Trying My First FTP Test | Cycling Coach Reacts
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.พ. 2023
- Giving my thoughts on @BenjiNaesenTV recent FTP testing video where he compared a ramp test to a 20m max test.
See Benji's original video here: • My First FTP Test EVER...
📈 Learn more about my cycling coaching services ➡️ www.nero.club/coaching
Instagram: / jessecoyle
Strava: / strava - กีฬา
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If you have suggestions of other videos I should react to, leave there as a reply on this thread 👍
I'd really like to see you react to the video from the tristantakevideo channel where he turned pro for 7 days, specially the part where he gets his blood sample results.
thanks for the great content
th-cam.com/video/qK9Y8EACcD4/w-d-xo.html
Charles Ouimet's videos on EF training camp. It's just me, but i think those were one of most informative videos i've watched.
Yes the Charles Ouimet 6 part series with ef education, love to hear your thoughts on the video about how people climb and pedal.
Also i would like you to react to the safa/pidcock decent! Skills analysis 👌
It would be nice to see Andrew Feather's stats analized from you
Loved your video, Jesse! Learned a lot from watching it. :)
I realised quickly that my Ramp Test was a bit "incorrectly" done due to the spiral of death cadence, so I've since done a "correct" one that hasn't hit the internet yet. I'm aware that these FTP tests are rough estimates, I probably could've made that a bit more clear. But like you say, I see the value for myself to have a rough guess of where I'm at to then see in a year if it has changed. Plan is indeed focusing on Z2 lower-intensity rides, with some challenges left and right to spicen up the videos.
Fun fact: the reason I don't unzip is because I'm not comfortable yet with my weight being topless on a recording camera. 😂
Again, thanks! Love your content. ♥
🤝Huge respect for putting your fitness journey out there for all of us.
I know it can be intimidating to be that transparent, but it’s very motivational.
Love this guy, Benji is inspirational
Great to see you covering this video, I’ve watched Benj’s channel for years and it’s fascinating now watching him begin his own cycling journey - good on him and good luck to him 👍
I'm loving the reaction vids. You have a great perspective on other folks' content. Keep it up.
Mate these breakdowns are so good! Loving them! The insights from a coach and just generally another perspective on videos I’ve watched is 👌
Thanks James
AGAIN, I have learned a whole lot more on this video than on any other subscription. Thanks Jesse, keep it up. You're my favorite channel now. Charles from South Africa.
Jesse is really that coach you get so much great knowledge and tips from in just 1 video! Keep it up man! 💪
So insightful, man! Wish this video had been around when I took my first FTP test!
I wish I could have been arsed to document my journey from a couch potato to a crit racer years ago but I guess you do need to be a bit of an exhibitionist to enjoy that kind of thing!
Really nice vid Jesse, good analysis and I especially agree on the indoor cooling aspect and 20 minute test superiority in general. I've had a few rubbish years lately and got down into the rabbit hole of overanalyzing my poor performance, switching training mid season etc. Stupidly I also followed the ramp test fad, which led to missing the mark on my training zones and sub par training for about 3 years. I've now done a full 180 on the testing - back to the longer format and I really feel like it makes a huge difference! Also pretty easy to do outdoors - I'm lucky to live 10 minutes from a very long, wide Dutch beach - no traffic, no turns, lots of wind most of the time. I'm now doing most of my interval work and all the testing on my gravel setup and it's mentally so much easier than doing the same on the trainer.
21:30 My first ever power test on bike was 20min FTP test, estimated my proper power to be around 270. Was able to hold it for about 5 minutes. Average was 238watts, i will probably never forget that number. It was sheer suffering.
Even my wife came to check what was wrong with me, i must have sounded terrible.
Very constructive observations, learning alot from your insights, keep up the great work 👍
Agreed with a lot of what you said. Pure beginners are pretty much going to improve by just riding more. Some people are motivated by having numbers based goals, but I usually advise beginners to just go out and enjoy riding their bikes and learning without worrying too much about numbers to start with.
A bit late to the party here. Been following you and Chris on the Nero Cycling chats. This was such an interesting video! Cheers. 🎉
this video format...is gold.
