I like him. In everything I see of his, he speaks gently, without judgment, and has knowledge. Some theologians just have this haughty attitude. This guy is cool, down to Earth, and really believes in what he says. I'm coming to a continuationist understanding of scripture. In part because of the interviews you guys are doing. I used the think of the miraculous and gifts as something that happened in the time of the apostles. I also used to be very judgy, unhappy, and have a very naturalistic view of the miraculous. But I'm also coming back from a very long period of being a backslider. Thank you for your videos. They are helpful.
I just discovered this channel recently and one of the shows I watched was the 8 hour NYE show where he was a guest. I didn't think I'd heard of him until I realised I owned the cultural background study Bible. I just bought his 2 volume book on miracles today also. I've found that the most knowledgeable people are also often the most humble and understand how much they still don't know. People with limited knowledge often think they know it all and come across as arrogant. I'm always seeking out guys like Dr Keener to learn from. Btw, great to hear you're back on track bro
@@bloodbased Except kindness, gentleness, humility are fruits of the Spirit. Also God created the Earth. Things turned bad, but Earth is not inherently bad 🤔🌏
That’s a good thing but he is exactly the scholar who appear to lose against Hitch or Carrier. It’s sad how people listen to the charismatic, forceful person and don’t have their BS discernment on. I like Craig Evans but in his debate with Carrier, Carrier appeared to win. Personally, love to listen to Dr. Keener teach and I applaud his Two volume Miracles books.
This is my first time being introduced to Mr. Keener and I am thoroughly impressed. With his delivery and the way I can tell he thinks before giving each answer. His Biblical references with exact Chapter and verse is out of this world. I pray I find more information on his teachings and all help me better understand the Holy Scriptures.
Love the content , excellent interview. I would just suggest that you allow the person being interviewed finish what they are saying before you jump back in.
I share Keener’s sentiments. In some sense, my bias is that I would rather be a cessationist. It’s just simpler and less messy. Yet, as hard as I’ve tried, and as much as I’ve exposed myself to the best arguments from that side, I cannot find cessationism established on the basis of Scripture alone. God bless all my brothers and sisters on both sides of this discussion :)
If the good news is to be shared- which goodnews is not about an alternative worldview- its about - life- transformation- , and as the church has been empowered at Pentecost, what possible reason could God's people in God's kingdom have for not embracing the manifestations of God's presence- in healing, and much much more? Yes it can get messy. But thats why the gifts of teaching and calls to maintain order exist. DIDACHE= for example, some very helpful inputs about prophets. I think Words of knowledge abound.. but most of us don't" recognise" them" in action "
I find these discussions incredibly interesting. I am preterist so I do think that tongues and prophecy ended with the destruction of the temple but God can do anything He wants at any time!
I share the following because, as someone who is described by some as a Preterist, I could not agree more with your comment that, “God can do anything He wants at any time”, especially if we are in “a new heaven and a new earth.” A Question Of Identity An id-iot is someone who does not know their true id-entity. They are not someone who lacks intelligence but someone who lacks comprehension of who they are. As a result the vacuum of ignorance is filled with condemnatory judgments of darkness that fall short of the glory of God. The Spirit of God our Father is in every member of humanity, past, present, and future, or they would never have drawn, or be drawing, or shall be drawing, breath. All the progeny of the first Adam are now beyond the curse of death thanks to the finished work and faith of the last Adam, although it is understood that the darkness of “the carnal mind* which is at emnity with God” cannot comprehend this truth and must find it unbelievable. The really good news is that Father, in His timing and wisdom is causing all of us, individually and corporately, to grow in the realization that mankind is One in Him, that we are One race and One family! I believe this will be transcendently enjoyed when each of us comes to the point where “this mortality must put on immortality.” However, we will continue to grow eternally in the knowledge and enjoyment of the character and expression of God, our Father, Who is without limit in power and love. Through the finished work and faith of Jesus, the Christ, the following is the true judgment of God on all of humanity: “This is my beloved Son in Whom I am well pleased.” Unsound words spawn false expressions that only engender confusion, disputation, division and strife. We would do well to heed Paul’s admonition in 2 Timothy 1:13, “Hold fast the form of sound words, which you have heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus”, and therefore bear with but graciously refuse all non-scriptural definitions and judgments of who we are - or who we might deem others to be. As God’s light and love is shed abroad in our hearts we grow in the realization of our inestimable individual and collective worth. We are His glory - to the glory of God. Peace. •carne = meat, carnal mind = meat head.
Let me assure you that the gift of tongues has not ceased. The Lord powerfully touched me 50 years ago, and I have had the privilege of praying and interceding in this miraculous gift since then. I am eternally grateful that the Lord has given me this gift.
White graciously flattened Brown on this topic. Waldron set up a checkmate on this topic in his opening statement of the debate. White got Brown to admit 1- charismatics needed to be less gullible 2- agree that Apostles / apostleship is not for today Will keener engage with white?
