Awesome design! I love how you came up with idea of connecting your frames with these dovetail joints. I look forward to seeing more of your processes. Awesome!!!
Hi Gregory! The bees do propolize the frames together, but it's simple enough to break the propolis joint by running a knife along the edge. I demonstrated separating the two frames in a recent video: th-cam.com/video/Km_gnaZK4Bw/w-d-xo.html
The dovetail design you use is 'sticky'. In practice, i don't think it would be a simple easy process of separation especially when glued all along with wax. if the lower frame is flush with the upper then a thin strip of metal screwed on the side of the lower frame and attached to the upper by a single screw or latch would suffice - the simpler the better as far as i am concerned. Good effort mind.
Thanks for the comment! I actually have a couple videos that show how the frames get separated. All it takes is breaking the joint by scoring along the seam with a knife. But I do agree, simpler is better. I just couldn't figure out a way of using a screw or latch that would be simpler than the dovetail. But I'm always open to ideas :)
i dont see why you call these "horizontal". if you do not expand horizontally,its just a deeper(longer) hive box. good marketing ploy,tho! but misleading. no offense,i really like much of what ive seen from you. the x2 frames are very nice! i especially like the one with thje dowel,none separable one. i will make them one day,myself.
That is totally awesome! I like the windows! They will be super useful in winter when checking on the bees with out having to open it up to check on feed etc Really hope you post vids on the progress of this hive! Wish you the best of luck! Happy Bee Keeping! "Edit and update comment after watching rest of video" My guess is they will propolis them sliding frames together so you might need to invent a divice to push them apart with out ruining your frames. Like a grove you place the frame in then push the top frame if that makes sense? That is like a Layens Hive on Steroids it really is brilliant! Great work!
Great improvements! You have just revolutionized the bee industry! I will forever be in your debt. I built a similar hive box last year. Get some florescent tape and wrap it around the middle of your hive tool. Now if you drop it at nite you will find it easier! Quid pro quo!
Good day from Aus. What brought you to neighbouring New Zealand? Can you help me understand something about the double deeps... if you have brood in the bottom half and they put honey in the top, you can zip them apart to take the tops for honey extraction, but how do you put the brood back when the tops away? You don't want to shift brood comb arround right - as its clustered and temperature sensitive so that bottom part goes back with a new hanger?? ... please follow up video after a year with lessons learnt so we're not all making same mistakes ♡ cheers
Hello Denver! Greetings from the States. My girlfriend and I spent 10 months traveling around NZ before COVID hit just because we could! We had both recently graduated from college and wanted to do a big trip before starting our respective careers. As for the hive operation, you are right, I do not disturb the brood frames at all. The 10 double frames in between the queen excludes all have some amount of brood, and I also leave whatever honey they store in that section for overwintering. You in Aus may not need that :) I only extract honey from the outer sections where there is no brood to be disturbed. Hope this helps! Happy beekeeping!
hey: why not putting your LS-deep frames vertically??? Beekeepers do this for centuries .. The variations are called: Layens, Mellifera.. and: please insulate your very big hive and please think about what bees prefer, that is not : vertical frames in horizontal hives but: vertical frames in vertical hives :)
That's a LOT of hard work! I'm really impressed by your method of fitting to deep frames together because so far, the other option was/is to saw off the "ear" of one frame and tie the two together with tie-wraps. I also like how you set-up the inside in a way to place a single queen excluder on each side. Very clever! Just a few comments (not bashing): there IS a reason for the "double deep" - it has to do with similarity to "wild" bees naturally establishing their colonies in hollow tree trunks. I'm surprised that in your research you didn't come across the Lazutin hive (which is essentially what you re-designed) as you mention Dr. Leo's hive. I know it's now a year later and you have an updated video, but you might want to read Keeping Bees with a Smile by F. Lazutin - most of the footwork has been done and it'll help you take a few leaps ahead.. I'm also wondering about how your bees will fare over winter. Keep up the research and innovation! It's something we don't have enough. You will definitely design a beehive that is perfect for northern North America.
