@@robertakerman3570 John, Paul, George, Brian ? had replaced Best with Ringo *but* EMI still went with a session drummer for the Love Me Do album release(Ringo on tambourine) recorded version. The single Parlophone release is all Ringo. Pete's drumming was recorded 1st but never 'officially' released. It's all available to listen to now.
I met Pete in Warren, Michigan at a Beatle Fest thing. Around 1990. A perfect gentleman, and very personable with us. I had him sign my original 1964 "Meet The Beatles" LP cover.
And we all know from the lads that Ringo sat in for Pete in Hamburg and the threesome KNEW from the visceral feel and pulse Ringo's drumming how good it sounded and felt. So hiring Ringo was a no brainer. Paul, George, and John knew each other for years and hired Pete as a hired gun in the 11th hour so they could play in Germany. How attached and loyal they were to Pete, well, I leave this perspective to historians. But they loved Ringo. We know the rest of the story.
They met Ringo in Hamburg in 1960, and saw him out on the road in Liverpool, but he didn't sit in with them until once at the end of December 1961 - when Pete asked him to sit in for him - and 3 times in early 62. Yes, Pete joined at the 11th hour, but the four Beatles - once Stuart had left - were untouchable in Liverpool and Hamburg. George became friendly with Ringo in early 62, and once George Martin had made these comments to Brian, they had to make a business decision for their future. Ringo wasn't the first drummer to be asked to replace Pete. That was Bobby Graham. They then asked Ritchie Galvin. Both said no. They then asked Ringo who said yes, then a couple of days later Brian asked Johnny Hutchinson. He said no, and Ringo said yes. George says he was responsible for convincing John and Paul to agree to Ringo joining. It did work. It wouldn't have worked the same way with any other drummer. He was the perfect drummer for the Beatles.
@@BrightmoonLiverpool Hi David. Pete says he only called out twice. This was corroborated in another documentary I watched which stated that Ringo sat in for Pete on two dates, the first in December of '61; and the second in March of '62. The March gig was a Lunch-Dinner doubleheader (I believe at The Cavern), where the band had several hours off in between the two "gigs", and they hung out and ate/drank during that break. One of the dates was due to illness, and the other was due to a minor court appearance requirement Pete had to attend. So, I have two questions for you. Are you counting the March doubleheader as "two gigs" that Ringo filled in for Pete? And if so, what is the other early '62 gig you're referring to?
Great insight into some of the subtleties of the situation which many commentators overlook. Dave has empathy for all the participants, and this allows him to understand not just what happened, but why. Presented cogently, realistically and dramatically - again, not qualities all Beatles biographers possess. Classy.
Thank you so much. I am a historian and I follow the evidence, which isn't always easy with the Beatles! I try to be objective too, so thank you for your kind comments.
It wasn’t just about Pete’s abilities to play drums. According to John, Paul and George it was his personality which did not fit into the group. Still I think Ringo was also the better choice as a drummer anyway if you listen to his ability to translate the ideas of his bandmates. The Beatles became more colorful with him musically and in terms of charisma of the band.
I think that once George Martin had made those comments to Brian, relayed to John, Paul and George, they had to decide if they should replace him. That's when those other factors came into it, like did he fit in etc. Looking back, I agree that bringing Ringo in was the perfect way to progress to the next stage, when his versatility and experience helped him contribute significantly to the Beatles sound, as well as with his personality too.
@@BrightmoonLiverpool Another item possibly was the obvious interference of Mona Best who didn't notice that her acting (probably involuntarily) wasn't particularly helpful for Pete's standing within the band as the others grew tired of it.
@@JoeAlexey I think that is how the 3 Beatles persuaded Brian to go along with it. He was opposed to the change and had to be convinced to proceed. I reckon this is how they did. Would have helped Brian for sure.
@davidtuer5825 In hindsight, you're absolutely right, and you can not argue with the decision based upon what we know. However, none of that was known to John, Paul, or George when they made the decision. The joys of hindsight! It all worked out perfectly.
Great Story David, I definitely need to see more of your videos. As an American, I was immersed into the "whole thing" when my parents sent me to England in the Summer of 1962 to live in London with my Grandmother....from Aug 1962 to Oct 1963 I lived in East Ham/Forest Gate and started listening to music... I sailed on the Queen Mary back to the U.S. and into NYC Harbour in Oct 1963 as a 13 year old with two Beatles 45rpm records in hand...I experienced this transformation of my own development and that of the Beatles first hand. No One in my school knew who I was talking about (Junior HS in Washington DC)..... Thank you... Now I am curious as to the other auditions that they did besides Deca..
David, 50+ years later I am now a professional picture framer (45 years) as an occupational hazard, I must comment on the LP framing behind you. Although traditional and gold it is very generic and not the best choice in design for the subject matter.... just sayin' - As the owner of the most award winning frame shop in the U.S. and World, I might suggest some alternative framing presentations. Wish I still had those 4 cut - British 45's to frame, but I left them to my sister at some point in time, and they are gone. Thanks for listening and for your professionalism. John
Thank you - the framed records were a present from my wife. Here is some trivia for you. Which early Beatles drummer was a professional picture framer? 🤔
@@BrightmoonLiverpool It would be amazing if there was recordings of that EMI audition with Pete like the Decca Tapes which made it to vinyl. I have heard " Love Me Do " with Pete but I don't think I've heard other tracks which was agreed they were going to try like " PS I love you " , " Besame Mucho " and others.
@@KC-wi4gh "Besame Mucho" with Pete from this day at EMI is also on Anthology 1, and he sounds totally solid on it. Had that been the song they were going to use for their first single, Martin would not have requested a session drummer. It was only because Pete struggled with the sudden arrangement change on, "Love Me Do", that Martin gave him the quick hook and said he'd use a session pro uncredited on the record. Martin didn't want to waste time or money, and using session musicians was no big deal at all to him, it happened all the time. But the fair thing to do, given he ambushed the boys with the new arrangement that day, would've been to let them go home so that Pete, and Paul with the vocals he struggled on, could practice the new arrangement. Furthermore, I suspect the particular take Martin provided to the Anthology project of, "Love Me Do", under the pretense it was the only take still in existence, is not in fact the only one he found. And that other takes showed Pete doing much better. Still perhaps not up to Martin's fussy standards, okay. But much better than what he did "find". Umm, don't hold your breath for any more being released. And similarly, Paul McCartney outbid everyone at auction years back for recordings of The Beatles with Pete on drums playing live at The Cavern Club. He's never released them. I suspect Pete sounded great, and Paul doesn't want anyone to hear that. I forget his name, but a member of a rival band back then said, *"You've never heard The Beatles if you didn't see them at The Cavern with Pete Best."*
I met Pete in Liverpool in 1994. I was impressed with what a personable and genuinely nice guy he was. I hope that he is pleased with his place in history; I would be.
Once he got over the massive disappointment, he has been a very happy and contented man for many decades. His family is the most important thing to him, and he is proud of what he achieved and rightly so. He is an absolute gentleman, but is also a very funny guy to hang out with! Great sense of humour.
According to Lewisohn and other accounts, Lennon, McCartney and Harrison had been looking to get rid of Pete for some time. They had already been told by both Bert Kampfert and Decca that Pete wasn't adequate as a drummer. I know it's odd that they kept him on for so long, but his exit had to do with more than just George Martin.
Unfortunately, a lot of that is hearsay and revisionism. Kaempfert didn't have a problem apart from the fact that he didn't ever use dominant drums on records. So he asked Pete only to play his snare and cymbals. Listen to Pete on My Bonnie. His drumming, timing, speed of drum rolls is superb. There is no evidence to say that they wanted to get rid of Pete before this day. I'm afraid Mark Lewisohn’s aim was to say it was always going to be Ringo and they were always going to replace Pete. But there is no evidence for that, apart from comments years later. I also found something no one else did, which was that John, Paul, George and Pete signed a legal partnership agreement at the end of 1961. Not the actions of a group who wanted rid of their drummer. The only evidence that exists is that after June 6th, 1962, the decision was taken to start looking for a replacement drummer and only once they had received the contract at the end of July did they start that process.
Why keep repeating this nonsense, you have the real story here. Record producers didn't care about musicianship, they just used session muso's to sell an image. Look up "The Wrecking Crew"
@ChrisR Yes according to drummers I interviewed. Not many drummers can do that kind of drum roll at that speed consistently. One of George Martin's criticisms of Ringo was that he couldn't do a good drum roll. Didn't stop Ringo being a great drummer.
@@BrightmoonLiverpool as a life long drummer i can’t find anything of merit to say about Best. He wasn’t a keeper!everyone thought the same.playing in a smelly noisey club is miles from working in studio.The drummer must be flawless. If he had had any talent, he would have parlayed his fame for at least a couple of years, and made some serious money of it but even with that going for him, he was a flop. No shame in that he still cashed out 30 or 40 years later.
This is one of the most interesting video i have ever found in internet. In my opinion, nobody knows the truth . However, all the Beatles fans , love both Pete and Ringo ; i would love , before will be too late , to see them together ,with Paul . Even for few songs , but TOGETHER !
@@BrightmoonLiverpool Maybe ( maybe) Ringo would be more available towards Pete, talking about Paul.....i'm afraid that you are right . We have a proverb in Italy that says " time can heal many wounds " ..... so....Let 's keep dreaming....never know!!! 👋🐾🐾
@@johnburns4017 Actually, one VERY impressive thing George Martin did was tell them to speed up "Please Please Me", which was originally done at just a very laid back, ballad sort of tempo. They played it for him and he told them to rework it - make it much faster - which they did, thus creating a real rock'n'roll classic and, importantly for the Beatles - a HIT. :)
@johnburns4017 As George Martin has admitted, it was their personalities that impressed him more than their music yet. Love Me Do wasn't a great song, but was catchy. What he did with Please Please Me made the song, so he had good instincts.
Ken Townsend does not paint it that way. Martin had near zero experience of pop/rocks bands. His attempts at pop record were dire. He probably did not know a good one from bad one. This unknown band turns up with a drummer not good enough for studio work, then turns up again with another drummer not good enough for studio work. Despite, Martin allowed them to record their own compositions on the first recording. Andy White the session drummer on _Love Me Do_ and other songs, said that was unheard of in those days. The first release, one of their own compositions, was bland to say the least. Group and producer were not impressive for sure.
Agreed. Let's be honest. You only have listen to the Decca audition to know Pete Best was not a good drummer. When Ringo first played with The Beatles didn't Paul say something like "this was when we realised what had been missing."
@kingstumble Paul said that many years later, but what else would you expect him to say? Unfortunately, Paul is one of the most unreliable Beatles eyewitnesses and has rewritten Beatles history many times over the years. What is it at Decca that you don't like? And if we were to judge the Beatles on the Decca audition, you'd never let Paul sing again and replace George as lead guitarist! John's vocals are shocking, but George is the best singer on the day.
@@BrightmoonLiverpool As a gigging bass player for many years I know a bit about drumming and drummers. Most songs are in 4/4 time which requires the drummer in a rock band to play a regular four to the bar with a heavily accented two and four( or on the two and three if it's in 3/4 time.) Pete either didn't or couldn't do that. It was as if he was accompanying a piano player at a local pub.
@kingstumble That is strange because the one thing the other Beatles said was that he could play a 4 beats to the bar nonstop and very well too. I am a guitarist/ bass player/ keyboard player (but not a drummer) and played with many drummers over the last 40 or more years, and you know very quickly when someone can't keep time. Musicians of the quality of John, Paul, and George would not take 2 years, would they? They would have soon gotten rid and had many opportunities to do so. But they never did. That tells me that he was a really good, reliable drummer. In the next video, I will show a clip from Paul saying that Pete was a really good drummer. He said that more than once too.
*Drummers at EMI:* *6 June 1962:* Pete Best. *4 Sept 1962:* Ringo Starr. *11 Sept 1962:* Andy White. _On my first visit in September [4 Sept] we just ran through some tracks for George Martin. We even did "Please Please Me". I remember that, because while we were recording it I was playing the bass drum with a maraca in one hand and a tambourine in the other. I think it's because of that that George Martin used Andy White, the_ *_"professional",_* _when we went down a week later [11 Sept] to record "Love Me Do"._ - Ringo Star _"George [Martin]_ *_got his way_* _and Ringo didn't drum on the first single [11 Sept]. He only played tambourine."_ _"Ringo, at that point, was not that steady on time"._ - Paul McCartney Engineer Geoff Emerick in his book on page 46 stated that George Martin, Norman Smith and *Paul McCartney* were all dissatisfied with Ringo's timekeeping on 4 Sept. McCartney *got his way* as well. Ringo's poor performance on 4 Sept led to sessions drummer Andy White being brought in for the _'Love Me Do'_ 11 Sept session. _"I didn't rate Ringo very highly. He couldn't do a roll - and still can't - though he's improved a lot since. Andy was the kind of drummer I needed. Ringo was only used to ballrooms. It was obviously best to use someone with experience"._ - George Martin _[Ringo] lacked drive._ - Ron Richards _"He [Ringo] didn't have quite enough push"_ - Engineer Norman Smith Ringo was impressed with _professional_ Andy White, buying a Ludwig drum set, the make White used.
Thanks for this. Paul also said that at that time Ringo wasn't that steady on time but he became so good at it soon after. I think Ringo's story is a little unbelievable and used as an excuse because George Martin didn't use him. The irony is that, in the UK, Ringo's version from 4th September was released by mistake instead of Andy White's version from 11th September. So even though Ringo claimed he didn't drum on the first single, by mistake, he did! That master was destroyed to stop it from happening again.
@@BrightmoonLiverpool The Andy White version of _Love Me Do_ was the better of the two. His has the tambourine played by Ringo and the superior Ludwig drums. Pete's version was hampered by his battered appalling drum kit. By mistake the Andy and Ringo versions were released all over the place. Different version on singles and LPs, in many different countries. Which master was destroyed?
@johnburns4017 I agree with you. Andy's version is brighter, slightly faster, and crisper. Ringo's tambourine definitely lifts it, too. Ringo's was the single released in the UK, but when the album was released in 63, it was White's version, and all subsequent releases were too. The master of Ringo's version was destroyed in late 63 to avoid the same mistake happening again.
@johnburns4017 yes, and when they did a 50th anniversary reissue of Love Me Do they released Ringo's version again by mistake (though I reckon it was a private joke), recalled them and reissued Andy White's!
Funny you should say that! Geoff Emerick, who ended up producing the Beatles many times, had kept the tapes and there was a legal battle a few years ago over who owns them, after Emerick died! Apple wanted them, of course, but I don't know the outcome. I reckon Apple now have them. So don't expect to hear them any time soon!
