_Fact Check: __3:14__ USS Constitution's hull is made of both white oak and live oak. While the ship's ability to take a pounding of cannonball fire isn't because of the white oak alone. Our point remains the same, though, that white oak is strong, durable, and a good choice for projects that will be exposed to water or when toughness is important to you. Thanks for your time._ 👍
Live Oak comes from the Northern Gulf Coast. President Jefferson decreed that the area where it grows and the actual trees were essential for national security. There's a National Park that runs sporadically from Gulf Breeze FL to Mississippi, it's called the Gulf Shores National Park.
I've read that the armor cladding of the USS Constitution was made of live oak, which is where all the bouncing cannon balls came from. Perhaps the structure had a lot of white oak in it? I've seen pieces of live oak logs, where the grain was very rippled, that strong men were unable to plant a sharp ax into the end grain of it, no matter how hard we tried.
@@UFDionysus Watch the movie "Master and Commander at the Edge of the World" starring Russel Crowe. His nemesis, the Achereon is like the USS Constitution, DOUBLE-HULLED. The "dead space" between the hulls gives the USS Constitution it's enormous hull strength, just like modern reactive armor. Back to red and white oaks. White oak is harder, machines better, is denser, but as of 7/2020, about 20-25% higher than red oak. Red oak is competitively priced to birch, one of my favorite, but almost grainless (boring???) hardwoods. Pecan/hickory are white oak's big brothers. Both harder, denser, much harder to get wide planks in, and more expensive, but many will say the wood's beauty is worthwhile. The "Lexus" of oak is English old-growth White Oak, quarter sawn. I actually prefer the grain and machining of it to American Walnut. Go to French Burl Walnut (like my shotgun stock and forearm) and we've greatly upped the ante. Uhmm, I paid nearly as much for the stock/forearm as for the Remington 3200 over/under shotgun it's on...but gee, it's purty! Trivia: I'm not certain if it's true on the last US aircraft carriers, but up to the USS Ronald Regan
The author does like to from scratch, th-cam.com/users/postUgkxbnOKZBE4evMO5V2vroHeCjq6d_MV6wJO shaping and trimming wood from large blocks into fine finished products. As another reviewer mentioned, most projects require a lot of high-dollar equipment that most of us don’t have the room or budget for. But, knowing how to do these things, even if we won’t be able to practise the full stack project, is still great.
Being in the far North of NH we have both red and white oak. I will tell you there is a difference in the acorns or oak nuts. Now, the red oak nuts are hard and dense great for deer with 4 chambers in the stomach. Now, the white nuts are nice. Boil them for 45 minutes, cool and peel. A savory sweet treat inside oh so good. Greetings from NH. Live, freeze and Die.
Mark,..you are extremely well talented in explaining the subjects you cover. So much so, that I feel folks who want to know, and learn, have an excellent opportunity with what and how you present it. Even your sense of humor and light-heartedness intertwined with the detail and focus of the subject makes the videos much more enjoyable! Great job, sir!
Interesting comment about 'Old Ironsides' the framing (ribs) were built of live oak, because the way it grows lends itself to making curved pieces of great strength. The town of Live Oak Florida was originally established by the Federal Government as a lumber reserve for shipbuilding for that reason.
As a family of boat builders white oak is king. Especially when it comes to steaming and bending ribs and others requiring a single beam to bend. Good presentation, oh yea, it strengthens with age when damp or wet!
Red oak, when first harvested, does indeed have a reddish hue to the wood. This, however, tends dissipate over time as the wood dries. It is also a faster growing tree (in fact, the fastest growing of all oaks), which is why it is more commonly used and of lower price.
As a homeowner in central Illinois, I really liked the white oak habit of dropping its fall leaves in a week or two. Yard cleanup was not a problem. Currently, as a homeowner in central Wisconsin our red oak drops previous season leaves every month of the year. Yard looks crappy all year.
Great succinct informative video. It’s noticeable and appreciated how you prepare what you’re going to say so you don’t stumble, ramble or leave out important bits. Wish more you tubers were as professional and conscientious as you. 🙏
A great explanation for things that (follow me here:) most non-professional, professional youtuber "wood workers" never even know to tell you... because they don't know.
This video, starting at 5:00, gives a much better description of why the USS Constitution was as strong as she was. It isn't just because of the White Oak. I do recommend watching the entire video if you are a History buff, but I marked it at the wood working relevant point. Also if you haven't seen "Master and Commander: Far Side of the World" what is wrong with you? th-cam.com/video/_Iwea41ua0Y/w-d-xo.html
Interesting fact about oak lumber and presumably any lumber for that matter): the more spacing between each ring indicates faster growth and that also makes it slightly weaker than lumber with closer ring spacing. Where i studied for my forestry degree in southern illinois the soil conditions were great for fast growth but this translated to slightly weaker lumber. In the rocky and rugged soils of the Missouri Ozarks the growth is very slow but also makes very sturdy oak lumber.
Cool video, man. Glad I found this channel. I definitely learned a few things. I think I like the quarter sawn look. It's got a lot of character to it.
