Jeff, Good video - thank you! I should have mentioned that the 351 heads/blocks use a 1/2" head bolt whereas 260/289/303 heads/blocks use 7/16" bolts. So to put 351W heads on a 260/289/302 you need either special head bolts or head bolt washers. Not a huge deal but just putting it out there. Paul (in MA)
On my Ford Racing crate engine that I bought new in 1994 and was advertised as a "Cobra" 5.0 engine, it had the GT40 iron heads on it. The head bolt holes were for the 351, at 1/2". Ford assembled the darned thing without the washers and just went ahead with installing the factory, 7/16" bolts. I ran the engine for a while before I changed to ARP head bolts and the spacer washers. I got rid of the OE "torque to Yield" bolts and have stayed with the ARP hardware that can be reused over and over. I don't know why the Ford engine assembly folks didn't use the spacer washers, but it doesn't make me particularly happy about their quality control. I also wonder what Ford did on the 1993-94 "Cobra Mustangs" and if washers were used there? While I didn't encounter any problems during the short time that the engine was run without those washers, it's kind of basic engineering knowledge that the spacer washers should be used to keep the head bolts properly aligned. I strongly recommend using the ARP head bolt kit for the quality, strength and the fact that the kit contains the washers. The head bolt kit is affordable, too.
I love the 351 Windsor which for my 1971 Galaxie500 I rebuilt it as a Street Boss, I just hate hearing Clevor! B&A Ford performance had the best intake for this project... and using the Cleveland D1AE 2V heads that I still got... in the shop :) That 351 Street Boss is a Stump Puller of a motor and had no problem getting a 4400 lbs Galaxie moving!
Great vid! Thank you!! Not to bird dog your research but.... Hi Perf 289 heads in addition to built-in guide plates had built-in valve spring locators. They were quite the complete package in many ways...just so-so breathing capability.
I scored '69 351W heads from PAW (Performance Automotive Warehouse) with a mild porting, flat top forged TRW pistons, RV cam, 650 double pump-runs really well in my '63 Falcon V-8 from the factory.
I've been looking for GT40 heads for a couple years at my local junkyard, no luck yet. They're the best stock heads to squeeze power out of for cheap, especially if you clean the ports and chambers up. To a lot of us popping $1800 for heads isn't an option.
I was going to do the same, but after buying used heads and having them rebuilt, I opted to get assembled blueprint hp9009 190cc 2.02/1.60, 60cc chambers, screw in studs for like $500 each delivered. They work,- and about double what i would’ve paid for GT40Ps that I’d struggle with headers on
Yes, as claimed by Ford and Ak Miller, the 351W heads milled for 10.5:1 compression ratio on a mildly built 289 worked quite well for me for many years. Of course, given today’s crappy gas, I will be using aluminum heads to be able to run a slightly higher compression ratio than I could with iron heads. But it sure was fun running stock-looking iron heads; only those in the know could tell they weren’t stock 289 heads. Your info regarding the 289 HiPo heads and plain 289 heads is not entirely correct. All early heads and early 289 heads had the narrow slots to guide the pushrods. Only the later heads used the round holes. Yes, 289 HiPo heads used the same size valves, and used the narrow slots to guide the pushrods, and used screw in studs, but also had the cast-in spring seats. (And of course special casting numbers, double dots, etc.) Joe
You are correct. I dometimes gloss over things. It is a consistent issue of do I do more info and cause heads to explode or do I in essence "hand them a shovel so they can dig".
One thing to concider about compresion is the actual dynamic compression. A quickish example is my personal street stock engine. It has a 10.4:1 ratio. With camshaft "A" it cranked 240 cranking compresion and required race fuel to run. Switched tracks so changed cam to suit track. Now camshaft "B" is in and makes 160 cranking compresion and runs great on 91. My daily driven pickup truck has a 9.3:1cr with a torque building cam. I crank at 205# and need 94oct minimun. I also have a 10.6:1cr 306 with factory HO cam that made 350hp and cranks 160#. It runs ok with 87oct.
GT 40 heads are ok but have exhaust manifold/header & sparkplug interference in some applications. BE WARNED! Make sure you get the exhaust manifolds that work with them. Put some Trick Flows,AFRs or another good set on your engine and be done. Float a loan @ the bank if you have to. I just sold a good set for about what you pay to get stock ones reworked. Now I’m gonna build a stroker Windsor with the Cleveland heads. I got lucky enough to find the right intake and have most everything else. I keep it all FOMOCO except for the B&A intake that way. Ford actually made an intake for this but I let that one get away from me but he still had the B&A.
Hey there Jeff, thanks for the video. I've got a 5.0 liter H.O. crate engine that I bought from Ford Racing back in 1994. It was branded as a "Cobra" and it came with the GT40 cast iron cylinder heads and a Ford Racing B-303 camshaft. I put this engine in my 67 Mustang Fastback back in the day after doing quite a bit of research on what it took to convert this "late model" engine into an early version of the 302 small block. Back then in 94, it seemed that conversion info was a bit of a challenge and the parts required weren't necessarily the easiest to find. I went with a Holley 600 CFM Vacuum Secondary carburetor and a Weiand Stealth aluminum high-rise intake along with a 1970 design, B&M C4 transmission. Fuel injection kits, 20 plus years ago, weren't the best in the world and they were expensive in comparison to carburetion, so I went with the carb. One thing was for sure with this conversion effort, if one wasn't careful, screwing things up in a major fashion was rather easy. For instance, I needed a steel distributer gear instead of a cast iron one for the roller camshaft. I found one for my Mallory distributor in the Ford Racing catalog and I needed a 50 oz. imbalance, 157 tooth flex-plate that wasn't. In fact, I played hell trying to find one locally, (since they didn't exist as an O.E. part) and after several long distance phone calls, I located someone who knew what I was talking about and happened to be producing them up in Michigan; at a price that wasn't necessarily as cheap as they are today, but they had one. It happens that the C4 was never offered in a 5.0 Ford Mustang or anything else for that matter that came with the 5.0 liter H.O.'s, 50 oz. imbalance crankshaft. Along the way, I installed a set of Ford Racing 1.7:1 roller rockers which happen to carry a Ford engineering number, but are made by Crane and are the same rockers originally installed in Mustang Cobras from 1993 and 1994. With the B-303 camshaft that came with this engine, these rockers give .512 inch of lift which is just right for my purposes. I'm planning on rebuilding these GT40 heads. I've bought Trick Flow's valve spring kit, P/N TFS-2500100 and new stainless 1.84 inch intake and 1.54 inch exhaust valves with Viton valve seals. I have to replace the original valves because of pitting issues along the area of the valve seats and the O.E. valve springs have to go because they're giving me valve float problems, probably because of their age and use and that they never were anything to brag about in the first place. If needed I'll have a shop put in new valve seats and surface the heads if needed, but I'll do the rest. There's a couple of things about the GT40 heads that I've noticed, you have to plug the thermactor passages in the back of the heads for a non-emissions set-up or else you'll have a massive exhaust leak. If you don't have the factory type screw-in plugs, you can use 5/8"-11 set screws, from the hardware store, to plug the holes. They're tapered on one end and have a female Allen hex on the outer end. The tapered end seats nicely and plugs the passage without any leakage and some red Lock-Tite will keep them in place. Also, I discovered that there's no thermactor "humps" in the exhaust ports like the run of the mill emissions heads have. The holes are there, but not the humps, just a nice even exit. I guess that I've said enough, maybe too much for some folks. Thanks again, Jeff, for all that you do for the hobby and all the best to everyone who took the time to read my rant.
You got like a 300hp combo. I had the vac secondary but imho the 650dp was easier to setup. Also there are much better cams than the base. Check with Brian tooley, cams with similar duration numbers can give 20 to 30hp and better drive ability and fuel mileage. Also on your combo swapping to regular tfs heads gives like 40hp over the gt40s. I'm sure your combo is fun as is. Was just saying if you Decide to upgrade there are inexpensive paths for more fun.
@@dennisrobinson8008 Thanks, Dennis for your input. I'm thinking about 300 HP myself. I'll check out Brian Tooley's camshafts. I'd love to get a set of those Trick Flow heads, the funds are kind of tight for them, but they'll remain on my wish list that's for sure.
@@williamcharles9480 Its all nice stuff. I had a ultradyne 223@.05", 110lsa was worth 25rwhp over my f303 back in the day and stronger torque across the curve. Brian has been at it as long and has gotten so much better. Whats hot on NA cars is tight lsa like 106 or 108. Cool idle and super strong mid range torque. He does that on the chevy LS side and can do the same. These projects are fun.
@@dennisrobinson8008 I would think that Brian Tooley's got a web site, I'll check it out because that's impressive power and those tight LSA's with a decent idle is very interesting. Thanks Dennis.
