My experience has been the same with regards to the bees coming out more readily when the gap between frames is about a bee or two in distance. I use both your technique and employ wild turkey feathers (either wing primary or tail) to move then down whilst moving the frames together. The last resort is smoke, though I rarely need to.
Thank you, very nice video. I always have used the first method, a slow vertical drop when installing my Layan's frames. Will try your corner edge method next time and see how it goes.
Bought my first horizontal layens hive in January, set it up exactly like the instructions said to. Had a large swarm move into it in early June. After a week I went to inspect them and they had built comb on the lid in the open space. None of the frames were touched. Filled the hive with all 25 frames and they began to use them. Think bees just do whatever they want when it comes to setting up shop for their new home.
Did you have any entrances open besides the one on the end with the frames? And did you have a divider board in place at the end of the frames? I've never had bees build in the open end; the closest I've had to that is a very productive colony that started drawing comb on frames I'd stored in the open end. They will typically start building closest to the entrance, but if they have an alternate entrance which they choose to use then they would start building comb there regardless of the presence of frames.
@@SuburbanSodbuster This horizontal hive has 2 entrances on the front, opposite side of lid latches. I made and installed the divider board but wasn't confident in its effectiveness. These bees started drawing comb on the furthest frame next to end wall. Think they have drawn 7 to 8 frames as of last week. Think I can pull the those empty frames on opposite side, put divider board back up now? On a side note, I really never want to go back to Langs after having this horizontal, they are just awesome!
I joked about the bees that would hang out in the empty side of the follower board being the lazy bees. They never built any comb over there at all. Im happy you did this video. I could have used this info in the spring cuz i just found out about the slide down technique about a month ago. I didnt want to do inspections due to the horrible smash crackle sound when putting frames back together. Ty
I was a few days late checking my Layens hives during flow once and in one hive they built comb on empty frames I leave on the empty side of the divider board.
It is a sickening sound and feeling, and one reason I prefer to work the hive bare-handed. Without gloves, and working slowly, I can sometimes feel the resistance of a bee in the way and back off before she's hurt.
I had a very productive hive do the same. They still had comb to build within the hive but also began drawing out frames I'd stored in the empty space. I was trying to add frames in an orderly manner but went ahead and added all of the frames they were working on. Their plans vs. mine.
I have a cedar shake that use to gently coax them down. it just makes the space too narrow for them to come up when i get to that last poke their head up moment. I will give these techniques a try and see if it is more efficient.
Between work (the "real" job that pays the mortgage) and just keeping up with the garden and bees in the springtime, I've kind of fallen off my weekly posting schedule. But I have some videos in planning and hope to get back to regular postings. Thanks for commenting - it's good to know I've been missed.
Great tips. This is something I struggled with, and the smoker was my only solution, but I don't always light my smoker when checking the bees as they are pretty tame. Will try these ideas next time
Thanks for the tips, I do struggle with this. I do not like to use my smoker unless they are defensive. I heard someone using a squirter bottle, have not tried that
I started out with the usual layens frame design, then dealing with the bee smashing issue and most of all not knowing how bees are doing in the winter and unable to top dry feed them, and since i build all my frames, I started to cut my top frame piece at same size as side which is 1"and just space frames with my fingers. Easy frame build and no need for router the shoulders on side pieces.
Good ideas. I've had good luck rotating frames when pulling and returning to keep from rolling them on the sides. Someone suggested gentle blowing to get them out of the crack as an alternative to smoke, and although I was hesitant to try it at first, it's a go to for me now, esp if my smoker isn't lit, I'm just doing a quick looksie, or I'm at the end of a more involved inspection. Works like a champ, and doesn't stir them up as much as I thought it might.
I usually blow on them with my own breath as I move the frame closer horizontally. Bees don’t like human breath and move lower on the frame allows me to close it completely.
Why smash bees at all? One great non-mentioned technique is the simplest: while vertically (and slowly!) inserting the frame,…just blow on any bees that happen to be in the way - they will move immediately. th-cam.com/video/mq9W8q3EL9A/w-d-xo.html
If a colony seems weak/low on resources at the end of summer then they can be fed thick syrup in a frame feeder to help them build up. I only do that in extreme cases, though, like for a late season rescue. Besides that I don't feed or open the hives over winter. With the deep frames the bees typically store up adequate honey at the top and along the sides of the brood frames on which they will cluster over winter. Between that and a full frame of honey on each end they should have plenty to get through winter and spring brood rearing until nectar is available. In my insulated hives I'm surprised at how little honey they actually eat, and their stores have been sufficient even in the non-insulated hives. This last winter all 7 of my Layens hives survived through winter without feeding.
I waited all last year for a swarm. I had 7 swarm traps all in the right kinda places at the right height in shade yadda yadda but nothing. So i bought bees this spring. I just pulled 60 lbs of honey. Good luck
In addition to hoping for a swarm I recommend, at the beginning of and throughout swarm season, putting word out in any local community groups you can join (facebook, nextdoor, etc.) that you will come and collect swarms for free. It's difficult to catch a swarm starting out because your equipment is new and bees tend to prefer a place where bees have been before. I struck out in my first season of trapping swarms, but instead got my first colony through a community resource.
