_Fact Check: __3:14__ USS Constitution's hull is made of both white oak and live oak. While the ship's ability to take a pounding of cannonball fire isn't because of the white oak alone. Our point remains the same, though, that white oak is strong, durable, and a good choice for projects that will be exposed to water or when toughness is important to you. Thanks for your time._ 👍
Live Oak comes from the Northern Gulf Coast. President Jefferson decreed that the area where it grows and the actual trees were essential for national security. There's a National Park that runs sporadically from Gulf Breeze FL to Mississippi, it's called the Gulf Shores National Park.
I've read that the armor cladding of the USS Constitution was made of live oak, which is where all the bouncing cannon balls came from. Perhaps the structure had a lot of white oak in it? I've seen pieces of live oak logs, where the grain was very rippled, that strong men were unable to plant a sharp ax into the end grain of it, no matter how hard we tried.
@@UFDionysus Watch the movie "Master and Commander at the Edge of the World" starring Russel Crowe. His nemesis, the Achereon is like the USS Constitution, DOUBLE-HULLED. The "dead space" between the hulls gives the USS Constitution it's enormous hull strength, just like modern reactive armor. Back to red and white oaks. White oak is harder, machines better, is denser, but as of 7/2020, about 20-25% higher than red oak. Red oak is competitively priced to birch, one of my favorite, but almost grainless (boring???) hardwoods. Pecan/hickory are white oak's big brothers. Both harder, denser, much harder to get wide planks in, and more expensive, but many will say the wood's beauty is worthwhile. The "Lexus" of oak is English old-growth White Oak, quarter sawn. I actually prefer the grain and machining of it to American Walnut. Go to French Burl Walnut (like my shotgun stock and forearm) and we've greatly upped the ante. Uhmm, I paid nearly as much for the stock/forearm as for the Remington 3200 over/under shotgun it's on...but gee, it's purty! Trivia: I'm not certain if it's true on the last US aircraft carriers, but up to the USS Ronald Regan
I really appreciate you getting right to the point without a lot of blather. Your info is exactly what I'm looking for and I don't have to scream in frustration while you discuss ... the weather. Thank you for being so concise!
The author does like to from scratch, th-cam.com/users/postUgkxbnOKZBE4evMO5V2vroHeCjq6d_MV6wJO shaping and trimming wood from large blocks into fine finished products. As another reviewer mentioned, most projects require a lot of high-dollar equipment that most of us don’t have the room or budget for. But, knowing how to do these things, even if we won’t be able to practise the full stack project, is still great.
Great succinct informative video. It’s noticeable and appreciated how you prepare what you’re going to say so you don’t stumble, ramble or leave out important bits. Wish more you tubers were as professional and conscientious as you. 🙏
Mark,..you are extremely well talented in explaining the subjects you cover. So much so, that I feel folks who want to know, and learn, have an excellent opportunity with what and how you present it. Even your sense of humor and light-heartedness intertwined with the detail and focus of the subject makes the videos much more enjoyable! Great job, sir!
Thanks WS, I had no idea what the difference was between quarter, straight and rift. Direct, to the point, and you provided samples, the way vids should be.
Interesting comment about 'Old Ironsides' the framing (ribs) were built of live oak, because the way it grows lends itself to making curved pieces of great strength. The town of Live Oak Florida was originally established by the Federal Government as a lumber reserve for shipbuilding for that reason.
If only you had a store in the UK. I am mainly a woodcarver, ex turner, and so I chose stores that catered for people like me. But to see the stock laid out on the racks like that it just mouth watering. Whilst visiting a pal in Calgary one time he took me to a timber store just like the one in your video, and the stock they had was similar to yours. Imagine my frustration at not being able to buy. Thanks though, great and informative video.
As a family of boat builders white oak is king. Especially when it comes to steaming and bending ribs and others requiring a single beam to bend. Good presentation, oh yea, it strengthens with age when damp or wet!
Being in the far North of NH we have both red and white oak. I will tell you there is a difference in the acorns or oak nuts. Now, the red oak nuts are hard and dense great for deer with 4 chambers in the stomach. Now, the white nuts are nice. Boil them for 45 minutes, cool and peel. A savory sweet treat inside oh so good. Greetings from NH. Live, freeze and Die.
Always great information A thought you may want to consider is DC the terrible loud music. I know you may do it because most other TH-cam channels make the same mistake. But think of it this way when you are watchingTV and the loud obnoxious commercial comes on what do you do you change the channel or turn it OFF. I like what I saw I hate what I heard in music.......
