This completely. When someone cheats they lose their right to compete on the score board. Plus it'll be fun to see who the first really win comes from!
Honestly, I like this idea because sometimes I get rating back and look at the game and it’s clearly my fault that I lost. Just got lucky this person cheated.
@@essaysandmore right but cheaters play near perfectly, put the pressure on and capitalize on any mistake we make while making no mistakes themselves. Also keep in mind if they were not cheating you'd likely not have reached the position where you blundered.
Think a refund counter would be a nice middle way. Maybe analyze the game and try to see if you can find something fishy to make some extra content would be cool. No need to apologize Eric, we are blessed having you here. Take your time making videos🙂
I really admire the humility in not calling cheat and snatching at the win streak, but at the very least the result of that game can be considered void
@@randerson5172 IIRC He once played against a very suspicious player, who allegedly argued he was checking his rice cooker during the game, and the name just stuck around with the audience as a substitute for 'cheating'
Part of playing chess is learning to lose gracefully. Your videos are awesome. Even if it was a legit loss, it wouldn’t change my appreciation for the series or enjoyment I get from watching your videos.
I like the idea of leaving the video as is. It's educative, and it shows a good example of the right mental attitude to have when an opponent is playing "suspiciously" well ; assume they are human, and play for the fun and learning of chess.
Hardly. Most comments said he was cheating. It's a balancing act between not giving credit that's undue when fair play policy is violated and not just accusing every underdog of losing (Especially if it's when facing a popular streamer)
You could rule the game as "no contest". It's originally a combat sports term, which is used when neither of the fighters can be declares as a winner, but fight also isn't a draw.
I had my suspicions when watching the game, glad to see it was confirmed. Your streak stands. I would eliminate the loss from the record... but maybe add a dirty flag column for the second game today! ;)
In competitions in general, if one side cheats, the other side is credited with a win. Eric would have grounds for saying that the game belongs to him, but IMHO, the right call is just to remove the game altogether from the streak. He didn't win the game, but neither did he lose within the rules. That is what the streak should reflect, but I do understand his reticence to do so. He's a nice guy, and a class act.
I was hollering E5, thought I must have missed something when it wasn't considered, then felt really awesome when the analysis thought it was great. :)
Maybe I'm paranoid but especially after looking with an engine I think that last game was against a cheater. I know Eric doesn't want to accuse and I won't either but I want to make my suspicions known. Reasoning: 0) I had a hunch and was suspicious not even half way through the game so I looked closer with an engine. 1) At the end when both were low on time they still played very slowly. 2) Relatively low amount of games on account and very high win rate. 3) Moves such as 12. Qe1 were top engine moves whilst very hard to see/understand. 4) Drawing (until time trouble) the significantly higher level player that is Eric
@@hobosaur4250 I don’t know why people like you still cannot comprehend the fact that when you cheat, you don’t necessarily run the engine the entire game
I was also suspicious throughout the game, but the end game really cemented it for me. I can't imagine a 1900 playing that slow of an end game and not at least trying to trade the pieces before their time runs out
@@kieranmaguire116 exactly. What’s even more suspicious is how quickly he was playing out the opening and critical moves, but somehow wasn’t able to move quick enough when low on the clock. He turned from a quick tactical blitz player into a slow boomer classical enthusiast in a span of one game.
After seeing in the comments that the ”Ouch” account was created something like two weeks earlier the refund was not surprising. I vote for deleting the game from the stats. And while you’re updating, the three games from ep 56 are missing from the ”Wins”. :) Thanks for the new episode!
I agree with most of the previous comments. Wins: 171, draws: 0, losses: 0, games against cheaters: (at least) 1. Watched every single episode of the speedrun, love it!
The speedrun content is a very welcome return to my subscription alerts, Eric. Good on you for moving passed the cheating prick and keeping the unbeaten run dream alive.
I'm calling suspicious again on this one. Account is less than 90 days old. From June to August has gained 400+ ELO. It's also not like they were undefeated against 1500s and 1600s. Doesnt look like someone who is just 2000 legit who switched from lichess. No one can gain 400 ELO at that level in only 90 days.
