when there is a bad boy who is really rich and then there is a plain jane girl who really has nothing special about her and then he falls in love with her and changes for her and later on we find out he was a bad boy only because he has family issues .
100% agree with this! Additional least favourite tropes: the 'I'm not like other girls' teenager (ugh, stop), who is apparently so different and misunderstood and never fits in anywhere, yet they are completely relatable and even borderline cool? Yeah, that.
YES, YOUR PHYSICAL STRENGTH VS. CHARACTER STRENGTH POINT. THANK YOU. Another small trope that annoys me is when the author decides that "strong female character" = snarky attitude. I don't hate female characters who do have an attitude, I just hate when its used solely as a plot device to reinforce how badass a character is, and not because it's part of that character's personality. I mean, can only smart-mouthed girls be considered strong?
Ugh, YES! I see this so often, and it annoys me to no end. A great example is Max from Maximum Ride. She had to be physically strong to be a "strong female character", and they felt the need to give her a snarky, smart-ass attitude to go with it. But Max herself was actually incredibly plain, and she had no character development. Oh, and she follows the "plain Jane" trope as well. James Patterson does not write females well. Sorry for the rant! I just hate the female representation in his books.
I think this applies to the "Token Minority" trope in general. For me it's a sign of poor writing or general laziness for a writer to add a minority character so they can say that their book is "diverse". It feels like they are just filling up a checklist. I cannot abide by that, tbh.
Perennial Rhinitis but if they don't, then they get trash for not including diverse characters, even though their sexuality has 0 relevance in the story. Maybe they are trying to please the readers.
My most hated tropes: 1. Special Snowflake Syndrome Aka when a character has all these powers that they shouldn't have at their age for no reason. 2. When guys are portrayed as a pansy to make the main female character look better. 3. I agree with love triangles. 4. And the insta love thing. 5. And the plain jane thing.
Oh, and I hate the trope, love solves all issues. For an example, a guy or girl falls in love while being depressed, having anxiety, etc. and somehow being in love managed to wipe away all issues. It's irritating and unrealistic. Or the, this person is my cause of happiness, trope. It's like these types of books make characters rely upon others to cure theirr issues and it's the worst form of writing ever.
A Clockwork Reader I forced myself to read it. Nothing happens at all. What also annoyed me was how he was mean to her at first but that made her want him more. Another trope which I don't like. Guy is mean to girl for no reasons, she's in love.
Chantelly Heart Ohhh yes definitely. I actually filmed a review on as series recently where that was one of my biggest issues. I'm just nervous about posting it because I know it's a well loved series loll
Chantelly Heart No actually it's not (because I never finished that series oops) but that's a good example of that trope! It's actually the Shatter Me series.......I had a lot of issues with it.
Clumsiness is one of my least favourite tropes. Oh, look at how clumsy and relatable I am! Disney movies, I'm looking at you (even though I am a hardcore Disney fan.)
“...not a kickass assassin or warrior...” Gotta love that reference to Celaena/Alien, who is literally the most disappointing female protagonist ever (next to Fayrug from acotar)
Strong female character who is not technically physically strong: Sailor Moon/Usagi. She cries, she wines, she can't throw a punch (that's what Jupiter is for), and while she does fight supernatural creatures, her strength comes from her big heart full of love for her friends and the planet she is protecting rather than from any kind of training or muscles. For a series geared toward children, she has a lot of depth of character. She's not particularly talented in anything and is a failure at school, but she makes connections with people, sees the good in everyone, and never gives up. She is such an inspiration!
Usagi is shit. She is an enjoyable and iconic character but she is one of the shallow, untalented heroine who gets the hot guy that is prominent in shojou mangs. 90s shojou is the worst era for shojou. It's a stupid representation for teenage girls.
Cress from the Lunar Chronicles is probably the only character I've read who isn't physically strong...or emotionally strong at all and she's probably one of my favourite characters ever xD...
I get what your saying about the virgin Mary thing but I also feel that sometimes in books,movie and tv they show girls who are virgins like girls who are stupid or insecure or they just plain boring and pretty ugly. and then this guy the perfect guy teach her what real love is and then they have sex and all of her self esteem issue are over. its ridiculous to put that much pressure on teenage girls.
+Books and Songs Yes I completely agree, there are definitely two sides to that. And again, I agree, it's absurd the amount of pressure we, as a society, put on girls and women, especially when it comes to their sexuality and how they approach sex. It's this terrible double standard that just seems to show up again and again in literature/TV/movies/the media.
Omg I had to stop your video when you talked about virgin girls in books to write this comment because I completely agree! I hate it so much! I read a lot of Wattpad romances and many of the romances are like that! And it's so sexist because the girl who can rage anywhere between 18 to late twenties is still a virgin and the guy will be a total player who sleeps around with multiple women every night! So what it's okay for the guy to sleep around but if the girl isn't a virgin and only been with a couple of people it's bad! Like seriously why do people still have this idea that a guy can be promiscuous but a girl has to keep her virginity intact until she finds "THE ONE"!?
Oh my God you are so right about the plain Janes! I hate the fact that these girls only find themselves pretty and strong and talented when a male character points it out! I mean, they should be able to look in the mirror and say to themselves "I'm worth so much more than I give myself credit for, and I don't need a guy to tell me that!"
+taylor reeves Yes! Exactly! That's a perfect way to put it! I get so upset whenever I see that trope, especially in YA because their target audience is young girls and it conveys such a harmful message.
