Hey everyone! Thank you all for watching and enjoying the video. But I want to reiterate to please DO NOT HARASS XiaoLongMedia ABOUT THIS. Criticize her video, maybe even send this one to her if prompted, but don't bother her. The video is old and her opinions on the ship may have changed. And even if not, be civil. Agree to disagree. Thank you.
Yo kaiser, so I'm not gonna watch Xiao long production's whole video, but from the clip you showed of it, it just seems like you may have misunderstood something. So your point is that she shouldn't be defending Bumblebee by saying that the reason people don't like it is because it's gay. But she isn't saying that people dislike the ship because it's two women. IN FACT, she's not even talking about people disliking the ship at all in the provided clip! What she IS talking about is people being less likely to interpret Blake and Yang's relationship as romantic one because they are both women. Create a scene in which two female characters of the same age hug and hold each other's hands while solemnly gazing at each other when they finally meet after a long time or something for example. Now change one of the characters' gender to male and the likelihood of their relationship being interpreted as a romantic one by the larger audience skyrockets. Similar to how those classic "Galpal", "they were roommates" and "they were just really good friends'' jokes point out how straight relationships have a much higher chance of being interpreted as romantic ones in comparison to relationships between people of the same gender. NEVER is homophobia or "disliking" a ship because it's gay at play as an argument, because there never WAS an argument for people disliking the ship in the first place in the clip. "More people would *interpret* that Blake had feelings for Yang if Blake was a man." THAT is her point. NOT: "More people would *like/accept* that Blake had feelings for Yang if Blake was a man." And unless you consider the former to be homophobia, (going by the clip you showed in the video) she was never calling anyone a bigot. She was never talking about people's inability to accept a gay ship, she was talking about people's inability to realize the fact it was there in the first place.
@@En_Jaay But either way, its a bad argument. because she is presupposing that this bias is impeding peoples ability to realize that the ship was even happening in the first place. Everyone and their grandmother has already explained why the first 3 volumes did a poor job at establishing how close Yang and Blakes relationship was and said similar criticisms to other ships in other media. Maybe it would face less skepticism if it were a straight pairing, but its hard to quantify how significant that actually is. It's a distinction without a difference and unless she could adequately prove why its obvious the ship was being set up in the first 3 volumes (spoilers: she didn't), this argument being applied to possibly a wide group of people just needlessly poisons the well. If what you say is true and she's talking about the levels people could even PERCEIVE the ship even happening due to unconscious bias, that's arguably worse than saying that its bad due to unconscious bias. You are presupposing that people aren't paying attention. Has this happened in the past? Yes. Does it still happen on some level? Maybe (I wouldn't doubt it, but I need some significant recent examples). But given how far we have progressed, peoples reactions to other ships (both straight AND gay), and how that applies to RWBY, I fail to see any reason to bring that up as an argument in favor of Bumblebee.
Not to mention it can be applies RIGHT BACK AT HER. "You only perceive these scenes as intimate or potentially romantic or building towards a close relationship because of your unconscious bias in favor of LGBT+ content. You would be less likely to view these things as such, if you did not have this bias." Its bad either way.
i think Weiss had more romanic potential with Yang. Weiss been on the motorcycle and met Yang's mother. Blake was 100% set up for Sun but than some writer said fuck that and wrote Sun out of the seres completely.
The "you just this ship because bigotry" is an argument that has thankfully become stale as time goes on. Though it still crocks up every now and then. But I would also say that the insistance on whether people like/hate Bumblebee, because of the sexuality, is such a dishonest way to shut down the arguments people have made. I've seen more people criticise Bumblebee for its bad pacing, suddenness and removal of Black Sun in order to prop up a ship that "fans" wanted, without going near the genders/sexualities of the parties involved. To me Bumblebee is just a prime example of when writers let their fans decide whats best for the plot and characters, rather than keep consistency
While I disagree with them jumping ship from Black Sun due to fan outrage, I fully agree with the rest of your point. Bringing up unconscious biases that are impossible to prove only hurts discussion
@@KaiserShounen I mean, you'd have to come up with a reason why they spent 5 volumes building up a ship, only to deconstruct it and build a completely different one in half a volume. EDIT: Although personally I also think it was an attempt to distance themselves from The Allegations about Rooster Teeth, if indirectly.
@@murderalphabetinc.5162 even if it wasn't there to avoid outrage by Bumblebee stans. It does seem awfully convenient for Bumblebee specifically to be ship they go with and not Black Sun. Regardless I had completely forgot about the shady shit RT had been accused of/gotten involved in. In any case, the person I always feel sorry for is Monty
In short to make the video into a few seconds conclusion.... Bumblebee was never the intended ship nor does it have any foreshadow within Vol 1-3 as RWBY writing goes off the railing after Monty passing and RT made things became very blurry on what was their intention so the fans was left with only theories until the later volume's. There you go, Enjoy.
I don't hate Bumblebee because of lesbians (as I am one). I hate Bumblebee because it's an extremely toxic and self-destructive relationship towards Yang, especially. You don't pair up someone with abandonment issues with someone with commitment issues. All Therapists worth their salt would say the same!
tbh if the writers were good and realized Bumblebee was toxic they could have done something interesting with it. Have the girls eventually realize they aren't good for each other and break up. But said writers have negative self-awareness so obviously they just ignore all that.
@@Karxridathat would honestly be a really great way of doing it but sadly that would require a self awareness the characters - and the writers - don’t have.
Besides being bad faith, it's also really bad argumentation to just immediately assume your detractors are motivated by bigotry, without taking their arguments into account. Cuz you're right, if it's possible to dislike a straight pairing, then the claim that "people would like Bumblebee if they were straight" only holds up if the pairing is still well written. So then you have to ask yourself: are the arguments against BB ones that would hold up regardless if it was straight or not? And I don't think that was taken into account. These kinds of accusations never make the discussion more productive (at least not without SynthMan-levels of proof that point to bigoted motivation) It's just much better for the discussion to assume the best of the people you're arguing against and focus on arguments until you can conclude anything otherwise.
The other problem with that argument is that there's an underlying ideological justification for it, which starts with the premise that our society is de facto ingrained with heteronormative biases that reinforce oppression of non-hetero people. If that bias is always there, then it means it will always be there, until it isn't. It's not a falsifiable position if you could "predict" heteronormative bias at any point in time because you've already supposed it's always there.
@@kmgyening And even THEN its hardly relevant in a discussion about the objective quality of Bumblebee. By that same token, we can argue that rabid fans of the ship have a normative bias for anything LGBT, presuposing that that bias will always be there and thus, any discussion to be had would be pointless. Its a bad argument that only starts fighting. We need to do better.
@KaiserShounen I strongly agree with you. Not to harp on that stuff too much, but you just reminded me of a video I watched covering unconscious bias from white people against POC. The same counterargument could be applied to POC in that regard: do we just assume they never hold unconscious biases toward white people even if we believe they're oppressed by white-dominant society? Wouldn't they have just cultivated that bias from strong personal investment in some other values? Like you said though, it's not conducive to discussing the merits of how the actual ship is written and just derails into pointless fighting.
@@kmgyening Well of course, the argument on their side would be that such unconscious biases aren't harmful BECAUSE they are oppressed. Which, while can be true in some cases, I find to be quite toxic in others. Especially in the context of discussions.
@Athorment I mean...no, there are some romances that are the focus of the story or individual arcs. Like Tangled for example wouldn't work without the romance since the romance is the story.
As a Naruto fan myself, even someone who actually thinks Sakura's pretty okay (not great, but not *terrible*), I was absolutely blown away by the comparison of Bumblebee to SasuSaku. Thank you Mr Media Analyst Mega Man X
I swear the amount of times I’ve been called a homophobe for saying bumblebee wasn’t planned from the beginning despite being a bi woman is crazy. Not only that, but bb fans will go apeshit if you ship Yang or Blake with anyone else. I’ve had bb fans tell me to kill my self just because l ship freezerburm 💀
Es curioso que sus fans son todo lo contrario a lo que predica su propio ship igual no les des importancia a eso y sigue con tu vida que es mejor, que preocuparse por una pareja que ni existe 👍
Given the multiple betrayals of trust committed by Blake to Yang combined with Yang’s temper, that would have been a more realistic response. At least a few hits to get the message across that Yang hates what Blake did and any friendship they had is on the rocks.
The craziest part about the argument of “You primarily dislike this because of a subconscious bias” is that the Avatar fandom is starting to use this foul argument. About a month or two ago, I saw a Twitter post arguing that if Korra were a dude, 80% of people wouldn’t hate her character, the implication being that we hate Korra for being a girl. And yeah, it’s insulting to be told that you only dislike a character because of their identity, rather than the fact that they’re poorly written and that the minority population they represent deserve better media representation. And there were a good number of replies and quote tweets to that Korra post that just reflected the bias right back, saying that 80% of Korra defenders would stop defending her if she was a dude. It didn’t actually push the conversation, it just halted the conversation because it’s a bad argument.
Sadly, it's not just RWBY and Avatar, and this goes FAR beyond just shipping or a character's gender. To summarize my own comment, "you don't like something because they're different" is a common double-standard among these types of fans. Not helped that some of those fans may criticize other characters who share similar core writing issues with the very characters those same fans defend. And it's not specific to one particular side of a fandom, since you can see this anywhere (prequels vs sequels fans, DCEU vs MCU fans, etc.). It's like the horseshoe theory. Except with fandoms instead of political parties.
Well in Korras case that was actually a problem the "fanbase" had, that Korra is a girl that was a legit negative for ALOT of people so although It's not relevant now It was a absolutely relevant arguement just few years back before Avatar and LoK blew up again
@@KaiserShounen I imagine with the shuttering of RTs doors and the fact the RWBY IP will be on the back burner of wiz media from a while will allow the toxic members of the fandom to slowly trickle out via losing interest over time. Maybe the series might get a reboot in the future that will fix a lot of the issues of the original series.
2:22-2:41 “Maybe YOU can still frame this as platonic…but if WE stripped all this back…would WE dismiss the romantic connotation of these scenes so easily? I doubt it.” Xiao doesn’t make an argument here only constructing a RWBY fan that she thinks would crumble at her hypothetical question. 7:59-8:04 I’ve seen a BMLB shipper that wanted that for purely superficial reasons. 8:10-8:11 B̶u̶t̶ ̶w̶e̶ ̶w̶o̶u̶l̶d̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶B̶o̶r̶u̶t̶o̶ 11:01-11:28 Because people won’t presuppose that Sarcastic Chorus has an “implicit bias” against straight people. 11:43-11:47 It’s probably due to other shippers PS: The first nineteen minutes of Xiao's video being solely conjecture felt like a waste of time to anyone wanting to be convinced about BMLB.
You see this is just ridiculous. They're basically trying to play a victim card in order to silence detractors. Like gender is supposed to be a shield for being a bad person or being a bad relationship in this case. Personally my opinion on the ship will remain the same regardless if it were hetero or lesbian. The ship itself was created by destroying one character, erasing another character, and basically taking two of your main characters and devolving them into one poorly written character. I mean seriously Blake and yang have no story after volume 6.
Oh yeah, that's especially prominent in Volumes 7 and 8, when Blake and Yang apparently had nothing much to do themselves, now that neither of them had any personal antagonists left (those being the White Fang, Raven, and Adam). I mean...there were things they could have done during their in Solitas. Blake could have been shown helping mend the human/Faunus relations, at least down in Mantle; or even helping Weiss in uncovering Jacques's underhanded secrets. And Yang? Well, when Ironwood relapsed from Cinder's bluff and asserted absolute command...his plan might seem to her like a bigger version of Raven's game plan (prioritizing one relatively small group's survival, while condemning the rest of the world), and she could have called that out.
Finally someone calls her video out. When I first saw it, I was so confused at all her……… points? It was pretty obvious RT made it canon because it was such a popular ship and needed it for the ratings 😒
Lol, that worked well. Instead of ratings, they got a fractured fandom. Which played significant role in the decline of the show, and the eventual end of RT.
BumbleBee suffers the same problems that a lot of ships suffer. The ship strips on them of previous goals and personality so that the two can fawn over each other. This can sometimes happen in otherwise good ships, but Bumblebee's probably the worst example of this.
Is it any wonder that a lot of popular Yaoi ships from shows like Voltron, Naruto, Durarara, Tokyo Ghoul, Young Justice and Attack on Titan never became canon to begin with?
