The English Armada (1589) - Anything you (Spanish) can do, we can do... worse?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- Today we take a look at the English Armada, in which the Elizabethan Navy attempts a counter attack, succeeds where the Spanish failed in landing troops on enemy soil, didn't lose any naval battles, and still managed to lose the vast majority of their men whilst accomplishing almost nothing. Mostly thanks to a class based rank structure...
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Pinned post for Q&A :)
I've been on the replica of Drakes Golden Hind ship. It is tiny. Was the real Golden Hind really that small?
During the Battle off Samar, the traditional narrative involved that Kongo was the only Japanese capital ship that did anything as a result of almost all hits made on Taffy 3 being (mis)credited to her, even though Kongo’s logs show that she couldn’t have been responsible for most of these hits because she hadn’t been firing any salvoes at any American ships when these hits occurred. Regardless of which vessel(s) actually were responsible for the damage done to Taffy 3 (which is another discussion entirely), just how much of the Kongo-class’s supposed value is the result of the nameship being falsely credited for damage that she never actually accomplished?
@@bkjeong4302If it is not certain what the Golden Hinde really looked like, her size can be determined fairly well. Yes, and she was tiny: 150 tons burden, with twelve demi-culverines (9-pounder guns) on the lower deck and six smaller ones on the upper deck.
A comparison with other ships of this era shows that Drake's small galleon had a hull length of about 80 feet, breadth of about 23 feet, and a draft of 13 feet when deeply laden. Displacement about 300 long tons.
I was recently reading some alternate history discussions and saw this interesting proposition: Japan’s best move for WW2 would have been to sit the whole thing out, the logic behind it being that Japan already had the Korean Peninsula and thus had more mineral resources than they could possibly know what to do with, the only thing Japan had to do in this scenario was sit back and wait for offshore drilling tech to catch up (or for the 1951 discovery of oil in Daqing at the very least) and their fuel problems would disappear like magic. Do you agree with this take? Just how aware were the Japanese of the resources in Korea/the rest of their mainland holdings?
Given the magnitude of the situation why didn't the Spanish have any ships harass the English armada as it moved around? It seems a bit odd that with this massive English fleet the Spanish navy didn't try to do anything at all aside from sending a couple galleys at the end
Just be glad they left the HMS Kamchatka at home
" Do you see fire ships? "
16th century Kamchatka, probably
"Captain, there are Japanese torpedo boats!"
"What the hell is a torpedo?!"
- HMS Kamchatka, 1589
@@The_Laughing_Cavalier "nobody tell me no nothin...*sigh*" - Heard onboard the HMS Kamchatka Coordination centre, 1589
@@nickklavdianos5136Captain:"Fire Ships to our left!!! Load the cannons and sink them to the Ocean Floor!"
First mate:"But sir I'm pretty sure that's just the smoke from the hearth on some french fishing vessel."
Captain:"Do I have to repeat myself?"
@@dersaegefisch Captain: "And that is a problem because...?"
Congratulations on finding a portrait of Norris that accurately conveys the impression of complete vapidity. Perhaps the long-dead artist, too, was painfully aware that his patron barely had two brain cells to rub together.
The woman portrayed in the battle of la Coruña was María Pita , when the English killed her husband she attacked with a spear, killing an English officer, promoted as a second lieutenant by the king and retired as a navy officer.
❤
regarding the Londo Mollari reference (from the TV show Babylon 5) near the end, the quote is: "Only an idiot fights a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the kingdom of idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts."
Damn, didn't expect a B5 reference
B5 always. :)
Babylon 5 is criminally underrated and suspiciously absent from syndication current year. It may have something to do with the similarities between the Clark administration in certain administrations current year.
@@mikewashko BDS detected
@@Tom_Cruise_Missile BDS?
Spanish Armada of 1588: Sink Hard
English Armada of 1589: Sink Harder
Spanish Armada of 1596: Sink Hard with a Vengeance
Underrated. Take my like.
Sink Hard, part II: Electric Boogaloo
Yippy ki yay, Phillip 2nd
The English Armada didn't sink much. It was more like "Die Hard".
It surely took a while to sink in for them that all those armada things are just stupid ideas.
19:45 Some spaniard must've asked his friend, "what is the english's greatest weakness?"
