This is the least sure I’ve been about a magic system when making a video like this. You don’t get repeated straight forward explanations within Malazan like you do WoT, so if I made any mistakes please leave them here! Special thank you to Andy Smith for helping make this: th-cam.com/channels/w9jFR-Nd_PxHkwS9MQ1pIg.html
Hi Daniel ! I'm sorry for getting a bit out of topic, but I watched your last video and Mr. Winter spoke about Cradle series, have you ever read the books ? Thanks!
I think it's best to think about warrens and holds as places. There is inherent power in everything, and when a magic user does his thing he opens the way to one of those places and draws power from it, and since warrens and holds are "aspected" the power they draw is related to that aspect. If you draw from the warren of shadow you will be able to do things related to shadows, because that is the "flavour" of the power in that realm.
Have you already read the Fall of light? The magic system got soo much more confusing there 😀 Eg. difference betwren elder warrens/holds and warrens gets so blurry. Also it raises so many questions about the different worlds...are they one? Where are they? Were they one and got separated? After that book I lost all my understanding 😀
Large amounts of reading between the lines on my part but: So from the way they work dead on but there is a continued theme in the magic as there was a third level of magic called wanderings that was before even the holds. From a thematic sense in the beginning there was only chaos in the multiverse then there was a randomly a bit of order, these were the realms/wanderings coming in to existence. Everything moving chaos eats at the edge of existence slowly returning it to chaos. The realms moved a lot at this point relative to each other everything in flux. The Azath are beings that connected these loosely existing "seas" of existence together to create the holds "land" (elder earth goddess is the "main" world in that existence is tied to her body) existence is ruled over by their cousins the Azath'nai (the elder gods), but existence is still slowly being eaten by chaos at the edges, their existence while seemingly long in time is inevitably doomed. Everything will return to chaos eventually. Note there is chaos as a bigger concept but in existence it became personified by an elder goddess (tiam) and her children the dragons. K'rul has a plan to try and counter this, he creates the warrens to solidify the land and make it more resistant to chaos which he does by allying with embodiments of chaos, dragons (the eleint), to create paths the connect through all reality tying existence together and binding the personified elder god of chaos to protect existence. He succeeds initially use his blood and body to create the warrens (paths, roads, caves through the land tying the multiverse together). However eventually the curse of the high king Kallor causes him to fade from memory significantly weakening himself the warrens and their stabilizing factor on existence around the time of the first book in the series. Or something like that.
@@DanielGreeneReviews As far as you can explain a magic system thats never concretely explained and is expanded upon with every release you did an amazing job xd On a sidenote what do you think of this type of magic system where sorcerers tap into different dimensions to channel its energy? I
I think you did a good job using bubble universe/pocket dimension analogy. Even the practitioners themselves don’t totally know the limits and capabilities and are constantly surprising themselves and others with what they’re able to achieve. Thanks for continuing to shine a lot of the series-I really enjoyed the video!
Exactly. That was the one time I squinted, when Daniel said the practitioners understand and we're expected to learn it. Erickson himself has said in interviews they DON'T understand fully what they're doing (or they understand basics. But at a certain level, they go, "Hmph. It worked. Nice."). He equated it with shamans, who don't agree between themselves how magic works and what they're doing. But it works anyway. The whole subtext of magic in Malazan is playing with powers we can't possibly understand.
Yes! It's multi-dimensional, tangible, metaphysical, traversable magical plains that ARE the very magic someone uses. THEN you get the Ascension lore lol
Very interesting video, Daniel. Thanks for posting it. A minor point that might help to explain the magic better is that Esslemont and Erikson have compared the magic as similar to music in our world. Every one could possibly learn to play an instrument (Warren) but not everyone has the same natural ability. So if you want to learn magic you need to find a teacher. Humans typically only have access to other humans as teachers so they are unlikely to be taught how to access Elder Warren's. So, if you find a teacher willing to teach you the drums that doesn't mean that you will be able to play piano. As magic is so powerful it is not easy to find someone who is willing to teach you. You could become a rival or a tyrant, so why would they trust you enough to impart their hard won knowledge. Lastly for this analogy, while learning guitar could result in calluses and bloody fingers, a misstep learning magic could be fatal to you and everyone around you, so there is a risk reward aspect that helps limit the numbers of active magic users. The system becomes even more complicated when you add in the spiritual magics and pacts with supernatural entities that can confer magical power.
Some notes I've made while reading the series. We're told that all life is magic. We're also told multiple times that warrens are K'rul's blood. The Errant tells us directly that holds are fed by spilled mortal blood, and is pissed that K'rul upset that system by offering humans this magic by making availble to them his own blood. Worship is also critical in becoming a god, and I think "worship" in a more nuanced personal way can also give access to certain types of magic depending on how a person is or what they may become, hence why some people are born with an affinity to something and why other people learn access later in life. As for the terminology of where elder warrens sit, I think it's just nuance based on language and knowledge. Outside of Lether the knowledge of holds is esoteric, but worship of the holds and some of the gods associated with them still allows access to them. I.E. Mael is still worshipped by some and the hold of water can still be accessed. The beast hold through the worship of Fener as a god of war by cults in the Malazan military, as well as the cult of Fener's Reve, is also still active, and is lost when Fener is taken from his seat. Warrens are refined magic and easy to use, and holds are raw and uncontrollable. Holds are not flexible in their use, and hold magic often gets out of control and causes mass destruction. This is directly related to some of the themes in the book when talking about cultures and how adaptable their social systems and beliefs are. I.E. Kurald Galain is described are more hold than warren, which directly relates to how their culture has remained stagnant for most of the life of their people, and they're still prone to self destruction and metaphorically consuming themselves. The T'lan Imass never bothered trying to learn to use Tellann to develop any sort of healing magic, which is consistent with their single mindedness when it comes to their commitment to war. Access to holds/elder warrens has to be granted by someone of great power, and it's my theory that K'rul's warrens are quite literally allowing people to use his blood/veins to act as a buffer to focus/filter raw magical power and quite literally slow down the transfer of energy from the realm to the magic user, to make it easier to use and shape. This also relates to others allowing access to race specific elder warrens. High house shadow, it being a fragment of Kurald Emurlahn, was not even accessible to humans until Shadowthrone ascended and took power over that fragment, either inadvertently or purposely allowing human access. I think genetics also play a part in how K'rul and others were able to give access to certain magic types, and also relates to the strength of those magics. Humans share a sizeable chunk of genetics with the Imass, and Telas, being the warren of fire, can exhibit some pretty stong powers among humans, so maybe this is due to Imass genes. It would also explain why some people are naturally attuned to some warrens, just based on lucky gentics. It would also explain why the warrens related to light, dark, and shadow aren't very blatantly destructive or powerful; humans don't generally have much in terms of genetics from the Tiste races. But some remnant hybrid populations like the Shake can directly access Kurald Galain, albeit at the great cost of spilling a lot of their own blood (I'm not sure if it was due to the original Shake being Edur/Andii, or being so diluted with human blood, but if they were true Edur it's probably due to being halfbloods that were subsequently heavuly diluted), which also reinforces the genetic factors when it comes to warren magic access.