Wisdom with gentleness is essential in the Christian Life. "Be wise as a serpent, and harmless as a dove." Wisdom says Don't be duped, gentleness says Don't dupe others.
Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. -1 Corinthians 14:29 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. -1 Corinthians 14:31 I would differ on the point made in the video about 2 or three "prophesying." The two above verses are speaking of two different things. It does not say let two or three prophesy but "let the PROPHETS speak." A prophet is a ministry calling just like a pastor, evangelist, etc. Not everyone who prophesies is a prophet. The gift of prophecy is a gift of utterance like tongues and interpretation and verse 31 above clearly says you may all prophesy one by one. The gift of prophecy is for "edification, exhortation, and comfort" but prophets sometimes must speak judgement, instructions, or direction. It's just like all believers should witness but not every believer is called to the office of an evangelist. So "all may prophesy," but "let the prophets speak two or three."
I disagree on 1 important point regarding OT v NT prophecy. Before Pentecost the Holy Spirit did not dwell in the people of God. The Father Himself chose men as His prophets and came to them in very powerful and direct ways. It was literally impossible to miss it; if you had a word you knew it, and if you gave a false prophecy It was because you were blatantly lying. They were also tasked with mediating between God and the people directing the nation. Today, we have the Holy Spirit living on the inside, and He will speak to us subtly as we learn to hear His voice. He comes to people with open heaven visions or by sending angels every now and then, but by and large He is speaking to us through His spirit with impressions and this still small voice, and it’s intention is the edification exhortation of the body. Two completely different roles.
Funny thing: I open this video to listen from keener but when ever I see one guy with ear something... my focus is changing,unable to concentrate. 1st I thought ... that ear rings may be metal..if so heavy....why only one side...after some time i saw both ear.. is that plastic or ?...is that rings really push ear skin...etc... Why I am unable to concentrate....
There are no Apostolic gifts . We see Church gifts so the former argument is not valid . When Jesus ascended on high he led captivity captive and gave Gifts to men . Ephesians 4:8
Not that it is any less of a miracle but was the water icy cold that would preserve brain and other cells? I still believe it is a miracle but 8 hrs is a long time but look at Lazarus. Lol Wow! Yes we better believe in rising from the dead. Praise God!
They were a wicked generation because they saw signs and wonders and still wanted more.....give us one more and then we will beleive. Everyone in the interview believes in Jesus alone for salvation. The gifts of the Spirit are to edify the body of Christ.
Signs and wonders are for the edification of the church not for evangelical reasons. We preach Christ crucified those signs just follow as the spirit distributes. Jesus came to heal, restore and many other things not so people would have faith. But because he loved those people and came to set those who were in bondage free.
Jesus the perfect came, died and was resurrected. A few years later the Bible was sealed, it too being perfect. We don't need anything else because the Holy Spirit lives in our hearts. 95% of TH-cam prophets appear to be fake to me.
@@CieloVistaSoftware I don't know what you have seen, but it can be very hard to tell if something is genuine by just watching a few min video on youtube. But Dr Keener has written books about the evidence, so they are worth checking out if you are genuinely want to know the truth.
And what did Jesus send the disciples and others out to do amongst the public.. and, of course at his ascension say about the need for the disciples to wait until .......?
The problem here is that in Corinth there were those who thought they were prophets. That was as far as it went. Truly they only thought they were prophets. Paul knew they were full of it.
@@jeffengstrom8657 1 Cor 12:31, 1 Cor 14:1, and 1 Cor 14:39 This is where Paul addresses the church at Corinth on the spiritual gifts. I encourage you to just go read 1 Cor 12-14, and see what you think. There very well could be some valuable historical context I’m missing, but it seems clear to me that Paul is wanting us to desire all the spiritual gifts, especially prophecy. Corinth was a hyper charismatic church lol, and Paul was telling them how to use the gifts correctly. He didn’t say throw them out or that they would cease, but he said to desire them. 1 Thessalonians 5 Paul also tells the church at Thessalonica to not quench the Spirit and to not despise prophecy, but to test all things and hold fast to what is good. It seems to me that gifts continue and will continue until we are in heaven with Jesus (I think 1 Cor 13 says this)
@@joshuacody9231 I've spent the better part of my life on 1 Cor. 14. Some years nonstop, 24/7. I've written hundreds of pages on it. I would encourage you to read it. I'll just focus on 14:1. There Paul is exhorting us to desire "spirtuals" not specifically any "gift" but rather anything that purposes itself to be spirtual. Then he bottom lines it by adding "rather that ye may prophesy" This was a prophesying all could do. It was reiterating that which had already been revealed, nothing more.
I hate the rock & roll music intro, when I got saved I was a rock & roller I have 50 years of worshiping rock & roll, nobody had to tell me that my rock & roll had to go when I got saved, it was just a natural thing for me that the music I loved dearly had to go. I could post here many many rock songs that are about getting and doing the girl, my generation says this "Sex, Drugs, and Rock & Roll" which is the mantra of my generation. th-cam.com/video/hEYgLhGGdF8/w-d-xo.html is that how you worship bringing full-blown rock & roll into God's House? that is stereotypical osaser thing.
