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Wow. Great video. You can also tell the difference by the shape of leaves. Pointed Red oak. Rounded white. Thanks for all your information. Have got lots of good tips from you.
Thank you! I'm not generally a fan of oak, I'm not into open pores messing up the look I want. May I suggest doing a series of these short bids about the pros and cons of different species? I'd love that!
This reminds me of the time I found out that Balsa wood is actually a hardwood, even though it is about a 3rd the density of pine. I love the look of projects done with long oak boards, regardless of the natural tint.
Great video James. A viewer of mine suggested your video after watching me select the wood to replace some broken parts on a glider rocker. I haven't used white oak in my workshop as it's not commonly used where I live (Greater Toronto Area). Thanks for educating me on the difference between red and white oak. Scott 🇨🇦
As far as outdoor projects, you should mention that oak has tannins in it, and will turn black when exposed to water, especially bottoms of legs on tables and chairs.
Thanks for the education on white and red oak. In the 70's my dad and I built a pole barn with cedar posts and rough sawn (mostly green) white oak for everything else except the galvanized metal roof and garage door. I pounded lots of 16d, 8d and ring shanked roofing nails. We used a Black & Decker circular saw and a small McCulloch chainsaw for all of it. One inch thick seasoned white oak siding is very hard to drive a nail into, compared to fresh sawn. The splinters are mean. The board and batten white oak siding weathered to a gray color and is extremely durable. After I moved away, my folks stained the outside a classic weathered red barn color. It's still in good shape after more than 45 years.
Oak absolutely gives the gnarliest splinters. I started taping my left hand (A tip from one of your videos!) fingers when ripping a decent amount of oak. It feels like every time I get lazy I end up with either a splinter or the worlds largest paper cut.
After many years in a shop making cabinetry, I retired. In the time between my full retirement benefits (some sources not available until later age... I worked part time for a logging company. I was primarily driving a truck, but worked in the yard on a limited basis. (BTW: I also had many loggers in my family growing up and had worked in the field for a short time after graduating from high school.)The owner loved getting into some good white oak, since prices for logs was second only to walnut. Regardless of species, oak was lumped into two "species" as far as lumber producers go. That is white oak, which is white oak, and red oak which is any oak other than white oak. Again, the saw mill specs, not mine. In my many years of wood working, I always considered white oak comparatively boring wood, where many finished products looked like fake wood due to the utter lack of variation. But the oak I would choose IF it was available, is chestnut oak. Finding such a thing is virtually impossible, since it is lumped in with the everything except white oak group, and pieces are seldom found in any useful quantity. For anyone not familiar with this species, the sapwood is typically a light, creamy color, while the heartwood is often as dark as black walnut. Also, due to the tree's growth habits, L-O-O-G, straight grained, clear boards can be produced. James, if you happen to have any chestnut oak available, please show it in a future video so viewers can see the attractive grain and the gorgeous coloring of this wood.
Thanks for this info! This is something very few people, if not, no one will tell me the detailed difference between these 2 woods. Looking forward to more educational clips from your channel, James! Big thanks!
Great information. Learned a a lot. I have some oak that was purchased at an estate sale and not sure which it is. Now I can go look at the grain and find out. Thank you James.
Hey Stumpy love the content you put out it’s quite interesting, but I don’t think I’ve seen a video from you about wood shapers? Just curious because I use them everyday in the shop I work at to make cabinet doors and was curious if you had any knowledge you had to offer
And I just thought of some follow up questions on that like fences, whether to buy or make your own and proper safety techniques to practice on these machines
FYI: even thought it’s is spelled the same, “primer” is pronounced “pry-mer" when referring to the protective adhesion layer between paint and a substrate, but is pronounced similarly to the word “dimmer” when referring to an educational introduction.
The tree tutorial I got in scouts used a mnemonic that is accurate as far as I know: red oak leaves correspond to “red skin” with sharp-tipped arrows, white oak leaves have rounded [old-timey] bullet-shaped leave tips like “white skin” bullets. Obviously this carries some baggage and should be learned in proper context, but it’s useful for identification anyway!
