I’m a huge Zelda fan and if we get a third game just like the last two with a story told in the past, bad dungeons, and no real items I think I’m gonna sit it out. I just haven’t been all that into the last two.
Sorry i didn't buy a zelda game to build whacky ass gokarts in a medieval world. Sorry I didn't buy a zelda game to skip exploring up a cool mountain to be able to just slip through the wall. It's not rewarding at all. Totk Ganondorf was badass, sorry we weren't around to see it. Instead we are there to collect screen clips of the past that has nothing to do with Botw
It's like as if they discovered programmable shaders and normalmaps with botw. They wanted to have complete openness for players to be able to go to ganon directly. In that regard they succeeded, but not every f-ing player is a speedrunner, wanting to do that. Same true for difficulty. You can prepare for areas with more buffed versions of enemy types. But since there is no XP aside from getting better with the mechanics, if you don't feel inclined to get better or don't enjoy the special abilities at all, you're kind of screwed. The story makes it pointless to endure any suffering, as well as breakable weapons do. As a result. Link feels like an athlet you don't wanna be, an empty, voiceless shell doing zelda's busy work to an unsatisfying end. Totk, albeit quite a feat they pulled off, just fills the gaps a little, to make it look less of a fleemarket spree you're tossed into. Technicalities hinder the whole picture to come together. When graphics are lacking this much, there is little to keep someone invested. The art direction argument falls apart when you get a glimpse at what they were trying to achieve. Of course the open world theme has become an old shoe by now, but still, if they could manage to combine open and linear in a meaningful way, it could work. But there is always a cost to that, something the publisher/dev would need to include in their set out vision. The elements system is very cool, but gets old quickly. As well as having to change clothes to adapt to different climates. It's just not fun. And cooking doesn't help. Botw and Totk feel both like busy work. Nothing i particularily am searching in my personal sparetime, no thanks.
Have you played Ys VIII: Lacromosa of Dana? To me, it felt like BotW's story in the traditional Zelda format, though with more focus on action than puzzles, and it originally came out about a year before BotW. You even get parts of the story revealed to you via flashbacks, but you control a character in those flashbacks and get to explore its equivalent of Old Hyrule and form bonds with the people therein and explore the origins of the prophecy that you're trying to avert.
NOW THIS WOULD'VE BEEN AWESOME! Totally a missed opportunity. Could've brought back the Tears from Twilight princess for Totk in those segments too. Make us train with the Zonai sages after collecting like 10 tears in the spirit world.
@@HoboWithAShotgun Yeah, I mean, it's not like it's a super successful game that iterated on an already successful formula and brought Ys a ton of mainstream appeal or anything.
@@lnsflare1 I bought it and hated it lol. If you like it that's fine, but I hate the arcade like combat. It has no weight behind it. And I can't stand how people dress in animes lol
@@HoboWithAShotgun That's more of a you thing than an issue with the game itself. Ys has had arcadey combat in all its installations, and does it pretty damn well. Regarding the fashion, that's definitely a matter of personal taste, and I can even somewhat agree, but it has nothing to do with my original post.
I’m almost 40 years old, and I’ve grown up with the Zelda series. My first game was the NES original when I was far too young to know what to do, so I’d walk around Hyrule just killing enemies for hours. This is a great video and echoes my thoughts on the series direction. My favourite games are Ocarina, Twilight, Windwaker and A link to the past. They’re memorable and relatable because of the dungeons. When I complete one of those games, I feel like I’ve been on a journey. An adventure. I feel immersed! Now, I’ve spent 400+ hours on each of BOTW and TOTK, and I LOVED the open world Hyrule. It was SO much fun exploring. But I badly missed the traditional dungeons. Places I could discover and enter. Spend an hour or 2 exploring a labyrinth like temple or structure, unlocking doors to venture further as I discover secrets. The dungeons themes and experiences are memorable. There’s a reason why people make Top 10 lists of dungeons and music. BOTW and TOTK is designed to appease the short attention span Tik Tok generation. Small singular puzzles in 150 shrines that can be done in short bursts. 4 divine beasts that are small and have a single puzzle to sold. Void of any enemies or distractions. No themes or music. They’re boring copy and paste! I hope the next Zelda gives us the same style open world and exploration of the new games, but buries 8-12 traditional style dungeons in the map for us to discover. PROPER dungeons. Not like what we saw in TOTK
This is a 7 month old video but I just finished playing botw and totk. They were my first zelda games, I have never been a nintendo fan. The main problem I find with these 2 is the developers insistance on it being completely non-linear. Because you can do the main quest in any order you want they are all equal in difficulty and skill required. Meaning that there is no ability in the game that you have to earn to fight a specific enemy. That translates to them all being equally easy after you master basic combat ( which is not hard, about 2 hours of gameplay and you should be fine even if you have never played another game in your life). The world also seems unchaning and there is nothing that makes you feel like you need to progress. You can literally run around chasing korok seeds for 200 hours and come back like oh, was there a princess that I need to save or something? Lastly the items breaking is simply despicable. Haven't played the older games as I said in the start so I don't mind them being "forgetable" but even if I find a cool sword that I like its just gonna break after a fight with a couple mobs. Also wtf could they not just make the Master Sword actually unbreakable and not this recharging nonsense? All in all I enjoyed the games, but they focused too much on this open world thing being the main selling point. Not everyone wants to spend 300 on a completely uncurated experience. Im not that hardcore of a fan so Im not looking for an excuse to spend an entire year on a zelda game.
Look, I Love COLLECTING WEAPONS AND ARMOR AND ITEMS! I HATE when Weapons and Shields Break and you can't even Repair them, you can't Store any Items or Weapons in a Storage Container, you don't even learn Skills to maintain the Weapons and Shields, your Personal Storage is Limited, even though there are More Items or Clothing than there is Storage Space, I hate that Stamina is USED FOR EVERYTHING! I hate it when Climbing, Swimming, Gliding, and Sprinting! You can't Swim or Dive in Zelda anymore! I Fucking HATE IT! No, Fuck the "Skill Issue" Crap! WE ARE LIMITED IN AN OPEN WORLD ZELDA GAME WHERE THE POSSIBILITIES SHOULD HAVE BEEN LIMITLESS! But we are Forced to Deal with these Limitations because Bullshit Reason, That's how they wanted it, and Other Retarded things. I Wanted to See Hyrule and Explore every Nook and Cranny, Dive into the Depths of the Ocean and Lakes, Delve into Caves and Grottos, Discover the Mysteries of Dungeons, Obtain Useful Items, Weapons, and Tools, but I can't because NONE OF THESE ARE POSSIBLE OR EXIST! BotW is NOT a Zelda Game, its a Bad Knock Off, Wannabe Off Brand Elder Scrolls, that has Bad Mechanics, Poor Weapon and Shield Durability, No Skills, No Dungeons or Caves, No Exploring Deep Water Area, Zelda Skin Rip Off!!
I 100% agree with you. Traditional formula is better. Or at least, they should adjust what they’re doing now. I’ve loved Zelda games since I was a child and I’ve been let down enough withe the last two.
I wanted to write down my initial reactions as I went along, so I apologize if this comment gets too long. Like your video, this will be a bit unscripted and rant-like, so I apologize in advance. I'll leave timestamps as to where I am (addressing what was said BEFORE the timestamps, not AFTER). 0:55 I 100% agree. This is something I've said about BotW for years now: it's a good game, but it's NOT Zelda. If it had nothing to do with the Zelda IP, I'd probably think it was a cool new series. But my problem with it always stemmed from the fact that it IS supposedly a Zelda game, despite it not actually playing or feeling like a Zelda game at all. Because of that, it's my least favorite Zelda game. Even The Adventure of Link--notorious for being a black sheep in the series--feels more like Zelda than BotW. 2:31 I will add that it WAS nice to have a world that opens up as you obtain items. It lets the later portions of the world have a higher difficulty, and adds to that sense of exploration. Plus, some people site the open world as the reason why the overworld had no music (because "it would get repetitive after hours of exploration"), which is a dumb take, but still. That said, I have no problem with the world being more open than traditional Zelda games. I just want it to incorporate the elements I just specified, which theoretically *should* be possible. And for all I know, that's where you're going with this. But if not, I just thought I'd add that. 3:47 Well, Wind Waker directly mentions the plot of OoT, Phantom Hourglass is a sequel to WW, and Spirit Tracks directly mentions PH, so there *is* at least a *bit* of a timeline there that's undeniable. However, I get what you're saying. Other than some games whose stories are undeniably connected, it's easier (and more fun) to think of Zelda games as being a legend that's retold differently each game rather than an interconnected storyline of rebirth. I, myself, have always been invested in the timeline. But even *I* get that it's a convoluted mess to which there is *no* perfect solution. And TotK just made it worse with its portrayal of Ganondorf. Seriously, if no male Gerudo have been born since Ganondorf was sealed under the castle, then is the founding of Hyrule *after* the major timeline, or does BotW occur earlier in the timeline than people thought? Plus, the geography of Hyrule changes constantly. Yet in the era of founding, it's WAY too similar to BotW's world! Did Hyrule itself revert back to its original form after years of changing?! And where exactly is the Triforce? You'd think if Zelda had it, it would grant her wish to revert Ganon's destruction of Hyrule, but nope. Her power clearly doesn't do that despite the fact that the Triforce has been shown to be able to raise the dead in ALttP! It's a mess to try to work out. So much simpler to think they aren't typically connected. 9:43 In case you don't get to this. Beyond themes and bosses, dungeons should have *items,* a *labyrinth-like layout,* and *puzzles.* All three things that even TotK misses the mark with. Because all the "puzzles" in TotK's dungeons could be solved in multiple ways instead of having you rack your brain for the single correct solution. The layouts were better than the Divine Beasts, but I found you could still make flying machines and just skip all the wandering around to get to wherever you needed to be. And, unless you count the Sages, there were still no dungeon items. Thus, although TotK was a baby step in the right direction, they still weren't dungeons. Because real Zelda dungeons *are* linear, putting restrictions on where you can go and what you can do. Because a puzzle-filled maze *should* restrict you like that. But that's against everything that BotW and TotK stand for. So the "dungeons" in those two games are open, thus not really feeling like Zelda dungeons at all. 12:13 Again, you're probably about to touch on this. But compare ALttP's final battle, where you could fall down a hole and have to restart from the beginning no matter how far you were in the fight, to BotW's final battle. One keeps you on your toes, and there *are* consequences for if you mess up. The other has *no* consequences whatsoever. Compare Demise from SS, which was hard to hit and caused massive damage, to TotK's final fight. One eats away at your potions. The other is literally just skydiving onto the back of a dragon. 15:14 Oh, *I'm* gonna talk about the Korok seeds! But first, again: the Shrines could be solved in a variety of ways. Therefore, once again, the "puzzles" or "labyrinth" aspect were either missing or not as engaging as mini dungeons from other Zelda games. Remember the Bottom of the Well from OoT? Ikana Castle from MM? Royal Crypt from MC? *Those* are mini dungeons done right. Shrines are just "enter, solve the one puzzle or beat the one enemy however you choose, reward." It's short, repetitive, and uninteresting. Now, as for Koroks. Lengthy collection quests are no strangers to the Zelda series. However, when comparing the Korok quest to the Gold Skulltula quest in OoT or the maiamai quest in ALBW, it's just sad. Not only are there WAY too many Koroks, but the rewards suck. In OoT, you could be rewarded for finding Skulltulas with a bigger wallet or a Piece of Heart. In ALBW, you would be rewarded for finding maiamais by having your items upgraded to more powerful versions. In BotW, you're rewarded for gathering Korok seeds by...increasing your carrying capacity and getting some useless poop. Wow. What a reward. Totally worth getting *some,* but it doesn't encourage me to gather *all* Korok seeds. It really is a failure of a collection quest, simply because the reward system isn't actually all that rewarding. 18:09 The Giant's Knife in OoT handles the temporary item durability thing really well. It was a more powerful weapon than your normal Master Sword, but it broke after so long of use and then you'd have to rely on your Master Sword again. However, once again, there was a lengthy sidequest that allowed you to get an unbreakable version of that item. 20:17 I'm gonna say something here you probably won't agree with. The reason why BotW and TotK's story delivery sucks...is because they're non-linear games. If you have a game where you can go wherever and do whatever at ANY time, then the story needs to be open to follow you as opposed to you following the story. Thus, instead of having a gradually progressing story, we have to experience the story in disconnected fragments, most of which occurring via memories. This leads to garbage storytelling. For example, do you remember the Tetra reveal in WW? The reason that worked is because it was revealed at a key point in the story AFTER experiencing a large portion of the game. In TotK, they try a similar plot twist with the Light Dragon. However, just getting ONE memory out of order ruins everything. And heaven help if you do the memories before the dungeons, because you'll see through the Phantom Zelda "plot twist" super easily. The only way a plot twist, or even a progressing storyline, can work is if it's told in sequence rather than in fragments. Thus, to have a good story, you *cannot* experience any story parts out of order. In other words, the story *has* to be linear. This begs the question. Can we have a game where the world is open but the story is linear? I think it may be possible, but it certainly wouldn't be easy. 28:51 A Link Between Worlds was an open world traditional Zelda game. You could do any dungeon in any order, but they were still dungeons. There were still items. There was still overworld music. It was still Zelda. FINAL THOUGHTS: I agree with several of your points, but there is one I would personally add: music. BotW and TotK have some pretty good music, but what bothers me is specifically the lack of overworld music. I don't like spending hours upon hours listening to broken piano notes. I miss when Zelda had adventure songs. A lot of people argue that music wouldn't have worked in BotW's world, but I'd say that it would have if they had a good composer. It didn't need to be epic or bombastic. They could've had something slow and somber. But give it a melody for Hylia's sake. As for whether or not that melody would get repetitive, again, that depends on the skill of the composer. Ocarina of Time has an overworld theme with a lot of variations throughout the song, making it last longer before it loops back to the beginning. BotW could've done something similar, where the overworld theme is like 20 minutes of variations before looping back to the beginning of the song. Each area could've had its own song (Akkala, Hyrule Field, Faron Woods, etc.) like what Skyward Sword did. It didn't HAVE to be epic or repetitive. If the composer was good enough, music would've worked well in BotW's world. But instead we got silence. I don't care what argument people make about the MEANING of the silence, it won't change the fact that it's boring and that they COULD have done better. But that's just me. Good video. And thanks for addressing these points. More Zelda fans need to call out Aonuma's BS regarding classic Zelda. BotW took out the very formula that attracted fans to the Zelda series in the first place. Of course people want it back! It needed variation so that it wasn't so stale, not to be completely eliminated! It's like taking a sick dog to the vet, then they just kill the dog rather than help make it better. Then they give you a *new* dog and don't understand why you're sad that your old dog was killed. The first dog was *sick* and needed to be made *better,* not killed! We didn't ask for a new dog. We liked ours just fine! But I'm afraid that, since Aonuma doesn't understand that, we'll never see the old formula return again. Zelda as we knew it is dead. And BotW/TotK is the future of the series. Count me out.
