Great work Dave. I like that you act like a campaigner, a motorist and a business and motorcade person all in one. Away from home in unfamiliar territory. Went to big Tesco in Yarmouth. First charger not working. Phoned provider who were responsive and helpful. Had the pod point app from previous week. Saw a second charger at 22Kw but not working. Went to third, at same site and at 7kw the equipment lit like it was charging and after 15 mins no charge showing on my dash. Had to give up. Next day went to new services 4 miles from Yarmouth at Bradwell on a new housing estate. So new, that the road names weren't in place and Sat Nav couldn't help. 8 chargers unused. Fast charging a mile from the hospital. On 250 miles return, another new facility at Bicker in Lincolnshire. Rapid charging and only saw one other electric car on my short top up visit. This morning free Electricity from Octopus on home charger for two hours from 7am to 9am. It's a mixed experience, but the new sites will lead the change.
Hi Dave, good to see you keeping up the anti-FUD. I don't like the loud music on the intro, personal I guess. Just Get A Tesla did the same. We could do with a definitive list of all chargers with any links to fossil fuel industry. I will avoid all of these, BP, Shell, Apple green etc. For me somewhat personal, I was diagnosed stage 4 terminal lung cancer in 2020. Never smoked or worked in industry, fossil fuel pollution has definate links. Best wishes
My sister died of throat cancer, never smoked a day in her life or worked in industry, you really need to think about a class action against government for allowing these oil giants to kill us. It can be your legacy ?
Very thoughtful and thorough, but most people will not watch it through. Charging prices in the UK are scandalous. Have done twice Europe tour in a q4 etron40 each around 5 thousand K. Most expensive prices were in UK, then Italy. Not a nice feeling honestly. It looks like policy makers put on the brakes to adopt EV’s in the UK Best upgrade for my tsecond rip was the TESLA charging possibility- really good option…price wise as well.
Hi Dave, thanks for the great update on the current state of public charging. I do 80-90% of my charging at home, however I drive from Wirral to Hemel Hempstead about once a month, so I do need to use motorway chargers. I was very impressed with Gridserve in the summer when I drove to Brighton and back I got 3 very rapid charges (about 20 minutes to get up to 80%), I loved their Gatwick EV forecourt and they had 20% off. Since then my experience with them has been more mixed. I used their Rugby services chargers in September (I hadn’t planned to but my son wanted the toilet) I had to queue up because 4 chargers were out of order and the offer was down to 10%. I used the Toddington South Gridserve chargers in October, which were in a very awkward position. Still very fast though. Sorry to be pedantic by the way, but you got your airplane pioneers mixed up. The Wright brothers did the first powered flights in 1903. Alcock and Brown were the first to fly over the Atlantic in 1919 🙂.
@@hishamg don't rely on Gridserve Leicester Forest East Northbound. Their two chargers have been out of order for 2 years due to "power limitations". You couldn't make it up.
Hi Dave I live in Colne Lancashire at the end of the M65 , I have been told that there is going to be a charge point with about six charges which should open soon . Just thought you would be interested if you didn’t know.
Just a few points. Having been on 3 road trips to France with my BZ4X, their EV infrastructure is miles ahead of ours and Ev charting is on the whole a third cheaper than here. Point 2, Gloucester services has Westmoreland chargers at 64p but also a bank of Tesla superchargers which at my last visit few days ago were not in service. I guess these will be 56p so a bit of a competitor for Westmoreland. Could explain why not working. Point 3, Frankley services Birmingham M6 has Tesla superchargers Southbound (56p) but only Gridserve northbound (79p) and you can't get across motorway!? point 4, Octopus my electricity supplier charge me 6.7p kilowatt overnight. so the comparison to miles per galloln go esout the window if you mainly charge at home i.e for £4.50 I can go 250 miles!
Good point not the Dave's comparison is not quite right based on your data a 2.0 Audi A4 that does 38mpg 250 miles would cost £39.57 based on £6 per gallon . So you cost at home is brilliant but anything over 59p per kWh 67kw is going to cost more than £39 for 250miles . So outside charging can cost more than petrol at thank goodness 79p per kWh is not common
Great video as ever, I did see the new chargers at Gloucester south services last week, a bit out of the way & could do with more lighting at night (It was about 5.30) They do need to put in charging for none EV parking there, I followed an old transit around the carpark that I thought was leaving, they drove around a near empty carpark to park in the EV bays. Seems to becoming more common by the day.
Any chance of also including Hybrids in your discussions. I have only charged at home at 12p per kwh and get 50 MPG when running on petrol. I can only charge at 7 kwh max, so all the chargers you are talking about are probably no use to me?
No, I will never include hybrids. You cannot externally charge a hybrid. All the public rapid and ultra-rapid chargers I talk about are CCS2 and you cannot even use them on a PHEV at all. All home chargers are type 2 and are designed to be used on a PHEV and I have made several videos on PHEVs, and all figures I quote are photographed or filmed, so these were the actual figures the car reported.
@@davetakesiton sorry should have been more clear I have a C5-AIRCROSS PHEV, so can charge IT externally with a type 2, 7kw charger. I haven't charged at a public type 2 charger as I thought, once the battery was flat, it would be cheaper to run it on petrol (approx 45mpg) given the cost of public chargers. With a 13.5kwh battery I get about 30 miles on electric mode.
Good update thank you. I detest Apple green. I have 2 EVs and of the dozen or so times I have tried to use AG chargers it has worked only once, and then for 3 mins. Try their (un) help line - response is basically "can't connect, what a shame. Bye"
Faster charging isn't necessarily better. When driving an ICE on a long trip I would normally stop about every 2 to 3 hours. The stop would normally last between 15 and 30 mins, with 20 to 25 mins being most common. If I can charge in 20 to 25 mins enough to take me on the next leg of the trip, charging in less than 15 mins doesn't really help me, in fact it's an annoyance as I'd have to interrupt my meal or coffee or whatever to move my car to avoid idle charges. If the car could charge in 3 mins that would be a bit like stopping for petrol, but between 5 and 15 mins it would be a pain, long enough to be a drag but to short for me to enjoy a proper break.
Just watched YT video from another contributor showing how charging his EV was a pain in the arse. As an EV driver myself I can relate to that. I’ve charged my EV hundreds of times in the last three years. Between failed startup, charging stopping after 5 minutes( usually just as you order a coffee), difference between what the EVSE says it has discharged and how much the car say it received or simply just out of order is a right total pain in the posterior.
With westmoreland owning Rheged I wonder if they could kick out GRIDSERVE there as well as that has 2 of the old 50kw units. I don’t go there any more now that Tebay has 6 dual bay high power swarco unit at 64p rate. Would you be able to ask on our behalf ?
Used to be our stop on the way north too but so many options now. Did Gridserve ever get that double headed charger actually giving 2 sessions and that would have made 3 actual ports.
I used only Tesla open to all chargers with membership on a road trip this weekend. As low as 37p per kWh. Frankley to Amesbury was a slog in the wind & rain but Banbury to Trentham Gardens was much easier. The latter has a choice between V3 & V4 chargers I couldn’t get the first V4 I tried to work but had no trouble with the rest. One charging space was blocked because a Hyundai driver had taken the wrong cable. They only took £20 pre authorisation which was corrected immediately too. The car park spaces at Banbury were nice and wide.
The new V4 cabinets can supply up to 8 charging stations. I suspect this is about saving Tesla money by reducing the number of cabinets rather making all V4 chargers much faster charging.
not really. The V3 cabinets push about 370kW for 4 stalls. So about 740kW for 8 stalls. These new ones likely will do 1200kW (1.2MW) for 8 stalls, so there will be more power available.
@davetakesiton Really hadn't noticed that on the app. if you do a search for instavolt off peak it will find a page from the 22nd of August in the instavolt newsroom.
@@davetakesiton that is strange, maybe they have removed that offer because no one made use of it, will check the app tonight to see if the pricing changes
Thank you for your rundown on "public" charging costs. I have been pondering if/when to join the EV brigade. I have solar and a small battery so could charge at home. The only semi sensible option seems to be buying/leasing a Tesla. Sadly my nearest supercharger is eighteen miles away. I presume the charger owners need a RSI to satisfy their bean counters. If domestic rates around 24p per kWh are what Ionity et Al are paying that's some mark up at the chargers even with 20% vat! You may have gathered I'm still undecided. My old ICE motor will manage 300 plus miles on £40!
Hi dave, I'm in the market to get my first EV, I'm thinking a used tesla, some are now on offer for around 15000 pounds, not bad for a 60000 pound car that's only 2 years old, and 20000 miles on the clock, but I will not be able to charge at home, I live in a 7th floor flat, with under ground parking, EVs are not allowed to park in it, so to prepare for my next car, I've had a 3 gallon tank fitted to my diesel car, and 300 kgs of ballast in the boot to replicate the tyre wear ect, I've been getting around 180 miles of range and I only fill the tank to 80 percent and I use motorway services for the extra expense, I'm so looking forward to be able to go 0bto 60 in 2 seconds I can't wait thanks.