I used to work for a farmer throughout high school and he had me doing fencing in a swampy area of the cow pasture. The were many split white oak posts that had been there for decades and they showed no sign of rotting despite being in an extremely wet environment. The red oak didn’t do nearly as well.
Red Oak is not good for anything outside in a wet environment. White oak is. The best wood for fence posts is Locust. It is rock hard and lasts for decades. Vikings also used white oak for ship building. Red Oaks often rot from the inside of the heart wood, leaving a living tree hollow inside. White oaks are less likely to rot this way, so usually live longer. A white oak in my yard lived to be 115 yro. It was not rotten inside. It just died. I miss that tree.
Thanks WS, I had no idea what the difference was between quarter, straight and rift. Direct, to the point, and you provided samples, the way vids should be.
I really appreciate you getting right to the point without a lot of blather. Your info is exactly what I'm looking for and I don't have to scream in frustration while you discuss ... the weather. Thank you for being so concise!
Nicely done!!! I have been trying to tell many TH-camr's to use full spectrum lighting so the camera can pick up on the subtle difference of wood types et...
Mark, great presentation ... I have watched a lot of people trying to connect via these little videos and I've never seen anyone do it better than you did ... of course that might have something to do with the fact that you're just a pretty cool cat too....
'so this ship built of white oak deflected canon fire. . . . so why would you choose white oak?'. . . . do we really need any more qualities besides deflects canon fire?
USS Constitution's hull had two layers of white oak planking which sandwiched a center layer (running perpendicular) of southern live oak. It was the live oak layer (a type of red oak) which repelled the cannon fire. Other ships of the time had only hulls double planked with two layers of white oak and were readily damaged by cannon fire.
This was a great video. I’ve only been woodworking about 2 years, and I knew a few of the differences between the two but not in this much detail. And I didn’t know about the different sawing techniques. I love these lumber learning videos.
It is helpful to think of wood grain as a stack of straws or tubes. In red oak the tubes are small enough to break the surface tension of water & move the water through capillary action. White oak, these tubes are segmented. These segments block the migration of water through the tube. White oak was the common wood for garage doors or other outdoor moments 100 years ago plus. These segmented tubes also make white oak a touch harder.
Yes, Victory is older. "active", Continuously commissioned" Britain did normally 'lay up' their fleets when not in use. Older vessels were routinely used as warehouse space, prisons, even bulk carriers. Victory was old, by wooden ship standards, when Nelson was aboard at Trafalgar. And likely 'laid up in Ordinary" at the end of that conflict or a future conflict. Hence, not continuously commissioned. All of it is just semantics, a great vessel is a great vessel.
@@dougrobinson8058 Yes, absolutely. Last time she was sailed was in the mid 1990's but,, with the exception of dry dock for hull repairs, she has remained afloat. Is afloat today, and untied from her dock once a year to turn her around. Anyone can and everyone should tour her. I have ,, and at 6'4" I found it very enlightening, and head bonking, to explore her. 4 and 5 feet 'tween decks is normal. The diagonal riders were gone when I first saw her,, but the scars and paint marks clearly showed where they were. I have not seen her since they were reinstalled in the 1990's. For any woodworker,, she is a marvel.
Continuously commissioned is the distinction for the USS Constitution. The HMS is Victory is not floating it's been in dry dock for nearly 100 years now.
Great video and such a cool story about Old Ironsides, I had no clue! Oak has long been my favorite tree, I even named my TH-cam channel after it, but after that story I might be working with it a bit more now!
Hello, great video. Live oak which is of the white oak family, is abundant where I live in Natchez Ms. The limbs will grow out so far and sag till they touch the ground, then the end of the limbs that touch the ground sometimes reroot and grow into a massive creature looking tree. They grow wild out in the woods here and that is where you see most of the wild-looking ones. The wood is heavy and it grows its limbs just about as big as its trunk when old. They truly do look alive right around dark. I don't know if it is in any pictures but lookup''James Foster house'' or ''The foster mound house'' in Natchez ms. I use to live there and it's built on an Indian mound. IT has 200yr old live oaks growing in front of it and in the back of it. There is one growing on the corner in the back that is supposed to be the largest live oak trunk around here. It picked the end of the house up with its roots. I'm saying all this because a lot of comments were asking about live oaks and how to tell them apart from other oaks. If you look this up you will see how they are shaped having huge trunks but only12 or 16 ft tall then the l.imbs grow out from the top of the trunk and they are massive and long. Mt Repose is around the corner and has many live oaks you can see in pictures.
I was hoping you would give us some insight on "live" oak. I've never worked with it, but was wondering why I always see other woodworkers either get big grins or cringes of death whenever live oak is mentioned.
That's because live oak is not easy to work with and rarely grows straight, which makes trying to make straight boards and other components very tricky. Also in my experience you should either work it green or have very sharp tools or you will not cut even a somewhat dry piece of lumber, at least not without some frustration and it can even chip the blade of a tool if your not careful since its so hard(its tougher than white oak) I only know because I did that to a tool myself. However, anything made from it as far as i know, is bound to last due to its hardness and resistance to rot, its also a very beautiful wood in most cases.