I completely agree with the sentiment of "BotW/TotK aren't proper Zelda games". However, I do appreciate them as part of the series: Zelda has always been a place to experiment. The gameplay and the formula _should_ change a bit every time. I just hope that they will return to a more traditional Zelda next. It was a fun ride, but there are _enough_ true open world games out there. Zelda has always been about exploration; but I want the series to focus on dungeons again. I doubt there will be a third part to the current Hyrule; that ending felt _very_ final. My hope and expectation is that they are planning for a mid-timeline, more formula-adjacent game next. It's a strong hope, and a dwindling expectation. I miss bottles... Edit to add my little conspiracy theory: They won't make a formula Zelda for the switch, so fans "have to" pay for the online subscription to endlessly replay Ocarina.
Another complaint: Why are the quests so boring? I am still mad about the cricket guy. And they seriously repeated that bs in the sequel??? Don't end the quest at f*cking 10, make me fetch 500 crickets incrementally, while letting me see into the life and personal development of these side characters. I said before that Zelda games have always involved and rewarded exploration. But with these games, I feel like they sidelined the main appeal of the series (dungeons), to put more focus on exploration and quests. And then they made exploration *less rewarding,* and quests *less involved and interesting.* I _genuinely liked_ the biggoron sword thing.
Of the same feeling, i think these zelda games are fine as games. I would condede to calling these even spin offs. But as true zelda games they miss the mark on everything. I am perfectly fine with openworld. As i didnt like the world design of SS being way to restricted. Just give us higher quality dungeons. Unique non breakable items as rewards for exploration / bosses or dungeon rewards. And let us be in the story. Not all flashbacks.
I really wish they had made these games, without the Zelda IP, cause I would've thoroughly enjoyed them more knowing I didn't have to compare them to objectively better games. Edit: I think what would have made BOTW and TOTK significantly better is if they took example from Undertale in how to end your games. I hated so much that when you free all the divine beasts your prize is... Making the final fight easier? Like yay.... no one wanted that. Instead they should've done 2 endings or even 4 for if you free the divine beasts or not, be more intimate with the choices that are made. If they want an open world so badly, I think this would tremendously popularize their games even extending past hardcore Zelda fans. People love the small details that can change a games ending. Idk I'm drunk so that probably makes no sense lmao.
@@LucianeTorres-vc9oi older zelda games are not obsolete. If they were, they would not be such a cultural phenomenon that they still are today. You can go into any convention hall, or "nerd" store and see Tshirts, jewelry of heart containers and the pot gems. Keychains of various items and characters. Ect Meanwhile, i rarely see any botw merch. I saw maybe a few items. But thats it. And this is within the last few years So no, your observation is false
I'm going to talk about 2 things that I actually disagree with this video 1. This guy said the master sword is done slightly better in TotK, I completely disagree as I feel like the master sword was insulted in TotK, Nintendo drops a huge story point about the SWORD BEING BROKEN IN HALF, and after the great sky island the sword is never talked about again until the end. Plus it's even easier to get the master sword than it was in BotW, all you do it get 20 shrines, get on Zelda's head and pull the damn sword out, I literally got the sword before I entered any dungeons 2. TotK's story is not good, and I don't mean in the format it's given to us I'm talking about the story itself, Ganondorf is not a fully developed character but instead just acts evil just because. At least WW and TP gave him some character and backstory, Zelda's dragon transformation felt unearned and I actually couldn't contain my laughter when watching her eat a rock and transform. There's almost no hinting or foreshadowing except for 1 memory. Plus in all the other memories she doesn't even do anything but watch what happens and drink tea with Sonia. As someone who's hoping to become author by next year, I can almost confidentially say that TotK's story is poorly written. If anything I think this game's story should've been about the master sword and about repairing it back into the unbreakable Blade of Evil's Bane. I'm sorry but calling it the sword that seals the darkness sounds like a fourth grader came up with that name
Just why did it have to be the bad ones. Who looks at minecraft and says, "I really like how the weapons break constantly, I wish that happened in more games" Or more importantly, when was the last time you looked at a game and said, "man this game is too easy, I wish my weapons would break constantly, that would add some difficulty"
@@FireRED-c8u I mean, we've both spent our entire adult lives, but for him that's like 40 years, for me that's 4. So of course my games are significantly worse than games made by an entire experienced team with a development time of my entire career. That doesn't mean the games are perfect, nor does it mean that I can't call out the game for it's flaws the fundamentally ruin the experience. In fact, by doing so I'm able to make sure I don't commit the same flaws. If I see "oh, your weapons breaking mid combat makes combat worse," or "being forced to spend more money than your wallets max amount for story progression ruins the pacing" then if I'm ever tempted to do the same thing, I won't. Also, when he developed wind waker, I was negative years old. I think the game came out when I was 2 months old, or around that timr
@@FireRED-c8u Say all you want. The fact of what hioman said and i are there. Aonuma is following trends, and he wants the easy way to make games. Wind waker was not well received for the childish art style, not for the zelda formula.
This was an excellent analysis. Zelda needs to get back to dungeons, items, and more player-involved stories. And I've always considered open world and linear as sides of two different coins, the way I define the terms.
Oh, you mean those same low quality Zelda games like skyward sword and twilight princess? No, thanks. Tears of the Kingdom is the highest quality Zelda game we ever had since Majora’s mask.
@@DanielMazahrehAh yes low quality is having a well written story, excellent dungeon design and fun gameplay. Low quality isn't making a boring open world game with copy pasted content, terrible writing and easy boss fights. I had more trouble with the first Girahim fight than I did any of the Blights. That's embarrassing
On the topic of the final boss: It's deliberate that the last phase of canon in BOTW and TOTK is more cinematic and not challenging, but I hate that. It should be the other way around, start with the easy phases and end with the most difficult. That way the win actually feels epic and earned.
That's not really unique to Zelda, tbh. I believe the usual term is "Catharsis". I've seen a game do the reverse, in a way (scripted loss, before you get the boost that lets you fight normally), and it was... Very cinematic and fun until you have to replay it because you lost on the first try. I think that's a big reason to stick to them being final phase. What makes it feel epic and earned is generally supposed to be getting to that phase. I think what makes them feel like they fall flat, really, is that the fights prior... TotK Ganondorf was cool and all, but most of the phases were repetitive.
Dude. This is one of the best videos about the new Zelda games I have seen. I recently wrote a full review of BOTW because I needed to get my frustration out and literally everything you said in your video was what I wrote about. Unreal. Thank you so much for thinking critically and reminding so many of us why we fell in love with this franchise in the first place. I don't want to take away anyones fun but damnit, I feel like there are so many gamers still in the honeymoon phase with the 2 new entries or just simply incapable of putting together any rational opinions of their own. Are we just going to continue to be spoon fed shallow hand-holdy games like these? I want some art in my games. Oh one last thing with regards to the 4 points you opened the video with. You forgot to mention music. To me this might carry more weight than any other element. Where the hell were the themes like Lost Woods, Midna's theme, Dragon Roost Island, Clock Town - literally anything from the previous 3D Zelda entires - pick your favourite.. Strong music that elevates the game and gives each area its own atmosphere. Completely absent in recent games.
Yes i did leave out music. Which i agree is a key component. Another comment said the same. I left it out on purpose because while i agree that the music is lack luster in both games minus a few tracks, i wanted to focus more on the gameplay itself.
My point to aonuma and this is me even liking some of the subpar “restrictive “ games. Aonuma it was your directing that made them that way. Read his other interviews back then. He was concerned with making it easier and less likely to get stuck. This tells me that the corporate culture and the marketing tell the game devs at Nintendo want to do. Now he is all locked in on open air. Why because after the Wiiu fail Nintendo needed to get hardcore gamers back and this gave them LOADS of money. The other games you had freedom to complete at least oot(adult dungeons in almost any order). Windwaker had a freedom point after the second dungeon but really after 2nd forsaken fortress and 2nd hyrule castle visit. After you get the master sword in TP is a freedom point. You can't complete everything but you can explore and go oh I can do this, this or this, I need something to go overhere and do this. Even the portable have freedom points. It was Skyward Sword that was really linear.
"Why do you want to go back to a type of game where you're more limited or more restricted in the types of things or ways you can Play?" Sure you get more Freedom but here's the huge problem with it THERE IS NOTHING TO EXPLORE FOR! The Depths and Skyward Islands in TOTK is an amazing idea but I fucked hated how Empty they are. The Technology of the Zonai is an amazing idea but in my opinion it is poorly executed. I Love BOTW and TOTK but I won't ever defend them because these two games have the same huge issue where everything feels EMPTY!
Nintendo is good at listening to feedback but not great at knowing what to do with it. WW got backlash so they thought reimagining OoT was what we wanted. After SS most people were tired of the formula so they threw away everything. I hope the next game is open world with big linear dungeons.
Listen. They will hear the complaints about story and make the next game's story be something like Souls where everything will be written in items and etc. Or they will straight up put way too much expositive text in random dialogue, or maybe, even take story out entirely lol
I love OOT rom hacks!! If you want an absolutely infuriatingly hard one, try nimpize's adventure lol. I straight up don't think I'd be able to get thru it without save states😅
I agree that totk is rather disappointing and I think I had expectations for this to be a more eloquent video so I won't go into it but this feels to be a very...emotionally charged rant that I think makes some very good points, but also spends a lot of the video reiterating and reemphasizing those points while many other very good criticisms are still available for notice
@@onlygoodgamesofficialGonna disagree man. I love Breath of the Wild despite its flaws. Totk just feels like a DLC to that. A large Elden Ring style DLC, but DLC nonetheless
special items would work in BOTW, aonuma probably dont think so. But it very much would. The point of the items are that they seemed to be designed for someone for a purpose...They are magical items that overpowers any normal items in the world. They could of given us them and let us play wit enemy weapons.
i fully agree. totk and botw are good games if you ignore the title, but theyre miles behind the rest of the franchise and it's not even close. They simply try to compensate the lack of og zelda essence with mechanics, which, even if they are super sophisticated, are used so much throughout the game that they get tiring. it's like they took the work that brought em here and dumped it as if it was a used cloth
Im really glad people are talking about this now. I love zelda but i did not like botw at all, I didnt even buy totk. The only new zelda games i like are Links Awakening, Age of Calamity, and Skyward Sword HD. I felt so gaslit by everyone saying its the best game ever and winning game of the year. 😂
I agree with the items thing. But I think they're getting closer with all the Zonai abilities and sages in TotK. It's not perfect, but I think it's heading in that direction. Same with the dungeons and story, they're taking steps forward but it's a work in progress. I don't even touch BotW anymore. Edit: To be fair, with the sages it's pretty much copy paste in every game. All the sages in OoT are like "we're your friends and the destiny of Hyrule and Hero of TIme" then Majora had even less with the 4 giants, Twilight Princess has the light spirits you meet like once, Skyward Sword has the dragons I guess? And the 2d Zelda's you usually just get the thing and leave. It's never been that complex.
Having to go help 7 sages in each ( most) game isn't the issue. Oot each sage had different issues. Different dialogue. And different cutscenes. Even in the end when they are all in that spirit realm. They were varied. TotK it was literally copy paste dialogue. And most of the cutscenes were the same as well.
Just stumbled upon this video and everything here is so true! These two games are Zelda games in name only, take the names of locations and characters out and you got a generic open world game. They’re all spectacle no substance, like Totk for example, they show us in trailers the sky islands, an interesting story, ganondorf as a character, and once the games comes out dungeons and the depths. All of these are so cool in concept but in reality, the sky and depths are copy pasted with little to nothing to do, the story is once again told in memories that add up to a sh*t story, the dungeons are literally just the ones from Botw except named after an element, and Ganondorf literally has no motivation to be evil except just because. And we’re not even allowed 2D Zelda, Echoes of Wisdom seems to be an entire game based on auto build from Totk and you can play as Zelda, which would’ve been cool, but only after assuring us that the traditional formula lives on, even if only in 2D. Here’s hoping the next Zelda game isn’t the exact same as Botw and Totk but instead incorporates elements to make it an actual Zelda game, otherwise I think I’m done with Zelda
At this point, I see that us fans love the series more than Nintendo. Nintendo is tired and they are killing the series. I didn’t buy BOTW or TOTK. I noticed something is wrong. I can’t support Zelda anymore. They don’t hear us fans. They want to destroy the series and dumb it down even more. It’s so sad they are killing it.. we need to stop buying at this point. This really bad..
