Single Point Threading, Want to do it better ?? Watch This Video.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- STOP cutting threads based on the depth !! If you have any chance at ever single pointing a quality thread, PLEASE WATCH THIS VIDEO. You'll be glad you did.
Need Thread wires? Let me know -- aiproductinfo@gmail.com
Joe you should do a screw cutting 101 video. Im a beginner. Ive watched your thread cutting videos and understand some of it but that pitch diameter, pitch wires,etc gets me everytime. Using the subjects of all 6 of your thread cutting videos and show how to cut an internal and matching external thread from start to finish
I recommend getting a Machinery's Handbook and reading that section. It gives a very in-depth tutorial of the process and the measurement. There is a lot of info in there so take your time reading through it.
Joe, I single point thread quite often. I've watched a ton of your videos pertaining to threading. I'm going to put some of this knowledge to work. Thank you for taking the time to mess with the cameras so we can all learn from a master.
So then the question is do you make the part to print or to standards? :-) Sometimes they don't agree as there maybe special call outs to allow for coatings or post processing. Gear cutting is the same way its the Pitch diameter that matters not the root.
@nick f - That's one thing about engineers / draftsmen, they often don't bother to call out things they should such as standards. You have a dimension (if you're lucky) and that's it.
My experience has been, when a dimension doesn't make sense, I question it, I don't change it to what I think it should be. If you're on you own, like making a replacement part for something made by a company that's dead and gone, you're only left with standards regardless of what the design considerations were.
I've never gotten in trouble for making a part to the blueprint dimensions. It's the engineer's job to work out the dimensions, and the bastards seldom 'show their work' on how they got there (no notes on the print identifying the difference from standards). Meaning, there may be a good reason why a dimension is different than a standard but there's no way to know that from the blueprint.
Joe, I understand what you're saying, but I still have to move the compound in by a certain amount to cut the thread. Granted, when I get close I should be checking PD, but isn't it true that I could be using a plain 'ol depth reading to get 90% of the way there, then start checking PD? I can't start checking PD after the first .005 pass, right? I still need a rough idea of how far I'm going in, is my thought... Cheers, Dan.
After a while, you will get a feel for the crest flat. When it gets close to your expectation, then check with your wires. But having a starting target will make it easier.
“The metric system - since 1792, the system trusted by 15/16 of the world.” This Old Tony.
Wouldn't that be 93.75% in metrispeak.. Just say'n.
so you guys know fractions and decimal aren't the same as Imperial and Metric
Its only a different language. Its not more precision.
Brad Mcgrath someone forgot to convert the imperial joke to metric standard for you to get it.
You know America did pass metrification laws, 1975. And I quote wiki:
The U.S. Metric Study recommended that the United States implement a carefully planned transition to the principal use of the metric system over a decade. Congress passed the Metric Conversion Act of 1975 "to coordinate and plan the increasing use of the metric system in the United States".
I love your rants, Joe. I learn something every time. Keep it up! 😁
Hi Quinn. Thanks for stopping by.
Great video Joe! Interchangeability of parts, was the key to the industrial revolution! "During the Industrial Revolution of the 19th century, machines took over most of the manufacturing work from men, and factories replaced craftsmen’s workshops. The event that laid the groundwork for this monumental change was the introduction of interchangeable parts,..."
Your videos are a joy to watch. I've learned a lot about machining, but even more important - you're really good at taking technical concepts and breaking them down into clearly understandable pieces. That's a rare and valuable talent - thanks for sharing it with us!
Thank you.
Took your advice Joe. Smacked my boss.
Any jobs going?
Tell him I said he deserved it.
"if you have any questions...." Yeah where do I begin!? lol
I watched this video three times. I get it. I made a proper 5/8 X 18 bolt using the wires. Cut a 2A thread to perfection.
I used a tap for the bore to check my work (pretending I sent my bolt out to bumfa) my bolt fit perfectly. I could not have asked for a better fit. Not loose and smooth as glass.
I was going to buy a thread mic. Not any more.
Joe, I love you man!
Update - I pulled out my thread wires, measured the threads I cut using this technique, and calculated a pitch diameter 0.0006 larger than the 1/2/29 UNEF standard. I'm declaring victory.
It was a "drop the mic" moment. well done.
Good advice if you're doing small quantities , using threading tools that you ground yourself. Good advice for anyone just starting out.
However, for producing larger quantities, I recommend buying carbide insert threading tools, and using pitch mikes in place of wires.
To check internal threads, consider just using the appropriate tap, instead of a plug gauge. It's cheaper, and will bring a thread that's a little undersize up to proper size.
If you plan to hit the checkbook, buy hard gages and stop messing around.
Hi Joe
Metric and Imperial are constantly at odds.