You’re not ready for an EV, your learning curve will be too severe. Eg Tesla’s have LFP batteries and the manual tells you to always charge to 100%. Without basic knowledge like that, that millions of non EV drivers already know, please stick with your diesel, you know a little bit more about that but obviously not enough if you fill up the tank at a motorway services. Even EV drivers know you don’t do that.
Thank you. Not too sure about some of your figures. And you are forgetting about deprecation on a lease based on 15k per annum model 3 4247 down 707 per month ice Audi A4 Avant 2610 down 435 a month both new , not sure how the ev will cost less for a private buyer and of course the ice contributes 24.5 billion in fuel duty to the economy .
Wow, I bet that took you some time to research. But no, depreciation is totally irrelevant once you lease an EV. You pay the instalments and hand it back.
@@davetakesiton thanks for reply true you do hand it back but the depreciation is factored into the lease thats why ev lease is more than petrol equiv its all on lease loco .i will get an ev soon its just as a private buyer its the overall cost and i now learn about the confusion of outside charging so many apps etc that puts me off. I hate the app is cheaper than swipe why petrol ststions dont have any of this nonsense
Be-EV have some 50kW chargers for e taxis only - I’ve never seen one being used. I once a taxi parked next to one but it wasn’t plugged in and was blocking a 22kW AC charger
Love your videos. I have an IONIQ6. Best car I have ever driven and its so quiet and restful during long drives. I live in Scotland and travel down to the midlands most weeks and occasionally to London. I have a passport for IONITY and find there charging locations perfect for my needs and at 43p probably one of the cheapest after Tesla. I have not really had any issue of waiting to charge and if I have its usually Leeds. They have 6 chargers there and I spoke to someone connected with Ionity and they are going to increase that to 24 ... they are waiting on planning permission. The same person said they have 30 new sites in the UK in various stages of installation. Thought Id let you know. keep the EV flag flying
Hi Dave, I have some ev safety info I would like you to pass on to your viewers. My son checks accident damaged cars for insurance companies, he knows I am getting an ev soon, so gave me this info. It appears they are getting damage reports of ev's with damage caused by the ev's just taking off on thier own and crashing In too whatever's in front of them. However it appears the problem is that because ev's are silent when stopped but are still in drive drivers are inadvertently placing their foot on the accelerator with serious consequences. This happens quite often when the care is in drive and the driver reaches over to the back seat. Maybe you could do a video on safety tips for ev drivers. Many thanks for your great video's to date . CHEERS CLIFF.
Yes, if you drive them in the same way you'd drive an ice car with an auto transmission, no problem. In fact, some EVs would jam the brakes on themselves in such circumstances.
Nice of you to update the gen public about public charging whats your assumption of miles per kwh Dave? as efficiency varies greatly across the EV spectrum. I assume 4mi kwh if i chose an Up or Ioniq. Did you see the latest What car trip to France in a Hybrid & a Peugeot plus Tesla EV? It seemed a bitbof a bind for the Peugeot driver in particular.
Yes I watched it. The problem is EVs constantly evolve. Different battery cells, battery chemistry, BMS, efficiency, weight, aerodynamics, heatpumps. Then we have different temperatures, weather, speeds, driving styles, topography, etc. My car is a very consistent 3 miles per kWh over the entire last 5 years, winter and summer, but I can very easily get 4 m/kWH if I slow down and it’s summer. This video even at 2.6m/kWh found the Tesla the cheapest of the three and they did say that this was all on superchargers. In this case if the first and last charges had been at home as most of us do, it would be no competition. That would also have reduced the price for the Peugeot dramatically as they stated that they used 85p chargers. Far too many variables for absolute definitive answers. This video showed both EVs were cheaper than ICE but took longer to charge. I’ll take that
I am all for the extra options, but I am not bothered about increasing charging speeds, I have found 100 kWh is almost too fast because I only use ultra rapid if I am doing a long 300+ mile journey and I will always be stopping for food and comfort. I find that I am having to go out and move the car as it finishes to quickly. You can limit the speed using the car app, so I am happier to have under 100 kWh charging when I need to stop!
@@davetakesiton Of course there will be some, especially people who drive for a living (taxis, deliveries, etc.). What I did last time is I found some 50kWh chargers in the same service station and left the quicker ones for others to use.
It's not rocket science. If the governments of Europe want a mass take up of electric vehicles there needs to be massive incentives. EV's half the price of ICE vehicles. Charging half the price of petrol/diesel. No road tax or congestion charges. But what we have is EV's 20-40% higher than the ICE equivalent. Depreciation 30-50% more than the ICE equivalent. Charger rates up to twice the price of petrol/diesel. Taxed from 2025 and ULEZ charges. Rumours are that Gridserve even at 79p per kWh is losing money and are in trouble. VW, Ford, Polestar, Porsche are in dire trouble because of their massive investments in EV's and poor sales. Vans and HGVs will never be viable in EV form in our lifetimes. There is already talk that the EU is likely to push back their 2035 deadline and then probably scrap it altogether.
I'm not an EV hater (although I'm sure Dave thinks so) but I think 'in our lifetime' is a stretch. Cakes and drinks while filming. Yes, that's never added to the avg charging price is it? As ever with EV's, if you can home charger, do only up to 100 miles a day commuting and every 3-4 years you used to renew a car lease or regularly update your vehicle for a new car (im taking 30-45k) then get an EV, it will likely save you some money, if you ignore depreciation. Outside of that, if you are running a decent 45-55mpg ICE and can't home charge, don't get an EV. Glad the penny seems to be dropping with Dave. Summary, if you can't home charge, don't get an EV!!
It’s already very well incentivised for tesla. No road tax, well £10, no service, 31p per KWHr and depreciation is no where near what you are quoting. since the price adjustment in Q1 over 3 years it’s within 5% of the equivalent ICE, data from autotrader
I suppose it depends how old each of us are 😉. I really don't think HGVs will be fully electric in the next 20-30 years. The class 1's available now have a range of around 100 miles fully loaded. The charging infrastructure is non existent in the UK for HGVs. It would mean dropping the trailer and then trying to drive an eight ton unit into a car charging bay. I do 300-450 miles a day in my S650 Scania and I've never ever seen charge points in the HGV parking areas at any service stations. Agreed for the 60% of British households that don't have off street charging an EV make absolutely no sense, however our government is trying to force EV's on everyone with their ridiculous 2030 deadline.
2021 Model 3's Long range AWD 25,000 miles . Over 10 for sale on Cinch all under £25k. The sellers would have gotten around £20k. They were £55k+ new. That's a loss of over £10k per year per 7000 miles.
@@stevecoinitin7521 Don’t really understand why the UK is still buying more than 1.5 billion of it from us here in France alone, then there’s others such as Norway/Denmark etc which they’re buying it from.
Tesla will still have the open to all V2 & V3 for another 12 months while they do upgrades so they got an extension. The UK & Northern Europe manager Oliver Dodd announced this on X/twitter.
If any CPOs (barring Tesla) are reading the comments - stop charging more than 70p/KWh! Your maximum price needs to be 69p/KWh peak/anytime, suck up the "small loss for the shareholders/investors". You're not going to get sufficient customers to remain solvent if your pricing remains "stupid high", any EV owner with an ounce of sense will avoid CPOs that are perceived as "gouging" (and right now, that's the vast majority of you). Set your sights longer term, charge a bit less now to build up a customer base that prefers your offering and will stick by you in the future.
Dave, good video and a lot of data but the MPG comparisons you use doesn’t include EVs needing an extra 10% charge due to efficiency’s, battery composition etc and although charging from home is much much cheaper (7p per kilowatt you can not charge faster than 7.2kw so during off-peak periods (typically 23:30-05:30 would give 180 miles but real world is closer to 150 thus on a 200 mile trip you still need to use a public charger. Also one very important point about home charging is that invariably a cheaper night tariff will mean a higher day time electricity tariff (typically 10-15% more) thus negating over the course of a year much of benefits of charging overnight. Battery technology’s are changing eg solid state which are lighter and have longer range and and will be less expensive to manufacture (eventually) so until they are common place and EVs are on par or even cheaper than a EVs then I’m afraid you are not going to win many hearts and minds re EVs.
Actually you're wrong there. I'm on Octopus flexible. Day rate 29.4p Night rate 13.2p. Their Octopus Intelligent Go designed for compatible EV or charger for my area is 25.5p day rate. 7.2p night rate.
My British Gas tariff is about 1 pence more per kWh than their standard day tariff. The off peak is 7.9p per kWH. I use 2500 kwh off peak per annum and 5000 kWh peak. Plenty of savings there.