If there was a big untapped market for a traditional Zelda like adventure game Nintendo wasn't reaching a different company would make one.. it should speak volumes to everyone complaining that nobody has. Just saying.
The Zelda Movie should have been made as an Anime Film, NOT LIVE ACTION because it just looks So Weird Right Now, Especially after Super Mario's 3D Animated Film was a Big Success. But, Notice a Trend? They Made Mario before Zelda back when Arcades were Popular, then the Super Mario Games on the NES, then Zelda and its 13 Episode Show comes along AFTER MARIO, then we had tye Super Mario Super Show for the SNES Mario Games and then Zelda's Game, then a Super Mario Movie, but NO Zelda until the N64, THEN we have the New 3D Super Mario Bros. Movie, and Now we are getting a Zelda Movie. The Trend is that Nintendo Treats Mario as the Golden Child, while Zelda is the Second Middle Child and Other Franchises are pretty much the Unwanted Children of Nintendo. They Treat ALL OTHER Franchises with Less Respect and would rather Kill them Off because Mario makes them the Most Money and is the Most Whored Out Franchise over every other Franchise to this Day.
@@ItatsuMagnatsa i definitly agree. Donkey Kong needs a damn DK54 treatment again, same with StarFox. what pisses me off is Black Myth Wukong is such a great game and it is somewhat linear and restricted. bringing back badass unlockable items in dungeons and exploring hyrule with linear longer dungeons is needed. it amazes me how the whole point of totk is giving players basically a "i can skip this whole area and puzzle because i have whacky tools at my desposal"...idk it was fun but then as u get far its disappointing, Ganon was awesome yet the story felt too far apart because the sandbox was too stretched out. the depths was such a damn let down as well. copy and paste is abundant down there!
@@paulypipes3082 oh don't get me Started on Zelda's and Ganondorf's Dragon Forms. THOSE were let downs. Nothing says Medieval Western/European like Flying Noodles in the Sky! Did you know that if you Look at all the Dragons in Zelda, the Asian Dragon Designs outnumber the more Culturally Correct Medieval Western/European Dragon Designs? Look at Skyward Sword, there are 3 Asian Dragon Gods, look at BotW/TotK, you have 5 Asian Dragons and 2 of them are the 2 Most Prominent Characters in the Zelda Series, Zelda and Ganondorf. That right there is 8 Asian Dragons right off the Bat. Then there is Volagia from Zelda 2 and Volvagia from OoT, they are described as Different from each other, so that makes it 10 Asian Dragons right there.... in a Prominently Medieval Western/European World....
I was letting you cook and I was eating it up.. then you said that the Twilight Princess 1v1 against Ganondorf was "pretty shitty" and you completely lost me.
On a coolness factor its awesome. But just as the newer games the final phase was the easiest out of the other phases. You just wait till he charges. Push him back and repeat 3 times till you get the prompt to finish him. Thats it. Ww he learned your fighting style so you had to work with zelda to won. Which didnt always work. And was at least interesting SS he would rush you as you charged so you had to play the right way or he could 1 shot you. So while the concept was easy, execution was a bit tricky Same with OOT. When you dont have the big goron sword, hes hard to fight with no sword. Get good at throwing bombs or bow. Lol Tp i just wished he did a bit more to feel like a sword clash. A few more mechanics is all. The few he does are easily avoided
BoTW and TotK 100% miss the mark for me. Like you said, beautiful, great games, but not good zelda games. The "dungeons" are far too short and easy. I miss getting stuck in a dungeon, spending hours (if not days, looking at you OoT Water Temple) trying to figure out the solution, not less than 30 minutes.
The main problem with Tears of the Kingdom and BOTW is the lack of item progressions. We can't have traditional dungeons without a key item because dungeons in the past we're designed with a specific item in mind each times and even A Link between worlds masterfully included a lots of alternative ways to complete a dungeon with the items renting system. Having god-like powers right at the beggining of the game hurt so much the progression and the logic of the game. You don't feel like you're evolving at all and the main ''quest'' is like a chore to complete instead of an adventure. That is a big problem. Without items progression ,they're no progression at all. One fun way they can include both is needing a specific item in order to progress through the next dungeon BUT they can do it with an open-minded way : you need to work for it. Or having a specific key in order to unlock the dungeon like in Skyward Sword but its fragmented and you have quests in the open world related to it even mini-dungeons. The Open world should be a playground, not a huge map of nothingness with god awful side-quests that gives nothing of value to the player than wasting your time.
I disagree, I don't think the player needs item progression for a traditional dungeon. BOTW and ToTK already proved that with the shrines. The shrines are small proper dungeons, they have linear progression and still limit what the player can do without the need of an item. You just have to make them longer, and give them a proper theme/aesthetic. (Get rid of the Zonai stuff) I think LOZ fans a tendency to overrate the dungeon items. Most of them (with a few exceptions), the player only uses them for half a dungeon, and for the rest the game they don't get much use outside their respective dungeon, they just sit in the player's inventory.
I think a traditional Zelda games were not selling, tbh people who are clamoring for traditional Zelda game is very little unlike the 30 million copies BOTW sold, if they kept making traditional ones, Zelda would have gone into oblivion.
I'll argue that point as the original zelda was very popular to start the series. Oot blew it up. As did tp. Ww only became a cult classic years later. Either way, the series was in the public eye and well known with an already large fanbase. Breath and tears i mever hear anyone outside of youtube talk about them. Most cosplays at conventions are link from tp or oot. Any shirts purchased are just pf the series as a whole. (Only seen 1 breath one which was a fanmade art shirt) and jewelry i see always heart containers and the oot gems. And ofc triforce / sword and shield. The most i see of breath out in the real world are phone cases that look like the sheikah slate
I mean. When moving backwards is moving forward than yes. Botw and totk are piss poor games for many reasons. The classic zeldas are remembered fondly for a reason
@@Goosewitdajuice317 have you actually played BotW & TotK? i have hundreds of hours on both of them, and i can testify they are not "piss poor" games. Care to state your "many reasons". sir?
@@H-TownGamer The stories in each game aren't lackluster. There are just design issues in how they told them. The items are still there, they're just implemented in a different way.
I will start saying I LOVED Botw. And while it definitely doesn't beat Oot or AlttP. It's still in my top 5 Zelda games. And I really disliked Skyward Sword on its release. Botw definitely feels like a Zelda game reimagined with the only thing I feel it lacked were the dungeons as most agree. But then Totk came and it was mostly a huge disappointment. Besides the bosses which were definitely a step up from Botw (I loved the Molgera callback with Colgera), I would argue the dungeons themselves are worse. Music was worse, exploration was worse, and about everything I disliked about botw they doubled down on it and even ruined some of its original stuff. The recent information is really concerning because I always thought Botw was going to be a "one thing reimagination". Totk lazily copies over its structure with little novelty. Which DOES not work in reiteration. All the points you mentioned here like the items I forgave it in botw because it was a massive world and their real first try of it.But seeing the direction they are going with totk it's just baffling and very concerning they won't ever really understand what made the older games timeless.
Been replaying twilight princess after years and just realised how much the new games are lacking. And a big thing that the new 2 games are also lacking is an ARC. Almost all characters in both games are the same in the end as they were before. Besides a copy paste arc that they are now awakened sages or something.
I agree. For me new zelda's should have at least 8 different, long dungeons to compensate their size. Or I will even go further: just make new zelda with no hyrule field, and 25 dungeons! :D
@@devilrider39000000 the biggest problems with skyward sword are motion controls, flying parts, too much hand holding, atmosphere, aesthetics, some plot parts and characters. Not dungeons like structure. :) Actually everything related to dungeons would be great in this game, if not the rest.
@kordianronnberg9090 For me everything u said including the dungeons were the problem. The game was too dungeon heavy. It's literally dungeon dungeon dungeon. Even the outside areas are just linear paths meant to funnel the player from dungeon to dungeon, making them outdoor extensions of the dungeons.
This is just like Blizzards classic wow "you think you do but you dont". game developers seem to get this god complex thinking they know best when they dont. the phrase "the customer is always right" has never been more true
If Mario became a gta game where he is robbing cars is that a different Mario game or is that not Mario? At a certain point yes it does lose its identity. Now BOTW and TOK may completely not lost all of Zelda it lost like 90% which is so much he’s right that’s it’s basically not Zelda at this point in time.
@@H-TownGamer i feel your point with the mario gta thing. But i dont feel this applies. Breath of the wild shattered the formula ocarina established and brought zelda down to the core of its spirit. I strongly disagree that this game lost its identity. It proudly displays what zelda is all about. Id argue....if breath of the wild lost its identity, than so did skyward sword but for the opposite reason.
@@goldenlotus3046 I think Skyward suffers a lot but I give it credit because it is a Zelda game at heart or has the core values. Usually involving 1. Complex Dungeons 2. Dungeon items 3. Good story 4. Music These are core values of what Zelda is BOTW/ TOK does these poorly or are completely absent. That is enough to almost not being Zelda games. There is a reason many fans don’t consider these last two Zelda games. I don’t either tbh. It’s not Zelda right now or at least what made Zelda unique and special.
It is a gimmick. Because that is the selling point and what made that game unique. Every zelda game has had a gimmick 2 - side scroll FF style Alttp- dark world Oracles- had connects between the two versions 4 sword - 4 links Minish cap - smol and various mechanics around that OoT - past and present Mm - always on a timer (but can be slowed or altered which fits into the gameplay) Ww - the ocean sailing TP - wolf link. (Motion control doesnt count here cause they were bare bones and the game was made for gamecube) SS - flying and motion controlls
I respect peoples opinion on this. As for me, this is precisely why i get on board on zelda because of botw and totk. I like open world. I dont like the OG zelda. I will not buy a linear zelda. For those who love it, then its good. But its just not my cup of tea. By the end of the day, its your money, your choice. Buy what you want.
Well then you truly are a NOOB and you really don’t in truth deserve to talk about the situation that Zelda is in I wonder how old you are you must be young? especially if Breath and tears the SO NOT VERY ZELDA GAMES were your first hmm? 🤨 Sorry I have to be absolutely RUDE and HURSH because I’ve been with this series since Links awakening on the colorless game boy pre timeline split and post timeline split after OOT I’ve played more Zelda games that you will ever come to understand NOOBE And breath and tears are OK very Overrated compared to what Nintendo has done with the past especially from a more connected lore story and dungeon stand point And DONT EVEN GET ME F STARTED On LINKS BARELY NO EMOTIONS In Breath and tears by far links worst adoption so far compared to his more lively emotions of Wind WAKER skyward sword and Twilight Princess Like WTF WAS NINTENDO SMOKING WiTH THAT hmm? 🤨
Does Zelda 1 on the NES fell "like a Zelda game" to you? Just curious, because it and BotW have a lot in common. You could even consider BotW the first true sequel to Zelda 1 in terms of how you explore the world. I really don't like Zelda 1 anymore, but I do still enjoy BotW despite it's flaws. But I've said many places that due to its flaws, what became known as TotK couldn't just be BotW2, and it was. I'm hoping BtoW3 will actually merge that old Zelda 1 freedom, with the modern aspects of secrets being observable making me want to seek them out, with the memorable dungeon designs started back in A Link to the Past.
I see more in common between Zelda 1 and A Link to the Past than between Zelda 1 and Breath of the Wild. Zelda 1 may have aged badly, but the "essence" is still there. Breath of the Wild just doesn't have it.
Please repeat what i said in the video Because im pretty sure i said. "Im not asking for souls like bosses" I just feel that its terrible design when the final fight is the easiest in the whole game. It looks epic but feels unearned
@@excalligatorreviews4088 you're wishing for difficulty in a franchise that hardly has difficulty is all i'm saying. In your video you mention OOT ganon and new players probably being challenged by it. 10 year old me figured out you could roll between his legs no problem. I'm not trying to diss you or start an argument. Just saying that Zelda has never been difficult so i think you should not look for it in this franchise. The og zelda was kinda challenging though.
Sales dont mean success from a consumer perspective There are plenty of games that sold well but were trash. Starfield is the recent example The thing is. Breath and tears are good "games" i never said they were bad games. I said they are not good zelda games. And by limited, you are talking about the open world aspect. Again the first thing i said is that the open world is NOT the reason fans want a traditional zelda game. Its the items, story delivery, and dungeons.
@@excalligatorreviews4088 Unlike Starfield, Zelda BotW was the game with the most perfect ratings in history. All the problems mentioned in the video can be solved in an open world game. Now, that "fans want a classic Zelda" seems more like a hoax than a fact to me.
You are conflating everything i said innthe video with open world / non linear You can have an open world and still have everything i mentioned. Every other open world game does this. So why cant zelda?
@@excalligatorreviews4088 "Every other open world does this"? Which? In the last 10 years, only Metal Gear V, Zelda and MAYBE RDR2 have managed to actually be good open world games.
@@LucianeTorres-vc9oi ah I found you again my young soul. Sad really. A pathetic form you show. My sweet sweet Luciane. Thy shall forever be a fool if thine does not play moe games. Maybe elden ring… A great example on how one can make things open, and free. Yet not lose the core experience. Sales do mean things and so do reviews but not always. It is the order of things. When Nintendo parts the clouds and gifts us there magnum opus, we all begin to blow our loads. We are blinded by love and nostalgia. Only then do we far later realize this shit kind of sucked. But if no one critiques it, then nothing will get better. So we must critique the things it lacks in order for the artist who created the thing knows where he can improve. If all you want is to suckle the titty, then suckle the titty little one. Meanwhile ill search the whole body, every crevice, searching for them fuckin deku nuts. I want something more.
