Addressing the CZ P-10 C Firing Pin Stop Design Flaw (Read Description, Updated 7 April 2021)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มี.ค. 2021
- Note, the functional structural integrity of the firing pin block of my CZ P-10 C does not change when the gun is assembled. Here is from Wikipedia:
Firing pin block
A firing pin block is a mechanical block used in semi-automatic firearms and some revolvers that, when at rest, obstructs forward travel of the firing pin, but is linked to the trigger mechanism and clears the obstruction to the pin just before the hammer or striker is released. This prevents the firing pin from striking a chambered cartridge unless the trigger is pulled, even if the hammer is released due to a faulty sear or the pin is dropped or struck by another object.
Here's a parallel to draw, my CZ P-10 C is basically a series 70 1911 because its firing pin block does not work, and the functional structural integrity of the firing pin block does not change when the gun is assembled. My firing pin block is still free to move inside the gun just like it is outside the gun, I stuck a pin inside the gun when it was fully assembled to try to move the firing pin block and it was free to move. Basically think of it like this, it's like a series 80 1911 with a non functioning firing pin block, essentially turning it into a series 70, not that a series 70 usually has problems, it's just that it's better to have a functioning firing pin block in modern guns. Almost all other pistols' firing pin blocks work when the whole guns are both assembled and disassembled, this P-10 C Firing Pin block does not either way and will ignite a primer by pulling the striker back and letting go or if the sear were to disengage. Essentially what is happening here is, my CZ P-10 C is relying solely on the sear engagement in order to keep the gun safe, not BOTH sear engagement in conjunction with a firing pin block like most other pistols. A series 70 1911 is the same way, it is relying solely on hammer-sear engagement to keep the gun safe, if a series 70 1911 were to take a drop on the back of the hammer, it could possibly slip forward from the sear and fire a round, with a series 80, if the same thing were to happen, the hammer would slip forward but the gun would not fire as its firing pin block is actually functional, this is why it is important to have a functioning firing pin block both when the gun is assembled and disassembled, and not rely solely on sear engagement. The CZ P-10 C to me, indeed does actually have a strong sear engagement that will usually not fail, however if it were to fail, keep in mind that the firing pin block that is designed for those rare instances, will not do its job. In conclusion, your CZ P-10 C will not likely give you any problems, but just remember that it is operating similar to a series 70 1911 regarding its firing pin block. - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
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A firing pin block is a mechanical block used in semi-automatic firearms and some revolvers that, when at rest, obstructs forward travel of the firing pin, but is linked to the trigger mechanism and clears the obstruction to the pin just before the hammer or striker is released. This prevents the firing pin from striking a chambered cartridge unless the trigger is pulled, even if the hammer is released due to a faulty sear or the pin is dropped or struck by another object.
Here's a parallel to draw, my CZ P-10 C is basically a series 70 1911 because its firing pin block does not work, and the functional structural integrity of the firing pin block does not change when the gun is assembled. My firing pin block is still free to move inside the gun just like it is outside the gun, I stuck a pin inside the gun when it was fully assembled to try to move the firing pin block and it was free to move. Basically think of it like this, it's like a series 80 1911 with a non functioning firing pin block, essentially turning it into a series 70, not that a series 70 usually has problems, it's just that it's better to have a functioning firing pin block in modern guns. Almost all other pistols' firing pin blocks work when the whole guns are both assembled and disassembled, this P-10 C Firing Pin block does not either way and will ignite a primer by pulling the striker back and letting go or if the sear were to disengage. Essentially what is happening here is, my CZ P-10 C is relying solely on the sear engagement in order to keep the gun safe, not BOTH sear engagement in conjunction with a firing pin block like most other pistols. A series 70 1911 is the same way, it is relying solely on hammer-sear engagement to keep the gun safe, if a series 70 1911 were to take a drop on the back of the hammer, it could possibly slip forward from the sear and fire a round, with a series 80, if the same thing were to happen, the hammer would slip forward but the gun would not fire as its firing pin block is actually functional, this is why it is important to have a functioning firing pin block both when the gun is assembled and disassembled, and not rely solely on sear engagement. The CZ P-10 C to me, indeed does actually have a strong sear engagement that will usually not fail, however if it were to fail, keep in mind that the firing pin block that is designed for those rare instances, will not do its job. In conclusion, your CZ P-10 C will not likely give you any problems, but just remember that it is operating similar to a series 70 1911 regarding its firing pin block.
Outside of the factory, we’ve also employed the services of an NIJ-certified independent third party to perform testing to the P-10 platform in accordance with NIJ-STD-0112.03, Autoloading Pistols.
During this outside testing, P-10s of various configurations/models were subjected to extremes of temperature and environment like sand, salt water immersion and more. Another aspect was extensive rough handling and drop tests. In those tests the P-10 performed as we knew it would - experiencing no failures.
The main safety systems, as you’ve mentioned in your write-up, are the trigger safety and the drop safety. Both of these mechanical safeties work to prevent the P-10 from firing without the trigger being pulled.
The safety in question is a third safety, known as the ‘automatic safety.’ For the automatic safety to ever need to be employed, either the firing pin, the sear surface of the trigger bar, the trigger bar spring pin or the frame itself would have to fail. In the incredibly rare instance of one of these items failing, the role of the automatic safety is to reduce the chance of the firing pin igniting a chambered round, adding a third layer to the robust safety system within the P-10.