Norman Smith - became the singer Hurricane Smith and had chart success. Also produced 3 Pink Floyd albums including their first 2. Remarkable chap, who John Lennon nicknamed "Nicotine Norman" due to their shared smoking habit and ultimately "Normal Norman" due to Smith being modest and relatively quiet, yet supremely talented.
..and yet he didn't like them and Martin thought their songs were rubbish.They were signed because they were funny.This chimes in with Martin's previous recorded work.Comedy.Lucky git.
4:38 just a note to those who might be tempted to spot GLAD ALL OVER and assume it's the DC 5 song- It's actually a Carl Perkin's song but DID inspire the DC song they wrote because they simply liked the title!
Ron Richards sure did have a thing for drums, The Hollies had the best drum sound in 63/64 outside of the DC5 thanks to him. Not to mention more bass on Ron Richards Hollies recordings.
@stuartshire He could, because Andy White was spot on with his timing and feel for the song. Not complicated, but regular and that is what George Martin needed. Ringo's timing fluctuated, as all live drummers did. But he learned quickly and his timing became very dependable.
Love the Layers of the Onion you are able to peel back on the Pete Best Saga. He seems like a genuinely interesting dude, have you ever had him on your channel for an interview?
Pete is a great guy who I interviewed years ago for my first book. He liked what I did so much he wrote the foreword to it. He is a really nice guy and we have some great interviews with him to share sometime.
I see that at 2:50 a song which George Harrison was supposed to do was called "Glad All Over". That can't possibly be the same song that the Dave Clark 5 did. It must be some other song which I am not familiar with.
It wasn''t an audition, they'd already been signed. Mark Lewisohn lays out the sequence of events in quite a bit of detail in Tune In, a must read for anyone who really wants to understand the early lives and careers of the Beatles. As for why they recorded "Love Me Do," they HAD to record an original song -- Martin was under orders to record at least one Beatles original so that Ardmore & Beechwood (the publishing company associated with EMI) could get the publishing rights for Lennon & McCartney, and that's why the Beatles were fobbed off on Martin (who, though he was completely won over by the band later on, didn't start out enthusiastic). And lots of people had questioned Pete Best's role in the group -- Bert Kaempfert took away most of his kit when he recorded Tony Sheridan and the Beatles recording "My Bonnie," and Decca had also slammed Pete's performance in the New Year's Day audition. And there'd been a rift between Pete and the Beatles well before then -- "you were never raelly one of us, soft head."
Thanks for your comments and contributing to the debate. A few points to raise in response. Unfortunately, Mark Lewisohn was mistaken in Tune In, which I have and have studied. I also know Mark too, and I mean no disrespect. I trained in contract law and English law years ago, and I knew that he was mistaken. His evidence was a form used sometimes when groups were under contract. But there is nothing else to support the notion. In many interviews, all of the people who were there have confirmed it was an Artist Test, known as an audition. George Martin, Ron Richards, Ken Townsend, Norman Smith, Brian Epstein, John, Paul, George, and Pete too. All considered it to be an audition. I can understand anyone who is not legally trained to have misinterpreted what was found, and Mark can not be blamed for misunderstanding what happened because of some of the words used. George Martin sent Brian a draft contract (unsigned) which Brian signed on behalf of the Beatles. A contract only signed by 1 party is not valid yet. It only becomes legal when the other party signs. Ironically, the evidence to prove when this was done is in one of Mark's earlier books, the excellent Complete Beatles Chronicles. In there, he reproduced various letters that EMI issued around this time. This shows that George Martin didn't send off the contract to be signed until around 18th June. He could not sign it. This means that the contract only became valid then, some 2 weeks after the audition. I had this checked with a top lawyer in Liverpool to confirm my thoughts. So it was definitely only an audition. Ardmore and Beechwood wanted George Martin to record an original song, because they wanted to publish it and make money from that. They liked some of the demos from the Decca Audition. George Martin liked the harmonica on Love Me Do but nothing else stood out. Also, the Beatles were not fobbed off onto George Martin. That was mischief making from a disgruntled man! He wanted them to record How Do You Do It by Mitch Murray and it was only in September that George Martin relented and let them release Love Me Do, with Andy White the session drummer. As to your other points, Mark was painting a very negative view of Pete Best, which also isn't completely accurate. Bert Kaempfert didn't remove Best's drums because he was incompetent, it was because Pete was a rock n roll drummer. Listen to Kaempferts recordings and he never uses a heavy drum sound. He produced easy listening music known as schlager music, which had very light drums on the songs. He asked Pete to only play his snare and cymbals. And his drumming is excellent. That is also why they recorded a version of My Bonnie, an old Scottish folk song that kids learned in school. He wad no rock n roll man. As for Decca, Lewisohn found some obscure guy nobody had heard of before who was happy to slate Best's drumming. What he avoided was quoting the producer, Mike Smith, the most important person at the audition, who had no problem with Best's drumming. He had problems with Paul's vocals and George's lead guitar work! I will be doing a video on getting rid of Pete with all the evidence. As a historian, I gather all the evidence and present it. If you want the full story, then it is in my book, Finding the Fourth Beatle. All the evidence is there. Hope that all makes sense? Happy to answer any more questions.
@@BrightmoonLiverpool David, I saw the worksheet (or whatever it's called) for the lads Decca audition, and it listed all the Decca staffers working the session. Missing from that list was, Mark Savage. Strong evidence that he wasn't even there.
Unfortunately, there is a very strong bias against Best in Tune In and some myths perpetuated. The Beatles had a solid rock n roll sound that they had developed over there, but Bert Kaempfert preferred light entertainment, known as schlager music. That is why he picked an old Scottish folk song to record. So Kaempfert asked Pete to not play his rock n roll beat, and to only use his snare and hi-hat. That was the sound Kaempfert always used. But when you listen to what they recorded, Best's drumming is excellent.
Lewisohn is a professional writer and therefore writes about " facts " that are biased to what the Beatles fans want to read and thus certain episodes in the timeline that do not show the Beatles in a good light are twisted or entirely erased..Trust me there are scores of them!
I noticed "Glad All Over" on the list. That's a Dave Clark 5 song. I know the DC5 were around in 1962, but they didn't record the song until 1963. Hmm…
@@BrightmoonLiverpool I found the answer. Carl Perkins did a song by the same name in 1957. This is the song the list refers to. The Beatles recorded it at the BBC sessions.
Absolutely right, I was making that as an observation looking back. John, Paul, and George didn't know when they hired Ringo that it would work out as well as it did.
It was really cowardly how John, Paul and George handled the dismissal of Pete Best! After all Pete and his mother Mona Best did in promoting the group. It was such an evil betrayal and stab in the back! All John, Paul and George needed to do was treat Pete Best with respect and have a meeting with him and Manager Brian Epstein and explain to Pete that George Martin wasn't impressed with his Drumming. They could have still put Pete on salary until he became employed. All it took was a little "LOVE" which The Beatles always preached about.
You make some excellent points. John did say they were cowards, but it was worse than that. Best had spent 2 years building the Beatles and got them to that point, so it was worse than cowardly, it was cruel and selfish, and definitely lacked love, as you said.
Very interesting. Thanks Brightmoon. For McCartney and Lennon especially, getting a recording contract must have been their life's dream. I see them basically having no choice but to replace Pete. I haven't heard the story about other drummers being asked - were they all from Liverpool? I think Macca and Lennon knew for their sound they needed a Liverpool drummer who was in that same scene otherwise the dynamics wouldn't have worked - which was why Ringo was such a good pick. Maybe we don't give them enough credit at this early stage in their careers but In some ways The Beatles were ahead of the game in understanding the current trends in popular music - they probably understood it better than the studio techs at EMI
The other drummers were Bobby Graham from London and then Ritchie Galvin and Johnny Hutchinson from Liverpool. John, Paul, George and Pete were at their last chance of a record contract. If it meant dropping Pete then they felt they had no choice and you can't blame them.
@@BrightmoonLiverpool But it didn't mean they had no choice. The Beatles...with Pete as their drummer...were signed a month before they sacked Pete. They most certainly had the choice to retain him. The contract was not in jeopardy, and they knew that.
@@davidtuer5825 That's typical John being misleading with a half-truth. The part that is true is that the day The Beatles hired Pete Best, Pete was a relatively unknown drummer compared to Ringo. Ringo was the drummer for the top band in Liverpool, Rory Storm and The Hurricanes, and he had a very good reputation as a drummer. Pete, in contrast, had only begun drumming 8 months earlier, and for a much lesser known band called, The Black Jacks. So yes, if instead of hiring Pete Best in the summer of '60, The Beatles had hired Ringo, sure, they would've been very lucky to get him, based just off of reputation. Of course, that never would've happened. Because even if Ringo was available (which he was not), The Beatles were the worst band in Liverpool, and he would've had no interest in joining them. He was in demand and would've signed on with on with one of the other top bands. So yeah, John, you would've been lucky to have Ringo...at that point when you stunk, before you got Pete. But that's fantasy land, because Ringo wouldn't have given you the time of day. The REALITY of the situation was that The Beatles hired Pete, and went off to Hamburg. The German crowds were so loud and raucous they were drowning out The Beatles. And not in a good way, like during Beatlemania. No, these Hamburg crowds weren't loud in appreciation of The Beatles, they were just wild, period. So Pete decided something had to be done, and he invented the *"Atom Beat".* It was a thunderous style of drumming, which allowed the band to be heard, and which won over the crazy German crowds. The Beatles, with Pete's Atom Beat, gelled like they never had before, with 21 previous drummers. They quickly transformed from the worst band in Liverpool to the best band in Hamburg (and Liverpool 4 months later when they returned). In 1960, Ringo's band, Rory Storm and The Hurricanes, won the Mersey Beat "Greatest Band" year-end poll. The very next year, 1961, The Beatles won the poll. The Beatles were the hottest band in two cities, and Pete Best was their most popular member. Not just because of his signature Atom Beat -- which all the other drummers, including Ringo, tried to copy -- but also because Pete had leading man looks and the fans adored him like no other Beatle, and like no other musician in the Liverpool/Hamburg scene. Geoff Nugent of the rival Liverpool band, The Undertakers said, *"You'd see two or three girls around John, Paul, and George, and you'd see fifty around Pete. Pete Best put The Beatles on the map."* So when The Beatles replaced Pete with Ringo in the summer of '62, it's quite misleading to say, "we were lucky to get the bigger named drummer, Ringo", because at that point, Pete Best had for a long time been the bigger name. Both by virtue of being on the best band, and also by having revolutionized rock drumming in that era with the Atom Beat. Ringo was popular, no doubt. But no one was as popular as Pete, not even close. Why did they dump Pete, then? Well, here's what a contemporary drummer of Pete's said when he was asked in an interview what he thought of Pete's drumming: *"He was a genius. You could sit Pete Best on a drum kit and ask him to play for 19 hours and he'd put his head down and do it. He'd drum like a dream with real style and stamina all night long, and that really was The Beatles' sound, forget the guitars. I was amazed when they replaced him. I even thought about learning guitar so he could be the drummer in my band. The Beatles didn't hate Pete Best, but they didn't want to be outshone by their drummer. Ringo was a good drummer but he was more ordinary."* -- Chris Curtis, drummer for The Searchers, a great Liverpool band who scored a 1964 Top 3 Hit in the US charts with their classic, "Love Potion # 9". Chris saw Pete Best play many times in both Hamburg and Liverpool during Pete's two years as The Beatles' drummer. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That was very well done. Now maybe the Pete critics will shut up. I remember at the time everyone knew about the Beatles trying for a recording contract, but nobody knew how involved it all was. Many groups at the time used session drummers. Clem Cattini played for so many big names including the Kinks, the Yardbirds even Hermans Hermits. It wasn't that big a deal. Listening to this video I can understand the dilemma. Had George Martin recorded them immediately, Pete would probably still be in the band.Nobody at that time could really have foreseen the mega talent that the Beatles became.
Well said, thank you. Everyone was using session musicians, as did the Beatles with Andy White. Bobby Graham, the first drummer Brian asked to replace Pete, played on 1500 songs at least, and an estimated 50 #1 singles! Jimmy Page and John Paul Jones were among the busiest session musicians in the 60s before they formed Led Zeppelin. Clem Cattini was going to join them too! Everybody used session musicians, just as George Martin said to Brian.
If Martin said the contract will be in the post in two days time, so come down in a week for another session, Pete would have still been with them. No time to get another drummer.
Ringo was the only one for the Beatles, he was a perfect fit in that band. He is a musician who worked out what was needed for each song. At times it was very sparse, leaving out beats that were unnecessary. Other times, he drove the band with hard swing that lifted the song, to swing is a rare gift. Then there was the intricacies & fills that enhanced it all that stand out to this day. He was the greatest & only drummer to fill the drum chair, thankfully as it all turned out.
@@pinksax All the German girls went for Pete, so Howie Casey said. As did the girls at the Cavern. Where is this insular dour personality they talk of? Mark Lewisohn pushed this... _Pete never fitted in and was not a good drummer._ He skirted over Pete's amazing popularity with girls. *Pete was the most popular Beatle by far with fans.* But Mark needed work from Apple, so he did not upset the _Pete Best was a bad drummer_ apple cart. A highly embarrassing episode for _The Beatles,_ they wanted to dissolve and go away. Mark's book is brilliant. A masterful piece of work. The treatment of the Pete Best affair going along with what McCartney wanted, lets it down.
The evidence shows that Pete Best wasn't too bothered at the time, because he was immediately offered other drumming places which he turned down. Ultimately, he never became anyone's chosen drummer. My take on this, is that he was given the job to get the Hamburg bookings and was totally fine for live sessions in noisy clubs. But the evidence also shows that if Pete played a song more than once, you got different drumming each time, and he added flourishes where they weren't needed. He could play a drum set - he just didn't really 'get' what the drums were for in a vocal three guitars and a drum kit group. I also tend to think he wouldn't have stood there in front of Brian and not insisted he was given a reason for his sacking. Brian almost certainly told him, but his familiar whine was _'I don't know why I was sacked,'_ because it allowed him to make the _'I was cheated'_ and/or _'they were jealous'_ inferences. It's a shame he didn't just say _'Well, Ringo got the job and look what happened. He was just a better drummer than me.'_ It would probably have netted him more appearance fees. He likes to claim he didn't harbour any grudge, but he obviously did, because only he promoted the legend of being cheated and a victim of jealousy. He also claimed John would have fought for him if he'd been there with him when he got sacked. However, it was John who made the most damning criticism of him in interview. He's part of the history and he's an important part of it at that, albeit for maybe the wrong reasons. But he netted 7-figures out of 'Anthology' and rightly so. His own apocryphal version of the sacking story, however - and with some slight variations - remains the same. Ringo nailed it with a 'less is more' approach and an intuitive sense of timing. Pete lost it because he saw the kit as an improvising instrument, not a metronome. Ringo never did a notable drum solo without being pushed into it briefly for Abbey Road. Pete never did a notable drum track, because he was never intent on becoming a notable drummer.