@@samflood5631 Vorona is awesome. I haven't seen the anime yet nor interacted with the community, but I've heard tales of how much the ShiZaya shippers wish for Vorona's death. It's a bit embarrassing
Ten years ago, I remember someone responding to me with an accusation of homophobia because I argued that Korrasami was poorly developed. My position hasn't changed on that since, but when I watched "Hibike! Euphonium" a few months ago and saw what looked like a romantic connection between two female characters, I liked it, thought it was cute, and was interested to see where it would go in the anime's two seasons. Turns out they didn't end up together and may not have even been LGBT in the first place, but I saw what looked like a bunch of romantic implications from the way they interacted with each other and STILL ended up thinking, "this is better than Korrasami."
And you know what? Thats fine (presumably cause I never watched Hibike) Point is, you can like and dislike what you want, and everyone's bias is different.
I like Korrasami, but I’m not out telling people off for thinking it wasn’t well-developed… Really, I just liked the atmosphere of those characters and so I filled in the blanks. I also got out of RWBY Volume 1 (years later) thinking Weiss/Blake was the direction… and liking it.
@borjankosarac3645 Yea like, I wouldn't have had a problem with Korrasami if I saw more development from them in the show. Also, I LIKE the idea of White Rose, even though it's not in the show.
I don’t know, but I do have other anime/video game/cartoon couples that are better than Bumblebee for fans to fall back to. Example 1. Denji x Reze/Asa from Chainsaw Man 2. Gambit x Rogue from X-Men 3. Kaneki x Touka from Tokyo Ghoul 4. Trevor x Sypha from Castlevania 5. Loid x Yor from Spy x Family 6. Akira x Shizuka from Zom 100 7. Alphen x Shionne from Tales of Arise 8. Tidus x Yuna from Final Fantasy X 9. Clive x Jill from Final Fantasy 16 10. All of the romances in the Dragon Age Series 11. All of the romances in Fire Emblem Awakening and Three Houses 12. All of the romances in Baldur’s Gate 3
As I mentioned in a similar video to this, Bumblebee is obviously not planned and done purely for brownie points because they paired Yang (A person with known Abandonment issues stemming her biological mother running away and her adopted mother Summer dying) with Blake (A person whose go to response when it comes to problems in her life, her parents, the White Fang, Adam, RWBY, Sun, etc, is to run away from them) And the show NEVER Addresses this obvious issue. Any relationship between these two is basically the definition of unhealthy.
I applaud you for being the bigger man. I am not someone who can forgive or forget. My argument against the ship has always been the bad writing surrounding it and not supporting the pairing properly. Something that gets regularly dismissed by people who argue against me using such poor arguments in bad faith and excusing the poor writing that didn't just cause the support in RWBY to drop, but ended the studio. Rooster Teeth is done and dusted. The studio was officially closed by WBDiscovery a week or two ago. There are still people out there who are holding out hope that the core writing team are shopping around in hopes of getting a volume 10 of their garbage. I am one of those who clapped back at the collaboration of 'calm your tits' specifically because I CANNOT excuse the bad writing and refuse to compromise in an age where bad quality writing in favor of virtue signaling is the order of the day. In the years since that collab, so many promising projects or existing one have tanked EXACTLY because they were trying to compromise or just exist on bad quality writing. I cannot forgive. I cannot forget. And that is why. I can appreciate the sentiment. Unity does bring people together and make them stronger. But there is something to be said in regard to how this zealous obsession you hoped most BMBY supporters didn't have (I'm sorry to say is true) contributed to the downfall of a promising IP.
I too believe bumbleby was a contributing factor to the downfall of not only rwby itself but also roosterteeth. They kept putting a bunch of their eggs in that basket, due to tumblrinas that migrated to twitter/X who were never truly fans of rwby to begin with that only demanded bumbleby just cause, and look where it got them, shut down. If they had just let blacksun be a thing and not tamper with team rwby's sisterhood dynamic, keeping it as a group of bestfriends with a sisterly bond, maybe we wouldn't need to say a ship killed the show.
I can definitely understand where you're coming from. I've had similar experiences with fans of SW when discussing the quality of the stories they like, stories which I have brought up typical inconsistencies and other criticisms. And each time (whether it'd be the 2008 Clone Wars cartoon, or the sequels, or the EU, or ESPECIALLY the prequels), my arguments were usually about how bad the writing was, and I've been gaslit in the past because of it. Others recently have suggested for me to take a break, but even then, the circumstances surrounding that were not pleasing, i.e. dealing with another prequel fanatic saying I only "bitch and moan" about everything, I have "unconscious sinister intentions" when I gave actual proof to show I treated others with respect, etc. As such, I have no hopes for dealing with SW. Most of it a piece of shit before AND after Disney bought the franchise, because of its poor characterization/worldbuilding/storytelling, not adhering to established continuity or even the spirit of previous works, etc. Their simps who defend this nonsense, especially to the point of harassing and insulting other people to not make themselves feel so insecure, are just as bad. There is a reason why the SW fandom is seen as so toxic (but not for the reasons the media make it out to be). As for RT, I'm glad it has gone downhill to show the fruits of its hubris.
La pareja no causo el quiebre de la compañía, eso se venía adviertiendo desde hace tiempo está pareja solo hizo que se clavara más clavos al ataúd. Principalmente porque le pusieron empeño a personas que no consumían su contenido dejando relegado a gente que estuvo con ellos desde sus inicios gente que dejó de consumir contenido cuando se volvieron aún más empresariales de manera mala. Intentando ser exclusivos pero con contenido que ni ellos veían. Rwby de hecho fue unas de las pocas franquicias que al menos los mantenía relevantes, pero era la misma franquicia se iba a lo seguro y nunca tomaban algún riesgo respecto a su estatus
@@yoeldaldovo5743 See this is the kind of bad faith argument I'm talking about. I get your point that there was bad financial management of the series. That's true. But let me ask you "how did things get bad enough that they had to resort to the poor management they did?" Again your point about their pursuit of the mythical 'wider audiance' holds up but the ACTUAL CAUSE of why they felt they had to pursue this nonexistant audience driving away the one they had was due to the pandering. The very pandering in which they were pushing BMBY to begin with. Look at Vol 9. Not only were they expecting the Crunchyroll subscriptions to bankroll them through Vol 9 but also Vol 10. In addition they had a whole BMBY merch line ready to go the second they got 'The Kiss' or 'The Big Payoff' for that ship. They were expecting the money printer and viewcount to skyrocket with this ship to leverage their axing with a high risk that WBD wasn't going to take. But the pandering didn't work because the ship and the writing around it was trash. End result? No Vol 10 and ironically the series ended with the Ship that sank it. You're not entirely wrong but your line of thinking didn't go back far enough.
@@graveyardshift6691soy consciente de la mala escritura que manejaban y si bien es un bueno punto en cual concordamos la pareja no era rentable a largo plazo principalmente por la falta de contenido que tiene rwby.ademas no solo fueron RT lo que influyeron en su quiebre y no se si lo mencionan esto. O mí información sea equivocada. Pero al a mayoría de la responsabilidad o un poco de esa culpa en ese mal movimiento la tienen sus actrices de voces. Tanto arryn como bárbara tuvieron algo de crédito en si también puede que ayan presionado al equipo siendo barba ceo de la compañía no se me hace raro que ambas propusieran la idea con el objetivo de sacar rédito económico del mismo vamos ahí están las pruebas. El podcast,el only fans,la mercancía que se promocionaba desde hace tanto tiempo, o el hecho de que las pocas veces en donde bárbara habla sobre la situación del la empresa sea más que nada en sentido en donde parece que ella también se le será afectada su bolsillo. y si bien quizás juzgó mal a las actrices son cosas que no puede dejar pasar Tu comentario está bastante acertado no fui muy específico acerca de su situación económica o financiera para que te des una idea a qué me refiero.
Here is my problem with this argument at 2:40: 1. What unconscious bias leads to people overlooking homosexual romances rather than hetereosexual romances? 2. This sounds like a bad faith argument that generalizes people as subconciously homophobic. This is a very difficult argument for her to make as a Film and Television graduate from university. While it is true that media consumption and criticism and someone's personal biases can play a role (see also: Media Encoding theory and Wants and Gratifications theory), I am very skeptical of those without a degree in psychology who make this argument. 3. This fails to address actual problems in the Bumblebee ship as Kaiser has argued in Bumblebee: Too Little Too Late and in several Team JYCT streams. 4. What about the fact that several lesbian romantic pairings have recieved critical acclaim over the years for being well written? Mage and Demon Queen, anyone? 5. The notion that people are unconciously homophobic is questionable considering the amount of polling over the years (in Western countries, mind you) that has consistently shown a high degree of support for homosexuality and gay marraige. Personal story, I live in a rural area of British Columbia that consistently has voted for right-wing parties, and yet I have seen no opposition to a gay pride parade.
Lo más irónico es no importa el género si no como este está construido o argumentado. Siempre va a ser la diferencia sobre encima del género en cuestión. Lo que mucha gente al parecer no entiende como alguien que está en el mundo de la escritura y quiere escribir historias. La razón de porque una pareja resulta ser mejor que otra será porque nos creemos de lleno que de verdad están enamorados porque la obra lo trata así quiere que te creas de verdad eso. Y para eso siempre hay un proceso de causa y efecto el porque están enamorados y eso se plantea desde un inicio porque el suponer haría eso.rwby no es una obra tan compleja y no pone siempre los elementos necesarios para que se suponga que tal cosa paso por eso es que aveces sentimos que tal obra es carente de sentido. Porque nunca hubo planteamiento al respecto y jamás se deja en claro esa intención
the Xiaolong video was really bad it suffers from a lot of the same or similar issues that Xel writers video on bumble bee has just a lot of poor arguments, lack of evidence and 90% of it just devolving into headcanon desperately convincing themselves that the ship was some planned out thing to make it look as good as possible in there mind also her demeanor comes off very poor in alot of the video.
Damn I didn't found her video back. I commented long ago that the platonic pairing is real and was really cool. Shipping didn't have to come in the show and I tried to respectfully said it. I probably didn't word it well back then but I think my point still stand today : Bumblebee was bad and even if one of them was a male character it doesn't matter. The relationship is bad plain and simple Hostility is rampant when this topic is addressed honestly because they wanted to shield everything with homophobia. Be it hate or criticism. Vi and Caitlin was done right imo. That's the difference
Hola soy del fandom latino y Me sorprende que la mitad del publico que vio la serie coincide en que la pareja se siente forzada y presentada en el momento menos indicado. No solo esta parte del globo tienen esta opinion si no también mayoria de la gente que habla español incluyéndome si bien hay excepciones son de hecho pocas de las personas que vi a las cuales me dieron algun argumento de porque no esta forzada o mal escrita. Porque de verdad si esta pareja hubiera sido planeada su ejecución hubiera sido mejor y ciertos baches no hubieran estado. Como las casi pocas interacciones de yang y blake que dan a entender solo una amistad y no algo mas,los diálogos sin sentido o el porque yang no le cuestiona nada a blake, o lo poco natural de la relación digo se supone que las parejas se basan en la confianza conocer mas acerca del otro, pero en esta relacion no hay nada de eso porque en primer lugar blake se fugo si decirle nada a yang despues de la caida de beacon,ademas que puede saber una sobre la otra todo ese tiempo en cual desarollaron esa relación esta fuera de camara. Y ni siquiera cuando aparecen juntas saben algo sobre la otra no nada no hay nada de eso solo interacciones de como es feliz una pareja de lesbianas (yuppi). Canonizar esta pareja era mas una intención comercial que narativa (porque narativamente es una pesima idea al quedar concluido el arco de desarollo de dos protagonistas y que literalmente no van a hecer algo nuevo con el ship que no se haya visto en otras series del mismo estilo) lo digo porque no es coincidencia tanto bárbara con arryn sacaran provecho de la serie metiendo sus cosas de por medio.(Only fans) Ya para acabar (que realmente es largo el comentario) irónicamente lo que vemos la serie y criticamos de ella no somos haters o eso quiero pensar ya que la mayoria sabemos que la serie tiene un potencial enorme y si llegan a hacerlo bueno con ella la serie seria muy buena pero esta lejos de eso si siguien cargando a la misma gente que los llevo a ese punto de inflexión en el que estan ahora teniendo que depender de una compañia ajena a la original porque la principal fue muy incompetente en dar un producto que fuera disfutable. espero que no haya sido una gran molestia poner el comentario tan largo. Igualmente estan en su derecho de responderme si me equivoco en algun punto tener un debate con una comunidad que sepa algo del tema en cuestión siempre es agradable simepre y cuando se mantenga em respeto mutuo. Por cierto buen video bro 👍
There have honestly been a lot of straight pairings I have disliked over the years, and it doesn't help that we all have seen and/or experienced accusations similar to Xiao-Long's (*cough* CrimsonXE *cough*). In fact, I've seen the whole "you don't like something because of X (whether it'd be a character's gender or supposed "conflict" or a story/character being "different")" from fans of SW (both pre-Disney and Disney SW alike), Marvel, Snyder's DCEU, Legend of Korra, etc. Not to mention, those same fans claim something to be deep without any real proof and then criticize something else of the very issues they are defending. It is all a double-standard. Speaking of straight pairings I dislike, here's a list of some off the top of my head: Anakin/Padme from the SW prequels (dude tries to creep on her and kills women and children for a mom he did nothing about yet SOMEHOW she falls in love with no proper hints or anything to show her being attracted to him in the first place) Rey/Kylo Ren from the SW sequels (similar to the first, only the dude creeps on the girl via Force-skype and the girl kicks his butt for some reason) The Doctor/ANYONE from DW (seriously, the writers are having every female character try to kiss the Doctor in every season of Nu Who, even if said female character is a typical human in her teens/20s and the Doctor is centuries--if not millennia-old) Batman/Batgirl from Batman: The Killing Joke adaptation (same as the last one, only it makes me throw up) Ren/Nora from RWBY (you already went into that) Jaune/Pyrrha from RWBY (girl crushes on dude who barely notices her AT BEST, and then dude cries about girl after girl is long dead... and nothing is done with it) Korra/Mako from TLOK (girl tries to push for a relationship with dude even though dude is taken--which includes girl kissing dude--yet girl gets dude... and then girl dunks of dude for dude doing his job in the next season, which ends up with dude breaking up with girl) Sasuka/Sakura from Naruto (the dude has literally tried killing her DOZENS of times and yet the girl not only still simps but has a child with him?) Leonardo/Karai from TMNT 2k12 (they turn out to be step-siblings... and yet the show still tries to push for hints of romance that doesn't go any of that)
Don't forget about the rare but still sometimes used defense of "it's intended for children"/"it's a cartoon" defense. A defense that not only undermines, and can be turned back onto, the individual trying to defend the media they are countering criticism of, not only does it devalue the works of media that is animated which devalues an entire medium of artistic expression because it exists as it does, but it also insinuates that children don't think about the media that they are watching, when they absolutely are thinking about it because that is what children typically do. They listen, think, and learn from the media they watch or listen to.