There are many factors present in the 'testing' in question that are not able to be present in the P-10 during use in its assembled form. First and foremost, the firing pin travel exhibited in videos of these ‘tests’ is far greater than the maximum firing pin travel reached during the normal cocking/firing sequence (to the tune of 1.5x, resulting in a corresponding increase in inertia within the firing pin).
Realistically and in the worst case scenario, were a failure to happen the firing pin would be falling from its pre-cocked position with far less force, allowing the automatic safety to retard its forward travel. When in the pre-cocked position, the firing pin still has 3.5mm to travel before achieving its full travel and being released by the trigger bar.
A major factor in all of this is that the designers of the P-10 intended this tertiary safety to function once and as a last resort were a parts failure to have occurred, envisioning it much like an airbag in a car. During normal use of the firearm, the automatic safety never impacts the corresponding shoulder on the firing pin. As such, when called upon those two engagement surfaces are able to make positive contact, hampering the firing pin's forward progress.
Subjecting the system to non-standard testing such as this will in no question create undue wear to those engagement surfaces, and the more times the test is repeated, the less chance the automatic safety will be able to perform its function in the rare instance it were needed. Fully withdrawing the firing pin to that overdrawn position will exacerbate this greatly.
Like in other instances where faulty information on the internet has led folks to perform ill-advised 'testing' that ends up damaging guns
Nice copy and paste job
"the role of the automatic safety is to REDUCE the chance of the firing pin igniting a chambered round..." i don't like how you said "reduce..." I prefer a gun like a glock where you can say eliminate. of course anything is possible, but the p10 design seems more like a "slow down" than a "block." i'll pass on the p10 for that reason plus they were assembling the striker block incorrectly initially from the factory (See this video: CZ P-10C Drop Safety Issue). There's too many other options to settle for this kind of crap
@@tonyrogo227 what did he copy from? I’m curious I want to see the original
All the ytube engineers got to put in there two cents.
Why doesn't the P-10 have an exterior manual thumb safety also?
No we understand, the person who doesn't understand is you. Stop making videos like you know what you're talking about. If you truly think you have a faulty gun then send it in, but as I stated I repeated the "demonstration " you did in the previous video and the stop on my pistol functions fine. The gun has been out for quite some time, and if it had an issue we would have heard about it.
Heres a parallel to draw, mine is basically a series 70 1911 because my specific firing pin block does not work, and the functional structural integrity of the firing pin block does not change when it is assembled with the rest of the gun. My firing pin block is still free to move inside the gun just like it is outside the gun, I stuck I pin inside the gun when it was fully assembled and it was free to move. Basically think of it like this, it like a series 80 1911 with a non functioning firing pin block, essentially turning it into a series 70, not that a series 70 usually has problems, it's just that it's better to have a functioning firing pin block in modern guns. Almost all other pistols' firing pin blocks work outside the gun disassembled, this one does not and will ignite a primer by pulling the striker back and letting go.
@@Radvous + drawing comparison to a 1911 isn't making your any smarter or proving your point. If you are so inclined that your the only CZ p-10c owner in 4 years to have any issue like this, then send it to CZ and document that process.
The whole assembly moving is a nothing burger. You need around 18-20 newtons of force to set off a small pistol primer. The mass of the entire assembly is around 10 grams and would be pushing against a captured spring holding it back at a force of around 20 newtons. For that little 10 gram assembly to overcome those forces and have enough force to set off a primer, you would have to drop that gun straight on its nose at speeds well beyond it's terminal velocity.
Also, why did you bend your firing pin block? It doesn't work if you break it.
WHEN THE FIREARM IS ASSEBMLED,you will notice that the "fire pin block" is held in place(BLOCKED),until trigger is moved to disengage it,you can not test it when firearm is taken apart,it is a function by more than one moving parts
It moves when assembled, that's what I'm trying to tell people, it is not held in place by anything, what you just said is incorrect.
Outside of the factory, we’ve also employed the services of an NIJ-certified independent third party to perform testing to the P-10 platform in accordance with NIJ-STD-0112.03, Autoloading Pistols.
During this outside testing, P-10s of various configurations/models were subjected to extremes of temperature and environment like sand, salt water immersion and more. Another aspect was extensive rough handling and drop tests. In those tests the P-10 performed as we knew it would - experiencing no failures.
The main safety systems, as you’ve mentioned in your write-up, are the trigger safety and the drop safety. Both of these mechanical safeties work to prevent the P-10 from firing without the trigger being pulled.
The safety in question is a third safety, known as the ‘automatic safety.’ For the automatic safety to ever need to be employed, either the firing pin, the sear surface of the trigger bar, the trigger bar spring pin or the frame itself would have to fail. In the incredibly rare instance of one of these items failing, the role of the automatic safety is to reduce the chance of the firing pin igniting a chambered round, adding a third layer to the robust safety system within the P-10.
There are many factors present in the 'testing' in question that are not able to be present in the P-10 during use in its assembled form. First and foremost, the firing pin travel exhibited in videos of these ‘tests’ is far greater than the maximum firing pin travel reached during the normal cocking/firing sequence (to the tune of 1.5x, resulting in a corresponding increase in inertia within the firing pin).
Realistically and in the worst case scenario, were a failure to happen the firing pin would be falling from its pre-cocked position with far less force, allowing the automatic safety to retard its forward travel. When in the pre-cocked position, the firing pin still has 3.5mm to travel before achieving its full travel and being released by the trigger bar.
A major factor in all of this is that the designers of the P-10 intended this tertiary safety to function once and as a last resort were a parts failure to have occurred, envisioning it much like an airbag in a car. During normal use of the firearm, the automatic safety never impacts the corresponding shoulder on the firing pin. As such, when called upon those two engagement surfaces are able to make positive contact, hampering the firing pin's forward progress.
