The Artisan log file for this roast is available for free at my BuyMeACoffee site buymeacoffee.com/virtualcoffeelab/e/286061 I mistakenly placed the wrong artisan file in the BuyMeACoffee link when I first made it available. If you already downloaded the file, it should be names: 24-08-04_ethiopian-400g-190c-194c.alog You can download the file for free here: buymeacoffee.com/virtualcoffeelab/e/286061 Sorry for the confusion.
Thank you.. even though I’ve been roasting off and on for >20 years, I am learning an enormous amount watching these. I developed a taste for lighter roasts, but I couldn’t really roast with a profile (varying temp or air) on my old original Hottop and recently acquired a Cormorant roaster to play with.. it’s been an amazing change in capability and learning what how different profiles affect taste has been wonderful.
I'm an engineer who doesn't even own a roaster, but have recently fallen down the espresso and coffee roasting rabbit holes so I read and watch everything I can find. I have fallen in love with the Kaleido M10 roaster and watched your entire playlist. Everything in this run came out nicely, but it's difficult for me to see how to know how to plan for what you did beforehand. As an engineer, I see Artisan graphs and the talk of rate of rise, RoR, and my mind starts racing to understand how I'd plan to do something like what you did. I came up with a mathematical way of determining the "optimal" RoR path to drop I'd like to share. I say optimal in quotes because I solve it meeting certain requirements, but that doesn't mean it'll produce the optimal cup. I was able to use the fact that Kaleido roasters seem to reach the peak RoR at 2 minutes (other TH-camr runs as well all seemed to satisfy this) and splitting the desired RoR path into two parts. Once we know the peak RoR value and the BT at that time, I generate a desired RoR path, import it into Artisan and demonstrate showing as a background on your roast. I also show how to calculate the desired RoR path during a run and have a targeted RoR and BT to shoot for during the initial run with a new type of bean. I wrote it up as a Google Doc I can share with you if there's some way of getting me your email address. Let me know if you'd like to take a look. If this looks promising to you, I hope you can explain it to others in the simple and easy to understand way characteristic of your videos.
Hi Jeff. I do respect the engineering mind you have. I understand your need to understand the math behind the ROR line. You can send me a message at the virtual coffee lab facebook page. On my youtube channel description there is a link that shows "more links". Clicking on that will give you the link to the facebook page where you can message me. Without knowing what your sheet says, I wanted to share why it isn't always a good idea to rely on something like this to roast specialty coffee. We're roasting an agricultural product that is unique, from one coffee to the next. These differences can benefit from different approaches to the roast profile. Total roast time, development time, ending temperatures, increase airflow, and so much more. I'm glad you are digging deep. The sheet may help you. But, I would encourage you to focus on understanding how the coffee bean changes over time as we apply heat. Using our sense of smell, sight, and sound, we can use this information to help lead us through the roasting process, without a graph, to roast some great coffee. The Kaleido is a fully capable machine that can produce some great coffee, but to generate a profile in artisan to have the machine follow won't go as you planned. When comparing my video and temperatures to some other roasters video, you will see some similarities in the approach BUT the temperatures will not be the same. I'm not trying to say you are wrong, but I would encourage you to focus on and experience the basics before you jump right into artisan. It will really help you in the long term. Thanks for sharing your ideas. I'm looking forward to seeing your google sheet.
Hi Jeff. Thanks again for reaching out and for sharing your sheet. I've read your thinking process. You are a mathematician for sure. I'm not strong in math unfortunately. It seems I don't have that gift. Here are my thoughts. First, Scott Rao's "roasters companion" book introduces some interesting concepts. I have been using many of them as I learn to be a better roaster. Many people have used his approach to roast coffee. There are other coffee professionals who do not hold to that theory. Morton Munchow (Coffee Mind) has conducted some blind taste tests to determine if the constantly declining ROR theory can be validated. Based on his findings, the theory can't be validated. That isn't to say it isn't true, but through the tests conducted, about 75% of the blind taste testers from all walks of life were not able to discern the differences. They were able to taste the difference in color. It is a fascinating study. coffee-mind.com/why-rate-of-rise-is-a-bad-reference-point/ So, what do we do with Rate of Rise? Is it helpful? It is absolutely helpful for me. I use ROR to control my roast progression. It is a visual cue to my momentum and where I want that momentum to be during the roast process. I use ROR to help me estimate my roast speed during each of the phases. Does it have to be perfect? No, in my experience, there are times when I want to modify my ROR curve so I can lengthen or shorten the amount of time during the middle phase or the development phase. This will alow me to craft the flavors and acidity of the coffee to my desired flavor profile. How and why do I do this? I think that was your initial question. I ask myself that question all the time. "How do I decide how to roast a particular coffee"? The short answer is the bean. The bean gives me an idea of my approach. The cupping info tells me some of what I can expect the flavor capabilities to be for that bean. The farm information including the altitude, process, origin, and more help me know how I will manage my heat throughout the roast. Ultimately it helps me determine the roast level I want this coffee to reach. These are all basic concepts I have been sharing in my profile series as well as my newest "Roasting 101" series. So, for me, there is no single formula to do this. At least this is where my current mindset is. Realistically, I take this approach to all of the different coffee I roast. Many times I find that I need to change my profile to address the "unexpected" result. I can have all the data in the world to help me but the in the end, I taste the result and then decide to make changes to my ending temperature, time spent in development or the browning phase, or maybe decide my total roast time needs to be shorter or longer. My equipment is different than the person I bought the coffee from or the export company that cupped the coffee and scored it. I appreciate the math and the passion that drives your desire to figure this out. Unfortunately, for me it isn't a math equation (that I could understand) that will help me roast. It is experience as well as trial & error along with tasting the coffee that will help me identify the best profile for my tastes. I think this video addresses some of that I'm talking about - th-cam.com/video/GZQejHVQoYM/w-d-xo.html And this video addresses how there are time when I don't always have a straight descending ROR and I change the angle of descent - th-cam.com/video/ISh4OMHt--M/w-d-xo.htmlsi=bMdnz-YCWjMZ9jDt&t=1023 (I qued this to the exact point where I explain this. I hope my response was helpful. I do appreciate your thinking process and taking time to share your understanding of this Jeff. I would encourage you to listen to the coffee mind podcast episode found on the link I provided above. Also, I would encourage you to give roasting a try. Each time I roasted coffee I learned something. While I did and still do occasionally ruin some roasts, I use that as a learning opportunity. 🙂
Thanks for the response and for taking a look. I'm planning a move to Portugal in the somewhat near term, so I'm holding off purchasing a roaster until then. With time I'm sure I'll get a better feel for the roasting process and perhaps someday better understand the way you tweak the profile mid roast. You have quite the talent for it. On an unrelated note, I just wanted to thank you for your passion. It's contagious and it's very clear that your channel is all about teaching. It's not about promoting things to get free stuff like many other coffee TH-camrs.
Excellent roasting video on the Kaleido. I’ve been roasting about 10 years, first with the Fresh Roast and then with the Gene. Ordered a Kaleido M2 as my next roaster to get more quality roasted beans for my home brew. You have took the time to explain how these profiles affect the flavor of the coffee beans and I thank you for this.
After experience with all of those roasters - which would you suggest for a first time roaster? (But 10+ year “veteran” for extremely high quality coffee and brewing)
@@billfrigo7602 I would start with a Gene Cafe roaster. They are easy to operate and you can get a decent roast from most green beans. Ventilation is the biggest factor for me (yes there will be smoke). The chaff collector fits onto an aluminum flexible dryer duct that can be positioned near an open window. I roast in my basement normally and have used the garage during warmer months.
My M1 is coming in this week(!) and I’m looking forward to trying to replicate roast. As I’m waiting for it to come in, I’ve been binge watching videos on roasting and I’m starting to realize how well controlled this roast was! I’m just hoping I can get to this level of consistency!
