I don't know why space wolves can run and charge in the same turn when they aren't even noted as a fast legion but the berserker assault army famous for its horde rushes gets Fleet (2) and can't charge if it runs. World Eaters are definitely on the list of legions that need re-examining.
Just… makes… no… sense! Ye I don’t get it either, tbh I don’t know what I’d give wolves but it definitely feels really WE of a rule they currently have Maybe something about multi charging for wolves (pack and all that?)
I love to run 9 Rampagers with Falax Blades, Kharn (with Gorechild), Chaplain and an Apothecary in a Land Raider There's hardly anything that can stand up to that.
World Eaters is one of the legions where both characters on the traitor and loyalist side have something sympathetic if not outright likable about them, except Surlak. Thanks for the video.
100% agree mate, they’re just written in a way that makes you, if not like them, as you say feel sympathy for them. And to get that in a bad guy group is really compelling
Angron getting brutal would turn him into an absolute madman powerhouse. As much as I would love to see him getting it (and it would be fitting since even Russ or Lorgar have it ...), as long as Brutal is this over the top, nothing compares to it kind of rule, I don't think he should have it. Everyone now want brutal on his Primarch and this is kinda depressing to see. I wish I didn't look at Dawnbringer with str 10 AP1 armourbane, ID thinking "well it's still lacking brutal". Otherwise, great and really enjoyabble analysis to watch. Thank you for the awesome content !
Cheers mate! Glad you enjoyed it! I kinda agree tbh, the rules too good and it comes down to (as you say) does it have brutal or not I half like brutal for being… well… brutal… but sorta think maybe the game would be better without it
The one neat thing you can do with Gahlan is add moritats to his despoiler blobs. +1s from their axes +1 from the warlord trait, so they get to ID marines. I don't think it's good enough to bring him as the warlord, but it is pretty neat.
Hahaha that’s such a cool little thing there actually! Wish I had the despoiler numbers to try it actually cos the more I think the more it seems appealing to roll a few despoiler blobs over some termies or something
Khârn is not going to win challanges against someone like Sevatar, Corswain or Sigismund. But you can avoid the challange and just use your Precision strikes to ID them.
A good point mate: its a shame really cos although hes not the best duellist hes the deadliest dude (though maybe his non reactable charges and the Precision as you say make it so!)
@@BearfootMiniatures non reactable charges make him really good. You can really abuse that ability in 2.0 and if you put him in a squad of rampagers he is going to delete enemy units (in CC), especially infantry and terminators.
Great video mate, I am a seasoned World Eater. Already painted 6k points of them, 4 more in making. Played over 20 tournaments so far, most in HH1 with some successes. Regarding HH2, hard to judge really, fixed few things, overall less dmg - no longer mass hatered or Inductii spam also new WS table hits very much the despoilers. Moreover HH2 is even more shooty due to reactions.few things: 1. As per FAQ now fearless units can use legion reaction, meaning you can charge with leviathan or Angron which is just great. 2. WT Blood Hunger, just get the March of the Ancients, get your warlord as contemptor and you have almost unkillable warlord. 3. WT Butchers Claw - lasts entire round. Combos really nice with Rampagers for juicy S8 Meteor Hammers. I5 and you can challenge Custodes in CC 4. Crimson Path - not a big fan, there are better ROWs, so absolutely agree with you. 5. Berzerk Upgrade - literally lobotomizing your HQs. Awful, absolutely. 6. Shame Caedre weapons are only for Power Armor, not terminators. Choice is basically between Meteor hammers and Falax, Exoriator's AP3 and lack of any AP buff crosses it out. Most elite enemy units will have 2+ save. Falax would be nice on Sgts but with powerfist you got 5 attacks on vehicles(yes, spite of the legion on despoilers), which is way better cutting thru them comparing to Falax. 7. Red Butchers, expensive, not much dmg due to terminators having 2W each. With claws even more expensive. WS3 trait hits them hard. Haven't really used them in HH2. They were awesome, now there are just better alternatives. 8. Rampagers - this 3+ save meh killed me :D Great unit, but still not enough dmg as they are only 3+ save. Pretty much glass cannon, but again most enemies got better armor. 9. Hard pass on Red Hand Destroyers. In HH1 they won me games, now they are just WS4, 1W, 3+ and they are expensive. Costs of Caedre weapons on them is just a joke. Overall Legacies are just so badly balanced. 10. Kharn cool for small points games, for bigger games just get Ron. 11. Surlak - awful that his trait is the WT now. Also not really to be seen on the tables. 12. Angron is better than before, but if he loses his guarding unit then he dies easily due to being hit at 3+. Yes, Angron is a unit which includes Angron. Overall World Eaters are not that stong in melee compared to other CC legions. They have great problems reaching enemy lines, but once there the crushing begins. They work pretty well in Drop Pod Assault charning in turn 1 from Kharybdis Hope that helps, cheers!