I totally agree with you on the token gay thing! It really often feels like the character was just randomly shoehorned in to meet some imaginary diversity quota. And I especially hate how it's always a separate character developed to be The Gay One instead of just having a character (or, God forbid, the MAIN character) just be gay as one ASPECT of their already developed and important role and personality.
I think the "physical strength = strong" trope is really caused by those authors' internalisation of patriarchal values and the masculine idea of being strong. It's like, because strong men have to be physically strong, hence strong women have to be "masculine" women who are also physically strong. The problem is that both assumptions are false. Strong men don't have to be good at fighting or slaying dragons either.
Jane Eyre (the character) is a good example of a strong female character, particularly for that time period, although I think she's where 'plain Jane' came from...
I know this video is a year old but I just discovered your channel and I had to say this hahaha. I hate the Plain Jane trope too, but I think in Juliette's case (from the Shatter Me series) is not wrong or weird that she feels that way because her whole life she basically has been told that she was a monster and even her parents decided to put her in some sort of prison for years. I think in her case is understandable that she feels that she's not pretty, that she's not worth it. But overall, I almost agree on everything you said. I had to stop myself from clapping
I completely agree with you on every single trope. I think authors need to take into consideration all of our ranting on this topic and learn from it. It will be a win-win situation - no annoying tropes for us, more fans for them :)
I absolutely hate the Plain-Jane as well. She calls herself ugly but she’s actually pretty, nothing is interesting about her and might be a depressing or hateful person (Bella Swan, Feyre Archerson) but somehow everyone is in love with her. She can also do no wrong. She never has character growth either. And always needs a man.
Great video! Agreed on all points. A trope that I can't stand, which sort of ties in with your point about love triangles, is when a character is introduced purely as a plot device and they don't really add anything to the story. Sometimes I see it happen with love triangles where one party is merely there as a way for the the main character to realise they should be with the other party (if that makes sense). It just feels like a waste of space haha.
The plain jane trope literally wants to make me pull my hair out and this not the problem that exists not only in novels but a lot of dramas...so annoying..
what I want to see are female characters that are sweet, nice, and kindhearted. they're sadly very rare in fiction since femininity is associated with weakness. a girl can have other assets: intellect, stamina, she can be a healer, offer emotional support... and the characters who are feminine are either the stereotypical mean girl or shallow and dumb. I can understand a strong female character, but as someone on the more feminine side, we girly-girls deserve better representation. :( this is why I've grown to love sansa stark from GoT. she's got one of the best character arcs, manages to survive, and has incredible stamina. she starts out as an unlikable character but she has grown and developed so much.
Hell one gay character that was done right was Alec from the mortal instruments. The fact that we was gay was somewhat hidden until it was mentioned by clary at some point and it never took over Alec's personality.
Yes to everything you said. Also, the trope that being kind is seen as being "weak". God I hate that. As if having a shitty attitude would make a character stronger lmfao.
I love your videos, because always when you talk about annoying tropes, I look into my own novel and search for possible ways I could have used or over-used them. And I'm always very happy when I see that I have bypassed a common trope that could have been problematic :)
I think the biggest issue with the physical strength=strong female character is that the author often thinks that physical strength is all they need, or substitutes physical strength for making a better character. How often do you read about female boxers, trying to make it big, but facing lots of set-backs for being poor or abused or X or Y? Or any female sports story? There are so many things that physically strong women can do, and yet still be complex, but it seems like once the author has established that the character is "strong" they follow all the same cliches. She's strong, but she is bested and needs the Love Interest to rescue her. She's strong, but for some reason she's still not taken seriously despite her accomplishments and qualifications. She's strong, but magically strong, rarely seen working out, doesn't really care about her strength or take pride it in, and instead thinks she's unremarkable. She's strong, but somehow still needs help to do something that realistically, she should attempt by herself OR all events are orchestrated so that even though she's "strong" she never gets to demonstrate and succeed on something based on her strength. So she's physically strong but never physically stronger/better than a man or if she's better than some men, never her love interest or anyone important. So basically the strength is just surface dressing but is never allowed to affect the substance of the plot that would actually make her a well round "strong female character" because i's portrayal is shallow or the author hasn't thought it through. Anyway, I really agree with a lot of the tropes you hate, but this one especially aggravates me because it has so much potential and yet people fundamentally miss the point of having good female characters BUT ALSO they miss the point of having kickass female characters that actually have their physical strength realistically shown in a positive light, that's for her own good/agency and not for the male gaze that sexualizes "strength" (I'm looking at the Marvel movies here)
You are my new favourite booktuber! Yess to pretty much everything yess. I'm trying to be a YA writer so this was definitely helpful for me, especially with my female protagonist and an accidental love triangle that's popped up (still debating on keeping it or not) so thank you!
I don't want a plain jane, I want a plane Jane. She is a professional solo pilot and she brings home cat themed memorabilia from her travels for her girlfriend, a cat lady by every standard.
I think a female character can be an assassin or whatever and still be realistically weak. For example she may struggle in hand to hand combat but mental skills like coordination, situational awareness, her smarts basically make her a leathal, stealthy, effective combatant. I used to play a lot of RPG games and often you are building your character in certain ways at the expense of other strengths and I think this approach to writing strong female characters can provide more satisfying results without relegating female characters to bystanders.