I am a big fan of quarter sawn white oak and unless I missed it, you did not mention the most important plus to quarter sawn white oak. That is how stable it is in humidity changes, good article. Thanks for sharing
I used to work for a farmer throughout high school and he had me doing fencing in a swampy area of the cow pasture. The were many split white oak posts that had been there for decades and they showed no sign of rotting despite being in an extremely wet environment. The red oak didn’t do nearly as well.
Red Oak is not good for anything outside in a wet environment. White oak is. The best wood for fence posts is Locust. It is rock hard and lasts for decades. Vikings also used white oak for ship building. Red Oaks often rot from the inside of the heart wood, leaving a living tree hollow inside. White oaks are less likely to rot this way, so usually live longer. A white oak in my yard lived to be 115 yro. It was not rotten inside. It just died. I miss that tree.
Yooo small thing, but keeping the name of the wood you were speaking about for like a whole minute while you were talking about it to make sure we were able to follow along was a nice touch 👌🏼
I'll join Gary below "I'm 78" and think this was a very simple yet accurate informative explanation of the two oaks. Thanks for using the "Kiss" technique, it makes life so much easier, than trying to prove how smart you are. and above all thanks for sharing.
Thanks for the explanation. I've had occasion to cut oak installed 200+ yrs. ago. The smell tells me it's oak without a doubt. It's a very distinctive smell, not unpleasant, not perfume.
Ha Mark I have been wood working for years and I have used both red and white oak. I never knew the nuances between the two. I just bought the cheapest that looked good. Thanks for the info.
Greetings from England. An excellent overview. Please do another one, starting with the log, go through milling then the sawing you describe here through to the finished piece
Hi Mark I am using White Oak and i think its the Rip Sawn variety for my outdoor Threshold. I'm wondering what would be the best clear finish to use for the this and how to best apply it. Thanks in advance for any feedback.
I am constantly looking for videos where I can gain the maximum amount of knowledge and information, in the least amount of time. This video embodies that goal. Thank you so much.
Good information well presented. Might also add that white oak is also very good, (and better than red oak) for bending. Especially good is green white oak. So ribs of canoes can be steam bent very nicely out of white oak.
Cool video, man. Glad I found this channel. I definitely learned a few things. I think I like the quarter sawn look. It's got a lot of character to it.
hey nanny just told me what i was wondering until fall. leaves changed colour n discover that we have red oak n black ash for bow making. i’m wondering if you have any tips on reading red oak tree. knots twists etc. should i use a tree about foot in diameter or saplings. n what’s difference in wood characteristics between 6 in sapling vs 1 ft tree
@1:14: When people talk about red and white oaks, they are talking about the two main _groups_ of oak species, _not_ merely the two species that happen to be called red oak and white oak (scientifically or colloquially). E.g., _Q. Buckleyi_ is a red oak and _Q. Macrocarpa_ is a white oak. Between the two groups, there are differences in leaf shape (pointed vs. rounded), tannins (high vs. low), wood characteristics (e.g., ray prominence), etc.
Yes, ncooty, you are right. Red oak and white oak each contain numerous species that have numerous characteristics in common. One of those characteristics is color. The red oak woods tends to be slightly red although with a lot of variation, whereas the white oak boards tend to be grayish.(although the color, with its variations, is not usually dependable for classification.
So Mark thats a very good video.I just found some black oak trees here in southern Oregon..So do you know anything about its characteristics and worth ?Board ft?Thank You
It is helpful to think of wood grain as a stack of straws or tubes. In red oak the tubes are small enough to break the surface tension of water & move the water through capillary action. White oak, these tubes are segmented. These segments block the migration of water through the tube. White oak was the common wood for garage doors or other outdoor moments 100 years ago plus. These segmented tubes also make white oak a touch harder.
One feature of the two oaks discussed that you didn’t mention is the difference in the aroma emitted by them . White oak has an aroma that smells somewhat like cotton candy when being worked, or like something you’d enjoy eating. Red oak frequently smells sour, not unlike vomit. The odor or aroma of the two woods may also help explain why the white is used for casks instead of the more odiferous red. As a cabinet builder I’ve only built one rather disappointing (from my standpoint) kitchen with red oak while I’ve done several with white...a much more pleasing appearance. The white also tools better, and is much more uniform in color and texture. Enjoyed the video and the ensuing comments and discussion...very informative.
Reds have much more tannins in them. That's why they smell sour, why wildlife likes white oak acorns more and why when working with red oak a lot some people's hands actually react with the tannins and turn black (first hand... knowledge)
Hello, i have an old table made of rosewood. It has been outside too long and needs a good sanding and finishing to bring out the color again. How would you recommend me to finish the top?
