You might try a blind dado (grove) to hide the spline. Make the fence 1/4” in front and behind the dado blade. Lower the 2x10 down on the front line and stop when you reach the back line. Make the spline fit and glue. Finished hive will look better.
Great tips! I’ve built 3 of the insulated version partly because of some of the issues I saw with the dimensional lumber style. I’ll give it a try now on my next one because of your tips. Thanks!
I just built one of these this past week. Could not find 14 foot 2x10. I bought 2@ 8 foot and expanded mine to 19 frames. I added the 1 9/16 per 5 frames and had room for a 3x8 divider board. Now watching this again to do a sloped metal roof. I only used a table saw for all my cutting except for the bee opening
I am in the process of building one of the 14 frames boxes and am concerned it may not be enough room. How did you calculate the additional inches per frame? Thankyou!
Prefect timing! I was just sitting here drinking my coffee preparing my mind to try and tackle this task this morning. I was struggling with my first Layens hive build the other day and highly disappointed in my apparently low quality woodworking skills. Lol Thank you for the tips.
I laugh when I hear Dr. Leo say the hive can be built in about 3 hours. Maybe HE can build one in 3 hours. I certainly can't. I have built 2 of the 14-frame versions, and the first was a comedy of errors. It finally came together, but it wasn't easy to find fixes for my blunders. Using strips of wood in my grooves was one of the fixes that saved my first box. For the second box I used 3/8" dowel pins and they actually worked well. I still think Gene's use of plywood strips looks like the fastest, strongest way to build.
If you don't have these coner clamps, you can also make a mal take a big enough board measure the sides of the box on the board . 8 strips of wood 4 long and 4 short ones but .... not the same length as the box keep the corners open and staple 2 strips of wood parallel from each other with a nice and snuk for the thickness of the board do that on all 4 sides and presto
I use 2x10 and 2x12 for my 15 frame Lazutin hives. I use a 2 by floor inside the hive. That gives me a base to screw into. I use 2x12 for sides and 2x10 for ends to add support at first. Then 2x10 for side and 2x12 for end. I use insulation around hives with unwelcome boards for bear.
The harbor freight versions of these clamps are terrible...just buy the Bessey clamps. If you have a nice flat workbench you can clamp the two boards down to the bench. This helps hold them when you are gluing and screwing the boards...the boards wont move when the screw is started. I will certainly try the cookie idea! Thank you!
Home Depot currently has the best price that I have found for the Bessey WS-3 clamps. I'm positive the price used to be higher, and now they are just under $21. Nothing on Amazon is close to that price. I've had 2 Bessey WS-3 clamps for a long time, and just yesterday bought 2 more to help me build my Layens boxes. It's so much easier with 4. If anyone is wondering about getting some, now is the time.
I'm pretty sure using a strip of wood in the grooves is called a spline joint. I saw the joint used in one of your earlier videos and was inspired to use it when I couldn't get the tongue and groove to fit tightly enough. I also like how the spline joint doesn't lose half an inch of height the way the tongue and groove does. I didn't have a piece of plywood that would fit the width of my router bit, so I ripped my strips from solid wood on my table saw. I cut the grooves on my router table first. Then I dialed in the width of the strips with my table saw. The whole box went together nice and tight. I'm sure the plywood strips make for a stronger joint because they have grain in multiple directions, but I'm confident that my box is strong enough. I will try plywood on a future box if I can find a match for my router bit. Thanks for sharing your tips. Your info has been very helpful.
You can mark the front and back of the dado blade and make a blind dado and shorten your spline a couple inches. Cleaner look than cutting through the end.
I'm always trying to learn more about this passion of mine especially since I run an exclusively Layens only apiary, 10/10 on this video Enjoy Beekeeping is worth the sub.
Thank you so much for this! Especially #3 with the cookies. I noticed one of your hives in another video had the boards cut all groove instead of all tongue/groove and I was going to ask you about that. I will definitely give this a try with my next build! I am working on my first Layens hive right now. :) I hope to bait and attract a swarm to move in. I don't have any angle clamps right now, so I'll try my best without them. lol
Good ideas! I have made several Layens hives and it is really difficult to get the bows out. The last one I built I layed each piece that was cupped out in the sun with the cup facing downward. It took the sun 2 to 6 hours to straighten the cups out and as soon as each board was straight I assembled it. Obviously it took longer but everything was straight when I finished.
