My best memory of my rural grandparent is creating a one inch twisted rope manually with a bunch of sisal. I then used this rope with a tripod to pull a '73 MGB motor for rebuild. Thanks Papa.
10:18 There is also the consideration that a merchant's sailing evolutions are going to be considerably more leisurely -- for the most part, you aren't going to need to brace the yards around on all three masts as fast as possible so the other broadside can be brought to bear on an equally-maneuvering target; this allows you to reduce the number of topmen and line haulers, bringing the crew numbers down even further. Now, this carries the limitation of, should you _need_ to adjust all sail quickly on a merchie, what crew you have will be working their asses off, but the goal is to plan ahead enough that you don't have to.
23:31 (HMS Cerberus) Or, build a coffer damn round the ship, carefully drain away the water while taking appropriate steps for preservation, and FLOOD FILL IT WITH RESIN. Remove the coffer dam, polish up the exterior surfaces, and presto!, world's largest paperweight.
35m50s: As an observation, I believe by WW2, the USN was using the same system for the airwing they used postwar to the current day. The airwing is assigned to a carrier, but is a separate entity. So its not just a matter of swapping out a squadron to update the ship, that airwing is a distinct unit trained to operate together. The carrier is their assignment and outside of learning the unique characteristics of operating from the specific design, they are interchangeable. I would imagine much like what I saw when the squadrons were transitioning to tomcats, its not a casual thing to swap aircraft out unless perhaps its for sub-types, and even then, the squadron would want all the same type outside of very specific circumstances such as A-6 squadrons also having a couple of KA-6 tankers. and until an airwing is rotated out, they are somewhat locked into what they have, not just because of because of training, but also because the logistics embarked for the airwing are specific for their needs to maximize the space they have on the ship. I doubt they had any interest in outside of wartime to swap out a squadron without cycling the airwing ashore/home to rebuild it around new types and capabilities.
I had just spent this day reading up on a few different naval aviation units (mostly the different jolly rogers and the red devils) and had wondered about the whole units switching ships thing. Your observations here helped me understand that a little bit better. Much appreciated.
For Nurgle I nominate the late Ottomon navy or the Soviets, for both of whom proper maintanance seem to have been foreign concepts, allowing their ships to rot away under the boots of their crews. For Slaanesh, you could take Admiral Lee... now before people get out their pitchforks and torches, remember that Slaanesh is the patron of ANY kind of excess. The reason why the Emperor's Children "Legion" fell to Slaanesh, was because of their strife to become the perfect warriors, not for any gluttony related issues... most of them anway. And to me it seems like Admiral Lee quite excessively obsessed over anything ballistic, be it small-arms or large scale artillary, to very positive effects on the ships he commanded.
While Drach didn't go into detail about why Yamato's 460mm triple turrets are so absurdly heavy, the reason is that they've got absurd armor. The turret faces were a whopping *650mm (26 inches)* thick. I think that is the thickest armor plate ever built, and it's certainly the thickest ever put on a ship. (Bunkers, even those designed to protect against nuclear attack, are not made of a single steel plate. So I'm presuming none of them have a plat as thick as Yamato and Musashi's turret faces.) I can't find any data for what the Number 13's turret face thickness would've been, but seeing as the proceeding Kii-class would've had 356mm turret faces, the most this is likely to have been upgraded to would be 380 to 410mm. I'm assuming they would've been upgraded in some way, since when you upgrade from 410mm to 460mm guns you'll want more armor as well. But the general design trend in Japan's pre-treaty battleships was for much thinner turret armor than was seen in the 1930s designs that led to Yamato.
My hot take on 40k parallels: Khorne - yes, basically everything aggressive and deadly. Including also pointless deaths. Tzeentch - so, basically everything convoluted and off the books. Including also self defeating plans. Nurgle - so, basically everything annoying and relentless. Including also literal self defeating. Slaanesh - so, basically slackers and luxurious. It doesn't need to be only about "fun" time.
Haha was just reading up on a lesser known but no less important group in the US navy that were very instrumental in the battle of the Solomons on the enterprise. Prior to the Solomons the enterprise docked at Noumea and Halsey was told it will take 3 weeks to complete repairs. Halsey said you have 10 days and assigned 75 sebees from B Co. 3 CB along with 40 sailors from the Vestal and they completed the repairs in 11 days which allowed the enterprise to launch aircraft sinking the Hiei. Goes to show give seabees a task and SEABEES CAN DO.
In regards to the last question about the chaos Gods: There was a story, not sure how based it is on fiction versus non-fiction, but it was about German soldiers who became POW's. They had to sail from France to the US on a prisoner ship. Most of those men had never been on a sea voyage, and the tales of how sick they all were, for nearly two weeks certainly would've entertained Nurgle. The descriptions of the sights, sounds and smells would be upsetting to most readers, lest they have a gundanium stomach.
What was Spanish gunnery of the time like? That could have a major bearing on the battle as the USN struggled to get even 0.5% hits from heavy and medium calibre guns
Yeah I agree when you look at the battles in the Spanish American war, gunnery was genuinely embarrassing for both sides, the Spanish only having the excuse of a lack of practice rounds (from my memory). So if the Spanish had good gunnery practice is this imagined scenario, I imagine it could go very different
In fairness, virtually no one in the 1890s had good gunnery beyond a few ships whose captains made good gunnery a personal concern. The problem was most everyone, even the Royal Navy, found the costs of firing even inert ammunition out of guns to be a very expensive thing to do, so most minimized live-fire of any kind. You can find more than a few captains and admirals arguing that as long as the gun crews were well-drilled in loading, that was good enough, and loading drills only cost time which the sailors had plenty of to start with! @@Alex-cw3rz
Nor was the USN able to make up in volume of fire what they lacked in accuracy, since both the 12" and 13" guns took at least 5 minutes to load. Not that a trio of Pelayos would've done any better if they'd been available to the Spanish, since their 32cm guns also took 5 minutes to reload. And that's a best-case scenario; the same gun in Japanese service took an *hour* to reload when they were used in combat in the First Sino-Japanese War (though it's possible this had a lot to do with cramming such a large gun onto a 4,200 ton cruiser, which presumably caused more cramped quarters for the gun crew).
I do wonder what additional restraints might have been affecting the IJN by mid-1943 due to oil shortages. Those were already an issue in 1941. A larger IJN will go through any stockpiled reserves even faster. Plus more time for the UK to reinforce Singapore and the USA to reinforce the Philippines. And if the Allies are declaring war they are in a much better position to react to Japanese moves and have intact bases much closer to Japan. A much different war I suspect.
Two things; 1st you mentioned the US squadron got spread out chasing the Spanish at Santiago The US fleet consisted of the Armored Cruiser USS Brooklyn, the Battleships USS Iowa and the 3 Indiana class as well as the turret ship USS Texas. They had speeds of; USS Brooklyn-21.9kts, USS Iowa-16kts, Indiana class-15kts, USS Texas-17.8kts Where the Spanish armored Cruiser had speeds of; Infanta Maria Teresa-20.2kts class Cristobal Colon-20kts meaning only the Brooklyn could keep up with them at a full open run. The fact is that had they left on a moonless night, perhaps with a diversionary torpedo boat attack to cover the Cruisers they probably would have gotten away. They stupidly charged out at high noon and got blasted. Even then one ship did almost get away until she ran out of her supply of hard coal and visibly slowed down when she started burning the softer reserve coal (the Spanish War) this allowed Brooklyn to keep up till she scored a hit on her main steam pipes and she lost power.. Meanwhile all the slower Battleships and Texas were strung out behind trying to keep up. If you sub in 4 Pelayo class Battleships, I highly doubt Spanish gunnery will be any better and the Battleships will have a top speed of 16.2kts allowing the Iowa and Texas to keep up, the Indianas to stay fairly close with only a little over 1 knot difference while Brooklyn with her nearly 6 knot advantage could pull ahead and heard them into the other battleships while crossing their T. No the US squadron wouldn’t be strung out against them they would herd them into a killing field 2nd your reason for the Fast Battleship layout was right to begin with. It was because of the initial single turret plans. Both ways the fore and aft turrets get pretty-much the same arcs of fire, very similar to the 4-turret configurations of the KGVs, Vanguard and rebuilt Tennessee/West Virginia. It’s the central turret that makes the difference. In the current layout that turret has a very limited broadside arc and is pretty-much useless fore and aft, where a reverse configuration would allow that turret to be placed slightly further outboard than the other 2 giving it about a 180 degree arc of fire, or close to it. So the reverse configuration would actually provide a better potential arc of fire overall.
Your mention of the lack of crew amenities on the Royal Navy's WW1 era construction battleships got me thinking: I'm a former USS Virginia CGN38 sailor, and one of the things that made the ship's last several years where we were cruising in more tropical waters than the designed for North Atlantic/Pacific to fight the glorious Soviet Navy, we were very aware that the steam piping in the engine rooms seemed laid out to counter the expected cooling of frigid waters in those environments. It left us with a rather warmer engineering spaces than we might have preferred. But we had space that made it possible to consider putting steam piping in areas where parasitic heat losses would add to crew comfort, while leaving generally plenty of room to work around everything in the steam plant. I've seen steam plants on engine rooms aboard US Museum ships of the era. The absolute disparity in free volume for those spaces, and the ones I served with are mind-boggling. Most recently I was aboard USS The Sullivans before her mishap last year, and the whole of the open engine room had all these walkways with tight clearances around everything and little spots where even after making the space fit for the public, there were still tight clearances. I am now imagining what sort of sweltering Hell the engineering spaces on something like HMS Royal Sovereign would have been like during their time in the Indian Ocean. eek
11:30 I don't recall if it was Melville or Marryat or Dana, but in one of the period maritime books the author has a couple of characters spend a significant time comparing and contrasting merchant versus naval service. What it came down to was the discipline wasn't too different but naval service was physically easier.
So the Montana class final designs had their secondaries in the M style configuration. The closest I can figure from my research is that wearly-mid way through the design period they were going to put a heavier secondary battery in, and one of the layouts was to put six twin 6" dual-purpose auto-loading guns on the deck, three per side with the center raised over the other two. This design seemed to have progressed the furthest before being dropped because it was felt that, even with 6" auto-loaders, a six-gun broadside lacked the shell volume to stop a focused air strike. Five twin 5"/38 were lighter and threw more shells per minute and were immediately available, so they replaced the 6" turrets on a one-to-one and built some extentions to the superstructure to mount the others (although they would later be upgraded to 5"/54). For my sources: most of what I know about American battleships comes from a book I used to own called "U.S. Battleships: An Illustrated Design History" by Norman Friedman.