I have a theory that if you run a large number of concussive weapons to babysit red butchers they become much better. Being treated as WS 3 is much less scary when whatever is attacking them counts as WS 1-4.
TH-cam needs a pin button! Great additions for the guide really mate Not tried the red hand but surprised they’re THAT bad (though I agree with the weaknesses you’ve said, just thought spreading the I5 ID squads may balance back to good)
Thank you for this awesome breakdown. Has anyone mentioned anything about the Sons of Horus legion trait you mention at the beginning? You don’t actually lose it if making a disordered charge. It’s not a bonus applied to the charging unit (which is the only thing a disorganized charge covers) it’s a negative or penalty imposed on the enemy unit which isn’t affected by being disorganized. Keep up the terrific work please!
Hey mate! Sons of Horus rule has been played largely over here atleast as it being stopped by disordered as it’s “all attacks made against the unit” so inherent to the sons of Horus unit I think it probably should be all the time disordered or not but do think it’s cancelled by disordering (as I say happy to be wrong if there’s a clarification of FAQ you can link me)
Something to keep in mind about angron is in a challenge he is hit on ws8 still because you don't use a moddles majority ws when fighting in a challenge. So if you really need to protect him form being hit at ws 3 issue a bunch of challenges and everyone in a challenge hit him at his ws8
Ooooh so you can then just tank the (most) deadly shots, good spot on this rule, actually a really great tip in combats! Can use that one on Sunday when I use angy!
Appreciate the overview as always. On the Movement phase Reactions and Advanced Reactions, the bonus of having two Movement Reactions is that if you have to charge every eligible unit within 12”, it means you have twice as many opportunities to reposition so that the enemy can’t always just set you up to charge exactly what they want you to every turn. It adds a bit more agency to either close distances OR withdraw to be closer to another choice unit. Can be very situational, but for an army that always wants to be within charge range every turn anyway, it can help. Secondly, the Advanced Reaction is not as strong as the Space Wolves one partially because you can double-dip with the same unit and do Advance as a Movement Phase reaction first and then follow up with the World Eaters reaction in the Shooting Phase as well, which is effectively what the Space Wolves one does anyway. Yes you have to spend two reactions on the one unit instead of 1, but you also get the 5+ FNP so it makes up for that. Don’t think WE are particularly strong, but when things click for them on the battlefield they can just steamroll things pretty brutally.
Aaah I didn’t think of that, being able to manipulate where your “forced” to go! It’s similar to how I think mech programmed behaviour isn’t actually that bad a thing! I agree tbh, I think they’re well in the mix but do think they deserve a bit of love from the design team
Just like what the wolves have, except you take more damage and are dependent on your enemy's actions, essentially being just a worse off wolves, how nice.
Mate theyre so compelling as a legion with how their fall is written, from nuceria finding angron to the seige And seeing their degradation across the series is one of the better parts of the entire heresy for me tbh
@@BearfootMiniatures I literally started HH because of Surlak and Inductii and the HH 1 ability where apothecaries can rev the nails for an extra attack but on a 1 their heads explode. Sadly Surlak is MoL HQ now and the character makes no sense in 2.0
I find Movement Reactions to be the best in the game given how you dictate board control. Yeah you lose Evade and Hold the Line etc but I’d argue World Eaters need the movement more, particularly when you’re near objectives and enemies are too scared to come near you in case you yeet towards them. If an enemy really wants you dead then in my exp with WE, Evade won’t really help too much anyway. Great video!!