Did not know the difference in regards to the pour structure. I just finished cutting down two dead oak trees. One showed very light (white) inside the outer wood and the other showed very red in the same location. Both had light outer wood just inside the bark. Thought I had a red oak and a white oak. I will most definitely check the pour structure to see what I have. Thanks
Someone once told me that white oak can be more difficult to dry properly and, when done improperly, is prone to developing honeycombs in the interior. I learned this when a bunch white oak I had purchased was filled with honeycomb and asked this person how to cope with it. I want to go dig through your videos to see if you've talked about the different types of maple.
Working on a project right now with what i was told was white oak, but the pores are pretty open. it's creating all sorts of issues with my finish as the stain globs up in the pores, the oil finish stays wet in the pores. Tried sanding sealer and grain filler still an issue. I might just stay away from this wood until i get a very firm handle on finishing
DUDE: While I like your under-stair bookcases, the staircase is REALLY cool. Oh, and thank you for the education on wood species. I have used both and on the left coast, red is far more common. Just completed a set of outdoor rockers and used WHITE for greater external durability vs the morris chairs for the family room which are red.
I need to make a cross - i've been told white is best for external joinery - also, what is the best way to join oak together, what glues to use as this cross will be out in all weathers for YEARS ... also, the finish to use 👍👍👍
A quick note on costs. I am a salesperson at a lumber/building material yard. White oak cost has skyrocketed in the last year, sometimes more than 5 times the cost of red oak. Apparently white oak became the "designer wood of choice" in 2020 and the demand continues to grow. We have several suppliers that are holding quoted prices white oak for only a week due to market prices.
What is a good way to get red oak ready to finish, my plane is super sharp and taking nice shavings but the surface is rough because of the unfilled pores? I feel like sanding would be a good choice as it would help fill the pores with the dust.
"Northern" red oak is the cultivar in northeast Iowa. It is a fine wood for interior woodworking. The price for northern red oak on the stump is very low now at $.35 / bd foot.
I use a lot of red oak as it is plentiful here in Missouri. A lot of the white oak in my area gets cut up for staves. Lots of awesome whisky barrels made here…
Great video! Ok, so I'm building a skin on frame canoe and just epoxied in 25 ribs made of...... red oak. It was the only oak I could find locally to bend into ribs. I didn't realize how easily it rots until after I epoxied it all together. Any suggestions on sealing the ribs so they don't rot? The canoe won't always be in the water or outside but I understand red oak draws moisture.
Correct me if I understood it correctly? When you say "dense" is that determining the strength of the wood? Which in other words White Oak is alittle more stronger then Red Oak?
Good information. However, to the best of my knowledge, Tyloses are not resin. They are primarily if not completely cellulose and lignin. Prolific in White Oak (Quercus Alba) and other "white" oaks -- they also are found in other species. Red oak (Quercus Rubrum) apparently has Tyloses in some situations, I think due to other factors like bacteria or disease that may promote their growth? Definitely stretching my memory banks on that front. I don't recall ever seeing them in red oak personally but I recall reading about it long ago.
I have some white oak from my wood moulding company and it’s filled with the same holes and some of my pieces allow me to blow air through them does that mean it’s not true white oak?
I also find that red oak can vary in color a bunch from the same tree, having cut up a large tree I have really dark bottom part and it's lighter on the top.
Now, I stand to be corrected on this as I'm not an authority on timber but here in the UK I've always distinguished the 2 as American white oak and European oak.
I may or may not have used red oak to make a few components of a bench project I was doing for a client. I only need a few aprons and stretchers and I ran out of white oak. I resorted to white oak and after staining, they were completely unnoticeable. I couldn't even figure out what pieces were white oak and im the one that built them.
I built a kitchen island for my wife. Pulled a bunch of lumber from the barn and once I begin cutting I realize I have both. The wife wasn’t interested in getting back in the barn with me so I built it out of both. Extra care when staining took care of the difference. Interesting though. This lumber has been in the barn for years. Carpenter ants have done a number to the red oak. Didn’t touch the white oak or the ash.
Identification of family...pointed leaves = Red Oak. Rounded lobes on the leaves = White Oak. Since "round" and "white" have the same number of letters, I can easily remember which is which. I was told a while ago that you don't want to make a whiskey barrel out of red oak, often called "Holey Oak" around here because there's a town called Holyoke nearby.