Oh my gosh I completely agree with you! The Plain Jane trope would totally be at the top of my list if I made one for all of the reasons that you described...thank you for putting it into words. If I ever make a video in which i mention the trope I will direct viewers to this video
about the "virgin Mary" I was aware of the thrope so I played with it a little and in one scene my character (a sweet bisexual guy that was, sadly used in his childhood by a much older woman) is actually confessing to the girl he likes that he would do anything to go back in time and stop himself from giving his first time to that older woman because he wanted to give his first time to either the girl Iy-La (whom he is talking to) or his best friend (named Jai-den that protected and cared for him since he was thrown by this evil older woman after she finished up with him) he wish he could turn back time just to give one of them his first time because he wanted it to be one of them. I wrote the scene with tears. _like I know you hate love triangles, but he's sweet and has a lot of reasons to love both her and him (besides it's kind of a tragedy so... it isn't supposed to be a dramatic love triangle just a really sad one because all of the characters are so sweet and they deserve to be happy but they can never all be happy. besides, it's a real love triangle, the girl doesn't play with both she is vary much in loved with Jai-den, and the bisexual guy Philip first hated her because she was a rival for Jai love but in te end she was the one who pushed him to Jai den giving up on him herself so they would be happy and poor phillip ended up loving her because of it. so it's a tragic love triangle, it's not ment to be dramatic it ment to make you cry and if I made you cry, then I fulfilled the purpose)_
I totally used to hate insta love and then it sort of happened yo me, like, for real, absolutely unrealistic and unlikely but it actually did happen, so yeah, now I don't feel qualified to judge that 😅
OMG, thank you for talking about physical strength versus strength of character. So many "strong" female protagonists get the spotlight because they are physically strong but have no personality outside of her strength.
I completely agree with all of these but especially the second one! Like people see female characters who cry as weak but it's an emotion and doesn't mean they aren't strong.
I feel like insta-love could be pretty fun and interesting if it was played like, where one of the characters is a serial insta-lover (at varying levels of self-awareness of their habit), and where even though the connection is instantaneous the characters still have to put in work to make the relationship rewarding. As someone with Emotional Problems TM that tend to manifest as abnormal attachment patterns, a romance handled that way would be really interesting and relatable.
You look so pretty! Also I totally agree with your least favorite trope! When you said that a female character doesn't seem to notice her worth until a male character points it out to her I was like "yes! Thank you!"
80% of Wattpad stories Hi! My name is Arianna but people call me Aria! I have alabaster skin, glowing blue orbs and wavy brown hair. God I’m ugly. My parents died when I was little so now I live with my abusive aunt. I have exactly 2 friends. Sam, my gay friend. Did I mention he’s gay? He has so much fashion sense. And then my smart nerdy friend. She always cheers me on from the sidelines and has no other life outside of helping me. Then Chloe the mean girl came up to me, she hates me for no reason and wears so much makeup. I don’t wear makeup because I’m 100% natural. Gosh Chloe is so fake. The bad boy of the school, Axel bumped into me. I yelled at him angrily while also blushing. He was at least 6 feet tall and was built like a god. He calls me princess just to annoy me. He’s also my mate. He’s a werewolf and I’m a human oh no!
My most hated trope is the romanticizing abuse trope. Like abuse is never ok, the plot in the story and attack on the main character should not be in the relationship.
YES. I SO AGREE TO THIS. and I want to thank you because I was thinking about putting a gay person in my story, and I realized that yeah I wasn't really giving them any character except gay and that's not right. THANK YOU SO MUCH. I also wanted to say, while I completely agree with the whole "white, straight, thin and conventionally attractive" thing. IT'S ANNOYING AS HECK. But I also can sort of see how a boyfriend COULD reach a girl who was insecure about herself on a level that not many could. The love triangle tho. UUUUUGHHHH NOOOOO STAAAHP WHYYYYYY.
Ohhh my gosh I found this video so late in the game but dude you make these points so passionately and eloquently like wow goals as heck!! Someone should write you as a strong female character ahah
Seraphina is a good book about battling the physical/character trope. In the book, seraphina doesn't do a lot of physical fighting. She's the main character and very important. The situation she's in could not be solved without her. It's a great book!
omg. I tend to agree with you so much Hannah. I believe we like the same things and dislike similar tropes. Love watching your videos. Please do make ranting videos like these. I love listening to my opinions through someone who can voice them better in a language am not so good at expressing.
Thanks you for this. You're absolute correct and author needs to listen to these types of discussions. I 100% agree with the Plain Jane and Token Gay Friend Trope, it needs to stop.
I agree with you on the gay best friend thing. Being gay is a big part of your personality, but it isn’t the only part. Many of my friends are really interesting people, and being straight or gay has nothing to do with it.
Agree with all of this! I’d recommend the Lunar Chronicles series by Marissa Meyer- it features many female characters who are each very different and strong in their own way💜
I don't mind the Plain Jane trope so much as long as it makes sense for the character. The example that immediately comes to mind is Ayla from the Earth's Children series (not young adult, and a little old, I know). She's beautiful, shapely, and blonde, but believes that she's ugly. She refers to herself as undesirable many times. But it's because she was raised by the Clan, a group of Neanderthals, and as a Cro-Magnon she is considered entirely too tall, thin, etc. to be anything but gross. I know there are other, similar examples out there.
Thanks so much , you just helped me in character building, I want to do a female with a not so perfect look that still feels attractive, even tho she doesn't fit into the skinny , perfect looking mode
First of all: "Yes! YES! YEEES!" And then: While you listed all these reasons, i was like: What an awesome book Crooked Kingdom is! It has (almost) none of these tropes! So happy right now to love the book...