Hi Skytanks, thanks for watching. Congratulations on your new M1 roaster. That is exciting! If you want to replicate this roast you will need to ignore my temperatures and use the necessary temperatures on your roaster. My readings won't be the same as yours. How do you do this? First, try matching the coffee roasting event times. You will need to figure out the best charge temperature and power setting to get your coffee to the dry event at the same time as my roast. Our temperatures might read differently but color doesn't lie. Do the same thing for the first crack event and the drop event. You will do this by managing your power setting to allow your temperature increase rate to slow down during the middle phase and the development phase. Does this make sense? Your temperatures will read differently than mine because of the probe depth, different roaster design, and other variables. Just trust me on this and focus on the event times and the color of the coffee rather than temperatures. Let me know how it goes!
Nice. Thats exciting. I've roasted on both machines and you will get good results with both. Aillio has a new version out that is more powerful than the previous - FYI
That’s amazing perfect timing. I’m going to try down load the file and if I can get it loaded up. Another great video and very helpful. My roasts never really come out according to my plan but a do have a section in my log for a plan and I do one up for every roast. I find that the times Artisan say are not all that accurate but maybe I need to enter more info into my roast? Nice job and thanks.
They're not all like that Edward. Occasionally it all goes wrong. This was a delicious coffee. The artisan predictor that appears for dry and fc is a moving target. As your ror declines the time should get longer. Are your actual event times much different than what artisan says?
Watched this one and the other video of how to make a plan. It's amazing to see how you planned ahead and executed beautifully. It is definitely the way to roast a good coffee. The question I have is how you determine those milestone parameters. You mentioned the tasting notes, density of the bean, etc. But how do you correlate the information and come up with those milestone values? Hope you could produce another educational video to talk about it. Thank you!
Thanks for your comment and for watching. Not all of my roasts are beautifully executed. Some are complete disasters and I try to look at those as learning experiences. I'm able to hit the milesone's in my roasting plan because I have roasted close to 200 roasts on this M10 machine. I am very familiar with the necessary charge temperature and weight require to run a roast like that. When I roast a new coffee, I try and use a similar type of coffee variety, density, and process as a reference. Then I will roast that plan and tween as necessary. I think your question about "how to correlate information and determine the milestones" is really good. I kind of addressed this in the video. Because I wanted a light roast and the tasting notes seemed to be on the delicate side (meaning they might not work with a darker roast) , i determine my total roast time and the drop temp. I determine the middle phase time based on several things including how focused I want the acidity to be. I don't have a better way to express this AND it is my opinion, not a rule. I have a range of time I generally stick with for the middle phase. I like roasts that have 3 - 4 1/2 minutes in the browning phase. This can vary if I am using an air roaster or really small batches. But generally for batches of 400-1k I am in that range. For that particular coffee being roasted, the notes will change from the light bright notes to more darker muted notes in that span of time. I could roast the same coffee with a 3 minute middle phase and a 1 minute 15 second development and another with a 4 minute middle phase and a 1 minute 15 second development and the coffee will have different tasting notes. So, depending on the notes I want I will manipulate the time in that phase. The browning phase is the same but different. I use the development phase to tame down acidity. The longer the development, the less acidity and definition in the notes and the more roasty it will be. I don't know if any of that makes sense but that is my thought process. Because I am familiar with the roaster and coffee I have a pretty good idea of my charge temp, drop temp need to be and from there i figure all the other parameters like total roast time and then the browning phase time. Oh, one more thing. I've been using a general approach for development time based on roast level. The lighter the roast the shorter the development time. Light Roasts about 1 minute or as long as 1 1/2 minutes depending on the bean Medium Roasts about 1 1/2 - 2 minutes depending on the bean Darker roasts about 2 - 3 minutes depending on the bean
@@VirtualCoffeeLab thank you so much for your detailed response. It makes sense to me now that I need to understand my roaster’s characteristics so I can make a better estimate for a given bean, where I have the experiences with the similar beans. The thing I didn’t do is to measure the density of the beans. That contributes the length of time of each milestone.
This video is golden! I've been waiting for something like this on the M10 for such a long time😊. Your content is so good and down to earth. I have yet to watch an unhelpful video...and I don't even own most of your equipment 😂 2 questions: 1) Why such a small charge weight and 2) how would you envision the roast plan may change for an Ethiopian natural?
Thanks for your encouraging comments. Charge weight is what allowed me to roast that profile. If I would have loaded up the roaster with beans, I never would have been able to get the peak ROR necessary to complete the roast in under 9 minutes. I generally roast light roasts at about 400 grams, medium roasts around 600-800 grams, and darker roasts will be 800 +. Now, that is a really general statement and there are exceptions. I could roast dark with a 400 gram roast and it would be longer than 9 minutes. I did a video about how batch size will influence a roast profile. In that video, I used the fresh roast coffee roaster and did 2 different batches with different charge weights. All other settings remained the same. The results will be different with your drum roaster than the air roaster. I would encourage you to experiment with two roasts and change the batch size by 15-20%. See the video here. th-cam.com/video/QrNd0L1o8Co/w-d-xo.html Regarding the Ethiopian natural, I would probably use a lower charge temperature compared to the washed. So, instead of 190c, I might use 180c. I'm guessing. naturals seem to take on heat quicker than washed beans.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Makes since. I'll give the experiment a try. Just an FYI, not sure if I'm doing something wrong but they profile on your buy me a coffee sight doesn't quite match the one in the video. The drop temps are off.
Matt, thanks for telling me about the profile. I uploaded the wrong one. Oops. I have corrected that and the correct file is now available for download. The file name should be 24-08-04_ethiopian-400g-190c-194c.alog Sorry for the confusion.
Thank you for the in-depth parameters for light roasting, I'm so glad i found your channel. Quick question about your Kaleido setup, is your vent just gravity fed outside, or do you use an inline booster fan? Cheers!
Hi Paul. No booster fan. The Kaleido fan moves the air through the vent . I've been using this method with the kaleido for almost a year and a half with no issues. I roast about 4 batches per week.
i'm working on it. I borrowed a friends Bullet to make the couple of bullet videos I did a while ago. I've been talking with the manufacturer about using one for some videos. Hopefully we will see something in the coming months.
Hi Mike! Awesome walk through with the new M10 roasting these fruit forward Ethiopean beans! Is there any where in your archive of videos that you share about Artisan settings? I can't seem to get the same smooth looking ROR curve like you have, it's all choppy with spikes up and down. I know it's about the balance between probe sensitivity and smoothing, but please share the ballpark settings that are useable and helpful to us home roasters. Many thanks in advance and keep up the good work!
Hello Tuan. Thanks for watching and your encouraging words. I believe I am using the default settings that come with the M10 artisan config. I took a quick look at my Config > Curves > Filters and smooth curves is set to 5. ET and BT smoothing is set to 6.
Thanks for the great videos. I've fallen in love with the Kaleido and am considering it as my first roaster. I'm a bit confused by the drop temperature you chose, 194 C in your plan. According to Using Sight to Determine Degree of Roast on Sweet Maria's, first crack begins at 401 F or 205 C. You're first crack occurred at 190 C or 374 F. Is the difference in temperatures due to where Kaleido places the probe? Is it the accuracy of the probe? Is it because you're using a very dense bean? Is it the result of how you approached first crack?
