Super helpful video. I just ordered an SR800 with extension tube and improved chaff collector. Wasn't sure if i wanted to pull the trigger on temp probes etc. but I can now tell how helpful. those will be. Keep the content coming. I'll be tuning in to learn more about home roasting on the Fresh Roast.
Thanks for watching and subscribing Senior. Congratulations on the SR800. All of my videos include basic roasting concepts so be sure to glean some helpful tips with my videos using other types of roasters as well. When you get the roaster, i would focus on color, smell, bean movement and just learning how to control the roaster. The artisan stuff will be helpful later on.
I also really relate to your tasting notes. Sometimes when people start getting too involved with the flavor notes I start to loose them. Yours were spot on with the level of flavors I get from pourovers.
Tasting is something I am constantly learning how to express. The more foods we taste expands our palate library. I've never been a very adventurous foodie but i am trying to branch out with my food / taste experience. Thanks for sharing.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I feel like I’m the opposite. I’ve been pretty adventurous with my food and have enjoyed many foods from around the world for decades. However I usually get categories (such as medium sweet, nice acidity, high/low bitterness) rather than distinct flavors (raspberry, green apple, jasmine) in pourovers. I will admit I was able to discern some very distinct flavors when I spent a long weekend with a 98mm high clarity flat burr grinder and numerous quality beans used exclusively with espresso. People still give me a look if skepticism when I tell them the flavors were clear as day like I was biting into a kiwi.
Ahhh, gotcha. yes, grinding and brewing methods will really impact the clarity. Thanks again for the encouraging words and for watching....... Hmm, Kiwi. Sounds delicious.
Well I just got a SR540 for Christmas and I am thankful for your detailed explanation of the roasting process. So much to learn. I'll be subscribing and watching!
This is just a perfect video for me since I just got a Fresh Roast 800 with the extension tube. Thank you again. I hopet mine turns out just as good. 👍
The 800 with extension tube will roast differently, especially because you are roasting a larger volume of beans using ease the same base unit. Regardless, the concept is the same for most air roasters.
Love it! We could watch this all day is a fun process and can be done to your liking. You have a great knowledge of coffee and enjoy your thoughts! Subbed and keep it up!
i have logged nearly 300 roasts now on my SR800, with extension tube. what i usually do is begin with 9 fan speed and 1 power, than each 60seconds, either reduce fan speed or increase power (my first 2 adjustments are always to fan speed only, so my beans don't loft too much as they dry). my goal is 7.5 ounces of roasted beans, so that generally requires a charge weight from 8.7 to 8.8 ounces. by roast end, my fan is down to 5 and power has increased to 4. i rarely go beyond 1 1/2 minutes of development time, so my roast level is never greater than FC, and most of the time I'm happiest with C+, where the chaff in the crevices of the beans is still light colored.
Nice approach. What type of coffee are you roasting and are you using the FR to cool down or dumping the roast right after. What does that roast calculate for weight loss? Thanks for sharing, watching, and subscribing!
weight loss ranges from 12-16% depending on roast level. total roast times generally run 8:00 - 8:30. i don't cool in the FR, i dump into a fan powered cooling tray that was bundled with my FR. most of my greens are from higher altitudes. i buy from sweet marias with the majority of origens being guatemals and ethiopia, but i do experiment with 1# and 2# bags of many others as well. almost all are arabica, and none are decaf. i've been brewing with a technivorm moccamaster the past 6 weeks, and am quite happy with it. i use a ratio of 15 or 16 to one, water to beans. brew time for 1 liter is about 5 minutes.
Thank you. I am a weekend roaster. Actually about once a month weekend roaster. I use the SR 800. I don't have anything fancy hook up, just the machine exhaust temp, and that is probably all I will ever use for the roast. No artisan, no thermometers, just the basic and that is about all I can afford now. Probably about all I can understand right now too, not a tech guy with coffee. Love computers but the tech stuff tends to go over my head. That is one of the reasons I use the Fresh Roast. Would like to see more of just some plan Jane basic roasting like this so I can gain some experience. Really enjoy watching, comparing and learning. I have only been at it about 1 year now, but it is a fun hobby. I don't see much on you tube now after all the pandemic crisis has passed. Seems like folks are just not posting much or teaching much to the small home roaster. So, thanks for keeping it simple and for sharing. God Bless. OH, I do use the extension tube, it has made a huge difference in my roast. It kind of compensates for my lack of skill :).
Hello Popples, thanks for sharing. I understand why "plain jane" thing. Yea, Basic roasting concepts applied Manually. There is a lot to be said for that. Most people are just trying to follow a recipe OR someone's instructions without understanding how the heat applied over time impacts the flavor profile. I'll keep that in mind as I work through my topic list. I'm glad my videos are helpful. Thank you for watching.
@VirtualCoffeeLab Thanks for the roast. I'm excited to be trying this profile! Just bought an sr800 with artisan mods, im learning to roast and you are easily the TH-cam creator that I have learned the most from. You explain roasting very well and I enjoy watching your videos. Something I noticed in your videos is your rest time on light roasted coffee. Even one of your latest videos roasting light with the keleido. Really Light fruity type roasts require alot of rest time before brewing(2-3weeks+) to open up and really become more fruity and juicy. Some roasters that only roast ultarlight (Sey, Dak, September etc...) they specify to not even open the bags before 30-45 days after the roast and they really peak in flavour even later then that.
Thanks for sharing the rest time. I haven't revisited my rest times for light roasts in quite a while. I will have to experiment with that . The biggest challenge for me is waiting! I will experiment with the light roast rest time and see what happens. Thanks for sharing your comments. I'm glad my videos have been helpful!
Thanks Mike. I've tried this approach with very positive results. The thing I like most about the approach is that it makes the roast easier to manage . I don't have a thermometer yet, so I've been watching the temp from the machine. ( Mine is the SR800) I plan to get a probe to compare. For cooling, I've been using a collander with a hair dryer on the cool setting.
Bob, I'm glad you are experiencing positive results. consider going into the cool mode and then taking off the top. The cooling may be quicker than the colander. I have been doing that more recently and have been happy with the cool time. What do you think?
Thanks for posting this! I have been roasting medium-light coffee with FR540+ext tube for about three years now. I recently have been experimenting with the nordic roasts, aiming for about 12% weight loss. I have been attempting to dry the beans for 1/3 total roast time using settings 9-9 for 2:30 minutes, but now that I see you began your roast with heat level 4, I am going to jump into a new experiment!
Hi Samuel, thanks for watching. I am interested to hear your thoughts once you try this approach compared to what you have been doing. Please let me know. I would really appreciate that. I'm glad you found my video helpful.
Great video, thanks for posting. Have the same setup but a tiny fraction of your experience, so this gives me something to emulate and compare/contrast. Also nice to see the back and forth in the comments with others I've been watching on YT. Happy holidays.
Thanks for watching and your comments. I’m glad my video was helpful for you. The interaction between me and others on my channel is my favorite part. I learn a lot from the comments of others and it truly makes me a better roaster ;-) Thanks again for sharing. Happy roasting!
Thanks for including degC. For me (and perhaps others) it has been the practical link to useability which I feel I’ve missed on many great videos of yours I’ve watched. Tks
Excellent video, Mike! I really appreciate you showcasing how important the fan is to manipulating the heat in an air roaster. My roasts on the SR800 lately have been similarly focused largely on using fan to drive the heat and reserving the power setting as sort of a "nudge" one way or the other. My light roasts tend to look just like your curve here, so I was interested to hear what you thought about "nordic" style roasting. I had been under the impression what separated nordic style from what I just in general call a "hot and fast" style was that a nordic style roast had a fairly flat RoR. As in: after coming down from that initial drying phase peak, it plateaued and flattened during most of the roast, then returned to descending during the short development phase. I think I got that from Rao's book, but I'll have to double check 🤣 Either way, I haven't experimented much with that kind of curve, but your version is tried and true as one of our go-tos!
Thank you for the encouraging words David. There are a lot of ways to approach a really light roasted coffee. I visited Tim Wendleboe's cafe last September and bought 3 different coffees. I still have beans from 2 of the 3. Man were they good. One was a natural, which he isn't a huge fan of but he really nailed it. Anyway, The approach I have seen him do does have a shallow descending ROR around half way through the roast. I think he does this because he is roasting on a large probat and he has a lot of momentum in the bean mass. I'm guessing. His total roast time on one profile i saw was about 9 1/2 minutes i think. That was back in 2017. The graph showed an ROR that flew straight up then after 1 1/2 minutes into the roast began it's descending ROR until about 4 1/2 minutes. I am assuming he was close to dry at that point. Then his ror was really really shallow the rest of the roast. I even saw an upward trend in the ROR for a short bit. Anyway, that might be his way, and he is the King o Nordic style roasting. Having said that, everything else I have seen or heard focuses on short roast times and light color (low temperatures). He keeps his temps low because of that shallow ROR and as i mentioned, i suspect this is because of the amount of coffee he is roasting. With the fresh roast, we hae a small amount of coffee and it is a 100% convection system. This allows us to roast faster and more efficiently. So, the curve doesn't need to be as long as the 9 1/2 minute roast shown in his video. So, I guess I don't really know about a specific curve but the moisture loss, color, acidity and overall, the end result of the roast was similar to what I experienced with Tim Wendleboe's coffee I purchased in Oslo Norway. I think my development was still pretty good. 15% on the log BUT i cooled in the tube so 16.5% is a rough estimate. Regardless.... Ohhh what a beautiful thing. Nice cup. :-) I used the approach you are talking about with our PNG coffee from last year. Not quite as aggressive with the heat in the beginning BUT we did intentionally have a nice drop after dry end to get a longer Milliard and to keep the temperature down to give us a nice fat and juicy cup of PNG..... How about you? Do you use that curve (the drop with a shallow ROR) on any of your roasts? Here is the reference video i referenced from 2017 th-cam.com/video/BS0v3W-UYRY/w-d-xo.html
@@VirtualCoffeeLab my light focused roast curves look just like yours, that's why I was intrigued when you said nordic! I doubled checked, my touch point for the nordic curve was from Scott Rao's "Coffee Roasting - Best Practices". Rao - "Many roasters from Nordic countries prefer to roast batches lightly and quickly, with relatively high, flat RoRs that crash gently just before discharge of beans..." But let's be honest, I find myself disagreeing with Rao about as often as I agree with him 🤣 and you're right, I'd consider Tim the authority here! Again, for my part, whatever anyone wants to call it, I really like hot, fast and light roasts on very dense beans. I try to read the coffee and interpret the curve later and usually my curves look like yours in the video - after a peak around DE, a fairly regularly descending RoR. I haven't specifically tried targeting the curve Rao describes, but I may give it a shot one day and see what it's like!
Yea, I agree. I think in my video I said "some might call it Nordic-Style" and as you have pointed out the flattened ROR could be part of that approach. I really enjoy the medium-light to light roast levels as long as I can avoid the underdeveloped notes. Great conversation here David, thanks for sharing. I hope you have a great Christmas season with your family!
I'm new to coffee roasting and my FreshRoast 540 gets here today. This is exactly what I needed! Thank you. I'll be watching and learning from you from here on out!
Very nice video and clear and concise description of what and why you are doing. I roast 228g on a SR800 w/OEM ext tube and use a similar approach. Rarely change the heat/power setting and adjust temperature with changes to the fan only. I use a 200mm probe for bean temperature to get the probe closer to the bean mass. Once the beans start drying the 200mm probe is inside the circulating bean mass.
Thanks for watching Richard and…… thank you for sharing how you roast using the Fresh Roast. Are you using different profiles or sticking with the one you shared?
My profiles tend to be remarkably similar, most likely since I've decided to settle on roasting coffee from Uganda - Mountain Harvest Mbale both honey and washed. I also target the same drop temperature (420F). I've been roasting for two years now. After roasting sample packs from most of the coffee growing regions during my first year I have settled with what I enjoy and am sticking to it. I target a 3min dry phase and try to reach first crack at 6mins (~392F based on where my bean temperature probe placement) and extend the development phase until I hit my drop temperature target of 420F. Why Uganda you might ask - well, I have a personal connection with the country since visiting it in 2017 and have been financially supporting a school there that was established by one of my friends ever since.@@VirtualCoffeeLab
I've only had my 540 for a couple of days and done 2 roasts. I'm a fan of cold brew using light roast so I particularly appreciated this video. I'm going to try to accomplish this without the extension... Well, ahh, right now!
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I received a used Fresh Roast 500 as a gift a few years back and never seriously used it until recently when my partner gave me a box of green beans as a gift (I think she's trying to tell me something). So I just started using it a few months ago basically for the first time seriously. And now down the rabbit hole I go!
Thank you very much (Devin?). I really appreciate that recognition and appreciation. I really enjoy sharing my roasting journey with other home coffee roasters. What else are you looking forward to?
funny you should mention that. I already have that in the works. Batch size will influence the profile and I will be sure to include the fresh roast. THank you.
Enjoy the videos. New to this whole thing. I've been roasting for a few months in a pot over a gas cooker. Just bought an sr800 and am purchasing the items to hook up to artisan. Have a question about the probes. Obviously the shorter probe is for the bean temp but does it not need to extend down into the beans. Its hard to see it while its roasting on the video but it looks like it is above the beans. Thanks for any advice. Appreciate your channel.