Even as far in the distance as the Let It Be sessions, we can see Ringo basically did as he was told. With Ringo, it was as much his personality as his ability. Pete was toast as soon as the negative feedback came through from the 1.1.62 Decca audition.
Playing drums, particularly in a rock band, is about keeping good time. You can add flourishes, embellishments, and what have you, but you have to keep time and support the song. If you can't do that effectively, you're kinda useless.
I've heard some of those early recordings with Pete playing the drums, no offense to those PB fans but his playing was overall anemic. On the other hand, Ringo's technique was much stronger and way more developed. Ringo knew how to kick a band, he was much more musical with his grooves, accents, and fills throughout each song. Also, Ringo's time is impeccable. It was a no brainer to replace Pete, he was the weakest link by far!
_On my first visit in September [4 Sept] we just ran through some tracks for George Martin. We even did "Please Please Me". I remember that, because while we were recording it I was playing the bass drum with a maraca in one hand and a tambourine in the other. I think it's because of that that George Martin used Andy White, the_ *_"professional",_* _when we went down a week later [11 Sept] to record "Love Me Do"._ - Ringo Starr _"George [Martin] got his way and Ringo didn't drum on the first single [11 Sept]. He only played tambourine."_ - Paul McCartney Engineer Geoff Emerick in his book stating that George Martin, Norman Smith and *Paul McCartney* were all dissatisfied with Ringo's timekeeping on 4 Sept, his first appearance at the studio. McCartney got his way as well. Well Ringo was no better than Pete for sure.
@@johnburns4017 I respectfully disagree, this was a business decision - not musical. As much as I marvel at Paul's talent and love his music, he's known to not have the best memory. Also, Ringo has always stated and George Martin confirmed, Andy was used due to the studio already hiring him for the session prior to George Martin's knowledge of Pete being replaced by Ringo.
See # 2:35 This was a suggested MEDLEY, a combination of those three songs as one piece... not a "suggested melody". You need to get a hold of Gerry Marsden's autobiography to fill in some bits you are missing about those days and about Pete. Gerry was there.
One the most incisive Beatles videos I've ever seen...full and detailed explanation of why Pete was dropped from the (to be) greatest band in the history of popular music. Fascinating.
i got a question about the date George martin went to see them at the cavern. i thought this was in mind to record them for the first album and when that decision was made Pete best had already gone love me do had already been released and he thought they were great live as you say then obviously Ringo was playing for the band. Also when George Martin say if we make a record could be construed as if this arrangement is the final arrangement then he may have been thinking Pete wasn't up for the job. This particular part of their story is very cloudy, I'm not saying your right and what Mark Lewisohn discovered is wrong, there's a point where these two versions must meet and that's the cloudy bit Lol, i do love watching your vids dave and look forward to the next, and parts of the story like this of theirs is why we talk and talk about them still as well as what they eventually did .
As for the cloudy nature of this day, everyone apart from Mark Lewisohn in Tune In has said it was an artist test/ audition. He said they were under contract. They weren't. I went to the former top solicitor in Liverpool who explained it for me, clarifying what I knew, as I studied contract law many moons ago BB ( Before Beatles!!) This was definitely an artist test/ audition, and the confirmation is in Mark's earlier book, The Beatles Chronicles, where it shows the letter from George Martin to the execs to sign their half of the contract, and then he receives it back - it was around 18th June. So they were definitely not under contract. I knew working in an office for all those years would come in handy one day!! 😂
I saw a comment about the Pete Beat situation from George Martin. He clearly stated that he told Lennon-McCartney that what they did in their shows was their business, but he wanted a tighter and more competent drummer for the recording sessions. Martin said Lennon and Mac had already been thinking the same thing. Trey replaced Best with Ringo.
If you watch Part 2 of the story, there is a clip of George Martin talking about what happened. He spoke to Brian about his concerns about recording with a session drummer. Brian then told John, Paul and George.
I wonder if you would have had so many views if the title had read 'The Beatles EMI Audition 6th June 1962 at Abbey Road with George Martin (ps this clip does not contain any sounds at all from The Beatles EMI Audition 6th June 1962 at Abbey Road with George Martin).
Hi Doug, I have written several books on these early days, including Liddypool: Birthplace of the Beatles (now in 3rd edition), The Fab One Hundred and Four (2013) and, looking into these matters, Finding the Fourth Beatle (2018). Hoping to combine all of my research into one new book soon. You can get these books in our bookshop - link in description - or from my website www.davidabedford.com
Sorry, I had a few people asking for subtitles, so tried it, but with TH-cam adding there's too, seems to be pointless. Trying to please as many as possible, especially those where English is a second language.
Also, Ringo's 1st contract wasn't an equal partner thing and he felt for a LONG time as if he was on trial. When he had to duck out for tonsillitis at the height of Mania and Jimmy Nicol filled in he was desperately afraid they would "pull a Pete" on him....implying that the knew business is business. He also knew once they hit America and he became the most popular Beatle that J & P were not too thrilled as they were "been there done that" with Pete. They had played second fiddle in fan's eyes to Pete in Liverpool - Ringo knew that dynamic. ☮
@@Cosmo-Kramer A LOT of sources. I can't split the points up to specific sources but they include G Martin himself; HUNDREDS of books including the great Revolution In The Head by Ian MacDonald, all the Lewisohn and Babiuk books but more importantly I worked at Capitol in the 80s and as a Beatle geek I amassed a crapload of all the contracts (copies of course) going back to first try outs at EMI - why? Because all those points were part of contract re-negotiations. It's common knowledge Brian was a fu*k up - he was doing things with EMI and technically the Beatles weren't even signed at one point!! The Jimmy Nicol story alone when you read books is EYE OPENING about not only Jimmy's experience but how the Beatles and Brian dealt with stuff - pretty brutal which explains why Ringo ALWAYS carries that "andy white" chip on his shoulder. Ringo probably got word of the John and Jimmy pub crawling in the Netherlands literally crawling on the ground wasted at daybreak - all suppressed by the Press as this was height of Beatlemania - but John and Jimmy apparently got along pretty well and Ringo didn't want to let that happen hence the "pull a Pete" quip and him getting his ass to Australia to finish the tour....The most poignant scene being Ringo rejoined with Ringo AND Jimmy on the same balcony overlooking thousands of fans - you can see that on YT - and see in real time Jimmy getting the elbow. Brian woke his ass up at like 5AM when everybody was asleep and gave him a watch for thanks and put him on a jet before he could even SAY GOODBYE to the guys that he spent 13 unbelievable days with. Weird. Pete being most popular etc is easy - I have reprints of the Liverpool Mersey Beat and NME newspapers. When EMI signed the Beatles it was Pete's picture in the paper, not John or Paul's - enuff said. 🎸
@@cuda426hemi Gotcha, thanks for breaking much of that down. Let me get your understanding on a couple of things, if I may. 1) Who's on drums on the original October, 1962 single UK release of, "Love Me Do", and when was the track recorded? 2) Who's on drums on, "Love Me Do", on the 1963 release of the album, Please Please Me, and when was that version of, "Love Me Do", recorded?
@@Cosmo-Kramer common knowledge that if you hear a tambourine it's Andy White on drums. If you don't it's Ringo, except for Pete on the first version which is on Anthology. in UK it was Ringo on the 45, in USA it was Andy on Tollie label. Since I lived all this in real time I don't have to research much. The more interesting thing is who plays drums on the first Please Please Me...I say Andy White. 🎸
This was fascinating pal. I still feel Ringo was “a great drummer” and the right choice ultimately. It’s one of the great unknowns of what would have been had Pete stayed on. The timing of his dismissal was so unfair. No one in retrospect however can say it wasn’t a great decision to bring Starr in. Have you seen the documentary (I think his name was Joe Flannery) we’re he talks about Mona Best being “too intrusive into the Beatles affairs” and this rubbed the others up the wrong way? Maybe there was a personality clash too? After all he did join the band almost on a whim as they needed a drummer for the Hamburg journey. I think it was an amalgamation of things that resulted in his parting the greatest band to ever live. The straw that broke the camels back was George’s Martins comments. They were in the precipice of something and they were always “cut throat” when they needed to be. An honesty of context is needed here too. “No one” could have foreseen what they became. It’s only in hindsight that we are having this conversation. I’m glad Pete Best was rightfully remunerated with the anthology and those priceless memories can never be erased from time. Someone should make a movie about this man though. So crucial a part to the Beatles story and legacy as anybody. 🙏❤️🎸.x
Well said and I agree that nobody knew what they would become and looking back, the timing does make it extra cruel on Pete. Ringo was the perfect choice. Unfortunately, with Joe Flannery, he was a highly unreliable eyewitness and exaggerated a lot of his contributions to the story sadly. There was an element of Monas involved causing some discomfort to Brian, but Brian really didn't want to replace Pete, but had to concede to John Paul and George as their manager. I will be looking at every suggestion put forward for Pete's "dismissal" in another video. Thanks for contributing to the discussion it is much appreciated.
Ringo Starr at the time of being asked to join the Beatles was the best rock & roll drummer in Liverpool at the time and was playing in the top band in Liverpool. He had already played with the Beatles a few times in Hamburg (when Best missed gigs) so the rest of the Beatles already knew how great they'd sound with Ringo on drums. I believe they had planned this for a long time.
I don't believe for one moment what Paul claims to have said about Pete in response to George Martin's comments. If Paul truly believed that the future of the Beatles hinged on getting a better drummer (which is what you seem to be saying), then he and the others would have required Ringo to audition in front of George Martin - and be approved by Martin - before he was allowed to become a member of the group. Nothing else would have made any sense if what Paul said is true. But a formal audition never happened. Instead, Ringo showed up on 4 September and started playing drums as if he were there to stay. George Martin has said he was appalled when he saw Ringo hitting the cymbals with the maracas. Plus, of course, he couldn't play LMD the way Martin wanted him to. Thankfully, all of this nonsense was finally brought to an end when Andy White was brought in on 11 September. Ringo was apparently the only member of the group who was upset about it.
Thanks for your comments. It was a business decision and if Bobby Graham, the first drummer they approached had said yes, it would have been fine, as he was also a session drummer. I am pretty sure that when they asked Ringo, John, Paul, and George were pretty certain that Ringo would not play on the record, though don't think they told him that. And they never asked George Martin's advice! That is strange too.
@@BrightmoonLiverpool Yes, David, you're right, the Threatles knew Ringo wasn't going to play on the record. They knew that because they'd played with Ringo a couple times and knew he wasn't better than Pete. And they knew that, if anything, Pete had considerably more studio experience than Ringo. But none of that mattered, because they weren't sacking Pete over his drumming skills, they were sacking him over their petty jealousies that Pete was, and had been for 2 years, the far and away most popular Beatle with the fans, the club managers, and the press. And they thought that huge gap between their popularity and Pete's was only going to grow exponentially once studio execs got control of the band's promotions.
My only observation here is: would they have dropped George if his playing had raised concerns? I don't think they would have, which confirms what I think we all know, and that is they didn't consider Pete an equal partner. Great vid as usual.
George's guitar playing at Decca was very average! But the Beatles were always John, Paul, and George as they had been together since the end of 1957! It took Ringo 12 months to break into their triumvirate and it was really Ed Sullivan and going to America that saw him fully settled in as an equal.
In addition to this video being educational, I see the headstock of a Fender bass over the narrator's right shoulder. We're on the same page. I'm playing P basses for 50 years! Best bass ever made IMHO
@@BrightmoonLiverpool You are lucky indeed! I believe The Quarrymen later becoming The Beatles were the trail blazers. Just about every musician I know started playing because of The Beatles
The Beatles story is full of serendipity and coincidences. A recording contract was paramount to the Beatles and Brian Epstein, They all worked hard to get the chance to audition for one. It was fortunate that Brian came into the Beatles' lives when they were a club band and Brian got the Beatles the opportunity to audition for EMI after they were rejected by Decca. Everything was happening quickly. after a long time trying to climb the ladder to success. I don't think that John and Paul and George were actively trying to replace Pete until the audition process and George Martin's opinion about Pete's drumming skills as well the opinions of Norman Smith and Ken Townsend as you said. You did an excellent analysis and said things I didn't know about the Beatles story and how pivotal this day was and how it changed history.
Of course they weren't *"actively"* trying to replace Pete before the audition, they were using Pete and his immense popularity to build their name, until they secured a record deal. Once they got it, they replaced him--something they'd been planning on doing a long time.
Sorry Cosmo, I know this is one we debate, but there isn't any evidence for that, unless you have more than just revisionist comments made many years later, which can't be corroborated? The primary reason was what George Martin said. Once they decided they were going to replace Pete after the audition, they discussed whether they could do it, and started to justify it to themselves. That's when the reasons like not fitting in, the haircut, the girls etc none of which on their own were not enough to change one of the group. But not good enough to play on the records? That was a genuine reason to make a change.