I never realized the ramp test was just 20% VO2, that’s so good to know and perfectly explains why it overestimates my FTP
Would love to see you react and talk about Keith Roy from New York on Strava. He is currently completing 60 hours a week indoors on zwift. Curious what you think of his strava data and just what it would take to do that many hours on the bike etc.
Definitely big differences in FTP indoors vs outdoors. As a smaller rider (64kg) I find the draggy feel of the trainer really saps my legs compared to IRL. Unfortunately for me I do all my racing on Zwift so I end up doing 2 FTP tests so I'm training in the right zones indoors and out
Jesse, I recently found your podcast and YT Channel. I’m really enjoying it thanks. Question: do you always use the 95% number of the 20 minute test or do you ever use less like 93% thanks -Ryan
If it's a raw 20m test with no pre-fatiguing effort I always use 93%. But I keep FTP updated for riders based on all their training data, not blindly of tests anyway
Hey Jesse, do you use sugar water only for race events or also for your daily training ? Isnt it unhealthy to consume that much sugar ?
What pacing strategy would you recommend for the 20-minute FTP test?
What aborto Garmin's ramp test? Can't be done outdoor? I've done it once and it pretty much matched other tests I've done before.
Can't wait for Lanterne Rouge to enter the testing mode!🤔🤨 I've seen thecyclingdane out there, David Arthur, Waynos Fotos, Durianrider, etc etc etc
In my training room in WI USA. Overheating prevented by simply leaving heat off overnight. 😊
Hey Jesse, comment on hiding HR makes sense…I take it that when doing longer interval efforts (6min+) in general you would not have it on the head unit?
Really enjoy these videos…well done, love it
If your more anaerobic, ramp test tends to overestimate ftp. I couldn't complete some workouts, particularly the longer ones at ramp test ftp. 2 x 20, 3 x 15 etc. 20 minutes test was a bit lower result, but easier for workouts now.
problem with ftp testing for beginners if that beginners don't know how to suffer yet. Its not that your ftp goes after up some time, but you just know that you can sustain burning legs and lungs for longer
I think one thing to keep in mind is that I believe more people have a smart trainer that gives them power info(watts) versus having bought a powermeter and a cycling computer. So it's going to be more common to see people doing ramp tests indoors on a trainer.
Seeing your reactions to Benjis bad decisions (which are the same decisions that I made) is just priceless.
I have an outdoor velodrome I could use to do a outdoor FTP test
Agree with James, great insight. @jesse what is you view on critical power testing over the traditional FTP testing??
I honestly don't have a view on it, it's not something I've implemented into my coaching workflow, or my own personal training tracking/analysis. There's certainly value in testing peak powers of various durations other than 20m, I've just not yet gone a step further and spent time running that through CP calculation and then making use of that data.
May do in the future, but right now don't think it's going to give me enough further insights put the time into it implementing it.
Similar to hiding the HR when testing. Do you typically recommend removing that value from head units in TT efforts or races?
Depends on the rider, personally I almost never look at HR when while training or racing. I use it a lot for analysis though, after the ride. I usually recommend just removing it from headunit screen, train and race without it for a couple of weeks, then you can decide if you think there is a benefit to seeing it. For me I don’t see a benefit
Hey Jesse, not really related to this video, but curious if you plan on joining a different domestic team now that Nero is wrapped?
Ramp test definitely over estimated my FTP. Could tell straight away when I tried to do a Zone 2 ride based on it.
hey Jesse ftp test, w/kg more important as he's losing weight, ftp test was only ever designed to set zones right? ... not necessarily as a fitness number or goal? also ramp test is good 'if' you do a proper warm up with v02 max efforts - so it truly captures 'aerobic' threshold. zwift also has a lite ramp test. in the zwift world ftp & w/kg are king as that's the measurable band that can be captured for the game. guess if you only cycle indoors that's all that matters, there's so much more as we know particularly cda, nutrition etc.
There is a “Ramp test lite” on Zwift for lighter and lower power riders fyi.
Perfect!
This series is interesting. But most videos I see about improving only focus on training on the bike. What can I do off the bike to improve? How much of an effect, for instance, does building core strength have?