Hello! Thanks for the encouraging comment :) I actually based this design heavily on the Lazutin and Sharashkin hives described in Keeping Bees With a Smile (but must not have explained that clearly!) As for overwintering, I had one colony survive and one colony die, I think due to Varroa. Based on the experiences I've heard from other beekeepers in my region this winter, I'm happy to have even one colony survive.
Thanks for sharing your ideas but I believe those frames would be hard to pull them out with bees, second wax and propolis will stick them like glue together and they won’t slide to take a part.
I like the bigger frame. I do NOT like the bar in the middle since that is where bees initially winter. separating the cluster may be a very bad thing with a winter like we are having this year 2022/2023. Bees are also reluctant to build below that middle bar.
I am converting to a Layen's style but am using Lang' deeps turned to on end. I can't go wide like a layen hive for extraction purposes. I get to keep and use my smaller extractor and with the layen style I can do more extraction throughout the summer and refrigerate hives for needed feeding in the fall. I can then feed bees their food that is nutritional and ph balanced to their needs and I only have one size frame for my swarm traps and hives..
I love the bottom rail with base mesh for summer ventilation. And thankyou.... I was always wondering how a hive works but I didnt quite get what bee keepers were saying... your explanation helped a lot.
Great hive. If you ever consider building a second model, here are few changes I would like. Your hive has no insulation for colder locations. Consider using 2" side walls or a gap between the inter wall and outer wall. Place insulation in the gap. Some us bee keepers practice Dr. Seely's. We have not venting in the bottom and top of our hives. Bees in the wild never have upper vents in their tree hives. Consider having a removable sold bottom board with a removal screen board. Best of both worlds. You need more groves for the queen excluders. One of the reasons bee swarm is the brood area becomes to crowded. With additional groves you can enlarge the brood space.
Hi Vaclav! I only have one year under my belt, but this year it seemed to work well. The bees did propolize the frames together, but by using a small knife or hive tool I could score along the joint and that was enough to allow the frames to separate. You can see me demonstrate that in this video: th-cam.com/video/Km_gnaZK4Bw/w-d-xo.html
excellent idea on frame design. moisture can do funny things to the wood. even with a loose fitting dove tail there will be a few frames that might want to put up a fight lol. i have been building horizontal hives , well hives of all types for a long time, just posted a new design of a double deep. working on a few ideas with frames also, again, very nice design, hope you can do a follow up when its time to harvest some honey to show how your frame design works. my friend over in Italy uses a deep and medium deep hive set up. the cross bar between the two frames is not as wide as the side bar, about 3/16 thinner on both sides, he places wax on that like a starter strip and the bee's put comb all the way down and cover the center bar between both frames.
That's a great idea with having the cross bar between the frames being not as wide as the side bars. I've actually been planning on doing just that with my new hive. Thanks for the suggestion!
This is a very good idea and I would be interested in seeing some real hive data on this and others experiences as to what the bees do to the joints and if they will propolyze the joints and by doing so they will become near impossible to disassemble without breaking the material. thoughts? great job!
Can you please tell me what your internal measurement is? I want to compare it to other measurements. I don’t want to mess up with the bee space when the standard frames are inserted. So I would need the width and depth. Not the long measurement. Thanks
@@DavidStrout000 17.5? But I thought the frames were 19 inches or 19 and half inches wide show 17 1/2 seems a little narrow. If it only becomes convenient for you if you could check with a tape measure I would appreciate that a lot
@@navarra4 I’m sorry I misspoke. The top bar of a frame is 19” and the 17.5” is the dimension from the outer edges of the side bars. The hive box is 18.25”, to allow for 3/8” bee space on each side of the frame and 3/8” for each side of the top bar to rest on
Still working that one out. In late summer I tried I tried some SHB traps with oil in them with mild success. Currently trying to figure out if there's a better way. Thanks for the question!
That dovetail joint will not be easy to slide the 2 frames apart after the bees propalize those frames not to mention they will be very heavy when filled with honey. One frame is heavy enough without being a double. Nice try though. You would be better off attaching them another way only for the young. Each one of your double frames can weigh up to 16 pounds with honey. This is why a single frame is used. Maybe a narrower but deeper frame with the same space would work better. Like turn the regular deep frame vertical instead of horizontal. For harsh winter states like wisconsin, wool insulation and thick walled hives are the only way to go. Good to see a thinker though keep going.