My least favorite troupé is the tragic evil antagonist... I hate when a book tries to give a person a reason for being evil I want my evil character to just be evil for the sake of it and not because of some daddy issues
I’d say that a character should ve evil for a reason, whether that’s a mental condition or their beliefs or anything in between. Someone who is evil just ‘cause will likely be considered unbelievable or cartoonish. That being said, giving the villain a «tragic» backstory is just cheap attempt to gain sympathy from the audience at this point and doesn’t even really make sense.
I hate when a character is praised and highly regarded for something that was gifted to them and they did nothing to work for it. and I hate when (especially female teens) are so self centered they don't ask their friends about their lives they just talk about their own problems and that leads to a conflict between them which adds drama to the book. I also hate when a character is so self absorbed with their own problems they think its the end of the world and no one can help them, no one cares, and no one else suffers,
Agree with everything Read the Secret Circle for a series that knows how to handle a love triangle. They don't get petty, they don't get childish (unlike in the TV adaptation >.>). I honestly thought they could have gone the polyamorous direction with it (and kind of hoped for it) but it still leaves one satisfied Not to mention it also has a great depiction of magick
I actually smiled a lot when you were talking about the «strong female character». I’m writing a story right now with a female character who is glib, sarcastic, physically strong, takes risks etc. Sounds like a «strong» female character right? Well, it turns out that a lot of these traits are taken straight from a list of psychopathic traits.
I hate the love triangles thing too! It's always like there will be 2 guys and they will BOTH happen to like the SAME girl who is always (by the way) the HERO of the book
Omg your number two made me think of Sansa Stark from Game of Thrones, who is not a stereotypical strong female character. Arya Stark seems to be so much more well liked because she’s a tomboy and becomes a cool Assassin. It’s like people are annoyed at Sansa for liking girly things and don’t see the strong person within.
"I hate love triangle" YES!!! Another LT hater! Thank you! I have always find LT and all its siblings unnecessary to the plot, ESPECIALLY when the romance is only a subplot in another genre. The characters often have enough in their minds and it ads unnecessary (and often immature) drama, just for the sake of drama. But all your other points were absolutely spot on too. Thank you for this!
In addition is the abusive relationship trope, where the protagonist justifies her lovers abuse ( stalking, violent outbursts for no apparent reason to name a few) as their undying love, and we see the friends and family trying to put some sense into their minds time and again and the protagonist turns bitterly on them. All this for a guy she met no more than 5 days ago WTF?!
What is your opinion on the love triangle in the infernal devices? I hate love triangle just as much as the next reader and i suffered from Herongraystairs but i also really, really loved it and it really affected me. I feel that it’s not like most love triangles, although it’s one of the most crucial parts of the trilogy.
![กิโลเมตรที่ 0 เดินทางรอบโลกไม่ใช้เครื่องบิน [Around The World Ep. 1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/toJG9oofLFY/mqdefault.jpg)
"Being gay is not your personality, its your sexuality." Really well said
when there is a bad boy who is really rich and then there is a plain jane girl who really has nothing special about her and then he falls in love with her and changes for her and later on we find out he was a bad boy only because he has family issues .
+Elif Su aah, that one is truly hard to die
Oh yes that troph is just so annoying!
Elif Su basically every popular wattpad story
that what we call Korean drama (in the past) ;)
Literally the entire plot to fifty shades of grey
100% agree with this! Additional least favourite tropes: the 'I'm not like other girls' teenager (ugh, stop), who is apparently so different and misunderstood and never fits in anywhere, yet they are completely relatable and even borderline cool? Yeah, that.
Alex's riding videos YES
I'm only ok with this, if it's done right
YES, YOUR PHYSICAL STRENGTH VS. CHARACTER STRENGTH POINT. THANK YOU. Another small trope that annoys me is when the author decides that "strong female character" = snarky attitude. I don't hate female characters who do have an attitude, I just hate when its used solely as a plot device to reinforce how badass a character is, and not because it's part of that character's personality. I mean, can only smart-mouthed girls be considered strong?
Totally agree, and they often come off as bitches.
Ugh, YES! I see this so often, and it annoys me to no end. A great example is Max from Maximum Ride. She had to be physically strong to be a "strong female character", and they felt the need to give her a snarky, smart-ass attitude to go with it. But Max herself was actually incredibly plain, and she had no character development. Oh, and she follows the "plain Jane" trope as well. James Patterson does not write females well. Sorry for the rant! I just hate the female representation in his books.
AMEN. You can be polite and still be strong.
did you mean celeana
Yes! Yes yes yes YES! The trope about the gay characters in most stories is so true and I strongly agree!
missnataliepaige It's so infuriating isn't it?? I can't stand it! I'm so glad you agree! :)
I think this applies to the "Token Minority" trope in general. For me it's a sign of poor writing or general laziness for a writer to add a minority character so they can say that their book is "diverse". It feels like they are just filling up a checklist. I cannot abide by that, tbh.
Perennial Rhinitis but if they don't, then they get trash for not including diverse characters, even though their sexuality has 0 relevance in the story. Maybe they are trying to please the readers.
criss694 The point is, they should do more research. It should not feel "tacked-on" even if they are writing supporting characters.