@H-TownGamer Different people prefer different styles of games, its just preferences. Play what u like, and let others enjoy the games that they like.
@@devilrider39000000 Well can’t really play whatI like when they don’t make it anymore. I’ve always liked Zelda well it’s not really Zelda anymore atleast TOK/BOTW. They said they hope it comes back I said I hope it doesn’t there’s not much more too it than that
They'll find a happy medium. But here's the thing, exploring TOTK is much more rewarding than any other zelda world. Twilight princess for instance had a large empty, boring Hyrule (good dungeons but a terrible open world) Ive recently been playing older Zeldas and while more focused Dungeons are great, everything else(unskippable dialogue, busy work between dungeons are objectively worse) I do miss the green tunic but the world of tears is rewarding for me to explore. The story in BOTW and Tears is garbage, but not being constrained by having to devote alot of time to story like the awful one of SS made the trade-off worth it imho. Another thing that people don't seem to appreciate is the lead up to dungeons in TOTK because they're dungeon-like in and of themselves. Im playing SS currently and i like the dungeons but the constant backtracking and copious amount of (wholly uninteresting )exposition is such a mood killer. One other thing is tears has difficulty in its combat if you play low hearts. A stray arrow or an enemy off screen can one shot you. Twilight princess for example had cool techniques to learn but when giant bosses take a half heart every hit it goes to waste.
I don't know what kind of Mandela effect it is that seems to be affecting TH-camrs, but the only Zeldas where story was integral to the plot and "happened" as you played were Twilight Princess, Skyward sword and all of the adult timeline games. So basically like 5 games. Of these 5 games, TP had the crappiest and less impactful delivery of story (in recent memory). Not to mention, it made the least sense. Because Link's quest wasn't driven by the narrative. He was just an accessory to Midna. This time around there was no sealed magical door or missing magical bridge to complete the quest. There was just a little imp telling you that you were not good enough. In fact you even get to Zelda early on and kind of just leave her there. Not to mention, Ganondorf comes out of nowhere, just because. Now Skyward Sword did good with the narrative. It's just that nobody played it and therefore isn't memorable enough, even compared to games where the story wasn't even an integral part. WW, PH and SP had way more compelling and impactful stories. The quest was narrative driven. You had to complete it. There was no questioning it. In WW's case even, the quest would take on different turns kind of like in OoT and MM and it was always reasonable. But those are just 3 times where the story was better, out of like over 20 games. In most games story delivery is exactly the same as in BotW and TotK. You get to a new area, you get some story. You complete the area, you get some more. You advance to the mid point of the main quest, you get a cutscene and a new motivation. You get to the end, you get the last bits. Even the most beloved 3D Zeldas are like this. Oot and MM are like this. I'm not a fan of memories in BotW and TotK, but they are optional side quests to get more story. Just like how the bombers notebook worked in MM. If anything, TotK is probably the 5th most story focused game in the series.
Link's quest in TP was to bring back his friends after being kidnapped. He then got involved in Hyrule's affairs via Midna, who started off a bitch, but slowly came to like Link. Out of any side kick, Midna is the most memorable, most developed and has the most personality. Now thats not to say the over all story is good. It definatly had dark themes of Zant walkin in and killing all of zelda's guards and her giving up to save her people. But Zelda wasn't focused on as much. Which led to issues with her and Link's chemistry. A weak story over all but had good points. SS had alot of very good narrative points to it, but the flow was a bit off. Not to mention the revisiting of 3 zones 3 times over. It was the most linear in terms of world layout, and repetitive in terms of progression. But it had the chemistry that TP didnt have. WW and OoT have the best mix of narrative and flow. Both set you off on paths, which lead to larger adventures and eventually become fully realized missions to stop Gannondorf. OoT is dated now and does miss out on narrative building, but Its more of a fault of the tech at the time. If remade, Im sure it could be just as fleshed out as the manga was. even then, it still has enough beats to get you the full Idea of what is happening. WW doesnt really need changing. Link and Zelda have developments while she is Tetra, he had his personal goal to save his sister, which turns into saving zelda, and he has his companion the Red lion. Who was a great companion next to Midna. PH was ok as a spin off. as was ST Earlier Zelda games such as LttP / 4 swords were bare bones "save the kingdom / save zelda" because it was never much of a larger scope / world untill OoT mixed up the formula with the story narrative, but kept all of the integral parts of the main core of Zelda games. Though I would say there are some decent beats with the Oracle games.
@karinmaehara8717 I was just talking about the story. Now if you want my overall opinion, I don't think it's up there among the greats, but it's not the worst Zelda either. But you have to concede at least, narrative wise, it made no sense and it's not the best example of a great Zelda story. First of all, it's not even about Zelda, or rescuing her. Link lost his purpose Halfway through and became Midna's lapdog, literally, progressing through the story when it pleased her. I know that it fulfilled a certain demographics' fantasy, but I'm just talking story here. It was lackluster at best.
I hear you but I have to agree with him twlight and a much more heartfelt story, weather it’s good or not it’s was epic, emotional and had climatic moments. Same for OOT and MM. WW was not bad just too kiddy for me. However they had a better story than what BOTW and TOK have. It’s barely even a story and told in a very repetitive and broken way
@@sergiobricenos plenty of Zelda games that barely feature her or don't at all. I don't think her having a slightly diminished role is an automatic negative.
I think you’re missing the point. Games are a creative endeavor. Any artist worth their salt makes what they feel is right. Feedback aside, there’s enough in Botw/Totk to merit its value. And upset is a strong word. Disappointed sure, but I think there’s worse things to get upset about.
To me this is like comparing the original assassin's Creed to Black flag. Black flag deviated from The originals formula and was better in every way. I believe that's what the series has done.
While I enjoyed black flag, alot of the systems from older assassin's creed games were watered down and not as important. Namely the parkour and stealth. The city / town segments were pretty much instanced out and not a full open world. And the islands themselves were not open. The towns were bland and the islands were linear paths similar to skyward swords locals. The only thing that made black flag good was the naval combat.
So why play zelda games when that is the main selling point of the series? Thats like saying you dont like dinosaurs. So remove them from jurassic park.
Saying BotW/Totk are not Zelda is like saying Oot is not a Zelda game. If you look at Zelda games that came out before Oot you can see that they changed a lot. Botw has actually more in common with the first Zelda since you can go where ever you want you could even enter dungeouns out of order. Just like Oot, BotW introduced a new Zelda formula that appealed to a big audience. It is something new you will have to get used to since these are the future Zelda's
Except...in the first Zelda, you were restricted as to where to go until you got a certain item. It was also a dungeon-focused game, the overworld was just there to connect one dungeon to the next. Also, it had more enemy types than BotW, actual dungeon items, complex labyrinths, and good overworld music. It's not the same. Also, OoT reused ALttP's formula, just in 3D. BotW literally changed the entire formula, removing the MOST important aspect of a Zelda game--the dungeons--in favor of open world exploration, which was NEVER the intent behind the series.
@@rocknatex5013 i think your problem is change instead of lacking quality. Being restricted to a specific area is a personal preference not everyone likes that. Also going from 2D to 3D is a very big change Super Mario 64 is very different from Super Mario World
Not really. OoT is more like Alttp than botw is to original. Original had dungeon crawls. It had the unique flavorful items. And while there are many world secrets to find which every zelda game has, there is an optimal way to do the game as many dungeons can not be access or finished without items of other dungeons. Its not a fully open world game. There are games you can go anywhere you want whenever you want within the unlocked sections via progression. Then there are games that say fuck it go wherever. Oot and TP. Ect are part of that first catagory. While botw is of the latter.
The one and ONLY thing Botw/Totk has in common with Zelda 1 is being open world. And even then, Zelda 1 had certain areas and dungeons locked behind key items. It didn't let you go EVERYWHERE from the start. Also, beating all the dungeons was required to beat the game. Zelda 1 has far more in common with the rest of the series than Botw/Totk.
@@nicke5801 Zelda 1 also had permanent item progression. Once you get an item, it's a permanent part of your combat repertoire that changes how you approach combat and makes certain difficult enemies easier. Each item has a unique function in both combat and in puzzle solving. You don't get all the items right away either, you have to earn them by finding their secret locations or searching dungeons. Zelda 1 is much more similar to OOT than it is to BotW. BotW is essentially like they undid all the things they learned over the past 35 years AND they also abandoned core features of the original idea to be replaced with modern mobile-game-esq design principles. Koroks and korok seeds are annoyingly close to an arbitrary in-game currency you earn from completing stupidly short and easy mobile-game puzzles to buy pointless cosmetics. Shrines may as well be Angry Birds levels with how short, easy, and disconnected from everything they are.
No, YOU are wrong! Aonuma was right to criticize all your low standards. Tears of the Kingdom is the best designed Zelda game we ever had since Majora’s mask. This isn’t the right time for you all to take us back to low quality skyward sword, and twilight princess. The last time the Nintendo Development team listened to the fans was when they changed projects from a true wind Waker sequel to the mediocre twilight princess.
Ah yes WE have low standards because we don't want a generic open world sandbox game. WE have low standards for wanting good writing, engaging gameplay and fun level design. Get real kid. Maybe actually play a Zelda game made before BoTW. I'd suggest actually trying Twilight Princess. That game is the second best in the franchise beside Ocarina of Time
@@connorharnage6697 I played all Zelda games, biiiiiiccchhh. What you are demanding is brainless spoon-fed storytelling when I prefer a more natural, poetic and fragmented Christopher Nolan-like approach such as Tears of the Jews. Biiiiicccchhhh
@@DanielMazahreh Ah yes spoon fed as in actually having a story and not just a series of flashbacks to things that WOULD have been fun to actually play. Also calling someone a bitch doesn't make you right. It just makes you annoying
I’m a huge Zelda fan and if we get a third game just like the last two with a story told in the past, bad dungeons, and no real items I think I’m gonna sit it out. I just haven’t been all that into the last two.
Sorry i didn't buy a zelda game to build whacky ass gokarts in a medieval world. Sorry I didn't buy a zelda game to skip exploring up a cool mountain to be able to just slip through the wall. It's not rewarding at all. Totk Ganondorf was badass, sorry we weren't around to see it. Instead we are there to collect screen clips of the past that has nothing to do with Botw
Honestly, the randomizers give me hope for traditional items in an open air style game.
It's like as if they discovered programmable shaders and normalmaps with botw. They wanted to have complete openness for players to be able to go to ganon directly. In that regard they succeeded, but not every f-ing player is a speedrunner, wanting to do that. Same true for difficulty. You can prepare for areas with more buffed versions of enemy types. But since there is no XP aside from getting better with the mechanics, if you don't feel inclined to get better or don't enjoy the special abilities at all, you're kind of screwed.
The story makes it pointless to endure any suffering, as well as breakable weapons do.
As a result. Link feels like an athlet you don't wanna be, an empty, voiceless shell doing zelda's busy work to an unsatisfying end.
Totk, albeit quite a feat they pulled off, just fills the gaps a little, to make it look less of a fleemarket spree you're tossed into.
Technicalities hinder the whole picture to come together. When graphics are lacking this much, there is little to keep someone invested. The art direction argument falls apart when you get a glimpse at what they were trying to achieve.
Of course the open world theme has become an old shoe by now, but still, if they could manage to combine open and linear in a meaningful way, it could work. But there is always a cost to that, something the publisher/dev would need to include in their set out vision.
The elements system is very cool, but gets old quickly. As well as having to change clothes to adapt to different climates. It's just not fun. And cooking doesn't help.
Botw and Totk feel both like busy work. Nothing i particularily am searching in my personal sparetime, no thanks.
Have you played Ys VIII: Lacromosa of Dana? To me, it felt like BotW's story in the traditional Zelda format, though with more focus on action than puzzles, and it originally came out about a year before BotW. You even get parts of the story revealed to you via flashbacks, but you control a character in those flashbacks and get to explore its equivalent of Old Hyrule and form bonds with the people therein and explore the origins of the prophecy that you're trying to avert.
NOW THIS WOULD'VE BEEN AWESOME! Totally a missed opportunity. Could've brought back the Tears from Twilight princess for Totk in those segments too. Make us train with the Zonai sages after collecting like 10 tears in the spirit world.
Ys 8 is hot garbage! Lol , not liking a Zelda game is one thing, but praising weeb trash like Ys 8 is ridiculous
@@HoboWithAShotgun Yeah, I mean, it's not like it's a super successful game that iterated on an already successful formula and brought Ys a ton of mainstream appeal or anything.
@@lnsflare1 I bought it and hated it lol. If you like it that's fine, but I hate the arcade like combat. It has no weight behind it. And I can't stand how people dress in animes lol
@@HoboWithAShotgun That's more of a you thing than an issue with the game itself. Ys has had arcadey combat in all its installations, and does it pretty damn well. Regarding the fashion, that's definitely a matter of personal taste, and I can even somewhat agree, but it has nothing to do with my original post.
I’m almost 40 years old, and I’ve grown up with the Zelda series. My first game was the NES original when I was far too young to know what to do, so I’d walk around Hyrule just killing enemies for hours.
This is a great video and echoes my thoughts on the series direction.
My favourite games are Ocarina, Twilight, Windwaker and A link to the past. They’re memorable and relatable because of the dungeons. When I complete one of those games, I feel like I’ve been on a journey. An adventure. I feel immersed!