Hi Jeff, thanks for watching and being a subscriber! The short answer is you can’t compare temperatures from one roasting device to another, even if they’re the same model. I have no idea what machine sweet Maria’s was using or the probe placement or the type of probe for that matter. Here are some suggestions to help you. 1. When you get your roaster follow the manufacturer’s suggestions to do some seasoning roasts. Use this opportunity to note how long it takes to get the coffee to go from charge to dry. Do the same thing for first crack and second crack. Note the temperatures for each event. This will give you a head start trying to understand your roasters event temps. 2. Once first crack hits, pay attention to the color of the coffee. Identify a light, medium, and dark roast level and write down the temp for each level. These temps will be slightly different from roast to roast depending on batch size, type of coffee and how much energy you have pushing the roast. That can be as much as 5-8 degrees different. 3. Keep a fixed fan setting, like 25% and leave it while you are first learning. Fan draw can influence the exhaust probe readings
Thanks Mike for yet another excellent coffee roasting video. I've been spending quite some time binge-watching your video library and trying to absorb and retain all the information you provide on roasting coffee. In particular, I am most interested in your drum roasting sessions using Artisan. I likely missed where you address this issue but I am curious why you do not use background profiles (either previous roasts or using Artisan Designer) when roasting with Artisan. Without a background profile to follow as a reference, it seems like roasting in the wild, wild west without any guardrails. Just wondering. Thanks again for all the hard work you put into producing your content. I always look forward to the next installment. All the best.
Hello Pierre, that is an interesting observation. You don’t see background profiles on most of my roasts because I seldom use them. This is primarily for two reasons. 1. My roasting videos are instructional and I’m focused on the profile while I’m roasting. You will notice I discuss the roast , what my goals are, and how I want to get there. Following a background roast profile would kind of nullify my instruction. Not using a background in my videos allows me to demonstrate the steps I take to accomplish the profile. The other reason I don’t use backgrounds much at all is because I usually only have a few Pounds of coffee so I would rather roast, and experiment with different profiles for that coffee than roast once and then follow that same profile a couple more times with the background. Plus, it gives me practice time to manually guide the next profile I want to try. Ok, now for the answer about roasting in the wild. I am roasting a profile using invisible guardrails. Rather than a line to follow, I am using targeted event times, like dry end, first crack, and drop. I am also using the artisan event estimator and the ROR number to guide my phase time between events. It’s a beautiful thing to be able to create a profile before the roast, then execute the profile successfully, and then taste the results. I’m not always successful, but when it happens, oh, the joy! I hope that answered your question. Oh, when I’m doing a “production” run, where I’m roasting multiple roasts if the same coffee, I will use a background profile to ensure consistency.
Nice explanation of your plan - really clear. I think I've mentioned it before but you really should tune your Artisan axes, so you get better visibility of the data you have. Set minimum temps down to something like 50C and Max to 220C and you'd see a lot more nuance in the BT curve
Hello Brett. Yes, you have mentioned i should adjust my axes and I have, many times. One of the weak areas of the Kaleido which I have experienced occasionally is the bluetooth connection. When I loose connection, i have sometimes simply deleted artisan and the settings and started all over. So, what you see is the default settings after a reinstall. Yes, it is better to be zoomed in to see more of the nuances you mention. I absolutely agree. Thanks for reminding me to make the change. Thanks for watching. I'm glad you felt my explanation was clear :-)
@@VirtualCoffeeLab In that case I would strongly suggest saving copies of your settings - and recover that as well, and only change the bluetooth comms settings to match what your computer and roaster need (device port usually - for me on PC that's a COMx number for my BT connection to my equivalent of a BC5 ). That way you get your "preferences" and can deal with whatever needs resetting for your roaster quirks. Even better is if you can save it in a location that lets you see versioning and recover older versions if you need!
Yea, good point. I do have multiple .aset files for my various roasters. I just never set one up with the M10. The occasional Bluetooth issue I experience with the M10 occurs when I am working too quickly in artisan saving a file and then resetting for the next roast. The Bluetooth gets confused or disconnected. When I go back to my artisan port settings the M10 is gone and a different name is there. I have to "forget" the device in my Bluetooth connections, do a reboot of my computer, and then reconnect. Most of the time it doesn't work and I literally delete artisan, start all over and it connects fine. This has happened about 5 times in the past 8 months. Not a major problem but irritating. Which versioning are you speaking of? Artisan?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab re versioning, I just meant at a file system level. I have (using OneDrive) the ability to go back and review or restore old versions of my settings should i ever need to, if there is ever a question or issue. I get the "confused if I go to fast", that's what my colleagues say when I explain something to them that I'm familiar with and they aren't... 🤣
Thanks Mike, Great video, Question for you, A friend sent me some Kona coffee beans, Would you recommend the same roasting profile to obtain the most flavor from these beans,? Thanks I’m roasting on a SR800 and my med roasts are about 10 minutes with 15-17 % development
Hi Ken. I don't think so. Without seeing the coffee I couldn't say for sure. Chances are the Kona is a more earthy, chocolatey coffee that is not as much a fruit forward kind of bean.. This profile lends itself to higher density coffee to highlight acidity. It the coffee 100% kona or is it a blend. Your roasting on the fresh roast so a coffee like the one in my video will be shorter total roast time. Are you still roasting with the Razzo?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Thanks Mike, the bean is suppose to be 100% Kona, I’ll let you know how it turns out,,,It was birthday present from a friend and yes, still using the Razzo tube with Roastmaster software,,
can you share more at this reference you use of the angle of ROR and how you compare that to your roasting time? I have an electric 2kg roaster and i never use your method. It takes me 13-15 minutes to end a roast, so veery far from the 9 minutes the angle tells me. If you can share any materials would be appreciated. I am thinking whether that´even achievable with my much lower RORs that peak at 18 at max with 1kg
Hello Ignacio. Thank you for your question. If you roast 1/2 kilo using the same temperatures, how long will it take to roast that coffee. Roast capacity is an easy way to help you achieve faster roasts. You will need to figure out your roaster performance based on capacity. Maybe for lighter roasts you roast less coffee per batch. Charge temperature is also another huge factor in total roast time. What type of coffee are you roasting and what is your charge temperature, first crack temperature and drop temperature?
Hey Mike, Hello, how are you doing lately? I have been more down than up but as of today i feel i will be feeling better soon. I emailed the last company we ordered beans from to give them the opportunity to rectify the problems with my last order. Only the Honduran Esperanza beans were good... they were great, actually. Everything else was frustrating trash that was more hassle than it should be. Maybe the best thing i learned is that sometimes bad beans are sent. It should not happen, but it can. In a past reply you asked me to share what storage method worked the best out of the methods i was using. I had a mason jar, a jar that displaces the air but does not vacuum out the air and a Coffee Gator storage container. The one that displaces the air had the freshest taste. I do not know about other storage containers but this one worked for me over 1.5 months where i was not home or able to make coffee once i got home. Perhaps a legit vacuum container would be best. Have a great week. Talk to you another day.
Thanks for the follow-up. Yea, the vacuumed canister I’ve use is the airscape. Not really a vacuum. The internal lid pushes out the extra air. That works really well. The other canister I’ve used is made by fellows. I like the concept but the valve doesn’t seem to last. It leaks. Hang in there KG. Thanks for sharing.
Just got a Guatemala Gesha from Sweet Maria and I wanted to try a lighter roast even though they recommend city to city+. Watched this with interest but my past experience has been that I hit first crack about 382F but I see that this is where you are doing your drop. Any suggestions on what I need to change? Thanks Mike and keep up the great work.
Larry, don't compare my temps with yours. If 382 is your fc temp on your roaster, then for a roast like this, consider dropping your coffee within 3-5 degrees. If your ror is low enough as you enter FC then you should be able to do that and finish out your roast with a little over 1 minute of development
Hey Mike, awesome video as always! Roast curve 👌👌. How would you adjust your plan for a larger batch size? Say 850g. Do you typically skip allowing the coffee to soak on a roaster like the Kaleido? ie continuing to apply heat charge to TP? Thanks again!
Hi Pete. I never really soak at all with the Kaleido. For a large bat size I use a high charged temperature if the Coffee can handle it and I’m usually 85-95% power right from the beginning. I find myself getting to dry end around 5 1/2 minutes.
