Are Pentium 4 Boards with ISA slots worth it?

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 289

  • @DropDeadFrederick
    @DropDeadFrederick หลายเดือนก่อน +19

    Besides games, boards like that are great for industrial purposes. You'd be shocked at how many vintage systems are still in use daily on manufacturing floors.
    I have a few systems where I work that still use ISA cards (I'm 100% serious about this). One of the systems uses ISA cards for a vision system that controls a precision adhesive applicator.
    Besides the ISA slots that parallel port is very useful too. I have another AOI (automated optical inspection) system that communicates with the vision and motion control system. You can't try to use something like a parallel to USB adapter since the software does some strange things like try to control specific data lines on the parallel port so a USB adapter is a complete non-starter.

    • @viscountalpha
      @viscountalpha หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      usb adds a ton of latency. I still sell serial and parallel cables to this day.

  • @mtunayucer
    @mtunayucer หลายเดือนก่อน +97

    The agp slots on these non-agp chipsets are usually only capable of pci speeds. Check it on the nvidia control panel.

    • @philscomputerlab
      @philscomputerlab  หลายเดือนก่อน +55

      See! I knew I would learn from the comments ❤️ That would explain the low 3D score...

    • @mtunayucer
      @mtunayucer หลายเดือนก่อน +34

      @@philscomputerlab also, because they are pci based, the voltage on the slot is 3.3v, even though its keyed for 1.5v, so NEVER use agp1.5v only cards on these boards such as radeon 9600 and geforce 6600-6800 lineup, it may damage them.

    • @argoneum
      @argoneum หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      At a glance it looks that AGP is just another PCI slot (shared traces), so AGP with no acceleration :)

    • @TSteffi
      @TSteffi หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      ​@@argoneumif I remember correctly, AGP is basically just PCI with some extra bits and the option for higher clocks. The main benefit was that it was a separate bus, so it wouldn't have to share bandwidth with all the other components in the system

    • @MadMac5
      @MadMac5 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

      That would make it ideal for a Voodoo 3, since it doesn't take advantage of AGP features anyway!

  • @Crazy_Borg
    @Crazy_Borg หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Pentium 4 S478 boards were a real heap of weirdness.
    I remember ASRock boards with both AGP and PCI express slots on them. P4Dual series, they worked great!
    PCIe slots in those days were quite rare.

  • @appwraith
    @appwraith หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    The AWE64 is an absolutely legendary card in my book. I wanted one so badly back in the day :)

  • @blakegriplingph
    @blakegriplingph หลายเดือนก่อน +73

    An LGA 1151 motherboard with ISA slots is even more cursed.

    • @p_mouse8676
      @p_mouse8676 หลายเดือนก่อน +20

      That does exist, the MSI MS-98L9 V2.0 😊

    • @Monarchias
      @Monarchias หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      I have also a weird board, x470 with 2 PCI port. Biostar x470GTA! Lovely, massive board.

    • @tyler6602
      @tyler6602 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      ​@@Monarchias idk if it's weird at all but I have a matx b360 motherboard with a PCI slot

    • @cal2127
      @cal2127 หลายเดือนก่อน

      you could put a voodoo 2 on that. theres windows 10 drivers out there​@@Monarchias

    • @proyasin1504
      @proyasin1504 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      Well those boards are the absolute match for industrial purposes

  • @casualretrocollector
    @casualretrocollector หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I had excellent luck with one. Found one in a charity shop for about 15 euro. The end result was a 2.4 ghz p4 with an ati Radeon 9000 along with an Isa sound blaster 64 gold. Simply in heaven I was :)

  • @warre1
    @warre1 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    I used to had ASRock motherboard with both agp and pci- express ( worked only in 4x mode) slots . It also supported both DDR and DDR2 ( not the same time)

  • @lucaspam
    @lucaspam หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    I do own an industrial-grade pentium 4 motherboard with ISA slots. Sadly there's no AGP slot - there's an exquisite slot on place of it that I don't know nothing about. It has an CF card slot embedded instead of one of the IDE slots, for a change! So, about using it, it works like a charm. It's unbelievable. I have tested a sound blaster 16, an AWE 32, two AWE 64 and they all worked well with Win98 and DOS. There's a catch: the Pentium 4 of the era have high TDP. Coolers for the socket are noisy and obnoxious. I was able ro get a 1.4 GHz Tualatin kit and the pentium 4 board now is my backup. But it works well, with surprising high ISA compatibility. I am not into 286 and 386-era games, so I don't need a slow CPU. I do recommend it to anyone that wants to build a retro PC but is afraid of the old motherboards.

  • @unimportant5122
    @unimportant5122 หลายเดือนก่อน +34

    AGP is a superset of PCI, so even if the chipset does not support AGP they can still place a AGP slot and connect it to the PCI bus. It'll work fine but without the AGP specific features.

    • @pc-sound-legacy
      @pc-sound-legacy หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Is it 33mHz then, or is 66mhz supported anyway?