Strength training can certainly assist riders that don't have much of a sporting background, or who have a specific weakness. But it will only assist you up to a point. I find probably 2/3 riders I see won't directly improve their cycling by adding strength/core training, 1/3 would likely benefit from adding it. Although they may choose to include it in training for other reasons. Also most riders have limited time to train and may be lucky to get 8 hours a week on the bike, in those cases it's hard to fit in more off bike work
I’m about to do a ramp test followed by a 20 min test in three weeks. I would be surprised if I couldn’t get more 280w in the ramp. And I would be surprised if I could get 265w avg in 20 min.
I have so many questions for Jesse. Just started training with power 18 months ago. Cat 2 on the road. Been basically ramp testing as my baseline for ftp/trainerroad workouts. I'm in season now and ftp on ramp is 355 BUT I always knock it down 10 watts. I've found that method makes the corresponding workouts challenging but doable... and crucially, the next ramp I do in say 8 weeks will show improvement. Can only do 7 hours a week (family and job). Sounds like I need to do 20 minute test, petrified of it.
If you're racing CAT2 and never been flat out for 20 mins I'm guessing you don't win many races 😂
Great video Jesse. Thoughts on the best place to do a 20 min test in/around Sydney?
CP laps, or is there somewhere better?😊
CP, or Akuna west side from Dalbora Marina to Tempo @ Terrey hills
@@nerocoaching Legend, thanks mate.
Zwift has a ramp test version with smaller steps.
Agree with all of this ! Thanks for your video. These reviews are great. On my ramp test I have a 300w ftp, on the 20min test I have 280w and on the one hour test I have 265-270watts so yeah ramp test with a BIG grain of salt !
If your more of a sprinter type ramp test from my understanding will over estimate your frp because your good at that 4 to 5 min power.
17:35 TrainerRoad ramp test is 19:30 to just break even. 19:31 starts the FTP improvements. 20min is a 2% increase. It’s a 20 min flat test vs. 20 min ramp test.
True, but the first 5 minutes of it are at a 46% warm-up so the test itself is actually only 14:30 to break even, and only 6:30 of it is at threshold or over. In a 20 min test you're doing 20 min at 105%, which is why Jesse considers it to be more uncomfortable.
Am I crazy for doing actual 1 hour FTP tests? :)
I've been riding seriously (with power meter and following training plans etc) for 8 years now. Done a zillion FTP tests so I can pace myself for an hour pretty accurately.
The reason I prefer it is cause my "main event" as a non-racer is testing myself against my personal best which is a ~1 hour steady climb here in California. My personal best is 1 hour 2 minutes so I figure if I test my FTP for an hour, although there will be inside / outside difference (and probably a little bit altitude and psychological cause headwinds / crosswinds some days) it'll get me somewhere close to my target ride.
Nope you aint crazy. 1h tests are awesome, I personally prefer them to a 20m test. I did one a few weeks ago. Great training session too
what I‘d like to know when you are commenting on these videos….do you watch them the first time while commenting? or have you seen the whole thing before? @nerocoaching
Do a 20min test and shoot for 208.4w and see how close you get. 198/.95=208. You’d have to do it without (or with minimal) fans/cooling again.
Do you find indoor testing over or underestimate outdoor power?
For a 20m test, under-estimate for most riders, assuming using the same power meter indoors and out
I should clarify, most people find outdoor power in general higher than indoor power, therefore if you repeat the same test indoor and outdor, the indoor test will tend to underestimate
I dont think the trainer ftp tests are any indication of improvement on a bike at all. I did a test 6 or so months ago and got 212 at 74kg woth little bike experience. Since then ive been riding 4 times a week consistently and gone from struggling at c grade in crit to podiums in b grade. Did another ftp test last week... 221 at 71kg. Totally agree that learning to ride efficiently is far more important in the early days than focusing on power figures..
Look at watts/kg not only on watts
Watching his 20 minutes FTP I thought you were getting another pair of secondhand bibs Jesse 😉
excellent commentary- BASICS first
Doing what is basically a maximal aerobic power test at
Why not just not use erg mode. I find it better for keeping my cadence.
