How did Res Arcana not make the list? I thought for sure Zee would mention it. It uses the same five elements. It's combo-tastic. Shocked, I say. Shocked!
Totally agree! With the expansions and drafting, it’s really competitive and unforgiving with great decision space! One of few games that is as great at 2 as 5 players (but different experiences)
Zee was under the impression that Magic players tend toward wacky and bombastic designs. And that’s somewhat true, that’s why Seasons was a better choice.
Zee explains why he didn't include it at 1:04:52. "I think it's too...small? Too dry? It's too euro. I really like it, and I thought of it too, but I thought it's, like, even smaller Mindbug, if that makes sense, with all the flavour pulled out of it. I like it a lot, but in Res Arcana, you have a deck of, like, eight cards, or ten cards, that's all."
All LCG(I got 'em all), coop and/or competitive, gives me MTG scratch even tho they're not on same game mechanic, theme and/or setting, esp Android: Netrunner. That said here are the list of games that I think some MTG(and other TCG/CCG) player will like; Call of Cthulhu LCG Star Wars LCG Warhammer Invasion LCG Warhammer 40000 Conquest LCG Android Netrunner LCG A Game of Thrones Second Edition LCG Legend of the Five Rings LCG Marvel Champions LCG Lord of the Rings LCG Arkham Horror LCG Sentinels of the Multiverse Sentinels of the Earth-Prime BattleCON Exceed Ashes Summoner Wars Mage Wars Arena Guardians Doomtown Reloaded Unmatched Radlands Mage Knight Spirit Island Millennium Blades Wiz-War (FFG) Then again, it's just a matter of personal taste.
You cannot categorize "magic players". I just realized it while watching. I am a board game geek as well as a magic player and you should distinguish between different kinds of players: - commander players - drafters
I have a commander cube, so apparently, I am both of your types... really, though there are a lot of different archetypes of magic players. You could recommend games based on the psychographic (Timmy, Johnny, and Spike) and aesthetic (Vorthos and Melvon) profile groupings and that does not even get into the different formats that approach being different games using the same game pieces and similar rules.
I highly recommend Ashes Reborn. You can construct great decks if you want, or just use the pre-constructed ones. Guaranteed to get the cards you want if you buy the expansions Great at 2 players Great solo
In many ways the “Dan Dan” game that has become popular within the magic community is a separate mind bug-esque two player card game that happens to use magic cards.
Just an FYI from someone who plays a decent amount of Magic - yes there are still a lot of competitive Magic tournaments.... but Commander (or EDH), IS the most popular format.
Actually it probably isn't. I keep having to correct people on this, but by FAR the most popular way to play Magic nowadays is via Arena/computer. WOTC said something along the lines of more games being played per month on Arena than have been played in the entirety of magic history in physical cards. And by FAR the most popular format is best of 1 Standard. So while I agree that the most popular format for physical magic is Commander, the most popular format is Standard by a fair way.
@@moocowp4970 So your evidence is that they said "Hey guys trust us our product is doing super well." and if what you reference is true to what they said they somehow calculated the number of magic games that have been played during the last 30 years which they would need actual magic to accomplish. I'm not saying you're wrong but coming in with the "um, actually" and insinuating this is something you do on the regular with so little to actually go on just seems like a really dumb thing to do. Also you don't think if WotC put Commander in Arena its player base wouldn't form a similar ratio as physical Magic? Standard isn't popular digitally it's just the only format available (officially) digitally. Sorry if I'm coming off a bit aggressive here I just think what you're doing is annoying.
I gotta give it to BattleCon. The depth, asymmetric fighter design, and sheer variety make it a much more appealing game than Dice Throne and Unmatched.
@@frankli4018 Same for Argent: the Consortium and Empyreal: Spells and Steam. Level99 Games gets slept on quite a bit. It was great to see Millennium Blades on the list.
@@namelessfire yeah, L99 is an amazing team. Just idea that they made DBD:Boardgame that, in my opinion, is BETTER in using its IP then original game is awesome. And all their others games are very good too - Noir, BattleCon, Exceed, Millennium Blades, AC, Pixel Tactics, Bullet. Definetly one of companies that I always happy to see on a cover, they DO BE COOKING.
@@namelessfireI like Sakura Arms by them too. I’ve played it with multiple people and they don’t like the first game just picking it up. But play it twice and you see the depth to it.
Cosmic Encounter has phases, hand management, wacky powers, weird interactions, politicking... so many things that should make MTG players feel at home.
Yes, but the game at its core is a negotiation game, something that isn't present in MtG in the slightest. I get that on the surface it has some similarities, but they are really nothing alike when it comes to gameplay.
@GrandElemental have you played Commander? The heavy negotiation present in commander is why I don't like it. But it's currently the most popular magic the gathering format.
@GrandElemental I said "politicking" and said that it was one of the things that should make MTG players feel at home. So yes I did factor in that Cosmic Encounter is negotiation at its heart and that is one of many reasons why MTG players can enjoy it.
@@jakebless5061 I played a single match and immediately understood it is not for me. I like how fast MtG is, commander can be super slow because of the added randomness and larger health pool, so I was not a fan. I have no idea how it includes negotiation though, we just played a normal head-to-head game with 100 card commander deck instead of the standard one.
