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This is well made, but keep in mind this is a show ONLY problem and her whole arc was ruined by the writers. Like in the books BOTH Alicent and Rhaenyra were EVIL they STOOD on Business. The show literally took all of their best characteristics and gave them to the men because God forbid women be allowed to be evil.
@@Space_Cowgirl_ AAHH YESS like the best scene on the show was when they finally tussled and alicent cut rhaenyra. the actors can act so let them act pls 😩
The fanbase vilifies Allicent horribly. Partially because, I feel, they put Rhaenyra on a pedestal and feel the need to pit women against each other when in reality they are both flawed. I saw people say she betrayed Rhaenyra by seducing her dad Viserys, as if she wasn't a child bride pimped out by her father. I also feel that even the writers were biased against her, trying to make her a scapegoat and villain in Rhaenyra's story. One of the writers said they based her off of "women for Trump" but even the Black women like Rhaenys and Rhaenyra could fit that bill too at times.
I think that Rhaenyra is going fall off the pedestal in Season 3. The books of Dance of Dragons are written by Maesters with anti women and Targaryen propaganda. Mushroom most of his writings are meant to make him look good. The only thing I agree with Mushroom is Adam of Hull is most likely Corlys's son than Laenor. To many readers are taking the Dance as 100% factual in the recordings and not asking questions about the authors.
Honestly, i think the show's approach is way more interesting. The villains in HOTD are way more dynamic and layered than GOT I can feel for them and understand their motives. In hindsight the villains in GOT are sort of bland, cartoonish even. There are people in the world who are evil evil, but it's really not that common. We luckily had Lena to give Cearsi in GOT depth.
@@ShannaFarley i see. maybe it could be that hotd focuses on less characters & subplots? i just wish alicent didn't oscillate from one decision/motive to another. that final scene where she gives up aegon (and by extension aemond & daeron) just didn't feel in character & negates everything she was working towards :(
this is a well-made video, i liked the editing and the formats too. though i don't really grasp what you mean by her going evil, she already has been 'evil' through her actions so far (though not as much as mother cntress cersei i fear)
@@FUMEXE omg thank u 🫶🏽 ig what i was trying to say was that it would've been interesting if she grasped unto power even more. it's like they're too afraid of making her a full-on villain (or gay)
I liked this. While I have sympathy for Alicent I have noticed most fans tend to strip her of any culpability for her hypocrisy and at times cruelty because of what happened to her. Yes she was abused by Viserys and emotionally neglected by her father but she also created such a toxic family for her kids instilling this hatred and disdain for their sister and nephews. Despite the fear that Rheanyra may kill them she goes out of her way to alienate them and basically ensures that when Rheanyra ascends she will to kill her brothers who have been told by their mother and the people she surrounded them with that Rheanyra is evil incanate. Mind you she has no reason to believe all this becse if she was trully afraid of Rheanyra she would not have been terrorising her all those years in the Red Keep.
@@mufarovalerieellenmasumbu348 OMGGG RIGHT?? that final scene made no sense because wdym she's ready to give up her boys when all along she was poisoning them against rhaenyra? explanation isn't justification 🙂↕️
I fear ppl forget that she genuinely believed that rhaeynra would put her children to the sword and if not her then daemon, by the time Otto left kingslanding, rhaeynra stopped speaking to alicent unless she had to so of course in those years Otto was away alicent didn’t grow any type of love for rhaeynra as she once had so it was easy for the resentment to seep in.
I think one of the mistakes was making Alicent Hightower the same age of Rhaenyra. For book lovers and protest the records of the Dance of Dragons is based on were written by Maesters and Mushroom both had their propaganda reasons to distort what really what happened. The Maesters are extremely anti magic and pro Hightower faction and why do you think that Marwin was considered persona non grata in 300 AC. Because any blood lines that have magic are a threat to the Maesters. Never trust a Maesters. The books paints Rhaenyra as a super villain because she is a threat to having a solely male premigon in succession. Meaning Maesters can't have women in power. Just because a woman gives birth to a child through a traumatic experience doesn't mean that she would automatically love them. This shown in the Show with Cersei Lannister talking about Robert Baretheon son and how she couldn't bring herself love him like her other children. The thing many male fans see that Alicent Hightower is what they expect because she is playing a role as a traditional woman with no agency and especially over her body. The fact Incels and extremely conservative men are trying to take agency from women about their own bodies and can't find any one that is willing to date them. Isn't really shocking at all. I suspect many women in the future would rather go childless and not being married at all if it means they don't have to give up their bodily autonomy. Alicent Hightower at the end of the day would rather live on her own terms and instead of marrying Viseyrus Targaryen.