Hi Daniel! Thanks for the comment! I've actually posted a video showing that although the bees do propolize the frames together, by scoring along the seam with a knife they are easy enough to separate. As far as weight, my thinking is that I would rather have a couple 15 lb frames instead of a 50 lb honey super. Of course, that's personal preference :) Turning the frames sideways is a good idea and I did consider doing that, but that presented it's own problems. One, it would make for a very slender, top-heavy hive that would be more prone to tipping over. In addition, a large winter bee cluster can be 10-14 inches in diameter, so simply turning a regular deep frame sideways wouldn't provide enough space for a strong colony. I appreciate your input and happy beekeeping!
What as great job based on well thought out principles. on the well-being of the bees The only thing you might want to do, is add a blanking strip to your dovetail slot at the bottom of the bottom frame to stop the bee from filling the slot with propolis. Also, the deeper the frames, the greater the risk of crushing bees, greater still if the attached frames slide apart.. Further design can help negate this risk. I love fact that you have actually created your design. Well done again!!
Excellent build well done! I take it for $15.00 (way to cheap by the way) American you will email plans minus assembly through email? I am Canadian so I will need to insulate all sides, top and bottom.
Hi John! Thanks for the question. Actually the best way to purchase these plans is through my family’s website at www.a-cut-above-design.com/product-page/strout-horizontal-hive-with-double-frames And make sure to use the promo code buzzbuzz to get $5 off! That way the files are available for download immediately after purchase.
They came apart easy enough in my latest honey harvest! th-cam.com/video/smE0TVaVW2E/w-d-xo.html Sometimes, if they are very propolis-ed together, it helps to score along the joint with a knife.
@@Yuhmuthasaho The only tricky thing is cutting the dovetail joints with the right amount of slop. They want to be a little loose in your shop so that when they swell from the moisture in the hive they can still slide apart for the harvest.
Thanks for the question Ben. The sliding action is working as intended. You don't really want to be separating the halves when there are still bees on them, but when you're inside it's easy enough. I use a knife to score along the joint and that is enough to allow the frames to slide apart.
Hi Cindy! The bees do propolize the frames together, but it's simple enough to break the propolis joint by running a knife along the edge. I demonstrated separating the two frames in a recent video: th-cam.com/video/Km_gnaZK4Bw/w-d-xo.html Thanks for the question!
I wanted to congratulate you on how wonderful all these inventions you have come up with. They are fantastic. I also would like to offer you a tip I have learned with Dr. Leo Shiratshin. He, and several other experts on horizontal and Layens hives, say that if the middle bar of the double deep frames are not really thin, like 2/8" of an inch, the bees have shown that they don't usually go down to the bottom half of the frame. Even though I find your slider idea genius, try shaving a little of the width off and see--just an idea. But boy, you have some mind to come up with an idea like that. I too am trying to think outside of the box. I have two Flow Hives, which are Langstroth Deep boxes, yet I have connected a deep box to a medium box and have built 15 6/8" long frames for them them to have 6 1/2" more space of length on each frame. This way I don't ever need to add another brood box, just my Flow Honey Super. I LOVE IT> And these experts are not proving that longer frames that mimic how they build in nature, and with allowing the bees to build their own comb, which is always smaller than any drawn plastic or wax foundation thus a smaller bee, ensures a better survival rate from winters, better defenses from diseases and mites, and even longer lives of the bees. I'm determined to help them anyway possible. That even means for me Chemical Free all the way. I still treat, but only with Drone Frame Freezes and smoking 4 times a year with Dried Black Walnut Hulls. I wish you the best my young friend.
Thank you Brad for the encouraging remarks :) I like the sound of your setup too. Hopefully I can have the same outcome as you as I have no interest in chemically treating my bees.
Sure thing my friend. $15 and I will send them your way. Just a warning though, there are no assembly instructions with the plans, it's just the part diagrams. If you're still interested, send me an email at dmstrout5@gmail.com and we can talk payment
The roof is made of two triangular side pieces connected by two rails along the bottom, with 3/4" plywood on top. I then covered the plywood with house wrapping and then covered the wrap with some left over cedar shingles I had from another project. You can kind of get an idea of the roof construction from my Instagram video: th-cam.com/video/h_hPZOP5AdY/w-d-xo.html (the quality of the vid is not the greatest, sorry). Hope this helps!