All true, excellent! Just wanted to put in a word about the European oak (Quercus Robur) which is the commonest oak available here in England. It is more like your white oak but usually has a much wilder grain and many more knots and features, not so easy to machine or plane.
Does white oak tear as much when cross cutting? This is probably one of the best informational videos I've seen. Straight to the point, and very informative. Nice work!
that's a good question, sorry we didn't hit that in the vid more specifically. But , yes, white oak does behave a little better with cross cutting. Thanks
Quarter sawn white oak is my favorite wood to work with, I've taken to using ammonia fuming to darken it prior to finishing it. I love the resulting dark coloration.
Interesting fact about oak lumber and presumably any lumber for that matter): the more spacing between each ring indicates faster growth and that also makes it slightly weaker than lumber with closer ring spacing. Where i studied for my forestry degree in southern illinois the soil conditions were great for fast growth but this translated to slightly weaker lumber. In the rocky and rugged soils of the Missouri Ozarks the growth is very slow but also makes very sturdy oak lumber.
I would like to express my gratitude for taking the time to teach us such information. for me every word has been listen to and will return againg to restudy Oak genus. Thank you and keep up the great work.
Hello friend. I live in jordan where we don't have that many options of solid wood. I am willing to make a book case from oak. When I did the wood pricing I found a significant price difference between 1 inch and 2 inches thick lumber (price of 1 cubic foot of each) . 2 inches thick oak is 20 to 30 percent more expensive. Is there a technical reason behind this price difference? For example Milling process, sap vs heart... Etc? Thanks in advance for your help
What can you tell me about American Beech wood? I live in northeast Tennessee, and it seems beech trees are plentiful. I've picked up a few fallen limbs, sawed them up on my table saw to get some small pieces for highlighting small projects. I'd like to learn more. I'm new to woodworking.
Martin! Thanks for the video. Perhaps some would find it difficult to keep up with you, as you have described red as well as white oak and quarter sawn wood. Perhaps you didn't give yourself enough scope to mention the bearing of the age of the lumber on the strength, beauty and workability of the wood. You did make the effort to clear some aspects the confusion on the terminology, so thanks again.
This may be somewhere in the comments but red and white refer to two sub genus of quercus. There are several species in each. I am in Oklahoma. Common red oaks here are the northern red oak, black oak, willow oak, shumard oak and blackjack oak, among others. Among our white oaks are bur oak, chinquapin oak and post oak.
I have many black walnut trees over 50 years old on my property and l thought l knew what the bark is supposed to look like. Recently a few branches broke off one of these trees on an extremely windy day. I snapped a small branch in half and a very pleasant aroma was released, definitely not that of a black walnut branch. Does white oak have a particular fragrance?
That's a really good request, we've considered something like that. In a few older videos we have suggested, if polyurethane is your thing, to use a gel poly that you apply by wipe on/off instead of a "classic" liquid version you brush on. We're thinking of a video about how and why a gel poly is easier to use. Would that have any merit to you?
Nice video, I ran a wood finishing company here in southern Indiana (the heart of oak country) We always considered white Oak to be the premium of the two. More stable and takes finishes more evenly. It is what most whiskey barrels are made of. I know this because I went to one of the biggest saw mills in the area for some white Oak and was told Jack Daniels had purchased almost all the standing white Oak in the county. Also, around here anyway. All Quarter sawn Oak is made of white Oak.
You are quite right about using white oak outdoors. I once built an outside bench from red oak recycled from old kitchen cabinets. Felt so good reusing the wood. 18 months later it was falling apart. Red oak just does not work outside. It has a grain structure that causes water to wick up into the end grain and rots it from the inside.
What’s your opinion on glue ups for panels, table tops or whatever between said F-150 and Mustang pieces of wood? Do to the relative differences, would “mixing” in a glue up make for a more “unstable” product? And basically for the same question, what about in the mixed glued up joining of the 3 different styled milled , for let’s say cabinet doors? Would that be ill advised? Before getting deep into wood working, I’ll feel better knowing more about how wood works with each other in it’s different forms. Your video got me wondering and really curious . I’m glad you did this video.
Mixing cutting methods is very common. A well made door for instance, would have the mounting and meeting styles made from quarter sawn lumber, and the panels made from rift or flat sawn.
Nicely put, thank you. A small bit of botanical pedantry, it's always upper case for the first letter of the Genus, then lower case for the first letter of the species- so Quercus rubra rather than Quercus Rubra.
I am about to burl....I mean hurl... great content from WWS, thanks for the free info and sorry about the folks who are so insecure they need to identify your shortcomings with grammar and spelling. I appreciate your efforts...from a local Phoenix woodworker...