I am doing my 66 289 2V heads. Talked to a couple of machine shops and got the drivel about it being cheaper to purchase aftermarket heads. Then I asked about AFR 165. No they say, you want the 185. Yes, the cost is the same, but for a street rod to cruise, the smaller gives more port energy. A bit of judicious porting on the 289 heads and getting the machine shop to replace the worn guides with 8mm bronze will allow LS valves to be used; 1.9" intake and 1.55" exhaust. At low lift the valve curtain is the main restriction, so increasing the valve diameters by 0.125" is a big benefit. For the same reason I am going to use 1.7:1 ratio rockers, increase the valve curtain area quickly. I have a low mileage cam from a 351 and the lifters that I previously owned. Cam is an Engle short duration high lift grind that will work well in the 289. Lift will work out to 0.500". With this plan, I will learn some about porting. If the heads are cracked and you are not looking for a concours car, then the aftermarket become a no brainer choice. Just which to select, keeping in mind most performance shop employees are racers and will try to talk you into the bigger port heads. That may not be advantageous for your build.
Ya always got some interesting info Jeff. Especially helpful to newer folks in the hobby. I hope you don’t mind but couple of things. The “slotted” pushrod hole on the 289 hi-po heads is on all 289’s prior to and including early ‘66. They were guides due to the flat end rocker arm style. In ‘66 they changed to the rail end style rockers which precludes the slotted hole. If you change rocker style you must use guide plates. This change was not applied to 66-67 hi-po heads. Hi-po heads also had cast in spring seats, an easy identifier for them. Don’t forget too 351W heads on a 289 or 302 require head bolt spacer inserts. 289/302 used 7/16 head bolts. 351W used 1/2. Keep the great videos coming my friend!!
I agree on just going aftermarket heads unless building for a concours correct car. By the time you put all the machine work and parts into them, you're already almost there. I got a pair of Blueprint heads from Summit for $1100. Came with 2.02/1.94 valves, studs, etc. Although it is fun searching for treasure in the boneyard.
I got a set from a guy on marketplace for two hundred and something. Paid a machine shop a hundred and change to mill and inspect. Gonna lap valves and all is good. Maybe I just got lucky.
first time commenting. I have a 1975 Ford E150 Custom short van with a 351w engine in it. 11 years ago the original engine took a dump so I had to replace it with a remanufactured one. The block itself is from 1974. Everything, including the heads, still from 75. The only upgrades I have done to it, as of last week, were swapping the intake manifold from the original 2 barrel to a aftermarket (JEGS) 4 barrel / single plane / air gap. I added a Edelbrock 1406 w. electric choke. Mickey Thompson Valve covers w. new seals and a regular tune up (new spark plugs, wires, distributor cap and rotor, change of oil). How can I determine what kind of heads I posses w/o taking it all apart lol. Thank you and I really enjoy all the knowledge you are sharing.
The heads should be one of the following: D5TE-DA - 1975-1977, 351, Windsor small-block, 1.84/1.54 valves, 60.4cc chamber D5TE-EA - 1975-1977, 351, Windsor small-block, 1.84/1.54 valves, 60.4cc chamber D5TE-EB - 1975-1977, 351, Windsor small-block, 1.84/1.54 valves, 60.4cc chamber What can happen is you get stuck with 302 castings, if it feels like it's down on power this could be an issue. You would have to remove the valve covers and look for the stampings inside their to know which head you have
Great Info. Yes, everybody knows you can go get aluminum heads that are better than stock cast. I'm here looking for stock cast because of the rules of certain racing divisions.
I remember in the late 80s trying to find a better cylinder head for my '85 GT foureye. The ONLY choice was the J302 Aluminum heads which were crazy expensive, like $1,800 for a bare set, and weren't that great compared to all the modern aluminum Windsor heads. I ended up cleaning up and porting a set of '89 'fuelie 5.0' Windsor heads (which actually were no different than my '85 heads) My Mustang still ran much quicker with those ported OEM cast iron heads w/roller rockers. Now I'm building a Dart 363 with AFR 195s for my '85 GT. 575 HP from a lil 8.2" deck Windsor, N/A.....Yowza!!
I have a pair of Trickflow, they stage III heads with all the good stuff done to them. They will be going on my recently acquired ‘93 Lightning. And put the GT40 intake back on top with a 1 inch spacer for rocker cover spacing. E303 will be the cam. I really want to build a stroker and have a good short block .60 over already that my son and I built several years ago. I put a pair of Windsor heads on my wife’s 5.0, an ‘86 car, I ported them and port matched the runners. Man that engine came to life! Reminded me of my Cleveland in a ‘70 Mach that I had several years ago.
Funny I was using 260 heads in the 1980's for small block drag racing.. just port and polish and big valves and go racing. You can hit a casting flaw when porting those old heads. Just head the head and weld it up.
I found a set of 69 DOOE heads for $20 in excellent condition from a guy who updated his top end to aluminum. Figured for my 351w I couldn't go wrong. We did deck and polish the ports.
@@Lifeistooshort67message me for the best 351 budget intel... I build cheap beasts all the time with them... 393 stroker is the way to go for sure! Cheapest stroker out there... chevy included
Twenty plus years ago I built a '86 5.0 for a Turbo Coupe swap project. After looking at cost to have a set of '69 351 heads built, bought a set of Trick Flow(on sale $949) and sold the old heads. Boy Howdy, I ain't ever going back to any factory iron head.
Great video. Great info. I totally agree. By the time you put all the money into the 69 windsor heads. And you do lose a little compression with them. Just buy some good American made aftermarket heads.
I have a set I am working on, grinding out the humps in the exhaust and just cleaning up and port matching. They have factory pressed in studs, you think I should run them? Or get them drilled and tapped to a screw in style 3/8 stud?
I once hogged out a set of these. Just yard out the studs and replace with Chevy studs so they’re adjustable, drill and roll pin them with loctite. They’ll take about 2 years of hard abuse at over 8k rpm before one finally breaks loose. They will flow and make a .030 over 302 sing.
Best......cammer heads Worst....70s 360 smog era heads. 😄 Really depends on what your purpose for the engine is. Your low, medium, and hi risers all served their purpose for what they were designed for. These days a good set of trick flow fe aluminum heads are better than the stock heads.
427Medium riser &428CJ heads are the ultimate wedge heads for the FE, from Ford. The CJs have the dual bolt pattern on the exhaust for convenience! These are getting harder to find and the price could be more than a set of good aluminum heads. I have had all kinds except the SOHC or tunnel ports. The tunnel port &SOHC heads are not gonna be easy to find or get parts to make work anyway.
If you’re going the aftermarket route be careful with the large valve size and medium to large cams. They do not play nice with stock pistons or even your typical stock replacement 4 valve relief pistons.
Yep, 3 bars or 4 bars on the end of the head. My brother and I have found 2 sets of GT40 heads* in local junkyards They aren't THAT rare. *They are cleaned up and installed on both of his Broncos.
The 2bbl Cleveland heads are a good choice for a 302, yes you will need the track boss intake and different ex, dont use the 4bbl heads, its just a waste and you will not make as much power, slick the ports up and nice valves and springs and there ya go, Drag boss garage is a huge resource of just about anything Cleveland
The Australian Cleveland heads are the best choice. They have the smaller combustion chambers of the U.S. 4V head combined with the smaller ports of the U.S. 2V head. The U.S. 2V chambers are way too big.
I remember when your best bet was to find a set of C09 cylinder heads, they got pretty expensive for the time. Now we have WAY better options in the aftermarket. Unless you're really strapped for cash I don't know why you wouldn't use them.
I put the 69 351 heads on my 302, back in 1985. It woke that motor up, big time. I didn’t have the money for a dyno so I don’t know any numbers. I was 18 when I built the motor. I ordered the rebuild kit from my PAW catalog. My internet wasn’t working 😳. I had a 68 Mustang convertible with an automatic. It would spin the wheels pretty good with the 302 heads but when I put the 351 heads on it the tires would spin through 2nd gear on the street if the top was up. With the top down it would roast them a little less. It was worthless at the track since I had to have to top up and I don’t remember what it ran. So if you want to keep a stock look, find a set of those small chamber heads. All I did was gasket match them.
I'm working with a set of 351 DOOE-C heads, porting them a bit gasket matched, I need to find valves to fit them, and also need springs, b303 cam, explorer upper and lower, 65mm throttle body, 373 gears, I hope she runs good!
Early 351w heads respond very well to port and polish jobs, don't forget about harden exhaust seats, some good quality stainless valves and your set !!!!
Dam.....I had a 69 Galaxie 500 with 351w back in the 90s. I know now why so many folks tried to buy the car for the motor when I left the car sitting in my grandparents yard after I got a new bronco back then. I was sitting on a gold mine and didn't know it. I ended up selling the car in 98 or 99 for 650 bucks cause guy wanted to put the motor in his dirt track car. I was fixing to pull that motor and put it in another bronco I had but, at that time I was young and starting a business and lost interest in the motor swap. I've since learned the 69 351 heads are what the gt40s were based off of.