The Moon landings were fine with the later?
Good video Joe. I'm sat here watching in my light blue Advanced Innovations t shirt that arrived today!
Hey MrCrispin. Good to hear from you. Thanks for wearing the shirt.
No problem. In fact I'll shoot my next video wearing it. Always thought I could be a model. Lol.
As expected words of wisdom.
Threading is such an interesting subject that has occupied the minds the brighter machinists for many many decades. I myself have a video on the subject that demonstrates a style of threading tool from 19th century. Very useful for times when you can't easily disengage the leadscrew as the tool lifts clear on the reverse cut. You colonials should be proud as it is an American idea.
As for 3 wires, one day i will do a video showing my one handed three wire system that requires no calculations! Interesting or what?😀
Joe i have been a subscriber for quite a while and have like you always threaded from the headstock but you are the only one who has explained measuring of threads in a way i could understand now my threads are wonderful and acurate with great fitment thank you so much for the rime you take to teach
You are by far the best at the theoretical side of machining, very informative video thanks for the effort
Thank you.
Joe!
You made that very easy. Just completed a A3 5/8x24 and pulled a PD of .64872
And yes, threaded away from the head stock.
Nice. Pass it on.
Nice review. Made sense to me, and only had to watch it once.
I bought a thread mic long ago, you tempt me to get wires and give it a go. be nice to have comparison if something doesn't make sense.
ASIDE Question: Cutting male threads on a CNC [OMNI GT-75 for reference] Anyway I learned thru trial and error that doing a spring pass or the final cut was too small the threads looked rough compared to doing a bigger cut on the last one.
Both were good, just not as pretty... material 303 , I just learned to do it one way but not figured out why the light cut kinda chowder-ed up the threads a little looking with magnifier. Carbide insert btw. Any insight? This was from a few years ago, and just did a memory recall. Not seen if with Brass, 17-4 etc. just the 303 , the sulfur maybe...
I still want to know the thread depth, so I can creep up on the pitch dia. The Starrett "fish tail" allinment tool has double depth of thread listed on it for a reason.
enjoyed the lesson, please keep them coming...
Thanks for stopping by Chuck. Always good to get a comment from you.
Ummm-crest and root flats are NOT identical for UN or Metric threads. For an external thread, the root flat width is P/4, and the crest flat is P/8. It's the opposite for an internal thread. Thanks for the videos, though.
Are you sure about that? All the old books I have say for ext threads 1/8P root and crest but 1/4 for minor dia of internal thread and 1/8 for the major.
@@chrisstephens6673 Machinery's Handbook #26, p. 1706, Basic Profile of UN and UNF Screw Threads
@@andywander thanks andy will check it out
@nick f The Basic Profile shows P/4 for the root flat of an external thread.
A job I worked on a few years ago almost required purchasing a specialized internal micrometer that had spherical anvils (if i recall correctly) that measured pitch dia of an internal thread. Specialized and expensive. This application required actually obtaining absolute pitch dia data for engineering purposes.
Wow! This video is priceless! When I was in school (a very long time ago) I wish I had metal shop teachers who were half as talented and knowledgeable as you are, Joe. Thanks so much for this excellent tutorial, and for all of your other wonderful videos.Question: There are lots of charts available that list tap drill sizes for common taps, both imperial and metric, but I have yet to find any charts at all that list recommended rod diameters for common die sizes. Why is that? If no charts exist, then please tell me how a person can find out what the recommended rod diameters are for various dies. It usually becomes a case of "Guess work" for me.THANKS AGAIN!
usually its just the nominal dimension of the thread ie. m8 thread uses 8mm rod, 1/2" threads use 1/2" rod, job done no charts needed
Joe, I watched your first video at the time, and it completely changed the way I thread. Your technique is just so much easier. 👍👍
yeah, but, how deep?
* runs away *
As always, Joe, despite being an old man - I learn something every time.
Thank you.
Measuring threads over wires is shown in Machinery's Handbook. Anyone know of an equivalent for ID threads?
Find an ID pitch gage online.
Winner Winner, thread pitch wires for dinner!
Even when fired up Joe is still a nice guy! Never change Joe Pie, never change
Thanks. I do have my moments.
I saw a couple videos where folks made screws that thread both counterclockwise and clockwise, depending on the nut you use them with. They were multi-pointed threads. They look knurled, but they're definitely threaded. Have you ever encountered a real-world application? I can only think of two: Your rapid-tap device, and those screwdrivers that rotate when you push them into a screw.
I always learn from You, the easy way. Simple and clear, to stick for ever. Great channel !
Thanks for watching.
Personally you want to know thread depth. The main reason is to figure out the minimum depth to cut before using the wires. Saves time.