@@DavidStrout000amazing. David, are you great at shop--it looks like it from here. Could I hire you to build me ten modified layens frames (unassembled) for my langstronth modified boxes? I have all the measurements. Rather simply job, I just don't own a shop. I'd pay for EVERYTHING
@@bradgoliphant I might be able to help. If you send me your measurements I can give you an estimated price and we can go from there :) My email is dmstrout5@gmail.com
@@DavidStrout000 Really???!!! OMGosh. It would mean so much to me. I'm so grateful you have even considered this. I'll email you the measurements in an hour or so. It only 10 modified Langstoth frames to be more like a Layens. All Unassembled. I'll pay for EVERYTHING-PLUS A TIP. I'm so grateful.
@@DavidStrout000 David, I just emailed you!!! So excited! It's basically an Langstrogh frame, modified to be longer. Please call, I would love to discuss and meet you. 9176644917
Oh, I forgot on last tip David. If you build some thin and small triangles made of wood, and paint them with melted wax, you can glue them to the bottom top board of the bottom half of the double deep and it helps coax the bees to start on the lower half of the frame. (it's that thick bar that stops them most the time.)
Hmm that's an interesting idea I might try that next time. I do have a wax-coated starter strip that runs the full length of the frame, but you're saying that a slightly large triangle might work better? Thanks for the suggestion :)
@@DavidStrout000 No, just small, like 2" triangle strips. If your using wax foundation, then it should not be a problem. Yet I only believe in allowing the bees to build their own. I've learned from the best, and if bees have a 2" "triangular waxed strip, they get to it right away. Simply because if you look at any naturally drawn comb, they always start it in a shape of a triangle. Again, amazing stuff your doing.
Lots of ingenious thought and work put into this! I think those double stacked frames are going to be REALLY heavy to pull out of the box after they are loaded with brood and honey though. Just a single frame, full of honey, can be quite heavy.
Thank you! The double frames do get heavy, but it’s not unmanageable. I should try weighing one next season to see how much a double frame can actually weigh.
Awesome design! I love how you came up with idea of connecting your frames with these dovetail joints. I look forward to seeing more of your processes. Awesome!!!
Thank you!
أفكار جديدة وجيدة أخي الكريم شكراً جزيلاً
interesting concept........hope it works out.........
Duża ramka to wielkie utrudnienie dla pszczelarza i pszczół. Wiem bo pracuje na Warszawskiej Poszerzanej.
Brilliant
How did you learn woodworking?
Hey David, I never heard back from you. Busy? Did you change your mind? Just let me know. I'm still hoping you can help.
👈🏻👈🏻خاصك دير فيه الزاج لكي ترى النحل هل قاموا بوفر العسل أو لا بدون فتح الخالية فقط تراه عبر الزاج
I like the design on the frames, but I'm afraid that the bees will seal the joints with propolis and it may be hard to separate them.
Hi Gregory! The bees do propolize the frames together, but it's simple enough to break the propolis joint by running a knife along the edge. I demonstrated separating the two frames in a recent video: th-cam.com/video/Km_gnaZK4Bw/w-d-xo.html
The dovetail design you use is 'sticky'. In practice, i don't think it would be a simple easy process of separation especially when glued all along with wax. if the lower frame is flush with the upper then a thin strip of metal screwed on the side of the lower frame and attached to the upper by a single screw or latch would suffice - the simpler the better as far as i am concerned. Good effort mind.
Thanks for the comment! I actually have a couple videos that show how the frames get separated. All it takes is breaking the joint by scoring along the seam with a knife. But I do agree, simpler is better. I just couldn't figure out a way of using a screw or latch that would be simpler than the dovetail. But I'm always open to ideas :)
i dont see why you call these "horizontal". if you do not expand horizontally,its just a deeper(longer) hive box.
good marketing ploy,tho! but misleading. no offense,i really like much of what ive seen from you. the x2 frames are very nice! i especially like the one with thje dowel,none separable one. i will make them one day,myself.