@@GrandElemental makes sense. Commander is a multiplayer format not designed for head to head. So it's designed to me played with 4 players, non teams, so the politicking comes in to play pretty heavy. The things you mentioned regarding your commander experience also play into why it's not a format for me as well. But cosmic encounter is a decent representation of a game commander players may enjoy
I have played lots of Magic over the years, so when I got into board gaming, these are the games that made me think of Magic.. 1) Summoner Wars 2) Mage Wars 3) Codex 4) Shards of Infinity 5) Warhammer Underworlds 6) Dice Throne 7) Ascension Tactics 8) Res Arcana 9) Seasons 10) Aristeia
I am 100% on Tom's side with Challengers! On its surface, there is little decision space in Challengers, however, there is a lot to think about in the game. Building your deck can be VERY strategic, and finding the right synergies can make your deck unstoppable. Cards like the Vampire or Reporter require you to think while playing and have the added benefit of taking some of the luck out of the card draw. Roy is doing himself a HUGE disservice by being so close minded about this game. If you are looking for a light party game that will engage Magic players with some strategic deck building, I highly recommend Challengers!
@@dejavu_d I could see the point, but if Summoner Wars and Marvel Champs are in the list, Ashes is in the same vein tbh. Just surprises me Roy didn't included it bc I though it really likes it, but it's a just for fun top10, no worries about this.
I've played on the MTG Pro Tour and I adore Challengers! It is the most pure distillation of how important card and archetype choices are to a single tournament metagame. No strategic choices my ass. 😆
MTG used to be a lifestyle game for me. So, of the lists... Roy's list has 4 games that I like. Zee's list has 5 games that I like. Tom's list has 1 game that I like. Zee wins!
Why would a MTG player be interested in a game that is similar to MTG but isn't MTG. Doesn't make sense! When MTG players turn to board games then to experience something different than what MTG offers. I'm a MTG player since the 90s and I dislike most board games that are too similar to MTG. Sure, some familiar mechanics are nice, like drafting and triggered effects and such, especially when they are used in a new way or in a new environment. But all those games that try to resemble a TCG/CCG or a simplified version of MTG are awful, including "Millennium Blades" or the abysmal "Challengers" which simulate competitive TCG tournaments. What's fairly ok-ish are games like "Wiz-War" or "Summoner Wars" because they are different by adding a 2D board and other stuff.
The games they listed weren't MTG clones packaged as board games. This was more of a, "Do you like this aspect of MTG? Then you might like this board game."
The irony that we spend more money in boardgames than magic is not that bad when you think we get to play more than just one game... we are still hipocrates though 🤣 I would totally add Smash Up mainly for the hand management aspect and "minion" powers. Also, I agree with Roy on Champions but I would have mentioned LoTR LCG instead 😅
You guys missed out on Quest for El Dorado. It's my gaming group's go-to deckbuilding game. And we are all Magic players. Plus it's a game that everyone can easily play and enjoy.
As a former MTG player, the following board games have scratched my itch to the point where I have no motivation to play Magic again: 1. Millennium Blades (MTG prerelease in a box) 2. Res Arcana (MTG in euro form) 3. Star Realms (simple dueling game for two people) 4. Watergate (dueling, counterspell wars) 5. Cosmic Encounter (replaced commander) I don’t like Radlands, but I recognize it’s a solid pick for scratching the MTG itch, too.
@@joeferreti9442 Well, I have to vehemently disagree given that I found these games so good and interesting that I gave up Magic the Gathering. For context, I played Magic every day for six years. I played SCG opens, Legacy, Modern, and commander for hours upon hours a day. After just a few months playing board games (such as these), I have no need to play Magic again.
A bit surprised that „Tyrants of the Underdark“ is not on any of the lists. And I would have expected that Zee will put “Pagan: Fate of Roanoke” on his list as well.
As a former recreational MTG player one game which helped me bridge the gap between board games was Frosthaven. This game incorporated card strategy with lore and storyline while getting me invested in map exploration. It also had several enhancement cards (eg items) which felt like artifacts and enchantments. Plus the ability to retire and start new characters mid game felt a lot like being able to play different decks. At risk of being offensive, the recommendations for games in this video did not really jump out to me. It seems like you guys know how to play MTG and deck building, but do not really understand why people enjoy the game itself. There is more to the game than just combos, cards and deck building. Like many game enthusiasts, MTG players enjoy artwork, lore, world building and the fun of favorite cards.
Roy Cannaday list is my favourite. As a former MTG player, I’ve 8 of is list of games and my number one would be Wizard Wars, no doubt. All the best :)
EARTH. Having played it so much lately, I recognize the significance of color powers, building permanents with combo-ing effects. And BLATANT MtG card references in some of the cards ("Badlands" etc.) The designer, Maxime often mentions MtG in his describing of the game too.
Earth was my first thought also - less so about the references, but for the way the combos work, and how you have to strategise your placement to allow for effective queueing.
My friends and I really like: Fantasy Realms for a light combo game. Dominion and Hero Realms for deckbuilding and such. Sentinels of the Multiverse for unique decks and some co-op. Epic card game for some drafting and Magic feeling without having to bring our own decks, but since I made my Cube we would rather draft that instead. I have some other deck builders with my favorite being Dominion for pure deckbuilding, but Lost Ruins of Arnak is a bit heavy in the Euro stuff but I also like Euros so it works and my friends like it too. We use to play 7 Wonders a lot but got bored with it. It's still an amazing drafting game and would recommend it to anyone that loves to draft Magic. I would also pur Heat Petal to the Metal on a list for hand and deck management. I don't really play many games that use the mechanic as I tend to only keep one of a type of game in my collection to avoid bloat, except deckbuilding since the group loves it so much.
