John Danaher: Judo vs BJJ | Lex Fridman Podcast Clips
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: • John Danaher: Grapplin...
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John Danaher is one of the greatest coaches and minds in martial arts history.
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Guest bio: John Danaher is one of the greatest coaches and minds in martial arts history.
I bet $100,000 that Teddy Renner would be Gordon Ryan a fight Gordon's amazing BJJ but if they had to fight each other Teddy Renner would smoke him
Lex get in contact with Paul Ajala or someone he like Neil adams
Been a police officer for 5 years been doing judo for 3 and let me tell you it has saved my life more than that bs taught at the academy
how ? you just slam somebody on the floor?
@@guyetundi5501 not really a slam but a leg sweep now and then.
@@pro-non9887 Great to hear. Keep up the good work and be safe.
Very interesting
I also did greco roman in high school so I'm kinda pretty good at clinch and hand fighting.
If it wasn't for Judo we wouldn't have BJJ, Sambo, or Krav Maga. Jigoro Kano was a true philosopher, visionary when he founded the art.
A lot of BJJ actually came from catch wrestling, though BJJ nerds like to pretend it doesn't.
@@ballshippin3809Catch wrestlings use of submissions is vastly overhyped by the charlatans who sell overpriced instructionals filled with techniques from Judo.
If submissions featured regularly in catch wrestling matches you could show film of such matches but you can’t because they don’t exist. You can find old black and white films of Judoka, BJJ practitioners and Sambists using submissions as in matches and practice sessions nauseum but no catch matches featuring submissions whatsoever.
@@ballshippin3809tf you talking bout? Maeda teached the Gracies Judo as a Judoka! Just use google.its easy.
If there was not traditional Japanese Jiu Jitsu, there would never been Judo :) lol
@@chyngyzkushbakov2225 Jujutsu but nice try and says nothing 😚
I’d watch John explore the intricacies of ketchup vs hot sauce.
Vs Siracha..☝🏽
We need to make this happen
Perfectly put.
One is tomato based and the other is pepper based
@Nomad LUFC link please
At this point Lex needs to get a japanese judoka on here.
He won't because he's caught up in the Brazilian jujitsu cult
@@markdaniels4178 Say what? He's had wrestlers and Judoka on. You're insane
@@markdaniels4178 Clearly you are. Watch the video and think before making wild claims you can't back up
The Japanese at the Kodokan have ironically maintained more of the old judo spirit, even though in sports format, compared to the rest of the world. Unless you go to a highly technical school focused on the complete curriculum.
IF you notice, the Japanese Olympic competitors have a more complete Ne-Waza (Ground) repertoire, while the Europeans are lazy on the ground and focus on getting the referee to stop the fight and stand them up.
Shintaro
Grappling sports are the best. Whether its Judo, Jitz, Wrestling, Sambo. You gotta love it. So effective. So brilliant. Literal human chess.
Striking is better for self defense in a street fight, but you should definitely learn striking + grappling to be perfected
@@realtruth1448Both are good, I put my kids in Judo n BJJ, they will soon join MMA when high school.
@@realtruth1448 yeah probably striking is good for self defense but it somewhat depends on luck, whether ur opponent is tought or not, in grappling the earth gravity and laws of physics apply so there is no luck
but both are great, training one of them is better than not training
@@Quidoute the issue with grappling is that the person can fight dirty, which isn’t accounted for in grappling training even for mma, eye poking, biting, etc etc, of course if you go for a quick takedown that eliminates dirty play, but also factor in if this person is by themselves, or with a group, and everything in between, also nobody is that tough, especially on their legs, roundhouse kicks are like getting hit with baseball bats, 2-3 roundhouse kicks to someone’s knee they won’t be capable of properly walking anymore, and their leg will go stiff after the 4-5 shot, of course imo the best thing to do in a self defense situation is a single leg snatch takedown, stay on your feet and control the person’s ankle, and then from their look around and see if this person has any buddies around, if he does, kick him a few times and just repeat the same cycle, single leg takedown, but use force with it to really rough up the next guy, if he doesn’t have any buddies, kick him and run away, but never run away with the opportunity that someone(especially a group) will chase you, the reason why that’s actually a bad idea is because if you gas out, and they catch up to you, you’re in big trouble, also running away you can slip & fall, or get hit by a car or anything, just isn’t a good idea to run away with the opportunity of being chased, stand your ground
@@realtruth1448from experience I agree totally, and in my opinion those that would disagree have either never experienced a street fight, no street thug comes up grabbing they always come at you swinging so you have the distance to swing back , also they likely have never really practice striking much and just don’t have the skills, I’ve been doing taekwondo and judo as a black belt since 1980 and have a little street experience . But I will say it’s good to have judo if they get in close to break free or throw, stay off the ground or his buddies will stomp you
He’s doing an interview and wearing a rash guard, he’s always ready to roll!!