I forgot to mention that I don’t think I would be able to get a good light roast with 850 g on the Kaleido M10. I don’t think there’s enough power to pull it off without potential roasting defects
Based on my experience, yes the M10 can roast great coffee. The MCR 500 gram is a great roaster. You’re right, you can’t ignore the capacity of the M10. For lighter roast color profiles you will want to roast less capacity on the M10 (500 grams). Just trying to keep capacity real. The M10 sweet spot is between 400-900 grams.
not watched too many of your videos so maybe you've explained it elsewhere but i'm curious how you decided the drying phase was over - you didn't explain it in much detail in this video. do you do this by temperature alone? cheers!
You’re right, I wasn’t very clear. Sorry about that. I do talk about this in detail in some of my other videos. Take a look at the 9:45 mark in the video and you will notice me looking at the color of the beans. Some people mark the end of the drying phase when the coffee begins to turn yellow. Others call it when most of the coffee beans have turned yellow. I call dry when there is no green left/all yellow. There is no wrong way, you just need to do it consistently . Temperature is another indicator, if you are able to monitor temps. Some people don’t have that feature on their roasters. The temp can vary depending on probe size, placement, how fast your pushing the roast, and more. Also, temperatures read differently from roaster to roaster. About 160c/320f on my Kaleido M10.
thanks for the detailed reply! i didnt see you check the colour exactly when you marked the dry end so assumed there was another reason. thanks for the amazing content dude
It all depends on the machine. If you could roast 10K in Eight minutes and Fourty-Two seconds, hitting the events at the right times, and ending the roast at the same color then you should be pretty close. I haven't tried that on a 10k machine so if someone with a large 10k plus machine wants to share their experiences that would be helpful.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab unfortunately i’m beginner in coffee roasting and i’m from Myanmar(Burma) live in Shan State (Southern)and start self learning in coffee roasting . So i don’t have much knowledge about coffee roasting machine brands. That’s why i want to know your opinions and experiences about beginner guide for (How to choose roasting machines for beginners) choosing coffee roasting machines. Thanks for your kindly reply
wayne, I have a couple of intro to coffee roasting machines for home roasters. Since you are a beginner, I would suggest you learn to roast using an inexpensive, small roaster. Then you can move into a larger machine. This is my most recent video about buying a roaster - th-cam.com/video/QN2tLGsHy1g/w-d-xo.html This is a live I did a while ago - th-cam.com/users/livee4q6rC6k3AQ I hope this was a helpful response.
@ Thank you very much for your guidance. In our country, it is very difficult to access knowledge about coffee. It was only after the appearance of TH-cam that I was able to learn what I wanted to learn. Although there were a few courses, I was not satisfied. I wanted to understand and learn by myself, so I decided to do self-learning. Thank you again.
I dont get that, how can he end roast at 194 degrees and expect first crack at 7:30... first crack is around 195-205.... does fc even matter in a light roast
Thanks for watching my video. I see you are comparing temperatures between my first crack and what you experience. I understand the confusion. Comparing coffee roasting temperatures is challenging. I've roasted on a lot of different roasters including the Bullet and Mill City Drum roasters. I've also connected artisan to smaller roasters like the fresh roast and Behmor. In every case, the first crack temperatures are not the same. Even on the same machine, a first crack temperature can be different based on the speed of the roast and the type of coffee . The probe placement is another huge factor in temperatures, especially on the Kaleido roaster. It all depends on how far the probes are pushed into the roaster (they are adjustable). I compare coffee roasting event times and the roast level (weight loss, color) to get me really close to another persons roast i am trying to replicate. If I use temperatures i usually miss the mark. Great question about whether first crack matters or not on a light roast. I think it does because first crack event signifies the point where the coffee is fully roasted. If the roast doesn't reach first crack there is a risk of underdeveloped coffee. In the case of this roast, I had a 1 minute and 12 second development time with low ROR temps so i was able to get a little development 13% without significant temperature increases. It turned out to be a really nice roast.
@VirtualCoffeeLab ... thank you for your reply, I am currently using the bullet, I've never really experimented with my bullet (It takes me a month to go through a 1kg of beans- as I just roast for myself) and I've always went with the standard 9min fc, 2min development time... I drink both espressos and cafetiere so I was always following a medium roast profile...so I think its time experimenting lighter roasts for my cafetiere. Thank you
Great video, Mike! One question, do you change the Artisan settings for the pid or graphs, your ROR seems much smoother than what I usually see. thanks!
Hi Bill. I believe I am using the default settings that come with the M10 artisan config. I took a quick look at my Config > Curves > Filters and smooth curves is set to 5. ET and BT smoothing is set to 6.
Hello Saed, thank you for watching and for your great question. The 20% "requirement" became popular when Scott Rao (for whom I have great respect) included this in his book "Coffee Roaster Companion". It is a great book that I highly recommend. In my "essentials" playlist I have a video that suggests you have a 20% Development Time Ratio (DTR) which I recorded several years ago. For me, that video was a perfect starting point for any new home coffee roaster. It is a solid phase percentage that will produce good roasted coffee. It is a starting point. Since then, I have realized through my own experiences that DTR is helpful but can also be misleading. I focus on time in development, not just the percentage. Not long ago, Scott Rao was asked the very same question you asked. He was asked if it was a mistake? Scott responded: " The most famous (or infamous) advice in The Coffee Roaster’s Companion is a recommendation to drop coffee at a DTR of 20%-25%. Was that a mistake? Perhaps in delivery, but not in substance. Do I roast to 20%-25% DTR? Not often. Huh? At Prodigal, for example, we use an air roaster and average lower than 12% weight loss per batch. We’ve occasionally neared 20%, but most roasts end up with much lower DTR.... " There is more to Scott's answer. I would encourage you to read this article. It is very interesting. www.scottrao.com/blog/2023/10/6/what-changed-in-coffee-over-the-past-30-years For me, I base my development time and ratio on my goal for what i want to taste in the cup. I use the development phase as a place to determine the amount of acidity i want in my cup. It isn't just time we should be looking at as we decide our roast profile. Bean color and ending temperature are huge factors. There is a lot more attached to this topic, but for now, I hope my response was helpful. What do you think?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I like your answer very much. I noticed that for my R1 roaster, with 17%DTR I can get good results most of the time, mainly based on the color. However, in some cases, like Sumatra, it does not work well. I may need to watch for other factors, like the ending temp. Thank you for your responses to the comments. I always learned something from them.
Hi! You have taught me how to roast beans at home and I thank you! I do have a question for you, how do I know when to drop my beans if I am unable to hear the first Crack? I can see and smell the roast but can never hear the first Crack. What temps are good ending temps for a light roast?
@@chrisDeBona Hi Chris, thanks for watching my video about a roasting plan for light roasts. What type of roaster are you using and how are you monitoring temperatures? Please let me know so I can try and answer your questions.
The Artisan log file for this roast is available for free at my BuyMeACoffee site buymeacoffee.com/virtualcoffeelab/e/286061
I mistakenly placed the wrong artisan file in the BuyMeACoffee link when I first made it available. If you already downloaded the file, it should be names:
24-08-04_ethiopian-400g-190c-194c.alog
You can download the file for free here:
buymeacoffee.com/virtualcoffeelab/e/286061
Sorry for the confusion.
Thank you.. even though I’ve been roasting off and on for >20 years, I am learning an enormous amount watching these.
I developed a taste for lighter roasts, but I couldn’t really roast with a profile (varying temp or air) on my old original Hottop and recently acquired a Cormorant roaster to play with.. it’s been an amazing change in capability and learning what how different profiles affect taste has been wonderful.
wonderful. I hope you enjoy your Cormorant roaster. Is it the 500 gram model that tilts to empty the roaster? Thanks for being a subscriber!
I'm an engineer who doesn't even own a roaster, but have recently fallen down the espresso and coffee roasting rabbit holes so I read and watch everything I can find. I have fallen in love with the Kaleido M10 roaster and watched your entire playlist. Everything in this run came out nicely, but it's difficult for me to see how to know how to plan for what you did beforehand. As an engineer, I see Artisan graphs and the talk of rate of rise, RoR, and my mind starts racing to understand how I'd plan to do something like what you did.
