 8 team that doesn't rotate much. Then pile up huge numbers.
Bontempelli also is partly a victim of his own success. An outstanding, 3 vote game, for a lot of players. Is just another Marcus Bontempelli game. He has to play incredibly well to exceed the expectations placed on him before each match to earn the umpires attention.
I agree with most of your points here but you can’t honestly think that letting fans vote instead for the Brownlow would be a better idea? 😅 players like touk miller, Rowell etc would never receive a vote
Even Speaking as a pies fan I still think that it’s ridiculous that he hasn’t won a Brownlow.Was ripped of in 2024.Go Bont for 2025
I love the Bont, he's my favourite non-Hawk right now. But you're talking like he's the first ever great player not to win a Charlie. Lethal Leigh Matthews, thought of by many as the greatest VFL/AFL player in history, no Brownlow. It happens. And Bont still has at least 4-5 years to nab one....
I didn’t even know who wines Was
AI Brownlow count - every statistic taken into account that shows the "Best & Fairest" The Bont doesn't win Charlie because he is a balanced player with a chip on each shoulder and he cannot help but to show a dislike of the Cripper, fair enough.... mmmmm
What a take, Cripps can have the umpires award, values need to change and we should be valuing the player and coach voted awards. They know who they plan for most, they know who’s the hardest to stop. Not the umps
It's a fact of life and sport,Bartlett, Matthews,Carey etc would be in a lot of people's all time top 10 & never won charlie
Clearly he's not that dominant. Lots of players at the Dogs have better games than Bont across the year. The umpires have their criteria. Clearly when half of Bont's touches are fed to him by Libatore and Treloar they don't pay attention to him. Whoever wins the brownlow usually does not have other superstars around them.
Absolute clown take
Bont was terrible last year, there is no way he should of even been in the conversation in 2024
32 disposals and 3 goals is a no vote game for him, but Cripps can get 3 with 20 touches no impact
@ everyone can agree cripps' votes were a complete joke and that he didn't deserve half of them. Every player has games where they should poll votes but they don't. It's just the way it is, but that doesn't take away from the fact the bont went missing in a lot of games this year, he would go missing for half a game at times. He wasn't a top player on the league