McDavid vs Gretzky: Who's Putting Up Better Numbers in Today's NHL?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- Who is better? Gretzky or McDavid? If you’re a hockey fan, you know the answer to this is Wayne Gretzky, but what would Gretzky's numbers look like in 22-23? How would that compare with the greatness we're witnessing night in and night out from Connor McDavid?
22-23 Player Hub NOW LIVE! (and all Data Draft Visualizations used in the videos):
patreon.com/da...
/ data_draft
/ data_draft
Wayne Gretzky Footage:
• Video
Connor McDavid Footage:
• Connor McDavid's Top 1...
• EVERY Connor McDavid G...
Rotowire Player Data:
www.rotowire.c...
Moneypuck Data:
moneypuck.com/...
Draft Strategy Series:
Rule 1: • DON'T DRAFT A GOALIE I...
Rule 2: • Fantasy Hockey Strateg...
Rule 3: • Fantasy Hockey Strateg...
Rule 4: • Fantasy Hockey Strateg...
IM LOOKING FOR A JOB! If you like this analysis and content, and want to potentially hire me for a Data Analytics role, visit my LinkedIn and contact me directly
Linkedin:
/ ken-hunt-byram-nj
Oilers fan here. Watched Gretzky as a kid and I watch McDavid now. The problem with era adjustments is it doesn't factor in things like nutrition, equipment, training, rule changes, etc etc. I could go on. It's pretty much impossible to say what Gretzky would do in the modern NHL or McDavid would have done in the 80's, because there are so many other factors involved that don't just involve stats. Guys in the 80's would drink beers during intermission and smoke a dart in the locker room. There is way more to consider here then just "goalies sucked in the 80's".
All I know is that I feel blessed to have watched both of them play within my lifetime. GO OILERS!!!
Yea, way too much to consider. The level of talent is tighter these days now vs back then when there was a larger gap in talent.
Too soon to be ranking Connor McDavid all-time, but when his career is over, he will mentioned in the same breath as Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux and Bobby Orr.
Yes 100 percent
And Mr hockey
And just imagine if Gretzky grew up with the specific training etc that McDavid did... Gretzky and company were still part of the generations that grew up honing their skills on backyard rinks.
He dont have skating tho ,mcdavid was born fast
Just imagine that all other players grew up with the kind of training that McDavid had.... wait a second 🤔
@@The_Punisher_969 lol mcdavids dad said his first day skating he was flying …mcdavids gifted ,ya he trains but his gift is god given
@@whoopdattrick9390 I'm pretty sure that there's a misunderstanding lol I didn't say that he doesn't have inate skill
@@The_Punisher_969 not debating u at all ..just gassin McDavid up some more
I’m a life long Oiler’s fan who was lucky enough to grow up in the ‘80s and watch those teams. IMO while McDavid is the most “advanced” (skating, hands, etc) player the game has ever seen, Gretzky is still the greatest to play the game. He had hockey iq and vision on a level never seen before or since, an under appreciated first step and speed, under appreciated shot, and an incredible ability to hold the puck and elude defenders.
I think when all is said and done McDavid will go down as one of the top 3 players of all time but Gretzky will still be the greatest.
I dont agree and i too grew up watching through all the 80s. The goalies in the 80s are pylons at best next to todays goalies. They were amazing for the 80s, but i cant stop laughing when i look back atthose games. And your opinion is your opinion. I just dont agree
If McDavid played back then, he’d be putting up 300 points per year. Those old goalies were pylons.
Although there was more hooking allowed back then, I still think McDavid would blow by those players. Unparalleled speed and skill combo in McDavid.
McDavid has a super high hockey iq as well. If the defender is too close, he blows around them. If they stay back, he uses them as a screen and snipes it in a corner or five hole. Or slides it across to Draisaitl for a one timer that almost always scores.
@@seansaville5664 McDavid has 1 50 goal season after 8 seasons and people think he is the greatest player ever (highest being 44). Ovechkin played during those same seasons, and despite being age 30+ had THREE 50 goal seasons and two damn near close ones (48, 49). That's to lay the context that even though goal scoring is still currently lower, contemporary players still fair better than McDavid. Its 1 great season, chill. If you are going to claim that he is even in the same league as gretzky, McDavid would have at least had 3 or 4 more 50 goal seasons.
Well said
Exactly.
I don't know which is more impressive: The fact that Gretzky had 8 seasons as good or better than the one that McDavid is having now, or the fact that McDavid is even in the conversation with two of Gretzky's 8 best seasons, OR the fact that Crosby has almost identical production to Gretzky at age 35... ORRRR that Gretzky had the same production as Crosby today, when he was 35! All four of those statements blow my mind haha.
Also Giroux was taken 22nd in the 2006 draft, not in the 2nd round.
McDavid is WAY OVERRATED. 0 conference titles and 0 stanley cups. 100 million $ ? OVERPAID.
Kucherov can not be dismissed.
@@kellyy3961You do realize how ignorant this statement makes you sound😅
@kellyy3961 how many titles did Ovie have at that age?
@@georgejohnson3654 50+?
Having said that, I was one of the lucky ones to have watched both Gretzky and McDavid now play the same team I love and what a special thing for fans to see twice in their lifetimes. Compared to all the fans across NHL teams, the Oilers fans get the twice in their lifetime talent. My dad asks me every time he sees me, Gretzky or McDavid and I’m team Connor all day long. They shouldn’t be compared because they didn’t have equal goalie talent back then.
Right?! Almost makes the nearly 30 years of hopeless teams in between them worth it!
The two biggest coddled pansies in nhl history
They also did have the same skates, sticks, pads, coaching, training knowledge, etc. The impact that modern skates and sticks alone have had is at least as great as the difference in goalie gear. As someone who transitioned into national level speed skating after I was injured out of playing hockey, I can say without a doubt that skate technology makes a bigger difference than most people can understand. For example, a 500m race is the shortest distance in speed skating. Wearing stock skates (mass produced) vs custom made skates will add over a second to a skaters finishing time, which is a huge amount in such a short race. If two skaters were racing and there was a second difference between them there would be about a 70-100m gap between them. The difference between the hockey skates from the 80’s and today is so much bigger than the difference in speed skating boots that its barely even a good comparison.
@@Garkimyer That’s pretty crazy to think that it has that much influence. I never quite understood how insane speed skating is until I learned just how the thin those blades are, like comparing a razor blade to a jigsaw blade difference. Not only that but transitioning from hockey blades to speed blades was probably the most difficult thing to do since you don’t pump your legs the same way. Pretty admirable thing to do but also thank you for sharing and I didn’t consider the sticks and skates, pads etc. and you’re right! Even watching Gretzky highlights proves my point on goalie talent, and then there’s no flexibility in hockey sticks or custom fit skates back then either!