Thumbs up for keeping that sweet 5th gen F100 in the garage and out of the weather! You preach the Ford engine parts knowledge like a TV evangelist 😂 I mean that in a GOOD way!
One other difference with HiPo heads is valve spring installed height. The regular 289 heads up to 66 1/2 had an installed height of 1.64" to 1.66". The HiPo had the 1.78" installed height which all the heads had for 1967. Just an issue regarding valve springs selection.
1980-81 on the 255ci v8 the "tunnel port" heads. smaller chambers, little smaller valve but room for bigger, the intake ports can be worked and they will flow decent will require extensive work (porting, valves ect) but these heads can be made to flow good #'s
About GT40P heads, headers, and spark plug interference: A set of accel P526S plugs seems to be a workaround answer, as they are a stubby plug and I believe (confirm on your own) they have the correct thread depth for P heads. Another solution is using a set of 90 degree boot plug wires if you can route them properly. Second option is probably the cheaper of the two!
As high & rare as junked Explorers are now (since Foxbody builds got popular), aftermarket does make sense. Off topic: When you gonna align that fender behind you? 😊
I am building 2 windsors. A 221 and a 260. I am going to have to use small 45cc chamber heads as compression change is not an option as with a 289 or 302 (no pistons available). These will be hotter street engines that I am not going to go crazy with. I am using an Offenhauser dual port 360 with 390 or 465cfm 4bbl on the 221 and a cam that is just at the edge of a smooth idle (hyd or maybe roller hyd). I will put bigger valves and open up the ports to match, int and exh, but would like some idea about valve size. Any idea? I have to change them to hard valves and seats anyway.
The notorious E6AE heads with the shrouded valves? They were used 1 year on the Mustang ('86) but were junk so they switched to the E7TE (T as in Truck) for '87-'95 Mustangs because it was the closest to the '85 E5AE head (which were specifically redesigned so the roller lifters could be removed without removing the heads). The E6AE were supposedly used in low po applications until about '91. (IIRC, correctly there was also a E6SE head which was the same as the E6AE.)
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Late to the party, but wanted to mention a couple important points. The 69 and 70+ 351W heads are different. In 70, California needed EGR, so instead of a special casting Ford made all of the 351W heads with a 'bump' cast in the exhaust port for EGR piping. 70 Cali cars had those drilled open, the rest didn't. You can't just grind the bumps completely out when porting the exhaust because they're cast hollow inside, and cutting them too far exposing the internal void will ruin the heads. Find an old-timer who knows how much you can safely cut away or just leave them alone. 69 351W heads didn't have that bump so they flow exhaust a little better. The other thing is steam holes, the small round opening in head gaskets between the water passages you always wondered why it was there. Some 289 and 302 blocks have the issue, not sure about the other sizes. Some blocks have that spot open to the water jacket and some don't. No rhyme or reason, no casting or design number changes, and both types can occur with any year's blocks. If your block has steam holes, your heads need to have them too. Use a head gasket for a template and drill your heads with a similar hole into the water passage. Heads with steam holes work with any block. Mentioned because many early stock 351W heads don't have steam holes, and you'll pull all your hair out trying to make your 289/302 not run hot unless you know the trick.
1968 to 1971 heads are the best non cj heads. 72cc with screw in studs... no guide plates and non adjustable but it's all setup for it to bolt on after that, they all had 90 cc chambers and crappy non adjustable rocker arms... efi heads? Run from those. Also, rare police heads are great but kinda rare. Look for omc cobra marine heads Basically police heads with a D2 part number... police heads are kind if in between early heads and cj heads. For performance.. get a high compression early head. 429 and 460 are identical... no 460 cj though.
I took off a set of the 351 heads from a 1974 galaxy and they had the bigger valves and intake ports with the closed combustion chamber they were factory heads and I also had some 351 heads from a 1975 with bigger valves and intake ports with closed combustion chamber but they had the small plugs and tubes for smog control have you ever seen any of those???
My '68 cougar had those... 302 4v. I never learned enough about them but wonder now if they were desirable. ultimately I swapped in a 351 with D00E heads.
@@tombryant1104 Yes, this is a serious question, I own a 1964 f100, all original and I do not know anything about but you guys are talking about, but I am trying to learn, so yes, I am asking does is being discuss applicable to my engine. I am going through about a quart of oil every 25 miles. Compression seems ok and I have not blowing a trail of smoke, so where is the oil going. I was thinking the heads, through the value seals. Thoughts?
@@michaelgallo3943 Only heads for Y block 272, 292 & 312 interchange, there is no aftermarket support. 1964 was last year for Y before it became a notation in the history books. Back in '70s & earlier, valve stem seals were a common problem. Usually when they have failed there are pieces "laying around" the springs. At 50 miles to quart it should be smoking badly, no way it can burn that much oil without making the occasional cloud. Leaking that much oil, it would be leaving puddles. Run it up to around 50mph in 2nd, back off and let it coast, in gear down to 25, accelerate. Failed valve seals will make a smoke show.
I truly lucked out and found a set of 69 D00E heads is excellent shape for $20, couldn't pass it up. Guy was going with aluminum heads and was giving the old ones away.
I have a set of C90E 302 heads, yes they have 302 on them, not 351.. Closed chamber with like 58cc chambers. I "think" these are the ones called the "police/taxi" heads. Made in March of 69. Info on them is pretty scarce.
you didn't even mention the e7 heads from the 80s. I do appreciate the info, but I do wonder about the 289 non-hipo heads. I have heard tell that you can put bigger valves in them, but the flow suffers because of the chambers contour. Has anybody ever heard any of that?
I'd look to a 1985-1996 F250 with the Windsor. Keep in mind that your may have to modify the mounts to do the small block and the springs will definitely need replacing.
Your gonna miss the BB torque. I've never heard of anyone wanting to go smaller. But your right the 385 engines are some big sob's. If you haven't already swapped motors forget the windsor plan and look at the new godzilla crate motors.
@@EPstroker The 460 is 750 lbs of heavy sitting up front in a 3000# car. Manual steering and manual brakes. No room for a brake booster at all. Will not lose any HP, maybe torque like you said but running a 9 in nodular with 4:11 gears. Love the Godzilla but can build the 408 Windsor for much less. Trying to keep a budget.
I am in the process of rebuilding my 1993 E F I bronco daily driver with a 351w. can you recommend a cam that would work well with the EFI and get the most out of the engine.
HI thanks for sharing Question would the heads your speaking about would they work on a 95 f150 302 I'm retaining factory EFI also currently running bbk short headers I would like to upgrade cam mild upgrade . What to you recommend my truck has 59,000 original miles 2rwd 4r70w trans 3.31 open gears
How much is a set of stock 69 351 heads worth? I was going to stick with them but the AFR 185 Enforcers went on sale - great quality head, f*** what the gate keepers in the forums say, arp hardware, and I don't know how much power I'm making but it's much more than expected. I believe the Enforcers are one of the cheapest name brand heads on the market, and were equivalent to the cost of updating my 69 heads with similar quality parts.
260 1964 has 1.67 intake and 1.46 exhaust. 1965 289 1.78 intake 1.46 exhaust... 1969 through 1974 351w had the same heads 1975 was basically same as C9 heads but were thin casting decreased valve size but had same port casting size and changed to 14mm spark plugs. Then they tank. Until gt40 and gt40p.. Wish Ford allowed the 1966 gt40 racing heads to be sold to the public. It is a match to Ford like what the 461x and 492 double hump heads were to Chevrolet.
Understand that every 6 cc chamber change is ONE FULL point of compression... Depending on the cubes. Going from 54 to 60+ drops your compression to 8/1.
I use to race a 260 in a mustang .I used a solid lifter cam and put larger value and cleaned up the ports and a ford motor performance thin head gasket.and heaver valve springs.a 55o cfm carb and headers.it ran in the low 13s in the quarter. This was in 1965. You can make a 260 run .
Hi, new to your channel and really like your videos. Question, I’m in Australia and managed to get a buddy bar inlet manifold with the Ford part number on it for my 351 Windsor from the states for my 70 Mach1. Back in the day, do you know if they were a good inlet manifold as getting any info on these manifolds is limited. It looks identical to the hi rise inlet manifold Shelby had on the 69 Mustang, but theirs I believe had Shelby on it as mine just has the complete Ford part number. You seem to know your stuff so thought I would just ask. Cheers
I had one of those. And yes, it is a good performing intake and is indeed a match for the Shelby Cobra intake, some of which were, I believe made for Ford/Shelby by Buddy Bar. From Jalopy Journal:Buddy Bar ran a foundry that produced manifolds for Edlebrock in addition to short run products for a number of individuals/companies like Ford. As a side note, Fred Offenhauser and his brother Carl split the sheets and Carl went to work for Buddy. Probably the two best foundry men in the business under one roof.
