Just a quick note to say you were the talk of our model railway club this week concerning the mazak rot. I have a T9 and my motor was found to have this rot, on phoning Hornby and spoke to a guy called Matt who to his credit was absolutely 1st class and said he was totally aware of the situation and offered to fix it if I posted my loco to him or would send me the part free of charge.Congratulations Hornby, I cant thank you enough. 1st class service from a 1st class company.
Sam the tender can be repaired. I just fitted some hornby spoked wheels straight in. It's a bit tricky getting the pinpoint axles into the axle boxes but there are holes ready to accept them. This also means the pick ups can be put back too. The more common fault, especially with the super detail tender drive variant is for loco chassis rot. I managed to buy a chassis on eBay and replace. But be warned... although the "S####" part number is the same, the casting isn't. It took a lot of milling to get the body to sit right. This is same problem for loco drive too. What's more complete rebuild of the 9f is quite tricky. In fact if I had known how much trouble it would have caused me I wouldn't have bothered. Finally I just want to say that mazak pest affects ALL manufacturers, not just Hornby. One of the online forums has put together a while spreadsheet of models and their problems. Typically it affects batches, so as you say your T9 may have a bad motor mount, mine have all been fine. So the list online is specific to loco running number. Hope this all helps.
I had one loco with this problem a mainline GWR mogul the damage was terminal as the motor mount is part of the chassis. All my other locos (some very elderly) are ok. Glad you fixed the 9F.
Great video I have had the same problem with my old Tyco engines and some of my old Bachmann they just fell apart. now I know why thanks a lot Sam your videos are so informative.
Hi Sam, yes, but probably not the Hornby loco you were expecting - it's in the range of (Hornby) Dinky Toys 1935 Silver Jubilee streamlined articulated set No16. Most of the pre-war trains - carriages and locos - the ones with the cut-out windows - suffer from Mazac rot. Very few still have all their couplings and wheels intact. They were still made post war, with garter blue A4 and teak coaches, and later still in BR Green, with "blood and custard" coaches. You don't often see a good silver and grey pre-war set. The Hornby Dublo pre-war clockwork locos (yes, 00 gauge clockwork) are also very difficult to find now in good condition. Thanks for your cheerful and interesting videos, which are always a treat to watch now we are still confined to our homes. Cheers, Peter T.
Model Locomotive Expert: I know everything about trains! Sam: you know I’m something of a model loco expert myself Great video sam! I can’t wait for more! Also did you realise the tender was missing one set of wheels?
haha thanks mate! Yeah I did realise - the tender only has two sets of bearings, the middle axle just fitted into a slot, which crumbled away :( Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam, thanks for explaining 'mazak rot'. I have an Atlas n-gauge K4 where the chassis had swelled up, jamming the wheels (subsequently the motor burnt out!). When I tried to squeeze it back into shape, it crumbled to bits! Now I know why. I can't find a replacement so it will have to be 3-D printed. Keep 'em coming.
Yeah, I'd keep 'em for static display too -- either as props for a scene, or just sitting on the mantle as a neat decoration. Especially with 3D printing these days - you could easily craft some simple non-functional parts to replace anything structural that dissolved. I did stuff like that back in my model railway days, but with a pocket knife and a bit of scrap wood! Alternatively, their non-rotting parts could be used to repair other locomotives, either for yourself, or your friends, or randos on ebay ;)
Morning Sam, I've had Mazak rot problems on the Hornby Rebuilt Merchant Navy. Got R2268 35027 Port Line out for a run and the front bogie wasn't spinning, was seized up completely. So I attempted to unscrew it and it just crumbled away... Fortunately though I have a spare dead Merchant Navy being gradually cannibalised for spares so was able to replace the front bogie and now Port Line runs good as new. Worryingly though I can see some cracks in another of my Merchants.
Morning! Sorry to hear about your Merchant Navy - yes I've heard of the front bogies going bust before on those - completely unacceptable of course :( Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Some of the older MNs/BBs/WCs since about 2006 are a real pain especially when Hornby will currently not accept any loco over 10years old for repair, these are expensive items and shouldn’t happen even when stored carefully. Sam’s informative video on the Mazak/Zinc rot problem was as great and thorough as ever
Madam rot. I learned something new today! Great video and learned a lot from this. I. Amazed how brittle the model had become. I’m a big fan of the 9f so was happy to see this return to service. Hope your well, Clint
My 9F, exactly the same as yours, is suffering big time in the tender. The wheels don't turn at all and it's just dragged along. Think I'll try your method of just gluing the wheels directly to the chassis. Can't find spare parts anywhere.
Sorry to hear that mate - yes that doesn't sound right, definitely worth investigating, it's a very common issue with these! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@idonotlikeboats9328 In historic times, when there where O-Gauge clockwork trains, the Zinkpest was normal. In our age the only other company where I heard of such problems, was a little company from austria, which went bust some years ago.
Well done Sam. I have had to failures one was my 40 year old Hornby class 91 225 and the other 22 year old King George Vth. Both failed on the drive gear that turns the gears. I replaced them with brass that should last a bit longer.
As a collector of old Tin toys i can certanly confirm that it's sometime a huge problem with very old zink based castings. If it's new made pieces t's most likly because they use very sheap sources for zink, the Zink component -must- be properly purified before it goes into the alloy in order to prevent zincpest apear soone ror later.
Hi Sam, yes i have had 3 Hornby 9f tenders do this and i have replaced each chassis with lima class 37 or 47 bogie chassis parts which has sorted them out but the chassis of all the locos are ok. cheers , Alan.
I’ve got one of those and had the same problem with the tender chassis, I sourced a replacement chassis for the tender off of ebay ,and it’s fine now , I had the loco body off the other day to fit a firebox glow effect and everything seems well .
This is really useful. My DC railroad 9F hasn’t worked for some time. It makes a buzzing noise and doesn’t move like yours did. When I’ve had it apart in the past I’ve been able to get the motor to spin very happily but when together it won’t. I wonder if it needs the same parts replacing to get it to properly engage the gear and worm drive.
Sam'sTrains I’ve had it open and found a loose connection to the motor which h I’ve fixed. Running better at the moment but the motor sometimes doesn’t like to start up. If I give the flywheel a spin it goes quite happily. I’ll keep working on it.
Wow...good job Sam on reviveing this model.... I had zinc pest on my expensive Brawa br 06 boiler ( model about 12+years old) it fell apart... A new boiler is soon to be bought but its an expensive part to order.
I have this problem with One of my Hornby 0 gauge Locos. It is a 1932 Royal scot. The wheels are cracked quite badly but the previous owner has used a sort of epoxy resin. It works quite well. Thanks for sharing, this will probably help me out in the future.
Hello Sam. Thanks for adding this! I have the same model with the same problem and I now know the reason why it's not working, so thanks! Do you know the item number on ebay for the replacement parts or the sellers name as I can't seem to find them? Also any idea how to remove the wheels from the tender? All 3 wheels have seized on mine and I can't work out how to remove them?
Good vid, Sam. I had Mazak rot once thus, hopefully won't have a 2nd. Was removing a Hornby Toby motor to see if it would fit a different loco and the mount snapped off...errrm...so I tried to glue it back on, and with handling it the chassis literally snapped in half. Utter tripe!
I had the dreaded mazak rot on a Hornby T9, your previous video on that was very useful when I fixed it last year, so thanks for that, she runs smooth as anything now!