"man do I hate love triangles" there we go liked and subscribed
=D
All love triangles; BESIDES WILL TESSA AND JEM
Eleanor and Park needs to have A SEQUEL yesss that is the only valid love triangle
My most hated tropes:
1. Special Snowflake Syndrome
Aka when a character has all these powers that they shouldn't have at their age for no reason.
2. When guys are portrayed as a pansy to make the main female character look better.
3. I agree with love triangles.
4. And the insta love thing.
5. And the plain jane thing.
It's weird tho, because in books woman are praised for being virgins, yet I manage to be made fun of for being a virgin. Confused as hell
Oh, and I hate the trope, love solves all issues. For an example, a guy or girl falls in love while being depressed, having anxiety, etc. and somehow being in love managed to wipe away all issues. It's irritating and unrealistic. Or the, this person is my cause of happiness, trope. It's like these types of books make characters rely upon others to cure theirr issues and it's the worst form of writing ever.
*their
It's because you need better friends :P making fun of you for being sexually choosy is ridiculous
I dislike insta-love, insta-love triangles and plain Janes.
Fallen by Lauren Kate had all of that.
Chantelly Heart Yes! So true! I tried to read that book years ago and I just couldn't get through it
A Clockwork Reader I forced myself to read it. Nothing happens at all. What also annoyed me was how he was mean to her at first but that made her want him more. Another trope which I don't like. Guy is mean to girl for no reasons, she's in love.
Chantelly Heart Ohhh yes definitely. I actually filmed a review on as series recently where that was one of my biggest issues. I'm just nervous about posting it because I know it's a well loved series loll
A Clockwork Reader Is it Divergent?
Chantelly Heart No actually it's not (because I never finished that series oops) but that's a good example of that trope! It's actually the Shatter Me series.......I had a lot of issues with it.
Clumsiness is one of my least favourite tropes. Oh, look at how clumsy and relatable I am! Disney movies, I'm looking at you (even though I am a hardcore Disney fan.)
Of course Hannah, I LOVED shouting you out, I think your channel is great!!
“...not a kickass assassin or warrior...”
Gotta love that reference to Celaena/Alien, who is literally the most disappointing female protagonist ever (next to Fayrug from acotar)
FEYRUG HAHAH
I spent this entire video innerly yelling "YES! THIS!" I agreed with every single thing you mentioned.
Joana lisbongirlreads Yayyy I'm so happy!!!
Strong female character who is not technically physically strong: Sailor Moon/Usagi. She cries, she wines, she can't throw a punch (that's what Jupiter is for), and while she does fight supernatural creatures, her strength comes from her big heart full of love for her friends and the planet she is protecting rather than from any kind of training or muscles. For a series geared toward children, she has a lot of depth of character. She's not particularly talented in anything and is a failure at school, but she makes connections with people, sees the good in everyone, and never gives up. She is such an inspiration!
QueenCloveroftheice "in the name of the moon I shall inspire you"
I know this is over a year old, but I sooooo agree. I can't stand Usagi.
Usagi is shit. She is an enjoyable and iconic character but she is one of the shallow, untalented heroine who gets the hot guy that is prominent in shojou mangs. 90s shojou is the worst era for shojou. It's a stupid representation for teenage girls.
Plain Janes and physical strength - YES. You put exactly how I feel into words.
Cress from the Lunar Chronicles is probably the only character I've read who isn't physically strong...or emotionally strong at all and she's probably one of my favourite characters ever xD...
Red_Queen_of_Shadow-Hunters And_Crows Yes! She is a cinnamon roll but is strong in the sense that she risked her own life to help her friends escape.
That actually got me really intrigued in the book, thanks lol!
I get what your saying about the virgin Mary thing but I also feel that sometimes in books,movie and tv they show girls who are virgins like girls who are stupid or insecure or they just plain boring and pretty ugly. and then this guy the perfect guy teach her what real love is and then they have sex and all of her self esteem issue are over. its ridiculous to put that much pressure on teenage girls.
+Books and Songs Yes I completely agree, there are definitely two sides to that. And again, I agree, it's absurd the amount of pressure we, as a society, put on girls and women, especially when it comes to their sexuality and how they approach sex. It's this terrible double standard that just seems to show up again and again in literature/TV/movies/the media.
Omg I had to stop your video when you talked about virgin girls in books to write this comment because I completely agree! I hate it so much! I read a lot of Wattpad romances and many of the romances are like that! And it's so sexist because the girl who can rage anywhere between 18 to late twenties is still a virgin and the guy will be a total player who sleeps around with multiple women every night! So what it's okay for the guy to sleep around but if the girl isn't a virgin and only been with a couple of people it's bad! Like seriously why do people still have this idea that a guy can be promiscuous but a girl has to keep her virginity intact until she finds "THE ONE"!?
I just subscribed! 😀 Great Video!
Maybe the teenage girls that write on watt pad are all virgins, and write what they know? I can't imagine respecting a guy that sleeps around a ton.
Oh my God you are so right about the plain Janes! I hate the fact that these girls only find themselves pretty and strong and talented when a male character points it out! I mean, they should be able to look in the mirror and say to themselves "I'm worth so much more than I give myself credit for, and I don't need a guy to tell me that!"
+taylor reeves Yes! Exactly! That's a perfect way to put it! I get so upset whenever I see that trope, especially in YA because their target audience is young girls and it conveys such a harmful message.