Love you Roy, but couldn't disagree more on Challengers. I admit it takes some getting used to that the part of the game that we would normally associate with "playing the game" is, in fact, NOT where playing the game happens. But idk how you can think the decisions around whether you take 1 card from the higher level or 2 from the lower, when you can start to cut cards, how often do you run 1 or 2 "too many" cards and risk busting aren't meaningful and strategic. Theres FAR more game in the box than it gets credit for
I don't have a straight line to draw to magic other than deck building and fantasy theme but as a decade and a half long magic player, Aeon's End really really clicked with me. Obviously deckbuilding felt good, also I enjoyed how challenging and thoughtful it is. And because it was mentioned, I did actually really enjoy Smash Up, although I haven't played it in years at this point so I'd suggest people get the starter box and maybe one or two expansions, not all of it like I did lol
Marvel Champions is a great pick for something that feels like MTG. The heroes are like a Commander that comes with a 15 card deck of unique abilities. And, the aspects are like picking one mana color to play.
I'm really surprised not to see Eternal: Chronicles of the Throne here. It's basically Magic: the Gathering if it was a deckbuilder (as opposed to deck construction). You've got creatures that attack and block, spells you can cast, and even relics that act like persistent artifacts or enchantments. It even has five different factions with their own colors, identities, and synergies. The Gold & Steel expansion adds a second hidden market for each player plus a new resource to buy cards and a new type of card that's very similar to MtG Auras or Equipment. It's also quite cheap and there's only the base game and the one expansion so you don't have to deal with storing and playing with hundreds of cards. It's honestly very solid!
Its kinda funny, because its based around Eternal game on PC. That was inspired by Hearthstone that was inspired by MTG. But yeah, E:CotT is definetly a MTG-like boardgame that pretty good :)
I really don't think this list hits the brief very well. It's missing Ashes: RotP, Black Rose Wars, Codex, Dice Masters, Mage Wars, Shards of Infinity.
Before I watch, here’d be mine (no particular order). Innovation, Res Arcana, Summoner Wars, Radlands, Agricola, Unmatched, Paper Tales, Air Land & Sea, Hadrian’s Wall, Race for the Galaxy.
Fun lists from a very enfranchised magic the gathering player :) As a note to the discussion re: multiplayer. Per Rosewater Commander is the most played format even above "kitchen table (formatless)" which is absolutely wild. Challengers is a terrific pick by Tom. I find this game really captures the feel of a pre-release! My top few in no particular order would be: Radlands, Challengers, Ascension and Milennium Blades. All games I've used w/ mtg players to hook into a boardgame night :).
Interesting that Tom put seasons and vale of eternity on the list. Every time I teach vale of eternity people tell me it feels like Seasons. Also grid drafting magic is so fun!
I feel like Radlands is better than Magic. Especially with the expansion on the horizon. No net decking. Just pure skill in maximizing your turn. Tight resource management with no possibility to get mana screwed.
I always sort of thought that Smash Up scratched a little bit of my Magic the Gathering itch. Combos and timing play a big role in being successful, which were skills I really needed in MTG!
Hey! Tom mentioned a “two card race for the galaxy” never heard of this is it a variant I’m guessing? Love race and would love to know what it is please Tom share the secret 😂
Former mtg player. I enjoy Dungeon Mayhem even though it's light and I have a bunch of friends who never played mtg who enjoy it. It does get old after a while.
Carnival of monsters is a game design by Richard Garfield and it as a lot of magic elements . Really an underappreciate game , recommend it if you can find a cheap copy ( think it’s out of print ) Set collection/drafting
Two suggestions that weren't on anyone's lists: Carnival of Monsters (It's a Drafting game by Richard Garfield with great art and uses lands to play Monsters, all very Magic things) and Sorcerer by Wise Wizard Games. You have some deck construction (you shuffle together a Sorcerer a domain and a type of Magic), combos and synergies and that head to head feeling.
Yeah Tom never gave Ashes a chance. When he reviewed it he said “Do we really need another dice game?” Totally missed the boat on that one and probably only played it once before reviewing it.
this is only true if you started mtg 20+ years ago or more, and got cards at release for very cheap that got incredibly expensive years/decades later and made a nice profit by sheer dumb luck. otherwise, anyone joining mtg today will have a completly different experience in this regard, in this time and age cards lose value constantly, almost with every passing day
I like how the 3 of them took different approaches and honed in on the different types of experiences that people look for in MTG. For, example, as someone who likes drafting and playing limited in Magic, I probably would go towards games like the deckbuilders or the more tactical hand management style games. The multiplayer "politics" games are NOT AT ALL what I would want from Magic, but I understand why something like Cosmic Encounter would appeal to commander players.
Just play whatever game and add a rule where sometimes if you don’t draw the right cards you just can’t play the game, Magic players will feel right at home.
I created a variant of Magic that eliminates land entirely. Better in every way, except that decks must be built specifically for the format, since all spells that deal with land are excluded.
I've found that decks built with a mathematical foundation don't really have this problem. It's the greedy decks that try to get by with 15/60 or 30/100 that have these games
@@beerman2000 I agree, players should play a responsible amount of lands to avoid the issue. However it is still an incredibly dated mechanism, and the base economy of the game should not determine so many outcomes, either due to flood or screw. Magic deserves respect for being hugely influential in the board and card game space, but things have just moved passed it mechanically. I stand by my thought that if everything in gaming was the same but Magic didn’t exist, if it came up on Crowdsurfing they would rightfully rip it apart. Having a huge legacy covers a lot of flaws.
Wierd top 10. Why pick games that are anything like magic for this list? I am an avid player of both, but played MTG first. When i first got into board games i wanted to play games that were not that similar to magic. I played Arkham Horror, Mage Knight, Race for the Galaxy and Dominion. If i wanted to play a game similar to magic i would have just played Magic. I like Zee's list best for including games like Blood rage, cosmic encounter, and smallworld. Those are great picks.