I came up with a mathematical way of determining the "optimal" RoR path to drop I'd like to share. I say optimal in quotes because I solve it meeting certain requirements, but that doesn't mean it'll produce the optimal cup. I was able to use the fact that Kaleido roasters seem to reach the peak RoR at 2 minutes (other TH-camr runs as well all seemed to satisfy this) and splitting the desired RoR path into two parts. Once we know the peak RoR value and the BT at that time, I generate a desired RoR path, import it into Artisan and demonstrate showing as a background on your roast. I also show how to calculate the desired RoR path during a run and have a targeted RoR and BT to shoot for during the initial run with a new type of bean.
I wrote it up as a Google Doc I can share with you if there's some way of getting me your email address. Let me know if you'd like to take a look. If this looks promising to you, I hope you can explain it to others in the simple and easy to understand way characteristic of your videos.
Hi Jeff. I do respect the engineering mind you have. I understand your need to understand the math behind the ROR line. You can send me a message at the virtual coffee lab facebook page. On my youtube channel description there is a link that shows "more links". Clicking on that will give you the link to the facebook page where you can message me.
Without knowing what your sheet says, I wanted to share why it isn't always a good idea to rely on something like this to roast specialty coffee. We're roasting an agricultural product that is unique, from one coffee to the next. These differences can benefit from different approaches to the roast profile. Total roast time, development time, ending temperatures, increase airflow, and so much more.
I'm glad you are digging deep. The sheet may help you. But, I would encourage you to focus on understanding how the coffee bean changes over time as we apply heat. Using our sense of smell, sight, and sound, we can use this information to help lead us through the roasting process, without a graph, to roast some great coffee.
The Kaleido is a fully capable machine that can produce some great coffee, but to generate a profile in artisan to have the machine follow won't go as you planned. When comparing my video and temperatures to some other roasters video, you will see some similarities in the approach BUT the temperatures will not be the same.
I'm not trying to say you are wrong, but I would encourage you to focus on and experience the basics before you jump right into artisan. It will really help you in the long term.
Thanks for sharing your ideas. I'm looking forward to seeing your google sheet.
facebook.com/TheVirtualCoffeeLab/
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Thanks, I posted a link on your facebook post
Hi Jeff. Thanks again for reaching out and for sharing your sheet. I've read your thinking process. You are a mathematician for sure. I'm not strong in math unfortunately. It seems I don't have that gift. Here are my thoughts. First, Scott Rao's "roasters companion" book introduces some interesting concepts. I have been using many of them as I learn to be a better roaster. Many people have used his approach to roast coffee. There are other coffee professionals who do not hold to that theory. Morton Munchow (Coffee Mind) has conducted some blind taste tests to determine if the constantly declining ROR theory can be validated. Based on his findings, the theory can't be validated. That isn't to say it isn't true, but through the tests conducted, about 75% of the blind taste testers from all walks of life were not able to discern the differences. They were able to taste the difference in color. It is a fascinating study. coffee-mind.com/why-rate-of-rise-is-a-bad-reference-point/
So, what do we do with Rate of Rise? Is it helpful? It is absolutely helpful for me. I use ROR to control my roast progression. It is a visual cue to my momentum and where I want that momentum to be during the roast process. I use ROR to help me estimate my roast speed during each of the phases. Does it have to be perfect? No, in my experience, there are times when I want to modify my ROR curve so I can lengthen or shorten the amount of time during the middle phase or the development phase. This will alow me to craft the flavors and acidity of the coffee to my desired flavor profile.
How and why do I do this? I think that was your initial question. I ask myself that question all the time. "How do I decide how to roast a particular coffee"? The short answer is the bean. The bean gives me an idea of my approach. The cupping info tells me some of what I can expect the flavor capabilities to be for that bean. The farm information including the altitude, process, origin, and more help me know how I will manage my heat throughout the roast. Ultimately it helps me determine the roast level I want this coffee to reach. These are all basic concepts I have been sharing in my profile series as well as my newest "Roasting 101" series. So, for me, there is no single formula to do this. At least this is where my current mindset is.
Realistically, I take this approach to all of the different coffee I roast. Many times I find that I need to change my profile to address the "unexpected" result. I can have all the data in the world to help me but the in the end, I taste the result and then decide to make changes to my ending temperature, time spent in development or the browning phase, or maybe decide my total roast time needs to be shorter or longer. My equipment is different than the person I bought the coffee from or the export company that cupped the coffee and scored it.
I appreciate the math and the passion that drives your desire to figure this out. Unfortunately, for me it isn't a math equation (that I could understand) that will help me roast. It is experience as well as trial & error along with tasting the coffee that will help me identify the best profile for my tastes.
I think this video addresses some of that I'm talking about - th-cam.com/video/GZQejHVQoYM/w-d-xo.html
And this video addresses how there are time when I don't always have a straight descending ROR and I change the angle of descent - th-cam.com/video/ISh4OMHt--M/w-d-xo.htmlsi=bMdnz-YCWjMZ9jDt&t=1023 (I qued this to the exact point where I explain this.
I hope my response was helpful. I do appreciate your thinking process and taking time to share your understanding of this Jeff. I would encourage you to listen to the coffee mind podcast episode found on the link I provided above. Also, I would encourage you to give roasting a try. Each time I roasted coffee I learned something. While I did and still do occasionally ruin some roasts, I use that as a learning opportunity. 🙂
Thanks for the response and for taking a look. I'm planning a move to Portugal in the somewhat near term, so I'm holding off purchasing a roaster until then. With time I'm sure I'll get a better feel for the roasting process and perhaps someday better understand the way you tweak the profile mid roast. You have quite the talent for it.
On an unrelated note, I just wanted to thank you for your passion. It's contagious and it's very clear that your channel is all about teaching. It's not about promoting things to get free stuff like many other coffee TH-camrs.
Excellent roasting video on the Kaleido. I’ve been roasting about 10 years, first with the Fresh Roast and then with the Gene. Ordered a Kaleido M2 as my next roaster to get more quality roasted beans for my home brew. You have took the time to explain how these profiles affect the flavor of the coffee beans and I thank you for this.
Hi Dave. I'm glad my video was helpful for you . Congrats on the new roaster!
After experience with all of those roasters - which would you suggest for a first time roaster? (But 10+ year “veteran” for extremely high quality coffee and brewing)
@@billfrigo7602 I would start with a Gene Cafe roaster. They are easy to operate and you can get a decent roast from most green beans. Ventilation is the biggest factor for me (yes there will be smoke). The chaff collector fits onto an aluminum flexible dryer duct that can be positioned near an open window. I roast in my basement normally and have used the garage during warmer months.
@@billfrigo7602 Hi Bill. I guess it depends on your budget and volume of coffee? I would probably suggest a drum roaster like the Bullet or Kaleido.
My M1 is coming in this week(!) and I’m looking forward to trying to replicate roast.
As I’m waiting for it to come in, I’ve been binge watching videos on roasting and I’m starting to realize how well controlled this roast was! I’m just hoping I can get to this level of consistency!
Hi Skytanks, thanks for watching. Congratulations on your new M1 roaster. That is exciting! If you want to replicate this roast you will need to ignore my temperatures and use the necessary temperatures on your roaster. My readings won't be the same as yours.
How do you do this? First, try matching the coffee roasting event times. You will need to figure out the best charge temperature and power setting to get your coffee to the dry event at the same time as my roast. Our temperatures might read differently but color doesn't lie. Do the same thing for the first crack event and the drop event. You will do this by managing your power setting to allow your temperature increase rate to slow down during the middle phase and the development phase. Does this make sense?
Your temperatures will read differently than mine because of the probe depth, different roaster design, and other variables. Just trust me on this and focus on the event times and the color of the coffee rather than temperatures.
Let me know how it goes!
Just staring to learn how to roast. This was extremely helpful. Keep it up!
