Auto-Retract Threader, The Next Generation
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- This is my second design for an auto-retract threading tool. It features a full one inch retract, allowing it to clear shoulder diameters nearly two inches larger than the thread. For purchase info email autoretractthreader@gmail.com
Wish this was around back in the 80s when I was an apprentice F&T👍
Very creative solution.
I read the titles and I thought
'Why would you need one inch of retraction?'...
I watched the video...
Now I know the answer!
That's excellent thank you. 😊
Now combine it with a Hardinge style Single Tooth Dog Clutch so you never have to mess with the Threading Dial and re-engaging the Half Nut.
It was a comment just like this that started this whole adventure.
@@phineasj.whoopee3301
I'm not sure if one should really call it a Hardinge Style Clutch system. IIRC Hendley was the first lathe manufacturer to offer such a system. Even though threading on a Hardinge is far less stressful than a conventional lathe the only way to absolutely be assured of no crashes is a relief groove. The use of a geometric threading head eliminates a lot of the issues too. Of course there's always CNC.
@@mpetersen6 I have the single tooth dog clutch on my 110 year old Drummond. The design has probably been invented multiple times.
@@trialen
It's one of those ideas that can be added to any number of lathes
@@mpetersen6 The way to be absolutely sure of no crashes is to begin the thread at the root.
Very very clever. Thank you for sharing the concept. I definitely want to try my hand at recreating this
The final design looks really good. On the fourth version It appears you were able to eliminate the slight movement of the tool when it contacts the work piece.
Nice work 🙂
It turns out that resetting the tool pushes the carriage forward due to lash in the screw, then it pushes back when the tool encounters the stock.
Nice bit of kit for old fellas with slower reflexes.👍
...wait... old fellahs? Slow reflex.
You'd think after living for over 50 years, your reflexes would get better in old age. Hence the saying, practice makes perfect.
I remember being impressed with the earlier designs. Just gets better and better.
I loved screw cutting and made hundreds of threads. I never disengaged the half-nut, always retracted the cross slide by hand and put the lathe in reverse. It was all one-off work, no production runs. I remember some odd ball pitch jobs when I used the feed screw instead of the lead screw to thread cut. Mostly I ground my own cutting tools from hss.
Never seen a lathe with a feed screw, only feed shaft and lead screw, the former shaft being smooth with either 1 or 2 keyways.
Smaller lathes that don’t have a feed shaft and having only a leadscrew for both functions, being the exception.
I’m curious though what you mean by cutting the oddball pitches via the feed shaft. Is it that you set the feed/rev to the pitch req’d and did it that way? If you’re ever disengaging and reversing the spindle I suppose it would work but there’s not the positive indexing that comes with the lead screw.
Anyway…
@@matter9 it's ok, small difference in terminology aside, you have understood correctly. I was a Toolmaker not an english professor, but it seems I can still get my message across. Cheers.
That is some good work, the challenge of threading and disengaging at the right moment solved. That looks simple enough to build if one had the right tools, you did the work braining it out, worked through the flaws, making improvements. A big congratulations, that shows talent, there are other problems needing a solution. What to do next. Free willy it or find a manufacturer. Look around in the Used Tools Dealers and see how many manual lathes are for sale, that little research might be a wake up call. Dealers have told me shops can't hire people who know how to run them so they sit collect dust and then get sold. These end up shipped South to other countries. Hobby guys would buy it but they are cheap and often return items. Nice job great skill, a old lathe man myself. Cheers!
Thank you! These tools have been well received by the hobby crowd. Not a single return.
@@phineasj.whoopee3301 That speaks highly of the quality of the your workmanship, and the product. Cheers!
That's pretty slick! Great work!
Wow! That's a very intuitive and exceptionally handy tool you have made! Retracting the tool in the blink of an eye. Very impressive!
I'd love to know how it works. Nice work!
Watch the video closely, the first two prototypes show the details clearly.
Great design. We shared this video on our homemade tool forum last week, and people really liked it 😎
That is ingenious! Great job!
You have a workable tool, that will help you. One change that I would recommend if and when you get the itch to go for number five, would be to change the retraction angle to run parallel to the right thread flank. This will move the tool roughly .5” away from the shoulder, which gives a bit of safety for the operator’s reflexes.
That sounds like an entirely new device which would need a different mechanism
Excellant work!