@@ROBERTN-ut2il nope. They started off with the 5"/38, but pretty early on the board wanted something with better anti-ship preformance, so they tried 6" DP guns but were never quite satisfied with them, and ended up designing the 5"/54 as a compromise of the two earlier guns. (The 6" gun was still a promising design though and it saw continued development, becoming the main armament of the post-war Worcester class)
1:00:30 maybe some aspects of the 2nd pacific squadron (voyage of the damned) may also apply to Nurgle, or maybe almost all of the chaos gods, lol. "do you see torpedo boats?" lol.
On the last question: What about Malal? Would it be the IJA's ship that followed a completely different chain of command from the IJN? The folks behind the Mk14 torpedo? Something else?
Just one point regarding those 6 “Pelayo”. Yes with hindsight they would have been a much better choice to fight the Americans in 1898, but that’s with hindsight: it could be argued that building more of the cheaper armour cruisers, as they did, was a better option for the Armada in the late 1880s. In 1885 the Carolinas crisis with Germany almost brought both countries to war and forced the Spaniards to face the urgent need for a modern fleet capable of reaching the Pacific if necessary. To that end, ironclads were not suitable, particularly without coaling stations (they did try to acquire coaling facilities from the Italians in Eritrea but it didn’t work). So the best solution at the time seemed to get armour cruisers capable to move strategically to the Caribbean or to the Pacific that could be used as a battle fleet against a smaller enemy or to follow Jeune Ecole tactics in Europe against a more powerful enemy. The design was an improved version of the still building for the RN Orlando class (they would also build a bigger cruiser based on the Blake class). Unfortunately the Orlando were becoming outdated very quickly mainly due to the arrival of QF secondary guns, and so would be the new Spanish cruisers. In any case, again hindsight may mistake our way of looking at things: looking as if we were in the 1880s, the US was a rich country but imbued of a continental mentality, later called isolationism (until then, the US economy had grown increasing its own resources and markets: the conquest of the West, the Rush to California etc) and so the USN had never been but a coastal defence force. Consequently, there was a huge opposition in the country to the new calls to fund a massive blue water fleet as an unnecessary very expensive wasteful novelty. In any case, their best ships, Texas and Maine were just being ordered and many years would pass before their completion (they themselves where built in response to Brazil acquiring 2 similar ironclads in Britain). And beyond them there’s not clear what the Americans would do or how fast their navy would grow. The other two potential enemies were China and Japan, but China, in spite of having the strongest navy in the area, was not thought to be very aggressive, while Japan was building just smaller protected cruisers. So the 6 armour cruisers and 4 protected cruisers the Spanish were planning were thought to be openly superior and capable to face any future threat from the US, China or Japan. And they were probably right. Of course what happened was that the Spaniards built their ships very slowly while the Americans, influenced by Mahan and knowing the Spanish building plan, built a brand new much better fleet of battleships just ready in 1898 with the consequences we all know. To be fair, by then the Spaniards were hopelessly overtaken by the Japanese too, who in 1897 they finally had taken delivery of their 2 superb Fuji class battleships.
27:13 if Force Z survived as by your video on Force Z, they would have been reinforced by 4 revenge class battleships, a Carrier, 17 cruisers and eventually 2 Nelson class battleships. I think at that point the IJN could not just send the 4 Kongos, in fact the entire pre Yamato force of battleships and battlecruisers would fail against that force. And if Force Z survived 88 land based aircraft well known for their anti-ship ability, sending only part of the Kidō Butai against a much larger force. That as Operation Halberd showed a much smaller force was able to brush away 130 land based aircraft with a lot of experience. This would not go well at all for Japan.
HMS Audacity was the prize of war SS Hannover and was sunk off Spain on a convoy run. The famous pilot Eric "Winkle" Brown was a survivor. He took advantage of his survivors' leave to get married and go on a honeymoon - though not to a Spanish resort en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Audacity
I think we have to nominate the 2nd Pacific Squadron as some sort of collective avatar of Chaos Undivided: Khorne: Leaving aside the tendency to shoot at anything even vaguely unidentified, we have Admiral Rozhestvensky's entries in the binocular hurling contest and contributions to naval epithets. Tzeentch: The WHOLE IDEA. Plus the attempts to avoid the 3rd Pacific Squadron. Nurgle: At least in his aspect as God of Despair, given the mood aboard ship. Plus there was that time the refrigerators failed... Slaanesh: Did someone mention 1,000...exotic...cigarettes? And the floating menagerie? And then we have the Kamchatka, which may have ascended as the minor Chaos God of 'You WHAT?!'...
Although I can't top the above brilliant list my thoughts on the matter are: Khorne: IJN particularly in the late war Slaanesh: The French Navy, who else have wine cellars aboard warships. Tzeentch: The Royal Navy for deciphering everybody's communications, even our allies. Nurgle: The Imperial Russian Navy as the 2nd Pacific Squadron wasn't unique in its lack of hygiene. See Battleship Potemkin.
This is a great idea, but I think Tzeentch wouldn't want anything to do with the 2nd Pac Squad circus. While the other chaos gods go "help" Rozhestvensky, I could see Tzeentch goin to Admiral Togo and saying "For just the small price of your "friendship" to me, I can tell you EXACTLY where and when the Russians will appear......
A lot of things are more Infanta Maria Teresa class-including my Volvo is a classic Drachism. Although in fairness to Volvo those estate cars will probably outlast the death of the sun theyll just be retrofitted with rockets but still merily chug along carrying peoples dogs in the back to social events.
"If Renown and Repulse replaced Hiei in the night battle of Guadalcanal could they have made it out and could they have done more damage?" I think they would have done a lot more damage as the IJN would have been shocked to find them in their battle line, blasting away at the other IJN ships. The Americans would still have been blasting away in all directions, and given what San Francisco did to Atlanta, they probably would have suffered some friendly fire from the USN. 😉 ("Sometimes I crack myself up.")
Spain didn't pay reparations to the US. The US paid $20 million to Spain (about $728 million in today's money). The US also paid the Vatican $7,239,000 ($263.4 million today) to buy the Spanish friars' extensive land holdings - the Filipinos hated these friars and the US feared they would be massacred, which would lead to all kinds of problems with the Vatican. This land was distributed to Filipinos.
Strange , a vast quantity of land was appropriated by the USA. The Philippines remain a Roman Catholic country to this day. I suggest you read the The General's General: The Life And Times Of Arthur Macarthur
@@benwilson6145, yeah, what's your point? The Catholics ‘converted’ them by mμrdering anyone who didn't, so of course the one's still alive would have the same ideology. Don't be a Spanish apologist.
Not sure about all the details, but a Catholic Church that holds many thousands of acres of land is a very large political/economic force. Without the land holdings the Church becomes a very less potent force. And the US of the time was at best wary of the Catholic Church, if not actually hostile to it.
I would like to know more about Admiral William S. Pye. Interim commander of the Pacific Fleet between Kimmel and Nimitz. I am aware of his involvement in the Honda Point Incident, (Destroyers on the Rocks,) his brief command at Pearl, (including the controversy over the failure to relieve Wake Island,) and I believe command of Battle Force One off California, after his relief by Nimitz; but that's it. I don't think anyone has ever written a book about him.
A clipper was a type of mid-19th-century merchant sailing vessel, designed for speed rather than capacity. Clippers were generally narrow for their length, small by later 19th-century standards, could carry only a limited amount of high value freight, and had a large total sail area. In addition they carried would be miners who would pay a premium to get there first to the California and Australian Gold Rushes It made a terrible warship as it's carrying capacity for ordnance, munitions, stores such as food and water for the men needed to man any guns, etc was too small.
Technically, wouldn't the first battleships to have no casemates is HMS Dreadnought? Since she had all of her secondary guns (such as they were, being mere 12-pdrs) in open mounts either on the deck or on top of the main gun turrets. (The Lord Nelson-class pre-dreadnoughts also had no casemates, with the 9.2" secondary guns in turrets and the 12-pdr tertiary battery as open mounts. But they weren't actually completed until after Dreadnought, in part because their original main guns and turrets were swiped for Dreadnought to speed up her construction.)
Personally i would say the Japanese Naval High Command could also be Khorne considering how much time they spend trying to fight the Japanese Army and each other
I’d look more at the sheer amount of insane (and often not for the better) ideas they had, like the “pre-build a bunch of ready-for-conversion carrier hulls as liner and auxiliary hulls” idea.
Her other mast is at the US Naval Academy, 36.9 miles away. Which leads to the plebe's having to respond "USS Maine" to the question "What is the longest ship in the US Navy?"
Regarding the Cerberus- I think a cheaper solution would be to take that coffer dam idea and instead of draining the water, gradually REPLACE the water with fresh water. Finally leaving the wreck as a permanently freshwater wreck in the middle of a salt water environment. Then extend that pier so people can visit and see the ship as they do on the USS Arizona, but it doesn't require a regular upkeep and staff. It just remains an interesting thing for people to go out and look at if they want.
Cerberus is unsavable. The hull has been pounding on hard packed sand for nearly 100 years, There have been two surveys which have found that the internal bulkheads have collapsed - basically the bottom third of the hull is now rubble. BTW, it's HMVS Cerberus. HMAS Cerberus is a shore establishment located at Flinders where sailors undergo basic training.
For Khorne, I'd say it's shared between the Japanese and the Americans for some very aggressive fighting. Honorable mention to the Japanese soldiers who refused to accept the war was over for years, and Taffy 3. Also, they'd fight over who gets it and that would make the Blood God happy. For Tzeentch, I'd divide it between the Germans and the Japanese, the former for their approach to ship design and high pressure machinery, the latter for their approach to grand strategy. Nergal I think would be more at home in the land campaigns in the Pacific theater. The Slaanesh Award, aside from 'sailors on shore leave', would be for the US navy, because Slaanesh approves of barges built specifically for soda and ice cream. The real question is, who'd get the Chaos Undivided award?
If Force Z survived 88 land based aircraft that were well known for their anti-ship ability. I don't think it would be very wise sending part of the Kidō Butai after them espcially with their reinforced force. Which as per your video on Force Z would have been 4 revenge class, 1 carrier, 17 cruisers and 2 Nelson Class battleships, as shown by the Halberd Convoy that's a good way to lose lots of airmen for nothing and that was against 130 Land based aircraft that were very experienced.
