To those who are doing this for the first time, Id highly recommend taking a picture of the crankpin area before disassembling...those washers/spacers and rod order is very important! A picture takes 2 seconds to take, and will save you lots of trouble in the long run!
Thanks Sam for the inspiration and giving me the confidence to purge traction tyres and put a plain wheelset (3 quid) on my Hornby 14XX (R2381, circa 2004). it now runs great, especially slow speed over points, no more stalling!
Sam, get a gauge block, They come from ebay or Gaugemaster, made from brass, they slip between the wheels and guarantee that the wheels are right, no guesswork
I had a train set when I was little, your videos got me back into the hobby. I currently have a small collection of 6 engines, and a small loop. My dad had bought me someone's old collection at auction years ago and I have more rolling stock than I know what to do with. For now it's not much but when I move my family to a new house will will be getting one with enough rooms to dedicate one to the hobby, I want a room my son an I can have to run the trains. He loves them and trys to crawl under my bed to grab them and he isn't even one yet.
Ahh that's great to hear John, ooh that's a nice situation - I struggled to build up rolling stock at the start! Hope all goes well for you mate! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@williambabcoke248 No, here in america engines are usually more than heavy enough to not need traction tires. There's literally a video of a Broadway Limited(all diecast, large engine, yet still has a tire) pulling over 7* BRICKS!! --------------------- While wheel slip is really bad for the engine, a burnt motor is worse. I agree 100% with sam, there is never a need for traction tires. If you engine cant pull that much, dont force it to. A 4-4-0 shouldnt be pulling the wallpaper off your walls!
Charles Li I have three of the Y6Bs you speak of, and heavy though they are, they won't move any twenty five red bricks without traction tires (sorry, Yankee spelling). With traction tires they might well do it, but not without. I do remember the promo video you speak of, and I'd have sworn it was only seven red bricks, although that was several years ago and I might be in error. I do, however, remember the promo for their die-cast metal 2-8-0 which hauled seven red bricks using traction tires. I recently bought one of those engines and can confirm that it can haul out of all proportion to its size when it's wearing its traction tires.
I retired to Thailand, built a large outbuilding for my model railway, There i discovered this channel and Sam has been very helpful with ideas, Unfortunately Brexit under Terresa may killed the pound each one suddendly went down by 45p in value so i am now back in the UK , However i do go back for 7 weeks each year and add to the layout .Rubber traction tyres are such a pain, so this video has answered my question do i need them, best regards Cheshire and Sisaket Thailand.
I've got to say I watch Sam's trains nearly everyday and I really love this chanel and how close you are with your fans, never have I seen something like this before! Amazing work and I really do hope for more O gauges and some experiments/ cheap trains in futare! Once again love from Poland!
I have no interest in model railways but love seeing the enthusiasm of a true aficionado working on their passion. The world would be a poorer place without devotees of specialist interests...
Since I haven't seen anybody else mention it, I will say that an inexpensive set of punches works the best for knocking crank pins, etc. in and out. You can hold it much easier than the piece Sam used, and they're longer, so you have more control, and can drive out longer pieces.
Hi Sam. Good video. I am similarly well versed in the (painful) task of quartering! Here's a wee tip for you. ...those railroad (ex tender drive) locos often have unnecessarily heavy tenders because the casting for the old ringfield tender drive motor will still be there! What you can do is dismantle the tender and cut away the main lump of the motor casting leaving just the bottom of the chassis for the wheels. You don't want to take out too much weight because the tender still needs good contact with the track for electrical pick up. This is another way on which you can improve the pulling power of this wonderful loco! Cheers. Lorenzo
Thanks very much - yes it's a nuisance isn't it? You're right about the tenders for sure - I've thought of trying that before, never attempted it though! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Well done Sam! I really think you’ve added flavour to the otherwise sterile 4-4-0s by giving them prototypical character. You can now wheelslip them up to speed and watch them slither to a halt rather dramatically if you wish. Adds a certain something to the driving experiences I’ve done all this before and the only issue seems to be the driving wheel rims polish up and loose grip over time and lots of wheelslip. I’ve acid etched these polished rims with Printed Circuit Board ferric chloride in the past but not sure I’d wholeheartedly recommend this material as it stains anything it touches if not promptly removed. Anyway - very well done indeed
Great video! I have been experiencing tyre deterioration first-hand after recently finding the space to unbox my old model railway that’s been in storage for almost 18 years. It’s painful to watch my favourite locos limping around. Despite what you say, I don’t think I have the skill to replace the wheels 😀 so I’ll replace the tyres for now and build up the courage to follow your tutorial in the future!
Sorry to hear that Jason - it's a nuisance isn't it?! :( I'm sure you could mate - but it's understandable if you're not confident! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I am in the process of motorizing a LEGO train, but I had to add the motor to the tender because the locomotive's wheel configuration was not compatible with the official LEGO train motor. Because the tender is so lightweight, the LEGO traction tires (in the form of rubber bands) are absolutely necessary.
Here in the USA, traction tires are often optional, so you can get a loco with them and ad the tires if you want, or just buy regular tires from the manufacturer. Just so you know Sam. Modelers Unite!
But if you buy logos from the UK you don't really get that option even though I live in the u.s. and by both locomotive types the option here in the US you don't get the option in the UK which sucks I kind of understand why
Since BLi stopped supplying traction tyres with new locos [average net cost USD1:20/loco] I've had to buy the replacement Non-Traction tyre wheel set for USD20 each PLUS USD30 for postage. Needless to say I don't buy BLi locos anymore. Traction tyres also destroy gear towers.
Here in America, the hills on some of our layouts have forced us to put traction tires on our locomotives. And yes, given a hill steep enough a locomotive with traction tyres will wheelslip
Just converted a County 4-4-0 to a County Tank and wanted the better pick up from wheels with no traction tyres. The methods described really boost the confidence when starting out on this, especially on the matter of quartering. I managed it ok, so thanks. A couple of small observations that you might have mentioned, but I didn't pick up on. The driven wheel has a lipped bearing that engages in a small slot on the chassis, but can drift inwards to the drive cog when reassembling if not careful and the rear of the driving wheels have a shaped pocket recess into which the coupling rod/ connecting rod spindle fits so as to prevent turning. I expect those with younger eyes will spot these facts straight away.
Wow Chris, that's really something - never tried it before, and succeeded first time. It's a horrible thing to attempt, but very satisfying once it works! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Had to send my TTS sound 4F back to Hornby a few weeks ago. Been sat on a shelf since I bought it and found when I came to run it on my layout (nearing completion) it had damn traction tyres and one was loose, my first experience of them. Managed to take the bottom off and re-fix it to the wheel but the loco was dead. Naff pick up problems. Sent it back to Hornby, expected to be charged as it was well out of warranty but they fixed it for free and free return postage. Nice one Hornby!
@@SamsTrains Mind you, having watched your video, what would the cost be when manufacturing to do what you did. New wheels and some weight. An extra £8 - £10.00 if that!!!!
Hi Sam, I think I mentioned this earlier. I did this to a Schools Class - UK's most powerful 4-4-0 - so which needs to have traction. I added weight, and it could pull 7 coaches on the level, but was VERY sensitive to anything - traction weight can be adjusted slightly by lightly bending the front bogie mounts - adding / reducing traction weight onto the drivers. Something you seem to have missed was swapping over the wheel centres - sometimes / often the 'large pin drivers' from where the piston rod mounts have a larger weight. Good job, as ever. I actually returned by Schools to traction-tyred spec, unfortunately, to ensure prototypical loads could be pulled and maintained. Al.