Felicitaciones, mis máximos Respetos, tengo 54 de edad y es la primera vez que veo un accesorio esencial y genial, demostrando que no sólo las grandes empresas pueden fabricar dispositivos novedosos, Éxitos desde Caracas Venezuela 🇻🇪 hay que reconocer la importancia de tus prototipos 💯x💯😀👍💰☕
Very good plan. Nice work
Very nice ! ... I saw your post on Practical Machinist Forum !... the lads seem impressed... which isn't an easy feat... 😂
I'm a longtime lurker over there, the place is a goldmine of info but also a few minefields... 🔥😳 (yeah, Doozer.. I'm lookin at you ! 😂)
You deserve more subs... ye got mine with this vid !!
From the Emerald Isle
😎👍☘🍻
Thank you for your kind words. I hear what you are saying about PM, I tend to be very cautious about what I post over there. To my shock and surprise, Doozer has actually said some complimentary things about my work. Thanks for the sub.
That’s pretty slick.
Awesome work! I was thinking that one could add a lever that you pull back on, rather than push forward so there would be no lost motion in the leadscrew. Cheers and very best regards.
I did consider that, even before I realized the carriage was being pushed forward. In keeping with my "Stupidly Simple Designs" motto, I went with the simplest possible solution. It also helps keep the cost down.
Dern good idea. I like #4 as it has minimal tool movement when it picks up the cut.
The force of resetting the tools pushes the entire carriage forward due to lash in the cross-feed screw. If you watch carefully, the movement you see is actually the entire carriage pushing back. I've since developed a technique for resetting that doesn't push the carriage forward.
@@phineasj.whoopee3301 yeah I saw that movement. There may be an adjustment in the nut on the cross slide. Or replace the nut if its badly worn. But still a cool idea. Im a 39 year machinist and like seeing innovative ideas. I could have used a tool like this for many thousands of parts.
@@martinswiney2192 Some of my employees could have used it .
@@phineasj.whoopee3301 Great design, nice videos, watching it in quarter speed is also instructive.
Having a lever that you push from the cutting side would do the trick.
Making it reset automatically when you pull away from the stop would be even cooler but more fiddly to achieve more movement than was needed for the re-setter to pass the end stop. It also of upsetting the stop position.
Very nice work! 👍🏻
I wish I had that when I worked as a machinist. I absolutely hated threading on the lathe dreading for that one time I don't get the cross feed disengage in time and ruin the work, or worse, crash into the spinning chuck.
disengage? yknow how much i enjoy doing the rare-as imperial that lets me disengage?
metric sucks... having a brake helps. gets a work out...
Ah yes, the knot in the pit of your stomach as you drop the half-nut lever. The rising tension as the carriage speeds toward the headstock. I don't miss it at all.
@@paradiselost9946 There is a technique for metric threading that allows disengaging the half-nuts. I've used it once or twice. It works.
@@phineasj.whoopee3301 theres a few but all slow and awkward. always a trade off between going to the effort to set up and wait each cycle, versus slamming the brake on and reversing...
the longer the thread the more likely i am to disengage.
Wow! Very impressive.
Oh goodness I can't imagine life without this. Oh yeah I can
It looks like it would not be too difficult to add auto reset to your device on the way back to start position.
Well it looks like it works great, but I could see it having rigidity issues. I can't tell in the video, but unless you have a precision slide for the tool retract, there's going to be some free play side to side and up-down.
Each tool is individually fitted to provide the absolute minimum clearance, both in vertical and horizontal. Rigidity is not a problem.
the dreaded backlash
This is awesome.
I am 79 years old and my reflexes are shot. I just crashed the threader into the shoulder of my project. I needed to have threads all the way but even at the slowest speed it was too fast for this old Marine. Do you sell a BXA version and what would it cost to send to NE Pennsylvania? (18818).
Thanks for sharing your talent.
I do sell a BXA. Contact me at autoretractthreader@gmail.com
As I don't thread often enough to be super confident
I would love to see a simple drawing of this excellent device.
Normal people just don't understand.
@@phineasj.whoopee3301 Hi Phineas, they sure won't now. I edited my post just before your kind reply. oops
I'm offering them for sale, so I'm not inclined to release the (as yet unfinished) drawings. Having said that, they are another of my Stupidly Simple Designs. There is no magic, the basic principles are obvious from the video.
@@phineasj.whoopee3301 I hope you do very well with them.
@@phineasj.whoopee3301 May I suggest that a down loadable plan would be much more lucrative
than building and selling the item. Obviously you only have to draw the plan once.
And for me, knowing I'm going to build something that works the first time
rather than having to adjust and modify, like you have already done, is worth the cost.
