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00:00 Why it is rejected
07:52 Western innovations
12:02 Prayer for the dead
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orthodoxwiki.org/Purgatory
• Is Purgatory taught in...
• What Happens to the So...
As a Protestant, Orthodoxy is in my Heart. I pray that my Orthodox Brothers in Christ will be Safe Under the Lord's Conditions. God Bless You All. ☦️🙏
Why not join the church then?
I really contemplate becoming orthodox. Last week I attended fragment of the Divine Liturgy before my university classes. In Poland we do not have so many orthodox churches but I managed to find it. While entering I felt like I was finally at home. It was a small chapel at the back of cathedral and it was so comfy and heavenly with incense and candles in the dark chapel. Also I was interested in Orthodoxy since I was 9 or 10 years old and university is a great opportunity to finally fulfill my biggest dream. Please pray for me that I make great decision. Peace bros and sis' ✌️
Zastanów się nad tym lepiej dobrze. Jedynie katolicyzm jest prawdziwym wyzwaniem, bo tylko Kościół Katolicki spełnia wszystkie cechy Kościoła (jeden, święty, powszechny i apostolski). Cerkiew przede wszystkim nie jest apostolska. Od czasów schizmy nie prowadzi praktycznie w ogóle działalności misyjnej. Nie jest też jedna i powszechna - podzielona na kościoły lokalne (Cerkiew rosyjska, serbska itp). Co prawda wszystkie Cerkwie mają tą samą wiarę ale są skupione na poszczególnych narodach (brakuje tu uniwersalności jak w przypadku KK, który jest jedynym kościołem, z jedynym oficjalnym językiem itp. W KK następuje stopniowe pogłębianie nauki pod wpływem Ducha Świętego, a Cerkiew jest tak jakby sparaliżowana, bo nie ma jednego organu ponad Kościołami, które mogłyby zwołać sobór i rozwinąć naukę dalej tak jak to miało miejsce do schizmy. I w końcu Cerkwie mają tendencję do bycia upolitycznionymi (np Cerekiew rosyjska podlega de facto Putinowi, tak jak jeszcze przed schizmą podlegała Bizancjum). To że władza w KK nie podlegała władzy swieckiej prowadziło do rozwoju cywilizacji (wolnośc jednostki itp). Podporządkowanie sobie Cerkwi przez władze świecką prowadzi do tyrani (np w Rosji). Cywilizacja zachodu bazująca na katolicyzmie stała się największą cywilizacją w dziejach.To są argumenty które przekonują mnie do prawdziwości Kościoła Katolickiego. Przez herezję modernizmu panoszącą się od 100 lat w KK wydaje się że cerkiew jest bardziej tradycyjna, ale nie jest to prawda
@Piter311 Your reasoning is not good on many counts but Ill refute just the first. You cease to be "apostolic" if you stop conducting missionary work (which is also untrue)? If you are apostolic (ie descended from the apostles) nothing can change that fact. Also, Orthodox church did do alot of missionary work. Whole of eastern Russia, Japan, Alaska. I'm a Southeast Asian attending Orthodox church here. Roman Catholicism has spread far and wide in the Americas (and elsewhere) not merely because of missionaries, but military power. Eg Spanish conquest of Latin Amarica. The colonizers brought force upon the native pagans,and pls don't tell me nobody was forced to convert to roman catholicism at gunpoint.
As a Catholic on his journey towards Holy Orthodoxy, Purgatory was, and still is, I think, one of the hardest teachings to let go. The western legalistic mindset is still very much embedded in my heart. Thank you so much for this video!
After a few years you'll drop it, just keep up the struggle of living a Orthodox life.
As a former Catholic myself, once they started making up these huge words that’s just aphabet soup to explain things I found it hard to trust any catholic teaching, if someone has to use these confusing terms to explain it to me I doubt it truly makes sense
Maybe research the toll houses, it may help you let go of purgatory. God bless you on your journey friend, as a former Protestant I can understand how difficult it is to let go of past beliefs.
He misunderstood the teaching. Read paragraph 1472 and 1473 of the Catechism.
@@Coteincdr Nothing to misunderstand here.
When I was debating going Orthodox or Catholic, i looked up the proof texts for purgatory and it was... VERY sparce to say the least.
Like most catholic dogma tbh...
@@sjappiyah4071 like what? Maybe I can help
@@catholicfamily6719 Why not start with purgatory since it’s the topic of discussion.
@@sjappiyah4071Bro stops responding bc he knew he couldn’t say anything 😂😂
The important thing is it is not contradicted by Scripture. The Holy Spirit reveals things though His Church.
I don't see Western and Eastern post-mortem views that different. Kind of like the Filioque, just doesn't seem a big deal to me..
The whole "reduce time in purgatory" concept seems like nonsense in the context of an eternal afterlife.
1st Corinthians 3:13
''Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.''
The key here is ''but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.'' you will be saved, but you will have to go through fire for purification.
People in Heaven: ☦️❤️🙌
People in Hell: 🔥🔥😢⚰️🔥
People in Purgatory: 🗿🗿🗿💀
That quote in the end from saint John of Damascus is so full of hope. Thank you for great video!
th-cam.com/video/_lMVX2eDIfI/w-d-xo.html
As someone in the middle of choosing a denomination, this checks the box off of the catholic church. Will start attending a local orthodox church asap.
Don’t do it. Purgatory is simply the cleansing of the soul before heaven. Kyle is over complicating it to make it seem bad. Only a sinless soul can make it to heaven so purgatory is simply the cleansing before heaven. We do not know the time
@@WarEagleWalrus Like it or not, Catholicism is not the same Church founded by Christ. Why make additions that cannot be backed up? Why change tradition? The best bet is the unchanged Church founded by Christ, because how could that be wrong?
Orthodoxy us the truth ☦
@@Belisarius_IC_XC_NIKA I hear this all the time but it is a false accusation. It is the EXACT same Church founded by Christ. If you get a new haircut are you not the same person who was birthed by your parents. The Church is a living body so of course things might change as thousands of years pass. Should we still be speaking Latin in every single Mass or you speaking Greek every single liturgy. Change is not bad if done with Christ’s guidance. Change has helped grow the Church to lead more souls to Christ. Now we don’t confess in front of our whole community 🤣. It’s such a black and white way to think about this, change=BAD🗿 ,
no change=GOOD🗿.
The Church is the most beautiful and mysterious entity on Earth it can adapt to its situation with new knowledge and wisdom of it peoples through the Grace of God without changing into something EVIL OR NO EVIDENCE!!! ARGHH!! The Orthodox Church is great I’m an Eastern Catholic but you see the fruits of both Church churches. Think about this, if the Catholic Church followed the same trajectory as the Orthodox Church there would be less than 100 million Christians probably. So it was obviously of God’s will to allow the Catholic Church to go through everything it has in order for it to become his beautiful and thriving body here on earth.
I was a former traditional catholic and attended a byzantine catholic. Now I'm orthodox. I'm home
im glad youre home, may God be with you ❤
i would like to thank you for your videos, theyre full of wisdom and theological insight condensed into a short video even us zoomers can comprehend
I am just repeating the Saints! they are very wise. Glad you enjoyed!
@@OrthodoxKyle hey Kyle, I wanted to ask you how many books are in the Orthodox Bible?
@@yeshuacaceres9722 7 more than there are in the Latin Bible.
@@yeshuacaceres9722 76 books
Thank you so much for this video!!! I've asked this for a long time but never had a satisfactory answer. This is by far the most comprehensive video on the subject. Thank you for being a great source of information for those learning about Orthodoxy.
It's a false explanation
@@bornbranded29 What's false about it?
@@richarddunn9286 Crickets haha.
@@bornbranded29 lol are you on a crusade here? Typical Roman Catholic.
Great video! Very clarifying on an important subject.
Amazing well put video yet again
Thank You, GOD BLESS YOU!❤☦️🙏
Great job with this video! You explained your perspective very well.