I totally agree with you on the token gay thing! It really often feels like the character was just randomly shoehorned in to meet some imaginary diversity quota. And I especially hate how it's always a separate character developed to be The Gay One instead of just having a character (or, God forbid, the MAIN character) just be gay as one ASPECT of their already developed and important role and personality.
I think the "physical strength = strong" trope is really caused by those authors' internalisation of patriarchal values and the masculine idea of being strong. It's like, because strong men have to be physically strong, hence strong women have to be "masculine" women who are also physically strong. The problem is that both assumptions are false. Strong men don't have to be good at fighting or slaying dragons either.
Jane Eyre (the character) is a good example of a strong female character, particularly for that time period, although I think she's where 'plain Jane' came from...
I know this video is a year old but I just discovered your channel and I had to say this hahaha.
I hate the Plain Jane trope too, but I think in Juliette's case (from the Shatter Me series) is not wrong or weird that she feels that way because her whole life she basically has been told that she was a monster and even her parents decided to put her in some sort of prison for years. I think in her case is understandable that she feels that she's not pretty, that she's not worth it.
But overall, I almost agree on everything you said. I had to stop myself from clapping
1. I subbed
2. You make a lot of very valid points that I'm already taking into account.
3. You have very pretty eyes :)
Agree on the pretty eyes especially :P
I completely agree with you on every single trope. I think authors need to take into consideration all of our ranting on this topic and learn from it. It will be a win-win situation - no annoying tropes for us, more fans for them :)
Zhana Trifonova Yes! That would be perfect! :)
I absolutely hate the Plain-Jane as well. She calls herself ugly but she’s actually pretty, nothing is interesting about her and might be a depressing or hateful person (Bella Swan, Feyre Archerson) but somehow everyone is in love with her. She can also do no wrong. She never has character growth either. And always needs a man.
You explained my thoughts on the Plain Jane very accurately. I couldn't have said half as good. Preach it!
Great video! Agreed on all points. A trope that I can't stand, which sort of ties in with your point about love triangles, is when a character is introduced purely as a plot device and they don't really add anything to the story. Sometimes I see it happen with love triangles where one party is merely there as a way for the the main character to realise they should be with the other party (if that makes sense). It just feels like a waste of space haha.
The plain jane trope literally wants to make me pull my hair out and this not the problem that exists not only in novels but a lot of dramas...so annoying..
Can I get an amen?!?!
Girl you are on fire with this trope! I loved your explanation for every trope. :)
what I want to see are female characters that are sweet, nice, and kindhearted. they're sadly very rare in fiction since femininity is associated with weakness. a girl can have other assets: intellect, stamina, she can be a healer, offer emotional support... and the characters who are feminine are either the stereotypical mean girl or shallow and dumb. I can understand a strong female character, but as someone on the more feminine side, we girly-girls deserve better representation. :(
this is why I've grown to love sansa stark from GoT. she's got one of the best character arcs, manages to survive, and has incredible stamina. she starts out as an unlikable character but she has grown and developed so much.
Hell one gay character that was done right was Alec from the mortal instruments. The fact that we was gay was somewhat hidden until it was mentioned by clary at some point and it never took over Alec's personality.
Yes to everything you said. Also, the trope that being kind is seen as being "weak". God I hate that. As if having a shitty attitude would make a character stronger lmfao.
I love your videos, because always when you talk about annoying tropes, I look into my own novel and search for possible ways I could have used or over-used them. And I'm always very happy when I see that I have bypassed a common trope that could have been problematic :)
I think the biggest issue with the physical strength=strong female character is that the author often thinks that physical strength is all they need, or substitutes physical strength for making a better character. How often do you read about female boxers, trying to make it big, but facing lots of set-backs for being poor or abused or X or Y? Or any female sports story?
There are so many things that physically strong women can do, and yet still be complex, but it seems like once the author has established that the character is "strong" they follow all the same cliches. She's strong, but she is bested and needs the Love Interest to rescue her. She's strong, but for some reason she's still not taken seriously despite her accomplishments and qualifications. She's strong, but magically strong, rarely seen working out, doesn't really care about her strength or take pride it in, and instead thinks she's unremarkable. She's strong, but somehow still needs help to do something that realistically, she should attempt by herself OR all events are orchestrated so that even though she's "strong" she never gets to demonstrate and succeed on something based on her strength. So she's physically strong but never physically stronger/better than a man or if she's better than some men, never her love interest or anyone important. So basically the strength is just surface dressing but is never allowed to affect the substance of the plot that would actually make her a well round "strong female character" because i's portrayal is shallow or the author hasn't thought it through.
Anyway, I really agree with a lot of the tropes you hate, but this one especially aggravates me because it has so much potential and yet people fundamentally miss the point of having good female characters BUT ALSO they miss the point of having kickass female characters that actually have their physical strength realistically shown in a positive light, that's for her own good/agency and not for the male gaze that sexualizes "strength" (I'm looking at the Marvel movies here)
"personally I love ranting about things I hate" me tooooooo
You should make an updated Tropes I Hate video!!
You are my new favourite booktuber! Yess to pretty much everything yess. I'm trying to be a YA writer so this was definitely helpful for me, especially with my female protagonist and an accidental love triangle that's popped up (still debating on keeping it or not) so thank you!
Iqra Arshad Don't keep It for God's sake
I don't want a plain jane, I want a plane Jane. She is a professional solo pilot and she brings home cat themed memorabilia from her travels for her girlfriend, a cat lady by every standard.