Excellent, fact filled video. The odd thing to me is that white oak here in Maine is virtually worthless on the stump except as firewood. Even in that market, red oak is preferred. Must be those open pores …
I once built an outdoor bench out of red oak recycled from old kitchen cabinets. It was a disaster! After just one winter it was falling apart. After two it simply collapsed in a heap. The end grain had soaked up water like a sponge and he wood had rotted out from the inside.
Not all white oak has closed pours, especially in the sapwood. The main reason white oak is a lot harder to come by is the white oak species, in north america anyway, take significantly longer to mature. It can take a white oak tree 60 years before it's ready to harvest vs 20 for red oaks.
Great video! How do the different families accept stain? Seems red oak might absorb more and be more prone to inconsistencies such as blotching due to increased porosity, but just guessing as I have no experience with oak.
They both take stain pretty well. The pores run the length of the board, so are not a factor when staining. Both are open-grain, meaning the surface fibers could stand to be filled with grain-filler if you want a really smooth surface. But I don't have any issues with blotching on the rare occasion that I do stain white or red oak.
Thank you! I've been building a lot of stuff with off cuts from an oak flooring mill. It will be good to tell the difference between the two woods. I've been going off of tint alone this whole time.
Thank you, James! I found some plans for a farmhouse trestle table that I want to undertake and the plans (from a well known wood working magazine) use Douglas Fir dimensional lumber for the table. It gives it a nice rustic look but I was thinking oak would last longer. But I feel you may lose that farmhouse appeal. In your experience, how durable is Douglas Fir for a table? Is there a large cost difference between Douglas Fir and red oak? Thanks!
Douglas Fir is strong stuff. I am sure a table built with it will last a very long time, especially 1-1/2 thick lumber. It is, however soft enough that you will get scratches and dents on the surface of the table. Some would consider that character. Very hard woods like oak will still scratch and dent, but not nearly as much. My only concern with construction lumber is that you choose boards well (straight grain, no piths) and let them dry for a while before using them.
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one thing you failed to mention is how the pores of red oak absorbs wood finish differently . Please do an episode on that
You have been coming out with some of the top woodworking content for a while now. Useful information that's excellently presented.
I agree. The content is really good stuff. Top notch lately
Thanks for this! Literally about to start a project using oak. Now I can go to the lumber yard equipped with more knowledge. 👍🏻👍🏻
WOW. I took a screen shot of your red oak and white oak comparison to demonstrate to my interior design clients. Great shot!
Wow. Great video. You can also tell the difference by the shape of leaves. Pointed Red oak. Rounded white. Thanks for all your information. Have got lots of good tips from you.
Love the bubble blowing trick! Maybe I should pick through the stack and teach my nephews a new skill this summer!
I love both red and white oak. I do tend to work more with red though because white seems to go up everytime I visit the lumber store.
Thank you! I'm not generally a fan of oak, I'm not into open pores messing up the look I want. May I suggest doing a series of these short bids about the pros and cons of different species? I'd love that!
Thanks for the video! I've been woodworking for years and never found a video as helpful as this concerning red and white oak.
This reminds me of the time I found out that Balsa wood is actually a hardwood, even though it is about a 3rd the density of pine.
I love the look of projects done with long oak boards, regardless of the natural tint.
One of my favorite woods to use is quarter sawn white oak. The medullary rays( ray flecking) is just beautiful!
Great video James. A viewer of mine suggested your video after watching me select the wood to replace some broken parts on a glider rocker. I haven't used white oak in my workshop as it's not commonly used where I live (Greater Toronto Area). Thanks for educating me on the difference between red and white oak. Scott 🇨🇦
As far as outdoor projects, you should mention that oak has tannins in it, and will turn black when exposed to water, especially bottoms of legs on tables and chairs.
Great info! Though I still don't know which to pair with chicken and which to pair with red meat.
Because of the pores old timers said that barrels made of white oak hold whiskey and barrels made of red oak hold nails.
Thanks for the education on white and red oak. In the 70's my dad and I built a pole barn with cedar posts and rough sawn (mostly green) white oak for everything else except the galvanized metal roof and garage door.
I pounded lots of 16d, 8d and ring shanked roofing nails. We used a Black & Decker circular saw and a small McCulloch chainsaw for all of it.
One inch thick seasoned white oak siding is very hard to drive a nail into, compared to fresh sawn. The splinters are mean.