Thanks for your comment Gary, I’m glad you’ve been enjoying my videos. Ok, so my bean temp probe…….. I’m not sure you can get an accurate bean temp on a fresh roast. This is because the hot air influences the probe. The reason I have my BT probe above the bean mass is: 1. The BT and ET would be too similar I’d the BT was in the bean mass 2. The hot air influences the BT reading and your not getting a true BT when in the bean mass 3. Placing above the bean mass makes my reading look similar to a drum roaster graph and the ET and BT to me are better representations of temps. 4. IKAWA and LINK both use a similar setup as I use. I actually got my idea from the IKAWA. It’s Not a perfect science, but I like it.
I love this! I've been roasting on a Poppery 2, modded with a heat cutoff switch. So I can sort of manage temp throughout the roast by flipping the switch off, say, every 10 seconds for 2 seconds, or whatever. No probes yet. I'm trying to learn to recognize dry end so I can know which parts of the roast to stretch out, but it's tough... I need to re-watch your video on that :-) I'm a little colorblind so I mostly go by smell. Thank you for the awesome videos!
Hi Dave, thanks so much for watching and for your comment. I'm glad you enjoy this content. I love to roast on the lighter side and the Fresh Roast can do a great job. Sounds like your Poppery 2 can get some nice results as well.... thats cool. Yea, color change can be tricky so smelling should help you get close. It doesn't have to be exact but the closer you get the better as far as repeatability goes.
A few months back I roasted some Kochere and it was wonderful. Notes of black cherry with lots of acidity in the best ways. Mike, as a side note, the next time you're in Charlevoix you won't find me. I got hired on as the roaster for Dead River Coffee in Marquette in the U.P.! I've been up here working for about a month now (I'll be making a video soon to update my channel) but it's been awesome. Working on two machines - 5kg and 10kg Ambex roasters.
Congrats on the roastmaster job David. That’s exciting! Those machines roast differently than the bullet. What have you learned about roasting on these larger gas powered roasters? Where are you guys sourcing your greens from? Are you still going to roast and sell your brand on the side?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Gas is a bit different! I've learned how much more volatile a smaller setup is. The 5kg, and certainly the 10, take much less careful observation at every phase in the roast, touch mistakes are at a larger scale too. We source currently from Royal and no, my branded coffee had to cease operations, but, my new employer purchased my Bullet so we can use it for sampling and they're allowing me to introduce a rotating selection of beans of my choosing to help transition my followers into the Dead River ecosystem more easily. It's the start of something really cool!
Hi Collin,. I don't have any experience with the SR800 BUT I imagine it would be for the same reason i use the extension tube which is more even roast and better bean movement. I think you will probably experience the same thing with the 800. You do your first roast and wished it was a more even roast. Also, there may be times you wish you had greater capacity with either of the roasters. The extension tube will do that for you. Thanks for watching and for being a subscriber. I hope my response was helpful.
Hi thanks for getting back to me so quickly! I’m using the phidget and 2 k type probes. The buttons on my screen don’t show the way yours do and my background is black.
Outstanding video! Been trying to find a method that’ll enable me to roast lighter. I roast using an identical setup and collect roast data through Artisan. The only differences are that I’ve got my longer probe sitting directly above the bean mass, reading the BT, and my shorter probe reading the exhaust temp. I’m very curious if setting my shorter probe to read the BT will result in a smoother curve. Do you think it would make much of a difference on which probe is used for BT & ET? Thank you for the awesome videos, I learn so much from them!
Hi David, thanks for watching and for subscribing. Probe placement is always a factor BUT i think part of the magic that happened in this roast was finding the right power setting to get me from Dry to end of roast and allow the natural curve to play out in the roast. I hope that makes sense. As far as why i put the probes where I did for my fresh roasts, watch this video th-cam.com/video/IJTkM4oZOI0/w-d-xo.html Thanks for your comment and encouraging words.
Man, this is super interesting -- on a recent roast, I never went above power 3 and ended at fan 5 / power 2, and my ET (probe same place as yours) still got to almost 500 degrees.
Hi Jake, that’s interesting. Are you roasting on the sr800 or 450 and were you using an extension tube? Also, just curious, what was your batch size and the type of coffee? Assuming it was a light roast but 500 sound pretty hot
@@VirtualCoffeeLab SR800 with OEM extension tube, 225g of Ethiopia Yrgacheffe (Halo Bariti), tracking with a 300mm probe poking just barely below the bottom of the roasting chamber
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Just roasted a batch, and it seems like my ET probe just reads a higher temp than yours, for whatever reason. I started F8P4 and dropped to F7P3 at about 2:20, where ET was reading 412 (BT 281). In retrospect, it seems like the whole roast slowed down as a result of dropping to P3. I hit dry end at about 3:38 but didn't get a solid rolling FC until 6:44 (ET 500, BT 389). I'll commit to just trying the whole-roast P4 next time just to see what happens.
Indeed, I have been using a similar technique. I get to my final fan and heat setting within a minute after hitting dry end. Then I leave it be and the ROR declines as you say, due to the closing of the gap between BT and ET (or Inlet Temp), which is the driving force that determines the ROR. I use Artisan Designer to help define the BT trajectory, get the measured BT close to the target in the background by one minute after DE. Then I let it ride. I may drop heat by one at 14% development as suggested by Rao in his book. FWIW, I did try your bean probe placement and I think it may be better than mine (I put it in the bean pile). I am going to do some more tests. Thanks for the videos ... getting a Kaleido M1 soon :)
John, excellent comments, very much appreciated. If I would have dropped my heat by 1 at the very end i might have avoided the flick at the end. I will keep that in mind for a future roast. The mindset of the gap between BT and ET is spot on and missed by most. I have tried to use the designer and find myself being more frustrated than anything else. Probably because of a lack of knowledge in using it. I use backgrounds on some roasts to help me stay on track BUT those are from previous roasts with no background. If you have any tips I am all ears. Thank you for sharing. I really like my bean probe placement. The BT location is based on the IKAWA placement. It is never in the bean mass. Kind of sounds twisted but it seems to work well. I'm not sure exactly why you are choosing the M1. For a little more money you get more capacity (if and when you need it) buying the M2. The M3 is happy to roast coffee at 250-400 mg all day long. I think it is rated for as low as 100 grams but I haven't done that yet. I don't have any experiences with the M1 but i have really enjoyed the M2. Congrats on the roaster.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Your probe placement is superior to placement in the bean mass (in my opinion) because I have found that the location will change the apparent measured BT. It gets higher as you get closer to the bottom of the chamber. So I can get FC on the same beans at 415 F (probe near bottom of vessel and well inside bean pile) or 385 F (probe dangling above the bean pile). I also find that if you don't keep the probe stablized, the flopping around will cause fluctuations in the reading and give undulating ROR. So, your design checks all the boxes. Designer frustrated me at first. One issue is that there is no "save" file option once you finish with the design. Turns out that you just uncheck the Designer flag that put you into designer, then the profile is there to be saved. The other frustation is getting a smooth curve that looks close to physical reality. Just add more points on the curver or delete them as needed. Right mouse on the curve and then add data point. Also, there is a config table with that right mouse menu where you can enter the major event milestones like DE, FC and Drop temps. I have read that these artificial curves are better for controlling roasts since controlling roasts from old saved profiles sends that controller after every like noisy wave in the collected data of the prior data which is in the background. You basically are amplifying the noise. The designer tool gives smooth mathematical data. I wasn't ready to spend over a $1000 on the M2. The M2 is a going for $1880 right now ... M1 is on sale for $900. I just wanted to get into a "real" rotary drum roaster beyond the Behmor (which is fine but lacks instrumentation like BT, ET, adequate heat control, and air flow - although I rigged it to give me BT). I typically do 225 g on my SR800 and the M1 can do 200 g - close enough to do comparisons. Plus, I want to try different profiles to optimize taste in the cup. So, doing 100 g batches in the M1 is ideal. I am seeing the day when I can roast the same profile on the M1 and the SR800 and compare.... it will be a fun adventure :) In the meantime, I also found a post where the SR800/540 is controlled via Artisan and, thus, you can use the built in PID controller on Artisan. I opted to just get the M1 instead. I recently contacted the manufacturer of the Fresh Roast and asked if they would ever consider providing PC control like their old SR700 models. Apparently, they are going to provide an upgrade in the near future to allow one to control the FR from Artisan ... I hope it will have continuous sliders for Fan Speed and Heat ... which is what I really need on my SR800 since my unit tends to dry the beans faster than I want since I have to manage the bean loft. You might want to do an episode with the manufacturers and have them demo it 🙂
John, thank you very much for sharing your experience with the designer. I am at a point where I can design my own profile manually and then work through the profile and get pretty close on my first try. This achievement does vary based on the roaster I am using. But, the designer does interest me and I will give it another go and see what happens. I understand the M1 decision. I hope you enjoy that experience. It will be a step up from the Behmor, that is for sure. I do have the Fresh Roast people on my "to-do" collaboration list and will definitely mention the demo opportunity. That would be really fun. I appreciate the suggestion. It is always good to get input from viewers. Enjoy the Roaster!
I appreciate all your videos and try to learn something from each one. Although I don’t have a Fresh Roast, I can and will plan to try and duplicate with my setup what you did in your roast. Hopefully mine will be as successful as yours!
Which roaster are you using @chuskster623 ? There will be some differences and you probably will need to make some changes. For example, a Hive user wanted to do the same thing. Here is what I said: As far as the profile goes, you would have to make a lot of changes. The hive won't get that coffee dry in 3 mintues. You would have to use a much lower charge weight (less coffee). You would need to be really really careful with your heat management. The hive uses a lot of convection during the first 2/3 of the roast so that will be challenging to get a short profile time. My past experience with the Hive attempting shorter roast times ended in a challenging, darker than desired result because i had to pour on sho much heat to get the shorter time. That being said I didn't experiment with a lighter batch size. Having said that, I don't think (my opinion) you need to try to aim for a 7 1/7 minute total roast time. I'm thinking a 9 minute roast with the lighter batch size and again..... being really really careful to manage heat, stay in control and then have a low ROR as you come into FC. Of course all of this still requires us to have a lower Bean Temp when it is all said and done. I'm thinking a BT on my hive with the digital display would look like 390f..... I'm more concerned about reaching FC and keeping my temp low than I am with a development time. That will all work out if I have my heat and ROR range in control during development.
Mike, I use a modified West Bend The Poppery. The heater and fan are separated. I use a variac to control the heat and a rotary switch to control the fan speed. So that the heater won’t slow the fan speed, I put the heater and fan on separate house electrical circuits. When I want to use Artisan, I attach a Mastech 6514 to transmit the bean temperature to the computer. I usually roast 113 grams which is ¼ of a pound. Largely thanks to your videos, I get very even roasts and some excellent tasting coffee. What problems might I face if I want to emulate the basic profile that you used? I don’t think that I would have any trouble getting through the dry phase in three minutes. I usually use 102 volts during the dry phase and it usually takes me four minutes. I know that your emphasis is on coffee roasting, but would it be possible for you to do a video on some basic cupping techniques for the home coffee roaster? I know when I make a good cup of coffee using my Aeropress, but I am at a loss to distinguish any fruity, chocolaty notes etc. You seem to have no difficulty in doing so. I know that other home coffee roasters have the same problem@@VirtualCoffeeLab
I don't think you fill face any problems but because your roasting on a completely different setup you will have to compensate your temps to follow the profile. How much heat retention your roaster has compared to mine is different. Batch size is different as well. So, following an exact profile might now work but you should get pretty close. I am interested to see if your ROR behaves the same.
Curious you state the "bean temperature" but the probe is way up to the top of the chamber. How is that the "same" or close to the beans? I have a probe sitting right where the beans are jumping.
That is a great question. I called it the bean temp because that is the probe assigned to display that temp on the graph. A big issue with bean probes for hot air roaster is the influence of hot air. Is it reading the hot air or the bean when in fact many times the beans are not huddled against the probe but flying around. Because the probe is down in the bean it is only an inch or two away from the heat source . So, it seems to me we aren't really measuring the bean temp, rather both the beans and hot air. When I roasted on the Ikawa and the LINK air roasters their probe was suspended above the bean mass like mine. Actually, i was doing this before the Kaffeligic or LINK were made. I got the idea from the Ikawa. Both of these manufacturers have researched, experimented, etc.. and have determined their bean probe is set above the bean mass. So, you are right, it isn't a true bean temperature., but I would also say the probe in the bean mass isn't the true bean temperature either. I positioned my probe in proximity to the bean mass so that displayed temperatures which seemed to be more normalized to the type of graph I am used to seeing. I'm not saying it is right but now you know why I have chosen to do this. I placed the Exhaust Temp probe through the bottom of the roasting chamber base about a 1/4 inch so it is just inside the base housing. This give a temp of the hotest air and helps me understand the temperature before it is influenced by the bean mass. I like my setup but it isn't necessarily the right way or only way. In the end, like the Behmor, Gene Cafe, and Fresh Roast, built in temperature readings are a good reference source but are not true bean temps. I guess I would categorize my probe setup to be similar, ie.. a good reference source. Thanks for watching, and for your question @2005Colly.
great video! I haven't tried keeping the temp setting on a low number and adjusting only the fan speed, but based on your results here, I will now give it a try. Seems like keeping the temp constant at a relatively low setting and decreasing the fan speed as you've done here may give a more even roast, more gradual increase of the heat. What I have been doing is starting out with temp on 1, fan 9. I gradually increase temp to 4 during the dry phase, then continue increasing the temp one number at a time all the way to temp 9 and only then do I start to decrease the fan speed. First crack usually happens at temp 9, but sometimes I have to reduce the fan speed to get to First Crack.