They say he went to a wedding in one!
The irony is he never rolls anymore because his knees are trashed
Let us not forget that the Kimura BJJ submission is named so because of Masahiko Kimura, who completely humiliated Helio Gracie and submitted him with Ude-Garame (aptly named Kimura).
Let us not forger he is just one person - and outweighted Helio about 15 to 20 kg. There is a reason why MMA is leaned more towards wrestling and BJJ instead of judo.
@@JoriMikke78 Judo beats bjj anyday in street fighting. Also the weight should not matter in both judo and bjj
@@JoriMikke78 Judo beats bjj anyday in street fighting. Also the weight should not matter in both judo and bjj. There is a reason why Judo is in the Olympics but not bjj. BJJ is mainly from Judo's newaza
@@yesiasked No it doesn't. If it work at all, it would be implemented in MMA. BJJ is there, judo is not. Clear as day.
Modern BJJ has more common with wrestling.
@@JoriMikke78 wrong, bjj lacks stand up game. Wrestling is more like judo
Four years of club Judo in college gave me an excellent workout. Competition Judo, though? Leave it to the dogs. The analogy to Boxing and Kickboxing is spot on here.
Yeah my body is torn to shit I know
Very true. To compete in judo, it takes a very different mindset
Judo competitions are almost impossible to enter from a hobbyist standpoint. If you're very lucky, you'll find a couple of obvious in your weight and age category, as an adult my only competition so far I had four black belts and one green belt. I beat the green belts and got cream by the two black belts.
What does leave it to dogs mean?
@@daebak7370 basically means that to be able to compete successfully in judo the person has to be hungry and willing to win no matter what. Cause man these high level guys are no joke. A lot could probably injure or kill a normal person just be throwing them on their head at such high speeds
I wanna see more Judo Olympic Gold medalists transition to MMA
Head trauma is an excellent addition to their tenure.
Why should they, also after a long career of judo there body has too much wear and tear they have nothing to prove its a different sport.
@@etagged agreed its not worth it.
@@moonsdonut5188 unless you want to be the best and not just best at a certain thing.
@@ETAisNOW what kind of logic is that ? XD
I think what Lex was getting at is a person can perform at his/her potential on a given day when all the stars align, but
s/he is not actually performing above their skill level…it’s just that most people cannot perform at their potential.
Well said
At his core Fedor is a Judoka. :)
In John's wedding photos he's wearing a rash guard 😃
Danaher's last comments are interesting; Seems confidence is not an issue if you never lose, but once you do it could become a huge one, like for Ronda Rousey as an example.
Ronda was delusional in her training approach. Instead of figuring out a way to utilize her judo after her loss to Holly she just continued brute forcing her way with boxing. But that's what happens to everyone at the top, eventually your strategy is figured out and someone takes the crown.
@@JustSujC As I expected, she was out-muscled, in grappling its very important, and the way she does, like you said, forcing requires even more
Edmund was Ronda's downfall.
Yeah and concussions lol
One of my instructors: "Judo & BJJ = two wheels on the same bicycle"
Jacare Souza was a master at both
If your instructor actually Knew judo, he wouldnt put BJJ next to it…Kosen Judo comes to mind
@@rusiatevuetibau6333 there is always the white belt that claims his style is the best, i though there were less of them in the judo community, it's usually the box or muay thai guys
@@_Tao__ nah, my judo instructor scoffs at BJJ too lol
Hes wrong
Very good points made in this video
I love John's work help the world and the USA Bring this in all the schools....
I'm really surprised at the lack of takedowns and stand up control in BJJ, it's just so important especially in real world encounters. Especially considering it's origins, surprised they didnt leave the stand up stuff in, it would've been magic.
It’s in traditional Gracie/BJJ, it was the competition schools that didn’t teach the self defense and stand up. But thankfully more and more competition schools are incorporating wrestling into the program.
@@boostedgixxer that's because the Gracies were basically just teaching Judo
i like judo the complete martial art and sport judo i hate some of the new rules
What's the difference?
Motivation and confidence can clearly uplift your skills, because you do it with more ease, you don't get more skills, you just do it with a clear state of mind
I never question John. But this did seem like..personal preference? Idk. The aspect of self defense is important too. Not just sport vs sport for competition purposes.