My motto is, shoot for perfection. If you miss your mark, you will still be close. If you shoot for mediocre and miss your mark, things could get really bad. My work is rarely, if ever perfect. But I try to set my goal high in whatever I am doing.
Great tips! Thanks. I'm not that crazy about the Layens Top bars. I like the BEE SPACE of the Langstroth top bars for top feeding in Rapid Rounds and observing each frame before separating them. I also like the depth of the Layens frame. So, there is a young Beekeeper named David Strout whom has made DOUBLE Langstroth Frames with dove tails between them to separate them to be able to harvest the honey easier. I just made a 4 ft Langstroth Long Hive using these frames and I think you would enjoy making them. I think the bees and I will like this system better.
Well, it is not required by law to follow the Layens Top bar instructions from the horizontalhive.com. Just make the top bars "pass through". That's what I do.
Gene, Knowing that rabbit joints are stronger that butt joints, would you consider lengthening the front and back by 3” and making a big rabbit to accommodate the side boards which need to be 1” longer? Makes a great joint!
Good point, and I've wondered that myself. I'm only a wood worker because of my bees, and not a "real" wood worker, so I may have to try it sometime. Thanks
If the boards are cupped, the bee space on the sides is compromised. I went to the effort of planing my boards and all the subsequent building was rendered a lot easier. It is worth getting your boards planed if you know someone with one. How many frames works best for you? Do you do solid or gauze floor? I really like your videos and find them very useful. Keep them coming. I live in France, the home of Layens, but only know of one other person who uses these hives, and they are not neighbors unfortunately. I'm learning by trial, error and a lot of time with books, videos and forums!
I sure do want to buy one of those Layeens hives from you. However I either heard from another of your vieeos or from another follower that you don't sell the hives, that they are made for your own use. If this is true would you mind dropping me a line to let me know. Just to let you know, I'm 75 a first year beekeeper, and so far am learning a lot from your videos. Thanks a million. Richard
Hi Richard, I build lots of Layens hives for people. I'm sure if you are close by to me or not, but I can ship although it's expensive. Please visit my website enjoybeekeeping.com and download my catalog with the prices and products I offer.
I was just watching a build where the made cookies. The funny thing as I watched my thoughts were what are they doing? Their cookies were round disks and the channel they cut were about half the blades with. You stopped before putting the bottom on. How do you put your bottoms on? Thank you again as always. I enjoy your passion!
I make the bottom the same as called for in the plans on Dr Leo's site, I dado out a portion to recess for a 3/4 board to fit into the wood sides. I don't really do anything different than what the plan calls for except that I build it upside down and let any offset happen at the bottom and then fix when I set the hive out and level it. Visually it looks perfect. Thanks for watching!
To cut the groove with a dado blade could you cut it just small and then flip the board and run it through a second time? This would completely center the groove in the board?
Excellent video, thanks. I have 3 Layens hives I built just this spring (newBee). I used corner clamps and built upside down, but cut traditional tongue and groove. I have used a cookie method (what I call a spline joint) in other items I have built and it is a great suggestion. Next hive I build I will use one as well. May I ask you is there an extractor you recommend for Layens frames?
I have built a few of these and things are going well, but I used "green" lumber from the local big box store and have had significant shrinkage of the boards such that I had to add a spacers to the top to raise the frames higher. Have you had this issue? What do you use? I found a place not too far away that sells kiln dried 2 x 10s. Is it worth the effort? I suppose that I could continue using green lumber and just leave extra space.
How long is the 20 frame box I've built the 14 frame box but it seem to small and I want to build the 20 frame layens hive just like the 14 frame layens hive
I agree, the 14 frame is a bit small, but the 20 frame is the sweet spot in my climate zone. If you are in the north east, you might try a 30 frame. Just close it down to smaller space in winter time.
Gene, I am a new subscriber, and have been watching your past videos, and have a question about your swarm traps. I see you use the hanging bracket on the side of the trap. What exactly on the tree do you hang the bracket on?
I use a chain and an "S" hook to hang it from the tree. Check out my mentors section on enjoybeekeeping.com and look for Jason Bruns who has an excellent video on hanging them.
Cedar is not very strong for building hives. I've done it, but you have to handle them a bit more gently than regular pine or Cyprus. Because it is so fragile in comparison to other wood, I no longer use it in most applications.