I've been model railroading since 1957. This was a recurring problem back then, probably worse than this case. In America, the metal was called zamac. I haven't heard that word in decades until this transliteration. Thanks for resurrecting memories from my pioneer days..
I had a problem with Mazak rot on one of my 9F's. But it was the back of the chassis that went.it actually snapped of the the main part of the chassis. But as you say it can affect any engine. I also lost a Riverossi Big Boy to this problem. Out of curiosity why did you not replace the middle wheel of the tender.
Ahh sorry to hear that Gerard, it's devastating really isn't it? The middle tender wheel had no bearing with it, so I couldn't just glue it inside the body as I did with the others! Merry Christmas - Sam :)
Hi Sam thanks for this video. Thought I'd check out my Hornby Evening Star. Haven't used it for ages and sure enough strange noise and no movement. Also tender wheels siezed up. What a mess. Must admit was in the loft. Got the motor covers and modified tender chassis coming from ebay. Was surprised to see the ringfield skeleton in the tender.
I got the Mixed Freight train set from about 2016 last year, and both the locos in it suffered from Mazak Rot, and I've not yet been able to acquire the replacement parts needed to repair them.
Did they really?! I wasn't aware of this issue with those - blimey! I've only been able to repair this 9F and the T9 I had! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Thank you for an informative and interesting video. I usually allow all advertisements to run their course as it seems fair to me that producers should enjoy the payments they receive from them. However, a little earlier TH-cam offered an advertisement lasting 88 minutes. It was in the form of a lecture. I chose to skip it after about a minute. I don't know how this may affect you, but an advertisement eight times longer than the video was a surprise and you may wish to look into the matter.
No problem Peter, glad you enjoyed it! Good lord 88 minutes?! Unfortunately I don't have any control over the ads that get shown - though please don't feel inclined to watch ridiculously long ones on my account - I really appreciate your support! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam, is mazak a lead alloy? If it is I wonder if Hornby got the mix fluxed properly? My understanding of metallurgy is a little limited though, if the alloy isn’t fluxed properly the alloy will separate into its separate elements and loose cohesion. Casting bullets, if the tin isn’t present the lead and antimony will not blend and the antimony will form crystals in the lead. I wonder if this could be the case with the mazak?
No, Mazak shouldn't have lead in it - it's lead contaminants that cause the rot. They wouldn't be able to sell it if it was lead, for the old poisoning reasons xD Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sadly, I've had this happen to one of my locos. A few years ago, my Hornby Class 31's chassis crumbled and broke into three. It remains in that state today (although, I do have a newer Class 31 which hasn't suffered from this problem). Good to see the 9F fixed, though!
My experience with Mazak rot wasn't model railway related, but it is Mazak rot nonetheless. Last Christmas, I got a beautiful triang minic model of my favourite ship. It was lovely and I played with it every day and took it to every occasion. It all started when I picked it up last week and noticed pitting and cracks in the rear funnel. I had seen this video and told my dad. My new triang minic Queen Elizabeth comes this Monday.
Hi I'm new to the hobby, but more i have never heard of rot until I got into the hobby. Is it like rust, can it pass from one part to another ? I'm going to look through my collection, have alot of DC between the 50's & 70's.
I have an O scale Lionel 1664 (1947 vintage?) loco with rotting drive wheels. Trying to deal with some missing teeth and chunks out of tires and flanges. I dare not attempt to pull them until there are replacements in my possession.
Great work on fixing it! That crumbling was bad..... but still good advice on making sure your locos don’t have it... that 9f is so pretty I wish I i has one! But I am saving for one! A limited edition one! No: 92212! Evening star may be famous but the 9fs in black are so much more pretty! More me at lest!
Thanks Davis - yeah it was pretty bad - worth checking models before the warranty ends! Awesome - hope you get a 9F some day! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Two class 31's have had the problem (so far!). I'm fairly sure that this model was the first to display the issue. I could have contacted Hornby to ask for replacement chassis but, in the end, I decided to let them soldier on. It's only the extreme ends of the chassis which have suffered (to the extent that the body ends started to crack) and I simply removed the affected parts. I may come to regret that decision in the future!
Just this week my 9f is up and running. I purchased a motor housing from Peters Spares and a new block to house the tender wheels from a chap off ebay who had 3d printed one. My wheels were ok.
My hornby railroad 9f 92221's tender suffered from mazak rot (was bought in 2009). Also the valve gear snapped, so i sold it to a friend as a project. Fingers crossed it is my only rotted loco
I've discovered the same thing going on with my Hornby Thomas(a second hand loco from around 2004) started with the rear coupling disintegrating and now the wheels refuse to turn. motor and wheels are alvagable thankfully and awaiting a new chassis. tempting to just get a replacement locomotive or go for the Bachmann one instead though I prefer the Hornby face
Hi am, thus is Michael from the USA. I had this problem on a hissed Mantua 0-4-0 abolujt 50 years ago, I had not heard of this siituAtion since. I had no idea that kt was still a problem.
Hi Michael - sorry to hear that - it seems everyone except Hornby and Heljan have learned their lesson using cheap materials! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam I am glad you were able to fix your 9F they are fantastic locomotives. I also have a 9F Evening Star well I had 2 the first one I had was the older ring filled motor in the tender it lasted for 2 months then the motor started to smell like a burning smell. I took it to my local model shop to see if it could be fixed and unfortunately it was dead. So I waited a few month as Hornby was bringing out a loco driven 9F so I got that one and she's running very well now. Enjoyed this video very much. Stay safe and take care.
Never heard of 'mazac rot' before Sam, thanks for pointing this out. Wonder if it's only a problem with Hornby or are Bachmann locos prone to the same problem....
No problem Steve - it is pretty nasty! I've never known a Bachmann loco suffer with this, but I'm told some of them have in the past! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Wrenn die cast models made in the UK do not suffer this issue as decent materials were used.I still have my model railway equipment from when I was a nipper in the the 1960s/1970s mainly Triang and it all still runs ok.What happened to quality ?
Hey Sam! Love your videos have been watching quite a few of them to learn and absorb information on 00 model railroading. Do you have any advice for someone in the USA who's just getting into the hobby
I had the frame of the motor in a slide projector break down. By the time I found it, the whole thing was quite soft, and very warped. Needless to say, it was a bin job. I never had it occur to a train though.
I've had mazak rot in two loco's so far, Hornby Rebuilt Patriot, (Chassis and Motor Mounts) and Hornby Standard 4 (Motor Mounts), in both cases, it's been secondhand or scratchbuilt replacements for me as I've had nothing but trouble and double-talk ordering these from Hornby themselves. Again I agree Peters Spares is a goldmine for those hard to get spares.
Hi Sam. What an interesting video. I had never heard of masak rot. The weird thing is why they used the material in the first place. Lead would only be used to give the model weight; as you described the lead as an impurity, then the zinc doesn't make sense at all - why not just a strong plastic (does the mount need to be metal)?
Lead and zinc are the same colour. 'some of the early Dinky production was so plagued by zinc pest that a few batches of some models had already started falling apart by the time their boxes reached the toyshops. Investigation showed that the problem was due to people working in the factories "recycling" small pieces of soft scrap metal (such as lead tags) by throwing them into the mix - lead being fatal to the alloy's structural integrity.' www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/index/Zinc_pest
Thanks very much Paul! Yes the lead is useful for weight, but its presence in mazak causes the material to degrade - the lead isn't intentionally included! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I got my first train set in 1980. It was a Märklin set. It was in a box for over 20 years until 2011. When I took it out and put it on the track, it drove off as happily as before it went into that box.