This may be somewhere in the comments but red and white refer to two sub genus of quercus. There are several species in each. I am in Oklahoma. Common red oaks here are the northern red oak, black oak, willow oak, shumard oak and blackjack oak, among others. Among our white oaks are bur oak, chinquapin oak and post oak.
i recently viewed some of the oldest and largest Pin Oak trees in West Virginia owned by Kanawha City they are on Vennable Ave. Diameter of at least 4' . Several oaks line this avenue near I-77 and I-64. Several other large pin oaks are near Charleston Memorial Hospital across the Kanawha River from the Capitol and they are very large also. One resident paid $2,000 to have some limbs removed as he told me.
I am not aware of whether this concern was commented upon but you failed to mention that quarter-sawn boards do not expand as much as plain-sawn boards. As a result, tops and sides made with QS boards are more stable during seasonal changes. This is important to cabinet makers. Quarter-sawn boards yield less useable lumber and thus are more expensive.
I have a house that was built in 1922, and all the structure is built out of red oak, (1400 sq. Ft.). The foundation and basement is 18 thick inch cut stone. Lath and plaster, and center-cut fir floors, with a red oak sub floor, and 12 foot ceilings. It's really nice until you go to hang a picture, then the 100 year old oak says "You are NOT putting a nail in me!" All the oak is flat cut on a circular sawmill. it would be scary to think how much that would cost today.
I install a lot of oak floors and many people dont like that red oak has a reddish tint to it before its stained and after. It will age with a red tint to it where white oak doesnt. White oak is a great choiice for flooring and especially in kitchens
@1:14: When people talk about red and white oaks, they are talking about the two main _groups_ of oak species, _not_ merely the two species that happen to be called red oak and white oak (scientifically or colloquially). E.g., _Q. Buckleyi_ is a red oak and _Q. Macrocarpa_ is a white oak. Between the two groups, there are differences in leaf shape (pointed vs. rounded), tannins (high vs. low), wood characteristics (e.g., ray prominence), etc.
Yes, ncooty, you are right. Red oak and white oak each contain numerous species that have numerous characteristics in common. One of those characteristics is color. The red oak woods tends to be slightly red although with a lot of variation, whereas the white oak boards tend to be grayish.(although the color, with its variations, is not usually dependable for classification.
The USS Constitution was built out of southern live oak, Quercus Virginiana. It is even harder than normal white oak, and the grain is interlocked and curly. I have wonderful live oaks in my yard. When you hit a piece with an ax, there is a spark . Whoa. And it is immortal. A dead live oak will stand in your yard forever.
The hull consisted of three layers with the outer and inner horizontal layers being made of white oak and the center vertical layer being made of live oak.
Does live oak even grow in Va today? I know it's common down south I had several in my yard in Florida. In Va at my home it's all white and black oaks literally well over 100 densely packed. My understanding is live oak is the best of all oaks for ship building. It's also a protected tree in many localities today, I couldn't remove one from my yard that was getting into my sewer line. I was told no unless it was damaging the foundation.
While there is specific trees for red oak and white oak, when you are talking about lumber red oak and white oak refer to the different family of oaks. Oak is split up into 2 different family's. When you buy red oak lumber it can be any member on the red oak family, red, black, scarlet, ect. When you buy white oak it can be white, post, live, chestnut, ect. The biggest difference between the 2 is white oak is a little more brown in color and the diffuse porious wood in white oak is filled with a salt like substance that make it's slightly less resistance to rot.
Great video. One point of correction, the USS Constitution's hull was built of Live Oak. The Navy actually has a grove of Live Oak trees they use when the ship needs repair.
@@WoodworkersSourcecom The hull was a composite of three layers with the outer and inner horizontal layers being made of white oak and the center vertical layer being made of live oak. It was the live oak that gave the hull its iron like strength. Live oak has a density of 63lbs/ft3 vs white oak 47lbs/ft3.
The outer planks as well as many structural members in the ship (like knees) are indeed white oak. The hull planks range from 4 - 5" thick at the top of the sides to nearly 9" where it meets the keel. The innermost hull planking (called ceilings) were a variety of woods depending where they were. These were mostly pine or fir. The designer of the ship, Joshua Humphreys, insisted that the frames be made of live oak, even though it cost them 5 times more that the white oak. This was for strength and resiliency.The live oak would last much longer and since these were frames, it was a major effort to gain access to them for replacement. These frames run vertically between the top rail of the deck down to the keel. The space between frames was approximately 2". So looking at the ship without the white oak planking it would still look like it was almost solid wood. So it was a combination of the white oak exterior and the nearly solid wall of live oak behind it that repelled cannonballs.
Yooo small thing, but keeping the name of the wood you were speaking about for like a whole minute while you were talking about it to make sure we were able to follow along was a nice touch 👌🏼
Quarter sawn white oak is my favorite wood to work with, I've taken to using ammonia fuming to darken it prior to finishing it. I love the resulting dark coloration.