    • @matthewday7565
      @matthewday7565 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@pc-sound-legacy Just 33, found on another 845GL "AGP" in retroweb

    • @unimportant5122
      @unimportant5122 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      @pc-sound-legacy 33. And the bandwith has to be shared with the other regular PCI slots.

    • @elektronischermeister
      @elektronischermeister หลายเดือนก่อน

      PCI slots are wired in parallel with each other?
      Can I just wire two PCI slots together and connect a industrial SBC with a PCI video card?

    • @roflmagister5
      @roflmagister5 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      PCI is wired parallel for cost/simplicity. You *could* manufacture a mainboard with so-many PCI buses times one slot each, which would give you so-many "AGPs", but that would drive up cost surely.
      Also, note how AGP is connected to the North Bridge, and the (usually single) PCI bus is connected to South Bridge, itself connected to North Bridge, so, in fact, AGP and PCI would *still* share some bandwidth, namely on the NorthBridgeCPU wires.

  • @Vanessaira-Retro
    @Vanessaira-Retro หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Great review video Phil.

  • @RetroPcCupboard
    @RetroPcCupboard หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    Nice! It's great that all of the ISA soundcards worked in it. You are right that it would be great for an all-in-one machine. Though, in reality I think you would be better off with a Pentium MMX machine for DOS, a Pentium 4 for Windows 98 and a Core 2 or early i5/i7 system for XP. Of course that would take triple the space and cost more overall.

    • @wolfgangkrebl3056
      @wolfgangkrebl3056 หลายเดือนก่อน

      i agree! this is also my strategy. i use pcs from an aera with games from thus aera. fortunately i have fitting closet for my 30 PCs

    • @Elios0000
      @Elios0000 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      P2 era an early Celeron A imo would be perfect DOS 98/95

    • @RetroPcCupboard
      @RetroPcCupboard หลายเดือนก่อน

      @wolfgangkrebl3056 30 PCs!? Wow. That must take up some space! But, yeah, there are some games that are very picky on hardware so it's handy to have different configurations of PC.

    • @Romerco77
      @Romerco77 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      IMHO, the best for DOS+Win98 is the usual Super Socket 7 Voodoo build, and for Windows XP is the AMD A10-7890K APU in a Mini-ITX build. Everything covered taking the space of 1'25 machine.

    • @wolfgangkrebl3056
      @wolfgangkrebl3056 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@RetroPcCupboard yes, it was very hard work to make my wife agree to sacrifice the clothing closet for my hobby 😁 but it works.👍 and i really enjoy starting up my 286-16 to play maniac mansions or leisure suit larry. ❤ Anyhow, i think using a fitting PC from the most important eras of PC gaming is not that space consuming and mostly not so expensive. when i compare to my brother who is a enthuastic model railroader... oh my god.🤣

  • @shponglefan
    @shponglefan หลายเดือนก่อน +28

    I've spent this past year exploring building an all-in-one retro PC with an industrial LGA775 P4 motherboard w/ ISA slots. It's fantastic having DOS, Win98, and WinXP all on one system. And disabling cache turns it into the performance equivalent of a mid-range 486. It even runs Ultima VII at a playable speed with no issues. It's honestly the most versatile retro PC I have. I really think the P4 w/ ISA is an underrated platform for retro gaming.

    • @Romerco77
      @Romerco77 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      The graphics card would be the limiting factor for such a Dos+98+Xp system. It would be either a good Dos+win98 machine or a good WinXP machine depending on the graphics card you use, but not both. What graphics card did you use?

    • @shponglefan
      @shponglefan หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@Romerco77 You're correct that the GPU is the biggest limiting factor. I'm currently using a GeForce 4 4200 Ti + Voodoo 2 PCI. It can cover DOS, Win9X, and into early XP era (up to about 2003). I'm also experimenting with a setup using a Radeon HD 3850 AGP and GeForce FX PCI. This has better performance for XP gaming and DOS + early 98, but a bit of a performance and compatibility hole for late 90s.

    • @SireSquish
      @SireSquish หลายเดือนก่อน

      This would be on around the same par as my old Athlon XP 1333 system, which I still have and is therefore full period accurate :). I never tried disabling caches in the bios for old speed sensitive games though, so that would be interesting. I'll still have to see if the board works given the passage of time and the capacitor plague of the era.

    • @djpirtu2
      @djpirtu2 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I have one all-arounder too, Abit KT7A with Athlon XP-M (Barton), so there's one ISA slot and CPU multiplier can be altered quite freely. On top of that I can change FSB and turn off caches so it runs everything between old dos games and Far Cry.