It may just be me playing Shooting mainly with IW and solar, hopefully I can rectify it more playing WE more and expanding mu combat IW! I think I just need to concentrate on those situations more
Yeah its great for red butchers who are normally slow. They land in a dreadclaw, if anything moves around them they get closer, with a move reaction, and then when they get shot at I use the WE reaction to give them Feel No Pain 5+ and charge in!
Great analysis as usual👍🏻. They really need to have a look at ravening madmen, I’ve run it a few times and I don’t see the value. I wish it did something else, like +1 to initiative when you charge. That would tie in with the lore of the world eaters sprinting forward and smashing in to their enemies without worrying about their own self preservation 😂. After you finished the legions some other sit and chat content would be great, I’ve learnt loads watching you and your guests breakdown the legions. More content like that would be cool.
Yeah it’s one of those rules that’s kind of cool as an idea but sorely lacks in execution. For a melee army, WE sorely lack much Initiative 5 models, and for the price you’re paying for Red Butchers to hit at Init 1 with those axes means they’re not great going into most Legions’ elite melee units. The other way they could’ve done it is give them like a 4+ Feel No Pain the turn they charge or get charged, or maybe even some rule where they always get to strike at I1 even if they’ve already been cut down in combat. Basically love the idea of them being so full of rage they only attack and don’t defend themselves, but the current rules are virtually worthless since it effectively does nothing in most instances mathematically.
Ye 100% on the madmen, I wouldn’t be mad at the +1I atall tbh not a bad idea And with the strike even when dead/FNP on the charge All would get across that brutal charge or ferociousness of the Weaters Agreed on the butchers, they’d prob be better with falax axes (blades) even I think cos it’d give them a niche over other terminator types
The two legion weapons that are basically the same, the hook and the meteor hammer are slightly different. The hammer is breaching and the hooks rending and fleshbane. Breaching isn't as good a rule, unless it works differently with flesh bane?
@@BearfootMiniatures I was looking at the unit from a killing dreadnoughts in melee perspective, so I prefer the hooks. Way too many dreadnoughts in my meta!
Mate I need to get me some rampagers tbh, my main experience playing (rather than facing) is with a very 1.0 despoiler army (that can be seen on channel) Would love to run a rampaged heavy force!
@@BearfootMiniatures My opponent had a Chaplain and Apothecary with them. Used a Land Raider as a wall to hid them from my first turn of shooting. Then proceeded to jump pack over the raider and introduce themselves to my Contemptor. Poor thing was ripped apart and didn't even kill one in return. Charged the Leviathanin, killed 3. Murdered in return. 2nd Contemptor lasted about as long as the other dreads and faired about as well. They are a blender that will reduce any unit they touch to red mist.
![ลองสุ่มไอโฟน 990 โกงมั้ย? [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.101 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfsWe0j492k/mqdefault.jpg)
I don't know why space wolves can run and charge in the same turn when they aren't even noted as a fast legion but the berserker assault army famous for its horde rushes gets Fleet (2) and can't charge if it runs.
World Eaters are definitely on the list of legions that need re-examining.
Just… makes… no… sense!
Ye I don’t get it either, tbh I don’t know what I’d give wolves but it definitely feels really WE of a rule they currently have
Maybe something about multi charging for wolves (pack and all that?)
I love to run 9 Rampagers with Falax Blades, Kharn (with Gorechild), Chaplain and an Apothecary in a Land Raider
There's hardly anything that can stand up to that.
Ah yes, the “fuck you, here’s a walking wood chipper” unit.
the bad part about these videos is that it makes me want to make a force of whichever legion you're talking about!
Haha glad I could throw that wobble into your mind each time mate, going over them does the same to me!