I have been to Boston and toured the USS Constitution. Well worth it!! As he said if you are ever near Boston you should check it out. it's very interesting and the guys/ladies giving the tour are actual US Navy sailors.
I already knew every point you covered...and yet, I had to watch...couldn't push "stop!" I must comment because the presentation of the information was incredible! Please accept my heartfelt, "Well done!"
Quick question, why does no one deal in live oak it seems? Or is it lumped into one of the other oak families? Living in central Texas we have it all over. Just curious the reasons. I’ve done a little work with it here and there and it’s extremely hard, but makes beautiful pieces.
Building a table from oak slabs from a friends mill he got from someone East of here.....Quite a ways East actually. Now Have to look closer at the wood to see what we are working with. Where we live our wood choices in the timber are Doug Fir and Lodgepole pine. Thanks for the information!
Mark, great presentation ... I have watched a lot of people trying to connect via these little videos and I've never seen anyone do it better than you did ... of course that might have something to do with the fact that you're just a pretty cool cat too....
Red oak, when first harvested, does indeed have a reddish hue to the wood. This, however, tends dissipate over time as the wood dries. It is also a faster growing tree (in fact, the fastest growing of all oaks), which is why it is more commonly used and of lower price.
Hello, great video. Live oak which is of the white oak family, is abundant where I live in Natchez Ms. The limbs will grow out so far and sag till they touch the ground, then the end of the limbs that touch the ground sometimes reroot and grow into a massive creature looking tree. They grow wild out in the woods here and that is where you see most of the wild-looking ones. The wood is heavy and it grows its limbs just about as big as its trunk when old. They truly do look alive right around dark. I don't know if it is in any pictures but lookup''James Foster house'' or ''The foster mound house'' in Natchez ms. I use to live there and it's built on an Indian mound. IT has 200yr old live oaks growing in front of it and in the back of it. There is one growing on the corner in the back that is supposed to be the largest live oak trunk around here. It picked the end of the house up with its roots. I'm saying all this because a lot of comments were asking about live oaks and how to tell them apart from other oaks. If you look this up you will see how they are shaped having huge trunks but only12 or 16 ft tall then the l.imbs grow out from the top of the trunk and they are massive and long. Mt Repose is around the corner and has many live oaks you can see in pictures.
_Fact Check: __3:14__ USS Constitution's hull is made of both white oak and live oak. While the ship's ability to take a pounding of cannonball fire isn't because of the white oak alone. Our point remains the same, though, that white oak is strong, durable, and a good choice for projects that will be exposed to water or when toughness is important to you. Thanks for your time._ 👍
Woodworkers Source good wood!
Live oak (Q. Virginiana) is so dense it sinks in water, its like cutting rock.
Live Oak comes from the Northern Gulf Coast. President Jefferson decreed that the area where it grows and the actual trees were essential for national security. There's a National Park that runs sporadically from Gulf Breeze FL to Mississippi, it's called the Gulf Shores National Park.
I've read that the armor cladding of the USS Constitution was made of live oak, which is where all the bouncing cannon balls came from. Perhaps the structure had a lot of white oak in it? I've seen pieces of live oak logs, where the grain was very rippled, that strong men were unable to plant a sharp ax into the end grain of it, no matter how hard we tried.
@@UFDionysus Watch the movie "Master and Commander at the Edge of the World" starring Russel Crowe. His nemesis, the Achereon is like the USS Constitution, DOUBLE-HULLED. The "dead space" between the hulls gives the USS Constitution it's enormous hull strength, just like modern reactive armor. Back to red and white oaks. White oak is harder, machines better, is denser, but as of 7/2020, about 20-25% higher than red oak. Red oak is competitively priced to birch, one of my favorite, but almost grainless (boring???) hardwoods. Pecan/hickory are white oak's big brothers. Both harder, denser, much harder to get wide planks in, and more expensive, but many will say the wood's beauty is worthwhile. The "Lexus" of oak is English old-growth White Oak, quarter sawn. I actually prefer the grain and machining of it to American Walnut. Go to French Burl Walnut (like my shotgun stock and forearm) and we've greatly upped the ante. Uhmm, I paid nearly as much for the stock/forearm as for the Remington 3200 over/under shotgun it's on...but gee, it's purty! Trivia: I'm not certain if it's true on the last US aircraft carriers, but up to the USS Ronald Regan
I really appreciate you getting right to the point without a lot of blather. Your info is exactly what I'm looking for and I don't have to scream in frustration while you discuss ... the weather. Thank you for being so concise!