I vote to record it as a Rating Refund. Rational is that your rating does nor include the refund. So, adding the new category aligns with your W/L/D stats. Love your channel by the way
hey Eric, thanks for your cooperation with chessmood, i improved a lot. Why you ALWAYS play sicilian as black in the last episode? How about some E6 openings? Love Ulrich
I was pleased to find the e5 move in the first game; in fact, I'd started to write a comment about it but remembered you'd probably cover it in the post-game review. And I agree with others that you should remove the voided 'loss'. Perhaps you could refer to it verbally from time to time, as you do when you mention how your opponents have their ratings refunded after playing you.
Maybe remove separate tallies for wins/losses; as you said the focus is really just on the games themselves and learning increasingly advanced ideas as the rating increases. For stats to display, maybe just show the total count of games played and a very simple line graph of your rating? The wins/losses/streak doesn't seem important to me -- I just enjoy watching each game you play and hearing your thoughts and commentary.
Please continue these videos to as high of a rating ELO that you feel like. And then start a new speed run. I will continue watching all of these videos until the day I die
Props to the first opponent for defending against your barrage of mate threats. Also would just forget that "loss" ever happened. Losses only count if they defeat you fair and square.
Keeping as is is the simplest option and makes perfect sense from the point of viewing the speed run episodes. Even though you lost to a cheater / engine / Magnus Carlsen the game is in the history and I hope you have no plans of snipping it out 😀. I learn not only from your wins, but from losses too. I care about mindset the most.
Of course it doesn’t count as a loss, bro! Understand being hesitant to remove it from the record, but your points were refunded and he was clearly cheating
That game was sooooo fishy, there is absolutely no chance that was a legitimate game especially as the account was banned shortly after. STRIKE THE LOSS!!!
To leave the loss is unfair to the first person that DOES beat you! So you lost to stockfish. Big whup. I think everyone agrees-- let the streak continue!
Personally I think leaving the loss in the record with the rating refund counter is the right thing to do. I don't like effectively saying that game never happened, even though the opponent was cheating. There's still plenty to learn from it and I think it's the most accurate way to represent your stats from this run. Unrelated, I'd love to see analysis of some of the games from the STLCC blitz event earlier this year. I got to play against you and it'd be really cool to see what sort of games everyone played!
On another stream I saw someone put cheats in their own category. I think that's the most fair way to do it because it acknowledges what happened more than just forgetting the game existed. If someone saw a loss and is confused why it was no longer on there, that'd explain it.
Best approach is to just carry on and not sweat the small stuff. Second option is to void the game, as if it had never occurred. You might, if it's easy to do, add a category for "Voided Games" and give a count. All that said, you know you're gonna lose eventually. Once you start hitting 1800+ players, random chance, if nothing else, will get you.
It's amazing you made it 170 games without running into a cheater. When I play it happens roughly 50% of the time (haha j/k). But seriously other speedrunners clearly run into cheaters more often than 1/170 so yeah I think you should account for this and make a category specifically for cheaters - like rating refund matches sounds good).
Rating refund would be funnier and more memey, but I don't think I'm worried one way or the other what you do with the "loss". I'll keep watching either way!
![TEEDEE TADA - DIAMOND NARAKORN X LEGO LYKN [Special Dance Performance]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QgtZedFeumA/mqdefault.jpg)
172 wins, 0 draws, 0 losses, 1 Oh no their account
😆
Yes, absolutely lmfao
this is the best option 😆
This is the way
This is the best one
The cheater should not be acknowledged in future videos. The first PERSON to beat you deserves the first tick in your loss bucket. Love the content!
That's a great point actually, I totally agree
Indeed don't deprive the fame of the first person who beats you fair and square!
This is the best argument for removing the loss and restoring the streak.
This completely. When someone cheats they lose their right to compete on the score board. Plus it'll be fun to see who the first really win comes from!
Agree with the above comment.
I would say eliminate the loss and the streak continues
Definitely. The rating was refunded so the game didn't count.
Agreed, the points got refunded, that game essentially didn't happen.
Don’t overthink it. This is simple. Do as advised above.
Absolutely!!!!
Liking this so he sees but definitely shouldn’t count towards a loss
Consider it a game that never occurred
I'd just void the game
I like the 1 rating refund category. It says everything that needs saying without saying it .
Love it. Perfect.