Subjecting the system to non-standard testing such as this will in no question create undue wear to those engagement surfaces, and the more times the test is repeated, the less chance the automatic safety will be able to perform its function in the rare instance it were needed. Fully withdrawing the firing pin to that overdrawn position will exacerbate this greatly.
Like in other instances where faulty information on the internet has led folks to perform ill-advised 'testing' that ends up damaging guns
Ok, I tested this myself with live primers. The firing pin block will fail from the force of a fully cocked striker. Nothing holds it shut from the lower frame. But it does work reliably from anything less than 3/4 cocked. And it's only half cocked unless you pull the trigger. So it does work enough to obsorb the energy.
The 2nd part about the whole assembly, which is spring loaded agaist the primer, slam firing from impact just won't happen unless you launch it out of a cannon.
The one time you "demonstrated" the issue you the safety was disengaged by the toothbrush. In normal operation it blocks the striker very reliably. Also if the pistol falls the striker is not pulled back further as you are doing with the toothbrush. It is constantly pushing forward under spring tension. In terms of the whole assembly moving forward, the pistol would have to fall muzzle down and there is simply not enough inertia to allow the assembly to go forward and discharge a round. Finally the CZ design is superior because the plunger design on the Glock and M&P is prone to becoming stuck if oil and debris gunks it up.
He explained to me that the triangular nub plays two different roles depending on the position & movement of the trigger/trigger-bar/disconnector.
For the record, here's the breakdown:
When the trigger is in the forward/active position, the trigger connector is in physical contact with the striker connector at all times, and holds it rearward, effectively playing the "firing pin block" role while the firearm is in that state. It's actually true that in this state, the block is not "secure," but it doesn't matter because the trigger connector/bar itself is doing its job.
When the trigger is being pulled, the movement of the trigger bar rearward at its "raised" level uses the SIDE of that triangular nub to disengage the safety and pull it sideways (rightward if you're looking down the length of the pistol from behind).
When the trigger reaches the rearward position, the connector drops downward (causing the striker to release) (you can see this when pulling the trigger forward and rearward when the slide is off). It's SLIGHTLY raised after firing, which allows the striker to re-engage against the trigger connector and pull it a little rearward when it cycles forward (this pressure also enables the trigger's reset when released after the slide cycles).
SO, as for the triangular nub's OTHER role: when the trigger connector/bar is in the lowered/down/rearward position and the slide moves back forward, that triangular piece is now moved down & rearward and into the proper position for the TOP of it to forcibly hold the striker safety/block in the "closed" position, leftward. So the SIDE of it disengages the safety when pulling the trigger, and the TOP of it then holds it closed in the rearward position, after the slide has cycled.
So...it's actually an elegant, if unusual design, and I was wrong to be worried. The spring on the block/safety is only really used to move it back into place to allow the triangular nub to do its job when the slide moves back forward.
Hope this helps!
You were correct up the last paragraph, the triangle nub in is in fact not designed to hold the firing pin block in place in the rearward position, that would be pointless as nobody carries the gun with the trigger depressed with a round in the chamber. The idea of the firing pin block is that it's designed to work when the trigger is in its forward, ready-to-fire position for safety, by preventing the firing pin from exposing through the breachface. The trigger bar in the forward position does nothing to hold the firing pin block in place as it is different mechanical location. Now we arent talking about how safe the trigger bar drop safety is, that works fine, just the firing pin block. It would be weird to say that your seat belt doesnt work, but your fine because your airbags do and you dont get in crashes.
This is an interesting find. I just got my P-10C OR version yesterday. It's a (20)21 model. I tried two tests in your video. 1. When pull the firing pin back, then let it snap back. The firing pin block can completely block the firing pin bypass. 2. Push the whole unit forward. The whole unit including the firing pin and its block can still move forward but they can only move about 1/2 distance comparing to yours. The firing pin can still come out a little. Not sure whether it can still strike the primer or not.
BTW, it needs a mount of force to push the whole unit forward. By measure that force and the mass of the unit, we can get the result how much acceleration is needed to reach the point. Assuming the pistol drop to the ground takes 0.1 second to stop, we can get the speed it needs to reach the acceleration . Then, we will also get the height to make it happen.
Test it like this. With the pistol in its assembled state with a magazine in it. Now rack the pistol, now lock the slide back and check the firing pin to see if it can be pushed past the block. Now drop the slide and pull the trigger then rack it again and lock the slide back. Check the firing pin to see if you can push it past the block again. Repeat that as many times as you like. If you do it that way and you can NEVER push it past the block it works exactly how its designed to. That is how it operates when it cycles the action. I guarantee you if you test it like that you will never be able to just push the firing pin past the block, once it goes back into battery and the slide cycles, that firing pin will be behind the block everytime. Now on to the whole assembly moving. The pressure it takes to move the entire assembly forward is to much to move that firing pin forward easy enough and hard enough to set a primer off from a distance out of a hand or more distance even. If it was that easy the pistol would go automatic during firing it from the inertia of the slide slamming forward each time. Also the firing pin never slams into the block like that during its normal cycling to begin with. Its also only pulled back just alittle bit when the pin is resting in its firing position. You are misunderstanding the engineering of the CZ P10 series functions. Its not a Glock or any other pistol.
