Feeling like an outcast after being the narcissist's scapegoat
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2022
- In today’s video I discuss how a narcissistic parent can treat a scapegoated child in ways that get that child to identify with being an outcast. Next, I describe the dilemma faced by the scapegoat child of either taking on the role of outcast or feeling like nobody to no one. Last, I emphasize the importance of finding new sustained relationships with people who can afford you ongoing connection so that you experience a new reality where feeling like you matter to someone important does not require you to assume such painful beliefs about yourself.
A link to the paper on projective identification:
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No one has articulated the tormented life of the family scapegoat better than Jay. I frequently have to hit the pause button because he has put words to a dynamic I have never found language for. Thank you Jay.
I know right?! x
So well said!
Yes he certainly has, and I for one appreciate it so much! 😇 Thanks Jay!
He’s been incredibly helpful because he’s been there. I read on his website that he was his family’s scapegoat. But it’s amazing how well he has figured out how to overcome it and in such a positive way.
@@christar9527 Ahhh!! I did not know that! Of course. He understands it at a very deep level, more than any resource or therapist I’ve encountered. Now I see. Jay has transformed his pain by offering his gift of intelligence and empathy to help others heal. What a gift.
"I'd rather be a NOBODY who cares, than a SOMEBODY who doesn't."--A quiet mantra I came up with and started living by when I started my recovery.
That is excellent. There's a possibility some athlete/artist/author already said that one, but you can know you uncovered that independently anyway. Maybe it's even worth attempting to copyright/trademark/whatever that mantra. That is universal wisdom that would've easily been in "The Bible" or the "Tao te Ching" if you were actually just hanging out then, to say that thing. I'll even try to remember this simple little thing when I go to bed.
@@phoenixfire2445 It was something I witnessed. AA meetings I'd attended were just popularity contests, with only the same few speakers across this region. I saw many people "go back out" because "the 'good' AA people" ignored them.
After 8 years around these clowns, and a sponsor who exaggerated my wrongdoings to anyone within earshot (and ruined family relationships as a result), I left.
BTW, in April my dry date will reach 12 years.
I've been a nobody and when I was younger it felt like a death sentence no one wanted to spend time with me except for a very few friends who had their own problems I didn't have one healthy person in my life and then I linked up with a narc to make up for not being seen
@@leahflower9924 My heart goes out to you because I was in a very similar situation while growing up. Instead of just linking up with a narc partner though, I didn't know that almost all my "friends" were narcissists too. Those I was trusting were simultaneously ruining my life behind my back, and they often had help from my mom or family. My recovery really began when she died, but that's another story. They all had me thinking my mind was lost and I was worthless. Lots of self-reflection and therapy has flipped it around.
If you get to thinking that "nobody cares", you're right--but not in a depressing way--there is a nobody who cares about you.
Also if you're that similar to me, you may be more attractive than you were ever led to believe, and you probably have a better-balanced view of "beauty" that goes far beyond appearances.
Thank you for sharing. This exercise speaks to me. I find myself coming up with "quiet mantras" to center myself at work around an OCPD/NPD manager.
I wonder do people identify with the idea of double-gaslighting?
I just realised a reason I never had any idea who or what I was, was this double gaslight.
The first gaslight is that I’m too sensitive, anxious, introvert, chaotic and unfocused ..yet when I eventually cave and accept those labels and try to be seen or understood within them - suddenly the second, exactly opposite gaslight begins - now I’m strong, confident, assertive, intimidating with my talent.. ie I couldn’t possibly be hurt, bullied, need to avoid some group activity etc etc
I literally just got this clarity 5min ago.
I was not allowed to lay claim to any form of being, not a personality trait, or a mood, or a difficulty.
Nothing was mine, I was always making it up, always wrong, always exaggerating. What an anhillation of self for a young child.
❤ find your own self you don’t need those people
Thanks @SoCalgirls 💚
..but I’m talking about childhood and understanding how we have had our psychology and self concept shaped.
@@annastone5624 You have to heal your inner child
I have never identified with a comment more strongly. In childhood we look to our caregivers to see us for who we are and therefore be able to define ourselves, but when they assign us negative character traits, we identify with that to survive in order to get approval, and having a negative self perception is better than not having a sense of self or belonging at all.