@@Number1Rival I wouldn't say it's rare, especially when it comes from the people making those very stories (*cough* George Lucas *cough* Barbara Dunkelman *cough*). But yeah, what you said. I got memories of Static Shock's gun episode, PBS Arthur's 9/11 episode, the end of Redwall season 3, the end of Digimon Tamers, etc. All of which are decently told and, while can be for kids, doesn't dumb it down for kids and can be watched by adults.
Oh damn, the Sakura, Sasuke comparison is very spot on in terms of the faults they share. The main point being made at 2:40 is very much a flat argument imo, you've already illustrated this via Caitlin and Vi but keeping it within RWBY itself, the show just isn't very good at romance or at the very least is very inconsistent with its execution. Like Nora and Ren, similar to Blake and Yang always came off as more platonic imo and I think it's just because the story executes that relationship better than romance. I feel the kinship for Bumblebee when it isn't beating me over the head with romantic obsession but instead relies on gestures that show both characters have great trust in each other, such as them holding hands fighting Adam in V6. Ultimately I think the problem is the ship goes from 0 to 100 as soon as possible and we get this weird thing that starts in V7 where all Yang can talk or think about seems to be Blake to a frankly frustrating degree whilst Blake doesn't get an opportunity to express her feelings at any point before the confession. That 'Yeah, Ruby' line still rubs me the wrong way, that's what the problem is the romance ends up dampening the characters and reducing them to a ship. It's not written to be two characters with chemistry who learn to build a relationship but as Bumblebee the fandom ship built of flirtation and ship-bait, regardless of how it affects the characters and their other relations. Also the existence of Ruby and Jaune basically being the same in that they have more interactions together than with other characters, kind of invalidates the entire argument given they've ultimately been just really good friends. I defo rambled incoherently but TLDR: this argument doesn't make sense given other relations in the show and how romantic writing in RWBY is generally pretty meh, I think Bumblebee works better as a close platonic pairing because it's executed better and Bumblebee defo only exists because it was a popular ship not because the story intended to execute it properly.
@@Whitestone2785 Sorry. I was trying to make a point. Hell, I wouldn't have minded if they did it at the midway point. Renora on the other hand is what it could've been. Why do side characters get better writing than the main characters? It's like Team RWBY are the guest stars of their own show.
@greeneagle4220 Wouldn't be an issue if it wasn't one of the talking points used by the blind fanatics to defend the show as a whole. I'm convinced RWBY was written so that the only thing canon to an episode is the current frame on screen at a given moment.
Siempre fue una posibilidad al igual que muchos parejas en la serie. Ya que rwby a ese punto de la historia no le importaba si lo que le entregaba a los fans estaba bien hecho o tenía sentido lo que importaba era contentar al fandom y ya.
I actually remember how much I resented SakuSasu when I began to notice how heavy the show was leaning into the ship. I stopped watching Naruto after a few years, but when I was told that Sakura and Sasuke got married, I actually asked (or half-screamed), "why!?" Because I never liked them together. Just like BMBLB, it's just toxic and the narrative feels as though it needs to break itself down and clunkily rebuild itself back up to make a certain ship work. Truthfully I was hoping Sasuke would turn up dead by the end of the show because I don't really hate Sakura as much as others do. I was more hyped for Gaara and Lee to start dating.
My biggest thing about Bumblebee and with Korrasami as well, is that they both go criticized for sucking first before people who hated it because they hated gay people, and the creators both immediately went to saying it was because all the criticism was anti LGBT.
I will admit that i ship straight when i can due to personal reasons. I am a blacksun, dragonslayer, and rosegarden shipper to the core. However, i understand that gay and lesbian ships will always exist in media, and shippers will ship anything, so i'm not against them on principle. When I have a problem, is when any ship straight or otherwise is set up poorly and comes out of nowhere. I actually ship freezerburn and checkmate to varying degrees. I don't ship ladybug, whiteknight, or lancaster, i don't think there is a lot of evidence for them, but i see more evidence for those and am more likely to ship them than whiterose or bumblebee. There is zero build up to two of the biggest ships in the show and fandom.
Sadly, ive only had negative intersctions with BB fans. Of whom ive given the nickname of "wasps". Ive been called homophonic for pointing out faults in the ship, while also giving good examples of same sex ships like Tohru and Miss Kobayashi from Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid. Im sure there are decent level headed non egregious people who like the ship. But from my experience, they're toxic af.
Honestly? Bumblebee is probably a good example of diversity shielding "done right". When bad writing is covered up by the minority/diversity within the subject. But I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't even intentional on writers behalf, afterall, it is cRWBY were talking about
Im gonna give my 2 cents on this since my view is mixed. And its a long ass comment, and im not on a computer so its not gonna turn out proper, just me relaying my throught process. Now first things first i wanna comment briefly regarding the homophobia thing, i talked to alot of people in the community for the past year or 2 and I've gotten many different perspectives and i ce to this general conclusion, there is a group of people that are against the idea of 2 girls being together but that is a very small number of people, but the mass majority of people arent homophobic at all, the main problem they had with the relationship between yang and blake varies on 3 things which typically boils down to this: 1) there was already a build up with sun and blake and they just threw it all away just to pander to the audience who wanted yang and blake. 2) there was no build up between these 2 at all and they are suddenly into eachother out of nowhere in v6. 3) their dynamic was suppose to be a sisterhood. Im not even going to bring up the whole montys vision thing, thats just asking for me to lose braincells over this claim. But overall, the general consensus of this faction of the community is mainly the lack of context behind the relationship between yang and blake while there is context of a relationship build up between sun and blake. Nothing in their criticisms had ever been really homophobic in nature, BUT, i am putting it nicely because while they are not homophobic themselves, they dont really do themselves any favors when they say something that can easily be perceived as homophobic. Now to this long ass comment. Im gonna be fair cause i personally have to reflect on those ive been around and myself when it came to watching shows that contained same sex relationships, while i am no stranger to real life same sex relationships since ive been friends with alot of lesbians back in school, the mass majority of my young life experiencing many series had always been the usual boy meets girl tradition. The very first time ive actually seen any animated show that ended up having same sex relationships was the legend of korra, and even that wasnt noticable but the reason for that one was explained by the creators, lgbt in the early 2010s were not widely accepted in a "kids show" by publishers and they couldnt outright write out a noticable relationship building up between korra and asami, so they had to approach it with subtle hints and clues, which is why it sparked alot of controversy among the community, because many didnt see anything going on with them and thought it was out of left field. However, there were others who were able to see the those hints and pointed them out. I personally didnt see anything about their relationship because i was so use to shows sticking with the boy girl trope that I expect them to do the same thing, but until i took the time to rewatch it with full context in mind, i was able to understand what i was overlooking about their interactions, and i made that same mistake with yang and blake cause i didnt pay attention much to their interactions since i already assumed they are just really close friends and seem to have a special bond. Not even considered their relationship maybe more than that because i expected RT to go along with the same ol trope by having blake with sun. But the end of v6 pretty much slapped me in the face for thinking that because when i went back over the series to pay attention to yang and blakes interactions, i came to realize the series of events with yang and blakes relationship is extremely similar to korra and asamis. And given the timeframe of rwbys development, i was personally wondering if miles and kerry took the relationship formula from the korra and asami relationship. While i want to say im not validating her point, i will say I understand it mainly because of my own experience in viewing these characters. The mindset i had with yang and blake since v2 was that they seem to be pretty good friends, and as time went by till v6-v8, i still held that same view but stating they are very close friends, not taking a step back to think if RT is actually going to make them a thing instead of them being more as platonic soulmates. And i will admit i am ashame that i didnt take a moment to realize that sooner, the main reason i feel ashamed of that was because the way the relationship was structured, if it were a boy and girl situation, i would've thought it was a really complex yet interesting relationship, but i viewed them as really close friends, i did think back to what i thought the first time about their relationship, not because their both girls but because of how their relationship was built up, ive seen slow burn relationships built in a similar fashion through books ive read not revolving around relationship, but does have some elements of it, and ive always appreciated how they developed the girls relationship and thought these girls wouldve turned out as an interesting couple given what theyve been through, but i was passively ignoring the possibility of that actually happening because i was under the impression RT was going to do the same ol trope. I was wrong and it was the second time i overlooked and ignored other considerations, rwby surprisingly became the first series for me to take a moment to re-evaluate how i should move forward when seeing relationships, meaning that i should not presume what kind of relationship is being built based on their sex. I know i said the first time ive seen this happen was legend of korra, but the reason this series isnt the first to make me re-evaluate how i should look at relationships is because korra and asami was never made official in the show, even by the end of the show the only thing the creators could do is show them hand holding, again, they werent allowed to show lgbt representation in an obvious manner given how times were back then towards same sex relationships. But in the comics, turf wars, the creators did not waste any time to actually make them official. RWBY on the other hand actually did make yang and blake official, but more importantly, i shouldve connected the dots when it came to illia, and when it came to jaunes older sister and her wife that RT is actually open to approaching relationships of the same sex without having the same pressure on them in the same manner as legend of korra, and i know those are 2 different matters since legend of korra was broadcasted on tv ( so there was more risk of scrutiny ):while rwby wasnt, but because the subtlety of yang and blakes relationship is very similar to korra and asamis, i still wonder whether they either A. Werent sure how the community would take it and decided to take steps, or B. They actually studied the formula of legend of korra, monty back then did told miles and kerry to study ATLA, but it wouldn't be abit of a stretch for them to do the same thing with LOK. So yeah, in a sense I understand her view, not saying whether shes right or wrong, but i do get it.