Lol, I choked on me cup of tea when I saw your hammer! I fix small engines & motorbikes. I have a very nice little ball peen hammer that would be just the shot for work at this size. It was cheap too, it was part of a riveting set I think was meant for scrap booking.
I have a hornby illustrious, I have had it since I was a child and I used to make crash scenes with it because I had 2. I found the battered crash model the other day and she still limps bravely along and pulls wagons well. She just bounces a lot because of the bent body and pistons
Yeah, nice job Sam on the wheelset change over. I think I would only do it once my tires degraded then replace them. Though for now, I haven't had to on my traction tires locos. At least I know what to do when I have too than not being able to run them. Thanks for a great little tutorial as usual and all the recent Live Steams I've missed but watched on a later date. Stay Home, Be Safe, and keep them trains running folks.
Hi Sam, going to do this to mine which is the pristine black 1072. I have an incline of 3% so it may have some trouble with it not being a heavy loco but I do have DCC Concepts Power Base plates under the track and will probably have to fit magnets under the loco. p.s. regarding the fiddly bit about putting the crank pins in at the end - I use a little 'magnetiser/demagnetiser' which I got from Aldi; it helps hold screws etc on the end of the driver and makes life so much less frustrating than keep dropping tiny screws or bolts etc, especially fat fingered people like me. Thanks a million, love your vids, simply the best.
I got an Airfix "Caerphilly Castle" in about 1981. Not only did the locomotive sound really odd, but the traction tyres made the tender wobble and twist. Not a good runner at all, but it looked really nice. I got a new old stock (unboxed) Hornby "Flying Scotsman" at the same time, the old 1970's locomotive powered one, which didn't look so great but far exceeded the Airfix locomotive in performance.
Wow, you and leokimvideo are really different! He loves traction tyres! Thank you Sir Sam The Third for ridding the attic of the evil traction tyres! Great Video! -Dj
Much more authentic, well worth doing. Does adding another engine help to get up the hill? I suppose adding too much weight starts to counteract that authenticity. Thanks for sharing.
Hey, Sam, for steam locomotives, this is excellent - added realism to the actual; for diesel/electrics, not sure that it would be any more beneficial - there's nothing to demonstrate in terms of running gear (because it's invisible). Many of the locos my son & I have are pre-traction tyre models, so this is not an issue, & from your tutorial, it should not be the most difficult of procedures (apart from the fiddly gear alignment). Superb video - Thank you very much !! :D
I have a Hornby 2P, loco drive, which had traction tyres on one of the two sets of driving wheels. The traction tyres would consistently remove themselves when going round 2nd radius curves, even though the loco is specified as suitable for them. So I removed them and tried the loco. It worked. I have DCC, so shorting might have been a problem, and 22 points of all shapes and sizes in over 100 feet of track. Not once in 3 years has the loco either derailed or shorted out. The downside as you say is traction. It will pull only 3 coaches on level track. Mainly I think because I have graphited the track which is slippery as a result. And the loco only struggles on some curves and nowhere else. I imagine that rewheeling will give a small traction advantage but not a lot. The bad news is that there is hardly any room inside the loco body for extra weight.
Great video Sam. Just goes to show that with a few everyday tools (in the model industry) you can easily make a loco run much better. Very realistic too, because in real life situations alike Gordon's Hill, the fireman would have to make sure there was enough steam for the driver to use in order to get up the hill 👍. Stay safe mate, GWR
Very good young Sam, excellent instruction. A pity this option wasn't available years ago when I was doing 00 gauge. As mentioned in a comment I made yesterday I model in N gauge now. I did ask if you ever reviewed N gauge products or not. Thanks for the time it takes you to make these videos which I have been following for some time now. Take care and stay safe, Jon Barnes.
I want to personally thank you for attending and mentioning this BIG little problem !!!! Because you deal with hornby over there with traction tires but, did you know United States is gone bonkers putting traction tires on a lot of the local manufactures like Bachmann for example, has been known to do that ! But the one that hurts the most is (“Lionel trains”), as heavy as they are even if they start using plastic shells there is no need no requirement for Lionel engine to have a traction tire ! Go back to Magna-Traction !!! 🌊🐺
Sam'sTrains Sam, I wish they would ! Atrena blue box and the, Atlas “at least some that I know of like Bachmann, Riverossi, A.H.M. And others ! (Lionel Trains, invented magnet traction) we just recently found out that it can be applied to “O” gauge trains as well as “HO” and “N” ! Both companies refuse to do it because there’s more money in replacing the rubber tires and contracting there is and just making at least four of the eight wheels of the locomotive diesel, let’s say, magna- traction ! What is the answer and still is the answer ! I’m very particular about Trainz I run my layout so I make sure that I reserve list amounts of rubber tired local monitors under that I can ! Jorge🌊🐺
I recently started to run a Hornby Flying Scot (older version with traction tyres), and ran them on Peco bull head rail(code 75). The tyres seem to be pealed off by the thinner rails. Even when i renewed the tyres, the new ones were being pealed off on the bends!
There’s a lot of differences in opinion regarding tyres or not, but I think usually the locos which have them, have then for a reason and I’d rather forgo realistic wheel slip for pulling power. With tyres the loco in question, would manage a more realistic quantity of carriages but you loose out on the slip when starting the train, however, I’d rather the more realistic train than having to couple it to a shorter local train of two or three carriages which is about all it’ll handle without tyres. It’s a tough one. Great video and hope you and your family are keeping safe and well in all this madness which is unfolding around us.
This man knows exactly what he’s talking about ! I have a Lionel Steam heavy Pacific 4-6-2 That not only am I removing traction tires off of it but there’s one of the wheels and the rear that’s busted so I got a replace it as well !!! I’ll get two jobs done at the same time ! 🌊🐺
If the wheels do not have pickups could you coat them with some kind of rubber to give them grip without tires? I know the wheels are normally grooved for the tires but could you fill the grooves in with body putty?
Traction tyres are essential on most N scale steam locomotives. All but the heaviest are still too light to be able to pull a realistic load without them. I've even made tyres from double-sided sticky tape for a Dapol 9F and Walthers Berkshire because they could barely get around a loop without slipping in the curves. Some diesels and electrics have them too but for the most part they aren't necessary. There are a few locos that have spare wheelsets without traction tyres which is nice.
I’ve had great success with the NMRA Ho mark 4b gauge (think it’s also called a NMRA 98-1?) for gauging my wheel sets. In my model railway club we use those since it’s rather easy to judge the gauge of the wheel and line it up/sometimes the original wheels could be out of gauge right out the box. Though it is just another specialized too but to me the hardest part of reassembling the axels is gauge.
Next step ... motor upgrade (with flywheel if possible). If I was fettling that loco, I'd also be thinking about adding to the mass with some lead weights, give it some proper heft. 5 pole skew wound motor, nice brass flywheel, bump that 4-4-0 up to 500 grams and hey presto, that should give it the pulling power it deserves! Though given what some are charging for locos these days (snarls at Mike Ashley for turning Hornby into his personal ATM), we should be enjoying 1,000 gram 9Fs and 800 gram Pacifics with 2 newton motors for the prices in question ...
One of the traction tyres fell off my Athearn Challenger locomotive, and has pretty well crippled it. It now shorts out on that ridged wheel on most point frogs that I had in service on my old layout. Being a 4-6-6-4 it’s got plenty of pickups, so hopefully, one day, I’ll be able to just replace the missing traction tyre, and move on. Traction tyres are a pain, but they are cheap and easy to get hold of, so it’s not the end of the world if they go bad. After watching this, I’m kind of tempted to get rid of the traction tyres on my power line NSW 48’class loco, add some weight, and extra pickups, and see how it goes. It’s been out of service for a long time, and it’d be great to bring it back.