@@warwatcher91 yeah this plan was made in 1941. When this would have been done it would leave 2/3 King George V, 4 QE's, HMS Renown. 5 fleet Carriers, about 50+ Cruisers with more coming online, all in the med, Atlantic and Home waters.
How viable would the ship "Atlantico" from World of Warships have been, if it were actually built? Would this have been more akin to a "modern" pre-dreadnought in terms of firepower distribution?
"A lot of things are considerably more survivable than the Infanta Maria Theresa class, including my Volvo" Now I have an image of Drach happily fitting large caliber guns to his Volvo...
🤔😕 ummm... I've looked under "Battleships" and "Pre-dreadnoughts"... Also ran search for "Drachinifel Pelayo"... No results. Does anyone know if Drach did a 5 minute guide on Pelayo?
Thanks for answering my question! The big question was if the Japanese might try to PH Force Z (send the Kido Butai after them), though the Kido Butai might be reserved for what the Japanese would see as higher-value targets. And while sending Yamato against Force Z would go against Japanese doctrine, the entire idea of striking PH and fighting offensively rather than defensively went against the Kantai Kessen doctrine anyways, and depending on how well the Kongos do against Force Z the Japanese might feel their hand has been forced. Re: underrated admirals, I’d go with Mitscher, Lee, Ramsay, and Ozawa as my top picks. Maybe Oldendorff as well.
If Force Z could survive 88 land based aircraft which were well-known for their anti-ship capability. Let alone the reinforcements for Force Z which was to be 4 Revenge class, 1 Carrier, 17 Cruisers, and eventually the 2 Nelson Class battleships. Sending the Kidō Butai in would probably been a good way to lose most of the Kidō Butai. It would probably turn into an Operation Halberd but the Japanese in the place of the Italians, if the Japanese do not send in the entire Kidō Butai. On surface ship front The entire pre Yamato Battleships and Battlecruisers could not take on this force.
@@Alex-cw3rz Not sure if they would actually lose the entire Kido Butai even in that scenario, though they might not be able to deal with the reinforced Force Z. Even assuming the Japanese don’t sink anything, the Kido Butai isn’t at risk of being caught by the British surface capital ships and has a massive numerical advantage over the one British carrier (the worst-case scenario for the Japanese would be a night raid by said British carrier, but I doubt that would be able to sink the entire Kido Butai in one go). Pilot losses would be more of an issue, but seeing as the massive Japanese pilot attrition of 1942 came mostly courtesy of American fighters during the Guadalcanal campaign that’s still not going to be as big of a problem as it was at, say, Santa Cruz. And most importantly-the Regia Marina still exists and is causing problems in the Med in early 1942 and would continue to be an issue up until early 1943, so the question of if the British could actually send that many ships remains.
@@bkjeong4302 you wouldn't lose it all of course but you would have high loses. Apart from as you said the night fighting and with a much larger Royal navy force they may find the carriers at night and go Cape Matapan on them, as Summerville almost did historically with the Revenge class. The number of aircraft lost and damaged would be rather high for the Kido Butai from anti-aircraft and fighters from the Carrier, the Kido Butai will lose at least a fleet Carriers entire worth of aircraft and aircrew, with a huge number damaged and with the two anti-aircraft gods of Hms Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse that they would have to have been to survive 88 land based aircraft. That could be another Carriers worth of aircraft lost and damaged to those two alone. Then we have the counter attack from the Royal Navy force which as you say would probably come at night and if it finds the Japanese force that will be devastating. If it doesn't then nothing happens. Those ships were what was earmarked during 1941 with the Italians strength in the Med. For example all the Revenges and a Carrier in the end did come down to the Indian Ocean, not sure how many of the Cruisers did. The Nelsons didn't and this is because without Repulse and Prince of Wales, they couldn't do what they originally wanted which was to be an offensive force in the region.
@@Alex-cw3rz the issue is that even during a night attack against the Kido Butai, the only ships that will actually be able to attack the Kido Butai is the one carrier. The idea of the RN being able to catch the Kido Butai with battleships is rather questionable to say the least; it was entirely down to dumb luck that the two forces ended up that close together during the Indian Ocean Raid, and even if they did, there is the problem of the battleships being able to start opening up on the carriers before the escorting Japanese destroyers notice what’s happening and tell the carriers to run away.
I think USS Cairo style preservation could work for Cerberus, although probably keeping her in situ inside of the mentioned cofferdam. Because I don't think she'd survive being moved from her site, unless she was cut to pieces and reassembled somewhere else.
I understand that it is the oldest (semi) surviving monitor in the world, bizarrely beached in the middle of a city of five million people. They should be able to find the money for that?
On the question of various typoes of planes on pre wra carriers in the US navy,, it's largely becuase they had so many different types of planes. douring the inter war years tyhe US as was everyone else who doing carriers, were doing lots and lots of experiments to figure out just what to do with carriers, and also with their airplanes. USa navy was coming out with a new plane design almost every year. gong into the early thirties, Because they were still trying to find just what they wanted out their aircraft, and aeronautics was dwindling so quickly, the planes would get tossed around quite a bit. The Us navy would usualy order maybe s quardon or two for a specifc carrier, bu then the next order for the next carrier would be aonther further development. By the time the thirties started clsoing and it wa clear they were heading to war soon, the Navy was finally locking down what they wanted. As such,m the F4F was just starting prodsuction, and at the time still had alot of teething problems. the Brewster, while clearly not going to be up to snuff, was at least in full production. The US still had alot of bi blanes on their decks that needed to be pulled off. They essentially were just grabbing whatever was variable while they were in port be it buffaloes or wildcats (this goes toward toe bombers and torpedo planes as well). So there was no pecking order, is what just, grab whatever was available while your in town. The one thing though is, They usually didn't wait until they had a squadron. The first few planes would be used for training, once a a couple guys got to know the plane well, they would go with that first plane to whatever carrier it went on, and he would then use that plane to cycle through and train guys on the carrier as more planes became available. Now once the war got started and they were ramping up more and more squadrons, *those* would wait until they had a full compliment before training...but pre war, with experienced pilots, they often just needed a flight at best (2-4), with one or two pilots who knew the plane, and he would get the rest of the crews qualified so they would be ready as more planes came aboard for replacements. You look at air wings from 1939 and ealry 1940, and any squadron could have 2, 3 even 4 types of planes in it. Even if they had them available on deck, the pilots had qualify first before getting permanently placed in one, So while they may have a half dozen Buffalo's before deck, the actual squadron might only have 2 in regular flight, cause th other 6 are still getting qualified between regular sorties and so haven't been formally set in one. Yea, they would do a lot of this on land when available, but up until ealry '42, US Navy squadrons and their crew, and their planes, didn't rotate, they were permantly assigned to their carriers. If their wasn't time, they'd have to qualify while at sea.
Because of the importance of amphibious operations in WW2 I'd nominate the "Uncle Dan, the Amphibious Man", Daniel Barbey "As commander Amphibious Force, Atlantic Fleet in 1940 and 1941 he supervised amphibious training and conducted Fleet Landing Exercises. In May 1942, Barbey was appointed to organize a new Amphibious Warfare Section within the Navy Department, which was charged with responsibility for the coordination of amphibious training and the development and production of the new generation of landing craft. In January 1943 he assumed command of Amphibious Force, Southwest Pacific Force, which became the VII Amphibious Force. He planned and carried out 56 amphibious assaults in the Southwest Pacific Area between September 1943 and July 1945. From the "professionals talk logistics" camp, I would go with the "Father of the Seabees", Ben Moreell. " World War II requirements for advanced bases strung throughout the Pacific called for construction crews to be able to drop their tools and take up weapons at a moment's notice. Moreell believed a militarized Naval Construction Force to build advance bases in the war zone would fulfill this need. On December 28, 1941, he requested authority from the Bureau of Navigation to recruit men from the construction trades for assignment to a Naval Construction Regiment composed of three Naval Construction Battalions; the bureau granted the request on January 5, 1942.[ On March 5, permission was granted for the construction battalions to use the name "Seabees".[ Moreell coined the Seabees motto: Construimus, Batuimus (Latin for "We Build, We Fight"). Moreell's Civil Engineer Corps was given command authority over what would become an organization of 250,000 people that built $10 billion worth of facilities to support the war effort" By the end of the war there were multi-regiment Construction Brigades and there was talk of multi-brigade Construction Divisions for the invasion of Japan
If the Spanish hade deployed a battleship to the Philippine tthe USS Oregon is going Westpac instead of a. dash around Cape Horn to join the Atlantic fleet
Continue the Ruinous Powers question with: Hatshepsut, industrialised god of the Chorfs. Malal/Zuvasin the great undoer. Vashtor (not a good yet), patron of technological progress. The Great Horned Rat, god of unrestrained capitalism.
Re: a late start to war with Japan. I doubt that with the reasorces of the US in the Atlantic convoy system Bismark wouldn't have made its run. Additionally, I am certain that KM Uboats would have had better funding. As for better hunting....Likely not cargo ships.
Sailing ship crews: warships would still have more seamen/topmen than merchantmen because a warship has performance requirements: they want to be able to adjust sail quickly at all times. Merchantmen can plan ahead in a more leisurely fashion, without worrying about having to respond to enemy manoeuvres at very short notice.
The standard US carrier air group at the start of WW2 was supposed to be four squadrons of twenty aircraft each. One squadron of fighters VF (F4F/F2A), one of scouts VS (SBD), one of bombers VB (SBD) and one of torpedo bombers VT (TBD). The TBD was found to be difficult to operate off the Ranger and Wasp so the VT squadron was deleted and an additional VF squadron substituted. In addition, there was a CAG Flight of one of each type of aircraft operated by each squadron, so there was 1 or 2 fighters, 2 scout bombers and 1 or 0 torpedo bombers. Total strength of 84 aircraft. This is what they were AUTHORIZED, not necessarily what they had embarked at any given time. Flagships were supposed to have two planes for the flag officer and his staff, probably a SBD or TBD because of their capacity and an a J2F amphibian "Flying Admiral's Barge" to attend conferences ashore. Both were painted a distinctive glossy dark "Flag Officer Blue". That probably disappeared QUICKLY once the shooting started!
IMHO, Speaking of the Japanese wanting to have a big decisive naval battle. They had & fought 2 very decisive naval battles with the US during WW2. The Battle of Midway & the Battle of Leyte Gulf & the Japanese lost both battles. Problem was they didn't want to admit that they had fought & lost. By the time the US had liberated the Philippines it was OBVIOUS that the Japanese had lost the war. And they should have just surrendered then. Why they continued sending their sons off to be slaughtered so they could try to get more "favorable terms" to surrender was a pipe dream.