So petrol arrives into an ICE car without any losses, such as drilling, refining, transporting and then combusting? Pence per mile is an easy metric. But many don’t know their own costs.
You're also wrong about the off-peak time. Octopus will extend that base period to give you as much charge as you need. For example, if I need to put 70kWh into my battery by 06:30 am and I plug it in at 18:30 the previous evening, octopus will extend the off-peak window. My battery is only 60kWh and I don't run my battery below 30%.
You are fighting a losing battle Dave. You are arguing to try to make EV charging costs work out the same as mpg. For private buyers to adopt EVs on mass the running costs would have to be half the cost of petrol and diesel cars. Just matching the mpg costs isn't enough as the purchase cost is higher and the resale cost is much lower. You also have to factor in the unreliable charging infrastructure and the range anxiety that entails, the lack of chargers compared to petrol pumps and the possible half hour wait before you can even start to charge. I watched "What Car" yesterday driving a Tesla, a Peugeot 2008 BEV and a Kia Sportage mild hybrid from London to La Rochelle. A round trip of 1075 miles. The Tesla had 8 charge stops, the Peugeot 10 charge stops and the Kia 2 fuel stops. 10 charge stops totally 4 hours 50 minutes to cover 1075 miles is totally and utterly unacceptable. Sorry.
If one drives the amount of miles every day I agree but few ever drive that long. I have driven through Europe several years with my Tesla's without any issues and always arrive more rested and fresh than when I hammered with gas cars.
As an EV owner myself (Tesla standard range) and fairly new to the game, I unfortunately have to agree with you. I attended a funeral in North London and drove from Manchester, I needed to charge on route for 8 mins, so that’s ok but because of the sleet & cold and not remembering to warm my car/battery before leaving as well as a delay if 1hr due to heavy traffic I had to have 2 charging stops. In my previous 3lt v6 diesel SUV I would drive the 200 mile trip in one go and a 5 mins top up in the way home. What’s needed a EVs with longer range, however they beyond my price range.
@@mrpauly01 Why would a delay of 1 hr of traffic mean another charging stop? Maybe you had to stay at the 1 charging stop for an extra minute from 8 to 9 minutes. With an ICE you don't even have the option of warming your car first. You would spend 5 minutes de-icing your windshield and running the car on your driveway to warm it up. Swings and roundabouts really.
@ the extra house meant diverting so extra miles and my son likes a warm cabin and with wipers going heated seats on the more juice was needed this the extra stop needed. I was agreeing with you and giving an example of why EVs can be problematic on longer journeys..
A further thought or two. I'd thought miving to an EV would be financially advantageous. I fear I may be wrong. Heafty insurance, "luxury" car tax, RFL from next year and screwed using public chargers.
And you're surprised by that? When/if there is well over 70% adoption of EV's just watch the screw get turned even more! Why do you think fossil fuel companies have their feet in the same pool? Because they smell bigger profits in the following years if adoption happens!
I guess paying motorway service prices for electricity is one of the downsides to owning an EV at nearly twice the price of petrol, but most travel will be from a cheap charge at home. Just need more of these chargers everywhere so you're not searching around for one!
The incentives for EVs are all wrong. I'm going to be getting a company EV, and I'm happy because I'll be paying £30 a month in BIK tax for it. But you could argue that with my travel area including London,Swansea, Liverpool, Trafford Park, Teesside and Scotland I should have a diesel. Meanwhile my wife drives her privately owned petrol car round town!
I would prefer to argue you just need a long range EV. Regarding a second car for personal use as EVs on lease come into the second hand market the prices and availability are already becoming more available
@@Harrythehun Would it be possible to cause the charger to lock and not release the cable once plugged in? That way you could be notified where your car was and get it back?
If someone steals your car you would know where it is. Most new cars (not just EVs) know where they are. I have a phone app which tells me exactly where my car is.
Dave, good video but why should we be forced into paying a monthly subscription. If your local charge local is out of action they should give you a refund, but they don't. We're being ripped off again.
I reckon 76kw chargers are really useful and underrated. An hour for a coffee and bathroom break gives loads of range and most batteries are not bigger or much bigger anyway.
They are. The 23/11/23 EV charging law requires all CPOs to advertise clearly the price per kWh. I have noticed a big change here, but only a few, like EV on the Move go much further and stick up huge tall illuminated signs on motorways
going to germany in Jan in my EV and will be signing up to Ionity, no brainer as unlike Tesla no peak charging time and will be doing a lot a of driving at peak hours. To note just how much cheaper Europe is ...
Fastned roof is brilliant only other roof (well awning) I have seen is MFG. Why oh why. EVERY petrol station has a roof. Bonkers. Thanks for doing all the hard work collecting stats. Why do you not mention Electroverse, no subscription needed. Stopped at Tebay north in the summer. Chucking it down. No flipping roof. Grrrr.
I absolutely agree about canopies and don't understand why the majority of charging stations don't have them. (As you say all petrol stations do), amazingly, a new Fastned station is under construction near me and the striking canopy is already in place.😊
Surely you do understand why petrol stations have them and EV chargers generally don't? Petrol car drivers have to stand outside in the wind, cold and rain for several minutes while filling up their tank. We EV owners literally just nip out, plug in and head straight back into the car to watch Netflix or TH-cam or go and sit in the warmth and dry in the facilities for a coffee and doughnut.
I had my ev for four weeks now and not had to use a public charger yet . I managed to charge at home and at work and my cost for this year has been £13.78 and I have done 880 miles . In work when they first got ev chargers in we had a email saying they were free to use by any employee who had a ev knowing nobody except maybe company cars . One guy who left had a hybrid was allowed to use it although I asked and was told I see.....yes been told by a higher manager they are a tax perk mainly for company cars and just use them , the manager who said we see charges his wife's car on it , so not being gready when am on my late shift ever other week I have a full charge and this will keep my costs down although if I took the amount of kW I charged on my Renault app and I can charge at home for 7p its just over 2p per mile even with that cold snap . So if I have to charge at a public charger a few times a year the savings I make through out the year will out weigh the cost . If people have only the choice to use public chargers and the government want people to use ev then in my opinion the government need to do something, once again grate video dave
With the Northvolt bankruptcy, I think investors will pull out of the EV industry. There are no EV battery manufacturers in the EU now, and even Northvolt (with all its funding) was struggling, with outdated machines and 30% reject rate. The Gulf States have now threatened to crash global oil prices by flooding the market, this is clearly a warning shot towards EV ownership. If oil falls to 70p a litre, and they sustain production levels for a prolonged period, say six months, it would kill the EV market globally. There is too much easy money in oil. I dont see the EV craze lasting.
My friend has an electric Vivaro. I was shocked when I went with him for a weekend away. The hole charging network is just a Wild West. You need multiple subscriptions to be able to use chargers or you’re very limited if you’re with a single supplier. Then the price per KW EV owners are being charge are a ripoff. You’re paying around 70p per KW where that same electricity you’re paying for to light your home is a third the price. Why? We worked out that he is paying over twice what he’d pay if he still had his diesel Vitara. It seems to me and I can believe I’m saying this, but the sector needs Government regulation. Why should EV owners be paying triple the price for the same electricity we all use everyday? Don’t get me started on the poor upkeep of chargers - on that same trip we came across multiple chargers that were out of order. The hole thing is a mess. Batteries for cars are a stoopid idea.
@@Harrythehunthis "SERVICE" is why van manufacturers are "selling" RRP vans of £47k for £17k and still not selling them. EV vans are totally un-viable due to low range.
Part of the problem is VAT. At home you pay 5%. On public chargers you pay 20%. They also have to recover their investments. For the same reason that I can change a tap washer for the cost of the washer and my friendly plumber will charge me upwards of £40 just to turn up at my front door. I'm not complaining because I understand overheads and investment.
Charging stations without PV solar canopies makes no sense. Solar panels are cheap as chips and keeps the sun/rain off you and saves charge supplier money surely ? Mr EV just did an interview with Sainbury's guy. 500 locations coming up. Kempower chargers.
Did it not occur to you that ICE drivers stand around in the wet, wind and the cold holding a cold nozzle while their tank fills up. EV drivers take 5 seconds to plug in then sit in the warmth and comfort to watch Netflix or TH-cam or head into the Costa for a coffee and sticky bun. We’re not stupid we don’t ever need to stand around. It’s hilarious as we drive past petrol stations, that we will never use again, watching people shivering in the cold, which we will never do. No contest
What an absolute nightmare EV charging seems to me Dave... 1. You need to download a plethora of apps . 2. You seem to have to join their club giving them your credit card details before you can. 3. You can't just see what the price is as you drive down the road you have look at your apps to look at price/ location, and do more prior planning. 4. Why can't you use cash, its against any of people who don't or wo can't get a credit card who live on limited means. EV driving is to me is still biased towards those who able to.. 1. Buy a nice new EV , as 10 year old EV's like a leaf are less than useless with about 80 mile range left. An 10 year old Ka will still do 300 miles plus on a tank. 2,. Must be able to charge at home to be, cheaper than petrol to run. Do any viewers have an ev , and no home charging please let me know how you get along. 3. Have a decent income, it more or less disqualifies those on a limited budget who don't have a credit card, again are there any viewers out there who run an EV on a limited budget/no credit card?