Worship wasn’t necessarily necessary to becoming a god, just accumulating enough power was generally enough. Also, accumulating that much power generally gave you followers through no fault of your own. Ganoes Paran would be a good example, he mistakenly blessed himself and as master of the deck he turned himself into a religion, as mentioned in the following book The God is Unwilling. Shadowthrone usurped shadow and took the throne. Karsa Orlong just refused everything and generated his own. There are many ways to godhood, but they all generally end with followers somehow.
@@widdershins5383 Followers = worship. Accumulating power will make you an ascendant, but you're not a God until you have people to follow and rely on you. All of those examples you listed can be seen as forms of worship, all there needs to be is a cult following of folk hero idol worship, people idolizing you, etc.. Which is very much the case of Ganoes, Shadowthrone/the first emperor, and Karsa. Anomander is a good example of an Ascendant who is extremely powerful but still isn't considered a god. His people follow him, but the Andii are so disillusioned and depressed, they do it because they know he is their best chance, despite probably hating him for some of the things he has done. Same for Silchas, extremely powerful, but not a god because he is not worshipped or followed. The difference between an ascendant and a god matters because once someone crosses into god territory they begin to be influenced by their followers and their prayers. We get some insight on this through Olar Ethil in the Kharkanas books and her interaction with Draconus, how her natural tendency towards cruelty has been made worse by her new worship of the Dog Runners, which is influencing her in ways she can't control.
@@ExplosiveFetus Ganoes blessed himself, they mention he has to be careful about blessing things in Memories of Ice because he blessed the Bargest gods and later on some random character blesses him for a good deed and then he blesses himself in disbelief and that gives him his religion. Because the Master of the Deck does kind of deserve his own religion, kind of like the worship of the master of tiles, the Errant. Shadowthrone and dancer BECAME gods by stealing shadows throne and that turned them into a religion. There was no shadow before they took the throne. This is also mentioned early in the books. Or there was but it was locked up and inaccessible. So both of those examples gained all the power and status BEFORE becoming official gods and developing worshippers. Anomander was considered a god by a cult of andii in Blue Rose, but they were wiped out. Karsa turned himself into a god through sheer refusal to accept things essentially. He did what he wanted and that was apparently enough to create his own warren from the people he killed 🤷🏼♂️. It was partly why he was so resistant to magics, he just refuted it lol
@@widdershins5383 Everything you listed is an example of how different people gained a following/worship, which is what makes them gods. As for Shadowthrone, there is some conjecture when it comes to whether or not he even has the literal throne of shadow. Shadow's whole thing is illusion and misinformation, so if he makes everyone think he has the throne, it gives him just as much of an advantage as if he did. As for worship/a following, he already had that from his time as Emperor. One of the big plot points is that the old guard is still loyal and is idolized by them. Remember, we don't necessarily mean literal hands together and on your knees praying when we talk about worship in Malazan. Even being so much as a cult hero that people talk about is enough to give power to an ascendant and push them into godhood.
@@ExplosiveFetus by your rational anomander was in fact a god because he had a cult following in Blue Rose. It’s where Clip came from, he was the Black Winged Lord.
"Complex" feels like the wrong word. "Obscure" might be better. The series is good, but it's primarily about military campaigns (and their fallout) in a fantasy world. Mages have important roles in this, however exploring the magic system generally only goes as far as giving enough tidbits to make basic sense (shadow mages do shadow things).
@@Msoulwing still i think that’s a very interesting approach to magic. I’ve read a lot of hard magic systems but I’ve always wanted to read more soft magic systems done right ! This could be it I think. I’m going through my wheel of time withdrawal i need a new big series !!
@@djemshyacinthe172 Well, this sure should scratch that itch. It is *dense* though. Quoting from the preface of Gardens of the Moon: "These are not lazy books. You can't float through, you just can't. Even more problematic, the first novel begins halfway through a seeming marathon - you either hit the ground running and stay on your feet or you're toast." If you're up for that, go for it.
Be mentally prepared to remember obscure references from books ago. Parts of this epic are a slog, but they build and intertwine in ways that put you in awe once they fall into place in your mind. This is a world with histories spanning 100s of thousands of years. To say you’re only involved in a section of the overall story is an understatement, but this concept makes you feel like you’re living alongside these characters in the moment.
Malazan has the most amazing worldbuilding and ancient history, but is also a hard read. I devoured the first book, Gardens of the Moon, but had a hard time with Deadhouse Gates, but then it all went smooth. The second book, even the first one, are the great filters, if you can't adapt to Erikson's style within this too, it's not for you, because it will not be easier any time soon. He is not carrying, he puts you in the middle of the action, explaining little, as if you were a witness within the story, and most of the time you will be clueless, because things moves not waiting for you to understand what happened, and until you are a veteran within the story, you will start linking things, and everything will start making sense. Is an awesome experinece, but is not recommended if you are an impatient reader.
@@radamanthium Thank you for this! I really want to give Malazan a fair chance which is why I'll read the first 2-3 books before deciding whether it's for me or not
Well, it's not actually that hard to make it, the wiki has a lot of nice info, and that nice image. But nevertheless, it's nice to see more good videos and content, especially Malazan.
I really like the Malazan magic system because it feels very grounded in sociology/anthropology. Like especially the way Holds relate to Warrens and the way gods ascend or get forgotten and the way power builds up around people, places, and ideas feels very much based in how belief grows and changes in human societies. Erikson really drives home how magical/divine power is created by layers and layers of belief over generations.
Finally the grate goblin has returned to the best of his videos in explaining magic systems. I hope he does a lot more of these in the future, thank you Daniel for the content.
The physical drain is more of a guideline used for narrative convenience when it suits the story. Would like a video going into each Warren and talking about Ascendants. They are the coolest part of the series.
I just started Memories of Ice yesterday. The only reason I started this series was because there were 10 books each almost 30+ hours! Glad I found this "little" gem!
hey Daniel, thank you for this! as a writer, super interesting to see how others are doing this. but on another note, as a disabled viewer, i'm hoping you'll add captions one day? this video was especially complicated for me because the music was too loud compared to your voice, and i had a very hard time understanding some of the things you were saying. i hope you'll consider having captions on your videos, be it from yourself or a third-party. thank you for your work!
There is some added mystery to that also. There seems to be some pointers that even though two people can use the "same" warren, it is not exactly the same. People are like prisms and when they pass/use a warren they sense/see it differently. So there is a warren within and outside of a mage, and that's why 2 mages can use the "same" warren without much hichups.
Broooooo this was the most perfectly timed video release ever!!!!! I’m literally working on a magic system, and studying other series magic systems... THIS ONE was the one confusing me😂😅
It took me 2 years to read all 10 books and I must say it's simply THE BEST fantasy saga ever written. At least compared to "Wheel of Time" and "Song of fire and ice". Some of the most memorable characters and most epic battles described in a book. Huge respect to Steven Erikson!
this video was great for making the incredibly complicated magic system easier to understand. I really appreciate it, also the visuals are great and your pronunciations are hilarious.
