5 Naval Own Goals - Stop Helping! You're only making it worse!

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 864

  • @Drachinifel
    @Drachinifel  11 หลายเดือนก่อน +58

    Pinned post for Q&A :)

    • @saffakanera
      @saffakanera 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

      Merry Christmas!
      EDIT: Oops t's a Q&A thread, er, Merry Christmas?

    • @danielregnard882
      @danielregnard882 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      Historically the British Pacific Fleet didn't arrive until late 1944 after the major fleet battles had already taken place. If the BPF has arrived early enough to be able to partake in the liberation of the Philippines, how do you think it would have been deployed/ utilised in the allied naval formations for the Leyte gulf campaign?

    • @brendonbewersdorf986
      @brendonbewersdorf986 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      I know some ships had dogs or cats as mascots but what are some more unusual ships mascots like I've heard mention of a British submarine that had a reindeer aboard?

    • @myronpross814
      @myronpross814 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      If the High Seas Fleet would have mutinied en route to internment at Scapa Flow and went instead to Den Helder, would the Dutch be able to keep 175K tons per Washington Treaty? What warships would you modernize for the NEI fleet and why?

    • @dollcet308
      @dollcet308 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Merry Christmas Drachinifel, i'm not sure if you've covered this topic in a drydock episode, but what about pre-dreadnoughts that already had design elements that could have been groundbreaking towards the dreadnought, although the final step was essentially missing? I'm asking about the SMS Wörth, which had three twin turrets capable of firing on both sides. However, the different calibre lengths of the middle turret and the presence of larger than 6-inch medium artillery make it impossible to qualify the ship as a dreadnought. Have you already had an episode on such 'you were so close, but unfortunately, the shot missed' designs? If so, please tell me where I can find it; otherwise, it might be an interesting topic for a future episode. Best regards.

  • @ph89787
    @ph89787 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2308

    Considering Mogami had hit Imperial Japanese ARMY transports. Does it really count as friendly fire?

    • @Elinbemyname
      @Elinbemyname 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +398

      A fair question. The IJN might have actually considered that a valid target.

    • @JonathanLundkvist
      @JonathanLundkvist 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +135

      Asking the real questions!

    • @cloudy7937
      @cloudy7937 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +375

      "Captain, those ships have the rising sun ensign!"
      _"Oh shit cease fire, I said c-"_
      "Wait sir on closer inspection the sun in the flags are centered"
      _"Ah well then. You may continue to fire at will"_

    • @joshstanton267
      @joshstanton267 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +143

      Probably got a commendation to be honest, knowing the state of affairs between Imperial Japanese services at the time 😂

    • @TillyOrifice
      @TillyOrifice 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

      Excellent point.

  • @hatchcrazy
    @hatchcrazy 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +54

    “Disguised yourself as the enemy so efficiently your own U-boat torpedoed you” is the most German Navy thing I’ve ever heard.

    • @sebastianriemer1777
      @sebastianriemer1777 21 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Efficiency and an eye for the detail has its downsides. 😅

  • @vikkimcdonough6153
    @vikkimcdonough6153 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +471

    IJA: "Hey! You torpedoed five of our own ships!"
    IJN: "Wonderfull! Now we know those torpedoes damaged the enemy!"

    • @alexanderflack566
      @alexanderflack566 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +68

      If they were punished for it by the higher ups in the IJN, it wouldn't be for shooting IJA vessels, it would be for doing it accidentally rather than intentionally, and for getting caught.

    • @seanbigay1042
      @seanbigay1042 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +17

      Better yet: "Wonderful! Now we know for sure our torpedoes WORK!"

    • @snagletoothscott3729
      @snagletoothscott3729 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

      "That one time the IJA got sunk by friendly fire from the IJN" Was though, though?

    • @АртурМилкович
      @АртурМилкович 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

    • @alancranford3398
      @alancranford3398 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      The IJA & IJN regarded each other as enemies and far more dangerous than the infantile Americans. Cooperation with each other took a backseat to backstabbing. Admiral Yamamoto was in constant danger of being assassinated by the Japanese Army and had to hide out somewhere safe--the war zones in the Pacific.

  • @kevinwebster7868
    @kevinwebster7868 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +618

    So glad you included Mogami on this list. It’s one of the greatest own goals in naval history. So great in fact that every time I play the Mogami in World of Warships I make it a point to torpedo at least one of my teammates. I’m all for historical accuracy in gaming.

    • @DIREWOLFx75
      @DIREWOLFx75 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +17

      *lol*

    • @seanbigay1042
      @seanbigay1042 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +35

      I bet your teammates always make sure you DON'T play the Mogami.

    • @HansLasser
      @HansLasser 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +44

      What a dedication to authentic reenactment!

    • @mhyotyni
      @mhyotyni 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +25

      Pink ships in WoW playerlist are beautiful 💘

    • @АртурМилкович
      @АртурМилкович 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ooooooooooooooooooooooo

  • @fearthehoneybadger
    @fearthehoneybadger 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +481

    The captain of the Mogami should have had a medal sent to its captain from the US Navy.

    • @ph89787
      @ph89787 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +59

      Arashi (or whatever destroyer that was chasing Nautilus at Midway) should’ve received the Presidential Unit Citation.

    • @fearthehoneybadger
      @fearthehoneybadger 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

      @@ph89787 And one to the US submarine that lured it.

    • @ph89787
      @ph89787 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +32

      @@fearthehoneybadger Nautilus did get the Presidential Unit Citation.

    • @sirboomsalot4902
      @sirboomsalot4902 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +19

      @@ph89787There’s actually some question about whether or not that actually was the Arashi. Some historians have pointed out that Arashi was the flagship of the escorting destroyer division, and it would have been strange for her to go after Nautilus instead of sending one of her charges to do it

    • @ph89787
      @ph89787 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      @@sirboomsalot4902 that’s what the brackets are for.

  • @Paladin1873
    @Paladin1873 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +159

    My pick would be the 1942 Naval Battle of Guadalcanal where the USS San Francisco joined the IJN in a game of who can put the most shells in the USS Atlanta.

    • @MakeMeThinkAgain
      @MakeMeThinkAgain 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +21

      Don't forget the 8" hits on the San Francisco (hello Portland). Come to San Francisco with a tape measure and you can still find them at Lands End.

    • @ZGryphon
      @ZGryphon 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +37

      Mass confusion at night was a recurring theme of that whole campaign--e.g., the Battle of Cape Esperance the previous month, with Admiral Goto convinced his ships were being fired at by other Japanese ships, while Admiral Scott was equally convinced that his ships were firing at other American ships, and nobody really had a solid idea of what the hell was going on before it was all over except possibly the crew of USS _Duncan,_ who managed to get shot up by both sides for their trouble.

    • @davidlewis5312
      @davidlewis5312 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      how about the wonderful picket ship work done at the battle of savo island?

    • @Paladin1873
      @Paladin1873 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@davidlewis5312 Ouch!

    • @Engine33Truck
      @Engine33Truck 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@MakeMeThinkAgainI grew up down the street from a man who served on Portland throughout the war. He was either a signalman or a radioman, either way his station was on the bridge with a good idea of what was going on. His retelling of the battle was that Portland accidentally struck San Francisco AND Atlanta before realizing their mistake. Then atoned for their sins with their 1-v-1 against Hiei.