As a magic the gathering player, apperently I need to get Vale of Eternity and Radlands. I typically like relatively easy to learn games because trying to teach magic is impossible, it is just so expansive now. So I have to have other games to bring to different types of people. I am looking for easy to learn games that have very deep strategy going on with basic rules. I like Roll over Race. I enjoy deck builders but I find Dominion lacks interaction (Star Realms and there is a deck building game inside my favourite MMO, ESO called Tales of Tribute I like). Interesting that there were quite a few dudes on a map games here, I suspect that because the secret information tends to be a big part of those games. I am supprised there isn't any Dune Imperium on here, I found that game something I wanted to play over and over to try out all the possible strategies.
I just passed the separator for #8 and my eardrums were kind of blown. A little turning down of the volume would be welcome in the future. ;-) EDIT: The #7 separator was also a bit too loud, although the music wasn’t as intense.
King of the Tabletop is another game that influenced Garfield when designing Magic. It's where he got the idea for various creatures requiring certain "habitats" to be summoned into. A swamp is needed for the swampy monsters, for instance. As old as that game is... and the production is basically paper and thin cardboard... which makes sense, since it was a game you cut out of a magazine (Dragon Magazine)... I'd still happily play it. Fun game for its day.
I have played a lot of MtG, and sometimes resume this hobby. But when I play other board/card games, I do not look for things that are similar to MtG, quite the opposite. Rather games for other kinds of people and other windows of time. Things that scratch different itches.
Great lists! As a very heavy magic player, my top favorite games are Smash Up, Small World, Gloomhaven, and Villainous and King of Tokyo. Last 2 defs feel like Commander.
Really fun video, good vibes. Can't say I have too many games in my collection (that aren't TCGs/ECGs) that I think are good bridges. Maybe some of the skirmish games? Maybe Kapow!, it's random but does have some cool combo engine elements...
![[TH] FS vs BME - VCT Ascension Pacific - Lower Bracket Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wnygqsR2Fig/mqdefault.jpg)
How did Res Arcana not make the list? I thought for sure Zee would mention it. It uses the same five elements. It's combo-tastic.
Shocked, I say. Shocked!
Totally agree! With the expansions and drafting, it’s really competitive and unforgiving with great decision space! One of few games that is as great at 2 as 5 players (but different experiences)
Zee was under the impression that Magic players tend toward wacky and bombastic designs. And that’s somewhat true, that’s why Seasons was a better choice.
Zee explains why he didn't include it at 1:04:52.
"I think it's too...small? Too dry? It's too euro. I really like it, and I thought of it too, but I thought it's, like, even smaller Mindbug, if that makes sense, with all the flavour pulled out of it. I like it a lot, but in Res Arcana, you have a deck of, like, eight cards, or ten cards, that's all."
Res Arcana is way too simple for a MTG player.
I think their point about it being very dry compared to Magic is fair though.
It boggles my mind that y'all didn't mention Codex: Card-time Strategy, Mage Wars, or Tyrants of the Underdark.
Yeah, but it always boggles my mind that people forget we only have ten slots! :)
@@thedicetowertechnically 30 slots
@@thedicetower what boggles my mind is that Mage Wars Arena was NOT a triple crossover at #1
Where’s spirit island? That game has helped fill the mtg void. Love the spirit variety.
Where’s Heroes of Land, Air and Sea? Long time Magic player, and to me this is as well thematic, as game mechanics, very close to the Magic world.
All LCG(I got 'em all), coop and/or competitive, gives me MTG scratch even tho they're not on same game mechanic, theme and/or setting, esp Android: Netrunner.
That said here are the list of games that I think some MTG(and other TCG/CCG) player will like;
Call of Cthulhu LCG
Star Wars LCG
Warhammer Invasion LCG
Warhammer 40000 Conquest LCG
Android Netrunner LCG
A Game of Thrones Second Edition LCG
Legend of the Five Rings LCG
Marvel Champions LCG
Lord of the Rings LCG
Arkham Horror LCG
Sentinels of the Multiverse
Sentinels of the Earth-Prime
BattleCON
Exceed
Ashes
Summoner Wars
Mage Wars Arena
Guardians
Doomtown Reloaded
Unmatched
Radlands
Mage Knight
Spirit Island
Millennium Blades
Wiz-War (FFG)
Then again, it's just a matter of personal taste.
Roy and Zee ragging on Tom right out of the gate was hilarious. Love these guys
The fact thay ASHES didnt make this list is wild
FACTS!!!
Too close to Magic, probably got excluded.
I’ve never once heard The Dice Tower even mention Ashes.
I’d rather just play MTG. And they address it right at the start. They excluded games that were too close or that had you on a treadmill.
@@philistineau I would very literally never rather play MTG.
You cannot categorize "magic players".
I just realized it while watching.
I am a board game geek as well as a magic player and you should distinguish between different kinds of players:
- commander players
- drafters
I have a commander cube, so apparently, I am both of your types... really, though there are a lot of different archetypes of magic players. You could recommend games based on the psychographic (Timmy, Johnny, and Spike) and aesthetic (Vorthos and Melvon) profile groupings and that does not even get into the different formats that approach being different games using the same game pieces and similar rules.
A true MTG player does almost all kinds of MTG formats.
I highly recommend Ashes Reborn.
You can construct great decks if you want, or just use the pre-constructed ones.
Guaranteed to get the cards you want if you buy the expansions
Great at 2 players
Great solo
In many ways the “Dan Dan” game that has become popular within the magic community is a separate mind bug-esque two player card game that happens to use magic cards.