Now, I’ve spent 400+ hours on each of BOTW and TOTK, and I LOVED the open world Hyrule. It was SO much fun exploring. But I badly missed the traditional dungeons. Places I could discover and enter. Spend an hour or 2 exploring a labyrinth like temple or structure, unlocking doors to venture further as I discover secrets. The dungeons themes and experiences are memorable. There’s a reason why people make Top 10 lists of dungeons and music.
BOTW and TOTK is designed to appease the short attention span Tik Tok generation. Small singular puzzles in 150 shrines that can be done in short bursts. 4 divine beasts that are small and have a single puzzle to sold. Void of any enemies or distractions. No themes or music. They’re boring copy and paste!
I hope the next Zelda gives us the same style open world and exploration of the new games, but buries 8-12 traditional style dungeons in the map for us to discover. PROPER dungeons. Not like what we saw in TOTK
This is a 7 month old video but I just finished playing botw and totk. They were my first zelda games, I have never been a nintendo fan. The main problem I find with these 2 is the developers insistance on it being completely non-linear. Because you can do the main quest in any order you want they are all equal in difficulty and skill required. Meaning that there is no ability in the game that you have to earn to fight a specific enemy. That translates to them all being equally easy after you master basic combat ( which is not hard, about 2 hours of gameplay and you should be fine even if you have never played another game in your life). The world also seems unchaning and there is nothing that makes you feel like you need to progress. You can literally run around chasing korok seeds for 200 hours and come back like oh, was there a princess that I need to save or something? Lastly the items breaking is simply despicable. Haven't played the older games as I said in the start so I don't mind them being "forgetable" but even if I find a cool sword that I like its just gonna break after a fight with a couple mobs. Also wtf could they not just make the Master Sword actually unbreakable and not this recharging nonsense? All in all I enjoyed the games, but they focused too much on this open world thing being the main selling point. Not everyone wants to spend 300 on a completely uncurated experience. Im not that hardcore of a fan so Im not looking for an excuse to spend an entire year on a zelda game.
Look, I Love COLLECTING WEAPONS AND ARMOR AND ITEMS!
I HATE when Weapons and Shields Break and you can't even Repair them, you can't Store any Items or Weapons in a Storage Container, you don't even learn Skills to maintain the Weapons and Shields, your Personal Storage is Limited, even though there are More Items or Clothing than there is Storage Space, I hate that Stamina is USED FOR EVERYTHING! I hate it when Climbing, Swimming, Gliding, and Sprinting! You can't Swim or Dive in Zelda anymore! I Fucking HATE IT!
No, Fuck the "Skill Issue" Crap! WE ARE LIMITED IN AN OPEN WORLD ZELDA GAME WHERE THE POSSIBILITIES SHOULD HAVE BEEN LIMITLESS! But we are Forced to Deal with these Limitations because Bullshit Reason, That's how they wanted it, and Other Retarded things.
I Wanted to See Hyrule and Explore every Nook and Cranny, Dive into the Depths of the Ocean and Lakes, Delve into Caves and Grottos, Discover the Mysteries of Dungeons, Obtain Useful Items, Weapons, and Tools, but I can't because NONE OF THESE ARE POSSIBLE OR EXIST! BotW is NOT a Zelda Game, its a Bad Knock Off, Wannabe Off Brand Elder Scrolls, that has Bad Mechanics, Poor Weapon and Shield Durability, No Skills, No Dungeons or Caves, No Exploring Deep Water Area, Zelda Skin Rip Off!!
I 100% agree with you. Traditional formula is better. Or at least, they should adjust what they’re doing now. I’ve loved Zelda games since I was a child and I’ve been let down enough withe the last two.
The traditional formula is more open ended
@@PGnumbaONEless filler and bullshit
I wanted to write down my initial reactions as I went along, so I apologize if this comment gets too long. Like your video, this will be a bit unscripted and rant-like, so I apologize in advance. I'll leave timestamps as to where I am (addressing what was said BEFORE the timestamps, not AFTER).
0:55 I 100% agree. This is something I've said about BotW for years now: it's a good game, but it's NOT Zelda. If it had nothing to do with the Zelda IP, I'd probably think it was a cool new series. But my problem with it always stemmed from the fact that it IS supposedly a Zelda game, despite it not actually playing or feeling like a Zelda game at all. Because of that, it's my least favorite Zelda game. Even The Adventure of Link--notorious for being a black sheep in the series--feels more like Zelda than BotW.
2:31 I will add that it WAS nice to have a world that opens up as you obtain items. It lets the later portions of the world have a higher difficulty, and adds to that sense of exploration. Plus, some people site the open world as the reason why the overworld had no music (because "it would get repetitive after hours of exploration"), which is a dumb take, but still. That said, I have no problem with the world being more open than traditional Zelda games. I just want it to incorporate the elements I just specified, which theoretically *should* be possible. And for all I know, that's where you're going with this. But if not, I just thought I'd add that.
3:47 Well, Wind Waker directly mentions the plot of OoT, Phantom Hourglass is a sequel to WW, and Spirit Tracks directly mentions PH, so there *is* at least a *bit* of a timeline there that's undeniable. However, I get what you're saying. Other than some games whose stories are undeniably connected, it's easier (and more fun) to think of Zelda games as being a legend that's retold differently each game rather than an interconnected storyline of rebirth. I, myself, have always been invested in the timeline. But even *I* get that it's a convoluted mess to which there is *no* perfect solution. And TotK just made it worse with its portrayal of Ganondorf. Seriously, if no male Gerudo have been born since Ganondorf was sealed under the castle, then is the founding of Hyrule *after* the major timeline, or does BotW occur earlier in the timeline than people thought? Plus, the geography of Hyrule changes constantly. Yet in the era of founding, it's WAY too similar to BotW's world! Did Hyrule itself revert back to its original form after years of changing?! And where exactly is the Triforce? You'd think if Zelda had it, it would grant her wish to revert Ganon's destruction of Hyrule, but nope. Her power clearly doesn't do that despite the fact that the Triforce has been shown to be able to raise the dead in ALttP! It's a mess to try to work out. So much simpler to think they aren't typically connected.
9:43 In case you don't get to this. Beyond themes and bosses, dungeons should have *items,* a *labyrinth-like layout,* and *puzzles.* All three things that even TotK misses the mark with. Because all the "puzzles" in TotK's dungeons could be solved in multiple ways instead of having you rack your brain for the single correct solution. The layouts were better than the Divine Beasts, but I found you could still make flying machines and just skip all the wandering around to get to wherever you needed to be. And, unless you count the Sages, there were still no dungeon items. Thus, although TotK was a baby step in the right direction, they still weren't dungeons. Because real Zelda dungeons *are* linear, putting restrictions on where you can go and what you can do. Because a puzzle-filled maze *should* restrict you like that. But that's against everything that BotW and TotK stand for. So the "dungeons" in those two games are open, thus not really feeling like Zelda dungeons at all.
12:13 Again, you're probably about to touch on this. But compare ALttP's final battle, where you could fall down a hole and have to restart from the beginning no matter how far you were in the fight, to BotW's final battle. One keeps you on your toes, and there *are* consequences for if you mess up. The other has *no* consequences whatsoever. Compare Demise from SS, which was hard to hit and caused massive damage, to TotK's final fight. One eats away at your potions. The other is literally just skydiving onto the back of a dragon.
15:14 Oh, *I'm* gonna talk about the Korok seeds! But first, again: the Shrines could be solved in a variety of ways. Therefore, once again, the "puzzles" or "labyrinth" aspect were either missing or not as engaging as mini dungeons from other Zelda games. Remember the Bottom of the Well from OoT? Ikana Castle from MM? Royal Crypt from MC? *Those* are mini dungeons done right. Shrines are just "enter, solve the one puzzle or beat the one enemy however you choose, reward." It's short, repetitive, and uninteresting.
Now, as for Koroks. Lengthy collection quests are no strangers to the Zelda series. However, when comparing the Korok quest to the Gold Skulltula quest in OoT or the maiamai quest in ALBW, it's just sad. Not only are there WAY too many Koroks, but the rewards suck. In OoT, you could be rewarded for finding Skulltulas with a bigger wallet or a Piece of Heart. In ALBW, you would be rewarded for finding maiamais by having your items upgraded to more powerful versions. In BotW, you're rewarded for gathering Korok seeds by...increasing your carrying capacity and getting some useless poop. Wow. What a reward. Totally worth getting *some,* but it doesn't encourage me to gather *all* Korok seeds. It really is a failure of a collection quest, simply because the reward system isn't actually all that rewarding.
18:09 The Giant's Knife in OoT handles the temporary item durability thing really well. It was a more powerful weapon than your normal Master Sword, but it broke after so long of use and then you'd have to rely on your Master Sword again. However, once again, there was a lengthy sidequest that allowed you to get an unbreakable version of that item.
20:17 I'm gonna say something here you probably won't agree with. The reason why BotW and TotK's story delivery sucks...is because they're non-linear games. If you have a game where you can go wherever and do whatever at ANY time, then the story needs to be open to follow you as opposed to you following the story. Thus, instead of having a gradually progressing story, we have to experience the story in disconnected fragments, most of which occurring via memories. This leads to garbage storytelling. For example, do you remember the Tetra reveal in WW? The reason that worked is because it was revealed at a key point in the story AFTER experiencing a large portion of the game. In TotK, they try a similar plot twist with the Light Dragon. However, just getting ONE memory out of order ruins everything. And heaven help if you do the memories before the dungeons, because you'll see through the Phantom Zelda "plot twist" super easily. The only way a plot twist, or even a progressing storyline, can work is if it's told in sequence rather than in fragments. Thus, to have a good story, you *cannot* experience any story parts out of order. In other words, the story *has* to be linear. This begs the question. Can we have a game where the world is open but the story is linear? I think it may be possible, but it certainly wouldn't be easy.
28:51 A Link Between Worlds was an open world traditional Zelda game. You could do any dungeon in any order, but they were still dungeons. There were still items. There was still overworld music. It was still Zelda.
FINAL THOUGHTS:
I agree with several of your points, but there is one I would personally add: music. BotW and TotK have some pretty good music, but what bothers me is specifically the lack of overworld music. I don't like spending hours upon hours listening to broken piano notes. I miss when Zelda had adventure songs. A lot of people argue that music wouldn't have worked in BotW's world, but I'd say that it would have if they had a good composer. It didn't need to be epic or bombastic. They could've had something slow and somber. But give it a melody for Hylia's sake. As for whether or not that melody would get repetitive, again, that depends on the skill of the composer. Ocarina of Time has an overworld theme with a lot of variations throughout the song, making it last longer before it loops back to the beginning. BotW could've done something similar, where the overworld theme is like 20 minutes of variations before looping back to the beginning of the song. Each area could've had its own song (Akkala, Hyrule Field, Faron Woods, etc.) like what Skyward Sword did. It didn't HAVE to be epic or repetitive. If the composer was good enough, music would've worked well in BotW's world. But instead we got silence. I don't care what argument people make about the MEANING of the silence, it won't change the fact that it's boring and that they COULD have done better. But that's just me.
Good video. And thanks for addressing these points. More Zelda fans need to call out Aonuma's BS regarding classic Zelda. BotW took out the very formula that attracted fans to the Zelda series in the first place. Of course people want it back! It needed variation so that it wasn't so stale, not to be completely eliminated! It's like taking a sick dog to the vet, then they just kill the dog rather than help make it better. Then they give you a *new* dog and don't understand why you're sad that your old dog was killed. The first dog was *sick* and needed to be made *better,* not killed! We didn't ask for a new dog. We liked ours just fine! But I'm afraid that, since Aonuma doesn't understand that, we'll never see the old formula return again. Zelda as we knew it is dead. And BotW/TotK is the future of the series. Count me out.
I completely agree with the sentiment of "BotW/TotK aren't proper Zelda games". However, I do appreciate them as part of the series: Zelda has always been a place to experiment. The gameplay and the formula _should_ change a bit every time.
I just hope that they will return to a more traditional Zelda next. It was a fun ride, but there are _enough_ true open world games out there. Zelda has always been about exploration; but I want the series to focus on dungeons again.
I doubt there will be a third part to the current Hyrule; that ending felt _very_ final. My hope and expectation is that they are planning for a mid-timeline, more formula-adjacent game next. It's a strong hope, and a dwindling expectation.
I miss bottles...
Edit to add my little conspiracy theory: They won't make a formula Zelda for the switch, so fans "have to" pay for the online subscription to endlessly replay Ocarina.
Another complaint: Why are the quests so boring? I am still mad about the cricket guy. And they seriously repeated that bs in the sequel??? Don't end the quest at f*cking 10, make me fetch 500 crickets incrementally, while letting me see into the life and personal development of these side characters.
I said before that Zelda games have always involved and rewarded exploration. But with these games, I feel like they sidelined the main appeal of the series (dungeons), to put more focus on exploration and quests. And then they made exploration *less rewarding,* and quests *less involved and interesting.* I _genuinely liked_ the biggoron sword thing.
Of the same feeling, i think these zelda games are fine as games. I would condede to calling these even spin offs. But as true zelda games they miss the mark on everything.
I am perfectly fine with openworld. As i didnt like the world design of SS being way to restricted.
Just give us higher quality dungeons. Unique non breakable items as rewards for exploration / bosses or dungeon rewards. And let us be in the story. Not all flashbacks.
I really wish they had made these games, without the Zelda IP, cause I would've thoroughly enjoyed them more knowing I didn't have to compare them to objectively better games.
Edit: I think what would have made BOTW and TOTK significantly better is if they took example from Undertale in how to end your games. I hated so much that when you free all the divine beasts your prize is... Making the final fight easier? Like yay.... no one wanted that. Instead they should've done 2 endings or even 4 for if you free the divine beasts or not, be more intimate with the choices that are made. If they want an open world so badly, I think this would tremendously popularize their games even extending past hardcore Zelda fans. People love the small details that can change a games ending. Idk I'm drunk so that probably makes no sense lmao.