The author does like to from scratch, th-cam.com/users/postUgkxbnOKZBE4evMO5V2vroHeCjq6d_MV6wJO shaping and trimming wood from large blocks into fine finished products. As another reviewer mentioned, most projects require a lot of high-dollar equipment that most of us don’t have the room or budget for. But, knowing how to do these things, even if we won’t be able to practise the full stack project, is still great.
You are the most helpful and concise wood nerd on youtube, thank you lol
Great succinct informative video. It’s noticeable and appreciated how you prepare what you’re going to say so you don’t stumble, ramble or leave out important bits. Wish more you tubers were as professional and conscientious as you. 🙏
Mark,..you are extremely well talented in explaining the subjects you cover. So much so, that I feel folks who want to know, and learn, have an excellent opportunity with what and how you present it. Even your sense of humor and light-heartedness intertwined with the detail and focus of the subject makes the videos much more enjoyable! Great job, sir!
The quality of comment section was why I subscribed...thanks for vid and those who taught me today!
Thanks WS, I had no idea what the difference was between quarter, straight and rift. Direct, to the point, and you provided samples, the way vids should be.
Interesting comment about 'Old Ironsides' the framing (ribs) were built of live oak, because the way it grows lends itself to making curved pieces of great strength.
The town of Live Oak Florida was originally established by the Federal Government as a lumber reserve for shipbuilding for that reason.
Live oak is considered a "white oak" species.
If only you had a store in the UK. I am mainly a woodcarver, ex turner, and so I chose stores that catered for people like me. But to see the stock laid out on the racks like that it just mouth watering. Whilst visiting a pal in Calgary one time he took me to a timber store just like the one in your video, and the stock they had was similar to yours. Imagine my frustration at not being able to buy. Thanks though, great and informative video.
Mark, I love this channel. Just started woodworking and this provides a wealth of information. Thanks!
As a family of boat builders white oak is king. Especially when it comes to steaming and bending ribs and others requiring a single beam to bend. Good presentation, oh yea, it strengthens with age when damp or wet!
I’m 75 and have never heard this topic described simpler or better.
You are too kind, thank you!
Gary Fairbrother Sorry to hear that. About being 75. Lol
Daniel Holt XXL What a crap comment ! Sorry to hear you are ignorant ! Lol
@@danielholtxxl4936 You're shit.
@@danielholtxxl4936 What a dick, you sure could use a god smack, I am sure one is coming.
Good and informative job on the explanation between white and red oak! Thank you.
Both make terrific firewood.
I’ve asked this question before and only got vague smart alec answers; thank you.
Being in the far North of NH we have both red and white oak. I will tell you there is a difference in the acorns or oak nuts. Now, the red oak nuts are hard and dense great for deer with 4 chambers in the stomach. Now, the white nuts are nice. Boil them for 45 minutes, cool and peel. A savory sweet treat inside oh so good. Greetings from NH. Live, freeze and Die.
Excellent short and to the point summary.
Always great information A thought you may want to consider is DC the terrible loud music. I know you may do it because most other TH-cam channels make the same mistake. But think of it this way when you are watchingTV and the loud obnoxious commercial comes on what do you do you change the channel or turn it OFF. I like what I saw I hate what I heard in music.......
Thank you 👍🏼. You’re speaking my language car guy enjoying my saw mill! Great video
Mark loved this video. Great info and your sense of humor is right up my alley. Great job brother
awesome thank you much!
I am a big fan of quarter sawn white oak and unless I missed it, you did not mention the most important plus to quarter sawn white oak. That is how stable it is in humidity changes, good article. Thanks for sharing
I used to work for a farmer throughout high school and he had me doing fencing in a swampy area of the cow pasture. The were many split white oak posts that had been there for decades and they showed no sign of rotting despite being in an extremely wet environment. The red oak didn’t do nearly as well.
Red Oak is not good for anything outside in a wet environment. White oak is. The best wood for fence posts is Locust. It is rock hard and lasts for decades. Vikings also used white oak for ship building. Red Oaks often rot from the inside of the heart wood, leaving a living tree hollow inside. White oaks are less likely to rot this way, so usually live longer. A white oak in my yard lived to be 115 yro. It was not rotten inside. It just died. I miss that tree.
Yooo small thing, but keeping the name of the wood you were speaking about for like a whole minute while you were talking about it to make sure we were able to follow along was a nice touch 👌🏼
Very good explanations and pictures.
This was very interesting. Thank you for educating me. 👍🏻🙏
Sorry it took me so long to see this.............nicely done. I thought I knew something about oak...Ohio. Tons of it. I learned alot! Thanks!
Thank you for such well presented information. Very enjoyable.