I agree with you on traction tires (tyres) . US manufacturers use them a great deal on steam but they are rare on diesels. I keep a full supply on hand as changing wheel sets is not practical on most of my steam locos.
Great video sam. Thank you for the information on traction tyers. It's very interesting to hear about how the different pieces of the locomotive can not be very good for the locomotive. Take care
I would also recommend use of a back to back gauge, which are fairly cheap. For weights, I use the self adhesive tyre balancing weights commonly used in tyre replacement depots. You can cut and shape the weights very easily and they will adhere very well.
It seems that they are a lot of people who do not like Traction Tyres. I have the same class of Loco and I think I will order a replacement set of wheels for it. Many Thanks. martin (Thailand)
Nice video as usual ;-) I’ve seen that traction tyres are mainly not used in the USA and in the UK but for the normal European locos, you won’t find a loco without them in HO scale ( only exception the very expensive brass models ), as in Europe we love the very hilly lines ( Gothard, Lötschberg, Semmering, Brenner,... ) we need the tractions tyres for pulling long trains on steep grades, some layouts can have a 5-6 % incline ! In HOm scale, we don’t use traction’s tyres but we use as in real life a rack railway to go uphill with inclinés which can go to 15% !
I enjoyed that! I, too, hate traction tyres. I never thought of taking the route that you demonstrate in you video, thank you for sharing the idea. For me, it is a deciding factor when considering which locomotive to buy or not.
Sam , I found that searching one Hattons(R845-PO10 Hornby Class A3 4-6-2 4472 'Flying Scotsman' in LNER Green - Pre-owned - sold as seen - Noisy and Wobbly runner OO Gauge (1:76 Scale) £30)
Hammers and wheelslips. I can see a Samstrains and Hoonigan collab coming up 😉 This was a really good tutorial Sam, I hope you and your family are well!
Yep love it, you have given me the push start I needed to swap out the one locomotive I have with horible traction tyers, my beautiful T9. Wheel set ordered and for less then £5 I'm smiling 😀. Great video, thanks Sam
Might have to give this one a go at some point. I bought a second-hand 14xx class a couple of months back and one of the traction tyres just slipped off after a few minutes of running. I'd just left it off, hadn't noticed any performance issues but I suppose it's better to replace the set rather than just leave it
i got agree with you with Peter's spares they do seem t to up price products I'm currently trying to find parts for my bachmann B1 Ourebi bearings and piston block/ valve gear mine broke through age
Once I had a new (ish) Hornby 14XX (all wheel pick up) and it had traction tires on one set of driving wheels which effected the performance by a lot. So I took the traction tyres off and it runs a lot better
Sam..... Anyone who LIKES Traction Tyres, *AREN'T REAL HOBBYISTS!!!* 😲 Hate to sound the Snob, but there it is. If I may add #4 - They cause the Loco to WOBBLE down the Track more often than not. You've done your Railroad quite a service!! 😎👌👏👏👏👏👏 Please stay SAFE! 😷 Carmine ✈🚂🚙
Being used to Märklin this is actually quite interesting to me, as all their models have them. Presumably this is mainly due to the centre pickup, which would add some friction. However the locos are generally really heavy and well-built with powerful motors. So when you've got a modern electric engine (which have all axles driven and one traction tire per axle) you can pull ridiculously long trains, 30 modern metal-framed 4-axle freight cars are no issue. I've also not noticed any real degrading yet, even with one 16-year old loco where the services consisted of oiling and cleaning the visible gears every five years.
Thanks for sharing, that's very interesting actually - almost all British models have done away with the rubber tyres now, in place of higher quality heavier models. Very surprised that Marklin hasn't done the same?! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Thanks for your reply, it seems like the UK and German market have different expectations, as even the most expensive models here will have several traction tires. Sadly this does mean that we miss out on wheelspin, however even very small locomotives are then able to reliably pull long trains up inclines. Manufacturers generally make sure that the motors are strong enough to break traction even with several traction tires, and both my father and me have never had a single motor burn out in over 20 years. From watching your channel I've gathered several key differences between UK and German manufacturers; for instance sprung buffers in H0 scale are unheard of here, whilst more or less every locomotive sold here since the mid-2000s has a DCC decoder and several functions, with non-entry models having sounds as standard. Prices are also a lot higher, with what's considered to be a basic (but still realistically detailed) entry-level electric or diesel locomotive from Märklin coming in at over 120£, and some H0 locomotives costing as much as 500£. Level of detail is usually comparable, but aside from fitted details locomotives are generally all-metal construction. This year Märklin is releasing a Class 66 in several different versions, with a DC spec under the Trix brand. It might be worth checking out and comparing to Hornby, from having seen early models it appears to have four axles driven, with all of them having traction tires. It is rather expensive though.
Just watched it, really good vid. There are some RTR loco's in need of this treatment and I've always been a bit aprehensive of how to change the wheels, plus older engines needing finer flanges. I took some traction tyres off older Hornby loco's as they kept causing stalling by not being flat. They run better now although a few have a bit of a waddle. Yeah I agree, tyres are an abomination, especially today; bloody hate 'em.
In the States, some manufacturers had a separate axle without tires on it because the model had the axle with them on by default. Sadly most of them now only have the tire axle in the box and no extra axle. MTH and Rapido provide the bare wheel axle where Broadway Limited used to offer it but don’t anymore. Personally I prefer them because some Bachmann locos can’t pull a thing, my Berkshire can’t pull more than 10 cars and my GS-4 same deal, my Niagara however can pull about 20 cars.... just the chassis was better on them. Point being, some prefer them or some don’t. I’m going thankfull for them on many occasions.
Hey, I have something for you to consider. On hattons there is a train pack called The Lyme Regis Branch Line. It has a hornby adams radial and 2 súper detailed hornby suburban coaches for £149. I thought it would be up your ally as the locomotive is usually worth that much and the coaches are usually £50 each. Just something to consider. ( R3398 )
I have a tender drive D49 which has traction tyres. When I bought it second hand, I removed them, and the loco could barely pull anything without crawling to a stop. When I recently put the ‘em back on, the loco performed so much better. Strong, faster, and even smoother running.
When I took my OO locomotives from storage after about 30 years, I found that some were okay, while others were not. Only two of the stored machines were intended for the new layout, a Hornby Hall with "Magnahesion" from the 1970s and an Airfix 1400 with tyres. The tyres had gone egg shaped. I looked on several forums and all said ditch the tyres. I did. There's a bit of spin when starting, but general running is much better. I take the things off all locomotives as I buy them now. One problem I have encountered though is a Mainline Dean Goods 0-6-0, with tender drive, plastic driven wheels with tyres and pickups only on the loco. I bought it used. It looks good but doesn't run at all without the traction tyres - I've just put it in a siding!
Ahh yes - the 14xx is known for the tyres going bad - I have thought of trying this with a 14xx some day, it might need replacement wheels without ridges though! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
To be fair the D49s and many other 4-4-0s were fairly weak locos anyway, so if they can't handle bigger loads if anything it's more realistic! Good job Sam!
As to disposal of excess wheels, axels & bearing pieces, use them to fill your roundhouse (UK-EU engine house) Or a local SCRAP yard or gondola No waste, no cost.
To supplement your argument of tire deterioration, a lot of wheels that have them aren't insulated so when they go down enough you're going to get a short circuit. Broadway Limited locos are notorious for this but they insist on putting them on unless you buy it from them specifically telling them to replace them with proper wheels.