You think that a guitar riff and a rock and roll song about drugs are the same thing? I’m confused. Rock and roll may have hindered YOU but not everyone in the world. If simply hearing electric guitar is a sin trigger for you consider just skipping the intro.
@@stephen1503 2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 2Co 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 2Co 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. 1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 1Jn 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=rock-n-roll Here's a litte history for you all. Many people don't know that the term rock-n-roll was also a slang word for sex or sexual intercourse in the late 1940s and early 1950s. It was particularly used by teens or the younger people in those days I do not "think" I know rock & roll is of the devil, after 50+ years of listening to nothing but rock & roll, I know the music, and the lyrics, and the vast majority are about sex, drugs, alcohol rock & roll is of the devil, it is his creation, not God's. more often than not rock & roll is about getting and doing the girl, using drugs, and just plain rebellion. motley crue girl girls girls, sammy johns chevy van, steve miller the joker, rod stewerrt do ya think I'm sexy, led zeppelin black dog, mungo jerry in the summer time, guns and roses welcome to the jungle, van halen hot for teacher, van halen jamies cryin, def leopard pour some sugar, George thoroughgood bad to the bone, on and on I can go because I know thousands of these by heart. rock and roll is the devil's music, those are just a few off the top of my head over the top rock songs about getting and doing the girl and the devil is in every bit of that. and if that is not bad enough many rock songs have backward masking in them, which today is called reverse speech. queen "another one bites the dust" the chorus backward says "it's fun to smoke marijuana" th-cam.com/video/n6tnksyRygw/w-d-xo.html led zeppelin stairway to heaven backward there's no escaping it, nor his woes so here's to my sweet satan. th-cam.com/video/FNE75XznfIE/w-d-xo.html one of my all time favorite rock groups was pink floyd, and one of my all time favorite albums was Animals. These are the lyrics to "sheep" The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want He makes me down to lie Through pastures green He leadeth me the silent waters by. With bright knives He releaseth my soul. He maketh me to hang on hooks in high places. He converteth me to lamb cutlets, For lo, He hath great power, and great hunger. When cometh the day we lowly ones, Through quiet reflection, and great dedication Master the art of karate, Lo, we shall rise up, And then we'll make the bugger's eyes water. rock & roll is a teaching vehicle that teaches premarital sex (fornication) drug use, and rebellion. as someone who spent more than 50 years worshiping (the gods of rock & roll) yes the rock stars that have multiple hits are called rock gods or gods of rock & roll. those people who are heavy into rock love the music and have no intention of giving it up even if they profess to be Christians, they would rather keep their rock idol than to surrender all for Christ, those who do so will not be going in the rapture, and will probably take the mark of the beast because any sin or rebellion leads to more sin and rebellion. Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. the vast majority of rock music is antichrist According to the band's press officer, Derek Taylor, all four Beatles had abandoned their religious upbringings by 1964. In an interview for The Saturday Evening Post, in August of that year, he stated that the Beatles were "completely anti-Christ. the beatles "number nine" backward is "turn me on deadman" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_popular_than_Jesus "More popular than Jesus"[nb 1] is part of a remark made by John Lennon of the Beatles in a March 1966 interview, in which he argued that the public were more infatuated with the band than with Jesus, and that Christian faith was declining to the extent that it might be outlasted by rock music. His opinions drew no controversy when originally published in the London newspaper The Evening Standard, but drew angry reactions from Christian communities when republished in the United States that July. many "Christians" burned their records in America after that comment. the beatles were one of the first British bands to come to America and become insanely popular.
@@dennishagans6339 you side stepped my point. Are you comparing a GUITAR RIFF with music lyrics? That makes no sense. What should we only play organ music? What about devilish organ music LOL
@@stephen1503 I had written a reply and now it is gone, I made a copy so if this one disappears I will repost it. th-cam.com/video/auLz3ssCsdg/w-d-xo.html that is another reason why rock & roll is just wrong because the drummer didn't think about the type of song and imposed his rock-inspired drum solo ad-lib, and the young lady is standing there dumbfounded because the drummer couldn't play as per the type of worship song but just interjected his own thing hogging all attention on himself. th-cam.com/video/hEYgLhGGdF8/w-d-xo.html if you had watched the entire elevation opening night you would have seen that it was not just a guitar riff but they sang the actual Joan Jett lyrics and added some of their own with the riff. Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. the devil has musical instruments in his body, and when he fell he became totally corrupted and inspires corrupted music in men. www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=rock-n-roll Here's a little history for you all. Many people don't know that the term rock-n-roll was also a slang word for sex or sexual intercourse in the late 1940s and early 1950s. what a lovely thing to bring into God's house, music that its very name means sexual intercourse. when we refuse to give up the things of the world there is a name for it, it is called Idolatry.