Your right, speaking as an EV owner myself I would never consider it if I couldn’t charge at home. It’s just not worth the hassle. The cost of the car is another issue, unless you are prepared to go the new/leave route then your stuck. The days of the cheap £2000 corsa when you pass your test are rapidly going
You'll be waiting a long time for a reply to your questions. You're quite correct, the charging infrastructure in the UK is at best underadequate and at worst DIRE. Basically, what's happened is that the governments around Europe have guilt tripped the affluent into this green agenda. Then the charge networks have gone in for the kill with hyper rip-off prices, making an EV an impossible option unless you can charge at home and never do more than 200 miles round trip.
If you don't want one then don't get one. Can't get a new ICE in the future or find a suitable used ICE further on in the future than that, when you still want one? "Am I bovvered".
@@paulbuckingham15 It's all about choice, we should not be legislated to what we can or can't drive in the future for some dubious climate change idolatry. While our factories close, and China, India zoom ahead producing your EVs with a good proportion of fossil fuels. What future will this densely populated country have without any energy intensive industries. Rachael from accounts appears to be taking us down this avenue.
I put my freedom of choice for cleaner air above anyone else's freedom of choice for what to them is motoring convenience. The powers that be are backing my choice.
I went true the Numbers I ve done my own Calculations Although Dave is Correct when it says 0.79kwh equates to a 30mpg car the only way to arrive at this Conclusion is Assuming the EV uses 4 miles per Kwh , I ve seen a Audi Q4 Dashboard in the Cold and Clearly states 1.8 Miles per KW which it would make it far Worse than a 12 Mpg car 😳😱😢 EV Winter Costs is a Subject which is being Ignored and not Factored although I m in no Doubt Audi Q4 With the Heater Off and a Warmer Climate & Less Wind would do Way Better in regards to efficiency
It's been negative temperatures here for the last week just gone single digit positive (6C). My EV is averaging 3.1 miles/kWh in November. I have seen less than three for a hilly two mile trip from cold. I am actually impressed at the real world performances in the cold using AC, heated steering wheel and seats is much better than I feared it would be. 0.79kWh may be possible in the Alps but I have never gone below 2.7.
Sadly, very true for the Audi, especially as you deliberately took that reading in the freezing cold. Wonder why? I am talking about proper EVs. On my 8 year old Tesla Model S, a much bigger EV and really ancient in tech terms, I set the trip meter to zero on the day I got it and it records an absolutely consistent 3 miles per kWh. That includes winter, summer and all other seasons, plus motorway and country roads, etc. plus I can also easily get 4 miles per kWh if I slow down just slightly and the very best I got was 9 miles per kWh, which I filmed and photographed, so I have a permanent record. Later Teslas achieve considerably more than mine. Nobody ever buys an Audi for efficiency. Surely you knew that?
If I was driving a EV I would expect to be able to arrive at any service station to charge my car I would expect them to be working and accept debit card I also haven’t got a drive so I certainly wouldn’t buy a EV my car full tank diesel got me 837 miles In mint condition Peugeot 308 and that was driving motorways night driving lights on heating on music you give me a EV that can do half that under the same conditions for say £5.000.00
No, people just don't want to buy ford EVs. Do you recall all of the British car manufacturers which have gone to the wall in the past? Nobody said that ice cars were finished. Those manufacturers were just inefficient and built cars which nobody wanted.
So Dave, at BEST with my two 50 and 55mpg diesels, if I could only public charge, at BEST I'd break even in terms of fuel costs? That assumes where I live I can find these more 'affordable' chargers? I think as sonebody whom I consider to be a well meaning EVangalist, you are starting to see the light. For those many, many millions of ICE motorists, who CAN'T take advantage of the two tier cheaper and more convenient home changing, it's simply not worth it. The home owning EV wanting demographic barrel is not quite empty, but once it is, you csn see why manufacturers are struggling... I wish I could share a screen shot of zapmap where I live in Immingham - DN402HF. It's a desert of slow, expensive and broken chargers, and this isnt unique to where I live. Remember,the vast majority of both 'fast' (50kwh+) and working chargers are in and around London. Can't home charge, stick to ICE. It's a simple calculation and conclusion anybody with half a finance braincell should come to. I think EV's are for the record a wonderful technological achievement. But if and until they can get parity with ICE fueling, so that per kwh it's fair, reliable and convenient, adoption will stagger and stutter. Never mibd that Idiot Trump and Anti-green Elon lol
Please lead by example and find a little energy to slow and reverse that waste line :) Only mention it as you mention it yourself... would make your videos look much better, and you'd present much better ? thanks for not being offended. Intermittent fasting and pushups/pull ups worked for me, but I'm only 50... but worth doing, just like making the switch to ev's etc.
I work in the logistics industry. No hope of long distance in a truck. We had one and it was used for advertising. It only achieved 80miles on a full charge and took 12hrs to charge.
This is irrelevant because the first powered flight was 120 feet. Imagine if the Wright brothers has taken a similar attitude and said this is useless let’s pack it in.
@@davetakesiton Jeez, irrelevant! Someone had to pay £000's for that truck and all you can say is irrelevant! Shouldn't be on sale with only 80 miles range, is more like it. If it were loaned to them for a small sum to test out, maybe yes!
@davetakesiton true story. This is still active being used in the current day but the past. How many real world tesla trucks are on the road? Cost prohibited??? The one bespoke one that Is in use cost £250k and only carried 12 pallets at 12 tonnes total weight. I know this as I was the person that had the vehicle sent to me and I had to set it all up. So my info is based on real life on the road use and not Ai generated rubbished regurgitated from some out of date website. Just saying
Great work Dave. I like that you act like a campaigner, a motorist and a business and motorcade person all in one. Away from home in unfamiliar territory. Went to big Tesco in Yarmouth. First charger not working. Phoned provider who were responsive and helpful. Had the pod point app from previous week. Saw a second charger at 22Kw but not working. Went to third, at same site and at 7kw the equipment lit like it was charging and after 15 mins no charge showing on my dash. Had to give up. Next day went to new services 4 miles from Yarmouth at Bradwell on a new housing estate. So new, that the road names weren't in place and Sat Nav couldn't help. 8 chargers unused. Fast charging a mile from the hospital. On 250 miles return, another new facility at Bicker in Lincolnshire. Rapid charging and only saw one other electric car on my short top up visit. This morning free Electricity from Octopus on home charger for two hours from 7am to 9am. It's a mixed experience, but the new sites will lead the change.
Well done Dave, this is your most informative video yet. ❤
Hi Dave, good to see you keeping up the anti-FUD. I don't like the loud music on the intro, personal I guess. Just Get A Tesla did the same. We could do with a definitive list of all chargers with any links to fossil fuel industry. I will avoid all of these, BP, Shell, Apple green etc. For me somewhat personal, I was diagnosed stage 4 terminal lung cancer in 2020. Never smoked or worked in industry, fossil fuel pollution has definate links. Best wishes
My sister died of throat cancer, never smoked a day in her life or worked in industry, you really need to think about a class action against government for allowing these oil giants to kill us. It can be your legacy ?
INSTAVOLT are currently charging a very decent 54p kWh between 10pm & 6am if you use their app.
IONITY is now only 37p/kWh with the top passport
Thank you for sharing videos of our crews on site. All the best
Workers need recognition for the work they do, you're welcome
Thanks Dave. Good to know what’s going on.
Excellent video Dave.Thank you 👍👍
Very thoughtful and thorough, but most people will not watch it through.
Charging prices in the UK are scandalous.
Have done twice Europe tour in a q4 etron40 each around 5 thousand K. Most expensive prices were in UK, then Italy.
Not a nice feeling honestly. It looks like policy makers put on the brakes to adopt EV’s in the UK
Best upgrade for my tsecond rip was the TESLA charging possibility- really good option…price wise as well.
Hi Dave, thanks for the great update on the current state of public charging. I do 80-90% of my charging at home, however I drive from Wirral to Hemel Hempstead about once a month, so I do need to use motorway chargers. I was very impressed with Gridserve in the summer when I drove to Brighton and back I got 3 very rapid charges (about 20 minutes to get up to 80%), I loved their Gatwick EV forecourt and they had 20% off. Since then my experience with them has been more mixed. I used their Rugby services chargers in September (I hadn’t planned to but my son wanted the toilet) I had to queue up because 4 chargers were out of order and the offer was down to 10%. I used the Toddington South Gridserve chargers in October, which were in a very awkward position. Still very fast though. Sorry to be pedantic by the way, but you got your airplane pioneers mixed up. The Wright brothers did the first powered flights in 1903. Alcock and Brown were the first to fly over the Atlantic in 1919 🙂.