Hi Sam. Love the videos. Have you Tried bullfrog snot. Cut off the old traction tire. Power the wheels. Paint on the bullfrog snot. Let it dry. And you have a new traction tire. Avoids wheel changing. Worth a review?
As you mentioned the Southern V - Schools class - in fact it is not possible, to change the wheels without changing the look of the engine. Just have a look at the counterweights - the size of them is different! And although many of my Roco engines have traction tires, I have never had problems with motors which ran hot.
Yes that's very true - they do look a bit different, though it doesn't affect the performance in any way! It's a compromise unfortunately, like many things! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam, you can remove or decrease the spring length on the leading bogie to increase the pulling ability. You just need to make sure the centre of gravity is between the driving wheels.
The traction tyres had disintegrated on my Dapol Pendolino. Funny thing is it worked okay without the traction tyres, but I had to fit replacement traction tyres. Didn't I? Then guess what? With the brand new traction tyres, the thing had such rapid acceleration that it broke the driveshaft! And now a replacement is unobtainable! According to the man in the model shop, Hornby still fit traction tyres because a lot of their customers have still got those traditional train set layouts with steep gradients.
Hi Sam, great video! Buying new wheelsets could end up getting expensive, so if I ever need to replace any traction tires I will get a pot of Bullfrog Snot! It is around £30, but something that in my opinion offers better value for money. Perhaps you could do a review for it?
That's nice of Hornby to make a wheel set for a Hornby Railroad locomotive that has traction tires. If someone doesn't like the traction tires (which would be you obviously), then this would be a great opportunity to get the set of wheels for that exact locomotive to get rid of the traction tires. They might as well follow this tutorial video too! :P
Hi Sam, great video and idea, Hornby's otherwise lovely Schools is brought down by traction tyres and I never understood why! often I have wondered if there is a tight metal band that could be forced onto the wheels, filling the groove and giving a metal tread. The oddest one of all is V'itrains class 37 that has huge weight but still has traction tyres????
Thanks a lot Mike - yes I'd love if a band could be applied like that... a heat-shrink band? You're right about the 37... totally unnecessary! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Just wondering, have you heard of a product called Bullfrog Snot? It's a liquid you apply to the grooves left by traction tyres, which dries into a robust plastic. I've used it on one of my locos to replace traction tires, and it hasn't failed me yet. I applied it a few years ago.
Yeah I've heard of that - to me it still has most of the disadvantages of traction tyres though, so I prefer weighty models! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)
i feel the same about tender driven locos they dont run realistically. good video and i would prefer less pulling power for a better all around look to a locos running performance.
Just had the thought... What would you do about tender driven locos? like 90% of the Hornby Thomas models? they have traction tires but they're practically essential to pulling
I wouldn't really recommend that - there's not much space to add extra weight to those tenders, though swapping the wheels would be easy enough, depending on availability! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
This job can be a bit of a pain at times because not only do you have to take out the wheel that has the traction tire, but you also have to swap both of the wheels from the wheel set to get it in the right position that the original wheel was in.
Great Vid Sam My Hornby And Lima Class 47 have traction tyres im not a big fan of them either seems like to much work to remove them though lol thanks for the vid sam
Hi Sam. Great video. I had no idea about quartering and still do not understand the theory behind it (other than the loco wouldn't work!). I'm sure that like me there are many who would not have noticed the offset while dismantling the traction-tyred wheelset.
It's done on real locos so that the engine never stops with all crankpins on dead centres, which would mean it would be unable to move (unless "barred" into a starting position by men with long poles).
To those who are doing this for the first time, Id highly recommend taking a picture of the crankpin area before disassembling...those washers/spacers and rod order is very important! A picture takes 2 seconds to take, and will save you lots of trouble in the long run!
Yes indeed - I strongly recommend that too, I was careful to stress that!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Thanks Sam for the inspiration and giving me the confidence to purge traction tyres and put a plain wheelset (3 quid) on my Hornby 14XX (R2381, circa 2004). it now runs great, especially slow speed over points, no more stalling!
Sam, get a gauge block, They come from ebay or Gaugemaster, made from brass, they slip between the wheels and guarantee that the wheels are right, no guesswork
I would like that - thanks for the tip Mark! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Second commenter!
I had a train set when I was little, your videos got me back into the hobby. I currently have a small collection of 6 engines, and a small loop. My dad had bought me someone's old collection at auction years ago and I have more rolling stock than I know what to do with.
For now it's not much but when I move my family to a new house will will be getting one with enough rooms to dedicate one to the hobby, I want a room my son an I can have to run the trains. He loves them and trys to crawl under my bed to grab them and he isn't even one yet.
Ahh that's great to hear John, ooh that's a nice situation - I struggled to build up rolling stock at the start! Hope all goes well for you mate! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I just love your enthusiasm, knowledge and clear explanations. I really must get all my 1970s Hornby stuff out of the attic.
You're very kind Neil - if you do, all the best with it - have fun! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
"darn you bachmann for not having traction tires!"
this didnt age too well lol
haha - for everything Bachmann do, I must say they don't use traction tyres! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Here in America that is a bad thing. Our layouts usually have hills, which is the enemy of locomotives without traction tyres.
@@SamsTrains good view, but I still like em.
@@williambabcoke248 No, here in america engines are usually more than heavy enough to not need traction tires. There's literally a video of a Broadway Limited(all diecast, large engine, yet still has a tire) pulling over 7* BRICKS!!
---------------------
While wheel slip is really bad for the engine, a burnt motor is worse. I agree 100% with sam, there is never a need for traction tires. If you engine cant pull that much, dont force it to. A 4-4-0 shouldnt be pulling the wallpaper off your walls!
Charles Li I have three of the Y6Bs you speak of, and heavy though they are, they won't move any twenty five red bricks without traction tires (sorry, Yankee spelling). With traction tires they might well do it, but not without.
I do remember the promo video you speak of, and I'd have sworn it was only seven red bricks, although that was several years ago and I might be in error.
I do, however, remember the promo for their die-cast metal 2-8-0 which hauled seven red bricks using traction tires. I recently bought one of those engines and can confirm that it can haul out of all proportion to its size when it's wearing its traction tires.
I retired to Thailand, built a large outbuilding for my model railway, There i discovered this channel and Sam has been very helpful with ideas, Unfortunately Brexit under Terresa may killed the pound each one suddendly went down by 45p in value so i am now back in the UK , However i do go back for 7 weeks each year and add to the layout .Rubber traction tyres are such a pain, so this video has answered my question do i need them, best regards Cheshire and Sisaket Thailand.
I've got to say I watch Sam's trains nearly everyday and I really love this chanel and how close you are with your fans, never have I seen something like this before! Amazing work and I really do hope for more O gauges and some experiments/ cheap trains in futare! Once again love from Poland!
That's lovely to hear - thanks very much! Ooh yes - looking forward to doing more O gauge too! :D
Cheers,
Sam :)
I have no interest in model railways but love seeing the enthusiasm of a true aficionado working on their passion. The world would be a poorer place without devotees of specialist interests...
You're very kind Geoff, many thanks for this! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Since I haven't seen anybody else mention it, I will say that an inexpensive set of punches works the best for knocking crank pins, etc. in and out. You can hold it much easier than the piece Sam used, and they're longer, so you have more control, and can drive out longer pieces.