We can compare the 80s Oilers (Gretzky/Kurri + Co) with the 80s Pens (Mario/Jagr + Co) with the mid-2000s Pens (Sid/Malkin) and mid-2010s Oilers (McD/Drai). Our fans have had a great treat. Caps have Ovi/Kuz (maybe Tampa with Stamkos/Kuch), but just once so far if we just focus on elite players expected to be generational. Looking forward to see what Bedard can do.
I have seen Connor McDavid live at the Honda Center in Anaheim, Ca. twice. The first time he hit the post 30 seconds into the game and then proceeded to get a hat trick. The second time he scored one goal and got a beautiful assist. He was the main reason we got tickets. Unbelievably good. I am so glad I saw him and we are going to get tickets and see him again when he comes to town. It's like, "Yeah, we lost 6 to 2 but how about McDavid splitting our defense and scoring that goal in the 3rd period."
That's an awesome attitude and way to look at it. I remember when Crosby got drafted. EVERYONE in edmonton got excited for Syd to visit the barn. We didn't care if we lost. We were just happy to see such an amazing talent, as a hockey fan, what more can you ask for?
@@roberjohnsmith I saw Crosby at the Honda center also. We were the same way. You're looking at what is called a generational player. One the comes along about every 20 years.
I watched Gretzky play over 1000 games. One thing you haven't considered is that the reason the numbers were skewed in Gretzky's era was that he and his Oilers were really that good. They had to change rules so that other teams could compete with them (They did away with 4 on 4 coincidental minors because it was like a powerplay for the Oilers). The goalies weren't lousy as the numbers make it appear, they were shredded by teams who gave up defensive play so they could skate with the Oilers. Think about putting the 5 best players in the NHL right now in their prime on the Oilers to play with McDavid. He would make them better and they would boost his numbers to the point where the overall numbers in NHL scoring would inflate. That will never happen in a post-salary cap era. Watch game 2 of the 87 Canada Cup-Mario Lemieux scored 3 goals (including the winner in double overtime). There was no doubt in the minds of anyone watching the game that Gretzky was by far the best player on the ice that night.
th-cam.com/video/Cc8AgLagRcY/w-d-xo.html
This year is the closest I've seen McDavid get to Gretzky-like dominance over the rest of the league. Now imagine a guy doing that from the age of 18, year after year, year. That was Gretzky.
Against much worse competition, with way better teammates and less teams to dilute talent
And with much more minutes per game.
And with worse equipment (heavy skates and stick), and harder rules (two line off sides and no obstruction penalties)….
@@michaelgriffiths8068 softer rules = slower game = more minutes per game. I counted one Penguins game from 1989 for fun just to see how minutes Lemieux got in that random game. Can you Guess what?
@@anul6801 - Lemieux got way more power play time than Gretzky for two reasons: 1) The penguins had a ridiculous amount of power play opportunities (like twice the PPOs in 1988 and 1989) and 2) Lemieux usually played the entire power play (doubling his PP minutes vs Gretzky, who had to share power play duties with Messier’s unit).
I don’t know how anyone can watch that and say that it made Gretzky look bad….it shows that he would still be a beast now
Gretzky would absolutely RULE in todays game!
I've seen loads of both, having grown up in Etown. I'll put it this way.. Connor is the 2nd greatest offensive talent I've ever seen. A 26 year old 99 would still put up at least 170 in todays Now NHL.)
I'm completely in touch with this comment. Maybe Mario was number two. McDavid is absolutely unbelievable and it's a close call. Wayne is still the best, nonetheless.
No way. I love Gretzky and he was a legend of his time, but he'd be mid-range at best in today's NHL.
@@allanshpeley4284 We certainly disagree.)
Compared apples to oranges I think. Doing era adjusted stats are guesswork at best. What is used for example to compare equipment, training and diet.
Those factors would be irrelevant. McDavid is being compared with the production of all players in his era and Gretzky is being compared to the production of the players in his era. Those factors you mentioned are what makes the goal scoring productions different, but it levels the playing field for both players. It's not a perfect system, but it's by far the best way to compare players from different eras.
In my opinion Gretzky and Lemieux are neck and neck.
I didn't see Bobby Orr play except in highlights and many would put him in that mix. I think McDavid would be on the next tier as a top 5 player of all time and Crosby in the top 7.
I feel like the argument that the skill has improved overall in the defence and goal tending doesn’t really prove that McDavid is better, because I think if Gretzky had the tools, coaches and skill of other teammates today he probably would playing at the same level he did in the 80s. There are just some athletes that have a higher raw talent and are mentally and physically superior Gretzky is one of those guys he would use everything to his advantage to beat the competition. Just like any other great like Jordan, Brady, Phelps, Woods, Bolt, Schumacher.
Gretzky was my Idol growing up
Went to many many games in the Old Coliseum
Watched Gretz his whole career,no one was better…
That is until McDavid.
Better (faster)skater
Better puck handling.
Both have-had superior vision.
If you put McDavid in Gretzky’s era --McDavid wins…..
If you put Gretzky in McDavids era-
McDavid wins…
Gretzky is the greatest to ever lacem up..
But we will have to wait and see how McDavids career goes!!!!
See my comment. We are kinda in agreement; McDavid might be the objectively better player. But 'greatness' is also measured by how long one stays at the top/near the top. If McDavid can repeat this current season's performance another 4-5 times we might be talking about McDavid as the greatest of all time. But as good as McDavid is now, he still hasn't been great long enough to be the "greatest of all time". We shall see!
Do Gretzky & McDavid get to switch equipment (skates and stick)? Or does Gretzky have to wear his old lumbering Douest skates and heavy Titan stick, while Connor gets to keep his carbon fiber stick and ultra light weight skates?
@@michaelgriffiths8068 😳
If they could be in Gretz’s or McD’s era
Wouldn’t that imply they use the equipment of that era???
@@forfuxakes6814 - I would love to see Connor using Gretzky’s heavy skates and wooden Titan stick (Gretzky had the heaviest stick in hockey, as he liked heavier sticks). And with two line off sides and no obstruction penalties. And yes, in the more physical 80s. Then it would be more interesting.
McDavid plays in todays NHL; Gretzky played in yesterday’s NHL. Two different leagues. Both are tremendous players to say the least. Gretzky will always be ‘Greater One’
but jagr played in both and gretzky was better. gretzky would walk all over todays game.
I'm a HUGE Gretzky fan. Grew up in the late 70's - 80's a huge hockey fanatic and couldn't believe what this player was doing. That being said, McDavid is on another level this season. He's skating, stick handling, shooting is sublime. It's like his skates and stick are a part of his body. He's playing 2 or 3 moves ahead of everyone else on some plays. Like Gretzky.
Now, THAT being said, if you could somehow take McDavid and plunk him in the early 80's, he'd completely annihilate even the Great Ones stats. And to be honest, a lot of players could finish in the top 3 in scoring EASY if they were playing in the 80's. That's just a testament to how good NHL players have become. An NHL player who doesn't train and chain smokes sounds like a story about leprechauns and fairies. It once existed. And some even led the league in scoring lol.