I love Alicent but I wish more people understood what she truly is. Yes she is a victim, a child bride, survivor of marital rape, she birthed and raised children she never wanted and spent her whole life sacrificing herself for the men around her. But she's also a hypocrite. She shames Rhaenyra for having an affair but has one herself. She believes Rhaenyra will make a good Queen but opposes her on every turn. She claims she never wanted to hetray Rhaenyra but decided to go along with her father's plan anyway, choosing to lie to her best friend. During the finale of S2 she acted the way she always has. Hypocritically. Sacrificing the children she claims to love (and I'm sure she has loved to some extent) for her freedom. For the first time in her life she did something only for herself and I don't understand how people didn't see that coming. Loved her all throughout season 1 and 2.
I think its wrong to view Alicent through a modern womans perspective, bc in that she will always be the villian. Not one of these women in the show can be remotely called a feminist. And they shouldnt. I disagree so much with a number of points you made, but the toping of it all was that Alicent had a hand in the Dance, when it was the same idiot grapist king that should take all the blame. Also how dare she crown her son when that could save her childrens lives? Honestly, who cares for them? Nyra? No, she easily wanted Aemond tortured. Daemon? He hates the Hightowers. Its even more vile that Alicent at that point is the first queen whos pure Andal. Her son is half Andal on her side then. And hes also the first whos not heir. Honestly, i wished book Alicent. I wanted her absolutely vile in the time skip, bc she, of all people, deserves to rage.
no fr, it's just the storytelling of the show makes her so ??? in the books she fought for her children no matter how cruel she turned out to be. in the show tho she's so surprised that rhaenyra wants to start a war? she washes her hands of all culpability when she should've taken rhaenys's advice to take the iron throne for herself (i still stand by the fact that she had a hand in the dance). and tbh even rhaenyra isn't sure of whether she should be foaming at the mouth or pitying the people that took her birthright.
@@orphicccmess I'm a certified Nyra hater so I won't talk abt her at all bc nothing would be of value here. Those writers can't write women and they seriously hate Alicent as a character too bc else this garbage doesn't make sense. Also how should she take the throne, she has no right to it, she married into the family only. It was fine being regent, but everything, she can't do, and I doubt she wants bc its a lot of work. Rhaenys should be real quiet, toiling in service to her husband and letting him pimp their daughter out.
@@c2e.7877 You're pretty right about them not writing women well. They feel like women characters have to be sanitized and all their actions excused. One of the writers, Sarah Hess, defended Rhaenys killing countless innocent people with her dragon by saying "civilians don't count". Verbatim, not kidding. They completely dehumanize the small folk (and the colonized first men and dornish) and ignore their human rights being violated.
Thank you for trying to 'defend' Alicent, but it's obvious you don't like the character because you don't really get her, but thank you for acknowledging her suffering at least, she's a truly fascinating character with a really complex trauma and if you look further into the show the clues to her character journey and the understanding she has of herself, her relationships and the world are there, she's the most introspective character where the battle is with oneself, she is a highly contradictory character. I think her downfall as a character is the public perspective and projection of how her character should be and how it breaks expectations (also she is a woman and females characters are more hated) Understand the context and the themes of the show, how Alicent (represed) character, being a complete opposite like a mirror of Rhaenyra (more liberated) brings to light in the show what's the comentary, what the show want to expose. It is not a question of justifying or defending her, she is a character not a real person in a specific context (medieval fantasy, in a court, religious, woman...) with a character arc, the vision where she is hated and blamed for everything (or analyzing her from a modern or real life moralism out of her context...) and the version where she is defended for everything (I support women's rights and wrong mentality) fall into the same one-dimensional vision which is so reductive, at the same time, rooting for the teams' dichotomies (which ironically the show's marketing encourages and the audience easily falls for) is the most uncritical way to engage with the show I've ever seen (which I find extremely funny). She is in a self discobery (depressed) moment and maybe that's her character arc discover herself and what she wants or maybe not but she is in a transiton. Also Haelena is more a reflection of herself and how she has betrayed her if you notice their situations end up being similar even though the context is different, she is her mothers daughter and share a similar faith that's why she has the need of protect her, disappear with her. Well, I'm not going to refute every point because I don't want to end up writing a very long essay.