What he said about judo applies more at the super light weights. They throw themselves around like human crickets and the combustive energy can cause catastrophic injuries. As you advance up the weight classes you reach a sweet spot for dynamic athleticism, technique and strategy (Ono Shohei). It's also a spectacularly beautiful sport when you see the feats achieved. What makes Judo struggle is that it never had progressive thoughts to growth and expansion. How and why judo should be taught is a completely separate argument. But the concepts of the founder aren't really enforced and taught as a life changing and immersive experience built on the best concepts of being moral whilst engaging in a physical activity that makes dancing between life and death in real life super fast and mostly very safe. Judo has been downgraded over time for too many reasons. However everything being technically cyclical...
You say it has been downgraded but it is now more popular in most countries outside of the U.S. Hell its more popular in Brasil than BJJ
@@harunbogdanic2077 If you go onto Statista and look at memberships and active members in the relevant associations the bigger countries have been going down steadily for at least 30 years, covid became a huge catalyst towards that. I'll give you an example, one book I read about Britain and it's formative years of Judo had an active membership base of over 100,000 people. Statista is showing a gradual drop from 30,000 or more currently. With the internet Judo has not faired well in claiming it's fair share of the marketplace. Whereas in Brazil you have a demographic of very hard working people who thrive on martial arts. Keep in mind the amount of Germans and Japanese in South America it makes sense that the martial arts are further embraced. Compared to many expensive hobbies Judo is successfully replicated in very poor countries at low levels.
What are you on about buddy
@@harunbogdanic2077probably means some of the moves in judo that are life threatening. A lot of the techniques are forbidden in competitions, some of those techniques where built for self defense. Those techniques can severely injure individuals. So they watered down according to the above commenter to make it more safer from competition. Cause the guy who invented judo and his original students where so lethal that no one could touch them in combat. They lopes the floor with some the best Ju jitsu Gyms in Japan and the entire world at that time.
Toshiba was an Olympic gold medalist fought many in PriceFC
God i love Judo❤ John is a legend👌
My man rocking the omega
I love these questions
That last part about gordan ryan makes a lot of sense tho
Interesting
However Jon Jones seem to have different opinion about that.
He said that the loss he had in sparring make him confident that in knows his weakness and trap that his opponent may throw
1 solid judo throw and no amount of bjj skill is gonna matter because you're done before you even have a chance to use it, you can't submit what you can't take down first
I think you’re referring to sports BJJ not Gracie Jiu jistu
Gracie didn't invent shit.
@@ShadowMoon314 he basically just renamed Ne Waza 😂
Judo is, for lack of better word ... how do I put this in a GENTLE WAY ... SUPERIOR :)
The title isn't really apt here (the confidence discussion in the latter half is more substantive)--but still a great clip!
Get Shohei Ono in here please
I love judo but bjj has some advantages over it's parent style
Except for stand up grappling though it also has a submissions like BJJ
@@billcipher3946 They banned a lot of techniques from judo I would love those techniques being used again
@@darylfieldsBut still judo is still more effective, Greco Roman doesn’t have leg takedowns so no is complaining about Greco.
@@darylfieldsThey banned it in competition not in Judo!
@@stillgotyourmom yeah judo use to be a complete package but they banned a lot of techniques
John just proved that Judo is better for street self-defense than BJJ.
Why does Danaher always where rash guards in interviews?
It’s not in interviews. It’s what he wears all the time, everywhere, for everything
That’s his thing
In case he has to fight the interviewer.
Everything said here only applies if Gordon is natty....every drug abuser has his same confidence walking into a fight.
It's like baseball. Will the ball go farther? Sure. But you still need to be a master of your craft.
That’s not how PEDS work lol
Teddy Riner has a lot of controversies in his victories. Playing the game of shidos and wasting time and not fighting has been unsportman like and speaks to gamesmanship. In judo for many this is ugly.
in MMA who combines judo and bjj at a master level? no one comes to mind
Khabib, Makhachev, Ankalaev and all the other Dagestani and chechen fighters practice sambo from their early age. Basically what they do is dominant Judo+ a bit of wrestling and later in careers when they start having more finishes and submission wins that means that they also mastered BJJ.
never heard of khabib?
@@Logan-zv4xg Now that you say it I understand what you mean... He doesn't really come to mind though when I think of Judo experts
Ronda Rousey
@@rexandcompany3933 Funny thing, last I checked Khabib is a Judo black belt and Combat Sambo world champion, his BJJ is only white belt though. But he submitted Dustin Poirier who's a BJJ black belt. I think that submission technique might be more Sambo + MMA gym practice.