And his friend, having heard tales of the Hundred years war in general and the siege of Orléans especially, answered "Women"
Not much has changed. Put English troops or sailors in a foreign port and they only want to do 2 things: fighting or f#$%ing.
I'd have answered Blas de Lezo but fair
Nah, that woman was a local volunteer, María Pita. Originally the wife of one of the Spanish officers, when her husband was killed in combat near her, she picked his weapons and called the defenders with the cry "¡Quen teña honra, que me siga!" ("whoever has honor, follow me!"), launching a successful counterattack. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/María_Pita
Spain and England: Hideous complex and unwieldy plans in the 1500's.
IJN in the 1940's: Hold my beer and watch this.
IJN Fleet Training Course 102: ‘Let’s split our limited forces into separate groups so far apart that if the enemy doesn’t do exactly what we expect them to, they’re incapable of mutual support!’
And yet they somehow *still* managed to terrorise the Pacific theatre for 3 years. The more I learn about the Pacific, the more my view goes from "wow they must be really powerful" to "how the hell did they pull all that off?"
@@cameronnewton7053 considering the (in)balance of forces with the USA I was frequently thinking "how the hell did they resist so long" ;)
This sounded more like an episode of "Black Adder" the further the story progressed!
Portuguese here: the idea of landing in Peniche is so bad I can't even... apart from how far it is, the area is most rocks and cliffs... I'm surprised the idiot noble didn't loose _most_ of his troops just trying to land...
Maybe Captain Rum was part of the operation. "You have a womans fleet, mylord!"
@@patrickbehrend5403 "I bet is has ne'er sailed with 10.000 deprived soldiers aboard and tried to land them on the most treacherous Portuguese coast to satisfy the whims of highborn lord."
If composing a period ditty about the affair, the refrain would have to be something along the lines of:
🎼With a hey nonnie-nonnie and a herpa-derpa-derp! 🎶
When you realize Blackadder is more historical documentary than comedy… 😮
As a pedantic, OCD, Portuguese, your intro regarding the political situation after the death of King D. Sebastião is spot on, I would like to just add that if Peniche wasn't the worst place to make land in the Portuguese coast it is certainly up there, thank you.
"We have met the enemy and they are us" seems to be a theme on both sides.
Go go Pogo!
It is amazing how certain lessons in history are learned...or fail to be. Large scale amphibious operations require so much planning, material, logistics, timing, and cooperation. So the old "Hey we have bunch of ships" method just rarely works.
If there is one thing we learn from history, it is that people do not learn from history.
It would be interesting to take a survey of all the successful and unsuccessful amphibious operations throughout the age of sail starting in the 15th century and compare what factors made or doomed each expedition. Uncooperative weather seems to be the largest culprit undermining such expeditions, and also the failure to account for such circumstances in planning. Perhaps all the successful expeditions took place in areas where the weather was more mild and predictable.
*Mission failed successfully*
35:12 Drach what are you talking about? The Centauri Republic beat the Narn and all their allies. Anyone argues and the Shadows will take care of them surely! 😆
Status of the waves: *ruling in progess*
Rule Brittannia on Kazoo playing
9:10- Crowdfunding a military campaign. That should be a thing again!
*watches the rest of the video*
Um... maybe not. Or maybe Putin should try it. Yeah!
Would anyone be interested in sponsoring U Boats to fight Diabetes😂
The US just called 5hem war bonds... but they were loans, not share investments.
Technically every military campaign is crowdfunded, taxes being what they are.
both Ukraine and Russia, Ukraine far more so, uses crowdfunding as a major source of military equipment
Drach, that dry sense of humor of yours is priceless. I just love listening to you. Thank you so much. Can't get enough. ☺️
"Did anyone remember to bring the artillery?"
Why is the gonne gone? - attr. Captain John Sparrow, HM Royal Marines
To this day in Portugal we have the expression "amigo de peniche", (translating to "friend of/from peniche), meaning an untrustworthy friend :D
Dom Antonio: "Hey, friends. Why don't you give me a hand? Don't mind the 12,000 Protestant foreginers looting everything. They're just here to help".
I'll say that... Maybe, perhaps, between all the Iberian union debacles, the sacks performed by the British in Portugal during the Napoleonic wars, and the pink map affair, Portugal shouldn't be trusting the military alliance with England for a while now...