@@reachelglasser544 i'm sorry but is that not what i said throughout the video-the complexity of her character & being in contrast to rhaenyra's and how helaena is who alicent could've been if she wasn't forced into the role of mother/heir-maker/child bride/queen that in turn made her act in cruel (but somewhat understandable) ways?
@@orphicccmess No, I don't agree because Helaena is not who Alicent could have been if Alicent wasn't force into a horrible role, Helaena is condemned to follow her mother's faith (Helaena is also forced into the role of mother/heir-maker/child bride/queen that Alicent could not save her) and Alicent realizes this (she has condemned her own daughter to follow in her footsteps) that's why she wants to take her away so that both can be saved. And yes, you talk about the contrast with Rhaenyra but I don't agree with how you approach it because the decision to make them opposites is to see the two sides of the same coin, and not to confront their positions unfairly (of course morally we all support the rebellious and more liberating position and not the submissive and repressed one but that is not the point nor the theme of the story. The fact that Alicent is submissive to the status quo and seeks recognition from them, does not make her evil no matter how much she behaves like that, one of the phrases that I like when she talks to Rhaenyra is 'i have been at times unkind but never untrue' and i love they, the show, give her that complexity and not make her an archetypal villain character) and in an ideal world where Alicent character did not succumb to her indoctrination, there would be no story to tell or character arc.
I was excited to watch the video, but got turned off by judging the characters from modern society's values. It wasn't unusual at all to be married at 15 and mother of 4 by 20 when most everyone dies around their 50s. I do wish that Alicent was more villainous, the writers have shit on one of my favs. I do like show Alicent though.
support the channel 💌
⋆ donate a ☕️: ko-fi.com/orphicccmess
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⋆ subscribe !
i needed an alicent supervillain arc like girl stand on business (being evil) pls 😩
This is well made, but keep in mind this is a show ONLY problem and her whole arc was ruined by the writers. Like in the books BOTH Alicent and Rhaenyra were EVIL they STOOD on Business. The show literally took all of their best characteristics and gave them to the men because God forbid women be allowed to be evil.
@@Space_Cowgirl_ AAHH YESS like the best scene on the show was when they finally tussled and alicent cut rhaenyra. the actors can act so let them act pls 😩
The fanbase vilifies Allicent horribly. Partially because, I feel, they put Rhaenyra on a pedestal and feel the need to pit women against each other when in reality they are both flawed. I saw people say she betrayed Rhaenyra by seducing her dad Viserys, as if she wasn't a child bride pimped out by her father. I also feel that even the writers were biased against her, trying to make her a scapegoat and villain in Rhaenyra's story. One of the writers said they based her off of "women for Trump" but even the Black women like Rhaenys and Rhaenyra could fit that bill too at times.
I think that Rhaenyra is going fall off the pedestal in Season 3. The books of Dance of Dragons are written by Maesters with anti women and Targaryen propaganda. Mushroom most of his writings are meant to make him look good. The only thing I agree with Mushroom is Adam of Hull is most likely Corlys's son than Laenor. To many readers are taking the Dance as 100% factual in the recordings and not asking questions about the authors.
Honestly, i think the show's approach is way more interesting. The villains in HOTD are way more dynamic and layered than GOT I can feel for them and understand their motives. In hindsight the villains in GOT are sort of bland, cartoonish even. There are people in the world who are evil evil, but it's really not that common. We luckily had Lena to give Cearsi in GOT depth.
@@ShannaFarley i see. maybe it could be that hotd focuses on less characters & subplots? i just wish alicent didn't oscillate from one decision/motive to another. that final scene where she gives up aegon (and by extension aemond & daeron) just didn't feel in character & negates everything she was working towards :(
this is a well-made video, i liked the editing and the formats too. though i don't really grasp what you mean by her going evil, she already has been 'evil' through her actions so far (though not as much as mother cntress cersei i fear)
@@FUMEXE omg thank u 🫶🏽 ig what i was trying to say was that it would've been interesting if she grasped unto power even more. it's like they're too afraid of making her a full-on villain (or gay)
I liked this. While I have sympathy for Alicent I have noticed most fans tend to strip her of any culpability for her hypocrisy and at times cruelty because of what happened to her.