Hi Pima. I was doing that as well. One challenge I was experiencing using the incremental increase of temperature was the high temperatures taking place inside the roasting chamber. It caused my coffee to be a little darker and dirtier tasting than i wanted. So, i began to experiment. I wanted to achieve a pretty low moisture loss (under 12%) but I didn't want the, all to common, underdeveloped taste. I landed on this approach for my light roast and it has been a game changer for me. I wold like to consider a similar approach with some modifications for my medium roasts. I am a huge fan of monitoring my heat temperature during the roast. This would be the ET (inlet temp) for the fresh roast. In my video i talk about keeping that ET at a max temp of under 450. So, that principle, would be applied to a larger roast weight (capacity). My assumption would be the roast will be stretched out a little longer, with humps in the ROR might be a little bigger BUT the methodology of heat/fan management would be similar. I guess that is for a future video. :-)
@@VirtualCoffeeLab thanks! I look forward to a new video of a medium roast using the SR 540. (You do all the experimentation and hard work, and we get to enjoy the benefits! Lucky us ;-) Meanwhile, I'm looking forward to trying your light roast method you've detailed in this video. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and yours!
Thanks for the great video(s). I am expecting to get an SR800 with extension tube in the next couple of weeks as my first roaster. I was wondering if you could recommend a "foolproof" first roast process/bean to get me started on the path of success. I have watched a lot of videos, but have not found anything to address "early success" for the first time roaster. In fact it is quite overwhelming right now with all the information out there. I am hoping there is a green bean and process that may be fairly forgiving for a newbie like myself that will help to fuel my passion for coffee and roasting by produce good results the first time . FWIW I prefer to drink light roast coffee (like in your video) but would rather have a first process/bean that would likely be more successful if light roast is too challenging for the beginner. Appreciate all you do!
Hi James, thanks for subscribing and your question. I think the Fresh Roast community on Facebook will be really helpful for you as you learn about your roaster and what others are doing. You have kind of eluded to the fact that there is a lot of info out there and it is overwhelming. Honestly I would plan to buy a few pounds of cheap green coffee to experience the roasting process. Pay attention to heat and fan settings and see how they influence the color, smell and time as you roast. Use this time to learn how to control your roaster. The most common mistake is to run full heat for most of the roast and race towards first crack. I think this video demonstrates you don't need to be at power 9. Having said that, I realize there is more than one way to roast coffee so I am not saying this is the right way. You should learn about basic roasting concepts including color change (the dry event), First Crack, get to understand how the smell changes during the roasting process and how that correlates with your roasting phases and overall progress. Logging your roasts is always a good idea so you can look back at our notes and see what you might change for the next roast. So, what do I recommend for a fullproof first roast? Wow, I think you should buy a high density bean. So, high altitude, washed coffee from central america would be a good start. I am a fan of Guatemalan coffee. Once you get a dozen roasts under your belt then maybe consider roasting a different coffee. I would not buy a variety pack because different coffees will roast a little different and you want to learn how the changes you make to your power and air will impact the cup.... I would use the same amount of coffee each time you roast. So, roast 150 grams or whatever you decide and then start with the recipe I shared in this video. Because you are using the SR800, it might perform differently than my SR540. That means you will have to make adjustments to figure it out. See/compare how your roasting event times are different than mine and make adjustments. Also compare roast levels and see if the color and moisture loss are where you want to be for your own personal preferences. Start with this and then come back to this message thread you started and let me know what happens. I will be glad to respond. Don't jump into Artisan really soon. Learn to control your roaster first. Was that helpful?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Yes, that was very helpful! Thank you! I have been kind of binge watching your videos and have learned a lot already without even having my roaster yet. While I tend to be technical with regards to, well, everything, I appreciate your advice to keep it simple at first. I can easily see myself buying thermocouple probes and using Artisan down the way, but don't want to get "paralysis of analysis" out of the gate. Just want to have fun roasting. You have shown me that I can still get good roasts without all the tech and learning to see, smell and taste the roast should come first. I appreciate your willingness to help.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Per your recommendation, I ordered a washed guatemalen (from Sweet Maria's). I tried my first roast on the SR800 with extension tube a few days ago. It took longer than I expected because I broke the glass roasting chamber trying to insert the extension with all three rubber bands, so I had to order a new one (I was so bummed). For those new to the extension, do not force fit it if it is super tight with all three bands like I did. I removed one of the bands when I got the new chamber, and though a little loose at the bottom, it seems to work fine. I really did not do a good job documenting my first roast and really have no idea what I am doing yet, but am am super happy with how my first roast turned out! It was comparable to some of the "professional" roasts I have been buying for years, hopefully this was not just a lucky first roast. I am going to try using Artisan next, since I think it will really help with documenting my roasts and getting some level of repeatability. So thanks again for your videos, they really helped, and I am well on my way now!
Hi James, I'm sorry to hear about your extension tube woes. I broke my roasting chamber taking the tube out. It is a fragile piece of glass. I'm glad you had a successful roast. Generally speaking, you will want to stick with the higher elevation coffees for this type of roast profile here in the video. I would chart your roasts manually , writing down the time and temperature just for the experience before you go down the artisan path. It will be a good experience for you. Charting can also help you "document" your roasts and then go back and use them for future roasts.. I'm looking forward to hear more about your Fresh Roast experience!
Amazing, I would like to build a similar roaster here in Europe. Can you use your experiences for drum roasting also? Did you apply the probes without any instructions? Are you familiar with cafelogic also? I would like to have a sample roaster for evaluating new greens without big losses.
He’ll Erhard. The Fresh Roast could be used as a sample roaster. It will not be a direct profile transfer to the larger machine. It will help you evaluate a coffee for purchase. You can make a homemade air roasting system but for your purposes this might be a quicker and simpler method. Probe placement was based on several factors including; Videos on TH-cam Personal experience Design concepts from the IKAWA I am familiar with the kaffelogic and the LINK roaster. Both are good roaster options but you pay more.
I'm still learning to roast with the Nuvo hand roaster, getting pretty good results (though not consistent yet, unfortunately, but I've made a few roasts that I consider successful) I'm thinking of upgrading soon, either to a Hive, or something that doesn't require a gas stove. This Fresh Roast looks pretty nice so I might look into that! I was wondering, what do you use for brewing? I have an Italian coffee maker, but I'd like to be sure I get the best out of my coffee with this kind of brewer...
Thanks for your message, for watching, and being a subscriber. The fresh roast is a good option. With regard to brewing, I use the Kalita, clever dripper, and Aeropress. I have brewed most of my coffee on the Kalita single serve for the past year and have been very happy. I am also really excited with some of my brews using the aeropress. Always juicy and not complicated to use.
Yep. There are plenty of videos on youtube that show how to use them. There are others like the switch, v60, chemex, and more. It is a very big rabbit hole.
Hi Love the videos and info. I'm using Artisan on a mac. My data screen looks very different than yours. How can I update mine to read the same data? Thank You!
“Normal conditions”, is kind of subjective. Doing 2-3 roasts per week, this roaster should last several years or longer. If you roast dark that could possibly shorten the life but I have no data to support that. It is a good quality roaster.
FR540 and live tanzanian peaberry. 3 oz of beans. Full power and fan speed for first minute. Step down to fan speed 8 after 2nd minute. Next I step down to fan speed 6 or 7 fan speed as i want the temp to rise to 435. Six and a half minutes until cooling phase. This produces a light to medium roast.
Hi Elkstalker, thanks for sharing how you roast light. The Tanzanian peaberry is a really dense bean. I bet it is really tasty. Are you using an extension tube?
I assume you have to drill holes through the chaff collector for the probes how did you determine where and the size? Are they fairly snug holes or loose fitting? If loose is there much heat loss? Thanks for using the Fresh Roast once again, I've been using mine for a little over a year and everything is pretty much coming out a medium roast. Wanted to change, this is giving me new ideas. Thanks!
Hello Marc, yea, drill holes in the top, through that super fine screen. Before drilling I would get the probes first and test all of your connections to make sure everything works. Once you are all set you will drill 2 holes. I positioned my holes so the shorter BT probe is near the center of the lid. The ET (long probe) is placed somewhere around the 10 oclock position if you are facing the roaster and the hole should be positioned so when it goes down into the tube, it reaches the metal bottom of the roasting chamber and goes in one of the small holes. IMPORTANT.... notice in my video at 0:07 the position of the holes in my lid. Also notice at 2:36 I show the bottom of the roasting chamber and if you look carefully you will notice how far the probe sticks through the bottom. It is only like an 1/8th of an inch. You don't want to have the probe stick down too far. I'm not sure what is down there (fan blades or heating element.... I don't want you to damage your roaster so be careful. As far as the holes go, NOTICE at 2:29 the probe has a "shoulder". There is a thicker part of the probe at the base of the metal (not the wire) near my hand. Then it gets a little smaller/narrower. I drilled my holes so the narrow part fits through but with a little pressure the thicker part kind of snugs and stops as it goes into the hole. This allows the probe to stay in position. You could put some metal clamps at the top of the probe to keep them in position if you want. I hope my response has been helpful. Happy Roasting!
Dave I purchased the thermocouplers and phidget you put in the description, I'm having difficulty with #1 installing the probes to the phidget; what goes to what terminal, #2 In Artisan it doesn't list the 1048_2 Only lists 1048 4xTC 01. Any help you could provide would be much appreciated
Hi Mark. If you look at 2:27 in this video you will see how to connect. The terminals are named 4,G,3,G,2,G,1,G,0,G. and the red terminals connect to the numbers. So, 1=red wire and G=black wire for each probe. You will probably need to install the phidget driver/software. Then reboot your computer, go into artisan, select Device>Machine? Phidget (select version) and you should be all set. Now, restart artisan, click the "On" button and then wait to see if the BT and ET display a temp. If yes, put your hand on the end of one of the probes and see if the temperature changes in Artisan. This will tell you if you connected the correct wires (ET/BT). If you didn't connect the BT to the BT on the Phiget, then you can either swap the wires OR i think you can go into artisan to swap the assignments.
Hey nice video! I've been watching you for some time now. I've a fr800 with extension tube and artisan. Where did you get those settings/buttons for artisan? I've been using this set up a little over a year and have tried so many approaches to roastes. Haven't tried that one. So greatful for your content. Cheers, Troy
Hi Troy. Thanks for watching and for being a subscriber. I'm glad my videos have been helpful to you. You can create buttons in artisan settings. At some point I plan to share my artisan log files, aset files, and recipes in a membership-type feature (maybe Patreon). I've got a lot of roasts and tips i can share. I'm not sure if that would interest any of my channel watchers. Thanks for your comments, Troy. Have a great week roasting!
Hi Cory. As far as the profile goes, you would have to make a lot of changes. The hive won't get that coffee dry in 3 mintues. You would have to use a much lower charge weight (less coffee). You would need to be really really careful with your heat management. The hive uses a lot of convection during the first 2/3 of the roast so that will be challenging to get a short profile time. My past experience with the Hive attempting shorter roast times ended in a challenging, darker than desired result because i had to pour on sho much heat to get the shorter time. That being said I didn't experiment with a lighter batch size. Having said that, I don't think (my opinion) you need to try to aim for a 7 1/7 minute total roast time. I'm thinking a 9 minute roast with the lighter batch size and again..... being really really careful to manage heat, stay in control and then have a low ROR as you come into FC. Of course all of this still requires us to have a lower Bean Temp when it is all said and done. I'm thinking a BT on my hive with the digital display would look like 390f..... I'm more concerned about reaching FC and keeping my temp low than I am with a development time. That will all work out if I have my heat and ROR range in control during development. What do you think?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Thank you, I'm going to give this a try when my hive gets here - not sure if you're interested in it but would love to see a video on approaching profiling light roasts on the Hive!
It is on my list of videos Corey. I can't promise when I would get to it but I will eventually. In the mean time, please share your progress as you experiment with the Hive. I would really appreciate that.
Hi Alec, thanks for watching. Yea, I've done that a lot. I hear something and then follow the advice. Sometimes it is helpful BUT I realize that I don't really know the source of the suggestion and maybe, just maybe, it is someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. That is why i like to experiment. Many of my experiments are confirmations, but many are nice surprises. I think the fan has a more gentle transition when stepping up or down compared to the power setting. If you are using artisan you can test it for yourself to see. My experience in the past was a constant toggle back and forth between power settings to try and maintain a decent declining ROR. In many of my other roasting experiences I have noticed a "natural curve" that happens when power settings remain constant. You can see that clearly taking place here in this video as you watch the ET after I stop changing my fan. In the case of this roast, the bean mass is influencing the temperatures. Not only are the beans getting hotter but the mass is holding in heat as i lower the fan speed. Because the beans are getting lighter i can lower the fan setting and i still get decent bean movement BUT I think the beans are not lofting as much on the underside of the mass and that is causing the beans to block more of the air, allowing the temperature of the air to increase. I could be totally wrong about this but that is the impression i am getting when i look at the ET for this roast. What do you think?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab agreed! I believe that advice was from Raos roasting book, but that was also for a drum roaster. With your tube roaster, the air plays an additional role!