Regardless, all the best in your endeavors
I guess after 40 years of turning threads I found it easy once you put an undercut at the end of the thread near the shoulder the same size, or just under, as the threàds minor diameter.
Few hobbyists will ever get to do enough threading to become comfortable, and sometimes a thread relief is not allowed.
@@phineasj.whoopee3301as a hobbyist an undercut would be way easier than building something as complicated as you have and I can't think of a reason not to undercut
First, this is absolutely amazing.
Next, I'm deadly curious to know how repeatable it is when you "arm" the system.
(You really should consider teaming up with a manufacturing facility to get these commercially made.)
The threader is pulled back against the release lever by the spring when "re-armed". The release lever has no play on its pivot, though the spring tension would ensure consistent positioning even if it did.
Great idea. I wish you a successful patent application.
No plans to apply for a patent. If it is even patentable, the cost of obtaining a patent, while high, is nothing compared to the cost of defending one. I'm happy just to make and sell them.
@@phineasj.whoopee3301 No patent - good man. I completely agree that the cost and hassle is not worth it and defending is a money pit.
I send you my high respect and best regards from Victoria 🇨🇦
It’s in the public domain now.
No chance of a patent.
@@lesmansom7817 That was the plan, I didn't intend to patent it and now no one else can.
Nice progression. I notices the tool pressure had less and less effect as each prototype was demonstrated. I didn't see any tool deflection in the final.
awesome work
I think you should use two springs each side, or top and bottom to keep sideways play and wear to a minimum, or a single concentric spring like a solder sucker uses.
As currently designed, there is no place to put an opposing spring. A concentric spring is possible if added at the back end between the holder and reset knob. This would require about 3 inches extension behind the holder.
Very nice craftsmanship. However if you're lazy you can flip your tool upside down and run spindle in reverse. That way you can take your time setting it up on the shoulder and feed out away from the spindle and then no rush for crashing.
Joe Pie showed this technique
Gets pretty dicey with a threaded spindle nose.
Excellent! It would be great to somehow rig linkage to reverse the spindle instead of disengaging the half nut.
Sounds good but unless your lathe happens to have a zero-lash ball leadscrew, reversing the spindle and carriage without retracting the cutter will cause the cutter to track a different path due to backlash in the leadscrew.
Very cool.....I'll just flip the tool upside down for now
Great idea!
Id opt for a 1/4 turn retract before the quick retract forming a tightening groove
Very nice!
that is really cool
Do you have plans?
i saw the tool push back in the tool holder in the first 3. didn't really see it in the fourth, but the video shutters right when the tool makes contact and the video quality is poor. so how rigid is the final product? just wonder if you are getting any taper in your threads if there is any deflection of the tool pushing back. awesome design and great problem solving. lets see it at 1000 rpm.....please! higher rpms are awesome for cutting threads, which would be a good use for this product. it would be a good test.
Watch carefully when the tool is reset, the entire carriage pushes forward, due to the lash in the cross-feed. That rearward motion is the carriage pushing back. The tool is quite rigid. The problem with higher speeds is the speed at which the threading dial rotates. My 70+ y/o reflexes just can't keep up.
Nice design, but I've been doing this by hand, for some years now. Regards JB
That’s awesome
Creative video, thanks :)
The first one was so violent. The second and third had the cutting bit being pushed out of the cut.
That movement is actually due to the carriage being pushed forward during reset due to lash in the cross-feed screw, then being pushed back when the tool encounters the work.
Just thread away from the chuck and towards the tailstock. Joe Pie just re-released his video on how this is done.
I've done it before, but it can get dicey with a threaded spindle nose.
@@phineasj.whoopee3301 very true. Any tips to prevent it from unthreading? Maybe using some pipe tape to give it a tighter fit?
With additional parts and design, it should be possible to reset the mechanism by movement of the carriage.
I've been trying to figure that one out, but as it is I'm at the upper limit of affordability and it would require something else attached to the lathe bed, which is a real wild-card. Reality can be ugly sometimes.
Brilliant , shame there arent any plans that people could purchase .
Fantastic idea! Have you thouth of using a central spring around a smaller dia push rod?
Please explain, I'm always looking to improve. In general, I seek out the simplest solution, Stupidly Simple if you will. The OTS toolholders are hardened, so I try to minimize the amount of machining on them.
Amazing, really 200 iq idea!
Awesome, very smart. Wowww
Fantastic
Absolument génial !
This is marvelous! Can I buy one or the plans?