@@hishamg don't rely on Gridserve Leicester Forest East Northbound. Their two chargers have been out of order for 2 years due to "power limitations". You couldn't make it up.
Hi Dave I live in Colne Lancashire at the end of the M65 , I have been told that there is going to be a charge point with about six charges which should open soon . Just thought you would be interested if you didn’t know.
Great update of the chargers and it gives great information on how charging costs can be reduced. Also nice to know which ones to avoid. Thank you!
Some MER 50kw chargers are 53p and 47p with Octopus Electroverse
Just a few points. Having been on 3 road trips to France with my BZ4X, their EV infrastructure is miles ahead of ours and Ev charting is on the whole a third cheaper than here. Point 2, Gloucester services has Westmoreland chargers at 64p but also a bank of Tesla superchargers which at my last visit few days ago were not in service. I guess these will be 56p so a bit of a competitor for Westmoreland. Could explain why not working. Point 3, Frankley services Birmingham M6 has Tesla superchargers Southbound (56p) but only Gridserve northbound (79p) and you can't get across motorway!? point 4, Octopus my electricity supplier charge me 6.7p kilowatt overnight. so the comparison to miles per galloln go esout the window if you mainly charge at home i.e for £4.50 I can go 250 miles!
@@arthurshenton9984 6.7p … I need to speak with Octopus as they charge me 7.5p 😉
Good point not the Dave's comparison is not quite right based on your data a 2.0 Audi A4 that does 38mpg 250 miles would cost £39.57 based on £6 per gallon . So you cost at home is brilliant but anything over 59p per kWh 67kw is going to cost more than £39 for 250miles . So outside charging can cost more than petrol at thank goodness 79p per kWh is not common
Minor point; I think Frankley Services are on the M5, not M6.
@@richardatkins3595 quite right. M5 junction 3
Hi Dave could you please share your maths when calculating mpg from kwh?
Great video as ever, I did see the new chargers at Gloucester south services last week, a bit out of the way & could do with more lighting at night (It was about 5.30) They do need to put in charging for none EV parking there, I followed an old transit around the carpark that I thought was leaving, they drove around a near empty carpark to park in the EV bays. Seems to becoming more common by the day.
Any chance of also including Hybrids in your discussions. I have only charged at home at 12p per kwh and get 50 MPG when running on petrol. I can only charge at 7 kwh max, so all the chargers you are talking about are probably no use to me?
Hybrids don't count.
When I had a PHEV I did use the Be.EV app. I think the new Golf GTE can use the CCS chargers he mentioned
No, I will never include hybrids. You cannot externally charge a hybrid. All the public rapid and ultra-rapid chargers I talk about are CCS2 and you cannot even use them on a PHEV at all. All home chargers are type 2 and are designed to be used on a PHEV and I have made several videos on PHEVs, and all figures I quote are photographed or filmed, so these were the actual figures the car reported.
@@davetakesiton I think new Golf 8.5 PHEV has got CCS & maybe other VAG models
@@davetakesiton sorry should have been more clear I have a C5-AIRCROSS PHEV, so can charge IT externally with a type 2, 7kw charger. I haven't charged at a public type 2 charger as I thought, once the battery was flat, it would be cheaper to run it on petrol (approx 45mpg) given the cost of public chargers. With a 13.5kwh battery I get about 30 miles on electric mode.
Good update thank you. I detest Apple green. I have 2 EVs and of the dozen or so times I have tried to use AG chargers it has worked only once, and then for 3 mins. Try their (un) help line - response is basically "can't connect, what a shame. Bye"
Faster charging isn't necessarily better. When driving an ICE on a long trip I would normally stop about every 2 to 3 hours. The stop would normally last between 15 and 30 mins, with 20 to 25 mins being most common. If I can charge in 20 to 25 mins enough to take me on the next leg of the trip, charging in less than 15 mins doesn't really help me, in fact it's an annoyance as I'd have to interrupt my meal or coffee or whatever to move my car to avoid idle charges. If the car could charge in 3 mins that would be a bit like stopping for petrol, but between 5 and 15 mins it would be a pain, long enough to be a drag but to short for me to enjoy a proper break.
Just watched YT video from another contributor showing how charging his EV was a pain in the arse. As an EV driver myself I can relate to that. I’ve charged my EV hundreds of times in the last three years. Between failed startup, charging stopping after 5 minutes( usually just as you order a coffee), difference between what the EVSE says it has discharged and how much the car say it received or simply just out of order is a right total pain in the posterior.
Great video Dave thank you
Your best ever, Dave.
With westmoreland owning Rheged I wonder if they could kick out GRIDSERVE there as well as that has 2 of the old 50kw units. I don’t go there any more now that Tebay has 6 dual bay high power swarco unit at 64p rate. Would you be able to ask on our behalf ?
Used to be our stop on the way north too but so many options now. Did Gridserve ever get that double headed charger actually giving 2 sessions and that would have made 3 actual ports.
@ Hi. At Reghed There are 3 ccs ports and 1 chademo port but they are alas slow at 50kwh.
I used only Tesla open to all chargers with membership on a road trip this weekend. As low as 37p per kWh. Frankley to Amesbury was a slog in the wind & rain but Banbury to Trentham Gardens was much easier. The latter has a choice between V3 & V4 chargers I couldn’t get the first V4 I tried to work but had no trouble with the rest. One charging space was blocked because a Hyundai driver had taken the wrong cable. They only took £20 pre authorisation which was corrected immediately too. The car park spaces at Banbury were nice and wide.
Great info. Thanks
The new V4 cabinets can supply up to 8 charging stations. I suspect this is about saving Tesla money by reducing the number of cabinets rather making all V4 chargers much faster charging.
not really. The V3 cabinets push about 370kW for 4 stalls. So about 740kW for 8 stalls. These new ones likely will do 1200kW (1.2MW) for 8 stalls, so there will be more power available.
would only use instavolt on the cheaper discounted tariff which kicks in after 10pm and last to 6am. 54p compared to 85p
Strange that the offer has disappeared from their website and their app.
@davetakesiton Really hadn't noticed that on the app. if you do a search for instavolt off peak it will find a page from the 22nd of August in the instavolt newsroom.
@@davetakesiton that is strange, maybe they have removed that offer because no one made use of it, will check the app tonight to see if the pricing changes
Thank you for your rundown on "public" charging costs. I have been pondering if/when to join the EV brigade.
I have solar and a small battery so could charge at home.
The only semi sensible option seems to be buying/leasing a Tesla. Sadly my nearest supercharger is eighteen miles away.
I presume the charger owners need a RSI to satisfy their bean counters. If domestic rates around 24p per kWh are what Ionity et Al are paying that's some mark up at the chargers even with 20% vat!
You may have gathered I'm still undecided. My old ICE motor will manage 300 plus miles on £40!
You caught me on camera at Killington Lake ! Just for a few seconds….😂
Almost your "minute of fame", right there!
why are there no ev charging stalls at ankerside shopping centre in tamworth
Hi dave, I'm in the market to get my first EV, I'm thinking a used tesla, some are now on offer for around 15000 pounds, not bad for a 60000 pound car that's only 2 years old, and 20000 miles on the clock, but I will not be able to charge at home, I live in a 7th floor flat, with under ground parking, EVs are not allowed to park in it, so to prepare for my next car, I've had a 3 gallon tank fitted to my diesel car, and 300 kgs of ballast in the boot to replicate the tyre wear ect, I've been getting around 180 miles of range and I only fill the tank to 80 percent and I use motorway services for the extra expense, I'm so looking forward to be able to go 0bto 60 in 2 seconds I can't wait thanks.
You’re not ready for an EV, your learning curve will be too severe. Eg Tesla’s have LFP batteries and the manual tells you to always charge to 100%. Without basic knowledge like that, that millions of non EV drivers already know, please stick with your diesel, you know a little bit more about that but obviously not enough if you fill up the tank at a motorway services. Even EV drivers know you don’t do that.
😂 I'd steer clear of EVs if I were you. These modern horseless carriages might be a bit complicated for you.
Lol, I got it, pity the EV people didn't! Looks like owning an EV removes the sense of humour!
Thank you. Not too sure about some of your figures. And you are forgetting about deprecation on a lease based on 15k per annum model 3 4247 down 707 per month ice Audi A4 Avant 2610 down 435 a month both new , not sure how the ev will cost less for a private buyer and of course the ice contributes 24.5 billion in fuel duty to the economy .
Not part of the calculations for ice cars mpg either 😂
@@ziggarillo That don't depreciate anywhere near like an EV!
Wow, I bet that took you some time to research. But no, depreciation is totally irrelevant once you lease an EV. You pay the instalments and hand it back.