I actually have a spreadsheet that will give me the thread depth, based on the starting diameter, be that ID or OD, and the PD. It also takes into account, the tool nose radius. As such, I can usually land within .001 of the PD before I ever have to check it. Very Handy.
@@MrGettinlate If you are getting within 0.001 on the wires, very good. I ain't that competent.. :D
As I don't have a lathe (maybe someday), I'm just a home (disabled hobby machinist on my mini mill. Working slowly towards CNC conversion, and hopefully will be able to cut threads then. Any words of wisdom would be appreciated. Keep up the great work!
I'm confused by "start with the face, not the side". When cutting RH threads, how would it even be possible to start from the side? And for LH threads vice versa?
Hi Joe, Phil here from Western Australia. Love your videos. I’m a late starter learning a few machining skills in my sixties. Your no nonsense, cut to the chase style suits me perfectly. Keep up the great work...Phil
Thanks Phil.
You're slightly wrong there Joe - an internal thread can be checked using a Carl Ziess metroscope (used for calibrating screw plug & ring gauges, AND Parts, but they are expensive kit.
Hello Joe. I have to make a clone of a special brass fitting. This is not a standard CGA type fitting and there are no drawings or specs. to go by on this part. I had to reverse engineer this fitting to get all of my dimensions. There is a M24x2.0 external thread w/ a .33475 radius in front of the external thread for sealing off high pressure nitrogen, and a .761-14 internal thread on the opposite end of the fitting. This is all of the information I have on the internal thread. My question is, to maintain interchangeability of this fitting, how do I get the other dimensions I need to machine this internal thread? I need to know the pitch diameter, minor diameter, major diameter, and I only have the minor diameter. I have to make four clones of this fitting. So I need to make a thread plug gauge, and a thread ring gauge to check these threads during machining. How would you approach this in your shop?? A little about my background. I have 21 years total experience in manufacturing, ten years in machining, and 11 years in welding. As far as machining, I have experience in manual mill, manual lathe, CNC, CNC programming, setup, 4 years of CAD using SolidWorks. I'm currently a prototype machinist for the US Army. I am a US Army veteran. I served 9 years in the Army. I've been watching your videos since you started in 2016, I still enjoy learning from your video content. Thank you.
The machinery's handbook should give you all the construction standards for the pitch and diameter you desire. Remember to use the internal pitch diameter on the external thread you will use on your gage. A lot of guys miss that fact.
I blow people away at work with the strategies I learn from your channel. Im constantly learning, retaining and applying what your teaching all the time
Thanks.
I enjoy your videos and your passion for machining. I've used your threading technique ever since watching that first video. I'm soooo glad you now use a tripod! :-) The only problem I've had using the technique, since I don't practice thread cutting much on the lathe, is making sure I hit my mark on the dial. Lots of time after you run off the end of the thread with your technique but a smaller window if you miss the mark on the thread dial. This is usually solved by a few "practice" engagements with the tool moved away.
I did a video on engaging your halfnut made easier. Check it out. I agree with the "off the part" practice runs. Good practice.
@@joepie221 Yep, I've seen that video and that's how I've always done it. I just can't get to anxious on starting to applying a bit of pressure as my lathe has 24 engagement points, so not far in between them.
Wow, you have really great content and speak very well on camera, with good explanations. No idea it's only been 3 years; I've been following your work since pretty near the beginning. Graduated UT last year, keep enjoying Austin and doing great work.
Hi Joe, cheers again for another super video. I have posted before asking if you could do something on cutting a double helix thread. Keep up the pearls of wisdom.
Ye you getting passion about threading!
Ye me with you.
I'm passion about safety in the workshop.
Found you thru blonidhack
Great Channels
Hi Joe
I agree with the sentiments and principles you expressed but cutting threads by using thread depth is used successfully if you follow some rules. What you said in the video definitely applies to hand sharpened tools of dubious dimensions. However if you use a precision thread cutting insert tool of known dimensions then this is a completely different scenario.
When thread milling on a CNC mill, the effective thread depth is used because it must be programmed into the machine as there is no human intervention. This is applicable to a lathe situation.
If the outside diameter of the part is machined and measured accurately, a simple formula can be applied to determine the depth of cut. Once near the target depth, the thread pitch diameter can be measured over wires. I have included a few notes below
I would appreciate your comments.
Cheers
John
THREAD MEASUREMENT WITH WIRES
The best wire diameter for 60 degree thread form is 0.57735 x Pitch
Measurement over wires = Pitch diameter + correction factor
The correction factor = 3 x wire diameter - 0.866025 x thread pitch
. If the best wire is used this reduces to a correction factor = 0.866025 x Pitch
For best accuracy use the recommended wire diameter for that pitch. The reason for this is that the wire tangent contact point is at the intersection of the pitch diameter and the flank of the thread form.