I've had a Mantua 4-6-2 locomotive that is absolutely riddled with the stuff, the whole body is a few big castings that have all got zinc pest and it has most of the bits dumped into its box. Believe it or not, the thing actually went back to the manufacturer's headquarters in New York and came back worse mechanically.
Mazak was used in the Car industry as well. My 1953 A70 Hereford had chrome-plated door handles, boot handle, front grille and the "Flying A" on the front of the bonnet. (which was also the bonnet catch) You did see the derailed Wagon then. Martin. (Thailand)
So sorry to hear that Simon - worth getting in touch with Hornby actually, as they have a new version of the 9F in stock. The fault is theirs, not yours... would be interesting to see if they'd replace it for you! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I know I do mention the Triang 3Fs quite a bit on your videos, but genuinely would this type of rot be something I'd need to look out for on them? Finding construction info on them is a tad tricky and I've put a lot of work into restoring both of mine (yes another one, a later model BR black one has joined the fold), I'd hate to lose them when they've lasted so long.
Hi Sam ,interesting vid .I have the same model as yourself 92221 and have experienced the same as you with this model .In fact the tender chassis completely disintegrated .I know you can,t get a new chassis for this model .I used a old ringfield motor ,taking off all the bits i didn,t need just to get it running again .I only have the 2 end axles now but it works just fine .The actual loco on this model is such a good and powerful engine that i really didn,t want to scrap it .Ps havn,t taken the loco body off as yet as it,s still running well !!!!
So far, my Hornby 9f is still intact, but 7 of 8 of my Hornby T9's have self destructed - the chassis crumbled. All my trains were kept in a temperature & humidity controlled environment and still they have problems. very sad. I am considering making Brass chassis for the T-9's. My father used to make his locos from scratch out of brass when he was a teenager, so it's not impossible.
Thanks sam for the information on mazac rot. Congratulations on getting your 9F back on the rails. Can not wait to see more videos like. Also thank you for pointing out the facts that can effect the rot and how it is created. Take care
This is very common on wheels on O scale trains, especially Lionel standard gauge. Since most of the engines are made of sheet steel otherwise, it usually just requires new wheels and theyre good to go! Thanks for another great video
It is the bane of some very highly collectible pre-war Lionel pieces. Most notably their famous 700e O gauge scale 4-6-4 Hudson. Some poor fellows have watched their multi-thousand $/£ locos literally crumble to junk over the years. It's amazing to see it happen to a model produced in *this* century though. Don't need to ask where this is manufactured...
I’m glad you could save her! My Q1 has stopped moving suddenly I don’t know if it needs a service or what. I have officially been a fan of this channel for a year Loved the video -Ollie
Really interesting Sam, Ive never seen that before, as I tend to buy old locos it is usfull info. As a side note it was nice to see some dcc, I've been going through your extensive (and excellent)back catalogue and it seems you used to do dcc+dc but you seem to stick to dc these days. Thanks.
Thanks a lot Matthew - glad this was interesting anyway! Yeah I don't often use DCC (DC is just easier), but I should do more digital videos! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam! This might be unrelated, but I was wondering if you have ordered any parts from bachmann's part site. If you have, How long do they usually take to arrive?. I live in California USA for a reference
yep my 9f from hornby has the same problem with the tender but now i know that the motor mounts can have this rotting problem i shall most certainly check it every time i run itwhich is once or twice a year
Hi Sam. I’m looking to get into the hobby and I was wondering, can you vouch for the used locos on Hatton website? I’ve seen they have second hand locos with minor cosmetic issues or “noisy runner” for 40-80 pounds, would you say they are worth picking up or I should just save up and have something a bit more pristine?
I can't necessarily vouch for the locos, but I can vouch for their service - every loco you buy comes with a guarantee, so if there is a problem, you can have a free replacement or your money back! That said, I wouldn't recommend buying anything listed as a 'noisy' or imperfect runner unless you're willing to take on a project - I'd stick with stuff in top working condition! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Mazak rot was always a problem on those old Dublo locos, but I have never encountered it with modern DCC ready locos! This is a serious quality control issue. I think it is exacerbated by damp as you say, but in the case of Dublo models, the rot affects the exterior of the bodywork and not the inside as has happened here. I think the cause of the interior rot is high temperatures. In light of this, I would remove such locos from the loft during the summer. Put them under the floorboards! The problem with a loft is a considerable temperature fluctuation causing repeated expansion and contraction of the Mazak, thus cracking it up.
Was it really?! I didn't know Dublo locos suffered too - blimey! I don't know about high temperatures - I read that it's mainly humidity. I'd like to know if that's true. Even so, they'll still rot :( Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains It seems to me that when it caused by humidity, the paint all blisters and the mazak turns to powder. When it's heat you get cracks, but I have not tested this hypothesis scientifically! I think you could do a Sam's Train's experiment - keep two identical mazak locos, one in the loft and one downstairs. Another more brutal Sam's Trains experiment would be to put the loco alternately in the freezer and then in the loft and see how quickly the mazak is affected! All good fun, thanks for uploading.
I had that issue same with the bogeys on a piece of rolling stock someone gave me, probably because it sat several harsh winters and brutally humid summers in an unheated and uncooled garage. I was able to repair it with Gorilla Glue and I was able to get it on the rails in one piece. Thankfully I've never had that issue with any of my locomotives before.
I've never had any of my Corgi or Dinky toys from the early sixties have this problem. On the other hand, I have seen Chinese supplied materials for aerospace use that simply didn't conform to specification.
I don't think that's true - I've heard of Margate-made models having this problem too - it's just that those are long gone now, rotted away years ago! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I must have between 30-40 Rovex, Triang, Triang-Hornby and Hornby Railways models from early 60's to early 90's and I've never had this problem with any of them. Maybe I've just been lucky.
I am surprised that Hornby would not work on fixing the problem. Was the 9F easy to repair?, because I would like to know if this happens to my Hornby locos it would be a super big deal.
Yeah, they've been very quiet indeed on this issue! Hopefully they're use decent quality materials these days! The 9F was easy, but only because parts were available. When the chassis fails on other models, there's not much can be done :( Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hello again sam I have a few more questions for you (also I would like to contact you about a old engine that I have that is broken if that’s alright). Not how often should you service a loco. B. Should traction wheels be purged from this earth. C. Did your 9F get thanosed? D. What is your favourite wheel class of loco (example. 040 260). E do you know that you are the hand of god
Sure - fire away! I service mine every year. Traction tyres should indeed be purged from this earth. My favourite config would be 4-4-0! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hello Sam ... I love your videos ... I've learn'd a lot about model trains thanks to you. Keep on going ! ... Incidentally you speak about "mazac rot", I would like to point out that it is "Zamac, non mazac" .. (Z for zinc, A for aluminium, MA for magnesium and C for copper ... That's the composition of the alloy) ... Have a nice day
@@SamsTrains That's UK-History. Can be found on wikipedia. Zamac and Mazac are basically the same, but Mazak was a UK brand (using a patent to replace one of the US metals by locally UK produced metal) Thanks to wiki, as my first thought was the same... And I had this issue with a Roco SBB C5/6 steam loco. They used zamac (or mazac) for the whole tender interior. It blocked all moving parts on this tender driven loco. Luckily there was a recall so I got the whole tender replaced FOC. And mine was actually second hand bought at a rallye... (good warranty conditions ;-) )
I don't think so, I'd never even heard of it before today. I do have an old locamotive that stopped working and it's symptoms are kinda similar to what you described before you took this one apart. I don't have the know how or the time to fix it up now, but I'm keeping it for now. Best case I'll fix it and it'll work, worst case I'll take the motor out of it and use it as weathering practice and scenery.