This is why we watch. So good-natured Eric! Love to see it - 0 losses
100% agree
remove the loss and let the streak continue!
Yep, add an asterisk
i really like the idea of "1 rating refund" off to the side. I think it covers all of your bases without outright saying they cheated against you :D
Honestly, I like this idea because sometimes I get rating back and look at the game and it’s clearly my fault that I lost. Just got lucky this person cheated.
I think this is a very reasonable idea, also saves from having this discussion for future incidents
Definitely like this, especially since that game was super instructive, even if they did (probably) cheat to win.
Yeah, this. Do not flag it as a loss (keep 0 losses) but add a "1 refunded loss" in a corner
@@essaysandmore right but cheaters play near perfectly, put the pressure on and capitalize on any mistake we make while making no mistakes themselves. Also keep in mind if they were not cheating you'd likely not have reached the position where you blundered.
Think a refund counter would be a nice middle way.
Maybe analyze the game and try to see if you can find something fishy to make some extra content would be cool.
No need to apologize Eric, we are blessed having you here. Take your time making videos🙂
I really admire the humility in not calling cheat and snatching at the win streak, but at the very least the result of that game can be considered void
Adding a rating refund category is important, it acknowledges what happened without making a fuss
For the lost game: I think restarting the speedrun would be a fair way to solve this situation
Finally someone making some sense around here!
Why the heck should he do that?
@@denaro572 its a joke, it would be nice for the viewers to have another speedrun series to watch. It's obviously crazy, unless....
The first "Speedrun" episode was released on September 27, 2023, 310 days ago. You can't flush all that work down the drain.
@@denaro572 look up the words wit, humour, and joke. They might come in useful if you play scrabble someday.
NM Nelson from Chess Vibes has a "rice" category for 'suspicious play'; I think some similar would do.
🤣🤣🤣🤣 We watch the same chess influencers, Nelson and Eric. My fav
Why rice?
@@randerson5172 IIRC He once played against a very suspicious player, who allegedly argued he was checking his rice cooker during the game, and the name just stuck around with the audience as a substitute for 'cheating'
Part of playing chess is learning to lose gracefully. Your videos are awesome. Even if it was a legit loss, it wouldn’t change my appreciation for the series or enjoyment I get from watching your videos.
Glad you got out and had adventures, glad to have you back.
I like the idea of leaving the video as is. It's educative, and it shows a good example of the right mental attitude to have when an opponent is playing "suspiciously" well ; assume they are human, and play for the fun and learning of chess.
*Educational ❤️
Do both options. Put the loss back to 0 and game refund to 1, either way we all know what happened, keep up the great content Eric
1 rating refund category is hilarious hahahha pleeaaaaassseee
Change “1 loss” to “1 sus loss”
Win, lose or draw, your the man Eric. These speedruns have taught me so many things. I so appreciate you....
I like how in the original video some people were saying the opponent was legit
Hardly. Most comments said he was cheating. It's a balancing act between not giving credit that's undue when fair play policy is violated and not just accusing every underdog of losing (Especially if it's when facing a popular streamer)
Adding "rating refund" seems like the best way to deal with it.
Thanks for the upload! Was missing this series.
Eric, there’s another problem with your speedrun stats: at the end of video 56 you had 173 wins.
Eric, your streak is more sacred than the Undertaker's at this point! 😅
You could rule the game as "no contest". It's originally a combat sports term, which is used when neither of the fighters can be declares as a winner, but fight also isn't a draw.
I had my suspicions when watching the game, glad to see it was confirmed. Your streak stands. I would eliminate the loss from the record... but maybe add a dirty flag column for the second game today! ;)
In competitions in general, if one side cheats, the other side is credited with a win. Eric would have grounds for saying that the game belongs to him, but IMHO, the right call is just to remove the game altogether from the streak. He didn't win the game, but neither did he lose within the rules. That is what the streak should reflect, but I do understand his reticence to do so. He's a nice guy, and a class act.
I was hollering E5, thought I must have missed something when it wasn't considered, then felt really awesome when the analysis thought it was great. :)
Maybe I'm paranoid but especially after looking with an engine I think that last game was against a cheater. I know Eric doesn't want to accuse and I won't either but I want to make my suspicions known.