Hi Matt. Great! I'm glad it was helpful.
What are you using to roast coffee?
@ so far just took a roasting introductory class and learned on a large city mill but looking to purchase kaleido m10 or aillio bullet to start out.
Nice. Thats exciting. I've roasted on both machines and you will get good results with both. Aillio has a new version out that is more powerful than the previous - FYI
I am not into roasting yet but I enjoy watching how you roast. I learn a lot pls keep it up!
Hello Patrick. Thank you for your message. I'm glad my videos have been helpful!
this is awesome!
I’m glad it was a helpful video. Do you have an M10 roaster?
That’s amazing perfect timing. I’m going to try down load the file and if I can get it loaded up. Another great video and very helpful. My roasts never really come out according to my plan but a do have a section in my log for a plan and I do one up for every roast. I find that the times Artisan say are not all that accurate but maybe I need to enter more info into my roast? Nice job and thanks.
They're not all like that Edward. Occasionally it all goes wrong. This was a delicious coffee. The artisan predictor that appears for dry and fc is a moving target. As your ror declines the time should get longer. Are your actual event times much different than what artisan says?
Watched this one and the other video of how to make a plan. It's amazing to see how you planned ahead and executed beautifully. It is definitely the way to roast a good coffee. The question I have is how you determine those milestone parameters. You mentioned the tasting notes, density of the bean, etc. But how do you correlate the information and come up with those milestone values? Hope you could produce another educational video to talk about it. Thank you!
Thanks for your comment and for watching.
Not all of my roasts are beautifully executed. Some are complete disasters and I try to look at those as learning experiences. I'm able to hit the milesone's in my roasting plan because I have roasted close to 200 roasts on this M10 machine. I am very familiar with the necessary charge temperature and weight require to run a roast like that. When I roast a new coffee, I try and use a similar type of coffee variety, density, and process as a reference. Then I will roast that plan and tween as necessary.
I think your question about "how to correlate information and determine the milestones" is really good. I kind of addressed this in the video. Because I wanted a light roast and the tasting notes seemed to be on the delicate side (meaning they might not work with a darker roast) , i determine my total roast time and the drop temp. I determine the middle phase time based on several things including how focused I want the acidity to be. I don't have a better way to express this AND it is my opinion, not a rule. I have a range of time I generally stick with for the middle phase. I like roasts that have 3 - 4 1/2 minutes in the browning phase. This can vary if I am using an air roaster or really small batches. But generally for batches of 400-1k I am in that range. For that particular coffee being roasted, the notes will change from the light bright notes to more darker muted notes in that span of time. I could roast the same coffee with a 3 minute middle phase and a 1 minute 15 second development and another with a 4 minute middle phase and a 1 minute 15 second development and the coffee will have different tasting notes. So, depending on the notes I want I will manipulate the time in that phase. The browning phase is the same but different. I use the development phase to tame down acidity. The longer the development, the less acidity and definition in the notes and the more roasty it will be.
I don't know if any of that makes sense but that is my thought process. Because I am familiar with the roaster and coffee I have a pretty good idea of my charge temp, drop temp need to be and from there i figure all the other parameters like total roast time and then the browning phase time. Oh, one more thing. I've been using a general approach for development time based on roast level. The lighter the roast the shorter the development time.
Light Roasts about 1 minute or as long as 1 1/2 minutes depending on the bean
Medium Roasts about 1 1/2 - 2 minutes depending on the bean
Darker roasts about 2 - 3 minutes depending on the bean
@@VirtualCoffeeLab thank you so much for your detailed response. It makes sense to me now that I need to understand my roaster’s characteristics so I can make a better estimate for a given bean, where I have the experiences with the similar beans. The thing I didn’t do is to measure the density of the beans. That contributes the length of time of each milestone.
Hi Mike, l like the roast plane it makes a lot of sense.
Thanks Shane. Making a roasting plan first has really helped me roast better!
Very nice presentation.
Thanks Victor! Glad you liked it :-)
excellent very good thank you
Most welcome Ulises. Thanks for being a subscriber!
Thank you, I am learning, slowly. 😁
Hi Levon. Thanks for being a subscriber and watching. I'm glad my videos are helpful!
This video is golden! I've been waiting for something like this on the M10 for such a long time😊.
Your content is so good and down to earth. I have yet to watch an unhelpful video...and I don't even own most of your equipment 😂
2 questions: 1) Why such a small charge weight and 2) how would you envision the roast plan may change for an Ethiopian natural?
Thanks for your encouraging comments.
Charge weight is what allowed me to roast that profile. If I would have loaded up the roaster with beans, I never would have been able to get the peak ROR necessary to complete the roast in under 9 minutes. I generally roast light roasts at about 400 grams, medium roasts around 600-800 grams, and darker roasts will be 800 +. Now, that is a really general statement and there are exceptions. I could roast dark with a 400 gram roast and it would be longer than 9 minutes. I did a video about how batch size will influence a roast profile. In that video, I used the fresh roast coffee roaster and did 2 different batches with different charge weights. All other settings remained the same. The results will be different with your drum roaster than the air roaster. I would encourage you to experiment with two roasts and change the batch size by 15-20%. See the video here. th-cam.com/video/QrNd0L1o8Co/w-d-xo.html
Regarding the Ethiopian natural, I would probably use a lower charge temperature compared to the washed. So, instead of 190c, I might use 180c. I'm guessing. naturals seem to take on heat quicker than washed beans.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Makes since. I'll give the experiment a try. Just an FYI, not sure if I'm doing something wrong but they profile on your buy me a coffee sight doesn't quite match the one in the video. The drop temps are off.
Matt, thanks for telling me about the profile. I uploaded the wrong one. Oops. I have corrected that and the correct file is now available for download. The file name should be 24-08-04_ethiopian-400g-190c-194c.alog
Sorry for the confusion.
Thank you for the in-depth parameters for light roasting, I'm so glad i found your channel. Quick question about your Kaleido setup, is your vent just gravity fed outside, or do you use an inline booster fan? Cheers!
Hi Paul. No booster fan. The Kaleido fan moves the air through the vent . I've been using this method with the kaleido for almost a year and a half with no issues. I roast about 4 batches per week.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I'm debating pulling the trigger on the M10 to replace my Behmor, so thank you again for the info.
Such an awesome video! ❤️ We’ll be roasting the same coffee tomorrow-wish us luck! 🙌☕
Cool. Let me know how it turns out.
More roasts using the Aillio Bullet would be nice. It is still a more popular roaster than the kalleidos, at the moment.
i'm working on it. I borrowed a friends Bullet to make the couple of bullet videos I did a while ago. I've been talking with the manufacturer about using one for some videos. Hopefully we will see something in the coming months.
Hi Mike! Awesome walk through with the new M10 roasting these fruit forward Ethiopean beans! Is there any where in your archive of videos that you share about Artisan settings? I can't seem to get the same smooth looking ROR curve like you have, it's all choppy with spikes up and down. I know it's about the balance between probe sensitivity and smoothing, but please share the ballpark settings that are useable and helpful to us home roasters. Many thanks in advance and keep up the good work!
Hello Tuan. Thanks for watching and your encouraging words. I believe I am using the default settings that come with the M10 artisan config. I took a quick look at my Config > Curves > Filters and smooth curves is set to 5. ET and BT smoothing is set to 6.
Thanks for the great videos. I've fallen in love with the Kaleido and am considering it as my first roaster.
I'm a bit confused by the drop temperature you chose, 194 C in your plan. According to Using Sight to Determine Degree of Roast on Sweet Maria's, first crack begins at 401 F or 205 C. You're first crack occurred at 190 C or 374 F.
Is the difference in temperatures due to where Kaleido places the probe? Is it the accuracy of the probe? Is it because you're using a very dense bean? Is it the result of how you approached first crack?
Hi Jeff, thanks for watching and being a subscriber!