    • @Lurch-Bot
      @Lurch-Bot หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      When you have 4 PIII machines, a 486, 386, two PMMX laptops running 98, a Sun Ultra 60 with a PMMX PC card, a Vaio laptop with a Northwood 2.8 desktop CPU running XP (works but mainly just a collectible), a 3rd gen i7 Vaio laptop running 7 and more Socket 478 and LGA775 hardware than you can shake a stick at, it is just a way to spend money on a Frankenstein's monster for no good reason. Also, the idea of actually spending money on a LGA775 MB seems wrong (at least spending any more than the $25 I spent for a fancy, unlocked LGA775 SLI MB or the $30 I spent on the C2X6800 I got to go with it).
      Maybe if you are very space limited, it might make sense but I have more space to set up PCs than I have money. And if you gotta go into BIOS and disable cache to run DOS games, at that point, you might as well just shift your chair over and boot up a different machine. I like having my own personal little PC gaming living history museum.
      Also, there is no way you're ever getting Wing Commander running simply by disabling cache. All I have to do is boot up my 386 SX-20 and it runs perfectly. If I want to play '80s PC games, I just press a button and it runs like an 8086.
      So, no, you don't really have an all in one retro gaming machine, nor will such a thing ever really exist in hardware form without using emulation and/or applications to limit clockspeed and cache.
      And since TheRasteri demonstrated last year that ISA hardware can be run on a modern system via the LPC bus, an LGA775 board with ISA slots really isn't impressive.
      I also wouldn't run most XP games on a P4 these days. There is no reason to and they mostly support modern resolutions and look good on modern displays. Except for playing the Brothers in Arms games and a few others, I don't even use XP for retro gaming. I have a special XP machine for StarForce and SecuROM games and it has a 3rd gen i5 because I want the overhead from those crappy DRM protocols to have negligible CPU utilization. On a P4 it really sucks performance. Otherwise, a C2Q is more than enough for playing any other XP game in Windows 7. In fact, Windows 7 supports most 9x games. I generally loathe XP because I used it for nearly a decade as a frontline OS. I don't find it quaint or nostalgic, just annoying. To me it is almost as useless as Vista. Should have called it 'Antevista' = 'preview', as in a preview of Windows 7.
      Ever play COD2 at 1440P? Once you do, you'll never go back to playing it on a CRT.

  • @thej3799
    @thej3799 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    you have the coolest hobby. I wish I could afford to play around with old hardware from when i was younger. this is the next best thing, I guess.

  • @rjazz1
    @rjazz1 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Love your videos mate, no one else does what you do!!!

  • @dennisp.2147
    @dennisp.2147 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    The AGP slot is likely running as a PCI slot, as AGP is a subset of PCI. I'd be careful of the voltages on it too!

  • @realcyphox5919
    @realcyphox5919 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    always a pleasure to watch a new video from my favourite mr clean doppelganger

    • @lordwiadro83
      @lordwiadro83 หลายเดือนก่อน

      It was Mr Proper, no?

  • @lexatwo
    @lexatwo หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Be sure to press Ctrl+F1 at the initial BIOS setup screen for Phoenix/Award - it will unlock a lot of additional options in most cases.

    • @philscomputerlab
      @philscomputerlab  หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Afaik that's a Gigabyte only thing? At least it hadn't worked for me on non GB boards...

  • @saxxonpike
    @saxxonpike หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I have both the 3-port ATX and 1-port mATX variants, used them for a couple years. The AGP slot is a trap! The integrated GPU is actually surprisingly capable for games through 1999 and looks great in DOS, so I don't bother with adding graphics cards to these. With onboard LAN and sound card disabled, this is actually a quite good (if not odd) platform for retro gaming. But definitely not suitable as a Pentium 4 "retro rocket" platform. Also, I never did get the USB 2.0 drivers working, for some reason.

  • @pjcnet
    @pjcnet หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    My first PC after finally moving on from the Amiga had an AMD K6-2/500 in the late 1990s, at first I used AOL dial up and then I was one of the first to get an amazing ASDL that at first was 0.5 megabits, it felt so amazingly fast and you could even stream a very grainy video that I'd think was incredible, my second PC was a Pentium 4 running at 2400Mhz with an Ati Radeon 9550 GPU, I remember playing GTA3 on it and being amazed. Oh how far we've come.

  • @mesterak
    @mesterak 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Happy Friday Phil!

  • @CaptainDangeax
    @CaptainDangeax หลายเดือนก่อน

    Out of subject from this vidéo, thank you for the ess solo1 driver I found on your website, it allowed me to revive a Piii PC dos + win98se to a playable machine for dos games

  • @AshtonCoolman
    @AshtonCoolman หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I have a Portwell LGA775 motherboard with an ISA slot that has a DOS Compatible bridge chip. It's pretty neat💪

  • @MisterLettuce
    @MisterLettuce หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Oh dang, I wish I had that board in my P4 system back in the day. I had to give up using my AWE32 when I upgraded to it, and that almost broke my heart.

  • @TexasAgg2003
    @TexasAgg2003 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    ISA is a pain... but good audio is worth it. Great video. P3 systems and earlier seem to have fewer ISA problems. It was nice the BIOS had the legacy options. I really want to see the dISApointment project take off. I would love to have an AM4 (x370) board with ISA.

    • @mirific87
      @mirific87 หลายเดือนก่อน

      there are modern motherboards with ISA but they lack DMA

  • @mrgtmodernretrogamingtech6891
    @mrgtmodernretrogamingtech6891 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Nice, something I can relate, got that stuff in 2007 from a Korean Computer Surplus Shop here in the Philippines (student me can't afford latest brand new tech back then), as far as I can remember it's an amber colored motherboard with VIA Chipset, Celeron Processor and Diamond S3 Trio 3D (don't have budget for P4 and FX Card back then), I used my ISA Cards like Sound Blaster and TV Capture Card ripped from my Sold Pentium 3 Rig... Simple good old tech days...