Hi Sam. Good video. I am similarly well versed in the (painful) task of quartering! Here's a wee tip for you. ...those railroad (ex tender drive) locos often have unnecessarily heavy tenders because the casting for the old ringfield tender drive motor will still be there! What you can do is dismantle the tender and cut away the main lump of the motor casting leaving just the bottom of the chassis for the wheels. You don't want to take out too much weight because the tender still needs good contact with the track for electrical pick up. This is another way on which you can improve the pulling power of this wonderful loco! Cheers. Lorenzo
Thanks very much - yes it's a nuisance isn't it? You're right about the tenders for sure - I've thought of trying that before, never attempted it though!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Well done Sam! I really think you’ve added flavour to the otherwise sterile 4-4-0s by giving them prototypical character. You can now wheelslip them up to speed and watch them slither to a halt rather dramatically if you wish. Adds a certain something to the driving experiences I’ve done all this before and the only issue seems to be the driving wheel rims polish up and loose grip over time and lots of wheelslip. I’ve acid etched these polished rims with Printed Circuit Board ferric chloride in the past but not sure I’d wholeheartedly recommend this material as it stains anything it touches if not promptly removed. Anyway - very well done indeed
Thanks very much, that's lovely to hear - I really enjoy running these now, having made that change!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Great video! I have been experiencing tyre deterioration first-hand after recently finding the space to unbox my old model railway that’s been in storage for almost 18 years. It’s painful to watch my favourite locos limping around.
Despite what you say, I don’t think I have the skill to replace the wheels 😀 so I’ll replace the tyres for now and build up the courage to follow your tutorial in the future!
Sorry to hear that Jason - it's a nuisance isn't it?! :(
I'm sure you could mate - but it's understandable if you're not confident!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I am in the process of motorizing a LEGO train, but I had to add the motor to the tender because the locomotive's wheel configuration was not compatible with the official LEGO train motor. Because the tender is so lightweight, the LEGO traction tires (in the form of rubber bands) are absolutely necessary.
Here in the USA, traction tires are often optional, so you can get a loco with them and ad the tires if you want, or just buy regular tires from the manufacturer.
Just so you know Sam.
Modelers Unite!
But if you buy logos from the UK you don't really get that option even though I live in the u.s. and by both locomotive types the option here in the US you don't get the option in the UK which sucks I kind of understand why
I'd love if ours were optional - that'd safe so much faff!! :O
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Since BLi stopped supplying traction tyres with new locos [average net cost USD1:20/loco] I've had to buy the replacement Non-Traction tyre wheel set for USD20 each PLUS USD30 for postage. Needless to say I don't buy BLi locos anymore. Traction tyres also destroy gear towers.
Here in America, the hills on some of our layouts have forced us to put traction tires on our locomotives. And yes, given a hill steep enough a locomotive with traction tyres will wheelslip
Ahh that's fair enough then, on steep layouts!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Just converted a County 4-4-0 to a County Tank and wanted the better pick up from wheels with no traction tyres. The methods described really boost the confidence when starting out on this, especially on the matter of quartering. I managed it ok, so thanks. A couple of small observations that you might have mentioned, but I didn't pick up on. The driven wheel has a lipped bearing that engages in a small slot on the chassis, but can drift inwards to the drive cog when reassembling if not careful and the rear of the driving wheels have a shaped pocket recess into which the coupling rod/ connecting rod spindle fits so as to prevent turning. I expect those with younger eyes will spot these facts straight away.
Wow Chris, that's really something - never tried it before, and succeeded first time. It's a horrible thing to attempt, but very satisfying once it works!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Had to send my TTS sound 4F back to Hornby a few weeks ago. Been sat on a shelf since I bought it and found when I came to run it on my layout (nearing completion) it had damn traction tyres and one was loose, my first experience of them. Managed to take the bottom off and re-fix it to the wheel but the loco was dead. Naff pick up problems. Sent it back to Hornby, expected to be charged as it was well out of warranty but they fixed it for free and free return postage. Nice one Hornby!
Sorry to hear that - but good on Hornby - that's the kind of service everyone's looking for! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Mind you, having watched your video, what would the cost be when manufacturing to do what you did. New wheels and some weight. An extra £8 - £10.00 if that!!!!
2:25 My pair of old intercity scream at me. No idea why
Hi Sam, I think I mentioned this earlier. I did this to a Schools Class - UK's most powerful 4-4-0 - so which needs to have traction.
I added weight, and it could pull 7 coaches on the level, but was VERY sensitive to anything - traction weight can be adjusted slightly by lightly bending the front bogie mounts - adding / reducing traction weight onto the drivers.
Something you seem to have missed was swapping over the wheel centres - sometimes / often the 'large pin drivers' from where the piston rod mounts have a larger weight.
Good job, as ever.
I actually returned by Schools to traction-tyred spec, unfortunately, to ensure prototypical loads could be pulled and maintained.
Al.
Thanks a lot for the heads up Alan - I might try this with a Schools one day too! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Lol, I choked on me cup of tea when I saw your hammer! I fix small engines & motorbikes. I have a very nice little ball peen hammer that would be just the shot for work at this size. It was cheap too, it was part of a riveting set I think was meant for scrap booking.
I have a hornby illustrious, I have had it since I was a child and I used to make crash scenes with it because I had 2. I found the battered crash model the other day and she still limps bravely along and pulls wagons well. She just bounces a lot because of the bent body and pistons
haha fantastic - I'm surprised but glad to hear she still works! :O
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Yeah, nice job Sam on the wheelset change over. I think I would only do it once my tires degraded then replace them. Though for now, I haven't had to on my traction tires locos. At least I know what to do when I have too than not being able to run them. Thanks for a great little tutorial as usual and all the recent Live Steams I've missed but watched on a later date. Stay Home, Be Safe, and keep them trains running folks.
Thanks very much John - yes that makes sense - but it's worth it if you don't like the tyres!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam, going to do this to mine which is the pristine black 1072. I have an incline of 3% so it may have some trouble with it not being a heavy loco but I do have DCC Concepts Power Base plates under the track and will probably have to fit magnets under the loco. p.s. regarding the fiddly bit about putting the crank pins in at the end - I use a little 'magnetiser/demagnetiser' which I got from Aldi; it helps hold screws etc on the end of the driver and makes life so much less frustrating than keep dropping tiny screws or bolts etc, especially fat fingered people like me. Thanks a million, love your vids, simply the best.
I got an Airfix "Caerphilly Castle" in about 1981. Not only did the locomotive sound really odd, but the traction tyres made the tender wobble and twist. Not a good runner at all, but it looked really nice. I got a new old stock (unboxed) Hornby "Flying Scotsman" at the same time, the old 1970's locomotive powered one, which didn't look so great but far exceeded the Airfix locomotive in performance.
Ahh very interesting - I've never experienced one of those, will have to look it up! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Nice video keep up the amazing work you are the best . I love a little wheel slip for realism
Thanks very much Michael - me too! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Wow, you and leokimvideo are really different! He loves traction tyres!
Thank you Sir Sam The Third for ridding the attic of the evil traction tyres!
Great Video!
-Dj
haha that's fair enough - they have their value - but with as many locos as I have, they get frustrating quickly ;)
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Much more authentic, well worth doing. Does adding another engine help to get up the hill? I suppose adding too much weight starts to counteract that authenticity. Thanks for sharing.