@@AutoRestoMod Hey thank you for the information about the manifold, that was great to have some info. The only other info I found was when Ford built the GTHO Falcon in Australia, you could by this inlet manifold as an aftermarket bolt on from Ford. No wonder a lot of the GT boys here look closely at it. A mate of mine sold one of these manifolds for $1000 so they can bring good dollars here. Thanks again!!
I got 69 heads and die grinded the humps in the exhaust ports then took them to a machine shop and had to have most of the valves replaced. Took a week die grinding them. Could have had edelbrock.
I have two sets that I pulled off a boat from the 70s. For that matter I have the complete motors. I'm about to have one oversized with a 871 blower Detroit converted for gas..
Jeez, so much was missed or inaccurate. Regular 289 heads up to mid 66 had non rail rockers like the hipo. Also all 289 and 302 heads had 1.78 intake and 1.48 exhaust... up to 1996. The 68 302 heads were a decent head with 58cc chambers... any large plug head had a decent chamber except the smog 68 up heads... all big plug 351w heads are the same... up to 1974. 58cc chambers. Gt40 heads are not 66cc heads...more like 62cc. P heads are 59 to 60cc with the 1.48 exhaust... never mentioned intake port sizes or exhaust ports... that's the good stuff... man alive...
Old 65 289 heads stuffed with 1.94 and 1.60 are the best starting point. WE ran a set, I have a set. We ran a set on a 351w. Bought a set of RPM'S. Made a whopping 1 tenth!! The 60' was faster. All that hype is bs! And they look stock. I've ran the 69 351w heads! Go with the 65 289 heads, have them ported and put 1.94 and 1.60 valves installed.we ran all those heads! The 289 heads look stock too! The 69-70 351W heads have bigger chambers and the exhaust port takes more work! Get a set of Victor Jr past that! Or Canfield
D5ae-ca heads how bad are these heads? Lol gotta a couple free sets looking to buld a 302. Another question 63 Fairlane do i need to cut the shock towers to fit a 351w in there looks pertty tight.
David Vizards Classic Series 289 limited to factory iron heads dual plane and pionts uses the old 289 s opening chamber bowls and 1.94 valves w 1.50 502 hp 411 pounds so the best head is a closed chamber 289
Question: Are there "any" good or okay late model cylinder heads out there? Not just the GT40/P cylinder heads? Right now i have a 66 289 that was said to be (finger quote's) ran before being parked. I really like the idea of running the late model roller can engine. Not just for the better performance aspect. But i have been hearing more and more about new camshaft going flat during the break in process. And this is coming from guys that have been rebuilding engines for 40+ years. Sorry, got off on a tangent. I guess that performance is not the only thing that i myself am looking for. Dependability is also a factor as well.
The Ford Racing/Ford Motorport SVO catalog has always referred to them as "Small Blocks" so I don't know why people have an issue with them being call Small Block Fords. Also, I don't think anyone us making GT40P-headers fir Fox Mustangs anymore (Mac Products made them for Foxes & SN95's but they are out if business). There are no-name cheapos listed on eBay that they claim are for P-heads but who knows how/if they fit. JBA does make them for 1960's Mustangs. IIRC they list them for & Falcons & Fairlanes too. Southwest Speed makes P-headers for street rods.
if you use a Windsor head a on a engine smaller than 302 you need to install a pop up piston the Compression loss will kill more power than you will gain with the Windsor head! We used to drag race 289s back in the late 1960's, If you are using stock pistons the best is the 1966 289 small chamber milled .060. You can get 11.2 to 1 compression with 1966 289 heads. The P head reminds me of a Chevy head you are all ways burning Spark plug Wires off.
![351 Windsor - What You Need to Know About the Ford 351w Small Block [5.8 Liter]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qoK_a0NrtpM/mqdefault.jpg)
![351 Windsor – What You Need to Know About the Ford 351w Small Block [5.8 Liter]](/img/tr.png)
Jeff,
Good video - thank you! I should have mentioned that the 351 heads/blocks use a 1/2" head bolt whereas 260/289/303 heads/blocks use 7/16" bolts. So to put 351W heads on a 260/289/302 you need either special head bolts or head bolt washers. Not a huge deal but just putting it out there.
Paul (in MA)
Agreed. I know that ARP makes a head bolt kit for those, I just forgot to mention the size difference.
Good point. I believe if heads are swapped, intake has to be as well because of block pitch.
They do offer spacer bushings for the 351 head on a 302 as another option
On my Ford Racing crate engine that I bought new in 1994 and was advertised as a "Cobra" 5.0 engine, it had the GT40 iron heads on it. The head bolt holes were for the 351, at 1/2". Ford assembled the darned thing without the washers and just went ahead with installing the factory, 7/16" bolts. I ran the engine for a while before I changed to ARP head bolts and the spacer washers. I got rid of the OE "torque to Yield" bolts and have stayed with the ARP hardware that can be reused over and over.
I don't know why the Ford engine assembly folks didn't use the spacer washers, but it doesn't make me particularly happy about their quality control. I also wonder what Ford did on the 1993-94 "Cobra Mustangs" and if washers were used there? While I didn't encounter any problems during the short time that the engine was run without those washers, it's kind of basic engineering knowledge that the spacer washers should be used to keep the head bolts properly aligned. I strongly recommend using the ARP head bolt kit for the quality, strength and the fact that the kit contains the washers. The head bolt kit is affordable, too.
Ford started using flanged head bolts in around late 1980s or early 1990s if you have them they work great for putting 351w heads on a 289 or 302...
I love the 351 Windsor which for my 1971 Galaxie500 I rebuilt it as a Street Boss, I just hate hearing Clevor! B&A Ford performance had the best intake for this project... and using the Cleveland D1AE 2V heads that I still got... in the shop :) That 351 Street Boss is a Stump Puller of a motor and had no problem getting a 4400 lbs Galaxie moving!
I hate that Cleavor name too. I always have called the Cleveland head 5 liters “ Street Boss.” Because it’s basically a low buck Boss 302.
That r/s fender alignment drivin me nuts.
Same
Me too. LOL
Great vid! Thank you!!
Not to bird dog your research but....
Hi Perf 289 heads in addition to built-in guide plates had built-in valve spring locators.
They were quite the complete package in many ways...just so-so breathing capability.
Good eye on that. I have a lot of information not all of it comes up at once lol.
I scored '69 351W heads from PAW (Performance Automotive Warehouse) with a mild porting, flat top forged TRW pistons, RV cam, 650 double pump-runs really well in my '63 Falcon V-8 from the factory.
I've been looking for GT40 heads for a couple years at my local junkyard, no luck yet. They're the best stock heads to squeeze power out of for cheap, especially if you clean the ports and chambers up. To a lot of us popping $1800 for heads isn't an option.
I was going to do the same, but after buying used heads and having them rebuilt, I opted to get assembled blueprint hp9009 190cc 2.02/1.60, 60cc chambers, screw in studs for like $500 each delivered. They work,- and about double what i would’ve paid for GT40Ps that I’d struggle with headers on
I hear ya!
Aftermarket heads NEED to be fully checked by a head shop. Many heads are not well done.
FACT NOT OPINION.
@@WesternReloader blueprint hp9009's are 850 each now..
@@sps-vf4qq I got lucky to get all my build parts before the price hike
Yes, as claimed by Ford and Ak Miller, the 351W heads milled for 10.5:1 compression ratio on a mildly built 289 worked quite well for me for many years. Of course, given today’s crappy gas, I will be using aluminum heads to be able to run a slightly higher compression ratio than I could with iron heads. But it sure was fun running stock-looking iron heads; only those in the know could tell they weren’t stock 289 heads.
Your info regarding the 289 HiPo heads and plain 289 heads is not entirely correct. All early heads and early 289 heads had the narrow slots to guide the pushrods. Only the later heads used the round holes. Yes, 289 HiPo heads used the same size valves, and used the narrow slots to guide the pushrods, and used screw in studs, but also had the cast-in spring seats. (And of course special casting numbers, double dots, etc.) Joe
You are correct. I dometimes gloss over things. It is a consistent issue of do I do more info and cause heads to explode or do I in essence "hand them a shovel so they can dig".
One thing to concider about compresion is the actual dynamic compression. A quickish example is my personal street stock engine. It has a 10.4:1 ratio. With camshaft "A" it cranked 240 cranking compresion and required race fuel to run. Switched tracks so changed cam to suit track. Now camshaft "B" is in and makes 160 cranking compresion and runs great on 91.
My daily driven pickup truck has a 9.3:1cr with a torque building cam. I crank at 205# and need 94oct minimun. I also have a 10.6:1cr 306 with factory HO cam that made 350hp and cranks 160#. It runs ok with 87oct.