RWBY the fandom i used to like and now seeing the fandom is still the same as always. I'm someone who likes ships and many more cause it's fun for my imagination and i keep it to myself and not argue other people's ships cause in the end it's all fun and games and people can ship whoever they want since it's fun for them. I think Bumblebee is a cute ship but what i think is it's not right to send death threats to other fans in the fandom or the staff like seriously what's the point it makes you look like a jerk. Ships is supposed to be fun and it's all headcanons. I'm okay if many people doesn't like the ships or shipping in fandom general then i understand it's their choice not mine. [sorry for about my grammar and sorry for the rant i just need get stuff out of my chest and maybe this wasn't the right video to have my rant about ships being taken seriously if this wasn't the right video i'm sorry]
I agree with this video and that Bumblebee is poorly developed, but I do have one thing to say. I don’t think the discussion of bias is something that automatically subtracts from an argument being made. Pointing out the existence of a bias does not mean it's a detriment to the conversation by default, it depends on the way the bias is acknowledged. The point is that the existence of a bias should never subtract from the OBJECTIVE point being made. Are they using the existence of a bias to attack the argument itself, or are they using it to make a point about someone's character? The objective point being made and the subjective reasoning behind it need to be separated in discussions like these. While someone may be objectively correct, there is still value in discussing biases that a person may hold and how that can reflect a larger cultural attitude towards a topic of discussion. For example, Leon Critiques made a point in his comment about how this mentality plagues the Avatar fandom. There isn’t anything wrong with the discussion of whether or not Korra would be liked/disliked more if she was a man. Acknowledging how men and women are treated differently, even in fictional scenarios is always a prevalent point of discourse because it can influence and reflect how men and women are treated IRL. The issue would stem from when this discourse is not separated from just analyzing Korra’s character as objectively well written. That's when the conversation about Korra’s character halts, because there is now a lack of distinction between both arguments (Ex. If you like Korra’s character, that means you believe people who dislike her are sexist against women; If you dislike Korra’s character, that means you believe people who like her are sexist against men). Neither are arguments invalid for discussion until it's used in the WRONG discussion. (It's basically like whataboutism; If I say I view Roosterteeth as a bad company because they have bad practices, let's say someone responds to me saying how I don’t care that Disney is a bad company with bad practices too as a counterargument. Having a discussion about Disney being a bad company isn’t the problem, it's that these are entirely different points that don’t contradict each other by any means, and are only being used to deflect the original point being made by an accusation of bias.) There isn’t anything wrong with Xiao Long Media making the point that people would probably interpret Blake and Yang’s interactions in volumes 1-3 as more romantic in hindsight if they were a straight couple. She would have a valid reason to make that point if you analyze LGBTQ+ history on a broader scale, and there could easily be an interesting discussion to be made there (Same with your point about LGBTQ+ people being more likely to defend the ship). The problem is when that argument is framed as a way to invalidate all criticism against Bumblebee not being properly developed as just a Heteronormative bias. The discussion of whether or not Bumblebee is a good ship isn’t being separated from the discussion of whether or not people are more likely to view straight pairings as romantically coded than gay ones. It's not the discussion that there may be a bias that is inherently the problem, it's the way it's being utilized and muddled in this particular situation.
"The problem is when that argument is framed as a way to invalidate all criticism against Bumblebee not being properly developed as just a Heteronormative bias." Which is exactly what I stated in my video. Xiaolong media made this statement at the end of her V1-3 section after simply talking about the relationship between both characters not really mentioning the wider discussion or detractors of the ship prior. It comes nearly out of nowhere and without addressing the specific arguments people have made against the ship. So when XL makes this statement she relies on such huge assumptions. 1. People are less likely to recat this way with a straight pairing (which is wrong as I stated in my video. Not to say that some degree of bias doesn't exist but at this point, media has progressed to the point where it's practically negligible.) 2. that the evidence of Blake and Yangs potential relationship is so blatant you would have to be blinded by bia to not see it. 3. This is a significant level of bias that effects a majority of critics of the ship (not true btw) and 4. That this argument would not apply to her, who would have a vested interest in this ship being good for several reasons (including the fact that she herself is lesbian). Not to mention, the discussion itself in most cases is a bit of a trap in the context of RWBY, because you would have to ask this question "how much does that bias effect the judgements people are making?" And at that point, unless you are some kind of social scientist or familiar with the subject, it is very very very difficult to actually quantify that on a large scale among those who are critical of Bumblebee. It would be better to bring up the possibility of bias in the context of specific arguments individuals are making. This would be fine if XL made examples of the kinds of arguments that would indicate such bias significantly drives these arguments, but she didn't. So we're left in the dark trying to figure out what in the world she is talking about. And by that point, the already volatile members of the fanbase will take this argument the wrong way, the damage would already be done. Tl;dr not only was XL's statement inappropriate given the rest of the video, but even if it was she would have very little grounds for it, given how in the past 20+ gay ships and straight ships in media have been recently treated even at the time of her video. Not sure where the disagreement is here because I never said that you can't discuss bias at all.
@@KaiserShounen ‘Not sure where the disagreement is here because I never said that you can't discuss bias at all.’ This wasn’t meant to be a disagreement or criticism of your video actually, I was trying to add to the discussion. Your video (and reply) is primarily focused on how Xiao Long Media is wrong for assuming that the reason people criticize Bumblebee's development is because of a heteronormative bias. My point is that even if there was a bias against Bumblebee for not being a straight ship, the existence of said bias wouldn’t factor into the discussion of whether or not Bumblebee was well written or not and if criticisms were justified (Which is why it was inappropriate to bring up). I was trying to offer another reasoning as to why Xiao Long Media would’ve been wrong to imply her original statement due the context of what she was talking about (If anything, we just disagree on what the primary issue with her point was). Sorry if my OG comment came off as accusatory, I can understand how the way I worded it would’ve made it come off that way. ‘It would be better to bring up the possibility of bias in the context of specific arguments individuals are making. This would be fine if XL made examples of the kinds of arguments that would indicate such bias significantly drives these arguments, but she didn't.’ Yes, this was the kind of discussion I was talking about that would be fine to discuss with Bumblebee. Criticizing specific arguments that show bias for or against Bumblebee would be fine rather than attacking any individual for holding said opinion. That way it's easier to have a discussion about this because it's no longer an assumption about a person you don't know, but about the substance of what they're actually saying.
Can you tell us which anime/video game/cartoon couples do you enjoy? Here’s a list of mine. 1. Denji x Reze/Asa from Chainsaw Man 2. Gambit x Rogue from X-Men 3. Kaneki x Touka from Tokyo Ghoul 4. Trevor x Sypha from Castlevania 5. Loid x Yor from Spy x Family 6. Batman x Catwoman 7. Akira x Shizuka from Zom 100 8. Inuyasha x Kagome 9. Miroku x Sango from Inuyasha 10. Alphen x Shionne from Tales of Arise 11. Tidus x Yuna from Final Fantasy X 12. Clive x Jill from Final Fantasy 16 13. Sly x Carmelita from Sly Cooper 14. Joker x Makoto from Persona 5 15. All of the romances in the Dragon Age Series 16. All of the romances in Fire Emblem Awakening and Three Houses 17. All of the romances in Baldur’s Gate 3
The Renora ship wasn't perfect but at least they had some interaction and good chemistry. And they're technically secondary protagonists. And don't forget about Deku x Ochako from My Hero Academia.
@samflood5631 Understandable. I really hope she does confess and I wanna see how Deku responds. I hope they get together but if they don't, then it won't kill me
For all those crazy shipping people out there.That will literally call you a homophobe For not liking their ship. Here's some advice It's a little thing called fan fiction It's a way of writing your little fantasies out and have the story in the way you want it to without offending anybody except for the people who probably will criticize your grammar , In your little fan fiction story often you're a little imaginary land any character can be with any character as long as its age appropriate of course And doesn't involve weird stuff ( I'm looking at you weirdos who try to Ship ruby with yang , you weird weird freaks I could have gone my entire life without ever knowing that that was a Ship that actually existed)
My brother told in Christ what was the point of Son and his entire plot in volume 4 if not to establish a clear pairing that was even visible in RWBY Chibi
A little advice try to not include thumbnails that have a redline at the bottom. Most of the time it appears as if the video has already been watched so people might skip it on the cou t they think they've already watched it.
This reminds me of what I felt lately about FF7 Rebirth. A lot of people liked that game but at the same time, a vast majority hated the game, because of how it handled some of the key moments and changes. And your video actually reminded me, that I have to be respectful and collective, when it comes to criticising some of the game's points. Nice job on the video, Kaiser. 🙂
I've done that it's bad idea way beginning to keep up like that so it's like 1 shot 1 kill with franchise you don't have straight characters that just caught lot of problems
Kaiser....8.50-9.06....hopefully she's changed her mind based on other media watched and you add a image of Char....🤣 Are you trying to shoot yourself in the foot?
No. NaruSasu is a no. Doesn't make sense. They were never shown to be romantic for each other. They have a brother like relationship and those exist between men in real life with their closest friends. I have that kind of dynamic with a few of mine. Chillout on that take.
I never said that they did have romantic feelings for each other. All I said was was that I would rather they get together than them getting with Sakura and Hinata because those chicks are poorly/underwritten characters and their interactions with Naruto/Sasuke (while good sometimes) is overall half baked. In an ideal world the pairings we got would be well written. But my point of making this argument is that Xiaolong media's deal about unconscious bias against gay ships is barely even a factor because many would rather Naruto be gay than get with Hinata.
I honestly didn't care if it became canon or not, as long as it was endearing and sweet. But what did you expect from writers who care more about the show's plot than its characters?
THIS COMMENT IS A *HUGE* NITPICK AND DOESN’T REALLY PERTAIN TO THE VIDEO. 1:48 - 1:56 made me cringe a little. You aren’t wrong but… trying to intimidate people on the internet with reporting just feels a bit… weak. You aren’t wrong by any means, she definitely SHOULDN’T be harassed. But you did kinda lose aura when you said a naughty word to catch our attention and started acting all serious…
I have to ask, did you get permission to review her video at least? It seems kind of disrespectful to offer critique and your own personal opinions on it without asking the creator if they can at least review it and share your thoughts on it.
Not really. You don't need the original creators permission to respond or critique their content. XiaoLong Media's video is there for the public to respond to and I linked the video in the description. TH-camrs do this all the time. Plus, given how XiaoLong has been radio silent internet wise for a while, I doubt I could even contact her if I wanted to.
@@zeroconnect5910 Well, put it this way, you are partially using their content, which they took the time to make, to critique and create content and revenue for your own, all this without even asking them if that’s okay with them. That’s just my perspective.
@@davidkoudelka10 Dude, this is all fair use. Its not like I'm re-using their entire content. Just commenting on one specific section. People on youtube do this all the time and no one has a problem with it. Plus the video is FIVE YEARS OLD. I doubt I'm taking any revenue from a channel of their size. Did you think I asked Lily Orchard her permission to respond to her in my previous video?
Hey everyone! Thank you all for watching and enjoying the video. But I want to reiterate to please DO NOT HARASS XiaoLongMedia ABOUT THIS. Criticize her video, maybe even send this one to her if prompted, but don't bother her. The video is old and her opinions on the ship may have changed. And even if not, be civil. Agree to disagree. Thank you.
Yo kaiser, so I'm not gonna watch Xiao long production's whole video, but from the clip you showed of it, it just seems like you may have misunderstood something.
So your point is that she shouldn't be defending Bumblebee by saying that the reason people don't like it is because it's gay.
But she isn't saying that people dislike the ship because it's two women. IN FACT, she's not even talking about people disliking the ship at all in the provided clip!
What she IS talking about is people being less likely to interpret Blake and Yang's relationship as romantic one because they are both women.
Create a scene in which two female characters of the same age hug and hold each other's hands while solemnly gazing at each other when they finally meet after a long time or something for example.
Now change one of the characters' gender to male and the likelihood of their relationship being interpreted as a romantic one by the larger audience skyrockets.
Similar to how those classic "Galpal", "they were roommates" and "they were just really good friends'' jokes point out how straight relationships have a much higher chance of being interpreted as romantic ones in comparison to relationships between people of the same gender.
NEVER is homophobia or "disliking" a ship because it's gay at play as an argument, because there never WAS an argument for people disliking the ship in the first place in the clip.
"More people would *interpret* that Blake had feelings for Yang if Blake was a man." THAT is her point.
NOT:
"More people would *like/accept* that Blake had feelings for Yang if Blake was a man."
And unless you consider the former to be homophobia, (going by the clip you showed in the video) she was never calling anyone a bigot.
She was never talking about people's inability to accept a gay ship, she was talking about people's inability to realize the fact it was there in the first place.
@En_Jaay I think the assumption of homophobia or heteronormative bias is implied in her statements.
@@En_Jaay But either way, its a bad argument.
because she is presupposing that this bias is impeding peoples ability to realize that the ship was even happening in the first place. Everyone and their grandmother has already explained why the first 3 volumes did a poor job at establishing how close Yang and Blakes relationship was and said similar criticisms to other ships in other media. Maybe it would face less skepticism if it were a straight pairing, but its hard to quantify how significant that actually is.
It's a distinction without a difference and unless she could adequately prove why its obvious the ship was being set up in the first 3 volumes (spoilers: she didn't), this argument being applied to possibly a wide group of people just needlessly poisons the well.
If what you say is true and she's talking about the levels people could even PERCEIVE the ship even happening due to unconscious bias, that's arguably worse than saying that its bad due to unconscious bias. You are presupposing that people aren't paying attention.