The sear on the striker and trigger bar catch when the slide goes into battery, what the firing pin block is for is in case the sear gets disengaged, the firing pin block is supposed to stop the round from going off if there is a slippage of the sear. If your firing pin block doesn't work when the sear slips then a round will go off if the sear slips, turning it into similarly a series 70 1911. Most of the time you can rely on the sear engagement and not have to worry about having a firing pin block as a backup, but firing pins break and they can break at the sear too, in those cases you need something to stop the firing pin from striking the round. Any other pistol design out there stops the firing pin from protruding from the breachface no matter if the gun is disassembled or not and the only way those guns allow firing pins to protrude is when the block moves out of the way when firing.
I know what it all does. The firing pin will not hit the round in its assembled normal operating state. You must be missing that point. Whether the sear engages or not. The firing pin will be locked back behind the block during normal operation of the pistol period. Its ok though you can believe what ever you like. The P10's have had no safety concerns for a reason and its because the safety mechanisms do there jobs under normal proper operation. Not slamming the firing pin abnormally into them, which never happens lol!!
@@gregt.169 oh trust me, I know that the firing pin will be held back behind the block during normal operations, that's called sear engagement. If sear engagement fails from a drop or whatever reason, the block that is designed to stop the firing pin in non-normal conditions, won't actually stop the firing pin is what I am trying to tell you. Remember, the block is there for preventative measures for non-normal conditions, not normal conditions. What I am telling you is that the block doesn't work as designed, even Minute pressure of slowly pushing the firing pin forward sometimes bypasses the block. It's like I'm telling you that keyboards keys are designed for typing, but that in this keyboard designed, the keys don't work and nothing appears on screen, that's the parallel.
@@Radvous I still believe you missed my point. I said the firing pin will be locked back behind the block whether the sear engages or not under normal operation or from a drop etc... of the pistol. CZ has been making firearms for a veerryy longtime. You are over thinking it and missing the point of how the pistols internal condition is when its cycled and loaded. Again believe what you like.
@@gregt.169 so you're telling me that the firing pin will be locked behind the block? Unless when being fired of course. Is that what you're trying to tell me?
The CZ has no firing block issue. Just because it is different that the others, you see it as a possible issue. If you look back at the development of the CZ P10 series, it has taken years and years of R&D and testing. CZ will never put a firearm into the market with a possible issue. They have tested it over and over again. There is no record of any failure in this regard. Drop tested a million times, it has been though tests and test. There seems to be so many self-taught gunsmiths and gun designers out there that knows the every inch of every weapon ever. Please prove me wrong. Sent the link of the video footage where a cz p10c sticker block or firing block fails.
Everyone can say my friend or this guy and that guy. Come on guys. CZ p10C is just as good if not better than any Glock or S&W or Sig or FN series pistol out there
CZ discontinued their original P-10 C because there were design issues man.
@@Radvous i bought the lates ref, gen 2, and the only difference is the mag release that is single sided now, man. Strip it, check it. The fireing pin blocknis still the same. You glock fanboys will always have issues with with anything that kicks a glocks ass. CZ P10C. Improving on perfection.... The glock killer
@@Radvous and buy the way, if there was any issues, cz would have recalled all the gen 1 p10c pistols. It actually a company with integrity.
@@henripienaar136 who said I was a Glock fanboy? I have Glocks, CZs, M&Ps, Caniks, 1911s, Rugers, etc, you're just a silly goose, have a nice day
@Yeet Cannon Outfitters I play on PC
Just inspected mine. If I pull the trigger then rack it the firing pin block is never engaged. If I dont pull the trigger and rack it it is always engaged. Every time the trigger resets my firing pin block also resets and is engaged. I would like to see you perform all your tests making sure the trigger is in the firing position.
With the gun assembled and the trigger forward, I can stick a small alan key through the back of the slide and easily move the firing pin block. I hope this helps.
So I have a 2021 and 22 model and one thing isn't making sense. If they discontinued a specific model number because of something as serious as a firing pin issue like you've stated, why is there not a recall for all those models?
The thing CZ fixed was the older model P10s striker sear rotating sideways and jamming up the gun.
Thank you for the info. Appreciate it.
I think you are possibly missing the spring that holds that block in position when the trigger is not activated
I just realized today this damn gun has been knicking the back of the primers. What is the fix for this??
there is no fix because there is no problem. he doesn't know what he's saying
Interesting you are the only individual to have this problem not to mention my division using the CCP 10 generation 2 have got 19,000 rounds through them without any firing pin safety issues
Probably because the sear on the P-10 C is great
So what’s the fix ?
Does CZ make a stronger spring for the firing pin block?
I will be contacting CZ
Either a stronger spring or a larger block itself, CZ will probably deny it.
So is this a safety recall issue or something? I just bought the p10 c and the p10f, do I need to contact cz and see what needs to be done??
It's a possible failure point, but you should be alright.
@@Radvous Thank u.
All mechanical devices can fail, regardless how well they are designed. It's the user that's the true safety. Do I think CZ should redesign the firing pin block on the P-10c? Yes.
You are are 100% wrong and others have commented as such. You are trying to argue that a disassembled gun demonstrates improper function and somehow that is indictive of its assembled state...which is absurd! The gun is a system of components that work together. When assembled the firing pin block is held in the safe position until the trigger is pulled by the triangle part of the action that locks it in place. If you hold the slide over the frame with just a slight gap you can easily see this.
he keeps on saying that he's worried that the slide and frame will come apart and then the slide will fire the chambered bullet. the scenario that he's imagining is very likely impossible to happen
Pretty accurate 👍
This is the next eisode: "Part one: I can't find the flaw" and "Part two: I make up some BS, and perhaps S&W pays me"...