World Eaters is one of the legions where both characters on the traitor and loyalist side have something sympathetic if not outright likable about them, except Surlak. Thanks for the video.
100% agree mate, they’re just written in a way that makes you, if not like them, as you say feel sympathy for them.
And to get that in a bad guy group is really compelling
Angron getting brutal would turn him into an absolute madman powerhouse. As much as I would love to see him getting it (and it would be fitting since even Russ or Lorgar have it ...), as long as Brutal is this over the top, nothing compares to it kind of rule, I don't think he should have it.
Everyone now want brutal on his Primarch and this is kinda depressing to see. I wish I didn't look at Dawnbringer with str 10 AP1 armourbane, ID thinking "well it's still lacking brutal".
Otherwise, great and really enjoyabble analysis to watch.
Thank you for the awesome content !
Cheers mate! Glad you enjoyed it!
I kinda agree tbh, the rules too good and it comes down to (as you say) does it have brutal or not
I half like brutal for being… well… brutal… but sorta think maybe the game would be better without it
Thanks for this ONE! Your Videos are really Good! Learning alot!
This was a great video for information thanks
The one neat thing you can do with Gahlan is add moritats to his despoiler blobs. +1s from their axes +1 from the warlord trait, so they get to ID marines.
I don't think it's good enough to bring him as the warlord, but it is pretty neat.
Hahaha that’s such a cool little thing there actually! Wish I had the despoiler numbers to try it actually cos the more I think the more it seems appealing to roll a few despoiler blobs over some termies or something
Khârn is not going to win challanges against someone like Sevatar, Corswain or Sigismund. But you can avoid the challange and just use your Precision strikes to ID them.
A good point mate: its a shame really cos although hes not the best duellist hes the deadliest dude (though maybe his non reactable charges and the Precision as you say make it so!)
@@BearfootMiniatures non reactable charges make him really good. You can really abuse that ability in 2.0 and if you put him in a squad of rampagers he is going to delete enemy units (in CC), especially infantry and terminators.
Great video mate, I am a seasoned World Eater. Already painted 6k points of them, 4 more in making. Played over 20 tournaments so far, most in HH1 with some successes.
Regarding HH2, hard to judge really, fixed few things, overall less dmg - no longer mass hatered or Inductii spam also new WS table hits very much the despoilers. Moreover HH2 is even more shooty due to reactions.few things:
1. As per FAQ now fearless units can use legion reaction, meaning you can charge with leviathan or Angron which is just great.
2. WT Blood Hunger, just get the March of the Ancients, get your warlord as contemptor and you have almost unkillable warlord.
3. WT Butchers Claw - lasts entire round. Combos really nice with Rampagers for juicy S8 Meteor Hammers. I5 and you can challenge Custodes in CC
4. Crimson Path - not a big fan, there are better ROWs, so absolutely agree with you.
5. Berzerk Upgrade - literally lobotomizing your HQs. Awful, absolutely.
6. Shame Caedre weapons are only for Power Armor, not terminators. Choice is basically between Meteor hammers and Falax, Exoriator's AP3 and lack of any AP buff crosses it out. Most elite enemy units will have 2+ save.
Falax would be nice on Sgts but with powerfist you got 5 attacks on vehicles(yes, spite of the legion on despoilers), which is way better cutting thru them comparing to Falax.
7. Red Butchers, expensive, not much dmg due to terminators having 2W each. With claws even more expensive. WS3 trait hits them hard. Haven't really used them in HH2. They were awesome, now there are just better alternatives.
8. Rampagers - this 3+ save meh killed me :D Great unit, but still not enough dmg as they are only 3+ save. Pretty much glass cannon, but again most enemies got better armor.
9. Hard pass on Red Hand Destroyers. In HH1 they won me games, now they are just WS4, 1W, 3+ and they are expensive. Costs of Caedre weapons on them is just a joke. Overall Legacies are just so badly balanced.