That would be good, but would be very difficult to accurately hold the power accurately in each ramp without erg mode. Near on impossible to do
190 watts is not bad for a beginner. Slowly working on weight loss and upping your ftp will turn you into a beast😄
My ftp is at least 10% indoors even w a good carpet drying fan…that sheets real!
So do you test your athletes? My coach doesn’t test at all unless the athlete asks for it. IMO if you do enough hard workouts and you’re honest with yourself, you know.
40 to 70 minutes, or about an hour
I open several notepad windows and block all the data when testing. -U10
As a gamer he probably doesn't know how to dope so his more realistic ftp increase is interesting to see compared to old mate who said he will double his in 12 months
19:07 not even subscribed to benji... savage
The Zwift app was not kind to Benji when creating his avatar.
I've done FTP tests in a lab with 30 watt increases with 6 minutes steps. Test takes 45 to 60 minutes, including lactate testing. Brutal 🤮
That cadence sure wasnt right
I would not be surprised if he isn't more like 265 at the end of a year if he loses weight and improves his ability to shed heat.
He didn’t even look like he was breathing hard - the way he was able to speak while he at that last step didn’t look right. He asked himself if he did that test right- he should give it another go and try and go further - this time in a better environment. All the cameras and being outside him home pain cave - is too distracting if I were this guy IMO.
Let's be honest, I just did the Ramp Test incorrectly. I've done a new one since and I couldn't talk in the last few minutes with a proper cadence now. 😂
Interesting though if you had gotten up on the cadence and managed to get through another ramp or two, it would have given you an ever higher FTP estimation 🫤
@@nerocoaching my first zwift ramp test put my ftp at like 230 and I about died when I tried a workout based on that and had to drop it down to 200.
I did one last week at 90-100 rpm ended up with 251w on ramp test. Though I can barely manage 3x15 at 220w. Seem to be improving 10watts a month though. My off the couch FTP from a ramp test a year ago came out at 135!
Yeah, but when you're absolutely new you're only as your weakest point. Eg your legs can give out way before your cardio.
Ftp tests aren't easy! I did my first 20min ftp test in 2017 in winter while unfit after getting a pm after ~20yrs of riding/racing and training. Looking back 1st 3rd was 308w's. Last 3rd was 281w's so went out way too hard. I still hate them lol. I like to do local Cat2 hillclimb efforts a bit over 20mins to gauge fitness and pretend they're not ftp tests, but just me going for PR strava records. Seems easier that way psychologically.
Your plant’s seen better days, I guess
I'd be VERY surprised if a 20 minute max workout for a beginner gets to 95% of a whole hours effort. Sure, for a cyclist that has been training and has undertaken numerous 1hr sessions ok. Just think a beginner would lack the stamina. Its like a 1/3rd of a marathon runner saying it would be good at 95% of a full marathon.
Ghetto ftp test 🤣🤣 dodging junkies and gangsters! Your on fire jesse keep pumping them out!
ghetto this or ghetto that simply means . . . MAKESHIFT
There is zero chance that he can hold 198W for an hour, in my opinion. This Zwift ramp test is notorious for overestimating the FTP.
I didn't even realize that he did 20 minute test afterwards. Yeah... forget the ramp test.
Predictions anyone who hasn't watched the ending, my guess is 220w
I on bet 240 ftp in a year for him
FTP test on the road is almost never better. Don't know where you are coming from on this. There is nowhere anywhere near me that I can do a predicable out and back. Zwift is fantastic for FTP tests.
Just did mine on Zwift (however accurate it is) sitting at 302FTP @92kg, only up from here.
Never done a ramp test alway a 20 minutes test. Nobody rides in a ramp style outdoors
Computer guy here, just confirming that ftp setups can sometimes be difficult to get working properly.
"jumping on the bandwagon"
;-)
you forgot "Benji Naesen Patrick Lanterne Rogue Cycling Podcast" and other clickbaits in your title
I love these Coach Reacts videos - I've watched like 2 hrs worth at this point.
Well, ypu will get a much higher FTP indoors…