  • @christopherbaar4498
    @christopherbaar4498 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    This is very interesting! I didn't even know that such motherboards exist. Right now, I have 2 separate retro machines. I have a Slot I Pentium III 550 Mhz (I think) using a 440BX with every ISA slot filled with sound cards, using an AWE64, a Gravis Ultrasound, and a MPU-401 clone. It is running Win98SE. The second is a socket 478 Pentium 4 at I think 3 GHz dual booting Win98SE and WinXP using an Audigy 2 ZS for the sound card. Using a USB4VC, I can connect my modern controllers to either machine, which is great!

  • @doleod6340
    @doleod6340 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Who else thinks that Realtek crab icon is adorable. Claws up.🦀

  • @ctrlaltrees
    @ctrlaltrees หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Fantastic video as always. What a strange and lovely little thing - but why put an AGP slot on a motherboard with a chipset that doesn't support AGP!?
    (I know about PCI fallback mode, but it still seems like a very strange design choice!)

    • @philscomputerlab
      @philscomputerlab  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I didn't know about this fallback mode, you learn something new every day. I can think of two scenarios. One is to trick people and the other one it's to support AGP cards because PCI cards are scarce, basically a feature haha

  • @starydrwal
    @starydrwal หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I built my multi os system on a8v motherboard with radeon 4670 agp voodoo 3 pci ess solo and audigy 2 and each of the three operating systems works perfectly, no speed issues and almost full compatibility.

  • @olegsaiko4270
    @olegsaiko4270 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Hi Phil, nice to see U in this video again!!! This PC will work long time with another OS, like Linux or (Free)BSD,
    Long Live for Old PSs

  • @Elios0000
    @Elios0000 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    thing is the SB Live! if you can find it was great in DOS by the late 90's and was amazing in 95/98 with its support of sound font banks for stuff that supported that.

    • @TheRetarp
      @TheRetarp หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      SBLive is the way to go. I've been running one for years with my Athlon XP system. Fantastic General Midi and SB16 emulation in DOS mode! Plus the EAX for win98 and early XP era games.

    • @alfo2804
      @alfo2804 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      The only problem with the Sound Blaster Live! is that the SB16 emulation is a bit buggy. I've found that it can be very fickle with certain emulators running in real DOS 6.22. ZSNES, for example, causes it to crash when doing certain things like opening the menu, requiring you to restart the PC for the sound to work again. I recognise that this is a niche issue, however.
      Something that's not so niche, though, is that the SB16 emulation can cause a lot of lag in certain demanding DOS games. Doom runs slowly unless you use General Midi for the music, and Wolfenstein 3D lags terribly whenever you bump against a wall or press the use key. The only fix is to set the sound effects to the PC Speaker or disable sound effects entirely. Luckily, both of those options only affect the more minor sounds in the game, so the enemy and gun sounds play normally and don't seem to cause any lag.
      Additionally, I've had it drop completely silent a couple of times in Jill of the Jungle, although on both occasions, it was fixed by quitting the game and then running it again.

    • @TheRetarp
      @TheRetarp หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@alfo2804 Interesting I learned something new today. I did not know that the SBLive would slow down games in some instances. I just checked on my Athlon XP machine and indeed in DOS mode doom will slow down even when using General Midi and awful when using soundblaster music. However when running the game within windows 98se there is zero slowdown when using either General Midi or Soundblaster! I guess I hadn't noticed before because I tend to run all my games within windows rather than rebooting to dos mode. The ZNES issues though that is a whole other thing I have no idea about because I use modern emulators on my Steam Deck. Cheers mate!

  • @pc-sound-legacy
    @pc-sound-legacy หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    If they weren't so d.. expensive, P4 with ISA Slots are great boards to cover a wide range of retro-games!

  • @erikmerchant567
    @erikmerchant567 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I've seen these no-name brands on Ebay before and see they also make a socket 775 version with ISA. Any thoughts on trying that out too? I am not sure Win98 or earlier will be supported with the chipset, but you do seem to figure out ways to make it work. Great video sir!

    • @dualpapayas
      @dualpapayas หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Phil's site has the Intel chipset driver version 6.3.0.1007 for Windows 98 (the last one ever released). It has a list of compatible chipsets beneath it.

  • @RetroTinkerer
    @RetroTinkerer หลายเดือนก่อน

    Hi Phil, thanks for the review a bit on the expensive side, I think I have my bases covered on the ISA front, 386, 486, Socket 5/7, Slot-1/A, a few S370 and Socket A... but I would jump on the opportunity of getting a S423/478/775B with ISA if the price was right for me. 😅

  • @ahabwolf7580
    @ahabwolf7580 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Very nice. It does seem like WinXP era games might not run as well as you could get them if you did a much faster cpu with a more modern pci-e gpu and a sata ssd. But as a solid Win98 board with a super easy toggle for older speed sensitive games, this is really awesome.