@@davetakesiton thanks for reply true you do hand it back but the depreciation is factored into the lease thats why ev lease is more than petrol equiv its all on lease loco .i will get an ev soon its just as a private buyer its the overall cost and i now learn about the confusion of outside charging so many apps etc that puts me off. I hate the app is cheaper than swipe why petrol ststions dont have any of this nonsense
Tesla must've got another waiver because they've already announced that their existing open to all chargers will remain open to all.
Be-EV have some 50kW chargers for e taxis only - I’ve never seen one being used. I once a taxi parked next to one but it wasn’t plugged in and was blocking a 22kW AC charger
Awesome!
Why are gridserve hubs mainly in the south and Fastned are very rare.
Love your videos. I have an IONIQ6. Best car I have ever driven and its so quiet and restful during long drives. I live in Scotland and travel down to the midlands most weeks and occasionally to London. I have a passport for IONITY and find there charging locations perfect for my needs and at 43p probably one of the cheapest after Tesla. I have not really had any issue of waiting to charge and if I have its usually Leeds. They have 6 chargers there and I spoke to someone connected with Ionity and they are going to increase that to 24 ... they are waiting on planning permission. The same person said they have 30 new sites in the UK in various stages of installation. Thought Id let you know. keep the EV flag flying
Hi Dave, I have some ev safety info I would like you to pass on to your viewers. My son checks accident damaged cars for insurance companies, he knows I am getting an ev soon, so gave me this info. It appears they are getting damage reports of ev's with damage caused by the ev's just taking off on thier own and crashing In too whatever's in front of them. However it appears the problem is that because ev's are silent when stopped but are still in drive drivers are inadvertently placing their foot on the accelerator with serious consequences. This happens quite often when the care is in drive and the driver reaches over to the back seat. Maybe you could do a video on safety tips for ev drivers. Many thanks for your great video's to date . CHEERS CLIFF.
I'm not Dave but the answer is simple, concentrate on the act of driving, put the car in park... That sort of thing.
Yes, if you drive them in the same way you'd drive an ice car with an auto transmission, no problem.
In fact, some EVs would jam the brakes on themselves in such circumstances.
Nice of you to update the gen public about public charging whats your assumption of miles per kwh Dave? as efficiency varies greatly across the EV spectrum. I assume 4mi kwh if i chose an Up or Ioniq.
Did you see the latest What car trip to France in a Hybrid & a Peugeot plus Tesla EV? It seemed a bitbof a bind for the Peugeot driver in particular.
Yes I watched it. The problem is EVs constantly evolve. Different battery cells, battery chemistry, BMS, efficiency, weight, aerodynamics, heatpumps. Then we have different temperatures, weather, speeds, driving styles, topography, etc. My car is a very consistent 3 miles per kWh over the entire last 5 years, winter and summer, but I can very easily get 4 m/kWH if I slow down and it’s summer. This video even at 2.6m/kWh found the Tesla the cheapest of the three and they did say that this was all on superchargers. In this case if the first and last charges had been at home as most of us do, it would be no competition. That would also have reduced the price for the Peugeot dramatically as they stated that they used 85p chargers. Far too many variables for absolute definitive answers. This video showed both EVs were cheaper than ICE but took longer to charge. I’ll take that
@@davetakesiton Not a problem in an Ice car.
I am all for the extra options, but I am not bothered about increasing charging speeds, I have found 100 kWh is almost too fast because I only use ultra rapid if I am doing a long 300+ mile journey and I will always be stopping for food and comfort. I find that I am having to go out and move the car as it finishes to quickly. You can limit the speed using the car app, so I am happier to have under 100 kWh charging when I need to stop!
For you that's great, but others can charge well up over 200kW and many need to get back on the road as quickly as possible.
@@davetakesiton Of course there will be some, especially people who drive for a living (taxis, deliveries, etc.). What I did last time is I found some 50kWh chargers in the same service station and left the quicker ones for others to use.
When will the chargers have a cash slot?
I’d wager that will never happen
About the same time they fit them to petrol pumps at a guess?
Probably when your electric and gas meters have cash slots.
It's not rocket science.
If the governments of Europe want a mass take up of electric vehicles there needs to be massive incentives.
EV's half the price of ICE vehicles.
Charging half the price of petrol/diesel.
No road tax or congestion charges.
But what we have is EV's 20-40% higher than the ICE equivalent.
Depreciation 30-50% more than the ICE equivalent.
Charger rates up to twice the price of petrol/diesel.
Taxed from 2025 and ULEZ charges.
Rumours are that Gridserve even at 79p per kWh is losing money and are in trouble.
VW, Ford, Polestar, Porsche are in dire trouble because of their massive investments in EV's and poor sales.
Vans and HGVs will never be viable in EV form in our lifetimes.
There is already talk that the EU is likely to push back their 2035 deadline and then probably scrap it altogether.
I'm not an EV hater (although I'm sure Dave thinks so) but I think 'in our lifetime' is a stretch.
Cakes and drinks while filming. Yes, that's never added to the avg charging price is it?
As ever with EV's, if you can home charger, do only up to 100 miles a day commuting and every 3-4 years you used to renew a car lease or regularly update your vehicle for a new car (im taking 30-45k) then get an EV, it will likely save you some money, if you ignore depreciation.
Outside of that, if you are running a decent 45-55mpg ICE and can't home charge, don't get an EV.
Glad the penny seems to be dropping with Dave.
Summary, if you can't home charge, don't get an EV!!
It’s already very well incentivised for tesla. No road tax, well £10, no service, 31p per KWHr and depreciation is no where near what you are quoting. since the price adjustment in Q1 over 3 years it’s within 5% of the equivalent ICE, data from autotrader
I suppose it depends how old each of us are 😉.
I really don't think HGVs will be fully electric in the next 20-30 years.
The class 1's available now have a range of around 100 miles fully loaded.
The charging infrastructure is non existent in the UK for HGVs.
It would mean dropping the trailer and then trying to drive an eight ton unit into a car charging bay.
I do 300-450 miles a day in my S650 Scania and I've never ever seen charge points in the HGV parking areas at any service stations.
Agreed for the 60% of British households that don't have off street charging an EV make absolutely no sense, however our government is trying to force EV's on everyone with their ridiculous 2030 deadline.
2021 Model 3's Long range AWD 25,000 miles . Over 10 for sale on Cinch all under £25k. The sellers would have gotten around £20k. They were £55k+ new. That's a loss of over £10k per year per 7000 miles.
the conditions yoh describe re average daily commute, although daily commute cycle range is 300, and renewal cycle accounts for +80% of use cases
France. Here in France with a 5 euro per month membership of Mobilize we pay something like 25 centimes a Kw, (22p😂)
That is cheaper than my home electricity per kw but I do live in the UK where electricity is the most expensive in the world.
Oh lord, please take all these 'experts' and rehome them in France, then it will be a peaceful life here again lol!
@@stevecoinitin7521 Don’t really understand why the UK is still buying more than 1.5 billion of it from us here in France alone, then there’s others such as Norway/Denmark etc which they’re buying it from.
Tesla will still have the open to all V2 & V3 for another 12 months while they do upgrades so they got an extension. The UK & Northern Europe manager Oliver Dodd announced this on X/twitter.
Damn, was hoping that wouldn't be the case.
@@djtaylorutube So glad john spoilt your day.
@briankavanagh7191 He didn't
If you want to see AppleGreen in use head to Fleet on M3 or South Mimms on M25 where competitors are in somewhat short supply
Same on M11 Birchanger services, Tesla units there but only for Teslas
If any CPOs (barring Tesla) are reading the comments - stop charging more than 70p/KWh! Your maximum price needs to be 69p/KWh peak/anytime, suck up the "small loss for the shareholders/investors". You're not going to get sufficient customers to remain solvent if your pricing remains "stupid high", any EV owner with an ounce of sense will avoid CPOs that are perceived as "gouging" (and right now, that's the vast majority of you). Set your sights longer term, charge a bit less now to build up a customer base that prefers your offering and will stick by you in the future.
For something this detailed, you need a table to summarise your findings.
Dave, good video and a lot of data but the MPG comparisons you use doesn’t include EVs needing an extra 10% charge due to efficiency’s, battery composition etc and although charging from home is much much cheaper (7p per kilowatt you can not charge faster than 7.2kw so during off-peak periods (typically 23:30-05:30 would give 180 miles but real world is closer to 150 thus on a 200 mile trip you still need to use a public charger. Also one very important point about home charging is that invariably a cheaper night tariff will mean a higher day time electricity tariff (typically 10-15% more) thus negating over the course of a year much of benefits of charging overnight. Battery technology’s are changing eg solid state which are lighter and have longer range and and will be less expensive to manufacture (eventually) so until they are common place and EVs are on par or even cheaper than a EVs then I’m afraid you are not going to win many hearts and minds re EVs.