Rulen't Britannia, Britannia rulen't the wave
No such place as Britain at this time. Come back after 1707.
I believe this is still before Britannia existed.
@@greenseashipsThe ancient greeks named it Britannia and the name Britain was used in the 1400's.
Jesus Christ, to land in Peniche and try to besiege Lisboa… without any siege artillery… these people knew Lisboa was a WALLED city, right??
Even Drake’s original plan was risky, since the force they had on hand should have been about the size of the garrison.
It would have been one of the most formidable naval warfare feats in history, though. Lisboa was no Cartagena; it was one of the largest and richest cities in Europe. Drake certainly didn’t lack for ambition.
"divine wind" UK edition
A series of unfortunate gusts no doubt.
"My shoes are too tight, and I have forgotten how to dance." Londo Mollari (Babylon 5, S1.E7)
Please do a video on the naval combat between the English and Dutch against the Iberian union in the Indian or pacific oceans
And the battles between the Dutch and English in that time. While nominally allies the Dutch and English sometimes directly fought eachother in the indies
Thanks for this. Except those with a interest in military history of this period this is pretty well unknown. It's not taught in English schools about this failure. Elizabeth was told that the whole thing as a success and claimed as such although she did not engage either Norris or Drake again in any venture for a few years which tells that she knew she had been sold a lemon. Norris would end up back fight the Irish (a thankless job) where he would die of gangrene from old wounds and purportedly a broken heart for his treatment by Elizabeth. Drake didn't fare any better eventually getting a new command only to die of dysentery following his failed attempt to take Panama.
We (Spanish) did it quiet well before and after the "Spanish Armada" times. In fact we didi it for 3 centuries.😊
Poor Drake, he couldn't even throw any binoculars off his ship, as they hadn't been invented yet. 😢
Essex performed a Jingles Landing.
Moral of the story: Never try to run an invasion by committee
Especially if you don't have a Soviet Union attacking by the east, incompetent fascists messing up the south and very quiet Nordics neutral in the north.
That's why the Allied D-Day was possible to think about.
Phallic potatoes are the only way.
you kind of have to, you just have to have committee of people who are interested in the group succeeding, and not just themselves, and are good at what they are suppose to be doing.
Drake in this is practically in the same position as Raeder during the the plans for Sealion listening to Jodl describe a cross channel invasion like a river crossing and practically crying in embarassment.
This is a part of the reason why I think James I was one of England’s best kings; he brought peace to England and began colonizing North America, which would help bolster the English as a major, European power.
Especially the wealth extracted from the American colonies.
England always after The Spanish😂😂😂
Spanish were in America before English😂😂😂.
Get back to india
Love the B5 reference. Londo Mollari would’ve been a great fit for the era.
Q: How do you sink the British Navy...
A: Tell them the bottom of the ocean hasn't been colonized yet.
Hear, hear! 😂
🦅🇺🇸🦅
I also hear they are missing some freedom down there
@@jasperfromming6633 don’t tell the Pentagon that! 😂
@@jasperfromming6633Did you say OIL?! 🇺🇲Lol
And then you tell the US fleet there's oil on those wrecks, et vióla you've sunk them too!
35:15 wait, was that a Babylon 5 reference 🙂? Londo Mollari 😎?
I wonder if you will venture on the evacuation of Coruña (Corunna) after the the Battle of Elviña by Sir John Moore. It’s my city after all!
So I guess the "winds and waves of God" blow both ways 😏 Plus a while bunch of human error.
"Sorry guys, I forgot the seige artillery at home"
Londo Mollari? Fitting reference.
Good documentary and well spoken.
Love the "Babylon 5" call-out: "Ah, arrogance and stupidity all in the same package. How efficient of you!"
Is that something the Ferengi dude with the spotted forehead said, or is Babylon 5 not in the Star Trek universe?
Babylon 5 is a different universe! At one point its creator was accusing the producers of "Deep Space 9" of plagiarism.@@jtzoltan
@@jtzoltanquark has better ones. The root beer speech is awesome and painfully accurate
Love the Londo Mollari reference - perfect description of Philip II's reign as he never knew when enough was enough.
King Sebastian, please. Listening to english speakers trying their luck with nasal diphtongs hurts portuguese speakers as much as our attempts with dental fricatives might hurt you.