Just so you know, CZ discontinued a previous version of the P-10 C because of flaws
My P01 is a useless P.O.S. My Glock never failed me. I'm selling my P.O.S P01 to any fan boy who might want it.
@@watchingthecrazyworld7761 I will buy it lmao i have a ton of pistols maybe 6 different brands but my cz p07 has around 8.5k rounds through it without a single malfunction. I have a gen 5 g17 that has about 2k with like 8 failures. I've seen glocks that run like a top but in terms of trigger, sights, ergos they just aren't the best. They just have a good track record in terms of modern military and police use
@Lophophorasaurus Let me know if you are serious. If so, I will get you my email. I would take $750 for it. It would come with 2 mags, a leather shoulder holster, and the original case. I had upgraded sites installed that cost $150 and new aftermarket grips. So that's a good deal.
Just curios, when the gun is assembled, what would make the firing pin move forward without pulling the trigger?
A malfunction, these safeties are there in case of malfunctions, not in case the gun works properly. If the gun ever malfunctions, it may fire whereas if other guns malfunction, they will not.
@@Radvous 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
This is when social media proves how it’s a detriment. That so many in the comments are taking this seriously is just sad. Easier test since you think you have an inferior gun unsafe for others: your P-10 should have come with snap caps that have replaceable foam where the primer would be. Try some drop and hammer to the back of slide tests while the gun is FULLY ASSEMBLED and record the test from beginning to end. Show us the an impacted foam primer after getting one to go off and how much force was necessary for this to occur. There’s dozens of these tests on TH-cam you can reference. Stop counter claiming that gunsmiths and engineers aren’t as smart as people think they may be. You made a claim. Demonstrate it in an assembled gun or take this goofy video down.
I'm worried about potentially the slide separating from the frame from being dropped. Not likely, but if the firing pin stop works only when the gun is assembled, then if the slide comes off, it would no longer be a stable system since the gun is no longer properly assembled. I'll tell you what though, using a needle, poking it from the back of the slide, I can move the firing pin stop just like I could when the gun is disassembled, so in actually, assembling the gun doesn't do anything to increase the firing pin stops integrity.
@@Radvous it won't happen. it will take a lot of force to separate the slide from the frame. dropping it won't just cut it. maybe if you drop it from a 30 story building then it might. even though, you're not sure if it will going to fire when it breaks apart
Doesn't help that he's clearly bent it. "Hey guys, look at this gun I broke not working how it's supposed to".
Exceptionally well done thank you
Great explanation.
Can you test drop it on a primed shell?
He doesn’t even need that. You can get snap caps with foam cylinders where the primer would be. He can run drop and hammer tests easily with the gun fully assembled and demonstrate that he was able to get the guns internal safeties to fail this way. He hasn’t. If he’s such an amateur rocket scientist, he would already know how to prove his claim. Anyone can go digging into an unassembled firearm with tools and make things fail.
of course he won't do that. he'll become a laughing stock
I did, with 3 times to make sure it's consistent
Released from half to 3/4 cocked the primer was dented but didn't go off, even with reactivate strikes on the same one. But when released from full cocked it did go off. Although when loaded, the striker is only half cocked. While it could be better designed, it's definitely safe enough. Not to mention the sear can't move down in the half cocked position, so the sear will have to physically break before this even matters
This early Gen one P10 or newer model? Looks Gen 1 they had lots of issues that’s since fixed now least I think
2020 model
@@Radvous looks nothing like it maybe I’m wrong
@@tacticalbt1023 this model doesn't have the Ambi magazine release like the originals, and the loose swiveling striker assembly is not present on this one, also the serial number identifies it as a 2020 production.
Are the 2021 models all good?
I am unsure, I would have to test one of the 2021 versions out.
It needs a negative angle cut on both the fp safety and the fp. So when engaged they lock into each other. Super simple fix.
Perfect, great thinking, most people can't think like that.
i am sorry for my igorance, but wht is a negative angle cut? could you explain what do you mean? sounds interesting!
I took mine apart and the whole assembly including the firing pin block moves forward and the firing pin sticks out and would indeed fire a round, just as you show in the video. So that could be a problem if the gun is dropped and worse yet I guess the gun could fire if you racked the slide and then let go to close being the case being loaded as the slide goes forward? I guess the only safe way to carry the CZ would be with no round in the chamber and also when racking the gun you would have to not let it slam forward like in other pistols. It's a really nice gun, too bad about the design flaw. I wonder if it would be possible for a gunsmith to insert something to prevent the whole mechanism sliding forward.
great demo.... very usual info.....
Thanks for the video. It seems obvious to me there is, at least a potential, issue.
I don't think its a design flaw, that whole unit to move forward as you demonstrated, takes a huge amount of inertia, after the trigger fails and slide comes apart, which never happened as of to date, CZ is a great company and did a lot of testing before they release the gun, if its a real flaw, I'm sure lawyers will jump on that with Lawsuits , and we would've heard about it, like the sig issue, if you're not an engineer i would not trust you're analysis.
I tested with a live primer, the firing pin block safety does fail to stop a strike released from fully cocked position. But works from repeative strike up to it being around 3/4 cocked. And when loaded, it's only half cocked. I don't know why they didn't make a more "impossible" to fail but I would definitely say it's safe. The sear not being able to move down in the half cocked position alone would be a drop safety. This blocker will only matter if the sear somehow breaks
Great video, the new Sig P365 is severely flawed similar to this.
thanks man. I don't like the design either. They could do better than that... Safety should be kept first. Firing pin blocks are supposed to be that safety net you can always count on when everything else goes wrong.