  • @bificommander7472
    @bificommander7472 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +181

    The Japanese navy wrecked its own fleet while blaming phantom Dutch torpedo boats. It seems by sinking the Kamchatka, the IJN inherited its curse.

    • @internetzenmaster8952
      @internetzenmaster8952 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Glad I'm not the only one who thought that.

    • @sebastianriemer1777
      @sebastianriemer1777 21 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Weren't they army ships? So technically they hit a opposing force that just happened to be on their side.

  • @ronaldfinkelstein6335
    @ronaldfinkelstein6335 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +249

    Mogami also contributed to the sinking of her sister ship, Mikuma, during the Battle of Midway. She collided with Mikuma, while trying to avoid an American submarine. The damage slowed the pair of cruisers, and American dive bombers finished the Mikuma, as well as heavily damaging Mogami.

    • @ph89787
      @ph89787 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +26

      She also got bullied by Enterprise twice. Once at Midway when some of her Dauntlesses attacked her along with sinking Mikuma. 2 and a half years later at Leyte Gulf, Mogami was part of the Southern Force when Helldivers from Enterprise and Franklin attacked them. Along with Fuso and Yamashiro.

    • @Eboreg2
      @Eboreg2 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +17

      That one was pretty much Mikuma's fault for turning the wrong way.

    • @bkjeong4302
      @bkjeong4302 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

      That one was on Mikuma.

    • @NashmanNash
      @NashmanNash 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thats what they want you to believe:D@@bkjeong4302

    • @PeteOtton
      @PeteOtton 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      The Mogami's torpedo officer realized it was a bad idea to have tons of explosives and pure oxygen on deck and jettisoned them over the side. The ̶M̶o̶g̶a̶m̶i̶ ̶ Mikuma chose not to do so with obvious results.

  • @lafeelabriel
    @lafeelabriel 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +185

    Five torpedos hit out of six fired is a..pretty impressive score for sure.

    • @jamesharding3459
      @jamesharding3459 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +38

      All on different ships, no less.

    • @torgover-l1n
      @torgover-l1n 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +18

      I-19 also scored hits with 5 of 6 torpedoes in a spread, getting three hits on USS Wasp, and one each on USS North Carolina and O'Brien, with the Wasp and O'Brien later sinking.

    • @lafeelabriel
      @lafeelabriel 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +17

      @@torgover-l1n Thats only three different targets hit as opposed to Mogami's five though.

    • @praevasc4299
      @praevasc4299 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      Especially as they were not even aiming at them!

    • @marckyle5895
      @marckyle5895 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

      @@praevasc4299 Or _were_ they? These were HITS on multiple targets. You don't hit something by mistake and jettison them. Calculated firing solutions on moving targets had been given to the torpedo steering control.

  • @dbcooper4375
    @dbcooper4375 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +143

    I would count the mk14 torpedo as an 'own goal' considering how little threat it posed to the Japanese, and how much threat it posed to the US navy subs carrying it.

    • @mohdafnanazmi1674
      @mohdafnanazmi1674 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +15

      At this point mk14 is just beating a dead horse because mk14 has a full documentary in and a dozen reference in this channel

    • @naamadossantossilva4736
      @naamadossantossilva4736 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      It got fixed later and its early failures lulled the IJN in a false sense of security.It was a very dire scandal,but a complete own goal it wasn't.

    • @supremecaffeine2633
      @supremecaffeine2633 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +29

      ​@@naamadossantossilva4736 The most decorated submarine in the US Navy was destroyed when its own mk14s turned around on her. They deserve to be ridiculed till the sea dries.

    • @troydeckert7273
      @troydeckert7273 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I'll watch the torpedo documentary, and maybe it has this? The total losses to the U.S. military from torpedo malfeasance? Those losses are enormous, because the total has to count the subsequent damage done by each of the IJN ships and aircraft that kept going, thanks to the faulty torpedos. Isn't that more than the total losses in some of the incidents that Drach selects for this video? Or other U.S.losses from mistakes, like the Taffy task force being by itself, or the early battles of Savo Island. Those mistakes were in the heat of battle, the fog of war, which can't be said of the officials who sent sailors and airmen out with those faulty torpedos, lying that all was well.
      There ought to be a remembrence marker to the U.S. losses from negligence [that was repeated, pointed out, and made clear by the commanders whose men (and women, if they were bombed at a base) were dying] placed in a hallway or on the grounds of the Pentagon, to acknowledge some accountability. Perhaps also as deterence, if, with some institutional courage, names might be included of those responsible. Or, at the least recognize the names of those who finally showed some courage to fix it, which would at least be admitting that it needed fixing, and also while recognizing the bravery of those who died going forth for their country.

    • @Jens-Viper-Nobel
      @Jens-Viper-Nobel 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@supremecaffeine2633 By "they," I presume that you are talking about the US navy ordnance department that designed the torpedoes and gave them an equally defective detonator invented by an officer in the ordnance department itself, and then refused to test the damned things and claiming that any and all misfires and and nonexploding hits were due to malpractise by poorly trained crews.
      Actually the torpedo itself wasn't a failure. This was proven when a group of torpedo sailors resolved to tinker with them to try to make them work when they couldn't get replacements, and by adjusting a few parts and replace the detonators with older ones they found, achieved some extremely good test firings.
      So, it was all on the ordnance department that refused to admit to being less than perfect in it's handling of new torpedoes and detonators. And if I remember what I have been taught correctly (not sure about it), things got underway and the faults were corrected when Halsey and the pacific commander of submarines blew a fuse in anger and threatened al kinds of things towards both the ordnance department itself and even the combined chief's of staff in the navy.

  • @thehandoftheking3314
    @thehandoftheking3314 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +242

    Mogami:
    Fires at USS Houston.
    Misses
    Sinks IJA transports
    IJN: "task successfully failed.

    • @seanbigay1042
      @seanbigay1042 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +15

      "Task successfully failed." (Beat. Crickets chirp, a tumbleweed rolls by. Some passing crows call us idiots.) "... wut."

    • @richardcutts196
      @richardcutts196 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      We all know the real enemy of any Navy, is the Army.

    • @bkjeong4302
      @bkjeong4302 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      Mogami did hit Houston plenty of times with her guns, though.

    • @CorePathway
      @CorePathway 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +15

      “Houston, we have a problem, Mogami has just launched torpedoes. Ummm, cancel that. The Japanese Army Transports have a problem.”

    • @АртурМилкович
      @АртурМилкович 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      oooooooooooo

  • @extragoogleaccount6061
    @extragoogleaccount6061 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +208

    Drach publishes so much content, I can barely keep up! And to think the total time spent working on them is probably 10x greater than the content's run-time ....its amazing he has the time! He is a machine.

    • @khaelamensha3624
      @khaelamensha3624 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +36

      Drachinifel once said that he works more now than when he was an engineer. But guess what, he likes it more 😉😂. But we will never praised the work of Drachinifel and the patience of Mrs Drachinifel!

    • @tonyduncan9852
      @tonyduncan9852 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      Bless him. 😎

    • @91Redmist
      @91Redmist 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      He's like a supercomputer with this naval stuff. Tons and tons of knowledge, as wide as it is deep!