Has this happened in the past? Yes. Does it still happen on some level? Maybe (I wouldn't doubt it, but I need some significant recent examples). But given how far we have progressed, peoples reactions to other ships (both straight AND gay), and how that applies to RWBY, I fail to see any reason to bring that up as an argument in favor of Bumblebee.
Not to mention it can be applies RIGHT BACK AT HER.
"You only perceive these scenes as intimate or potentially romantic or building towards a close relationship because of your unconscious bias in favor of LGBT+ content. You would be less likely to view these things as such, if you did not have this bias."
Its bad either way.
@@KaiserShounen Hmm... Agreed.
i think Weiss had more romanic potential with Yang. Weiss been on the motorcycle and met Yang's mother. Blake was 100% set up for Sun but than some writer said fuck that and wrote Sun out of the seres completely.
The "you just this ship because bigotry" is an argument that has thankfully become stale as time goes on. Though it still crocks up every now and then. But I would also say that the insistance on whether people like/hate Bumblebee, because of the sexuality, is such a dishonest way to shut down the arguments people have made. I've seen more people criticise Bumblebee for its bad pacing, suddenness and removal of Black Sun in order to prop up a ship that "fans" wanted, without going near the genders/sexualities of the parties involved. To me Bumblebee is just a prime example of when writers let their fans decide whats best for the plot and characters, rather than keep consistency
While I disagree with them jumping ship from Black Sun due to fan outrage, I fully agree with the rest of your point. Bringing up unconscious biases that are impossible to prove only hurts discussion
@@KaiserShounen I mean, you'd have to come up with a reason why they spent 5 volumes building up a ship, only to deconstruct it and build a completely different one in half a volume.
EDIT: Although personally I also think it was an attempt to distance themselves from The Allegations about Rooster Teeth, if indirectly.
@@murderalphabetinc.5162 even if it wasn't there to avoid outrage by Bumblebee stans. It does seem awfully convenient for Bumblebee specifically to be ship they go with and not Black Sun. Regardless I had completely forgot about the shady shit RT had been accused of/gotten involved in. In any case, the person I always feel sorry for is Monty
Well said.
You’re still wrong regardless but go off i guess
In short to make the video into a few seconds conclusion....
Bumblebee was never the intended ship nor does it have any foreshadow within Vol 1-3 as RWBY writing goes off the railing after Monty passing and RT made things became very blurry on what was their intention so the fans was left with only theories until the later volume's.
There you go, Enjoy.
I don't hate Bumblebee because of lesbians (as I am one). I hate Bumblebee because it's an extremely toxic and self-destructive relationship towards Yang, especially. You don't pair up someone with abandonment issues with someone with commitment issues. All Therapists worth their salt would say the same!
That's what I said.
They wouldn’t last a year.
tbh if the writers were good and realized Bumblebee was toxic they could have done something interesting with it. Have the girls eventually realize they aren't good for each other and break up. But said writers have negative self-awareness so obviously they just ignore all that.
@@Karxridathat would honestly be a really great way of doing it but sadly that would require a self awareness the characters - and the writers - don’t have.
Besides being bad faith, it's also really bad argumentation to just immediately assume your detractors are motivated by bigotry, without taking their arguments into account.
Cuz you're right, if it's possible to dislike a straight pairing, then the claim that "people would like Bumblebee if they were straight" only holds up if the pairing is still well written. So then you have to ask yourself: are the arguments against BB ones that would hold up regardless if it was straight or not? And I don't think that was taken into account.
These kinds of accusations never make the discussion more productive (at least not without SynthMan-levels of proof that point to bigoted motivation)
It's just much better for the discussion to assume the best of the people you're arguing against and focus on arguments until you can conclude anything otherwise.
The other problem with that argument is that there's an underlying ideological justification for it, which starts with the premise that our society is de facto ingrained with heteronormative biases that reinforce oppression of non-hetero people. If that bias is always there, then it means it will always be there, until it isn't. It's not a falsifiable position if you could "predict" heteronormative bias at any point in time because you've already supposed it's always there.
@@kmgyening And even THEN its hardly relevant in a discussion about the objective quality of Bumblebee. By that same token, we can argue that rabid fans of the ship have a normative bias for anything LGBT, presuposing that that bias will always be there and thus, any discussion to be had would be pointless.
Its a bad argument that only starts fighting. We need to do better.
@KaiserShounen I strongly agree with you. Not to harp on that stuff too much, but you just reminded me of a video I watched covering unconscious bias from white people against POC. The same counterargument could be applied to POC in that regard: do we just assume they never hold unconscious biases toward white people even if we believe they're oppressed by white-dominant society? Wouldn't they have just cultivated that bias from strong personal investment in some other values? Like you said though, it's not conducive to discussing the merits of how the actual ship is written and just derails into pointless fighting.
SynthMan?
@@kmgyening Well of course, the argument on their side would be that such unconscious biases aren't harmful BECAUSE they are oppressed.
Which, while can be true in some cases, I find to be quite toxic in others. Especially in the context of discussions.
Bumblebee isn't forced? Sure i can see it.
Bumblebee was planned from the start? Absolutely fucking not.
Bumblebee could've been better? Yes.
Should Yang and Blake have had more interaction for it work? Definitely.
Did the relationship need to happen? not really.
@@budgetbrick5124 i think no relationship needs to happen. they just do
@@Athorment this one specifically was one I think really shouldn't happen
@Athorment I mean...no, there are some romances that are the focus of the story or individual arcs. Like Tangled for example wouldn't work without the romance since the romance is the story.
As a Naruto fan myself, even someone who actually thinks Sakura's pretty okay (not great, but not *terrible*), I was absolutely blown away by the comparison of Bumblebee to SasuSaku.
Thank you Mr Media Analyst Mega Man X
I swear the amount of times I’ve been called a homophobe for saying bumblebee wasn’t planned from the beginning despite being a bi woman is crazy. Not only that, but bb fans will go apeshit if you ship Yang or Blake with anyone else. I’ve had bb fans tell me to kill my self just because l ship freezerburm 💀
Jokes on them. Weiss deserves better lol
But yeah that sucks. Sorry you had to deal with that.
I ship Blake with Weiss myself. I guess we both better off ourselves.
The only reason I'm not shipping Black Sun is that monkey boy deserves better than the cat.
Es curioso que sus fans son todo lo contrario a lo que predica su propio ship igual no les des importancia a eso y sigue con tu vida que es mejor, que preocuparse por una pareja que ni existe 👍
How dare you have an opinion slightly different then mainstream you bigot.
7:04 Except I don’t remember Yang ever trying to kill Blake after suffering a psychotic breakdown.
Although I’d have loved to see that.
It’s more like bad fan fiction kinds of writing.
Given the multiple betrayals of trust committed by Blake to Yang combined with Yang’s temper, that would have been a more realistic response. At least a few hits to get the message across that Yang hates what Blake did and any friendship they had is on the rocks.
I love how that Rwby panel that talked about toxicity are also toxic as af and condescends to the people who disagree
Much like RT (specifically the people in charge, not the employees who had to deal with their BS).
13:01 Kaiser you need to stop betting your house dude, your going to end up homeless if you don't mate.
Hey its a safe bet no one is ever going to call Vi x Caitlyn bad unless something messed up happens in Season 2 lol
@@KaiserShounen Let's hope that doesn't happen, wouldn't want you to lose your house like that lol
The craziest part about the argument of “You primarily dislike this because of a subconscious bias” is that the Avatar fandom is starting to use this foul argument.
About a month or two ago, I saw a Twitter post arguing that if Korra were a dude, 80% of people wouldn’t hate her character, the implication being that we hate Korra for being a girl. And yeah, it’s insulting to be told that you only dislike a character because of their identity, rather than the fact that they’re poorly written and that the minority population they represent deserve better media representation.
And there were a good number of replies and quote tweets to that Korra post that just reflected the bias right back, saying that 80% of Korra defenders would stop defending her if she was a dude. It didn’t actually push the conversation, it just halted the conversation because it’s a bad argument.
That argument regarding Korra has been around for years. It's pretty boring
Right on the money, man.
Our community needs to be better. We need to be better. Thats all we can do.
Sadly, it's not just RWBY and Avatar, and this goes FAR beyond just shipping or a character's gender. To summarize my own comment, "you don't like something because they're different" is a common double-standard among these types of fans. Not helped that some of those fans may criticize other characters who share similar core writing issues with the very characters those same fans defend.
And it's not specific to one particular side of a fandom, since you can see this anywhere (prequels vs sequels fans, DCEU vs MCU fans, etc.). It's like the horseshoe theory. Except with fandoms instead of political parties.
Well in Korras case that was actually a problem the "fanbase" had, that Korra is a girl that was a legit negative for ALOT of people so although It's not relevant now It was a absolutely relevant arguement just few years back before Avatar and LoK blew up again
@@KaiserShounen I imagine with the shuttering of RTs doors and the fact the RWBY IP will be on the back burner of wiz media from a while will allow the toxic members of the fandom to slowly trickle out via losing interest over time. Maybe the series might get a reboot in the future that will fix a lot of the issues of the original series.
Only thing i should know bumblebee for is being a goat transformer
2:22-2:41 “Maybe YOU can still frame this as platonic…but if WE stripped all this back…would WE dismiss the romantic connotation of these scenes so easily? I doubt it.”
Xiao doesn’t make an argument here only constructing a RWBY fan that she thinks would crumble at her hypothetical question.
7:59-8:04 I’ve seen a BMLB shipper that wanted that for purely superficial reasons.
8:10-8:11 B̶u̶t̶ ̶w̶e̶ ̶w̶o̶u̶l̶d̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶B̶o̶r̶u̶t̶o̶
11:01-11:28 Because people won’t presuppose that Sarcastic Chorus has an “implicit bias” against straight people.
11:43-11:47 It’s probably due to other shippers
PS: The first nineteen minutes of Xiao's video being solely conjecture felt like a waste of time to anyone wanting to be convinced about BMLB.
😊😊😊😊😅😮😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😮😅😮😊
11:33 😮😅😅😮😊😅😅😊😮😊😊😅
You see this is just ridiculous. They're basically trying to play a victim card in order to silence detractors. Like gender is supposed to be a shield for being a bad person or being a bad relationship in this case.
Personally my opinion on the ship will remain the same regardless if it were hetero or lesbian. The ship itself was created by destroying one character, erasing another character, and basically taking two of your main characters and devolving them into one poorly written character. I mean seriously Blake and yang have no story after volume 6.
Oh yeah, that's especially prominent in Volumes 7 and 8, when Blake and Yang apparently had nothing much to do themselves, now that neither of them had any personal antagonists left (those being the White Fang, Raven, and Adam).
I mean...there were things they could have done during their in Solitas. Blake could have been shown helping mend the human/Faunus relations, at least down in Mantle; or even helping Weiss in uncovering Jacques's underhanded secrets. And Yang? Well, when Ironwood relapsed from Cinder's bluff and asserted absolute command...his plan might seem to her like a bigger version of Raven's game plan (prioritizing one relatively small group's survival, while condemning the rest of the world), and she could have called that out.
Finally someone calls her video out. When I first saw it, I was so confused at all her……… points? It was pretty obvious RT made it canon because it was such a popular ship and needed it for the ratings 😒
Lol, that worked well.
Instead of ratings, they got a fractured fandom.
Which played significant role in the decline of the show, and the eventual end of RT.
@@DocMicrowaveironic....
@@maxximusprime2970 Indeed...
Lot of good that did them in the end. . . . *sigh* . . . : (
It seems the fail of the show continues. Crunchyroll just removed all volumes of RWBY from it's platform. Only Ice Queendom is left.
BumbleBee suffers the same problems that a lot of ships suffer. The ship strips on them of previous goals and personality so that the two can fawn over each other. This can sometimes happen in otherwise good ships, but Bumblebee's probably the worst example of this.
Is it any wonder that a lot of popular Yaoi ships from shows like Voltron, Naruto, Durarara, Tokyo Ghoul, Young Justice and Attack on Titan never became canon to begin with?
@@samflood5631
Heiwajima/Izaya shippers make my blood boil
@@HamazuraGOD Agreed. I'm more of a Shizou x Varona shipper myself.
@@samflood5631
Vorona is awesome. I haven't seen the anime yet nor interacted with the community, but I've heard tales of how much the ShiZaya shippers wish for Vorona's death. It's a bit embarrassing
@@HamazuraGOD Yeah and one of the Shizaya shippers said that Varona is mentally 10 years old. Since when?