SIg made everyone paranoid. Sig has a history of rolling out firearms with issues... both pistols and rifles. Yes, any company can have a recall, but CZ is in another league than Sig which is trying to roll out cheap pistols to win a gov't contract.
This I'll agree with, the CZ 75s are amazing pistols as well as 99% of their products, but every company has that metaphoric 1%, CZ is no exception. But hear me out, this gun works fine because all of its design except for this one part works super well, which means you'll basically never need this flawed part of the gun, that being said that part is flawed even though you'll most likely never need it.
@@Radvous It's better to have it and not need it than need it not have it. The very idea of buying a gun in and of itself from home and self-defense. Goes the same way with certain components of a gun.
The slide stop spring design on The p10c sucks mine is only 3months old under 100rounds it wants to be a pump shotgun. Bad bad design come on cz.
My new one dated 2023 works as it should.
Do you know if this has been corrected in current versions of the gun? Would this issue stop you from buying one if you liked it otherwise?
Nice vid. I’m not very mechanical and I could understand it.
It's designed to stop the striker at its pre cock position. Not from where he's pulling it to.
I don't think pulling the trigger even gets it that far back.
If the idea bothers you, get an m&p or better yet get a da/sa. Near impossible to have the both half and 3/4 cock notches fail and the fp block fail. And you can thumb the hammer on holstering which is when people shoot themselves anyway aka glock leg.
I have one with a production date of 2023 and mine does not have this issue and works as it should
Same
Sad to see a honest and valuable thought got attacked. It's never excessive involving safeties. Test environments can't cover all scenarios in the reality. A couple thousand rounds without failure even proofs nothing. CZ ought to do some improvements about it. Although there's seldom a turn to let firing pin block do its job, standing a scarecrow to guard a bank seems ridiculous anyway.
Bro you should be handling guns if you don't know anything about them. The fact that you don't see the irony in comparing an MP to a CZ p10 should of got absolutely 0 views 🤣
I'm probably a better shot and have more experience than you, thank you for the comment though.
What's the irony about comparing two polymer-framed striker fired pistols?
You are a damned fool if you believe a S&W is superior to any CZ!!! As a retired uniform individual CZ is by far the most superior firearm manufacture on the planet!! Their history and craftsmanship is an testament to this claim! As someone that carried and help develop through our Dept.......the M&P is pure unadulterated JUNK!!! I personally have (11) of the P-10 series pistols with many getting 7,000 rnds through a few of them before cleaning.....I can vouch for the craftsmanship!!! (3) P series (2 C and 1 S) with 7,000 rounds with (3) failure to extract with Forge 115gr. ammo!! Good luck with the spin!
Both are great, I still do like my CZ, I have a new video on it
Whew calm down... Nobody said your momma looked like a werewolf or something.
He illustrated a issue with the striker safety on his p10.
Millions of m&p owners and their sales numbers will show your full of it about them being junk.
Who the actual fuck buys TEN pistols of the SAME MODEL.
This is TH-cam man. And you got some severe issues with the way you react to shit ..
We're so glad you a retired uniform. Matter fact we can tell. Most of you act the same damn way when people say something you don't like. How dare they think they know more than you.
Go pound sand prick.
I dunno bout that...CZ-75s break their firing pin retaining pins quite often...imagine being in a fire fight and having your gun break mid fight. NO thank you
lol. triggered much? Cz ain't the best. Not even close. 7,000 rounds?? Let me know if when it hits 80,000 rounds like hk or 300,000 like glock. Let me know when the frames stop cracking with puny 9mm ammo. Let me know when they make a gun that isn't comically oversized. Let me know when they get a decent caliber like 40,45,10 mm, 5.7.
Cz used to be good now its junk especially the p10c
Shame the P10 uses, in my opinion, an inferior firing pin block substitution. I really love my S model. I am planning to CC a Glock but it feels like a big downgrade. Big tradeoff for safety. I hope CZ resolves this issue before any one is hurt and their reputation is stained.
Their reputation is still intact and the sky hasn't fallen yet a year later 🤪🤪
This has been a "problem" for six years and I have not seen or heard of one single instance of a P-10 series negligent discharge from mechanical failure.
@@TheOfficialCaseMade Ya, I just learned recently the P10 series is partially cocked. Lol
How do people not understand the issue that you are describing? Thanks for the vids on the topic. I would like to pick one of these up, but as it stands I’m not willing to point it at my 🥜
Yeah the czp10c has slide stop spring failure too
Thousands of rounds down range with my P10 without a single issue.
@Ubal_Blunt has cz said anything about this as in a recall or anything?
@Ubal_Blunt Thank u bro.
@Blunt if there are no recall or issues being reported then there is no issue. this video is just BS. he can't comprehend the engineering of the gun that's why he is just spewing non-sense and claims that are not proven
Also be careful with the sweat on the mag catch! A friend of mine use it iwb in hot summer and sweat reached the mag catch. He didn't knew about it and after he came back from a 10 day holiday the mag was stuck inside the gun. If you know you sweat like a pig use some vaseline on the mag catch spring
That was only on the gen 1s, they got rid of the ambi mag release in the gen 2s because of those problems
@@aztronomy7457 So my new duty gun P10C 9x19 Nato with ambi mag release have these problems? The mag release button is very hard to press. This gun is considered military grade here and is not available for civilians.