@@dennishagans6339 God created music, the devil uses it for his own purposes. I know of people who were saved listening to Christian Rock music. Even the apostle Paul said that he became what others were in order to win them to Christ. It isn't the style or type of music that is wrong but rather the message. If Rock and Roll style music will lead people to Christ, then I am convinced that God approves.
Respectfully, the gifts that were given were temporary, due to the fact that the Bible wasn't completed. 1Cor13: tells that when the word is completed, all these gifts done in part, will be done away. The last actual experience of speaking in tongues was in 70AD and didnt resurface until around 1900. This new reoccurrence was not scriptual as there were no unbelieving Jews present, there weren't those who spoke different languages there from different countries and there was no interpreter. Also there were no cloves of fire descending on them. Also no one said they were amazed because they heard in their own language. Be careful in this time as there are many false teachers who are deceived and are deceiving. Go to God in prayer and ask Him for discernment, and He will guide you.
When Corinthians is referencing to prophecy ceasing and all these things coming to pass it’s referring to becoming unified with Christ and the things to come. And if your going off of Daniel’s prophecy of the church age being the establishment of the gifts coming to pass then your also incorrect because the church age doesn’t end to the beginning of tribulation and rapture.
@@blessthelordoflords5886 Their is now no need for these gifts as they were only temporary and done in part until the perfect is come. 1 Corinthians 13:8-12. And when doing these it was looking through a glass darkly, it was not the clear image of what would be the completed word. This is not talking about being unified with Christ as when referring to Christ, it is always in a masculine gender. This passage is in neutral gender and cannot be referring to unity in Christ. It is about ceasing of these gifts done in part and is definitely referring to the Word when completed. The written Bible is what this is referring to and is in a neutral gender. God does not want us to go "elsewhere other than His written completed word. When humans "receive" these gifts it ends up giving glory to those participating in ego and pride. It ends up a terrible disservice to God's Word. Kindly, it needs to be said that this is not a doctrine of God's work in this day and age. We don't need temporary helps because we have His Word. Only doing this to warn any one "experimenting" with this teaching that it is very dangerous and not from the true and living God. People do not hear tongues in their own foreign language. There is not an interpreter. The Corinthians was who these directions on tongues and gifts were not very holy; they were very sinful. These instructions were written TO them. For our benefit, but not written TO us. Just ask God for discernment and just do a little study and God will show you the truth. Thanks for listening
@@johnarnold3696 I appreciate your humility and hear the sincerity in your heart. I just disagree. The purpose of the gifts are for the edification of the church stated in 1 Corinthians 14:12. The church is ongoing and is still ongoing until Christ return. Addressing the fullfillment of gifts in 1 Corinthians 13:10 u quoted 1 Corinthians 13:12 “for now we see through a glass darkly” but u forget to mention the rest of the verse 1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. “Face to face” is a very useful part to define the context of this verse. With this being said we know that this fulfillment is referring to unification with a person not with a book, nor a church. But let’s say u were correct regardless, then we would have to understand also that when scripture is fulfilled it’s doesn’t mean it’s abolished but that it is expanded on. The same way jesus fullfilled the law as an example. Plus if your going by terms of sola scriptura then why would the early church canon consist of 1 Corinthians, Ephesians, and Romans if they were already fullfilled then they would have no need to be included after the Protestant reformation in the 16th century. Paul would write a book that commands u to seek spiritual gifts if it’s gonna cause to “receive another jesus, spirit, or ghospel” nor would he multiples letters with instructions if they were just gonna ceaze. All scripture is god breathed and Inspired. If u wanna beleive in cessationist doctrine that’s fine your not hellbound because of it. But I promise u their is a difference in fruits in the theological differences.
I like him. In everything I see of his, he speaks gently, without judgment, and has knowledge. Some theologians just have this haughty attitude. This guy is cool, down to Earth, and really believes in what he says. I'm coming to a continuationist understanding of scripture. In part because of the interviews you guys are doing. I used the think of the miraculous and gifts as something that happened in the time of the apostles. I also used to be very judgy, unhappy, and have a very naturalistic view of the miraculous. But I'm also coming back from a very long period of being a backslider. Thank you for your videos. They are helpful.
I just discovered this channel recently and one of the shows I watched was the 8 hour NYE show where he was a guest. I didn't think I'd heard of him until I realised I owned the cultural background study Bible. I just bought his 2 volume book on miracles today also.
I've found that the most knowledgeable people are also often the most humble and understand how much they still don't know. People with limited knowledge often think they know it all and come across as arrogant. I'm always seeking out guys like Dr Keener to learn from.
Btw, great to hear you're back on track bro
being Justified has nothing to do with gentle, nice, or down to earth
(come to think of it; what a satanic phrase that is...’down to earth’ 🤔🌎)
@@bloodbased Except kindness, gentleness, humility are fruits of the Spirit.
Also God created the Earth. Things turned bad, but Earth is not inherently bad 🤔🌏
That’s a good thing but he is exactly the scholar who appear to lose against Hitch or Carrier. It’s sad how people listen to the charismatic, forceful person and don’t have their BS discernment on. I like Craig Evans but in his debate with Carrier, Carrier appeared to win. Personally, love to listen to Dr. Keener teach and I applaud his Two volume Miracles books.