@@BrightmoonLiverpool Well, given they didn't actually sack Pete for weeks after they knew they'd secured a contract -- a contract that contained no stipulations about replacing their drummer -- and given they had not even lined up a replacement drummer yet, once that contract came in, they could have very easily abandoned their plans to replace Pete. Sure, they knew it was still the case that Martin was going to use a session drummer. But there was no guarantee that Ringo, or a 17-year old Ritchie, would do any better in the studio. Particularly because JP&G where there on the 6th, and they know that Pete had that, "Love Me Do", song down, they'd played it, and practiced it. They knew, as Norman Smith acknowledged, that the only reason Pete struggled with that one song that day, was because of the out-of-the blue new arrangement (which Smith called "a really bad arrangement") Pete was being told to play. No, JP&G each had their own individual reasons for wanting Pete out, and Martin's words merely gave them the pretext they needed to do the deed. Was it important to them that each band member play on the records? Yes, I do believe they wanted that. But again, they know Martin was selling Pete short, and that had it not been for that sudden arrangement change, Pete would've passed muster with him...actually, Richards, since you've pinpointed him as the one with issue. And Ron admits that he was basically asking Pete to do something too complex, and that once he saw Ringo's talent level, he realized Ringo couldn't have pulled it off, either. Even Eppy said he didn't agree with Martin's assessment of Pete's drumming ability. Again, JP&G had no reason to believe that Ringo would've fared any better in the studio -- which, of course, he didn't. Even with the advantage over Pete, of being able to practice the new arrangement (the only one he ever knew) for at least a fortnight, he still wasn't good enough according to both Martin and Macca for the official recording. Obviously, JP&G didn't know Ringo would fail in his first attempt to pass muster with Martin. But there was no reason to believe he would succeed. Was Ringo ever even in the studio? Did he have as much studio experience as Pete did? No, he did not. And since we know they were roughly on par with each as great rock 'n roll live drummers, taking on a relative unknown like Ringo and sacking Pete based on Martin's comments was a *very* thin reason. I daresay, no reason at all. I say the long-existing jealousies drove the decision. Martin just gave them cover, someone to point the finger to, to blame, to cool the heat which they knew would be put on them. Don't forget what Allan Williams said about Pete's first gig as a Beatle when they arrived in Hamburg in August of 1960, *"After the show when I saw all the girls run right past Paul and the others to swarm around Pete, I said to myself, "Well, he's not going to last long"."* But he did last a good while. Two years. But that's only because he was so damn good, the band gelled musically like it never had before, and his immense popularity brought tons of attention to the band. JP&G were gonna ride that wave until they got a record deal, and then replace him with a drummer who would not steal the spotlight from them. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@@Cosmo-Kramer The Beatles had known Ringo from the early days, playing the same clubs in Liverpool and Hamburg. I feel sorry for Pete Best too, and I don't hear any problem with his drumming on "Love Me Do" on the Anthology release. Ringo was the drummer for the Liverpool band Rory and the Hurricanes and many people thought Ringo was a really good drummer. When the Beatles asked Ringo to join them, Ringo wasn't sure he wanted to leave Rory, but he thought about it and decided to join the Beatles. Pete was a friend and bandmate to John, Paul and George and I think it was painful for them to decide to replace Pete. I don't think there was anything nefarious or traitorous about it.
The day they walked into EMI with Ringo was the day everything changed for Pete? He had already been fired? Everything changed in August when he was thrown out.
Great presentation, and story. If I had to critique anything it would be the abrupt ending. A gentler ending would have topped off this video nicely... *: )* JMO of course.
I was trying to remember June 1962. I had just finished 6th grade with a prediction from my teacher that I would end up in prison. Instead I ended up in Grosse Pointe. Podunksville to OZ. That's what I remember about June 1962.
Pete Best was literally on the cusp of fame and fortune back to driving a delivery van within days. Goodness knows how he must have felt but I think he's picked up a small sum in royalties now. Do you have a link for Part 2? I looked on your channel listings but couldn't see it.
Hmm, it all seems like a shuffle to me, and the beat in the verse and bridge are nearly identical. It seems odd that any experienced drummer would not be able to do both of them, or switch between them. Ringo is a fantastic and underrated drummer, and he was the right drummer for the band. But his genius is more about feel than technique. I think that if Pete Best couldn't make that transition in the audition, it was probably just nerves, and the producers were in a hurry and didn't want to explain to him what they wanted. As you said in the video, they were tough judges of drummers. Also, Ringo was right for the band because he wasn't a prima donna. If you watch Get Back, you will see that he is clearly the most professional member of the group -- he always did what he needed to do. That is under-appreciated. Too many drummers try to do too much. Ringo always did just enough. I have deep respect for him, and I wish I could do a fast shuffle ride like he does!
@heathermeeker5298 You make mkre excellent points. Ron Richards was always going to use a session drummer as was proved when Ringo wasn't good enough for him either. I agree about Ringo's style, too. He always knew the right feel and right beat for the song and just because there was silence, it didn't mean it had to be filled!
Interesting video, thank you. Do you think that George Martin could have had session musicians record all the instruments, not just the drums? Especially for Rubber Soul?
Once they had got into the swing of 1963 and expanding their requirements, it was more about who to add as opposed to replacing the main four. That was never in question, but they were happy to step back if the arrangement needed it eg She's Leaving Home on which none of them played.
Did you say that John, Paul, and George asked 4 others to be their drummer, and Ringo was the one who accepted? What 4 others? I don't think that is correct. Martin said, 'No Pete on sessions,' John, Paul, and George said let's get Ringo. Ringo said yes, and Pete was fired. Ain't no '...other four.' Tell me, what other 4?
There was a period of confusion because it looked like Ringo - who the band were interested in but not dead-set on - wouldn't be able to join due to commitments; the band knew the session-drummer thing seemed like a reality, so they asked around with an eye to hiring another drummer, Johnny Hutchison from the Big Three and Bobby Graham from Joe Brown And The Bruvvers being two of the 4 in your question - there was also the 3 days between the Wednesday and Saturday in mid-August 1962 after Pete had been fired and said he would honor their commitments but never showed up again, so they borrowed Johnny Hutchison to (reluctantly) help out. You really need to read the "Undesirable Member" chapter in Mark Lewison's "Tune In", that will tell you everything!
I can tell you even more than Tune In as I found all four and corroborated them in my book, Finding the Fourth Beatle, with a stunning discovery! Bobby Graham was the first to be asked, and he was a great session drummer and live drummer too, but he was never going to quit London and his gig to move to Liverpool to join a band he'd never heard of who had just got a record deal. Mark Lewisohn suggests it was a temporary offer until Ringo was free, but that isn't true. It was a permanent offer to replace Pete Best. The second to be asked was a local drummer, Ritchie Galvin from Earl Preston and the TTs. A great drummer. He said no. Then Ringo was asked on a Saturday and said yes. Brian confirmed it on the Tuesday, Pete was given the bad news on the Wednesday afternoon and at first promised to play that night. He didn't. As Johnny Hutchinson was playing with the support band, the Big Three, he was asked to sit in with The Beatles. After the gig, Hutch was offered the permanent position in the Beatles by Brian and Bob Wooler. This was the day after Ringo had accepted the role, though Peter Brown said that Ringo was hired on probation initially. Interesting eh?
I would love to hear that version of 'Will you love me tomorrow' sang by Lennon. That's one of the greatest songs ever written, and John was probably the greatest RnR singer at the time. Though the world didn't know it yet.
The whole thing seems to be about getting that recording contract and taking George Martin's "advice". They would do what it took. Ringo wasn't even the next consideration. But as it all turned out. The right decisions were made during that time of June 6th to a signed contract later in June and the eventual recordings on September 4th.
A perfect summation, thank you. They would have done anything to get that contract and if it meant sacrificing the drummer, they would do it. Paul says it was a tough decision, but they had to do something.
It's 60 years too late, but I think it would have been cool to have Paul and George both sing the "love me do" line in harmony when John went to the harmonica. As crazy as it sounds I can practically hear it in my head.
"If i want to make a record, I want to have my own drummer, wich won`t make any difference to you as noone will know who`s on the record anyway" George Martin - This does NOT mean he is thinking of Ringo, like the fanboys in the older comments might assume....😉
When someone is masterfully speaking, like in this case George Martin, people fill in the blanks with their own imagination, which is totally normal, especially when they are influenced by mass media fairytales.... George never said that Richard Starkey was "his own drummer" but that`s what Beatles Fans "Want to Believe" cause it fits in their narrative....@@BrightmoonLiverpool
Great history and this seems well researched. My only quibble is that not enough here is noted about empirically obvious difference in skill level between Ringo and Pete. As a musician myself, playing for many decades professionally, I can say without any reservation that Pete's playing was many levels below Ringo's. Not only in keeping time (something for which Best was notoriously bad), but also in terms of knowing what to play to suit the song. His "4 on the floor" kick drum was completely out of place on some of the band's songs. Bert Kaempfert realized this, and the troubles in time-keeping back in the Tony Sheridan recordings in Hamburg in 1961, when he took the kick drum (and toms) away from Pete...
Kaempfert didn't have any issues with Pete's timing, the only reason he took part of his kit away was because Pete's drumming was too loud for his tastes, as a 40-someting Easy Listening producer. And as for your comparison of Pete and Ringo, how me one recording of Ringo that was made during or before Pete's tenure. You can't, because there are none. You're comparing apples to oranges.
Glad you enjoyed it. The problem with comparing Pete to Ringo in 1962 is that you can only use the evidence from 1962 and earlier, and not the great recordings Ringo went on to create. At that time, according to the many musicians I have spoken to, including drummers, although they had different styles, there was little between Pete and Ringo. Neither were regular enough to impress George Martin. Paul has said how Ringo wasn't thst steady on time jn 62 but became so reliable, so we have to be careful. Kaempfert also didn't remove the drums from Pete because he couldn't play. It was because Kaempfert never used heavy drums of any sort in his recordings. It wad easy listening schlager music, not rock n roll. So he asked Pete to only use his snare and hi-hat. When you listen to My Bonnie, Pete's timing and speed of drum roll are very impressive. Mike Smith at Decca also didn't have a problem with Pete's drumming, and he is very good at Decca, unlike his fellow Beatles! So we have to take a balanced view in 1962. I have played with many drummers over the last 40+ years and you know very quickly who can and can't keep time. If he was so unreliable, John, Paul and George would not have kept Pete for 2 years. When you look at the first couple of Beatles albums, Ringo isn't doing anything spectacular because the music was quite straightforward. But he came into his own by 1965 Ringo was so inventive and creative, but we didn't know that back in 1962.
@@heathermeeker5298 agreed! It would have been nasty for some of the material they were playing which required shuffles, swing etc. All things Pete was not able to do.
Don't miss Part 2 with interviews with Ken Townsend, Norman Smith and George Martin
I had though Pete was already gone & Ringo was replaced by a session drummer. Guess I got the condensed version.
😊😊
You have it correct. The studio documents prove it. June 4 - Pete. Sept 4, Ringo. Sept 11 - Andy White. 'nuff said. @@robertakerman3570
@@robertakerman3570 John, Paul, George, Brian ? had replaced Best with Ringo *but* EMI still went with a session drummer for the Love Me Do album release(Ringo on tambourine) recorded version.
The single Parlophone release is all Ringo. Pete's drumming was recorded 1st but never 'officially' released. It's all available to listen to now.
I found this tonight by accident. I enjoyed it! I am a First Generation Beatles Fan from the 60's. Thanks for posting!
A pleasure, and welcome to the channel. Have fun!
I met Pete in Warren, Michigan at a Beatle Fest thing. Around 1990. A perfect gentleman, and very personable with us. I had him sign my original 1964 "Meet The Beatles" LP cover.
He is a gentleman and has every right to be bitter, yet he isn't.
@@BrightmoonLiverpoolhe was trash as a drummer
I saw him play in a little coffee house in the US about 20 yrs ago, he came off as a kind of Jimmy Buffet happy guy. good attitude banter.
Massive Beatles fan even before I found out their EMI audition was on the day I was born - 6th June 1962, thanks for the research Dave
So was I!
@@kevvarney9226 Happy birthday!!
Happy birthday
And we all know from the lads that Ringo sat in for Pete in Hamburg and the threesome KNEW from the visceral feel and pulse Ringo's drumming how good it sounded and felt. So hiring Ringo was a no brainer. Paul, George, and John knew each other for years and hired Pete as a hired gun in the 11th hour so they could play in Germany. How attached and loyal they were to Pete, well, I leave this perspective to historians. But they loved Ringo. We know the rest of the story.
They met Ringo in Hamburg in 1960, and saw him out on the road in Liverpool, but he didn't sit in with them until once at the end of December 1961 - when Pete asked him to sit in for him - and 3 times in early 62.
Yes, Pete joined at the 11th hour, but the four Beatles - once Stuart had left - were untouchable in Liverpool and Hamburg. George became friendly with Ringo in early 62, and once George Martin had made these comments to Brian, they had to make a business decision for their future.
Ringo wasn't the first drummer to be asked to replace Pete. That was Bobby Graham. They then asked Ritchie Galvin. Both said no. They then asked Ringo who said yes, then a couple of days later Brian asked Johnny Hutchinson. He said no, and Ringo said yes.
George says he was responsible for convincing John and Paul to agree to Ringo joining. It did work. It wouldn't have worked the same way with any other drummer. He was the perfect drummer for the Beatles.
@@BrightmoonLiverpool Hi David. Pete says he only called out twice. This was corroborated in another documentary I watched which stated that Ringo sat in for Pete on two dates, the first in December of '61; and the second in March of '62. The March gig was a Lunch-Dinner doubleheader (I believe at The Cavern), where the band had several hours off in between the two "gigs", and they hung out and ate/drank during that break. One of the dates was due to illness, and the other was due to a minor court appearance requirement Pete had to attend. So, I have two questions for you. Are you counting the March doubleheader as "two gigs" that Ringo filled in for Pete? And if so, what is the other early '62 gig you're referring to?
Great insight into some of the subtleties of the situation which many commentators overlook. Dave has empathy for all the participants, and this allows him to understand not just what happened, but why. Presented cogently, realistically and dramatically - again, not qualities all Beatles biographers possess. Classy.
Thank you so much. I am a historian and I follow the evidence, which isn't always easy with the Beatles! I try to be objective too, so thank you for your kind comments.
@@BrightmoonLiverpool As a historian, may I ask what your impression is of the book, "How they Became the Beatles" by Pawlowski?
Thanks for clearing the air and using actual evidence and facts to tell these stories. It’s very refreshing to see
Thank you, it is a pleasure.
It wasn’t just about Pete’s abilities to play drums. According to John, Paul and George it was his personality which did not fit into the group. Still I think Ringo was also the better choice as a drummer anyway if you listen to his ability to translate the ideas of his bandmates. The Beatles became more colorful with him musically and in terms of charisma of the band.
I think that once George Martin had made those comments to Brian, relayed to John, Paul and George, they had to decide if they should replace him. That's when those other factors came into it, like did he fit in etc.
Looking back, I agree that bringing Ringo in was the perfect way to progress to the next stage, when his versatility and experience helped him contribute significantly to the Beatles sound, as well as with his personality too.
@@BrightmoonLiverpool Another item possibly was the obvious interference of Mona Best who didn't notice that her acting (probably involuntarily) wasn't particularly helpful for Pete's standing within the band as the others grew tired of it.
@@JoeAlexey I think that is how the 3 Beatles persuaded Brian to go along with it. He was opposed to the change and had to be convinced to proceed. I reckon this is how they did. Would have helped Brian for sure.
Look at the results of the changes. The biggest, the best (no pun intended), the most influential musical group ever.
@davidtuer5825 In hindsight, you're absolutely right, and you can not argue with the decision based upon what we know.
However, none of that was known to John, Paul, or George when they made the decision.
The joys of hindsight! It all worked out perfectly.