Yes she was abused by Viserys and emotionally neglected by her father but she also created such a toxic family for her kids instilling this hatred and disdain for their sister and nephews. Despite the fear that Rheanyra may kill them she goes out of her way to alienate them and basically ensures that when Rheanyra ascends she will to kill her brothers who have been told by their mother and the people she surrounded them with that Rheanyra is evil incanate. Mind you she has no reason to believe all this becse if she was trully afraid of Rheanyra she would not have been terrorising her all those years in the Red Keep.
@@mufarovalerieellenmasumbu348 OMGGG RIGHT?? that final scene made no sense because wdym she's ready to give up her boys when all along she was poisoning them against rhaenyra? explanation isn't justification 🙂↕️
@@orphicccmess or her being shocked that Aemond would kill Luke or burn a city... like you raised him to be a war machine.
I fear ppl forget that she genuinely believed that rhaeynra would put her children to the sword and if not her then daemon, by the time Otto left kingslanding, rhaeynra stopped speaking to alicent unless she had to so of course in those years Otto was away alicent didn’t grow any type of love for rhaeynra as she once had so it was easy for the resentment to seep in.
I think one of the mistakes was making Alicent Hightower the same age of Rhaenyra. For book lovers and protest the records of the Dance of Dragons is based on were written by Maesters and Mushroom both had their propaganda reasons to distort what really what happened. The Maesters are extremely anti magic and pro Hightower faction and why do you think that Marwin was considered persona non grata in 300 AC. Because any blood lines that have magic are a threat to the Maesters. Never trust a Maesters. The books paints Rhaenyra as a super villain because she is a threat to having a solely male premigon in succession. Meaning Maesters can't have women in power. Just because a woman gives birth to a child through a traumatic experience doesn't mean that she would automatically love them. This shown in the Show with Cersei Lannister talking about Robert Baretheon son and how she couldn't bring herself love him like her other children. The thing many male fans see that Alicent Hightower is what they expect because she is playing a role as a traditional woman with no agency and especially over her body. The fact Incels and extremely conservative men are trying to take agency from women about their own bodies and can't find any one that is willing to date them. Isn't really shocking at all. I suspect many women in the future would rather go childless and not being married at all if it means they don't have to give up their bodily autonomy. Alicent Hightower at the end of the day would rather live on her own terms and instead of marrying Viseyrus Targaryen.
I love Alicent but I wish more people understood what she truly is.
Yes she is a victim, a child bride, survivor of marital rape, she birthed and raised children she never wanted and spent her whole life sacrificing herself for the men around her.
But she's also a hypocrite. She shames Rhaenyra for having an affair but has one herself. She believes Rhaenyra will make a good Queen but opposes her on every turn. She claims she never wanted to hetray Rhaenyra but decided to go along with her father's plan anyway, choosing to lie to her best friend.
During the finale of S2 she acted the way she always has. Hypocritically. Sacrificing the children she claims to love (and I'm sure she has loved to some extent) for her freedom.
For the first time in her life she did something only for herself and I don't understand how people didn't see that coming.
Loved her all throughout season 1 and 2.
I think its wrong to view Alicent through a modern womans perspective, bc in that she will always be the villian. Not one of these women in the show can be remotely called a feminist. And they shouldnt. I disagree so much with a number of points you made, but the toping of it all was that Alicent had a hand in the Dance, when it was the same idiot grapist king that should take all the blame. Also how dare she crown her son when that could save her childrens lives? Honestly, who cares for them? Nyra? No, she easily wanted Aemond tortured. Daemon? He hates the Hightowers. Its even more vile that Alicent at that point is the first queen whos pure Andal. Her son is half Andal on her side then. And hes also the first whos not heir. Honestly, i wished book Alicent. I wanted her absolutely vile in the time skip, bc she, of all people, deserves to rage.
no fr, it's just the storytelling of the show makes her so ??? in the books she fought for her children no matter how cruel she turned out to be. in the show tho she's so surprised that rhaenyra wants to start a war? she washes her hands of all culpability when she should've taken rhaenys's advice to take the iron throne for herself (i still stand by the fact that she had a hand in the dance).
and tbh even rhaenyra isn't sure of whether she should be foaming at the mouth or pitying the people that took her birthright.