Ten years ago, I remember someone responding to me with an accusation of homophobia because I argued that Korrasami was poorly developed. My position hasn't changed on that since, but when I watched "Hibike! Euphonium" a few months ago and saw what looked like a romantic connection between two female characters, I liked it, thought it was cute, and was interested to see where it would go in the anime's two seasons. Turns out they didn't end up together and may not have even been LGBT in the first place, but I saw what looked like a bunch of romantic implications from the way they interacted with each other and STILL ended up thinking, "this is better than Korrasami."
And you know what? Thats fine (presumably cause I never watched Hibike)
Point is, you can like and dislike what you want, and everyone's bias is different.
@@KaiserShounen If you ever decide to watch it and you remember my comment, maybe you can let me know what you think of their relationship.
@@kmgyening Or if decide to make a video lol
I like Korrasami, but I’m not out telling people off for thinking it wasn’t well-developed… Really, I just liked the atmosphere of those characters and so I filled in the blanks.
I also got out of RWBY Volume 1 (years later) thinking Weiss/Blake was the direction… and liking it.
@borjankosarac3645 Yea like, I wouldn't have had a problem with Korrasami if I saw more development from them in the show. Also, I LIKE the idea of White Rose, even though it's not in the show.
Bumblebee just won't die, what do we need to kill it?
I don’t know, but I do have other anime/video game/cartoon couples that are better than Bumblebee for fans to fall back to.
Example
1. Denji x Reze/Asa from Chainsaw Man
2. Gambit x Rogue from X-Men
3. Kaneki x Touka from Tokyo Ghoul
4. Trevor x Sypha from Castlevania
5. Loid x Yor from Spy x Family
6. Akira x Shizuka from Zom 100
7. Alphen x Shionne from Tales of Arise
8. Tidus x Yuna from Final Fantasy X
9. Clive x Jill from Final Fantasy 16
10. All of the romances in the Dragon Age Series
11. All of the romances in Fire Emblem Awakening and Three Houses
12. All of the romances in Baldur’s Gate 3
Bumbleby had potential and could've been great if the writers weren't so focused solely on the plot.
You can’t it’s canon now
@@kidprime6863 True and True. However much like the chimera in FMA it needs to be laid to rest.
@@skyslasher2297 No, volume 9 is not canon to me, it isn't real.
As I mentioned in a similar video to this, Bumblebee is obviously not planned and done purely for brownie points because they paired Yang (A person with known Abandonment issues stemming her biological mother running away and her adopted mother Summer dying) with Blake (A person whose go to response when it comes to problems in her life, her parents, the White Fang, Adam, RWBY, Sun, etc, is to run away from them)
And the show NEVER Addresses this obvious issue. Any relationship between these two is basically the definition of unhealthy.
I applaud you for being the bigger man.
I am not someone who can forgive or forget.
My argument against the ship has always been the bad writing surrounding it and not supporting the pairing properly. Something that gets regularly dismissed by people who argue against me using such poor arguments in bad faith and excusing the poor writing that didn't just cause the support in RWBY to drop, but ended the studio.
Rooster Teeth is done and dusted. The studio was officially closed by WBDiscovery a week or two ago.
There are still people out there who are holding out hope that the core writing team are shopping around in hopes of getting a volume 10 of their garbage.
I am one of those who clapped back at the collaboration of 'calm your tits' specifically because I CANNOT excuse the bad writing and refuse to compromise in an age where bad quality writing in favor of virtue signaling is the order of the day. In the years since that collab, so many promising projects or existing one have tanked EXACTLY because they were trying to compromise or just exist on bad quality writing.
I cannot forgive. I cannot forget. And that is why.
I can appreciate the sentiment. Unity does bring people together and make them stronger. But there is something to be said in regard to how this zealous obsession you hoped most BMBY supporters didn't have (I'm sorry to say is true) contributed to the downfall of a promising IP.
I too believe bumbleby was a contributing factor to the downfall of not only rwby itself but also roosterteeth. They kept putting a bunch of their eggs in that basket, due to tumblrinas that migrated to twitter/X who were never truly fans of rwby to begin with that only demanded bumbleby just cause, and look where it got them, shut down. If they had just let blacksun be a thing and not tamper with team rwby's sisterhood dynamic, keeping it as a group of bestfriends with a sisterly bond, maybe we wouldn't need to say a ship killed the show.
I can definitely understand where you're coming from. I've had similar experiences with fans of SW when discussing the quality of the stories they like, stories which I have brought up typical inconsistencies and other criticisms. And each time (whether it'd be the 2008 Clone Wars cartoon, or the sequels, or the EU, or ESPECIALLY the prequels), my arguments were usually about how bad the writing was, and I've been gaslit in the past because of it. Others recently have suggested for me to take a break, but even then, the circumstances surrounding that were not pleasing, i.e. dealing with another prequel fanatic saying I only "bitch and moan" about everything, I have "unconscious sinister intentions" when I gave actual proof to show I treated others with respect, etc.
As such, I have no hopes for dealing with SW. Most of it a piece of shit before AND after Disney bought the franchise, because of its poor characterization/worldbuilding/storytelling, not adhering to established continuity or even the spirit of previous works, etc. Their simps who defend this nonsense, especially to the point of harassing and insulting other people to not make themselves feel so insecure, are just as bad. There is a reason why the SW fandom is seen as so toxic (but not for the reasons the media make it out to be).
As for RT, I'm glad it has gone downhill to show the fruits of its hubris.
La pareja no causo el quiebre de la compañía, eso se venía adviertiendo desde hace tiempo está pareja solo hizo que se clavara más clavos al ataúd. Principalmente porque le pusieron empeño a personas que no consumían su contenido dejando relegado a gente que estuvo con ellos desde sus inicios gente que dejó de consumir contenido cuando se volvieron aún más empresariales de manera mala. Intentando ser exclusivos pero con contenido que ni ellos veían.
Rwby de hecho fue unas de las pocas franquicias que al menos los mantenía relevantes, pero era la misma franquicia se iba a lo seguro y nunca tomaban algún riesgo respecto a su estatus
@@yoeldaldovo5743 See this is the kind of bad faith argument I'm talking about.
I get your point that there was bad financial management of the series. That's true.
But let me ask you "how did things get bad enough that they had to resort to the poor management they did?"
Again your point about their pursuit of the mythical 'wider audiance' holds up but the ACTUAL CAUSE of why they felt they had to pursue this nonexistant audience driving away the one they had was due to the pandering.
The very pandering in which they were pushing BMBY to begin with.
Look at Vol 9. Not only were they expecting the Crunchyroll subscriptions to bankroll them through Vol 9 but also Vol 10. In addition they had a whole BMBY merch line ready to go the second they got 'The Kiss' or 'The Big Payoff' for that ship.
They were expecting the money printer and viewcount to skyrocket with this ship to leverage their axing with a high risk that WBD wasn't going to take.
But the pandering didn't work because the ship and the writing around it was trash. End result? No Vol 10 and ironically the series ended with the Ship that sank it.
You're not entirely wrong but your line of thinking didn't go back far enough.
@@graveyardshift6691soy consciente de la mala escritura que manejaban y si bien es un bueno punto en cual concordamos la pareja no era rentable a largo plazo principalmente por la falta de contenido que tiene rwby.ademas no solo fueron RT lo que influyeron en su quiebre y no se si lo mencionan esto. O mí información sea equivocada. Pero al a mayoría de la responsabilidad o un poco de esa culpa en ese mal movimiento la tienen sus actrices de voces. Tanto arryn como bárbara tuvieron algo de crédito en si también puede que ayan presionado al equipo siendo barba ceo de la compañía no se me hace raro que ambas propusieran la idea con el objetivo de sacar rédito económico del mismo vamos ahí están las pruebas.
El podcast,el only fans,la mercancía que se promocionaba desde hace tanto tiempo, o el hecho de que las pocas veces en donde bárbara habla sobre la situación del la empresa sea más que nada en sentido en donde parece que ella también se le será afectada su bolsillo. y si bien quizás juzgó mal a las actrices son cosas que no puede dejar pasar
Tu comentario está bastante acertado no fui muy específico acerca de su situación económica o financiera para que te des una idea a qué me refiero.
Here is my problem with this argument at 2:40:
1. What unconscious bias leads to people overlooking homosexual romances rather than hetereosexual romances?
2. This sounds like a bad faith argument that generalizes people as subconciously homophobic. This is a very difficult argument for her to make as a Film and Television graduate from university. While it is true that media consumption and criticism and someone's personal biases can play a role (see also: Media Encoding theory and Wants and Gratifications theory), I am very skeptical of those without a degree in psychology who make this argument.
3. This fails to address actual problems in the Bumblebee ship as Kaiser has argued in Bumblebee: Too Little Too Late and in several Team JYCT streams.
4. What about the fact that several lesbian romantic pairings have recieved critical acclaim over the years for being well written? Mage and Demon Queen, anyone?
5. The notion that people are unconciously homophobic is questionable considering the amount of polling over the years (in Western countries, mind you) that has consistently shown a high degree of support for homosexuality and gay marraige. Personal story, I live in a rural area of British Columbia that consistently has voted for right-wing parties, and yet I have seen no opposition to a gay pride parade.
Lo más irónico es no importa el género si no como este está construido o argumentado. Siempre va a ser la diferencia sobre encima del género en cuestión. Lo que mucha gente al parecer no entiende como alguien que está en el mundo de la escritura y quiere escribir historias. La razón de porque una pareja resulta ser mejor que otra será porque nos creemos de lleno que de verdad están enamorados porque la obra lo trata así quiere que te creas de verdad eso. Y para eso siempre hay un proceso de causa y efecto el porque están enamorados y eso se plantea desde un inicio porque el suponer haría eso.rwby no es una obra tan compleja y no pone siempre los elementos necesarios para que se suponga que tal cosa paso por eso es que aveces sentimos que tal obra es carente de sentido. Porque nunca hubo planteamiento al respecto y jamás se deja en claro esa intención
the Xiaolong video was really bad it suffers from a lot of the same or similar issues that Xel writers video on bumble bee has just a lot of poor arguments, lack of evidence and 90% of it just devolving into headcanon desperately convincing themselves that the ship was some planned out thing to make it look as good as possible in there mind also her demeanor comes off very poor in alot of the video.
A RWBY content creator who doesn’t fall into the norm and public opinion? Sub activated
And this is why ruby snaps is such a good joke
I say it right now. Burito is NOT equal to Naruto. Its 2 different worlds.
The dinosaurs agree and they are on their way to kick Sasuke's ass again.
Damn I didn't found her video back. I commented long ago that the platonic pairing is real and was really cool. Shipping didn't have to come in the show and I tried to respectfully said it.
I probably didn't word it well back then but I think my point still stand today : Bumblebee was bad and even if one of them was a male character it doesn't matter. The relationship is bad plain and simple
Hostility is rampant when this topic is addressed honestly because they wanted to shield everything with homophobia. Be it hate or criticism.
Vi and Caitlin was done right imo. That's the difference
Sup Kaiser. Great video man just came to support 🙏🏽
Hola soy del fandom latino y Me sorprende que la mitad del publico que vio la serie coincide en que la pareja se siente forzada y presentada en el momento menos indicado. No solo esta parte del globo tienen esta opinion si no también mayoria de la gente que habla español incluyéndome si bien hay excepciones son de hecho pocas de las personas que vi a las cuales me dieron algun argumento de porque no esta forzada o mal escrita. Porque de verdad si esta pareja hubiera sido planeada su ejecución hubiera sido mejor y ciertos baches no hubieran estado.
Como las casi pocas interacciones de yang y blake que dan a entender solo una amistad y no algo mas,los diálogos sin sentido o el porque yang no le cuestiona nada a blake, o lo poco natural de la relación digo se supone que las parejas se basan en la confianza conocer mas acerca del otro, pero en esta relacion no hay nada de eso porque en primer lugar blake se fugo si decirle nada a yang despues de la caida de beacon,ademas que puede saber una sobre la otra todo ese tiempo en cual desarollaron esa relación esta fuera de camara. Y ni siquiera cuando aparecen juntas saben algo sobre la otra no nada no hay nada de eso solo interacciones de como es feliz una pareja de lesbianas (yuppi).