10. Kharn cool for small points games, for bigger games just get Ron.
11. Surlak - awful that his trait is the WT now. Also not really to be seen on the tables.
12. Angron is better than before, but if he loses his guarding unit then he dies easily due to being hit at 3+. Yes, Angron is a unit which includes Angron.
Overall World Eaters are not that stong in melee compared to other CC legions. They have great problems reaching enemy lines, but once there the crushing begins. They work pretty well in Drop Pod Assault charning in turn 1 from Kharybdis
Hope that helps, cheers!
I have a theory that if you run a large number of concussive weapons to babysit red butchers they become much better. Being treated as WS 3 is much less scary when whatever is attacking them counts as WS 1-4.
TH-cam needs a pin button! Great additions for the guide really mate
Not tried the red hand but surprised they’re THAT bad (though I agree with the weaknesses you’ve said, just thought spreading the I5 ID squads may balance back to good)
Oooh interesting on the concussive aswell! Worth a try when it’s such a down side tbh!
Thank you for this awesome breakdown.
Has anyone mentioned anything about the Sons of Horus legion trait you mention at the beginning? You don’t actually lose it if making a disordered charge. It’s not a bonus applied to the charging unit (which is the only thing a disorganized charge covers) it’s a negative or penalty imposed on the enemy unit which isn’t affected by being disorganized.
Keep up the terrific work please!
Hey mate!
Sons of Horus rule has been played largely over here atleast as it being stopped by disordered as it’s “all attacks made against the unit” so inherent to the sons of Horus unit
I think it probably should be all the time disordered or not but do think it’s cancelled by disordering (as I say happy to be wrong if there’s a clarification of FAQ you can link me)
Something to keep in mind about angron is in a challenge he is hit on ws8 still because you don't use a moddles majority ws when fighting in a challenge. So if you really need to protect him form being hit at ws 3 issue a bunch of challenges and everyone in a challenge hit him at his ws8
Ooooh so you can then just tank the (most) deadly shots, good spot on this rule, actually a really great tip in combats! Can use that one on Sunday when I use angy!
Ohhh. I didn't know that, time to re read the rules. Thank you very much
Appreciate the overview as always. On the Movement phase Reactions and Advanced Reactions, the bonus of having two Movement Reactions is that if you have to charge every eligible unit within 12”, it means you have twice as many opportunities to reposition so that the enemy can’t always just set you up to charge exactly what they want you to every turn. It adds a bit more agency to either close distances OR withdraw to be closer to another choice unit. Can be very situational, but for an army that always wants to be within charge range every turn anyway, it can help.
Secondly, the Advanced Reaction is not as strong as the Space Wolves one partially because you can double-dip with the same unit and do Advance as a Movement Phase reaction first and then follow up with the World Eaters reaction in the Shooting Phase as well, which is effectively what the Space Wolves one does anyway.
Yes you have to spend two reactions on the one unit instead of 1, but you also get the 5+ FNP so it makes up for that.
Don’t think WE are particularly strong, but when things click for them on the battlefield they can just steamroll things pretty brutally.
Aaah I didn’t think of that, being able to manipulate where your “forced” to go! It’s similar to how I think mech programmed behaviour isn’t actually that bad a thing!
I agree tbh, I think they’re well in the mix but do think they deserve a bit of love from the design team
Just like what the wolves have, except you take more damage and are dependent on your enemy's actions, essentially being just a worse off wolves, how nice.
Its my legion turn... sadly many people think they are mid to low tier... but I still love them the raving mad psychopaths that they are.
Mate theyre so compelling as a legion with how their fall is written, from nuceria finding angron to the seige
And seeing their degradation across the series is one of the better parts of the entire heresy for me tbh
@@BearfootMiniatures I literally started HH because of Surlak and Inductii and the HH 1 ability where apothecaries can rev the nails for an extra attack but on a 1 their heads explode. Sadly Surlak is MoL HQ now and the character makes no sense in 2.0
Awesome one of my armies :) Any chance to get Emperors Children as well?
Will be doing them soon mate! Studios set up to crack out EC and 1k sons this week hopefully!