Thats how i do it too, it was very frustrating for me to learn but love my layens . I use the touch technique with the drop approach. Use you get them hot it works well for me with a feather/brush and spray bottle if needed If you do foundationless and its soft not fully built out enough, i think the 2 method will possibly break it..
I'm choosing the vertical--Layens frames are the only thing I hate about Layens. I struggle and kill bees every time I work a Layens hive...and the bees let me know. Thanks for the tips...give it a try.
What can make the Layens frames frustrating, particularly their touching top bars, is also an asset to the hive. They reduce the amount of disruption during inspections, they reduce the ability for pests (moths, beetles) get in or to run and hide from the bees, and they improve internal climate management. I hope this video will help to reduce the frustrations.
With the third variant you can smash the bees that are inside between the the sides of the frames when they get closer and eventually touch each other. The second variant is the best IMO
That's a possibility I've recognized but haven't seen it to be much of a problem in practice. At least the approach minimizes the surface area between which the bees can be trapped. I generally use a mix of approaches and actually do prefer to slide the frames in vertically, but sometimes the bees crowd in and make it impractical.
You can actually take put a couple few frames so you have more room. Good video to watch is. How to avoid smashing bees with layens behive frames by Suburban Sodbuster . Looks good so far. ;)
Thanks ! Smoke pisses my bees off (me too sometimes,) I have taken to useing a hawk feather (any will work) . Still challenging, but they go down. I can’t wait to try out your methods this spring. No Layens owners anywhere by me.
It's also been my experience that pre-emptively smoking the bees tends to put them on edge. I always light my smoker but try not to use it unless the bees get edgy. In my Layens hives it seems the bees will usually give me one pass through the hive without concern. If I go back through, for a second look, then they get tired of me. In the Langstroth hives they seem to get irritable more quickly.
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My experience has been the same with regards to the bees coming out more readily when the gap between frames is about a bee or two in distance. I use both your technique and employ wild turkey feathers (either wing primary or tail) to move then down whilst moving the frames together. The last resort is smoke, though I rarely need to.
Smashing video. 🥂 Slow down y'all!
Thank you, very nice video. I always have used the first method, a slow vertical drop when installing my Layan's frames. Will try your corner edge method next time and see how it goes.
Bought my first horizontal layens hive in January, set it up exactly like the instructions said to. Had a large swarm move into it in early June. After a week I went to inspect them and they had built comb on the lid in the open space. None of the frames were touched. Filled the hive with all 25 frames and they began to use them. Think bees just do whatever they want when it comes to setting up shop for their new home.
Did you have any entrances open besides the one on the end with the frames? And did you have a divider board in place at the end of the frames? I've never had bees build in the open end; the closest I've had to that is a very productive colony that started drawing comb on frames I'd stored in the open end. They will typically start building closest to the entrance, but if they have an alternate entrance which they choose to use then they would start building comb there regardless of the presence of frames.
@@SuburbanSodbuster This horizontal hive has 2 entrances on the front, opposite side of lid latches. I made and installed the divider board but wasn't confident in its effectiveness. These bees started drawing comb on the furthest frame next to end wall. Think they have drawn 7 to 8 frames as of last week. Think I can pull the those empty frames on opposite side, put divider board back up now? On a side note, I really never want to go back to Langs after having this horizontal, they are just awesome!
Most of my hives also have multiple entrances, but with 1 colony in the hive only 1 entrance should be open at a time.
I joked about the bees that would hang out in the empty side of the follower board being the lazy bees. They never built any comb over there at all. Im happy you did this video. I could have used this info in the spring cuz i just found out about the slide down technique about a month ago. I didnt want to do inspections due to the horrible smash crackle sound when putting frames back together. Ty
I was a few days late checking my Layens hives during flow once and in one hive they built comb on empty frames I leave on the empty side of the divider board.
It is a sickening sound and feeling, and one reason I prefer to work the hive bare-handed. Without gloves, and working slowly, I can sometimes feel the resistance of a bee in the way and back off before she's hurt.
I had a very productive hive do the same. They still had comb to build within the hive but also began drawing out frames I'd stored in the empty space. I was trying to add frames in an orderly manner but went ahead and added all of the frames they were working on. Their plans vs. mine.
I have a cedar shake that use to gently coax them down. it just makes the space too narrow for them to come up when i get to that last poke their head up moment.
I will give these techniques a try and see if it is more efficient.
Hadn't see ya in a while, had been wondering how your season has been going.😁 Have a wonderful Lords Day.
Between work (the "real" job that pays the mortgage) and just keeping up with the garden and bees in the springtime, I've kind of fallen off my weekly posting schedule. But I have some videos in planning and hope to get back to regular postings. Thanks for commenting - it's good to know I've been missed.