    • @khaelamensha3624
      @khaelamensha3624 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      OK sorry I wanted to type we will never praise enough.. It seems everyone got it but (very bad student in English course and a too small bloody smartphone 😅)

    • @АртурМилкович
      @АртурМилкович 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

  • @Yacovo
    @Yacovo 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +76

    The Russian 2nd Pacific Squadron's voyage to the Pacific scored own goal, several dozen fouls and injuries, hit several members of the audience, and scored a touchdown in an American Football game somehow. Thanks for the video.

    • @adam_mawz_maas
      @adam_mawz_maas 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +20

      And that was just Kamchatka....

    • @Thirdbase9
      @Thirdbase9 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +15

      It should be a Safety in American Football, getting tackled in your own end zone and giving your opponent 2 points. (Yes I know there's other ways to give up a safety.)

    • @GearGuardianGaming
      @GearGuardianGaming 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

      ​@@Thirdbase9is it a safety if you get tackled in your own endzone by your own player? because i think thats what actually happened there lol

    • @Thirdbase9
      @Thirdbase9 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      @@GearGuardianGaming yes, and that has happened.

    • @Curt_Sampson
      @Curt_Sampson 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@Thirdbase9 Sorry, I'm not too familiar with American "football," but is it a safety (or should it be) if you tackle a _spectator_ in your own end zone (or anywhere else, for that matter)?

  • @MartinGreywolf
    @MartinGreywolf 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +147

    On one hand, I think the Great Russian Binocular-hurling Expedition should be on this list. On the other hand, that whole thing was so bad it was more like somehow scoring a dozen own goals in a game of tennis.

    • @lancepharker
      @lancepharker 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +37

      It has already been WELL covered by Drach already in several videos, both the entire expedition and its most infamous torpedo boat spotter.

    • @alexanderflack566
      @alexanderflack566 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +36

      I can see why he didn't do a "in fifth place, the Kamchatka...in fourth place, the Kamchatka...in third place, just for a change, we have the Kamchatka..." thing. However, if they had actually managed to antagonize the British into open conflict, it might have made this list at least once regardless of the other videos on it.

    • @jaelwyn
      @jaelwyn 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Probabl6 deserved honorable mention, at least...

    • @marckyle5895
      @marckyle5895 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

      @@alexanderflack566 pissing off the stronger but uninvolved ally of whom they're fighting seems to be a Russian trait.

    • @seanbigay1042
      @seanbigay1042 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

      Are we talking about Rozhestvensky's fleet, the one that struggled halfway round the world, almost getting into a fight with the British Navy, only to get shot to pieces by Togo's fleet at Tsushima? The Fleet That Had To Die?

  • @Internutt2023
    @Internutt2023 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +84

    @ 9:01 I had an acquaintance from a off road motoring group ( we were in the US of A) in the mid 2000's who was from England, and I had the occasion to ask him what he thought of our 4th of July holiday, to which, he replied "It's just another day when the French betrayed us"

    • @robertmatch6550
      @robertmatch6550 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +15

      I was reminded of the execution of Admiral John Byng, which is perhaps not meeting the definition of an 'own goal' but resulted in the famous Voltaire quote "pour encourager les autres".

    • @williestyle35
      @williestyle35 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      I loled when I read this. The accuracy is spot on (from a particularly British pov).

  • @Big_E_Soul_Fragment
    @Big_E_Soul_Fragment 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +146

    Ah, my favorite ship of the ABDA Command that fought the IJN: The Heavy Cruiser Mogami

    • @jamesharding3459
      @jamesharding3459 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +26

      Strictly speaking, it fought the IJA.

    • @Panzerless_SG
      @Panzerless_SG 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +25

      I am Dutch so it pains me to say this but.
      She was more effective then the entire surface fleet of the ABDA-Command combined.
      Only Ship-a-day Helfrich saves it from being "the most effective vessal of the entire ABDA-Command"

    • @davidlewis5312
      @davidlewis5312 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      it was certainly the most successful ship in the ABDA at fighting the japanese

  • @OtherWorldExplorers
    @OtherWorldExplorers 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +54

    That first picture of the Mary Rose. They had guns pointing at the crow's nest. I sincerely believe they had a sleeping on duty problem.
    And they certainly knew how to take care of it.

    • @gokbay3057
      @gokbay3057 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      The painting with guns pointing inside is an artistic license thing.

    • @danhammond8406
      @danhammond8406 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

      ​@@gokbay3057they did have guns that covered their own decks. They were for repelling boarders after they got onboard

    • @gokbay3057
      @gokbay3057 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      @@danhammond8406 Yes, but those were smaller anti-personelle guns, not the larger ones comparable to those on the broadside as the painting depicts.

    • @alexanderflack566
      @alexanderflack566 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

      Honestly, the fact that the Mary Rose sank like that turned out to be extraordinarily helpful for understanding the English longbow. Before that, estimates of draw length and draw weight were basically guesses, and very inaccurate ones at that.

    • @TomFynn
      @TomFynn 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      "Is our look out awake?"
      "Well, he's a bit all over the place..."

  • @thekinginyellow1744
    @thekinginyellow1744 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +19

    31:50 When you were describing the shot, I was thinking "Holy Cow, what are they using? The Dardanelles gun?". After you confirmed it I followed up with "How the hell do you aim it? These are siege guns." The only answer I could come up with is that you aim it at fix spot and wait for the enemy to sail through your aim point. Totally useless in most naval combat, but in a constrained channel with plenty of warning - Blammo!

  • @TomFynn
    @TomFynn 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +45

    Other ships lead from the front. The Mary Rose led from the bottom.

  • @cartmann94
    @cartmann94 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +264

    Royal Navy: do not overload a warship, got it.
    Swedish Navy: Vad? Vi kan inte höra dig här Vasa. (What? We can’t hear you here at the Vasa)

    • @Foureye15
      @Foureye15 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +21

      You're missing a preposition before "Vasa", it should be "Vad? Vi kan inte höra er [to make it plural] här på Vasa"

    • @edvinwerner2972
      @edvinwerner2972 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

      ”Vasa” du?

    • @Kromaatikse
      @Kromaatikse 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +17

      To be fair, the Vasa wasn't overloaded, just built way too tall and narrow.

    • @Ah01
      @Ah01 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      @@KromaatikseJep, one could argue that there should have been much heavier ballast.

    • @christopherreed4723
      @christopherreed4723 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +21

      Vasa would have been a formidable opponent with her original one deck and the 24-pounders on it.
      Ironically, though, if they'd managed to convince Gustavus Adolphus to drop his insistence on a second gun deck, she'd have probably had a distinguished career, been retired and broken up, and we'd hardly know about her.

  • @guntherrall3334
    @guntherrall3334 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +22

    Love the new intro but the old one will always be the GOAT

  • @Temp0raryName
    @Temp0raryName 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +83

    My grandfather was a fisherman in WWII. He had his trawler pulled up on a Cornish beach, for maintenance. But a torpedo came out of the water, ran up the beach and blew it up! After the war a BRITISH sub mariner approached him in a bar and offered his apologies for the negligent discharge from his sub. No official acknowledgement, apology or compensation was ever made.