The RAF was an an amalgam of the Royal Navy air service( the first official air service) and the army air corps, so my question is why did the navy lose its superiority?
1) Huh? 2) RNAS and Royal Flying Corps (RFC) 3) The RFC was larger, so more ex-RFC officers and men went to the RAF and influence it more (as well as the RNAS being viewed as an auxiliary to the "real" navy)
For Nurgle, I would suggest any troop transport in the Pacific Islands campaign, particularly one returning troops from an extended deployment on one of those islands. I can't remember where I heard it, so this may be anecdotal - but there was supposed to be one island that both sides had tried to occupy, but the local strain of malaria was so vicious that both sides abandoned the attempt.
When he visited he U in Dec 1941, Churchill got agreement that the US Atlantic Fleet would support the British, so in Jan 1942 the US formed TF 99, based in Iceland, but under the operational control of the CINC Home Fleet was formed. At max strength, you have the two North Carolinas, the carriers Ranger and Wasp (each with 40 F4F and 40 SBD), the heavy cruisers Tuscaloosa, Augusta and Wichita, the light cruisers Brooklyn, Savannah and Philadelphia and several squadrons of late model destroyers. The US could rapidly build up a base in Iceland because, unlike the RN, they had been planning to bring their bases with them in a Pacific war and had a large force of auxiliary ships that could transfer to the Atlantic. Once these ships dropped the hook, you had an instant naval base, just like the USN had planned, The old BB's Arkansas, the New York Class, the three New Mexico's, the Flush deck destroyers in the Atlantic (many of which had either undergone or would undergo an ASW FRAM conversion - 6X3/50, 2X3 Torpedo tubes, 5X50 cal/20mm, increased depth charges and additional K guns with eventual Hedgehog) and almost all the Coast Guard cutters would be used for convoy escort and patrol. There were also the PBY's which could augment the RAF's Coastal Command out of Iceland, Greenland, Newfoundland, New England and Bermuda, with the Blimps patrolling the US coast and Caribbean.
52:50 In IJN - Takeo Takagi. Best Japanese carrier admiral based on results - lost a light carrier, sank a fleet carrier. Others: Chuichi Nagumo: lost 3 fleet carriers, sank 1 light and 1 fleet carrier Tamon Yamaguchi: sank 1 fleet carrier (debateable) lost 1 fleet carrier Jisaburo Ozawa: lost 4 fleet and a few light carriers, sank none (although he wasn't as bad as the result would indicate).
@@bkjeong4302 with Ozawa. He tends to get less flak for his losses. Because given what and who he was working with. He was making the most out of an impossible situation.
A leftie hey,that is not that bad. It could be worse, you could be a ginger... By the way, this being a naval channel, where are the videos about knots and how usefull or usseless they are.
Can we please stop with the stupid AF hypotheticals? “What if this thing that didn’t happen did happen?” Yeah what if the ships were made of biscuit? Has about as much chance being history as your Alternate Universe nonsense (meaning, it didn’t)
If the Pacific war hadn't started until late forty three, the Japanese might have had an advantage in naval aircraft. Without the pressure of fighting the Japanese, perhaps the Wildcat would have remained the primary carrier fighter. The Hellcat was purpose built to counter the Zero.
True, but the F4U corsair was already in service, and the extra time would have allowed time to gets it's faults figured out and allowed it to replace the wildcat.
@@bkjeong4302 True enough, but it wasn't used in the European Theater The incentive to push forward with it's development would have been much less. Even the production powerhouse the US was required allocation of resources to the immediate need. It was fast tracked once the Pacific Theater started.
@@w.osterberg9385 I agree this is a possibility, but, like the Hellcat, it wasn't used in the European Theater. Therefore I think the resources would have gone into aircraft useful in Europe and the development of the Corsair would have been a lower priority.
@jamesnelson1968 I thought the British were using it on carriers before the Americans, hence it was used in Europe from carriers before the Pacific. I could be wrong, but I thought it was the British that figured out a good landing cycle for it with its long nose.
The Force Z surviving and for what iff sake the dutch did acquire 3 older britisch battleships ( this was a real request to buy 3 older battleships R or Q class by the dutch prime minister Back in 1939 . The british admiralty refused as they couldnt spare them ) It would have been interesting to see 3 more capital ships on the side of the abda fleet . having 5 capital ships in the area would have been a real problem for the japanese . In particular if the dutch tinkered with their AA and put on some of their innovations on these ships .
@@WALTERBROADDUS Actualy it would as the doctrine layed out in the 1930s was just that . A risk fleet of Battlecruisers ships 6 ( 3 heavy 3 light ) cruisers 28 destroyers and 36 submarines ( and literally hundreds of aircraft Bombers , torpedo bombers fighters and maritime patroll aircraft) Would have taken a huge chunk of the Japanese fleet to be involved . Admiral Heart was and general wavlle beeing the most incompetent commanders in abda command. 1 wasting aircraft and resources on land and the other not listening and squandering resources of the naval assets . If the dutch had their capital ships in 1941 Hart would not have been commanding admiral of that fleet . As he had nor the resources nor the knowledge of the region .Even with force Z surviving Hart would not have been the one in charge . As the incompetence hart showed in the first 3 months of ABDA is shocking .
@@WALTERBROADDUS That is the point , Hart would not have been in place . You would have Admiral Sir Tom Phillips In charge ,with Helfrich as local commander . As Hart by his own admision was to old for this job . It also would put Wavell in its place . As force Z would have been intact , the ships would not have been diverted to australia , and submarines would have been on their designated defensive lines . Hart is the one that ruined ABDA command , And squandering literally all maritme resources . And wavell squandering all aircraft for insignificant bombing runs instead of air cover and eyes in the skies . Having an extra 3 battleships although older . is quite some leverage , To keep all resources available all aircraft available. As the number of ships would have been enormous , With philips and Helfirch pulling the strings they would have the ability and material to implement the defense doctrine that was finalised in the 30s for the east indies.
I'm also waiting for a decent biography video on YT for Admiral Tovey. Seems famous enough for the Bismarck chase but who on TH-cam is actually discussing his life and times??
1) The F4F was a development of the F3F - originally, "a monoplane F3F - so training would somewhat eased 2) In terms of numbers, don't forget that the Marines needed some too. Ex-Navy hand me downs only went so far
Will anyone here be sailing on the Liberty Ship John W. Brown on the 17th in Baltimore ? If so ? I'll be the (only ?) dude wearing a hockey jersey (haven't chosen which one yet....) My brother & I are approachable & don't bite, so feel free to say hello & chat a bit, eh ? 🚬😎👍
They had the right idea Remember this was before the solid state electronic Like it back in the 1950s the pre Aegis the USNs which who was going have Typhon electronic systems And the early AN SPS 32 AN|SPS 33 SCANFAR phased array radar which who was aboard the USSs Enterprise and the Long Beach which who was being so fouled up finally during the later 1970s enough was enough so during their refit and which who was replacing their reactor cores for newer ones and which who was replacing the Long Beach weapons and the total removal of the SCANFARs from the USS Enterprise and the USS Long Beach Thnx for listen ing
Interesting you bring that up. There was an interview with former Chief of Naval operations, Admiral Mullins this week talking about his experience as an operator of the DASH.
Idk, if the Spanish have just one unrefitted Pelayo in the Phillipines an aggressive Dewey may still choose to pick the fight anyways. With Pelayo being all the way out in the Phillipines, I'm guessing that ship might be the last of her sisters to be refitted. And if the Pelayo can only bring three heavy guns and few to none secondaries (keeping in mind the Pelayo is unrefitted), I think Dewey has a chance.
My best memory of my rural grandparent is creating a one inch twisted rope manually with a bunch of sisal. I then used this rope with a tripod to pull a '73 MGB motor for rebuild. Thanks Papa.
My Grandad served in the Royal Navy in WW2, served in all sorts of Ships but he loved being on MTB 476. He was my HERO still miss the grumpy old man.
10:18 There is also the consideration that a merchant's sailing evolutions are going to be considerably more leisurely -- for the most part, you aren't going to need to brace the yards around on all three masts as fast as possible so the other broadside can be brought to bear on an equally-maneuvering target; this allows you to reduce the number of topmen and line haulers, bringing the crew numbers down even further. Now, this carries the limitation of, should you _need_ to adjust all sail quickly on a merchie, what crew you have will be working their asses off, but the goal is to plan ahead enough that you don't have to.
23:31 (HMS Cerberus) Or, build a coffer damn round the ship, carefully drain away the water while taking appropriate steps for preservation, and FLOOD FILL IT WITH RESIN.
Remove the coffer dam, polish up the exterior surfaces, and presto!, world's largest paperweight.
35m50s: As an observation, I believe by WW2, the USN was using the same system for the airwing they used postwar to the current day. The airwing is assigned to a carrier, but is a separate entity. So its not just a matter of swapping out a squadron to update the ship, that airwing is a distinct unit trained to operate together. The carrier is their assignment and outside of learning the unique characteristics of operating from the specific design, they are interchangeable.
I would imagine much like what I saw when the squadrons were transitioning to tomcats, its not a casual thing to swap aircraft out unless perhaps its for sub-types, and even then, the squadron would want all the same type outside of very specific circumstances such as A-6 squadrons also having a couple of KA-6 tankers.
and until an airwing is rotated out, they are somewhat locked into what they have, not just because of because of training, but also because the logistics embarked for the airwing are specific for their needs to maximize the space they have on the ship. I doubt they had any interest in outside of wartime to swap out a squadron without cycling the airwing ashore/home to rebuild it around new types and capabilities.
I had just spent this day reading up on a few different naval aviation units (mostly the different jolly rogers and the red devils) and had wondered about the whole units switching ships thing. Your observations here helped me understand that a little bit better. Much appreciated.
For Nurgle I nominate the late Ottomon navy or the Soviets, for both of whom proper maintanance seem to have been foreign concepts, allowing their ships to rot away under the boots of their crews.
For Slaanesh, you could take Admiral Lee... now before people get out their pitchforks and torches, remember that Slaanesh is the patron of ANY kind of excess. The reason why the Emperor's Children "Legion" fell to Slaanesh, was because of their strife to become the perfect warriors, not for any gluttony related issues... most of them anway.