It not cupping it is call the crown of a board because it was heated side of the saw that cut it because the log had to much sap in it when it was cut That's the reason why you see them in some boards and others you can't see it all with the naked eye use a straight edge to find crown face it down or to the in side it will relax over time for the crowning achievement that it will be around for a long long time.
Not yet! Little by little I've been able to get some better wood working tools, so it's been a fun part of my beekeeping journey with the wood working end of it.
Pretty sure Norm Abram calls them "Biscuits", not cookies. But whatever. The purpose is the same. Just finished a Lazutin hive build from his book. Shes a big'un to be sure. Put in a false wall to accept Layens frames.
it is easier and more cost effective to find some one to build hives and i pay for the hive and shipping then it would to build a shop and buy the tools and machines to build my own hives, i am not any kind of wood worker i leave that to people that know how to do that ,, i am a gardener been one my whole life
I really appreciate the tips. They will all be used in my next build❤
You might try a blind dado (grove) to hide the spline. Make the fence 1/4” in front and behind the dado blade. Lower the 2x10 down on the front line and stop when you reach the back line. Make the spline fit and glue. Finished hive will look better.
I gotcha thanks for the tip :)
Love the “cookie” idea. No tool change, constant rhythm, high productivity.
spline not cookie
Great tips! I’ve built 3 of the insulated version partly because of some of the issues I saw with the dimensional lumber style. I’ll give it a try now on my next one because of your tips. Thanks!
Some excellent advice. Thank you!
Great tips! I didn't think of the biscuit route. That's what I'm going to implement.
it isn't a biscuit joint it's a spline joint
I also used this tongue and groved with the wafer board and worked awesome. I used a 2x4 for my wafer
Awesome idea on the t&g!
I just built one of these this past week. Could not find 14 foot 2x10. I bought 2@ 8 foot and expanded mine to 19 frames. I added the 1 9/16 per 5 frames and had room for a 3x8 divider board. Now watching this again to do a sloped metal roof.
I only used a table saw for all my cutting except for the bee opening
I am in the process of building one of the 14 frames boxes and am concerned it may not be enough room. How did you calculate the additional inches per frame? Thankyou!
Prefect timing! I was just sitting here drinking my coffee preparing my mind to try and tackle this task this morning. I was struggling with my first Layens hive build the other day and highly disappointed in my apparently low quality woodworking skills. Lol
Thank you for the tips.
I laugh when I hear Dr. Leo say the hive can be built in about 3 hours. Maybe HE can build one in 3 hours. I certainly can't. I have built 2 of the 14-frame versions, and the first was a comedy of errors. It finally came together, but it wasn't easy to find fixes for my blunders. Using strips of wood in my grooves was one of the fixes that saved my first box. For the second box I used 3/8" dowel pins and they actually worked well. I still think Gene's use of plywood strips looks like the fastest, strongest way to build.
If you don't have these coner clamps, you can also make a mal take a big enough board measure the sides of the box on the board . 8 strips of wood 4 long and 4 short ones but .... not the same length as the box keep the corners open and staple 2 strips of wood parallel from each other with a nice and snuk for the thickness of the board do that on all 4 sides and presto
I use 2x10 and 2x12 for my 15 frame Lazutin hives. I use a 2 by floor inside the hive. That gives me a base to screw into. I use 2x12 for sides and 2x10 for ends to add support at first. Then 2x10 for side and 2x12 for end. I use insulation around hives with unwelcome boards for bear.
The harbor freight versions of these clamps are terrible...just buy the Bessey clamps. If you have a nice flat workbench you can clamp the two boards down to the bench. This helps hold them when you are gluing and screwing the boards...the boards wont move when the screw is started. I will certainly try the cookie idea! Thank you!
Thanks for the warning about the harbor freight clamps. I was about to go there and see what they had to offer.
Home Depot currently has the best price that I have found for the Bessey WS-3 clamps. I'm positive the price used to be higher, and now they are just under $21. Nothing on Amazon is close to that price. I've had 2 Bessey WS-3 clamps for a long time, and just yesterday bought 2 more to help me build my Layens boxes. It's so much easier with 4. If anyone is wondering about getting some, now is the time.