  • @micahottaway8455
    @micahottaway8455 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    You could put in the config.sys file "DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE 15360 RAM ". Using M5 or M6 instead of M4 might also work. That may improve compatibility with more games in DOS.

    • @philscomputerlab
      @philscomputerlab  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I tried the M options, but no dice...

  • @someguy3186
    @someguy3186 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    The price is steep, but it seems optimal for someone who wants an all-in-one DOS/98/XP machine. I already have a separate machine for each, so it's not something I'd buy myself, but it's nonetheless interesting. I didn't even know that P4 machines with ISA slots existed.

  • @rodhester2166
    @rodhester2166 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thanks for the review, cheers.

  • @wolfgangkrebl3056
    @wolfgangkrebl3056 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    hm - i mainly use the ISA slot for general midi soundcards under MS DOS. but a pentium 4 running with DOS only would be odd. But it would be a good possibility if you run a DOS/win95 or win 98 combi. And if you have a AGP board that runs with a voodoo 4/5 you can use a broad wide of games. therefore -yes, a useful piece of electronic

  • @jirikajzar3247
    @jirikajzar3247 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Even more cursed is AT format board with socket 478. I found two models existed but are really rare.

  • @cain9211
    @cain9211 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I'm using the MS-6571 MB with 1 ISA slot now. It works very fine with P4 2.8B CPU, DDR 2GB ram, Geforce 7800GS AGP, ESS 1878 ISA soundcard and dreamblaster X2 wavetable daughterboard at DOS, Win 98 and XP system environment. The only downside to this system in my opinion is that it only has an AGP 4x slot, so I can't get the full performance of the geforce 7800 card.

    • @cain9211
      @cain9211 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Like many people, I have spent a lot of time and money building systems that can run wide ranges of environments from DOS to Windows XP or Windows 7. In addition to the system listed above, I have also used an Athlon XP system with an ISA slot, and an Athlon 64 X2 or Core2 CPU with an ESS solo-1 card via motherboards with a VIA P4M900 chipset. All of them worked well enough.

    • @cain9211
      @cain9211 หลายเดือนก่อน

      But anyway, what I felt is that unless you absolutely have to use only one retro PC, it's better to separate the system that covers DOS to Win 98 environment and the system that applies to Win XP and later environments. Pentium 3 and Geforce FX work great for DOS and Windows 98, and for the XP era, you can use the beastly Intel Sandybridge CPUs and the legendary Geforce 750ti.

    • @philscomputerlab
      @philscomputerlab  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@cain9211 Very nice overview of your systems!

  • @coisademerd.a4079
    @coisademerd.a4079 หลายเดือนก่อน

    amazing motherboard, thanks 4 video

  • @arlandi
    @arlandi หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I have one of these industrial motherboard installed within a heavy steel industrial casing. It was also a Pentium 4 IIRC with ISA, PCI and AGP. that thing is too heavy to move around, probably because of the case.

  • @tankermottind
    @tankermottind หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I think with powerful systems like these, modern Doom and Quake mods should be included in the testing. Sure, it can run Duke 3D, but can it run Honey? What about Knee Deep in KDIZD or Ancient Aliens? Or the severely unoptimized Q2DOS source port for Quake II?

  • @viscountalpha
    @viscountalpha หลายเดือนก่อน

    depends on your application. some legacy cards need those isa slots and it makes more sense to keep current machines going instead of spending $crazy$ If it still does the job.

  • @bauerns5er
    @bauerns5er หลายเดือนก่อน

    Well with the not so real AGP Port it is not really an Multi Platform solution, but it is a real nice DOS alternative today. Even the working PSUs get rare, so you might be able to build a ATX-based DOS-Machine that lasts a few decades more. And for the prices we have to pay in Germany for Retro Hardware it isn't too expensive. I wonder how it runs Quake 1 on higher resolutions?

  • @hkszerlahdgshezraj5219
    @hkszerlahdgshezraj5219 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    For those late, 3D, software render only DOS games, it seems like a really good option.

  • @luismagallanes2371
    @luismagallanes2371 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Kinda expensive but also pretty neat for people that want an all-in-one DOS/Win98 PC. Tho from what im reading in the comments, the AGP slot seems like is spec out to about the pci level so might limit your options there. Should be ok to pair with Geforce4 as shown here.

  • @FOIL_FRESH
    @FOIL_FRESH หลายเดือนก่อน

    yo phil! another great video. whats the scaler you're using for capturing the 400p DOS feed??

    • @philscomputerlab
      @philscomputerlab  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      th-cam.com/video/Ix5Zd5_JZOc/w-d-xo.html

    • @FOIL_FRESH
      @FOIL_FRESH หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@philscomputerlab legend

  • @MarcoGPUtuber
    @MarcoGPUtuber หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    Yes. They are the ultimate test bench. I have 7

  • @JohnSmith-xq1pz
    @JohnSmith-xq1pz หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Wait that's a thing?
    Now I really want a ISA slot Sound Blaster card

  • @christopheoberrauch784
    @christopheoberrauch784 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thanks for your tireless and constant work. XP on such a PC just doesn't make much sense to me although I had a similar system with XP back then. A 486 with Win95 is similarly assessed by me. XP games simply reach their limits too quickly with an AGP port. Games that work on such a system are better off with Windows 98.