I think a female character can be an assassin or whatever and still be realistically weak. For example she may struggle in hand to hand combat but mental skills like coordination, situational awareness, her smarts basically make her a leathal, stealthy, effective combatant. I used to play a lot of RPG games and often you are building your character in certain ways at the expense of other strengths and I think this approach to writing strong female characters can provide more satisfying results without relegating female characters to bystanders.
Oh my gosh I completely agree with you! The Plain Jane trope would totally be at the top of my list if I made one for all of the reasons that you described...thank you for putting it into words. If I ever make a video in which i mention the trope I will direct viewers to this video
about the "virgin Mary" I was aware of the thrope so I played with it a little and in one scene my character (a sweet bisexual guy that was, sadly used in his childhood by a much older woman) is actually confessing to the girl he likes that he would do anything to go back in time and stop himself from giving his first time to that older woman because he wanted to give his first time to either the girl Iy-La (whom he is talking to) or his best friend (named Jai-den that protected and cared for him since he was thrown by this evil older woman after she finished up with him) he wish he could turn back time just to give one of them his first time because he wanted it to be one of them.
I wrote the scene with tears.
_like I know you hate love triangles, but he's sweet and has a lot of reasons to love both her and him (besides it's kind of a tragedy so... it isn't supposed to be a dramatic love triangle just a really sad one because all of the characters are so sweet and they deserve to be happy but they can never all be happy. besides, it's a real love triangle, the girl doesn't play with both she is vary much in loved with Jai-den, and the bisexual guy Philip first hated her because she was a rival for Jai love but in te end she was the one who pushed him to Jai den giving up on him herself so they would be happy and poor phillip ended up loving her because of it. so it's a tragic love triangle, it's not ment to be dramatic it ment to make you cry and if I made you cry, then I fulfilled the purpose)_
that sounds really interesting and emotional
I totally used to hate insta love and then it sort of happened yo me, like, for real, absolutely unrealistic and unlikely but it actually did happen, so yeah, now I don't feel qualified to judge that 😅
I absolutely loved this video! You are so animated and interesting to listen to when you are passionate about something. Great job!
OMG, thank you for talking about physical strength versus strength of character. So many "strong" female protagonists get the spotlight because they are physically strong but have no personality outside of her strength.
I completely agree with all of these but especially the second one! Like people see female characters who cry as weak but it's an emotion and doesn't mean they aren't strong.
I feel like insta-love could be pretty fun and interesting if it was played like, where one of the characters is a serial insta-lover (at varying levels of self-awareness of their habit), and where even though the connection is instantaneous the characters still have to put in work to make the relationship rewarding. As someone with Emotional Problems TM that tend to manifest as abnormal attachment patterns, a romance handled that way would be really interesting and relatable.
Everything you said was so on point you are my favorite person
❤️❤️❤️❤️ You're my favorite person too
You look so pretty! Also I totally agree with your least favorite trope! When you said that a female character doesn't seem to notice her worth until a male character points it out to her I was like "yes! Thank you!"
80% of Wattpad stories
Hi! My name is Arianna but people call me Aria! I have alabaster skin, glowing blue orbs and wavy brown hair. God I’m ugly. My parents died when I was little so now I live with my abusive aunt. I have exactly 2 friends. Sam, my gay friend. Did I mention he’s gay? He has so much fashion sense. And then my smart nerdy friend. She always cheers me on from the sidelines and has no other life outside of helping me. Then Chloe the mean girl came up to me, she hates me for no reason and wears so much makeup. I don’t wear makeup because I’m 100% natural. Gosh Chloe is so fake. The bad boy of the school, Axel bumped into me. I yelled at him angrily while also blushing. He was at least 6 feet tall and was built like a god. He calls me princess just to annoy me. He’s also my mate. He’s a werewolf and I’m a human oh no!
My most hated trope is the romanticizing abuse trope. Like abuse is never ok, the plot in the story and attack on the main character should not be in the relationship.
YES. I SO AGREE TO THIS. and I want to thank you because I was thinking about putting a gay person in my story, and I realized that yeah I wasn't really giving them any character except gay and that's not right. THANK YOU SO MUCH.
I also wanted to say, while I completely agree with the whole "white, straight, thin and conventionally attractive" thing. IT'S ANNOYING AS HECK. But I also can sort of see how a boyfriend COULD reach a girl who was insecure about herself on a level that not many could.
The love triangle tho. UUUUUGHHHH NOOOOO STAAAHP WHYYYYYY.
Ohhh my gosh I found this video so late in the game but dude you make these points so passionately and eloquently like wow goals as heck!! Someone should write you as a strong female character ahah
Seraphina is a good book about battling the physical/character trope. In the book, seraphina doesn't do a lot of physical fighting. She's the main character and very important. The situation she's in could not be solved without her. It's a great book!
omg. I tend to agree with you so much Hannah. I believe we like the same things and dislike similar tropes. Love watching your videos. Please do make ranting videos like these. I love listening to my opinions through someone who can voice them better in a language am not so good at expressing.
I really wish I could have the clap emoji on desktop because I need to give this a freaking standing ovation
Thanks you for this. You're absolute correct and author needs to listen to these types of discussions. I 100% agree with the Plain Jane and Token Gay Friend Trope, it needs to stop.
I usually hate love triangles but I love the one in Infernal Devices. Jem, Tessa and Will are just such likeable characters
I love all your points! I can totally relate to everything you've said.