Actually you're wrong there.
I'm on Octopus flexible.
Day rate 29.4p
Night rate 13.2p.
Their Octopus Intelligent Go designed for compatible EV or charger for my area is
25.5p day rate.
7.2p night rate.
My British Gas tariff is about 1 pence more per kWh than their standard day tariff. The off peak is 7.9p per kWH. I use 2500 kwh off peak per annum and 5000 kWh peak. Plenty of savings there.
So petrol arrives into an ICE car without any losses, such as drilling, refining, transporting and then combusting?
Pence per mile is an easy metric. But many don’t know their own costs.
You're also wrong about the off-peak time. Octopus will extend that base period to give you as much charge as you need.
For example, if I need to put 70kWh into my battery by 06:30 am and I plug it in at 18:30 the previous evening, octopus will extend the off-peak window.
My battery is only 60kWh and I don't run my battery below 30%.
@ that’s news to me, I will call them. Thanks.
You are fighting a losing battle Dave.
You are arguing to try to make EV charging costs work out the same as mpg.
For private buyers to adopt EVs on mass the running costs would have to be half the cost of petrol and diesel cars.
Just matching the mpg costs isn't enough as the purchase cost is higher and the resale cost is much lower.
You also have to factor in the unreliable charging infrastructure and the range anxiety that entails, the lack of chargers compared to petrol pumps and the possible half hour wait before you can even start to charge.
I watched "What Car" yesterday driving a Tesla, a Peugeot 2008 BEV and a Kia Sportage mild hybrid from London to La Rochelle. A round trip of 1075 miles.
The Tesla had 8 charge stops, the Peugeot 10 charge stops and the Kia 2 fuel stops.
10 charge stops totally 4 hours 50 minutes to cover 1075 miles is totally and utterly unacceptable. Sorry.
That review was silly - no way you need to stop 10 times to do 1000 miles. I regularly do over 200 mile trips on a single home charge in my Model 3
If one drives the amount of miles every day I agree but few ever drive that long. I have driven through Europe several years with my Tesla's without any issues and always arrive more rested and fresh than when I hammered with gas cars.
As an EV owner myself (Tesla standard range) and fairly new to the game, I unfortunately have to agree with you. I attended a funeral in North London and drove from Manchester, I needed to charge on route for 8 mins, so that’s ok but because of the sleet & cold and not remembering to warm my car/battery before leaving as well as a delay if 1hr due to heavy traffic I had to have 2 charging stops. In my previous 3lt v6 diesel SUV I would drive the 200 mile trip in one go and a 5 mins top up in the way home. What’s needed a EVs with longer range, however they beyond my price range.
@@mrpauly01 Why would a delay of 1 hr of traffic mean another charging stop? Maybe you had to stay at the 1 charging stop for an extra minute from 8 to 9 minutes.
With an ICE you don't even have the option of warming your car first. You would spend 5 minutes de-icing your windshield and running the car on your driveway to warm it up.
Swings and roundabouts really.
@ the extra house meant diverting so extra miles and my son likes a warm cabin and with wipers going heated seats on the more juice was needed this the extra stop needed. I was agreeing with you and giving an example of why EVs can be problematic on longer journeys..
A further thought or two. I'd thought miving to an EV would be financially advantageous. I fear I may be wrong. Heafty insurance, "luxury" car tax, RFL from next year and screwed using public chargers.
And you're surprised by that? When/if there is well over 70% adoption of EV's just watch the screw get turned even more!
Why do you think fossil fuel companies have their feet in the same pool?
Because they smell bigger profits in the following years if adoption happens!
I guess paying motorway service prices for electricity is one of the downsides to owning an EV at nearly twice the price of petrol, but most travel will be from a cheap charge at home.
Just need more of these chargers everywhere so you're not searching around for one!
If you use one of the popular apps on your phone, it removes any need to search.
@ Zapmap is ok, but doesn’t show all the chargers. We just need chargers in shopping centres, pubs, hotels, etc
The incentives for EVs are all wrong. I'm going to be getting a company EV, and I'm happy because I'll be paying £30 a month in BIK tax for it. But you could argue that with my travel area including London,Swansea, Liverpool, Trafford Park, Teesside and Scotland I should have a diesel. Meanwhile my wife drives her privately owned petrol car round town!
I would prefer to argue you just need a long range EV. Regarding a second car for personal use as EVs on lease come into the second hand market the prices and availability are already becoming more available
y is the authorisation price so high on most chargers and gridserve is only £1 ? and ice cars u dont pay any authorisation when u pay
ICE pays no pre-auth on payment? They certainly do!
Yes you do if you pay by credit card!
Certainly do on pay at the pump lol
So if someone steals my car, they can charge it for free for months? How would I cancel it?
You would stop your credit card from working within the app.
@@Harrythehun Would it be possible to cause the charger to lock and not release the cable once plugged in? That way you could be notified where your car was and get it back?
@ no, but most electric cars can view were the car is in real time and control many settings, speed limits
If someone steals your car you would know where it is. Most new cars (not just EVs) know where they are. I have a phone app which tells me exactly where my car is.
Dave, good video but why should we be forced into paying a monthly subscription. If your local charge local is out of action they should give you a refund, but they don't. We're being ripped off again.
I reckon 76kw chargers are really useful and underrated. An hour for a coffee and bathroom break gives loads of range and most batteries are not bigger or much bigger anyway.
If you're in a hurry who has an hour to waste waiting to charge? Ridiculous.
@@54duffield54Then you pay more for the service of ultra fast charging.
@@54duffield54 which is exactly not what I said.
No you don't. You use diesel. It's that simple.
Why can't electric prices be advertised in the big signs in the same way petrols prices area?
They are. The 23/11/23 EV charging law requires all CPOs to advertise clearly the price per kWh. I have noticed a big change here, but only a few, like EV on the Move go much further and stick up huge tall illuminated signs on motorways
going to germany in Jan in my EV and will be signing up to Ionity, no brainer as unlike Tesla no peak charging time and will be doing a lot a of driving at peak hours. To note just how much cheaper Europe is ...
Fastned roof is brilliant only other roof (well awning) I have seen is MFG. Why oh why. EVERY petrol station has a roof. Bonkers.
Thanks for doing all the hard work collecting stats.
Why do you not mention Electroverse, no subscription needed.
Stopped at Tebay north in the summer. Chucking it down. No flipping roof. Grrrr.
I absolutely agree about canopies and don't understand why the majority of charging stations don't have them. (As you say all petrol stations do), amazingly, a new Fastned station is under construction near me and the striking canopy is already in place.😊
Surely you do understand why petrol stations have them and EV chargers generally don't? Petrol car drivers have to stand outside in the wind, cold and rain for several minutes while filling up their tank. We EV owners literally just nip out, plug in and head straight back into the car to watch Netflix or TH-cam or go and sit in the warmth and dry in the facilities for a coffee and doughnut.
I had my ev for four weeks now and not had to use a public charger yet . I managed to charge at home and at work and my cost for this year has been £13.78 and I have done 880 miles . In work when they first got ev chargers in we had a email saying they were free to use by any employee who had a ev knowing nobody except maybe company cars . One guy who left had a hybrid was allowed to use it although I asked and was told I see.....yes been told by a higher manager they are a tax perk mainly for company cars and just use them , the manager who said we see charges his wife's car on it , so not being gready when am on my late shift ever other week I have a full charge and this will keep my costs down although if I took the amount of kW I charged on my Renault app and I can charge at home for 7p its just over 2p per mile even with that cold snap . So if I have to charge at a public charger a few times a year the savings I make through out the year will out weigh the cost . If people have only the choice to use public chargers and the government want people to use ev then in my opinion the government need to do something, once again grate video dave
Spot on analysis, thanks for sharing
Sadly i still say EV charging has replaced the petrol prices and the UK has made a mess of it.
With the Northvolt bankruptcy, I think investors will pull out of the EV industry. There are no EV battery manufacturers in the EU now, and even Northvolt (with all its funding) was struggling, with outdated machines and 30% reject rate.
The Gulf States have now threatened to crash global oil prices by flooding the market, this is clearly a warning shot towards EV ownership. If oil falls to 70p a litre, and they sustain production levels for a prolonged period, say six months, it would kill the EV market globally.
There is too much easy money in oil. I dont see the EV craze lasting.
My friend has an electric Vivaro. I was shocked when I went with him for a weekend away. The hole charging network is just a Wild West. You need multiple subscriptions to be able to use chargers or you’re very limited if you’re with a single supplier.
Then the price per KW EV owners are being charge are a ripoff. You’re paying around 70p per KW where that same electricity you’re paying for to light your home is a third the price. Why?
We worked out that he is paying over twice what he’d pay if he still had his diesel Vitara.
It seems to me and I can believe I’m saying this, but the sector needs Government regulation. Why should EV owners be paying triple the price for the same electricity we all use everyday?