FUN STAT:
In 1983, 85, 86, and 87, had Gretzky not scored one single goal in those 4 seasons, he still would have won 4 Art Ross trophies on his assists alone. And he came within 30 or less assists to doing it almost 5 other times.
The assist, vision, and hockey iq have to go to Gretzky, McDavid has the physical skills advantage IMO
@@datadraft371 Oh no doubt. What McDavid pulls off sometimes is so impressive when you consider how well trained and in top physical condition all players HAVE to be in today's league.
We can't slough off the Ovechkins and Crosbeys either. They've been pretty magical in their primes and still, against the same tough defenders. It's just a little mind blowing to see someone else come along and play even BETTER! And from the very start of his career too. He's just getting better every damn year! Lol. I pray he doesn't end up being that good but never getting a cup. It's scary to think it could happen. It almost did to Ovi.
The question is what happens if you make McDavid wear Gretzky’s lumbering Dauest skates and use his heavy Titan wooden stick, and give him two line off sides and take away obstruction penalties. Would certainly make it more interesting…
@@michaelgriffiths8068 and then do the same for everyone else and lower the players wages and not have strict training schedules for teams and all that... the money that goes into a sport increases and the overall level gets better and more balanced across the whole league and it gets tougher to stand out.
@@trollloloololooo - yes, I was referring to putting Connor in the 80s with the old equipment (skates and wooden sticks etc) and off side rules and obstruction. Make it truly equal to Gretzky’s conditions, and then compare them apples to apples.
I actually saw Gretzky’s last game against the Devils. Wayne was special.
He was well protected by enforcers and the refs. Unlike McDavid.
@@mikem9536 Yeaaaaah, todays players are not nearly as strong and physically
Imposing as the players from the 80s. They’re taller. That’s really about it.
You can only compare by how much ahead of their peers they were
McDavid by 30%, Gretzky often by 50%
@@kurtwpg McDavid now at 20%
Exactly. That 81-82 season Gretzky had nearly 30 more goals than the second place guy. Same with assists, he was about 30 ahead of the second place guy.
Amazing content like always. I think it is by far the best comparaison of those two incredible hockey player. One legend and one soon to be a legend. 👌
I love this stuff. Gretzky and McDavid fan here.
I think thats a fairly sound approach. I also agree, Gretzky was better, while McDavid is having a historic season.
Great video, thanks for the context.
It really is a question with no answer.
Gretzky is the 🐐. His individual achievements will never be repeated... but I think McJesus' freakish attributes and rise during this unparalleled era of competitive, high intensity hockey would see him carving up even the Great One at his best.
As a Gretzky superfan I agree. Todays McDavid would destroy the NHL in the 80's more than Gretz did. But Gretzky had more of a gap between himself and the rest of the league.
Anyone who's played the game back in the day knows that before they took out the 2 line offsides there were no stretch passes, moving the puck out of your zone was much harder,. The bottom line is mcdavid is an incredible player, he's a better skater than Wayne, quicker than Wayne, but Wayne had amazing rink awareness and clever pick control, they played in different eras, it's like comparing any star athletes from different eras, it's not fair to either. Gretzky was similar to Larry bird, not the most gifted natural athlete but they were super intelligent with where the other players were and experts in scoring.
I’d be curious to see the same math with Ovi’s goals vs the other scoring greats. Especially if Ovi beats the record
DONE! OV is in 7 or 8th place as actual “greatest goal scorers” not the player with most goals. Gretzky would have 500 more goals if he wasn’t a playmaker first and the season he had 92 he for sure would easily break 100 goals. This guy is crazy and underestimating the skills of a different era, players who revolutionized hockey.
@@oldsingingstudentdougbillf1665 if you adjusted for era Ovechkin is literally still first lmao.. this is so factual incorrect.
He won't
@@FrostyNipz it's an opinion, so can't be factually incorrect. But his opinion is pretty absurd to have Ovechkin 7th or 8th. He has literally lead the league in goals more seasons than anyone else ever. You can make arguments for him to be first or 2nd, maybe even as low as 4th, but any argument that has him 7th or 8th is going to be pretty weak.
Ovi is a different kind of goal scorer. He wont put up 92 goals in a season, but he will score 50 goals 9+ times.
Gretzky was special for being so far ahead of his time. Truly he was the Great One for being so, so much better than everybody else for his era. He definitely had a genius about him to rise so high above the level of his time despite the inferior training available at the time.
Connor McDavid is also better than his peers, but he's not better by quite as much. And if you think about it, it makes sense: the level of hockey has risen so much higher than it was in Gretzky's day. With modern training, strategy, fitness, coaching, etc, players come closer to realizing their max potential. *Gretzky* would probably have been an objectively better player if he'd had to play in today's modern hockey, even if he wouldn't have pulled in the same #s. Gretzky was a genius and he would have learned to adapt to the much faster pace of modern hockey.
So yeah, I think Connor is our modern Gretzky. I observe that Connor is significantly faster than Gretzky, and he shoots about as good as Gretzky. So if we are going to compare anything, it would be game vision. Connor is very good in this regard---see how many assists he gets---but I still think in this one regard, Gretzky is still untouched. He was just so good at setting up the puck for his teammates, it's almost unexplainable. Though, with a caveat: this could be a result again of poorer goaltending, which allowed Gretzky to make the types of assists that simply don't work as well today because goaltenders are so much better trained to handle back and forth puck movement.
Regardless of whether we assume the objective skill of McDavid may or may not be slightly better than Gretzky's was, greatness isn't just about the output of one or two seasons either, its about duration of superior output. Connor can't be considered the greatest of all time, because he just hasn't been at the top long enough yet. But perhaps give it some more years of output like or better than his current season and we'll revisit those ideas.
In professional chess there is a similar discussion regarding whether Magnus Carlsen or Kasparov is the greatest chess player of all time. Arguably Magnus is a stronger player than Kasparov ever was, with modern training assisted by supercomputers, but Magnus hasn't been at the top as long as Kasparov was at the top in his era. Same thing as Gretzky and McDavid, right? They are both gems and "generational talents" to be sure, but any discussion about McDavid being the greatest ever has to be had only after McDavid has shown he can stay great for a long time, like Gretzky did.
Cheers.
This method of adjustment is pretty good. Whatever the differences are between eras is mostly neutralized when averaged out through the entire league and compared year-to-year. All players for a given season play by the same rules regardless of number of games, number of teams, etc. The grand total numbers over a career are a testament to the consistency and longevity of the individual player. A player's individual year-over-year adjusted stats aligned by age or games played would be great too.
I've been waiting all season for McD to explode to have an 8-point outing (no shortage of opportunities), but what we're getting is a steady diet of 1.5-3 point games. Let's hope they can turn on the jets for the rest of the season and the playoffs. Remember, he was still the leading scorer even after only playing three rounds (16 playoff games).