@@orphicccmess I'm a certified Nyra hater so I won't talk abt her at all bc nothing would be of value here. Those writers can't write women and they seriously hate Alicent as a character too bc else this garbage doesn't make sense. Also how should she take the throne, she has no right to it, she married into the family only. It was fine being regent, but everything, she can't do, and I doubt she wants bc its a lot of work. Rhaenys should be real quiet, toiling in service to her husband and letting him pimp their daughter out.
@@c2e.7877 You're pretty right about them not writing women well. They feel like women characters have to be sanitized and all their actions excused. One of the writers, Sarah Hess, defended Rhaenys killing countless innocent people with her dragon by saying "civilians don't count". Verbatim, not kidding. They completely dehumanize the small folk (and the colonized first men and dornish) and ignore their human rights being violated.
Thank you for trying to 'defend' Alicent, but it's obvious you don't like the character because you don't really get her, but thank you for acknowledging her suffering at least, she's a truly fascinating character with a really complex trauma and if you look further into the show the clues to her character journey and the understanding she has of herself, her relationships and the world are there, she's the most introspective character where the battle is with oneself, she is a highly contradictory character.
I think her downfall as a character is the public perspective and projection of how her character should be and how it breaks expectations (also she is a woman and females characters are more hated) Understand the context and the themes of the show, how Alicent (represed) character, being a complete opposite like a mirror of Rhaenyra (more liberated) brings to light in the show what's the comentary, what the show want to expose. It is not a question of justifying or defending her, she is a character not a real person in a specific context (medieval fantasy, in a court, religious, woman...) with a character arc, the vision where she is hated and blamed for everything (or analyzing her from a modern or real life moralism out of her context...) and the version where she is defended for everything (I support women's rights and wrong mentality) fall into the same one-dimensional vision which is so reductive, at the same time, rooting for the teams' dichotomies (which ironically the show's marketing encourages and the audience easily falls for) is the most uncritical way to engage with the show I've ever seen (which I find extremely funny).
She is in a self discobery (depressed) moment and maybe that's her character arc discover herself and what she wants or maybe not but she is in a transiton. Also Haelena is more a reflection of herself and how she has betrayed her if you notice their situations end up being similar even though the context is different, she is her mothers daughter and share a similar faith that's why she has the need of protect her, disappear with her. Well, I'm not going to refute every point because I don't want to end up writing a very long essay.
@@reachelglasser544 i'm sorry but is that not what i said throughout the video-the complexity of her character & being in contrast to rhaenyra's and how helaena is who alicent could've been if she wasn't forced into the role of mother/heir-maker/child bride/queen that in turn made her act in cruel (but somewhat understandable) ways?
@@orphicccmess No, I don't agree because Helaena is not who Alicent could have been if Alicent wasn't force into a horrible role, Helaena is condemned to follow her mother's faith (Helaena is also forced into the role of mother/heir-maker/child bride/queen that Alicent could not save her) and Alicent realizes this (she has condemned her own daughter to follow in her footsteps) that's why she wants to take her away so that both can be saved.
And yes, you talk about the contrast with Rhaenyra but I don't agree with how you approach it because the decision to make them opposites is to see the two sides of the same coin, and not to confront their positions unfairly (of course morally we all support the rebellious and more liberating position and not the submissive and repressed one but that is not the point nor the theme of the story. The fact that Alicent is submissive to the status quo and seeks recognition from them, does not make her evil no matter how much she behaves like that, one of the phrases that I like when she talks to Rhaenyra is 'i have been at times unkind but never untrue' and i love they, the show, give her that complexity and not make her an archetypal villain character) and in an ideal world where Alicent character did not succumb to her indoctrination, there would be no story to tell or character arc.
I was excited to watch the video, but got turned off by judging the characters from modern society's values. It wasn't unusual at all to be married at 15 and mother of 4 by 20 when most everyone dies around their 50s. I do wish that Alicent was more villainous, the writers have shit on one of my favs. I do like show Alicent though.
Bro, whether it's Brazil, India, South Africa, etc; some Gen Zs around the world have the thickest American accent it's wild lol
GOOD VIDEO 👍
whats the song in the intro 😫
@@isthisfake. hiii, it's mozart's little funeral march