    • @CharlesYuditsky
      @CharlesYuditsky 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

      That was a different time then. Even though the sub Captain fessed up to the cock up, the guy who lost the boat probably figured that many young men had lost their lives instead of a simple boat. Water under the bridge. He may have even had a laugh!?

    • @gregorywright4918
      @gregorywright4918 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@CharlesYuditskyMaybe he got insurance payout for "war damage"?

    • @CharlesYuditsky
      @CharlesYuditsky 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@gregorywright4918 Possibly.

    • @Temp0raryName
      @Temp0raryName 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@gregorywright4918 No you do not get compensation for enemy action in wartime (insurance companies would go bust if they didn't have claims excluding that). And as the Navy/British Government covered up the accident it never got classed as anything else.

  • @vipondiu
    @vipondiu 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +26

    I would have awnsered that pompous letter with a clarification-requesting letter reading:
    "WAT?"

    • @babayaga6376
      @babayaga6376 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      U wot mate?

    • @mikhailiagacesa3406
      @mikhailiagacesa3406 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Eh?

    • @EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts
      @EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      It certainly did reveal the English character, one more disposed to bluff than action and generally happy with deceit.

  • @fabianzimmermann5495
    @fabianzimmermann5495 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +30

    I'd nominate the Kriegsmarine's obsession of transmitting so many radio messages during the battle of the Atlantic. In case of the u-boats it meant that the British consistently knew where the enemy was and rerouted their convois to avoid them and in case of the Bismarck it told them exactly where the battleship they were looking for was, which allowed them to find and subsequently sink it.

    • @Curt_Sampson
      @Curt_Sampson 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      I don't think it was entirely obvious at the time (early in the war) exactly how good British HF/DF was or was not, and it was certainly less obvious how successful the folks at Bletchley were (or even that they existed at all).

    • @ROBERTN-ut2il
      @ROBERTN-ut2il 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Der Rudeltaktik aka Wolfpacks depended to lots of radio messages, although the Germans did indulge i a terrible amount of radio chatter (skippers wishing each of happy birthday, tc)

    • @davidlewis5312
      @davidlewis5312 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      honestly the navy was better than other services at handling their encryptions, if it hadn't been for the weird one size fits all use of Enigma in every service it might not have mattered.

    • @TimInertiatic
      @TimInertiatic หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      ​@@davidlewis5312even the unencrypted transmissions allow for triangulation

  • @rashkavar
    @rashkavar 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +32

    Duckworth's adventure in the Dardanelles is kinda wild. Having a ship more or less spontaneously combust is not exactly a good start to any mission. But my 21st century brain doesn't get the idea of sending warships all the way to the enemy capital, past some of the most defensible waters in the world, in order to wave fists in the general direction of the Ottomans in person rather than by post rather than, y'know, use all those big guns to force compliance as per Commodore Parry in Japan....but I guess that's just how things were done back then....

    • @sugarnads
      @sugarnads 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      One was a demonstration.
      One was a blatant act of war.
      Bit of a difference.

    • @patricia1333
      @patricia1333 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Russian Second Pacific Squadron. Apparently it never gets old to sail through waters filled with “friends” (ships who will be fired upon and spark an international incident) to try to fight an enemy with a poorly sharpened knife when the opponent has a mini gun…. Oh, and Kamchatka. Just cause lol

    • @TomFynn
      @TomFynn 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +15

      "Gentlemen, for this operation we have a fleet of ten ships..."
      [Boom]
      "Nine, nine ships."

    • @Trebor74
      @Trebor74 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      All the ships on the Dardanelle strait attack were old ships and scrapped within a year.

    • @rashkavar
      @rashkavar 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      @@Trebor74 Honestly that makes it even less understandable. "Let's do a show of force by sending 10 *boom* 9 of our Navy's oldest ships that are on the verge of retirement"
      If you're trying to be threatening, you don't send the dregs of your fleet and have them not actually engage any targets. If you're trying to be diplomatic, you don't sail a flotilla of warships into the other side's capital city harbour without permission.
      The only thing that makes sense to me about this is someone wanted a big threatening show of force, and someone in the chain of command between them and Duckworth decided this would definitely start a war if they weren't extremely careful, and thus passed on the orders with so many caveats as to what the flotilla could do that we get a literal fulfillment of the order to make a show of force, while giving strict orders to not show any force and thus not start a war. Which I can see happening back in those days when communication tech was basically messages on ships, horses, or birds and thus rather dramatically slower than I'm used to.

  • @Casmaniac
    @Casmaniac 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +44

    I expected the epic journey of the second Pacific fleet, but I guess that one is too obvious haha

    • @boobah5643
      @boobah5643 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

      He _did_ say there was no attempt at ranking, just five stories he wanted to share. And he's shared the Voyage of the Damned. At length.

    • @tz8785
      @tz8785 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      The second pacific fleet has already had a pair of videos and while not particularly effective, I think they don't qualify for this video as they neither sank each other nor set off a war with Britain.

    • @reneschwab170
      @reneschwab170 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@tz8785 That's right. They almost did, but even failed in this task ...

  • @joshthomasmoorenew
    @joshthomasmoorenew 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +43

    Well if you want own goals the Halsey's constant need to find storms with his face which did more damage to the US Navy then the Japanese in the same time has to be up there

  • @athena139c
    @athena139c 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +35

    The pacific theatre of World War II was a three-way conflict between the Allied Powers, the Imperial Japanese Army, and the Imperial Japanese Navy.

    • @marckyle5895
      @marckyle5895 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      And we really didn't defeat the IJA, did we?

  • @SuperCrazf
    @SuperCrazf 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +20

    I admit if I were Mogami, I would be proud of that pentakill since getting one in a video game in real life is more difficult than it sounds. And Mogami did it like it was nothing

  • @Ensign_Cthulhu
    @Ensign_Cthulhu 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +80

    Duckworth appeared to have been channelling some abstruse variant of Charlotte Bronte.
    Mogami's captain (referencing the World of Warships game) - "Kraken unleashed!"
    Mogami's XO: "Dude, those were ours!"
    Mogami's captain: "They're Army transports."
    Mogami's XO: "Kraken unleashed!"

    • @mitchm4992
      @mitchm4992 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Kraken Unleashed AND Fox in the Henhouse!

    • @Ensign_Cthulhu
      @Ensign_Cthulhu 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@mitchm4992 While technically teamkilling! 🤪

  • @therealuncleowen2588
    @therealuncleowen2588 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    I can't hear about the USS Houston without thinking of William Holden's character, Commander Shears, of the USS Houston.
    Whoa, you blew my mind with the idea that the Migami hit the transports on purpose. Surely it was unintended as she was firing at the Houston. However, once the damage was done, one wonders if the IJN didn't quietly hand out some medals to the men who had struck such a major blow against the true enemy, the IJA.