I have a hornby model of Evening Star that I now realise may have died the same way, though I never investigated it at the time and it's just been a shelf decoration, this video may end up helping me bring it back to life!
@@SamsTrains I ended up opening it and found instead it suffered from a set of contacts being mangled and one of the gears slipping out of place, though since the gear in question is buried deep inside the chassis I've settled for just gently tapping it to get it back into place for now.
I didn't see a way, since the middle set didn't come with bearings. I will source a replacement tender some day - this was just a temporary fix to keep the loco in service! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hey Sam, I've had zinc-pest attack old double O stock but I have Lionel stuff going back to before WWII without any issues. However some newer production has it and you know where that comes from!
prewar Lionel Corp wheels have nearly all been replaced, good replacement castings being available from the immediate postwar period. original wheels in good shape are nearly unheard of. standard gauge suffering worse due to the sheer mass.
hey sam recently had a old hornby 9f evening star given to me for my birthday today put her on track loco chassis crumbled thank god i got parts for it :)
i had an early james mk I with the screw in the left hand side of the boydshell the chassis broke into two parts with i though metal fatigue but it looks like it might be this mazac rot you talking about - it was the chassis it just broke into the two bits i just binned it and got a chassis from another james on ebay i think it may have been my local toy shop he had a box full of chassis cant remember now but it did not allow me to fit the bottom plate for the pick ups so i left it off - it got repainted as a black and yellow james but the tender pick ups are fine - been no more touch wood
if anything has zinc pest you should replace it immediately, because the zinc also expands and can therefore damage sourrounding parts. I guess thats also what stopped the flywheel
I’ve just bought a second hand evening star 9F with medium to decent quality paint job wise but the train is a little janky as in it moves well but then stops for a second then goes back and performs again and it does have a slight Diesel kind of after smell to it so I was just wondering if you have any knowledge on the subject I’m kind of new to the hornby hobbie I’ve had two steam locomotives for about 5-10 years now and they work perfectly but I’m just not that acquainted with the inner system and workings of the model locomotives so I was just wondering if you could help me out and I don’t want to ruin the train that I’ve just bought neither so I’m not too sure how to get into the train without ruining the inner mechanism
Im thinking of starting a small model train railway with my father So what are your tips for me to start? Which train set would i buy first? I dont really want to spend a lot of money but just around £50
That's tricky mate - there are some good starter sets out there for £50 - take a look at Mehano or Hornby sets, there are some good deals online! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)
![ILLSLICK - WINTER IS COMING [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dwTMeM1zIhQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Plastic cancer, it's very sinister and is a complete model and toy destroyer
Sam’s Trains 2018: Trains.
Sam’s Trains 2019: Science experiments on trains.
Sam’s Trains 2020: Science lesson, with trains.
haha sorry if it was like a science lesson! XD
Sam’s trains 2021: SCIENCE!
yeah just throw away the trains Completely
Sam'sTrains Oh no, I quite enjoyed it, I like learning new things. L
Samstrains The Science Guy
Just a quick note to say you were the talk of our model railway club this week concerning the mazak rot. I have a T9 and my motor was found to have this rot, on phoning Hornby and spoke to a guy called Matt who to his credit was absolutely 1st class and said he was totally aware of the situation and offered to fix it if I posted my loco to him or would send me the part free of charge.Congratulations Hornby, I cant thank you enough. 1st class service from a 1st class company.
Sam the tender can be repaired. I just fitted some hornby spoked wheels straight in. It's a bit tricky getting the pinpoint axles into the axle boxes but there are holes ready to accept them. This also means the pick ups can be put back too. The more common fault, especially with the super detail tender drive variant is for loco chassis rot. I managed to buy a chassis on eBay and replace. But be warned... although the "S####" part number is the same, the casting isn't. It took a lot of milling to get the body to sit right. This is same problem for loco drive too. What's more complete rebuild of the 9f is quite tricky. In fact if I had known how much trouble it would have caused me I wouldn't have bothered. Finally I just want to say that mazak pest affects ALL manufacturers, not just Hornby. One of the online forums has put together a while spreadsheet of models and their problems. Typically it affects batches, so as you say your T9 may have a bad motor mount, mine have all been fine. So the list online is specific to loco running number.
Hope this all helps.
Is that so?? I didn't realise there were holes - I'll look into that, thank you! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
39 seconds, 2 views, 2 likes
*perfectly balanced as all things should be*
haha! xD
I had one loco with this problem a mainline GWR mogul the damage was terminal as the motor mount is part of the chassis. All my other locos (some very elderly) are ok. Glad you fixed the 9F.
Ahh sorry to hear that Paul - yes I've had issues with the Mainline locos too!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Great video I have had the same problem with my old Tyco engines and some of my old Bachmann they just fell apart. now I know why thanks a lot Sam your videos are so informative.
Sorry to hear that mate - yes it sucks doesn't it?! :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam, yes, but probably not the Hornby loco you were expecting - it's in the range of (Hornby) Dinky Toys 1935 Silver Jubilee streamlined articulated set No16. Most of the pre-war trains - carriages and locos - the ones with the cut-out windows - suffer from Mazac rot. Very few still have all their couplings and wheels intact. They were still made post war, with garter blue A4 and teak coaches, and later still in BR Green, with "blood and custard" coaches. You don't often see a good silver and grey pre-war set. The Hornby Dublo pre-war clockwork locos (yes, 00 gauge clockwork) are also very difficult to find now in good condition.
Thanks for your cheerful and interesting videos, which are always a treat to watch now we are still confined to our homes. Cheers, Peter T.
Very interesting Peter - thanks for this, I'll look out for those! You're very kind mate!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Model Locomotive Expert: I know everything about trains!
Sam: you know I’m something of a model loco expert myself
Great video sam! I can’t wait for more! Also did you realise the tender was missing one set of wheels?
haha thanks mate! Yeah I did realise - the tender only has two sets of bearings, the middle axle just fitted into a slot, which crumbled away :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam, thanks for explaining 'mazak rot'. I have an Atlas n-gauge K4 where the chassis had swelled up, jamming the wheels (subsequently the motor burnt out!). When I tried to squeeze it back into shape, it crumbled to bits! Now I know why. I can't find a replacement so it will have to be 3-D printed. Keep 'em coming.
No problem mate - ahh sorry to hear that, that sounds like a classic case :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
If any of my locomotives were irreparable, I’d keep them either as static display.
Yeah absolutely - that's a good idea! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Yeah, I'd keep 'em for static display too -- either as props for a scene, or just sitting on the mantle as a neat decoration. Especially with 3D printing these days - you could easily craft some simple non-functional parts to replace anything structural that dissolved. I did stuff like that back in my model railway days, but with a pocket knife and a bit of scrap wood! Alternatively, their non-rotting parts could be used to repair other locomotives, either for yourself, or your friends, or randos on ebay ;)
Yes. *Model Minutes* did just that the other day :D .