Still too many factors to make a concrete comparison. There was way more hooking and holding allowed in the old days, and they had way worse sticks. Worse sports science too. But probably tougher competition these days than back then, especially since there’s much more players coming from outside NA as back then.
Also, the league is overall better today than back then, so if you put all of our forwards against the goalies of the past, the average would be way higher, so the correction for Gretzky would make his corrected points per game far lower than they are.
Another factor is teammates, but McDavid has been able to pump numbers up being paired with Draisaitl, and vice versa. Not many strong d-men to set him up, though, as Gretzky had.
Don't worry the best is surely yet to come. No matter what happens this year mcdavid is just beginning to peak - along with the team. Look at Nuge, career year and about to turn 30. Many 8 points in the future I'd bet
I think Mcdavid continues his upward trajectory for at least another year or 2. No reason for him to slow down... physically mature plus todays sport science, and lately he and Drai appear to have reached yet another level. They'll keep dragging the team up as they already have
@@JT-gi8rx it will never be concrete, but it is a reasonable method for a comparative discussion. Align the averages. Everyone on same scale.
@@samsonau8205 well it’s assuming the rest of the league in the 70’s and 80’s was the same skill (except goalies) than the rest of the league is now. I’d argue the league as a whole is comprised of way better players now, in part to having far more players from outside NA available.
@@JT-gi8rx By adjusting for the points/game averages league wide, these differences are essentially neutralized or ignored. It doesn't matter how many games/season, equipment sizes, high-tech sticks, training techniques, coaching styles, etc there are. Each season is equal for all who played it at the time. We're only looking at on-ice performance.
The numbers being used are real and simple. No second-guessing by anyone.
So, what you see are the closest we can get for a direct comparison. Even Gretzky's career was compared to the 2022-2023 season stats. The results are still meaningful for analysis and discussion.
Watched Gretzky and Mario growing up and to this day haven't seen anyone i'd say is better than either of them.
Such a great investigation! Thank you!
Let’s see McDavid win a scoring title with just his assists like Gretzky did 4 times….and SIMULTANEOUSLY lead the NHL in goals like Gretzky did 3 of those 4 times. Never been done before or since.
This is an EXCELLENT video trying to use an objective approach to discover and normalize players across era's like the MLB did with the "steroid" period and even with the ballparks. Stats, don't lie, especially with normalization. Points per game is an excellent stat; yet, it is just one stat to get a glimpse. You're breaking down pts/game and mentioning of assists was another glimpse. The point here is if you add in more stats like +/- and S% as examples, you get more of a glimpse of how the player is contributing overall to the wins especially with hockey in the dynamic transitions between the defensive and offensive play, especially with the Center positional play in the transitions and helping out on defense as well. Yes, McDavid is an INCREDIBLE offensive player like Crosby, but when you add in +/- or better yet normalize +/- to the team by taking the average delta of the +/- per team based on at least 20% of games played and subtract the average +/- from the players +/-, McDavid is no where close to Gretzky as an OVERALL impact player. That is why I think there needs to be distinctions between offensive, defensive, and overall/legend players. I think that is the intent of awards as well, like with the Selke. How many times has McDavid even come close to the top x% on that list? Silence. How many times has Bergeron won? Objectivity or at least striving for that, like you are doing is the only way to attempt to arrive at the GOATs or legends. Stats/math is the only objective way especially with the attempt to normalize, not just saying oh the training is better and equipment is better so you can never compare, so I am glad for this video. EXCELLENT video and a great segway into classification of defensive, offensive and overall impact players. If you take just points per game, what I call the average delta +/- considering both player and team they play on and S% and look at the all-time stats, you will see the legends all at the top. Just looking at raw +/- and just for this season, of the top 50 players, there is only ONE player from EDM listed and that is Nurse at 49th, when you look at top 10 players, 5 of them are Bruins which is why +/- also gives a glimpse into depth and especially when you take the +/- AVG Delta that I indicated above. Is the game about the most points scored by a single person [offensive player] or is the game about dynamic team play that leads to integrated team play that wins championships in dominant fashion, Canadiens, 76-77 season look at the legends on that team considering pts/game; +/-, and S%
You should add Bobby Orr’s stats especially years 1970 and 1975 when he won the scoring championship as a DEFENCEMAN. Let’s not forget that Phil Esposito was a 2nd line Center on the Chicago Black Hawks. He never averaged a point a game before joining the Bruins with Orr allowing him to balloon his stats to 152 points.
It’s possible for Orr to have won the scoring for 6 years. That my friends is INSANE!!
Agree big time. As a defencemen, Orr was and is the best defencmen of all time.
It's literally possible for any player to lead the league in scoring for six years. The thing is that they have to actually do it. Isn't it strange that Espo or Bobby were never a point per game player until they played together. Funny that you didn't mention that Orr wasn't a point per game player until Espo came along. INSANE, one might say.
Wayne is by far the best. One can only hope that the Oliers can take advantage of Mc David in their lineup and win another Stanley cup
You're missing Kucherov in 18-19 on that ppg list .. 128pts in 82 games for a 1.56ppg average.
Having seen Gretzky, Lemieux, and McDavid play, McDavid is the closest thing that today's generation has ever seen to #99 or #66. With all due respect to Crosby, he was never at that level. Also, while Ovechkin can keep racking up 50 goal seasons until he's blue in the face, Ovie has never been (nor will he ever be) at the level of Gretzky, Lemieux, McDavid, or even Crosby for that matter.
Players who have hit 100 assists in a season:
Bobby Orr (1 time)
Mario Lemieux (1 time)
Nikita Kucherov (1 time, this year)
Connor McDavid(1 time, this year too)
Wayne Gretzky (11 times)
No I don’t think Mcdavid is better than Wayne
I think the only way to gauge it is how much of a gap was there between Gretzky and the 10 next best players vs Mcdavid and the ten next best players.
That's where Gretzky wins easy believe it or not.
He won the Art Ross on just his assists 4 times. And almost did it 4 or 5 more times. There was only one player who came close to closing the gap in the 80s and that's Lemieux.
These number will be faulty. Why? Because looking at how many points are scored by the league in the past vs now also depends on the rest of the players in the league. Back in the old days there were limited foreign born players, not as many superstars as there are/were from the mid 90’s until now. If we had the same caliber of players league-wide as they were limited to in the 70’s and 80’s, the average points scored would be far less. Gretzky was way ahead of the rest of the league when he played, as McDavid is now, but the league is way better now than it was when Gretzky played.
However, it could also go the other way, that Gretzky is way better than McDavid, since there was way more hooking and holding allowed in the old days. Also, the sticks are far better these days, as is the sports science behind the players. There’s so many factors like these that it makes it hard to give concrete comparisons.
Personally I’d take McDavid, simply because he seems more impressive. So much speed, far outpacing the rest of the league, and such soft hands, but also very high hockey IQ. Just my opinion.