  • @g412bb
    @g412bb หลายเดือนก่อน

    Interesting solution. Once I heard you mentioning PCI to ISA bridge I was thinking that meant compatibility was thrown out of the window. But looks like it works quite well, where did this board come from ? China board ?

    • @saxxonpike
      @saxxonpike หลายเดือนก่อน

      All research on these boards seems to point back to designs from Aimmer. Boards with this WinBond ISA bridge seem to work well from my testing.

  • @itstheweirdguy
    @itstheweirdguy หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Computer games used to have the most awesome music and sound. WHAT THE HELL happened? Not anymore!

  • @Super123456789Kuba
    @Super123456789Kuba หลายเดือนก่อน

    Sounds convienent as a DOS+98+XP PC, but at the same time... I feel like there's a limiting factor in terms of AGP Performance, which I think could limit that to DOS and 98 PC at best.
    As well as - Socket 7 boards is what I would look for more. This board (The P4 Board I mean.) sure does have a lot of BIOS Options, but also I think that would be a hassle to deal with.

    • @shponglefan
      @shponglefan หลายเดือนก่อน

      An i865 board would be an ideal choice as it supports 8x AGP.

  • @ronm6585
    @ronm6585 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thanks Phil.

  • @marnixvansintaldegonde1934
    @marnixvansintaldegonde1934 หลายเดือนก่อน

    How many motherboards do you have Phil? Estimate?

  • @middle_pickup
    @middle_pickup หลายเดือนก่อน

    The documented lack of sound card support might have been due to the possibility that Intel just didn't test sound cards in order to validate them. Interesting motherboard. I thought it was a Gigabyte at first from the look of it. Love the old blue boards like that.

  • @alexbinder
    @alexbinder หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    From the looks I would have guessed these boards where used in the day for industrial system/devices where OS and old parts where required to run.

    • @Davidpaddy2001
      @Davidpaddy2001 หลายเดือนก่อน

      In India, back in the day, I remember them calling it an "industrial motherboard"

    • @cain9211
      @cain9211 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Most industrial motherboards with ISA slots from aliexpress come from retired Chinese ATM machines.

  • @magruberis
    @magruberis หลายเดือนก่อน

    Damn that prince of persia brings a lot of memories :D

  • @ihsan_lol
    @ihsan_lol หลายเดือนก่อน

    Wow those are some very nice features, and for someone like me who doesn't have a lot of space for different computers from different eras, this could be a great motherboard. But the price is definitely prohibitive. Would you mind sharing where you've purchased it from?

    • @philscomputerlab
      @philscomputerlab  หลายเดือนก่อน

      These can be found online by searching Pentium 4 ISA. AliExpress, eBay are all possible places.

  • @BurkenProductions
    @BurkenProductions หลายเดือนก่อน

    YES! THEY ARE WORTH IT! What kind of crazy question is that?! You ALWAYS need ISA slots!

  • @mpettengill1981
    @mpettengill1981 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Interesting board, probably a good option for some niche use cases. Still for $200-$300 one could find decent late-90s / early 00s machine fully built out and in good shape. Or way less money if your willing to hunt / do some cleanup and minor repairs. And maybe for free if you get lucky 😂

  • @orinokonx01
    @orinokonx01 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I know this might not be the best question to ask, but I really do need to ask it. Phil, what specific version of XP are you running on retro PC's nowadays? Considering its a 20+ year old OS, at this stage... you know... I have this special version called VistaXP which comes bundled with a bunch of Vista theme crud, and I'd rather have a cleaner install on my retro PC's..!
    Also, I would have loved this P4 board back in 2003 when I built my first P4! First thing I saved for when I finished school, and it was a good machine, but having ISA slots would have been incredible! Before the P4 I was using an AMD K6/2 500 and an AWE32, so I missed not having an ISA slot!

  • @VShuricK
    @VShuricK หลายเดือนก่อน

    6:11 its a common issue with ac'97 codecs under win9x. Those codecs works much better under NT-based (2k/XP)
    14:45 IMO KT133A based with unlocked barton/torton may be better

  • @tenminutetokyo2643
    @tenminutetokyo2643 หลายเดือนก่อน

    What a beast!

  • @ENB2002
    @ENB2002 หลายเดือนก่อน

    What is this board from? I’m very curious since the BIOS chip has a copyright date of 2022. As for whether or not I would buy it, I think I would pass. I purchased a fully functional slot 1 Pentium II 350 retro gaming PC, AND a complete set of parts to build an LGA 775 gaming PC with a Q6600 and Nvidia GeForce 8800gt for the same $200-$300 price range this motherboard alone is in. I’m located in the US, so prices may vary depending on your location, but for me, it is not something I would consider buying.