That is totally awesome! I like the windows! They will be super useful in winter when checking on the bees with out having to open it up to check on feed etc Really hope you post vids on the progress of this hive! Wish you the best of luck! Happy Bee Keeping! "Edit and update comment after watching rest of video"
My guess is they will propolis them sliding frames together so you might need to invent a divice to push them apart with out ruining your frames. Like a grove you place the frame in then push the top frame if that makes sense? That is like a Layens Hive on Steroids it really is brilliant! Great work!
Great improvements! You have just revolutionized the bee industry! I will forever be in your debt. I built a similar hive box last year. Get some florescent tape and wrap it around the middle of your hive tool. Now if you drop it at nite you will find it easier! Quid pro quo!
Moisture content aside, the sticky propolis might make getting those apart difficult. Why not use a Layens frame?
Basically for the sole reason of wanting to use a honey extractor
Good day from Aus. What brought you to neighbouring New Zealand? Can you help me understand something about the double deeps... if you have brood in the bottom half and they put honey in the top, you can zip them apart to take the tops for honey extraction, but how do you put the brood back when the tops away? You don't want to shift brood comb arround right - as its clustered and temperature sensitive so that bottom part goes back with a new hanger?? ... please follow up video after a year with lessons learnt so we're not all making same mistakes ♡ cheers
Hello Denver! Greetings from the States. My girlfriend and I spent 10 months traveling around NZ before COVID hit just because we could! We had both recently graduated from college and wanted to do a big trip before starting our respective careers. As for the hive operation, you are right, I do not disturb the brood frames at all. The 10 double frames in between the queen excludes all have some amount of brood, and I also leave whatever honey they store in that section for overwintering. You in Aus may not need that :) I only extract honey from the outer sections where there is no brood to be disturbed. Hope this helps! Happy beekeeping!
Very nice design that you put a lot of thought into. Obviously you are an engineer.
hey: why not putting your LS-deep frames vertically??? Beekeepers do this for centuries .. The variations are called: Layens, Mellifera.. and: please insulate your very big hive and please think about what bees prefer, that is not : vertical frames in horizontal hives but: vertical frames in vertical hives :)
That's a LOT of hard work! I'm really impressed by your method of fitting to deep frames together because so far, the other option was/is to saw off the "ear" of one frame and tie the two together with tie-wraps. I also like how you set-up the inside in a way to place a single queen excluder on each side. Very clever!
Just a few comments (not bashing): there IS a reason for the "double deep" - it has to do with similarity to "wild" bees naturally establishing their colonies in hollow tree trunks. I'm surprised that in your research you didn't come across the Lazutin hive (which is essentially what you re-designed) as you mention Dr. Leo's hive. I know it's now a year later and you have an updated video, but you might want to read Keeping Bees with a Smile by F. Lazutin - most of the footwork has been done and it'll help you take a few leaps ahead..
I'm also wondering about how your bees will fare over winter.
Keep up the research and innovation! It's something we don't have enough. You will definitely design a beehive that is perfect for northern North America.
Hello! Thanks for the encouraging comment :) I actually based this design heavily on the Lazutin and Sharashkin hives described in Keeping Bees With a Smile (but must not have explained that clearly!) As for overwintering, I had one colony survive and one colony die, I think due to Varroa. Based on the experiences I've heard from other beekeepers in my region this winter, I'm happy to have even one colony survive.
Thanks for sharing your ideas but I believe those frames would be hard to pull them out with bees, second wax and propolis will stick them like glue together and they won’t slide to take a part.
I like the bigger frame. I do NOT like the bar in the middle since that is where bees initially winter. separating the cluster may be a very bad thing with a winter like we are having this year 2022/2023. Bees are also reluctant to build below that middle bar.
The double frames are a great idea, but i cant help but think the bees will glue them all up with wax and propolis over time rendering them unworkable
Anyone in Canada overwintering bees successfully in layens??
Clever! I’ve got a langstroth that I want to convert into a Layens. This seems to be the best idea.