@@orhanabd1724 there should be a 2 digit number on the right side of your gun right above the slide release. That’s the year it was made. If it’s anything 2020 and beyond you should be fine. The SLIDE release on all CZ p10c’s are hard to press at first but then they break in. If you have a round in the chamber then they are easier to press. The MAG release however, if yours has a button on BOTH sides, might be a bit of a problem. Does your magazine release have a button on both sides, or does it just give you the option to swap it out? Because both styles are technically considered ambidextrous. The latter is better. However based on reading your comments it sounds like you might be referring to the slide release being hard to press, since that seems to be a normal problem people complain about with the p10.
@@orhanabd1724 if you do have a button on both sides for the MAG release, and you have no option to change it, I’d maybe test it with some water/dirt and see if it fails. Better to test it out before you get into a combat situation. But I’d absolutely be a bit worried, if I had one of the original Cz p10s, If you had an older model with 2 mag releases.
@@aztronomy7457 Thanks for the response. Yes the slide release is very stiff too but I always rack the slide when reloading. The gun has mag release buttons on each side (true ambidextrous) and is a pain in the ass to take the mag out. But the gun is brand new and I think it will be better after some break in. My personal CC is a G43X which is almost perfect. The only issue I have is with the crap finish on gen 5 Glocks.
Consumer finds an issue with a duty grade handgun that engineers didn't?? 🤡🤣🤣
Happens all the time, that's why there are recalls out there
There are some stuff on Google you can find too
@@Radvous I told other people this issue a long time ago, stupd cz fan boys make up all types of illogical excuses
Yes. Engineers are also humans and are controlled and are under pressure by the companies
That's because "you don't understand" what he is talking about. AKA... he is wrong and won't admit it. lol
M&P slide release is a major design failure. Small lock pin is stupid and easily breakable. I agree
I bought my CZ P01 several months ago. I love the way it feels, but it's one malfunctioning P.O.S.
I hear your my p10c the first day I shot it 34 rounds started being a p.o.s. malfunctioning. This gun was all hyped up I searched and finally found one talk about a mistake. Slide stop spring design is crap.
What do you want to prove? That something doesn't work the way you expect it to, just the way it was designed, it is obvious. The situation that the fully cocked firing pin hits the lock will never occur except in your test. There will also be no mechanical wear of the lock because in a normal firing cycle the lock never comes into contact with the striking firing pin. Lock wear can only occur when someone intentionally strikes the lock with a fully cocked firing pin. Just. There's no other way. You wrote about a possible malfunction and that the lock should protect against accidental shooting. And you prove that the lockdown isn't exaggerated to protect against a situation that will never happen. What if there is a lock failure really happens, and the block won't release EVEN when we try to fire? In CZ, the spire will overcome such a blockage, and maybe it will save your life. The lock is designed to withstand the firing pin falling off the trigger rail without the trigger being pulled, and nothing more, not even 1% more than that. Because when this lock fails, you pull the trigger to save your life, the lock won't release. And the gun will be useless. All this test it's like proving that some company released a defective car model because the brakes don't work in zero gravity.
Pretty accurate 👍
Damn is this a real issue? Have there been legitimate cases? Or is this just theoretical... have any CZ p10fs just fired of their own accord or when dropped?
In my limited research on this subject, it is just theoretical. What I find funny is the multiple cases of the Sig P320 going off in holsters, yet many law enforcement agencies are adopting them still.
It's impossible for the P320 to fire without pulling the trigger. Those injuries are the result no trigger safety design and negligence. Throw some dirtbag lawyers into the mix and you got yourself a class action lawsuit. You really believe a firearms maker would leave an unsafe product on the market?
@@mikemcintosh295 I don't know about this case in particular but I've seen other cases featured where they've demonstrated a firearm firing by itself and then they explained the mechanism, and corrected it. Although rare it's not as though it's never happened.
@@jamesharris184 th-cam.com/video/dPKMu47uWXQ/w-d-xo.html
@@jamesharris184 th-cam.com/video/3f0PXVKRl-Y/w-d-xo.html
Jesus...
There's a reason why you have 600 subscribers... Don't quit your day job
I have 3 subscribers, you're the one with 600 buddy. Also I am going to quit the military after my contract to become a federal LEO. Seems like a solid plan!
You keep saying “you’re missing the point” when others tell you the system works as one, not with the slide removed. Just to get to a point, where did you attend gunsmith school instead of being a TH-cam genius?
I'd say a have an extremely mechanically inclined background th-cam.com/video/3QCrFIXZTTc/w-d-xo.html / th-cam.com/video/hBWf2C6Q2Nk/w-d-xo.html
Also no the slide doesn't have any more integrity with the slide installed on the gun, the firing pin stop is in a place where it is designed to be able to move and nothing is holding it in place any different than it is when the slide is outside the gun. Also depending on your pistol, your slide may pop off the frame if it takes a hit hard enough, some Glock slides have been known to have broken rails too, but good thing their firing pins work outside the frame. Most people are not super mechanically inclined, that's why most people are not engineers so think about that. A lot of times it takes one person that's different than others to figure out stuff.
@Huntski Kerbiden-Zhaojing that's fine, I am all ears if you or someone else could make a video explaining in detail how I am wrong. What I want to know is how does the firing pin block not have an issue, as that is my main concern. My concerns do not lie in the rest of the gun functioning as those have seen to be engineered just fine, I also indeed do like the gun, it fits great and has a nice feeling trigger. I'm am open to detailed video and explanation of the firing pin block specifically how it allegedly actually works just fine. Me thoroughly examining my gun, I have seen first hand that when the gun is assembled, the structural integrity of the firing pin block doesn't actually change as nothing on the frame actually holds it in place any different than it is outside of the gun. Also I would like to ask anyone, what is the point of a firing pin block as well, there has to be a specific reason to it. I look forward to learning, thank you.