GT 40 heads are ok but have exhaust manifold/header & sparkplug interference in some applications. BE WARNED! Make sure you get the exhaust manifolds that work with them. Put some Trick Flows,AFRs or another good set on your engine and be done. Float a loan @ the bank if you have to. I just sold a good set for about what you pay to get stock ones reworked. Now I’m gonna build a stroker Windsor with the Cleveland heads. I got lucky enough to find the right intake and have most everything else. I keep it all FOMOCO except for the B&A intake that way. Ford actually made an intake for this but I let that one get away from me but he still had the B&A.
@@Axeman428The GT40 heads do not have fitment but the GT40P heads do. GT40 heads fit like regular stock E7 heads.
Hey there Jeff, thanks for the video.
I've got a 5.0 liter H.O. crate engine that I bought from Ford Racing back in 1994. It was branded as a "Cobra" and it came with the GT40 cast iron cylinder heads and a Ford Racing B-303 camshaft. I put this engine in my 67 Mustang Fastback back in the day after doing quite a bit of research on what it took to convert this "late model" engine into an early version of the 302 small block. Back then in 94, it seemed that conversion info was a bit of a challenge and the parts required weren't necessarily the easiest to find.
I went with a Holley 600 CFM Vacuum Secondary carburetor and a Weiand Stealth aluminum high-rise intake along with a 1970 design, B&M C4 transmission. Fuel injection kits, 20 plus years ago, weren't the best in the world and they were expensive in comparison to carburetion, so I went with the carb.
One thing was for sure with this conversion effort, if one wasn't careful, screwing things up in a major fashion was rather easy. For instance, I needed a steel distributer gear instead of a cast iron one for the roller camshaft. I found one for my Mallory distributor in the Ford Racing catalog and I needed a 50 oz. imbalance, 157 tooth flex-plate that wasn't. In fact, I played hell trying to find one locally, (since they didn't exist as an O.E. part) and after several long distance phone calls, I located someone who knew what I was talking about and happened to be producing them up in Michigan; at a price that wasn't necessarily as cheap as they are today, but they had one. It happens that the C4 was never offered in a 5.0 Ford Mustang or anything else for that matter that came with the 5.0 liter H.O.'s, 50 oz. imbalance crankshaft.
Along the way, I installed a set of Ford Racing 1.7:1 roller rockers which happen to carry a Ford engineering number, but are made by Crane and are the same rockers originally installed in Mustang Cobras from 1993 and 1994. With the B-303 camshaft that came with this engine, these rockers give .512 inch of lift which is just right for my purposes.
I'm planning on rebuilding these GT40 heads. I've bought Trick Flow's valve spring kit, P/N TFS-2500100 and new stainless 1.84 inch intake and 1.54 inch exhaust valves with Viton valve seals. I have to replace the original valves because of pitting issues along the area of the valve seats and the O.E. valve springs have to go because they're giving me valve float problems, probably because of their age and use and that they never were anything to brag about in the first place. If needed I'll have a shop put in new valve seats and surface the heads if needed, but I'll do the rest.
There's a couple of things about the GT40 heads that I've noticed, you have to plug the thermactor passages in the back of the heads for a non-emissions set-up or else you'll have a massive exhaust leak. If you don't have the factory type screw-in plugs, you can use 5/8"-11 set screws, from the hardware store, to plug the holes. They're tapered on one end and have a female Allen hex on the outer end. The tapered end seats nicely and plugs the passage without any leakage and some red Lock-Tite will keep them in place. Also, I discovered that there's no thermactor "humps" in the exhaust ports like the run of the mill emissions heads have. The holes are there, but not the humps, just a nice even exit.
I guess that I've said enough, maybe too much for some folks. Thanks again, Jeff, for all that you do for the hobby and all the best to everyone who took the time to read my rant.
Great stuff! We did the 5.0 HO conversion in 1986 with a take out 5.0...talk about no information...
You got like a 300hp combo. I had the vac secondary but imho the 650dp was easier to setup. Also there are much better cams than the base. Check with Brian tooley, cams with similar duration numbers can give 20 to 30hp and better drive ability and fuel mileage. Also on your combo swapping to regular tfs heads gives like 40hp over the gt40s. I'm sure your combo is fun as is. Was just saying if you Decide to upgrade there are inexpensive paths for more fun.
@@dennisrobinson8008 Thanks, Dennis for your input. I'm thinking about 300 HP myself. I'll check out Brian Tooley's camshafts. I'd love to get a set of those Trick Flow heads, the funds are kind of tight for them, but they'll remain on my wish list that's for sure.
@@williamcharles9480 Its all nice stuff. I had a ultradyne 223@.05", 110lsa was worth 25rwhp over my f303 back in the day and stronger torque across the curve. Brian has been at it as long and has gotten so much better. Whats hot on NA cars is tight lsa like 106 or 108. Cool idle and super strong mid range torque. He does that on the chevy LS side and can do the same. These projects are fun.
@@dennisrobinson8008 I would think that Brian Tooley's got a web site, I'll check it out because that's impressive power and those tight LSA's with a decent idle is very interesting. Thanks Dennis.
I am doing my 66 289 2V heads. Talked to a couple of machine shops and got the drivel about it being cheaper to purchase aftermarket heads. Then I asked about AFR 165. No they say, you want the 185. Yes, the cost is the same, but for a street rod to cruise, the smaller gives more port energy. A bit of judicious porting on the 289 heads and getting the machine shop to replace the worn guides with 8mm bronze will allow LS valves to be used; 1.9" intake and 1.55" exhaust. At low lift the valve curtain is the main restriction, so increasing the valve diameters by 0.125" is a big benefit. For the same reason I am going to use 1.7:1 ratio rockers, increase the valve curtain area quickly. I have a low mileage cam from a 351 and the lifters that I previously owned. Cam is an Engle short duration high lift grind that will work well in the 289. Lift will work out to 0.500".
With this plan, I will learn some about porting. If the heads are cracked and you are not looking for a concours car, then the aftermarket become a no brainer choice. Just which to select, keeping in mind most performance shop employees are racers and will try to talk you into the bigger port heads. That may not be advantageous for your build.
If you're 289 heads don't have screw in studs the lift of your cam may cause them to back out.
Ya always got some interesting info Jeff. Especially helpful to newer folks in the hobby. I hope you don’t mind but couple of things. The “slotted” pushrod hole on the 289 hi-po heads is on all 289’s prior to and including early ‘66. They were guides due to the flat end rocker arm style. In ‘66 they changed to the rail end style rockers which precludes the slotted hole. If you change rocker style you must use guide plates. This change was not applied to 66-67 hi-po heads. Hi-po heads also had cast in spring seats, an easy identifier for them. Don’t forget too 351W heads on a 289 or 302 require head bolt spacer inserts. 289/302 used 7/16 head bolts. 351W used 1/2.
Keep the great videos coming my friend!!
Ford once made a kit for this head swap, which included specially made head bolts that precluded the need for the spacer inserts.
@@et76039 Yes sir they sure did. 7/16 threads and an oversized (1/2) shoulder. Thanks for reminding me about those.
I missed that in my talking points. I "knew it" but in trying to keep all the info going I dropped that. Thanks for the correction.
@@AutoRestoMod, hey, we're all on the same team here.
I agree on just going aftermarket heads unless building for a concours correct car. By the time you put all the machine work and parts into them, you're already almost there. I got a pair of Blueprint heads from Summit for $1100. Came with 2.02/1.94 valves, studs, etc. Although it is fun searching for treasure in the boneyard.
Best day of shopping I know of!
I got a set from a guy on marketplace for two hundred and something. Paid a machine shop a hundred and change to mill and inspect. Gonna lap valves and all is good. Maybe I just got lucky.
aftermarket heads have jumped up an average of 300 to 500 more per pair over the last year making the GT40 and GT40P more attractive again .
True.
first time commenting.
I have a 1975 Ford E150 Custom short van with a 351w engine in it. 11 years ago the original engine took a dump so I had to replace it with a remanufactured one. The block itself is from 1974. Everything, including the heads, still from 75. The only upgrades I have done to it, as of last week, were swapping the intake manifold from the original 2 barrel to a aftermarket (JEGS) 4 barrel / single plane / air gap. I added a Edelbrock 1406 w. electric choke. Mickey Thompson Valve covers w. new seals and a regular tune up (new spark plugs, wires, distributor cap and rotor, change of oil).
How can I determine what kind of heads I posses w/o taking it all apart lol.
Thank you and I really enjoy all the knowledge you are sharing.