I am converting to a Layen's style but am using Lang' deeps turned to on end. I can't go wide like a layen hive for extraction purposes. I get to keep and use my smaller extractor and with the layen style I can do more extraction throughout the summer and refrigerate hives for needed feeding in the fall. I can then feed bees their food that is nutritional and ph balanced to their needs and I only have one size frame for my swarm traps and hives..
I love the bottom rail with base mesh for summer ventilation. And thankyou.... I was always wondering how a hive works but I didnt quite get what bee keepers were saying... your explanation helped a lot.
have you seen vino farms double frame,how has your worked out?
vino farm
He does do something very similar!
I would like to see what has happened now that it's been a year.
Great design and well done construct hive, thank you to inspire me with your top making idea
its not recommended
Great hive. If you ever consider building a second model, here are few changes I would like. Your hive has no insulation for colder locations. Consider using 2" side walls or a gap between the inter wall and outer wall. Place insulation in the gap. Some us bee keepers practice Dr. Seely's. We have not venting in the bottom and top of our hives. Bees in the wild never have upper vents in their tree hives. Consider having a removable sold bottom board with a removal screen board. Best of both worlds. You need more groves for the queen excluders. One of the reasons bee swarm is the brood area becomes to crowded. With additional groves you can enlarge the brood space.
All good suggestions. I'll keep them in mind!
You can rub "gulf wax" on the dove tail frame slides.
Good to know!
Looks cool, but I am not sure how well it will work when bees will cover those frames with propolyse.
Hi Vaclav! I only have one year under my belt, but this year it seemed to work well. The bees did propolize the frames together, but by using a small knife or hive tool I could score along the joint and that was enough to allow the frames to separate. You can see me demonstrate that in this video: th-cam.com/video/Km_gnaZK4Bw/w-d-xo.html
excellent idea on frame design. moisture can do funny things to the wood. even with a loose fitting dove tail there will be a few frames that might want to put up a fight lol. i have been building horizontal hives , well hives of all types for a long time, just posted a new design of a double deep. working on a few ideas with frames also, again, very nice design, hope you can do a follow up when its time to harvest some honey to show how your frame design works. my friend over in Italy uses a deep and medium deep hive set up. the cross bar between the two frames is not as wide as the side bar, about 3/16 thinner on both sides, he places wax on that like a starter strip and the bee's put comb all the way down and cover the center bar between both frames.
That's a great idea with having the cross bar between the frames being not as wide as the side bars. I've actually been planning on doing just that with my new hive. Thanks for the suggestion!
What fun. Lucky parents to have such an innovative son. Great job.
Thank you!
Love the dovetail adaptation for the Lazutin hive. I hope to see how it works out.
Thanks George!
Ok but you will have to make every frame
This is true. I guess it's a good thing that I like woodworking :)
*Hi from a Steelers fan 🙂Awesome design man. I always look for new and innovative ways and I am amazed! Thank you for sharing.*
A Steelers fan!!! I thought I had set the video to only be visible for Patriots fans... 🤣 Thanks for the comment 😊
😂
You did an awesome job !
Thanks Lanka!
I absolutely love your design. Thank you for sharing :)
Thanks Ingvar!
Congratulations
This is a very good idea and I would be interested in seeing some real hive data on this and others experiences as to what the bees do to the joints and if they will propolyze the joints and by doing so they will become near impossible to disassemble without breaking the material. thoughts? great job!
Can you please tell me what your internal measurement is? I want to compare it to other measurements. I don’t want to mess up with the bee space when the standard frames are inserted. So I would need the width and depth. Not the long measurement. Thanks
Hi there! I believe the width is 17.5" and the depth is 18.5"
@@DavidStrout000 17.5? But I thought the frames were 19 inches or 19 and half inches wide show 17 1/2 seems a little narrow. If it only becomes convenient for you if you could check with a tape measure I would appreciate that a lot
@@navarra4 I’m sorry I misspoke. The top bar of a frame is 19” and the 17.5” is the dimension from the outer edges of the side bars. The hive box is 18.25”, to allow for 3/8” bee space on each side of the frame and 3/8” for each side of the top bar to rest on
@@DavidStrout000 thank you. That 18 inch measurement was what I was looking for. Trying to get an idea.
over engineered for the purpose of engineering..
by an engineer who enjoys engineering
meanwhile the bees ar4e happy in a hollow tree
haha that sums it up nicely :)
hollow tree = destruction of the nest to get any honey.