@@chriper77 amen…true fruit. Dr. Dallas Willard once was asked to describe Jeuss with one word and he said relaxed. Think about and it fits.
Guys you have to get these videos promoted. I think your channel should become among the top on TH-cam.
Ivan Lobanov thanks Ivan
Absolutely. Gotta get it up there!
Pro trick: you can watch movies on Flixzone. Been using them for watching loads of movies lately.
@Ray Ibrahim Definitely, I've been using Flixzone for months myself :)
@Ray Ibrahim yea, have been using flixzone for months myself =)
Craig Keener!!! I bought his IVP NT commentary for a friend. He's that good
So glad i found the RR. Love this Dr Keener guy. I just got his book he co-wrote with DR Drown "Not afraid of the anti-Christ"
The more of your videos I watch the more I love this ministry. Thanks.
This is my first time being introduced to Mr. Keener and I am thoroughly impressed. With his delivery and the way I can tell he thinks before giving each answer. His Biblical references with exact Chapter and verse is out of this world. I pray I find more information on his teachings and all help me better understand the Holy Scriptures.
I’m so excited for the Matt Chandler one!
Dr. Keener is the best!
Love the content , excellent interview. I would just suggest that you allow the person being interviewed finish what they are saying before you jump back in.
Thanks so very much 🙏✝️❤️
These are some great arguments . Thank you for this . Timely material
This guy is amazing
Awesome work
Ayush Lal thank you.
Love Dr.Keener
SO GRATEFUL!!!! THANK YOU, ALL!!!!
I share Keener’s sentiments. In some sense, my bias is that I would rather be a cessationist. It’s just simpler and less messy. Yet, as hard as I’ve tried, and as much as I’ve exposed myself to the best arguments from that side, I cannot find cessationism established on the basis of Scripture alone. God bless all my brothers and sisters on both sides of this discussion :)
If the good news is to be shared- which goodnews is not about an alternative worldview- its about - life- transformation- , and as the church has been empowered at Pentecost, what possible reason could God's people in God's kingdom have for not embracing the manifestations of God's presence- in healing, and much much more?
Yes it can get messy. But thats why the gifts of teaching and calls to maintain order exist. DIDACHE= for example, some very helpful inputs about prophets.
I think Words of knowledge abound.. but most of us don't" recognise" them" in action "
This was good. Thank you gentlemen.
The living word ...
So much more is being understood by many more.
45:10 Douglas Wilson was the name you were looking for. Doug's a great teacher. Hilarious moment in that conversation between him and Mark though.
I find these discussions incredibly interesting. I am preterist so I do think that tongues and prophecy ended with the destruction of the temple but God can do anything He wants at any time!
I share the following because, as someone who is described by some as a Preterist, I could not agree more with your comment that, “God can do anything He wants at any time”, especially if we are in “a new heaven and a new earth.”
A Question Of Identity
An id-iot is someone who does not know their true id-entity. They are not someone who lacks intelligence but someone who lacks comprehension of who they are. As a result the vacuum of ignorance is filled with condemnatory judgments of darkness that fall short of the glory of God.
The Spirit of God our Father is in every member of humanity, past, present, and future, or they would never have drawn, or be drawing, or shall be drawing, breath. All the progeny of the first Adam are now beyond the curse of death thanks to the finished work and faith of the last Adam, although it is understood that the darkness of “the carnal mind* which is at emnity with God” cannot comprehend this truth and must find it unbelievable.
The really good news is that Father, in His timing and wisdom is causing all of us, individually and corporately, to grow in the realization that mankind is One in Him, that we are One race and One family! I believe this will be transcendently enjoyed when each of us comes to the point where “this mortality must put on immortality.” However, we will continue to grow eternally in the knowledge and enjoyment of the character and expression of God, our Father, Who is without limit in power and love.
Through the finished work and faith of Jesus, the Christ, the following is the true judgment of God on all of humanity:
“This is my beloved Son in Whom I am well pleased.”
Unsound words spawn false expressions that only engender confusion, disputation, division and strife. We would do well to heed Paul’s admonition in 2 Timothy 1:13, “Hold fast the form of sound words, which you have heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus”, and therefore bear with but graciously refuse all non-scriptural definitions and judgments of who we are - or who we might deem others to be. As God’s light and love is shed abroad in our hearts we grow in the realization of our inestimable individual and collective worth.
We are His glory - to the glory of God.
Peace.
•carne = meat, carnal mind = meat head.
Let me assure you that the gift of tongues has not ceased. The Lord powerfully touched me 50 years ago, and I have had the privilege of praying and interceding in this miraculous gift since then. I am eternally grateful that the Lord has given me this gift.
And how did you find the comments on Words of knowledge, and how these regularly manifest(even where unrecognised as such ?)