Hey, Sam, for steam locomotives, this is excellent - added realism to the actual; for diesel/electrics, not sure that it would be any more beneficial - there's nothing to demonstrate in terms of running gear (because it's invisible). Many of the locos my son & I have are pre-traction tyre models, so this is not an issue, & from your tutorial, it should not be the most difficult of procedures (apart from the fiddly gear alignment). Superb video - Thank you very much !! :D
Thanks very much Andrew! Yes it wouldn't be quite so great with diesels!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I have a Hornby 2P, loco drive, which had traction tyres on one of the two sets of driving wheels. The traction tyres would consistently remove themselves when going round 2nd radius curves, even though the loco is specified as suitable for them. So I removed them and tried the loco. It worked. I have DCC, so shorting might have been a problem, and 22 points of all shapes and sizes in over 100 feet of track. Not once in 3 years has the loco either derailed or shorted out. The downside as you say is traction. It will pull only 3 coaches on level track. Mainly I think because I have graphited the track which is slippery as a result. And the loco only struggles on some curves and nowhere else. I imagine that rewheeling will give a small traction advantage but not a lot. The bad news is that there is hardly any room inside the loco body for extra weight.
The traction tyres work well on my 2 4-4-9s and will be replaced when needed, Five coaches easily handled, I love these lococs.
Great video Sam. Just goes to show that with a few everyday tools (in the model industry) you can easily make a loco run much better. Very realistic too, because in real life situations alike Gordon's Hill, the fireman would have to make sure there was enough steam for the driver to use in order to get up the hill 👍. Stay safe mate, GWR
Thanks a lot mate - yeah you're right - this was definitely well worth doing in my opinion! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Very good young Sam, excellent instruction. A pity this option wasn't available years ago when I was doing 00 gauge. As mentioned in a comment I made yesterday I model in N gauge now. I did ask if you ever reviewed N gauge products or not. Thanks for the time it takes you to make these videos which I have been following for some time now.
Take care and stay safe, Jon Barnes.
Thanks very much Jonathan - ahh yes I remember! No problem at all, I love making them!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The traction tyres on my King Charles ll has hardened and i removed them and she runs better and can pull more
Yeah definitely - that does happen with some tyres!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Nice
Hi Sam, Nice Job , will be round with mine later , Thanks will give it a go , All the Best Brian 🤗
Thanks a lot Brian - good luck mate, take it easy! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Excellent tutorial Sam. Traction tyres have been a nuisance going back to the Hornby Doublo 3-rail days! Many thanks for the video.
Thanks a lot Mike - glad you think so too, haha!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi sam just wan to tell you that is very nice of you to respond to almost all coments and it makes my day better...😁
Not at all mate - very glad to do it! :D
Cheers,
Sam :)
Oh gosh Sam is doing the purge. The great traction tire purge of 2020!
haha!! xD
I want to personally thank you for attending and mentioning this BIG little problem !!!! Because you deal with hornby over there with traction tires but, did you know United States is gone bonkers putting traction tires on a lot of the local manufactures like Bachmann for example, has been known to do that ! But the one that hurts the most is (“Lionel trains”), as heavy as they are even if they start using plastic shells there is no need no requirement for Lionel engine to have a traction tire ! Go back to Magna-Traction !!! 🌊🐺
Oh are they really? I thought the tyres were going out of fashion!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam'sTrains Sam, I wish they would ! Atrena blue box and the, Atlas “at least some that I know of like Bachmann, Riverossi, A.H.M.
And others ! (Lionel Trains, invented magnet traction) we just recently found out that it can be applied to “O” gauge trains as well as “HO” and “N” ! Both companies refuse to do it because there’s more money in replacing the rubber tires and contracting there is and just making at least four of the eight wheels of the locomotive diesel, let’s say, magna- traction ! What is the answer and still is the answer ! I’m very particular about Trainz I run my layout so I make sure that I reserve list amounts of rubber tired local monitors under that I can ! Jorge🌊🐺
I recently started to run a Hornby Flying Scot (older version with traction tyres), and ran them on Peco bull head rail(code 75). The tyres seem to be pealed off by the thinner rails. Even when i renewed the tyres, the new ones were being pealed off on the bends!
Ahh really? That's very interesting actually - I'd like to do some testing around that!!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
There’s a lot of differences in opinion regarding tyres or not, but I think usually the locos which have them, have then for a reason and I’d rather forgo realistic wheel slip for pulling power. With tyres the loco in question, would manage a more realistic quantity of carriages but you loose out on the slip when starting the train, however, I’d rather the more realistic train than having to couple it to a shorter local train of two or three carriages which is about all it’ll handle without tyres. It’s a tough one. Great video and hope you and your family are keeping safe and well in all this madness which is unfolding around us.
Yes you're right Chris - occasionally I'll admit that the use of tyres is reasonable... but not often!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam: Easy way to get rid of traction tyres, replace the wheels with traction tyreless wheels
Hornby Single Wheelers: Ummmmm
haha yes - not so easy with the single wheelers! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
This man knows exactly what he’s talking about ! I have a Lionel Steam heavy Pacific
4-6-2 That not only am I removing traction tires off of it but there’s one of the wheels and the rear that’s busted so I got a replace it as well !!! I’ll get two jobs done at the same time ! 🌊🐺
If the wheels do not have pickups could you coat them with some kind of rubber to give them grip without tires? I know the wheels are normally grooved for the tires but could you fill the grooves in with body putty?
@@jimflagg4009 there is a product called Bullfrog Snot which is designed to do what you suggested
Fill with solder, put on a lathe with sandpaper. Simples.
Traction tyres are essential on most N scale steam locomotives. All but the heaviest are still too light to be able to pull a realistic load without them. I've even made tyres from double-sided sticky tape for a Dapol 9F and Walthers Berkshire because they could barely get around a loop without slipping in the curves. Some diesels and electrics have them too but for the most part they aren't necessary. There are a few locos that have spare wheelsets without traction tyres which is nice.
Ahh I can imagine that - they're more reasonable in N scale!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I’ve had great success with the NMRA Ho mark 4b gauge (think it’s also called a NMRA 98-1?) for gauging my wheel sets. In my model railway club we use those since it’s rather easy to judge the gauge of the wheel and line it up/sometimes the original wheels could be out of gauge right out the box. Though it is just another specialized too but to me the hardest part of reassembling the axels is gauge.
Many thanks for this - I'll have to get one - I bought the wrong size when I tried to get one! xD
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Next step ... motor upgrade (with flywheel if possible).
If I was fettling that loco, I'd also be thinking about adding to the mass with some lead weights, give it some proper heft. 5 pole skew wound motor, nice brass flywheel, bump that 4-4-0 up to 500 grams and hey presto, that should give it the pulling power it deserves!
Though given what some are charging for locos these days (snarls at Mike Ashley for turning Hornby into his personal ATM), we should be enjoying 1,000 gram 9Fs and 800 gram Pacifics with 2 newton motors for the prices in question ...
Now that I watched the show, very interesting, exercise in Traction adhesion and pulling the four coaches
One of the traction tyres fell off my Athearn Challenger locomotive, and has pretty well crippled it. It now shorts out on that ridged wheel on most point frogs that I had in service on my old layout. Being a 4-6-6-4 it’s got plenty of pickups, so hopefully, one day, I’ll be able to just replace the missing traction tyre, and move on. Traction tyres are a pain, but they are cheap and easy to get hold of, so it’s not the end of the world if they go bad. After watching this, I’m kind of tempted to get rid of the traction tyres on my power line NSW 48’class loco, add some weight, and extra pickups, and see how it goes. It’s been out of service for a long time, and it’d be great to bring it back.
Sorry to hear that Stephen - yes I've had it happen to me too - such a nuisance! Good luck if you decide to fix it! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Very informative as usual....great showing and close up how do the jobs correctly...
I agree with you on traction tires (tyres) . US manufacturers use them a great deal on steam but they are rare on diesels. I keep a full supply on hand as changing wheel sets is not practical on most of my steam locos.