I attended one of Rao's workshops while at the SCA this past April. One of my take-aways was his focus on airflow. He uses an IMF roaster and even though it is a drum roaster, it uses air in a way most other drum roasters don't. The heat box is outside of the drum area and hot air is used to heat the roasting environment. They use so much air the beans are flying everywhere. So, one of the things he recommended was to consider using a constant rate of airflow. I have been using that technique for my drum roasting since then and it has really helped me with my consistency. Unfortunately it doesn't help with the fresh roast but I thought I would mention the importance of airflow for drum roasting. Even though we are talking about two different roasting universes so to speak, I do believe that finding the right heat setting (fixed) to land on and then combine that with the needed airflow steps during the roast is the way to go, and based on all of the variables like charge weight, density, end temps, etc... we make the necessary adjustments.
Helpful. I’m using an older SR500 with extension tube. No temperature only color, time and smell. I’m still figuring it out. Have you tried the skywalker? Love to see a review of that system.
Why did you roast on power 4? I see in some videos roasting at 4-6, in others - at 9. Somebody said you must use 9 to make the process as quick as possible, otherwise the beans are baked rather than roasted.
Hmm, my coffee surely didn't taste baked. It was light and fruity and I was really pleased with the result. I'm not going to be critical of other roasting methods Michael. There are different roasting approaches and my way is not the only way to roast. The fan plays a huge role in the temperature and speed of the roast, not just the power settings. So, let me share why I did what I did. First, one goal in my roast was to get a light roast. Second, I wanted to use artisan so people could see the impact of my temperature choices. Third, I wanted people to see it is possible to have a nice descending rate of rise. Some people live and breathe on this point. Others say it isn't possible with the fresh roast. In this video, I did start with 4. You saw the result of increased temperatures and my descending rate of rise. I hit dry in three minutes and the coffee roasted completely in seven minutes and thirty seconds. That is not a short roast and not a long roast. So, how could I do this? How could I roast at a power setting of 4, while others are roasting at a power of 9? 1. Batch size. The more coffee you put in the roaster, the hotter the temps are because you are blocking the heat with all of those beans. So, you can use batch size to help you find the right temperatures and times for your roast. See my batch-size video for more details on this. 2. Fan Speed. I made very important fan adjustments that helped to promote higher temperatures. This is what I was talking about earlier. By lowering the fan, I am actually increasing heat because there isn't as much loft in the beans. 3. You will notice I didn't make any adjustments to the fan or heat after the dry event. I allowed the natural curve to progress. Temperature increases continued to slow down (but they were still increasing) which helped give me that nice descending ror. I think I explained in more detail why I did what I did in my video but the comments I typed above kind of summarize my approach. Are you roasting on a fresh roast? Are you happy with your results? Don't always believe what other people tell you, including me. I would encourage you to try different approaches. I think learning about the basic concepts of roasting is a game-changer. My new video series I am doing right now on the "Profile" will help answer more about why I take the approach I do in my videos. Let me know your thoughts. Were my comments helpful? Let me know if you have more questions about this. I will be glad to try and answer them. Thanks for watching and for asking your great question..
I did mention this when I recorded BUT it was mistakenly edited out. Honestly, my videos are about an hour long and I edit them to be as lean as possible. Sorry about the edit oversight. I used the Stainless Steel Kalita with my Fellows grinder and kettle. 21 grams of coffee to 350 grams of hot water at about 204f. Total draw time was about three minutes and forty seconds.
Hi Ken...... Yes, I took a little break. Going to be uploading a short video sharing some of my plans for this year and also asking for topic suggestions. The video should go live within the hour.
Richard, you mean roasting 250 grams with the same roaster and same coffee? Hmmm, not sure. I would have to experiment. I would say I may need to increase my heat a little, so I would experiment with a heat setting of 5 first and possibly use a fan setting of 8 to start. Then see if that would get my coffee dry in that 3 minute range. I don't know what changes would be required for my fan steps BUT I think the larger mass of coffee might require me to make another fan adjustment later into the roast just before first crack..... BUT I don't know for sure. I would need to experiment with that. Why don't you give it a try and see what happens. I would be interested to hear the results. Are you using artisan?
If you have the same roaster, without artisan you should be able to follow my recipe in the video and get close, assuming your beans are similar and you use the same batch size. I would try that first before you jump to the 250. Otherwise, just go for it and see what happens.
Thanks for watching and for being a subscriber! I am able to sniff near the top of the chaff collector to get an idea of what is going on BUT you are right, it isn't the same as a trier. I guess the trade off is great bean movement for an even roast AND amazing visibility to help. Overall not being able to smell as much hasn't been a big problem. I still have sound, color, bean size AND artisan to help provide enough info to maintain control and know when to end the roast.
I have experienced tipping with the fresh roast. It's been a long time, but early on i was applying too much heat. How much coffee are you roasting per batch (sr540 or 800?) and how long does it take your coffee to dry?
@VirtualCoffeeLab I'm using 150 grams with the 540 and extension tube. Usually about 3 to 3.5 mins to dry and around 6 to 6.5 mins to 1st crack. It's happening pretty much every roast. It doesn't seem to matter what coffee I use. Most roasts are tasting good but I wonder if they could be better.
OK, so 3 minutes might be a little fast to yellow but as you can see it my video, I hit dry at 3 minutes as well. I'm roasting with High density coffee. If you are roasting with Brazilian, some Indonesian type coffee then this could be the issue. You said "every coffee you roast" but you didn't say what the density is. medium and lower density coffee need to be more gentle with the heat upfront to avoid this. What are your heat settings during your roast? As you can see here, I'm at a 4.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I have roasted a variety of beans. Ethiopia, kenya, Rwanda, Guatemala, Colombia, Nicaragua, Costa Rica,. They were mostly washed but a couple dry process and an Indonesian. 0:00 F9 P1 2:00 F8 P4 3:30 F6 P5 5:00 F5 P5 That usually gets me to 1st crack around 6:00. Is that too fast?
Thanks for sharing your settings. The good news is you are enjoying your coffee. We didn't really talk about roast level. If you are going light, like I am here in this video I would change your dry phase approach. It might lengthen the time some but it won't really impact the cup. Once color change begins is where you need to really make sure you have good momentum. In your case you do. I would start my power at P2 and then transition to P3 at the 2 minute mark and then at 3 minutes move to P5 and see how that impacts the roasting defects. It will lengthen your dry phase but don't worry about that. Once you get to dry (whatever that time is) aim for about 3 minutes and 30 seconds for your middle phase. Then for development (first crack to end of roast) spend a1 minute to 1 minute and 30 seconds before dropping the coffee. Again, I don't know your preferred roast level. Too much heat up front is likely what is causing your tipping. the more feathered approach to the heat during dry should help. Let me know what you think and if you try it, please let me know if it helped.
First and foremost: Shoot for 12.5 to 12.7% W/L and hide that coffee in the cabinet for 10 days and you will be in love. Light roast on a fluid bed takes longer to develop than drum-roasted beans. I roast on a SR800 w ext tube and I roast light most of the time. I have three different Ethiopian greens in the cabinet as I type. It's my staple. Your video was very interesting and it's a little different from how I roast light, but not much. I WILL be trying your way next roasting session after I figure out some variables such as 200g load. I have been starting at 9/1 and stepping my power up every 20 sec until I reach about 8 or 9 depending on the bean. I start dropping fan around 1:30 to 8 then fan 7 around 1:45 then fan 6 around 2:00. My plan is to make ALL adjustments by DE or very shortly after, but you have to have the heat in there if you are going to coast. I aim for 3:00 to 3:15 for DE and 1C around 6:30 so you see how similar our profiles are. I, like you, aim for around 7:30 drop, but I go by % development in Artisan to achieve my 12.5 - 12.7% W/L. Once again I will try your profile next and expect really good results. Your beans hit a point where they were what I call "slogging". I know I've mentioned this before but I'll say it one more time. If you put something about 5/8 inch thick under the front arc of the roaster your beans will circulate better and your roast will be more even. Final word......Great job as usual. One more thing, I do not increase power and decrease fan at the same time. Definitely stagger those adjustments.
Mike, thanks for sharing your roasting experiences with me. Honestly I did wait about 4 days for the coffee to rest BUT once that came the coffee didn't last long. It was that good. Probably some of the best ethiopian washed I have had in a long time AND I can repeat.... !!! The Sr800 with Rao tube really holds in the heat. There will be some differences but if you use artisan, watch that ET because it really helped show me what was happening with my target peak temps.... I have found that changing the power setting on the Fresh Roast mid roast really impacts the curve. I've tried stepping power and then soon after, the fan but i end up toggling the power during my roast. This roast (as you say) was hands off just after DE with a nice decent with power left at 4 all the way through. I think I might try the exact same user inputs and using 180 grams except change my power from a 4 to a 5 during dry. Then watch my ET temp and adjust power once right after DE and again, let it naturally work through the rest of the roast. I had really nice modeling on the bean (the wrinkles). I could try and go a little longer to see what it taste like BUT that was a golden cup. I'm not sure if could get much better (for me). What is your ROR from first crack to drop? Just curious.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab First, I did not know that an SR roaster could produce such a smooth ROR until I started roasting in a manner that is VERY similar to how your video just showed. We are on what is one of the best tracks to using these roasters to get the best out of the coffee. Do me this one favor. Put back enough beans for one cup of coffee for ten days (20 to 25 grams or whatever you grind). To answer your question, my ROR is in single digits during the development phase. Sometimes high single digits and depending on how long I stretch it out sometimes in the low single digits. I aim for a W/L between 13% to 15% with my Central & South American beans and it can get around 5 or so. I still plan my roasting for shelving my beans for ten days though! ........................................20 to 25 grams X 10 days = gamechanger😁I'll shut up now.
Thanks Mike. I will try the 10 day storage. I'm soooo happy wth the coffee that I'm not sure I want to go to 12.5, but for the sake of experimenting and serendipity and since you are trying my profile, I will give it a go AND even raise the front arc. I love having my ROR be in the "FUN ZONE" during development (which is in the single digits). Thanks for sharing!
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I performed two roasts today using your "Nordic Style" profile. Interestingly, I was roasting a Honduran bean and wanted a more medium roast. It worked out to be an excellent roast. They were each 230g loads in the FR extension tube. I had a one pound bag that was slightly over so hence the heavy half pound charge. These were two of the smoothest roasts I have done. The Artisan profiles are almost a mirror. I would send you these excellent profiles if you were interested. I can't wait to try them even though you know how long I will wait. Thanks for showing me a new way to successfully roast my coffee. This profile has a lot of versatility. You are "The Man".
Nice Job Mike. Yea, the Honduran is probably a larger bean and less dense than the ethiopian I did in my roast. Density and Charge weight will cause the profile to shift and give slightly different results. This is where testing comes in. Usually, on a drum roaster, a larger charge weight will slow the roast down, stretching it out. Air roasters, depending on their design, can behave differently. What was your total roast time for these two roasts? I would be interested to see what your 180 gram roast looks like compared to the 230. If you go to my channel homepage and the channel description can be expanded. There you will find a link to email me the two profiles. It might be bet to send me a screenshot of each profile but if you want to send the alog files you can do that too. Whatever is easier for you. Thanks.
Feedback: For first-time viewers, there is no knowledge of Artisan software and Phiget probe install, no knowledge of ROR curves, no knowledge of why you held the temperature steady while managing the fan speed - in contrast to many other videos. your vast experience in roasting with drums lends itself to what you say, but a beginner is already lost from the get-go as to what is going on. Now they are searching for roasting profiles even though the vast majority by far are for drum roasters. It's a good start, but I think you got into the weeds very fast. Just saying.
Thank you for your feedback, Robert. I really do appreciate it. I’ll try to be more inclusive for future videos. It’s pretty challenging because of the broad experience level of my audience. I know that my next video will be a little more advanced as well. I have more intro roasting videos planned. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and valuable feedback.
Thanks!
Thank you very much for the Super Thanks James. I appreciate your donation and support!
Super helpful video. I just ordered an SR800 with extension tube and improved chaff collector. Wasn't sure if i wanted to pull the trigger on temp probes etc. but I can now tell how helpful. those will be. Keep the content coming. I'll be tuning in to learn more about home roasting on the Fresh Roast.
Thanks for watching and subscribing Senior. Congratulations on the SR800. All of my videos include basic roasting concepts so be sure to glean some helpful tips with my videos using other types of roasters as well. When you get the roaster, i would focus on color, smell, bean movement and just learning how to control the roaster. The artisan stuff will be helpful later on.
I also really relate to your tasting notes. Sometimes when people start getting too involved with the flavor notes I start to loose them. Yours were spot on with the level of flavors I get from pourovers.
Tasting is something I am constantly learning how to express. The more foods we taste expands our palate library. I've never been a very adventurous foodie but i am trying to branch out with my food / taste experience. Thanks for sharing.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I feel like I’m the opposite. I’ve been pretty adventurous with my food and have enjoyed many foods from around the world for decades. However I usually get categories (such as medium sweet, nice acidity, high/low bitterness) rather than distinct flavors (raspberry, green apple, jasmine) in pourovers. I will admit I was able to discern some very distinct flavors when I spent a long weekend with a 98mm high clarity flat burr grinder and numerous quality beans used exclusively with espresso. People still give me a look if skepticism when I tell them the flavors were clear as day like I was biting into a kiwi.
Ahhh, gotcha. yes, grinding and brewing methods will really impact the clarity. Thanks again for the encouraging words and for watching....... Hmm, Kiwi. Sounds delicious.
Well I just got a SR540 for Christmas and I am thankful for your detailed explanation of the roasting process. So much to learn. I'll be subscribing and watching!
Congratulations on your SR540. Enjoy!
This is just a perfect video for me since I just got a Fresh Roast 800 with the extension tube. Thank you again. I hopet mine turns out just as good. 👍
The 800 with extension tube will roast differently, especially because you are roasting a larger volume of beans using ease the same base unit. Regardless, the concept is the same for most air roasters.