  • @АндрейМилованов-у9у
    @АндрейМилованов-у9у หลายเดือนก่อน

    many industrial Pentium 4 have ISA. For example Nexcom PEAK-715-HT is 845G chipset with ITE IT8888F PCI ISA bridge.

  • @davkdavk
    @davkdavk หลายเดือนก่อน

    Wow, I never knew about these !

  • @budiisnadi
    @budiisnadi หลายเดือนก่อน

    OMG the GeForce4 MX was my first graphics card.

  • @lemonmerrengue
    @lemonmerrengue 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Very cool Phil

  • @ahayesm
    @ahayesm หลายเดือนก่อน

    I think for a P4 system I'd much rather just use VDMSounds or DOSBox depending on the game. For native SB I would just use an older board with native ISA and not this bridged setup.

  • @izarate
    @izarate หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I'd guess the AGP works in PCI mode? Either that or the documentation is wrong.

  • @retroanderson
    @retroanderson หลายเดือนก่อน

    The issue I find with 478 or 370 boards is they were right in the capacitor plague era. I have started going for 775 instead.

  • @stephanemignot100
    @stephanemignot100 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Find PoP 1.3 and use the MT-32! ^

  • @gentuxable
    @gentuxable หลายเดือนก่อน

    There is a Socket 370 board with VIA Apollo 133 chipset that has ISA and is also new. Works fine for me with a 1.13 GHz Tualatin Pentium 3.

    • @thedustycpu
      @thedustycpu หลายเดือนก่อน

      I could of sworn KT133 is AMD

    • @gentuxable
      @gentuxable หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@thedustycpu it is the VIA VT82C694X which is also called Apollo Pro 133A. I had it wrong as the VT8363 was sometimes also called Apollo. But KT seems really AMD.

  • @xenoxaos1
    @xenoxaos1 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I remember someone coming in to dispose a computer that had a pentium and Isa... I borrowed it temporarily to backup a mfm HDD

  • @chrisrudi7162
    @chrisrudi7162 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The only 478 board with ISA that I have unfortunately has no DMA support on the ISA bus, so it's useless for most old sound cards. I'll have to get another one at some point.

    • @АндрейМилованов-у9у
      @АндрейМилованов-у9у หลายเดือนก่อน

      ITE IT8888F PCI-ISA bridge supports DMA on ISA. Problem is many ISA DMA cards have software & hardware problems when working via bridge or on systems not assumed for them. Sometimes problems can be solved by BIOS (for example by disabling the L2 cache or changing freq/multiplier/... in BIOS)

  • @MadMac5
    @MadMac5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    For those who also want to run Descent on a fast computer like this, try running it with descent -640x400 to force it to run at a higher resolution. It will look much better and won't be running at such a ridiculous speed! No guarantees that you'll be able to dodge homing missiles, though.

  • @sparki_
    @sparki_ หลายเดือนก่อน

    that looks like some people took (maybe reverse engineered) a micro atx board and just added the isa bridge and the slots down below. Weirdly i am also having the same emm386 error on my pentium 3 pc

  • @Spazilton1
    @Spazilton1 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Well, pulled the trigger on one.

  • @anonytuser711
    @anonytuser711 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I built a P4 computer to max out the specs for Windows 98/XP. I wish I had gotten a board with ISA slots!

  • @KainiaKaria
    @KainiaKaria หลายเดือนก่อน

    I have been experimenting with a Azza KT3-AV Socket A Motherboard and managed to get both the ESS AudioDrive ES1869F and a Yamaha ATC-6631 ISA Sound Card.

    • @VShuricK
      @VShuricK หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      kt133a have internal isa support. intel's 8xx - no, PCI/LPC

    • @KainiaKaria
      @KainiaKaria หลายเดือนก่อน

      More specifically a A-Trend HARMONY ATC-6631 (YMF719E-S).

    • @KainiaKaria
      @KainiaKaria หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@VShuricK KT133A can be a pain in the ass to work with.

    • @VShuricK
      @VShuricK หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@KainiaKaria you use kt133a mobo 🤣

    • @KainiaKaria
      @KainiaKaria หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@VShuricK I know. lol

  • @borlibaer
    @borlibaer หลายเดือนก่อน

    In my opinion, Win XP should be seperated from early Windows OS, designed for running on Intel PIII maximum.
    Of cause it is basically possibile to build an all in one machine, but all peripherical extensions will cause trouble an doesn't really make sense.

  • @borispetrovic9706
    @borispetrovic9706 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    This motherboard are use in Mashines like a CNC mashines.

  • @jrherita
    @jrherita หลายเดือนก่อน

    A little funny that ISA here runs at 1/50th the frequency of the 400 mhz FSB

  • @juanaviles5267
    @juanaviles5267 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I would like to see a AGP and pciexpress like asrock P4VM890

  • @DankyMankey
    @DankyMankey หลายเดือนก่อน

    You can probably build the ultimate DOS machine with that board. We need to somehow put a turbo button in there or else the old CGA/EGA era games would run too fast.