Reasoning:
0) I had a hunch and was suspicious not even half way through the game so I looked closer with an engine.
1) At the end when both were low on time they still played very slowly.
2) Relatively low amount of games on account and very high win rate.
3) Moves such as 12. Qe1 were top engine moves whilst very hard to see/understand.
4) Drawing (until time trouble) the significantly higher level player that is Eric
Oh, 2nd game was definitely an “interesting” player
Except that they straight up hung a rook in the end game
@@hobosaur4250 I don’t know why people like you still cannot comprehend the fact that when you cheat, you don’t necessarily run the engine the entire game
I was also suspicious throughout the game, but the end game really cemented it for me.
I can't imagine a 1900 playing that slow of an end game and not at least trying to trade the pieces before their time runs out
@@kieranmaguire116 exactly. What’s even more suspicious is how quickly he was playing out the opening and critical moves, but somehow wasn’t able to move quick enough when low on the clock.
He turned from a quick tactical blitz player into a slow boomer classical enthusiast in a span of one game.
After seeing in the comments that the ”Ouch” account was created something like two weeks earlier the refund was not surprising. I vote for deleting the game from the stats. And while you’re updating, the three games from ep 56 are missing from the ”Wins”. :) Thanks for the new episode!
I agree with most of the previous comments. Wins: 171, draws: 0, losses: 0, games against cheaters: (at least) 1. Watched every single episode of the speedrun, love it!
The speedrun content is a very welcome return to my subscription alerts, Eric. Good on you for moving passed the cheating prick and keeping the unbeaten run dream alive.
rating refund count makes sense to me
Excited for the new episode. Good luck in Norway!
What a great second game!
Who is this shaven impostor? None but Eric "Blackbeard" Rosen is allowed to command this vessel, sir!
You mean shaven?
@@ferafona But that's what I said 👀
[Corrected. Thanks!]
Wow. The second one was intense. Loved it!
I'm calling suspicious again on this one. Account is less than 90 days old. From June to August has gained 400+ ELO. It's also not like they were undefeated against 1500s and 1600s. Doesnt look like someone who is just 2000 legit who switched from lichess. No one can gain 400 ELO at that level in only 90 days.
I would list the "loss" as a "no contest" or "rating refund," I think.
The streak lives!
Removing the loss entirely or adding a 'rating refund' category works imo. Maybe the latter is preferred.
Keeping the episode for my diner tonight :) Thanks for posting Eric
I vote to record it as a Rating Refund. Rational is that your rating does nor include the refund. So, adding the new category aligns with your W/L/D stats. Love your channel by the way
Good luck in Norway! Get rid of the loss, cheaters should not count.
hey Eric, thanks for your cooperation with chessmood, i improved a lot. Why you ALWAYS play sicilian as black in the last episode? How about some E6 openings? Love Ulrich
Thanks
Nice to see you back Eric.
6:25 e5 with the idea of bd6 trapping the queen would have been nice
Cheaters will be cheating, teachers will be teaching. Don't give too much thought to it and continue your awesome speedrun!
I was pleased to find the e5 move in the first game; in fact, I'd started to write a comment about it but remembered you'd probably cover it in the post-game review.
And I agree with others that you should remove the voided 'loss'. Perhaps you could refer to it verbally from time to time, as you do when you mention how your opponents have their ratings refunded after playing you.
Of course 0 losses, happy for a new episode!!
That game was exciting and instructive. I think you should make a Refound counter
I think RR would make sense to see how many of such incidents will happen, especially if there will be another speedruns in the future
Maybe remove separate tallies for wins/losses; as you said the focus is really just on the games themselves and learning increasingly advanced ideas as the rating increases. For stats to display, maybe just show the total count of games played and a very simple line graph of your rating? The wins/losses/streak doesn't seem important to me -- I just enjoy watching each game you play and hearing your thoughts and commentary.
Man, shout out to Eric's parents for raising such a cool dude.
Rating refund also covers if you get paired with another speedrunner unknowingly.
Please continue these videos to as high of a rating ELO that you feel like. And then start a new speed run. I will continue watching all of these videos until the day I die
Props to the first opponent for defending against your barrage of mate threats. Also would just forget that "loss" ever happened. Losses only count if they defeat you fair and square.