How did you solve the hive beetle problem?
Still working that one out. In late summer I tried I tried some SHB traps with oil in them with mild success. Currently trying to figure out if there's a better way. Thanks for the question!
Love the design. Do you have full built plans ?
Thanks Erick. I do have a full set of plans! They don’t cover assembly, but I have all of the part drawings with their dimensions.
That dovetail joint will not be easy to slide the 2 frames apart after the bees propalize those frames not to mention they will be very heavy when filled with honey. One frame is heavy enough without being a double. Nice try though. You would be better off attaching them another way only for the young. Each one of your double frames can weigh up to 16 pounds with honey. This is why a single frame is used. Maybe a narrower but deeper frame with the same space would work better. Like turn the regular deep frame vertical instead of horizontal. For harsh winter states like wisconsin, wool insulation and thick walled hives are the only way to go. Good to see a thinker though keep going.
Hi Daniel! Thanks for the comment! I've actually posted a video showing that although the bees do propolize the frames together, by scoring along the seam with a knife they are easy enough to separate. As far as weight, my thinking is that I would rather have a couple 15 lb frames instead of a 50 lb honey super. Of course, that's personal preference :) Turning the frames sideways is a good idea and I did consider doing that, but that presented it's own problems. One, it would make for a very slender, top-heavy hive that would be more prone to tipping over. In addition, a large winter bee cluster can be 10-14 inches in diameter, so simply turning a regular deep frame sideways wouldn't provide enough space for a strong colony. I appreciate your input and happy beekeeping!
What as great job based on well thought out principles. on the well-being of the bees The only thing you might want to do, is add a blanking strip to your dovetail slot at the bottom of the bottom frame to stop the bee from filling the slot with propolis. Also, the deeper the frames, the greater the risk of crushing bees, greater still if the attached frames slide apart.. Further design can help negate this risk. I love fact that you have actually created your design. Well done again!!
Thanks for the kind words! I appreciate your thoughts on the design too, I'm always trying to improve the hive design!
Excellent build well done! I take it for $15.00 (way to cheap by the way) American you will email plans minus assembly through email? I am Canadian so I will need to insulate all sides, top and bottom.
Hi John! Thanks for the question. Actually the best way to purchase these plans is through my family’s website at www.a-cut-above-design.com/product-page/strout-horizontal-hive-with-double-frames
And make sure to use the promo code buzzbuzz to get $5 off! That way the files are available for download immediately after purchase.
Did those dovetail joints get full of propolis and not come apart easy?
They came apart easy enough in my latest honey harvest! th-cam.com/video/smE0TVaVW2E/w-d-xo.html
Sometimes, if they are very propolis-ed together, it helps to score along the joint with a knife.
@@DavidStrout000 awesome. Any other things to look out for when building this? Seems like the perfect hive set up to me
@@Yuhmuthasaho The only tricky thing is cutting the dovetail joints with the right amount of slop. They want to be a little loose in your shop so that when they swell from the moisture in the hive they can still slide apart for the harvest.
@@DavidStrout000 on camera the latest edition of frames look pretty flimsy after you thinned them down. Hold up fine?
@@Yuhmuthasaho so far so good
now that you had these double-frames for a year: how does the sliding work after a year of propolis production?
Thanks for the question Ben. The sliding action is working as intended. You don't really want to be separating the halves when there are still bees on them, but when you're inside it's easy enough. I use a knife to score along the joint and that is enough to allow the frames to slide apart.
Do the bees Propolize the two frames together? I love the idea of getting deep frames that can be used in extractor.
Hi Cindy! The bees do propolize the frames together, but it's simple enough to break the propolis joint by running a knife along the edge. I demonstrated separating the two frames in a recent video: th-cam.com/video/Km_gnaZK4Bw/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for the question!