I hear the name Malizan and bet the shivers. It always feels like I need to re-read the whole series again before reading any newer book in the setting because the series is so huge with loads of charecters and details that by the time a new title is released, I have forgotten too much for the contents to make sense.
I'm 60% through Memories of ICE right now. Best tip I got to getting started was to just accept that you don't know everything and let the story happen
I'm just a few chapters into Gardens. I like the story and the prose, but man is it hard to follow. I liked hearing that it's kind of supposed to be that way. I've already listened to several sections more than once. I'm now looking around for content like this to get some insight without spoilers. Good video. Thanks.
I'm so thankful for these explanatory videos on Malazan! I'm just a few hours into the Gardens of the Moon and already you managed to reduce my frustration with the book by half!
Interesting stuff. I haven't tackled the Malazan books yet. I started the 1st book years ago and was instantly confused and gave up. Tempted to dive back in again.
The first book is a bit difficult to get in compared to the rest as Steven Erikson becomes a better writer with each book. And yeah, it does just throws you in with no explanations :D
I'd say it's worth it if you stick with it, but to paraphrase Sanderson (I believe), it's got less of a learning curve and more of a learning cliff. There's a lot of characters and locations to keep track of, and they don't exactly decrease as the books go on.
I also gave up halfway through the first book. Picked it up later, and the 2nd half (or maybe the last third) of the book is good. There's also annoying moments in other books, but it's all more than worth it. Probably my favorite fantasy series, and that's saying a lot if you consider I read many series (Dresden, Cosmere, Wheel of Time, LotR, ...). Just remember to not stress so much if you're confused or don't remember things, and continue reading.
Pretty good summary. One thing to remember is that no-one in Malazan knows exactly how the magic works, and what we get is always from the perspective of someone in the world. So of course we are not going to get full, consistent explanations. Magic is available to anyone in Malazan provided they are willing to apply themselves to it, and they can find a teacher. In that sense, it’s like any other trade or field of knowledge. And some people are much better at it than others. Also, there can be good reasons why someone does not want to get involved in it, just like with anything else. The Holds are an older system, which sort of combines what later becomes the Warrens and Houses. There are Warrens that don’t have Houses associated with them. Also, divination with the Holds is done with tiles, and not with the Deck of Dragons as it is with the Warren/Hold system. I like to think of this as Erikson and Esslemont’s joke about switching from the D&D system of gaming to GURPs, which allowed more flexibility and rounded the corners of the wheels.
Great overview Daniel ive read every book of malazan so far except assail (reading now) and kellanveds reach i think its great how u managed to give the overview with minimal spoilers please continue enlightening us rabble to the world's beyond our own
@@allengainzmma I absolutely loved the first book in mistborn, but i haven't been able to read the rest of the series because they are not currently available through my library :(
@@booksandtropes I bought the first book to mistborn 2 days ago and I’m 150 pages in and I’m loving it so far! It’s really easy to read for a first time fantasy reader. Like I’ve read small fantasy books before but never a series that you actually have to pay attention to understand lol
@@allengainzmma I highly recommend the dresden files. I recognize that it has its issues but I love it so much. It starts off as urban fantasy and really easy to read before the world starts expanding :) Either way, I hope you like Mistborn and any other series you pick up!
@@booksandtropes Yessss I really wanted to read Dresden. I was gonna start with either Dresden, first law, or mistborn. I bought the first book to all three and mistborn is the one that stuck but I will 100% read Dresden and I’m really excited for it!
Something to keep in mind is that not all magic originates from the Warrens or the Holds. There are other paths to power, usually through making deals with local spirits of the land and drawing upon their strength. You see this with the Wickans and also with Samar Dev. Both make distinctions between what they do and magic stemming from Warrens and Holds, calling it "ancient magic."
As I recently ventured into this series. I would like to thank you for providing a foundation without a considerable amount of spoilers. I will also forever think of K'rul as a Giant Green Lizard. Thank you for the excellent tip :)
Minor spoiler: You mention at the end that Chaos is the warren of Dragons, but I think it's actually Starvald Demelain. Otherwise, love the video! Malazan is my favorite series, and it's great to see it get some well-deserved attention
I’m interested in starting Malazan eventually but I can’t right now because I’m currently going through Wheel of Time for the very first time and I can’t read two massive series at once.
I love the magic system in the Malazan series It's strikes the perfect balance between a hard magic system with rules but blended with ambiguity and mystery as to how powerful the magic user can become
I've read the series 2 or 3 times and it is so great to see more people talking about it. You also do a good job explaining what took forever for me to grasp. Mainly I needed to re-read the first book to get a grasp of it.
I think the biggest thing that helped me understand Warrens is the idea they can also be locations trapped in time. I was looking at it like Timetravel when really some areas are a frozen segment of history.
Yeeeeah shout out to my boy Quick Ben! Loved the video, you did a fine job here. The pocket dimension analogy works pretty well without getting spoilery. Also, looking forward to checking your book out when I have some spare cash.
Sometimes my friends assume I know everything about every book because I read/write a lot. My mate was like: *what's the magic system in that malazan series like?* Me: well, not having read the series.... I'll just link him this video now.
I’m just getting into fantasy. I had a goal to read 20 books this year and I’ve read 4 so far just finishing “to sleep in a sea of stars” and now I’m starting my first fantasy series “mistborn”. I’ll be ready for malazan after I read a couple smaller fantasy series.
The first Mistborn trilogy is amazing! There's moments that made me giddy, and other moments of tears, and sometimes, both. The other book series in the same universe are also sick. Just be prepared when you read Malazan, it's a bit more dense than your usual books, but completely worth it (I gave up once in the middle of book 1, and wanted to pull my hair out in a couple of moments in other books, but to this day, it's still probably my favorite fantasy series, so many powerful moments in there). Just go with the flow, no need to stress about every detail you don't understand or that you can't remember.
Good job this is acurate and really good explained,people will find it helpful and usefull coz i seen that even majority of fans don't understand warrens 👍
What great visuals you've found to explain complex fantasy physics! This has made me want to read Malazan more then any other video so far - though Brittany made a great one recently - but I still feel I must work my way up to it, only got back into big fantasy reads (and reading in general) a year ago. First the Wheel of Time.
This was really good for me. I started reading Malazan because i consistently see it mentioned in top 10 lists where I've already read most of the list. I got to book 4? I think, its very fuzzy, but I think that was the point? Anyway, I really appreciate the immensity of what the authors have created, and all the interviews ive seen with erikson leave me with the impression that he is a smoart dude. I will go back to this series for sure (after I finish my "pre-show" WoT reread and catch up on my sanderson, and maybe read broken earth haha, but eventually...) and I appreciate having this breakdown of the magic system - because not understanding the magic was one of my main holdups with the series (and the fact that everyone is a demi-god with absurd power levels). sorry for the long brick of text
I just wanted to post this on your most recent video sorry .I just wanted to leave a comment and say thank you for writing your book, I just finished the audiobook and will be completely honest I was shocked by how good it was. I should have known with all of the time and effort that you have put into studying writing styles and other authors that it would be good but it honestly blew me away. I can 100% say that it is the best first book that I have ever read(listened) from a new author and thank you so much for creating this world that I could immerse myself into for a couple hours. The only complaint that I have of the books is that it wasnt long enough so chop chop on the next one :). I am so glad to have purchased the audiobook and the physical book thank you once again for everything.