Ashe's Reborn really should have been on this list, unless it's too close to magic?
Excellent game!
All the fun without the blind-buy frustrations
Definitely too close to Magic.
Just an FYI from someone who plays a decent amount of Magic - yes there are still a lot of competitive Magic tournaments.... but Commander (or EDH), IS the most popular format.
Actually it probably isn't. I keep having to correct people on this, but by FAR the most popular way to play Magic nowadays is via Arena/computer. WOTC said something along the lines of more games being played per month on Arena than have been played in the entirety of magic history in physical cards. And by FAR the most popular format is best of 1 Standard.
So while I agree that the most popular format for physical magic is Commander, the most popular format is Standard by a fair way.
@@moocowp4970 That is absolutely fair.
@@moocowp4970 So your evidence is that they said "Hey guys trust us our product is doing super well." and if what you reference is true to what they said they somehow calculated the number of magic games that have been played during the last 30 years which they would need actual magic to accomplish. I'm not saying you're wrong but coming in with the "um, actually" and insinuating this is something you do on the regular with so little to actually go on just seems like a really dumb thing to do. Also you don't think if WotC put Commander in Arena its player base wouldn't form a similar ratio as physical Magic? Standard isn't popular digitally it's just the only format available (officially) digitally.
Sorry if I'm coming off a bit aggressive here I just think what you're doing is annoying.
Most of what I see is people saying they only play the mode because they feel like they're being forced to, and that they actually loathe it.
I gotta give it to BattleCon. The depth, asymmetric fighter design, and sheer variety make it a much more appealing game than Dice Throne and Unmatched.
I rrally wish battlecon had more noriety
@@frankli4018 Same for Argent: the Consortium and Empyreal: Spells and Steam. Level99 Games gets slept on quite a bit. It was great to see Millennium Blades on the list.
@@namelessfire yeah, L99 is an amazing team. Just idea that they made DBD:Boardgame that, in my opinion, is BETTER in using its IP then original game is awesome. And all their others games are very good too - Noir, BattleCon, Exceed, Millennium Blades, AC, Pixel Tactics, Bullet. Definetly one of companies that I always happy to see on a cover, they DO BE COOKING.
@@namelessfireI like Sakura Arms by them too. I’ve played it with multiple people and they don’t like the first game just picking it up. But play it twice and you see the depth to it.
Cosmic Encounter has phases, hand management, wacky powers, weird interactions, politicking... so many things that should make MTG players feel at home.
Yes, but the game at its core is a negotiation game, something that isn't present in MtG in the slightest. I get that on the surface it has some similarities, but they are really nothing alike when it comes to gameplay.
@GrandElemental have you played Commander? The heavy negotiation present in commander is why I don't like it. But it's currently the most popular magic the gathering format.
@GrandElemental I said "politicking" and said that it was one of the things that should make MTG players feel at home. So yes I did factor in that Cosmic Encounter is negotiation at its heart and that is one of many reasons why MTG players can enjoy it.
@@jakebless5061 I played a single match and immediately understood it is not for me. I like how fast MtG is, commander can be super slow because of the added randomness and larger health pool, so I was not a fan. I have no idea how it includes negotiation though, we just played a normal head-to-head game with 100 card commander deck instead of the standard one.
@@GrandElemental makes sense. Commander is a multiplayer format not designed for head to head. So it's designed to me played with 4 players, non teams, so the politicking comes in to play pretty heavy. The things you mentioned regarding your commander experience also play into why it's not a format for me as well. But cosmic encounter is a decent representation of a game commander players may enjoy
I have played lots of Magic over the years, so when I got into board gaming, these are the games that made me think of Magic..
1) Summoner Wars
2) Mage Wars
3) Codex
4) Shards of Infinity
5) Warhammer Underworlds
6) Dice Throne
7) Ascension Tactics
8) Res Arcana
9) Seasons
10) Aristeia
Z is the funniest troll I have ever seen :) RG also told it in an interview :D
I am 100% on Tom's side with Challengers! On its surface, there is little decision space in Challengers, however, there is a lot to think about in the game. Building your deck can be VERY strategic, and finding the right synergies can make your deck unstoppable. Cards like the Vampire or Reporter require you to think while playing and have the added benefit of taking some of the luck out of the card draw. Roy is doing himself a HUGE disservice by being so close minded about this game. If you are looking for a light party game that will engage Magic players with some strategic deck building, I highly recommend Challengers!
No Ashes Reborn Roy? Man that's disappointing :(
No expandable card games on their lists
@@dejavu_d I could see the point, but if Summoner Wars and Marvel Champs are in the list, Ashes is in the same vein tbh. Just surprises me Roy didn't included it bc I though it really likes it, but it's a just for fun top10, no worries about this.
I let my mtg playing coworker try marvel dice throne and in a month he's bought every dice throne set.
MTG players always go all in, lol
I've played on the MTG Pro Tour and I adore Challengers! It is the most pure distillation of how important card and archetype choices are to a single tournament metagame. No strategic choices my ass. 😆
MTG used to be a lifestyle game for me. So, of the lists...
Roy's list has 4 games that I like.
Zee's list has 5 games that I like.
Tom's list has 1 game that I like.
Zee wins!
Voice of the People
If Marvel Champions makes the list, then Lord of the Rings LCG should too.
Summoner warsssssss!!!!!
Why would a MTG player be interested in a game that is similar to MTG but isn't MTG. Doesn't make sense!
When MTG players turn to board games then to experience something different than what MTG offers.
I'm a MTG player since the 90s and I dislike most board games that are too similar to MTG.