One feature of the two oaks discussed that you didn’t mention is the difference in the aroma emitted by them . White oak has an aroma that smells somewhat like cotton candy when being worked, or like something you’d enjoy eating. Red oak frequently smells sour, not unlike vomit. The odor or aroma of the two woods may also help explain why the white is used for casks instead of the more odiferous red. As a cabinet builder I’ve only built one rather disappointing (from my standpoint) kitchen with red oak while I’ve done several with white...a much more pleasing appearance. The white also tools better, and is much more uniform in color and texture. Enjoyed the video and the ensuing comments and discussion...very informative.
Reds have much more tannins in them. That's why they smell sour, why wildlife likes white oak acorns more and why when working with red oak a lot some people's hands actually react with the tannins and turn black (first hand... knowledge)
Love burning red and white oak in the woodstove.After woodlots are select cut,i trim and cut the tops.White oak actually has a more pleasant smell than red,Red oak is also easier and cleaner to split with a pink hue,white oak is much more stringy,with a caramel hue,by far,my favorite wood to cut.FYI
I am a big fan of quarter sawn white oak and unless I missed it, you did not mention the most important plus to quarter sawn white oak. That is how stable it is in humidity changes, good article. Thanks for sharing
I have many black walnut trees over 50 years old on my property and l thought l knew what the bark is supposed to look like. Recently a few branches broke off one of these trees on an extremely windy day. I snapped a small branch in half and a very pleasant aroma was released, definitely not that of a black walnut branch. Does white oak have a particular fragrance?
dont forget live oak :) Old Ironsides is trippled planked, her center layer of planking is Southern Live Oak. cannaon balls blow through white oak alone. Great video, thanks
Red oak tears up my throat when I cut it. When I cut on the table saw or when I cut with a chain saw. I hate cutting oak. I once was stupid n my 20s I paid a sawmill to saw up some water oak and sweet gum. They asked me if I was making hog toughs outta the sweet gum. That water oak wouldn't even air dry covered up, it rotted. I guess you need a kiln to dry it to make it any good. Turns out live oak makes good furniture wood. White oak between Atlanta and louisiana look so different. I had to cut some trees on my property and I had to cut a 10 inch white oak. I hated cutting that down I like white oaks and they are so good for deer populations. Then I killed a medium 20 inch white oak by dirt work. It's been dead over a year, the bark is still on it with no mushrooms or fungus. I'm gonna have to saw it down and saw it up. But my biggest project is a tupelo gum about 30 inches in dbh and it's been dead about 4 years still solid too, they are more decay resistant than white oak! But I'm planting about 20k osage orange tight around the 24 acres. And some swamp locust and honey locust and 100 black walnut are sitting in a box to plant tomorrow. The black walnut I'm gonna plant probably about 9 to 12 feet apart lining my road. Then in 10 or 15 years I might thin them and be able to have a little black walnut lumber and some walnuts too.
Nice video. When I used to live up in the backwoods of far Northwest Wisconsin (near Spooner), I'd cut a lot of Red & White Oak to burn in my Woodburning cook stove. They made the absolutely BEST COALS that lasted a long time! The White Oak was more "stringy" & could be a "pain" to split vs. Red Oak!! Both were as hard as rock, maybe because they were dead dry trees (never had to cut live trees on my 120 acres!). I would also use these Oak stumps to shoot into with my big bore muzzle loading rifles to test for penetration! Chain sawing into White Oak may have been harder than Red Oak (???). But these two woods (among various others) made glorious red orange coals, a sight to behold!!! "Ach du lieber, mein schatz", und"Gesundheit"!
The description of where the names red oak and white oak come from are off a little... There's a less politically correct origin. Red oak AND white oak leaves turn red in fall... The designation is from the leaves. Red oak leaves are pointed, like the arrows of Indians, and white oak leaves are rounded like white settlers musket balls. That's how it was taught in all 3 of the grade schools I went to 40 years ago anyway
Besides the red leaves in the fall, red oak does have a pinkish cast which shows up in the lighter stain colors and especially when finished natural using a solvent based finish (oil modified poly, conversion varnishes, etc...). White oak also has a more acidic property (higher tannic acid content) than red oak, which can make the wood look "green", especially when a water-based coating is used on it. Care must be taken to avoid this. You will also definitely get more pronounced "figure/fleck" (medullary rays) with white oak versus red oak in the quarter-sawn cut.
hey nanny just told me what i was wondering until fall. leaves changed colour n discover that we have red oak n black ash for bow making. i’m wondering if you have any tips on reading red oak tree. knots twists etc. should i use a tree about foot in diameter or saplings. n what’s difference in wood characteristics between 6 in sapling vs 1 ft tree
_Fact Check: __3:14__ USS Constitution's hull is made of both white oak and live oak. While the ship's ability to take a pounding of cannonball fire isn't because of the white oak alone. Our point remains the same, though, that white oak is strong, durable, and a good choice for projects that will be exposed to water or when toughness is important to you. Thanks for your time._ 👍
Woodworkers Source good wood!