You make really good videos that explain things very well and simple enough to understand. Keep it up!
Glad you like them!
@Johnny BeeHam thanks 🙏🙏
As a protestant it seems like this to me.
Catholic: Too man centred in its teaching in a way that puts mans word above scripture and God, creating a bunch of unbiblical traditions
Protestant: Rejected Catholicism so much that it no longer holds to or trusts any teaching by man that isnt in the Bible itself. You could say this is harmful but I would think of protestants like abused Christians that no longer trust in mans teaching post the bible due to the abuse of mans teaching in the catholic church.
Orthodox could be that perfect middle ground but I still don't know enough about it.
Catholicism is Tradition without relationship, Protestantism is relatiojship without tradition! I have videos refuted both (Protestanism Debunked in 15 minutes, Why I left Catholicism). Lmk if you have any questions! Visit a Church this Sunday: orthodoxyinamerica.org/ & join the discord: discord.com/invite/wtqDsy4eVs
Lutheranism (confessional only (lcms, wels, aalc)) is between those 3 choices, but still not as trad as orthodoxy, this does come with the benefit of using both Eastern and Western fathers even post schism. I'd recommend Jordan Cooper if you're curious, and honestly I think it's good for you to be orthodox or Lutheran, wherever God places you.
C. S. Lewis, The Great Divorce, is a look at heaven and hell. It is actually closer to Orthodoxy than to Catholicism.
The soul needs time to repair before facing the fullness of God at the Resurrection. But the souls wait in heaven not in purgatory. Great read and I recommend it.
Phenomenal video brother! ☦
Someone brought up a really good point. They mentioned the Rosary is good to do as long as we don’t do the Mysteries. That sparked my interest a tad. When I pray the Rosary, I can’t imagine leaving the Mysteries out because 1) it’s Scripture, and 2) it brings me into a closer union with Christ. I draw closer to Him through His mother and through the Mysteries.
I found it fascinating when you said that the Rosary today is used primarily for the intention of praying for the souls in Purgatory. As a westerner, I must tell you I have never used it for that. I use it as a spiritual defense against the enemy and temptation, and to draw closer to our Lord. What is your take on that? Thank you for your video. I look forward to seeing your response.
I used to be Roman Catholic, I was just talking about the underlying logic & history of the Rosary. I know many Catholics see it as a defense against the devil / growing closer to God, and it can do that. I am just explaining how It is caught up in post-schism Western Doctrine, not Orthodox of the first 1000 years. I would be MUCH better to just do the Jesus Prayer with a Prayer rope. Mysteries and fantasizing on these events can lead to prelest. We should not fantasize while trying to pray. Not everyone does that but many Catholic Saints talk about imagining these events / imagining getting tortured for your sins etc etc, WE should not be imagining & fantasizing, we should be rooted and reject this method. Jesus Prayer: th-cam.com/video/HyJB4nSUfHQ/w-d-xo.html
"used primarily for the intention of praying for the souls in Purgatory" that is not what I said, I said that praying the Rosary daily is tied to making sure that YOU have NO time in purgatory. Called The Sabbatine Privilege. For example, people get enrolled in the brown scapular and they are told to pray the rosary daily and if they do, they will have NO time in purgatory WHILE wearing the brown scapular => WHOSOEVER DIES IN THIS GARMENT SHALL NOT SUFFER ETERNAL FIRE.” - promise of Our Lady to St. Simon Stock on July 16, 1251 www.sistersofcarmel.com/brown-scapular-information.php
My point was that we do NOT see this focus / theme in the first 1000 years, it is something that develops post-Great Schism. I would say Purgatory, Rosary, Brown Scapular and Marian Apparitions are all CLOSELY related:
On Marian Apparitions: orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/marian_apparitions.aspx
Orthodox Christians reject all of those because they all developed after the Schism. Not only that but they are a different spirituality FROM first 1000 years. I used to be Catholic and explain incorrect innovations (Vatican I, Vatican II, Novus Ordo etc etc in my other videos)... check them out! reach out on email or discord if you have any questions/
This is a great in depth critique of Roman Catholicism: th-cam.com/video/bTOkG5G9lUY/w-d-xo.html
I make these videos / comments out of love, not hatred. I want everyone to experience Holy Orthodoxy! God bless!
@@OrthodoxKylethe idea that meditating on the mysteries while praying the rosary leads to “prelest” is a horrible take
@@Billyjoe78517 I had to look up the word and totally disagree how @OrthodoxKyle use it to describe the "effects" of using the Rosary. The more I recite, meditate, and dive deep into the mysteries, the more I'm reminded how sinful I am, how badly I need Jesus, and how He loves me despite of my sinfulness.
@@H3Et I swear they use that term constantly. Each time I want to try to understand or be sympathetic to the orthodox, I see comments like this and I start back at square one
Kyle, this & your previous five videos are fire, keep up the good work brother ☦
I appreciate that! thanks!
Hebrews 9:27 “People are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment.” it didn't say anything about indulgences or purgatory. Kyle,I'm Presbyterian but i really like you,your videos really Influence me.Keep it up mate👍May our Triune God bless you
Thanks! you should check out my videos Protestantism Debunked in 15 minutes, Mike Winger, Doug Wilson etc etc.. And look into Orthodoxy (: YOU should get Rock & Sand by Fr Josiah Trenham! I believe he was Presbyterian before becoming an Orthodox Priest... best book ever & maybe visit an Orthodox Church, God bless!
Indulgences are no longer valid actually In facts it's been a long time since the Catholic church sold those
@@OrthodoxKyle Presbyterian are not high church enough lol, confessional Lutheran here, Kyle still hasn't properly debunked lutheranism yet since he used the "luther defines all of Lutheranism" fallacy when in fact our confessions are what define us.
He has to go after Jordan Cooper now, but it'll probably be hard to do it if he only uses videos where he talks about eastern concepts positively, which I hope he'll go for, otherwise I'm bracing myself for a trip that uses the most easy to mess with videos. Even though his "5 reasons I am not orthodox video exists" Kyle shouldn't use that as the crux of his takedown as outside of that video he's very favorable to the east without of course becoming one of them.
@@OrthodoxKyle btw Kyle what's the name of the intro chant?
@@ThumbKnuckle There are women larping as priests in lutheranism, you do not have the complete bible, and your sect was established by a man. Orthodoxy was given to us by God Himself.
Praying for you, friend
This is where us protestants and orthodox are aligned. The Roman Church has gone too far by adding this purgatory thing into the dogma.
watch this: th-cam.com/video/grhRgXFo_sQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=X09AyQjZ_T4Nuc2l
th-cam.com/video/_dP4ppvQZpU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ImCixtUaHZdUTFxb
Come visit
orthodoxyinamerica.org/
reach out if you have questions!
When the Protestants tried to reform the excesses and abuses of Catholicism, they literally reached too far back and cleared out practices like prayers for the dead, as well as the books of the Apocrypha (inter-Testamental literature), which left so many gaps in Christian knowledge and learning. I have Protestant friends who mostly have no idea of the process of Biblical compilation and end up saying the Apocrypha was a series of post-NT books added in by Catholics, which was absolutely untrue! Their claim that praying for the dead is a form of necromancy is also wrong too.
Literally?
Lutherans and Anglicans both affirm the Apocrypha as canon, we just don’t have them in our Bibles because the English translators decided not to include them. Though we do not consider them on the level of Scripture.
@@captainfordo1 So, not Scripture then if not canon
@kevinjanghj Do you ever get tired of blaming Protestants for your churches problems?
@@captainfordo1Basically the deutero-canons were not included in protestant bibles because the publishers deemed it unnecessary. It's a joke that Luther or the publishers get to decided on what is "canon" for them and they go by "sola scriptura". It's a joke. And btw the 1611 KJV included the deutero-canons.
undoing the protestant mindset early on in life will help. thanks for the video
Good content and very informative
Likin this new video style
Always look forward to your videos brother.
glad you like them! God bless!