Morning Sam, I've had Mazak rot problems on the Hornby Rebuilt Merchant Navy. Got R2268 35027 Port Line out for a run and the front bogie wasn't spinning, was seized up completely. So I attempted to unscrew it and it just crumbled away...
Fortunately though I have a spare dead Merchant Navy being gradually cannibalised for spares so was able to replace the front bogie and now Port Line runs good as new. Worryingly though I can see some cracks in another of my Merchants.
Morning! Sorry to hear about your Merchant Navy - yes I've heard of the front bogies going bust before on those - completely unacceptable of course :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Some of the older MNs/BBs/WCs since about 2006 are a real pain especially when Hornby will currently not accept any loco over 10years old for repair, these are expensive items and shouldn’t happen even when stored carefully. Sam’s informative video on the Mazak/Zinc rot problem was as great and thorough as ever
2:57 those motor mounts look almost like the ones found on a older Athearn locomotive,
Ooh really? That's very interesting! :O
@@SamsTrains I could probably show you on Twitter, whenever I get around to it
Madam rot. I learned something new today! Great video and learned a lot from this. I. Amazed how brittle the model had become. I’m a big fan of the 9f so was happy to see this return to service. Hope your well, Clint
Thanks Clint - yes it was shockingly brittle wasn't it?! :O
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
5:00 I knocked on some wood for you!🤣
haha thank you! ;D
My 9F, exactly the same as yours, is suffering big time in the tender. The wheels don't turn at all and it's just dragged along. Think I'll try your method of just gluing the wheels directly to the chassis. Can't find spare parts anywhere.
Sorry to hear that mate - yes that doesn't sound right, definitely worth investigating, it's a very common issue with these!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Well Zinkpest should be no issue on an 10 years old locomotive!
Thats a serious quality issue!
That's why you never buy hornby 👍
@@davidrobson1224 Never bought new Hornby. But have an old O-Gauge wagon from the 30s from them. No problems with these...
I wouldn't say never buy Hornby - the number of affected models is very low - but it's still unacceptable!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Paul Horn you do know other companies locos have also had these problems?
@@idonotlikeboats9328 In historic times, when there where O-Gauge clockwork trains, the Zinkpest was normal. In our age the only other company where I heard of such problems, was a little company from austria, which went bust some years ago.
Well done Sam. I have had to failures one was my 40 year old Hornby class 91 225 and the other 22 year old King George Vth. Both failed on the drive gear that turns the gears. I replaced them with brass that should last a bit longer.
Thanks a lot Philip - sorry to hear that, glad you were able to fix them up though! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Cheap Chinese metal i bet
Never known a Margate built loco suffer from zincpest. This only started when Hornby moved production china. Very poor quality control over there.
Yes I've heard Margate locos had this problem too - but in this case, yes it's cheap materials used in China!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
As a collector of old Tin toys i can certanly confirm that it's sometime a huge problem with very old zink based castings. If it's new made pieces t's most likly because they use very sheap sources for zink, the Zink component -must- be properly purified before it goes into the alloy in order to prevent zincpest apear soone ror later.
Monkey metal
The tender wheels probably just worn out I put loob on my wheels on my wagons/tenders
Hi Sam, yes i have had 3 Hornby 9f tenders do this and i have replaced each chassis with lima class 37 or 47 bogie chassis parts which has sorted them out but the chassis of all the locos are ok. cheers , Alan.
Ahh sorry to hear that mate - that sounds great, good idea for a fix! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Today we have Sam's hulk impression
haha!! xD
I’ve got one of those and had the same problem with the tender chassis, I sourced a replacement chassis for the tender off of ebay ,and it’s fine now , I had the loco body off the other day to fit a firebox glow effect and everything seems well .
Yes - it's a common issue with the tender chassis apparently! Great work finding a replacement - I'll have to look too!!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
This is really useful. My DC railroad 9F hasn’t worked for some time. It makes a buzzing noise and doesn’t move like yours did. When I’ve had it apart in the past I’ve been able to get the motor to spin very happily but when together it won’t. I wonder if it needs the same parts replacing to get it to properly engage the gear and worm drive.
Ahh sorry to hear that - yes it could well have the same problem - sounds just like him!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam'sTrains I’ve had it open and found a loose connection to the motor which h I’ve fixed. Running better at the moment but the motor sometimes doesn’t like to start up. If I give the flywheel a spin it goes quite happily. I’ll keep working on it.
Wow...good job Sam on reviveing this model....
I had zinc pest on my expensive Brawa br 06 boiler ( model about 12+years old) it fell apart...
A new boiler is soon to be bought but its an expensive part to order.
Thanks a lot mate! Ahh sorry to hear that - that's awful :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I have this problem with One of my Hornby 0 gauge Locos. It is a 1932 Royal scot. The wheels are cracked quite badly but the previous owner has used a sort of epoxy resin. It works quite well. Thanks for sharing, this will probably help me out in the future.
Ahh that's a pity - interesting about the resin though!!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Thanks for replying!
Hello Sam. Thanks for adding this! I have the same model with the same problem and I now know the reason why it's not working, so thanks! Do you know the item number on ebay for the replacement parts or the sellers name as I can't seem to find them? Also any idea how to remove the wheels from the tender? All 3 wheels have seized on mine and I can't work out how to remove them?
Good vid, Sam.
I had Mazak rot once thus, hopefully won't have a 2nd. Was removing a Hornby Toby motor to see if it would fit a different loco and the mount snapped off...errrm...so I tried to glue it back on, and with handling it the chassis literally snapped in half. Utter tripe!
I had a similar issuse with my Hornby Toby and I think Bill and Ben are the same.
Thanks very much! Sorry to hear that - that's not good at all - yes I've heard that too Taggart!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam,
Very informative. I was glad you were able to fix that model. It looks good now.
Jim
Thanks a lot Jim - I was very happy with this! :D
I had the dreaded mazak rot on a Hornby T9, your previous video on that was very useful when I fixed it last year, so thanks for that, she runs smooth as anything now!
Great to hear you fixed it mate - well done! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
This is a worrying issue Sam, thank goodness you're there to keep us up to speed...Bob
Thanks Bob - yes it is terrible isn't it? Cheers mate!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I've been model railroading since 1957. This was a recurring problem back then, probably worse than this case. In America, the metal was called zamac. I haven't heard that word in decades until this transliteration. Thanks for resurrecting memories from my pioneer days..
Wow John, that's a long time! Great pity about this problem - fingers crossed the manufacturers have cracked it now!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Great bit of info, and a reassuring repair example.
Something I'm now going to check for with my stash of 00 for.
Sam I have a merchant navy, a3 and black 5 made between 2005-2012 could these get mazac rot?
I'm not sure mate - it's worth just checking them over!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I had a problem with Mazak rot on one of my 9F's. But it was the back of the chassis that went.it actually snapped of the the main part of the chassis. But as you say it can affect any engine. I also lost a Riverossi Big Boy to this problem. Out of curiosity why did you not replace the middle wheel of the tender.
Ahh sorry to hear that Gerard, it's devastating really isn't it? The middle tender wheel had no bearing with it, so I couldn't just glue it inside the body as I did with the others!
Merry Christmas - Sam :)
Hi Sam thanks for this video. Thought I'd check out my Hornby Evening Star. Haven't used it for ages and sure enough strange noise and no movement. Also tender wheels siezed up. What a mess. Must admit was in the loft. Got the motor covers and modified tender chassis coming from ebay. Was surprised to see the ringfield skeleton in the tender.