I've read the entire book of the fallen and Malazan empire series and I couldn't come close to explaining the magic system. Every time I felt like I was starting to understand it a new wrench would be thrown in works.
Minor: I missed the Toblakai Warren in the flowchart. Beyond the topics you undertook to describe: Alike the step from holds to warrens there are hints of further development called paths in Esslemonts books, working along the intersection between different warrens, seemingly connected to D'riss (Blood and Bones)
after ive read gardens of the moon, i saw the system as "magic highways" that are specific to magic individuals. some users seem to only use one type of warren, but some mages like Quick Ben can use all of them(?). some people have extremely rare warrens to their disposal like Tattersail and Hairlock.
*MINOR SPOILERS MAYBE* One thing I would add to "The Magic System Explained" is the concept of ascension. I think the books make it clear that there are multiple pathways to godhood and power and the magic of the warrens is just one way. But, the act of ascension can bring power to an existing warren or can even carve away its own place separate from the warren or elder warren it originally came from. It seems just as possible that 'beings' have the power to pull additional power from chaos itself, to theoretically create infinite warrens. However, I expect this isn't being done because its dramatically easier to 'take your neighbor's hill' than to 'build a brand new mountain out of the sea'. Hence the struggle for power over the existing warrens. To find a path to ascension is to carve a new space for yourself in the pantheon or to take somebody else's. This is heightened by the notion that warrens can also be sundered, blockaded, or destroyed. One last thing I would add is that warrens and their worship and correlation to those magical practice is the influence on geography and culture. It seems very abundant throughout the 10 books that the local cultural practices and customs are linked to the practice and potency of specific magics and their prominence or absence in specific geographic places. A great example is the dichotomy of 'developed cultures' versus 'hunter gatherer' societies that are depicted. There is an obvious correlation between the "progress" of society and the need/development/creation of beliefs and therefore warrens that reflect these more diverse values in more complex socio-cultural places. These more "privative" societies often worship more based human needs and vales (and fears) like fire, water, earth, and beasts. Geographically, people also tend to value the lands they are home to and see more minor ascensions or partial ascensions related to the value of a place itself. Raraku, for example.
You should totally check out Ian Esslemont's Malazan books! Starting with Night of Knives, they get into interesting stuff with Thyr and explains his absence. And actually getting into the characters head and understanding him more than what the main 10 give you.
Did he.. did he say there might be a video on each one? Or even just the possibility of more in general? So you're telling me there is a chance that we won't just get a great general overview about this magic system but also a more in depth one?!? You Sir Gobbo are a blessing for us all.
Excellent job! This really helped me put it together. Also, next time you talk Malazan Magic I'd add: 1. How the world resists influences from warrens and the dynamics this can create between our reality and other warrens etc. 2. The deck of dragons which seem to be attuned to the warrens (and other things), and 3. Spirits which I think are personifications of forces of our natural world (I think).
One thing to add about the younger and elder warrens. It is hinted at that at least some of the younger warrens are somehow connected to the elder ones, making the younger warrens kind of the PG-13 version of the elder warrens. If a mage is willing to face the considerable risks and expend the necessary research and willpower, they CAN access an elder warren that is close to their younger warren. In most cases, it just isn't really worth it.
Nice one. You could also talk about what Ascendants are and how they become gods and warren thrones and...do Kelenved and Dancer want to sit on every one of them? Hmmm...
In the Novels of the Malazan Empire there actually is a human mage able to draw from an elder warren, but I'm not sure if it's been explained how yet in the Path to Ascendency novels.
There are magic systems other than holds and warrens (wax magic, necromancy, soul shifting and spice bois) however this was a very clear representation of these systems as far as we know from the books.
This is the least sure I’ve been about a magic system when making a video like this. You don’t get repeated straight forward explanations within Malazan like you do WoT, so if I made any mistakes please leave them here!
Special thank you to Andy Smith for helping make this: th-cam.com/channels/w9jFR-Nd_PxHkwS9MQ1pIg.html
Hi Daniel ! I'm sorry for getting a bit out of topic, but I watched your last video and Mr. Winter spoke about Cradle series, have you ever read the books ? Thanks!
I think it's best to think about warrens and holds as places. There is inherent power in everything, and when a magic user does his thing he opens the way to one of those places and draws power from it, and since warrens and holds are "aspected" the power they draw is related to that aspect. If you draw from the warren of shadow you will be able to do things related to shadows, because that is the "flavour" of the power in that realm.
Love videos like this, I would love see breakdowns of magic systems of other fantasy series.
Have you already read the Fall of light? The magic system got soo much more confusing there 😀 Eg. difference betwren elder warrens/holds and warrens gets so blurry. Also it raises so many questions about the different worlds...are they one? Where are they? Were they one and got separated? After that book I lost all my understanding 😀
Large amounts of reading between the lines on my part but:
So from the way they work dead on but there is a continued theme in the magic as there was a third level of magic called wanderings that was before even the holds. From a thematic sense in the beginning there was only chaos in the multiverse then there was a randomly a bit of order, these were the realms/wanderings coming in to existence. Everything moving chaos eats at the edge of existence slowly returning it to chaos. The realms moved a lot at this point relative to each other everything in flux. The Azath are beings that connected these loosely existing "seas" of existence together to create the holds "land" (elder earth goddess is the "main" world in that existence is tied to her body) existence is ruled over by their cousins the Azath'nai (the elder gods), but existence is still slowly being eaten by chaos at the edges, their existence while seemingly long in time is inevitably doomed. Everything will return to chaos eventually. Note there is chaos as a bigger concept but in existence it became personified by an elder goddess (tiam) and her children the dragons. K'rul has a plan to try and counter this, he creates the warrens to solidify the land and make it more resistant to chaos which he does by allying with embodiments of chaos, dragons (the eleint), to create paths the connect through all reality tying existence together and binding the personified elder god of chaos to protect existence. He succeeds initially use his blood and body to create the warrens (paths, roads, caves through the land tying the multiverse together). However eventually the curse of the high king Kallor causes him to fade from memory significantly weakening himself the warrens and their stabilizing factor on existence around the time of the first book in the series. Or something like that.
Daniel: "Malazan, magic system explained"
Me: *impossible....*
They said it couldn't be done
@@milospollonia1121 They called Daniel a madman...