Love it! We could watch this all day is a fun process and can be done to your liking. You have a great knowledge of coffee and enjoy your thoughts! Subbed and keep it up!
Thanks so much! Glad they are helpful!
i have logged nearly 300 roasts now on my SR800, with extension tube. what i usually do is begin with 9 fan speed and 1 power, than each 60seconds, either reduce fan speed or increase power (my first 2 adjustments are always to fan speed only, so my beans don't loft too much as they dry).
my goal is 7.5 ounces of roasted beans, so that generally requires a charge weight from 8.7 to 8.8 ounces.
by roast end, my fan is down to 5 and power has increased to 4. i rarely go beyond 1 1/2 minutes of development time, so my roast level is never greater than FC, and most of the time I'm happiest with C+, where the chaff in the crevices of the beans is still light colored.
Nice approach. What type of coffee are you roasting and are you using the FR to cool down or dumping the roast right after. What does that roast calculate for weight loss? Thanks for sharing, watching, and subscribing!
weight loss ranges from 12-16% depending on roast level. total roast times generally run 8:00 - 8:30. i don't cool in the FR, i dump into a fan powered cooling tray that was bundled with my FR. most of my greens are from higher altitudes. i buy from sweet marias with the majority of origens being guatemals and ethiopia, but i do experiment with 1# and 2# bags of many others as well. almost all are arabica, and none are decaf. i've been brewing with a technivorm moccamaster the past 6 weeks, and am quite happy with it. i use a ratio of 15 or 16 to one, water to beans. brew time for 1 liter is about 5 minutes.
great information. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you. I am a weekend roaster. Actually about once a month weekend roaster. I use the SR 800. I don't have anything fancy hook up, just the machine exhaust temp, and that is probably all I will ever use for the roast. No artisan, no thermometers, just the basic and that is about all I can afford now. Probably about all I can understand right now too, not a tech guy with coffee. Love computers but the tech stuff tends to go over my head. That is one of the reasons I use the Fresh Roast. Would like to see more of just some plan Jane basic roasting like this so I can gain some experience. Really enjoy watching, comparing and learning. I have only been at it about 1 year now, but it is a fun hobby. I don't see much on you tube now after all the pandemic crisis has passed. Seems like folks are just not posting much or teaching much to the small home roaster. So, thanks for keeping it simple and for sharing. God Bless. OH, I do use the extension tube, it has made a huge difference in my roast. It kind of compensates for my lack of skill :).
Hello Popples, thanks for sharing. I understand why "plain jane" thing. Yea, Basic roasting concepts applied Manually. There is a lot to be said for that. Most people are just trying to follow a recipe OR someone's instructions without understanding how the heat applied over time impacts the flavor profile. I'll keep that in mind as I work through my topic list.
I'm glad my videos are helpful. Thank you for watching.
@VirtualCoffeeLab
Thanks for the roast. I'm excited to be trying this profile! Just bought an sr800 with artisan mods, im learning to roast and you are easily the TH-cam creator that I have learned the most from. You explain roasting very well and I enjoy watching your videos.
Something I noticed in your videos is your rest time on light roasted coffee. Even one of your latest videos roasting light with the keleido. Really Light fruity type roasts require alot of rest time before brewing(2-3weeks+) to open up and really become more fruity and juicy. Some roasters that only roast ultarlight (Sey, Dak, September etc...) they specify to not even open the bags before 30-45 days after the roast and they really peak in flavour even later then that.
Thanks for sharing the rest time. I haven't revisited my rest times for light roasts in quite a while. I will have to experiment with that . The biggest challenge for me is waiting! I will experiment with the light roast rest time and see what happens.
Thanks for sharing your comments. I'm glad my videos have been helpful!
Thanks Mike. I've tried this approach with very positive results. The thing I like most about the approach is that it makes the roast easier to manage . I don't have a thermometer yet, so I've been watching the temp from the machine. ( Mine is the SR800) I plan to get a probe to compare. For cooling, I've been using a collander with a hair dryer on the cool setting.
Bob, I'm glad you are experiencing positive results. consider going into the cool mode and then taking off the top. The cooling may be quicker than the colander. I have been doing that more recently and have been happy with the cool time. What do you think?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Mike, I'll give cooling by taking off the top and compare with my hair dryer approach.
Thanks for posting this! I have been roasting medium-light coffee with FR540+ext tube for about three years now.
I recently have been experimenting with the nordic roasts, aiming for about 12% weight loss.
I have been attempting to dry the beans for 1/3 total roast time using settings 9-9 for 2:30 minutes, but now that I see you began your roast with heat level 4, I am going to jump into a new experiment!
Hi Samuel, thanks for watching. I am interested to hear your thoughts once you try this approach compared to what you have been doing. Please let me know. I would really appreciate that. I'm glad you found my video helpful.
Great video, thanks for posting. Have the same setup but a tiny fraction of your experience, so this gives me something to emulate and compare/contrast. Also nice to see the back and forth in the comments with others I've been watching on YT. Happy holidays.
Thanks for watching and your comments. I’m glad my video was helpful for you. The interaction between me and others on my channel is my favorite part. I learn a lot from the comments of others and it truly makes me a better roaster ;-)
Thanks again for sharing. Happy roasting!
Thanks for including degC. For me (and perhaps others) it has been the practical link to useability which I feel I’ve missed on many great videos of yours I’ve watched. Tks
Glad it is helpful! Thanks for watching.
Excellent video, Mike! I really appreciate you showcasing how important the fan is to manipulating the heat in an air roaster. My roasts on the SR800 lately have been similarly focused largely on using fan to drive the heat and reserving the power setting as sort of a "nudge" one way or the other. My light roasts tend to look just like your curve here, so I was interested to hear what you thought about "nordic" style roasting. I had been under the impression what separated nordic style from what I just in general call a "hot and fast" style was that a nordic style roast had a fairly flat RoR. As in: after coming down from that initial drying phase peak, it plateaued and flattened during most of the roast, then returned to descending during the short development phase. I think I got that from Rao's book, but I'll have to double check 🤣 Either way, I haven't experimented much with that kind of curve, but your version is tried and true as one of our go-tos!
Thank you for the encouraging words David. There are a lot of ways to approach a really light roasted coffee. I visited Tim Wendleboe's cafe last September and bought 3 different coffees. I still have beans from 2 of the 3. Man were they good. One was a natural, which he isn't a huge fan of but he really nailed it. Anyway, The approach I have seen him do does have a shallow descending ROR around half way through the roast. I think he does this because he is roasting on a large probat and he has a lot of momentum in the bean mass. I'm guessing. His total roast time on one profile i saw was about 9 1/2 minutes i think. That was back in 2017. The graph showed an ROR that flew straight up then after 1 1/2 minutes into the roast began it's descending ROR until about 4 1/2 minutes. I am assuming he was close to dry at that point. Then his ror was really really shallow the rest of the roast. I even saw an upward trend in the ROR for a short bit. Anyway, that might be his way, and he is the King o Nordic style roasting. Having said that, everything else I have seen or heard focuses on short roast times and light color (low temperatures).
He keeps his temps low because of that shallow ROR and as i mentioned, i suspect this is because of the amount of coffee he is roasting. With the fresh roast, we hae a small amount of coffee and it is a 100% convection system. This allows us to roast faster and more efficiently. So, the curve doesn't need to be as long as the 9 1/2 minute roast shown in his video. So, I guess I don't really know about a specific curve but the moisture loss, color, acidity and overall, the end result of the roast was similar to what I experienced with Tim Wendleboe's coffee I purchased in Oslo Norway.
I think my development was still pretty good. 15% on the log BUT i cooled in the tube so 16.5% is a rough estimate. Regardless.... Ohhh what a beautiful thing. Nice cup. :-)
I used the approach you are talking about with our PNG coffee from last year. Not quite as aggressive with the heat in the beginning BUT we did intentionally have a nice drop after dry end to get a longer Milliard and to keep the temperature down to give us a nice fat and juicy cup of PNG.....
How about you? Do you use that curve (the drop with a shallow ROR) on any of your roasts?
Here is the reference video i referenced from 2017 th-cam.com/video/BS0v3W-UYRY/w-d-xo.html
@@VirtualCoffeeLab my light focused roast curves look just like yours, that's why I was intrigued when you said nordic! I doubled checked, my touch point for the nordic curve was from Scott Rao's "Coffee Roasting - Best Practices". Rao - "Many roasters from Nordic countries prefer to roast batches lightly and quickly, with relatively high, flat RoRs that crash gently just before discharge of beans..." But let's be honest, I find myself disagreeing with Rao about as often as I agree with him 🤣 and you're right, I'd consider Tim the authority here!
Again, for my part, whatever anyone wants to call it, I really like hot, fast and light roasts on very dense beans. I try to read the coffee and interpret the curve later and usually my curves look like yours in the video - after a peak around DE, a fairly regularly descending RoR. I haven't specifically tried targeting the curve Rao describes, but I may give it a shot one day and see what it's like!
Yea, I agree. I think in my video I said "some might call it Nordic-Style" and as you have pointed out the flattened ROR could be part of that approach. I really enjoy the medium-light to light roast levels as long as I can avoid the underdeveloped notes. Great conversation here David, thanks for sharing. I hope you have a great Christmas season with your family!
@@VirtualCoffeeLab same here and Merry Christmas to you and yours as well!
I'm new to coffee roasting and my FreshRoast 540 gets here today. This is exactly what I needed! Thank you. I'll be watching and learning from you from here on out!
Congratulations on the Fresh Roast Phillip. Let me know how it goes!
Great content. Enjoy your way of speaking and I'm learning a lot. Thanks for the data and the dedication.
Thanks for watching. I'm glad you have enjoyed my content!
This is super helpful, thank you!
Thank you for the super Rafael. I’m so glad this video has helpful. Your support is appreciated.
Very nice video and clear and concise description of what and why you are doing. I roast 228g on a SR800 w/OEM ext tube and use a similar approach. Rarely change the heat/power setting and adjust temperature with changes to the fan only. I use a 200mm probe for bean temperature to get the probe closer to the bean mass. Once the beans start drying the 200mm probe is inside the circulating bean mass.
Thanks for watching Richard and…… thank you for sharing how you roast using the Fresh Roast. Are you using different profiles or sticking with the one you shared?
My profiles tend to be remarkably similar, most likely since I've decided to settle on roasting coffee from Uganda - Mountain Harvest Mbale both honey and washed. I also target the same drop temperature (420F). I've been roasting for two years now. After roasting sample packs from most of the coffee growing regions during my first year I have settled with what I enjoy and am sticking to it. I target a 3min dry phase and try to reach first crack at 6mins (~392F based on where my bean temperature probe placement) and extend the development phase until I hit my drop temperature target of 420F. Why Uganda you might ask - well, I have a personal connection with the country since visiting it in 2017 and have been financially supporting a school there that was established by one of my friends ever since.@@VirtualCoffeeLab
Awesome. Great response and I appreciate the personal connection you shared. Thank you.
I've only had my 540 for a couple of days and done 2 roasts. I'm a fan of cold brew using light roast so I particularly appreciated this video. I'm going to try to accomplish this without the extension... Well, ahh, right now!
Let me know how it worked. The extension tube really makes a difference.
Very helpful video. Appreciate you sharing your knowledge! My first year roasting and have learned a lot from your content. Thank you.
Great to hear! Thanks for watching Chandler
Oh man. Just got recommended this video. TH-cam algorithm has me figured. Don't mind me, I'm going to be binging your videos for a bit now.
Thanks for watching Mike. I'm glad you found my channel. Are you roasting with the Fresh Roast? How long have you been roasting?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I received a used Fresh Roast 500 as a gift a few years back and never seriously used it until recently when my partner gave me a box of green beans as a gift (I think she's trying to tell me something). So I just started using it a few months ago basically for the first time seriously. And now down the rabbit hole I go!
Nice. Congrats on your roaster. Let me know how it goes.
Thanks! I was looking forward to a video like this you always do a nice job
Thank you very much (Devin?). I really appreciate that recognition and appreciation. I really enjoy sharing my roasting journey with other home coffee roasters. What else are you looking forward to?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab fresh roast roaster how does batch size affect roast
funny you should mention that. I already have that in the works. Batch size will influence the profile and I will be sure to include the fresh roast. THank you.
Enjoy the videos. New to this whole thing. I've been roasting for a few months in a pot over a gas cooker. Just bought an sr800 and am purchasing the items to hook up to artisan. Have a question about the probes. Obviously the shorter probe is for the bean temp but does it not need to extend down into the beans. Its hard to see it while its roasting on the video but it looks like it is above the beans.
Thanks for any advice.
Appreciate your channel.
Thanks for your comment Gary, I’m glad you’ve been enjoying my videos.
Ok, so my bean temp probe……..
I’m not sure you can get an accurate bean temp on a fresh roast. This is because the hot air influences the probe. The reason I have my BT probe above the bean mass is:
1. The BT and ET would be too similar I’d the BT was in the bean mass
2. The hot air influences the BT reading and your not getting a true BT when in the bean mass
3. Placing above the bean mass makes my reading look similar to a drum roaster graph and the ET and BT to me are better representations of temps.
4. IKAWA and LINK both use a similar setup as I use. I actually got my idea from the IKAWA.
It’s Not a perfect science, but I like it.