The heads should be one of the following:
D5TE-DA - 1975-1977, 351, Windsor small-block, 1.84/1.54 valves, 60.4cc chamber
D5TE-EA - 1975-1977, 351, Windsor small-block, 1.84/1.54 valves, 60.4cc chamber
D5TE-EB - 1975-1977, 351, Windsor small-block, 1.84/1.54 valves, 60.4cc chamber
What can happen is you get stuck with 302 castings, if it feels like it's down on power this could be an issue. You would have to remove the valve covers and look for the stampings inside their to know which head you have
@@AutoRestoMod thank you for all this info, sir. I really appreciate it. I will do has advise.
Great Info. Yes, everybody knows you can go get aluminum heads that are better than stock cast. I'm here looking for stock cast because of the rules of certain racing divisions.
I remember in the late 80s trying to find a better cylinder head for my '85 GT foureye.
The ONLY choice was the J302 Aluminum heads which were crazy expensive, like $1,800 for a bare set, and weren't that great compared to all the modern aluminum Windsor heads.
I ended up cleaning up and porting a set of '89 'fuelie 5.0' Windsor heads (which actually were no different than my '85 heads)
My Mustang still ran much quicker with those ported OEM cast iron heads w/roller rockers.
Now I'm building a Dart 363 with AFR 195s for my '85 GT.
575 HP from a lil 8.2" deck Windsor,
N/A.....Yowza!!
Thankfully we've come a long way with that stuff, right?
I have a pair of Trickflow, they stage III heads with all the good stuff done to them. They will be going on my recently acquired ‘93 Lightning. And put the GT40 intake back on top with a 1 inch spacer for rocker cover spacing. E303 will be the cam. I really want to build a stroker and have a good short block .60 over already that my son and I built several years ago. I put a pair of Windsor heads on my wife’s 5.0, an ‘86 car, I ported them and port matched the runners. Man that engine came to life! Reminded me of my Cleveland in a ‘70 Mach that I had several years ago.
That should be a very potent combo.
Thanks for the information… I love this channel, it’s full of all kinds of great content…👍🏼
The GT40P has smaller combustion chamber and hipo manifolds clear the plugs.
Good to know.
All these Windsor videos always fail to mention the 255.
For good reasons. It's no good for anything so you keep it stock for concours or you pull it.
That's one engine in Ford's history that deserves to be forgotten. It never should have been created in the first place.
Thanks it a pleasure to watch you informeial videos
Our pleasure! Bout to start on the OSB 4X8 Paul wall! LOL
Funny I was using 260 heads in the 1980's for small block drag racing.. just port and polish and big valves and go racing. You can hit a casting flaw when porting those old heads. Just head the head and weld it up.
It cost me a lot but AFR heads are amazing on my 289.
I found a set of 69 DOOE heads for $20 in excellent condition from a guy who updated his top end to aluminum. Figured for my 351w I couldn't go wrong. We did deck and polish the ports.
How are those heads working out for you now??
@@Lifeistooshort67 my mechanic has the motor assembled but has been busy so I haven't heard it yet.
@@meek01__53 Ok thanks. Keep me updated if you can. I am building a 351w roller and don't have a lot to spend. So any advice is very welcomed.
@@Lifeistooshort67message me for the best 351 budget intel... I build cheap beasts all the time with them... 393 stroker is the way to go for sure! Cheapest stroker out there... chevy included
Can the E7TE 5.0L 1989 truck head's be reworked for a low end torque application or should they be shit canned?
Twenty plus years ago I built a '86 5.0 for a Turbo Coupe swap project. After looking at cost to have a set of '69 351 heads built, bought a set of Trick Flow(on sale $949) and sold the old heads. Boy Howdy, I ain't ever going back to any factory iron head.
My thoughts too. But there are times when a stock head is prefered.
@@AutoRestoMod I prefer them on my 428CJ, BUT if I ever pull heads again, it'll get aluminum.
Great video. Great info. I totally agree. By the time you put all the money into the 69 windsor heads. And you do lose a little compression with them.
Just buy some good American made aftermarket heads.
My 351W has the D0E heads. After cutting out the "thermatic humps" from each exhaust port they are very good flowing heads.
I have a set I am working on, grinding out the humps in the exhaust and just cleaning up and port matching. They have factory pressed in studs, you think I should run them? Or get them drilled and tapped to a screw in style 3/8 stud?
I once hogged out a set of these. Just yard out the studs and replace with Chevy studs so they’re adjustable, drill and roll pin them with loctite. They’ll take about 2 years of hard abuse at over 8k rpm before one finally breaks loose. They will flow and make a .030 over 302 sing.
Thanks Jeff for the great info - now I have to look at aftermarket heads 😋
You bet!
Could you please do a video on FE heads, best, worst finding codes ect. Thank you very much! Keep up the great work ☯️
Great suggestion! I'll get with Barry Rabotnic on that.
Best......cammer heads
Worst....70s 360 smog era heads.
😄
Really depends on what your purpose for the engine is. Your low, medium, and hi risers all served their purpose for what they were designed for.
These days a good set of trick flow fe aluminum heads are better than the stock heads.
427Medium riser &428CJ heads are the ultimate wedge heads for the FE, from Ford. The CJs have the dual bolt pattern on the exhaust for convenience! These are getting harder to find and the price could be more than a set of good aluminum heads. I have had all kinds except the SOHC or tunnel ports. The tunnel port &SOHC heads are not gonna be easy to find or get parts to make work anyway.
I've been putting 1.84 intakes and 1.55 exhaust valves , plus studs and plates in 1968 - 1974 heads for several years.
Most racers back in the day used a 1.90 valve in them.
If you’re going the aftermarket route be careful with the large valve size and medium to large cams. They do not play nice with stock pistons or even your typical stock replacement 4 valve relief pistons.
Very true statement!
96-97 Explorer GT40 heads have 3 bars cast on the outside each end.
98-01 Explorer P heads have 4 bars cast on the ends.
Good to know Ray!
Yep,
3 bars or 4 bars on the end of the head.
My brother and I have found 2 sets of GT40 heads* in local junkyards
They aren't THAT rare.
*They are cleaned up and installed on both of his Broncos.
@@Turbo4Joe363 nobody really is saying that they are rare, they came on all the 5.0 cobras, 5.8 lighting, and early 5.0 explorer.
The 2bbl Cleveland heads are a good choice for a 302, yes you will need the track boss intake and different ex, dont use the 4bbl heads, its just a waste and you will not make as much power, slick the ports up and nice valves and springs and there ya go, Drag boss garage is a huge resource of just about anything Cleveland
If you don't mind 7 to 1 compression. 2v heads have massive 76cc chambers. Much better off with cc 4v heads... facts. I've built many...
The Australian Cleveland heads are the best choice. They have the smaller combustion chambers of the U.S. 4V head combined with the smaller ports of the U.S. 2V head.
The U.S. 2V chambers are way too big.
I remember when your best bet was to find a set of C09 cylinder heads, they got pretty expensive for the time. Now we have WAY better options in the aftermarket. Unless you're really strapped for cash I don't know why you wouldn't use them.
Me either. I agree with that idea!
I put the 69 351 heads on my 302, back in 1985. It woke that motor up, big time. I didn’t have the money for a dyno so I don’t know any numbers. I was 18 when I built the motor. I ordered the rebuild kit from my PAW catalog. My internet wasn’t working 😳. I had a 68 Mustang convertible with an automatic. It would spin the wheels pretty good with the 302 heads but when I put the 351 heads on it the tires would spin through 2nd gear on the street if the top was up. With the top down it would roast them a little less. It was worthless at the track since I had to have to top up and I don’t remember what it ran. So if you want to keep a stock look, find a set of those small chamber heads. All I did was gasket match them.
I'm working with a set of 351 DOOE-C heads, porting them a bit gasket matched, I need to find valves to fit them, and also need springs, b303 cam, explorer upper and lower, 65mm throttle body, 373 gears, I hope she runs good!
Early 351w heads respond very well to port and polish jobs, don't forget about harden exhaust seats, some good quality stainless valves and your set !!!!
Dam.....I had a 69 Galaxie 500 with 351w back in the 90s. I know now why so many folks tried to buy the car for the motor when I left the car sitting in my grandparents yard after I got a new bronco back then. I was sitting on a gold mine and didn't know it. I ended up selling the car in 98 or 99 for 650 bucks cause guy wanted to put the motor in his dirt track car. I was fixing to pull that motor and put it in another bronco I had but, at that time I was young and starting a business and lost interest in the motor swap.
I've since learned the 69 351 heads are what the gt40s were based off of.
There was also 68cc truck heads in 289/302 having low compression for standard fuel. About 7.5-1 comp.
25 years ago I built a stroker 302 331with 351w head put it a bronco 11.ran super
I say small block Ford too. Glad you didnt mention the crappy 255
289 HIPO also has spring pockets cast into the head.
Yes.
P heads work with most stock manifolds with minor trimming at most being needed
Thumbs up for keeping that sweet 5th gen F100 in the garage and out of the weather! You preach the Ford engine parts knowledge like a TV evangelist 😂 I mean that in a GOOD way!