I tried my best 😅
@@DanielGreeneReviews As far as you can explain a magic system thats never concretely explained and is expanded upon with every release you did an amazing job xd
On a sidenote what do you think of this type of magic system where sorcerers tap into different dimensions to channel its energy? I
Laughed so hard at this. Perfectly put
What I learned from the books: the Jaghut dont need fridges
And the T'lann Imass don't need a bonfire.
Ahahaahahahah
Rofl
I've never read Malazan but if daddy goblin tells me to watch, imma watch!
Sorry no goblins
I think you did a good job using bubble universe/pocket dimension analogy. Even the practitioners themselves don’t totally know the limits and capabilities and are constantly surprising themselves and others with what they’re able to achieve. Thanks for continuing to shine a lot of the series-I really enjoyed the video!
Exactly. That was the one time I squinted, when Daniel said the practitioners understand and we're expected to learn it. Erickson himself has said in interviews they DON'T understand fully what they're doing (or they understand basics. But at a certain level, they go, "Hmph. It worked. Nice."). He equated it with shamans, who don't agree between themselves how magic works and what they're doing. But it works anyway. The whole subtext of magic in Malazan is playing with powers we can't possibly understand.
I absolutely love this magic system. It’s both original and yet the same time it feels very classical.
Yes! It's multi-dimensional, tangible, metaphysical, traversable magical plains that ARE the very magic someone uses. THEN you get the Ascension lore lol
Me, having never picked up one of the books in my life:
Hell ye tell me everything
Almost exactly the same for me
Same here
Don't spoil it!!!! Go read them.... NOW! Lol
Very interesting video, Daniel. Thanks for posting it.
A minor point that might help to explain the magic better is that Esslemont and Erikson have compared the magic as similar to music in our world.
Every one could possibly learn to play an instrument (Warren) but not everyone has the same natural ability.
So if you want to learn magic you need to find a teacher. Humans typically only have access to other humans as teachers so they are unlikely to be taught how to access Elder Warren's.
So, if you find a teacher willing to teach you the drums that doesn't mean that you will be able to play piano.
As magic is so powerful it is not easy to find someone who is willing to teach you. You could become a rival or a tyrant, so why would they trust you enough to impart their hard won knowledge.
Lastly for this analogy, while learning guitar could result in calluses and bloody fingers, a misstep learning magic could be fatal to you and everyone around you, so there is a risk reward aspect that helps limit the numbers of active magic users.
The system becomes even more complicated when you add in the spiritual magics and pacts with supernatural entities that can confer magical power.
Some notes I've made while reading the series. We're told that all life is magic. We're also told multiple times that warrens are K'rul's blood. The Errant tells us directly that holds are fed by spilled mortal blood, and is pissed that K'rul upset that system by offering humans this magic by making availble to them his own blood. Worship is also critical in becoming a god, and I think "worship" in a more nuanced personal way can also give access to certain types of magic depending on how a person is or what they may become, hence why some people are born with an affinity to something and why other people learn access later in life.
As for the terminology of where elder warrens sit, I think it's just nuance based on language and knowledge. Outside of Lether the knowledge of holds is esoteric, but worship of the holds and some of the gods associated with them still allows access to them. I.E. Mael is still worshipped by some and the hold of water can still be accessed. The beast hold through the worship of Fener as a god of war by cults in the Malazan military, as well as the cult of Fener's Reve, is also still active, and is lost when Fener is taken from his seat.
Warrens are refined magic and easy to use, and holds are raw and uncontrollable. Holds are not flexible in their use, and hold magic often gets out of control and causes mass destruction. This is directly related to some of the themes in the book when talking about cultures and how adaptable their social systems and beliefs are. I.E. Kurald Galain is described are more hold than warren, which directly relates to how their culture has remained stagnant for most of the life of their people, and they're still prone to self destruction and metaphorically consuming themselves. The T'lan Imass never bothered trying to learn to use Tellann to develop any sort of healing magic, which is consistent with their single mindedness when it comes to their commitment to war.
Access to holds/elder warrens has to be granted by someone of great power, and it's my theory that K'rul's warrens are quite literally allowing people to use his blood/veins to act as a buffer to focus/filter raw magical power and quite literally slow down the transfer of energy from the realm to the magic user, to make it easier to use and shape. This also relates to others allowing access to race specific elder warrens. High house shadow, it being a fragment of Kurald Emurlahn, was not even accessible to humans until Shadowthrone ascended and took power over that fragment, either inadvertently or purposely allowing human access.
I think genetics also play a part in how K'rul and others were able to give access to certain magic types, and also relates to the strength of those magics. Humans share a sizeable chunk of genetics with the Imass, and Telas, being the warren of fire, can exhibit some pretty stong powers among humans, so maybe this is due to Imass genes. It would also explain why some people are naturally attuned to some warrens, just based on lucky gentics. It would also explain why the warrens related to light, dark, and shadow aren't very blatantly destructive or powerful; humans don't generally have much in terms of genetics from the Tiste races. But some remnant hybrid populations like the Shake can directly access Kurald Galain, albeit at the great cost of spilling a lot of their own blood (I'm not sure if it was due to the original Shake being Edur/Andii, or being so diluted with human blood, but if they were true Edur it's probably due to being halfbloods that were subsequently heavuly diluted), which also reinforces the genetic factors when it comes to warren magic access.
Worship wasn’t necessarily necessary to becoming a god, just accumulating enough power was generally enough. Also, accumulating that much power generally gave you followers through no fault of your own. Ganoes Paran would be a good example, he mistakenly blessed himself and as master of the deck he turned himself into a religion, as mentioned in the following book The God is Unwilling. Shadowthrone usurped shadow and took the throne. Karsa Orlong just refused everything and generated his own. There are many ways to godhood, but they all generally end with followers somehow.
@@widdershins5383 Followers = worship. Accumulating power will make you an ascendant, but you're not a God until you have people to follow and rely on you. All of those examples you listed can be seen as forms of worship, all there needs to be is a cult following of folk hero idol worship, people idolizing you, etc.. Which is very much the case of Ganoes, Shadowthrone/the first emperor, and Karsa. Anomander is a good example of an Ascendant who is extremely powerful but still isn't considered a god. His people follow him, but the Andii are so disillusioned and depressed, they do it because they know he is their best chance, despite probably hating him for some of the things he has done. Same for Silchas, extremely powerful, but not a god because he is not worshipped or followed. The difference between an ascendant and a god matters because once someone crosses into god territory they begin to be influenced by their followers and their prayers. We get some insight on this through Olar Ethil in the Kharkanas books and her interaction with Draconus, how her natural tendency towards cruelty has been made worse by her new worship of the Dog Runners, which is influencing her in ways she can't control.