But then the narcissist is parent(s) suddenly pathologize us in new ways according to what THEY need us to be, and we are on the endless rollercoaster of endlessly trying to keep up and form a stable sense of self in which we belong, when the only rule is that we have to be whatever the abuser wants us to be at that particular moment. They can give you a sense of self just to take it away and replace it with a new one.
Double gaslighting for sure!
@imapandaperson 🙏🏻🥰
Thanks for sharing and validating that dynamic.
There's an extra isolation of not being seen, or thinking everyone sees what the abuser has projected for so long in private, but especially that other relatives can't see the real us. They don't know about the rages at home because the abuser has the mask perfectly in place. It's a lonely place for a kid, and it's a sophisticated game they play.
I hear you. Beautifully worded truth. The pain and isolation of being abused, neglected, invisible at home only to be constantly told in public how lucky you are to have this shining example of humanity as a parent because they're so two-faced. My love to you ❤️
@@yamlwoz Much love and gratitude for your reply! It's good to see and be seen. 💛
I completely understand how you feel. It was demoralising being screamed at for existing and even more draining to have to go out into the world and paint a smile on your face and pretend to be happy. As you rightly say, nobody who sees you outside of the family or parent who is doing this to you can possibly understand what you are going through.
@@sandramurray5879 It's good to find people who can relate, at the same time, not good we had to grow up like that. Hope you're finding peace. It's a long journey for sure.
@@pelletier4432 Yes, thank you, I am happy now that I live in the countryside. I find life less stressful; I enjoy being outdoors and I am definitely improving. I still sometimes think of the past and get upset, but it has helped to watch these videos and read some books and understand what was happening. It is also a relief to know that for us scapegoats that it was not our fault. It was kind of you to reply to my comment and I appreciate it - thank you. I hope your life is also improving.
I think that the only therapists that truly understand narcissism are the ones that have lived it and really suffered and survived. They give advice that actually works. Thank you Jay.
went to counselors when I was a teenager and in my 20's, I tried to "get help" but none of them seemed to understand and some of them seemed downright bored of me.... they were not helpful at all... I started thinking therapy was mostly a scam, I even lived with a lady who worked as a therapist out of her house and she was kinda nuts
I can relate to this!
@@emmalouie1663 I just saw your comment and I hope that you are thriving and doing well! 💜
"Comply or psychically die." So true ... 😢
I've found it nearly impossible to establish new relationships as an adult after realizing I was scapegoated by a narcissistic parent because all of a sudden there's a cynicism and paranoia that I'm going to get sucked into another type of toxic relationship, especially after recognizing, in hindsight, that most of my past friendships have also been quite toxic. It's hard to know who to trust since narcissists often wear very clever disguises. It also doesn't help that the narcissists out in the world seem to zero in on those they sense have been previously abused while the "safe people" seem to avoid anyone with a history of severe trauma.
Thank you! ❤
Reading this I have felt similar, I know I need too open up more, and try too develop more relationships with people who are safe, but like u said I'm kinda paranoid and cynististic, it's been hard finding safe ppl also.
God bles and good luck on ur journey ✨️ 🙏 💛 💓 ♥️
Yup. This. Thank you. Hard to have actual experiences in actual relationships that offer the needed NEW experiences, because of exactly what you said.
I feel the same way. I've learned to distance myself from everyone, and to cut the known toxic people completely out of my life whenever possible.
It seems that way. I know that feeling it feels like you're stuck in hell
There might be other professionals talking specifically to the scapegoat’s healing, but idk where they are. Thank You for your videos. They are groundbreaking for me. You help me so much. I feel I am turning a corner in my independence and healing.
I’ve logged years trying to figure out the confusion surrounding the covert narcissist’s behavior, damaging to everyone but himself. Focusing on myself is incredibly freeing.
Patrick Teahan and Crappy Childhood Fairy/Anna Runkle are both very helpful in a similar realm.
@@supernova2875 Jay and Anna both live in the Bay Area. I wish they’d do a team up episode.
I also stopped therapy for that reason. I became exhausted of therapists repeatedly telling me, although each in different ways, that I was lying. And they would try to stealthily start to try & deal with my “compulsive lying” or reframing of what “really” happened. The reason was slways the same - nobody would do those things to their own child.. I have to realize that most of them were less intelligent than myself and this was very frustrating. I would know that I wasn’t going to get any help there whatsover.
Another fail.