"Objectively better games". Not really.
Okay kiddo 🤣
@@MaruchanPrime Typical argument from someone who worships obsolete games.
You didn't really present an argument kiddo, you just spouted a half sentence opinion, go touch some grass or something.
@@LucianeTorres-vc9oi older zelda games are not obsolete. If they were, they would not be such a cultural phenomenon that they still are today. You can go into any convention hall, or "nerd" store and see Tshirts, jewelry of heart containers and the pot gems. Keychains of various items and characters. Ect
Meanwhile, i rarely see any botw merch. I saw maybe a few items. But thats it.
And this is within the last few years
So no, your observation is false
I'm going to talk about 2 things that I actually disagree with this video
1. This guy said the master sword is done slightly better in TotK, I completely disagree as I feel like the master sword was insulted in TotK, Nintendo drops a huge story point about the SWORD BEING BROKEN IN HALF, and after the great sky island the sword is never talked about again until the end. Plus it's even easier to get the master sword than it was in BotW, all you do it get 20 shrines, get on Zelda's head and pull the damn sword out, I literally got the sword before I entered any dungeons
2. TotK's story is not good, and I don't mean in the format it's given to us I'm talking about the story itself, Ganondorf is not a fully developed character but instead just acts evil just because. At least WW and TP gave him some character and backstory, Zelda's dragon transformation felt unearned and I actually couldn't contain my laughter when watching her eat a rock and transform. There's almost no hinting or foreshadowing except for 1 memory. Plus in all the other memories she doesn't even do anything but watch what happens and drink tea with Sonia. As someone who's hoping to become author by next year, I can almost confidentially say that TotK's story is poorly written. If anything I think this game's story should've been about the master sword and about repairing it back into the unbreakable Blade of Evil's Bane. I'm sorry but calling it the sword that seals the darkness sounds like a fourth grader came up with that name
Aonuma hates zelda games and he wanted to copy and paste trends. That is what botw is, a copy and paste of trends.
Just why did it have to be the bad ones. Who looks at minecraft and says, "I really like how the weapons break constantly, I wish that happened in more games"
Or more importantly, when was the last time you looked at a game and said, "man this game is too easy, I wish my weapons would break constantly, that would add some difficulty"
@@FireRED-c8u I mean, we've both spent our entire adult lives, but for him that's like 40 years, for me that's 4. So of course my games are significantly worse than games made by an entire experienced team with a development time of my entire career. That doesn't mean the games are perfect, nor does it mean that I can't call out the game for it's flaws the fundamentally ruin the experience. In fact, by doing so I'm able to make sure I don't commit the same flaws. If I see "oh, your weapons breaking mid combat makes combat worse," or "being forced to spend more money than your wallets max amount for story progression ruins the pacing" then if I'm ever tempted to do the same thing, I won't.
Also, when he developed wind waker, I was negative years old. I think the game came out when I was 2 months old, or around that timr
@@FireRED-c8u Say all you want. The fact of what hioman said and i are there. Aonuma is following trends, and he wants the easy way to make games.
Wind waker was not well received for the childish art style, not for the zelda formula.
This was an excellent analysis. Zelda needs to get back to dungeons, items, and more player-involved stories. And I've always considered open world and linear as sides of two different coins, the way I define the terms.
Oh, you mean those same low quality Zelda games like skyward sword and twilight princess? No, thanks. Tears of the Kingdom is the highest quality Zelda game we ever had since Majora’s mask.
@@DanielMazahreh You do realize that OP is also describing every other Zelda game before those two as well right?
@@DanielMazahrehAh yes low quality is having a well written story, excellent dungeon design and fun gameplay. Low quality isn't making a boring open world game with copy pasted content, terrible writing and easy boss fights. I had more trouble with the first Girahim fight than I did any of the Blights. That's embarrassing
i agree with almost everything you said, botw and totk are 2 of my least favorite zelda games and i havent loved one since twilight princess
Feel the same but I liked Skyward Sword a lot as well. I like puzzles :)
TP and SS are my favorites. SS for themes (not only songs, but dungeons and overarching stories.) and TP for everything else.
What percentage of "fans" have BotW/TotK as their "least favorite"? 1%?
@@gustafadolfsson4904i just didnt like the motion controls cuz im lefty
@LucianeTorres-vc9oi they just don't feel like Zelda games. They are missing something.
On the topic of the final boss: It's deliberate that the last phase of canon in BOTW and TOTK is more cinematic and not challenging, but I hate that. It should be the other way around, start with the easy phases and end with the most difficult. That way the win actually feels epic and earned.
That's not really unique to Zelda, tbh. I believe the usual term is "Catharsis".
I've seen a game do the reverse, in a way (scripted loss, before you get the boost that lets you fight normally), and it was... Very cinematic and fun until you have to replay it because you lost on the first try. I think that's a big reason to stick to them being final phase.
What makes it feel epic and earned is generally supposed to be getting to that phase.
I think what makes them feel like they fall flat, really, is that the fights prior... TotK Ganondorf was cool and all, but most of the phases were repetitive.
Dude. This is one of the best videos about the new Zelda games I have seen. I recently wrote a full review of BOTW because I needed to get my frustration out and literally everything you said in your video was what I wrote about. Unreal. Thank you so much for thinking critically and reminding so many of us why we fell in love with this franchise in the first place. I don't want to take away anyones fun but damnit, I feel like there are so many gamers still in the honeymoon phase with the 2 new entries or just simply incapable of putting together any rational opinions of their own. Are we just going to continue to be spoon fed shallow hand-holdy games like these? I want some art in my games. Oh one last thing with regards to the 4 points you opened the video with. You forgot to mention music. To me this might carry more weight than any other element. Where the hell were the themes like Lost Woods, Midna's theme, Dragon Roost Island, Clock Town - literally anything from the previous 3D Zelda entires - pick your favourite.. Strong music that elevates the game and gives each area its own atmosphere. Completely absent in recent games.
Yes i did leave out music. Which i agree is a key component. Another comment said the same. I left it out on purpose because while i agree that the music is lack luster in both games minus a few tracks, i wanted to focus more on the gameplay itself.
Oh my god. Someone who shares my EXACT Opinion. I get flamed for not caring about totk or botw allllll the time.
My point to aonuma and this is me even liking some of the subpar “restrictive “ games. Aonuma it was your directing that made them that way. Read his other interviews back then. He was concerned with making it easier and less likely to get stuck. This tells me that the corporate culture and the marketing tell the game devs at Nintendo want to do. Now he is all locked in on open air. Why because after the Wiiu fail Nintendo needed to get hardcore gamers back and this gave them LOADS of money.
The other games you had freedom to complete at least oot(adult dungeons in almost any order).
Windwaker had a freedom point after the second dungeon but really after 2nd forsaken fortress and 2nd hyrule castle visit.
After you get the master sword in TP is a freedom point. You can't complete everything but you can explore and go oh I can do this, this or this, I need something to go overhere and do this.
Even the portable have freedom points.
It was Skyward Sword that was really linear.
"Why do you want to go back to a type of game where you're more limited or more restricted in the types of things or ways you can Play?"
Sure you get more Freedom but here's the huge problem with it THERE IS NOTHING TO EXPLORE FOR!
The Depths and Skyward Islands in TOTK is an amazing idea but I fucked hated how Empty they are.
The Technology of the Zonai is an amazing idea but in my opinion it is poorly executed.
I Love BOTW and TOTK but I won't ever defend them because these two games have the same huge issue where everything feels EMPTY!
Personally, I would love to see a remake of twilight, princess, with the ability to play like Zelda breath of the wild and tears of the kingdom
Nintendo is good at listening to feedback but not great at knowing what to do with it. WW got backlash so they thought reimagining OoT was what we wanted. After SS most people were tired of the formula so they threw away everything. I hope the next game is open world with big linear dungeons.
Listen. They will hear the complaints about story and make the next game's story be something like Souls where everything will be written in items and etc. Or they will straight up put way too much expositive text in random dialogue, or maybe, even take story out entirely lol
This is why I started playing ocarina of time mods gives that Zelda feel but something brand new, y’all should check them out too
didn't even know you could mod switch games.
@excalligatorreviews4088 it's modding of the ocarina of time on the n64 can play on PC, mobile or N64 everdrive idk about switch tho
@excalligatorreviews4088 I'll recommended some hacks: Master of Time, The Sealed Palace, Gold Quest and Indigo chapter 1 and 2.
I love OOT rom hacks!! If you want an absolutely infuriatingly hard one, try nimpize's adventure lol. I straight up don't think I'd be able to get thru it without save states😅
@levilombardi3162 I beat Nimpize without save states but it was really hard to do, I really had to push myself hard to complete it
Glad someone finally agree's. I doubt they'll make another Zelda game that I enjoy, sadly. My only hope is remakes and a new 2D Zelda game
Same
Remakes are a dicey prospect.
2D Zelda? Well if Echoes or whatever it is called is any indication that's a lost cause too...
You are rocking it excalligator!
I agree that totk is rather disappointing and I think I had expectations for this to be a more eloquent video so I won't go into it but this feels to be a very...emotionally charged rant that I think makes some very good points, but also spends a lot of the video reiterating and reemphasizing those points while many other very good criticisms are still available for notice
Totk is amazing and I've been a fan since Ocarina Of Time.
@@onlygoodgamesofficialGonna disagree man. I love Breath of the Wild despite its flaws. Totk just feels like a DLC to that. A large Elden Ring style DLC, but DLC nonetheless
special items would work in BOTW, aonuma probably dont think so. But it very much would. The point of the items are that they seemed to be designed for someone for a purpose...They are magical items that overpowers any normal items in the world. They could of given us them and let us play wit enemy weapons.
i fully agree. totk and botw are good games if you ignore the title, but theyre miles behind the rest of the franchise and it's not even close. They simply try to compensate the lack of og zelda essence with mechanics, which, even if they are super sophisticated, are used so much throughout the game that they get tiring. it's like they took the work that brought em here and dumped it as if it was a used cloth
They dumped it because they had declining sales, I don't know what u expected them to do.
@@devilrider39000000Figure out why and course correct without losing the soul of the series
We need a true “Zelda” game again! Hope they go back to a twilight princess/OOT style
Keep dreaming boy 🗿
Now i know why they don't want TP/Windwaker on the Switch
Wow, finally someone renouncing timeline...
Im really glad people are talking about this now. I love zelda but i did not like botw at all, I didnt even buy totk. The only new zelda games i like are Links Awakening, Age of Calamity, and Skyward Sword HD. I felt so gaslit by everyone saying its the best game ever and winning game of the year. 😂
I agree with the items thing. But I think they're getting closer with all the Zonai abilities and sages in TotK. It's not perfect, but I think it's heading in that direction. Same with the dungeons and story, they're taking steps forward but it's a work in progress. I don't even touch BotW anymore.
Edit: To be fair, with the sages it's pretty much copy paste in every game. All the sages in OoT are like "we're your friends and the destiny of Hyrule and Hero of TIme" then Majora had even less with the 4 giants, Twilight Princess has the light spirits you meet like once, Skyward Sword has the dragons I guess? And the 2d Zelda's you usually just get the thing and leave. It's never been that complex.
Having to go help 7 sages in each ( most) game isn't the issue.
Oot each sage had different issues. Different dialogue. And different cutscenes. Even in the end when they are all in that spirit realm. They were varied.
TotK it was literally copy paste dialogue. And most of the cutscenes were the same as well.
Just stumbled upon this video and everything here is so true! These two games are Zelda games in name only, take the names of locations and characters out and you got a generic open world game. They’re all spectacle no substance, like Totk for example, they show us in trailers the sky islands, an interesting story, ganondorf as a character, and once the games comes out dungeons and the depths. All of these are so cool in concept but in reality, the sky and depths are copy pasted with little to nothing to do, the story is once again told in memories that add up to a sh*t story, the dungeons are literally just the ones from Botw except named after an element, and Ganondorf literally has no motivation to be evil except just because. And we’re not even allowed 2D Zelda, Echoes of Wisdom seems to be an entire game based on auto build from Totk and you can play as Zelda, which would’ve been cool, but only after assuring us that the traditional formula lives on, even if only in 2D. Here’s hoping the next Zelda game isn’t the exact same as Botw and Totk but instead incorporates elements to make it an actual Zelda game, otherwise I think I’m done with Zelda
One of the best videos here. like we haven’t had a great Zelda since twilight princess. Straight up.
What about Link Between Worlds?
Skyward Sword was pretty good.
ALBW and SS (especially the new version where you can play it without motion controls) are very solid traditional Zelda games
No he’s right. Zelda fans are absurdly deluded and they need to take off their nostalgia goggles once in a while.
You're just as ignorant as Aonuma is.
Yeah okay buddy what ever you say lol.
At this point, I see that us fans love the series more than Nintendo. Nintendo is tired and they are killing the series. I didn’t buy BOTW or TOTK. I noticed something is wrong. I can’t support Zelda anymore. They don’t hear us fans. They want to destroy the series and dumb it down even more. It’s so sad they are killing it.. we need to stop buying at this point. This really bad..
Botw story isnt presented the best but still is amazing, Totk is absolutely amazing and does everything right a sequel should.
If there was a big untapped market for a traditional Zelda like adventure game Nintendo wasn't reaching a different company would make one.. it should speak volumes to everyone complaining that nobody has. Just saying.
The Zelda Movie should have been made as an Anime Film, NOT LIVE ACTION because it just looks So Weird Right Now, Especially after Super Mario's 3D Animated Film was a Big Success.