Live oak (Q. Virginiana) is so dense it sinks in water, its like cutting rock.
Live Oak comes from the Northern Gulf Coast. President Jefferson decreed that the area where it grows and the actual trees were essential for national security. There's a National Park that runs sporadically from Gulf Breeze FL to Mississippi, it's called the Gulf Shores National Park.
I've read that the armor cladding of the USS Constitution was made of live oak, which is where all the bouncing cannon balls came from. Perhaps the structure had a lot of white oak in it? I've seen pieces of live oak logs, where the grain was very rippled, that strong men were unable to plant a sharp ax into the end grain of it, no matter how hard we tried.
@@UFDionysus Watch the movie "Master and Commander at the Edge of the World" starring Russel Crowe. His nemesis, the Achereon is like the USS Constitution, DOUBLE-HULLED. The "dead space" between the hulls gives the USS Constitution it's enormous hull strength, just like modern reactive armor. Back to red and white oaks. White oak is harder, machines better, is denser, but as of 7/2020, about 20-25% higher than red oak. Red oak is competitively priced to birch, one of my favorite, but almost grainless (boring???) hardwoods. Pecan/hickory are white oak's big brothers. Both harder, denser, much harder to get wide planks in, and more expensive, but many will say the wood's beauty is worthwhile. The "Lexus" of oak is English old-growth White Oak, quarter sawn. I actually prefer the grain and machining of it to American Walnut. Go to French Burl Walnut (like my shotgun stock and forearm) and we've greatly upped the ante. Uhmm, I paid nearly as much for the stock/forearm as for the Remington 3200 over/under shotgun it's on...but gee, it's purty! Trivia: I'm not certain if it's true on the last US aircraft carriers, but up to the USS Ronald Regan
Great presentation. Great explanation. Did not waste the viewers time with insipid music, long intros, nor unnecessary filler.
The author does like to from scratch, th-cam.com/users/postUgkxbnOKZBE4evMO5V2vroHeCjq6d_MV6wJO shaping and trimming wood from large blocks into fine finished products. As another reviewer mentioned, most projects require a lot of high-dollar equipment that most of us don’t have the room or budget for. But, knowing how to do these things, even if we won’t be able to practise the full stack project, is still great.
You are the most helpful and concise wood nerd on youtube, thank you lol
Being in the far North of NH we have both red and white oak. I will tell you there is a difference in the acorns or oak nuts. Now, the red oak nuts are hard and dense great for deer with 4 chambers in the stomach. Now, the white nuts are nice. Boil them for 45 minutes, cool and peel. A savory sweet treat inside oh so good. Greetings from NH. Live, freeze and Die.
Both make terrific firewood.
White oak has rounded leaf tips. Red oak has sharp pointed leaf tips.
Yep!!!
Not always, look at water oak for example which is a red species.
Mark,..you are extremely well talented in explaining the subjects you cover. So much so, that I feel folks who want to know, and learn, have an excellent opportunity with what and how you present it. Even your sense of humor and light-heartedness intertwined with the detail and focus of the subject makes the videos much more enjoyable! Great job, sir!
Interesting comment about 'Old Ironsides' the framing (ribs) were built of live oak, because the way it grows lends itself to making curved pieces of great strength.
The town of Live Oak Florida was originally established by the Federal Government as a lumber reserve for shipbuilding for that reason.
Live oak is considered a "white oak" species.
Thank you 👍🏼. You’re speaking my language car guy enjoying my saw mill! Great video
As a family of boat builders white oak is king. Especially when it comes to steaming and bending ribs and others requiring a single beam to bend. Good presentation, oh yea, it strengthens with age when damp or wet!
Awesome explanations! Thank you!
Mark loved this video. Great info and your sense of humor is right up my alley. Great job brother
awesome thank you much!
I’m 75 and have never heard this topic described simpler or better.
You are too kind, thank you!
Gary Fairbrother Sorry to hear that. About being 75. Lol
Daniel Holt XXL What a crap comment ! Sorry to hear you are ignorant ! Lol
@@danielholtxxl4936 You're shit.
@@danielholtxxl4936 What a dick, you sure could use a god smack, I am sure one is coming.
Red oak, when first harvested, does indeed have a reddish hue to the wood. This, however, tends dissipate over time as the wood dries. It is also a faster growing tree (in fact, the fastest growing of all oaks), which is why it is more commonly used and of lower price.
You sir are my new favorite professor on this platform. Great explanation, today I'm a little bit wiser from your words and for that I thank you.
As a homeowner in central Illinois, I really liked the white oak habit of dropping its fall leaves in a week or two. Yard cleanup was not a problem. Currently, as a homeowner in central Wisconsin our red oak drops previous season leaves every month of the year. Yard looks crappy all year.
Great succinct informative video. It’s noticeable and appreciated how you prepare what you’re going to say so you don’t stumble, ramble or leave out important bits. Wish more you tubers were as professional and conscientious as you. 🙏
A great explanation for things that (follow me here:) most non-professional, professional youtuber "wood workers" never even know to tell you... because they don't know.