MACHINING AN EXTERNAL 60 DEGREE THREAD WITH THREAD INSERT CUTTER
Total depth of cut = (measured diameter before machining thread - target thread pitch diameter) divided by 2 + 0.433 x Thread Pitch - tool nose radius**
(**Where a manufacturer does not use a single nose radius, the manufacturer of the insert may use a flat end with two smaller radii to remove the sharp corners. Don’t use these radii. The manufacturer will specific a distance from the apex of a theoretical 60 degree triangle to the nose of the insert. Use this distance in the above formula.)
Informative info as always . I have used the DD chart since i was 14 back in 78 but you need the mating part ! I think you converted me to wires a while back & i bought a set , just have to start using them ! Glad to see my sticker made it safe , Cheers Joe .
You are on the board !!
@@joepie221 Thanks .
Hi Joe,
Surprised Adam hasn't sent an Abom79 sticker. :-)
I'd put it up, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting to see one any time soon.
Ok joe i spook on the subject . on my 100 year old lathe that as no Lead screw. that as no led screw & no third Dial. I finally found a way to cut a thread, on my old lathe with out a thread dial & or a lead screw. I thought I would shar it with .You Thinking would like to hear of ny answer to the problem i had Yes i have to tack notice of rear in the lathe , so how did i fix my problem . well i now ues a Mill thudding tool in a router at a speed of 300 RPM in fact to a woodruff key cuter sapped to a 60 degree thread point cutter just as if it was a single point lathe tool , i can buy for smaller size threads , even savage broken taps.
but putting the tooling in a router. that spins at 3000 rpm i can rotate the chuck as a light cut & start to engage the half nut in your case in my case the rack travers & that at the desired pitch or the Thread i wont. cut just as if normal single point threading. it work Remarkably well & it as a the added benefit of being able to use one third mill four more than one different thread , depending on your size of cutter , & selected choice. size of hole is irrelevant solong as if a stander thread standard criteria is followed for it's upper & lower thread pitch , i cant do videos that's why i right thanks for your help its help a lot Les England.
Pleas excuse the Dislexcea .
Look up Gagemaker adjustable pitch diameter gages and thread disk software.
Wow, that is a fabulous site.
As always awesome video. I don't even know words to describe how good work You are doing. Thank You Joe 👍
Another good one Joe! Your videos have made my threading 100 percent better with far less pucker factor. Keep up the good work!
If it weren't for your "thread rants", I wouldn't be cutting threads correctly...sometimes.
Who hit thumbs down? Don’t be mad because you can’t cut metal.
Like so many things, there's a BIG difference between the guy doing it as a hobby and the guy doing the work professionally.
Thread fit is a STANDARD and just because the off the shelf nut fits doesn't mean it's right and conforms to the standard.
One of the reasons a thread fit is specified is because a certain degree of thread engagement is needed for strength of the connection or perhaps a degree of "looseness" is needed to allow space for sealants, locking compounds etc..
Good info, Joe!
Thanks.
Dam it more bad habits to loose
The ideal flat root you mentioned is not the case in some situations. Some threads REQUIRE a root radius, and a vary accurate and clean one. I worked at a place where this was the norm. These were UNJ and UNR with different variations of them. We did not cut them though, we rolled them.
Cutting tool suppliers typically only supply single point threaders with a root flat, OD, on the tip when it is a Acme, buttress or square thread. Most others have a radius that is dependent on the thread being cut. A radius is better for heat dissipation, which in turn extends tools life. This is a deep topic, why Joe is probably so passionate about it. He did a good job of an overview and pointed out the important characteristics of proper thread forms.
Another great video.
Greetings from metric uk :-)
hear one for you to ponder .
:- I have an old, UK school lath, That as a short. lead screw Shaft, driving a second shaft , that is powers by a set of thread & cutting gears , & Banjo . I can prudes thirds with this lath. But I have to time the lath as I do so. As we have no trad chasing gag fitted to the lathe'. When they . later fitted , The led screws to these Lathe. because we fawn the technique for cutting single point threading was benin lost. So fitting a led Screw became the norm, The need to time the lath. was lost & went away. But I still do because I have not fitted a led crew yet to replace { My rack } which is my led screw.
I was thinking off fitting a Rotary 8 Threading-dial to the rotating drive shaft . that as no thrds just a long key to overcome the problem of no lead screw. & timing but haven't go to that yet , ? Interesting Problem bont you think . The myford lathes has the sam tip of shaft with threads & a way to capture the threads so it can drive the sadal .
don't you think it a {Callusing graduate Master} lath made for schools They will cut threads but it requires the Timing of the lath . Something that is tort. in our schools.