That is very helpful and informative. I'm always hesitant on going to the lumber yard but this gives me much needed tools.
I'll join Gary below "I'm 78" and think this was a very simple yet accurate informative explanation of the two oaks. Thanks for using the "Kiss" technique, it makes life so much easier, than trying to prove how smart you are. and above all thanks for sharing.
White oak has rounded leaf tips. Red oak has sharp pointed leaf tips.
Yep!!!
Not always, look at water oak for example which is a red species.
Awesome explanations! Thank you!
The information is so great !! Love the way you explain everything !!
I enjoy learning from everyone as well. Have you discovered some of the other masters in woodworking?
Thanks for the explanation. I've had occasion to cut oak installed 200+ yrs. ago. The smell tells me it's oak without a doubt. It's a very distinctive smell, not unpleasant, not perfume.
Ha Mark I have been wood working for years and I have used both red and white oak. I never knew the nuances between the two. I just bought the cheapest that looked good. Thanks for the info.
Greetings from England. An excellent overview. Please do another one, starting with the log, go through milling then the sawing you describe here through to the finished piece
Great site.it would be nice to see more of the tree .we have so many here in florida.not sure how to identify them
Nice balance between technical and practical information. Well done my dude.
Hi Mark I am using White Oak and i think its the Rip Sawn variety for my outdoor Threshold. I'm wondering what would be the best clear finish to use for the this and how to best apply it. Thanks in advance for any feedback.
I am constantly looking for videos where I can gain the maximum amount of knowledge and information, in the least amount of time. This video embodies that goal. Thank you so much.
The City Official happy to deliver one puzzle piece in your quest 🤘🤘
You should have 100K subs. Very good video, and thanks for not making it 30 min long! Keep it up brother!
Haha, you're awesome thanks for recognizing our effort to keep 'em short and to the point.
Good information well presented. Might also add that white oak is also very good, (and better than red oak) for bending. Especially good is green white oak. So ribs of canoes can be steam bent very nicely out of white oak.
Wow very informative and fun thank you for an excellent video!
Cool video, man. Glad I found this channel. I definitely learned a few things. I think I like the quarter sawn look. It's got a lot of character to it.
Excellent explanation about red & white oak!
What’s a good medium brown stain for red oak flooring ... don’t want it too yellow or red. Thanks so much!!!!
This video is loaded with amazing information. Thank you for sharing
hey nanny just told me what i was wondering until fall. leaves changed colour n discover that we have red oak n black ash for bow making. i’m wondering if you have any tips on reading red oak tree. knots twists etc. should i use a tree about foot in diameter or saplings. n what’s difference in wood characteristics between 6 in sapling vs 1 ft tree
You sir are my new favorite professor on this platform. Great explanation, today I'm a little bit wiser from your words and for that I thank you.
@1:14: When people talk about red and white oaks, they are talking about the two main _groups_ of oak species, _not_ merely the two species that happen to be called red oak and white oak (scientifically or colloquially). E.g., _Q. Buckleyi_ is a red oak and _Q. Macrocarpa_ is a white oak. Between the two groups, there are differences in leaf shape (pointed vs. rounded), tannins (high vs. low), wood characteristics (e.g., ray prominence), etc.
Yes, ncooty, you are right. Red oak and white oak each contain numerous species that have numerous characteristics in common. One of those characteristics is color. The red oak woods tends to be slightly red although with a lot of variation, whereas the white oak boards tend to be grayish.(although the color, with its variations, is not usually dependable for classification.
So Mark thats a very good video.I just found some black oak trees here in southern Oregon..So do you know anything about its characteristics and worth ?Board ft?Thank You
Great job well taught by you sir
It is helpful to think of wood grain as a stack of straws or tubes. In red oak the tubes are small enough to break the surface tension of water & move the water through capillary action. White oak, these tubes are segmented. These segments block the migration of water through the tube. White oak was the common wood for garage doors or other outdoor moments 100 years ago plus. These segmented tubes also make white oak a touch harder.
Great job Mark, I couldn't have said it better!
One feature of the two oaks discussed that you didn’t mention is the difference in the aroma emitted by them . White oak has an aroma that smells somewhat like cotton candy when being worked, or like something you’d enjoy eating. Red oak frequently smells sour, not unlike vomit. The odor or aroma of the two woods may also help explain why the white is used for casks instead of the more odiferous red.
As a cabinet builder I’ve only built one rather disappointing (from my standpoint) kitchen with red oak while I’ve done several with white...a much more pleasing appearance. The white also tools better, and is much more uniform in color and texture.
Enjoyed the video and the ensuing comments and discussion...very informative.