Great Story David, I definitely need to see more of your videos. As an American, I was immersed into the "whole thing" when my parents sent me to England in the Summer of 1962 to live in London with my Grandmother....from Aug 1962 to Oct 1963 I lived in East Ham/Forest Gate and started listening to music... I sailed on the Queen Mary back to the U.S. and into NYC Harbour in Oct 1963 as a 13 year old with two Beatles 45rpm records in hand...I experienced this transformation of my own development and that of the Beatles first hand. No One in my school knew who I was talking about (Junior HS in Washington DC)..... Thank you... Now I am curious as to the other auditions that they did besides Deca..
David, 50+ years later I am now a professional picture framer (45 years) as an occupational hazard, I must comment on the LP framing behind you. Although traditional and gold it is very generic and not the best choice in design for the subject matter.... just sayin' - As the owner of the most award winning frame shop in the U.S. and World, I might suggest some alternative framing presentations. Wish I still had those 4 cut - British 45's to frame, but I left them to my sister at some point in time, and they are gone. Thanks for listening and for your professionalism. John
Thank you for sharing that John, you were ahead of most Americans! Fantastic.
Glad you enjoyed the video - plenty to keep you occupied!
David
Thank you - the framed records were a present from my wife.
Here is some trivia for you. Which early Beatles drummer was a professional picture framer? 🤔
Brilliant research, Dave! A truly fascinating chapter in the story. Thanks!
Thank you!
I met Pete at a record store back in 1982 in El Cajon, CA. He was promoting some Silver Beatles records and signing autographs.
A nice man and loves talking with fans.
Blue Meanie!
Of all the “stories” I’ve heard (including John’s) this is the one that makes the most sense.
Thank you. I try to examine and present the evidence objectively, so I am glad you enjoyed it.
This is another great video David and some fascinating facts that I would never have known. Well done.
Thank you. I'm glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for commenting too, the feedback is important.
@@BrightmoonLiverpool It would be amazing if there was recordings of that EMI audition with Pete like the Decca Tapes which made it to vinyl.
I have heard " Love Me Do " with Pete but I don't think I've heard other tracks which was agreed they were going to try like " PS I love you " , " Besame Mucho " and others.
@@KC-wi4gh "Besame Mucho" with Pete from this day at EMI is also on Anthology 1, and he sounds totally solid on it. Had that been the song they were going to use for their first single, Martin would not have requested a session drummer. It was only because Pete struggled with the sudden arrangement change on, "Love Me Do", that Martin gave him the quick hook and said he'd use a session pro uncredited on the record. Martin didn't want to waste time or money, and using session musicians was no big deal at all to him, it happened all the time. But the fair thing to do, given he ambushed the boys with the new arrangement that day, would've been to let them go home so that Pete, and Paul with the vocals he struggled on, could practice the new arrangement. Furthermore, I suspect the particular take Martin provided to the Anthology project of, "Love Me Do", under the pretense it was the only take still in existence, is not in fact the only one he found. And that other takes showed Pete doing much better. Still perhaps not up to Martin's fussy standards, okay. But much better than what he did "find". Umm, don't hold your breath for any more being released.
And similarly, Paul McCartney outbid everyone at auction years back for recordings of The Beatles with Pete on drums playing live at The Cavern Club. He's never released them. I suspect Pete sounded great, and Paul doesn't want anyone to hear that. I forget his name, but a member of a rival band back then said, *"You've never heard The Beatles if you didn't see them at The Cavern with Pete Best."*
I met Pete in Liverpool in 1994. I was impressed with what a personable and genuinely nice guy he was.
I hope that he is pleased with his place in history; I would be.
Once he got over the massive disappointment, he has been a very happy and contented man for many decades. His family is the most important thing to him, and he is proud of what he achieved and rightly so. He is an absolute gentleman, but is also a very funny guy to hang out with! Great sense of humour.
@@BrightmoonLiverpoolPete have any catholic roots?
@@brmc6145 Nope just asking if the guy knows if pete had catholic roots.
Great presentation. Glad I caught this, thank you!
Thank you
Really interesting. Excellently researched
Thanks Keith
Fantastic as always. Keep up the incredible work!
Thank you
Brilliant, thanks. Born in 1963 I lived through most of it but didn't know!
Glad you enjoyed it.
According to Lewisohn and other accounts, Lennon, McCartney and Harrison had been looking to get rid of Pete for some time. They had already been told by both Bert Kampfert and Decca that Pete wasn't adequate as a drummer. I know it's odd that they kept him on for so long, but his exit had to do with more than just George Martin.
Unfortunately, a lot of that is hearsay and revisionism. Kaempfert didn't have a problem apart from the fact that he didn't ever use dominant drums on records. So he asked Pete only to play his snare and cymbals. Listen to Pete on My Bonnie. His drumming, timing, speed of drum rolls is superb. There is no evidence to say that they wanted to get rid of Pete before this day.
I'm afraid Mark Lewisohn’s aim was to say it was always going to be Ringo and they were always going to replace Pete. But there is no evidence for that, apart from comments years later. I also found something no one else did, which was that John, Paul, George and Pete signed a legal partnership agreement at the end of 1961. Not the actions of a group who wanted rid of their drummer.
The only evidence that exists is that after June 6th, 1962, the decision was taken to start looking for a replacement drummer and only once they had received the contract at the end of July did they start that process.
Why keep repeating this nonsense, you have the real story here. Record producers didn't care about musicianship, they just used session muso's to sell an image. Look up "The Wrecking Crew"
@@BrightmoonLiverpool Superb? 🤨
@ChrisR Yes according to drummers I interviewed. Not many drummers can do that kind of drum roll at that speed consistently. One of George Martin's criticisms of Ringo was that he couldn't do a good drum roll. Didn't stop Ringo being a great drummer.
@@BrightmoonLiverpool as a life long drummer i can’t find anything of merit to say about Best. He wasn’t a keeper!everyone thought the same.playing in a smelly noisey club is miles from working in studio.The drummer must be flawless. If he had had any talent, he would have parlayed his fame for at least a couple of years, and made some serious money of it but even with that going for him, he was a flop. No shame in that he still cashed out 30 or 40 years later.
Wonderfully informed and documented commentator. Thank you.
Thank you very much. David
This is one of the most interesting video i have ever found in internet. In my opinion, nobody knows the truth . However, all the Beatles fans , love both Pete and Ringo ; i would love , before will be too late , to see them together ,with Paul . Even for few songs , but TOGETHER !
That would be amazing, and Pete would do it, but Paul and Ringo wouldn't, sadly. Shame. They all contributed to the story.
@@BrightmoonLiverpool Maybe ( maybe) Ringo would be more available towards Pete, talking about Paul.....i'm afraid that you are right . We have a proverb in Italy that says " time can heal many wounds " ..... so....Let 's keep dreaming....never know!!! 👋🐾🐾
@@patrickbuzzo1970 Your countrymen also burned Carthage to the ground and salted the earth so that nothing would ever grow there again. LOL
@@Cosmo-KramerHi , Cosmo Kramer, i wish you a nice week ! Greetings from Italy 👋
@@patrickbuzzo1970 Did you understand my comment? Do they still teach The Punic Wars in Italian schools?
thanks for this history. well presented. excellent
Thank you.
you did an amazing job with this video "brightmoon liverpool" !!! Thanks !!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you.
Lovely article David, wishing you the best.....Mojo
Thanks Phil, gope you're keeping well?
As a drummer i know the upset when you leave a band. But you carry on and you find another band and you make music.
That's what he did and had a brief career making records.
Yes that's right
Uh, Ok, however, living with the fact that that band went on to be the most famous band in History! I might have lost a few nights sleep! 😖
I happen to remember exactly what I was doing June 6, 1962.
You have to give George Martin a LOT of credit for recognizing the potential of a band that was just barely beginning to hit its stride.
Absolutely right. He saw that something and the potential. Great man.
@@johnburns4017 Actually, one VERY impressive thing George Martin did was tell them to speed up "Please Please Me", which was originally done at just a very laid back, ballad sort of tempo. They played it for him and he told them to rework it - make it much faster - which they did, thus creating a real rock'n'roll classic and, importantly for the Beatles - a HIT. :)
@@BogartSlap
Martin wanted fast temp pop songs that sold at the time. That was probably upmost in his mind.
@johnburns4017 As George Martin has admitted, it was their personalities that impressed him more than their music yet. Love Me Do wasn't a great song, but was catchy. What he did with Please Please Me made the song, so he had good instincts.
Ken Townsend does not paint it that way. Martin had near zero experience of pop/rocks bands. His attempts at pop record were dire. He probably did not know a good one from bad one. This unknown band turns up with a drummer not good enough for studio work, then turns up again with another drummer not good enough for studio work. Despite, Martin allowed them to record their own compositions on the first recording. Andy White the session drummer on _Love Me Do_ and other songs, said that was unheard of in those days.
The first release, one of their own compositions, was bland to say the least. Group and producer were not impressive for sure.
Thank you so much for taking the time to make and post this excellent behind the scenes story what really happened at EMI *Beatles* audition.
A pleasure Larry, glad you enjoyed it
Thank god they picked Ringo, otherwise we wouldn't have all those amazing beats, the most underrated drummer in history
He was and is a phenomenal drummer!
Agreed. Let's be honest. You only have listen to the Decca audition to know Pete Best was not a good drummer. When Ringo first played with The Beatles didn't Paul say something like "this was when we realised what had been missing."
@kingstumble Paul said that many years later, but what else would you expect him to say? Unfortunately, Paul is one of the most unreliable Beatles eyewitnesses and has rewritten Beatles history many times over the years.
What is it at Decca that you don't like?
And if we were to judge the Beatles on the Decca audition, you'd never let Paul sing again and replace George as lead guitarist! John's vocals are shocking, but George is the best singer on the day.
@@BrightmoonLiverpool As a gigging bass player for many years I know a bit about drumming and drummers. Most songs are in 4/4 time which requires the drummer in a rock band to play a regular four to the bar with a heavily accented two and four( or on the two and three if it's in 3/4 time.) Pete either didn't or couldn't do that. It was as if he was accompanying a piano player at a local pub.
@kingstumble That is strange because the one thing the other Beatles said was that he could play a 4 beats to the bar nonstop and very well too.
I am a guitarist/ bass player/ keyboard player (but not a drummer) and played with many drummers over the last 40 or more years, and you know very quickly when someone can't keep time. Musicians of the quality of John, Paul, and George would not take 2 years, would they? They would have soon gotten rid and had many opportunities to do so. But they never did. That tells me that he was a really good, reliable drummer.
In the next video, I will show a clip from Paul saying that Pete was a really good drummer. He said that more than once too.
Very interesting, thank you very much.
Thank you
Outstanding. Great story. Thanks.
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it.
Great video Dave interesting story , good job John had learn to play the gob iron 😁😁👍👍🎸😎🎸BB 14
Can't beat a good gob iron mate!! And John had Arthur Pendleton to thank for teaching him how to play it. 👍👍
@@BrightmoonLiverpool Pendletons ice cream ? 😁😁
@@beeetleboy518 Ha ha! If only. 😂
Excellent research and reporting, thank you for posting this. - Dan, in Texas
Thanks Dan
*Drummers at EMI:*
*6 June 1962:* Pete Best.
*4 Sept 1962:* Ringo Starr.
*11 Sept 1962:* Andy White.
_On my first visit in September [4 Sept] we just ran through some tracks for George Martin. We even did "Please Please Me". I remember that, because while we were recording it I was playing the bass drum with a maraca in one hand and a tambourine in the other. I think it's because of that that George Martin used Andy White, the_ *_"professional",_* _when we went down a week later [11 Sept] to record "Love Me Do"._
- Ringo Star
_"George [Martin]_ *_got his way_* _and Ringo didn't drum on the first single [11 Sept]. He only played tambourine."_
_"Ringo, at that point, was not that steady on time"._
- Paul McCartney
Engineer Geoff Emerick in his book on page 46 stated that George Martin, Norman Smith and *Paul McCartney* were all dissatisfied with Ringo's timekeeping on 4 Sept. McCartney *got his way* as well.
Ringo's poor performance on 4 Sept led to sessions drummer Andy White being brought in for the _'Love Me Do'_ 11 Sept session.
_"I didn't rate Ringo very highly. He couldn't do a roll - and still can't - though he's improved a lot since. Andy was the kind of drummer I needed. Ringo was only used to ballrooms. It was obviously best to use someone with experience"._
- George Martin
_[Ringo] lacked drive._
- Ron Richards
_"He [Ringo] didn't have quite enough push"_
- Engineer Norman Smith
Ringo was impressed with _professional_ Andy White, buying a Ludwig drum set, the make White used.
Thanks for this. Paul also said that at that time Ringo wasn't that steady on time but he became so good at it soon after. I think Ringo's story is a little unbelievable and used as an excuse because George Martin didn't use him.
The irony is that, in the UK, Ringo's version from 4th September was released by mistake instead of Andy White's version from 11th September.
So even though Ringo claimed he didn't drum on the first single, by mistake, he did! That master was destroyed to stop it from happening again.
@@BrightmoonLiverpool
The Andy White version of _Love Me Do_ was the better of the two. His has the tambourine played by Ringo and the superior Ludwig drums. Pete's version was hampered by his battered appalling drum kit. By mistake the Andy and Ringo versions were released all over the place. Different version on singles and LPs, in many different countries.
Which master was destroyed?
@johnburns4017 I agree with you. Andy's version is brighter, slightly faster, and crisper. Ringo's tambourine definitely lifts it, too.
Ringo's was the single released in the UK, but when the album was released in 63, it was White's version, and all subsequent releases were too. The master of Ringo's version was destroyed in late 63 to avoid the same mistake happening again.
@@BrightmoonLiverpool
The only remaining recordings of Ringo's version are on vinyl tat were sold at shops.
@johnburns4017 yes, and when they did a 50th anniversary reissue of Love Me Do they released Ringo's version again by mistake (though I reckon it was a private joke), recalled them and reissued Andy White's!
My favorites from this audition were: 3 Cool Cats, September in the Rain, and Take Good Care of my Baby!🎶🎶
Good choices! They are good, aren't they?
Excellent analysis
Thank you
Interesting Dave, thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it
Oh if those tapes could be miraculously found!
Funny you should say that! Geoff Emerick, who ended up producing the Beatles many times, had kept the tapes and there was a legal battle a few years ago over who owns them, after Emerick died! Apple wanted them, of course, but I don't know the outcome. I reckon Apple now have them. So don't expect to hear them any time soon!
@@BrightmoonLiverpool At this point, it is morally criminal for anyone to withhold any unheard Beatle material.
@Brammy007a Absolutely right, but Apple have lots of material they are keeping to themselves. As you say, after all this time it is ridiculous.
Norman Smith - became the singer Hurricane Smith and had chart success. Also produced 3 Pink Floyd albums including their first 2. Remarkable chap, who John Lennon nicknamed "Nicotine Norman" due to their shared smoking habit and ultimately "Normal Norman" due to Smith being modest and relatively quiet, yet supremely talented.