Lol Erics too nice. Used the word assistance rather than cheating 🤣
Oh yes my Eric is back!
Keeping as is is the simplest option and makes perfect sense from the point of viewing the speed run episodes. Even though you lost to a cheater / engine / Magnus Carlsen the game is in the history and I hope you have no plans of snipping it out 😀. I learn not only from your wins, but from losses too. I care about mindset the most.
170 wins 0 loss 0 draws 1 rating refund. That's how it should look at beginning of this episode
@41:24 you had checkmate when they moved their rook to G1. You could have moved your rook to H2 instead of taking. Am I the only one who saw this?
No because his rook is then pinned to his king. Moving his rook to H2 would put him in check.
The g2 rook is pinned to the black king, Rh2 is not legal.
vinnnndiCAAATIONNNNN!!!!!! (-the great Andre Braugher)
No contest. Zero losses.
Another vote that a loss to a cheater is not counted as a loss against the streak.
You get the elo back, you should get the win back
175 wins, actually... cause at the end of episode 56 the win count was already 173.
Like they do with baseball records, put an asterisk on the loss. That fixes everything.
Of course it doesn’t count as a loss, bro! Understand being hesitant to remove it from the record, but your points were refunded and he was clearly cheating
Let the streak continue!
That game was sooooo fishy, there is absolutely no chance that was a legitimate game especially as the account was banned shortly after. STRIKE THE LOSS!!!
I agree with others...It shouldn't be classed as a loss. Give credit to whoever may be the genuine first person to beat you.
Yayyyyy the speedrun is backkkkk!
To leave the loss is unfair to the first person that DOES beat you! So you lost to stockfish. Big whup. I think everyone agrees-- let the streak continue!
Am I missing something or was 36:16 mate in 1? Also I say wipe the loss since you were refunded the points. Glad the speedrun is back!
I think there’s no RH2# because the rook is pinned
Eric, please don't remove the game from this channel. Even a loss against a computer is instructive.
OMG YESSSSS!!!! MY DAY IS COMPLETE!!!!
Speedrun❤❤❤
Personally I think leaving the loss in the record with the rating refund counter is the right thing to do. I don't like effectively saying that game never happened, even though the opponent was cheating. There's still plenty to learn from it and I think it's the most accurate way to represent your stats from this run.
Unrelated, I'd love to see analysis of some of the games from the STLCC blitz event earlier this year. I got to play against you and it'd be really cool to see what sort of games everyone played!
The guy took C.E.Ds (chess enhancing directions) To gain an advantage.. either remove the loss or add a category for it like you said
You forgot to add the 3 wins from episode 56 to the score. You should be at 175 wins.
On another stream I saw someone put cheats in their own category. I think that's the most fair way to do it because it acknowledges what happened more than just forgetting the game existed. If someone saw a loss and is confused why it was no longer on there, that'd explain it.
Maybe a separate category: "Losses to Engines"?
Best approach is to just carry on and not sweat the small stuff. Second option is to void the game, as if it had never occurred. You might, if it's easy to do, add a category for "Voided Games" and give a count. All that said, you know you're gonna lose eventually. Once you start hitting 1800+ players, random chance, if nothing else, will get you.
It's amazing you made it 170 games without running into a cheater. When I play it happens roughly 50% of the time (haha j/k). But seriously other speedrunners clearly run into cheaters more often than 1/170 so yeah I think you should account for this and make a category specifically for cheaters - like rating refund matches sounds good).
Forget about the "rating refunded" counter; I think we're all waiting for the Dirty Flag counter
So impressive!
By your opponents too!
They cheated, that isn't a loss because it wasn't a fair game. The streak continues!
Only reasonable answer: the game never happened.
Keep the streak!
You needed to move that Knight for ten moves!
Rating refund would be funnier and more memey, but I don't think I'm worried one way or the other what you do with the "loss". I'll keep watching either way!
Void the game, the streak continues!
zero losses! i see the comments are divided run a community poll maybe?
Add a category: "Losses to cheaters: "
The streak continues, cheaters don't get acknowledged.
Glad I spotted the hanging rook. haha
you are so big
long live Rosen❤
Oh no my queen 😂