The board and batten white oak siding weathered to a gray color and is extremely durable. After I moved away, my folks stained the outside a classic weathered red barn color. It's still in good shape after more than 45 years.
Great tips, dude! Thanks a lot! 😊
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Wow! I learn so much every video! Thanks!
Thank you! There are very few options here (SoCal) without costing a kidney. Knowing the differences is very valuable to a hobby woodworker like me.
@@mikeygee4564 , unless I visit a premier lumber supplier, the walnut & oak here are very poor quality and expensive.
Good lesson, thanks. How about one on hard vs soft maple?
Oak absolutely gives the gnarliest splinters. I started taping my left hand (A tip from one of your videos!) fingers when ripping a decent amount of oak. It feels like every time I get lazy I end up with either a splinter or the worlds largest paper cut.
Very informative, thank you. Greetings from the UK where oak has a very special place in our history.
After many years in a shop making cabinetry, I retired. In the time between my full retirement benefits (some sources not available until later age... I worked part time for a logging company. I was primarily driving a truck, but worked in the yard on a limited basis. (BTW: I also had many loggers in my family growing up and had worked in the field for a short time after graduating from high school.)The owner loved getting into some good white oak, since prices for logs was second only to walnut. Regardless of species, oak was lumped into two "species" as far as lumber producers go. That is white oak, which is white oak, and red oak which is any oak other than white oak. Again, the saw mill specs, not mine.
In my many years of wood working, I always considered white oak comparatively boring wood, where many finished products looked like fake wood due to the utter lack of variation. But the oak I would choose IF it was available, is chestnut oak. Finding such a thing is virtually impossible, since it is lumped in with the everything except white oak group, and pieces are seldom found in any useful quantity. For anyone not familiar with this species, the sapwood is typically a light, creamy color, while the heartwood is often as dark as black walnut. Also, due to the tree's growth habits, L-O-O-G, straight grained, clear boards can be produced.
James, if you happen to have any chestnut oak available, please show it in a future video so viewers can see the attractive grain and the gorgeous coloring of this wood.
Thank you! I always learn valuable information from your videos.
Thanks for this info! This is something very few people, if not, no one will tell me the detailed difference between these 2 woods. Looking forward to more educational clips from your channel, James! Big thanks!
Dang stumpy, why you gotta call out cracker barrel like that?
Great information. Learned a a lot. I have some oak that was purchased at an estate sale and not sure which it is. Now I can go look at the grain and find out. Thank you James.
Wow James. I'm impressed with the number videos you are producing. Well done.
Thanks, this was quite informational and well produced. I was unaware of the pore difference.
Hey Stumpy love the content you put out it’s quite interesting, but I don’t think I’ve seen a video from you about wood shapers? Just curious because I use them everyday in the shop I work at to make cabinet doors and was curious if you had any knowledge you had to offer
And I just thought of some follow up questions on that like fences, whether to buy or make your own and proper safety techniques to practice on these machines
FYI: even thought it’s is spelled the same, “primer” is pronounced “pry-mer" when referring to the protective adhesion layer between paint and a substrate, but is pronounced similarly to the word “dimmer” when referring to an educational introduction.
Love learning little things like this. Thank ya, sir!
The tree tutorial I got in scouts used a mnemonic that is accurate as far as I know: red oak leaves correspond to “red skin” with sharp-tipped arrows, white oak leaves have rounded [old-timey] bullet-shaped leave tips like “white skin” bullets. Obviously this carries some baggage and should be learned in proper context, but it’s useful for identification anyway!
Pneumonic as in something to do with your lungs? Or mnemonic as in something that helps you remember?
Thanks @@wouterbaake7386, I fixed it. It didn’t feel right but spell check only helps so much!
Did not know the difference in regards to the pour structure. I just finished cutting down two dead oak trees. One showed very light (white) inside the outer wood and the other showed very red in the same location. Both had light outer wood just inside the bark. Thought I had a red oak and a white oak. I will most definitely check the pour structure to see what I have. Thanks
Someone once told me that white oak can be more difficult to dry properly and, when done improperly, is prone to developing honeycombs in the interior. I learned this when a bunch white oak I had purchased was filled with honeycomb and asked this person how to cope with it. I want to go dig through your videos to see if you've talked about the different types of maple.