Phenomenal video. God’s mercy is so amazing.
If purgatory is true then Jesus's death would be pointless. Why would we even need religion if we could just be cleansed by punishment after we die?
Look up the difference between mortal and venial sin and what that has to do with purgatory. Long story short, your argument is invalid.
@@carlcproductions Christ covers all sins venial or mortal, your argument makes no sense.
@@cameroncampbell7706 My response was a reference to the fact that purgatory makes no changes from state of mortal sin to a state of salvation. In other words it doesn't take an unsaved person and make them saved.
Now if you were bringing up Jesus' death as if to imply there is no room for personal suffering united with Christ in God's plan for salvation for us, then you're arguing against the bible when it says the road to salvation is narrow (and difficult) or when Jesus says to pick up your cross and follow him. Sacrifice and suffering united with Christ (as a means of accepting God's grace) is biblical.
Or would you tell Jesus no when he says to pick up your cross?
because without the Cross we would go to hell not purgatory.
Purgatory is katarsis, it is purgation from our disordered passions. When we sin God demands penance from us, thus we might say there is a temporal punishement for sin. But this penance exists for the sake of purifying us from our disordered passions.
And this is what Purgatory is, penance after death so our passions are purified
This brought a tear to my eye. This is what it means to believe in a living God. He sees our weakness and will not give up on us as long as we strive for repentance.
Aerial toll houses (also called "telonia", from the Greek: τελωνεία / telonia, customs) are a belief held by some in the Eastern Orthodox Church which states that "following a person's death the soul leaves the body, and is escorted to God by angels. During this journey the soul passes through an aerial realm, which is inhabited by wicked spirits (Ephesians 6:12). The soul encounters these demons at various points referred to as toll-houses where the demons then attempt to accuse it of sin and, if possible, drag the soul into hell".
Amazing video brother❤️ I was wondering if it would be possible to make a video about Sola Fide? Much love and prayer from Denmark🤲🏻🇩🇰❤️☦️
Yes, I have covered in some videos but I will try and make full video in the future! God bless!
It’s simple I think: The Bible doesn’t mention sola scriptura, so it has no basis even standing on its own as an argument.
@@LKRaider sola scriptura means scripture is the final authority, not the only authority, only one of those low church sects would even confess scripture as the only authority. Obviously not all protestants are Amish.
good video!!!
Throughout my Catholic education, I heard affirmations from priests and believers while I found nothing in the writings to support this. On a more secular note, Historians make the same mistakes in constructing a reality that the primary sources do not say at all.
I bet you didn't read anything, or can you cite some sources?
@bornbranded29 do you have any proof to support the existence of the purgatory?
@@bornbranded29 I wish I could bet with you to make some money.
Your arguments are really strong.
Still waiting for the proof of the purgatory.
@@jessecerasus9621 Can you answer my question? I asked for you to cite the sources that you checked for purgatory.
@@yoyotheplayer9403 What in your mind constitutes proof?
Thanks for bringing up the harrowing of hell. Idk why but I never made the connection that this event contradicts the existence of purgatory
YESS! (: God bless!
I seriously wonder how anyone can be Eastern Catholic and reconcile what Rome says with their conscience and the Bible.
@@drjanitor3747 That is not possible, because my faith does not depend on the papacy.
@@drjanitor3747 I don't care about your opinion, I follow Jesus Christ and not Rome and its false shepherd.
@@orthodoxpilgrimofficial The Pope: Says he’s wrong
The Orthodox Church: Say ur authority is null and that u were wrong
Pope: I was wrong
Orthodox Church: Now convert to orthodoxy, leave being pope, make the bishop chooser orthodox, and we will replace you
Pope: Ok (leaves after making the official orthodox doctrine canon to Catholic faith and then a puppet orthodox pope brings the Catholics to Christ.)
@@orthodoxpilgrimofficial what do you think bout that plan?
Great video as always Kyle! Could you please do a video on Oriental (Non-Chalcedonian) Orthodoxy or the Western Rite Orthodox Churches?
Yes, David Erhan has done some amazing videos on Non-Chalcedonian, go check him out!
@@OrthodoxKyle Thank you!
Great video bud like always
I just want to say though I didn't get a notification despite having the bell on. I turned the bell off and back on again, maybe that would help. Just figured I would let you know. Love ya bud, hope you're doing well
Thanks for the info, sadly TH-cam may have put me on the naughty list.. ):
Amazing video. I do want to say that the Rosary did originate from the East. Dominic's "Vision of the BVM" is a complete legend. As an Orthodox, I see nothing wrong with the rosary when it is prayed without the Mysteries.
I'm curious why you would leave out the mysteries though? While the whole thing is admittedly quite gymnastical, it's still scripture, and that is always worth meditating on.
I agree with Regan. Why leave them out? When I meditate on the Mysteries, it brings me into a closer bond with Christ. I must say that as a westerner, I’ve never once prayed the Rosary with the intention of helping someone out who is in Purgatory. I use it as a spiritual defense against the enemy and temptation, and to draw into closer union with our Lord. I look forward to hearing your response. Thank you!
We have the Prayer Rule of the Theotokos, rediscovered by St. Seraphim of Sarov which is prayed on a prayer rope but no Rosary. It has the Mysteries but no imaginitive prayer.
I wonder if there was no schism and no western church whether we protestants would actually exist we are so close to you on a great many beliefs! I really appreciate your content and your viewpoints.
Hey Kyle you are Based and Leaven-pilled, hope you are having a great day!
The promise of the brown scapular is that one who dies wearing it will not suffer *eternal* fire. Does that not mean the fire of Hell rather than the temporary fire of Purgatory?
Thank you brother, really cleared things up!
Glad it helped!
@@OrthodoxKyle
I understand why heretics like yourself doesn't like the Rosary,because satan hates it. Don't believe in the Rosary? *The Battle of Lepanto* should refresh your memory
As an LCMS Lutheran I really found the 10 pranks that went too far joke really funny.
However Dr Luther got fired for doing his job and once Rome had tossed him out, he became more emboldened on what he had discovered in scripture that contradicted the official roman catholic position.
I actually did a interview with Ex-Lutheran who became Orthodox: watch his interview th-cam.com/video/XB4Aq1_rBzwO/w-d-xo.htmlrthocast Ep 10 - Ephraim you may find it helpful!
@@OrthodoxKyle Maybe, I hear reports constantly of Lutherans leaving to become orthodox. However from what I heard from the clips in another video is that he was wels, which are a more legalistic and low church confessional brand of Lutheran. Whereas the lcms are more high church. Listening to Jordan Cooper on theosis in Lutheran theology has definitely made me a better Christian because I don't shy away from believing true things about the Bible that make reformed folks pee their pants. I'm very willing to accept tradition, in fact I think it bears great authority over the church, however if the tradition gained contradicts scripture then I'm inclined to reject it. Christians are not to be recluses for example, but to go forth and preach the gospel, so monasticism has its place provided that in being a monk you do not neglect your other Christian imperatives. It was interesting that you say once you repent that your former sins no longer belong to you. The reason why we say faith alone is because God grants faith, repentance and salvation to all who will come to him ultimately the power lies in the seed for without it the soil is worthless. Sola fide without sola gratia and soli deo Gloria is a huge mess to interpret because then one finds excuse for his sins, which of course is not the case, there is no excuse. The whole point of the Lutheran reformation was to change the focus of good works from doing pointless shows of piety for the pride of the church to instead serve God wherever he has placed you by serving your neighbor and doing good out of love for God instead of fear of hell. Perhaps we went too far in our compensation for the many errors of Rome. But even still, let us pray that truth prevails in all places, even churches seen as anathema because it would be a great failure to have Christian love to not pray for all men who confess that Jesus is Lord.
Amazing videos, Kyle. Do you recommend any videos or books that I can show my Roman Catholic friends to try to introduce them to orthodoxy? God bless. ☦️
Two Paths: Papal Monarchy by Michael Whelton
Is a good book written by ex-Catholic who became Orthodox
👍
@@OrthodoxKyle Thank you.