In all fairness, it is often very difficult to get a nasal diphthong properly fitted. If thus the straps are digging in, or slack, then success is almost impossible.
@@kersebleptes1317 Indeed. Even foreigners who spent years in Brazil and mastered several other elements of the language get it way wrong often. Thus the comparison with dentral fricatives. Just as I have yet to see a english speaker get the 'ão' in João right, I have yet to see a brazilian raised here get the 'th' in thought or thin quite right.
Have you thought about making a video of the Scapa Flow salvage operations?
2:12 Phillip looks like one of those guys who still thinks skinny jeans are fashionable
Laughs in Álvaro de Bazán
Although that didn’t last long either
So maddening that it failed due to one man, while ultimate victory was unlikely, there would have been many gains had drake being in charge
At least they actually managed to _land..._
Operation why you don’t let aristocrats run militaries.
Way to honor that 1000 year old alliance, Anglos!
Excellent... Francis Drake is a name I recognized even as a small lad. Rate this three and one half binoculars.
I visited his home Buckland Abby before covid
It should also be noted that if Norris had paid attention to recent history, he may have been aware that King John I of Castile had failed capture Lisbon with a siege featuring massive siege force and a naval blockade with Lisbon being defended by an absolutely tiny force.
HMS Toby, or not Toby?
That is the question.
Drake is going west lads, so Fred is going west, but ittle Tom just stays in bed, the lazy little beast.
If your plan is not complicated enough to work, you have to plan harder
5:22 “By sparking an uprising in Portugal.”
Wait, do we mean Portugal - the *country* or…
PORTUGAL THE MAN? 😎😄
I’m imagining a crypto bro telling me to invest in invading Spain.
Very good drach just 1 minor error water buffalo are from Asia and would never encounter spotted hyenas! Not going to count the other hyenas of Africa and asia since they are harmless.
He couldn't bring himself to utter the correct words, the Lion of Europe attacked by a multitude of hyenas, ottoman/french/dutch, etc...
That's what I was thinking. Perhaps Drach meant to say Cape buffalo ... but it would be brave hyaena who takes on one of those even after a stumble.
The Portugues are the "scots" off Ibéria and we acctualy are a country.
You gotta change that intro music. It's been unbearable for months now. Don't fix things that are shooting perfect. Thanks.
You should do a video of Action of 9 August 1780 where the losses to England were so huge that they were still remembered during the Napoleonic wars.
Is there a playlist for the Spanish armada? I need to catch up on this.
Yep - th-cam.com/play/PLMK9a-vDE5zGEVtdGgCZAUsK4up3LB1oU.html&si=LVnrjjv-1xXju4g2
There is still an expression in Portuguese language "Friends of Peniche" (Amigos de Peniche) to name people you were pinning your hopes on but who have let you down :)
I have to say, I was somewhat surprised that ships in dry dock don't have their magazines emptied during such heavy maintenance.
I wonder if any of Sir John Moore’s ancestors were on the mission to Coruna.
He made 800,000 Pounds…. of actual Sterling Silver i presume..
The Queen failed. She did not define the command structure.
Dom Antonio: Portugal’s first openly flamboyant potential heir.
Amateurs study tactics. Professionals study logistics. There have been precious few professionals in all of military history. Case in point.
And then there are those, like Sir John Norris appears to have been, who study neither yet end up at the top of the chain of command and somehow think they belong there.
8:56 To quote Dick Jones; "I say good business is where you find it."
Such badass music!
29:50: " Your mother was a hamster..."
Did the Spanish in LIsbon respond to Essex's challenge to come out and fight by saying "I fart in your general direction! I discharge my nostrils upon you!", or was that a purely French military decision?
Portugal, esqueceste o Dono dos mares e distorces a veracidade dos factos. TH-cam beyond the fault is ablle to have such ignorância
3:30 - “Sebastião” is pronounced “Sebastian” with a nasal “n”
Ah, the Dutch....... ever the opportunists. In war, there is profit!
The Dutch Rules of Aquisition : Rule 34. War is good for business.. Rule 35. Peace is good for business..🖖😁 "live long and prosperous"
@@kommissarkillemall2848Loius XIV ❤
Love the title of this one!