Reds have much more tannins in them. That's why they smell sour, why wildlife likes white oak acorns more and why when working with red oak a lot some people's hands actually react with the tannins and turn black (first hand... knowledge)
Hello, i have an old table made of rosewood. It has been outside too long and needs a good sanding and finishing to bring out the color again.
How would you recommend me to finish the top?
Great video. Straight to the point. Just how I like em. Subscribed!
All true, excellent! Just wanted to put in a word about the European oak (Quercus Robur) which is the commonest oak available here in England. It is more like your white oak but usually has a much wilder grain and many more knots and features, not so easy to machine or plane.
Does white oak tear as much when cross cutting?
This is probably one of the best informational videos I've seen. Straight to the point, and very informative. Nice work!
that's a good question, sorry we didn't hit that in the vid more specifically. But , yes, white oak does behave a little better with cross cutting. Thanks
Thanks
Love your channel and the way you explain things. Fantastic stuff. Learning alot.
What a SUPER description! 🤠
Quarter sawn white oak is my favorite wood to work with, I've taken to using ammonia fuming to darken it prior to finishing it. I love the resulting dark coloration.
Interesting never heard about this how does it work
Interesting fact about oak lumber and presumably any lumber for that matter): the more spacing between each ring indicates faster growth and that also makes it slightly weaker than lumber with closer ring spacing. Where i studied for my forestry degree in southern illinois the soil conditions were great for fast growth but this translated to slightly weaker lumber. In the rocky and rugged soils of the Missouri Ozarks the growth is very slow but also makes very sturdy oak lumber.
Incredibly useful information! Thanks for putting this out.
I would like to express my gratitude for taking the time to teach us such information. for me every word has been listen to and will return againg to restudy Oak genus. Thank you and keep up the great work.
Very interesting and thanks , my whole kitchen is built out of Quarter Sawn oak , I love the flake or tiger stripe in the wood !
Hello friend. I live in jordan where we don't have that many options of solid wood. I am willing to make a book case from oak. When I did the wood pricing I found a significant price difference between 1 inch and 2 inches thick lumber (price of 1 cubic foot of each) . 2 inches thick oak is 20 to 30 percent more expensive. Is there a technical reason behind this price difference? For example Milling process, sap vs heart... Etc?
Thanks in advance for your help
I just finished a white oak Adirondack chair and looking for finish recommendations, either clear or semi-transparent preferably
Thank you man. I'm building a farm table top out of 100 year red oak right now and never knew these things about red or white. I like em both.
Love this. Well done. Very informative.
Good information. What finish product should be used for white oak that is going to be outdoors? Thanks much.
Another great educational video, thank you Mark!
Thank you!
What can you tell me about American Beech wood? I live in northeast Tennessee, and it seems beech trees are plentiful. I've picked up a few fallen limbs, sawed them up on my table saw to get some small pieces for highlighting small projects. I'd like to learn more. I'm new to woodworking.
Martin!
Thanks for the video.
Perhaps some would find it difficult to keep up with you, as you have described red as well as white oak and quarter sawn wood.
Perhaps you didn't give yourself enough scope to mention the bearing of the age of the lumber on the strength, beauty and workability of the wood.
You did make the effort to clear some aspects the confusion on the terminology, so thanks again.
This may be somewhere in the comments but red and white refer to two sub genus of quercus. There are several species in each. I am in Oklahoma. Common red oaks here are the northern red oak, black oak, willow oak, shumard oak and blackjack oak, among others. Among our white oaks are bur oak, chinquapin oak and post oak.
Love this channel and long time customer of woodworkers source in Phoenix. Keep up the good work.
I really like this guy
I have many black walnut trees over 50 years old on my property and l thought l knew what the bark is supposed to look like. Recently a few branches broke off one of these trees on an extremely windy day. I snapped a small branch in half and a very pleasant aroma was released, definitely not that of a black walnut branch. Does white oak have a particular fragrance?
Great presentation. Can you (if you haven't already) do a video showing the proper use of / application of polyurethane. Thank you.
That's a really good request, we've considered something like that. In a few older videos we have suggested, if polyurethane is your thing, to use a gel poly that you apply by wipe on/off instead of a "classic" liquid version you brush on. We're thinking of a video about how and why a gel poly is easier to use. Would that have any merit to you?
Outstanding 6 minute presentation, all very useful information! Louis S.
Very well done. I am now subscribed.
Nice video, I ran a wood finishing company here in southern Indiana (the heart of oak country)
We always considered white Oak to be the premium of the two. More stable and takes finishes more evenly. It is what most whiskey barrels are made of. I know this because I went to one of the biggest saw mills in the area for some white Oak and was told Jack Daniels had purchased almost all the standing white Oak in the county. Also, around here anyway. All Quarter sawn Oak is made of white Oak.