When you think about it we do not re qirt, need For led screw to cut a thread providing we have a rack That was it's primer Function , before the lead screw was adopted. to be driven by the Banjo. solong. as the timing the lathe is made easier. we still do not need a lead screw>
I don't sups you have one to Try this out on . but when you give it thought it. becomes pretty clear . hope this find you & You have something to say on the subject As interesting as you programs are . & i play them for my grandchildren to whach as a good subject matter over this pandemic. alas the subject is no longe tort. in schools. & the young can't single point thed. unless they have had it handed down by the grandads , OR watched a lot of youtube i must say this is why it must be re posted. over & over agen boen the years ,
Are all wires created equal? Any brands to look for or avoid?
I trust SPI
Have you ever used thread triangles? I have a set and the work great for V threads. Thoughts?
Dear Joe
Another great video.
If you have a copy of "The Engineer's Black Book", the tapping drill size pages list the Pitch Diameters for you. In this book however they call it the "Effective Diameter", (perhaps because the origin of this publication is Australia where the terminology may be a bit different?).
I hope that is helpful.
Paul
I believe that term comes from mechanical engineering, treating it like 'gear pitch circle'?
www.quora.com/What-exactly-is-pitch-circle-and-its-significance-in-gears
Joe, I watch that first shakey video a few years ago and was so impressed I subscribed and you followed up with some additional good videos. I was so impressed by your content all of a sudden and seemingly out of nowhere that I asked where you came from. (If memory serves you said New Jersey). Anyway, you started off great and just got better. Now I often see or hear other You Tuber's quoting "Joe Pie". Glad you are gentle today.
I am flattered by all the support and trust. thank you all. Yep Jersey boy. 37 years
Thankyou Joe !! Wish I was young and your apprentice you are a great teacher my friend, Mark
Thanks.
We just had a part made for a German machine by a large machine shop. They struggled to get an internal Acme thread to fit the adjusting shaft on the machine. They had the original part and they measured the threaded shaft (20mm?) on the machine. State of the art shop, quality control lab etc. After many tries they finally got a fit. I had no idea it would be that difficult.
Metric threads on a imperial lathe never is funny because of the odd tpi you have to deal with.
Acme is NOT used with metric values!
The corresponding metric thread is a trapez.
Now why is this very important? The reason is that while their shape look the same to a naked eye they aren't. Acme has an angle of 29 degrees while the trapez has 30 degrees.
Both threads rely on a large contact area to keep wear and friction under control, use the wrong tool and you will get a very small contact point and a thread that will fail quickly.
(There are also other trapezoidal thread forms but these two are the most common)
It sounds like they had their heads stuck between a book and a computer. Sometimes old school will simplify things. If you have the mating part, measure the pitch to the best of your ability, grind a tool to match the profile, allow an appropriate amount of clearance, and cut the threads until they fit..
@@sharg0 Yep! When I saw Larry's comment I was going to make the same comment as you. Nice catch.
Not as clear a message as usual. Could have used some clear overlays to demonstrate what interferences and dimensions were being referred to.
I thought it was pretty choppy and frankly at times it reminded me of a drill sergeant seething with frustration, brimming with misplaced intensity, and pissed off with his audience. At other times it was more like the guy on the bus that no-one wants to sit next to, delivering a rant freighted with baggage from past grievances and bordering on incoherent.
That "fed up, hopped up" mindset doesn't make for complete, clear, comprehensible and lucid explanation.
Thanks Joe. You are 100% correct! But, having said that.... Job shop machinist 40 years and I've gotten the thread wires out maybe twice (I think for a class 3 fit). I don't remember having a thread come back for poor or no fit. Hand ground high-speed, square to the work by eye, compound at 29.5,
and cut the thread. Use a nut to check it. I guess I've been making lawnmower parts all these years.
I spent the majority of my shop time in aerospace, medical and semi-conductor. Every thread had a class. I'd have to say after 40 years of luck like yours, go buy a lottery ticket.
@@joepie221 I understand, and your attention to close tolerances is quite justified. The lion's share of my shop work has been in heavy industry.....coal mines, rock quarries, well drilling, railroad, etc. Much more forgiving work. You are a master machinist and I admire your work. Thanks Joe!
I wonder how SpaceX runs their job shop. I worked with a NASA guy for a time and he wanted to verify the line voltage and that the electricity was actually supplied at 60Hz as part of a qualification package for a medical application. A generous 6 week timeline for writing and executing a qualification package ballooned into what would be a 6 month qualification package. He was chopped and I took over and I got it done in 4 weeks. Interchangeable means interchangeable. There is no "one" test. Everything of importance is checked and rechecked and checked some more. My guess is that 98% to 99% of the job shops work just like you describe, cut the threads and check them with a bolt/nut for play and call it good. I don't see that the 2% of job shops are going to start mandating that all threads be measured with thread wires. That's way too much time wasted. It is a nice video but only relevant to maybe 2% of the shops that need to do this, and they already know they have to measure and verify threads to class and they are onboard. This rant is much ado about nothing. You didn't have 40 years of good luck, sorry, you were doing things exactly as you should have done them. 40 years of cutting threads and none ever came back for poor fit or no fit says it all.