Sure, some familiar mechanics are nice, like drafting and triggered effects and such, especially when they are used in a new way or in a new environment.
But all those games that try to resemble a TCG/CCG or a simplified version of MTG are awful, including "Millennium Blades" or the abysmal "Challengers" which simulate competitive TCG tournaments.
What's fairly ok-ish are games like "Wiz-War" or "Summoner Wars" because they are different by adding a 2D board and other stuff.
The games they listed weren't MTG clones packaged as board games. This was more of a, "Do you like this aspect of MTG? Then you might like this board game."
The irony that we spend more money in boardgames than magic is not that bad when you think we get to play more than just one game... we are still hipocrates though 🤣
I would totally add Smash Up mainly for the hand management aspect and "minion" powers. Also, I agree with Roy on Champions but I would have mentioned LoTR LCG instead 😅
WIZARDS OF THE GRIMOIRE should be on the list!
As a magic player, I dont think anything scratches that itch except perhaps millenium blade but I have not played my copy just yet
You guys missed out on Quest for El Dorado. It's my gaming group's go-to deckbuilding game. And we are all Magic players. Plus it's a game that everyone can easily play and enjoy.
As a former MTG player, the following board games have scratched my itch to the point where I have no motivation to play Magic again:
1. Millennium Blades (MTG prerelease in a box)
2. Res Arcana (MTG in euro form)
3. Star Realms (simple dueling game for two people)
4. Watergate (dueling, counterspell wars)
5. Cosmic Encounter (replaced commander)
I don’t like Radlands, but I recognize it’s a solid pick for scratching the MTG itch, too.
"Millennium Blades", "Res Arcana" and "Star Realms" are laughable and uninteresting for a MTG player.
Holy Gatekeeping Batman!
thanks for this list.
@@joeferreti9442 Well, I have to vehemently disagree given that I found these games so good and interesting that I gave up Magic the Gathering. For context, I played Magic every day for six years. I played SCG opens, Legacy, Modern, and commander for hours upon hours a day. After just a few months playing board games (such as these), I have no need to play Magic again.
Tom, I think that you need to check the budget for that opening skit...
Carnival of Monsters? Res Arcana? How were these missed?
A bit surprised that „Tyrants of the Underdark“ is not on any of the lists. And I would have expected that Zee will put “Pagan: Fate of Roanoke” on his list as well.
Tom and Zee are ho-hum on Tyrants, unclear what Roy thinks of it
Picked up a copy of Tyrants second-hand a few months ago, and wow, is it incredible! Immediately printed up the fan expansion decks. It's so, so good.
Tyrants was literally the first game I thought of. I dont know if anyone at DT ever played it though.
@@Legitster Sam did.
Yeah, that's a good one. Deckbuilders as a genre tend to appeal to anyone who likes Limited in MTG.
As a former recreational MTG player one game which helped me bridge the gap between board games was Frosthaven. This game incorporated card strategy with lore and storyline while getting me invested in map exploration. It also had several enhancement cards (eg items) which felt like artifacts and enchantments. Plus the ability to retire and start new characters mid game felt a lot like being able to play different decks. At risk of being offensive, the recommendations for games in this video did not really jump out to me. It seems like you guys know how to play MTG and deck building, but do not really understand why people enjoy the game itself. There is more to the game than just combos, cards and deck building. Like many game enthusiasts, MTG players enjoy artwork, lore, world building and the fun of favorite cards.
Roy Cannaday list is my favourite. As a former MTG player, I’ve 8 of is list of games and my number one would be Wizard Wars, no doubt. All the best :)
EARTH.
Having played it so much lately, I recognize the significance of color powers, building permanents with combo-ing effects. And BLATANT MtG card references in some of the cards ("Badlands" etc.)
The designer, Maxime often mentions MtG in his describing of the game too.
Earth was my first thought also - less so about the references, but for the way the combos work, and how you have to strategise your placement to allow for effective queueing.
I think Blue Moon should have been on the list.
Marvel Champions is my top pick. Millenium Blades I imagine would be good.
Thumbs up for the @TolarianCommunityCollege citation. The Professor rules.
That would be a fun cross over
Is there a link to this "dice tower district"? I can't find it.
Here's the direct link. It'll get added to the video description and our LinkTree!
district.net/dicetower
My friends and I really like:
Fantasy Realms for a light combo game.
Dominion and Hero Realms for deckbuilding and such.
Sentinels of the Multiverse for unique decks and some co-op.
Epic card game for some drafting and Magic feeling without having to bring our own decks, but since I made my Cube we would rather draft that instead.
I have some other deck builders with my favorite being Dominion for pure deckbuilding, but Lost Ruins of Arnak is a bit heavy in the Euro stuff but I also like Euros so it works and my friends like it too.
We use to play 7 Wonders a lot but got bored with it. It's still an amazing drafting game and would recommend it to anyone that loves to draft Magic.
I would also pur Heat Petal to the Metal on a list for hand and deck management. I don't really play many games that use the mechanic as I tend to only keep one of a type of game in my collection to avoid bloat, except deckbuilding since the group loves it so much.
Glad to see roy guest feature a top 10
Love you Roy, but couldn't disagree more on Challengers. I admit it takes some getting used to that the part of the game that we would normally associate with "playing the game" is, in fact, NOT where playing the game happens. But idk how you can think the decisions around whether you take 1 card from the higher level or 2 from the lower, when you can start to cut cards, how often do you run 1 or 2 "too many" cards and risk busting aren't meaningful and strategic. Theres FAR more game in the box than it gets credit for
I don't have a straight line to draw to magic other than deck building and fantasy theme but as a decade and a half long magic player, Aeon's End really really clicked with me. Obviously deckbuilding felt good, also I enjoyed how challenging and thoughtful it is.