Norman was also nicknamed "2 db's Smith" because he would ask John or George to turn down their amplifiers a couple of decibels.
..and yet he didn't like them and Martin thought their songs were rubbish.They were signed because they were funny.This chimes in with Martin's previous recorded work.Comedy.Lucky git.
Sixty-one years ago today...
What history! Life changing events.
4:38 just a note to those who might be tempted to spot GLAD ALL OVER and assume it's the DC 5 song- It's actually a Carl Perkin's song but DID inspire the DC song they wrote because they simply liked the title!
Excellent spot!
Great video......thanks.
Thanks for watching!
Ron Richards sure did have a thing for drums, The Hollies had the best drum sound in 63/64 outside of the DC5 thanks to him. Not to mention more bass on Ron Richards Hollies recordings.
He was a great producer.
Ringos drum sound was every bit as good as the Hollies ( which was undoubtedly good )
“ Andy White didn’t do anything that I couldn’t do “ - Ringo Starr , Beatles anthology 1994 .
I assume you’re friends with Pete ? You keep defending him . By using my ears , I can tell clearly that Ringo is a far superior player 💁♂️
@stuartshire He could, because Andy White was spot on with his timing and feel for the song. Not complicated, but regular and that is what George Martin needed. Ringo's timing fluctuated, as all live drummers did. But he learned quickly and his timing became very dependable.
What a story, indeed! Thanks for these new [to me] details and insights. I am your latest subscriber!
A pleasure, so glad you enjoyed it and thank you for subscribing too. Lots of content for you to enjoy!
I’m also your latest Subscriber. 🤠
The nuance of the word "if". Life changing.
Exactly - just one small word.
Love the Layers of the Onion you are able to peel back on the Pete Best Saga. He seems like a genuinely interesting dude, have you ever had him on your channel for an interview?
Pete is a great guy who I interviewed years ago for my first book. He liked what I did so much he wrote the foreword to it. He is a really nice guy and we have some great interviews with him to share sometime.
Ohh..to be a fly on the wall in that studio on that day.😃❤️
Oh yes!
Really cool ,love the Beatles
Thank you
Well told Sir!
Thank you
Outstanding video, brother.
Thank you
I see that at 2:50 a song which George Harrison was supposed to do was called "Glad All Over". That can't possibly be the same song that the Dave Clark 5 did. It must be some other song which I am not familiar with.
A Carl Perkins tune, later recorded live at the BBC.
Thanks John. Yes it was a 1956 Carl Perkins song that was a popular choice with the Beatles.
@@John_Hazeldene Thanks for your response. I just listened to it. Definitely not a bad number.
Great video
Thank you
It wasn''t an audition, they'd already been signed. Mark Lewisohn lays out the sequence of events in quite a bit of detail in Tune In, a must read for anyone who really wants to understand the early lives and careers of the Beatles.
As for why they recorded "Love Me Do," they HAD to record an original song -- Martin was under orders to record at least one Beatles original so that Ardmore & Beechwood (the publishing company associated with EMI) could get the publishing rights for Lennon & McCartney, and that's why the Beatles were fobbed off on Martin (who, though he was completely won over by the band later on, didn't start out enthusiastic).
And lots of people had questioned Pete Best's role in the group -- Bert Kaempfert took away most of his kit when he recorded Tony Sheridan and the Beatles recording "My Bonnie," and Decca had also slammed Pete's performance in the New Year's Day audition. And there'd been a rift between Pete and the Beatles well before then -- "you were never raelly one of us, soft head."
Thanks for your comments and contributing to the debate.
A few points to raise in response.
Unfortunately, Mark Lewisohn was mistaken in Tune In, which I have and have studied. I also know Mark too, and I mean no disrespect. I trained in contract law and English law years ago, and I knew that he was mistaken. His evidence was a form used sometimes when groups were under contract. But there is nothing else to support the notion. In many interviews, all of the people who were there have confirmed it was an Artist Test, known as an audition. George Martin, Ron Richards, Ken Townsend, Norman Smith, Brian Epstein, John, Paul, George, and Pete too. All considered it to be an audition.
I can understand anyone who is not legally trained to have misinterpreted what was found, and Mark can not be blamed for misunderstanding what happened because of some of the words used.
George Martin sent Brian a draft contract (unsigned) which Brian signed on behalf of the Beatles. A contract only signed by 1 party is not valid yet. It only becomes legal when the other party signs.
Ironically, the evidence to prove when this was done is in one of Mark's earlier books, the excellent Complete Beatles Chronicles. In there, he reproduced various letters that EMI issued around this time. This shows that George Martin didn't send off the contract to be signed until around 18th June. He could not sign it.
This means that the contract only became valid then, some 2 weeks after the audition. I had this checked with a top lawyer in Liverpool to confirm my thoughts. So it was definitely only an audition.
Ardmore and Beechwood wanted George Martin to record an original song, because they wanted to publish it and make money from that. They liked some of the demos from the Decca Audition. George Martin liked the harmonica on Love Me Do but nothing else stood out.
Also, the Beatles were not fobbed off onto George Martin. That was mischief making from a disgruntled man!
He wanted them to record How Do You Do It by Mitch Murray and it was only in September that George Martin relented and let them release Love Me Do, with Andy White the session drummer.
As to your other points, Mark was painting a very negative view of Pete Best, which also isn't completely accurate. Bert Kaempfert didn't remove Best's drums because he was incompetent, it was because Pete was a rock n roll drummer. Listen to Kaempferts recordings and he never uses a heavy drum sound. He produced easy listening music known as schlager music, which had very light drums on the songs. He asked Pete to only play his snare and cymbals. And his drumming is excellent. That is also why they recorded a version of My Bonnie, an old Scottish folk song that kids learned in school. He wad no rock n roll man.
As for Decca, Lewisohn found some obscure guy nobody had heard of before who was happy to slate Best's drumming. What he avoided was quoting the producer, Mike Smith, the most important person at the audition, who had no problem with Best's drumming. He had problems with Paul's vocals and George's lead guitar work!
I will be doing a video on getting rid of Pete with all the evidence.
As a historian, I gather all the evidence and present it. If you want the full story, then it is in my book, Finding the Fourth Beatle. All the evidence is there.
Hope that all makes sense? Happy to answer any more questions.
@@BrightmoonLiverpool David, I saw the worksheet (or whatever it's called) for the lads Decca audition, and it listed all the Decca staffers working the session. Missing from that list was, Mark Savage. Strong evidence that he wasn't even there.
I've read in Lewisohn's book that back in Germany, the local producers also had problems with Pete Best, specifically concerning studio work.
Unfortunately, there is a very strong bias against Best in Tune In and some myths perpetuated.
The Beatles had a solid rock n roll sound that they had developed over there, but Bert Kaempfert preferred light entertainment, known as schlager music. That is why he picked an old Scottish folk song to record.
So Kaempfert asked Pete to not play his rock n roll beat, and to only use his snare and hi-hat. That was the sound Kaempfert always used.
But when you listen to what they recorded, Best's drumming is excellent.
@@BrightmoonLiverpool Thanks for the clarification!
Lewisohn is a professional writer and therefore writes about " facts " that are biased to what the Beatles fans want to read and thus certain episodes in the timeline that do not show the Beatles in a good light are twisted or entirely erased..Trust me there are scores of them!
Lewisohn has an Anti-Pete Best Agenda.
I noticed "Glad All Over" on the list. That's a Dave Clark 5 song. I know the DC5 were around in 1962, but they didn't record the song until 1963. Hmm…
I noticed that and it is curious. I don't have the answer yet!
@@BrightmoonLiverpool I found the answer. Carl Perkins did a song by the same name in 1957. This is the song the list refers to. The Beatles recorded it at the BBC sessions.
OK that was great. Very helpful.
Thank you
yeh what a story !
nailed it👍
at 15.48 you said it could not have worked with any one else..to me thats an after the fact statement
Absolutely right, I was making that as an observation looking back. John, Paul, and George didn't know when they hired Ringo that it would work out as well as it did.
@@BrightmoonLiverpool And I'll wager - neither did Ringo!
It was really cowardly how John, Paul and George handled the dismissal of Pete Best!
After all Pete and his mother Mona Best did in promoting the group.
It was such an evil betrayal and stab in the back!
All John, Paul and George needed to do was treat Pete Best with respect and have a meeting with him and Manager Brian Epstein and explain to Pete that George Martin wasn't impressed with his Drumming.
They could have still put Pete on salary until he became employed.
All it took was a little "LOVE" which The Beatles always preached about.
You make some excellent points. John did say they were cowards, but it was worse than that. Best had spent 2 years building the Beatles and got them to that point, so it was worse than cowardly, it was cruel and selfish, and definitely lacked love, as you said.
Great vid. 🎶
Thank you.
Very interesting. Thanks Brightmoon. For McCartney and Lennon especially, getting a recording contract must have been their life's dream. I see them basically having no choice but to replace Pete. I haven't heard the story about other drummers being asked - were they all from Liverpool? I think Macca and Lennon knew for their sound they needed a Liverpool drummer who was in that same scene otherwise the dynamics wouldn't have worked - which was why Ringo was such a good pick. Maybe we don't give them enough credit at this early stage in their careers but In some ways The Beatles were ahead of the game in understanding the current trends in popular music - they probably understood it better than the studio techs at EMI
The other drummers were Bobby Graham from London and then Ritchie Galvin and Johnny Hutchinson from Liverpool.
John, Paul, George and Pete were at their last chance of a record contract. If it meant dropping Pete then they felt they had no choice and you can't blame them.
@@BrightmoonLiverpool But it didn't mean they had no choice. The Beatles...with Pete as their drummer...were signed a month before they sacked Pete. They most certainly had the choice to retain him. The contract was not in jeopardy, and they knew that.
Well John said in an interview that I heard that Ringo was a bigger name than they were in Liverpool at that time and they were lucky to get him.
@@davidtuer5825 That's typical John being misleading with a half-truth. The part that is true is that the day The Beatles hired Pete Best, Pete was a relatively unknown drummer compared to Ringo. Ringo was the drummer for the top band in Liverpool, Rory Storm and The Hurricanes, and he had a very good reputation as a drummer. Pete, in contrast, had only begun drumming 8 months earlier, and for a much lesser known band called, The Black Jacks. So yes, if instead of hiring Pete Best in the summer of '60, The Beatles had hired Ringo, sure, they would've been very lucky to get him, based just off of reputation. Of course, that never would've happened. Because even if Ringo was available (which he was not), The Beatles were the worst band in Liverpool, and he would've had no interest in joining them. He was in demand and would've signed on with on with one of the other top bands. So yeah, John, you would've been lucky to have Ringo...at that point when you stunk, before you got Pete. But that's fantasy land, because Ringo wouldn't have given you the time of day.
The REALITY of the situation was that The Beatles hired Pete, and went off to Hamburg. The German crowds were so loud and raucous they were drowning out The Beatles. And not in a good way, like during Beatlemania. No, these Hamburg crowds weren't loud in appreciation of The Beatles, they were just wild, period. So Pete decided something had to be done, and he invented the *"Atom Beat".* It was a thunderous style of drumming, which allowed the band to be heard, and which won over the crazy German crowds. The Beatles, with Pete's Atom Beat, gelled like they never had before, with 21 previous drummers. They quickly transformed from the worst band in Liverpool to the best band in Hamburg (and Liverpool 4 months later when they returned).
In 1960, Ringo's band, Rory Storm and The Hurricanes, won the Mersey Beat "Greatest Band" year-end poll. The very next year, 1961, The Beatles won the poll. The Beatles were the hottest band in two cities, and Pete Best was their most popular member. Not just because of his signature Atom Beat -- which all the other drummers, including Ringo, tried to copy -- but also because Pete had leading man looks and the fans adored him like no other Beatle, and like no other musician in the Liverpool/Hamburg scene. Geoff Nugent of the rival Liverpool band, The Undertakers said, *"You'd see two or three girls around John, Paul, and George, and you'd see fifty around Pete. Pete Best put The Beatles on the map."*
So when The Beatles replaced Pete with Ringo in the summer of '62, it's quite misleading to say, "we were lucky to get the bigger named drummer, Ringo", because at that point, Pete Best had for a long time been the bigger name. Both by virtue of being on the best band, and also by having revolutionized rock drumming in that era with the Atom Beat. Ringo was popular, no doubt. But no one was as popular as Pete, not even close.
Why did they dump Pete, then? Well, here's what a contemporary drummer of Pete's said when he was asked in an interview what he thought of Pete's drumming: *"He was a genius. You could sit Pete Best on a drum kit and ask him to play for 19 hours and he'd put his head down and do it. He'd drum like a dream with real style and stamina all night long, and that really was The Beatles' sound, forget the guitars. I was amazed when they replaced him. I even thought about learning guitar so he could be the drummer in my band. The Beatles didn't hate Pete Best, but they didn't want to be outshone by their drummer. Ringo was a good drummer but he was more ordinary."* -- Chris Curtis, drummer for The Searchers, a great Liverpool band who scored a 1964 Top 3 Hit in the US charts with their classic, "Love Potion # 9". Chris saw Pete Best play many times in both Hamburg and Liverpool during Pete's two years as The Beatles' drummer.
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That was very well done. Now maybe the Pete critics will shut up.
I remember at the time everyone knew about the Beatles trying for a recording contract, but nobody knew how involved it all was.
Many groups at the time used session drummers. Clem Cattini played for so many big names including the Kinks, the Yardbirds even Hermans Hermits. It wasn't that big a deal.
Listening to this video I can understand the dilemma. Had George Martin recorded them immediately, Pete would probably still be in the band.Nobody at that time could really have foreseen the mega talent that the Beatles became.
Well said, thank you. Everyone was using session musicians, as did the Beatles with Andy White. Bobby Graham, the first drummer Brian asked to replace Pete, played on 1500 songs at least, and an estimated 50 #1 singles! Jimmy Page and John Paul Jones were among the busiest session musicians in the 60s before they formed Led Zeppelin. Clem Cattini was going to join them too!
Everybody used session musicians, just as George Martin said to Brian.
That's like hoping the Brian Jones apologists would chill during a discussion of the Stones;
. . . ain't gonna happen.
If Martin said the contract will be in the post in two days time, so come down in a week for another session, Pete would have still been with them. No time to get another drummer.
Ringo was the only one for the Beatles, he was a perfect fit in that band. He is a musician who worked out what was needed for each song. At times it was very sparse, leaving out beats that were unnecessary. Other times, he drove the band with hard swing that lifted the song, to swing is a rare gift. Then there was the intricacies & fills that enhanced it all that stand out to this day. He was the greatest & only drummer to fill the drum chair, thankfully as it all turned out.