All job shops making threads than need to fit parts that are not also in their control need to stay within the tolerances specified. You're probably right 98% of the time the tolerance will fall good even with threads checked against a nut or bolt but consider the cost of the 2% of jobs that get sent back for a thread that doesn't go together or worse the thread strips in service because it's been over cut. If it's a one off part the cost and time of checking it properly is trivial. If it's a batch of parts then measuring first, last and samples will be sufficient in most cases. It doesn't take long to make a go/nogo plug for internal threads that puts you comfortably within the max/min pitch diameters. Quality is a state of mind. (Joe has it).
@@MrSailbadthesinner No arguing your point in theory. So why do 98% of job shops go with a qualitative test nut/bolt versus a quantitative test unless specified otherwise? The way Joe said it is everyone else is a sloppy lawnmower part maker. I would say the real world data doesn't support that a quantitative test is superior to a qualitative test for 98% of the work going out the door. GE was a big believer in SixSigma and where are they now. NASA was known for very high quality standards and they priced themselves out of the market. Quality must be applied in context or it becomes quality exercises. Everything must have a cost benefit.
Excellent subject well covered Joe, yes applicable to metric and all screw threads. Think of trying to measure your foot whilst wearing "Winkel Picker" shoes 🤔. Hit Google for anyone under 50.
Thanks for sharing and best regards from the UK.
I just finished a job that I described to the customer as " trying to cut your toe nails with your shoe on". Your comment is timely.
@@joepie221 Thanks for replying, If I may suggest a part two, ref practical/comparing thread tapping a female, then screw cutting a male versus to correct pitch diameter. But don't scare the guys too much, hobby guys and gals are very welcome/needed.
Yes you have confused, and hopefully edified many with your topic. As a small shop owner, I have thread plug/ring screw thread gauges from M6 to M20, with certificates, plus two screw thread micrometers with 6 anvil sets from 0.35 to 6.0 mm pitch to circa 46 mm diameter.
Many TH-cam viewers see small shops, thread a male to a nut, or supplied mating part (hand made or proprietary) and think thats it!, but as you stated, machine shops rarely have the mating part, and it would be bad practise to do so, unless the drawing calls for matched/lapped etc.
Another subject if I may suggest is a split nut to reduce backlash, (before ball screws were readily available, with design preload), ref Bridgeport X and Y axis nuts.
Again enjoying the subject and presentation.
Regards John.
From tire sizes to threads, from gears to lumber sizes, without standards where would we be?
Stoneage
I noticed a little flustration from some of the comments. Doing machine work requires a lot of patience to get the results needed. I use many methods to get the results I need, depends on the job. I cut mostly LH acme custom threads, I sometimes use a measurement from surface to the bottom of the thread as a reference. When getting close to where I want to be, then I use a custom pitch diameter checked with wires. I have samples of most threads I do from making the original part longer than needed cutting off the extra length to use as a plug gauge. This is a great video on how to make your parts to the industry standards established to make our jobs easier. Thanks for putting this information on line for all of us to share!!! Great job 👍
You should get used to working to standards. Its a good practice.
Saw that video, long ago - yes, its bad but that is why I subscribed. Wonderful videos. Thank you for sharing.
It was my very first one. Thanks for sticking around.
My pleasure. Its always the student's gain when he finds a great teacher!!! :)
Good job.
I tried using pitch wires, but the frustration level went too high. I bought a pitch mic. It seems to work good for me. How do you like pitch mics?
To be completely honest, I don't like them, and don't use them. I'm a wire guy to the end.
Hey Joe thanks for another great video! Just about everything you said was new to me as a home gamer hobby machinist. Any you could just post a link or leave a name for a decent wire thread gauge set?
Keep up the great content. 👍
Buy nice or buy twice... You cant go wrong with Brown and Sharpe or any name brand, but the differences will be negligible. www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/Measuring-Inspecting/Dimensional-Measuring-Tools/Thread-Pitch-Diameter-Measuring-Wires?navid=12107674
All I can say is thank goodness you got frustrated at some videos. You have been turning out top notch videos that I have enjoyed and learned from.
Thank you very much for all your comments over the years. I have noticed.
Very good Joe! Always good solid info. Tom
I guess I need to source these wires now
thank you!