@Huntski Kerbiden-Zhaojing you can't just yell, you have to back it up, show a video of your CZ.
@Huntski Kerbiden-Zhaojing I have even put in a small pin inside the gun when it is assembled, to try and see if anything holds the firing pin block, nothing does, it moves sloppily and freely even when the gun is assembled. Please answer this though, what is the point of a firing pin block? What is is purpose and what is it designed for?
The pistol must be assembled for this to work. Cz can sue for this.
Even if that is true (it's not because I tested the safety while the gun was assembled), the safety itself by design is supposed to work if the slide breaks off the frame, if it only works when assembled in theory, it is pointless. It's supposed to be designed to work whether the gun is assembled or not. Glocks, M&Ps, Caniks, HKs etc. all work when disassembled.
@@Radvous Thanks. I have the p10m. Hope it works ok.
@@larryjones6049 the p10m doesn’t have this “automatic safety” feature. It’s the only one in that line that doesn’t.
I think you over oil the CZ. Clean and get rid of some of that mess mix with the oil and try again. However it's a poor design. The M&P design is different and better.
There's no such thing as over lubrication, if too much oil interferes with the simple mechanical function of a gun then that's a gun issue, not an oil issue. People who say there's too much oil on my guns don't shoot enough to see their oil burn up. My range sessions sometimes include up to a whole 1,000 round case+ worth of ammo. No way a tiny bit of oil is going to last. If you shoot 50 or 100 rounds per session then okay sure, you don't need that much oil.
moral of the story dont drop your guns
I'll bet my neighbors just heard me slap my head. Walk yourself through that line of thought again and let's see if you can figure out where you lost it.
Better yet, teach me if you know so much. Remember, its function doesn't change when the gun is assembled, I can take a needle through the back of the slide and flip that safety, nothing is holding it. What else do you have to inform me about?
@@Radvous Great, go ahead and grab a probe and measure from the back of the slide how far back the striker is actually taken to under function, then go ahead and repeat your little test under the actual forces the striker is capable of producing instead of slingshotting it from as far back as it can go. If you have a small trigger pull gauge, you should measure the differences in forces compared to where it actually gets cocked to vs where you are extending it to. Your "test" is putting the firing pin spring under compression that it doesn't ever reach during normal function and are jacking the striker forward with more force than it is capable of producing under normal function. Not hard dude.
@@Radvous And FYI, there is an anti-rotation device on the seer which keeps that safety from moving. But sure, you claim the function doesn't change...
lol
@Arthur11342 there is not buddy, that's just heresay, checked mine multiple time
@@Radvous If by checked you mean mangled with a toothbrush, sure.
Get yourself a Taurus GS3.
I don't have one, but if you're going to hate on my price-sensitive investment... .. .
Firearm safeties can fail, the user is the ultimate safety. Personally don't like the firing block on the CZ P-10c, there are better designs.
Very true, the best safety is between the ears. But you would think safeties are designed to work, not fail from the get-go.
Even if this conspiracy theory were true, easy fix. Killer Innovations slide nuff said.
It's engineering, not some supernatural stuff
MP better design than CZ P10 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 ya ok. The new KIA also better design than Lamborghini too right.🤣🤣🤣🤣
Lmak cz p10 is no Lamborghini its a glock knock off without the reliability 😂😅😅
@@bigclen5206 i have glocks too. My cz is 10 times better than my glock. And CZ is the most reliable gun in world. Wtf are u talking about?
Save the headache get the new Smith and Wesson sdve 2.o or a IWI Masada. Cz p10c is garbage
Please have a gunsmith explain it to you. You do not know what you are talking about.
Gunsmiths are not as intelligent as you think, nowhere even close to someone who possesses a decent understanding of other mechanics. Guns are not complex machines, a lawnmower engine is by far a more complicated machine and if you can understand those, you'll understand exactly why this part of this gun design is flawed.
@@Radvous so you are the intelligent person that we should believe and listen to? please stop embarrassing yourself 🤣 the more I read your replies the more stupid I think you are
@@anonymous09154 I know a thing or two about mechanics, more than the average joe like you: th-cam.com/users/shortsNlfb8KYdvEk?feature=share
@@Radvous that I won't argue. On experience and knowledge you really are better than me an average joe. But saying that you're better than gunsmiths and engineers behind the gun? Well you are just lifting yourself on the podium mate. If you're going to present an argument then back it up with tests and evidence rather than mumbling and saying funny things that makes you look like a fool
@@anonymous09154 ok fine I'll do that
looks like you upset a large group of fanbois
because he's argument is just plain stupid. if he really knew something about guns, he won't post this goofy video
You put way too much oil in your guns
Nah, no such thing.
If this is a so called design failure then why hasnt there been any negligent discharges due to this so called problem? And the example of you pulling the striker back as far as it go and letting it fly is not how the firearms work. The sear is hooked on the striker and moves maybe 1/8 of an inch of that. So this video is straight bullshit and a waste of mine and anyone elses time.
The whole problem is that you're using your toothbrush instead of a pencil to point to components. And, you are mot a trained armourer or a firearms engineer. This video should be deleted because of False Information. Step away from the key board and go brush yer teeth.
You don't need to be a paid engineer to understand mechanics. That's a fallacy. Only an idiot would think guns are some sort of high-tech engineering that requires gunsmith or engineering knowledge, SMH.
Me quedo con cz. Mucho mejores.