I love this! I've been roasting on a Poppery 2, modded with a heat cutoff switch. So I can sort of manage temp throughout the roast by flipping the switch off, say, every 10 seconds for 2 seconds, or whatever. No probes yet. I'm trying to learn to recognize dry end so I can know which parts of the roast to stretch out, but it's tough... I need to re-watch your video on that :-) I'm a little colorblind so I mostly go by smell.
Thank you for the awesome videos!
Hi Dave, thanks so much for watching and for your comment. I'm glad you enjoy this content. I love to roast on the lighter side and the Fresh Roast can do a great job. Sounds like your Poppery 2 can get some nice results as well.... thats cool.
Yea, color change can be tricky so smelling should help you get close. It doesn't have to be exact but the closer you get the better as far as repeatability goes.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I am definitely a fan of the lighter roasts too. I'll keep honing my smelling skills! :) Thanks.
This was great. I like that you presented the basics on an entry level machine. I'd like to reproduce your setup and try this soon!
Go for it! I’m glad my video was helpful. Thanks for watching and for being a subscriber!
A few months back I roasted some Kochere and it was wonderful. Notes of black cherry with lots of acidity in the best ways. Mike, as a side note, the next time you're in Charlevoix you won't find me. I got hired on as the roaster for Dead River Coffee in Marquette in the U.P.! I've been up here working for about a month now (I'll be making a video soon to update my channel) but it's been awesome. Working on two machines - 5kg and 10kg Ambex roasters.
Congrats on the roastmaster job David. That’s exciting! Those machines roast differently than the bullet. What have you learned about roasting on these larger gas powered roasters? Where are you guys sourcing your greens from? Are you still going to roast and sell your brand on the side?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Gas is a bit different! I've learned how much more volatile a smaller setup is. The 5kg, and certainly the 10, take much less careful observation at every phase in the roast, touch mistakes are at a larger scale too. We source currently from Royal and no, my branded coffee had to cease operations, but, my new employer purchased my Bullet so we can use it for sampling and they're allowing me to introduce a rotating selection of beans of my choosing to help transition my followers into the Dead River ecosystem more easily. It's the start of something really cool!
Thats great David. I am happy for you. Congratulations.
I will need to check out the coffee again at Dead River next time I'm in Marquette now!
Any particular reasons for using the SR540 with extension tube versus the SR800 without extension tube?
Hi Collin,. I don't have any experience with the SR800 BUT I imagine it would be for the same reason i use the extension tube which is more even roast and better bean movement. I think you will probably experience the same thing with the 800. You do your first roast and wished it was a more even roast. Also, there may be times you wish you had greater capacity with either of the roasters. The extension tube will do that for you.
Thanks for watching and for being a subscriber. I hope my response was helpful.
Hi thanks for getting back to me so quickly! I’m using the phidget and 2 k type probes. The buttons on my screen don’t show the way yours do and my background is black.
Hi Justin. Sounds like it is a theme choice you can change in artisan. I think mine is set to classic.
Thank You! I'll try that@@VirtualCoffeeLab
Outstanding video! Been trying to find a method that’ll enable me to roast lighter.
I roast using an identical setup and collect roast data through Artisan. The only differences are that I’ve got my longer probe sitting directly above the bean mass, reading the BT, and my shorter probe reading the exhaust temp.
I’m very curious if setting my shorter probe to read the BT will result in a smoother curve.
Do you think it would make much of a difference on which probe is used for BT & ET?
Thank you for the awesome videos, I learn so much from them!
Hi David, thanks for watching and for subscribing. Probe placement is always a factor BUT i think part of the magic that happened in this roast was finding the right power setting to get me from Dry to end of roast and allow the natural curve to play out in the roast. I hope that makes sense.
As far as why i put the probes where I did for my fresh roasts, watch this video th-cam.com/video/IJTkM4oZOI0/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for your comment and encouraging words.
Man, this is super interesting -- on a recent roast, I never went above power 3 and ended at fan 5 / power 2, and my ET (probe same place as yours) still got to almost 500 degrees.
Hi Jake, that’s interesting. Are you roasting on the sr800 or 450 and were you using an extension tube?
Also, just curious, what was your batch size and the type of coffee? Assuming it was a light roast but 500 sound pretty hot
@@VirtualCoffeeLab SR800 with OEM extension tube, 225g of Ethiopia Yrgacheffe (Halo Bariti), tracking with a 300mm probe poking just barely below the bottom of the roasting chamber
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Just roasted a batch, and it seems like my ET probe just reads a higher temp than yours, for whatever reason. I started F8P4 and dropped to F7P3 at about 2:20, where ET was reading 412 (BT 281). In retrospect, it seems like the whole roast slowed down as a result of dropping to P3. I hit dry end at about 3:38 but didn't get a solid rolling FC until 6:44 (ET 500, BT 389). I'll commit to just trying the whole-roast P4 next time just to see what happens.
Indeed, I have been using a similar technique. I get to my final fan and heat setting within a minute after hitting dry end. Then I leave it be and the ROR declines as you say, due to the closing of the gap between BT and ET (or Inlet Temp), which is the driving force that determines the ROR. I use Artisan Designer to help define the BT trajectory, get the measured BT close to the target in the background by one minute after DE. Then I let it ride. I may drop heat by one at 14% development as suggested by Rao in his book. FWIW, I did try your bean probe placement and I think it may be better than mine (I put it in the bean pile). I am going to do some more tests. Thanks for the videos ... getting a Kaleido M1 soon :)
John, excellent comments, very much appreciated. If I would have dropped my heat by 1 at the very end i might have avoided the flick at the end. I will keep that in mind for a future roast. The mindset of the gap between BT and ET is spot on and missed by most. I have tried to use the designer and find myself being more frustrated than anything else. Probably because of a lack of knowledge in using it. I use backgrounds on some roasts to help me stay on track BUT those are from previous roasts with no background. If you have any tips I am all ears. Thank you for sharing.
I really like my bean probe placement. The BT location is based on the IKAWA placement. It is never in the bean mass. Kind of sounds twisted but it seems to work well.
I'm not sure exactly why you are choosing the M1. For a little more money you get more capacity (if and when you need it) buying the M2. The M3 is happy to roast coffee at 250-400 mg all day long. I think it is rated for as low as 100 grams but I haven't done that yet. I don't have any experiences with the M1 but i have really enjoyed the M2. Congrats on the roaster.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Your probe placement is superior to placement in the bean mass (in my opinion) because I have found that the location will change the apparent measured BT. It gets higher as you get closer to the bottom of the chamber. So I can get FC on the same beans at 415 F (probe near bottom of vessel and well inside bean pile) or 385 F (probe dangling above the bean pile). I also find that if you don't keep the probe stablized, the flopping around will cause fluctuations in the reading and give undulating ROR. So, your design checks all the boxes.
Designer frustrated me at first. One issue is that there is no "save" file option once you finish with the design. Turns out that you just uncheck the Designer flag that put you into designer, then the profile is there to be saved. The other frustation is getting a smooth curve that looks close to physical reality. Just add more points on the curver or delete them as needed. Right mouse on the curve and then add data point. Also, there is a config table with that right mouse menu where you can enter the major event milestones like DE, FC and Drop temps. I have read that these artificial curves are better for controlling roasts since controlling roasts from old saved profiles sends that controller after every like noisy wave in the collected data of the prior data which is in the background. You basically are amplifying the noise. The designer tool gives smooth mathematical data.
I wasn't ready to spend over a $1000 on the M2. The M2 is a going for $1880 right now ... M1 is on sale for $900. I just wanted to get into a "real" rotary drum roaster beyond the Behmor (which is fine but lacks instrumentation like BT, ET, adequate heat control, and air flow - although I rigged it to give me BT). I typically do 225 g on my SR800 and the M1 can do 200 g - close enough to do comparisons. Plus, I want to try different profiles to optimize taste in the cup. So, doing 100 g batches in the M1 is ideal. I am seeing the day when I can roast the same profile on the M1 and the SR800 and compare.... it will be a fun adventure :)
In the meantime, I also found a post where the SR800/540 is controlled via Artisan and, thus, you can use the built in PID controller on Artisan. I opted to just get the M1 instead. I recently contacted the manufacturer of the Fresh Roast and asked if they would ever consider providing PC control like their old SR700 models. Apparently, they are going to provide an upgrade in the near future to allow one to control the FR from Artisan ... I hope it will have continuous sliders for Fan Speed and Heat ... which is what I really need on my SR800 since my unit tends to dry the beans faster than I want since I have to manage the bean loft. You might want to do an episode with the manufacturers and have them demo it 🙂
John, thank you very much for sharing your experience with the designer. I am at a point where I can design my own profile manually and then work through the profile and get pretty close on my first try. This achievement does vary based on the roaster I am using. But, the designer does interest me and I will give it another go and see what happens.
I understand the M1 decision. I hope you enjoy that experience. It will be a step up from the Behmor, that is for sure.
I do have the Fresh Roast people on my "to-do" collaboration list and will definitely mention the demo opportunity. That would be really fun. I appreciate the suggestion. It is always good to get input from viewers.
Enjoy the Roaster!
I appreciate all your videos and try to learn something from each one. Although I don’t have a Fresh Roast, I can and will plan to try and duplicate with my setup what you did in your roast. Hopefully mine will be as successful as yours!
Which roaster are you using @chuskster623 ? There will be some differences and you probably will need to make some changes. For example, a Hive user wanted to do the same thing. Here is what I said:
As far as the profile goes, you would have to make a lot of changes. The hive won't get that coffee dry in 3 mintues. You would have to use a much lower charge weight (less coffee). You would need to be really really careful with your heat management. The hive uses a lot of convection during the first 2/3 of the roast so that will be challenging to get a short profile time. My past experience with the Hive attempting shorter roast times ended in a challenging, darker than desired result because i had to pour on sho much heat to get the shorter time. That being said I didn't experiment with a lighter batch size.
Having said that, I don't think (my opinion) you need to try to aim for a 7 1/7 minute total roast time. I'm thinking a 9 minute roast with the lighter batch size and again..... being really really careful to manage heat, stay in control and then have a low ROR as you come into FC. Of course all of this still requires us to have a lower Bean Temp when it is all said and done. I'm thinking a BT on my hive with the digital display would look like 390f..... I'm more concerned about reaching FC and keeping my temp low than I am with a development time. That will all work out if I have my heat and ROR range in control during development.
Mike, I use a modified West Bend The Poppery. The heater and fan are separated. I use a variac to control the heat and a rotary switch to control the fan speed. So that the heater won’t slow the fan speed, I put the heater and fan on separate house electrical circuits. When I want to use Artisan, I attach a Mastech 6514 to transmit the bean temperature to the computer. I usually roast 113 grams which is ¼ of a pound. Largely thanks to your videos, I get very even roasts and some excellent tasting coffee.
What problems might I face if I want to emulate the basic profile that you used? I don’t think that I would have any trouble getting through the dry phase in three minutes. I usually use 102 volts during the dry phase and it usually takes me four minutes.
I know that your emphasis is on coffee roasting, but would it be possible for you to do a video on some basic cupping techniques for the home coffee roaster? I know when I make a good cup of coffee using my Aeropress, but I am at a loss to distinguish any fruity, chocolaty notes etc. You seem to have no difficulty in doing so. I know that other home coffee roasters have the same problem@@VirtualCoffeeLab
I don't think you fill face any problems but because your roasting on a completely different setup you will have to compensate your temps to follow the profile. How much heat retention your roaster has compared to mine is different. Batch size is different as well. So, following an exact profile might now work but you should get pretty close. I am interested to see if your ROR behaves the same.
Curious you state the "bean temperature" but the probe is way up to the top of the chamber. How is that the "same" or close to the beans? I have a probe sitting right where the beans are jumping.
That is a great question. I called it the bean temp because that is the probe assigned to display that temp on the graph. A big issue with bean probes for hot air roaster is the influence of hot air. Is it reading the hot air or the bean when in fact many times the beans are not huddled against the probe but flying around. Because the probe is down in the bean it is only an inch or two away from the heat source . So, it seems to me we aren't really measuring the bean temp, rather both the beans and hot air.
When I roasted on the Ikawa and the LINK air roasters their probe was suspended above the bean mass like mine. Actually, i was doing this before the Kaffeligic or LINK were made. I got the idea from the Ikawa. Both of these manufacturers have researched, experimented, etc.. and have determined their bean probe is set above the bean mass. So, you are right, it isn't a true bean temperature., but I would also say the probe in the bean mass isn't the true bean temperature either. I positioned my probe in proximity to the bean mass so that displayed temperatures which seemed to be more normalized to the type of graph I am used to seeing. I'm not saying it is right but now you know why I have chosen to do this.
I placed the Exhaust Temp probe through the bottom of the roasting chamber base about a 1/4 inch so it is just inside the base housing. This give a temp of the hotest air and helps me understand the temperature before it is influenced by the bean mass. I like my setup but it isn't necessarily the right way or only way. In the end, like the Behmor, Gene Cafe, and Fresh Roast, built in temperature readings are a good reference source but are not true bean temps. I guess I would categorize my probe setup to be similar, ie.. a good reference source.
Thanks for watching, and for your question @2005Colly.
great video! I haven't tried keeping the temp setting on a low number and adjusting only the fan speed, but based on your results here, I will now give it a try. Seems like keeping the temp constant at a relatively low setting and decreasing the fan speed as you've done here may give a more even roast, more gradual increase of the heat.