The short answer is you can’t compare temperatures from one roasting device to another, even if they’re the same model. I have no idea what machine sweet Maria’s was using or the probe placement or the type of probe for that matter.
Here are some suggestions to help you.
1. When you get your roaster follow the manufacturer’s suggestions to do some seasoning roasts. Use this opportunity to note how long it takes to get the coffee to go from charge to dry. Do the same thing for first crack and second crack. Note the temperatures for each event. This will give you a head start trying to understand your roasters event temps.
2. Once first crack hits, pay attention to the color of the coffee. Identify a light, medium, and dark roast level and write down the temp for each level. These temps will be slightly different from roast to roast depending on batch size, type of coffee and how much energy you have pushing the roast. That can be as much as 5-8 degrees different.
3. Keep a fixed fan setting, like 25% and leave it while you are first learning. Fan draw can influence the exhaust probe readings
Thanks Mike for yet another excellent coffee roasting video. I've been spending quite some time binge-watching your video library and trying to absorb and retain all the information you provide on roasting coffee. In particular, I am most interested in your drum roasting sessions using Artisan. I likely missed where you address this issue but I am curious why you do not use background profiles (either previous roasts or using Artisan Designer) when roasting with Artisan. Without a background profile to follow as a reference, it seems like roasting in the wild, wild west without any guardrails. Just wondering. Thanks again for all the hard work you put into producing your content. I always look forward to the next installment. All the best.
Hello Pierre, that is an interesting observation. You don’t see background profiles on most of my roasts because I seldom use them. This is primarily for two reasons.
1. My roasting videos are instructional and I’m focused on the profile while I’m roasting. You will notice I discuss the roast , what my goals are, and how I want to get there. Following a background roast profile would kind of nullify my instruction. Not using a background in my videos allows me to demonstrate the steps I take to accomplish the profile.
The other reason I don’t use backgrounds much at all is because I usually only have a few Pounds of coffee so I would rather roast, and experiment with different profiles for that coffee than roast once and then follow that same profile a couple more times with the background. Plus, it gives me practice time to manually guide the next profile I want to try.
Ok, now for the answer about roasting in the wild. I am roasting a profile using invisible guardrails. Rather than a line to follow, I am using targeted event times, like dry end, first crack, and drop. I am also using the artisan event estimator and the ROR number to guide my phase time between events. It’s a beautiful thing to be able to create a profile before the roast, then execute the profile successfully, and then taste the results. I’m not always successful, but when it happens, oh, the joy!
I hope that answered your question. Oh, when I’m doing a “production” run, where I’m roasting multiple roasts if the same coffee, I will use a background profile to ensure consistency.
Nice explanation of your plan - really clear.
I think I've mentioned it before but you really should tune your Artisan axes, so you get better visibility of the data you have. Set minimum temps down to something like 50C and Max to 220C and you'd see a lot more nuance in the BT curve
Hello Brett. Yes, you have mentioned i should adjust my axes and I have, many times. One of the weak areas of the Kaleido which I have experienced occasionally is the bluetooth connection. When I loose connection, i have sometimes simply deleted artisan and the settings and started all over. So, what you see is the default settings after a reinstall. Yes, it is better to be zoomed in to see more of the nuances you mention. I absolutely agree. Thanks for reminding me to make the change.
Thanks for watching. I'm glad you felt my explanation was clear :-)
@@VirtualCoffeeLab In that case I would strongly suggest saving copies of your settings - and recover that as well, and only change the bluetooth comms settings to match what your computer and roaster need (device port usually - for me on PC that's a COMx number for my BT connection to my equivalent of a BC5 ). That way you get your "preferences" and can deal with whatever needs resetting for your roaster quirks. Even better is if you can save it in a location that lets you see versioning and recover older versions if you need!
Yea, good point. I do have multiple .aset files for my various roasters. I just never set one up with the M10. The occasional Bluetooth issue I experience with the M10 occurs when I am working too quickly in artisan saving a file and then resetting for the next roast. The Bluetooth gets confused or disconnected. When I go back to my artisan port settings the M10 is gone and a different name is there. I have to "forget" the device in my Bluetooth connections, do a reboot of my computer, and then reconnect. Most of the time it doesn't work and I literally delete artisan, start all over and it connects fine. This has happened about 5 times in the past 8 months. Not a major problem but irritating. Which versioning are you speaking of? Artisan?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab re versioning, I just meant at a file system level. I have (using OneDrive) the ability to go back and review or restore old versions of my settings should i ever need to, if there is ever a question or issue.
I get the "confused if I go to fast", that's what my colleagues say when I explain something to them that I'm familiar with and they aren't... 🤣
that's funny. Thanks for the clarification Brett. I like the idea of using google drive for those files.
Thanks Mike, Great video,
Question for you, A friend sent me some Kona coffee beans, Would you recommend the same roasting profile to obtain the most flavor from these beans,?
Thanks
I’m roasting on a SR800 and my med roasts are about 10 minutes with 15-17 % development
Hi Ken. I don't think so. Without seeing the coffee I couldn't say for sure. Chances are the Kona is a more earthy, chocolatey coffee that is not as much a fruit forward kind of bean.. This profile lends itself to higher density coffee to highlight acidity.
It the coffee 100% kona or is it a blend.
Your roasting on the fresh roast so a coffee like the one in my video will be shorter total roast time. Are you still roasting with the Razzo?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Thanks Mike, the bean is suppose to be 100% Kona, I’ll let you know how it turns out,,,It was birthday present from a friend and yes, still using the Razzo tube with Roastmaster software,,
can you share more at this reference you use of the angle of ROR and how you compare that to your roasting time? I have an electric 2kg roaster and i never use your method. It takes me 13-15 minutes to end a roast, so veery far from the 9 minutes the angle tells me. If you can share any materials would be appreciated. I am thinking whether that´even achievable with my much lower RORs that peak at 18 at max with 1kg
Hello Ignacio. Thank you for your question. If you roast 1/2 kilo using the same temperatures, how long will it take to roast that coffee. Roast capacity is an easy way to help you achieve faster roasts. You will need to figure out your roaster performance based on capacity. Maybe for lighter roasts you roast less coffee per batch.
Charge temperature is also another huge factor in total roast time. What type of coffee are you roasting and what is your charge temperature, first crack temperature and drop temperature?
Hey Mike,
Hello, how are you doing lately? I have been more down than up but as of today i feel i will be feeling better soon.
I emailed the last company we ordered beans from to give them the opportunity to rectify the problems with my last order. Only the Honduran Esperanza beans were good... they were great, actually.
Everything else was frustrating trash that was more hassle than it should be. Maybe the best thing i learned is that sometimes bad beans are sent. It should not happen, but it can.
In a past reply you asked me to share what storage method worked the best out of the methods i was using. I had a mason jar, a jar that displaces the air but does not vacuum out the air and a Coffee Gator storage container.
The one that displaces the air had the freshest taste. I do not know about other storage containers but this one worked for me over 1.5 months where i was not home or able to make coffee once i got home.
Perhaps a legit vacuum container would be best. Have a great week. Talk to you another day.
Thanks for the follow-up. Yea, the vacuumed canister I’ve use is the airscape. Not really a vacuum. The internal lid pushes out the extra air. That works really well. The other canister I’ve used is made by fellows. I like the concept but the valve doesn’t seem to last. It leaks.
Hang in there KG. Thanks for sharing.
Just got a Guatemala Gesha from Sweet Maria and I wanted to try a lighter roast even though they recommend city to city+. Watched this with interest but my past experience has been that I hit first crack about 382F but I see that this is where you are doing your drop. Any suggestions on what I need to change? Thanks Mike and keep up the great work.