It's going to be interesting to see what Bedard does when he enters the league
He could easily be a 50-60+ goal player that gets 120+ point seasons but could he possibly hit McDavid numbers 🤔
@@dwaynethewokjohnson7773 Never.
Did the era make Gretzky or did Gretzky make the era?
Look the answer is clear, if we are having a debate for greatest career or greatest player its gretz and its a easy choice. If were talking most skilled to ever put on skates its McDavid. Put Gretzky in todays game and hes lucky to even be playing pro hockey at all, put McDavid into the 80's and youre looking at video game numbers. 400, 500 points? More even? The fact is that the game is just different and the players today are flat out better.
Great video! I was curious about this and you answered it perfectly.
Right now top 5, if he continues like this for the rest of his career top 3
Love how almost every fantasy team that picks him up generally wins. Do you notice that trend in your various leagues?
I have him in 3 of 4 leagues this year and the other league I've gamed the system and only lost one week, but I've had him before and lost mainly due to goaltending and drafting mistakes
In our league, the one who draftad McD didn’t make the playoff. Guess it depends on the format.
@@justanothernick3984 It also depends on who you draft after McDavid. If you are an Oilers fan, Zach Hyman can help you win. Zach Kassian will not.
Gretzky was a scoring machine in all levels of hockey .
At least until 1990.
To me, McDavid is a cross between Gretzky and Datsyuk.
Both of those guys were one of ones. McDavid obv had the advantage of watching them.
Idk how it shakes out, who is the best. But I’m happy I’ve got to witness all three of them.
Define “better” if it’s legacy, then Gretzky is the clear and undeniable GOAT. If you’re talking skill wise? Then Mcdavid is clearly better. But you gotta take into eras and their differences.
They have a lot of the same skills, both excellent players. In Gretzky's day the oilers built a team around him, and some of the other players were no slouches either. They need to build a team around McDavid before he wants to be traded. It would be interesting to see the "line statistics" McDavid's line versus Gretzky's line, which line was more productive, and their + - etc. Good players are even better when they are on a great line.
McDavid has always have bad to mediocre goaltending behind him. I have a feeling the Gretzky Oilers had better goalies compared to the rest of the league, so the numbers can’t be compared.
@@JT-gi8rx Yes, the Plus minus is a reflection of the team as a whole, not any individual player or a line. The Stanley cup teams that Gretzky was on were without a doubt strong in all areas, offence, defence, and goaltender. (as is most Stanley Cup winning teams.)
This is McDavids 1st 50 goal season. Gretzky had 9 including a season with 92 and 87. There have been over a dozen 50 goal scorers in the NHL. McDavid is barely in their company, not in Gretzky's.
several people scored slapshots from their own zone or behind the blue line in the 80s. You could have scored back then
Scoring is way up because of the rule changes. It's not about save percentage. More room to skate means it's harder to hit, so the team focus has changed from toughness to playmaking and scoring ability. So stars can have an extra playmakers on their line in place of the enforcer.
If Gretzky had the same training and equipment the current players do then he yet again laps and McDavid becomes his Draisaitl.
I vote #2 of all time for now.
Comparing players from different eras is a fool’s game. Having said that, look in the record books and one name stands out: Wayne fuckin’ Gretzky! And that is why he is the great one.
There's a better way to understand it
In Wayne Gretzky's 8th year he had 1.69 times more points than second-place
By the way that year second-placed was Kurri. Followed by Messier and Lemieux
In summary.
If there was no Mcdavid and Draisaitl had 123 points which he currently has
That would mean Wayne Gretzky would have 207 points
Ladies and gentlemen that's era adjusted
McDavid could undress Gretzky 10x over.
Wayne Gretzky is by far the better player are guys kidding me right now I watched both players play
While I do appreciate all that McJesus can do…..I’ve said the same about Ovi……Gretz played in an era where clutching, holding and hooking were rarely called as well as still having the two line off side call, his entire career. He also had 215pts in one season as well as 92 goals in one season. In my opinion…no contest.
So what if they had clutching, it was wide open pond hockey. Nobody played defense...
And the goalies were horrendous
@Sean Saville compared to today, they really were. They were stand up style goaltenders, with smaller equipment, on smaller frames. It's amazing how many goals were scored in the 70s and 80s where the player will shoot the puck along the ice from the top of the circle and beat the tender clean.
The observation doesn't need to be adjusted . Revelance is the key. Which player stood head and shoulders above their peers. And on a constant basis. Equipment and rules don't matter if the rest of the players are still on the same playing field. Those assist were accomplished with no 2 line passing.
I don't mind the recalculations for fun stuff like this. But who thinks every player in the 80s would scale the same? Also, if Gretzky played without headhunting or even a red line, would he not do even better?
Also, points are stats, not a measurement like kilograms. If you lift a kilo on Tuesday, it is the same mass as the kilo you lift on Wednesday. Goals and assists are not like that. Every goal is different. Circumstances matter.
I got to see both Gretzky and McDavid live. McDavid is better.
The changes in gear alone make this comparison completely and entirely impossible. Not to mention sports science, progression in tactics, nutrition, medical science, more competition driving improvement among players, etc. People who make an argument that modern players are better are technically correct, but they never ever take into account the differences in pretty much everything about the game between the eras. People haven’t become more capable athletes in the last 40 years, they just have more tools to bring out their potential.
Really great video!
I think Mcdavid could reach Gretz' PPG mark, but I doubt he even touches the assists. Gretzky had a team full of good shooters and more open ice so he never had to force himself to be selfish, hence becoming the ultimate playmaker. In today's NHL Mcdavid has less ice and much better opponents, so he's clearly realized that his shot is often the highest percentage play by far, evolving in a way that Gretzky never really had to.
I think we are still just witnessing the beginning. Nothing indicates a slowdown in his evolution, same thing for Drai. If they peak at 30 like Nuge... my god
Mcdavid all day, then and now. Better shooter, passer, skater, stickhandler etc. time moves on, there’s a new GOAT
McDavid isn't even a pimple on Gretzky's rear end. A preseason NHL game in the 1980s had more intensity than a playoff NHL game does in today's era.