@@pinksax
All the German girls went for Pete, so Howie Casey said. As did the girls at the Cavern. Where is this insular dour personality they talk of?
Mark Lewisohn pushed this... _Pete never fitted in and was not a good drummer._ He skirted over Pete's amazing popularity with girls. *Pete was the most popular Beatle by far with fans.* But Mark needed work from Apple, so he did not upset the _Pete Best was a bad drummer_ apple cart. A highly embarrassing episode for _The Beatles,_ they wanted to dissolve and go away.
Mark's book is brilliant. A masterful piece of work. The treatment of the Pete Best affair going along with what McCartney wanted, lets it down.
The evidence shows that Pete Best wasn't too bothered at the time, because he was immediately offered other drumming places which he turned down. Ultimately, he never became anyone's chosen drummer.
My take on this, is that he was given the job to get the Hamburg bookings and was totally fine for live sessions in noisy clubs. But the evidence also shows that if Pete played a song more than once, you got different drumming each time, and he added flourishes where they weren't needed. He could play a drum set - he just didn't really 'get' what the drums were for in a vocal three guitars and a drum kit group.
I also tend to think he wouldn't have stood there in front of Brian and not insisted he was given a reason for his sacking. Brian almost certainly told him, but his familiar whine was _'I don't know why I was sacked,'_ because it allowed him to make the _'I was cheated'_ and/or _'they were jealous'_ inferences. It's a shame he didn't just say _'Well, Ringo got the job and look what happened. He was just a better drummer than me.'_ It would probably have netted him more appearance fees. He likes to claim he didn't harbour any grudge, but he obviously did, because only he promoted the legend of being cheated and a victim of jealousy.
He also claimed John would have fought for him if he'd been there with him when he got sacked. However, it was John who made the most damning criticism of him in interview.
He's part of the history and he's an important part of it at that, albeit for maybe the wrong reasons. But he netted 7-figures out of 'Anthology' and rightly so. His own apocryphal version of the sacking story, however - and with some slight variations - remains the same.
Ringo nailed it with a 'less is more' approach and an intuitive sense of timing. Pete lost it because he saw the kit as an improvising instrument, not a metronome. Ringo never did a notable drum solo without being pushed into it briefly for Abbey Road. Pete never did a notable drum track, because he was never intent on becoming a notable drummer.
Even as far in the distance as the Let It Be sessions, we can see Ringo basically did as he was told. With Ringo, it was as much his personality as his ability. Pete was toast as soon as the negative feedback came through from the 1.1.62 Decca audition.
Playing drums, particularly in a rock band, is about keeping good time. You can add flourishes, embellishments, and what have you, but you have to keep time and support the song. If you can't do that effectively, you're kinda useless.
I've heard some of those early recordings with Pete playing the drums, no offense to those PB fans but his playing was overall anemic. On the other hand, Ringo's technique was much stronger and way more developed. Ringo knew how to kick a band, he was much more musical with his grooves, accents, and fills throughout each song. Also, Ringo's time is impeccable. It was a no brainer to replace Pete, he was the weakest link by far!
_On my first visit in September [4 Sept] we just ran through some tracks for George Martin. We even did "Please Please Me". I remember that, because while we were recording it I was playing the bass drum with a maraca in one hand and a tambourine in the other. I think it's because of that that George Martin used Andy White, the_ *_"professional",_* _when we went down a week later [11 Sept] to record "Love Me Do"._
- Ringo Starr
_"George [Martin] got his way and Ringo didn't drum on the first single [11 Sept]. He only played tambourine."_
- Paul McCartney
Engineer Geoff Emerick in his book stating that George Martin, Norman Smith and *Paul McCartney* were all dissatisfied with Ringo's timekeeping on 4 Sept, his first appearance at the studio. McCartney got his way as well.
Well Ringo was no better than Pete for sure.
@@johnburns4017 I respectfully disagree, this was a business decision - not musical. As much as I marvel at Paul's talent and love his music, he's known to not have the best memory. Also, Ringo has always stated and George Martin confirmed, Andy was used due to the studio already hiring him for the session prior to George Martin's knowledge of Pete being replaced by Ringo.
See # 2:35 This was a suggested MEDLEY, a combination of those three songs as one piece... not a "suggested melody". You need to get a hold of Gerry Marsden's autobiography to fill in some bits you are missing about those days and about Pete. Gerry was there.
One the most incisive Beatles videos I've ever seen...full and detailed explanation of why Pete was dropped from the (to be) greatest band in the history of popular music. Fascinating.
Thank you.
Meanwhile, today most are gone and three are still enjoying themselves including Pete Best
He has said that too, and maybe he has been more fortunate than the others.
It was also the most important day in my life; it was the day I was born!
Oh wow, happy birthday! What a day to have your birthday on. 🎂
I was born that day too!
@@rickboardman6 Brilliant!!!
i got a question about the date George martin went to see them at the cavern. i thought this was in mind to record them for the first album and when that decision was made Pete best had already gone love me do had already been released and he thought they were great live as you say then obviously Ringo was playing for the band. Also when George Martin say if we make a record could be construed as if this arrangement is the final arrangement then he may have been thinking Pete wasn't up for the job. This particular part of their story is very cloudy, I'm not saying your right and what Mark Lewisohn discovered is wrong, there's a point where these two versions must meet and that's the cloudy bit Lol, i do love watching your vids dave and look forward to the next, and parts of the story like this of theirs is why we talk and talk about them still as well as what they eventually did .
You are right, that was my slip up! I am doing part 2 this weekend and correct myself on that. Well spotted mate!
As for the cloudy nature of this day, everyone apart from Mark Lewisohn in Tune In has said it was an artist test/ audition. He said they were under contract. They weren't. I went to the former top solicitor in Liverpool who explained it for me, clarifying what I knew, as I studied contract law many moons ago BB ( Before Beatles!!) This was definitely an artist test/ audition, and the confirmation is in Mark's earlier book, The Beatles Chronicles, where it shows the letter from George Martin to the execs to sign their half of the contract, and then he receives it back - it was around 18th June. So they were definitely not under contract. I knew working in an office for all those years would come in handy one day!! 😂
@@BrightmoonLiverpool Thanks for the reply's David, always great to chat Beatles look forward to next part take care.
I saw a comment about the Pete Beat situation from George Martin. He clearly stated that he told Lennon-McCartney that what they did in their shows was their business, but he wanted a tighter and more competent drummer for the recording sessions. Martin said Lennon and Mac had already been thinking the same thing. Trey replaced Best with Ringo.
If you watch Part 2 of the story, there is a clip of George Martin talking about what happened. He spoke to Brian about his concerns about recording with a session drummer. Brian then told John, Paul and George.
I wonder if you would have had so many views if the title had read 'The Beatles EMI Audition 6th June 1962 at Abbey Road with George Martin (ps this clip does not contain any sounds at all from The Beatles EMI Audition 6th June 1962 at Abbey Road with George Martin).
Sorry is this isn't what you were expecting. There are only 2 songs from the audition, so this is an analysis of this important day.
Very good research and analysis. Why not write a book about why things went the way they did in the early days?
Hi Doug, I have written several books on these early days, including Liddypool: Birthplace of the Beatles (now in 3rd edition), The Fab One Hundred and Four (2013) and, looking into these matters, Finding the Fourth Beatle (2018). Hoping to combine all of my research into one new book soon.
You can get these books in our bookshop - link in description - or from my website www.davidabedford.com
I kinda figured it WASN'T the ACTUAL recordings!
3:02 wasn't Love Me Do mostly a Paul work?
Yes it was
Really interesting video. But what is it with the subtitles? They're terrible! But why do you even need them if you have the proper ones as an option?
Sorry, I had a few people asking for subtitles, so tried it, but with TH-cam adding there's too, seems to be pointless. Trying to please as many as possible, especially those where English is a second language.
Also, Ringo's 1st contract wasn't an equal partner thing and he felt for a LONG time as if he was on trial. When he had to duck out for tonsillitis at the height of Mania and Jimmy Nicol filled in he was desperately afraid they would "pull a Pete" on him....implying that the knew business is business. He also knew once they hit America and he became the most popular Beatle that J & P were not too thrilled as they were "been there done that" with Pete. They had played second fiddle in fan's eyes to Pete in Liverpool - Ringo knew that dynamic. ☮
What are your sources for this comment?
@@Cosmo-Kramer A LOT of sources. I can't split the points up to specific sources but they include G Martin himself; HUNDREDS of books including the great Revolution In The Head by Ian MacDonald, all the Lewisohn and Babiuk books but more importantly I worked at Capitol in the 80s and as a Beatle geek I amassed a crapload of all the contracts (copies of course) going back to first try outs at EMI - why? Because all those points were part of contract re-negotiations. It's common knowledge Brian was a fu*k up - he was doing things with EMI and technically the Beatles weren't even signed at one point!! The Jimmy Nicol story alone when you read books is EYE OPENING about not only Jimmy's experience but how the Beatles and Brian dealt with stuff - pretty brutal which explains why Ringo ALWAYS carries that "andy white" chip on his shoulder. Ringo probably got word of the John and Jimmy pub crawling in the Netherlands literally crawling on the ground wasted at daybreak - all suppressed by the Press as this was height of Beatlemania - but John and Jimmy apparently got along pretty well and Ringo didn't want to let that happen hence the "pull a Pete" quip and him getting his ass to Australia to finish the tour....The most poignant scene being Ringo rejoined with Ringo AND Jimmy on the same balcony overlooking thousands of fans - you can see that on YT - and see in real time Jimmy getting the elbow. Brian woke his ass up at like 5AM when everybody was asleep and gave him a watch for thanks and put him on a jet before he could even SAY GOODBYE to the guys that he spent 13 unbelievable days with. Weird. Pete being most popular etc is easy - I have reprints of the Liverpool Mersey Beat and NME newspapers. When EMI signed the Beatles it was Pete's picture in the paper, not John or Paul's - enuff said. 🎸
@@cuda426hemi Gotcha, thanks for breaking much of that down. Let me get your understanding on a couple of things, if I may.
1) Who's on drums on the original October, 1962 single UK release of, "Love Me Do", and when was the track recorded?
2) Who's on drums on, "Love Me Do", on the 1963 release of the album, Please Please Me, and when was that version of, "Love Me Do", recorded?
@@Cosmo-Kramer common knowledge that if you hear a tambourine it's Andy White on drums. If you don't it's Ringo, except for Pete on the first version which is on Anthology. in UK it was Ringo on the 45, in USA it was Andy on Tollie label. Since I lived all this in real time I don't have to research much. The more interesting thing is who plays drums on the first Please Please Me...I say Andy White. 🎸
@@cuda426hemi Why is that an interesting question? Is not Ringo's tambourine clearly heard on the first, Please Please Me?
This was fascinating pal.
I still feel Ringo was “a great drummer” and the right choice ultimately. It’s one of the great unknowns of what would have been had Pete stayed on. The timing of his dismissal was so unfair. No one in retrospect however can say it wasn’t a great decision to bring Starr in.
Have you seen the documentary (I think his name was Joe Flannery) we’re he talks about Mona Best being “too intrusive into the Beatles affairs” and this rubbed the others up the wrong way? Maybe there was a personality clash too? After all he did join the band almost on a whim as they needed a drummer for the Hamburg journey. I think it was an amalgamation of things that resulted in his parting the greatest band to ever live. The straw that broke the camels back was George’s Martins comments. They were in the precipice of something and they were always “cut throat” when they needed to be.
An honesty of context is needed here too. “No one” could have foreseen what they became. It’s only in hindsight that we are having this conversation.
I’m glad Pete Best was rightfully remunerated with the anthology and those priceless memories can never be erased from time. Someone should make a movie about this man though. So crucial a part to the Beatles story and legacy as anybody.
🙏❤️🎸.x
Well said and I agree that nobody knew what they would become and looking back, the timing does make it extra cruel on Pete. Ringo was the perfect choice.
Unfortunately, with Joe Flannery, he was a highly unreliable eyewitness and exaggerated a lot of his contributions to the story sadly.
There was an element of Monas involved causing some discomfort to Brian, but Brian really didn't want to replace Pete, but had to concede to John Paul and George as their manager.
I will be looking at every suggestion put forward for Pete's "dismissal" in another video.
Thanks for contributing to the discussion it is much appreciated.
Ringo Starr at the time of being asked to join the Beatles was the best rock & roll drummer in Liverpool at the time and was playing in the top band in Liverpool. He had already played with the Beatles a few times in Hamburg (when Best missed gigs) so the rest of the Beatles already knew how great they'd sound with Ringo on drums. I believe they had planned this for a long time.
@@frankdiscussion2069 And that's why he was number 4 on their short list ....
I don't believe for one moment what Paul claims to have said about Pete in response to George Martin's comments. If Paul truly believed that the future of the Beatles hinged on getting a better drummer (which is what you seem to be saying), then he and the others would have required Ringo to audition in front of George Martin - and be approved by Martin - before he was allowed to become a member of the group. Nothing else would have made any sense if what Paul said is true. But a formal audition never happened. Instead, Ringo showed up on 4 September and started playing drums as if he were there to stay. George Martin has said he was appalled when he saw Ringo hitting the cymbals with the maracas. Plus, of course, he couldn't play LMD the way Martin wanted him to. Thankfully, all of this nonsense was finally brought to an end when Andy White was brought in on 11 September. Ringo was apparently the only member of the group who was upset about it.
Thanks for your comments. It was a business decision and if Bobby Graham, the first drummer they approached had said yes, it would have been fine, as he was also a session drummer. I am pretty sure that when they asked Ringo, John, Paul, and George were pretty certain that Ringo would not play on the record, though don't think they told him that. And they never asked George Martin's advice! That is strange too.
@@BrightmoonLiverpool Yes, David, you're right, the Threatles knew Ringo wasn't going to play on the record. They knew that because they'd played with Ringo a couple times and knew he wasn't better than Pete. And they knew that, if anything, Pete had considerably more studio experience than Ringo. But none of that mattered, because they weren't sacking Pete over his drumming skills, they were sacking him over their petty jealousies that Pete was, and had been for 2 years, the far and away most popular Beatle with the fans, the club managers, and the press. And they thought that huge gap between their popularity and Pete's was only going to grow exponentially once studio execs got control of the band's promotions.
Anyone know if there was ever an existing recording of “ will you still love me tomorrow?
My only observation here is: would they have dropped George if his playing had raised concerns? I don't think they would have, which confirms what I think we all know, and that is they didn't consider Pete an equal partner. Great vid as usual.