And to me it seems like Admiral Lee quite excessively obsessed over anything ballistic, be it small-arms or large scale artillary, to very positive effects on the ships he commanded.
While Drach didn't go into detail about why Yamato's 460mm triple turrets are so absurdly heavy, the reason is that they've got absurd armor. The turret faces were a whopping *650mm (26 inches)* thick. I think that is the thickest armor plate ever built, and it's certainly the thickest ever put on a ship. (Bunkers, even those designed to protect against nuclear attack, are not made of a single steel plate. So I'm presuming none of them have a plat as thick as Yamato and Musashi's turret faces.)
I can't find any data for what the Number 13's turret face thickness would've been, but seeing as the proceeding Kii-class would've had 356mm turret faces, the most this is likely to have been upgraded to would be 380 to 410mm. I'm assuming they would've been upgraded in some way, since when you upgrade from 410mm to 460mm guns you'll want more armor as well. But the general design trend in Japan's pre-treaty battleships was for much thinner turret armor than was seen in the 1930s designs that led to Yamato.
My hot take on 40k parallels:
Khorne - yes, basically everything aggressive and deadly. Including also pointless deaths.
Tzeentch - so, basically everything convoluted and off the books. Including also self defeating plans.
Nurgle - so, basically everything annoying and relentless. Including also literal self defeating.
Slaanesh - so, basically slackers and luxurious. It doesn't need to be only about "fun" time.
I love recreating the Spanish fleets in both theatres. And I’ve never assigned 6 Pelayo’s to the fight
Haha was just reading up on a lesser known but no less important group in the US navy that were very instrumental in the battle of the Solomons on the enterprise. Prior to the Solomons the enterprise docked at Noumea and Halsey was told it will take 3 weeks to complete repairs. Halsey said you have 10 days and assigned 75 sebees from B Co. 3 CB along with 40 sailors from the Vestal and they completed the repairs in 11 days which allowed the enterprise to launch aircraft sinking the Hiei. Goes to show give seabees a task and SEABEES CAN DO.
In regards to the last question about the chaos Gods: There was a story, not sure how based it is on fiction versus non-fiction, but it was about German soldiers who became POW's. They had to sail from France to the US on a prisoner ship. Most of those men had never been on a sea voyage, and the tales of how sick they all were, for nearly two weeks certainly would've entertained Nurgle. The descriptions of the sights, sounds and smells would be upsetting to most readers, lest they have a gundanium stomach.
For overlooked, I would nominate Fletcher, the USN Admiral that who fought the key carrier battles before the Essex class showed up.
T-shirt design idea... front..."In THEORY...yes" Back.."In REALITY...NO"
I dated some girls who needed that shirt
Woop woop, time to start the weekend with some drydock!
Yes! Fall weather, porch, bacon and eggs, and Drydock.
What was Spanish gunnery of the time like? That could have a major bearing on the battle as the USN struggled to get even 0.5% hits from heavy and medium calibre guns
Yeah I agree when you look at the battles in the Spanish American war, gunnery was genuinely embarrassing for both sides, the Spanish only having the excuse of a lack of practice rounds (from my memory). So if the Spanish had good gunnery practice is this imagined scenario, I imagine it could go very different
In fairness, virtually no one in the 1890s had good gunnery beyond a few ships whose captains made good gunnery a personal concern. The problem was most everyone, even the Royal Navy, found the costs of firing even inert ammunition out of guns to be a very expensive thing to do, so most minimized live-fire of any kind. You can find more than a few captains and admirals arguing that as long as the gun crews were well-drilled in loading, that was good enough, and loading drills only cost time which the sailors had plenty of to start with! @@Alex-cw3rz
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Nor was the USN able to make up in volume of fire what they lacked in accuracy, since both the 12" and 13" guns took at least 5 minutes to load. Not that a trio of Pelayos would've done any better if they'd been available to the Spanish, since their 32cm guns also took 5 minutes to reload. And that's a best-case scenario; the same gun in Japanese service took an *hour* to reload when they were used in combat in the First Sino-Japanese War (though it's possible this had a lot to do with cramming such a large gun onto a 4,200 ton cruiser, which presumably caused more cramped quarters for the gun crew).
I do wonder what additional restraints might have been affecting the IJN by mid-1943 due to oil shortages. Those were already an issue in 1941. A larger IJN will go through any stockpiled reserves even faster. Plus more time for the UK to reinforce Singapore and the USA to reinforce the Philippines. And if the Allies are declaring war they are in a much better position to react to Japanese moves and have intact bases much closer to Japan. A much different war I suspect.
Two things;
1st you mentioned the US squadron got spread out chasing the Spanish at Santiago
The US fleet consisted of the Armored Cruiser USS Brooklyn, the Battleships USS Iowa and the 3 Indiana class as well as the turret ship USS Texas. They had speeds of; USS Brooklyn-21.9kts, USS Iowa-16kts, Indiana class-15kts, USS Texas-17.8kts
Where the Spanish armored Cruiser had speeds of; Infanta Maria Teresa-20.2kts class Cristobal Colon-20kts meaning only the Brooklyn could keep up with them at a full open run. The fact is that had they left on a moonless night, perhaps with a diversionary torpedo boat attack to cover the Cruisers they probably would have gotten away. They stupidly charged out at high noon and got blasted. Even then one ship did almost get away until she ran out of her supply of hard coal and visibly slowed down when she started burning the softer reserve coal (the Spanish War) this allowed Brooklyn to keep up till she scored a hit on her main steam pipes and she lost power.. Meanwhile all the slower Battleships and Texas were strung out behind trying to keep up. If you sub in 4 Pelayo class Battleships, I highly doubt Spanish gunnery will be any better and the Battleships will have a top speed of 16.2kts allowing the Iowa and Texas to keep up, the Indianas to stay fairly close with only a little over 1 knot difference while Brooklyn with her nearly 6 knot advantage could pull ahead and heard them into the other battleships while crossing their T. No the US squadron wouldn’t be strung out against them they would herd them into a killing field
2nd your reason for the Fast Battleship layout was right to begin with. It was because of the initial single turret plans. Both ways the fore and aft turrets get pretty-much the same arcs of fire, very similar to the 4-turret configurations of the KGVs, Vanguard and rebuilt Tennessee/West Virginia. It’s the central turret that makes the difference. In the current layout that turret has a very limited broadside arc and is pretty-much useless fore and aft, where a reverse configuration would allow that turret to be placed slightly further outboard than the other 2 giving it about a 180 degree arc of fire, or close to it. So the reverse configuration would actually provide a better potential arc of fire overall.
Thank you Drachinfel!
Your mention of the lack of crew amenities on the Royal Navy's WW1 era construction battleships got me thinking:
I'm a former USS Virginia CGN38 sailor, and one of the things that made the ship's last several years where we were cruising in more tropical waters than the designed for North Atlantic/Pacific to fight the glorious Soviet Navy, we were very aware that the steam piping in the engine rooms seemed laid out to counter the expected cooling of frigid waters in those environments. It left us with a rather warmer engineering spaces than we might have preferred.
But we had space that made it possible to consider putting steam piping in areas where parasitic heat losses would add to crew comfort, while leaving generally plenty of room to work around everything in the steam plant. I've seen steam plants on engine rooms aboard US Museum ships of the era. The absolute disparity in free volume for those spaces, and the ones I served with are mind-boggling. Most recently I was aboard USS The Sullivans before her mishap last year, and the whole of the open engine room had all these walkways with tight clearances around everything and little spots where even after making the space fit for the public, there were still tight clearances.
I am now imagining what sort of sweltering Hell the engineering spaces on something like HMS Royal Sovereign would have been like during their time in the Indian Ocean.
eek
I believe that aircraft launch on the destroyer, for the next to last question, is mounted aboard HMS Stronghold.
Give that man a Seegar! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAE_Larynx
11:30 I don't recall if it was Melville or Marryat or Dana, but in one of the period maritime books the author has a couple of characters spend a significant time comparing and contrasting merchant versus naval service. What it came down to was the discipline wasn't too different but naval service was physically easier.
More hands make light work 👍
So the Montana class final designs had their secondaries in the M style configuration. The closest I can figure from my research is that wearly-mid way through the design period they were going to put a heavier secondary battery in, and one of the layouts was to put six twin 6" dual-purpose auto-loading guns on the deck, three per side with the center raised over the other two. This design seemed to have progressed the furthest before being dropped because it was felt that, even with 6" auto-loaders, a six-gun broadside lacked the shell volume to stop a focused air strike. Five twin 5"/38 were lighter and threw more shells per minute and were immediately available, so they replaced the 6" turrets on a one-to-one and built some extentions to the superstructure to mount the others (although they would later be upgraded to 5"/54).
For my sources: most of what I know about American battleships comes from a book I used to own called "U.S. Battleships: An Illustrated Design History" by Norman Friedman.
My impression is they were designed from the start for dual 5.54 mouts
@@ROBERTN-ut2il nope. They started off with the 5"/38, but pretty early on the board wanted something with better anti-ship preformance, so they tried 6" DP guns but were never quite satisfied with them, and ended up designing the 5"/54 as a compromise of the two earlier guns. (The 6" gun was still a promising design though and it saw continued development, becoming the main armament of the post-war Worcester class)
51:12 - "Endymion and Friends" sounds like a delightful Saturday morning kids show
1:00:30 maybe some aspects of the 2nd pacific squadron (voyage of the damned) may also apply to Nurgle, or maybe almost all of the chaos gods, lol.
"do you see torpedo boats?" lol.
Thanks Drach.
Always interesting.
On the last question: What about Malal? Would it be the IJA's ship that followed a completely different chain of command from the IJN? The folks behind the Mk14 torpedo? Something else?