That is very helpful and informative. I'm always hesitant on going to the lumber yard but this gives me much needed tools.
White oak has a sort of vanilla smell to it and red oak smells like cat poop when you cut it.
Interesting, but somehow i'm not really sure i really needed to know that. Some factoids are maybe left buried!
Of course those probably smell worse when you dig them up.
Bullshit
@@daviddawson1718 No, cat shit. Weren't you paying attention?
@@blackrabbit212 are you sure you don't just need to blow your nose and brush your teeth?
For comments with sarcastic tones and for tips from the know-it-alls out there, scroll down......
This video, starting at 5:00, gives a much better description of why the USS Constitution was as strong as she was. It isn't just because of the White Oak. I do recommend watching the entire video if you are a History buff, but I marked it at the wood working relevant point. Also if you haven't seen "Master and Commander: Far Side of the World" what is wrong with you?
th-cam.com/video/_Iwea41ua0Y/w-d-xo.html
Agreed about "Master and Commander..."! And choosing the lesser of two weevils.
I have the DVD. TH-cam also has it for free. Great movie.
Another great educational video, thank you Mark!
Thank you!
Interesting fact about oak lumber and presumably any lumber for that matter): the more spacing between each ring indicates faster growth and that also makes it slightly weaker than lumber with closer ring spacing. Where i studied for my forestry degree in southern illinois the soil conditions were great for fast growth but this translated to slightly weaker lumber. In the rocky and rugged soils of the Missouri Ozarks the growth is very slow but also makes very sturdy oak lumber.
Cool video, man. Glad I found this channel. I definitely learned a few things. I think I like the quarter sawn look. It's got a lot of character to it.
I used to work for a farmer throughout high school and he had me doing fencing in a swampy area of the cow pasture. The were many split white oak posts that had been there for decades and they showed no sign of rotting despite being in an extremely wet environment. The red oak didn’t do nearly as well.
Red Oak is not good for anything outside in a wet environment. White oak is. The best wood for fence posts is Locust. It is rock hard and lasts for decades. Vikings also used white oak for ship building. Red Oaks often rot from the inside of the heart wood, leaving a living tree hollow inside. White oaks are less likely to rot this way, so usually live longer. A white oak in my yard lived to be 115 yro. It was not rotten inside. It just died. I miss that tree.
Thank you for clearing that up!
I like white oak better than red oak.
Thanks WS, I had no idea what the difference was between quarter, straight and rift. Direct, to the point, and you provided samples, the way vids should be.
I really appreciate you getting right to the point without a lot of blather. Your info is exactly what I'm looking for and I don't have to scream in frustration while you discuss ... the weather. Thank you for being so concise!
Great job well taught by you sir
Nicely done!!! I have been trying to tell many TH-camr's to use full spectrum lighting so the camera can pick up on the subtle difference of wood types et...
If you didn't like what you saw here... *jumpcut*
Lol. Well played.
Mark, great presentation ... I have watched a lot of people trying to connect via these little videos and I've never seen anyone do it better than you did ... of course that might have something to do with the fact that you're just a pretty cool cat too....
“Kitchen built in 1992!” LOL so true
And its all painted white today. Hay white oak....ha haaa
I wish my kitchen was that new :-(
Got one ! 😝🥴
If my kitchen was built in 1992 I would consider it updated.
That means every kitchen in this town was built in 1992.
'so this ship built of white oak deflected canon fire. . . . so why would you choose white oak?'. . . . do we really need any more qualities besides deflects canon fire?
This is a primary characteristic in my house, cannon-fire at meal times
USS Constitution's hull had two layers of white oak planking which sandwiched a center layer (running perpendicular) of southern live oak. It was the live oak layer (a type of red oak) which repelled the cannon fire. Other ships of the time had only hulls double planked with two layers of white oak and were readily damaged by cannon fire.
@@JGW845 So it was like plywood !
Smartypants for the win!
Sunliner Vet an early version of Armor Proofed Plywood?
This was a great video. I’ve only been woodworking about 2 years, and I knew a few of the differences between the two but not in this much detail. And I didn’t know about the different sawing techniques. I love these lumber learning videos.
Just wait until you find woodworkingwithron and your head will blow up with knowledge. Or Paul Sellers or...
Hey Mark, always great information on your channel. I learn something new every time I listen to you!! 👍👍👍😎🇨🇱
You should have 100K subs. Very good video, and thanks for not making it 30 min long! Keep it up brother!
Haha, you're awesome thanks for recognizing our effort to keep 'em short and to the point.
It is helpful to think of wood grain as a stack of straws or tubes. In red oak the tubes are small enough to break the surface tension of water & move the water through capillary action. White oak, these tubes are segmented. These segments block the migration of water through the tube. White oak was the common wood for garage doors or other outdoor moments 100 years ago plus. These segmented tubes also make white oak a touch harder.
Thank you man. I'm building a farm table top out of 100 year red oak right now and never knew these things about red or white. I like em both.
Very interesting and thanks , my whole kitchen is built out of Quarter Sawn oak , I love the flake or tiger stripe in the wood !