I have units for sale, contact me at autoretractthreader@gmail.com
Very nice. I need an axa for my 12x40
Contact me at autoretractthreader@gmail.com
How much? I could use one on my lathe with a axa tool post holder
email autoretractthreader@gmail.com for info
awesome.
I like that
Great concept but I would be curious to know is there no way to have the spring internal, if only because it seems like it might be a bit of a chip collector depending on how much you are threading or how long of a threading operation.
There is no room for the spring within the OTS tool holder and to put it under the cover plate would require a much heavier plate and significantly more machining. Basically, cost constraints weigh against a number of possible improvements. I've only once had a chip find its way into the spring, but it went straight down the center and caused no problems.
Looks like the cutter is being pushed back slightly as it hits the threads on second version?? Not good, position repeatability probably not great?
It's the entire cross-slide pushing back. It gets pushed forward, due to lash in the screw, when the tool is reset.
This is very nicely done. I hear a firm click following retraction of the tool, I presume this is the disengagement of the half nuts. Is that also part of your design, or are you doing that automatically, or something else?
That's a separate mechanism. It's what started this whole fiasco. th-cam.com/video/U4gDuL0VDRQ/w-d-xo.html
For metal lathes where access to the clutch poses problems, a simple but effective solution is to use an electric limit switch to cut off the power supply. At low speed stopping is almost instantaneous.
Outstanding ………. !
Do you have drawings for sale?
Just emailed you, I had to put
it on .25 speed for a better look.
Excellent.
You said you are making the BX size version. I'd be interested in one. I didn't see a private contact info so .........
contact me at autoretractthreader@gmail.com
What are you planning to do with this? I began to design one of these as well, but ended up getting Geometric die heads instead. I still single point threads larger than 3/4” though, so this is still of interest.
I am simply making and selling them. If someone wants to copy the idea they are welcome to do so.
Craig, you are very clever my friend!!.
Well done sir. Did you file for a patent?
Are you selling plans?
Jeff
Thanks Jeff. No, I haven't applied for a patent. Maybe once I sell enough units to pay for it.
I see it does a good job of retracting the cutting tool but, does it also disengage the feed lever or are you doing that off camera?
That's a separate mechanism th-cam.com/video/U4gDuL0VDRQ/w-d-xo.html
Do you sell plans of the tool?
No. 🙂
I'm seeing chatter marks in the thread like the tool bit is not held securely in the holder
Those are not chatter, they are some weird visual effect between the LED shop lights and the camera in my phone. Of all the problems I've encountered, chatter has not been one.
How much are you charging for these?
email autoretractthreader@gmail.com for info.
AKA the pull out device
With long stroke and rapid withdrawal.
So when are you going to be selling them? Or sharing your plans?
What brand/size toolpost? I am currently making AXA, BXA and straight shank for non-Aloris toolposts.
SE FOSSE POSSIBILI VORREI COMPRARE IL PROGETTO
Do you have a website where these are offered for sale? I have a BXA size Phase II toolpost.
Contact me at autoretractthreader@gmail.com
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Like! ----Doozer
That's twice, high praise indeed.
I sincerely hope you have applied for a patent before you posted this video, because I would lay a bet that someone in China is watching this video and copying your design.
Not sure the market is large enough, but I wouldn't be surprised. If it is even patentable, I doubt I could recoup the cost of a patent before the Chinese copied it anyway. Having a patent is one thing, being able to defend it another.
With patent and without patent the Chinese will still copy that how they conquered the way by copying everything!!!!!
China seems to not care if something is patented or not.
@@phineasj.whoopee3301 truer words have never been spoken. I have an invention Ive been selling for 15 years. Everyone told me to get a patent. I didnt. Some Inventions do not have a large enough market to patent. That doesnt mean You cant make money and sell them. Since machining has been done for hundreds of years now , It not impossible that something similar hasnt been done in the past and then Your patent even though issued could be challenged
You might want to check out the geometric die head.
I used one a lot when I worked in the trade. Sometimes you still have to single-point.
Very screw-machine-like.
Thanks, that's what she said.
unnecessary, learn to thread away from the chuck
I've done it, but it's pretty dicey with a threaded spindle nose. It also requires a thread relief, which I was trying to avoid.
@@phineasj.whoopee3301 Good points
One inch of retraction… pfff
beyond pointless for internal threading, tho.
I can't be all things to all people.
Taking the skill out of machining. Brilliant.
Just reducing the stress and anxiety, skill still required.
@@phineasj.whoopee3301 Anxiety? sheesh. I loved single pointing, did a few quad leads in school just cause.