I admire your understanding to the math of machining,in all your videos you never cease to amaze me
Thanks. Its helps to really understand whats going on.
I am new to this amazing world. I read the machinery handbook and it is like Latin to me. Is there a resource that I can get to explain this huge volume?
A machine shop is honestly the best place to learn.
There is a Machinery’s Handbook Guide that sells for about $20, but the Amazon reviews are not that great.
Machinery's handbook is an excellent reference book, and a terrible textbook. Trying to learn machining from it leads to mountains of frustration, and getting lost in oceans of detail that most machinists will never need anyway.
I'd recommend Blondihacks tutorial videos for someone just starting out at home. th-cam.com/video/H6Dnmd3lDzA/w-d-xo.html
You do not want your cutting tool in line with your compound's axis as you showed with the dotted line in the video. You end up with buttress threads. The tool needs to be parallel with the crossslide axis or perpendicular to axis of the work piece. The compound axis needs to be 29.5-30 degrees off the crosslide axis or off the face of the chuck. I know you know this and it was just an oversight while you were caught up in your rant. ;-) You can use a thread depth chart as a guide only to give you a idea when you can start checking with your wires.
Please point out, where in the video I stated that.
At time 9:07 you state "You want the center line of that compound riding somewhere on the centerline of that profile." and you drew a dashed centerline down the middle of your cutting tool.
There is an assumption of common sense and some experience that comes along with this video. To be factual, I never stated to align the tool. The centerline reference was for the compound only. The centerline from the part was from the feature and not the tool.
Great video Joe, can't wait for the next one...
The push pins at the end are awesome. I'm guessing 9mm casing and some epoxy? 👍
Yep. My son made those for me. I really like them.
Hi Joe
In Coventry UK I was screw cutting on a big Dean Smith & Grace lathe, I think it was 62mm thread anyway cutting with insert mounted tool the man on the night shift said don't use the gauges, just cut the thread until the thread o/d measures 62mm -004 thou (-.10mm) you will find the gauges fit perfect, and yes it did, the insert tool form worked out as you got to the gauge size it just took a skim off thread o/d, I didn't find it worked on other sizes sure did save a lot of time!
Interesting looking at stickers jimmy Diresta I was talking to him in Birmingham UK what a nice guy & yes we have selfie!
Those would have been full profile inserts as opposed to partial profile. The difference being that each one is specific for a pitch (you therefore needs a different insert for each different thread pitch - that is their downside) and it has the correct root form on the tip (how sharp or rounded off the tip is) for the pitch and when it is deep enough, it will start taking off the crests so once your OD is right, unless the insert is damaged, you must have the correct thread form. Not that it isn't worth checking it still.
I agree with Gareth Jones. thats a special insert, and yes Jimmy Diresta is a nice guy. Met him a few years back.
Gareth Jones thanks Gareth I have a better understanding of inserts now.
@@Cenedd Yup, those full profile inserts are nice in the sense that there is no burrs to clean, but still getting an accurate thread requires some measurement to be on spec. Of course if you are running the same threads for the umpteenth time, you get the hang of it just from the OD measurement once the first ones have been checked properly. Though in production work there still should be checks made every nth part.
It's always nice to learn from you
Brilliantly explained, as always !
Experience makes a great teacher . . . .
Thanks.
Thanks Joe, love your enthusiasm!
One thing, the H/8 root of a threading tool for a specific thread makes a stronger thread because it spreads out the stress area at the thread root. If you are going to cut a lot of threads then a threading tool for the thread you are cutting is the way to go.
mosfet500 - I understand that having flats on tool tips is far simpler for making threading tools, and for leaving the most material on the workpiece. However I wonder if there's a point where rounding the corners at the tool tip to get rid of the stress riser made by the corners of the flat, would make a stronger thread?
Yes. I believe they are called 'J' threads. Lots of rounds. The crest of the mating part must also have a radius, or the corners will hit on tighter class threads.
There are gauging tools made that MEASURE the pitch diameter of internal threads. They are expensive and of limited range. Unless you make a boatload of the same size internal threads, they are likely unnecessary. You are correct on using the pitch diameter. One of these days you may want to actually explain what the pitch diameter is.
Google it. My explanation was spot on.
You are one of the very few who actually know what you are doing. That is one of the reasons I watch you. I know exactly what the pitch diameter is. For a number of years. I was the go-to guy at Baker Hughes Inteq for threads. Try getting a connection to “time” when made up with 40,000 pound-feet of torque. Defection plays a major role but measurement must be done while the material is not stressed.
I just keep hoping that one of these times you will explain more about the pitch diameter than its function in sizing the thread.