Wow very informative and fun thank you for an excellent video!
The HMS Victory is still afloat, still classed as “active status”, and is 20 years older than the USS Constitution.
Yes, Victory is older. "active", Continuously commissioned" Britain did normally 'lay up' their fleets when not in use. Older vessels were routinely used as warehouse space, prisons, even bulk carriers. Victory was old, by wooden ship standards, when Nelson was aboard at Trafalgar. And likely 'laid up in Ordinary" at the end of that conflict or a future conflict. Hence, not continuously commissioned. All of it is just semantics, a great vessel is a great vessel.
@@Sailor376also Old Ironsides is occasionally sailed whereas HMS Victory sits on a sandbar and does not go anywhere.
@@dougrobinson8058 Yes, absolutely. Last time she was sailed was in the mid 1990's but,, with the exception of dry dock for hull repairs, she has remained afloat. Is afloat today, and untied from her dock once a year to turn her around. Anyone can and everyone should tour her. I have ,, and at 6'4" I found it very enlightening, and head bonking, to explore her. 4 and 5 feet 'tween decks is normal. The diagonal riders were gone when I first saw her,, but the scars and paint marks clearly showed where they were. I have not seen her since they were reinstalled in the 1990's. For any woodworker,, she is a marvel.
Continuously commissioned is the distinction for the USS Constitution. The HMS is Victory is not floating it's been in dry dock for nearly 100 years now.
Ages ago i toured sister ship USSConstellation in baltimore. Very very cool.
Don't be reluctant to get into the botanical stuff, I came here to learn.
Otherwise the content is awesome, I learned a ton from your videos!
I think "reluctant" more than "ashamed", eh?
@@leehaelters6182 English isn't my native language, but I'm always trying to improve my English skills, thank you for pointing that out.
@@NomenNescio99, and thank you for not taking offense! L
@@NomenNescio99, and nice pooch!
Great video and such a cool story about Old Ironsides, I had no clue! Oak has long been my favorite tree, I even named my TH-cam channel after it, but after that story I might be working with it a bit more now!
Hello, great video. Live oak which is of the white oak family, is abundant where I live in Natchez Ms. The limbs will grow out so far and sag till they touch the ground, then the end of the limbs that touch the ground sometimes reroot and grow into a massive creature looking tree. They grow wild out in the woods here and that is where you see most of the wild-looking ones. The wood is heavy and it grows its limbs just about as big as its trunk when old. They truly do look alive right around dark. I don't know if it is in any pictures but lookup''James Foster house'' or ''The foster mound house'' in Natchez ms. I use to live there and it's built on an Indian mound. IT has 200yr old live oaks growing in front of it and in the back of it. There is one growing on the corner in the back that is supposed to be the largest live oak trunk around here. It picked the end of the house up with its roots. I'm saying all this because a lot of comments were asking about live oaks and how to tell them apart from other oaks. If you look this up you will see how they are shaped having huge trunks but only12 or 16 ft tall then the l.imbs grow out from the top of the trunk and they are massive and long. Mt Repose is around the corner and has many live oaks you can see in pictures.
Such a great video and explanation...you can't but to love the presentation...Keep it up :)
I always going thru the stacks looking for rip sawn lumber. Just love the character.
Great description
I was hoping you would give us some insight on "live" oak. I've never worked with it, but was wondering why I always see other woodworkers either get big grins or cringes of death whenever live oak is mentioned.
That's because live oak is not easy to work with and rarely grows straight, which makes trying to make straight boards and other components very tricky. Also in my experience you should either work it green or have very sharp tools or you will not cut even a somewhat dry piece of lumber, at least not without some frustration and it can even chip the blade of a tool if your not careful since its so hard(its tougher than white oak) I only know because I did that to a tool myself. However, anything made from it as far as i know, is bound to last due to its hardness and resistance to rot, its also a very beautiful wood in most cases.
This was great, thank you!
Please do more of these videos!
This may be somewhere in the comments but red and white refer to two sub genus of quercus. There are several species in each. I am in Oklahoma. Common red oaks here are the northern red oak, black oak, willow oak, shumard oak and blackjack oak, among others. Among our white oaks are bur oak, chinquapin oak and post oak.
i recently viewed some of the oldest and largest Pin Oak trees in West Virginia owned by Kanawha City they are on Vennable Ave. Diameter of at least 4' . Several oaks line this avenue near I-77 and I-64. Several other large pin oaks are near Charleston Memorial Hospital across the Kanawha River from the Capitol and they are very large also. One resident paid $2,000 to have some limbs removed as he told me.
I am not aware of whether this concern was commented upon but you failed to mention that quarter-sawn boards do not expand as much as plain-sawn boards. As a result, tops and sides made with QS boards are more stable during seasonal changes. This is important to cabinet makers. Quarter-sawn boards yield less useable lumber and thus are more expensive.
I have a house that was built in 1922, and all the structure is built out of red oak, (1400 sq. Ft.). The foundation and basement is 18 thick inch cut stone. Lath and plaster, and center-cut fir floors, with a red oak sub floor, and 12 foot ceilings.