@@ExplosiveFetus Ganoes blessed himself, they mention he has to be careful about blessing things in Memories of Ice because he blessed the Bargest gods and later on some random character blesses him for a good deed and then he blesses himself in disbelief and that gives him his religion. Because the Master of the Deck does kind of deserve his own religion, kind of like the worship of the master of tiles, the Errant. Shadowthrone and dancer BECAME gods by stealing shadows throne and that turned them into a religion. There was no shadow before they took the throne. This is also mentioned early in the books. Or there was but it was locked up and inaccessible. So both of those examples gained all the power and status BEFORE becoming official gods and developing worshippers. Anomander was considered a god by a cult of andii in Blue Rose, but they were wiped out. Karsa turned himself into a god through sheer refusal to accept things essentially. He did what he wanted and that was apparently enough to create his own warren from the people he killed 🤷🏼♂️. It was partly why he was so resistant to magics, he just refuted it lol
@@widdershins5383 Everything you listed is an example of how different people gained a following/worship, which is what makes them gods.
As for Shadowthrone, there is some conjecture when it comes to whether or not he even has the literal throne of shadow. Shadow's whole thing is illusion and misinformation, so if he makes everyone think he has the throne, it gives him just as much of an advantage as if he did. As for worship/a following, he already had that from his time as Emperor. One of the big plot points is that the old guard is still loyal and is idolized by them. Remember, we don't necessarily mean literal hands together and on your knees praying when we talk about worship in Malazan. Even being so much as a cult hero that people talk about is enough to give power to an ascendant and push them into godhood.
@@ExplosiveFetus by your rational anomander was in fact a god because he had a cult following in Blue Rose. It’s where Clip came from, he was the Black Winged Lord.
Daniel : Chaois isn't evil.
Me: Phone calling the Ordo Hereticus.
Yes inquisitor we have found the goblin
@@davidwhitney2908 * insert the tom and jerry pointing meme *
@@atharvadeshpande4749 I’m gonna need two bolters and a heavy flamer for this heresy
its a laddah
Chaos isn't a Pit
This literally just convinced me to start Malazan. Complex magic system? Count me in !!
"Complex" feels like the wrong word. "Obscure" might be better.
The series is good, but it's primarily about military campaigns (and their fallout) in a fantasy world. Mages have important roles in this, however exploring the magic system generally only goes as far as giving enough tidbits to make basic sense (shadow mages do shadow things).
@@Msoulwing still i think that’s a very interesting approach to magic. I’ve read a lot of hard magic systems but I’ve always wanted to read more soft magic systems done right ! This could be it I think. I’m going through my wheel of time withdrawal i need a new big series !!
@@djemshyacinthe172 Well, this sure should scratch that itch. It is *dense* though.
Quoting from the preface of Gardens of the Moon:
"These are not lazy books. You can't float through, you just can't. Even more problematic, the first novel begins halfway through a seeming marathon - you either hit the ground running and stay on your feet or you're toast."
If you're up for that, go for it.
Be mentally prepared to remember obscure references from books ago.
Parts of this epic are a slog, but they build and intertwine in ways that put you in awe once they fall into place in your mind.
This is a world with histories spanning 100s of thousands of years. To say you’re only involved in a section of the overall story is an understatement, but this concept makes you feel like you’re living alongside these characters in the moment.
I love the magic system. It feels so mysterious and original. I kind of like that I dont fully understand it
I've been waiting for this video before deciding whether or not to read Malazan and now I think I'm gonna give it a shot. Great video!
One of us! One of us!
Malazan has the most amazing worldbuilding and ancient history, but is also a hard read. I devoured the first book, Gardens of the Moon, but had a hard time with Deadhouse Gates, but then it all went smooth. The second book, even the first one, are the great filters, if you can't adapt to Erikson's style within this too, it's not for you, because it will not be easier any time soon. He is not carrying, he puts you in the middle of the action, explaining little, as if you were a witness within the story, and most of the time you will be clueless, because things moves not waiting for you to understand what happened, and until you are a veteran within the story, you will start linking things, and everything will start making sense. Is an awesome experinece, but is not recommended if you are an impatient reader.
Do it. Do it now.
@@radamanthium Thank you for this! I really want to give Malazan a fair chance which is why I'll read the first 2-3 books before deciding whether it's for me or not
@@heath2372 already ordered Gardens of the Moon and Deadhouse Gates so I should be starting with the series pretty soon
I know this is great breakdown when I can follow along without ever having read the source material.
You want to read as much as you can on the internet. Expands so much of the story. Researching is important
You're a mad man for even attempting to make this video. You did an amazing job!
Well, it's not actually that hard to make it, the wiki has a lot of nice info, and that nice image. But nevertheless, it's nice to see more good videos and content, especially Malazan.
I really like the Malazan magic system because it feels very grounded in sociology/anthropology. Like especially the way Holds relate to Warrens and the way gods ascend or get forgotten and the way power builds up around people, places, and ideas feels very much based in how belief grows and changes in human societies. Erikson really drives home how magical/divine power is created by layers and layers of belief over generations.
Makes sense considering Erickson has a background in archeology, so he probably drew very much on anthropological ideas/studies/research etc
Finally the grate goblin has returned to the best of his videos in explaining magic systems. I hope he does a lot more of these in the future, thank you Daniel for the content.
The physical drain is more of a guideline used for narrative convenience when it suits the story. Would like a video going into each Warren and talking about Ascendants. They are the coolest part of the series.
I just finished Memories of Ice a few weeks ago and I’ve really been enjoying the series. I’ll start House of Chains sometime in the next few weeks
I just started Memories of Ice yesterday. The only reason I started this series was because there were 10 books each almost 30+ hours! Glad I found this "little" gem!
WITNESS.
hey Daniel, thank you for this! as a writer, super interesting to see how others are doing this. but on another note, as a disabled viewer, i'm hoping you'll add captions one day? this video was especially complicated for me because the music was too loud compared to your voice, and i had a very hard time understanding some of the things you were saying. i hope you'll consider having captions on your videos, be it from yourself or a third-party. thank you for your work!
Commenting for algorithm cause you put in so much effort for this amazing, incredible, awesome, great video!
This started sounding like the Warhammer 40k magic with the warp divided into elemental planes.
However it became its own thing.
There is some added mystery to that also. There seems to be some pointers that even though two people can use the "same" warren, it is not exactly the same. People are like prisms and when they pass/use a warren they sense/see it differently. So there is a warren within and outside of a mage, and that's why 2 mages can use the "same" warren without much hichups.
i have not read and may never read Malazan but Im still watching this video because i am a nerd for learning about magic systems
Broooooo this was the most perfectly timed video release ever!!!!! I’m literally working on a magic system, and studying other series magic systems... THIS ONE was the one confusing me😂😅
Let’s get it!
It took me 2 years to read all 10 books and I must say it's simply THE BEST fantasy saga ever written. At least compared to "Wheel of Time" and "Song of fire and ice".
Some of the most memorable characters and most epic battles described in a book.
Huge respect to Steven Erikson!
this video was great for making the incredibly complicated magic system easier to understand. I really appreciate it, also the visuals are great and your pronunciations are hilarious.
I hear the name Malizan and bet the shivers. It always feels like I need to re-read the whole series again before reading any newer book in the setting because the series is so huge with loads of charecters and details that by the time a new title is released, I have forgotten too much for the contents to make sense.
I started..garden of the moon twice but I promise to my self started a 3rd time and stick to it. Nice video.