Right on!
One other difference with HiPo heads is valve spring installed height. The regular 289 heads up to 66 1/2 had an installed height of 1.64" to 1.66". The HiPo had the 1.78" installed height which all the heads had for 1967. Just an issue regarding valve springs selection.
The HiPo 289 heads had cast in spring pockets which he didn't mention.
1980-81 on the 255ci v8 the "tunnel port" heads. smaller chambers, little smaller valve but room for bigger, the intake ports can be worked and they will flow decent will require extensive work (porting, valves ect) but these heads can be made to flow good #'s
Thanks for the heads up.
Got a pair of C90E-G heads. Slapping them on my 302 soon Will update on power (have ported them out a lot now so should be a good bump)
Right on let's hope they work out well for you
About GT40P heads, headers, and spark plug interference:
A set of accel P526S plugs seems to be a workaround answer, as they are a stubby plug and I believe (confirm on your own) they have the correct thread depth for P heads. Another solution is using a set of 90 degree boot plug wires if you can route them properly. Second option is probably the cheaper of the two!
Agreed.
I got Ps on my Foxbody. Number 7 cylinder is only one I had to use different plug wire with bbk shorties.
Also, tri-y headers clear p heads on shock tower cars... so do most stock cast manifolds.
As high & rare as junked Explorers are now (since Foxbody builds got popular), aftermarket does make sense.
Off topic: When you gonna align that fender behind you? 😊
Soon? Like in a car guy time line soon. 😂
@@AutoRestoMod 🤔 _____________ five years later did you get that fender aligned? Some day
P head explorers are still popping up in the junk yard.
We always have Explorers with GT40P (and even GT40) heads in the yards here in SoCal.
E7s and late GT40P heads can be excellent.
I am building 2 windsors. A 221 and a 260. I am going to have to use small 45cc chamber heads as compression change is not an option as with a 289 or 302 (no pistons available). These will be hotter street engines that I am not going to go crazy with. I am using an Offenhauser dual port 360 with 390 or 465cfm 4bbl on the 221 and a cam that is just at the edge of a smooth idle (hyd or maybe roller hyd). I will put bigger valves and open up the ports to match, int and exh, but would like some idea about valve size. Any idea? I have to change them to hard valves and seats anyway.
I've got a set of 87 thunderbird 302 heads that have a closed chamber heads that I've haven't seen any of the other years
The notorious E6AE heads with the shrouded valves? They were used 1 year on the Mustang ('86) but were junk so they switched to the E7TE (T as in Truck) for '87-'95 Mustangs because it was the closest to the '85 E5AE head (which were specifically redesigned so the roller lifters could be removed without removing the heads). The E6AE were supposedly used in low po applications until about '91. (IIRC, correctly there was also a E6SE head which was the same as the E6AE.)
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Mrs Richards: "It's not good enough!"
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Mrs Richards: "Don't be silly! I expect to be able to see the sea!"
Basil: "You can see the sea, it's over there between the land and the sky."
Mrs Richards: "I'm not satisfied. But I shall stay. But I expect a reduction."
Basil: "Why?! Because Krakatoa's not erupting at the moment ?"
Manuel: I speak english very well.
@@AutoRestoMod YOU NAUGHTY MOOSE !
Late to the party, but wanted to mention a couple important points. The 69 and 70+ 351W heads are different. In 70, California needed EGR, so instead of a special casting Ford made all of the 351W heads with a 'bump' cast in the exhaust port for EGR piping. 70 Cali cars had those drilled open, the rest didn't. You can't just grind the bumps completely out when porting the exhaust because they're cast hollow inside, and cutting them too far exposing the internal void will ruin the heads. Find an old-timer who knows how much you can safely cut away or just leave them alone. 69 351W heads didn't have that bump so they flow exhaust a little better.
The other thing is steam holes, the small round opening in head gaskets between the water passages you always wondered why it was there. Some 289 and 302 blocks have the issue, not sure about the other sizes. Some blocks have that spot open to the water jacket and some don't. No rhyme or reason, no casting or design number changes, and both types can occur with any year's blocks. If your block has steam holes, your heads need to have them too. Use a head gasket for a template and drill your heads with a similar hole into the water passage. Heads with steam holes work with any block. Mentioned because many early stock 351W heads don't have steam holes, and you'll pull all your hair out trying to make your 289/302 not run hot unless you know the trick.
Really good information. I had forgotten about the bumps in the exhaust ports on the post 1969 351 head
Will you be doing a similar video on the exhaust manifolds?
I’d love to see a breakdown of the 385 series engine heads. Anything out there?
1968 to 1971 heads are the best non cj heads. 72cc with screw in studs... no guide plates and non adjustable but it's all setup for it to bolt on after that, they all had 90 cc chambers and crappy non adjustable rocker arms... efi heads? Run from those. Also, rare police heads are great but kinda rare. Look for omc cobra marine heads Basically police heads with a D2 part number... police heads are kind if in between early heads and cj heads. For performance.. get a high compression early head. 429 and 460 are identical... no 460 cj though.
I took off a set of the 351 heads from a 1974 galaxy and they had the bigger valves and intake ports with the closed combustion chamber they were factory heads and I also had some 351 heads from a 1975 with bigger valves and intake ports with closed combustion chamber but they had the small plugs and tubes for smog control have you ever seen any of those???
My '68 cougar had those... 302 4v. I never learned enough about them but wonder now if they were desirable. ultimately I swapped in a 351 with D00E heads.
Where does my 292 Y block in my 64 F100 fit into this discussion?
Your heads are being used to prop the door(s) open... Sorry...
If this is a real question, I believe the '57 312 head was best breathing.
LOL.
@@tombryant1104 Yes, this is a serious question, I own a 1964 f100, all original and I do not know anything about but you guys are talking about, but I am trying to learn, so yes, I am asking does is being discuss applicable to my engine. I am going through about a quart of oil every 25 miles. Compression seems ok and I have not blowing a trail of smoke, so where is the oil going. I was thinking the heads, through the value seals. Thoughts?
Since you're losing oil so fast when driving, my best guess is a leaking head or intake gasket. Had it happen on a dodge 360.
@@michaelgallo3943 Only heads for Y block 272, 292 & 312 interchange, there is no aftermarket support. 1964 was last year for Y before it became a notation in the history books. Back in '70s & earlier, valve stem seals were a common problem. Usually when they have failed there are pieces "laying around" the springs. At 50 miles to quart it should be smoking badly, no way it can burn that much oil without making the occasional cloud. Leaking that much oil, it would be leaving puddles.
Run it up to around 50mph in 2nd, back off and let it coast, in gear down to 25, accelerate. Failed valve seals will make a smoke show.
I always wanted to build a 392 Clevor ,just bacause it wouls look cool and be different than what most may do and still make good power in a streetcar
A set of heads that were over looked are the 92-95 gt40 heads that came on the 5.8L ford lighting.
Agreed.
good stuff... and I can certainly hear it too!
Good to hear!
I truly lucked out and found a set of 69 D00E heads is excellent shape for $20, couldn't pass it up. Guy was going with aluminum heads and was giving the old ones away.
Those are the best you can get for stock irons on a 351. The chamber size is problematic on a 302 or 289 though.
My 65 has a punched out 302 to 306 with 65 289 heads. The car is a rocket. With a 650 Edelbrock I can run it to 6k and it pulls all the way through
I have a set of C90E 302 heads, yes they have 302 on them, not 351.. Closed chamber with like 58cc chambers. I "think" these are the ones called the "police/taxi" heads. Made in March of 69. Info on them is pretty scarce.
On a 302 block with 351w heads, will the 302 intake fit?
you didn't even mention the e7 heads from the 80s. I do appreciate the info, but I do wonder about the 289 non-hipo heads. I have heard tell that you can put bigger valves in them, but the flow suffers because of the chambers contour. Has anybody ever heard any of that?
Thoughts on 302 heads on a 351 Windsor? apparently the higher compressions alright on the LPG?
Would like to replace my 460 BBF to a 351 based alum block build. 460 is just too big in there and heavy. Thanks for the info Jeff, great stuff!!
I'd look to a 1985-1996 F250 with the Windsor. Keep in mind that your may have to modify the mounts to do the small block and the springs will definitely need replacing.
Your gonna miss the BB torque. I've never heard of anyone wanting to go smaller. But your right the 385 engines are some big sob's.
If you haven't already swapped motors forget the windsor plan and look at the new godzilla crate motors.
Have you ever seen a 460 sitting next to a 32 valve 4.6L DOHC? The 4.6L is WAY bigger!
@@EPstroker The 460 is 750 lbs of heavy sitting up front in a 3000# car. Manual steering and manual brakes. No room for a brake booster at all. Will not lose any HP, maybe torque like you said but running a 9 in nodular with 4:11 gears. Love the Godzilla but can build the 408 Windsor for much less. Trying to keep a budget.