And because it was mentioned, I did actually really enjoy Smash Up, although I haven't played it in years at this point so I'd suggest people get the starter box and maybe one or two expansions, not all of it like I did lol
Marvel Champions is a great pick for something that feels like MTG. The heroes are like a Commander that comes with a 15 card deck of unique abilities. And, the aspects are like picking one mana color to play.
They said at the start they were excluding CCG's and TCG's, kind of weird to include LCG's.
I'm really surprised not to see Eternal: Chronicles of the Throne here. It's basically Magic: the Gathering if it was a deckbuilder (as opposed to deck construction). You've got creatures that attack and block, spells you can cast, and even relics that act like persistent artifacts or enchantments. It even has five different factions with their own colors, identities, and synergies. The Gold & Steel expansion adds a second hidden market for each player plus a new resource to buy cards and a new type of card that's very similar to MtG Auras or Equipment. It's also quite cheap and there's only the base game and the one expansion so you don't have to deal with storing and playing with hundreds of cards. It's honestly very solid!
Its kinda funny, because its based around Eternal game on PC. That was inspired by Hearthstone that was inspired by MTG.
But yeah, E:CotT is definetly a MTG-like boardgame that pretty good :)
Ashes Rise of the Pheonixborn
I really don't think this list hits the brief very well. It's missing Ashes: RotP, Black Rose Wars, Codex, Dice Masters, Mage Wars, Shards of Infinity.
Those are good choices. They did include Shards though.
Before I watch, here’d be mine (no particular order).
Innovation, Res Arcana, Summoner Wars, Radlands, Agricola, Unmatched, Paper Tales, Air Land & Sea, Hadrian’s Wall, Race for the Galaxy.
I wonder what Roy thinks of "Sentinels Of The Multiverse: Definitive Edition".
Why doesn't Optimus Prime have a head??
A homage to the 80's comics...?
MXPX for the win!
Fun lists from a very enfranchised magic the gathering player :)
As a note to the discussion re: multiplayer. Per Rosewater Commander is the most played format even above "kitchen table (formatless)" which is absolutely wild.
Challengers is a terrific pick by Tom. I find this game really captures the feel of a pre-release!
My top few in no particular order would be: Radlands, Challengers, Ascension and Milennium Blades. All games I've used w/ mtg players to hook into a boardgame night :).
Blood Rage!? Get outta here
Here's mine:
1.Radlands
2.Blood Rage
3.EPIC
4.Evolution (2 player)
5.Hero Realms
6.Strife: Legacy of the Eternals
7.Air, Land & Sea: Critters at War
8.Reinforcements
9.Seasons
10.Xenoshyft Onslaught
Interesting that Tom put seasons and vale of eternity on the list. Every time I teach vale of eternity people tell me it feels like Seasons. Also grid drafting magic is so fun!
Time stamps?
I was waiting the whole list for Roy's number one....even when I knew it was his number one.
Fun fact: Richard Garfield is the only man that Chuck Norris fears.
Also, I'd suggest Dungeon Mayhem.
I feel like Radlands is better than Magic. Especially with the expansion on the horizon. No net decking. Just pure skill in maximizing your turn. Tight resource management with no possibility to get mana screwed.
I always sort of thought that Smash Up scratched a little bit of my Magic the Gathering itch. Combos and timing play a big role in being successful, which were skills I really needed in MTG!
Hey! Tom mentioned a “two card race for the galaxy” never heard of this is it a variant I’m guessing?
Love race and would love to know what it is please Tom share the secret 😂
It’s the two player version of the game in the rulebook
Ah thanks yes play this one for two player games I thought it was something new 😂 disappointed now
Former mtg player. I enjoy Dungeon Mayhem even though it's light and I have a bunch of friends who never played mtg who enjoy it. It does get old after a while.
Roy's gonna move to Bremerton with that shirt. 🤘😆🤘
Carnival of monsters is a game design by Richard Garfield and it as a lot of magic elements .
Really an underappreciate game , recommend it if you can find a cheap copy ( think it’s out of print )
Set collection/drafting
I missed out on the MTG crazed when I was a kid. It didn't appeal to me. My drug of choice back then was RAGE the CCG.
Where's Arena of the Planeswalkers? It's literally based on Magic: The Gathering and Heroscape.
I made a Splendor/Magic mashup that is a game in a box made from commons. Its under Files section of board game geek if anyone is interested. Cheers!
Hero Realms & Binding of Isaac Four Souls would be a good choice for MTG players
i play Magic and collect board games..... I live in the streets in my house of games!!!
special shout out to whoever made music jingle for number 4
I missed ROOT on your list. But thanks for the always great inspiration and content ✌️❤️
I think they were mostly going for board games that are similar to MTG in some way.
I would add Agricola to this list. The card selection is extremely similar to deck construction.
Seasons has come up a few times in the last year maybe on this channel and its always reffered to as mid. not in those words, but im paraphrasing.
Millennium Blades was the first game I thought of....
Where would you guys rank Sakura Arms?
Rift Force looks like Air, Land, & Sea. Is that true?
Radlands to me has all of the feel of a tcg/ccg with non of the chase, it is my go to for magic players
All I need is a Comic Hunters reprint
No dune uprising? An excellent deck-building game.
I just cannot believe that millennium blades wasn't on all three lists. 😢
I could see MTG players getting into Gosu X
Good choice with expeditions zee. I would recommend Res Arcana
Ashes Reborn: Rise of the Phoenixborn.