Thanks Ken - they certainly do - I've never understood why, since some of them are really heavy anyway!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Great video sam. Thank you for the information on traction tyers. It's very interesting to hear about how the different pieces of the locomotive can not be very good for the locomotive. Take care
It's a pleasure Luke, glad you found it interesting! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I would also recommend use of a back to back gauge, which are fairly cheap. For weights, I use the self adhesive tyre balancing weights commonly used in tyre replacement depots. You can cut and shape the weights very easily and they will adhere very well.
Yes you're right - I have one, but it's not right - I need to get a more acurrate one!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
It seems that they are a lot of people who do not like Traction Tyres. I have the same class of Loco and I think I will order a replacement set of wheels for it. Many Thanks. martin (Thailand)
Good luck Martin - take it steady if you do! ;D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Nice video. Barrie Davis has done something similar with his 4-4-0s and 0-6-0 Hornby 4Fs.
Ahh is that so?? I saw his 4F video this morning!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Nice video as usual ;-)
I’ve seen that traction tyres are mainly not used in the USA and in the UK but for the normal European locos, you won’t find a loco without them in HO scale ( only exception the very expensive brass models ), as in Europe we love the very hilly lines ( Gothard, Lötschberg, Semmering, Brenner,... ) we need the tractions tyres for pulling long trains on steep grades, some layouts can have a 5-6 % incline ! In HOm scale, we don’t use traction’s tyres but we use as in real life a rack railway to go uphill with inclinés which can go to 15% !
Thanks very much! Yes they do seem quite common on European locos - every one I've had has got them!! :O
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I enjoyed that! I, too, hate traction tyres. I never thought of taking the route that you demonstrate in you video, thank you for sharing the idea. For me, it is a deciding factor when considering which locomotive to buy or not.
Thanks Drew - it's a pleasure - it's there if you need it! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam , I found that searching one Hattons(R845-PO10
Hornby
Class A3 4-6-2 4472 'Flying Scotsman' in LNER Green - Pre-owned - sold as seen - Noisy and Wobbly runner
OO Gauge (1:76 Scale)
£30)
Ahh okay! If it's wobbly though, that might not be too good!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains ok, so the last flying scotsman I talk to You was better.¿no?
Amazing tutorial video you made today Sam! And keep up the good work
Great to hear that - thank you! :D
Hammers and wheelslips. I can see a Samstrains and Hoonigan collab coming up 😉 This was a really good tutorial Sam, I hope you and your family are well!
haha thanks a lot Richard, all the same to you my friend, take care!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I like traction tires, I have a layout with an uneven floor, so traction tires in my case are very important
That's fair enough - I can see them being handy for you! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Flatness or undulation of floor should be irrelevant. You can correct for that in laying the track base.
Nice tutorial, I've used a product called "bullfrog snot" to replace failed traction tyres before but I dislike the tyres anyway.
Great video Sam
Yeah I've seen that too - I didn't fancy it myself - how is it?!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Works ok but you've got to be careful to get the thickness even.
Yep love it, you have given me the push start I needed to swap out the one locomotive I have with horible traction tyers, my beautiful T9. Wheel set ordered and for less then £5 I'm smiling 😀. Great video, thanks Sam
Thanks very much Jose - awesome - be very careful mate - hope it works!! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Might have to give this one a go at some point. I bought a second-hand 14xx class a couple of months back and one of the traction tyres just slipped off after a few minutes of running. I'd just left it off, hadn't noticed any performance issues but I suppose it's better to replace the set rather than just leave it
Good luck with it! Yes the 14xx would be a great candidate for a similar conversion - they are bad aren't they?? :/
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Intresting vid ...traction tyres can be a real pain....I sometines find random disgarded ones laying around my trackside ...
They certainly can be - haha me too! xD
i got agree with you with Peter's spares they do seem t to up price products I'm currently trying to find parts for my bachmann B1 Ourebi bearings and piston block/ valve gear mine broke through age
Yeah - no idea why some of their stuff should be so expensive!! :O
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Yes love the way it runs now with its stalling on pull away maybe some more waight will help her a lot more
many thanks for a great video
Yes absolutely - and there's plenty of space for that too! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Once I had a new (ish) Hornby 14XX (all wheel pick up) and it had traction tires on one set of driving wheels which effected the performance by a lot. So I took the traction tyres off and it runs a lot better
Ahh yes I know the ones - they're often a bit dodgy!!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam..... Anyone who LIKES Traction Tyres, *AREN'T REAL HOBBYISTS!!!* 😲
Hate to sound the Snob, but there it is.
If I may add #4 - They cause the Loco to WOBBLE down the Track more often than not.
You've done your Railroad quite a service!! 😎👌👏👏👏👏👏
Please stay SAFE! 😷
Carmine ✈🚂🚙
haha I don't know about that - but I'm certainly not a fan!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Being used to Märklin this is actually quite interesting to me, as all their models have them. Presumably this is mainly due to the centre pickup, which would add some friction. However the locos are generally really heavy and well-built with powerful motors. So when you've got a modern electric engine (which have all axles driven and one traction tire per axle) you can pull ridiculously long trains, 30 modern metal-framed 4-axle freight cars are no issue. I've also not noticed any real degrading yet, even with one 16-year old loco where the services consisted of oiling and cleaning the visible gears every five years.
Thanks for sharing, that's very interesting actually - almost all British models have done away with the rubber tyres now, in place of higher quality heavier models. Very surprised that Marklin hasn't done the same?!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains
Thanks for your reply, it seems like the UK and German market have different expectations, as even the most expensive models here will have several traction tires. Sadly this does mean that we miss out on wheelspin, however even very small locomotives are then able to reliably pull long trains up inclines. Manufacturers generally make sure that the motors are strong enough to break traction even with several traction tires, and both my father and me have never had a single motor burn out in over 20 years.
From watching your channel I've gathered several key differences between UK and German manufacturers; for instance sprung buffers in H0 scale are unheard of here, whilst more or less every locomotive sold here since the mid-2000s has a DCC decoder and several functions, with non-entry models having sounds as standard.
Prices are also a lot higher, with what's considered to be a basic (but still realistically detailed) entry-level electric or diesel locomotive from Märklin coming in at over 120£, and some H0 locomotives costing as much as 500£. Level of detail is usually comparable, but aside from fitted details locomotives are generally all-metal construction.
This year Märklin is releasing a Class 66 in several different versions, with a DC spec under the Trix brand. It might be worth checking out and comparing to Hornby, from having seen early models it appears to have four axles driven, with all of them having traction tires. It is rather expensive though.
Just watched it, really good vid. There are some RTR loco's in need of this treatment and I've always been a bit aprehensive of how to change the wheels, plus older engines needing finer flanges.
I took some traction tyres off older Hornby loco's as they kept causing stalling by not being flat. They run better now although a few have a bit of a waddle.
Yeah I agree, tyres are an abomination, especially today; bloody hate 'em.
Thanks very much! Yeah it's a nasty job usually - and yes they can waddle a bit without the tyres!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
In the States, some manufacturers had a separate axle without tires on it because the model had the axle with them on by default. Sadly most of them now only have the tire axle in the box and no extra axle. MTH and Rapido provide the bare wheel axle where Broadway Limited used to offer it but don’t anymore. Personally I prefer them because some Bachmann locos can’t pull a thing, my Berkshire can’t pull more than 10 cars and my GS-4 same deal, my Niagara however can pull about 20 cars.... just the chassis was better on them. Point being, some prefer them or some don’t. I’m going thankfull for them on many occasions.