Just one point regarding those 6 “Pelayo”. Yes with hindsight they would have been a much better choice to fight the Americans in 1898, but that’s with hindsight: it could be argued that building more of the cheaper armour cruisers, as they did, was a better option for the Armada in the late 1880s. In 1885 the Carolinas crisis with Germany almost brought both countries to war and forced the Spaniards to face the urgent need for a modern fleet capable of reaching the Pacific if necessary. To that end, ironclads were not suitable, particularly without coaling stations (they did try to acquire coaling facilities from the Italians in Eritrea but it didn’t work). So the best solution at the time seemed to get armour cruisers capable to move strategically to the Caribbean or to the Pacific that could be used as a battle fleet against a smaller enemy or to follow Jeune Ecole tactics in Europe against a more powerful enemy. The design was an improved version of the still building for the RN Orlando class (they would also build a bigger cruiser based on the Blake class). Unfortunately the Orlando were becoming outdated very quickly mainly due to the arrival of QF secondary guns, and so would be the new Spanish cruisers. In any case, again hindsight may mistake our way of looking at things: looking as if we were in the 1880s, the US was a rich country but imbued of a continental mentality, later called isolationism (until then, the US economy had grown increasing its own resources and markets: the conquest of the West, the Rush to California etc) and so the USN had never been but a coastal defence force. Consequently, there was a huge opposition in the country to the new calls to fund a massive blue water fleet as an unnecessary very expensive wasteful novelty. In any case, their best ships, Texas and Maine were just being ordered and many years would pass before their completion (they themselves where built in response to Brazil acquiring 2 similar ironclads in Britain). And beyond them there’s not clear what the Americans would do or how fast their navy would grow. The other two potential enemies were China and Japan, but China, in spite of having the strongest navy in the area, was not thought to be very aggressive, while Japan was building just smaller protected cruisers. So the 6 armour cruisers and 4 protected cruisers the Spanish were planning were thought to be openly superior and capable to face any future threat from the US, China or Japan. And they were probably right. Of course what happened was that the Spaniards built their ships very slowly while the Americans, influenced by Mahan and knowing the Spanish building plan, built a brand new much better fleet of battleships just ready in 1898 with the consequences we all know. To be fair, by then the Spaniards were hopelessly overtaken by the Japanese too, who in 1897 they finally had taken delivery of their 2 superb Fuji class battleships.
27:13 if Force Z survived as by your video on Force Z, they would have been reinforced by 4 revenge class battleships, a Carrier, 17 cruisers and eventually 2 Nelson class battleships. I think at that point the IJN could not just send the 4 Kongos, in fact the entire pre Yamato force of battleships and battlecruisers would fail against that force. And if Force Z survived 88 land based aircraft well known for their anti-ship ability, sending only part of the Kidō Butai against a much larger force. That as Operation Halberd showed a much smaller force was able to brush away 130 land based aircraft with a lot of experience. This would not go well at all for Japan.
Thank you all.
USN Carrier Aircraft December 1941 HMS Audacity, Hannover when captured in the US "Neutrality" Zone, was sunk with four F4 Wildcats.
HMS Audacity was the prize of war SS Hannover and was sunk off Spain on a convoy run. The famous pilot Eric "Winkle" Brown was a survivor. He took advantage of his survivors' leave to get married and go on a honeymoon - though not to a Spanish resort en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Audacity
Raymond Spruance seems to be overlooked by many
I think we have to nominate the 2nd Pacific Squadron as some sort of collective avatar of Chaos Undivided:
Khorne: Leaving aside the tendency to shoot at anything even vaguely unidentified, we have Admiral Rozhestvensky's entries in the binocular hurling contest and contributions to naval epithets.
Tzeentch: The WHOLE IDEA. Plus the attempts to avoid the 3rd Pacific Squadron.
Nurgle: At least in his aspect as God of Despair, given the mood aboard ship. Plus there was that time the refrigerators failed...
Slaanesh: Did someone mention 1,000...exotic...cigarettes? And the floating menagerie?
And then we have the Kamchatka, which may have ascended as the minor Chaos God of 'You WHAT?!'...
Yep this is the winner. The Second Pacific Squadron is the avatar of all four Chaos Gods.
Although I can't top the above brilliant list my thoughts on the matter are:
Khorne: IJN particularly in the late war
Slaanesh: The French Navy, who else have wine cellars aboard warships.
Tzeentch: The Royal Navy for deciphering everybody's communications, even our allies.
Nurgle: The Imperial Russian Navy as the 2nd Pacific Squadron wasn't unique in its lack of hygiene. See Battleship Potemkin.
This is a great idea, but I think Tzeentch wouldn't want anything to do with the 2nd Pac Squad circus.
While the other chaos gods go "help" Rozhestvensky, I could see Tzeentch goin to Admiral Togo and saying "For just the small price of your "friendship" to me, I can tell you EXACTLY where and when the Russians will appear......
Chaos Undivided 😎!
A lot of things are more Infanta Maria Teresa class-including my Volvo is a classic Drachism. Although in fairness to Volvo those estate cars will probably outlast the death of the sun theyll just be retrofitted with rockets but still merily chug along carrying peoples dogs in the back to social events.
Incomparable comparison. Volvos are effectively indestructible.
"If Renown and Repulse replaced Hiei in the night battle of Guadalcanal could they have made it out and could they have done more damage?"
I think they would have done a lot more damage as the IJN would have been shocked to find them in their battle line, blasting away at the other IJN ships. The Americans would still have been blasting away in all directions, and given what San Francisco did to Atlanta, they probably would have suffered some friendly fire from the USN.
😉 ("Sometimes I crack myself up.")
Spain didn't pay reparations to the US. The US paid $20 million to Spain (about $728 million in today's money). The US also paid the Vatican $7,239,000 ($263.4 million today) to buy the Spanish friars' extensive land holdings - the Filipinos hated these friars and the US feared they would be massacred, which would lead to all kinds of problems with the Vatican. This land was distributed to Filipinos.
Strange , a vast quantity of land was appropriated by the USA. The Philippines remain a Roman Catholic country to this day. I suggest you read the The General's General: The Life And Times Of Arthur Macarthur
Should'a left the Friars to fend for themselves. Anything that upsets the Vatican is a good thing.
@@benwilson6145, yeah, what's your point? The Catholics ‘converted’ them by mμrdering anyone who didn't, so of course the one's still alive would have the same ideology. Don't be a Spanish apologist.
@@johannderjager4146deus lo vult noises intensify
Not sure about all the details, but a Catholic Church that holds many thousands of acres of land is a very large political/economic force. Without the land holdings the Church becomes a very less potent force. And the US of the time was at best wary of the Catholic Church, if not actually hostile to it.
I would like to know more about Admiral William S. Pye. Interim commander of the Pacific Fleet between Kimmel and Nimitz.
I am aware of his involvement in the Honda Point Incident, (Destroyers on the Rocks,) his brief command at Pearl, (including the controversy over the failure to relieve Wake Island,) and I believe command of Battle Force One off California, after his relief by Nimitz; but that's it.
I don't think anyone has ever written a book about him.
Have you ever visited LST-325 in Evansville, Indiana in the States?
LST-325 was last seen on the Upper Mississippi at Riverside Park in LaCrosse. Don't know if she was going further up river or was headed South.
Great job as usual. Question: What makes a "clipper ship" a clipper ship? Was this design ever used in warships and if not, why not?
A clipper was a type of mid-19th-century merchant sailing vessel, designed for speed rather than capacity. Clippers were generally narrow for their length, small by later 19th-century standards, could carry only a limited amount of high value freight, and had a large total sail area. In addition they carried would be miners who would pay a premium to get there first to the California and Australian Gold Rushes
It made a terrible warship as it's carrying capacity for ordnance, munitions, stores such as food and water for the men needed to man any guns, etc was too small.
Actor Arthur Lowe! @52:59
Technically, wouldn't the first battleships to have no casemates is HMS Dreadnought? Since she had all of her secondary guns (such as they were, being mere 12-pdrs) in open mounts either on the deck or on top of the main gun turrets. (The Lord Nelson-class pre-dreadnoughts also had no casemates, with the 9.2" secondary guns in turrets and the 12-pdr tertiary battery as open mounts. But they weren't actually completed until after Dreadnought, in part because their original main guns and turrets were swiped for Dreadnought to speed up her construction.)
Personally i would say the Japanese Naval High Command could also be Khorne considering how much time they spend trying to fight the Japanese Army and each other
I’d look more at the sheer amount of insane (and often not for the better) ideas they had, like the “pre-build a bunch of ready-for-conversion carrier hulls as liner and auxiliary hulls” idea.
@@bkjeong4302 That was quite a common ploy by many navies for Auxlliery Crusiers / Commerce Raiders.
The mast from the Maine is in Arlington national cemetery!
Her other mast is at the US Naval Academy, 36.9 miles away. Which leads to the plebe's having to respond "USS Maine" to the question "What is the longest ship in the US Navy?"
Regarding the Cerberus- I think a cheaper solution would be to take that coffer dam idea and instead of draining the water, gradually REPLACE the water with fresh water. Finally leaving the wreck as a permanently freshwater wreck in the middle of a salt water environment. Then extend that pier so people can visit and see the ship as they do on the USS Arizona, but it doesn't require a regular upkeep and staff. It just remains an interesting thing for people to go out and look at if they want.
Cerberus is unsavable. The hull has been pounding on hard packed sand for nearly 100 years, There have been two surveys which have found that the internal bulkheads have collapsed - basically the bottom third of the hull is now rubble. BTW, it's HMVS Cerberus. HMAS Cerberus is a shore establishment located at Flinders where sailors undergo basic training.
@@MatthewDonald Yeah I don't think we're talking about the same thing. Just the same ship.
"Just a fireball waiting to happen" so, you are saying the American Ford Pinto should have been called "Maria Theresa" ?
For Khorne, I'd say it's shared between the Japanese and the Americans for some very aggressive fighting. Honorable mention to the Japanese soldiers who refused to accept the war was over for years, and Taffy 3. Also, they'd fight over who gets it and that would make the Blood God happy.
For Tzeentch, I'd divide it between the Germans and the Japanese, the former for their approach to ship design and high pressure machinery, the latter for their approach to grand strategy.
Nergal I think would be more at home in the land campaigns in the Pacific theater.
The Slaanesh Award, aside from 'sailors on shore leave', would be for the US navy, because Slaanesh approves of barges built specifically for soda and ice cream.
The real question is, who'd get the Chaos Undivided award?
The Second Pacific Squadron gets the Chaos Undivided Award.
If Force Z survived 88 land based aircraft that were well known for their anti-ship ability. I don't think it would be very wise sending part of the Kidō Butai after them espcially with their reinforced force. Which as per your video on Force Z would have been 4 revenge class, 1 carrier, 17 cruisers and 2 Nelson Class battleships, as shown by the Halberd Convoy that's a good way to lose lots of airmen for nothing and that was against 130 Land based aircraft that were very experienced.
So does the Kreigsmarine and Regia Marina not exist in that scenario or what?
@@warwatcher91 yeah this plan was made in 1941. When this would have been done it would leave 2/3 King George V, 4 QE's, HMS Renown. 5 fleet Carriers, about 50+ Cruisers with more coming online, all in the med, Atlantic and Home waters.