I think Danaher would show up to a wedding in a rashguard
Love practicing judo, I also practice Taekwondo and Hapkido, in my experience (black belt since 1980) from various self defense encounters, judo has helped me tremendously in confidence of close up situation, however I have always been able to control my distance and use my kicks , sidekick to the solar plexus and down he goes, his buddies retreated and ran off, generally speaking I stay out of high risk areas , yet I have been attacked by a gang of three thugs in my own dojang, no retreating acceptable, any honorable black belt will not accept defeat in his own school, no mercy all cobra Kai! To their surprise that “karate shit “ did work. But if they had managed to get in and grab me judo would have been useful, but usually they come swinging for the ko and taekwondo (we do old school karate style hands , feet , elbows, knees, head butt) , or good striking is good to have, I will say that judo gives one great awareness of defending any grappling, like the attacker reaching out to grab or strike and either taking a grip and doing a throw or avoiding, with counter ; but my preference is to take em out with a powerful kick, mid to low section, but one must adjust the distance to have the space to do that, and strong kicks take lots of practice, probably more so than hand techniques or throws and submissions. The best way of cocking knee high and tight with proper extension and quick retraction is a harder skill to acquire than most others in my experience and opinion, so I feel those that put down the use of striking martial arts due to their lack of ability just don’t put in the proper practice with quality instruction
Ishii is a bad example. He was favorite to win. River was in his infancy. Better example Fabio Basile. He had a day and a half during 16’ Olympics. Never won a tournament prior to that.
The guest makes a point which is invalid. He spoke as if people compete at a given level in all of their fights. No one has 100% consistancy in their performances.
How come BBJ Practitioners never compete against Boxers?
They do, its called MMA
@@niallkcummins1006 Not really tho’
"how come tennis players don't compete against baseball players"
@@wer123456 ‘Cos Tennis players don’t ever talk ghat tuff sh*t to Baseball Players, like they’re above gettin’ sent to the shadow🕳 realm
@@moseshanon7060 how
get a judoka on
They both are blackbelts in Judo and John coach's world champs in Judo.
"I am the shark, the ground is my ocean" ... don't play their game and stay on shore then lol ... learning bjj is about as useless as learning portuguese or learning how to surf, it's good to know if you find yourself in these exceptional situations but why would you go to a hellhole like Brasil, why would you surf in shark-infested waters, why would you willingly put yourself in danger in a self defence scenario by going to the ground willingly, at least judo will teach you how to get back up and LEAVE the Danger Zone instead of prolonging your risk of getting headstomped ... maybe bjj is useful to learn if only for 1 thing and thing only: to develop an understanding on how NOT to do self-defence :)
Johns wrong in describing jiujitsu as a "series of blunders", its's just that it's far more in depth and intricate. In all those other sports you have that home run aspect, in jiujitsu there's no such thing. You have to work and grind it out to earn that submission and that takes a great amount of technical expertise alongside conditioning.
He didn't say that. He said that you can make a series of blunders and still recover implying this happens if you are fundamentally better.
he said that you can recover from your mistakes in BJJ,
in Judo or Wrestling, one wrong foot placement or grip would cost the entire match
Who needs Judo when you can pull guard😊
He is Absolutely Wrong that folks can't Raise there skill level at the day. That is completely ridiculous. As a matter of fact just due to the hormone activity in the brain someone can Raise there skill level ( meaning they perform there known skill level at a higher level) on such day depending on who they are. Example...some folks are Gamers some are ready to go when it has to be done. Im sorry but that is just flat wrong
It's dress up.
Gordon Ryan has lost, and more then once.
Ok
Compare Judo and Jiu jitsu doesn’t make sense …
Why wouldn't it? JJ evolved out of Judo
@@seer775 exactly, they are totally different things, bjj = ground grappling, submissions, etc, judo = stand up grappling, takedowns, etc, its like comparing wtf taekwondo and boxing
@@_Tao__judo has ground grappling and bjj is a subset of judo
@@Supermomo2007 judo ground is very limited, bjj isn't a subset, it's a extended version of judo
extended in newaza, yes, but not in stand up@@_Tao__
I dont think Joe has actually seen a real Krav Maga Tuhon in action.
False title
W
Judo is superior
First...
🏀🦖
2:13 thats nonsense Ive felt my understanding explode mid match, immediately increasing my skill level. Ive seen it happen to others as well. There is no “set skill level”.
Gordon ryan is the conor mcgregor of bjj?? A lot of casuals thinking he’s invincible but in a microscope scale because nobody watches bjj
Judo for the win.
BJJ is just Judo for hipster's.
Im stealing this as a quote.