But, Notice a Trend? They Made Mario before Zelda back when Arcades were Popular, then the Super Mario Games on the NES, then Zelda and its 13 Episode Show comes along AFTER MARIO, then we had tye Super Mario Super Show for the SNES Mario Games and then Zelda's Game, then a Super Mario Movie, but NO Zelda until the N64, THEN we have the New 3D Super Mario Bros. Movie, and Now we are getting a Zelda Movie.
The Trend is that Nintendo Treats Mario as the Golden Child, while Zelda is the Second Middle Child and Other Franchises are pretty much the Unwanted Children of Nintendo. They Treat ALL OTHER Franchises with Less Respect and would rather Kill them Off because Mario makes them the Most Money and is the Most Whored Out Franchise over every other Franchise to this Day.
I wouldn't say that. I just think Nintendo lacks common sense.
@@paulypipes3082 probably, but if the cared about their Other Franchises then you'd see more Metroid, Star Fox, F-Zero, etc.
@@ItatsuMagnatsa i definitly agree. Donkey Kong needs a damn DK54 treatment again, same with StarFox. what pisses me off is Black Myth Wukong is such a great game and it is somewhat linear and restricted. bringing back badass unlockable items in dungeons and exploring hyrule with linear longer dungeons is needed. it amazes me how the whole point of totk is giving players basically a "i can skip this whole area and puzzle because i have whacky tools at my desposal"...idk it was fun but then as u get far its disappointing, Ganon was awesome yet the story felt too far apart because the sandbox was too stretched out. the depths was such a damn let down as well. copy and paste is abundant down there!
@@paulypipes3082 oh don't get me Started on Zelda's and Ganondorf's Dragon Forms. THOSE were let downs. Nothing says Medieval Western/European like Flying Noodles in the Sky! Did you know that if you Look at all the Dragons in Zelda, the Asian Dragon Designs outnumber the more Culturally Correct Medieval Western/European Dragon Designs? Look at Skyward Sword, there are 3 Asian Dragon Gods, look at BotW/TotK, you have 5 Asian Dragons and 2 of them are the 2 Most Prominent Characters in the Zelda Series, Zelda and Ganondorf. That right there is 8 Asian Dragons right off the Bat. Then there is Volagia from Zelda 2 and Volvagia from OoT, they are described as Different from each other, so that makes it 10 Asian Dragons right there.... in a Prominently Medieval Western/European World....
I was letting you cook and I was eating it up.. then you said that the Twilight Princess 1v1 against Ganondorf was "pretty shitty" and you completely lost me.
On a coolness factor its awesome. But just as the newer games the final phase was the easiest out of the other phases. You just wait till he charges. Push him back and repeat 3 times till you get the prompt to finish him. Thats it.
Ww he learned your fighting style so you had to work with zelda to won. Which didnt always work. And was at least interesting
SS he would rush you as you charged so you had to play the right way or he could 1 shot you. So while the concept was easy, execution was a bit tricky
Same with OOT. When you dont have the big goron sword, hes hard to fight with no sword. Get good at throwing bombs or bow. Lol
Tp i just wished he did a bit more to feel like a sword clash. A few more mechanics is all. The few he does are easily avoided
Take a out that button mash sequence and tp final battle would have been 10x better imo.
BoTW and TotK 100% miss the mark for me. Like you said, beautiful, great games, but not good zelda games. The "dungeons" are far too short and easy. I miss getting stuck in a dungeon, spending hours (if not days, looking at you OoT Water Temple) trying to figure out the solution, not less than 30 minutes.
The main problem with Tears of the Kingdom and BOTW is the lack of item progressions. We can't have traditional dungeons without a key item because dungeons in the past we're designed with a specific item in mind each times and even A Link between worlds masterfully included a lots of alternative ways to complete a dungeon with the items renting system. Having god-like powers right at the beggining of the game hurt so much the progression and the logic of the game. You don't feel like you're evolving at all and the main ''quest'' is like a chore to complete instead of an adventure. That is a big problem. Without items progression ,they're no progression at all. One fun way they can include both is needing a specific item in order to progress through the next dungeon BUT they can do it with an open-minded way : you need to work for it. Or having a specific key in order to unlock the dungeon like in Skyward Sword but its fragmented and you have quests in the open world related to it even mini-dungeons. The Open world should be a playground, not a huge map of nothingness with god awful side-quests that gives nothing of value to the player than wasting your time.
I disagree, I don't think the player needs item progression for a traditional dungeon. BOTW and ToTK already proved that with the shrines. The shrines are small proper dungeons, they have linear progression and still limit what the player can do without the need of an item. You just have to make them longer, and give them a proper theme/aesthetic. (Get rid of the Zonai stuff)
I think LOZ fans a tendency to overrate the dungeon items. Most of them (with a few exceptions), the player only uses them for half a dungeon, and for the rest the game they don't get much use outside their respective dungeon, they just sit in the player's inventory.
I think a traditional Zelda games were not selling, tbh people who are clamoring for traditional Zelda game is very little unlike the 30 million copies BOTW sold, if they kept making traditional ones, Zelda would have gone into oblivion.
I'll argue that point as the original zelda was very popular to start the series. Oot blew it up. As did tp. Ww only became a cult classic years later. Either way, the series was in the public eye and well known with an already large fanbase.
Breath and tears i mever hear anyone outside of youtube talk about them. Most cosplays at conventions are link from tp or oot. Any shirts purchased are just pf the series as a whole. (Only seen 1 breath one which was a fanmade art shirt) and jewelry i see always heart containers and the oot gems. And ofc triforce / sword and shield.
The most i see of breath out in the real world are phone cases that look like the sheikah slate
straight facts
Ok, let's go back to the age of fire then....smh...its one thing to say u like old zelda games and ANOTHER to want to go backwards, mate!
Ironically BOTW and TOK are the most backwards Zelda has ever gone. Lack luster story, bland dungeons and no iconic items
I mean. When moving backwards is moving forward than yes. Botw and totk are piss poor games for many reasons. The classic zeldas are remembered fondly for a reason
@@Goosewitdajuice317 have you actually played BotW & TotK? i have hundreds of hours on both of them, and i can testify they are not "piss poor" games. Care to state your "many reasons". sir?
@@H-TownGamer The stories in each game aren't lackluster. There are just design issues in how they told them. The items are still there, they're just implemented in a different way.
@@PGnumbaONE that is true however it does affect the story. Or at least how it’s perceived. The story suffers
I will start saying I LOVED Botw. And while it definitely doesn't beat Oot or AlttP. It's still in my top 5 Zelda games. And I really disliked Skyward Sword on its release. Botw definitely feels like a Zelda game reimagined with the only thing I feel it lacked were the dungeons as most agree.
But then Totk came and it was mostly a huge disappointment. Besides the bosses which were definitely a step up from Botw (I loved the Molgera callback with Colgera), I would argue the dungeons themselves are worse. Music was worse, exploration was worse, and about everything I disliked about botw they doubled down on it and even ruined some of its original stuff.
The recent information is really concerning because I always thought Botw was going to be a "one thing reimagination". Totk lazily copies over its structure with little novelty. Which DOES not work in reiteration. All the points you mentioned here like the items I forgave it in botw because it was a massive world and their real first try of it.But seeing the direction they are going with totk it's just baffling and very concerning they won't ever really understand what made the older games timeless.
Been replaying twilight princess after years and just realised how much the new games are lacking.
And a big thing that the new 2 games are also lacking is an ARC.
Almost all characters in both games are the same in the end as they were before.
Besides a copy paste arc that they are now awakened sages or something.
You know what … I didn’t like the last two either.
I agree. For me new zelda's should have at least 8 different, long dungeons to compensate their size. Or I will even go further: just make new zelda with no hyrule field, and 25 dungeons! :D
Yea, no thanks, not interested in another Skyward Sword
@@devilrider39000000 the biggest problems with skyward sword are motion controls, flying parts, too much hand holding, atmosphere, aesthetics, some plot parts and characters. Not dungeons like structure. :) Actually everything related to dungeons would be great in this game, if not the rest.
@kordianronnberg9090 For me everything u said including the dungeons were the problem. The game was too dungeon heavy. It's literally dungeon dungeon dungeon. Even the outside areas are just linear paths meant to funnel the player from dungeon to dungeon, making them outdoor extensions of the dungeons.
This is just like Blizzards classic wow "you think you do but you dont". game developers seem to get this god complex thinking they know best when they dont. the phrase "the customer is always right" has never been more true
I feel saying these games aren't zelda games is a limited view of what a zelda game is.
There's three distinct styles of a zelda game.
If Mario became a gta game where he is robbing cars is that a different Mario game or is that not Mario? At a certain point yes it does lose its identity. Now BOTW and TOK may completely not lost all of Zelda it lost like 90% which is so much he’s right that’s it’s basically not Zelda at this point in time.
@@H-TownGamer i feel your point with the mario gta thing. But i dont feel this applies. Breath of the wild shattered the formula ocarina established and brought zelda down to the core of its spirit.
I strongly disagree that this game lost its identity. It proudly displays what zelda is all about. Id argue....if breath of the wild lost its identity, than so did skyward sword but for the opposite reason.
@@goldenlotus3046 I think Skyward suffers a lot but I give it credit because it is a Zelda game at heart or has the core values. Usually involving
1. Complex Dungeons
2. Dungeon items
3. Good story
4. Music
These are core values of what Zelda is BOTW/ TOK does these poorly or are completely absent. That is enough to almost not being Zelda games. There is a reason many fans don’t consider these last two Zelda games. I don’t either tbh.
It’s not Zelda right now or at least what made Zelda unique and special.
What do you consider the 3 distinct styles?
@@robertgamer3112 2D Zelda, Open World 3D Zelda, Linear 3D Zelda
I think you’re confusing gimmicks with mechanics. Wii motion was a gimmick. Sailing in the ocean was a game mechanic.
It is a gimmick. Because that is the selling point and what made that game unique.
Every zelda game has had a gimmick
2 - side scroll FF style
Alttp- dark world
Oracles- had connects between the two versions
4 sword - 4 links
Minish cap - smol and various mechanics around that
OoT - past and present
Mm - always on a timer (but can be slowed or altered which fits into the gameplay)
Ww - the ocean sailing
TP - wolf link. (Motion control doesnt count here cause they were bare bones and the game was made for gamecube)
SS - flying and motion controlls
Some mechanics can be gimmicks contextually if they're not integrated permanently going forward
I respect peoples opinion on this. As for me, this is precisely why i get on board on zelda because of botw and totk. I like open world. I dont like the OG zelda. I will not buy a linear zelda. For those who love it, then its good. But its just not my cup of tea.
By the end of the day, its your money, your choice. Buy what you want.
Well then you truly are a NOOB and you really don’t in truth deserve to talk about the situation that Zelda is in I wonder how old you are you must be young? especially if Breath and tears the SO NOT VERY ZELDA GAMES were your first hmm? 🤨
Sorry I have to be absolutely RUDE and HURSH because I’ve been with this series since Links awakening on the colorless game boy pre timeline split and post timeline split after OOT I’ve played more Zelda games that you will ever come to understand NOOBE
And breath and tears are OK very Overrated compared to what Nintendo has done with the past especially from a more connected lore story and dungeon stand point
And DONT EVEN GET ME F STARTED On LINKS BARELY NO EMOTIONS In Breath and tears by far links worst adoption so far compared to his more lively emotions of Wind WAKER skyward sword and Twilight Princess
Like WTF WAS NINTENDO SMOKING WiTH THAT hmm? 🤨
Posts like this are why I will never be against gatekeeping
Then are you even really a Zelda fan if you hate over 90% of the entire series?
@@ProjectionProjects2.7182 did i ever said im a zelda fan?
@@kenk5269 touché
Honestly i agree 100% these two new aren't zelda games
Yeah they barely are I don’t consider them Zelda games
You’re mom aren’t original 🗿🤡💩
The only thing In the Open world zelda era that i truly enjoyed is the fact that zelda is so thicc and her booty is perfection
prime example of whats wrong with the zelda community
SMH
Bro is down bad. 😂
@@Jammermt99 yes because not enjoying and criticizing the boring, empty modern zelda open-world games makes you a bad person lol
Does Zelda 1 on the NES fell "like a Zelda game" to you? Just curious, because it and BotW have a lot in common. You could even consider BotW the first true sequel to Zelda 1 in terms of how you explore the world.
I really don't like Zelda 1 anymore, but I do still enjoy BotW despite it's flaws. But I've said many places that due to its flaws, what became known as TotK couldn't just be BotW2, and it was. I'm hoping BtoW3 will actually merge that old Zelda 1 freedom, with the modern aspects of secrets being observable making me want to seek them out, with the memorable dungeon designs started back in A Link to the Past.
I see more in common between Zelda 1 and A Link to the Past than between Zelda 1 and Breath of the Wild.
Zelda 1 may have aged badly, but the "essence" is still there. Breath of the Wild just doesn't have it.
"BotW is just like Zelda 1!"
How in the world was Aonuma so successful at gaslighting the Zelda fanbase into actually believing this??
BotW is nothing like Zelda 1
Not to sound like that elitist snob. On the topic of difficulty, the Zelda games in itself and the final bosses have never been difficult. Ever.
Please repeat what i said in the video
Because im pretty sure i said. "Im not asking for souls like bosses"
I just feel that its terrible design when the final fight is the easiest in the whole game. It looks epic but feels unearned
@@excalligatorreviews4088 you're wishing for difficulty in a franchise that hardly has difficulty is all i'm saying.
In your video you mention OOT ganon and new players probably being challenged by it. 10 year old me figured out you could roll between his legs no problem.