This is the most old head comment ever
This is such a dumb take lol. The game is much, much faster nowadays. Players have been raised from younger ages with better fitness and better training. The players are bigger, they are faster, they are stronger, and assisted with computers, they are better able to statistically play in an optimal fashion. There are more people playing hockey than ever before, so there is a huge pool of players to find talent from. So we have a situation where we get to pick NHL players from a wider pool of players, and all of these players are closer to maximizing their peak potential as a hockey player than they ever would have been back in the 80s. Gretzky was special for rising so, so high above the current talent of his generation, without all the advantages modern players have in their growth from a young age. But make NO MISTAKE. The average players of the modern generation are almost universally better than most of the BEST players of the 80s. This is how much the game of hockey has been optimized as a sport. And the best players of our generation, like McDavid, are quite probably as good as or even better than Gretzky was. If we transported McDavid into the 80s, he'd be an unstoppable monster. Nobody would be able to touch him, he'd be so much faster than everybody else that it would look like everybody else is standing still. But if you take Gretzky and transport him into *our* generation... well he'd be very good no doubt, but he would have some catching up to do, as he faces a cadre of players who are much, much closer to him in skill level, and almost universally larger and stronger and possibly faster than him as well. Modern teams would be able to analyze the fck out of Gretzky's playstyle with computer modeling and figure out what all of his weak points are, in order for him to not be such a threat. But McDavid... McDavid isn't just winning by being tricky. He also wins just by being so fast that nobody can stop him, strategy be damned, and he has razor sharp shooting and passing to top it all off. McDavid *is* the modern Gretzky, and this modern version is an upgrade make no mistake. Gretzky is still the greatest of all time, no doubt: Gretzky was at the top of the game of hockey for nearly 8 years. McDavid hasn't been at the top nearly that long. Give it some years and we'll see if McDavid can dominate hockey for as long as Gretzky did. But for you to try and glibly say that McDavid is nothing compared to Gretzky just shows a complete lack of understanding and, yeah, makes you look like a total boomer.
@@csquaredgaming The tired old "you're an old boomer" argument. You don't have a clue what you're talking about and you never watched 5 minutes of hockey from the 80s. Players are NOT better now, the EQUIPMENT is better. Yes, training regimes are better now. Diet is better now. So what? If players in the 80s had the equipment and diet of today you don't think they'd be better too? You have it backwards. The players of TODAY would get demolished if they played in the 80s. "The game is faster" do you know why aside from skates molded to players feet? Because THERE'S NO HITTING ANYMORE! Players like McDavid can recklessly skate through the offensive zone without worrying about getting CREAMED like players had to back in the 80s. Players are NOT faster today, they just skate with reckless abandon because the NHL is SOFT compared to what it used to be (a man's game). Now go ahead and call me a "boomer" again because it's the only LAZY argument you have.
@@csquaredgaming I have seen ZERO evidence that an average NHL player today would be a "star" in the 80s. NONE. On the contrary, most of today's NHL players would get CRUSHED if they were transported back to the 80s. They'd be crying to their mama! McDavid would have 6 concussions by now the way he recklessly skates through the offensive zone! Mike Gartner who played in the 80s TO THIS DAY still has the fastest time for a skater, and he used CINDER BLOCK BAUER SKATES! But please, oh wise one, tell us again how today's players are "so much faster and better" LOL! You never watched a single minute of 80s hockey and are talking out of your backside. That generation was WAY better, even with them using old wooden sticks and heavy bauer skates.
@@csquaredgaming By the way, you can call me a "boomer" all you like but you know something? YOU are the one who missed out. Hockey in the 80s was so much better than today despite all the fancy diets and equipment today's wuss players have. Know why? You had actual RIVALRIES. Teams playing each other in the playoffs 10 years in a row that HATED each other. Edmonton/Calgary. New York/Long Island. New York/Philadelphia. Boston/Hartford. These were GRUDGE MATCHES that you don't see today. Edmonton playing Calgary today? They might as well be playing Carolina. There's ZERO juice to it anymore. You had HITTING in the game, FIGHTING...just pure HATRED between teams that is nowhere to be found in today's watered down NHL. The league is a boring SHELL of what it used to be. You'll never know the pleasure "boomers" like me experienced. Maybe that's why you're so upset. Jealousy I suppose. The average NHL game today has less intensity than a pre-season game did back then, and that's just sad and pathetic. You'll never know how GOOD the NHL used to be, and I feel sorry for you.
Game was more physical back in the day. Also you had the 2 line pass rule
If the scoring in Gretzky’s time was 22% higher in your example at 4:39, then your math is wrong. You should be dividing his stats by 1.22 not multiplying by (1-.22). This would increase 99s numbers slightly.
Gretzky is the all time greatest ! Just think what his point totals would have been had the Edmonton Oilers had the financial ability to keep that team together ? If they did Gretzky would have had over a 1,000 goals , 3,000 points 5 more Art Ross Trophies , Hart Trophies and probably 10 Stanley Cups ! This is a great video breakdown of how great Wayne was . Not only on the ice , but off of it as well. His trade to L.A. helped the sport grow in the Western United States and in warm weather climates across the Country . In my opinion he should be Commissioner of the NHL , NOT Bettman !
How many cups did Gretzky WIN in his first 8 years? How can you put any comparison there? McDavid didn't SCORE 50 till his 8th year. stupid comparison.
Dumb take. You are mixing up 'greatness' (how long a player dominated their sport) with 'best' (who is objectively the better hockey player). In terms of the raw metrics of what makes a hockey player a good hockey player, McDavid ticks almost all the boxes: compared to Gretzky, he's bigger, faster, stronger, has similar or superior puck-handling, similar or superior shooting. The only thing I'm not sure of is whether Gretzky might still be better with his 'game sense' (that hard-to-define ability to magically know where your teammates are at all times to allow for some snazzy assists). How much of Gretzky's insane assists #s is due to the types of passes that were revolutionary for his time and frequently led to goals, but which are easily stopped by modern styles of hockey? Hard to say, right.
Gretzky not only was a player miles ahead of his peers for his time period, but he was also paired up with peers who were also a cut above the rest of the NHL at the time. The Oilers of the 80s were an unstoppable juggernaut. The modern Oilers... they are good, but the level of hockey is so much higher across the board, and we all know there have been some goal-tending and defensive issues to work out that have kept the Oilers from being unstoppable.
Speaking of which, defense? Ha, wasn't a thing back in 80s hockey lmao. Certainly not the modern style of computer-modeled defensive structures we now see that make it much harder for old styles of hockey to penetrate easily into the offensive zone. 80s Gretzky could penetrate the paper-thin defenses of his era with ease, as a superstar among mere mortals of his time. But McDavid nowadays is a superstar among other stars, and he makes them look slow, even though they objectively aren't. Take any modern player and drop him into the 80s era, and they would DOMINATE! That's how good modern players are in comparison to 80s players, across the board.
My point is, just winning trophies or getting a lot of goals doesn't necessarily mean you were the best player of all time. Gretzky is definitely, unquestionably still the greatest player of all time for dominating hockey as long as he did, in addition to popularizing it so much. But "best of all time"? Not anymore. Not anymore.
McDavid's goal vs Nashville lololol omg that was insane.
McDavid will probably go down as #3 in history after Gretzky and Lemieux. How many cups he wins and if he can stay healthy will be a major factor.
What your missing is Gretzky scored 80 more points than the second leading scorer of those seasons.