What I have been doing is starting out with temp on 1, fan 9. I gradually increase temp to 4 during the dry phase, then continue increasing the temp one number at a time all the way to temp 9 and only then do I start to decrease the fan speed. First crack usually happens at temp 9, but sometimes I have to reduce the fan speed to get to First Crack.
Hi Pima. I was doing that as well. One challenge I was experiencing using the incremental increase of temperature was the high temperatures taking place inside the roasting chamber. It caused my coffee to be a little darker and dirtier tasting than i wanted. So, i began to experiment. I wanted to achieve a pretty low moisture loss (under 12%) but I didn't want the, all to common, underdeveloped taste. I landed on this approach for my light roast and it has been a game changer for me.
I wold like to consider a similar approach with some modifications for my medium roasts. I am a huge fan of monitoring my heat temperature during the roast. This would be the ET (inlet temp) for the fresh roast. In my video i talk about keeping that ET at a max temp of under 450. So, that principle, would be applied to a larger roast weight (capacity). My assumption would be the roast will be stretched out a little longer, with humps in the ROR might be a little bigger BUT the methodology of heat/fan management would be similar. I guess that is for a future video. :-)
@@VirtualCoffeeLab thanks! I look forward to a new video of a medium roast using the SR 540. (You do all the experimentation and hard work, and we get to enjoy the benefits! Lucky us ;-) Meanwhile, I'm looking forward to trying your light roast method you've detailed in this video. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and yours!
Merry Christmas to you as well.
Thanks for the great video(s). I am expecting to get an SR800 with extension tube in the next couple of weeks as my first roaster. I was wondering if you could recommend a "foolproof" first roast process/bean to get me started on the path of success. I have watched a lot of videos, but have not found anything to address "early success" for the first time roaster. In fact it is quite overwhelming right now with all the information out there. I am hoping there is a green bean and process that may be fairly forgiving for a newbie like myself that will help to fuel my passion for coffee and roasting by produce good results the first time . FWIW I prefer to drink light roast coffee (like in your video) but would rather have a first process/bean that would likely be more successful if light roast is too challenging for the beginner. Appreciate all you do!
Hi James, thanks for subscribing and your question. I think the Fresh Roast community on Facebook will be really helpful for you as you learn about your roaster and what others are doing. You have kind of eluded to the fact that there is a lot of info out there and it is overwhelming. Honestly I would plan to buy a few pounds of cheap green coffee to experience the roasting process. Pay attention to heat and fan settings and see how they influence the color, smell and time as you roast.
Use this time to learn how to control your roaster. The most common mistake is to run full heat for most of the roast and race towards first crack. I think this video demonstrates you don't need to be at power 9. Having said that, I realize there is more than one way to roast coffee so I am not saying this is the right way. You should learn about basic roasting concepts including color change (the dry event), First Crack, get to understand how the smell changes during the roasting process and how that correlates with your roasting phases and overall progress. Logging your roasts is always a good idea so you can look back at our notes and see what you might change for the next roast.
So, what do I recommend for a fullproof first roast? Wow, I think you should buy a high density bean. So, high altitude, washed coffee from central america would be a good start. I am a fan of Guatemalan coffee. Once you get a dozen roasts under your belt then maybe consider roasting a different coffee. I would not buy a variety pack because different coffees will roast a little different and you want to learn how the changes you make to your power and air will impact the cup....
I would use the same amount of coffee each time you roast. So, roast 150 grams or whatever you decide and then start with the recipe I shared in this video. Because you are using the SR800, it might perform differently than my SR540. That means you will have to make adjustments to figure it out. See/compare how your roasting event times are different than mine and make adjustments. Also compare roast levels and see if the color and moisture loss are where you want to be for your own personal preferences. Start with this and then come back to this message thread you started and let me know what happens. I will be glad to respond. Don't jump into Artisan really soon. Learn to control your roaster first.
Was that helpful?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Yes, that was very helpful! Thank you! I have been kind of binge watching your videos and have learned a lot already without even having my roaster yet. While I tend to be technical with regards to, well, everything, I appreciate your advice to keep it simple at first. I can easily see myself buying thermocouple probes and using Artisan down the way, but don't want to get "paralysis of analysis" out of the gate. Just want to have fun roasting. You have shown me that I can still get good roasts without all the tech and learning to see, smell and taste the roast should come first. I appreciate your willingness to help.
Sonds good James. Let me know how it goes!
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Per your recommendation, I ordered a washed guatemalen (from Sweet Maria's). I tried my first roast on the SR800 with extension tube a few days ago. It took longer than I expected because I broke the glass roasting chamber trying to insert the extension with all three rubber bands, so I had to order a new one (I was so bummed). For those new to the extension, do not force fit it if it is super tight with all three bands like I did. I removed one of the bands when I got the new chamber, and though a little loose at the bottom, it seems to work fine. I really did not do a good job documenting my first roast and really have no idea what I am doing yet, but am am super happy with how my first roast turned out! It was comparable to some of the "professional" roasts I have been buying for years, hopefully this was not just a lucky first roast. I am going to try using Artisan next, since I think it will really help with documenting my roasts and getting some level of repeatability. So thanks again for your videos, they really helped, and I am well on my way now!
Hi James, I'm sorry to hear about your extension tube woes. I broke my roasting chamber taking the tube out. It is a fragile piece of glass. I'm glad you had a successful roast. Generally speaking, you will want to stick with the higher elevation coffees for this type of roast profile here in the video. I would chart your roasts manually , writing down the time and temperature just for the experience before you go down the artisan path. It will be a good experience for you. Charting can also help you "document" your roasts and then go back and use them for future roasts.. I'm looking forward to hear more about your Fresh Roast experience!
Amazing, I would like to build a similar roaster here in Europe. Can you use your experiences for drum roasting also? Did you apply the probes without any instructions? Are you familiar with cafelogic also? I would like to have a sample roaster for evaluating new greens without big losses.
He’ll Erhard. The Fresh Roast could be used as a sample roaster. It will not be a direct profile transfer to the larger machine. It will help you evaluate a coffee for purchase. You can make a homemade air roasting system but for your purposes this might be a quicker and simpler method. Probe placement was based on several factors including;
Videos on TH-cam
Personal experience
Design concepts from the IKAWA
I am familiar with the kaffelogic and the LINK roaster. Both are good roaster options but you pay more.
I'm still learning to roast with the Nuvo hand roaster, getting pretty good results (though not consistent yet, unfortunately, but I've made a few roasts that I consider successful)
I'm thinking of upgrading soon, either to a Hive, or something that doesn't require a gas stove. This Fresh Roast looks pretty nice so I might look into that!
I was wondering, what do you use for brewing? I have an Italian coffee maker, but I'd like to be sure I get the best out of my coffee with this kind of brewer...
Thanks for your message, for watching, and being a subscriber. The fresh roast is a good option.
With regard to brewing, I use the Kalita, clever dripper, and Aeropress. I have brewed most of my coffee on the Kalita single serve for the past year and have been very happy. I am also really excited with some of my brews using the aeropress. Always juicy and not complicated to use.
Thanks for your answer! I didn't know any of these brewers, they all look nice!
Yep. There are plenty of videos on youtube that show how to use them. There are others like the switch, v60, chemex, and more. It is a very big rabbit hole.
Hi Love the videos and info. I'm using Artisan on a mac. My data screen looks very different than yours. How can I update mine to read the same data? Thank You!
Hi Justin. Hmm, are you talking about the buttons? Are you roasting with a fresh roast? What are you using to bridge the probes to artisan?
Greetings from Ecuador, I have a question about the equipment you use. How long is the useful life of this toaster under normal conditions? thank you
“Normal conditions”, is kind of subjective. Doing 2-3 roasts per week, this roaster should last several years or longer. If you roast dark that could possibly shorten the life but I have no data to support that.
It is a good quality roaster.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab IT IS POSSIBLE TO USE A POWER INVERTER AND A CAR BATTERY WITH THIS EQUIPMENT, TO MAKE IT PORTABLE TO GO TO A FARM
I don't know. I would suggest you contact the manufacturer www.homeroastingsupplies.com/
FR540 and live tanzanian peaberry. 3 oz of beans. Full power and fan speed for first minute. Step down to fan speed 8 after 2nd minute. Next I step down to fan speed 6 or 7 fan speed as i want the temp to rise to 435. Six and a half minutes until cooling phase. This produces a light to medium roast.
Hi Elkstalker, thanks for sharing how you roast light. The Tanzanian peaberry is a really dense bean. I bet it is really tasty. Are you using an extension tube?
I assume you have to drill holes through the chaff collector for the probes how did you determine where and the size? Are they fairly snug holes or loose fitting? If loose is there much heat loss? Thanks for using the Fresh Roast once again, I've been using mine for a little over a year and everything is pretty much coming out a medium roast. Wanted to change, this is giving me new ideas. Thanks!
Hello Marc, yea, drill holes in the top, through that super fine screen. Before drilling I would get the probes first and test all of your connections to make sure everything works. Once you are all set you will drill 2 holes. I positioned my holes so the shorter BT probe is near the center of the lid. The ET (long probe) is placed somewhere around the 10 oclock position if you are facing the roaster and the hole should be positioned so when it goes down into the tube, it reaches the metal bottom of the roasting chamber and goes in one of the small holes. IMPORTANT.... notice in my video at 0:07 the position of the holes in my lid. Also notice at 2:36 I show the bottom of the roasting chamber and if you look carefully you will notice how far the probe sticks through the bottom. It is only like an 1/8th of an inch. You don't want to have the probe stick down too far. I'm not sure what is down there (fan blades or heating element.... I don't want you to damage your roaster so be careful.
As far as the holes go, NOTICE at 2:29 the probe has a "shoulder". There is a thicker part of the probe at the base of the metal (not the wire) near my hand. Then it gets a little smaller/narrower. I drilled my holes so the narrow part fits through but with a little pressure the thicker part kind of snugs and stops as it goes into the hole. This allows the probe to stay in position. You could put some metal clamps at the top of the probe to keep them in position if you want.
I hope my response has been helpful. Happy Roasting!
Dave I purchased the thermocouplers and phidget you put in the description, I'm having difficulty with #1 installing the probes to the phidget; what goes to what terminal, #2 In Artisan it doesn't list the 1048_2 Only lists 1048 4xTC 01. Any help you could provide would be much appreciated
Hi Mark. If you look at 2:27 in this video you will see how to connect. The terminals are named 4,G,3,G,2,G,1,G,0,G. and the red terminals connect to the numbers. So, 1=red wire and G=black wire for each probe. You will probably need to install the phidget driver/software. Then reboot your computer, go into artisan, select Device>Machine? Phidget (select version) and you should be all set. Now, restart artisan, click the "On" button and then wait to see if the BT and ET display a temp. If yes, put your hand on the end of one of the probes and see if the temperature changes in Artisan. This will tell you if you connected the correct wires (ET/BT). If you didn't connect the BT to the BT on the Phiget, then you can either swap the wires OR i think you can go into artisan to swap the assignments.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Thx I appreciate the help!!
Sry about the name was watching Capt coffee videos also 🥴
Hey nice video! I've been watching you for some time now. I've a fr800 with extension tube and artisan. Where did you get those settings/buttons for artisan?
I've been using this set up a little over a year and have tried so many approaches to roastes. Haven't tried that one. So greatful for your content.
Cheers, Troy
Hi Troy. Thanks for watching and for being a subscriber. I'm glad my videos have been helpful to you. You can create buttons in artisan settings. At some point I plan to share my artisan log files, aset files, and recipes in a membership-type feature (maybe Patreon). I've got a lot of roasts and tips i can share. I'm not sure if that would interest any of my channel watchers.
Thanks for your comments, Troy. Have a great week roasting!
Sorry for the selfish semi off-topic but can a similar Nordic roast be achieved with the Hive by dropping around 1:00-1:10 after crack?
Hi Cory. As far as the profile goes, you would have to make a lot of changes. The hive won't get that coffee dry in 3 mintues. You would have to use a much lower charge weight (less coffee). You would need to be really really careful with your heat management. The hive uses a lot of convection during the first 2/3 of the roast so that will be challenging to get a short profile time. My past experience with the Hive attempting shorter roast times ended in a challenging, darker than desired result because i had to pour on sho much heat to get the shorter time. That being said I didn't experiment with a lighter batch size.
Having said that, I don't think (my opinion) you need to try to aim for a 7 1/7 minute total roast time. I'm thinking a 9 minute roast with the lighter batch size and again..... being really really careful to manage heat, stay in control and then have a low ROR as you come into FC. Of course all of this still requires us to have a lower Bean Temp when it is all said and done. I'm thinking a BT on my hive with the digital display would look like 390f..... I'm more concerned about reaching FC and keeping my temp low than I am with a development time. That will all work out if I have my heat and ROR range in control during development.
What do you think?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Thank you, I'm going to give this a try when my hive gets here - not sure if you're interested in it but would love to see a video on approaching profiling light roasts on the Hive!
It is on my list of videos Corey. I can't promise when I would get to it but I will eventually. In the mean time, please share your progress as you experiment with the Hive. I would really appreciate that.
You ever try any homemade roasters?
Send me your recommended setup and I will give it a try.
I heard once that a constant fan speed during a roast is preferable so I stopped using it to influence heat
Hi Alec, thanks for watching. Yea, I've done that a lot. I hear something and then follow the advice. Sometimes it is helpful BUT I realize that I don't really know the source of the suggestion and maybe, just maybe, it is someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. That is why i like to experiment. Many of my experiments are confirmations, but many are nice surprises.