George's guitar playing at Decca was very average! But the Beatles were always John, Paul, and George as they had been together since the end of 1957! It took Ringo 12 months to break into their triumvirate and it was really Ed Sullivan and going to America that saw him fully settled in as an equal.
In addition to this video being educational, I see the headstock of a Fender bass over the narrator's right shoulder. We're on the same page. I'm playing P basses for 50 years! Best bass ever made IMHO
Thank you! Yes, a bass and a Strat too as I play both. Fantastic guitars.
Glad you enjoyed the video too! David
@@BrightmoonLiverpool The Strat is one of my two all time favorite guitars 🎸. You play the best instruments David
@@bwithrow011 I am very lucky! And I now get to play bass and acoustic guitar with The Quarrymen! How lucky am I?
@@BrightmoonLiverpool You are lucky indeed! I believe The Quarrymen later becoming The Beatles were the trail blazers. Just about every musician I know started playing because of The Beatles
What's a skip beat? I've been drumming for 65 years and have no idea what that is. I never heard of it until just now.
I think it refers to what Pete played in the middle eight section of LMD. I quite like it although I can hear it didn't work on that particular take.
@@brendanwalsh108 I'd have to hear it.
It is a term used by some musicologists relating to the variation of the tempo in the middle eight that makes a change in the rhythm.
Facinating blow by blow account Dave. Well done good to see you
Thanks Mike good to see you too.
The Beatles story is full of serendipity and coincidences. A recording contract was paramount to the Beatles and Brian Epstein, They all worked hard to get the chance to audition for one. It was fortunate that Brian came into the Beatles' lives when they were a club band and Brian got the Beatles the opportunity to audition for EMI after they were rejected by Decca. Everything was happening quickly. after a long time trying to climb the ladder to success. I don't think that John and Paul and George were actively trying to replace Pete until the audition process and George Martin's opinion about Pete's drumming skills as well the opinions of Norman Smith and Ken Townsend as you said. You did an excellent analysis and said things I didn't know about the Beatles story and how pivotal this day was and how it changed history.
Of course they weren't *"actively"* trying to replace Pete before the audition, they were using Pete and his immense popularity to build their name, until they secured a record deal. Once they got it, they replaced him--something they'd been planning on doing a long time.
Thanks Keith, a good summary too.
Sorry Cosmo, I know this is one we debate, but there isn't any evidence for that, unless you have more than just revisionist comments made many years later, which can't be corroborated?
The primary reason was what George Martin said. Once they decided they were going to replace Pete after the audition, they discussed whether they could do it, and started to justify it to themselves. That's when the reasons like not fitting in, the haircut, the girls etc none of which on their own were not enough to change one of the group. But not good enough to play on the records? That was a genuine reason to make a change.
@@BrightmoonLiverpool Well, given they didn't actually sack Pete for weeks after they knew they'd secured a contract -- a contract that contained no stipulations about replacing their drummer -- and given they had not even lined up a replacement drummer yet, once that contract came in, they could have very easily abandoned their plans to replace Pete. Sure, they knew it was still the case that Martin was going to use a session drummer. But there was no guarantee that Ringo, or a 17-year old Ritchie, would do any better in the studio. Particularly because JP&G where there on the 6th, and they know that Pete had that, "Love Me Do", song down, they'd played it, and practiced it. They knew, as Norman Smith acknowledged, that the only reason Pete struggled with that one song that day, was because of the out-of-the blue new arrangement (which Smith called "a really bad arrangement") Pete was being told to play.
No, JP&G each had their own individual reasons for wanting Pete out, and Martin's words merely gave them the pretext they needed to do the deed. Was it important to them that each band member play on the records? Yes, I do believe they wanted that. But again, they know Martin was selling Pete short, and that had it not been for that sudden arrangement change, Pete would've passed muster with him...actually, Richards, since you've pinpointed him as the one with issue. And Ron admits that he was basically asking Pete to do something too complex, and that once he saw Ringo's talent level, he realized Ringo couldn't have pulled it off, either. Even Eppy said he didn't agree with Martin's assessment of Pete's drumming ability.
Again, JP&G had no reason to believe that Ringo would've fared any better in the studio -- which, of course, he didn't. Even with the advantage over Pete, of being able to practice the new arrangement (the only one he ever knew) for at least a fortnight, he still wasn't good enough according to both Martin and Macca for the official recording. Obviously, JP&G didn't know Ringo would fail in his first attempt to pass muster with Martin. But there was no reason to believe he would succeed. Was Ringo ever even in the studio? Did he have as much studio experience as Pete did? No, he did not. And since we know they were roughly on par with each as great rock 'n roll live drummers, taking on a relative unknown like Ringo and sacking Pete based on Martin's comments was a *very* thin reason. I daresay, no reason at all. I say the long-existing jealousies drove the decision. Martin just gave them cover, someone to point the finger to, to blame, to cool the heat which they knew would be put on them.
Don't forget what Allan Williams said about Pete's first gig as a Beatle when they arrived in Hamburg in August of 1960, *"After the show when I saw all the girls run right past Paul and the others to swarm around Pete, I said to myself, "Well, he's not going to last long"."* But he did last a good while. Two years. But that's only because he was so damn good, the band gelled musically like it never had before, and his immense popularity brought tons of attention to the band. JP&G were gonna ride that wave until they got a record deal, and then replace him with a drummer who would not steal the spotlight from them.
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@@Cosmo-Kramer The Beatles had known Ringo from the early days, playing the same clubs in Liverpool and Hamburg. I feel sorry for Pete Best too, and I don't hear any problem with his drumming on "Love Me Do" on the Anthology release. Ringo was the drummer for the Liverpool band Rory and the Hurricanes and many people thought Ringo was a really good drummer. When the Beatles asked Ringo to join them, Ringo wasn't sure he wanted to leave Rory, but he thought about it and decided to join the Beatles. Pete was a friend and bandmate to John, Paul and George and I think it was painful for them to decide to replace Pete. I don't think there was anything nefarious or traitorous about it.
The day they walked into EMI with Ringo was the day everything changed for Pete? He had already been fired? Everything changed in August when he was thrown out.
This is the very first time I've seen the set list for that audition.. Do you have the set list die the decca sessions too?
Yes, and will do a full analysis of it too soon. We have the recordings from that day thankfully.
@@BrightmoonLiverpool wow I'm impressed and thank you for your reply
Great presentation, and story. If I had to critique anything it would be the abrupt ending. A gentler ending would have topped off this video nicely... *: )* JMO of course.
Thank you. Didn't want to waffle on! 😂
Right, Ringo was a genius! I’m amazed everytime I hear a Beatles tune how he actually manages to make the song better. Not too much just right!
Absolutely. He knew the right rhythm for the right song.
Didn't they do Red sails in the sunset, in Germany?
Yes, it was a regular back then.
@@BrightmoonLiverpool I have the cassette.
I was trying to remember June 1962. I had just finished 6th grade with a prediction from my teacher that I would end up in prison. Instead I ended up in Grosse Pointe. Podunksville to OZ. That's what I remember about June 1962.
Ha ha memories!
Brilliant and spot on David. a great historic insight and explanation.
Thanks Ralph
Pete Best was literally on the cusp of fame and fortune back to driving a delivery van within days. Goodness knows how he must have felt but I think he's picked up a small sum in royalties now. Do you have a link for Part 2? I looked on your channel listings but couldn't see it.
I know, it was hard for him indeed. Here is the link to Part 2 th-cam.com/video/_c0w53rM7CI/w-d-xo.html
Thanks
What is a skip beat? I am a drummer and I don't know this term.
It is the change in rhythm that Pete does going into the bridge "Someone to love" that seems to skip
Hmm, it all seems like a shuffle to me, and the beat in the verse and bridge are nearly identical. It seems odd that any experienced drummer would not be able to do both of them, or switch between them. Ringo is a fantastic and underrated drummer, and he was the right drummer for the band. But his genius is more about feel than technique. I think that if Pete Best couldn't make that transition in the audition, it was probably just nerves, and the producers were in a hurry and didn't want to explain to him what they wanted. As you said in the video, they were tough judges of drummers.
Also, Ringo was right for the band because he wasn't a prima donna. If you watch Get Back, you will see that he is clearly the most professional member of the group -- he always did what he needed to do. That is under-appreciated. Too many drummers try to do too much. Ringo always did just enough. I have deep respect for him, and I wish I could do a fast shuffle ride like he does!
@heathermeeker5298 You make mkre excellent points. Ron Richards was always going to use a session drummer as was proved when Ringo wasn't good enough for him either.
I agree about Ringo's style, too. He always knew the right feel and right beat for the song and just because there was silence, it didn't mean it had to be filled!
Interesting video, thank you. Do you think that George Martin could have had session musicians record all the instruments, not just the drums? Especially for Rubber Soul?
Once they had got into the swing of 1963 and expanding their requirements, it was more about who to add as opposed to replacing the main four. That was never in question, but they were happy to step back if the arrangement needed it eg She's Leaving Home on which none of them played.
Did you say that John, Paul, and George asked 4 others to be their drummer, and Ringo was the one who accepted? What 4 others? I don't think that is correct. Martin said, 'No Pete on sessions,' John, Paul, and George said let's get Ringo. Ringo said yes, and Pete was fired. Ain't no '...other four.' Tell me, what other 4?
There was a period of confusion because it looked like Ringo - who the band were interested in but not dead-set on - wouldn't be able to join due to commitments; the band knew the session-drummer thing seemed like a reality, so they asked around with an eye to hiring another drummer, Johnny Hutchison from the Big Three and Bobby Graham from Joe Brown And The Bruvvers being two of the 4 in your question - there was also the 3 days between the Wednesday and Saturday in mid-August 1962 after Pete had been fired and said he would honor their commitments but never showed up again, so they borrowed Johnny Hutchison to (reluctantly) help out. You really need to read the "Undesirable Member" chapter in Mark Lewison's "Tune In", that will tell you everything!
I can tell you even more than Tune In as I found all four and corroborated them in my book, Finding the Fourth Beatle, with a stunning discovery!
Bobby Graham was the first to be asked, and he was a great session drummer and live drummer too, but he was never going to quit London and his gig to move to Liverpool to join a band he'd never heard of who had just got a record deal. Mark Lewisohn suggests it was a temporary offer until Ringo was free, but that isn't true. It was a permanent offer to replace Pete Best. The second to be asked was a local drummer, Ritchie Galvin from Earl Preston and the TTs. A great drummer. He said no. Then Ringo was asked on a Saturday and said yes. Brian confirmed it on the Tuesday, Pete was given the bad news on the Wednesday afternoon and at first promised to play that night. He didn't.
As Johnny Hutchinson was playing with the support band, the Big Three, he was asked to sit in with The Beatles. After the gig, Hutch was offered the permanent position in the Beatles by Brian and Bob Wooler. This was the day after Ringo had accepted the role, though Peter Brown said that Ringo was hired on probation initially. Interesting eh?
I would love to hear that version of 'Will you love me tomorrow' sang by Lennon. That's one of the greatest songs ever written, and John was probably the greatest RnR singer at the time. Though the world didn't know it yet.
The whole thing seems to be about getting that recording contract and taking George Martin's "advice". They would do what it took. Ringo wasn't even the next consideration. But as it all turned out. The right decisions were made during that time of June 6th to a signed contract later in June and the eventual recordings on September 4th.
A perfect summation, thank you. They would have done anything to get that contract and if it meant sacrificing the drummer, they would do it. Paul says it was a tough decision, but they had to do something.
It's 60 years too late, but I think it would have been cool to have Paul and George both sing the "love me do" line in harmony when John went to the harmonica. As crazy as it sounds I can practically hear it in my head.
With 2 tracks to play with, they had to keep it simple for the first song. I am sure it would have come naturally to them, though.
"If i want to make a record, I want to have my own drummer, wich won`t make any difference to you as noone will know who`s on the record anyway" George Martin - This does NOT mean he is thinking of Ringo, like the fanboys in the older comments might assume....😉
Exactly right, thanks for that.
When someone is masterfully speaking, like in this case George Martin, people fill in the blanks with their own imagination, which is totally normal, especially when they are influenced by mass media fairytales....
George never said that Richard Starkey was "his own drummer" but that`s what Beatles Fans "Want to Believe" cause it fits in their narrative....@@BrightmoonLiverpool
Great history and this seems well researched. My only quibble is that not enough here is noted about empirically obvious difference in skill level between Ringo and Pete. As a musician myself, playing for many decades professionally, I can say without any reservation that Pete's playing was many levels below Ringo's. Not only in keeping time (something for which Best was notoriously bad), but also in terms of knowing what to play to suit the song. His "4 on the floor" kick drum was completely out of place on some of the band's songs. Bert Kaempfert realized this, and the troubles in time-keeping back in the Tony Sheridan recordings in Hamburg in 1961, when he took the kick drum (and toms) away from Pete...
Kaempfert didn't have any issues with Pete's timing, the only reason he took part of his kit away was because Pete's drumming was too loud for his tastes, as a 40-someting Easy Listening producer. And as for your comparison of Pete and Ringo, how me one recording of Ringo that was made during or before Pete's tenure. You can't, because there are none. You're comparing apples to oranges.
Glad you enjoyed it.
The problem with comparing Pete to Ringo in 1962 is that you can only use the evidence from 1962 and earlier, and not the great recordings Ringo went on to create. At that time, according to the many musicians I have spoken to, including drummers, although they had different styles, there was little between Pete and Ringo. Neither were regular enough to impress George Martin. Paul has said how Ringo wasn't thst steady on time jn 62 but became so reliable, so we have to be careful.
Kaempfert also didn't remove the drums from Pete because he couldn't play. It was because Kaempfert never used heavy drums of any sort in his recordings. It wad easy listening schlager music, not rock n roll. So he asked Pete to only use his snare and hi-hat. When you listen to My Bonnie, Pete's timing and speed of drum roll are very impressive. Mike Smith at Decca also didn't have a problem with Pete's drumming, and he is very good at Decca, unlike his fellow Beatles! So we have to take a balanced view in 1962.
I have played with many drummers over the last 40+ years and you know very quickly who can and can't keep time. If he was so unreliable, John, Paul and George would not have kept Pete for 2 years.
When you look at the first couple of Beatles albums, Ringo isn't doing anything spectacular because the music was quite straightforward. But he came into his own by 1965 Ringo was so inventive and creative, but we didn't know that back in 1962.
LOL about the 4 on the floor. Makes me shudder to think.
@@heathermeeker5298 agreed! It would have been nasty for some of the material they were playing which required shuffles, swing etc. All things Pete was not able to do.
Time is weird! 18 years to the day of the Normandy invasion.
Yes. A sort of Beatles D-Day because of the change it brought.