I'm pretty sure using a strip of wood in the grooves is called a spline joint. I saw the joint used in one of your earlier videos and was inspired to use it when I couldn't get the tongue and groove to fit tightly enough. I also like how the spline joint doesn't lose half an inch of height the way the tongue and groove does. I didn't have a piece of plywood that would fit the width of my router bit, so I ripped my strips from solid wood on my table saw. I cut the grooves on my router table first. Then I dialed in the width of the strips with my table saw. The whole box went together nice and tight. I'm sure the plywood strips make for a stronger joint because they have grain in multiple directions, but I'm confident that my box is strong enough. I will try plywood on a future box if I can find a match for my router bit. Thanks for sharing your tips. Your info has been very helpful.
I knew there had to be a proper name for it - thank you! For me this particular method seemed much easier and forgiving. Thanks for watching!
You can mark the front and back of the dado blade and make a blind dado and shorten your spline a couple inches. Cleaner look than cutting through the end.
I'm always trying to learn more about this passion of mine especially since I run an exclusively Layens only apiary, 10/10 on this video Enjoy Beekeeping is worth the sub.
Thank you!
"First-Class" tutorial!
Thank you so much for this! Especially #3 with the cookies. I noticed one of your hives in another video had the boards cut all groove instead of all tongue/groove and I was going to ask you about that. I will definitely give this a try with my next build! I am working on my first Layens hive right now. :) I hope to bait and attract a swarm to move in.
I don't have any angle clamps right now, so I'll try my best without them. lol
I've been told this is called a "Spline" by a woodworker. I hope it helps
Thank you. This helps me a lot!
Glad to hear it!
Good ideas! I have made several Layens hives and it is really difficult to get the bows out. The last one I built I layed each piece that was cupped out in the sun with the cup facing downward. It took the sun 2 to 6 hours to straighten the cups out and as soon as each board was straight I assembled it. Obviously it took longer but everything was straight when I finished.
Awesome - I'm glad you mentioned that. I'll keep that in mind for next time I make a few more.
Lumber with the pith (center ring) will cup and twist more, and larger growth rings will also add to cupping.
Put them on your garage floor, pour water on them, and then place your weights on them.; they'll be flat by morning.
Thank you.
My motto is, shoot for perfection. If you miss your mark, you will still be close. If you shoot for mediocre and miss your mark, things could get really bad. My work is rarely, if ever perfect. But I try to set my goal high in whatever I am doing.
I think that's a good strategy to live and work by. All the best!
Thank you
l am also being hive builder. Choosing the the right tools and methods is a lot help, Thanks for your time in these matters
Great tips! Thanks. I'm not that crazy about the Layens Top bars. I like the BEE SPACE of the Langstroth top bars for top feeding in Rapid Rounds and observing each frame before separating them. I also like the depth of the Layens frame. So, there is a young Beekeeper named David Strout whom has made DOUBLE Langstroth Frames with dove tails between them to separate them to be able to harvest the honey easier. I just made a 4 ft Langstroth Long Hive using these frames and I think you would enjoy making them. I think the bees and I will like this system better.
Well, it is not required by law to follow the Layens Top bar instructions from the horizontalhive.com.
Just make the top bars "pass through".
That's what I do.
You can have Hoffman top bars on the Layens if this is how you prefer to work.
@@kglen Thanks for the tip! Hoffman looks easier to make. A lot less steps.
Great info !
Gene,
Knowing that rabbit joints are stronger that butt joints, would you consider lengthening the front and back by 3” and making a big rabbit to accommodate the side boards which need to be 1” longer? Makes a great joint!
Good point, and I've wondered that myself. I'm only a wood worker because of my bees, and not a "real" wood worker, so I may have to try it sometime. Thanks
How to build a beehive if you’re not Norm Abram. Thanks for the tips.
Anyone find any cheats on the bottom? Groove and groove there too? And the rabbit joints are sort of hard for new people too.
If the boards are cupped, the bee space on the sides is compromised. I went to the effort of planing my boards and all the subsequent building was rendered a lot easier. It is worth getting your boards planed if you know someone with one.
How many frames works best for you?
Do you do solid or gauze floor?
I really like your videos and find them very useful. Keep them coming.
I live in France, the home of Layens, but only know of one other person who uses these hives, and they are not neighbors unfortunately. I'm learning by trial, error and a lot of time with books, videos and forums!
20 frames seems to be the sweet spot for me in my area.