  • @nk_3332
    @nk_3332 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +25

    This is going to be controversial, but the IJN attack on Pearl Harbor. They proved the effectiveness of carrier aircraft and proceeded to leave the only striking power of the Pacific Fleet as . . . it's aircraft carriers, eliminating any chance for the decisive battle between battlelines to occur in the immediate future, and having the knock on affect of sinking all those battleships in one of the few places within thousands of miles where they would be salvageable.
    So: 1) you thoroughly piss off your enemy
    2) You prove the only weapon they have left is in fact decisive
    3) You sink their battleline where they can be repaired/salvaged.
    4) You invalidate the very strategy you've been working towards for twenty years, by making it impossible for the enemy do play their part. Yet you cannot break out of that mindset yourself.

    • @bkjeong4302
      @bkjeong4302 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      The Japanese WANTED to sink the American carriers at PH: they only didn’t because said carriers were literally not there.
      PH did invalidate the IJN’s own strategy, but not because it made the Americans rely on their carriers (for one, the Kantai Kessen doctrine called for the Japanese to sink all American carriers ahead of the planned surface action anyways rather than seeing them as a nonissue; for another, the USN was still wrongly assuming battleship line engagements were important in fleet actions as late as 1944 according to doctrinal manuals, so in reality BOTH the IJN and the USN failed to realize battleship era was over until it was too late). The real issue was that the Kantai Kessen doctrine was a DEFENSIVE strategic doctrine that relied on the USN coming to attack Japan only to be defeated, but PH and the “strike south” strategy was the exact opposite of this, further causing the USN to fight defensively for the time being (when Japan needed the USN to go on the offensive) and forcing the IJN to take the fight to the enemy.

    • @boobah5643
      @boobah5643 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      @@bkjeong4302 If that's so, it's a matter of the written doctrine not catching up to actual doctrine; the _Montanas_ were cancelled in mid 1943 while carriers were built for the rest of the war. Point is, those books, official as they may have been, didn't reflect where the USN was actually putting its resources, and green paper trumps black and white when it comes to what organizations think are important.

    • @bkjeong4302
      @bkjeong4302 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@boobah5643
      And the IJN suspended battleship construction following Force Z and cancelled it entirely following Midway, so by that logic the IJN realized the battleship era was over in time to stop wasting resources-which they obviously didn’t.
      Even the Montanas being cancelled had more to do with the US not being able to expand the Panama Canal due to the war than with them realizing battleships were obsolete; if they had, they’d have cancelled the Iowas (given that they weren’t that far along construction by the time of PH) and probably the last two SoDaks as well.
      It should also be noted both the IJN and the USN were already planning to significantly expand their carrier forces over a year before PH (the IJN with the Unryus and the USN with the Essexes), yet both still continued to waste resources on battleships at the same time.

    • @kylesmith4426
      @kylesmith4426 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      you said it for me lol
      @@boobah5643

  • @samcruickshanks6856
    @samcruickshanks6856 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I have nothing of historical value or relevant knowledge to add but I do however really want to say thanks to Drachinifel for making his videos and also to just say how much I enjoy them,, they're blumin great if you ask me 😊

  • @Elinbemyname
    @Elinbemyname 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

    Thanks for the upload Drach. A good rum ration is exactly what I needed to wash down the aftertaste of Christmas with the families.

  • @matchesburn
    @matchesburn 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +26

    Japanese Imperial Army Transport Ships: "You missed and hit friendlies!"
    Japanese Navy Ship Mogami: "...Did we though? Really?"

  • @ulrikschackmeyer848
    @ulrikschackmeyer848 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    Seeing a Swedish flag on your starting model, I was rather expecting the WASA. Being a Dane of course I lament not having that wonderful story told again. And again. And again.

  • @TheAtmosfear7
    @TheAtmosfear7 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    Duckworth writing his ultimatum: 🔥🔥🔥✍️🔥🔥🔥

  • @haeppchen1603
    @haeppchen1603 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +20

    The mentioning of Mogami's penta-kill in any kind of video will never not make me laugh.

  • @teekaa2520
    @teekaa2520 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    Spreewald (engl. Spree Forest) is an interesting and unique ecosystem in East Germany. Holiday recommendation for people who like woodlands and casual (slow) kayaking.

  • @bkjeong4302
    @bkjeong4302 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +32

    No mention of San Francisco sinking Atlanta? That has to be in the top five IMO.
    Also, if we’re talking about self-sabotage there’s Arashi at Midway, Aoba at Cape Esperance, Nagato (and both Yamatos, but Nagato actually ended up killing her own side’s aircraft and pilots whereas the Yamatos didn’t) firing at Japanese aircraft during Philippine Sea, Kamchatka and the Second Pacific Squadron in general, Kongo at Samar (did almost none of the damage she supposedly did to Taffy 3 and helped sink Chokai), and (I still stand by this) Iowa and New Jersey getting involved during Operation Hailstone at the expense of their own side’s carriers.
    Edit: Add Won Gyun in general to this, in fact he might be the worst case in history of an admiral screwing over his own navy for no good reason.

    • @ph89787
      @ph89787 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Atlanta: SAN FRANCISCO!!!!! YOU && MORON!!!!
      San Francisco: I didn't know you were there.
      Atlanta: SAN FRANCISCO!!! WHAT THE &^ ARE YOU DOING?!?!?
      San Francisco: I got lost. I didn't know you were ahead of me.
      Atlanta: USE YOUR RADAR!!!!!!!!

    • @bkjeong4302
      @bkjeong4302 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      @@ph89787
      The sad thing is, San Francisco actually got decorated for that fiasco (even if she partly made up for it by mission-killing Hiei later in the battle). Just one example of why naval decorations and honours have little to do with a ship’s actual achievements.

    • @ph89787
      @ph89787 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Rewinding the clock a bit. Hornet’s flight to nowhere at Midway.

    • @DiggingForFacts
      @DiggingForFacts 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      The real question is: did that cost the US part of its colonies and result in the toppling of a centuries-old system of government?

  • @danpoole4915
    @danpoole4915 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Before your inciteful (sic) report, I hadn't realized that Britain had won the war of American independence. Thanks for enlightening me!

  • @colinmartin2921
    @colinmartin2921 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    Wonderful exposition of the way a simple war can turn out to have horrendous ongoing consequences.

  • @hansvonmannschaft9062
    @hansvonmannschaft9062 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Must've happened to some other fellow at least: The section, or fragment actually, in which Admiral Duckworth's letter was read and your subsequent comment, made laugh out loud, to the point where I had to use the captions to learn about what you were saying immediatly afterwards. Oh Lord, what a way to learn and laugh so much at the same time, thank you Drach, thank you dearly, and given it's 31st already, may you have a Happy New Year!

  • @arielmillenniumthornton
    @arielmillenniumthornton 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +17

    Won Gyun should definitely be in a sequel. He managed to completely sabotage his own navy not once but twice: first in response to Japan's initial invasion force landing near Busan at the start of the Imjin War, and again by taking the obvious bait, hook, line, and sinker at the Battle of Chilcheollyang at the start of the subsequent Chongyu War. His ultimate doom both times was decision paralysis at the worst moments.

    • @silentdrew7636
      @silentdrew7636 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Was he the guy that screwed over Admiral Yi?

    • @arielmillenniumthornton
      @arielmillenniumthornton 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      ​@@silentdrew7636 Basically, yes.