That's a great idea - I wish British manufactures gave us the option like that!! :O
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hey, I have something for you to consider. On hattons there is a train pack called The Lyme Regis Branch Line. It has a hornby adams radial and 2 súper detailed hornby suburban coaches for £149. I thought it would be up your ally as the locomotive is usually worth that much and the coaches are usually £50 each. Just something to consider. ( R3398 )
Oh wow I do love the sound of that - I'll check them out!! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I have a tender drive D49 which has traction tyres. When I bought it second hand, I removed them, and the loco could barely pull anything without crawling to a stop. When I recently put the ‘em back on, the loco performed so much better. Strong, faster, and even smoother running.
one of my favorite things about this hobby is the ability to maintain things yourself instead of relying solely on the manufactures
I agree Sam - I do enjoy doing things like this! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
all this content is making me want to pull out my models!,lol,I`m going to try to send a single photo of my collection,may be a 2 parter,not sure yet
haha do it!! Hope you have fun! I'd love to see that! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Wish you had a fix for locos, like my O scale, that I can not get parts for.....but good work on yours!
Thank you!! Yeah it's not an easy fix sadly :(
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
6:38 Sam has brought in the big guns! xP
Yeah!! :D
When I took my OO locomotives from storage after about 30 years, I found that some were okay, while others were not. Only two of the stored machines were intended for the new layout, a Hornby Hall with "Magnahesion" from the 1970s and an Airfix 1400 with tyres. The tyres had gone egg shaped. I looked on several forums and all said ditch the tyres. I did. There's a bit of spin when starting, but general running is much better. I take the things off all locomotives as I buy them now. One problem I have encountered though is a Mainline Dean Goods 0-6-0, with tender drive, plastic driven wheels with tyres and pickups only on the loco. I bought it used. It looks good but doesn't run at all without the traction tyres - I've just put it in a siding!
Ahh yes - the 14xx is known for the tyres going bad - I have thought of trying this with a 14xx some day, it might need replacement wheels without ridges though!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Thanks for the reply. All I did was cut off the tyres.
Isn't there some rejuvenating fluid you could use to clean the tyres periodically to keep the grip and prevent them from becoming brittle?
Is there? I'd be very interested to try that!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
To be fair the D49s and many other 4-4-0s were fairly weak locos anyway, so if they can't handle bigger loads if anything it's more realistic! Good job Sam!
Yeah absolutely - though mine can manage at least 6 coaches on level track now that I've added weight! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
As to disposal of excess wheels, axels & bearing pieces, use them to fill your roundhouse (UK-EU engine house) Or a local SCRAP yard or gondola No waste, no cost.
To supplement your argument of tire deterioration, a lot of wheels that have them aren't insulated so when they go down enough you're going to get a short circuit. Broadway Limited locos are notorious for this but they insist on putting them on unless you buy it from them specifically telling them to replace them with proper wheels.
Hi Sam. Love the videos. Have you Tried bullfrog snot. Cut off the old traction tire. Power the wheels. Paint on the bullfrog snot. Let it dry. And you have a new traction tire. Avoids wheel changing. Worth a review?
Great video as always! I hope you had a Happy Easter and I can't wait to see your next video. Huge fan
Thanks very much Kerry, hope you had a great easter too! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Nice vid Sam!
Thanks Harry! :D
No problem
Great video Sam I wonder why people don’t like them even though they are the things that allow our trains to pull great loads
Absolutely David - hopefully the video should explain why! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
A product called bullfrog snot is fantastic. Just brush it on and keeps the traction but isn’t unsightly and bulky
Yes I've heard about that - I didn't fancy it myself, but it may be worth a try! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I'm fine with traction tires as long as it's a good loco with tires. Meaning the tires aren't used as an alternative to having a good, well made loco
Yeah me too - there are some good uses of traction tyres out there! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
As you mentioned the Southern V - Schools class - in fact it is not possible, to change the wheels without changing the look of the engine. Just have a look at the counterweights - the size of them is different!
And although many of my Roco engines have traction tires, I have never had problems with motors which ran hot.
Yes that's very true - they do look a bit different, though it doesn't affect the performance in any way! It's a compromise unfortunately, like many things!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam, you can remove or decrease the spring length on the leading bogie to increase the pulling ability. You just need to make sure the centre of gravity is between the driving wheels.
Ahh interesting Terry -I never thought the springs were powerful enough to make much difference!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The traction tyres had disintegrated on my Dapol Pendolino. Funny thing is it worked okay without the traction tyres, but I had to fit replacement traction tyres. Didn't I? Then guess what? With the brand new traction tyres, the thing had such rapid acceleration that it broke the driveshaft! And now a replacement is unobtainable! According to the man in the model shop, Hornby still fit traction tyres because a lot of their customers have still got those traditional train set layouts with steep gradients.
Sorry to hear that - blimey, sounds like one thing after another!! :O
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam, great video! Buying new wheelsets could end up getting expensive, so if I ever need to replace any traction tires I will get a pot of Bullfrog Snot! It is around £30, but something that in my opinion offers better value for money. Perhaps you could do a review for it?
That's fair enough mate - I've heard that it's good, but didn't fancy it myself unfortunately :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
That's nice of Hornby to make a wheel set for a Hornby Railroad locomotive that has traction tires. If someone doesn't like the traction tires (which would be you obviously), then this would be a great opportunity to get the set of wheels for that exact locomotive to get rid of the traction tires. They might as well follow this tutorial video too! :P
Yes it's great that they're available to buy - a godsend really! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam, great video and idea, Hornby's otherwise lovely Schools is brought down by traction tyres and I never understood why! often I have wondered if there is a tight metal band that could be forced onto the wheels, filling the groove and giving a metal tread. The oddest one of all is V'itrains class 37 that has huge weight but still has traction tyres????
Thanks a lot Mike - yes I'd love if a band could be applied like that... a heat-shrink band? You're right about the 37... totally unnecessary!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Just wondering, have you heard of a product called Bullfrog Snot? It's a liquid you apply to the grooves left by traction tyres, which dries into a robust plastic. I've used it on one of my locos to replace traction tires, and it hasn't failed me yet. I applied it a few years ago.
Yeah I've heard of that - to me it still has most of the disadvantages of traction tyres though, so I prefer weighty models! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
i feel the same about tender driven locos they dont run realistically. good video and i would prefer less pulling power for a better all around look to a locos running performance.
OOh yeah - don't get me started on tender drive!! xD
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Just had the thought... What would you do about tender driven locos? like 90% of the Hornby Thomas models? they have traction tires but they're practically essential to pulling
I wouldn't really recommend that - there's not much space to add extra weight to those tenders, though swapping the wheels would be easy enough, depending on availability!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Rubber Tyres: **Exist**
Sam’s Trains: can u dont
This job can be a bit of a pain at times because not only do you have to take out the wheel that has the traction tire, but you also have to swap both of the wheels from the wheel set to get it in the right position that the original wheel was in.
Yes indeed - it's very lengthy, but worthwhile I think! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Great Vid Sam My Hornby And Lima Class 47 have traction tyres im not a big fan of them either seems like to much work to remove them though lol thanks for the vid sam
yeah they do - I'm not a fan either - it is quite a lot of work though, you're right :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam. Great video. I had no idea about quartering and still do not understand the theory behind it (other than the loco wouldn't work!). I'm sure that like me there are many who would not have noticed the offset while dismantling the traction-tyred wheelset.
Thanks a lot Paul - they need to be quartered, otherwise the pistons/connecting rods would jam up! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
It's done on real locos so that the engine never stops with all crankpins on dead centres, which would mean it would be unable to move (unless "barred" into a starting position by men with long poles).