Another great video! Thanks
Hahaha, perfect. I was threading tonight 2.075 - 20, and I was wondering how to figure out the depth of the thread XD When I figured what it would be approximately, I used the advice from your previous video to set the depth without trig. Great right? By the time I got the thread to depth, and got a sharp crest, I had dulled the tool, so the Min. Diameter was radiused. Not a big deal, It's just to fit something else I need to turn internal threads on in the shop (Fly Cutter to fit a Shell Arbor), but good timing
Joe, from a retired Firefighter/medic and ED - RN, you are SMOKIN' ! I love that passion, coupled with an overt knowledge/ mastery of your field. For all of us chip makers seeking your level, please keep it coming. The info is astounding. Thank you!
The content is great, but I'm hitting the LIKE button because of the Star Wars reference
Joe, I find this thread measuring system with wires very interesting.
I have only used thread micrometers and have found this system to work well, what is your findings with thread mics?
I've always been a hard gage or wire fan. Not much of a thread mic fan. Just personal preference.
@@joepie221 Hi, many thanks for your prompt reply, it is quite interesting the difference between yourselves in the states and us in South Africa where I guess we still have t5he British influence.
Watching your videos is quite an eye opener and even after 60 plus years association with the engineering profession (not all on the tools) I am still in a learning curve, thanks again.
Brown&Sharpe, a major contributer to thread standards actually manufactured some off standard threads in their form tools. They made it so you had to buy their mounting bolts, not an off shelf bolt. Off the shelf bolts didn't fit but were dimes. B&S bolts were dollars, but they fit and the job would run.
Nice rant, from someone who knows what he is talking about. Thanks, Joe!
Cheers, Gary
Joe, if you really want the pitch diameter of an internal thread, how about this:
Starting with having accurately measured the minor diameter of the internal thread, place a small ball (of known diameter) down inside in the thread, and then use Gage pins to see how much protrusion there is of the ball up into the bore.
As I see it, you can accurately measure the bore, you can accurately measure the ball, and by using the Gage pin, you can determine the pitch dia.
Thoughts?
I actually thought of a piece of wire of a known diameter laid into the helix and making at least one full circle. Then check the ID. Makes sense to me. What do you think ??
@@joepie221 yeah, spiraling a piece of wire in could work pretty well too.
Would obviously have to have a very smooth bend, with no kinks. Or, that would throw the measurement completely off.
Otherwise, as the other commenter pointed out, we would be at the mercy of trying to locate a ball the correct diameter...
And, I think using a thread Gage would probably be a hell of a lot more fun... but then you are at the mercy of making the thread Gage, or waiting for the one you ordered to show up - which might not be that fun, either
@@joepie221 - who sells coiled gage pins? :)
@@joepie221 Like an internal version of O-vee wire gauges.
Joe, do you have a sticker from Adam Booth (Abomb79)?
I too have the same question......please !
Although I met and got along with Adam booth, he was once a subscriber and cancelled his subscription. Took me by surprise. No sticker for Adam.
@@joepie221 .....Peace !
I've used the "wrong 30 degrees" before. Different lathes have different zero reference points as to where 0 is and where 90 is. I had my compound set to 30 degrees (29 1/2), so I think I'm good to go. I needed to be at 60 1/2 to have the proper angle. Thought I was losing my mind for a while till I figured out what was going on...
Err.... Joe, pal, Comrade...
I must say that Imperial threads tend to come out askew when Saturn is in Uranus... I may be me but it's worth considering !
Metric threads on the other hand....
All nonsense aside, those thread gauges (internal thread measuring) are getting to be quite affordable.
I bought two sets, one for standard metric and one for fine metric (M3 to M12) and they were about a 100 euro a set.
Sure, they aren't NASA-grade, but they will do for the average shop and definitively will do for the shed-warrior.
Some years ago, I managed to get my mitts on two Russian NOS thread mikes... A thread mike is something you think you never need...until you used one/bought one.... then you wonder how you ever did without...
Do you plunge in at 90 degrees, or do you go to the whole "sidling in approach" ?
That has spun out to a discussion on par with the one on "the gender of the Angels" ...
I contend that with modern equipment, and for smaller threads (M8 or smaller) there is no need for the whole side-wards skulking up ... If the cutting tools are correct and decent quality (and the machine has enough 'humpf') this still go for bigger threads as well.
It seems like this is something left over from the years of Yore, that just refuses to die
Toodles!
Paddy
Awsome rant Joe. Such a good video I didnt realize I needed this until after watching it. Bang up job buddy.
Joe I have a passion to the milling machine. Climb cutting and conventional cutting a a lot of your views would like a video on this? Christopher.
Sorry to say all matter, major, minor and pitch dia. I suggest using a id thread mic with interchangeable balls to figure out the pitch dia. Like putting a ball into an internal thread and measuring like pee dee wires. 1/8 pitch for the flat usually works well