@@rs5570 Ha! thanks for sharing. That has been my experience, too. That's why I stopped looking for therapist or sharing my story with people (face to face). The fact that they may think that I'm making it all up (you can see it in their faces) just adds to the pain of knowing how pathological my family is. I hope you are okey. Those videos helps a lot.
This is one of the most interesting and powerful videos I have ever watched on this subject. It explains an awful lot about my childhood. I find, even now, that when people accept me I wonder when they will reject me and try and keep myself slightly isolated for fear of being hurt. I'm still amazed that I got through my childhood but I realise I will never have a normal life, but I am happy just to try and understand and make sense of what happened all those years ago. Thank you for a very insightful video.
Same here Sandra. I was also amazed that I went through childhood against all odds
However, I have not and will not live a normal life. Above being said, it is extremely liberating and comforting to be able to understand what has happened, and why
@@anniewang9723 Annie, I'm sorry you have suffered too. But it is wonderful that despite what you have been through, you carry on and remain positive. I totally agree with you and I wish all the very best for you because you are brave. It's good that we carry on regardless hoping that we can improve our life in small ways.
I have feltt like an imposter. That I am only faking being a person of virtue and good character, and given half a chance the dark, bad side will come out. But this is false. I actually am a virtuous person of good character. I am kick with that basic truth under my belt but the brainwashing that goes on is profound. I can’t seem to shake it as much as I wish I could.
@@rs5570 I can completely sympathise with you there. It is not easy to change your mindset when a narcissist has lied to you. It's good that we are all watching these videos and trying to heal though. I know I will never be normal but I can always keep trying to be the best that I can be. Take care and just believe in yourself and know that you are a good person.
nobody to No one .so very TRUE..I wonder if that is what makes a scapegoat codependent again to future scapegoaters !
Havnt had that experience before of feeling wanted or 'part of a family'. I used to unconsciously run after it and try to find it... and I was hurt by those closest to me again and again ... I cant and don't want to try after being hurt heart deep by a covert narcissist boyfriend who was the clincher in all the experiences... both in breaking me down and waking up and educating on all these subjects... but still very much alone as (long story short) institutionally betrayed, and disownen by family, and targeted and smeared by the religious community. It was ingrained since I was a kid that I was "not normal" especially that I had no primary school or mainstream schooling and even I kinda knew I was being abused, I didn't know the extent of abuse because it was normalised and when I tried to speak out, even when it came to authorities they wanted to break me down as crazy and a lier... and that made me feel so isolated and unsafe I felt emotionally exploding inside... but to show that weakness I knew it would only further used against me as if Im just crazy and a lier. I know talking about my past only encourages people to think I am, which makes me feel more weird and alone... I had no clue about fashion, certain social skills.. all things most people learn when they are in school... held hostage by a crazy family, and when you try to excape and start a new life you get yourself stuck in a religious extremist cult group... that was in the past and a lot happened since... I don't feel people want to even hear my story, or trust myself to say it after being made to doubt myself so much... but either way, those ghosts of the past dont shake off just because you made distance, nor therapy etc... its something I feel I best not talk about to protect myself, and not talk about the making of me and who I am if I dare want to have any so called normal westernised friendships. ..but even then no matter how much I dress and try acting like everyone else... at some point the mask slips and people find me too much and end up distancing themselves from me... I know I tried to give my heart and all to others in the past... but after the last significant narcissist/psycopathic person messed me up that insanely bad, I feel my heart is burt to smithereens to be able to love trust or have relationship. .. even if I want to. Ive changed. I don't like it, but on the same coin Ive opened my eyes due to the catalyst. .. when you lost everything even the one you love... its like the dream of idealing love like it means so much is busted, if you get me.
Apoligy for the length, just wrambling, and it got long.
It's an honor to read your story and it will help others to relate their experience. Well done!
I wish sometimes I wasn't such an empath when I read stories like yours. I feel every razor cut that society lays on people like us also. Hard to push forward when you now know most peoples' intent in relationships are selfish ones.. I understand now that it is a crap shoot to find a good person. A numbers game. Use your tools and protect yourself is about all you can do. Love yourself.