Need to factor in 3 v 3 OT. In the 80's and 90's, there were no tie breakers in Regular season. 2nd, way more clutching, grabbing & hitting back then. 3rd, sticks were way heavier and barely any curves on them. Plus they were wooden. No way can any player stick handle the same with today's stick as a wooden stick. 4th, NHL was forced to take away the 2 line pass and make it a 1 line pass because they wanted to slow down the 80's Oilers scoring pace. 5th, 1 ref back then. Now 3 refs to watch for more infractions. Players do not need to fear as much when handling puck or behind the play.
No one else is close
Having watched both players, McDavid is far more talented. Look at the highlight reals of both players - it's no contest. With respect to the number, they can be misleading. Take Assists. Gretzky isn't getting the assists that he gets if not surrounded by Jari Kurri, Mark Messier, Paul Coffey, Glenn Anderson (all Hall of famers). While McDavid has Leon Draisaitl, Gretzky had better players surrounding him. Just look below how much better Esposito became when he played with Orr - who you play with makes a huge difference.
Before we go off into fantasy mode...
WE ALL NEED TO REMEMBER THAT WAYNE GRETZKY SCORED 1000 points BEFORE HE TURNED 23 YEARS OLD.
Let that marinate for a minute. 😳
Give their generation our technology and equipment and vice versa it will be closer in numbers. Gretzky is a gem and an unimaginable talent and McDavid is the best in the world today. Just give McDavid the exact same stick that Gretzky has, see how he does. Just put Gretzky up against the goalies we have today. There are too many variables to compare, but I’ll tell you this… it is speed and physical skill vs the greatest hockey mind.
The game is so much faster than back in Gretzky's era . The players overall are much stronger and quicker than in Gretzky's era. No doubt that Wayne was the best during his career. That said I don't think Gretzky would have put up those numbers in today's game. Wayne was better in every aspect of the game offensively except for his speed. McDavid has everything Gretzky had and has the speed on top of that. The key in my eyes is the speed in which McDavid has puts him ahead of Gretzky. Now you have to wait and see if McDavid puts up the numbers that Gretzky did for his career. Then decide who was the better player. I think right now McDavid is the better player. The other factor is line mates. Gretzky's were better than McDavid's, so that would be another reason why I think McDavid is better at this stage in his career, but 1 year doesn not make him the best of all time. So let's just wait and see how McDavid's career goes then decide who was the best player.
I don't judge players by the era, I judge them on how much better they are then the next highest scoring player, & the impact they had on the game. That puts McDavid up in the elite levels of all time greats. He raised the bar for all that follow him, just like the all time greats. One must consider, however, the impact that Gretzky had on the game; he literally brought hockey to the desert. He grew the game in the States & became a household name. I'm hoping McDavid finds a way to follow suit, the game needs it, the game needs him.
That's a common way of doing comparisons. The one presented here is simply a straight up percentage adjustment using league average differences. Then 2nd-place players are adjusted equally anyway. But it only compares past seasons to the year of interest (this season). It also doesn't worry about age or anything. In other words, things like equipment, games played, shortened seasons, etc don't matter either.
I think a missed calculation is the difference between ppg vs field example 1983-84 1.19 ppg differeence vs 2nd place coffey
This year McDavid vs Draisaitl is .38 ppg difference -the sheer dominance of Gretzky was different
It would be interesting to add Mario Lemieux's 88-89 and 92-93 to the formula and see the three players compared.
160 points in 60 games LOL
@@Me-uv6kc He spotted the second best leading scorer 24 games and still won the scoring race by 12 pts. Sounds messed up.
You don't see the huge difference in their game,you are blind.Connor is fun too watch but he wont be winning anything soon.Wayne had twice as many goals at this point and cups 🙃
You can't make a comparison. Gretzky was using a heavy wooden stick. Physics prevented him from doing anything that McDavid can do with his stick. Goalies were terrible in the 80s which helped him score, but the equipment Gretzky was using was laughably bad compared to today's best equipment. Too many confounding factors to compare eras statistically. That said, McDavid's highlight reels are way better than Gretzky's. There's no contest. But, again, this is largely due to Gretzky carrying around a few extra pounds of equipment in all the wrong places.
There is no question in my mind as to the better of the two - it is Connor McDavid. I was 16 when Wayne Gretzky entered the NHL. In fact it never crossed my mind to compare McDavid to Gretzky because I'm old enough to remember seeing Bobby Orr play.
Wayne Gretzky's career coincided with an era of high goal scoring due in part to smaller goalie pads and less talent. I even wonder if Wayne Gretzky could play in today's NHL.
You had me going until your last line lol. Good stuff 😂
@Michael Griffiths Until I saw Alex Ovechkin enter the NHL and turn players and goalies inside out in his rookie season, to think that any player could be better than Bobby Orr was lunacy. Then came Connor McDavid ...
As for wondering if Wayne Gretzky not being able to play in today's NHL, consider: 2 house league hockey players. Both are superstars on the same team. The "better" of the two does not get the call up to the rep team but the lesser player does. Just because you are the better player at one level doesn't mean that you will be at the next level. I suspect Wayne Gretzky is like the star player at one level who wouldn't have the same success at the next level.
@@Polytrout - the funny thing is almost EVERYONE thought Gretzky would fail at every “next level” of hockey back then too. People thought he would fail at age 10 playing against 14 year olds (because he was way smaller than them), but then he scored 378 goals (and 512 points) in 68 games. Then they said he would fail at the World Juniors since he was only 16 playing with and against 19 and 20 year olds. He then went in and scored 17 points in only SIX games lol. Then they said he would fail in the WHA since he was an underage teenager playing in a professional league. He ends up scoring 180 points. Then they said he would definitely fail in his first NHL season (still as a teenager at age 19). He wins the freaking HART trophy as league MVP his first season (and wins 8 in row, making a mockery of the NHL for the next decade).
I mean, what else does a guy have to do to convince anyone he won’t fail? Obliterate (not just break) 61 NHL records? Not enough? How about win 4 Cups in 5 years? Still not enough? How about win 4 scoring titles with his assists alone and SIMULTANEOUSLY lead the NHL in goals during that insane stretch? Still not enough? How about win 20 scoring titles in his first 15 seasons (10 regular season, 6 playoffs, and 4 Canada Cup scoring titles). Still not enough? I could go on; just let me know…
@Michael Griffiths The concern about Wayne Gretzky was his skating. It turned out to not be such a barrier to success. What set him apart from everyone was his vision of the ice. Today, everyone in the NHL can make saucer passes - Gretzky's passes weren't necessarily the most beautiful ones even for his day but they were always put in the right place. Today, half the league can shoot and skate like Bobby Hull, and handle the puck almost as well as Gilbert Perreault.
MAYBE Wayne Gretzky could play in today's league; as you said, he has proven critics wrong at all levels before. 🤔. One thing though, I doubt that we'll ever see another player like Gretzky.
I’m not sure your stats are comparable because Gretzky himself said that the goalies back then were NOT at all comparable to todays goalies because the guys he played against were the heavier guy that couldn’t skate and he said todays goalies are the most athletic on the team so he even says I don’t think I’d be able to score the way McDavid is able to today. So if you’re not adjusting to that concept then the point is really moot.