Oi lad your channel is legend so glad I found it you always do amazing
Cheers mate glad your enjoying them!
I find Movement Reactions to be the best in the game given how you dictate board control. Yeah you lose Evade and Hold the Line etc but I’d argue World Eaters need the movement more, particularly when you’re near objectives and enemies are too scared to come near you in case you yeet towards them. If an enemy really wants you dead then in my exp with WE, Evade won’t really help too much anyway. Great video!!
It may just be me playing Shooting mainly with IW and solar, hopefully I can rectify it more playing WE more and expanding mu combat IW!
I think I just need to concentrate on those situations more
Yeah its great for red butchers who are normally slow. They land in a dreadclaw, if anything moves around them they get closer, with a move reaction, and then when they get shot at I use the WE reaction to give them Feel No Pain 5+ and charge in!
Kharn doesn't have Eternal Warrior because he dies in the fluff, but is brought back to life by Khorne!
Ye I suppose, just sorta rubbish really
I sorta feel he dies too easy in the fluff aswell, I mean he’s Khornes champion!
@BearfootMiniatures True, but he died to Sigismund with the Black Sword. I’d argue that’s a pretty good reason to die.
Great analysis as usual👍🏻. They really need to have a look at ravening madmen, I’ve run it a few times and I don’t see the value. I wish it did something else, like +1 to initiative when you charge. That would tie in with the lore of the world eaters sprinting forward and smashing in to their enemies without worrying about their own self preservation 😂.
After you finished the legions some other sit and chat content would be great, I’ve learnt loads watching you and your guests breakdown the legions. More content like that would be cool.
Yeah it’s one of those rules that’s kind of cool as an idea but sorely lacks in execution.
For a melee army, WE sorely lack much Initiative 5 models, and for the price you’re paying for Red Butchers to hit at Init 1 with those axes means they’re not great going into most Legions’ elite melee units.
The other way they could’ve done it is give them like a 4+ Feel No Pain the turn they charge or get charged, or maybe even some rule where they always get to strike at I1 even if they’ve already been cut down in combat.
Basically love the idea of them being so full of rage they only attack and don’t defend themselves, but the current rules are virtually worthless since it effectively does nothing in most instances mathematically.
Ye 100% on the madmen, I wouldn’t be mad at the +1I atall tbh not a bad idea
And with the strike even when dead/FNP on the charge
All would get across that brutal charge or ferociousness of the Weaters
Agreed on the butchers, they’d prob be better with falax axes (blades) even I think cos it’d give them a niche over other terminator types
It amazes me how Imperial Fists, aka the SHOOTING FOCUSED LEGION, have better melee Terminators than the goddamned WORLD EATERS.
You can use a movement reaction to embark a transport.
Is a big one this! I need to start taking advantage of it more I think
The two legion weapons that are basically the same, the hook and the meteor hammer are slightly different.
The hammer is breaching and the hooks rending and fleshbane. Breaching isn't as good a rule, unless it works differently with flesh bane?
Ye I think the two weapons basically just comes down to the ID threshold being reached by a meteor hammer tbh
@@BearfootMiniatures I was looking at the unit from a killing dreadnoughts in melee perspective, so I prefer the hooks. Way too many dreadnoughts in my meta!
Thank you!
Cheers for watching mate!
When.a unit of Falx Rampagers tears apart 2 Contemptors and a Leviathan over the course of a game...
Mate I need to get me some rampagers tbh, my main experience playing (rather than facing) is with a very 1.0 despoiler army (that can be seen on channel)
Would love to run a rampaged heavy force!
@@BearfootMiniatures My opponent had a Chaplain and Apothecary with them. Used a Land Raider as a wall to hid them from my first turn of shooting. Then proceeded to jump pack over the raider and introduce themselves to my Contemptor. Poor thing was ripped apart and didn't even kill one in return. Charged the Leviathanin, killed 3. Murdered in return. 2nd Contemptor lasted about as long as the other dreads and faired about as well.
They are a blender that will reduce any unit they touch to red mist.
Approve.
Ka-dare-ray 😉