Finally your comment. 😪 I feel like the family’s scapegoat oldest of 4 brothers single parent household(mother) who suffer from depression and other related. I feel like none of them care about me. Mom kicked me out when I turned 18 and told me a few times her mom kicked her out when she turned 18..always compared me to her boyfriends in a negative way. Has a favorite son. 2nd to oldest. After researching I’m pretty sure I’m the scapegoat of a narcissistic family. And then my girlfriend of since highschool been together forever (almost 12 years) took a narcissist test and got mild both times. And before she told me I did research on what one was and she fits the description perfectly. That being said I’ve been losing my shit. Feel like I have nobody to talk to and I only feel the need to talk to somebody cause we can’t have a normal adult conversation. So i Try to talk to my family and I just get even more emotional. I’m not handling this shit well I know I just need to seperate from her and them.
I probably should have wrote more I’m just so tired of voicing everything at this point.
I’m starting to feel like I’m overreacting about everything cause no one taking me serious like what are the odds of ending up in situation like this
Gosh, I'd never want to relive my childhood again. Great video.
I'm with you on that, Nise
edit: which is why we MUST Heal from this or we will unknowingly repeat our childhood again and again with different people
@@angelika87 I agree because I ended up getting into an on/off relationship with a serious narcissist and so glad it's been over for awhile. So what you said is very true.
Wishing you peace. 🦋
It’s great to hear practical information for those of us who grew up with this, and still trying to make sense of everything and live a fulfilling life.
It was an eye opener for me to learn that surviving the experience of these family dynamics is the win!!! It gave me a lot of respect for myself-before I did not know that surviving is the victory. Those who had power and authority over us did not want us to be happy and thrive in life.
Even before I came across Jay Reid’s information I had learned that one of my best “revenge” tactics is to have a great life. Also during my purposefully infrequent interactions with certain individuals, I make sure to announce how happy I am with my life.
Why would my happiness bother another person? But I can see it does- he will question my happiness and I just give a firm “yes I’m really happy!” And obviously I am not involving him and his team of flying monkeys in my life so he takes it as a personal insult. How can I be happy when I am not following their rules? Yes, I have problems, of course, and still trying to settle myself down after years of this abuse but here I am. Thriving and having a good life on my terms.
I'm so happy for you!!! Big hugs. You did it. Ur a Badass!!!!!! 👑❤👑
Yeah, Amy!!! You shove that Happiness right up in their faces and don't you let them take credit for it either!
Yes, Amy, surviving these experience is winning! We are heroes in our way.
Oh heavens. Worst is when I'm in a group where I am just being myself, when there is no opportunity of doing something or being useful. It's very hard to change. When you take away people pleasing I don't know how to function socially.
Something that happened the other day- I got a call from my work that one of my co-workers wanted my number. I said yes and then agonised over maybe she was going to tell me I am stupid or talk too much. Well, what she wanted to know was how long she should leave her tip money taped to her mirror (something I had shared with her that worked for me). I can't believe how I instantly assumed the worst.
I hate groups. I always avoid them. Never did work related parties... I don't enjoy it and figure I get paid to do a task so I show up to work do the tasks and leave... other people of course form friendships.
Wow. My husband experiences this in his family. Spot on. I've finally had to say to him: have what relationships you want to have w your family members... but I can't stand by and let our kids be manipulated and brainwashed to occupy the inferior status in your family too... so as the kids and I have drawn away from the abusive family, so has my husband... and he is so much more at peace w himself now. His confidence is up and our business growing. (The mother and sleaziest, slickest, conman brother would always insult his engineering business and destbilise his sense of judgement, to have the desired negative effect... truly, these rats are so shallow.)
I am glad I will NEVER understand the maggots...Dr.Reid has REALLY showed me I instinctively took the right road...
But I was stuck....now I am moving again...with tears for the REALLY good kid I was...
and trying to not keep harming myself by EVER putting myself in the company of similar maggots....
Does anyone else feel if they really admit it that there are NO people that are safe? Every time I've trusted I've been disappointed. I actually fear people.andifsomeone I did think might be safe criticizes me, as happened recently, I went into a full anxiety attack, years (hid it thankfully) butf felt bewildered, gut punched, and destroyed. And this isn't the first time, and I'm old.
I feel this way a lot because I've had similiar experiences, you're not alone and I'm sending you a hug if you need it. Hang in there.
@@aliendeathrockerThank you
Does the narcissistic parent know what they are doing? This video is so powerful. It describes my childhood perfectly, it almost made me cry. For decades I wondered why I always felt like an outcast, unwanted and was being met with hostility not only in my family but also in school and later in work environments. Why would anyone do that to his/her own child? It's like they are trying to kill their own child's spirit, soul, being...