    • @ph89787
      @ph89787 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      He was in the Naval Darwin Award video

    • @bkjeong4302
      @bkjeong4302 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Won Gyun was EVEN WORSE than you think.
      To start off with: remember that time when Admiral Yi got fired and almost executed on false charges for not taking a Japanese bait (though it’s debatable if that wasn’t actually a case of the Japanese backstabbing each other)? That was Won Gyun’s doing; he deliberately sent a false report to the government to get rid of Yi for his own career advancement, and the king (who was paranoid for no good reason and just caused himself and his country an incredible amount of trouble as a result) used that as an excuse to get rid of an officer who he wrongly saw as a political threat (Yi didn’t care at all about politics-his entire adult career was spent in the military, first as a cavalry officer and then at sea).
      Even before then, the moron rarely actually fought even in engagements where he was supposed to be under Yi’s command and instead wasted time fishing out dying and dead Japanese sailors and beheading them so he could lie to the government that he and not Yi was the one actually winning battles (because East Asia policy at the time was that enemy casualties were determined by counting heads, which ignores that Yi was so effective in part because he independently created a battleline doctrine that resulted in the enemy being blown up or drowning rather that cut down in boarding actions). He also killed Korean civilians and pretended they were Japanese dead, routinely got drunk on duty (especially after he took over Yi’s job as Supreme Admiral of the Three Provinces, upon which he decided to not bother running the entire Korean navy), and even brought a prostitute into his ship’s cabin (!) and into a combat deployment under Yi (!!) at one point.

    • @mitchm4992
      @mitchm4992 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Won Gyun was in Drach's Darwin Awards video a while back, maybe a year or two now.

  • @Izual001
    @Izual001 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Admiral Halsey sailing into TWO typhoons, the sinking of HMS Victoria after a badly executed turn, and the Battle of May Island are in my top 5 fails list.

  • @AdmRose
    @AdmRose 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    The Russian *3rd* Pacific Squadron, more colloquially known as the “Sink by Itself” fleet, comes to mind.

  • @seanbryan4833
    @seanbryan4833 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

    Mogami also scored another own goal when she rammed the Mikuma at Midway, resulting in the damaged Mikuma being caught and sunk by US carrier planes, but that was not her fault. Mikuma made the turn wrong and went across the path of Mogami, which had executed the turn correctly.

    • @bradenhagen7977
      @bradenhagen7977 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Good old sibling conflict.

  • @chrislong3938
    @chrislong3938 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    13:00 - That sure is a beautiful, surreal painting!

  • @aircraftcarrierwo-class
    @aircraftcarrierwo-class 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    I would ask why Kamchatka isn't on this list, but you already did a rather in-depth set of videos on why that ship would belong here.

    • @lordmontymord8701
      @lordmontymord8701 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      And the Kamchatka is also operating on a completely different level ... that is legendary-status neither the Mogami nor the other examples could reach.

    • @bradenhagen7977
      @bradenhagen7977 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thats not an own goal, thats just playing for the other team the whole game.

  • @ismetyalimalatli7581
    @ismetyalimalatli7581 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    On the geography of Constantiniye(İstanbul today); Kadıköy is not an island, it is the main settlement on the Asian side of the city. Could be concidered a summer dwelling for the time. Not an island.

    • @Drachinifel
      @Drachinifel  11 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      The reports of the time state Duckworth asked for a meeting on an island and the Ottomans replied they would meet "at Kadikioi, on the Asiatic side", so I assumed it would be an island. Happy to be corrected :)

    • @gokbay3057
      @gokbay3057 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      @@Drachinifel Kadıköy might be better known to you by it's Ancient name as Chalcedon.

    • @ismetyalimalatli7581
      @ismetyalimalatli7581 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      @@Drachinifel We may count Kadıköy (Kadikoi or Khalkedon) as a sort of island relative to Konstantiniye since the only possible means of transportation to and from is by boat. Happy to be of assistance.

  • @WillowEpp
    @WillowEpp 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +63

    Genuinely surprised Typhoon Cobra didn't at least rate an honourable mention.

    • @taccovert4
      @taccovert4 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +23

      It rated a whole video shaming Halsey.

    • @rackstraw
      @rackstraw 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +21

      "I know this book. Your conclusions are all wrong, Ryan. Halsey acted stupidly."

    • @seanbigay1042
      @seanbigay1042 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +25

      @@rackstraw I always thought Capt. Ramius was referring to that time Halsey swallowed the bait at Leyte Gulf hook, line and sinker.

    • @rackstraw
      @rackstraw 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +18

      @@seanbigay1042 It was...but Halsey's subsequent actions following the Battle of Cape Engano (taking the Fleet into two typhoons) were questionable at best.

    • @Thirdbase9
      @Thirdbase9 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      ​@@seanbigay1042it could be both.

  • @PaulfromChicago
    @PaulfromChicago 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    16:15 One would think the Americans appreciate French support during the Revolutionary War. But the appreciation was only quasi.

    • @robertmatch6550
      @robertmatch6550 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      We (USA) would not be here without the French but, for Americans, business is business. In our own way we were true to Lafayette.

    • @gbcb8853
      @gbcb8853 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      That comment is definitely… modish

    • @williestyle35
      @williestyle35 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      ​@@robertmatch6550 we were as true to Lafayette as the French people would be in the end.

    • @nmccw3245
      @nmccw3245 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      We appreciate what was done for us and have returned the favor on several occasions.
      We may not always agree, but the bond will always be there.

  • @chriscookesuffolk
    @chriscookesuffolk 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Really enjoyed this holiday treat thanks Drach

  • @TheKencoffee
    @TheKencoffee 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I fully believe that this should become a whole series!!!

  • @wytfish4855
    @wytfish4855 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    does the battle of the red cliff during three kingdom era ancient china count?
    going by memory alone, some general(cao cao's side) had the bright idea of chaining their ships together to (iirc) shelter from heavy wind, despite being told about being sitting ducks if the decision goes through, only to have the opposing side(liu bei + sun quan alliance) exploit the mistake and send fire ships drifting along the wind, right into the fleet, torching the lot of them, ultimately costing them the battle.
    iirc this is also the battle where kong ming tricked boat loads of ready made arrows from cao cao's forces by sailing hay laden boats near cao cao's fleet, taunting them to rain arrows on it

  • @George_M_
    @George_M_ 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    I accidentally repllcated Mogami once or twice in WoWs back in the old days. The rearwards firing arc can make your brain shut off.

  • @robertmatch6550
    @robertmatch6550 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Thank you for these tales of the "tragically amusing". Imbibed with some stir coffee in Winter depths of cold and darkness!

  • @sage5296
    @sage5296 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    If you did another one of these videos I would absolutely watch it. You said there were plenty of naval own-goals and I'd absolutely love to hear more if you ever plan to do another video on these!

  • @johnathanmonkeysmacker420t2
    @johnathanmonkeysmacker420t2 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Did not know “where’s Henry” was a picture finding game back in the day . Take that “where’s Waldo” the Renaissance artists had that on lock down back in the 1500’s-1600’s .