How viable would the ship "Atlantico" from World of Warships have been, if it were actually built? Would this have been more akin to a "modern" pre-dreadnought in terms of firepower distribution?
"A lot of things are considerably more survivable than the Infanta Maria Theresa class, including my Volvo"
Now I have an image of Drach happily fitting large caliber guns to his Volvo...
🤔😕 ummm... I've looked under "Battleships" and "Pre-dreadnoughts"... Also ran search for "Drachinifel Pelayo"... No results. Does anyone know if Drach did a 5 minute guide on Pelayo?
Not yet, mainly trying to find more pictures of it
@@Drachinifel ah, ok. Nice to hear from you, Drach! Wasn't expecting The Man himself to respond, given that you're "on tour," so to speak.
Thanks for answering my question!
The big question was if the Japanese might try to PH Force Z (send the Kido Butai after them), though the Kido Butai might be reserved for what the Japanese would see as higher-value targets. And while sending Yamato against Force Z would go against Japanese doctrine, the entire idea of striking PH and fighting offensively rather than defensively went against the Kantai Kessen doctrine anyways, and depending on how well the Kongos do against Force Z the Japanese might feel their hand has been forced.
Re: underrated admirals, I’d go with Mitscher, Lee, Ramsay, and Ozawa as my top picks. Maybe Oldendorff as well.
If Force Z could survive 88 land based aircraft which were well-known for their anti-ship capability. Let alone the reinforcements for Force Z which was to be 4 Revenge class, 1 Carrier, 17 Cruisers, and eventually the 2 Nelson Class battleships. Sending the Kidō Butai in would probably been a good way to lose most of the Kidō Butai. It would probably turn into an Operation Halberd but the Japanese in the place of the Italians, if the Japanese do not send in the entire Kidō Butai. On surface ship front The entire pre Yamato Battleships and Battlecruisers could not take on this force.
@@Alex-cw3rz
Not sure if they would actually lose the entire Kido Butai even in that scenario, though they might not be able to deal with the reinforced Force Z.
Even assuming the Japanese don’t sink anything, the Kido Butai isn’t at risk of being caught by the British surface capital ships and has a massive numerical advantage over the one British carrier (the worst-case scenario for the Japanese would be a night raid by said British carrier, but I doubt that would be able to sink the entire Kido Butai in one go). Pilot losses would be more of an issue, but seeing as the massive Japanese pilot attrition of 1942 came mostly courtesy of American fighters during the Guadalcanal campaign that’s still not going to be as big of a problem as it was at, say, Santa Cruz.
And most importantly-the Regia Marina still exists and is causing problems in the Med in early 1942 and would continue to be an issue up until early 1943, so the question of if the British could actually send that many ships remains.
@@bkjeong4302 you wouldn't lose it all of course but you would have high loses.
Apart from as you said the night fighting and with a much larger Royal navy force they may find the carriers at night and go Cape Matapan on them, as Summerville almost did historically with the Revenge class. The number of aircraft lost and damaged would be rather high for the Kido Butai from anti-aircraft and fighters from the Carrier, the Kido Butai will lose at least a fleet Carriers entire worth of aircraft and aircrew, with a huge number damaged and with the two anti-aircraft gods of Hms Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse that they would have to have been to survive 88 land based aircraft. That could be another Carriers worth of aircraft lost and damaged to those two alone. Then we have the counter attack from the Royal Navy force which as you say would probably come at night and if it finds the Japanese force that will be devastating. If it doesn't then nothing happens.
Those ships were what was earmarked during 1941 with the Italians strength in the Med. For example all the Revenges and a Carrier in the end did come down to the Indian Ocean, not sure how many of the Cruisers did. The Nelsons didn't and this is because without Repulse and Prince of Wales, they couldn't do what they originally wanted which was to be an offensive force in the region.
@@Alex-cw3rz the issue is that even during a night attack against the Kido Butai, the only ships that will actually be able to attack the Kido Butai is the one carrier.
The idea of the RN being able to catch the Kido Butai with battleships is rather questionable to say the least; it was entirely down to dumb luck that the two forces ended up that close together during the Indian Ocean Raid, and even if they did, there is the problem of the battleships being able to start opening up on the carriers before the escorting Japanese destroyers notice what’s happening and tell the carriers to run away.
When a ship (post 1942) was opening fire at aircraft ,where there different ranges when different AA opened fire? And if so how was that arranged?
Different size AAA have different range envelopes. The weapons sights help estimate the range.
I think that ships loaned to a soviet navy during ww2 would also qualify for nurgel
Really catching up now, Marblehead wasn’t that long ago
I see wasp,Yorktown,the brand new North Carolina and others
I think USS Cairo style preservation could work for Cerberus, although probably keeping her in situ inside of the mentioned cofferdam. Because I don't think she'd survive being moved from her site, unless she was cut to pieces and reassembled somewhere else.
I understand that it is the oldest (semi) surviving monitor in the world, bizarrely beached in the middle of a city of five million people. They should be able to find the money for that?
On the question of various typoes of planes on pre wra carriers in the US navy,, it's largely becuase they had so many different types of planes.
douring the inter war years tyhe US as was everyone else who doing carriers, were doing lots and lots of experiments to figure out just what to do with carriers, and also with their airplanes.
USa navy was coming out with a new plane design almost every year. gong into the early thirties, Because they were still trying to find just what they wanted out their aircraft, and aeronautics was dwindling so quickly, the planes would get tossed around quite a bit. The Us navy would usualy order maybe s quardon or two for a specifc carrier, bu then the next order for the next carrier would be aonther further development.
By the time the thirties started clsoing and it wa clear they were heading to war soon, the Navy was finally locking down what they wanted. As such,m the F4F was just starting prodsuction, and at the time still had alot of teething problems. the Brewster, while clearly not going to be up to snuff, was at least in full production. The US still had alot of bi blanes on their decks that needed to be pulled off. They essentially were just grabbing whatever was variable while they were in port be it buffaloes or wildcats (this goes toward toe bombers and torpedo planes as well).
So there was no pecking order, is what just, grab whatever was available while your in town.
The one thing though is, They usually didn't wait until they had a squadron. The first few planes would be used for training, once a a couple guys got to know the plane well, they would go with that first plane to whatever carrier it went on, and he would then use that plane to cycle through and train guys on the carrier as more planes became available. Now once the war got started and they were ramping up more and more squadrons, *those* would wait until they had a full compliment before training...but pre war, with experienced pilots, they often just needed a flight at best (2-4), with one or two pilots who knew the plane, and he would get the rest of the crews qualified so they would be ready as more planes came aboard for replacements.
You look at air wings from 1939 and ealry 1940, and any squadron could have 2, 3 even 4 types of planes in it. Even if they had them available on deck, the pilots had qualify first before getting permanently placed in one, So while they may have a half dozen Buffalo's before deck, the actual squadron might only have 2 in regular flight, cause th other 6 are still getting qualified between regular sorties and so haven't been formally set in one.
Yea, they would do a lot of this on land when available, but up until ealry '42, US Navy squadrons and their crew, and their planes, didn't rotate, they were permantly assigned to their carriers. If their wasn't time, they'd have to qualify while at sea.
Because of the importance of amphibious operations in WW2 I'd nominate the "Uncle Dan, the Amphibious Man", Daniel Barbey
"As commander Amphibious Force, Atlantic Fleet in 1940 and 1941 he supervised amphibious training and conducted Fleet Landing Exercises. In May 1942, Barbey was appointed to organize a new Amphibious Warfare Section within the Navy Department, which was charged with responsibility for the coordination of amphibious training and the development and production of the new generation of landing craft. In January 1943 he assumed command of Amphibious Force, Southwest Pacific Force, which became the VII Amphibious Force. He planned and carried out 56 amphibious assaults in the Southwest Pacific Area between September 1943 and July 1945.
From the "professionals talk logistics" camp, I would go with the "Father of the Seabees", Ben Moreell.
" World War II requirements for advanced bases strung throughout the Pacific called for construction crews to be able to drop their tools and take up weapons at a moment's notice. Moreell believed a militarized Naval Construction Force to build advance bases in the war zone would fulfill this need. On December 28, 1941, he requested authority from the Bureau of Navigation to recruit men from the construction trades for assignment to a Naval Construction Regiment composed of three Naval Construction Battalions; the bureau granted the request on January 5, 1942.[ On March 5, permission was granted for the construction battalions to use the name "Seabees".[ Moreell coined the Seabees motto: Construimus, Batuimus (Latin for "We Build, We Fight").
Moreell's Civil Engineer Corps was given command authority over what would become an organization of 250,000 people that built $10 billion worth of facilities to support the war effort"
By the end of the war there were multi-regiment Construction Brigades and there was talk of multi-brigade Construction Divisions for the invasion of Japan
If the Spanish hade deployed a battleship to the Philippine tthe USS Oregon is going Westpac instead of a. dash around Cape Horn to join the Atlantic fleet
Continue the Ruinous Powers question with:
Hatshepsut, industrialised god of the Chorfs.
Malal/Zuvasin the great undoer.
Vashtor (not a good yet), patron of technological progress.
The Great Horned Rat, god of unrestrained capitalism.
Re: a late start to war with Japan.
I doubt that with the reasorces of the US in the Atlantic convoy system Bismark wouldn't have made its run. Additionally, I am certain that KM Uboats would have had better funding. As for better hunting....Likely not cargo ships.
Sailing ship crews: warships would still have more seamen/topmen than merchantmen because a warship has performance requirements: they want to be able to adjust sail quickly at all times. Merchantmen can plan ahead in a more leisurely fashion, without worrying about having to respond to enemy manoeuvres at very short notice.
Strange that all the record breaking voyages under sail were by Merchant ships!
@@benwilson6145 no it isn't. Did you read what I said? Oh... you interpreted "leisurely" wrong, didn't you? 🙄
Also late 18 hundreds merchantmen were schooners for the very reason that that rig type needs fewer crew than the square rig.
@@andreaswiklund7197 absolutely. While Drach didn't make that point, I think it was implied by his choice of image.