White oak is used for the barrels because of the tighter grain, red oak barrels would leak
You are quite right about using white oak outdoors. I once built an outside bench from red oak recycled from old kitchen cabinets. Felt so good reusing the wood. 18 months later it was falling apart. Red oak just does not work outside. It has a grain structure that causes water to wick up into the end grain and rots it from the inside.
What’s your opinion on glue ups for panels, table tops or whatever between said F-150 and Mustang pieces of wood? Do to the relative differences, would “mixing” in a glue up make for a more “unstable” product? And basically for the same question, what about in the mixed glued up joining of the 3 different styled milled , for let’s say cabinet doors? Would that be ill advised? Before getting deep into wood working, I’ll feel better knowing more about how wood works with each other in it’s different forms. Your video got me wondering and really curious . I’m glad you did this video.
Mixing cutting methods is very common.
A well made door for instance, would have the mounting and meeting styles made from quarter sawn lumber, and the panels made from rift or flat sawn.
Glue a F-150 and Mustang together, you get a Fusion I think
Nicely put, thank you. A small bit of botanical pedantry, it's always upper case for the first letter of the Genus, then lower case for the first letter of the species- so Quercus rubra rather than Quercus Rubra.
Of course.
That’s an interesting comment. I have wondered that very thing. Thanks for stating that.
I am about to burl....I mean hurl... great content from WWS, thanks for the free info and sorry about the folks who are so insecure they need to identify your shortcomings with grammar and spelling. I appreciate your efforts...from a local Phoenix woodworker...
I have been to Boston and toured the USS Constitution. Well worth it!! As he said if you are ever near Boston you should check it out. it's very interesting and the guys/ladies giving the tour are actual US Navy sailors.
I already knew every point you covered...and yet, I had to watch...couldn't push "stop!" I must comment because the presentation of the information was incredible! Please accept my heartfelt, "Well done!"
Quick question, why does no one deal in live oak it seems? Or is it lumped into one of the other oak families? Living in central Texas we have it all over. Just curious the reasons. I’ve done a little work with it here and there and it’s extremely hard, but makes beautiful pieces.
Thank you - I learned a lot about the wood grains from the red/white oaks.
Probably one of the most useful random TH-cam suggestions I've gotten to date. You've got a new subscriber!
Ohhh God my head hurts ...lol your a freaking geny when it comes to Oaks woods in general...love it...thankx
Building a table from oak slabs from a friends mill he got from someone East of here.....Quite a ways East actually. Now Have to look closer at the wood to see what we are working with. Where we live our wood choices in the timber are Doug Fir and Lodgepole pine. Thanks for the information!
Thank you for clearing that up!
I like white oak better than red oak.
Mark, great presentation ... I have watched a lot of people trying to connect via these little videos and I've never seen anyone do it better than you did ... of course that might have something to do with the fact that you're just a pretty cool cat too....
Red oak, when first harvested, does indeed have a reddish hue to the wood. This, however, tends dissipate over time as the wood dries. It is also a faster growing tree (in fact, the fastest growing of all oaks), which is why it is more commonly used and of lower price.
Excellent and informative!
Great video, good balance, good length. Too many videos of this type stray outside of the sub-7 minute sweet spot for viewer attentiveness. Excellent.
Great videos to watch, very helpful to new woodworkers. Fyi i have been aboard ol iron sides. Shes beautiful, and worth the trip to Boston.
Hello, great video. Live oak which is of the white oak family, is abundant where I live in Natchez Ms. The limbs will grow out so far and sag till they touch the ground, then the end of the limbs that touch the ground sometimes reroot and grow into a massive creature looking tree. They grow wild out in the woods here and that is where you see most of the wild-looking ones. The wood is heavy and it grows its limbs just about as big as its trunk when old. They truly do look alive right around dark. I don't know if it is in any pictures but lookup''James Foster house'' or ''The foster mound house'' in Natchez ms. I use to live there and it's built on an Indian mound. IT has 200yr old live oaks growing in front of it and in the back of it. There is one growing on the corner in the back that is supposed to be the largest live oak trunk around here. It picked the end of the house up with its roots. I'm saying all this because a lot of comments were asking about live oaks and how to tell them apart from other oaks. If you look this up you will see how they are shaped having huge trunks but only12 or 16 ft tall then the l.imbs grow out from the top of the trunk and they are massive and long. Mt Repose is around the corner and has many live oaks you can see in pictures.
Absolutely the best explanation of board types and how they’re sawn. Great analogies!