  • @AndrewGivens
    @AndrewGivens 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Seriously, I think the only torpedo attack in history that went worse might have been HMS Trinidad's.
    While defending an Arctic convoy (the aptly-numbered PQ-13) from German surface attack, she totally annihilated one Narvik-class destroyer with her guns, but also decided to launch torpedoes at it.
    Of the three torpedoes in the mount, all were fired - two froze solid in their tubes and the third got away, ran a perfect semi-circle (after the gyro froze) and struck the Trinidad's side abreast the bridge and TT bank (which fell off the ship from the damage). The transmitting station deep in the hull was flooded with fuel oil and everyone in there perished.
    Although she made it to Murmansk and was patched up, on her return journey, Trinidad's scab was blown in by a near-miss from a Ju-88's bombs, resulting in yet more flooding from her own self-inflicted torpedo wound, and her subsequent abandonment and loss.
    Way to use torpedoes.

  • @HugoOlsson-y4h
    @HugoOlsson-y4h 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Talking of own goals, I believe the Gauntlet of Viborg in 1790 (or more specifically the exploits of the Swedish ensign Sandel and his fireship, Postiljonen) are worth mentioning.
    Briefly, both the Swedish sailing fleet and the rowing fleet had got themselves pent up in the innermost corner of the gulf of Finland. The Russian navy was blockading the exits from Viborg bay and the combined Swedish fleets had to break out by running the gauntlet straight through the russian line of battle.
    After waiting a few days for an easterly wind, the Swedish battlefleet started its attempt to break out. The operation went well and the ships of the van and center were able to pass through the russian line pretty much unmolested.
    Enter ensign Sandel, who was dead drunk and in command of the fireship Postiljonen. The fireship was being towed by the ship of the line Enigheten. As the story goes, Sandel called out to the captain of Enigheten: "Should I set fire to my ship?", and received the reply "Do not set fire to your ship!". Unfortunately, Sandel did not catch the first few words of the reply - and promptly set Postiljonen alight.
    The fire quickly spread to Enigheten, and from Enigheten to the nearby frigate Zemire. Both ships burnt violently until they blew up with the loss of all hands.
    That was only the beginning of the disaster, however. The smoke from the burning ships spread across the bay and reduced visibilty to almost nothing. This was not a problem for the russians, who had anchored their ships across the mouth of the bay. The swedes fared much worse. Three (or four, depending on source) ships of the line and two frigates ran aground and were lost. A further two ships of the line were captured in the pursuit after the breakout.
    All in all a third of the Swedish sailing fleet had been lost.
    (Fortunately, the rowing or "army" fleet had used another exit from the bay and came out of the battle without taking excessive losses - a week later it inflicted a decisive defeat on its Russian counterpart at the second battle of Svensksund.)

  • @tommyirvine5261
    @tommyirvine5261 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Well done Drach, another fine year of content. 😄

  • @cdcdrr
    @cdcdrr 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    My nomination for naval own-goals: the Kamchatka. Just... the Kamchatka.

  • @buonafortuna8928
    @buonafortuna8928 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Great job again Drach. Happy holidays mate.

  • @benterbenter9281
    @benterbenter9281 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    The last one is not an own goal. It was just not the enemy they were aiming at, but their mortal enemy.

  • @animal16365
    @animal16365 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +17

    The 1st Dardenelle Expidition sounded way to familiar (The ottoman forts were in a run-down condition). That's sounds awfully familiar......

    • @glenchapman3899
      @glenchapman3899 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      I was recently watching a documentary on the Napoleonic wars and they began talking of this incident. My first reaction was did I click on a WW1 documentary lol

    • @danasmith3288
      @danasmith3288 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      Who ever said, "history never repeats itself?"

    • @alexandermonro6768
      @alexandermonro6768 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      ​@@danasmith3288 People who don't study history?
      We should be OK around here, then! :)

    • @АртурМилкович
      @АртурМилкович 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      oooooo

    • @ROBERTN-ut2il
      @ROBERTN-ut2il 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@danasmith3288 It does repeat itself, first as tragedy then as farce - Some guy named Mark

  • @timclaridge7455
    @timclaridge7455 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Duckworth's letter to the Sultan; Sir Humphrey Appleby approves😂

  • @ditzydoo4378
    @ditzydoo4378 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    So, when the enemy isn't quite cutting the mustard. a bright spark calls out "hold my grog" then proceeds and attempt to do in their own ship.

  • @braddonovan1786
    @braddonovan1786 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    We need more of this series

  • @Riccardo_Silva
    @Riccardo_Silva 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    In the words of an italian naval historian, Professor Alberto Santoni, Admiral Angelo Jachino was not used to show any proclivity in criticizing too bitterly other italian admirals: however, his reconstruction of the Battle of Lissa in his book "La campagna navale di Lissa, 1866", shows quite a number of reasons about why that battle might be considered an own goal.

  • @jerryharlowe9209
    @jerryharlowe9209 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    EXCELLENT . . . thank you for the continued fine presentations

  • @MechFrankaTLieu
    @MechFrankaTLieu 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    YEAH that salvo from Mogami got to be the most effective torp salvo ever ..

  • @tmorganriley
    @tmorganriley 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Speaking as an American: yes, we appreciate it still today (though that may be because I am a Virginian, and the Battle of the Chesapeake is our second-most-remembered naval battle after Hampton Roads). We even have a road, etc. named after Rochambeau. That said, we also consider that we DID finally repay the French for their assistance in the 1770s, specifically in 1917-1918 and in 1944-45. (Though that didn't really do anything to help their navy in either case, though... )

    • @ROBERTN-ut2il
      @ROBERTN-ut2il 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      The DD USS Comte de Grasse existed (there was also a USS Winston Churchill)

  • @Archie2c
    @Archie2c 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +23

    I also heard the Australians call the American Revolution as "The War of the Insurrection"

    • @MyPancakeMan
      @MyPancakeMan 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

      We're just jealous that there's was successful.

    • @wierdalien1
      @wierdalien1 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      ​@MyPancakeMan you guys didn't even try

    • @classifiedad1
      @classifiedad1 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      @@wierdalien1 I think they did, the Eureka Rebellion. It wasn't nearly as successful or wide-scale as ours, but they had a go at it.

    • @DavisJ-ln6fw
      @DavisJ-ln6fw 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

      Well not everyone can convince the French to do all their fighting for them. @@wierdalien1

    • @wierdalien1
      @wierdalien1 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      @@DavisJ-ln6fw fair

  • @DarthAverage
    @DarthAverage 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    40:35 .... I believe the term is "circular firing squad" .. 😏

  • @YTMegiddo
    @YTMegiddo 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I never put the two together. France helping us and being crushed because of it. Another great video!

  • @ianpunter4486
    @ianpunter4486 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    My father and 4 of his brothers were in 'exempt' trades at the start of WW2. Nonetheless all volunteered, as 'HOs', 'Hostilities Only'. One uncle survived at least 2 grim arctic convoy trips to Murmansk, in RN destroyers. My dad was trained in gunnery, and served in 5 or 6 'armed trawlers', including a spell in Alexandria, where he said he was extremely seasick inspecting the harbour defences at night, in a rowing boat armed with a small torch, looking for frogmen's bubbles.
    All 5 brothers survived the war, but my Dad's ship/boat/trawler, was sunk, near Lundy, by a 'friendly' torpedo. No casualties!

  • @RCAvhstape
    @RCAvhstape 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    My picks for self-owns would be Halsey's Typhoon Follies, and maybe the MK 14 torpedo fiasco.