I'm not trying to diss you or start an argument.
Just saying that Zelda has never been difficult so i think you should not look for it in this franchise.
The og zelda was kinda challenging though.
Aonuma is right. It really doesn't make any sense for a AAA game franchise to return to the classic limited format. BotW sales are an example of this.
Sales dont mean success from a consumer perspective
There are plenty of games that sold well but were trash. Starfield is the recent example
The thing is. Breath and tears are good "games" i never said they were bad games. I said they are not good zelda games. And by limited, you are talking about the open world aspect. Again the first thing i said is that the open world is NOT the reason fans want a traditional zelda game. Its the items, story delivery, and dungeons.
@@excalligatorreviews4088 Unlike Starfield, Zelda BotW was the game with the most perfect ratings in history. All the problems mentioned in the video can be solved in an open world game. Now, that "fans want a classic Zelda" seems more like a hoax than a fact to me.
You are conflating everything i said innthe video with open world / non linear
You can have an open world and still have everything i mentioned. Every other open world game does this. So why cant zelda?
@@excalligatorreviews4088 "Every other open world does this"? Which? In the last 10 years, only Metal Gear V, Zelda and MAYBE RDR2 have managed to actually be good open world games.
@@LucianeTorres-vc9oi ah I found you again my young soul. Sad really. A pathetic form you show. My sweet sweet Luciane. Thy shall forever be a fool if thine does not play moe games. Maybe elden ring… A great example on how one can make things open, and free. Yet not lose the core experience.
Sales do mean things and so do reviews but not always.
It is the order of things. When Nintendo parts the clouds and gifts us there magnum opus, we all begin to blow our loads. We are blinded by love and nostalgia. Only then do we far later realize this shit kind of sucked.
But if no one critiques it, then nothing will get better. So we must critique the things it lacks in order for the artist who created the thing knows where he can improve. If all you want is to suckle the titty, then suckle the titty little one. Meanwhile ill search the whole body, every crevice, searching for them fuckin deku nuts. I want something more.
All i hope is that they keep making games like botw/totk
I hope they never go back to BOTW and TOK
@@H-TownGamer Keep dreaming kid 🗿🐽
🙏
@H-TownGamer Different people prefer different styles of games, its just preferences. Play what u like, and let others enjoy the games that they like.
@@devilrider39000000 Well can’t really play whatI like when they don’t make it anymore. I’ve always liked Zelda well it’s not really Zelda anymore atleast TOK/BOTW. They said they hope it comes back I said I hope it doesn’t there’s not much more too it than that
They'll find a happy medium. But here's the thing, exploring TOTK is much more rewarding than any other zelda world. Twilight princess for instance had a large empty, boring Hyrule (good dungeons but a terrible open world)
Ive recently been playing older Zeldas and while more focused Dungeons are great, everything else(unskippable dialogue, busy work between dungeons are objectively worse)
I do miss the green tunic but the world of tears is rewarding for me to explore. The story in BOTW and Tears is garbage, but not being constrained by having to devote alot of time to story like the awful one of SS made the trade-off worth it imho.
Another thing that people don't seem to appreciate is the lead up to dungeons in TOTK because they're dungeon-like in and of themselves. Im playing SS currently and i like the dungeons but the constant backtracking and copious amount of (wholly uninteresting )exposition is such a mood killer.
One other thing is tears has difficulty in its combat if you play low hearts. A stray arrow or an enemy off screen can one shot you. Twilight princess for example had cool techniques to learn but when giant bosses take a half heart every hit it goes to waste.
I don't know what kind of Mandela effect it is that seems to be affecting TH-camrs, but the only Zeldas where story was integral to the plot and "happened" as you played were Twilight Princess, Skyward sword and all of the adult timeline games. So basically like 5 games.
Of these 5 games, TP had the crappiest and less impactful delivery of story (in recent memory). Not to mention, it made the least sense. Because Link's quest wasn't driven by the narrative. He was just an accessory to Midna. This time around there was no sealed magical door or missing magical bridge to complete the quest. There was just a little imp telling you that you were not good enough. In fact you even get to Zelda early on and kind of just leave her there. Not to mention, Ganondorf comes out of nowhere, just because.
Now Skyward Sword did good with the narrative. It's just that nobody played it and therefore isn't memorable enough, even compared to games where the story wasn't even an integral part.
WW, PH and SP had way more compelling and impactful stories. The quest was narrative driven. You had to complete it. There was no questioning it. In WW's case even, the quest would take on different turns kind of like in OoT and MM and it was always reasonable.
But those are just 3 times where the story was better, out of like over 20 games. In most games story delivery is exactly the same as in BotW and TotK. You get to a new area, you get some story. You complete the area, you get some more. You advance to the mid point of the main quest, you get a cutscene and a new motivation. You get to the end, you get the last bits.
Even the most beloved 3D Zeldas are like this. Oot and MM are like this. I'm not a fan of memories in BotW and TotK, but they are optional side quests to get more story. Just like how the bombers notebook worked in MM. If anything, TotK is probably the 5th most story focused game in the series.
Link's quest in TP was to bring back his friends after being kidnapped. He then got involved in Hyrule's affairs via Midna, who started off a bitch, but slowly came to like Link. Out of any side kick, Midna is the most memorable, most developed and has the most personality. Now thats not to say the over all story is good. It definatly had dark themes of Zant walkin in and killing all of zelda's guards and her giving up to save her people. But Zelda wasn't focused on as much. Which led to issues with her and Link's chemistry. A weak story over all but had good points.
SS had alot of very good narrative points to it, but the flow was a bit off. Not to mention the revisiting of 3 zones 3 times over. It was the most linear in terms of world layout, and repetitive in terms of progression. But it had the chemistry that TP didnt have.
WW and OoT have the best mix of narrative and flow. Both set you off on paths, which lead to larger adventures and eventually become fully realized missions to stop Gannondorf. OoT is dated now and does miss out on narrative building, but Its more of a fault of the tech at the time. If remade, Im sure it could be just as fleshed out as the manga was. even then, it still has enough beats to get you the full Idea of what is happening. WW doesnt really need changing. Link and Zelda have developments while she is Tetra, he had his personal goal to save his sister, which turns into saving zelda, and he has his companion the Red lion. Who was a great companion next to Midna.
PH was ok as a spin off. as was ST
Earlier Zelda games such as LttP / 4 swords were bare bones "save the kingdom / save zelda" because it was never much of a larger scope / world untill OoT mixed up the formula with the story narrative, but kept all of the integral parts of the main core of Zelda games. Though I would say there are some decent beats with the Oracle games.
Twilight princess was THE Zelda game experience. What are you even talking about. It was miles away from being crappy.
@karinmaehara8717 I was just talking about the story. Now if you want my overall opinion, I don't think it's up there among the greats, but it's not the worst Zelda either.
But you have to concede at least, narrative wise, it made no sense and it's not the best example of a great Zelda story.
First of all, it's not even about Zelda, or rescuing her. Link lost his purpose Halfway through and became Midna's lapdog, literally, progressing through the story when it pleased her. I know that it fulfilled a certain demographics' fantasy, but I'm just talking story here. It was lackluster at best.
I hear you but I have to agree with him twlight and a much more heartfelt story, weather it’s good or not it’s was epic, emotional and had climatic moments. Same for OOT and MM. WW was not bad just too kiddy for me. However they had a better story than what BOTW and TOK have. It’s barely even a story and told in a very repetitive and broken way
@@sergiobricenos plenty of Zelda games that barely feature her or don't at all. I don't think her having a slightly diminished role is an automatic negative.
You’re crazy. I’m 50 years old and have loved Zelda from the start. The last two are the best in the series.
LOL does his opinion offend you Pronatalist?
Your crazy to think people care what you think
They really aren't. They have better exploration but that's it
Um actually energy is high with this one.
Fans don’t define Zelda, Nintendo does.
Ah yes. The argument that the series isn't made for the fans of said series. And people wonder *why* fans are upset.
But arent fans financing the companys to make these Games? They should at least consider this fact.
I think you’re missing the point. Games are a creative endeavor. Any artist worth their salt makes what they feel is right. Feedback aside, there’s enough in Botw/Totk to merit its value. And upset is a strong word. Disappointed sure, but I think there’s worse things to get upset about.
By that logic, they should just make the next Zelda game a reskin of pong
To me this is like comparing the original assassin's Creed to Black flag. Black flag deviated from The originals formula and was better in every way. I believe that's what the series has done.
While I enjoyed black flag, alot of the systems from older assassin's creed games were watered down and not as important. Namely the parkour and stealth. The city / town segments were pretty much instanced out and not a full open world. And the islands themselves were not open. The towns were bland and the islands were linear paths similar to skyward swords locals.
The only thing that made black flag good was the naval combat.
Dungeons are awful. Botw was better than totk because they weren’t around
So why play zelda games when that is the main selling point of the series?
Thats like saying you dont like dinosaurs. So remove them from jurassic park.
My guy they literally tried and failed to bring back dungeons because they were so good
Saying BotW/Totk are not Zelda is like saying Oot is not a Zelda game. If you look at Zelda games that came out before Oot you can see that they changed a lot. Botw has actually more in common with the first Zelda since you can go where ever you want you could even enter dungeouns out of order. Just like Oot, BotW introduced a new Zelda formula that appealed to a big audience. It is something new you will have to get used to since these are the future Zelda's
Except...in the first Zelda, you were restricted as to where to go until you got a certain item. It was also a dungeon-focused game, the overworld was just there to connect one dungeon to the next. Also, it had more enemy types than BotW, actual dungeon items, complex labyrinths, and good overworld music. It's not the same. Also, OoT reused ALttP's formula, just in 3D. BotW literally changed the entire formula, removing the MOST important aspect of a Zelda game--the dungeons--in favor of open world exploration, which was NEVER the intent behind the series.
@@rocknatex5013 i think your problem is change instead of lacking quality. Being restricted to a specific area is a personal preference not everyone likes that. Also going from 2D to 3D is a very big change Super Mario 64 is very different from Super Mario World
Not really. OoT is more like Alttp than botw is to original. Original had dungeon crawls. It had the unique flavorful items. And while there are many world secrets to find which every zelda game has, there is an optimal way to do the game as many dungeons can not be access or finished without items of other dungeons. Its not a fully open world game.
There are games you can go anywhere you want whenever you want within the unlocked sections via progression. Then there are games that say fuck it go wherever.
Oot and TP. Ect are part of that first catagory. While botw is of the latter.
The one and ONLY thing Botw/Totk has in common with Zelda 1 is being open world. And even then, Zelda 1 had certain areas and dungeons locked behind key items. It didn't let you go EVERYWHERE from the start. Also, beating all the dungeons was required to beat the game. Zelda 1 has far more in common with the rest of the series than Botw/Totk.
@@nicke5801 Zelda 1 also had permanent item progression. Once you get an item, it's a permanent part of your combat repertoire that changes how you approach combat and makes certain difficult enemies easier. Each item has a unique function in both combat and in puzzle solving. You don't get all the items right away either, you have to earn them by finding their secret locations or searching dungeons.
Zelda 1 is much more similar to OOT than it is to BotW. BotW is essentially like they undid all the things they learned over the past 35 years AND they also abandoned core features of the original idea to be replaced with modern mobile-game-esq design principles. Koroks and korok seeds are annoyingly close to an arbitrary in-game currency you earn from completing stupidly short and easy mobile-game puzzles to buy pointless cosmetics. Shrines may as well be Angry Birds levels with how short, easy, and disconnected from everything they are.
Might as well make a video about how cars just aren't cars anymore, let's all start driving Ford Model T's again.
Its more like using an electric car instead of a gas car.
With ToTK we are in the gaming equivalent of driving Model Ts. Decades of innovation flushed down the toilet to follow the open world trend
That's one of the most idiotic comments I've ever read on TH-cam. Congrats, l guess? 🫠
@@Lucrei. congrats on being a a troll who has no substance to your posts.
@@jdudefun1755 the irony!
While I loved tears of the kingdom, I agree with almost all of your points. But I don't have too much hope.
No, YOU are wrong! Aonuma was right to criticize all your low standards. Tears of the Kingdom is the best designed Zelda game we ever had since Majora’s mask. This isn’t the right time for you all to take us back to low quality skyward sword, and twilight princess. The last time the Nintendo Development team listened to the fans was when they changed projects from a true wind Waker sequel to the mediocre twilight princess.
Majora's Mask and Ocarina of Time was better lol.
@@ProjectionProjects2.7182 No, Tears of the Jews surpassed BOTH Majora and Ocarina. You’re just not smart enough to appreciate TotK.
Ah yes WE have low standards because we don't want a generic open world sandbox game. WE have low standards for wanting good writing, engaging gameplay and fun level design. Get real kid. Maybe actually play a Zelda game made before BoTW. I'd suggest actually trying Twilight Princess. That game is the second best in the franchise beside Ocarina of Time
@@connorharnage6697 I played all Zelda games, biiiiiiccchhh. What you are demanding is brainless spoon-fed storytelling when I prefer a more natural, poetic and fragmented Christopher Nolan-like approach such as Tears of the Jews. Biiiiicccchhhh
@@DanielMazahreh Ah yes spoon fed as in actually having a story and not just a series of flashbacks to things that WOULD have been fun to actually play. Also calling someone a bitch doesn't make you right. It just makes you annoying
praying for you downfall lil bro😭🙏🏻
Wind Waker sucks compared to both botw & totk
@@12feettall6 You and you’re minority nostalgic SUCKS 🗿🐽
Yet it has better dungeons, gameplay, story and (one of the few Zelda games that does this better than BoTW) exploration
Incorrect, WW is a classic.
preach! I agree!