Aeon's End.
Two suggestions that weren't on anyone's lists: Carnival of Monsters (It's a Drafting game by Richard Garfield with great art and uses lands to play Monsters, all very Magic things) and Sorcerer by Wise Wizard Games. You have some deck construction (you shuffle together a Sorcerer a domain and a type of Magic), combos and synergies and that head to head feeling.
I was surprised Sorcerer wasn't mentioned either given how much Zee raved about it. Maybe he felt it was too close ?
Sorcerer look interesting, but that dark horror art creeps me out
100% agree with CoM. As a former MtG player my friends and I play this game quite often to fill that drafting itch.
Please check out Allegiance: A realm divided (2015)!!! Mtg players will love this game
First one I thought of but very hard to find a copy now
I expected Kinghill to be on someone's list.
Yeah Tom never gave Ashes a chance. When he reviewed it he said “Do we really need another dice game?” Totally missed the boat on that one and probably only played it once before reviewing it.
I've played it several times. It's fine. I don't love it, don't hate it. But I did give it a chance.
All these deluxified board games cost me more than I ever spent on Magic. I traded with Magic and amassed a reasonably valuable collection that way.
this is only true if you started mtg 20+ years ago or more, and got cards at release for very cheap that got incredibly expensive years/decades later and made a nice profit by sheer dumb luck.
otherwise, anyone joining mtg today will have a completly different experience in this regard, in this time and age cards lose value constantly, almost with every passing day
Surprised no mention of Sorcerer. Easy deckbuilding with different play styles with hand management, resource management, and combat
As a magic player it feels like player a worse version of magic. It’s divisive and it’s a TCG too this was comparing board games!
Sorcery is another inferior TCG they are comparing to board games…
@@billable1861 I am talking about Sorcerer from Wise Wizard Games, it isn't a TCG
I believe that Res Arcana is a fantastic pick.
im suprised zee didn't mention arkham horror
I like how the 3 of them took different approaches and honed in on the different types of experiences that people look for in MTG. For, example, as someone who likes drafting and playing limited in Magic, I probably would go towards games like the deckbuilders or the more tactical hand management style games. The multiplayer "politics" games are NOT AT ALL what I would want from Magic, but I understand why something like Cosmic Encounter would appeal to commander players.
Just play whatever game and add a rule where sometimes if you don’t draw the right cards you just can’t play the game, Magic players will feel right at home.
I created a variant of Magic that eliminates land entirely. Better in every way, except that decks must be built specifically for the format, since all spells that deal with land are excluded.
@@Jason-Moonso....Grand Archive then?
I've found that decks built with a mathematical foundation don't really have this problem. It's the greedy decks that try to get by with 15/60 or 30/100 that have these games
@@beerman2000 I agree, players should play a responsible amount of lands to avoid the issue. However it is still an incredibly dated mechanism, and the base economy of the game should not determine so many outcomes, either due to flood or screw.
Magic deserves respect for being hugely influential in the board and card game space, but things have just moved passed it mechanically. I stand by my thought that if everything in gaming was the same but Magic didn’t exist, if it came up on Crowdsurfing they would rightfully rip it apart. Having a huge legacy covers a lot of flaws.
@@stephenball2108Yea, screw and flood are the Achilles heel of the game fo shizz. So I made my variant to fix it.
Wierd top 10. Why pick games that are anything like magic for this list? I am an avid player of both, but played MTG first. When i first got into board games i wanted to play games that were not that similar to magic. I played Arkham Horror, Mage Knight, Race for the Galaxy and Dominion. If i wanted to play a game similar to magic i would have just played Magic. I like Zee's list best for including games like Blood rage, cosmic encounter, and smallworld. Those are great picks.
As a magic the gathering player, apperently I need to get Vale of Eternity and Radlands.
I typically like relatively easy to learn games because trying to teach magic is impossible, it is just so expansive now. So I have to have other games to bring to different types of people. I am looking for easy to learn games that have very deep strategy going on with basic rules.
I like Roll over Race. I enjoy deck builders but I find Dominion lacks interaction (Star Realms and there is a deck building game inside my favourite MMO, ESO called Tales of Tribute I like).
Interesting that there were quite a few dudes on a map games here, I suspect that because the secret information tends to be a big part of those games.
I am supprised there isn't any Dune Imperium on here, I found that game something I wanted to play over and over to try out all the possible strategies.
I just passed the separator for #8 and my eardrums were kind of blown. A little turning down of the volume would be welcome in the future. ;-)
EDIT: The #7 separator was also a bit too loud, although the music wasn’t as intense.
King of the Tabletop is another game that influenced Garfield when designing Magic. It's where he got the idea for various creatures requiring certain "habitats" to be summoned into. A swamp is needed for the swampy monsters, for instance. As old as that game is... and the production is basically paper and thin cardboard... which makes sense, since it was a game you cut out of a magazine (Dragon Magazine)... I'd still happily play it. Fun game for its day.
I have played a lot of MtG, and sometimes resume this hobby. But when I play other board/card games, I do not look for things that are similar to MtG, quite the opposite. Rather games for other kinds of people and other windows of time. Things that scratch different itches.
Great lists! As a very heavy magic player, my top favorite games are Smash Up, Small World, Gloomhaven, and Villainous and King of Tokyo. Last 2 defs feel like Commander.
Really fun video, good vibes.
Can't say I have too many games in my collection (that aren't TCGs/ECGs) that I think are good bridges.
Maybe some of the skirmish games?
Maybe Kapow!, it's random but does have some cool combo engine elements...