That’s exactly what they want to do: crush the person’s spirit along with any dreams / ambitions.
Because they are not normal. Now think about my Narc mother, her mindset is like a 3 years old . She will smash all the toys she doesn't. Just because she doesn't like them. And her scapegoat child is worse the the toys, because she has her own thoughts and needs and she learned to articulate them. She is not only bad but dangerous to her 3 years old mother.
My mom literally try to murder me when I was 6 with very high fever, pretty unconscious, she thought it wouldn’t take much..I survived that attack and froze for life till I had an awakening at 40.
One good thing about being an outcast is that there are so many outcasts that a community already exists! You described how things are so very well, Jay, esp “comply or psychically die”, which compliance usually ends up causing anyway. One of the most difficult challenges I’ve faced is to not treat narcissistic people with contempt, disrespecting them because of their weakness and lack of courage to look at themselves and do what’s required to heal and grow up. Loving the unlovely is a massive challenge because contempt, hatred and revenge are much easier options in our human nature, but no good comes from it though. Life is not fair, that’s for sure.
I don’t love those that abused me. I don’t hate them or seek revenge. I leave them alone and take care of myself.
If love doesn’t flow naturally towards them then don’t, because you are not being true to yourself. Just don’t have hate and move on with your journey.
I don't "love" my abusers. I don't seek revenge, either.
@@Gemmarose9012Hell yeah! Same here 😊
Thank you Jay for creating THIS safe space for us! ❤️🌟
I'm so glad I found Jay's channel. I was the scapegoat who fought back against my narcissistic grandparent. I never felt that anyone cared to stop the bullying until I was a freshman in high school. That grandparent died 2 years later, and nothing had been resolved. I'm learning a lot from Jay's videos. Thank you, Jay, for really seeing us!!!!!
It's more like I felt like I KNEW or took for granted that I was defective and unloveable, and if I ever received love, it was from a place of obligation or pity.
This is so helpful, thank you! I was scapegoated as a child and then also by my in-laws when I entered their family as a young adult. Now at 34 I'm trying to unravel all of it and you always articulate the emotions and thoughts of this process perfectly.
best channel in history of youtube
I felt like an outcast until I met my mom’s family after a long time. They’re very warm, welcoming and were happy to see me. My dad and his family are narcissists
I thought I had left by moving away but ended up in a worse situation. 🙃 luckily I realized what was happening because of the pain I was in. Very disappointing but enlightening.
It is totally possible to get a sense of belonging. It's not as warm as the narc promised, but it's real.
THANK YOU for explicitly stating that the survivor needs ACTUAL experiences in ACTUAL relationships to recover from this form of abuse.
Thank you for understanding.
Dude, you get this so much better than anyone else I've encountered. Thank you so much.
I have 4 siblings. I am the scapegoated youngest. My parents are now dead. My oldest sister (a golden child) defended my father when I tried to tell her he was a narcissist:
She said, “He told me that he hopes you know you’re still part of this family.”
I had never thought of myself as not part of the family until that moment. What he did there, making it seem like he was concerned while outcasting me.
I was shocked.
Hello. I have found these videos and they have been helping explain things to me. I looked at your course and it is just way too much money for me. Because of all the narcissistic abuse I am now physically ill. Because of this I am on disability at no fault of my own. I have not been dropped from my insurance so I can no longer see my therapist. I'll just keep watching your videos on TH-cam. Thank you.
Jay, thank you so much for your content. You speak to my mind, my heart and my soul in these videos. Just knowing someone understands and cares makes such a huge difference to how I view myself. You are a blessing to this world where we as survivors can sometimes feel so lost and alone. I know by watching your videos and reading the comments here, I am not alone.
Very much agree!
Thank you Jay. Tough day today and this video helped.
Those tough days feel terrible, hope tomorrow is much better.
Spent my entire life as a fringe dweller, even got outcast from a tribe of narcs disguised as scapegoats who were avoiding healing and rather causing more harm than good to others! Healed myself anyway and discovered I AM my own home 🏡 upon escape and that I'll always find my peace, sense of belonging and be warmly welcomed there. Love your content, thanks for inspiring! 💐💝😌
Thanks & good job. I'm trying to heal. I do identify as a rebel/scapegoat/outcast. Psychology seems to be nudging me toward isolation/independence. I'm finding that the further I go down this path (healing?), the more I see narcissism around me. It seems everyone is a narcissist. I don't want a relationship with anyone. They're all toxic. How is that adaptive? It seems that therapy is leading me to isolation.