Canonizar esta pareja era mas una intención comercial que narativa (porque narativamente es una pesima idea al quedar concluido el arco de desarollo de dos protagonistas y que literalmente no van a hecer algo nuevo con el ship que no se haya visto en otras series del mismo estilo) lo digo porque no es coincidencia tanto bárbara con arryn sacaran provecho de la serie metiendo sus cosas de por medio.(Only fans)
Ya para acabar (que realmente es largo el comentario) irónicamente lo que vemos la serie y criticamos de ella no somos haters o eso quiero pensar ya que la mayoria sabemos que la serie tiene un potencial enorme y si llegan a hacerlo bueno con ella la serie seria muy buena pero esta lejos de eso si siguien cargando a la misma gente que los llevo a ese punto de inflexión en el que estan ahora teniendo que depender de una compañia ajena a la original porque la principal fue muy incompetente en dar un producto que fuera disfutable.
espero que no haya sido una gran molestia poner el comentario tan largo. Igualmente estan en su derecho de responderme si me equivoco en algun punto tener un debate con una comunidad que sepa algo del tema en cuestión siempre es agradable simepre y cuando se mantenga em respeto mutuo. Por cierto buen video bro 👍
There have honestly been a lot of straight pairings I have disliked over the years, and it doesn't help that we all have seen and/or experienced accusations similar to Xiao-Long's (*cough* CrimsonXE *cough*). In fact, I've seen the whole "you don't like something because of X (whether it'd be a character's gender or supposed "conflict" or a story/character being "different")" from fans of SW (both pre-Disney and Disney SW alike), Marvel, Snyder's DCEU, Legend of Korra, etc. Not to mention, those same fans claim something to be deep without any real proof and then criticize something else of the very issues they are defending. It is all a double-standard.
Speaking of straight pairings I dislike, here's a list of some off the top of my head:
Anakin/Padme from the SW prequels (dude tries to creep on her and kills women and children for a mom he did nothing about yet SOMEHOW she falls in love with no proper hints or anything to show her being attracted to him in the first place)
Rey/Kylo Ren from the SW sequels (similar to the first, only the dude creeps on the girl via Force-skype and the girl kicks his butt for some reason)
The Doctor/ANYONE from DW (seriously, the writers are having every female character try to kiss the Doctor in every season of Nu Who, even if said female character is a typical human in her teens/20s and the Doctor is centuries--if not millennia-old)
Batman/Batgirl from Batman: The Killing Joke adaptation (same as the last one, only it makes me throw up)
Ren/Nora from RWBY (you already went into that)
Jaune/Pyrrha from RWBY (girl crushes on dude who barely notices her AT BEST, and then dude cries about girl after girl is long dead... and nothing is done with it)
Korra/Mako from TLOK (girl tries to push for a relationship with dude even though dude is taken--which includes girl kissing dude--yet girl gets dude... and then girl dunks of dude for dude doing his job in the next season, which ends up with dude breaking up with girl)
Sasuka/Sakura from Naruto (the dude has literally tried killing her DOZENS of times and yet the girl not only still simps but has a child with him?)
Leonardo/Karai from TMNT 2k12 (they turn out to be step-siblings... and yet the show still tries to push for hints of romance that doesn't go any of that)
Don't forget about the rare but still sometimes used defense of "it's intended for children"/"it's a cartoon" defense. A defense that not only undermines, and can be turned back onto, the individual trying to defend the media they are countering criticism of, not only does it devalue the works of media that is animated which devalues an entire medium of artistic expression because it exists as it does, but it also insinuates that children don't think about the media that they are watching, when they absolutely are thinking about it because that is what children typically do. They listen, think, and learn from the media they watch or listen to.
@@Number1Rival I wouldn't say it's rare, especially when it comes from the people making those very stories (*cough* George Lucas *cough* Barbara Dunkelman *cough*). But yeah, what you said. I got memories of Static Shock's gun episode, PBS Arthur's 9/11 episode, the end of Redwall season 3, the end of Digimon Tamers, etc. All of which are decently told and, while can be for kids, doesn't dumb it down for kids and can be watched by adults.
The feel good inc. playing at the beginning of the video
This was an amazing analysis
Oh damn, the Sakura, Sasuke comparison is very spot on in terms of the faults they share. The main point being made at 2:40 is very much a flat argument imo, you've already illustrated this via Caitlin and Vi but keeping it within RWBY itself, the show just isn't very good at romance or at the very least is very inconsistent with its execution. Like Nora and Ren, similar to Blake and Yang always came off as more platonic imo and I think it's just because the story executes that relationship better than romance. I feel the kinship for Bumblebee when it isn't beating me over the head with romantic obsession but instead relies on gestures that show both characters have great trust in each other, such as them holding hands fighting Adam in V6. Ultimately I think the problem is the ship goes from 0 to 100 as soon as possible and we get this weird thing that starts in V7 where all Yang can talk or think about seems to be Blake to a frankly frustrating degree whilst Blake doesn't get an opportunity to express her feelings at any point before the confession. That 'Yeah, Ruby' line still rubs me the wrong way, that's what the problem is the romance ends up dampening the characters and reducing them to a ship. It's not written to be two characters with chemistry who learn to build a relationship but as Bumblebee the fandom ship built of flirtation and ship-bait, regardless of how it affects the characters and their other relations. Also the existence of Ruby and Jaune basically being the same in that they have more interactions together than with other characters, kind of invalidates the entire argument given they've ultimately been just really good friends.
I defo rambled incoherently but TLDR: this argument doesn't make sense given other relations in the show and how romantic writing in RWBY is generally pretty meh, I think Bumblebee works better as a close platonic pairing because it's executed better and Bumblebee defo only exists because it was a popular ship not because the story intended to execute it properly.
I always appreciate my goats new rwby vids 💪
My humble opinion: Is Bumblebee forced, no. Is it the best option for either character, also no.
It could've worked if they did more with them and planned it from the start.
can you stop with the planned from the beginning it's really starting to annoy me now. @kidprime6863
@@Whitestone2785 Sorry. I was trying to make a point. Hell, I wouldn't have minded if they did it at the midway point. Renora on the other hand is what it could've been. Why do side characters get better writing than the main characters? It's like Team RWBY are the guest stars of their own show.
@greeneagle4220 Wouldn't be an issue if it wasn't one of the talking points used by the blind fanatics to defend the show as a whole.
I'm convinced RWBY was written so that the only thing canon to an episode is the current frame on screen at a given moment.
Siempre fue una posibilidad al igual que muchos parejas en la serie. Ya que rwby a ese punto de la historia no le importaba si lo que le entregaba a los fans estaba bien hecho o tenía sentido lo que importaba era contentar al fandom y ya.
I actually remember how much I resented SakuSasu when I began to notice how heavy the show was leaning into the ship. I stopped watching Naruto after a few years, but when I was told that Sakura and Sasuke got married, I actually asked (or half-screamed), "why!?" Because I never liked them together. Just like BMBLB, it's just toxic and the narrative feels as though it needs to break itself down and clunkily rebuild itself back up to make a certain ship work.
Truthfully I was hoping Sasuke would turn up dead by the end of the show because I don't really hate Sakura as much as others do. I was more hyped for Gaara and Lee to start dating.
My biggest thing about Bumblebee and with Korrasami as well, is that they both go criticized for sucking first before people who hated it because they hated gay people, and the creators both immediately went to saying it was because all the criticism was anti LGBT.
I will admit that i ship straight when i can due to personal reasons. I am a blacksun, dragonslayer, and rosegarden shipper to the core. However, i understand that gay and lesbian ships will always exist in media, and shippers will ship anything, so i'm not against them on principle. When I have a problem, is when any ship straight or otherwise is set up poorly and comes out of nowhere. I actually ship freezerburn and checkmate to varying degrees. I don't ship ladybug, whiteknight, or lancaster, i don't think there is a lot of evidence for them, but i see more evidence for those and am more likely to ship them than whiterose or bumblebee. There is zero build up to two of the biggest ships in the show and fandom.
Sadly, ive only had negative intersctions with BB fans. Of whom ive given the nickname of "wasps". Ive been called homophonic for pointing out faults in the ship, while also giving good examples of same sex ships like Tohru and Miss Kobayashi from Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid. Im sure there are decent level headed non egregious people who like the ship. But from my experience, they're toxic af.
Honestly? Bumblebee is probably a good example of diversity shielding "done right".
When bad writing is covered up by the minority/diversity within the subject.
But I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't even intentional on writers behalf, afterall, it is cRWBY were talking about
Im gonna give my 2 cents on this since my view is mixed.
And its a long ass comment, and im not on a computer so its not gonna turn out proper, just me relaying my throught process.
Now first things first i wanna comment briefly regarding the homophobia thing, i talked to alot of people in the community for the past year or 2 and I've gotten many different perspectives and i ce to this general conclusion, there is a group of people that are against the idea of 2 girls being together but that is a very small number of people, but the mass majority of people arent homophobic at all, the main problem they had with the relationship between yang and blake varies on 3 things which typically boils down to this: 1) there was already a build up with sun and blake and they just threw it all away just to pander to the audience who wanted yang and blake. 2) there was no build up between these 2 at all and they are suddenly into eachother out of nowhere in v6. 3) their dynamic was suppose to be a sisterhood.
Im not even going to bring up the whole montys vision thing, thats just asking for me to lose braincells over this claim.
But overall, the general consensus of this faction of the community is mainly the lack of context behind the relationship between yang and blake while there is context of a relationship build up between sun and blake. Nothing in their criticisms had ever been really homophobic in nature, BUT, i am putting it nicely because while they are not homophobic themselves, they dont really do themselves any favors when they say something that can easily be perceived as homophobic.
Now to this long ass comment.
Im gonna be fair cause i personally have to reflect on those ive been around and myself when it came to watching shows that contained same sex relationships, while i am no stranger to real life same sex relationships since ive been friends with alot of lesbians back in school, the mass majority of my young life experiencing many series had always been the usual boy meets girl tradition.
The very first time ive actually seen any animated show that ended up having same sex relationships was the legend of korra, and even that wasnt noticable but the reason for that one was explained by the creators, lgbt in the early 2010s were not widely accepted in a "kids show" by publishers and they couldnt outright write out a noticable relationship building up between korra and asami, so they had to approach it with subtle hints and clues, which is why it sparked alot of controversy among the community, because many didnt see anything going on with them and thought it was out of left field.
However, there were others who were able to see the those hints and pointed them out. I personally didnt see anything about their relationship because i was so use to shows sticking with the boy girl trope that I expect them to do the same thing, but until i took the time to rewatch it with full context in mind, i was able to understand what i was overlooking about their interactions, and i made that same mistake with yang and blake cause i didnt pay attention much to their interactions since i already assumed they are just really close friends and seem to have a special bond.
Not even considered their relationship maybe more than that because i expected RT to go along with the same ol trope by having blake with sun. But the end of v6 pretty much slapped me in the face for thinking that because when i went back over the series to pay attention to yang and blakes interactions, i came to realize the series of events with yang and blakes relationship is extremely similar to korra and asamis. And given the timeframe of rwbys development, i was personally wondering if miles and kerry took the relationship formula from the korra and asami relationship.
While i want to say im not validating her point, i will say I understand it mainly because of my own experience in viewing these characters. The mindset i had with yang and blake since v2 was that they seem to be pretty good friends, and as time went by till v6-v8, i still held that same view but stating they are very close friends, not taking a step back to think if RT is actually going to make them a thing instead of them being more as platonic soulmates.
And i will admit i am ashame that i didnt take a moment to realize that sooner, the main reason i feel ashamed of that was because the way the relationship was structured, if it were a boy and girl situation, i would've thought it was a really complex yet interesting relationship, but i viewed them as really close friends, i did think back to what i thought the first time about their relationship, not because their both girls but because of how their relationship was built up, ive seen slow burn relationships built in a similar fashion through books ive read not revolving around relationship, but does have some elements of it, and ive always appreciated how they developed the girls relationship and thought these girls wouldve turned out as an interesting couple given what theyve been through, but i was passively ignoring the possibility of that actually happening because i was under the impression RT was going to do the same ol trope. I was wrong and it was the second time i overlooked and ignored other considerations, rwby surprisingly became the first series for me to take a moment to re-evaluate how i should move forward when seeing relationships, meaning that i should not presume what kind of relationship is being built based on their sex.
I know i said the first time ive seen this happen was legend of korra, but the reason this series isnt the first to make me re-evaluate how i should look at relationships is because korra and asami was never made official in the show, even by the end of the show the only thing the creators could do is show them hand holding, again, they werent allowed to show lgbt representation in an obvious manner given how times were back then towards same sex relationships. But in the comics, turf wars, the creators did not waste any time to actually make them official.
RWBY on the other hand actually did make yang and blake official, but more importantly, i shouldve connected the dots when it came to illia, and when it came to jaunes older sister and her wife that RT is actually open to approaching relationships of the same sex without having the same pressure on them in the same manner as legend of korra, and i know those are 2 different matters since legend of korra was broadcasted on tv ( so there was more risk of scrutiny ):while rwby wasnt, but because the subtlety of yang and blakes relationship is very similar to korra and asamis, i still wonder whether they either A. Werent sure how the community would take it and decided to take steps, or B. They actually studied the formula of legend of korra, monty back then did told miles and kerry to study ATLA, but it wouldn't be abit of a stretch for them to do the same thing with LOK.