I sure do want to buy one of those Layeens hives from you. However I either heard from another of your vieeos or from another follower that you don't sell the hives, that they are made for your own use. If this is true would you mind dropping me a line to let me know. Just to let you know, I'm 75 a first year beekeeper, and so far am learning a lot from your videos. Thanks a million. Richard
Hi Richard, I build lots of Layens hives for people. I'm sure if you are close by to me or not, but I can ship although it's expensive. Please visit my website enjoybeekeeping.com and download my catalog with the prices and products I offer.
Do you have a how to build the not insulated layens hive?
I was just watching a build where the made cookies. The funny thing as I watched my thoughts were what are they doing? Their cookies were round disks and the channel they cut were about half the blades with. You stopped before putting the bottom on. How do you put your bottoms on? Thank you again as always. I enjoy your passion!
I make the bottom the same as called for in the plans on Dr Leo's site, I dado out a portion to recess for a 3/4 board to fit into the wood sides. I don't really do anything different than what the plan calls for except that I build it upside down and let any offset happen at the bottom and then fix when I set the hive out and level it. Visually it looks perfect. Thanks for watching!
To cut the groove with a dado blade could you cut it just small and then flip the board and run it through a second time? This would completely center the groove in the board?
For some reason this is where I seem to be "off" slightly - like 1/64 and it makes me crazy, so I just do the spline cuts and they work better for me
Excellent video, thanks. I have 3 Layens hives I built just this spring (newBee). I used corner clamps and built upside down, but cut traditional tongue and groove. I have used a cookie method (what I call a spline joint) in other items I have built and it is a great suggestion. Next hive I build I will use one as well.
May I ask you is there an extractor you recommend for Layens frames?
Dr Leo sells an extractor that works for the Layens frames and Langstroth frames.
Hello, what happens if you just glue the sides without using any type of groove?
I have built a few of these and things are going well, but I used "green" lumber from the local big box store and have had significant shrinkage of the boards such that I had to add a spacers to the top to raise the frames higher. Have you had this issue? What do you use? I found a place not too far away that sells kiln dried 2 x 10s. Is it worth the effort? I suppose that I could continue using green lumber and just leave extra space.
I haven't had any major shrinkage, but I also leave more space at the bottom than what the plans call for too.
Can you give us the dimensions of your 2×10 when using the splines, thanks
How long is the 20 frame box I've built the 14 frame box but it seem to small and I want to build the 20 frame layens hive just like the 14 frame layens hive
I agree, the 14 frame is a bit small, but the 20 frame is the sweet spot in my climate zone. If you are in the north east, you might try a 30 frame. Just close it down to smaller space in winter time.
@@enjoybeekeeping5612 thanks for the advice I live in Kentucky and I think to 20 frame layens hive will be good
Gene, I am a new subscriber, and have been watching your past videos, and have a question about your swarm traps. I see you use the hanging bracket on the side of the trap. What exactly on the tree do you hang the bracket on?
I use a chain and an "S" hook to hang it from the tree. Check out my mentors section on enjoybeekeeping.com and look for Jason Bruns who has an excellent video on hanging them.
Ok. Thanks!
Would cedar work for building hives?
Cedar is not very strong for building hives. I've done it, but you have to handle them a bit more gently than regular pine or Cyprus. Because it is so fragile in comparison to other wood, I no longer use it in most applications.
It not cupping it is call the crown of a board because it was heated side of the saw that cut it because the log had to much sap in it when it was cut
That's the reason why you see them in some boards and others you can't see it all with the naked eye use a straight edge to find crown face it down or to the in side it will relax over time for the crowning achievement that it will be around for a long long time.
Awesome help.... Tried pipe clamps?
Not yet! Little by little I've been able to get some better wood working tools, so it's been a fun part of my beekeeping journey with the wood working end of it.
Do you have any plans
Pretty sure Norm Abram calls them "Biscuits", not cookies. But whatever. The purpose is the same. Just finished a Lazutin hive build from his book. Shes a big'un to be sure. Put in a false wall to accept Layens frames.
Splines is usually what they have been called. biscuits usually are only an inch or 2 long...
it is easier and more cost effective to find some one to build hives and i pay for the hive and shipping then it would to build a shop and buy the tools and machines to build my own hives, i am not any kind of wood worker i leave that to people that know how to do that ,, i am a gardener been one my whole life
Well said - I agree. You can always work out bartering with folks if money is a little tight. Garden veggies are always a treat!
IT'S NOT a cookie you may be thinking a "bisuit" and this ain't that either it's a spline joint.
Too heavy