    • @shponglefan
      @shponglefan หลายเดือนก่อน

      Between cache disabling and ACPI / ODCM throttling, it's possible to throttle these processors quite a bit. I've taken a 3.4 GHz Pentium 4 down to speeds equivalent to a 12MHz 286.

    • @DankyMankey
      @DankyMankey หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@shponglefan pretty impressive; have you tried doing it with a modern CPU?

    • @philscomputerlab
      @philscomputerlab  หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@DankyMankey All LGA 775 CPUs can do that, maybe newer ones also...

    • @shponglefan
      @shponglefan หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@DankyMankey I haven't tried throttling a modern CPU. The most recent CPU I've tried throttling has been a Core 2 Extreme X6800.

  • @sonyericssoner
    @sonyericssoner หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I would test the Tseng4000 if it gegts any boost from P4 comared to period correct cpus.

    • @philscomputerlab
      @philscomputerlab  หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Not a bad idea, not a bad idea at all!

  • @PROSTO4Tabal
    @PROSTO4Tabal หลายเดือนก่อน

    Voice is so muffled, have you tried mic before editing? Hope you find much better solution

  • @AstralPhnx
    @AstralPhnx หลายเดือนก่อน

    Fuck there goes the market for these very specific motherboards my arcade machine uses

  • @schnitzelsamy
    @schnitzelsamy หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Cool

  • @SergiuszRoszczyk
    @SergiuszRoszczyk หลายเดือนก่อน

    I spent so many hours trying to get NIC working on my Pentium board just to realize I need to fix PNP settings for IRQ9…

  • @krz8888888
    @krz8888888 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    My memory is getting hazy, did the athlon XP get isa slots ?

    • @FinicalAmoeba
      @FinicalAmoeba หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Several manufacturers made socket 462 boards with either 1 or 2 ISA slots, though they're getting expensive now as industrial users buy them up for their ISA based CNC controllers and other more exotic cards for their million dollar machines.

    • @cain9211
      @cain9211 หลายเดือนก่อน

      There are some motherboards like Soltek SL-75kav. Boards with via KT133A Northbridge + 686B Southbridge can use Barton Athlon XP-M CPU.

    • @thedustycpu
      @thedustycpu หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@cain9211 I have that exact setup. PITA to find the right Barton XP-M. Want to compare it to this board with a Pentium 4 EE with a Voodoo 5.

  • @SneakiestDuke68
    @SneakiestDuke68 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    If this have universal agp it will be the perfect motherboard for high performance win98 pc.

    • @matthewday7565
      @matthewday7565 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      33MHz PCI mode fake AGP

    • @Spazilton1
      @Spazilton1 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@matthewday7565 don't care about that, I care about the voltage on it, it would be perfect for a Voodoo 5 98 Machine if the voltage on the AGP slot is right.

    • @kunka592
      @kunka592 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Pentium 4 honestly sucks for high-end Win98 gaming. I know it sounds crazy but even games from 1997 (e.g., G-Police) can perform poorly with it. I have an LGA 775 ASRock ConRoe865PE board with AGP and use a Pentium Dual Core E5800 (basically Core2Duo) at 3.2GHz and it's much faster.

    • @philscomputerlab
      @philscomputerlab  หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@kunka592 Is G-Police such a demanding game?

  • @mordecaiepsilon
    @mordecaiepsilon หลายเดือนก่อน

    Is the infrared for networking? Is it for remote devices and peripherals?

    • @philscomputerlab
      @philscomputerlab  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      It's an old technology, before Bluetooth. Some printers and phones used it AFAIK.

  • @lukasgroot
    @lukasgroot หลายเดือนก่อน

    Fan of Phil but not of the mic!
    They annoy me very much but maybe its just me, sometimes our southern neighbours, the Belgians even use them on tv grrr.
    Also my first thought was: oh no Phil had a big shaving accident. 😬

  • @stamasd8500
    @stamasd8500 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Did you try Jemmex for memory management instead of EMM386/Himem?

    • @philscomputerlab
      @philscomputerlab  หลายเดือนก่อน

      I haven't! I'll keep it mind for a possible revisit video.

  • @jrherita
    @jrherita หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    No question - why have a Nvidia GPU when you can have a TSENG 4000 instead?

  • @mesterak
    @mesterak 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    That’s a lot of money just so you can get some ISA ports. It’s not worth it given there are so many other options for building retro machines for DOS and Win98.

    • @OneLife69-
      @OneLife69- หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      It all depends on how you want to do things and how much you're willing to spend as always.

    • @SoundBlasterAWE64Gold
      @SoundBlasterAWE64Gold หลายเดือนก่อน

      I'd love to use my AWE64 Gold on a more modern PC.
      But then again, I don't need that headache. Had enough trouble getting a Sound Blaster Live! running on Windows 10 on a PC with a burnt out audio chipset, and that's probably the most well known PCI sound card out there.

    • @shponglefan
      @shponglefan หลายเดือนก่อน

      There is a convenience factor to having a single system that can cover a wide range of gaming. My own experience with a similar industrial P4 build covers about a 15-year span (late 80's to 2003) with a variety of operating systems all in one box.