By the time you get to Bonehunters you'll be a different person 👍😁
I'm 60% through Memories of ICE right now.
Best tip I got to getting started was to just accept that you don't know everything and let the story happen
I am become 5000% smarter. the power of malazan is real
I'm just a few chapters into Gardens. I like the story and the prose, but man is it hard to follow. I liked hearing that it's kind of supposed to be that way. I've already listened to several sections more than once. I'm now looking around for content like this to get some insight without spoilers. Good video. Thanks.
I'm so thankful for these explanatory videos on Malazan! I'm just a few hours into the Gardens of the Moon and already you managed to reduce my frustration with the book by half!
This reminds me a bit of 40k, the immaterium, the warp and psychers
Interesting stuff. I haven't tackled the Malazan books yet. I started the 1st book years ago and was instantly confused and gave up. Tempted to dive back in again.
The first book is a bit difficult to get in compared to the rest as Steven Erikson becomes a better writer with each book. And yeah, it does just throws you in with no explanations :D
I'd say it's worth it if you stick with it, but to paraphrase Sanderson (I believe), it's got less of a learning curve and more of a learning cliff.
There's a lot of characters and locations to keep track of, and they don't exactly decrease as the books go on.
I also gave up halfway through the first book. Picked it up later, and the 2nd half (or maybe the last third) of the book is good. There's also annoying moments in other books, but it's all more than worth it. Probably my favorite fantasy series, and that's saying a lot if you consider I read many series (Dresden, Cosmere, Wheel of Time, LotR, ...). Just remember to not stress so much if you're confused or don't remember things, and continue reading.
Never heard of Malazan till yesterday, when youtube decided it is the only content that will be in my feed.
Legit 7 videos yesterday, +23 videos today
I'm about to finish GotM.. So this helped a lot thanks!
Pretty good summary. One thing to remember is that no-one in Malazan knows exactly how the magic works, and what we get is always from the perspective of someone in the world. So of course we are not going to get full, consistent explanations.
Magic is available to anyone in Malazan provided they are willing to apply themselves to it, and they can find a teacher. In that sense, it’s like any other trade or field of knowledge. And some people are much better at it than others. Also, there can be good reasons why someone does not want to get involved in it, just like with anything else.
The Holds are an older system, which sort of combines what later becomes the Warrens and Houses. There are Warrens that don’t have Houses associated with them. Also, divination with the Holds is done with tiles, and not with the Deck of Dragons as it is with the Warren/Hold system. I like to think of this as Erikson and Esslemont’s joke about switching from the D&D system of gaming to GURPs, which allowed more flexibility and rounded the corners of the wheels.
Such a great book series I'm glad people are still talking about it
Great overview Daniel ive read every book of malazan so far except assail (reading now) and kellanveds reach i think its great how u managed to give the overview with minimal spoilers please continue enlightening us rabble to the world's beyond our own
I just thought to take a break from binging youtube vids, and moved to instagram where I saw you posted, so I had to return here😅😊
Excited to hear more Malazan discussion in the future!!
💙🔥
Oh please, a single video for each warren is what we actually need Daniel
Yes please do a video or videos explaining each Warren please and thank you.
I'm almost caught up with the dresden files and plan to continue the wheel of time next, but hopefully start Malazan after that :)
I’m over here just getting into fantasy lol I’m starting with mistborn.
@@allengainzmma I absolutely loved the first book in mistborn, but i haven't been able to read the rest of the series because they are not currently available through my library :(
@@booksandtropes I bought the first book to mistborn 2 days ago and I’m 150 pages in and I’m loving it so far! It’s really easy to read for a first time fantasy reader. Like I’ve read small fantasy books before but never a series that you actually have to pay attention to understand lol
@@allengainzmma I highly recommend the dresden files. I recognize that it has its issues but I love it so much. It starts off as urban fantasy and really easy to read before the world starts expanding :)
Either way, I hope you like Mistborn and any other series you pick up!
@@booksandtropes Yessss I really wanted to read Dresden. I was gonna start with either Dresden, first law, or mistborn. I bought the first book to all three and mistborn is the one that stuck but I will 100% read Dresden and I’m really excited for it!
Something to keep in mind is that not all magic originates from the Warrens or the Holds. There are other paths to power, usually through making deals with local spirits of the land and drawing upon their strength. You see this with the Wickans and also with Samar Dev. Both make distinctions between what they do and magic stemming from Warrens and Holds, calling it "ancient magic."
As I recently ventured into this series. I would like to thank you for providing a foundation without a considerable amount of spoilers.
I will also forever think of K'rul as a Giant Green Lizard. Thank you for the excellent tip :)
Super excited for upcoming Malazan content. Thanks. 😊
Minor spoiler:
You mention at the end that Chaos is the warren of Dragons, but I think it's actually Starvald Demelain. Otherwise, love the video! Malazan is my favorite series, and it's great to see it get some well-deserved attention
I’m interested in starting Malazan eventually but I can’t right now because I’m currently going through Wheel of Time for the very first time and I can’t read two massive series at once.
I love the magic system in the Malazan series
It's strikes the perfect balance between a hard magic system with rules but blended with ambiguity and mystery as to how powerful the magic user can become
I've read the series 2 or 3 times and it is so great to see more people talking about it. You also do a good job explaining what took forever for me to grasp. Mainly I needed to re-read the first book to get a grasp of it.
My favorite epic fantasy system of all time. thanks for this video
I think the biggest thing that helped me understand Warrens is the idea they can also be locations trapped in time. I was looking at it like Timetravel when really some areas are a frozen segment of history.
Started listening to the first Malazan book a couple of days ago. Definitely even more excited now.
Just picked up your novella from book depository and can't wait for it to arrive!
i have been waiting for this !!!! make it make sense !!
Now I want to read Malazan. THANKS DANIEL!
Yeeeeah shout out to my boy Quick Ben! Loved the video, you did a fine job here. The pocket dimension analogy works pretty well without getting spoilery. Also, looking forward to checking your book out when I have some spare cash.
nice production on this ep
Sometimes my friends assume I know everything about every book because I read/write a lot.
My mate was like: *what's the magic system in that malazan series like?*
Me: well, not having read the series....
I'll just link him this video now.
I’m just getting into fantasy. I had a goal to read 20 books this year and I’ve read 4 so far just finishing “to sleep in a sea of stars” and now I’m starting my first fantasy series “mistborn”. I’ll be ready for malazan after I read a couple smaller fantasy series.
That is an amazing plan! Good luck!
@@sentientwaffle535 Thank you very much! I’m 150 pages into mistborn and I’m loving it so far!
The first Mistborn trilogy is amazing! There's moments that made me giddy, and other moments of tears, and sometimes, both. The other book series in the same universe are also sick. Just be prepared when you read Malazan, it's a bit more dense than your usual books, but completely worth it (I gave up once in the middle of book 1, and wanted to pull my hair out in a couple of moments in other books, but to this day, it's still probably my favorite fantasy series, so many powerful moments in there). Just go with the flow, no need to stress about every detail you don't understand or that you can't remember.