I think the fan has a more gentle transition when stepping up or down compared to the power setting. If you are using artisan you can test it for yourself to see. My experience in the past was a constant toggle back and forth between power settings to try and maintain a decent declining ROR. In many of my other roasting experiences I have noticed a "natural curve" that happens when power settings remain constant. You can see that clearly taking place here in this video as you watch the ET after I stop changing my fan. In the case of this roast, the bean mass is influencing the temperatures. Not only are the beans getting hotter but the mass is holding in heat as i lower the fan speed. Because the beans are getting lighter i can lower the fan setting and i still get decent bean movement BUT I think the beans are not lofting as much on the underside of the mass and that is causing the beans to block more of the air, allowing the temperature of the air to increase. I could be totally wrong about this but that is the impression i am getting when i look at the ET for this roast.
What do you think?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab agreed! I believe that advice was from Raos roasting book, but that was also for a drum roaster. With your tube roaster, the air plays an additional role!
I attended one of Rao's workshops while at the SCA this past April. One of my take-aways was his focus on airflow. He uses an IMF roaster and even though it is a drum roaster, it uses air in a way most other drum roasters don't. The heat box is outside of the drum area and hot air is used to heat the roasting environment. They use so much air the beans are flying everywhere. So, one of the things he recommended was to consider using a constant rate of airflow. I have been using that technique for my drum roasting since then and it has really helped me with my consistency. Unfortunately it doesn't help with the fresh roast but I thought I would mention the importance of airflow for drum roasting. Even though we are talking about two different roasting universes so to speak, I do believe that finding the right heat setting (fixed) to land on and then combine that with the needed airflow steps during the roast is the way to go, and based on all of the variables like charge weight, density, end temps, etc... we make the necessary adjustments.
Helpful. I’m using an older SR500 with extension tube. No temperature only color, time and smell. I’m still figuring it out. Have you tried the skywalker? Love to see a review of that system.
Why did you roast on power 4? I see in some videos roasting at 4-6, in others - at 9. Somebody said you must use 9 to make the process as quick as possible, otherwise the beans are baked rather than roasted.
Hmm, my coffee surely didn't taste baked. It was light and fruity and I was really pleased with the result. I'm not going to be critical of other roasting methods Michael. There are different roasting approaches and my way is not the only way to roast. The fan plays a huge role in the temperature and speed of the roast, not just the power settings. So, let me share why I did what I did.
First, one goal in my roast was to get a light roast.
Second, I wanted to use artisan so people could see the impact of my temperature choices.
Third, I wanted people to see it is possible to have a nice descending rate of rise. Some people live and breathe on this point. Others say it isn't possible with the fresh roast.
In this video, I did start with 4. You saw the result of increased temperatures and my descending rate of rise. I hit dry in three minutes and the coffee roasted completely in seven minutes and thirty seconds. That is not a short roast and not a long roast. So, how could I do this? How could I roast at a power setting of 4, while others are roasting at a power of 9?
1. Batch size. The more coffee you put in the roaster, the hotter the temps are because you are blocking the heat with all of those beans. So, you can use batch size to help you find the right temperatures and times for your roast. See my batch-size video for more details on this.
2. Fan Speed. I made very important fan adjustments that helped to promote higher temperatures. This is what I was talking about earlier. By lowering the fan, I am actually increasing heat because there isn't as much loft in the beans.
3. You will notice I didn't make any adjustments to the fan or heat after the dry event. I allowed the natural curve to progress. Temperature increases continued to slow down (but they were still increasing) which helped give me that nice descending ror.
I think I explained in more detail why I did what I did in my video but the comments I typed above kind of summarize my approach.
Are you roasting on a fresh roast? Are you happy with your results? Don't always believe what other people tell you, including me. I would encourage you to try different approaches. I think learning about the basic concepts of roasting is a game-changer. My new video series I am doing right now on the "Profile" will help answer more about why I take the approach I do in my videos. Let me know your thoughts.
Were my comments helpful? Let me know if you have more questions about this. I will be glad to try and answer them. Thanks for watching and for asking your great question..
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Yeah, apparently the answer is in the size of the batch. I am putting 200gr in SR800 and want to buy an extension tube for 340gr.
Did I miss something? What was your brewing process for this roast?
I did mention this when I recorded BUT it was mistakenly edited out. Honestly, my videos are about an hour long and I edit them to be as lean as possible. Sorry about the edit oversight. I used the Stainless Steel Kalita with my Fellows grinder and kettle. 21 grams of coffee to 350 grams of hot water at about 204f. Total draw time was about three minutes and forty seconds.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab No worries! I kind of figured you were doing a pourover which to me does lend to a cleaner cup.
I love your videos,,,anything in pipeline ? Ken
Hi Ken...... Yes, I took a little break. Going to be uploading a short video sharing some of my plans for this year and also asking for topic suggestions. The video should go live within the hour.
Thanks,we all look forward to your videos, you are an excellent teacher
So if a person was going to roast 250 grams, would you use that same profile or start less heat?
Richard, you mean roasting 250 grams with the same roaster and same coffee? Hmmm, not sure. I would have to experiment. I would say I may need to increase my heat a little, so I would experiment with a heat setting of 5 first and possibly use a fan setting of 8 to start. Then see if that would get my coffee dry in that 3 minute range. I don't know what changes would be required for my fan steps BUT I think the larger mass of coffee might require me to make another fan adjustment later into the roast just before first crack..... BUT I don't know for sure. I would need to experiment with that. Why don't you give it a try and see what happens. I would be interested to hear the results.
Are you using artisan?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab no artisan, just standard temps and manual steps on a app i use. . I roast slower and lower at first usually, but I'll give a try .
If you have the same roaster, without artisan you should be able to follow my recipe in the video and get close, assuming your beans are similar and you use the same batch size. I would try that first before you jump to the 250. Otherwise, just go for it and see what happens.
I know you own at least one drum roaster with a tryer. Do you miss not having aroma as a cue to where the roast is?
Thanks for watching and for being a subscriber! I am able to sniff near the top of the chaff collector to get an idea of what is going on BUT you are right, it isn't the same as a trier. I guess the trade off is great bean movement for an even roast AND amazing visibility to help. Overall not being able to smell as much hasn't been a big problem. I still have sound, color, bean size AND artisan to help provide enough info to maintain control and know when to end the roast.
Do you ever experience tipping when using the fresh roast?
I have experienced tipping with the fresh roast. It's been a long time, but early on i was applying too much heat. How much coffee are you roasting per batch (sr540 or 800?) and how long does it take your coffee to dry?
@VirtualCoffeeLab I'm using 150 grams with the 540 and extension tube. Usually about 3 to 3.5 mins to dry and around 6 to 6.5 mins to 1st crack. It's happening pretty much every roast. It doesn't seem to matter what coffee I use. Most roasts are tasting good but I wonder if they could be better.
OK, so 3 minutes might be a little fast to yellow but as you can see it my video, I hit dry at 3 minutes as well. I'm roasting with High density coffee. If you are roasting with Brazilian, some Indonesian type coffee then this could be the issue. You said "every coffee you roast" but you didn't say what the density is. medium and lower density coffee need to be more gentle with the heat upfront to avoid this. What are your heat settings during your roast? As you can see here, I'm at a 4.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I have roasted a variety of beans. Ethiopia, kenya, Rwanda, Guatemala, Colombia, Nicaragua, Costa Rica,. They were mostly washed but a couple dry process and an Indonesian.
0:00 F9 P1
2:00 F8 P4
3:30 F6 P5
5:00 F5 P5
That usually gets me to 1st crack around 6:00. Is that too fast?
Thanks for sharing your settings. The good news is you are enjoying your coffee. We didn't really talk about roast level. If you are going light, like I am here in this video I would change your dry phase approach. It might lengthen the time some but it won't really impact the cup. Once color change begins is where you need to really make sure you have good momentum. In your case you do. I would start my power at P2 and then transition to P3 at the 2 minute mark and then at 3 minutes move to P5 and see how that impacts the roasting defects. It will lengthen your dry phase but don't worry about that. Once you get to dry (whatever that time is) aim for about 3 minutes and 30 seconds for your middle phase. Then for development (first crack to end of roast) spend a1 minute to 1 minute and 30 seconds before dropping the coffee. Again, I don't know your preferred roast level. Too much heat up front is likely what is causing your tipping. the more feathered approach to the heat during dry should help.
Let me know what you think and if you try it, please let me know if it helped.
First and foremost: Shoot for 12.5 to 12.7% W/L and hide that coffee in the cabinet for 10 days and you will be in love. Light roast on a fluid bed takes longer to develop than drum-roasted beans. I roast on a SR800 w ext tube and I roast light most of the time. I have three different Ethiopian greens in the cabinet as I type. It's my staple. Your video was very interesting and it's a little different from how I roast light, but not much. I WILL be trying your way next roasting session after I figure out some variables such as 200g load. I have been starting at 9/1 and stepping my power up every 20 sec until I reach about 8 or 9 depending on the bean. I start dropping fan around 1:30 to 8 then fan 7 around 1:45 then fan 6 around 2:00. My plan is to make ALL adjustments by DE or very shortly after, but you have to have the heat in there if you are going to coast. I aim for 3:00 to 3:15 for DE and 1C around 6:30 so you see how similar our profiles are. I, like you, aim for around 7:30 drop, but I go by % development in Artisan to achieve my 12.5 - 12.7% W/L. Once again I will try your profile next and expect really good results. Your beans hit a point where they were what I call "slogging". I know I've mentioned this before but I'll say it one more time. If you put something about 5/8 inch thick under the front arc of the roaster your beans will circulate better and your roast will be more even. Final word......Great job as usual. One more thing, I do not increase power and decrease fan at the same time. Definitely stagger those adjustments.
Mike, thanks for sharing your roasting experiences with me. Honestly I did wait about 4 days for the coffee to rest BUT once that came the coffee didn't last long. It was that good. Probably some of the best ethiopian washed I have had in a long time AND I can repeat.... !!!
The Sr800 with Rao tube really holds in the heat. There will be some differences but if you use artisan, watch that ET because it really helped show me what was happening with my target peak temps.... I have found that changing the power setting on the Fresh Roast mid roast really impacts the curve. I've tried stepping power and then soon after, the fan but i end up toggling the power during my roast. This roast (as you say) was hands off just after DE with a nice decent with power left at 4 all the way through.
I think I might try the exact same user inputs and using 180 grams except change my power from a 4 to a 5 during dry. Then watch my ET temp and adjust power once right after DE and again, let it naturally work through the rest of the roast.
I had really nice modeling on the bean (the wrinkles). I could try and go a little longer to see what it taste like BUT that was a golden cup. I'm not sure if could get much better (for me).
What is your ROR from first crack to drop? Just curious.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab First, I did not know that an SR roaster could produce such a smooth ROR until I started roasting in a manner that is VERY similar to how your video just showed. We are on what is one of the best tracks to using these roasters to get the best out of the coffee. Do me this one favor. Put back enough beans for one cup of coffee for ten days (20 to 25 grams or whatever you grind). To answer your question, my ROR is in single digits during the development phase. Sometimes high single digits and depending on how long I stretch it out sometimes in the low single digits. I aim for a W/L between 13% to 15% with my Central & South American beans and it can get around 5 or so. I still plan my roasting for shelving my beans for ten days though! ........................................20 to 25 grams X 10 days = gamechanger😁I'll shut up now.
Thanks Mike. I will try the 10 day storage. I'm soooo happy wth the coffee that I'm not sure I want to go to 12.5, but for the sake of experimenting and serendipity and since you are trying my profile, I will give it a go AND even raise the front arc. I love having my ROR be in the "FUN ZONE" during development (which is in the single digits). Thanks for sharing!
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I performed two roasts today using your "Nordic Style" profile. Interestingly, I was roasting a Honduran bean and wanted a more medium roast. It worked out to be an excellent roast. They were each 230g loads in the FR extension tube. I had a one pound bag that was slightly over so hence the heavy half pound charge. These were two of the smoothest roasts I have done. The Artisan profiles are almost a mirror. I would send you these excellent profiles if you were interested. I can't wait to try them even though you know how long I will wait. Thanks for showing me a new way to successfully roast my coffee. This profile has a lot of versatility. You are "The Man".
Nice Job Mike. Yea, the Honduran is probably a larger bean and less dense than the ethiopian I did in my roast. Density and Charge weight will cause the profile to shift and give slightly different results. This is where testing comes in. Usually, on a drum roaster, a larger charge weight will slow the roast down, stretching it out. Air roasters, depending on their design, can behave differently. What was your total roast time for these two roasts?
I would be interested to see what your 180 gram roast looks like compared to the 230. If you go to my channel homepage and the channel description can be expanded. There you will find a link to email me the two profiles. It might be bet to send me a screenshot of each profile but if you want to send the alog files you can do that too. Whatever is easier for you. Thanks.
Feedback: For first-time viewers, there is no knowledge of Artisan software and Phiget probe install, no knowledge of ROR curves, no knowledge of why you held the temperature steady while managing the fan speed - in contrast to many other videos. your vast experience in roasting with drums lends itself to what you say, but a beginner is already lost from the get-go as to what is going on. Now they are searching for roasting profiles even though the vast majority by far are for drum roasters. It's a good start, but I think you got into the weeds very fast. Just saying.
Thank you for your feedback, Robert. I really do appreciate it. I’ll try to be more inclusive for future videos. It’s pretty challenging because of the broad experience level of my audience. I know that my next video will be a little more advanced as well. I have more intro roasting videos planned.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and valuable feedback.