  • @johnking6252
    @johnking6252 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    the Treaty of Paris takes on a different perspective with your story of the American revolution......thx. 👍🇺🇲

  • @captainjoshuagleiberman2778
    @captainjoshuagleiberman2778 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I know you covered the RCN already, but you could delve into the incidents in 1941 and 1942 that both required it to withdraw temporarily from the Battle of the Atlantic but caused it to gain its nickname the Royal Collision Navy.

  • @foo219
    @foo219 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I think I remember reading about the accidental sinking of the blockade runner in captain Detmer's memoirs. He didn't like that sort of unnecessary loss of life.

  • @lovelessissimo
    @lovelessissimo 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    I would put the Mark 6 detonator on this list.

  • @theduchyofmilanball3157
    @theduchyofmilanball3157 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The bonne hom richard's devastating salvo... against itself springs to mind.

  • @GuysGuideService479
    @GuysGuideService479 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I need to sleep, this is too good and it’s keeping me awake. I’ll be back tomorrow morning lol

  • @JasperKlijndijk
    @JasperKlijndijk 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Haven't even heard the first and I already want more than five of these

  • @jameswebb4593
    @jameswebb4593 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +28

    Surely the American Penobscot expedition of 1779 against the British . The biggest USN defeat in their history , greater then Pearl in ships lost. Is a story the world should hear.

    • @josepetersen7112
      @josepetersen7112 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

      The only issue being that a lot of those ships were not much larger, if any, then WW2 era landing craft. In this regard, the invasion of Saipan was also greater in ships lost total then Pearl was. That said, losing 44 ships in one go was a pretty bad run for the Americans.

    • @jameswebb4593
      @jameswebb4593 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@josepetersen7112 The size of the vessels are not as important as the outcome. It would be stupid to compere the Greek and Persian fleets in the battle Salamis to American Pacific vessels. With the British and Greeks it was decisive victories , that's all that counts.

  • @mk-jf1ux
    @mk-jf1ux 9 วันที่ผ่านมา

    this my favorite drach video so far!

  • @kkupsky6321
    @kkupsky6321 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Omg I just got done a hard day and I totally forgot I was due a Wednesday rum ration. Vodka is ok too. Thanks drach. Made the day.

  • @agesflow6815
    @agesflow6815 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thank you, Drachinifel.

  • @HumanityisEmbarrassing
    @HumanityisEmbarrassing 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Could I just say, thank you Drach. You really do have a fantastic aptitude for storytelling, and your videos are THE highlight of TH-cam. That is all.

  • @nvelsen1975
    @nvelsen1975 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    38:12 Ah that's okay. Kortenaer is written in an older archaic form of Dutch writing from the 17th century. Whenever there's an AE, it's basically AA.
    Also coincidentally, the guy the ship is named after was a lieutenant-admiral who celebrated his release from captivity in a pub in such a way that he ended up being arrested despite his station.
    ....So basically Kortenaer should've been granted honourary British citizenship. 😉

  • @HughLyon-Sack
    @HughLyon-Sack 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    USS Tang was also sunk by a "friendly" torpedo. However, in her case it was HER OWN torpedo!

    • @marckyle5895
      @marckyle5895 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      The very definition of a Self-Own.

  • @chippysteve4524
    @chippysteve4524 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Your account of the Mary Rose and how she sank is completely different to the yarn I was told as a boy in the cadets,where all the crew rushed to one side of the ship when leaving port to wave to their loved ones and onlookers,over-balancing,on her maiden voyage.
    Royal Navy hubris or a bored sailor having a laugh at our expense, I imagine!
    Either way,it seems like another good example of the oxymoron we wryly refer to as military intelligence.

  • @FirestormMk3
    @FirestormMk3 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    That was a fun list. The second one feels more like state policy and the navy doing its job just with unfortunate geopolitical results as opposed to an engineering, logistical, or tactical blunder by the navy though. I learned a lot though because I didn't know about the last three.

  • @empath69
    @empath69 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    We have a 'Duckworth Street' in our city, in the old downtown...
    ...it's traditionally where all the law offices are located.
    Now I know why.

  • @revelationsix
    @revelationsix 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    One vote for the Swedish Battleship Vasa, the most expensive battleship ever built for that time, that sank in a crosswind on her maiden voyage - just a mile from harbor.

    • @bkjeong4302
      @bkjeong4302 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Adjusted for inflation Vasa is actually the most expensive warship ever constructed by a huge margin.

  • @jagerdergroe8604
    @jagerdergroe8604 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

    I wonder if the Kamchatka will make an appearance?

    • @JasperKlijndijk
      @JasperKlijndijk 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      You have to be accepted by your country to make a own goal. The camchatca is an rejected outcast following the Russian squadron

    • @ernestcline2868
      @ernestcline2868 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      Causing your admiral to run out of binoculars is at most worth a dishonorable mention.

    • @hart-of-gold
      @hart-of-gold 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      It is hiding from the Japanese torpedo boats. They're everywhere.

    • @SonOfAB_tch2ndClass
      @SonOfAB_tch2ndClass 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      dO yOu SeE tOrPeDo BoAts!?

  • @Shot-Kal-Gimel
    @Shot-Kal-Gimel 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I now like Mogami even more than I did prior (Kancolle player, she was my first CA and my first aviation vessel). Both getting to own the IJA (always good IMO), hurting Japans war as a whole, and having the most successful torpedo salvo.

  • @anarionelendili8961
    @anarionelendili8961 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    Somewhat disagreed on the French participation on the American War of Independence. It is more of a strategic defeat, but it is not due to the French Navy as such, but mostly the decision to get involved in the first place AND both the war not going quite as well as they had hoped and the Americans turning to make nice with the Brits afterwards, too. The loss of the American Colonies did weaken the British Empire, it is just that the French got clobbered by their own Revolution.

    • @Drachinifel
      @Drachinifel  11 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      Well, to sustain French troops etc in the US required the Navy, and most of the surrounding campaigns (taking Carribean colonies, trying to invade the UK, various fights in and around India) were either mainly or entirely naval campaigns. The cost of running the navy was a big chunk of those expenses and losses at the Saintes and various Ushants were some of the biggest ticket costs as well. Overall, the cost of the naval operations plus the navy not coming off too well from it set the fuse for the French Revolution, at least to my mind, but of course your mileage may very :)

    • @anarionelendili8961
      @anarionelendili8961 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@Drachinifel I get your point, but I still think that the blunder is the decision to join the war in the first place, made at higher echelons of Ancien Regime, rather than anything that the French Navy did. :)
      If I'd be looking for Naval Blunders in the AWI, I'd be more inclined to say letting Washington and his army escape Brooklyn or not breaking the blockade of Yorktown, which served to lose the AWI for the British.

    • @mikehimes7944
      @mikehimes7944 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Everyone forgets France immediately started making demands and planning to overthrow our government. The xyz affair ended any influence the Jefferson led francophiles had.

    • @tremendousbaguette9680
      @tremendousbaguette9680 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I would ask, what is the part of the RNs costs of operations of the Seven Years War in the British debt that led to the American insurrection? I believe there should have been, if not a straight parallel, at least a tentative comparison between the two sets of events.