Of course England lost not one but all naval battles in this endeavour.
35:11 Babylon 5 reference made my day! Thank you.
Excellent content Drach. Thank you.
To any Libertarians watching, this is a good example of how the profit motive is not the perfect fix for every problem in society as you lot imagine it to be.
... but it failed due to demands of adherence to a caste system
@@kanrakucheese Nope. It was because of the desire for profit, that the MAIN OBJECTIVE, of the voyage. That being the destruction of Spanish warships in a known location. Was ignored.
Português be like we can just sit here and watch the idiots go at it we got what we wanted 😂
A Londo Mollari reference? Drach, you are legend!
I was wondering when fever would arise in your account (thinking of Walcheren much later in 1809)...and of course, our poor matelots yet again were left waiting for their back pay.
Londo was right but you could never say the Bourbons or their chins were that clever to begin with.
So Spain was looting South America…. It is difficult to loot your own territory, that is what all the Spanish America was, provinces of Spain, they were never a colony, they were a part of Spain not different from the Spanish mainland. This does not mean there was not a cultural clash, and in some instances abuse. I am the only culprit here, as my expectations were you would be more impartial and historically accurate.
As someone who is half-Bolivian, I can assure you my maternal ancestors were not especially keen on the forcible takeover of their homeland. There is also the matter of what exists on paper and what exists in practice. On paper South American (minus Brazil) might have been notionally part of Spain, but in practice if you were a native you were usually very much a second-class citizen.
You can be a half bolivian and still suffer a deep ignorance of the institutional, economical and cultural history of spanish America. You have beautiful examples there in Bolivia: viceregal palaces, cathedrals, universities, hospitals, beautiful renaisance an baroque cities, convents, colleges, ..... just the kind of stuff your another half english part NEVER NEVER NEVER tried to build in their purely extractive colonies......@@Drachinifel
Ignorance speaks through you. Before you speak more nonsense, please, check "Leyes de Burgos 1512". And after you can proceed on the Leyes de Indias of 1542, 1580 and so on.... Your ignorance is truly AMAZING. @@Drachinifel
@@Drachinifel don't try to reason with these fanatics
They embarrass my countrymen
Portugal hadn't been taken over.
Cartagena de Indias, 180 barcos ingleses y 30.000 soldados contra 3000 españoles y indigenas, Blas de Lezo los mando a llevar carbon a Irlanda.
Loved how you linked it with the history of the centaury empire
Age of Sail: Splendid. 😄👍
I think they should probably have listened to Captain Drake
That Spain was able to fight all of Europe and the Ottoman Empire for so long is nothing short of amazing, and can only be explained by the constant flux of silver and gold from the Indies.
Help me, but besides England and the Dutch Provinces, with whom else were they at war ?
@@ottovonbismarck2443 Ottomans, the French,
And good sturdy pikemen.
@@augustosolari7721 I meant at the same time; obviously they were not fighting the French in this "episode".
Vaya se nota que no ha estado en HispanoAmerica y veria en que se gastó el oro España en ciudades monumentales hoy y servicios en la época que dejan en ridículo a muchas Europeas de entonces y en monumentos ahora y la 1 universidad de América por supuesto .
thanks, Hermans and Padfields books both barely mention these (as do most of the books on the Armadas)
Love this age!
Please cover the Dutch more Piet heijn, de ruyter, tromp
Excellent B5 reference. 😀
just small thing...
you are saying that if they sailed 2 knots its faster to just walk. Thats not true actually. Ship with speed 2 knots is sailing day and night, army have to rest, cannot go 24/7 and have issues with logistic of supplies, cannons etc...
2 knots is slightly faster than I can walk on water.
Why do you never tell about the English Counter Armada, which was the British fleet greatest defeat at sea, it was the seconf half of the story, I guess the brits forgot about it.
Sir John Norris looked like my 3rd grade teacher, Mrs. Swanne. She had a big, poofy hairdo, was overweight and wore horned rimmed glasses This was about 1976.
Many of the “greatest generals” of the Middle Ages were just dudes who didn’t do incredibly stupid things like Norris.
You know what they say about running away from a bear.
35:11 Based and Babylon 5-pilled.
Amsterdam
Wauw, very cynical indeed....
But funny also😅
Finally someone telling the truth about the English defeat.