I got the Mixed Freight train set from about 2016 last year, and both the locos in it suffered from Mazak Rot, and I've not yet been able to acquire the replacement parts needed to repair them.
Did they really?! I wasn't aware of this issue with those - blimey! I've only been able to repair this 9F and the T9 I had!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Thank you for an informative and interesting video.
I usually allow all advertisements to run their course as it seems fair to me that producers should enjoy the payments they receive from them.
However, a little earlier TH-cam offered an advertisement lasting 88 minutes. It was in the form of a lecture. I chose to skip it after about a minute.
I don't know how this may affect you, but an advertisement eight times longer than the video was a surprise and you may wish to look into the matter.
No problem Peter, glad you enjoyed it! Good lord 88 minutes?! Unfortunately I don't have any control over the ads that get shown - though please don't feel inclined to watch ridiculously long ones on my account - I really appreciate your support!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam, is mazak a lead alloy? If it is I wonder if Hornby got the mix fluxed properly? My understanding of metallurgy is a little limited though, if the alloy isn’t fluxed properly the alloy will separate into its separate elements and loose cohesion. Casting bullets, if the tin isn’t present the lead and antimony will not blend and the antimony will form crystals in the lead. I wonder if this could be the case with the mazak?
No, Mazak shouldn't have lead in it - it's lead contaminants that cause the rot. They wouldn't be able to sell it if it was lead, for the old poisoning reasons xD
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi Sam glad you got the 9 F up and running as you know it happened to my T 9 but i got it sorted thanks to you cheers mate.
Thanks a lot Tony - yes sorry to hear that, but glad it was all okay in the end! :D
Cheers,
Sam :)
Sadly, I've had this happen to one of my locos. A few years ago, my Hornby Class 31's chassis crumbled and broke into three. It remains in that state today (although, I do have a newer Class 31 which hasn't suffered from this problem).
Good to see the 9F fixed, though!
Sorry to hear that Chris - yes the 31 is very well known for that :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
My experience with Mazak rot wasn't model railway related, but it is Mazak rot nonetheless. Last Christmas, I got a beautiful triang minic model of my favourite ship. It was lovely and I played with it every day and took it to every occasion. It all started when I picked it up last week and noticed pitting and cracks in the rear funnel. I had seen this video and told my dad. My new triang minic Queen Elizabeth comes this Monday.
Hi I'm new to the hobby, but more i have never heard of rot until I got into the hobby. Is it like rust, can it pass from one part to another ? I'm going to look through my collection, have alot of DC between the 50's & 70's.
I have an O scale Lionel 1664 (1947 vintage?) loco with rotting drive wheels. Trying to deal with some missing teeth and chunks out of tires and flanges. I dare not attempt to pull them until there are replacements in my possession.
Ahh sorry to hear that - all the best with it mate!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
great video.hence the need for a good parts backup from hornby..it was easy in the margate days for parts. just phone up !!
Yes this is true - though I was quite impressed at how easily I found the parts I needed for this! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Great work on fixing it! That crumbling was bad..... but still good advice on making sure your locos don’t have it... that 9f is so pretty I wish I i has one! But I am saving for one! A limited edition one! No: 92212! Evening star may be famous but the 9fs in black are so much more pretty! More me at lest!
Thanks Davis - yeah it was pretty bad - worth checking models before the warranty ends! Awesome - hope you get a 9F some day! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Two class 31's have had the problem (so far!). I'm fairly sure that this model was the first to display the issue. I could have contacted Hornby to ask for replacement chassis but, in the end, I decided to let them soldier on. It's only the extreme ends of the chassis which have suffered (to the extent that the body ends started to crack) and I simply removed the affected parts. I may come to regret that decision in the future!
Yes you're right about the 31 - they're very well known for the rot! Are they still in running order then?!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Very informative video Sam, wasn’t aware of this issues before with model locos. Also what kind of Brakevan is the 9F pulling in the video there?
Thanks mate! That's an old Hornby/Triang BR brakevan - I think it's still in Hornby's railroad range! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Just this week my 9f is up and running. I purchased a motor housing from Peters Spares and a new block to house the tender wheels from a chap off ebay who had 3d printed one. My wheels were ok.
I have the same loco, I have the same issue with it galling apart particularly on the tender, but I haven't checked the motor or anything else
Ahh sorry to hear that - it seems a very common issue :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
My hornby railroad 9f 92221's tender suffered from mazak rot (was bought in 2009). Also the valve gear snapped, so i sold it to a friend as a project. Fingers crossed it is my only rotted loco
Sorry to hear that mate, yes it's very common with the tenders :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I have the same issue with some of my old F7s. When I took the shell off, the frame crumbled.
I've discovered the same thing going on with my Hornby Thomas(a second hand loco from around 2004) started with the rear coupling disintegrating and now the wheels refuse to turn. motor and wheels are alvagable thankfully and awaiting a new chassis. tempting to just get a replacement locomotive or go for the Bachmann one instead though I prefer the Hornby face
Ahh so sorry to hear that mate - hope all is better with the new chassis!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi am, thus is Michael from the USA. I had this problem on a hissed Mantua 0-4-0 abolujt 50 years ago, I had not heard of this siituAtion since. I had no idea that kt was still a problem.
Hi Michael - sorry to hear that - it seems everyone except Hornby and Heljan have learned their lesson using cheap materials!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I wasn't aware of Mazak Rot beforehand, but I'll have to keep an eye out for it in the future, so thank you for the warning.
Thanks Patrick, yeah it's worth looking out for it!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam I am glad you were able to fix your 9F they are fantastic locomotives. I also have a 9F Evening Star well I had 2 the first one I had was the older ring filled motor in the tender it lasted for 2 months then the motor started to smell like a burning smell. I took it to my local model shop to see if it could be fixed and unfortunately it was dead. So I waited a few month as Hornby was bringing out a loco driven 9F so I got that one and she's running very well now. Enjoyed this video very much. Stay safe and take care.
Thanks Stu - yes they are lovely models indeed! Sorry to hear about yours mate :'(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Never heard of 'mazac rot' before Sam, thanks for pointing this out. Wonder if it's only a problem with Hornby or are Bachmann locos prone to the same problem....
No problem Steve - it is pretty nasty! I've never known a Bachmann loco suffer with this, but I'm told some of them have in the past!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Wrenn die cast models made in the UK do not suffer this issue as decent materials were used.I still have my model railway equipment from when I was a nipper in the the 1960s/1970s mainly Triang and it all still runs ok.What happened to quality ?
Hey Sam! Love your videos have been watching quite a few of them to learn and absorb information on 00 model railroading. Do you have any advice for someone in the USA who's just getting into the hobby
I had the frame of the motor in a slide projector break down. By the time I found it, the whole thing was quite soft, and very warped. Needless to say, it was a bin job. I never had it occur to a train though.
I've had mazak rot in two loco's so far, Hornby Rebuilt Patriot, (Chassis and Motor Mounts) and Hornby Standard 4 (Motor Mounts), in both cases, it's been secondhand or scratchbuilt replacements for me as I've had nothing but trouble and double-talk ordering these from Hornby themselves. Again I agree Peters Spares is a goldmine for those hard to get spares.