Build a 393... 300 bucks for a crank, stock 351w rods and hundreds of choices on 302 ford pistons...low buck monsters
I found 351w gt heads in an ‘85 e-350 long body that came with a 351 HO 4-v.
The HO351s are fairly hard to find now. But yes they did have a little bit better head than the 302HO.
I am in the process of rebuilding my 1993 E F I bronco daily driver with a 351w. can you recommend a cam that would work well with the EFI and get the most out of the engine.
HI thanks for sharing Question would the heads your speaking about would they work on a 95 f150 302 I'm retaining factory EFI also currently running bbk short headers I would like to upgrade cam mild upgrade . What to you recommend my truck has 59,000 original miles 2rwd 4r70w trans 3.31 open gears
How much is a set of stock 69 351 heads worth? I was going to stick with them but the AFR 185 Enforcers went on sale - great quality head, f*** what the gate keepers in the forums say, arp hardware, and I don't know how much power I'm making but it's much more than expected. I believe the Enforcers are one of the cheapest name brand heads on the market, and were equivalent to the cost of updating my 69 heads with similar quality parts.
Air Flow Research has always been a really good name. If they work, use them!
260 1964 has 1.67 intake and 1.46 exhaust. 1965 289 1.78 intake 1.46 exhaust... 1969 through 1974 351w had the same heads 1975 was basically same as C9 heads but were thin casting decreased valve size but had same port casting size and changed to 14mm spark plugs. Then they tank. Until gt40 and gt40p.. Wish Ford allowed the 1966 gt40 racing heads to be sold to the public. It is a match to Ford like what the 461x and 492 double hump heads were to Chevrolet.
Understand that every 6 cc chamber change is ONE FULL point of compression... Depending on the cubes. Going from 54 to 60+ drops your compression to 8/1.
True. That is why I mentioned the '68 as being the best place to start with the 351W head.
@@AutoRestoModNO W ever had chambers smaller than 62 cc. Not to mention there were no 1968s.
The C90E & D0OE 351W are always listed as 60cc chambers...
@@AutoRestoMod
69-70 W head is 60+ cc nominal, MOST measure 62
Ai yai yai yai ma head hurts now. Aaaaaannnndddd now I don’t know what I want to do with my 260 🤦♂️
LOL. Anything will cost you compression. So, get a set of 289 heads and flat top pistions. Should breath way better.
I use to race a 260 in a mustang .I used a solid lifter cam and put larger value and cleaned up the ports and a ford motor performance thin head gasket.and heaver valve springs.a 55o cfm carb and headers.it ran in the low 13s in the quarter. This was in 1965. You can make a 260 run .
Those p heads may be a pain for auto engines, but they are great for boats, due to the upswept exhaust manifolds.
Good information.
J Code 302 heads worked pretty good on my 289
Since I was paying attention please lift the fender on the Ford truck so the chome and the lines match lol
Sadly Larry the big problem is that the trim doesn't match because someone pop riveted the trim on crooked. No you can't make this stuff up.
Hi, new to your channel and really like your videos. Question, I’m in Australia and managed to get a buddy bar inlet manifold with the Ford part number on it for my 351 Windsor from the states for my 70 Mach1. Back in the day, do you know if they were a good inlet manifold as getting any info on these manifolds is limited. It looks identical to the hi rise inlet manifold Shelby had on the 69 Mustang, but theirs I believe had Shelby on it as mine just has the complete Ford part number. You seem to know your stuff so thought I would just ask. Cheers
I had one of those. And yes, it is a good performing intake and is indeed a match for the Shelby Cobra intake, some of which were, I believe made for Ford/Shelby by Buddy Bar.
From Jalopy Journal:Buddy Bar ran a foundry that produced manifolds for Edlebrock in addition to short run products for a number of individuals/companies like Ford. As a side note, Fred Offenhauser and his brother Carl split the sheets and Carl went to work for Buddy. Probably the two best foundry men in the business under one roof.
@@AutoRestoMod Hey thank you for the information about the manifold, that was great to have some info. The only other info I found was when Ford built the GTHO Falcon in Australia, you could by this inlet manifold as an aftermarket bolt on from Ford. No wonder a lot of the GT boys here look closely at it. A mate of mine sold one
of these manifolds for $1000 so they can bring good dollars here. Thanks again!!
I got 69 heads and die grinded the humps in the exhaust ports then took them to a machine shop and had to have most of the valves replaced. Took a week die grinding them. Could have had edelbrock.
AFR 165s. Nothing else.
I have two sets that I pulled off a boat from the 70s. For that matter I have the complete motors. I'm about to have one oversized with a 871 blower Detroit converted for gas..
That's gonna be cool
outstanding! good info.
Thanks for the kind words
Jeez, so much was missed or inaccurate. Regular 289 heads up to mid 66 had non rail rockers like the hipo. Also all 289 and 302 heads had 1.78 intake and 1.48 exhaust... up to 1996. The 68 302 heads were a decent head with 58cc chambers... any large plug head had a decent chamber except the smog 68 up heads... all big plug 351w heads are the same... up to 1974. 58cc chambers. Gt40 heads are not 66cc heads...more like 62cc. P heads are 59 to 60cc with the 1.48 exhaust... never mentioned intake port sizes or exhaust ports... that's the good stuff... man alive...
great video and helpful
Glad it was helpful!
Old 65 289 heads stuffed with 1.94 and 1.60 are the best starting point. WE ran a set, I have a set. We ran a set on a 351w. Bought a set of RPM'S. Made a whopping 1 tenth!! The 60' was faster. All that hype is bs! And they look stock. I've ran the 69 351w heads! Go with the 65 289 heads, have them ported and put 1.94 and 1.60 valves installed.we ran all those heads! The 289 heads look stock too! The 69-70 351W heads have bigger chambers and the exhaust port takes more work! Get a set of Victor Jr past that! Or Canfield
Good segment, just one thing, alloy heads change the harmonics and you might crack the bloke. Cast heads are stronger. Just a thought.
Agreed
So doesn't the difference in deck height not allow the installation of 351 heads on a 302.?
D5ae-ca heads how bad are these heads? Lol gotta a couple free sets looking to buld a 302. Another question 63 Fairlane do i need to cut the shock towers to fit a 351w in there looks pertty tight.
Windsor will fit, but headers may be a issue. The D5s will put in work but will never be great performers.
David Vizards Classic Series 289 limited to factory iron heads dual plane and pionts uses the old 289 s opening chamber bowls and 1.94 valves w 1.50 502 hp 411 pounds so the best head is a closed chamber 289
Question: Are there "any" good or okay late model cylinder heads out there? Not just the GT40/P cylinder heads?
Right now i have a 66 289 that was said to be (finger quote's) ran before being parked.
I really like the idea of running the late model roller can engine. Not just for the better performance aspect. But i have been hearing more and more about new camshaft going flat during the break in process. And this is coming from guys that have been rebuilding engines for 40+ years.
Sorry, got off on a tangent. I guess that performance is not the only thing that i myself am looking for. Dependability is also a factor as well.
Most of the aftermarket heads are really good. As for the stock iron heads, the GT40 and the GT40P are the best of the lot.
Thanks I'm enjoying your vids more 351w/ 69 please .
We might!
The Ford Racing/Ford Motorport SVO catalog has always referred to them as "Small Blocks" so I don't know why people have an issue with them being call Small Block Fords.
Also, I don't think anyone us making GT40P-headers fir Fox Mustangs anymore (Mac Products made them for Foxes & SN95's but they are out if business).
There are no-name cheapos listed on eBay that they claim are for P-heads but who knows how/if they fit. JBA does make them for 1960's Mustangs. IIRC they list them for & Falcons & Fairlanes too. Southwest Speed makes P-headers for street rods.
What's better GT40 heads or 351 Windsor head
The GT40 and GT40P were "high swirl" heads. That was their advantage.
Thanks for that!
Those 40Ps, you missed the big reason why the spark plugs are different, the chambers are 58ccs
Can you put a 1974 351 head on a 68 289? I was told you could. I know things changed in 1969
if you use a Windsor head a on a engine smaller than 302 you need to install a pop up piston the Compression loss will kill more power than you will gain with the Windsor head! We used to drag race 289s back in the late 1960's, If you are using stock pistons the best is the 1966 289 small chamber milled .060. You can get 11.2 to 1 compression with 1966 289 heads. The P head reminds me of a Chevy head you are all ways burning Spark plug Wires off.
True
I put a pair of c9oe 351 heads on a 289 and I only had 80 pounds of compression I had to go to a pair of 289 4v heads then it run fine
Chamber on the 351 C9 head is larger.
What about the 1980 255 v8 ?
To me the 2:55 was always kind of a but why engine.