Don’t get me started on the poor upkeep of chargers - on that same trip we came across multiple chargers that were out of order. The hole thing is a mess. Batteries for cars are a stoopid idea.
The fast charging is a SERVICE. That's why it costs more than at home and despite the higher cost, all CPOs are unprofitable.
@@Harrythehunthis "SERVICE" is why van manufacturers are "selling" RRP vans of £47k for £17k and still not selling them. EV vans are totally un-viable due to low range.
Part of the problem is VAT. At home you pay 5%. On public chargers you pay 20%.
They also have to recover their investments.
For the same reason that I can change a tap washer for the cost of the washer and my friendly plumber will charge me upwards of £40 just to turn up at my front door.
I'm not complaining because I understand overheads and investment.
Charging stations without PV solar canopies makes no sense. Solar panels are cheap as chips and keeps the sun/rain off you and saves charge supplier money surely ?
Mr EV just did an interview with Sainbury's guy. 500 locations coming up. Kempower chargers.
Did it not occur to you that ICE drivers stand around in the wet, wind and the cold holding a cold nozzle while their tank fills up. EV drivers take 5 seconds to plug in then sit in the warmth and comfort to watch Netflix or TH-cam or head into the Costa for a coffee and sticky bun. We’re not stupid we don’t ever need to stand around. It’s hilarious as we drive past petrol stations, that we will never use again, watching people shivering in the cold, which we will never do. No contest
What an absolute nightmare EV charging seems to me Dave...
1. You need to download a plethora of apps .
2. You seem to have to join their club giving them your credit card details before you can.
3. You can't just see what the price is as you drive down the road you have look at your apps to look at price/ location, and do more prior planning.
4. Why can't you use cash, its against any of people who don't or wo can't get a credit card who live on limited means.
EV driving is to me is still biased towards those who able to..
1. Buy a nice new EV , as 10 year old EV's like a leaf are less than useless with about 80 mile range left. An 10 year old Ka will still do 300 miles plus on a tank.
2,. Must be able to charge at home to be, cheaper than petrol to run. Do any viewers have an ev , and no home charging please let me know how you get along.
3. Have a decent income, it more or less disqualifies those on a limited budget who don't have a credit card, again are there any viewers out there who run an EV on a limited budget/no credit card?
Your right, speaking as an EV owner myself I would never consider it if I couldn’t charge at home. It’s just not worth the hassle.
The cost of the car is another issue, unless you are prepared to go the new/leave route then your stuck. The days of the cheap £2000 corsa when you pass your test are rapidly going
You'll be waiting a long time for a reply to your questions.
You're quite correct, the charging infrastructure in the UK is at best underadequate and at worst DIRE.
Basically, what's happened is that the governments around Europe have guilt tripped the affluent into this green agenda.
Then the charge networks have gone in for the kill with hyper rip-off prices, making an EV an impossible option unless you can charge at home and never do more than 200 miles round trip.
If you don't want one then don't get one. Can't get a new ICE in the future or find a suitable used ICE further on in the future than that, when you still want one? "Am I bovvered".
@@paulbuckingham15 It's all about choice, we should not be legislated to what we can or can't drive in the future for some dubious climate change idolatry. While our factories close, and China, India zoom ahead producing your EVs with a good proportion of fossil fuels. What future will this densely populated country have without any energy intensive industries. Rachael from accounts appears to be taking us down this avenue.
I put my freedom of choice for cleaner air above anyone else's freedom of choice for what to them is motoring convenience. The powers that be are backing my choice.
Had to call at services to charger no space and 2 hour parking fine rubbish
I went true the Numbers I ve done my own Calculations Although Dave is Correct when it says 0.79kwh equates to a 30mpg car the only way to arrive at this Conclusion is Assuming the EV uses 4 miles per Kwh , I ve seen a Audi Q4 Dashboard in the Cold and Clearly states 1.8 Miles per KW which it would make it far Worse than a 12 Mpg car 😳😱😢
EV Winter Costs is a Subject which is being Ignored and not Factored although I m in no Doubt Audi Q4 With the Heater Off and a Warmer Climate & Less Wind would do Way Better in regards to efficiency
It's been negative temperatures here for the last week just gone single digit positive (6C). My EV is averaging 3.1 miles/kWh in November. I have seen less than three for a hilly two mile trip from cold. I am actually impressed at the real world performances in the cold using AC, heated steering wheel and seats is much better than I feared it would be. 0.79kWh may be possible in the Alps but I have never gone below 2.7.
Sadly, very true for the Audi, especially as you deliberately took that reading in the freezing cold. Wonder why? I am talking about proper EVs. On my 8 year old Tesla Model S, a much bigger EV and really ancient in tech terms, I set the trip meter to zero on the day I got it and it records an absolutely consistent 3 miles per kWh. That includes winter, summer and all other seasons, plus motorway and country roads, etc. plus I can also easily get 4 miles per kWh if I slow down just slightly and the very best I got was 9 miles per kWh, which I filmed and photographed, so I have a permanent record. Later Teslas achieve considerably more than mine. Nobody ever buys an Audi for efficiency. Surely you knew that?
@@davetakesiton perhaps the Germans don't know how to have efficient Heat Pumps 🤷
If I was driving a EV I would expect to be able to arrive at any service station to charge my car I would expect them to be working and accept debit card I also haven’t got a drive so I certainly wouldn’t buy a EV my car full tank diesel got me 837 miles In mint condition Peugeot 308 and that was driving motorways night driving lights on heating on music you give me a EV that can do half that under the same conditions for say £5.000.00
You will be riding the bus in the future.
I’m just taking the pis@
So many people are switching to EVs that demand is falling and factories are closing😂😂😂. Some people will never learn.
No, people just don't want to buy ford EVs. Do you recall all of the British car manufacturers which have gone to the wall in the past? Nobody said that ice cars were finished. Those manufacturers were just inefficient and built cars which nobody wanted.
@rugbygirlsdadg Sorry, but read about VW, Polestar and Porsche. VW and Polestar are on the verge of bankruptcy.
Literally nonsense 😂
as are Ford and Stellantis.
So Dave, at BEST with my two 50 and 55mpg diesels, if I could only public charge, at BEST I'd break even in terms of fuel costs?
That assumes where I live I can find these more 'affordable' chargers?
I think as sonebody whom I consider to be a well meaning EVangalist, you are starting to see the light.
For those many, many millions of ICE motorists, who CAN'T take advantage of the two tier cheaper and more convenient home changing, it's simply not worth it.
The home owning EV wanting demographic barrel is not quite empty, but once it is, you csn see why manufacturers are struggling...
I wish I could share a screen shot of zapmap where I live in Immingham - DN402HF.
It's a desert of slow, expensive and broken chargers, and this isnt unique to where I live.
Remember,the vast majority of both 'fast' (50kwh+) and working chargers are in and around London.
Can't home charge, stick to ICE. It's a simple calculation and conclusion anybody with half a finance braincell should come to.
I think EV's are for the record a wonderful technological achievement.
But if and until they can get parity with ICE fueling, so that per kwh it's fair, reliable and convenient, adoption will stagger and stutter.
Never mibd that Idiot Trump and Anti-green Elon lol
@@stuartburns8657 all correct apart from the Trump bit.
I think he will be great the second time round for the UK and the planet.
@54duffield54 Each to their own, but great for the planet?
Please 😅😂🤣
Please lead by example and find a little energy to slow and reverse that waste line :) Only mention it as you mention it yourself... would make your videos look much better, and you'd present much better ? thanks for not being offended. Intermittent fasting and pushups/pull ups worked for me, but I'm only 50... but worth doing, just like making the switch to ev's etc.
This is about EV charging not personal appearance or character assassination 😡🤬
Impressive and extensive?
I work in the logistics industry. No hope of long distance in a truck. We had one and it was used for advertising. It only achieved 80miles on a full charge and took 12hrs to charge.
This is irrelevant because the first powered flight was 120 feet. Imagine if the Wright brothers has taken a similar attitude and said this is useless let’s pack it in.
BTW the Tesla semi does 500 miles Ona full charge and charges 350 miles in 30 minutes. Looks like you are stuck in the past, hopelessly out of date.
@@davetakesiton Jeez, irrelevant! Someone had to pay £000's for that truck and all you can say is irrelevant!
Shouldn't be on sale with only 80 miles range, is more like it. If it were loaned to them for a small sum to test out, maybe yes!
@davetakesiton true story. This is still active being used in the current day but the past. How many real world tesla trucks are on the road? Cost prohibited??? The one bespoke one that Is in use cost £250k and only carried 12 pallets at 12 tonnes total weight. I know this as I was the person that had the vehicle sent to me and I had to set it all up. So my info is based on real life on the road use and not Ai generated rubbished regurgitated from some out of date website. Just saying