Sorry to hear that Frank - yes both of those are known for those failures - it's a great shame :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam. What an interesting video. I had never heard of masak rot. The weird thing is why they used the material in the first place. Lead would only be used to give the model weight; as you described the lead as an impurity, then the zinc doesn't make sense at all - why not just a strong plastic (does the mount need to be metal)?
Lead and zinc are the same colour.
'some of the early Dinky production was so plagued by zinc pest that a few batches of some models had already started falling apart by the time their boxes reached the toyshops. Investigation showed that the problem was due to people working in the factories "recycling" small pieces of soft scrap metal (such as lead tags) by throwing them into the mix - lead being fatal to the alloy's structural integrity.'
www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/index/Zinc_pest
Thanks very much Paul! Yes the lead is useful for weight, but its presence in mazak causes the material to degrade - the lead isn't intentionally included!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I got my first train set in 1980. It was a Märklin set. It was in a box for over 20 years until 2011. When I took it out and put it on the track, it drove off as happily as before it went into that box.
Oh wow - that's exactly what you want!! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I've had a Mantua 4-6-2 locomotive that is absolutely riddled with the stuff, the whole body is a few big castings that have all got zinc pest and it has most of the bits dumped into its box.
Believe it or not, the thing actually went back to the manufacturer's headquarters in New York and came back worse mechanically.
Ahh sorry to hear that mate - it's such a nuisance isn't it?! :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Nice job, enjoyed that one, noticed the Tilman wagon next to the brake van was de-railed !!!!
Thank you! haha well spotted!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Mazak was used in the Car industry as well. My 1953 A70 Hereford had chrome-plated door handles, boot handle, front grille and the "Flying A" on the front of the bonnet. (which was also the bonnet catch) You did see the derailed Wagon then. Martin. (Thailand)
Oh really?! Did they crumble away too then? :O
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Yes, but under the chrome. That is why I wanted them rechromed.
All this happened to mine last weekend..Motor mountings, tender chasis and part of the motor housing all gone.
So sorry to hear that Simon - worth getting in touch with Hornby actually, as they have a new version of the 9F in stock. The fault is theirs, not yours... would be interesting to see if they'd replace it for you!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I know I do mention the Triang 3Fs quite a bit on your videos, but genuinely would this type of rot be something I'd need to look out for on them? Finding construction info on them is a tad tricky and I've put a lot of work into restoring both of mine (yes another one, a later model BR black one has joined the fold), I'd hate to lose them when they've lasted so long.
Thanks for the comment - no I wouldn't worry - older models would have failed by now if they were affected!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam ,interesting vid .I have the same model as yourself 92221 and have experienced the same as you with this model .In fact the tender chassis completely disintegrated .I know you can,t get a new chassis for this model .I used a old ringfield motor ,taking off all the bits i didn,t need just to get it running again .I only have the 2 end axles now but it works just fine .The actual loco on this model is such a good and powerful engine that i really didn,t want to scrap it .Ps havn,t taken the loco body off as yet as it,s still running well !!!!
Thanks Lester - sorry to hear you've had the same problem. Great idea with the ring-field motor though - I like that!! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
So far, my Hornby 9f is still intact, but 7 of 8 of my Hornby T9's have self destructed - the chassis crumbled. All my trains were kept in a temperature & humidity controlled environment and still they have problems. very sad. I am considering making Brass chassis for the T-9's. My father used to make his locos from scratch out of brass when he was a teenager, so it's not impossible.
Thanks sam for the information on mazac rot. Congratulations on getting your 9F back on the rails. Can not wait to see more videos like. Also thank you for pointing out the facts that can effect the rot and how it is created. Take care
No problem Luke, thanks a lot mate - I was very glad to do it!! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
This is very common on wheels on O scale trains, especially Lionel standard gauge. Since most of the engines are made of sheet steel otherwise, it usually just requires new wheels and theyre good to go!
Thanks for another great video
Was it really?! It really is a horrible problem!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains It was the same with hot wheels cars from the 60s and 70s
It is the bane of some very highly collectible pre-war Lionel pieces. Most notably their famous 700e O gauge scale 4-6-4 Hudson. Some poor fellows have watched their multi-thousand $/£ locos literally crumble to junk over the years.
It's amazing to see it happen to a model produced in *this* century though. Don't need to ask where this is manufactured...
I’m glad you could save her! My Q1 has stopped moving suddenly I don’t know if it needs a service or what. I have officially been a fan of this channel for a year
Loved the video
-Ollie
Yeah I'd take a look mate - see if there's anything you can do to fix it! Thanks so much for the support Ollie! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Really interesting Sam, Ive never seen that before, as I tend to buy old locos it is usfull info. As a side note it was nice to see some dcc, I've been going through your extensive (and excellent)back catalogue and it seems you used to do dcc+dc but you seem to stick to dc these days. Thanks.
Thanks a lot Matthew - glad this was interesting anyway! Yeah I don't often use DCC (DC is just easier), but I should do more digital videos! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam! This might be unrelated, but I was wondering if you have ordered any parts from bachmann's part site. If you have, How long do they usually take to arrive?. I live in California USA for a reference
No I never have - the prices always frightened me, so I always made do without! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam
I have a T9 that hasn't been out of the box in years. I'm hoping it's not got zinc rot as it one of my favorite models😬
It's worth checking it mate - though replacement motor mounts are available if so! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Thanks for that. Never realised, so I’ll be getting my very old trains out and checking them!
Good luck Tony, fingers crossed yours are fine!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
yep my 9f from hornby has the same problem with the tender but now i know that the motor mounts can have this rotting problem i shall most certainly check it every time i run itwhich is once or twice a year
So sorry to hear that - see if you can get some replacement mountings - they worked a treat for me! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hello Sam, very informative video 😊😊 quick question? Do they newer 9fs (the Franco Crosti boilers 9fs) suffer with this problem?
Thanks a lot Benjamin - not to my knowledge, I think those are fine!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam. I’m looking to get into the hobby and I was wondering, can you vouch for the used locos on Hatton website? I’ve seen they have second hand locos with minor cosmetic issues or “noisy runner” for 40-80 pounds, would you say they are worth picking up or I should just save up and have something a bit more pristine?
I can't necessarily vouch for the locos, but I can vouch for their service - every loco you buy comes with a guarantee, so if there is a problem, you can have a free replacement or your money back! That said, I wouldn't recommend buying anything listed as a 'noisy' or imperfect runner unless you're willing to take on a project - I'd stick with stuff in top working condition!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Mazak rot was always a problem on those old Dublo locos, but I have never encountered it with modern DCC ready locos! This is a serious quality control issue. I think it is exacerbated by damp as you say, but in the case of Dublo models, the rot affects the exterior of the bodywork and not the inside as has happened here. I think the cause of the interior rot is high temperatures. In light of this, I would remove such locos from the loft during the summer. Put them under the floorboards! The problem with a loft is a considerable temperature fluctuation causing repeated expansion and contraction of the Mazak, thus cracking it up.
Was it really?! I didn't know Dublo locos suffered too - blimey! I don't know about high temperatures - I read that it's mainly humidity. I'd like to know if that's true. Even so, they'll still rot :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains It seems to me that when it caused by humidity, the paint all blisters and the mazak turns to powder. When it's heat you get cracks, but I have not tested this hypothesis scientifically! I think you could do a Sam's Train's experiment - keep two identical mazak locos, one in the loft and one downstairs. Another more brutal Sam's Trains experiment would be to put the loco alternately in the freezer and then in the loft and see how quickly the mazak is affected! All good fun, thanks for uploading.