@@SuburbanSodbuster Cool cool, have a great day.👍
Great tips. This is something I struggled with, and the smoker was my only solution, but I don't always light my smoker when checking the bees as they are pretty tame. Will try these ideas next time
Thanks for the tips, I do struggle with this. I do not like to use my smoker unless they are defensive. I heard someone using a squirter bottle, have not tried that
I started out with the usual layens frame design, then dealing with the bee smashing issue and most of all not knowing how bees are doing in the winter and unable to top dry feed them, and since i build all my frames, I started to cut my top frame piece at same size as side which is 1"and just space frames with my fingers. Easy frame build and no need for router the shoulders on side pieces.
Great subject, Awesome tips!
Good ideas. I've had good luck rotating frames when pulling and returning to keep from rolling them on the sides. Someone suggested gentle blowing to get them out of the crack as an alternative to smoke, and although I was hesitant to try it at first, it's a go to for me now, esp if my smoker isn't lit, I'm just doing a quick looksie, or I'm at the end of a more involved inspection. Works like a champ, and doesn't stir them up as much as I thought it might.
For me on the top of the frame in hand but if I breath to close to my open hive it makes them boil...
Maybe it's my breath!!! 😅
I usually blow on them with my own breath as I move the frame closer horizontally. Bees don’t like human breath and move lower on the frame allows me to close it completely.
I have been using a feather I found outside from a goose that is used to move the bees out of the way. it is about 12 inches long
Why smash bees at all? One great non-mentioned technique is the simplest: while vertically (and slowly!) inserting the frame,…just blow on any bees that happen to be in the way - they will move immediately. th-cam.com/video/mq9W8q3EL9A/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for this video from France !😊
Just a question : how do you feed bees on Layens hive with Candy when they didn’t have enough reserve ? Thank a lot !
If a colony seems weak/low on resources at the end of summer then they can be fed thick syrup in a frame feeder to help them build up. I only do that in extreme cases, though, like for a late season rescue. Besides that I don't feed or open the hives over winter. With the deep frames the bees typically store up adequate honey at the top and along the sides of the brood frames on which they will cluster over winter. Between that and a full frame of honey on each end they should have plenty to get through winter and spring brood rearing until nectar is available. In my insulated hives I'm surprised at how little honey they actually eat, and their stores have been sufficient even in the non-insulated hives. This last winter all 7 of my Layens hives survived through winter without feeding.
Very helpful... have a nice layens and am waiting for a swarm. Thank you
I waited all last year for a swarm. I had 7 swarm traps all in the right kinda places at the right height in shade yadda yadda but nothing. So i bought bees this spring. I just pulled 60 lbs of honey. Good luck
In addition to hoping for a swarm I recommend, at the beginning of and throughout swarm season, putting word out in any local community groups you can join (facebook, nextdoor, etc.) that you will come and collect swarms for free. It's difficult to catch a swarm starting out because your equipment is new and bees tend to prefer a place where bees have been before. I struck out in my first season of trapping swarms, but instead got my first colony through a community resource.
It took until year 2 before I got a swarm. August.
@@lambbrookfarm4528 Yes, since they didn't just move right in the week I put it up I figured I would have to find some patience.
@@SuburbanSodbuster Most appreciated
Thats how i do it too, it was very frustrating for me to learn but love my layens . I use the touch technique with the drop approach. Use you get them hot it works well for me with a feather/brush and spray bottle if needed
If you do foundationless and its soft not fully built out enough, i think the 2 method will possibly break it..
Terrific explainer. Well done, sir!
Thank you! I'm glad you found this useful.
Glad I found your channel. Thanks for the demonstration.
I'm glad you found the channel, too! Thanks for watching!
I'm choosing the vertical--Layens frames are the only thing I hate about Layens. I struggle and kill bees every time I work a Layens hive...and the bees let me know. Thanks for the tips...give it a try.
What can make the Layens frames frustrating, particularly their touching top bars, is also an asset to the hive. They reduce the amount of disruption during inspections, they reduce the ability for pests (moths, beetles) get in or to run and hide from the bees, and they improve internal climate management. I hope this video will help to reduce the frustrations.
I keep a spray bottle (ala plant misting bottle) at hand ..... usually some spray chases the bees down long enough to situate the frames.
With the third variant you can smash the bees that are inside between the the sides of the frames when they get closer and eventually touch each other. The second variant is the best IMO
That's a possibility I've recognized but haven't seen it to be much of a problem in practice. At least the approach minimizes the surface area between which the bees can be trapped. I generally use a mix of approaches and actually do prefer to slide the frames in vertically, but sometimes the bees crowd in and make it impractical.
You can actually take put a couple few frames so you have more room. Good video to watch is. How to avoid smashing bees with layens behive frames by Suburban Sodbuster . Looks good so far. ;)
Thanks ! Smoke pisses my bees off (me too sometimes,) I have taken to useing a hawk feather (any will work) . Still challenging, but they go down. I can’t wait to try out your methods this spring. No Layens owners anywhere by me.
It's also been my experience that pre-emptively smoking the bees tends to put them on edge. I always light my smoker but try not to use it unless the bees get edgy. In my Layens hives it seems the bees will usually give me one pass through the hive without concern. If I go back through, for a second look, then they get tired of me. In the Langstroth hives they seem to get irritable more quickly.