Nice summary, Daniel! Just started with Deadhouse Gates... I really hope to get a better understanding of all the stuff going on, magic included... 🤯
Good job this is acurate and really good explained,people will find it helpful and usefull coz i seen that even majority of fans don't understand warrens 👍
The video backdrops are gorgeous
Thank you. Thumbs up and comment for a job well done; always a fair exchange.
This has re-inspired me to start Malazan this year!
What great visuals you've found to explain complex fantasy physics! This has made me want to read Malazan more then any other video so far - though Brittany made a great one recently - but I still feel I must work my way up to it, only got back into big fantasy reads (and reading in general) a year ago. First the Wheel of Time.
This was really good for me. I started reading Malazan because i consistently see it mentioned in top 10 lists where I've already read most of the list. I got to book 4? I think, its very fuzzy, but I think that was the point? Anyway, I really appreciate the immensity of what the authors have created, and all the interviews ive seen with erikson leave me with the impression that he is a smoart dude. I will go back to this series for sure (after I finish my "pre-show" WoT reread and catch up on my sanderson, and maybe read broken earth haha, but eventually...) and I appreciate having this breakdown of the magic system - because not understanding the magic was one of my main holdups with the series (and the fact that everyone is a demi-god with absurd power levels).
sorry for the long brick of text
Just started Gardens of the Moon and this helps a lot to understand!
I haven't started reading Malazan yet. It seems a daunting task. Thanks for the insight
On the third book and I’m loving it, a lot of remembering stuff and people and places but well worth the read
I’m actually about to finish Gardens of the Moon, and this is helpful. Thanks.
I just wanted to post this on your most recent video sorry .I just wanted to leave a comment and say thank you for writing your book, I just finished the audiobook and will be completely honest I was shocked by how good it was. I should have known with all of the time and effort that you have put into studying writing styles and other authors that it would be good but it honestly blew me away. I can 100% say that it is the best first book that I have ever read(listened) from a new author and thank you so much for creating this world that I could immerse myself into for a couple hours. The only complaint that I have of the books is that it wasnt long enough so chop chop on the next one :). I am so glad to have purchased the audiobook and the physical book thank you once again for everything.
I've read the entire book of the fallen and Malazan empire series and I couldn't come close to explaining the magic system. Every time I felt like I was starting to understand it a new wrench would be thrown in works.
high level magic use is always cool
This channel has made me really get into magic systems. Even going so far as to try and make up my own for fun :D
Great explanation! Malazan is so complex.
Minor: I missed the Toblakai Warren in the flowchart.
Beyond the topics you undertook to describe: Alike the step from holds to warrens there are hints of further development called paths in Esslemonts books, working along the intersection between different warrens, seemingly connected to D'riss (Blood and Bones)
after ive read gardens of the moon, i saw the system as "magic highways" that are specific to magic individuals. some users seem to only use one type of warren, but some mages like Quick Ben can use all of them(?). some people have extremely rare warrens to their disposal like Tattersail and Hairlock.
*MINOR SPOILERS MAYBE*
One thing I would add to "The Magic System Explained" is the concept of ascension. I think the books make it clear that there are multiple pathways to godhood and power and the magic of the warrens is just one way. But, the act of ascension can bring power to an existing warren or can even carve away its own place separate from the warren or elder warren it originally came from. It seems just as possible that 'beings' have the power to pull additional power from chaos itself, to theoretically create infinite warrens. However, I expect this isn't being done because its dramatically easier to 'take your neighbor's hill' than to 'build a brand new mountain out of the sea'. Hence the struggle for power over the existing warrens. To find a path to ascension is to carve a new space for yourself in the pantheon or to take somebody else's. This is heightened by the notion that warrens can also be sundered, blockaded, or destroyed.
One last thing I would add is that warrens and their worship and correlation to those magical practice is the influence on geography and culture. It seems very abundant throughout the 10 books that the local cultural practices and customs are linked to the practice and potency of specific magics and their prominence or absence in specific geographic places. A great example is the dichotomy of 'developed cultures' versus 'hunter gatherer' societies that are depicted. There is an obvious correlation between the "progress" of society and the need/development/creation of beliefs and therefore warrens that reflect these more diverse values in more complex socio-cultural places. These more "privative" societies often worship more based human needs and vales (and fears) like fire, water, earth, and beasts. Geographically, people also tend to value the lands they are home to and see more minor ascensions or partial ascensions related to the value of a place itself. Raraku, for example.
You should totally check out Ian Esslemont's Malazan books! Starting with Night of Knives, they get into interesting stuff with Thyr and explains his absence. And actually getting into the characters head and understanding him more than what the main 10 give you.
Did he.. did he say there might be a video on each one? Or even just the possibility of more in general? So you're telling me there is a chance that we won't just get a great general overview about this magic system but also a more in depth one?!? You Sir Gobbo are a blessing for us all.
Excellent job! This really helped me put it together. Also, next time you talk Malazan Magic I'd add: 1. How the world resists influences from warrens and the dynamics this can create between our reality and other warrens etc. 2. The deck of dragons which seem to be attuned to the warrens (and other things), and 3. Spirits which I think are personifications of forces of our natural world (I think).
Haha! I love how vague and unexplained Malazan magic is, and how it's even visualized differently by the mages, like Beak with his candles...
I loved this. I really needed this. I am almost done with Gardens of the Moon. Hope to read Deadhouse Gates AND Memories of Ice in April.
After Gardens I was a bit conflicted. I liked it but I didn't really love it. By the end of prologue of Deadhouse Gates I was in love.
Man, I should pick this series up again. Gave up after a fee good books in as it felt overwhelming.
Nice
It sounds really interesting
When you said multiple warren users, the second name that popped into my head was Beak. What a character.
0:00 *Clap* *Clap* Magic System Review!
just started this series every video helps liking it Better than Stormlight so far
One thing to add about the younger and elder warrens. It is hinted at that at least some of the younger warrens are somehow connected to the elder ones, making the younger warrens kind of the PG-13 version of the elder warrens. If a mage is willing to face the considerable risks and expend the necessary research and willpower, they CAN access an elder warren that is close to their younger warren. In most cases, it just isn't really worth it.
Hence, Houses vs Holds
Nice one. You could also talk about what Ascendants are and how they become gods and warren thrones and...do Kelenved and Dancer want to sit on every one of them? Hmmm...
Quick Ben. My man
My men and women 😄👍
In the Novels of the Malazan Empire there actually is a human mage able to draw from an elder warren, but I'm not sure if it's been explained how yet in the Path to Ascendency novels.
Finished later by stephen king and will start malazan when I get your book next week and read it first 😀
Do more videos like this, please. I like getting into specifics about books.
Please make this a more frequent series 🙏
I would love to see a breakdown of the warrens, holds etc.
Loved the video :)
There are magic systems other than holds and warrens (wax magic, necromancy, soul shifting and spice bois) however this was a very clear representation of these systems as far as we know from the books.