This is brilliant! For one reason! It’s my Sister’s Birthday Rebecca. Also great video and how much do you service your trains?
Thanks mate! Ahh really? I service each loco once per year! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam'sTrains is there any tips you could give me about serving my Hornby Gordon?
Are you going to do anything about the tender now the loco is repaired? Yes I have had one issue with my T9.
Yes I hope to find a whole replacement some day! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I had that issue same with the bogeys on a piece of rolling stock someone gave me, probably because it sat several harsh winters and brutally humid summers in an unheated and uncooled garage. I was able to repair it with Gorilla Glue and I was able to get it on the rails in one piece. Thankfully I've never had that issue with any of my locomotives before.
Sorry to hear that mate - it is awful isn't it? Glad you ere able to make some repairs!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
How old was your locomotive when it started rotting?
I've never had any of my Corgi or Dinky toys from the early sixties have this problem. On the other hand, I have seen Chinese supplied materials for aerospace use that simply didn't conform to specification.
Yep. I reckon it's a pretty safe bet that mazac rot is only to be found in locos produced from 1995 after production stopped at the Margate factory.
I don't think that's true - I've heard of Margate-made models having this problem too - it's just that those are long gone now, rotted away years ago!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains
I must have between 30-40 Rovex, Triang, Triang-Hornby and Hornby Railways models from early 60's to early 90's and I've never had this problem with any of them. Maybe I've just been lucky.
are you ever going to complete repairs on the tender? or perhaps source a replacement?
Yeah - I think it'll just have to be replaced!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I am surprised that Hornby would not work on fixing the problem. Was the 9F easy to repair?, because I would like to know if this happens to my Hornby locos it would be a super big deal.
Yeah, they've been very quiet indeed on this issue! Hopefully they're use decent quality materials these days! The 9F was easy, but only because parts were available. When the chassis fails on other models, there's not much can be done :(
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hello again sam I have a few more questions for you (also I would like to contact you about a old engine that I have that is broken if that’s alright). Not how often should you service a loco. B. Should traction wheels be purged from this earth. C. Did your 9F get thanosed? D. What is your favourite wheel class of loco (example. 040 260). E do you know that you are the hand of god
Sure - fire away! I service mine every year. Traction tyres should indeed be purged from this earth. My favourite config would be 4-4-0! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hello Sam ... I love your videos ... I've learn'd a lot about model trains thanks to you. Keep on going ! ... Incidentally you speak about "mazac rot", I would like to point out that it is "Zamac, non mazac" .. (Z for zinc, A for aluminium, MA for magnesium and C for copper ... That's the composition of the alloy) ... Have a nice day
Thanks very much Guy, that's lovely to read. Duly noted on that - I wasn't aware that these weren't mazak!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains That's UK-History. Can be found on wikipedia. Zamac and Mazac are basically the same, but Mazak was a UK brand (using a patent to replace one of the US metals by locally UK produced metal) Thanks to wiki, as my first thought was the same...
And I had this issue with a Roco SBB C5/6 steam loco. They used zamac (or mazac) for the whole tender interior. It blocked all moving parts on this tender driven loco. Luckily there was a recall so I got the whole tender replaced FOC. And mine was actually second hand bought at a rallye... (good warranty conditions ;-) )
I don't think so, I'd never even heard of it before today.
I do have an old locamotive that stopped working and it's symptoms are kinda similar to what you described before you took this one apart.
I don't have the know how or the time to fix it up now, but I'm keeping it for now.
Best case I'll fix it and it'll work, worst case I'll take the motor out of it and use it as weathering practice and scenery.
Glad to hear that mate - it seems not too many models suffer from this (thank goodness!), all the best with it mate! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I have a hornby model of Evening Star that I now realise may have died the same way, though I never investigated it at the time and it's just been a shelf decoration, this video may end up helping me bring it back to life!
Ahh interesting - yes it could well have been that - worth having a look!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I ended up opening it and found instead it suffered from a set of contacts being mangled and one of the gears slipping out of place, though since the gear in question is buried deep inside the chassis I've settled for just gently tapping it to get it back into place for now.
12 wheel loco four wheel tender!
Question: I have my eye out for a 2-8-0. I run on 2nd radius track. Might this be a problem?
haha I know, lol! Most 2-8-0s (at least Hornby and Bachmann ones) can handle 2nd radius! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Is it caused by a metal chassis (that's the framework and not the wheels right?)
Sam, is there nothing that can be done for the center set of wheels of the tender so that it runs as a six-wheeled tender again even without pickups?
I didn't see a way, since the middle set didn't come with bearings. I will source a replacement tender some day - this was just a temporary fix to keep the loco in service!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hey Sam, I've had zinc-pest attack old double O stock but I have Lionel stuff going back to before WWII without any issues. However some newer production has it and you know where that comes from!
Yup. I never saw any Lionels affected by this.
Yeah - some batches are fine forever, some not - it's unfortunate :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
prewar Lionel Corp wheels have nearly all been replaced, good replacement castings being available from the immediate postwar period. original wheels in good shape are nearly unheard of. standard gauge suffering worse due to the sheer mass.
hey sam recently had a old hornby 9f evening star given to me for my birthday today put her on track loco chassis crumbled thank god i got parts for it :)
Sorry to hear that Dan - did you manage to get it running okay? :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
i had an early james mk I with the screw in the left hand side of the boydshell the chassis broke into two parts with i though metal fatigue but it looks like it might be this mazac rot you talking about - it was the chassis it just broke into the two bits i just binned it and got a chassis from another james on ebay i think it may have been my local toy shop he had a box full of chassis cant remember now but it did not allow me to fit the bottom plate for the pick ups so i left it off - it got repainted as a black and yellow james but the tender pick ups are fine - been no more touch wood
Ahh sorry to hear that mate - yes it could well have been that! Glad to hear you managed to find a solution though! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
My Hornby Class 37 leans to one side, any suggestions on why/how to fix? Cheers buddy
Oh blimey - are the bogies fitted correctly?? That's all I can think of! Are the traction tyres still fitted??
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam'sTrains I believe all tyres there, how many should these have? The whole chassis just has a lot of body roll
if anything has zinc pest you should replace it immediately, because the zinc also expands and can therefore damage sourrounding parts. I guess thats also what stopped the flywheel
Ahh is that so?? I wasn't aware of that, duly noted!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I’ve just bought a second hand evening star 9F with medium to decent quality paint job wise but the train is a little janky as in it moves well but then stops for a second then goes back and performs again and it does have a slight Diesel kind of after smell to it so I was just wondering if you have any knowledge on the subject I’m kind of new to the hornby hobbie I’ve had two steam locomotives for about 5-10 years now and they work perfectly but I’m just not that acquainted with the inner system and workings of the model locomotives so I was just wondering if you could help me out and I don’t want to ruin the train that I’ve just bought neither so I’m not too sure how to get into the train without ruining the inner mechanism
Im thinking of starting a small model train railway with my father
So what are your tips for me to start? Which train set would i buy first? I dont really want to spend a lot of money but just around £50
I'd say look on eBay, but be careful. Read the sellers feedback.
@@Poliss95 ok thanks
That's tricky mate - there are some good starter sets out there for £50 - take a look at Mehano or Hornby sets, there are some good deals online! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)