Dr. Keener
Facts
White graciously flattened Brown on this topic. Waldron set up a checkmate on this topic in his opening statement of the debate. White got Brown to admit
1- charismatics needed to be less gullible
2- agree that Apostles / apostleship is not for today
Will keener engage with white?
Wisdom with gentleness is essential in the Christian Life. "Be wise as a serpent, and harmless as a dove." Wisdom says Don't be duped, gentleness says Don't dupe others.
I'd prefer to take the rism and confess if I'm wrong. That's the faith of a child, but I don't diss what you're doing.
At 6:55 the host says argument of Paul - can you say what scripture this references?
Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. -1 Corinthians 14:29
For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. -1 Corinthians 14:31
I would differ on the point made in the video about 2 or three "prophesying." The two above verses are speaking of two different things. It does not say let two or three prophesy but "let the PROPHETS speak." A prophet is a ministry calling just like a pastor, evangelist, etc. Not everyone who prophesies is a prophet. The gift of prophecy is a gift of utterance like tongues and interpretation and verse 31 above clearly says you may all prophesy one by one. The gift of prophecy is for "edification, exhortation, and comfort" but prophets sometimes must speak judgement, instructions, or direction. It's just like all believers should witness but not every believer is called to the office of an evangelist.
So "all may prophesy," but "let the prophets speak two or three."
I disagree on 1 important point regarding OT v NT prophecy. Before Pentecost the Holy Spirit did not dwell in the people of God. The Father Himself chose men as His prophets and came to them in very powerful and direct ways. It was literally impossible to miss it; if you had a word you knew it, and if you gave a false prophecy It was because you were blatantly lying. They were also tasked with mediating between God and the people directing the nation. Today, we have the Holy Spirit living on the inside, and He will speak to us subtly as we learn to hear His voice. He comes to people with open heaven visions or by sending angels every now and then, but by and large He is speaking to us through His spirit with impressions and this still small voice, and it’s intention is the edification exhortation of the body. Two completely different roles.
That racket music at the beginning is awful.
@Benny Nunn play nice
I'm in my 30s and I agree that the music is a bit much
Pity its not Brahm's 5th racket!
Funny thing: I open this video to listen from keener but when ever I see one guy with ear something... my focus is changing,unable to concentrate.
1st I thought ... that ear rings may be metal..if so heavy....why only one side...after some time i saw both ear.. is that plastic or ?...is that rings really push ear skin...etc...
Why I am unable to concentrate....
Any way jokes a side.... great content...dr. Keener is great...thanks guys for this video..
There are no Apostolic gifts . We see Church gifts so the former argument is not valid . When Jesus ascended on high he led captivity captive and gave Gifts to men . Ephesians 4:8
Not that it is any less of a miracle but was the water icy cold that would preserve brain and other cells? I still believe it is a miracle but 8 hrs is a long time but look at Lazarus. Lol Wow!
Yes we better believe in rising from the dead. Praise God!
All you people are like the jews who needs sign and wonders which god gave them in the bible but we have everything we need in jesus christ.
They were a wicked generation because they saw signs and wonders and still wanted more.....give us one more and then we will beleive. Everyone in the interview believes in Jesus alone for salvation. The gifts of the Spirit are to edify the body of Christ.
Signs and wonders are for the edification of the church not for evangelical reasons. We preach Christ crucified those signs just follow as the spirit distributes. Jesus came to heal, restore and many other things not so people would have faith. But because he loved those people and came to set those who were in bondage free.
Jesus the perfect came, died and was resurrected. A few years later the Bible was sealed, it too being perfect. We don't need anything else because the Holy Spirit lives in our hearts. 95% of TH-cam prophets appear to be fake to me.
@@CieloVistaSoftware I don't know what you have seen, but it can be very hard to tell if something is genuine by just watching a few min video on youtube. But Dr Keener has written books about the evidence, so they are worth checking out if you are genuinely want to know the truth.
And what did Jesus send the disciples and others out to do amongst the public.. and, of course at his ascension say about the need for the disciples to wait until .......?
People of God, please stop using the term "Continuationist." Convenient, but offensive to the Spirit, I would think. IDK.
So, this explains why Paul from Fighting for the Faith is not a fan of your channel.
The problem here is that in Corinth there were those who thought they were prophets. That was as far as it went. Truly they only thought they were prophets. Paul knew they were full of it.
Then why did he tell them to earnestly desire prophecy?
@@joshuacody9231 To which verse are you referring?
@@jeffengstrom8657 1 Cor 12:31, 1 Cor 14:1, and 1 Cor 14:39
This is where Paul addresses the church at Corinth on the spiritual gifts. I encourage you to just go read 1 Cor 12-14, and see what you think. There very well could be some valuable historical context I’m missing, but it seems clear to me that Paul is wanting us to desire all the spiritual gifts, especially prophecy. Corinth was a hyper charismatic church lol, and Paul was telling them how to use the gifts correctly. He didn’t say throw them out or that they would cease, but he said to desire them.
1 Thessalonians 5 Paul also tells the church at Thessalonica to not quench the Spirit and to not despise prophecy, but to test all things and hold fast to what is good.
It seems to me that gifts continue and will continue until we are in heaven with Jesus (I think 1 Cor 13 says this)
@@joshuacody9231 I've spent the better part of my life on 1 Cor. 14. Some years nonstop, 24/7. I've written hundreds of pages on it. I would encourage you to read it. I'll just focus on 14:1. There Paul is exhorting us to desire "spirtuals" not specifically any "gift" but rather anything that purposes itself to be spirtual. Then he bottom lines it by adding "rather that ye may prophesy" This was a prophesying all could do. It was reiterating that which had already been revealed, nothing more.
@@jeffengstrom8657 🤙
I hate the rock & roll music intro, when I got saved I was a rock & roller I have 50 years of worshiping rock & roll, nobody had to tell me that my rock & roll had to go when I got saved, it was just a natural thing for me that the music I loved dearly had to go.
I could post here many many rock songs that are about getting and doing the girl, my generation says this "Sex, Drugs, and Rock & Roll" which is the mantra of my generation.
th-cam.com/video/hEYgLhGGdF8/w-d-xo.html
is that how you worship bringing full-blown rock & roll into God's House? that is stereotypical osaser thing.
You think that a guitar riff and a rock and roll song about drugs are the same thing? I’m confused. Rock and roll may have hindered YOU but not everyone in the world. If simply hearing electric guitar is a sin trigger for you consider just skipping the intro.
@@stephen1503
2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
2Co 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
2Co 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Jn 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=rock-n-roll
Here's a litte history for you all. Many people don't know that the term rock-n-roll was also a slang word for sex or sexual intercourse in the late 1940s and early 1950s. It was particularly used by teens or the younger people in those days
I do not "think" I know rock & roll is of the devil, after 50+ years of listening to nothing but rock & roll, I know the music, and the lyrics, and the vast majority are about sex, drugs, alcohol
rock & roll is of the devil, it is his creation, not God's.
more often than not rock & roll is about getting and doing the girl, using drugs, and just plain rebellion.
motley crue girl girls girls, sammy johns chevy van, steve miller the joker, rod stewerrt do ya think I'm sexy, led zeppelin black dog, mungo jerry in the summer time, guns and roses welcome to the jungle, van halen hot for teacher, van halen jamies cryin, def leopard pour some sugar, George thoroughgood bad to the bone, on and on I can go because I know thousands of these by heart. rock and roll is the devil's music,
those are just a few off the top of my head over the top rock songs about getting and doing the girl and the devil is in every bit of that.
and if that is not bad enough many rock songs have backward masking in them, which today is called reverse speech.
queen "another one bites the dust" the chorus backward says "it's fun to smoke marijuana"
th-cam.com/video/n6tnksyRygw/w-d-xo.html
led zeppelin stairway to heaven backward there's no escaping it, nor his woes so here's to my sweet satan.
th-cam.com/video/FNE75XznfIE/w-d-xo.html
one of my all time favorite rock groups was pink floyd, and one of my all time favorite albums was Animals.
These are the lyrics to "sheep"
The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want
He makes me down to lie
Through pastures green He leadeth me the silent waters by.
With bright knives He releaseth my soul.
He maketh me to hang on hooks in high places.
He converteth me to lamb cutlets,
For lo, He hath great power, and great hunger.
When cometh the day we lowly ones,
Through quiet reflection, and great dedication
Master the art of karate,
Lo, we shall rise up,
And then we'll make the bugger's eyes water.
rock & roll is a teaching vehicle that teaches premarital sex (fornication) drug use, and rebellion. as someone who spent more than 50 years worshiping (the gods of rock & roll) yes the rock stars that have multiple hits are called rock gods or gods of rock & roll.
those people who are heavy into rock love the music and have no intention of giving it up even if they profess to be Christians, they would rather keep their rock idol than to surrender all for Christ, those who do so will not be going in the rapture, and will probably take the mark of the beast because any sin or rebellion leads to more sin and rebellion.
Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
the vast majority of rock music is antichrist
According to the band's press officer, Derek Taylor, all four Beatles had abandoned their religious upbringings by 1964. In an interview for The Saturday Evening Post, in August of that year, he stated that the Beatles were "completely anti-Christ.
the beatles "number nine" backward is "turn me on deadman"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_popular_than_Jesus
"More popular than Jesus"[nb 1] is part of a remark made by John Lennon of the Beatles in a March 1966 interview, in which he argued that the public were more infatuated with the band than with Jesus, and that Christian faith was declining to the extent that it might be outlasted by rock music. His opinions drew no controversy when originally published in the London newspaper The Evening Standard, but drew angry reactions from Christian communities when republished in the United States that July.
many "Christians" burned their records in America after that comment.
the beatles were one of the first British bands to come to America and become insanely popular.
@@dennishagans6339 you side stepped my point. Are you comparing a GUITAR RIFF with music lyrics? That makes no sense. What should we only play organ music? What about devilish organ music LOL
@@stephen1503
I had written a reply and now it is gone, I made a copy so if this one disappears I will repost it.
th-cam.com/video/auLz3ssCsdg/w-d-xo.html
that is another reason why rock & roll is just wrong because the drummer didn't think about the type of song and imposed his rock-inspired drum solo ad-lib, and the young lady is standing there dumbfounded because the drummer couldn't play as per the type of worship song but just interjected his own thing hogging all attention on himself.
th-cam.com/video/hEYgLhGGdF8/w-d-xo.html
if you had watched the entire elevation opening night you would have seen that it was not just a guitar riff but they sang the actual Joan Jett lyrics and added some of their own with the riff.
Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
the devil has musical instruments in his body, and when he fell he became totally corrupted and inspires corrupted music in men.
www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=rock-n-roll
Here's a little history for you all. Many people don't know that the term rock-n-roll was also a slang word for sex or sexual intercourse in the late 1940s and early 1950s.
what a lovely thing to bring into God's house, music that its very name means sexual intercourse.
when we refuse to give up the things of the world there is a name for it, it is called Idolatry.
@@dennishagans6339 God created music, the devil uses it for his own purposes. I know of people who were saved listening to Christian Rock music. Even the apostle Paul said that he became what others were in order to win them to Christ. It isn't the style or type of music that is wrong but rather the message. If Rock and Roll style music will lead people to Christ, then I am convinced that God approves.
🤣🤣🤣🤣 The Fresh Testament aka The Fresh Prints of Bel-Air.
Respectfully, the gifts that were given were temporary, due to the fact that the Bible wasn't completed. 1Cor13: tells that when the word is completed, all these gifts done in part, will be done away. The last actual experience of speaking in tongues was in 70AD and didnt resurface until around 1900. This new reoccurrence was not scriptual as there were no unbelieving Jews present, there weren't those who spoke different languages there from different countries and there was no interpreter. Also there were no cloves of fire descending on them. Also no one said they were amazed because they heard in their own language. Be careful in this time as there are many false teachers who are deceived and are deceiving. Go to God in prayer and ask Him for discernment, and He will guide you.
When Corinthians is referencing to prophecy ceasing and all these things coming to pass it’s referring to becoming unified with Christ and the things to come. And if your going off of Daniel’s prophecy of the church age being the establishment of the gifts coming to pass then your also incorrect because the church age doesn’t end to the beginning of tribulation and rapture.
@@blessthelordoflords5886 Their is now no need for these gifts as they were only temporary and done in part until the perfect is come. 1 Corinthians 13:8-12. And when doing these it was looking through a glass darkly, it was not the clear image of what would be the completed word. This is not talking about being unified with Christ as when referring to Christ, it is always in a masculine gender. This passage is in neutral gender and cannot be referring to unity in Christ. It is about ceasing of these gifts done in part and is definitely referring to the Word when completed. The written Bible is what this is referring to and is in a neutral gender. God does not want us to go "elsewhere other than His written completed word. When humans "receive" these gifts it ends up giving glory to those participating in ego and pride. It ends up a terrible disservice to God's Word. Kindly, it needs to be said that this is not a doctrine of God's work in this day and age. We don't need temporary helps because we have His Word. Only doing this to warn any one "experimenting" with this teaching that it is very dangerous and not from the true and living God. People do not hear tongues in their own foreign language. There is not an interpreter. The Corinthians was who these directions on tongues and gifts were not very holy; they were very sinful. These instructions were written TO them. For our benefit, but not written TO us. Just ask God for discernment and just do a little study and God will show you the truth. Thanks for listening
@@johnarnold3696 I appreciate your humility and hear the sincerity in your heart. I just disagree. The purpose of the gifts are for the edification of the church stated in 1 Corinthians 14:12. The church is ongoing and is still ongoing until Christ return. Addressing the fullfillment of gifts in 1 Corinthians 13:10 u quoted 1 Corinthians 13:12 “for now we see through a glass darkly” but u forget to mention the rest of the verse
1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
“Face to face” is a very useful part to define the context of this verse. With this being said we know that this fulfillment is referring to unification with a person not with a book, nor a church. But let’s say u were correct regardless, then we would have to understand also that when scripture is fulfilled it’s doesn’t mean it’s abolished but that it is expanded on. The same way jesus fullfilled the law as an example. Plus if your going by terms of sola scriptura then why would the early church canon consist of 1 Corinthians, Ephesians, and Romans if they were already fullfilled then they would have no need to be included after the Protestant reformation in the 16th century. Paul would write a book that commands u to seek spiritual gifts if it’s gonna cause to “receive another jesus, spirit, or ghospel” nor would he multiples letters with instructions if they were just gonna ceaze. All scripture is god breathed and Inspired. If u wanna beleive in cessationist doctrine that’s fine your not hellbound because of it. But I promise u their is a difference in fruits in the theological differences.
Continuationism is nothing more than Biblical revisionism.
Stop