Working on a project right now with what i was told was white oak, but the pores are pretty open. it's creating all sorts of issues with my finish as the stain globs up in the pores, the oil finish stays wet in the pores. Tried sanding sealer and grain filler still an issue. I might just stay away from this wood until i get a very firm handle on finishing
Excellent explanation on oak! Better than a boring book with big word I cant ponounce or remember! Good going!
I use strips of white oak where I need clean sharp hard edges kind of like your example. Great explanation.
Yet again a really helpful video. Thank you.
DUDE: While I like your under-stair bookcases, the staircase is REALLY cool. Oh, and thank you for the education on wood species. I have used both and on the left coast, red is far more common. Just completed a set of outdoor rockers and used WHITE for greater external durability vs the morris chairs for the family room which are red.
Really appreciated this video. Great explanation.
What a great video! Thanks.
Thanks for sharing this information James. 🙏🏻🙏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👍👍👋👋
I need to make a cross - i've been told white is best for external joinery - also, what is the best way to join oak together, what glues to use as this cross will be out in all weathers for YEARS ... also, the finish to use 👍👍👍
Always a fan of White Oak, thanks for the refresher as to why, also never heard of chestnut Oak, how about a brief on that as well
Very helpful James!
A quick note on costs. I am a salesperson at a lumber/building material yard. White oak cost has skyrocketed in the last year, sometimes more than 5 times the cost of red oak. Apparently white oak became the "designer wood of choice" in 2020 and the demand continues to grow. We have several suppliers that are holding quoted prices white oak for only a week due to market prices.
What is a good way to get red oak ready to finish, my plane is super sharp and taking nice shavings but the surface is rough because of the unfilled pores? I feel like sanding would be a good choice as it would help fill the pores with the dust.
thanks! helps me expand my wood types knowledge from very poor to less very poor!
"Northern" red oak is the cultivar in northeast Iowa. It is a fine wood for interior woodworking. The price for northern red oak on the stump is very low now at $.35 / bd foot.
You need a podcast so when I can’t watch I can listen and soak up some of your knowledge
Great info on those important details, although I’m new to this I did the same thing on an oak project, that you did on that beautiful bookcase 👍👍
I use a lot of red oak as it is plentiful here in Missouri. A lot of the white oak in my area gets cut up for staves. Lots of awesome whisky barrels made here…
Never knew that! Thank you for the upload. Great channel.
Good info.
I have red oak floors, didn’t know untill I had some termite work done, yes they ate the oak.
Great video! Ok, so I'm building a skin on frame canoe and just epoxied in 25 ribs made of...... red oak. It was the only oak I could find locally to bend into ribs. I didn't realize how easily it rots until after I epoxied it all together. Any suggestions on sealing the ribs so they don't rot? The canoe won't always be in the water or outside but I understand red oak draws moisture.
White oak also takes well to steam-bending, making it a popular choice in wooden boat building.
Great video 👍
Correct me if I understood it correctly? When you say "dense" is that determining the strength of the wood? Which in other words White Oak is alittle more stronger then Red Oak?
If you finish red oak with a few coats of poly, can you use it outdoors?
I love this channel.
What’s up with English oak picture though?
Good one! Thank you!
You had me at "Cracker Barrel"
Love the info. Thanks as usual!
thanks for sharing the video
I am also more dense and tend to dull quickly.
I wonder what you think of live oak in woodworking. Any thoughts?
Easter egg. Cool!
Great video! What if you have a furniture piece you want to re-stain and can't see the end grain? Is there a way to identify which one you have?
Good information. However, to the best of my knowledge, Tyloses are not resin. They are primarily if not completely cellulose and lignin. Prolific in White Oak (Quercus Alba) and other "white" oaks -- they also are found in other species. Red oak (Quercus Rubrum) apparently has Tyloses in some situations, I think due to other factors like bacteria or disease that may promote their growth? Definitely stretching my memory banks on that front. I don't recall ever seeing them in red oak personally but I recall reading about it long ago.
Thanks
As a Sawyer who saws predominantly oaks I 100% agree
I have some white oak from my wood moulding company and it’s filled with the same holes and some of my pieces allow me to blow air through them does that mean it’s not true white oak?