@@OrthodoxKyle God bless. ☦️
@@OrthodoxKyle Hey Kyle, I got another question. In one of your Islam videos, you talked about how dogs were haram and showed your dog. Do you believe dogs go to heaven/have a soul/have some sort of an afterlife? God bless. ☦️
@@the-real-John-Oconnor
kind of, watch this:
Do Animals Go To Heaven?
th-cam.com/video/2dyZBEUMgjc/w-d-xo.html
Instead of purgatory why don't we go to burgertory, I hope you brought your favorite condiments 🍔🍔🍔🍔
Don't argue against a straw man, even St Mark of Ephesus held to Purgatory, based on the actual dogma. The dogma does not say that there is a literal fire. Purgatory is simply the process by which a person's soul is purged of their sins before going to Heaven. It's not a punishment, there's no literal fire. Theories made by Dante or some Dominicans is not the Catholic position. It takes less than 5 minutes to actually read the Catholic position.
I showed the exact definitions on screen from Catholic websites. and I read St Mark's Response: orthodoxinfo.com/death/stmark_purg.aspx " It's not a punishment, there's no literal fire" you are admitting the Orthodox position.... www.newadvent.org/cathen/12575a.htm "That temporal punishment is due to sin, even after the sin itself has been pardoned by God" every Catholic knows this... No straw mans?? Do YOU know the Catholic position? I used to be Catholic.. this is one of many Catholic errors.. check out my other videos.
@@OrthodoxKyle Yes, you are stilling holding to a straw man.
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church 1030-1031:
"All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven
The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:(from St. Gregory the Great)
As for certain lesser lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgement, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come."
This language of purifying fire is not a literal fire, but is simply a reference to how 1 Corinthians 3:15 describes the Final Judgement. Which is actually omitted from the Councils of Lyons and Florence, which uses the term "purgatorial fire" or "purifying punishment"
Pope Benedict XVI further explains this in his Encyclical Letter Spe Salvi where he states:
"Some recent theologians are of the opinion that the fire which both burns and saves is Christ himself, the Judge and Saviour. The encounter with him is the decisive act of judgement. Before his gaze all falsehood melts away. This encounter with him, as it burns us, transforms and frees us, allowing us to become truly ourselves."
Even in the Ukrainian Catholic Catechism it states(250):
If a person has fallen asleep in God, having repented of all sins, but has not yet achieved spiritual maturity-the fullness of life in Christ-then that person enters the kingdom of God “as through fire” (1 Cor 3:15). After death, such a person is still in need of spiritual healing and cleansing of all stain, in order to dwell “in a place of light ... where there is no pain, sorrow, or mourning.” In the Church, this healing condition of the dead is referred to as “purgatory.”205(Council of Florence)
(St. Gregory the Theologian)
Every fair and God-beloved soul, once it has been set free from the bonds of the body, departs hence, and immediately enjoys a
sense and perception of the blessings which await it, inasmuch as that which darkened it has been purged away, or laid aside-I know not how else to term it. It then feels a wondrous pleasure and exultation, and goes rejoicing to meet its Lord.
Meanwhile, St. Mark of Ephesus(from the 1st Homily of St. Mark of Ephesus on Purgatory):
"But if souls have departed this life in faith and love, while nevertheless carrying away with themselves certain faults, whether small ones over which they have not repented at all, or great ones for which - even though they have repented over them - they did not undertake to show fruits of repentance: such souls, we believe, must be cleansed from this kind of sins, but not by means of some purgatorial fire or a definite punishment in some place (for this, as we have aid, has not at all been handed down to us). But some must be cleansed in the very departure from the body, thanks only to fear, as St. Gregory the Dialogist literally shows; while others must be cleansed after the departure from the body, either while remaining in the same earthly place, before they come to worship God and are honored with the lot of the blessed, or - if their sins were more serious and bind them for a longer duration - they are kept in Hades, but not in order to remain forever in fire and torment, but as it were in prison and confinement under guard."
He also states:
"And therefore we see no necessity whatever for any other punishment or for a cleansing fire; for some are cleansed by fear, while others are devoured by the gnawing of conscience with more torment than any fire, and still others are cleansed only the very terror before the divine glory and the uncertainty as to what the future will be. And that this is much more tormenting and punishing than anything else, experience itself shows, and St. John Chrysostom testifies to us in almost all or at least most of his moral homilies, which affirm this, as likewise does the divine ascetic Dorotheus in his homily “On the Conscience.”"
Even from the broader Eastern Orthodox Community, in the Synod of Jerusalem(in the Confession of Dositheus), it states:
"And the souls of those involved in mortal sins, who have not departed in despair but while still living in the body, though without bringing forth any fruits of repentance, have repented-by pouring forth tears, by kneeling while watching in prayers, by afflicting themselves, by relieving the poor, and finally by showing forth by their works their love towards God and their neighbor, and which the Catholic Church has from the beginning rightly called satisfaction. [Their souls] depart into Hades, and there endure the punishment due to the sins they have committed. But they are aware of their future release from there, and are delivered by the Supreme Goodness, through the prayers of the priests, and the good works which the relatives of each do for their departed.
@@internautaoriginal9951 Indulgences is a form of almsgiving, so no.
Weird, the catholic dogma as it was defined, fits perfectly in the orthodox understanding. Saint Mark believes that purgatory is temporary hell, which we call temporal fire. Pain and suffering is the temporal consequence of sin. So if a person is not trully perfected before death, what happens to the natural consequences of sin? I really dont get the whole thing.
😂Very interesting as ex Catholic now Conservative Lutheran this is very interesting. I think we the closest to the ancient church in the Protestant world. Recently I have been been watching and learning some about Orthodoxies, Greek , Coptics and Ethiopian its an interesting journey. I pray all us in the Church would learn from one another. The Holy Spirit is not confused. O how my heart yearns for the church. Thank you for this insight about after life. To know its Biblical and Traditional to pray for believers after they have departed is wonderful but I need to study this theology for myself. Thank you so much and keep the process of videos going strong.
Greek is part of the Orthodox Church but Coptic and Ethiopian left the Orthodox Church in the 5th century. They only recently started using the term.
Hey Kyle, I'm not sure if you covered this but can you make a video explaining why protestants consider the 66 books the TRUE Canon and also why EO has more books and why?
Edit: Thank you for this video!
I will try and make my own video on that subject but this video answers it!
Why Do Orthodox Have More Old Testament Books in Their Bibles?
th-cam.com/users/shortsQST3gH5ffnk
lmk if you have any other questions!
@@OrthodoxKyle thanks I'll check it out.
To my knowledge it has to do with tradition and the thought process behind the assembly of the cannon. I am inclined to use the protestant cannon because I'm biased towards St Athanasius, whereas the catholics use the Augustinian cannon, I do not know what region and saints the eastern cannon comes from at the moment.
Nice video Kyle! One of the pieces of scripture RCs use to support purgatory is Matthew 5:25-26 which speaks of a prison where debtors are put until they have paid to the last penny. How would you respond to that? it was hard for me to find a patristic explanation.
“Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26 Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.
Reconciliation is important not just for your brother, but also for someone with whom you have a dispute. Settling a wrong quickly avoids consequences that are more severe. This is a HUGE stretch trying to say that this somehow equates purgatory? It only talks about the importance of setting aside anger and reconciling relationships..
I do have a couple questions. For those souls who are perishing (say someone who died a Muslim or apostate), do they go to Hades, the same Hades that Christ harrowed in his descent to Hades? Also, is Hades a place of suffering or merely imprisonment? My understanding that the orthodox understanding of Hades is different from that of the lake of fire at the end of time, which is today commonly referred to as hell. Also, what exactly is Abraham's bosom, who goes there, and what role does it play for us today? I assume Christians today after their repose are united with God, at least after suffering the purgatorial fire in Hades that Mark of Ephesus talks about, so is that what Abraham's bosom is? Thanks for anyone who could answer these questions, I'm very curious!