Yep, I think a majority of people go through that. Give yourself grace and don't worry about hurrying through the process. Your brain has a lot to sort out. Best wishes to you.
@Leigh Ann Walters I see them too. Whether they qualify for full blown NPD or just high in traits, it sure is triggering. We can learn better boundaries to not entertain it. Totally relate with feeling surrounded, but leaving it all behind has helped my physical and mental health by a lot. Peace is priceless after living with a highjacked system for so long. Our systems don't understand a lack of chaos. They count on us not wanting to feel alone, but we can learn to trust and be with ourselves comfortably to eventually step out without worrying about triggers. Sometimes I ask myself whether it would have been better to still be "asleep". Waking up feels like an alien experience. Thankfully there are people here that get it!
I’m with you, safe people are getting harder to find. Smile to your face, stab you in the back. I find so much peace in my own space and in nature, people really don’t seem worth my time anymore. I want to concentrate on my own healing.
I was in isolationfor over 3 years. My brain was sorting out what happened to me
After 1 year 3 months no contact, I'mfinally starting to see and feel healthy people around.
It takes time. I am still isolated but not from fear. I do have support groups and other places where I find joy.
@@dancinginthepurplereign4126 You're right, fear isn't a thing so much as seeing people differently. Maybe it becomes a trust thing. Glad you have support!
The more I watch your videos, the more hope I feel 😊 Thank you for breaking it all down for us. Because of your videos, we are able to understand EXACTLY how our upbringing impacted us, as well as why we presently do and feel things the way we do.
My family dynamic is somewhat unusual in that I'm best friends with my Dad who is not a narcissist, but my siblings have made me a scapegoat out of envy towards me because of my relationship with my Dad. I am so out of here the second my Dad is gone.
@Lucy 2021 My mother’s funeral was turned into a drunk fest by 2 of my “entitled” siblings where they bad mouthed my estranged, scapegoated brother. It was heartbreaking and disgusting. Another bad memory.
@Soliel my father was a loving, wonderful person. Him and I were the worst scapegoated people in the family. One of my brothers was a scapegoat but he went out on his own and wasn’t available for the abuse. I wish I had the wisdom back then to stand up to the narcs and say “We have love and peace going on here and if you are not going to practice and respect this then get lost and stay lost. You are not welcomed here.”
This has been the hardest part of my recovery. Sifting and sorting out the parts of your identity that were put on you by the sick family and trusting that you know which are you and who you really are internally and socially becomes a ouroboros of questioning and looking outside of oneself for verification.
Hi Jay, thank you SO much for all of your content! It has truly been life changing and no other person has been able to understand, much less put into words like you do this experience. It would be so helpful if you could make a video about the part after gaining distance from the abuser/abusers and how to emotionally cope with that. The abuser pushes to get back in and constantly cries and plays the victim to the other family members which then reach out to me begging me to have a relationship with this person. Anything you could explain or share would be so awesome. Thank you!
Iam no longer the outcast ,he sits on his own no friends totally isolated but i think happy , i still feel sorry for him but cant help him , because he cant help himself
yet again, Jay absolutely nails it, conscisely, and so touchingly.
Just the first few words got me fighting back tears 😢
This is lovely advice Jay. I didn't even realise I was a scapegoat until I listened to your videos.
Scapegoat guide… out of the woods
I feel like this is the first time I’ve been heard. It is uncanny the accuracy of this video. Thank you for making and posting this video.
Most of my life... living hell... i gave up when it felt too unbearable...
I have too much social anxiety and feeling judged too much around people...