So yeah, in a sense I understand her view, not saying whether shes right or wrong, but i do get it.
RWBY the fandom i used to like and now seeing the fandom is still the same as always. I'm someone who likes ships and many more cause it's fun for my imagination and i keep it to myself and not argue other people's ships cause in the end it's all fun and games and people can ship whoever they want since it's fun for them. I think Bumblebee is a cute ship but what i think is it's not right to send death threats to other fans in the fandom or the staff like seriously what's the point it makes you look like a jerk. Ships is supposed to be fun and it's all headcanons. I'm okay if many people doesn't like the ships or shipping in fandom general then i understand it's their choice not mine. [sorry for about my grammar and sorry for the rant i just need get stuff out of my chest and maybe this wasn't the right video to have my rant about ships being taken seriously if this wasn't the right video i'm sorry]
I agree with this video and that Bumblebee is poorly developed, but I do have one thing to say. I don’t think the discussion of bias is something that automatically subtracts from an argument being made. Pointing out the existence of a bias does not mean it's a detriment to the conversation by default, it depends on the way the bias is acknowledged. The point is that the existence of a bias should never subtract from the OBJECTIVE point being made. Are they using the existence of a bias to attack the argument itself, or are they using it to make a point about someone's character? The objective point being made and the subjective reasoning behind it need to be separated in discussions like these. While someone may be objectively correct, there is still value in discussing biases that a person may hold and how that can reflect a larger cultural attitude towards a topic of discussion.
For example, Leon Critiques made a point in his comment about how this mentality plagues the Avatar fandom. There isn’t anything wrong with the discussion of whether or not Korra would be liked/disliked more if she was a man. Acknowledging how men and women are treated differently, even in fictional scenarios is always a prevalent point of discourse because it can influence and reflect how men and women are treated IRL. The issue would stem from when this discourse is not separated from just analyzing Korra’s character as objectively well written. That's when the conversation about Korra’s character halts, because there is now a lack of distinction between both arguments (Ex. If you like Korra’s character, that means you believe people who dislike her are sexist against women; If you dislike Korra’s character, that means you believe people who like her are sexist against men). Neither are arguments invalid for discussion until it's used in the WRONG discussion.
(It's basically like whataboutism; If I say I view Roosterteeth as a bad company because they have bad practices, let's say someone responds to me saying how I don’t care that Disney is a bad company with bad practices too as a counterargument. Having a discussion about Disney being a bad company isn’t the problem, it's that these are entirely different points that don’t contradict each other by any means, and are only being used to deflect the original point being made by an accusation of bias.)
There isn’t anything wrong with Xiao Long Media making the point that people would probably interpret Blake and Yang’s interactions in volumes 1-3 as more romantic in hindsight if they were a straight couple. She would have a valid reason to make that point if you analyze LGBTQ+ history on a broader scale, and there could easily be an interesting discussion to be made there (Same with your point about LGBTQ+ people being more likely to defend the ship). The problem is when that argument is framed as a way to invalidate all criticism against Bumblebee not being properly developed as just a Heteronormative bias. The discussion of whether or not Bumblebee is a good ship isn’t being separated from the discussion of whether or not people are more likely to view straight pairings as romantically coded than gay ones. It's not the discussion that there may be a bias that is inherently the problem, it's the way it's being utilized and muddled in this particular situation.
"The problem is when that argument is framed as a way to invalidate all criticism against Bumblebee not being properly developed as just a Heteronormative bias."
Which is exactly what I stated in my video. Xiaolong media made this statement at the end of her V1-3 section after simply talking about the relationship between both characters not really mentioning the wider discussion or detractors of the ship prior. It comes nearly out of nowhere and without addressing the specific arguments people have made against the ship. So when XL makes this statement she relies on such huge assumptions. 1. People are less likely to recat this way with a straight pairing (which is wrong as I stated in my video. Not to say that some degree of bias doesn't exist but at this point, media has progressed to the point where it's practically negligible.) 2. that the evidence of Blake and Yangs potential relationship is so blatant you would have to be blinded by bia to not see it. 3. This is a significant level of bias that effects a majority of critics of the ship (not true btw) and 4. That this argument would not apply to her, who would have a vested interest in this ship being good for several reasons (including the fact that she herself is lesbian).
Not to mention, the discussion itself in most cases is a bit of a trap in the context of RWBY, because you would have to ask this question "how much does that bias effect the judgements people are making?" And at that point, unless you are some kind of social scientist or familiar with the subject, it is very very very difficult to actually quantify that on a large scale among those who are critical of Bumblebee. It would be better to bring up the possibility of bias in the context of specific arguments individuals are making. This would be fine if XL made examples of the kinds of arguments that would indicate such bias significantly drives these arguments, but she didn't. So we're left in the dark trying to figure out what in the world she is talking about. And by that point, the already volatile members of the fanbase will take this argument the wrong way, the damage would already be done.
Tl;dr not only was XL's statement inappropriate given the rest of the video, but even if it was she would have very little grounds for it, given how in the past 20+ gay ships and straight ships in media have been recently treated even at the time of her video. Not sure where the disagreement is here because I never said that you can't discuss bias at all.
@@KaiserShounen
‘Not sure where the disagreement is here because I never said that you can't discuss bias at all.’
This wasn’t meant to be a disagreement or criticism of your video actually, I was trying to add to the discussion. Your video (and reply) is primarily focused on how Xiao Long Media is wrong for assuming that the reason people criticize Bumblebee's development is because of a heteronormative bias. My point is that even if there was a bias against Bumblebee for not being a straight ship, the existence of said bias wouldn’t factor into the discussion of whether or not Bumblebee was well written or not and if criticisms were justified (Which is why it was inappropriate to bring up). I was trying to offer another reasoning as to why Xiao Long Media would’ve been wrong to imply her original statement due the context of what she was talking about (If anything, we just disagree on what the primary issue with her point was). Sorry if my OG comment came off as accusatory, I can understand how the way I worded it would’ve made it come off that way.
‘It would be better to bring up the possibility of bias in the context of specific arguments individuals are making. This would be fine if XL made examples of the kinds of arguments that would indicate such bias significantly drives these arguments, but she didn't.’
Yes, this was the kind of discussion I was talking about that would be fine to discuss with Bumblebee. Criticizing specific arguments that show bias for or against Bumblebee would be fine rather than attacking any individual for holding said opinion. That way it's easier to have a discussion about this because it's no longer an assumption about a person you don't know, but about the substance of what they're actually saying.
@@AzvreMoon ok I think I get this a little better
Can you tell us which anime/video game/cartoon couples do you enjoy? Here’s a list of mine.
1. Denji x Reze/Asa from Chainsaw Man
2. Gambit x Rogue from X-Men
3. Kaneki x Touka from Tokyo Ghoul
4. Trevor x Sypha from Castlevania
5. Loid x Yor from Spy x Family
6. Batman x Catwoman
7. Akira x Shizuka from Zom 100
8. Inuyasha x Kagome
9. Miroku x Sango from Inuyasha
10. Alphen x Shionne from Tales of Arise
11. Tidus x Yuna from Final Fantasy X
12. Clive x Jill from Final Fantasy 16
13. Sly x Carmelita from Sly Cooper
14. Joker x Makoto from Persona 5
15. All of the romances in the Dragon Age Series
16. All of the romances in Fire Emblem Awakening and Three Houses
17. All of the romances in Baldur’s Gate 3
Miroku and Sango is pretty good
The Renora ship wasn't perfect but at least they had some interaction and good chemistry. And they're technically secondary protagonists.
And don't forget about Deku x Ochako from My Hero Academia.
@kidprime6863 Omg yes Deku X Ochako for the win! They're just so cute!
@@kmgyening I think Deka x Ochako is alright, but it's just Ochako wondering whether or not she should confess her feelings towards Deku.
@samflood5631 Understandable. I really hope she does confess and I wanna see how Deku responds. I hope they get together but if they don't, then it won't kill me
Ah yes, the fourth shipping war I've lost in a row...
For all those crazy shipping people out there.That will literally call you a homophobe For not liking their ship. Here's some advice It's a little thing called fan fiction It's a way of writing your little fantasies out and have the story in the way you want it to without offending anybody except for the people who probably will criticize your grammar , In your little fan fiction story often you're a little imaginary land any character can be with any character as long as its age appropriate of course And doesn't involve weird stuff ( I'm looking at you weirdos who try to Ship ruby with yang , you weird weird freaks I could have gone my entire life without ever knowing that that was a Ship that actually existed)
Saying the sky is blue is like saying water is wet. Both can be argued but are used in the same way as a obviously true statement
My brother told in Christ what was the point of Son and his entire plot in volume 4 if not to establish a clear pairing that was even visible in RWBY Chibi
A little advice try to not include thumbnails that have a redline at the bottom. Most of the time it appears as if the video has already been watched so people might skip it on the cou t they think they've already watched it.
#GreenlightAnotherBumblebeeVideo
This reminds me of what I felt lately about FF7 Rebirth. A lot of people liked that game but at the same time, a vast majority hated the game, because of how it handled some of the key moments and changes. And your video actually reminded me, that I have to be respectful and collective, when it comes to criticising some of the game's points. Nice job on the video, Kaiser. 🙂
I don't like the gum with Marceline, for a reason, I hate the gum
I've done that it's bad idea way beginning to keep up like that so it's like 1 shot 1 kill with franchise you don't have straight characters that just caught lot of problems
Kaiser....8.50-9.06....hopefully she's changed her mind based on other media watched and you add a image of Char....🤣 Are you trying to shoot yourself in the foot?
I see no problem here lol
13:00 that didn't age well
No. NaruSasu is a no. Doesn't make sense. They were never shown to be romantic for each other. They have a brother like relationship and those exist between men in real life with their closest friends. I have that kind of dynamic with a few of mine. Chillout on that take.
I never said that they did have romantic feelings for each other. All I said was was that I would rather they get together than them getting with Sakura and Hinata because those chicks are poorly/underwritten characters and their interactions with Naruto/Sasuke (while good sometimes) is overall half baked. In an ideal world the pairings we got would be well written. But my point of making this argument is that Xiaolong media's deal about unconscious bias against gay ships is barely even a factor because many would rather Naruto be gay than get with Hinata.
I would still rather have white rose
Some has an ounce of common sense. Thing is 3 orc4 years ago you'd have been canceled for saying this.
Making this cringe ship canon is like giving into the terrorists. The fans are just too toxic, like extremist vegans
I honestly didn't care if it became canon or not, as long as it was endearing and sweet. But what did you expect from writers who care more about the show's plot than its characters?
Woah dog, chill. Im sure most fans of the ship are just normal people that wanna vibe.
@@KaiserShounen I wish I could believe that. But sadly I received dozens of death threats for merely disagreeing on a simple rwby fan page.
I support bumblebee because Yang doing Blake is hot.
The r34 subreddit is bigger than the main one
THIS COMMENT IS A *HUGE* NITPICK AND DOESN’T REALLY PERTAIN TO THE VIDEO.
1:48 - 1:56 made me cringe a little. You aren’t wrong but… trying to intimidate people on the internet with reporting just feels a bit… weak.
You aren’t wrong by any means, she definitely SHOULDN’T be harassed. But you did kinda lose aura when you said a naughty word to catch our attention and started acting all serious…
Im the first
I have to ask, did you get permission to review her video at least? It seems kind of disrespectful to offer critique and your own personal opinions on it without asking the creator if they can at least review it and share your thoughts on it.
Not really. You don't need the original creators permission to respond or critique their content. XiaoLong Media's video is there for the public to respond to and I linked the video in the description. TH-camrs do this all the time. Plus, given how XiaoLong has been radio silent internet wise for a while, I doubt I could even contact her if I wanted to.
I find the very notion that you need permission from someone to review their public content to be deeply problematic.
@@zeroconnect5910 Well, put it this way, you are partially using their content, which they took the time to make, to critique and create content and revenue for your own, all this without even asking them if that’s okay with them. That’s just my perspective.
@@davidkoudelka10 Dude, this is all fair use. Its not like I'm re-using their entire content. Just commenting on one specific section. People on youtube do this all the time and no one has a problem with it. Plus the video is FIVE YEARS OLD. I doubt I'm taking any revenue from a channel of their size. Did you think I asked Lily Orchard her permission to respond to her in my previous video?
@@KaiserShounen I never said you were doing anything wrong. Besides, I got no experience with stuff. That’s just something that came to mind for me.