I wanted to congratulate you on how wonderful all these inventions you have come up with. They are fantastic. I also would like to offer you a tip I have learned with Dr. Leo Shiratshin. He, and several other experts on horizontal and Layens hives, say that if the middle bar of the double deep frames are not really thin, like 2/8" of an inch, the bees have shown that they don't usually go down to the bottom half of the frame. Even though I find your slider idea genius, try shaving a little of the width off and see--just an idea. But boy, you have some mind to come up with an idea like that. I too am trying to think outside of the box. I have two Flow Hives, which are Langstroth Deep boxes, yet I have connected a deep box to a medium box and have built 15 6/8" long frames for them them to have 6 1/2" more space of length on each frame. This way I don't ever need to add another brood box, just my Flow Honey Super. I LOVE IT> And these experts are not proving that longer frames that mimic how they build in nature, and with allowing the bees to build their own comb, which is always smaller than any drawn plastic or wax foundation thus a smaller bee, ensures a better survival rate from winters, better defenses from diseases and mites, and even longer lives of the bees. I'm determined to help them anyway possible. That even means for me Chemical Free all the way. I still treat, but only with Drone Frame Freezes and smoking 4 times a year with Dried Black Walnut Hulls. I wish you the best my young friend.
Thank you Brad for the encouraging remarks :) I like the sound of your setup too. Hopefully I can have the same outcome as you as I have no interest in chemically treating my bees.
Very interested on how to maintain a hive with minimal chemicals. Where did you find the references of the freeze and smoke? TY in advance.
I hope you patent your frame idea. It could be worth a lot of money.
Thanks Will! I've been thinking about it, but for now I'm content to keep prototyping and sharing my journey :)
would love to buy a copy of the blue prints
Sure thing my friend. $15 and I will send them your way. Just a warning though, there are no assembly instructions with the plans, it's just the part diagrams. If you're still interested, send me an email at dmstrout5@gmail.com and we can talk payment
I am a first time beekeeper and this is genius.
Thanks Sally!
Question for you David. Can you share how you built the hinge roof? What materials you used? Grateful.
The roof is made of two triangular side pieces connected by two rails along the bottom, with 3/4" plywood on top. I then covered the plywood with house wrapping and then covered the wrap with some left over cedar shingles I had from another project. You can kind of get an idea of the roof construction from my Instagram video: th-cam.com/video/h_hPZOP5AdY/w-d-xo.html (the quality of the vid is not the greatest, sorry). Hope this helps!
@@DavidStrout000amazing. David, are you great at shop--it looks like it from here. Could I hire you to build me ten modified layens frames (unassembled) for my langstronth modified boxes? I have all the measurements. Rather simply job, I just don't own a shop. I'd pay for EVERYTHING
@@bradgoliphant I might be able to help. If you send me your measurements I can give you an estimated price and we can go from there :) My email is dmstrout5@gmail.com
@@DavidStrout000 Really???!!! OMGosh. It would mean so much to me. I'm so grateful you have even considered this. I'll email you the measurements in an hour or so. It only 10 modified Langstoth frames to be more like a Layens. All Unassembled. I'll pay for EVERYTHING-PLUS A TIP. I'm so grateful.
@@DavidStrout000 David, I just emailed you!!! So excited! It's basically an Langstrogh frame, modified to be longer. Please call, I would love to discuss and meet you. 9176644917
Oh, I forgot on last tip David. If you build some thin and small triangles made of wood, and paint them with melted wax, you can glue them to the bottom top board of the bottom half of the double deep and it helps coax the bees to start on the lower half of the frame. (it's that thick bar that stops them most the time.)
Hmm that's an interesting idea I might try that next time. I do have a wax-coated starter strip that runs the full length of the frame, but you're saying that a slightly large triangle might work better? Thanks for the suggestion :)
@@DavidStrout000 No, just small, like 2" triangle strips. If your using wax foundation, then it should not be a problem. Yet I only believe in allowing the bees to build their own. I've learned from the best, and if bees have a 2" "triangular waxed strip, they get to it right away. Simply because if you look at any naturally drawn comb, they always start it in a shape of a triangle. Again, amazing stuff your doing.
Lots of ingenious thought and work put into this! I think those double stacked frames are going to be REALLY heavy to pull out of the box after they are loaded with brood and honey though. Just a single frame, full of honey, can be quite heavy.
Thank you! The double frames do get heavy, but it’s not unmanageable. I should try weighing one next season to see how much a double frame can actually weigh.