Yes, I suppose I have identified with having less value, in some ways. I have value i know I do, but no social ''capital''. I'm a single parent, one of my children has autism, I have a very ordinary job, I did not get a degree, I'm attractive but not beautiful. I say this because twice I've been in a group and ONE person wanted me out, and both times, the explanation that made the most sense to me was that *I was so low status that an association with me wouldn't validate them* I still feel like there was truth in that though. Association with me isn't going to bring glory on a shallow covert narcissist, but it still surprises me that they could fawn over EVERYBODY else and ice me out. I don't get it, why not just be nice to everybody. Why do I threaten them? This has happened twice. Two different groups but the women who hadn't ever met behaved in exactly the same way pushing me out of the group. I was a ghost. It did de-rail me. I did wither. I left the groups. This happened twice!. I'm sure it has something to do with my family. There is one perspective in my family, my mother's. SO CONVINCED is she of this, that any attempt to talk to her made her angry, it was an act of aggression perpetrated against her to suggest that there was another perspective. She was always the victim of me. I would love to find a group where I belong and where I'm accepted. I have let go of hoping that my brother will see things clearly. I have no family and I've survived that so maybe the next time I'm in a group, it will pan out differently.
It’s so painful..
I always feel so mad when people say daughters clash with their mothers because ‘they are the same’ That’s so untrue, a narcissistic mother clashes with everyone who doesn’t follow her rules.. a child has no power. It all comes from the adult.
I don’t know what the healing is. I’ve been working on it for years. My current conclusion is I need to be more observant of who people are, watch their character, likewise groups.. many groups are very shallow, and serve for validation and social usefulness purposes, there’s nothing deeper than that going on.. so maybe keep looking for the ‘right’ group.. it’s amazing how insecure a lot of successful people are, they are all in competition with each other. So while they may look like they have alot, they often feel they are failing in comparison to their peers..
Just a few thoughts..
I certainly haven’t figured it out, but after processing some trauma I’m more able to see that other people are pretty selfish & not these wonderful desirable companions I’d idealised them as..
most groups I’ve zero interest in being a part of..
@SusanC I’m praying that I find a church family where I belong. If I don’t find them, I pray that they find me. I had a negative experience like yours in a church that I was an active member of in the past.
Came to _own_ it...better than being a minion in a misery factory.
a misery factory....
In a room full of outcasts…. I am a misfit fringe dweller.
Painful truth.
Thank you for your posts. I'm following your videos. This is such a difficult issue and so complex.
I wonder how this works differently with a parent the child doesn't feel close to, like a step-parent (when the child doesn't need to preserve the idea of the parent as infallible, but the parent has structural power over the rest of the family so the child is still subject to their rules and view of the child).
I grew up, yes, as the scapegoat as my mom and her then boyfriend would openly abuse me. But yeah. I do think the most harmful aspect was my siblings and extended family being involved, either by taking part or ignoring. And never, ever, even as adults, acknowledging (my siblings) what happened to me even though I know they remember and understand at least to some extent, that i was treated quite badly
How about the parent who treats one as the scapegoat since a toddler then the scapegoat excels at a sport for 15 years and the parent treats him as a God,the athlete retires and the parent places him back into scapegoat position again but worse
What a wonderful explanation. Thanks.
When small growing up when our father was home me and my siblings couldn't feel as free to enjoy play in safety. The instinct to play as way to learn is very strong in early childhood. Expecting a small child to learn the proper way to do things before they are ready was so problematic for us. Like when my father was once or twice trying to start teaching me and my 2 brothers 3 years apart how to hunt and fish too soon when we were too small for learning that sort of thing. I don't feel bitter about it because my parents experienced that more so during the 1930's when a lot of parents around had to force their small children to work alongside them often from sun up to sun down so that everyone had enough to eat all year round which sometimes didn't happen.
narcissists tend to not be age appropriate, they don't seem to understand the development of their kids, they simultaneously expect their kids to be mature and magically understand adult problems while also treating them like perpetually incompetent children....
Yes to those questions.
yes to all, still is
Thank you so much, your gentle demeanor and extensive knowledge is priceless ❤
Thank you Jay Reid💛
I think you are so great and I love the work you do . Such a huge blessing to everyone.👏🙏
Yes to all.
Yes yes and yes ❤
They do devalue and with the exception of my baby brother they still dont get...I dont even know who I am after both my dads and bosses abuse .they said sex is a joke...I dont play games or passive aggressive like people at work.
You mention module 4 of an online course. I’m not sure which link contains this.
3:50 this is what narc abuse is…
So, because I’m feeling bitter, I will point out the viewers that the “free e-book” is a small pamphlet that is a mailing-list-building tool. Don’t take the bait.
Pretty sure I didn't "survive" nothing has gotten better after years of hearing about the dynamic. Time for me to join a cult.
🥹 I now understand 👍