@@lukedogwalkerthat was what he meant when he referred to the types, sizes, and locations of sails
The standard US carrier air group at the start of WW2 was supposed to be four squadrons of twenty aircraft each. One squadron of fighters VF (F4F/F2A), one of scouts VS (SBD), one of bombers VB (SBD) and one of torpedo bombers VT (TBD). The TBD was found to be difficult to operate off the Ranger and Wasp so the VT squadron was deleted and an additional VF squadron substituted. In addition, there was a CAG Flight of one of each type of aircraft operated by each squadron, so there was 1 or 2 fighters, 2 scout bombers and 1 or 0 torpedo bombers. Total strength of 84 aircraft. This is what they were AUTHORIZED, not necessarily what they had embarked at any given time. Flagships were supposed to have two planes for the flag officer and his staff, probably a SBD or TBD because of their capacity and an a J2F amphibian "Flying Admiral's Barge" to attend conferences ashore. Both were painted a distinctive glossy dark "Flag Officer Blue". That probably disappeared QUICKLY once the shooting started!
Why was there not a larger naval contingent to the Hague treaties?
Right on bedtime for a bit of service related insomnia relief. God bless operating on kilo time.
IMHO, Speaking of the Japanese wanting to have a big decisive naval battle. They had & fought 2 very decisive naval battles with the US during WW2. The Battle of Midway & the Battle of Leyte Gulf & the Japanese lost both battles. Problem was they didn't want to admit that they had fought & lost. By the time the US had liberated the Philippines it was OBVIOUS that the Japanese had lost the war. And they should have just surrendered then. Why they continued sending their sons off to be slaughtered so they could try to get more "favorable terms" to surrender was a pipe dream.
The RAF was an an amalgam of the Royal Navy air service( the first official air service) and the army air corps, so my question is why did the navy lose its superiority?
1) Huh? 2) RNAS and Royal Flying Corps (RFC) 3) The RFC was larger, so more ex-RFC officers and men went to the RAF and influence it more (as well as the RNAS being viewed as an auxiliary to the "real" navy)
For alte design _and_ buit ship with casemates, see the _Graff Zepellin_ ...
For Nurgle, I would suggest any troop transport in the Pacific Islands campaign, particularly one returning troops from an extended deployment on one of those islands. I can't remember where I heard it, so this may be anecdotal - but there was supposed to be one island that both sides had tried to occupy, but the local strain of malaria was so vicious that both sides abandoned the attempt.
Left handers unite!!!
Right handers untie!!!
@@ROBERTN-ut2il When in high school, I had a date with a dyslexic girl. I brought her home and she ended up cooking my sock.
When he visited he U in Dec 1941, Churchill got agreement that the US Atlantic Fleet would support the British, so in Jan 1942 the US formed TF 99, based in Iceland, but under the operational control of the CINC Home Fleet was formed. At max strength, you have the two North Carolinas, the carriers Ranger and Wasp (each with 40 F4F and 40 SBD), the heavy cruisers Tuscaloosa, Augusta and Wichita, the light cruisers Brooklyn, Savannah and Philadelphia and several squadrons of late model destroyers. The US could rapidly build up a base in Iceland because, unlike the RN, they had been planning to bring their bases with them in a Pacific war and had a large force of auxiliary ships that could transfer to the Atlantic. Once these ships dropped the hook, you had an instant naval base, just like the USN had planned, The old BB's Arkansas, the New York Class, the three New Mexico's, the Flush deck destroyers in the Atlantic (many of which had either undergone or would undergo an ASW FRAM conversion - 6X3/50, 2X3 Torpedo tubes, 5X50 cal/20mm, increased depth charges and additional K guns with eventual Hedgehog) and almost all the Coast Guard cutters would be used for convoy escort and patrol. There were also the PBY's which could augment the RAF's Coastal Command out of Iceland, Greenland, Newfoundland, New England and Bermuda, with the Blimps patrolling the US coast and Caribbean.
Drac Is it just me or CV-8 USS Hornet is supposed to be CV-7 USS Wasp sister ship?
No, she's a modified Yorktown much bigger than Wasp (25900 tons full load vs 19400 ton)
I can’t help but think about drach and his Volvo, flying the flag rolling down the road if he chooses the lane probably has some cannons in there…
52:50 In IJN - Takeo Takagi. Best Japanese carrier admiral based on results - lost a light carrier, sank a fleet carrier.
Others:
Chuichi Nagumo: lost 3 fleet carriers, sank 1 light and 1 fleet carrier
Tamon Yamaguchi: sank 1 fleet carrier (debateable) lost 1 fleet carrier
Jisaburo Ozawa: lost 4 fleet and a few light carriers, sank none (although he wasn't as bad as the result would indicate).
Honestly, had Ozawa been given command of the Kido Butai instead of Nagumo. He probably could’ve pushed them a lot longer.
@@ph89787
Agreed. One of the best IJN admirals.
@@bkjeong4302 with Ozawa. He tends to get less flak for his losses. Because given what and who he was working with. He was making the most out of an impossible situation.
A leftie hey,that is not that bad. It could be worse, you could be a ginger... By the way, this being a naval channel, where are the videos about knots and how usefull or usseless they are.
Can we please stop with the stupid AF hypotheticals? “What if this thing that didn’t happen did happen?” Yeah what if the ships were made of biscuit? Has about as much chance being history as your Alternate Universe nonsense (meaning, it didn’t)
If the Pacific war hadn't started until late forty three, the Japanese might have had an advantage in naval aircraft. Without the pressure of fighting the Japanese, perhaps the Wildcat would have remained the primary carrier fighter. The Hellcat was purpose built to counter the Zero.
True, but the F4U corsair was already in service, and the extra time would have allowed time to gets it's faults figured out and allowed it to replace the wildcat.
The Hellcat began development before PH, war experience only added to it.
@@bkjeong4302 True enough, but it wasn't used in the European Theater The incentive to push forward with it's development would have been much less. Even the production powerhouse the US was required allocation of resources to the immediate need. It was fast tracked once the Pacific Theater started.
@@w.osterberg9385 I agree this is a possibility, but, like the Hellcat, it wasn't used in the European Theater. Therefore I think the resources would have gone into aircraft useful in Europe and the development of the Corsair would have been a lower priority.
@jamesnelson1968 I thought the British were using it on carriers before the Americans, hence it was used in Europe from carriers before the Pacific. I could be wrong, but I thought it was the British that figured out a good landing cycle for it with its long nose.
The Force Z surviving and for what iff sake the dutch did acquire 3 older britisch battleships ( this was a real request to buy 3 older battleships R or Q class by the dutch prime minister Back in 1939 . The british admiralty refused as they couldnt spare them )
It would have been interesting to see 3 more capital ships on the side of the abda fleet . having 5 capital ships in the area would have been a real problem for the japanese . In particular if the dutch tinkered with their AA and put on some of their innovations on these ships .
I don't think additional equipment is going to change the problems of the ABDA Fleet?
@@WALTERBROADDUS Actualy it would as the doctrine layed out in the 1930s was just that . A risk fleet of Battlecruisers ships 6 ( 3 heavy 3 light ) cruisers 28 destroyers and 36 submarines ( and literally hundreds of aircraft Bombers , torpedo bombers fighters and maritime patroll aircraft) Would have taken a huge chunk of the Japanese fleet to be involved .
Admiral Heart was and general wavlle beeing the most incompetent commanders in abda command. 1 wasting aircraft and resources on land and the other not listening and squandering resources of the naval assets .
If the dutch had their capital ships in 1941 Hart would not have been commanding admiral of that fleet . As he had nor the resources nor the knowledge of the region .Even with force Z surviving Hart would not have been the one in charge .
As the incompetence hart showed in the first 3 months of ABDA is shocking .
@@marcusfranconium3392I don't think getting more pawns to the chessboard with the leaders noted would have changed much.
@@WALTERBROADDUS That is the point , Hart would not have been in place . You would have Admiral Sir Tom Phillips In charge ,with Helfrich as local commander . As Hart by his own admision was to old for this job . It also would put Wavell in its place . As force Z would have been intact , the ships would not have been diverted to australia , and submarines would have been on their designated defensive lines .
Hart is the one that ruined ABDA command , And squandering literally all maritme resources . And wavell squandering all aircraft for insignificant bombing runs instead of air cover and eyes in the skies .
Having an extra 3 battleships although older . is quite some leverage , To keep all resources available all aircraft available.
As the number of ships would have been enormous , With philips and Helfirch pulling the strings they would have the ability and material to implement the defense doctrine that was finalised in the 30s for the east indies.
I'm also waiting for a decent biography video on YT for Admiral Tovey. Seems famous enough for the Bismarck chase but who on TH-cam is actually discussing his life and times??
1) The F4F was a development of the F3F - originally, "a monoplane F3F - so training would somewhat eased 2) In terms of numbers, don't forget that the Marines needed some too. Ex-Navy hand me downs only went so far
Watching this 20 minutes after shaking your hand is pretty unreal.
Will anyone here be sailing on the Liberty Ship John W. Brown on the 17th in Baltimore ? If so ? I'll be the (only ?) dude wearing a hockey jersey (haven't chosen which one yet....) My brother & I are approachable & don't bite, so feel free to say hello & chat a bit, eh ?
🚬😎👍
The Dash drone used by USA during the 60s was a really interesting bit of failed weapons technology.
They had the right idea Remember this was before the solid state electronic Like it back in the 1950s the pre Aegis the USNs which who was going have Typhon electronic systems And the early AN SPS 32 AN|SPS 33 SCANFAR phased array radar which who was aboard the USSs Enterprise and the Long Beach which who was being so fouled up finally during the later 1970s enough was enough so during their refit and which who was replacing their reactor cores for newer ones and which who was replacing the Long Beach weapons and the total removal of the SCANFARs from the USS Enterprise and the USS Long Beach Thnx for listen ing
Interesting you bring that up. There was an interview with former Chief of Naval operations, Admiral Mullins this week talking about his experience as an operator of the DASH.
The Japanese made it work and only got rid of it eight years after the USN
Idk, if the Spanish have just one unrefitted Pelayo in the Phillipines an aggressive Dewey may still choose to pick the fight anyways. With Pelayo being all the way out in the Phillipines, I'm guessing that ship might be the last of her sisters to be refitted. And if the Pelayo can only bring three heavy guns and few to none secondaries (keeping in mind the Pelayo is unrefitted), I think Dewey has a chance.
Between you and AC. Dang Brits like Volvos.
Algorithm support comment
47th, 10 September 2023
Cunningham.
Drac Is it just me or CV-8 USS Hornet is supposed to be CV-7 USS Wasp sister ship?
Hornet is part of the Yorktown class. The Wasp is a one-off. Basically built to meet treaty restrictions. It's a design full of compromises.
It;s just you, look up the ships in Wikipedia