GREAT video. thanks for putting in the effort and research
I don't think you can do a rule fo 3 like. I mean you cannot do a proportial adjustment for gretzy for today.
I think there is another factor.
The difference from average for the amazing talents at the end of normal bell curve distributions will get different adjustments to the average differences.
What is included in the requirement of being called the greatest? Is it purely points per game? Is it a combination of points per game and amount of cups? Is it the sum of mastering all aspects on both ends of the ice + points per game + cups? I think that it is the latter. Therefor I don’t think that Gretzky and Lemieux are qualified to be contenders of being called the greatest. They won a few cups and they had the highest points per game average including some insane seasons - but they weren’t complete as players. And as impressed as I am with McDavid I don’t see him as a complete player either. The top two players in my eye that both are complete, have high points per game average and have won several cups each are Crosby and Forsberg. I’d say that they are the only two that compete for the title “The Greatest”. Both are the best at protecting the puck, defending, battling in the corners etc and they are together with Gretzky, Lemieux and McDavid the best passers and playmakers. On top of the mentioned skills they also have insane work ethics, always back-check, are high in steals and block shots. Even though Crosby has a slightly higher regular season points per game and regular season goals per game, Forsberg has a higher regular season assists per game, slightly higher playoff points per game and to my amazement a much higher playoff goals per game which leads me to draw the conclusion that Forsberg leveled up during playoffs. If I would have seen a more complete game from McDavid and a few cups to his name, I would definitely rank him as the main contender for the title “The Greatest” - but I don’t see it, he has played seven seasons without winning, isn’t changing up his game to win, isn’t the best battling in the corners, nor the best puck protector. His leverage is his insane speed which gives him a huge advantage. He is also amongst the best dribblers ever together with Datsyuk, Forsberg, Crosby and a few others.
Probably I’d rank Forsberg higher than Crosby for the facts that he was slightly better than Crosby at defending the puck, passing, physicality, keeping his balance and because he has won SC, OG, WC twice and still holds the JWC points record.
So
1. Forsberg
2. Crosby
3. Orr
4. Lemieux
5. Gretzky
6. McDavid
One thing you’re overlooking (or underestimating) is Gretzky’s insane playoff and international career. When the competition was at the highest (playoffs and Canada Cups), he smashed (destroyed) all the records there as well. Plus he has 4 Stanley Cups and 3 Canada Cups (7 titles). Scored 9 points in 3 games against the 1987 Soviets (arguably the best team in history). Had 5 assists in game 2 against the Soviets, including setting up the game winner in both game 2 and game 3. Insane clutch ability, the likes of which we’ve never seen before or since.
Both great players. It's a nice mathematical exercise but all comparisons for different generations is really impossible.
Agreed
All these adjustments looks great but I think it does not give a perfect comparison. I saw Gretzky play at his prime and now I see McDavid, looking how they play is better in my opinion than using numbers. I think we can get better comparison if we simply compare how these two players were superior to the rest of the league and on that specific aspect I think Gretzky was way better than any other player at that time. this does not mean Gretzky was really better than McDavid. In term of pure skill for hands and skating I think McDavid is better, in term of brain capacity and vision for the game I think Gretzky was in an other league at his time. There is another aspect not mentioned in that video, it is the ice time. there is no official ice time recording on the period Gretzky was at his prime, last year McDavid got the most ice time in the league for forward position with 22:50. Today game pace is way faster than 40 years ago, Gretzky probably got more ice time, it was physically possible to do more than today.
Third best all time IMO
I watched Gretzky play. Played shinny with him at the Ancaster double rinks in the early/mid 70’s. He was great. Incredible vision. Very smart,a passing genius. But he was protected, never hit. He wasn’t tough, a completely different game in the 80’s. Opponents were instructed not to hit him. The Gretzky era was wide open,10 goals a game. Goaltenders were much smaller with much smaller equipment. Gretzky was great ,However, I’ve been around hockey for 60 years. There has been speed… Larkin, Bure, Coffey. Toughness…Ovechkin. This Conner McDavid is amazing,a special talent. One other player would/may be his equal and that would be Bobby Orr. Nobody skates like McDavid,that speed skill and finish. Bobby Orr, I’m sure would have. Gretzky didn’t skate like McDavid or Orr.
Hard to disagree there, you can say the 80s were a tougher brand of hockey with the goons and fighting but the oilers had semeko and their guys to protect Gretzky and McDavid doesn't need those guys because of the rule changes.
Bure is the only similar player to McDavid. Give early 90s Bure modern equipment and he tops McDavid in points. He could control the puck at high speed and had all the moves McDavid has.
@@rt-rd5of Hi r t. Bure was awesome. A beautiful skater for sure. That’s the one thing in hockey that I have always loved was the skating part of the game. I would love to watch my son play,a great skater,but he had Domi hands,lol.However,just watching him do drills in practice was fine for me.Bobby Orr was a next level player,a fast puck carrying defenseman. He would have excelled in this modern game.
@@rt-rd5of plus, take away that centerline, bure Woulda had so many more goals
This is a great breakdown. Thanks for that 👏
Gretzky once won the scoring title with just his assists. Gretzky was THAT MUCH BETTER than his peers.
Actually he led the NHL in points FOUR times with just his assists alone (and 3 of those times also led the NHL in goals simultaneously). Insane.
Great video (clear explanations and stats) - I like it ! ... Aftercall, stats are made to help the discussion over a BBQ between friends. Hi. HI.
I don't think enough people understand this. So true
Love this! Great video 😄
It's not comparable. Who knows if McDavid was born in the 60s what type of player he would've been with the knowledge of training and skill of that time. McDavid isn't doing anything different other than maybe doing things slightly physically faster, some of the moves he uses today wouldn't necessarily work in certain eras simply because rules and playing style of their time. There's a reason why bobby Orr had no knees by the time he reached his prime and couldn't skate anymore.
The game is much faster now overall. The goalies are better. Equipment is bigger . Mcdavid in that error 300 points a season
Is McDavid a better skater than Gretzky? Yes. Is he faster? Yes. Does he have faster hands? Yes. But is he better than Gretzky? No.
Really not even a question. Gretzky dominated his era more than McDavid is.
The great one is the the great one for a reason . Some people are just the best . Bruce lee, Mohammed ali , and he is that guy in hockey.
By style, it'd be better to compare McDavid to Lemieux, which is no downgrade
There's definitely some aspects of puck handling with finess and finish that 66 & 97 have in common but the way they went about their business is different. Mario was hampered down by so many injuries and illnesses that he needs his own special place among the goats. Lemieux was a physical anomoly and defied the odds of playing hockey to a standard equal to Gretzky. Connor is having some good luck staying injury free which means a long and prolific career in the making and is carving himself a spot on Mount Rushmore indeed.