Larry, don't compare my temps with yours. If 382 is your fc temp on your roaster, then for a roast like this, consider dropping your coffee within 3-5 degrees. If your ror is low enough as you enter FC then you should be able to do that and finish out your roast with a little over 1 minute of development
@@VirtualCoffeeLab That sounds like a plan. I will definitely reduce my ror going into FC. Thanks Mike
Hey Mike, awesome video as always! Roast curve 👌👌. How would you adjust your plan for a larger batch size? Say 850g. Do you typically skip allowing the coffee to soak on a roaster like the Kaleido? ie continuing to apply heat charge to TP? Thanks again!
Hi Pete. I never really soak at all with the Kaleido. For a large bat size I use a high charged temperature if the Coffee can handle it and I’m usually 85-95% power right from the beginning. I find myself getting to dry end around 5 1/2 minutes.
I forgot to mention that I don’t think I would be able to get a good light roast with 850 g on the Kaleido M10. I don’t think there’s enough power to pull it off without potential roasting defects
Is the coffee on the M10 on par with your MCR? I’m really leaning towards the M10 for its capacity to dollars ratio
Based on my experience, yes the M10 can roast great coffee. The MCR 500 gram is a great roaster. You’re right, you can’t ignore the capacity of the M10. For lighter roast color profiles you will want to roast less capacity on the M10 (500 grams). Just trying to keep capacity real. The M10 sweet spot is between 400-900 grams.
not watched too many of your videos so maybe you've explained it elsewhere but i'm curious how you decided the drying phase was over - you didn't explain it in much detail in this video. do you do this by temperature alone? cheers!
You’re right, I wasn’t very clear. Sorry about that. I do talk about this in detail in some of my other videos. Take a look at the 9:45 mark in the video and you will notice me looking at the color of the beans. Some people mark the end of the drying phase when the coffee begins to turn yellow. Others call it when most of the coffee beans have turned yellow. I call dry when there is no green left/all yellow. There is no wrong way, you just need to do it consistently .
Temperature is another indicator, if you are able to monitor temps. Some people don’t have that feature on their roasters. The temp can vary depending on probe size, placement, how fast your pushing the roast, and more. Also, temperatures read differently from roaster to roaster. About 160c/320f on my Kaleido M10.
thanks for the detailed reply! i didnt see you check the colour exactly when you marked the dry end so assumed there was another reason. thanks for the amazing content dude
Are you using 220v or 120v .
Hello Etsgent. I am using 220v
how much would the profile change for a 10k roast ?
It all depends on the machine. If you could roast 10K in Eight minutes and Fourty-Two seconds, hitting the events at the right times, and ending the roast at the same color then you should be pretty close. I haven't tried that on a 10k machine so if someone with a large 10k plus machine wants to share their experiences that would be helpful.
plz Make a top 10 or top 5 comparison of affordable
coffee roaster brands that can roast 1kg.
That is a good idea. Can you share some roasters that fall into that category?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab unfortunately i’m beginner in coffee roasting and i’m from Myanmar(Burma) live in Shan State (Southern)and start self learning in coffee roasting . So i don’t have much knowledge about coffee roasting machine brands. That’s why i want to know your opinions and experiences about beginner guide for (How to choose roasting machines for beginners) choosing coffee roasting machines. Thanks for your kindly reply
wayne, I have a couple of intro to coffee roasting machines for home roasters. Since you are a beginner, I would suggest you learn to roast using an inexpensive, small roaster. Then you can move into a larger machine.
This is my most recent video about buying a roaster - th-cam.com/video/QN2tLGsHy1g/w-d-xo.html
This is a live I did a while ago - th-cam.com/users/livee4q6rC6k3AQ
I hope this was a helpful response.
@ Thank you very much for your guidance. In our country, it is very difficult to access knowledge about coffee. It was only after the appearance of TH-cam that I was able to learn what I wanted to learn. Although there were a few courses, I was not satisfied. I wanted to understand and learn by myself, so I decided to do self-learning. Thank you again.
I dont get that, how can he end roast at 194 degrees and expect first crack at 7:30... first crack is around 195-205.... does fc even matter in a light roast
Thanks for watching my video. I see you are comparing temperatures between my first crack and what you experience. I understand the confusion. Comparing coffee roasting temperatures is challenging. I've roasted on a lot of different roasters including the Bullet and Mill City Drum roasters. I've also connected artisan to smaller roasters like the fresh roast and Behmor. In every case, the first crack temperatures are not the same. Even on the same machine, a first crack temperature can be different based on the speed of the roast and the type of coffee . The probe placement is another huge factor in temperatures, especially on the Kaleido roaster. It all depends on how far the probes are pushed into the roaster (they are adjustable). I compare coffee roasting event times and the roast level (weight loss, color) to get me really close to another persons roast i am trying to replicate. If I use temperatures i usually miss the mark.
Great question about whether first crack matters or not on a light roast. I think it does because first crack event signifies the point where the coffee is fully roasted. If the roast doesn't reach first crack there is a risk of underdeveloped coffee. In the case of this roast, I had a 1 minute and 12 second development time with low ROR temps so i was able to get a little development 13% without significant temperature increases. It turned out to be a really nice roast.
@VirtualCoffeeLab ... thank you for your reply, I am currently using the bullet, I've never really experimented with my bullet (It takes me a month to go through a 1kg of beans- as I just roast for myself) and I've always went with the standard 9min fc, 2min development time... I drink both espressos and cafetiere so I was always following a medium roast profile...so I think its time experimenting lighter roasts for my cafetiere. Thank you
Great video, Mike! One question, do you change the Artisan settings for the pid or graphs, your ROR seems much smoother than what I usually see. thanks!
Hi Bill. I believe I am using the default settings that come with the M10 artisan config. I took a quick look at my Config > Curves > Filters and smooth curves is set to 5. ET and BT smoothing is set to 6.
Hello aren’t we supposed to have at least 20% development time ? Why did yours have only 13%?
Hello Saed, thank you for watching and for your great question. The 20% "requirement" became popular when Scott Rao (for whom I have great respect) included this in his book "Coffee Roaster Companion". It is a great book that I highly recommend. In my "essentials" playlist I have a video that suggests you have a 20% Development Time Ratio (DTR) which I recorded several years ago. For me, that video was a perfect starting point for any new home coffee roaster. It is a solid phase percentage that will produce good roasted coffee. It is a starting point. Since then, I have realized through my own experiences that DTR is helpful but can also be misleading. I focus on time in development, not just the percentage.
Not long ago, Scott Rao was asked the very same question you asked. He was asked if it was a mistake? Scott responded:
" The most famous (or infamous) advice in The Coffee Roaster’s Companion is a recommendation to drop coffee at a DTR of 20%-25%. Was that a mistake? Perhaps in delivery, but not in substance. Do I roast to 20%-25% DTR? Not often. Huh? At Prodigal, for example, we use an air roaster and average lower than 12% weight loss per batch. We’ve occasionally neared 20%, but most roasts end up with much lower DTR.... "
There is more to Scott's answer. I would encourage you to read this article. It is very interesting. www.scottrao.com/blog/2023/10/6/what-changed-in-coffee-over-the-past-30-years
For me, I base my development time and ratio on my goal for what i want to taste in the cup. I use the development phase as a place to determine the amount of acidity i want in my cup. It isn't just time we should be looking at as we decide our roast profile. Bean color and ending temperature are huge factors. There is a lot more attached to this topic, but for now, I hope my response was helpful.
What do you think?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I like your answer very much. I noticed that for my R1 roaster, with 17%DTR I can get good results most of the time, mainly based on the color. However, in some cases, like Sumatra, it does not work well. I may need to watch for other factors, like the ending temp.
Thank you for your responses to the comments. I always learned something from them.
Hi! You have taught me how to roast beans at home and I thank you! I do have a question for you, how do I know when to drop my beans if I am unable to hear the first Crack? I can see and smell the roast but can never hear the first Crack. What temps are good ending temps for a light roast?
@@chrisDeBona Hi Chris, thanks for watching my video about a roasting plan for light roasts. What type of roaster are you using and how are you monitoring temperatures? Please let me know so I can try and answer your questions.