Based and true !
☦☦
As a Roman Catholic, I never embraced deeply Purgatory because the teaching never went embedded onto my head.
I do agree on all the assortments of rosaries and scapulars, that confuses me.
Thankfully, I do not have this reverence for Marian apparitions.
Maybe or just maybe the local church I attended focused more on actually teaching the Gospel, the priest delivering the sermon, and as well the Eucharist.
However, many Orthodox reading this will cringe that the Roman Catholic Church, at least in Latin American, have women reading passages of the bible in the Sunday mass.
And, I assume that never, ever happens in the Orthodox churches.
I, honestly, stopped going to the RC church and from what I learned over the course of this last four years with the abuse by predatory, pedo priests in the RC churches, and anti-Pope Francis doing nothing regarding the subject, then I'm never going back to the UNorthodoxy.
I never going to abandon Christianity, but I won't ever walk the path of HETEROdoxy either because the Protestants do not have the Liturgy, all the sacraments, and faith alone or sola scriptura is nonsense.
So, I'll pray again to Jesus Christ to guide me and deliver me safely to the true Church: Orthodoxy.
I am going to properly research and inform myself on Eastern Orthodoxy.
Any Orthodox reading these can adopt the following lines as a thematic slogan:
Orthodoxy NOT heresy.
Orthodoxy NOT heterodoxy.
Orthodoxy NOT unorthodoxy.
I'm kind of like a searching protestant right now. You mentioned something about a forty day period where the soul is travelling to Heaven. This might sound very protestant of me, but how did the church come to such a conclusion when that is found no where in Scripture? Was it passed down from apostolic teaching? Or was it guidance of the Holy Spirit in the Church? Could someone please help me understand!
Amen ❤❤❤🎉🎉🎉😊😊😊
Amen❤❤❤❤🎉🎉🎉🎉😊😊😊😊
Oh man, I'd really appreciate a more detailed video on Orthodox beliefs of the afterlife. Coming from a Protestant background, I'm struggling to see how it's biblical or apostolic. Not trying to attack, but this video has been very challenging to me! I'll read up on that Father Seraphim Rose book you mentioned though 😁
Hope you enjoy the book. I showed the Biblical evidence in the video? there is much more from Bible, Apostolic & patristic teaching... Much of it is a mystery but this is just what has been revealed to us... "I'm struggling to see how" which part are you struggling with? if you let me know I can help. & read this: www.orthodox.net/articles/life-after-death-john-maximovitch.html#fn1 God bless!
@@OrthodoxKyle Thanks Kyle! I read through that article you gave me. My phrase "...struggling to see how it's biblical or apostolic" is pretty loaded I understand, but I guess the struggle is coming from this belief of the 40-day journey of the soul after separation from the body. St. John Maximovitch gives a very detailed explanation of what happens, but I do want to have the spirit of the church fathers and I know that they would encourage us to square our doctrine with the Scriptures. I can totally get on board with us being alive in Christ even after death, and that prayers to the saints can be supported, but this 40 day toll-booth journey that the soul takes is tough to confidently believe. I'd be really nervous if this topic came up around all my thoughtful Protestant friends and family and they asked me why this belief is true. I hope you can understand where I'm coming from, God bless you too man!
@@OrthodoxKyle Oh and on a good note, that last quote by St. John of Damascus is incredibly hopeful! Love it!
Yeah, outside of confessional Lutheranism (not the liberal heretics) I doubt there's any case for apostolic succession in protestantism because of the christological errors of calvin and zwingli that Luther cut them off for. Lutheranism (lcms) only exists in America today because the Prussian union churches were forcing Lutherans to confess christological heresies and they thus fled to America. Christ is present in the eucharist, but transubstantiation is a false, complicated and overexplained way of understanding it, whereas the presence is more than just spiritual. The finite can contain the infinite or else christ couldn't have been true man and true God.
As a Catholic I look at the passages of Scripture (2 Maccabees 12:41-46, 2 Timothy 1:18, Matthew 12:32, Luke 23:43, 1 Corinthians 3:11-3:15 and Hebrews 12:29) that show some place other than Heaven or Hell and don’t find it hard to believe in the existence of that place. For me Purgatory IS part of the Mercy of our Lord. But to each his own. And yet all Christians should strive to go straight to Heaven!!
I just read those, NONE of them reference a third place? The point is that the Church Fathers did not teach purgatory... The Harrowing of Hades makes no sense if there is purgatory?? it is something added later... Watch my video Why I left Catholicism for Orthodoxy!
@@OrthodoxKyle
Tertullian
“We offer sacrifices for the dead on their birthday anniversaries [the date of death-birth into eternal life]” (The Crown 3:3 [A.D. 211]).
“A woman, after the death of her husband . . . prays for his soul and asks that he may, while waiting, find rest; and that he may share in the first resurrection. And each year, on the anniversary of his death, she offers the sacrifice” (Monogamy 10:1-2 [A.D. 216]).
Cyril of Jerusalem
“Then we make mention also of those who have already fallen asleep: first, the patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and martyrs, that through their prayers and supplications God would receive our petition; next, we make mention also of the holy fathers and bishops who have already fallen asleep, and, to put it simply, of all among us who have already fallen asleep, for we believe that it will be of very great benefit to the souls of those for whom the petition is carried up, while this holy and most solemn sacrifice is laid out” (Catechetical Lectures 23:5:9 [A.D. 350]).
Gregory of Nyssa
“If a man distinguish in himself what is peculiarly human from that which is irrational, and if he be on the watch for a life of greater urbanity for himself, in this present life he will purify himself of any evil contracted, overcoming the irrational by reason. If he has inclined to the irrational pressure of the passions, using for the passions the cooperating hide of things irrational, he may afterward in a quite different manner be very much interested in what is better, when, after his departure out of the body, he gains knowledge of the difference between virtue and vice and finds that he is not able to partake of divinity until he has been purged of the filthy contagion in his soul by the purifying fire” (Sermon on the Dead [A.D. 382]).
John Chrysostom
“Let us help and commemorate them. If Job’s sons were purified by their father’s sacrifice [Job 1:5], why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them” (Homilies on First Corinthians 41:5 [A.D. 392]).
“Weep for those who die in their wealth and who with all their wealth prepared no consolation for their own souls, who had the power to wash away their sins and did not will to do it. Let us weep for them, let us assist them to the extent of our ability, let us think of some assistance for them, small as it may be, yet let us somehow assist them. But how, and in what way? By praying for them and by entreating others to pray for them, by constantly giving alms to the poor on their behalf. Not in vain was it decreed by the apostles that in the awesome mysteries remembrance should be made of the departed. They knew that here there was much gain for them, much benefit. When the entire people stands with hands uplifted, a priestly assembly, and that awesome sacrificial Victim is laid out, how, when we are calling upon God, should we not succeed in their defense? But this is done for those who have departed in the faith, while even the catechumens are not reckoned as worthy of this consolation, but are deprived of every means of assistance except one. And what is that? We may give alms to the poor on their behalf” (Homilies on Philippians 3:9-10 [A.D. 402]).
Augustine
“There is an ecclesiastical discipline, as the faithful know, when the names of the martyrs are read aloud in that place at the altar of God, where prayer is not offered for them. Prayer, however, is offered for other dead who are remembered. It is wrong to pray for a martyr, to whose prayers we ought ourselves be commended” (Sermons 159:1 [A.D. 411]).
“But by the prayers of the holy Church, and by the salvific sacrifice, and by the alms which are given for their spirits, there is no doubt that the dead are aided, that the Lord might deal more mercifully with them than their sins would deserve. The whole Church observes this practice which was handed down by the Fathers: that it prays for those who have died in the communion of the Body and Blood of Christ, when they are commemorated in their own place in the sacrifice itself; and the sacrifice is offered also in memory of them, on their behalf. If, then, works of mercy are celebrated for the sake of those who are being remembered, who would hesitate to recommend them, on whose behalf prayers to God are not offered in vain? It is not at all to be doubted that such prayers are of profit to the dead; but for such of them as lived before their death in a way that makes it possible for these things to be useful to them after death” (ibid., 172:2).