I agree with you on the gay best friend thing. Being gay is a big part of your personality, but it isn’t the only part. Many of my friends are really interesting people, and being straight or gay has nothing to do with it.
Amen to the physical strength thing
Agree with all of this! I’d recommend the Lunar Chronicles series by Marissa Meyer- it features many female characters who are each very different and strong in their own way💜
A Clockwork Reader: I hate love triangles
Terrible Writing Advice: REEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
YES! All of these, Yes!! Thank you for speaking your mind. Your passion and ranting is appreciated :)
The only time that I like Love Triangles is if it's there for comedy.
Your brows are goals tbh (I did like the review as well)
I don't mind the Plain Jane trope so much as long as it makes sense for the character. The example that immediately comes to mind is Ayla from the Earth's Children series (not young adult, and a little old, I know). She's beautiful, shapely, and blonde, but believes that she's ugly. She refers to herself as undesirable many times. But it's because she was raised by the Clan, a group of Neanderthals, and as a Cro-Magnon she is considered entirely too tall, thin, etc. to be anything but gross. I know there are other, similar examples out there.
wow i love your videos! i just started watching "booktubers" and i really love your opinions!
I completely agreed with every single thing you said. Thank you!
Yes, I relate to this so much. Great answers.
I am in love with your mind.
I totally agree with everything you said
Thanks so much , you just helped me in character building, I want to do a female with a not so perfect look that still feels attractive, even tho she doesn't fit into the skinny , perfect looking mode
Please make another one of this!
‘Marathons four Seasons of Gilmore girls at once’ mood
First of all: "Yes! YES! YEEES!"
And then: While you listed all these reasons, i was like: What an awesome book Crooked Kingdom is! It has (almost) none of these tropes! So happy right now to love the book...
This is the best video of this tag that I've watched!!
I loved your point of view, especially the No.1 😃
LOVED you pointing out all sexist tropes! YEY Got a feminist subscriber! hahaha :D
Nice job. It makes it really good points.
You should do a "Trops I Hate" Series!!! I would love it...
My least favorite troupé is the tragic evil antagonist... I hate when a book tries to give a person a reason for being evil
I want my evil character to just be evil for the sake of it and not because of some daddy issues
I’d say that a character should ve evil for a reason, whether that’s a mental condition or their beliefs or anything in between. Someone who is evil just ‘cause will likely be considered unbelievable or cartoonish. That being said, giving the villain a «tragic» backstory is just cheap attempt to gain sympathy from the audience at this point and doesn’t even really make sense.
I hate love triangles too! They're just so unnecessary and feel so painfully forced.
I hate when a character is praised and highly regarded for something that was gifted to them and they did nothing to work for it. and I hate when (especially female teens) are so self centered they don't ask their friends about their lives they just talk about their own problems and that leads to a conflict between them which adds drama to the book. I also hate when a character is so self absorbed with their own problems they think its the end of the world and no one can help them, no one cares, and no one else suffers,
I agree with every single thing you said in this video! Every. Single. Thing.
ShannonJ995 I'm so glad!!! I was worried when I first posted this video that no one would agree with me
THIS VIDEO IS SOOOO GOOD
Agree with everything
Read the Secret Circle for a series that knows how to handle a love triangle. They don't get petty, they don't get childish (unlike in the TV adaptation >.>). I honestly thought they could have gone the polyamorous direction with it (and kind of hoped for it) but it still leaves one satisfied
Not to mention it also has a great depiction of magick
I actually smiled a lot when you were talking about the «strong female character». I’m writing a story right now with a female character who is glib, sarcastic, physically strong, takes risks etc. Sounds like a «strong» female character right? Well, it turns out that a lot of these traits are taken straight from a list of psychopathic traits.
Katara from A:TLA is your perfect strong female character.
I hate the love triangles thing too! It's always like there will be 2 guys and they will BOTH happen to like the SAME girl who is always (by the way) the HERO of the book
To be honest I hate most tropes lol
oh my gosh thank you this video was brilliant
Omg your number two made me think of Sansa Stark from Game of Thrones, who is not a stereotypical strong female character. Arya Stark seems to be so much more well liked because she’s a tomboy and becomes a cool Assassin. It’s like people are annoyed at Sansa for liking girly things and don’t see the strong person within.
"I hate love triangle" YES!!! Another LT hater! Thank you!
I have always find LT and all its siblings unnecessary to the plot, ESPECIALLY when the romance is only a subplot in another genre. The characters often have enough in their minds and it ads unnecessary (and often immature) drama, just for the sake of drama.
But all your other points were absolutely spot on too. Thank you for this!
In addition is the abusive relationship trope, where the protagonist justifies her lovers abuse ( stalking, violent outbursts for no apparent reason to name a few) as their undying love, and we see the friends and family trying to put some sense into their minds time and again and the protagonist turns bitterly on them. All this for a guy she met no more than 5 days ago WTF?!
My dislike of the Plain Jane trope pushed me to start building my self-esteem and stop thinking those things about myself
I gonna say this video and this book is so amazing.
I agree with everything! Oh, why can't we have a character who know they are pretty and don't need a guy to tell them.
What is your opinion on the love triangle in the infernal devices? I hate love triangle just as much as the next reader and i suffered from Herongraystairs but i also really, really loved it and it really affected me. I feel that it’s not like most love triangles, although it’s one of the most crucial parts of the trilogy.
I agree in everything you just said!!
Me, watching the video: PREACH! YES FREAKING PREACH!!! A LITTLE LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK