Strongest Arguments For The Gifts of the Spirit: With Sam Storms
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
- Strongest Arguments For The Gifts of the Spirit: With Sam Storms
In this episode, Sam Storms comes back on Remnant to discuss the strongest arguments for the Gifts of the Spirit. We tackle 1 Corinthians 13. For our discussion on arguments presented by cessationists, please click here: • Crushing Cessationist ... .
___________________________________________________________________________________
Josh Lewis' Church Kings Fellowship Church
kingsfellowshi...
___________________________________________________________________________________
Michael Miller's Church Reclamation Church
reclamationden...
____________________________________________________________________________
Kairos Classroom: Use Promo Code Remnant for 10% off
kairosclassroo...
The strongest argument is actually seeing them in action. Tongues is always the one everyone goes to and have big discussion about it, one way or the other, but (not to blaspheme the Holy Ghost) I'm talking about ones that couldn't be faked even if you tried. A Word of Knowledge whispered in your ear about something specific (very much not general), that no one even close to you could possibly know about, from someone who you've never met before in your life, at a church you've never been before in your life, clears up any doubt pretty quick. As will gifts of healing, and not just for pain (though, glory to God, I have some personal deliverance there too). It might be hard to believe until you see it or experience it, but once you do... This stuff is real and the gifts of the Spirit are active where the Fruits of the Spirit are active.
I think the reason that people immediately talk about speaking in tongues when referring to miraculous gifts is because it is the most easily faked or self-delusional one. Telling an object to move from here to there and it obeying you is an extremely clear example of a faith-based ability in action. But randomly breaking into speaking absolute gibberish for a couple of minutes is easy for just about anyone to do.
What's not easy to do in terms of speaking in tongues is actually speaking in a foreign language that someone else understands which should be the entire purpose of speaking in tongues and is the exact example we see with the first century church, as opposed to the common modern example we see of people's supposedly speaking in tongues where they just speak absolute gibberish and call it a "spiritual" or "heavenly" language
I've been a tongue speaker for 30 years but my perpspective has been broadened lately. God showed me that whatever side of this issue you land on, there is a demon spirit sent into this issue to cause God's People to battle among themselves, and thereby decreasing our effectiveness in winning the lost to Christ WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE ALL SUPPOSED TO DO. We can't let the devil keep using this least of the gifts to tear up the church of God. Let's study our bibles, witness to the lost, and get along with our brothers and sisters, even those who we disagree with on this.
Im a cessationist at the moment but this is helpful for my study
Correction was a cessationist 😂
my favorite thing about Remnant Radio is just how much Josh and Michael are able to kindly have conversations with those they disagree with. True maturity displayed by these dudes.
I 💯 believe in the gifts of the spirit! The Lord has give me a gift. This happened when I got saved and after praying & asking in Jesus name. The Lord gives me dreams and visions. This is truly amazing. I know this will sounds crazy for those that don’t believe. Praise God!!!!
Men Thank you for providing this teaching but I must admit I was disappointed by some of the ‘gloating’ over the weaker arguments of our ‘cessationist’ brothers vs the stronger arguments of our ‘continuist’ brothers. Let’s all strive to honor one another with godly love: 1 Peter 2:17 and John 13:35.
I am enjoying these discussions. I am not 100% on continuation yet, but I lean towards that thinking. The arguments here make sense.
As always this was a fantastic discussion with Sam Storms. 👍🏾
Just bought beginners guide to spiritual gifts yesterday! Really looking forward to reading!
“Chronological snobbery”! Loved it. That’s exactly the problem!
This was great! Thank you for all y'alls hard work. I love your channel ❤
They also throw in 2nd Corinthians 11:4 to strengthen the case that these gifts in the way they are used today are counterfeit and not of God.
I'm chuckling here, because I agree with Sam -- the single best argument for continuationism is that we don't have a good argument *against* it. As people of the Word, when God has promised us something and told us that He works in a particular manner, we have to have compelling reason if we're going to believe something meaningfully changed. And I just don't see any.
I believe Mark 16 can be a continuationist argument not from Scripture but history. Perhaps early Christian copyists introduced the variant but based off observation, this would refute the idea that the gifts were only with the apostles or that early Christians during the Church fathers were cessationists.
Excellent point. The scribe who introduced that variant (and the early Christians who accepted it) certainly did not believe that the “sign” gifts were limited to the apostles or the First Century as a whole. Though not Scripture, it’s definitely a point in favor of Continuationism.
When the "extremists" of tongues use the same passages to defend gibberish speaking, (Example praying over someone and saying shabbat dah shfffttt dahh shmah) What is a way to present the word to clarify biblical tongues?
It actually says in 1 Corinthians 14 (I encourage you to read this scripture) that the speaking of tongues only edifies himself/herself, that you speak not to men but to God. So it is best for your personal time with the Father. It says that only the speaker benefits, UNLESS provided someone with the gift of interpretation to help the unbeliever in the church to understand. So I suggest you use that scripture on the extremist who "yabadabadoo"s around out loud without an interpreter lol. Because that practice actually goes against scripture.
I've been continuationist most of my life -- even though I grew up in a cessationist Baptist church. I just can't see cessationism supported in scripture. One thing I am learning is that Acts is the story of how the church developed in the first generation -- not necessarily a blueprint for church practice past that. For me that can mean that I should not think that Acts' accounts of the use of spiritual gifts are models or templates for me or my church (e.g. we don't hold all material possessions common). The Holy Spirit will do what He will do to lead us into all truth and help us fulfill the GC -- including the use of spiritual gifts to confirm the truth and equip the saints.
These discussions always seem theoretical and never really get to the "and this is what it looks like in practice"...this is important because I think the correct practice of gifts narrows the gap between the two theoretical camps. Having been in charismatic and non-charismatic churches, it seems to me that much contemporary charismatic practice is wishful thinking with no substantive prophecy or healing - just people agreeing to suspend their critical faculty for a group trip...I have sat and listened to people spiritualise that the litter blowing in the street is a prophetic image...to nods, ahhs and not one ounce of testing or suggestion that they are elevating their imagination way above its pay grade. Whereas cessationists perhaps deny themselves the contemporary comfort of recognising the Holy Spirit at work in the church to both conform the individual and edify the whole. Whatever the cessationist self-congratulationists think they win in theological argument, they lose in any study of contemporary practice. Both sides needs a better lens.
This might be what you're looking for-
Go to TRR's "playlist" page, find the "Gifts of the Spirit" playlist. It's 40 videos at the moment, and there all resit good. Some videos which I recall really get down to brass tacks are -testing the prophecies -word of wisdom and knowledge -5 steps -Q&As -Edwards
Also the playlist on demons- those episodes are good.
Those might get you started on the less theoretical stuff.
Both of the above two comments are excellent. I agree completely that almost no one talks about the practical step-by-step aspects of actually performing any of these miraculous abilities. People love to talk about speaking in tongues because it's the one that is so vague anyone can fake it or self-delude themselves into thinking they're doing something miraculous.
But it's very hard to fake the telekinetic ones that we should be talking about which are on-command healing of other people from obvious illness or broken bones etc, and the gift of telekinetic ability in terms of moving objects from here to there, like in the examples of moving the mountain, withering the fig tree, or telling a tree to uproot itself and plant itself in the sea and it obeying us if we believe without doubting (aka faith)
I just ordered D. A. Carson’s book titled Showing the Spirit which will help me in the area of spiritual gifts.
The understanding of the mystery (typology) is absolutely necessary.
The PURPOSE of the shed blood was to sanctify the tabernacle and the VESSELS of ministry so that the Presence of God (Holy Spirit) can inhabit the Tabernacle. That's us the Church.
Hebrews 9 & 10
As I'm sitting here watching/listening, and hearing y'all talk about Pentecost, it occurs to me there's *another* "timestamp" that's given to us indirectly in Scripture that I hadn't ever thought about before in this context -- the fulfillment of the Feasts. If the Holy Spirit was poured out on the Church at Latter Firstfruits/Feast of Weeks (which is the case), then it seems to me we should expect that to be the last significant change until that which the *Autumn* feasts represent. Probably Tabernacles, which is the last of the agricultural feasts (a.k.a. Feast of Ingathering), but possibly the start of that Festal season. Which is consistent with the ordinary Continuationist interpretation of 1 Cor. 13.
Excellent as usual guys!
I've watched quite a few of these cessationism versus continuationism debates and I suspect it's a lot simpler than all of these lengthy debates are making it out to be:
I think it comes down to the lack of a specific type of faith.
The type of faith that most human beings on the planet are low on or are missing. That type of faith is: belief without doubt. Humans fundamentally struggle with that type of faith. And I think that's why we don't see the gifts in operation in the majority of people. And I must specifically point out that I am not referring to the idea of gibberish speaking in tongues, which I find to be an incredibly impractical gift and one that is too easy to self-delude oneself into thinking they are doing. The only interest I have in speaking in tongues would be to literally be speaking in a foreign language that someone else can benefit from. But the gifts of telekinetic ability, which include moving objects from here to there or influencing matter at a distance, as in healing, are of immense interest as those can be used for practical purposes and are quite profound and very hard to deny
Hi there i am a continuist, here in Mexico, the best argument for cessationism i see people use, is Hebrews 1 used this way
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
So now he talks through His Son not through prophets, so now there arent any prophets because now he speaks through his son, meaning the bible, id like to see some pushback on that argument
You mentioned the cessationists respond with crickets to I Cor 13:10. You failed to mention the common exegetical problem cessationists point out. I Cor 13:10 says, "When the perfect comes [Christ's 2nd Coming] the partial will be done away." Spiritual gifts are not called "partial." The revelation they produce is partial. This is supported by "see through a glass dimply." This text has nothing to say about the duration of gifts, but the duration of an incomplete image of God due to incomplete revelation. When we see Christ our knowledge will be perfect (though not exhaustive). This text is not a promise of continuationism or cessationism.
No need to complicate things, the fruits of the spirit are directly listed in galatians 5: 22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Those are fruits of the spirit, in other words the behaviors that one exemplifies as they grow. You are conflating them with miraculous spiritual gifts which is an entirely separate thing
One of the texts Sam uses is Ephesians 4:11-12 which talks about apostles, prophets, evangelists, etc being given until the church is fully built up. I see his logic, but wouldn’t that also require there to be apostles today as well?
Yes. But apostles establish the church in mainly unreached areas. If you’re looking for modern apostles I would look to the underground church in the Middle East
I used to pray in tongues all the time, until Cessationists robbed me of my faith, and I have struggled to get it back ever since. Pray for me that I can step out in faith again, and trust God that the words I am praying are meaningful to him, and that it is edifying for my spirit.
😂😂😂😂😂
More important than anything else, is your relationship with Jesus Christ. Work on that most importantly.
There is a real danger in desiring spiritual gifts before the relationship is established.
21:00. I have a problem with "The Age of the Spirit" moniker because the Spirit did not come to glorify Himself. He came to glorify Christ. And Yes, the Spirit is God as well. But our King is Jesus. And that is because He is our mediator. Everything should point to Him.
Forbid them not!
Your thoughts on Graham Cooke please? His books on prophecy are international viewed as fundamental for the prophetic ministry. Maybe You can have him as a guest on the show?
Thanx, Gentlemen 🌹🌲🌹
Is there a good resource to find carful continuastionist churches?
I agree would love to have a list of churches across the country. Where are you currently Brother maybe someone may know here that can help
@@andreso9595 right now I’m in Seattle but will be moving to the Tulsa Oklahoma area very soon.
@@grind2138 Dr Sam Storms church is called Bridgeway Church in OKC . Maybe they know of a community closer to the Tulsa area
Great talk. Have you ever had people like Steve Mcvey or Paul Young or Baxter Kruger on your broadcast?
7 so that you are not lacking in any gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 8 who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Corinthians 1:7-8
Are the gifts lasting until Christ second coming? Does thats not include the Corinthians as well because it says that will sustain them to the end? How is that referring only to gifts but not to them as well? Can you explain me that?
There are a number of Jack Deere affirmations that are not found in Scripture. And yes I've read his book.
I think many cessationists think so for fear of looking weird.
I think many continuationists think so for fear of not looking weird.
What do you and your guests say to those who say things like tongues and healings were sign gifts that were ended by the end of the book of Acts. For example, Paul could heal anyone in the early part of Acts but couldn't even pray his way out of jail at the end of Acts. THey also point out that after Acts, instead of healing, Paul left a friend of his home sick. They use 1st Corinthians 1:22 and 14:22 to say that tongues were a sign strictly for the jews and strictly during the early church. Your response?
Ok, what I have to say is not relevant to the conversation- although it’s a great episode, loved it.
Does anyone else notice how Michael Roundtree answers “Mmmm Hmmm” in the same tone/key/timing every episode 😆 you should record that, and play it at the touch of a button when there are episodes where he’s gone and agree/answer your guests with it. It would be funny.
I assume there will also be a video “Strongest Arguments for Cessationism” right? Or else this seems very narrow sighted…
Jesus said that many will come to Him on that day saying that they casted out demons and healed the sick and prophesied yet He'll tell them to depart. The text we know in Matthew, is in reference to the judgement and how many will use the miracles they performed in His name, as a means of justifying why they should go to heaven, rather than relying on the death and resurrection of Christ. Many cessationists will use that verse and say "that sounds just like the charismatics" in the sense to say that all charismatics are damned because of miracles performed in the name of Christ, but the reality it wasn't the miracles that damned the people in the verse, it was the way they used them, it was the fact that they used works of miracles as a means of their salvation rather than the work of Christ, not to mention the implication that they lived a secret life as they are also called "workers of iniquity" or "workers of lawlessness".
This verse by far is one of the best, if not the best, evidence of scripture that shows that the Gifts of the Spirit will continue until the day Christ returns, but it also tells us to be careful, that we should truly live for Christ, in both our open and private life, but also not to use the Gifts of the Spirit as a way of saying "I'm going to heaven because I have the gift(s) of...."
We are saved by grace through faith, the only gift that is required for being saved, is the Holy Spirit Himself, Whom is given to someone at the moment of salvation.
I agree with much of what you wrote, but I think it's important to add a distinction to what you wrote. And that is that those people were not being turned away because they had those miraculous gifts, or trusted in those gifts, but rather it was the fact that they did not do charitable acts towards even the least of Jesus's brothers and sisters. That's what Jesus describes. He describes the people that he's accepting. The people he's accepting did those charitable acts. And then he describes the people he's rejecting. The people he's rejecting are people who declined to do those charitable acts over the course of their lives. I think there's a lot of people within Christendom who avoid doing works because they are extremely "faith alone" in terms of their beliefs. But we know that James corrects that and says that it is faith plus works that saves. The works themselves are not what saves you. The grace of God is what saves you. And faith takes hold of that grace, but works activate it and bring it to life
Great discussion!
Can somebody give me their opinion on what is the best/first Dr. Storms book to read?
I personally love his comprehensive guide to gifts. But his book on tongues is also my favorite book on tongues out there.
Paul does say "As for tongues. they shall Cease... In 1Cor 11/12 If you still believe in the Gifts of the holy spirit then you must be able to do all the miracles the apostles did as well as raising the dead!!!!!!! I've never seen anyone doing that must be a bit too difficult Isuppose
Where can I buy the Book Convergence ? Im from the Philippines by the way
No, 1 Corinthians 13 is a defense of cessationism not continuationism. Word study on the Greek verbs will draw that out.
I disagree. But I will say that if we pretend that you are right, then there is one type of gift that is specifically not in that list made by Paul and it is the telekinetic "moving mountains"/influencing matter at a distance, faith-based, belief without doubt ability.
Jesus expounded upon that and said that was available to his disciples, and then he told his disciples to teach whatsoever he taught them to others, which means us.
So the bottom line is, when Jesus repetitively listed examples of telling a mountain to move from here to there, or turning to a fig tree and withering it, or telling a tree to uproot itself and plant itself into the sea, and that if we believe without doubting, it will obey us and will be done for us, then that applies to us and that particular ability / gift did not cease.
But the caveat to that, and why most people are not doing these things, is because faith is measured in size, or rather, degree of faith.
Jesus likens it to a mustard seed at one point. He said that if you have faith the size of a mustard seed you could perform some pretty spectacular actions. Unfortunately, what that means is, is he's essentially saying that our faith is so microscopic it's not even up to the level of being the size of a mustard seed, metaphorically speaking. This is why he talked so much about faith and increasing your faith. If our faith is not a matter of degree he would not talk about increasing the size or quantity of it.
Even though people walked with Jesus, and watched him doing miracles, many of them telekinetic, as in, influencing matter at a distance, whether that be a human in terms of healing them or whether it be withering a fig tree, many still lacked faith in these things. And they were being done right in front of their faces! And even after they were completed, and he explained how to do it, they still doubted! How much more so will our modern people doubt when they don't even have someone walking around doing these things and they've explained it all the way with cessationism.
So what I'm saying is, I think the gifts and abilities are still there, but they are accessed through a certain degree of grown faith, and that level of faith is uncommonly rare to find in most human beings on the planet today.
I will say that any person that disbelief that tongues or any of the spiritual gifts don't exist. That person is not fill with the holy spirit. There are an unbeliever. Point blank
You guys need to study the teachings of Peter Ruckman and Hugh Pyle and then redo this video because you're not coming anywhere near countering their information. (see below)
Where Can I Buy Convergence Book ?
Sorry to disagree but you don't need to add ANY MIRACLE to the gospel. Minute 9 NO NO NO.... that's your opinion. And you cite Piper not the Bible for support. What a joke.
It's probably a fair bit of work but can you do one based on what the early church fathers said on the gifts of the Holy Spirit?
th-cam.com/video/QBpZGIAT6qw/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/URKrdroLWCc/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/1TTXaQbfKj0/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/qG_jtvBRODI/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/IQa-YmMlUjw/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/r9nkmcVvZIA/w-d-xo.html
I think that might be all. :)
@@VeryBasicBible thanks BJ
We have already done a few on church history and the gifts. BJ had linked them below.
At 10:25 what do you mean by other purposes?
1 Cor. 1:7 tells the Corinthians they had what they needed not that they had all the gifts. Certainly they never had tongues.
The transition in the church from the Apostolic era to that of the Church as an institution by the time of Augustine and Constantine took the flow of ministry from all the members of the Body of Christ and institutionalized the ministry work if the Body of Christ within the new Class of a professional Clergy. The Church subsequently lost much of it's spiritual power. The Pentecostal revival began a process of restoring that dynamic to the "laity". The Body of Christ is greatly enabled in fulfilling the Mission of the Church. That is one of the primary purposes of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit upon all flesh.
pentecostalism was founded by women. it’s no wonder pentecostalism is latent with heresy. why isn’t the Spirit being poured out on sound doctrinal teachers rather than heretics
with all due respect sirs, you totally Strawman the Cessationist perspectives. I'm not one but your mischaracterization is not fair. I suggest you watch and listen to an interview between JMac and Phil Johnson and draw from their discussion the correct definition of the Cessationist position.
In what way?
What are your experiences with the true gifts?
I have been baptized in the holy spirit with speaking in tongues since I was 14. Until recently as I've sought the Lord the most I have in my adult life (38 years old now) I had only ever flowed in speaking in tongues. That was the only gift I had experienced firsthand. But in this season of asking holy spirit to fill me to overflowing so I can walk in his power to help others he has allowed me to operate in word of knowledge, prophecy, and wisdom. It's been amazing to see. And now I realize that we are just vessels it's not that you have one gift or the other but the gifts can operate in you as needed for each ministry opportunity with others. And each time the Lord uses me this way I am so humbled to be used by him. One example was I was at Walmart and the Lord prompted me to pray over this lady I saw. I asked the Lord what he had for her and he told me to tell her taste and see that the Lord is good. I knew it was the Lord because I just couldn't shake it. So I approached her and told her that this might seem really weird but the Lord wanted me to tell her something. She looked at me and as soon as she looked at me the Holy Spirit told me that she has been battling depression. So before I told her I asked her is it true that you've been battling depression? Her eyes got really big and filled with tears and she said yes. And I told her that the Lord wanted her to know to taste and see that he is good. That he doesn't want her to fight that battle anymore and to trust in him. Then I asked if it was okay to pray with her and she was so receptive we prayed together right there in the middle of the pharmacy line. Afterwards with tears in her eyes she gave me a big hug.
When you have experiences like that and seeing the Lord work today and now through us as his church it's so beautiful. Too beautiful to ever deny that Holy Spirit still moves.
The gifts of the Spirit were signs of the “Last Days” of the Old Covenant which was from 30-70 AD. They ended with the crushing of the Old Covenant. Look at the pattern of the Exodus. When the Jews were slaves in Egypt for 400 years, there was a 40 year period filled with signs and wonders in the transition from slavery to entrance into their own country. Once they entered the promised land, their miraculous gifts ceased. Just like when the Kingdom of Heaven came in 70AD, the gifts ceased.
Very common view but the gifts are still alive and that is just a fact so no they did not stop in 70AD despite of the pretty theological construct you use to justify it. Once you experience them you can’t hold on to such a view anymore. BTW the kingdom already came in Christ’s ministry before he was crucified not just in 70AD. Him coming in his kingdom in 70AD does not mean that is when the kingdom started and came. He already sat at the right hand of the father in his Kingdom before 70AD, after his ascension. 70AD is just a revelation of him coming in his kingdom in judgement revealing him as having all authority and the authority only Yahweh had in the OT. But his Kingdom was already going strong pre 70AD. The 1000 years (church age) did not start in 70AD but already before it and it’s still going. Yes 70AD removed the whore and therefore vindicated Christianity but it was not the start of the kingdom itself. That is a biblical fact.
@@arminius504 His kingdom was “near” during his ministry, but wasn’t revealed until 70 AD. Again, the pattern is the gifts would cease when the kingdom came in 70 AD. That is a biblical fact. The Holy Spirit is active today, but the supernatural gifts have ceased just as Paul predicted.
"in the last days" not "throughout the last days"
Dr Storms tried to explain what tongues was but I still don't understand what his definition is.
The gift of tongues is basically someone speaking in what others would perceive as gibberish but it’s a language I guess only know to God. This is Pentecostalism and it’s pure heresy.
The gifts/fruits of the spirit are directly listed in Galatians 5: 22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Why people complicate this is beyond me. Just like those who complicate the simplicity of the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15: 1-4 by adding works. Then these who further complicate it by saying you can lose your salvation (which someone cannot lose)
@@Brii.ZNope. I wanted to agree with you until I went and looked it up because I was suspicious of how you put a slash mark between fruit and gifts, as if you are conflating the two. And sure enough, that sentence says that list in that passage is referring to fruit of the spirit in terms of what your behavior is like. It has nothing to do with being a list of spiritual gifts that were bestowed upon you. It is literally just a list of things that should be the result of your spiritual maturity and growth. That is an entirely separate matter from spiritual gifts
@@Brii.Zz But I do agree with you on the falseness of Pentecostalism and gibberish-style speaking in tongues
Couldn’t the longer ending of Mark, if not canonical, at least have creedal/confessional status? It was believed by large swathes of the church (way before Pentecostalism) for hundreds of years. Is that of no value in this discussion?
have you seen the preachers who attempted to handle deadly snakes and get bitten and die?
ppl are arguing about these gifts.. i went to a church and dont want to discuss these issues believe according to what u read in the bible.. they priciple ia that these issues wont give u SALVATION so why spend so much time discussing this? better talk about how to get make Jesus as Lord and savior of every human beings.
70 preachers were ordained by Jesus to Heal and cast demons.
There is no understanding here concerning the doctrine of the laying on of hands. Zero! None!
All of these arguments attempting to prove continuationist arguments would be solidly affirmed by the pseudo believers of Matt. 7:21-23. All of those "believers" were continuationists! NOT A CESSATIONIST IN THE BUNCH!!!! I have never and I mean NEVER heard a satisfactory or even an attempt to give a satisfactory response to that fact!
Look at the reality no one has the gift of healing, no one has the gift of prophesy, no one speaks in tongues ie languages but only gibberish this says it all
I suppose you can believe that if you deny the sufficiency of scripture. But it’s untenable to believe in the inherency and sufficiency of scripture and hold cessationism
@@TheRemnantRadio not only is it untenable, but WILDLY UNREASONABLE lol.
Proof they’re opening themselves up to the demonic lol jk
37:17
If you speak in tongues someone should be able to tell you which language you're speaking and what you've said. There's a difference between speaking a very strange language and glossolalia.
I think the word you are looking for is "xenolalilia", which is when it is a known language.
"Glossolalia" is when it is an unknown language.
And I would say both are Biblical throughout 1 Chorinthian 14.
"For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit." -1 Corinthians 14:2
Notice how it says "does not speak to people", and "utters mysteries by the Spirit". Also verse 7 goes on to say "Anyone who speaks in tongues edifices themselves..". Zenolialia maybe the better of the two (because it edifies more than one person), but both are scriptural when used correctly 🙂
The Bible says if tongues is spoken in church, it should be interpreted through the gift of interpretation.
This doesn't mean the interpreter even knows what language it is. It's a supernatural gift.
And no such condition is placed on the private use of tongues
I am curious about the foundation that animates you to declare doctrine that is not Biblical. Paul describes the speaking of unknown tongues which points to not translatable, doesn’t it? It’s so saddening to see honest sincere brothers in Christ glorify the Father by describing their witness and experiences with the working of the Holy Spirit today, and those inhabited by another spirit are eager to criticize. There is a spirit that caused some Jews to chase after and stone Paul, to martyr several of the Apostles, and others to condemn our Lord who was without sin and went about doing good. So sad.
Sam Storm explicitly answers your question at 24:00 with multiple citations to Paul’s teaching. So why are you asking such a question?
Disagree. We can pray in tongues to speak to our Father in heaven. Romans 8:26
Yes. Other times is to edify the church. That has to have interpretation.
James 3:8 says, “But the tongue can no man tame, it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.” Yielding your tongue to the Holy Spirit to speak with other tongues is a big step toward being able to fully yield all your members to God. If you can yield your tongue, you can yield any member of your body to God. Speaking in tongues is the initial evidence of the infilling of the Holy Spirit. God has given us this wonderful spiritual gift to bless us, edify us, and refresh us throughout our lives on this earth. Let’s remember what God has provided and enjoy the benefits of speaking in tongues.
1 Corinthians 13 is why you are wrong
Man shall not live by bread alone but by every WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Not human imagination, human hopes, human dreams, human visions, human thoughts etc. No it is the words written by the Holy Spirit that man must live by if he is going to understand God. Charismatic thought and human understanding has thrown out biblical doctrine. You can see the chaos that it has caused and as the end comes closer we will see more and more absurd Sid Roth type understanding of the work of the Holy Spirit. There is very little Biblical Doctrinal understanding as evidenced by teachers like Rick Warren, Andy Stanley, Greg Laurie , Hillsong etc. where God's salvation is reduced to "repeat after me and you will be saved". Is it any wonder that the North American Church is full of unsaved deceived folks like so many in the SBC. These people have sat in the pews for years being entertained by pastors and not having any spiritual discernment to be able to see the shallowness of the pastors who is "leading" them. So very sad. Even now the SBC is defending the leadership that is spiritually bankrupt.
Im curious what about first corinthians 13 makes them wrong?
Yea..like they haven't heard that one before. Also, they mention 1 Cor 13....I'm guessing you didn't watch.
@@ramseybroussard7057 the "perfection" is Love. "love never fail" is the perfection. it is not "Jesus". what this does is when the Church is matured, these superpower preformed by the same person is making Jesus "Santa". one must use the closest verses to interpret the word "perfection". you cannot use what you believe in the Gospels which is in another book to interpret this word since few verses before its say "love never fail". if it never fail isn't it perfection. after the doing away with Signs and wonder, what is left are "hope, faith and love" for influencing others".
@@IronGod1640 @Ramsey Broussard the "perfection" is Love. "love never fail" is the perfection. it is not "Jesus". what this does is when the Church is matured, these superpower preformed by the same person is making Jesus "Santa". one must use the closest verses to interpret the word "perfection". you cannot use what you believe in the Gospels which is in another book to interpret this word since few verses before its say "love never fail". if it never fail isn't it perfection. after the doing away with Signs and wonder, what is left are "hope, faith and love" for influencing others".
Jesus said that many will come to Him on that day saying that they casted out demons and healed the sick and prophesied yet He'll tell them to depart. The text we know in Matthew, is in reference to the judgement and how many will use the miracles they performed in His name, as a means of justifying why they should go to heaven, rather than relying on the death and resurrection of Christ. Many cessationists will use that verse and say "that sounds just like the charismatics" in the sense to say that all charismatics are damned because of miracles performed in the name of Christ, but the reality it wasn't the miracles that damned the people in the verse, it was the way they used them, it was the fact that they used works of miracles as a means of their salvation rather than the work of Christ, not to mention the implication that they lived a secret life as they are also called "workers of iniquity" or "workers of lawlessness".
This verse by far is one of the best, if not the best, evidence of scripture that shows that the Gifts of the Spirit will continue until the day Christ returns, but it also tells us to be careful, that we should truly live for Christ, in both our open and private life, but also not to use the Gifts of the Spirit as a way of saying "I'm going to heaven because I have the gift(s) of...."
We are saved by grace through faith, the only gift that is required for being saved, is the Holy Spirit Himself, Whom is given to someone at the moment of salvation.
-----------------------------------------------------
There are also multiple instances in history where the gifts are present...
Justin Martyr, c. A.D. 150
(Dialogue with Trypho 39) Understanding, counsel, strength, healing, foreknowledge, teaching, and the fear of God are mentioned as being gifts that were in operation at the time, which are "illuminated through the name of Christ", by the Holy Spirit.
Irenaeus, c. A.D. 185
(Against Heresies V:6:1)
Irenaeus makes it clear that the gift of tongues is still in operation at that time among them who have received the Spirit of God.
Clement of Alexandria, c. A.D. 190
(Miscellanies IV:21)
Knowledge, life (raising the dead), preaching, righteousness, purity, and prophecy are mentioned as as being the gifts that were being operated in at the time among believers.
Cyprian (Bishop of Carthage, 248-258 A.D.) spoke and wrote about the gift of prophecy and the receiving of visions from the Holy Spirit.
(The Epistles of Cyprian, vii.3-6, ANF, 5:286-87; vii.7, ANF, 5:287; lxviii.9-10, ANF, 5:375; IV.4, ANF, 5:290)
Ambrose, A.D. 381
(On the Holy Spirit II:13:150)
Healing and Tongues are mentioned and received by Christians at that time from the Holy Spirit, "Each, according to his capacity, receives that which he either desires or deserves."
Not to mention there an abundance of accounts in history of saints casting out demons and raising the dead