“Temporal punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by some after death, by some both here and hereafter, but all of them before that last and strictest judgment. But not all who suffer temporal punishments after death will come to eternal punishments, which are to follow after that judgment” (The City of God 21:13 [A.D. 419]).
“That there should be some fire even after this life is not incredible, and it can be inquired into and either be discovered or left hidden whether some of the faithful may be saved, some more slowly and some more quickly in the greater or lesser degree in which they loved the good things that perish, through a certain purgatorial fire” (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Charity 18:69 [A.D. 421]).
“The time which interposes between the death of a man and the final resurrection holds souls in hidden retreats, accordingly as each is deserving of rest or of hardship, in view of what it merited when it was living in the flesh. Nor can it be denied that the souls of the dead find relief through the piety of their friends and relatives who are still alive, when the Sacrifice of the Mediator [Mass] is offered for them, or when alms are given in the Church. But these things are of profit to those who, when they were alive, merited that they might afterward be able to be helped by these things. There is a certain manner of living, neither so good that there is no need of these helps after death, nor yet so wicked that these helps are of no avail after death” (ibid., 29:109).
@@atgred I clearly defined Purgatory in the video AND what Orthodox reject.. NONE of the quotes prove the Catholic Dogma.. did you even watch the video?? read the quotes??
Tertullian - ok? never talks about Third place
Cyril of Jerusalem - ok? never talks about Third place
Gregory of Nyssa - ok? never talks about Third place
John Chrysostom - you literally just copy & pasted quotes that prove praying for the dead... Which the Orthodox agree with....
Augustine - prayer for the dead.. yes.. no mention of a third place
Read St Mark of Ephesus!
@@OrthodoxKyle Purgatory is a state of the soul not a third place, no where have I find the Catholic Church defining purgatory as a “third place”.
The council made no mention of purgatory as a third place or as containing fire, which are absent also in the declarations by the Councils of Florence (1431-1449) and of Trent (1545-1563). Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI have declared that the term does not indicate a place, but a condition of existence. So what I wrote before, stands.
Kyle, in your videos about Catholicism you sometimes mention unleavened bread. Can you make video about it and explain why it's wrong and how this practice appeared?
I second that. I'd love a video about RC unleavened bread. My understanding is that it is not merely wrong, but active blasphemy. Leaven symbolizes Christ and the Kingdom of Heaven, which is now, after the Incarnation, available to humanity.
The Church always used leaven, but RomanCatholics took it out by appealing to the Old Testament, God asking the Israelites to use unleavened bread in a ritual feast. But as with everything in the Old Testament, this was a "type" (foreshadowing of things to come). Like Abraham taking his son Isaac to the mountain for sacrifice, Isaac asking "Where is the sacrificial lamb?", Abraham saying "The Lord will provide," and the Lord, in the New Testament providing His own Son as the sacrificial lamb. The unleavened bread was prescribed to the Israelites as a sign that there was something missing, and that something has been added after the Incarnation, theosis and the Kingdom is now available, Christ Himself likens leaven to the Kingdom (Luke 13:20-21), thus the leaven has been added to the bread by the Church since day one.
RomanCatholics have taken the wine/blood out of their "communion", they've removed the leaven (Christ) from the bread, and they've taken the invocation to the Holy Spirit for the "transmutation" of the bread/wine out of the liturgy. Basically, they've taken out everything. Plus they give a separate waffer to each communant, while in real Holy Communion (still practiced in Orthodoxy) everyone gets a piece from a single bread, which is the body of Christ, undivided. And you bet RomanCatholics have an excuse for all these, some "rational argument" for each liturgical or theological blasphemy that they introduce.
@@sti4493 What? its not blasephemy and literally eucharistic miracles have happened for Catholic Holy communion I myself have felt the oneness with Christ from taking the unleavened Catholic communion. If it was blasephmy these miracles ought to not have happened nor should I have felt that oneness. Also its supposed to be unleavened bread since the Eucharist is parralleling the Old testament Passover oh and Jesus used unleavened bread. ALso Christ is not present in the yeast since its only once the bread has been fully formed does the preist do the prayer over the Eucharist
@@sti4493 by the way, they completely took out wine from their communion? Or they take it separately from bread?
@@vereskovy_miod Yes, completely. Their "rationale" is that the body contains blood also, e.g. if you cut meat it is red due to small blood vessels permeating it. Thus the blood is redundant, they say, since it is contained in the body anyways.
They are in effect saying the Lord was wrong for using wine in the Eucharist, He was being redundant and inefficient.
Btw, sharing bread and drinking wine from a chalice was a ritual from the Old Testament, which adherents of Judaism perform to this day. It was this ritual that our Lord upgraded into the Supper and the Eucharist, signifying that the wine/bread of the old ritual were "types" (foreshadowing) of His blood and body. Christian (ie. Orthodox) liturgical life is in total continuity with the Old Testament, and the Eucharist is being performed with both bread and wine, from the days of the Old Testament till the Second Coming, and beyond that, since Divine Liturgy will be held in Heaven too.
Hey Kyle, I was wondering if you could make a video that focuses on the resurrection of Christ and the evidence for it.
I will cover in the future, but check out these videos:
1. th-cam.com/video/FT4Cj-Pi4m0/w-d-xo.html
2 .th-cam.com/video/cz201Od_Xe4/w-d-xo.html
3. th-cam.com/video/B8fKZ9QyHH4/w-d-xo.html
lmk if you have any other questions!
What about St Faustina Kowalska’s purgatory visions? I mean I know she’s not recognized by the Orthodox Church but what are your thoughts about it?
Visions are complicated. We can’t either prove is from God or not… unless there is proof/evidence of it. Which we can’t have in this life. The problem is that the reasons pointed by catholics of why there is a purgatory doesn’t add up…
Dude, I've been trying to find an icon like that (at 2:15) for many years but have not run into any sites that have it. I think I especially like that one. Do you happen to know who sells it?
Any Christian Orthodox Church has saints icons but some less renowned Saints icons are available in monasteries
Eyy, we agree on the resurrection and glorified bodies.
Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life. (Rev 21:27)
The Scapular used to be a Novicial Habit for Monastics. It was a poncho.
Bring back the Novice's Poncho.
Here is the thing... If we both agree that a state of cleansing exists then we know that the souls undergo that type of "smelting" to be purified... Its not just venial sins but if a person has an imperfection let's say they went to confession and are forgiven of sin but still feels attached that could warrant that they could sin again... and the rosary is NOT a get out of purgatory free card. The virgin Mary asked us to pray the rosary - FOR HER SON. And the scapular doesn't reduce time in purgatory it warrants that God will grant graces through Mary that a person would be saved - which means purgatory after death until fully purified. These are not innovations just because these became "added dogmas" never meant that they were not true - and we focus a lot on the sacraments and the church fathers and scripture... Most people do focus on Mary (not always purgatory), she always points to her son when you go to her, and NO ONE can ever love Mary more than Christ did. Edit: THE WESTERN RITE IN UNION WITH MOSCOW AND ANTIOCH PRAY THE ROSARY TOO!
WR shouldn't as it's post schism by a man who isn't considered a Saint. We have the Prayer Rule of the Theotokos instead.
Hi, I am new to Christianity (I was raised agnostic by former Catholics), and I was wondering what happens to those who lived by Jesus' teachings yet rejected him as a God or Son of God, because I know many great people who rejected this idea and have since passed including my formerly Catholic Grandmother who my family rejected last rights for as they believed that she no longer believed in God (I cannot confirm of deny), I remember being angry about this even though I was not yet religious because of Pascal's Wager (I did not yet know the name for this idea). Is there any hope for her and others like her? Note: I understand that Orthodoxy is mystical by nature and you may not be able to answer this question but I would appreciate any response regardless.