I also find that red oak can vary in color a bunch from the same tree, having cut up a large tree I have really dark bottom part and it's lighter on the top.
Was there a video on those bookcases?
Not yet.
Now, I stand to be corrected on this as I'm not an authority on timber but here in the UK I've always distinguished the 2 as American white oak and European oak.
Useful. Thanks.
I may or may not have used red oak to make a few components of a bench project I was doing for a client. I only need a few aprons and stretchers and I ran out of white oak. I resorted to white oak and after staining, they were completely unnoticeable. I couldn't even figure out what pieces were white oak and im the one that built them.
Good info/vid. Thanks
Great info. Subbed.
I built a kitchen island for my wife. Pulled a bunch of lumber from the barn and once I begin cutting I realize I have both. The wife wasn’t interested in getting back in the barn with me so I built it out of both. Extra care when staining took care of the difference. Interesting though. This lumber has been in the barn for years. Carpenter ants have done a number to the red oak. Didn’t touch the white oak or the ash.
I have tons of chestnut oak on my property, and it's technically a white oak. But the wood is red as red can be... LOL
It is worthy to note that, due to the capillary flowing property of Red Oak, White Oak is the preferred variety in use for building ships.
Identification of family...pointed leaves = Red Oak. Rounded lobes on the leaves = White Oak. Since "round" and "white" have the same number of letters, I can easily remember which is which. I was told a while ago that you don't want to make a whiskey barrel out of red oak, often called "Holey Oak" around here because there's a town called Holyoke nearby.
Thanks!
Excellent, fact filled video. The odd thing to me is that white oak here in Maine is virtually worthless on the stump except as firewood. Even in that market, red oak is preferred. Must be those open pores …
White oak is now about twice if not more expensive than Red Oak locally! Crazy
Amazing videos, do you have any on moisture meters? Possibly the Wagner Orion
I once built an outdoor bench out of red oak recycled from old kitchen cabinets. It was a disaster! After just one winter it was falling apart. After two it simply collapsed in a heap. The end grain had soaked up water like a sponge and he wood had rotted out from the inside.
your hot water makes me percolate :)
Not all white oak has closed pours, especially in the sapwood.
The main reason white oak is a lot harder to come by is the white oak species, in north america anyway, take significantly longer to mature. It can take a white oak tree 60 years before it's ready to harvest vs 20 for red oaks.
Great video! How do the different families accept stain? Seems red oak might absorb more and be more prone to inconsistencies such as blotching due to increased porosity, but just guessing as I have no experience with oak.
They both take stain pretty well. The pores run the length of the board, so are not a factor when staining. Both are open-grain, meaning the surface fibers could stand to be filled with grain-filler if you want a really smooth surface. But I don't have any issues with blotching on the rare occasion that I do stain white or red oak.
@@StumpyNubs Thank you!
Thank you! I've been building a lot of stuff with off cuts from an oak flooring mill. It will be good to tell the difference between the two woods. I've been going off of tint alone this whole time.
Awesome
Thank you, James! I found some plans for a farmhouse trestle table that I want to undertake and the plans (from a well known wood working magazine) use Douglas Fir dimensional lumber for the table. It gives it a nice rustic look but I was thinking oak would last longer. But I feel you may lose that farmhouse appeal. In your experience, how durable is Douglas Fir for a table? Is there a large cost difference between Douglas Fir and red oak? Thanks!
Douglas Fir is strong stuff. I am sure a table built with it will last a very long time, especially 1-1/2 thick lumber. It is, however soft enough that you will get scratches and dents on the surface of the table. Some would consider that character. Very hard woods like oak will still scratch and dent, but not nearly as much. My only concern with construction lumber is that you choose boards well (straight grain, no piths) and let them dry for a while before using them.
@@StumpyNubs awesome! Thank you for the quick response!
ju da man! Thank you!
I learned the hard way about buying all you want from the same store in one visit…😮.
Is white oak less flexible than red oak? Which one would be better for bed frame slats?
I don't think one is significantly less flexible than the other. I would just be sure to use pieces with good, straight grain.
@@StumpyNubs ok thanks was wondering the difference. :)
Good information, love my white oak though …
You sure its not red?? :)
Forgot to mention red oak stinks, sometimes really bad and white oak smells like whiskey or wine because they use it to make barrels
I really like white oak.