Yes. Your prayers can help them if you were to be Orthodox since we believe in possibility of improving state of the departed before final judgment take place. I am not sure as to how it works if one who prays for the departed loved ones is not Orthodox. Sorry.
Good job at this and pointing out the wacky innovations of Catholicism. Most people think oh same thing.
Purgatory has always been a thought in the first 300 years so try again
A good book that explains orthodox beliefs and is difference to other christian denominations?
Orthodoxy is not a denomination, it is pre-denominational.. Catholics (Rome) split off in 1054, they caused the schism. If you are a Protestant the SINGLE best book you can read is Rock & Sand by Fr Josiah Trentham.. Check out my other videos (refuting Catholicism & Protestantism). And my Best Orthodox Christian books videos, God bless!
Then one of the seraphim flew to me with a burning coal in his hand, which he had taken from the altar with tongs. And he touched my mouth with it and said, “Behold, this has touched your lips; and your iniquity is taken away, and your sin is atoned for (Isaiah 6:6-7)
What is the orthodox view on ghost and the paranormal?
Make a video explaining the immaculate conception
th-cam.com/users/shortsSWRTIeheYPY
Hey Kyle you uploaded a video yesterday and I wanted to send it to a friend but could not find it. Do you have it uploaded somewhere else?
here: rumble.com/v2gumgg-dennis-prager-promotes-prn.html
I recently watched, on TH-cam, a talk from a Greek priest saying that when we die, according to the Orthodox church of course and the Fathers, we only get a feeling of what hell and paradise really are. We will experience paradise, in full, once we get our bodies back after Jesus returns.
He also gave an example: Think of it as if a King sends you a letter to attend his celebrations. The letter invites you to that feast, but you don't know exactly when it will take place. The fact that you are invited is enough, for now, to make you happy. This is a sense of paradise.
Now consider receiving a call to attend to a trial. Again, you don't know when but you know that at some point you will have to show up in front of the judge. That is a sense of hell.
Nonetheless, we strongly believe that if you pray for the deceased ones, they can be saved by the grace of God.
What's that song at the end? I always forget its name.
Can anybody tell me what is the intro chant name?
th-cam.com/video/aDnePMLVpCE/w-d-xo.html
Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny (Matthew 5:26)
Why do Orthodox reject Purgatory? Simple answer is that it’s in western tradition but not eastern tradition. Orthodox might claim that there is sparse evidence for Purgatory but then embrace Toll Houses which is sparsely mentioned in scripture as well. They are like to quote Serphim Rose but forget that Catholics can quote their saints too.
It is much more complex than that. I explained it in the video.. Purgatory is something that evolved after the schism, lots of practices revolve around it... Toll Houses was taught and Serphim Rose was just re stating what those before him taught. Check out my other videos on Catholicism. God bless!
I reject purgatory because the Bible is clear that Jesus Christ took upon all the hell “purgatory” on himself and cleansed us of our sins through his sacrifice. Through our acceptance of him, that hell is lifted off our shoulders. There is no need for purgatory. Jesus took that suffering for us. Good video man!
Also man, thank you for talking about Mary and how the Catholic Church takes Mary and Saints to a whole other level. The Saints and Mary never wanted to take anything away from our Lord Jesus! God bless 🙏🏼☦️🤙🏼
Alliluia Christ is King of kings and Lord of lords
☦
Is the track at the end from the St Sergius Lavra?
From this th-cam.com/video/OLsSan9koAU/w-d-xo.html
Good video, but brother It’s (They-o-tokos) not (thee-o-tokos) saying the ladder in Greek means Uncle birth giver not One who births God
How would you pray for a dead loved one who was an unbeliever?
same way, Ask for God's mercy/ talk to Priest about this
Hey Kyle - what happened to that Dennis Praeger vid?! Thanks.
it got age restricted so I just took it down. I don't want to get a strike
@@OrthodoxKyle YT is crazy. Was a good video!
And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more. (Luke 12:47-48)
I still don’t understand.What’s the difference between dying then suffering in the Purgatory for a while vs dying and suffering in hell for a while?
Catholics believe in 3 places: heaven, hell, purgatory.. There is only 2 places... Purgatory teaches that there is a temporal punishment for sins that have even been forgiven... Read these: orthodoxinfo.com/death/stmark_purg.aspx & stjohndc.org/en/orthodoxy-foundation/purgatory-and-indulgences & www.saintjohnchurch.org/prayer-for-the-dead/ they explain
❤☦💀🔥
Whats up with Russian orthodox and the “toll houses”?
I have a question sort of related to this video. Roman Catholics believe in the Virgin Mary as "co-redemptrix", that Mary was partially responsible for our salvation, like how Jesus was and is responsible for our eternal salvation. As far as my knowledge goes, Orthodox completely reject this teaching, however if they outright reject this, how do you explain the numerous hymns and prayers to the Theotokos that seem to clearly teach that Mary IS the co-redemptrix? For example, there's this one hymn sang during Matins on Christmas Day after the ninth ode "O my soul, magnify the ever-virgin Maid who from the curse has redeemed us." That, to me, sounds like this hymn is praising the Theotokos as co-redemptrix. Can someone please explain? Help will be much appreciated. God Bless!
In short, presuppositions matter and make the difference. But as you say, ‘co-redemptrix’ is not the Orthodox understanding, so we know such hymnography is not attesting to that. Without the mind of the Church on this-the correct presuppositions-such an error could certainly be made. It would not be very different from one with a Protestant outlook seeing veneration of icons as ‘idolatry’ and ‘worshipping dead men.’ They are reading wrongly into it from a false starting point.
I suppose one could also hear “Through the prayers of our Holy Fathers, oh Jesus Christ our God, have mercy on us and save us,” and start divining that the Saints are ‘co-mediators’ between God and man. But the Orthodox know that’s not the right idea, not the meaning of the One Mediation or the prayers offered on our behalf.
Now of course our Lady has a unique role in the work of Christ and a special place even among the great Saints as the Mother of God-the Ark of the New Covenant-so the honor paid to her reflects the reality with suitably strong language. As to that particular ode I think it can be viewed in context of the first and second Eve. Just as the first played an integral part in bringing about the curse through disobedience, the second played an integral part in bringing about our redemption from it through her obedience. Obviously the scriptures and we all make much of the first and second Adam because the meaning of all history is the Incarnation; though that does not nullify the other; as a matter of historical fact, the one does not happen without the other.
But Christ is the only salvation. This we know and affirm. Christ is why we honor the Virgin Mother. Christ is why we venerate icons. Christ is why we ask for intercession of the Saints. Christ is why we live. Christ is all in all, together with the Father and the Holy Spirit.
No Mary is not a co-redemtrix. That idea is rejected by the Roman Catholic Church and even by the current pope. There are certain catholics who like the idea, but it's never been a doctrine of the church.
@@eikon7001 Thank you for replying
@@Richie_roo knowing the trend in catholicism, and how the immaculate conception came to be. This co redemptrix idea will probably become a doctrine
I just recently became Catholic, but I've never heard of buying indulgences or praying the rosary for decreased time in purgatory. I've always seen the rosary as another form of prayer. Also, I have a buddy who wears a scapular; however, I've heard that it basically gets you into heaven. I have questioned him about it cause it doesn't make sense to wear this thing and basically have a get out of jail free card. The information in this video is very interesting!
The message of suffering and penitence only reveals Mary’s role as Queen of Heaven. These intense messages given to children demonstrate not only the purpose of suffering but Mary’s authority and majesty.
Hello Kyle! I was hoping you'd reply to a comment I made about 3 months ago on this video. If you wouldn't mind doing so I'd like to hear your thoughts on it.
I did not see it. I responded. God bless!
He also took up a collection from all his men, totaling about four pounds of silver, and sent it to Jerusalem to provide for a sin offering. Judas did this noble thing because he believed in the resurrection of the dead. If he had not believed that the dead would be raised, it would have been foolish and useless to pray for them. In his firm and devout conviction that all of God's faithful people would receive a wonderful reward, Judas made provision for a sin offering to set free from their sin those who had died. (2 Maccabees 12: 43-46)
Brother, I need help. Can you PLEASE do a video about the Sabbath about its controversy🙏🏻🥺? Every single protestant spits in catholic's and orthodox's face cuz we keep the Holy day at Sunday. 😔
I already covered this in my Messianic Judaism Debunked video.... They are Judaizing the faith if they have it on Saturday.. SUNDAY is the Lord's day! www.saintjohnchurch.org/sabbath-sunday-eighth-day/ & www.oca.org/questions/teaching/sabbath
Weird to hear that. Never saw a Protestant agains the Holy day being Sunday
What about toll booths in orthodox
Well now im VERY afraid of the 40 days...
Are Toll houses a true doctrine? I’ve seen much controversy about them.
It is indeed a heavily controversial issue nowadays, because a famous bishop Puhalo started denying the historic teaching. But he was silenced. It’s part of the Orthodox Tradition, in the prayers we pray at home, prayers of the church in our divine services, in the writings of saints and church fathers. If you want to read a tome about toll houses, i recommend the master edition by Saint Anthony’s Greek Orthodox Monastery in Arizona. You can read “The Soul after death” by Fr Seraphim Rose. Or to have a basic introduction you can read “Eternal Mysteries Beyond the Grave”. The Toll house doctrine is part of the Orthodox Churches beliefs, a modern saint scholar and theologian Saint Justin Popovich included the teaching in his dogmatic theology book. And if you read “Orthodox Dogmatic Theology” by Fr Michael Pomozansky, he also teaches it as a true doctrine. The denial of the toll houses either comes from people who are uneducated on the doctrine and the history, are either scared and react in an extreme manner so as to deny it, or they are modernists who suggest it’s heretical, gnostic or a “western influence”. You will see that most of the toll house deniers spend most of their time online rather than in Church where they can hear the doctrine in virtually every prayer we say in Church, especially at the feast of the Dormition of the Theotokos.
Their really isn't much controversy. They are real, but the details surrounding them are not well understood. Some think it is methaphorical others think it is literal. Eitherway the point is what happens is real.
Today they would want your soul..
Says Jesus Christ for the rich man in the parable...
The toll house theory has not been accepted by the ancient Church Fathers, but only by some contemporary authors and translators have adopted this theory. Translators that have this belief translate the works of ancient Fathers and take them out of context to try and prove their own philosophy.
In fact Saint Paul was not speaking about toll houses in Ephesians 6:12-13. What he was talking about was wrestling with the demons. There is no wrestling in the after life but only in this life and this is manifested in temptations and trials that are brought about by the demonic powers.
God is the judge not the demons. God does not need the help of the demons in order to execute His authority.
@@PatrickS34751 in tbe parable of the rich man..The Lord said _ today they would want your soul... What you understand there?
Interesting
As a Catholic, I wanted to thank you for taking the time to share your understanding of why the Orthodox reject the doctrine of purgatory. I found your video to be very informative. However, I must say that some of the claims made against Catholics here are simply untrue. The scapular discussion is the clearest example. In both the images you showed, it clearly states that Mary's promises were primarily about avoiding hell and that less "time" in purgatory was a secondary benefit. However, you immediately claim that the "focus is on purgatory." You also claim that the Rosary's main focus is on purgatory, but it is actually a contemplative tool we use to wonder at the mysteries of Christ's life. None of the basic prayers (Hail Mary, Our Father, Glory Be, Apostles Creed, common Concluding Prayer) or most common additions (O My Jesus, Prayer to St. Michael, Memorare, Hail Holy Queen) even mention purgatory or the souls therein
I also noticed that much of your objection is rooted in a misunderstanding of the RCC's teachings on purgatory. You mention several times that your experience as a Catholic was preoccupied with avoiding purgatory, and you rightly say that legalism is a potential cause for one's unhealthy preoccupation on this topic. However, just because one or several Catholics may be legalistic in this regard does not mean that legalism is at the heart of the RCC's teachings on purgatory
Consider what we actually believe. We believe that the human soul operates with both intellect and will. Faith is an assent of both the intellect ("I believe") and the will (loving God and neighbor). Purgatory flows as a natural consequence of the intersection of God's justice and mercy in His encounter with a soul who accepts mercy (intellect) but who nonetheless struggled with some habit of sin all the way up to the moment of death (will). We do not believe that there are repentant souls in hell begging to be welcomed into God's presence but who are rejected by God. Instead, we believe that God desires all His children to be united with Him. On the other hand, loving us fully, He respects our freedom and allows us to reject Him in time and in eternity. In life, when we sin, we damage our wills by weakening our holy habits - the virtues - and cultivating evil habits - vices - that arise from the rebellious part of our fallen hearts that would refuse heaven for the sake of our pride (bonds of sin). Conversely, when we cooperate with grace and perform charitable deeds as a fruit of faith, especially sacrificial love, we mortify our sinful wills and are conformed more and more to His Will (the truth that sets us free) that desires union. As such, it can be said that every sin, even if it is not mortal, creates real damage to our souls in the same way that eating an unhealthy meal, overconsuming alcohol, or staying up all night sets our bodies back if we were training for a marathon (it's fitting that St. Paul compares his faith life to an athlete). It's not enough that God forgives because He will not impose Himself on an unwilling soul. Hell is a prison cell that locks from the inside, so reconciliation requires rehabilitation (or "temporal punishment") of the singer's will after the "I forgive you" has been intellectually accepted. And every good deed that is a fruit of faith exercises a weak and wounded will and prepares the soul for unification with God ("love covers a multitude of sins"). As such, every single moral choice in our faith lives matters because every sin causes damage that needs to be healed - not just forgiven - and every prayer (including Rosaries), work of mercy, devotion (including wearing a scapular), etc. weakens the rebellion that would choose hell over Him. And when we think of our lives in these terms, of course the topics of heaven, hell, and purgatory are naturally going to come up a lot in our homilies, prayers, devotional items, etc. Saying that Catholics spend too much time talking about purgatory is like saying we spend too much talking about living rightly with God in hopes of heaven (after all, every soul in purgatory is assured of their salvation). I'm sorry that in your experience with other Catholics that this perspective may not have been adequately conveyed or taught, but this is the teaching of the RCC
By the way, you and your viewers will be happy to know that we have not discussed indulgences in terms of days, months, or years for half a century because of exactly your point. "Time" is a funny thing when your incorporeal soul is operating apart from the body which operates within spacetime
1. I used to be Catholic, please watch my video Why I left Catholicism for Orthodoxy.
2. "made against Catholics here are simply untrue" I think this is a huge stretch because you are making it seem like I was lying.. I was just explaining my experience with Rosary & Brown Scapular.. And I also showed on screen the underlying theology. Purgatory is a huge focus.. are you denying that? I am just saying the whole point of something like the brown scapular is to insure that you will have no time in purgatory and one of the requirements is praying the rosary daily (which I used to do).
3. "Catholics may be legalistic in this regard does not mean that legalism is at the heart of the RCC's teachings on purgatory" well yes, this is why in the video I cited exactly what the RCC teaches... and it matches with my experience of being around Catholics.
4. "Purgatory flows as a natural consequence of the intersection of God's justice and mercy" I don't think it does... Purgatory was not taught in the first 1000 years.. it was a post-schism invention and makes 0 sense with pre-schism theology.. For example, the Harrowing of Hades... Jesus did not go to Purgatory also? there is only Heaven & hell. Where is the pastristic evidence for a third place? biblical evidence?
5.Just show me the evidence in the Church Father & Bible. AND please watch my other videos on Catholicism.
God bless!
Purgatory is dangerous because it claims that sin is an affront to God's sense of justice. That is why all sin must be punished. The Orthodox view sin as something that keeps you away from God. If we want to be with God, we have to be like God in his nature. "God became man, so man can become god" (in his nature).