It's really nice until you go to hang a picture, then the 100 year old oak says "You are NOT putting a nail in me!"
All the oak is flat cut on a circular sawmill. it would be scary to think how much that would cost today.
I bet your lumber is true to dimension too. A 2x4 is really 2" x 4"!
I install a lot of oak floors and many people dont like that red oak has a reddish tint to it before its stained and after. It will age with a red tint to it where white oak doesnt.
White oak is a great choiice for flooring and especially in kitchens
@1:14: When people talk about red and white oaks, they are talking about the two main _groups_ of oak species, _not_ merely the two species that happen to be called red oak and white oak (scientifically or colloquially). E.g., _Q. Buckleyi_ is a red oak and _Q. Macrocarpa_ is a white oak. Between the two groups, there are differences in leaf shape (pointed vs. rounded), tannins (high vs. low), wood characteristics (e.g., ray prominence), etc.
Yes, ncooty, you are right. Red oak and white oak each contain numerous species that have numerous characteristics in common. One of those characteristics is color. The red oak woods tends to be slightly red although with a lot of variation, whereas the white oak boards tend to be grayish.(although the color, with its variations, is not usually dependable for classification.
The USS Constitution was built out of southern live oak, Quercus Virginiana. It is even harder than normal white oak, and the grain is interlocked and curly. I have wonderful live oaks in my yard. When you hit a piece with an ax, there is a spark . Whoa. And it is immortal. A dead live oak will stand in your yard forever.
The hull consisted of three layers with the outer and inner horizontal layers being made of white oak and the center vertical layer being made of live oak.
Does live oak even grow in Va today? I know it's common down south I had several in my yard in Florida. In Va at my home it's all white and black oaks literally well over 100 densely packed.
My understanding is live oak is the best of all oaks for ship building. It's also a protected tree in many localities today, I couldn't remove one from my yard that was getting into my sewer line. I was told no unless it was damaging the foundation.
Sorry it took me so long to see this.............nicely done. I thought I knew something about oak...Ohio. Tons of it. I learned alot! Thanks!
Very nice. I'm in St. John's az. Can't wait till I can trip d ok wn to the valley. Exciting stuff
I’ve asked this question before and only got vague smart alec answers; thank you.
The quality of comment section was why I subscribed...thanks for vid and those who taught me today!
While there is specific trees for red oak and white oak, when you are talking about lumber red oak and white oak refer to the different family of oaks. Oak is split up into 2 different family's. When you buy red oak lumber it can be any member on the red oak family, red, black, scarlet, ect. When you buy white oak it can be white, post, live, chestnut, ect. The biggest difference between the 2 is white oak is a little more brown in color and the diffuse porious wood in white oak is filled with a salt like substance that make it's slightly less resistance to rot.
Exactly the comment I wanted to make!
Yes true, sorry for the mistake
Red oak, White oak, it all burns good in my stove.
Mine too ! 12 heavily wooded acres , in 5 years I still haven't culled all the dead/dying trees ...
A3Kr0n all trees are fire wood in my world. Works good in my stove too.
hi there i know if you cut a 1/8 slice off the end grain of a board you can see threw the the red but not the white john
Great info.
Red oak is soft, spongy trailer park oak. White, Aussie and English brown are kings.
Now i thought the constitutiin was built with "live oak" should i assume live oak is a type of white oak?.....
Update: haha i just now read your post.
Awesome video thanks Mark
Glad you enjoyed it thank you
Great video... very informative.👍🏼
Great video. One point of correction, the USS Constitution's hull was built of Live Oak. The Navy actually has a grove of Live Oak trees they use when the ship needs repair.
The way I understand it is we are both right. According to the Navy, live oak was used on a lot of the framework, but the hull was indeed white oak.
@@WoodworkersSourcecom The hull was a composite of three layers with the outer and inner horizontal layers being made of white oak and the center vertical layer being made of live oak. It was the live oak that gave the hull its iron like strength. Live oak has a density of 63lbs/ft3 vs white oak 47lbs/ft3.
I would like to see him machine live oak. You can get it after a hurricane blows through the south east.
@@davepeterson3449 I've got about 200 bf of live oak and mesquite (i live in south Texas), the stuff is bullet proof.
The outer planks as well as many structural members in the ship (like knees) are indeed white oak. The hull planks range from 4 - 5" thick at the top of the sides to nearly 9" where it meets the keel. The innermost hull planking (called ceilings) were a variety of woods depending where they were. These were mostly pine or fir. The designer of the ship, Joshua Humphreys, insisted that the frames be made of live oak, even though it cost them 5 times more that the white oak. This was for strength and resiliency.The live oak would last much longer and since these were frames, it was a major effort to gain access to them for replacement. These frames run vertically between the top rail of the deck down to the keel. The space between frames was approximately 2". So looking at the ship without the white oak planking it would still look like it was almost solid wood. So it was a combination of the white oak exterior and the nearly solid wall of live oak behind it that repelled cannonballs.
Great job. I'm surprised you didn't explain the porous properties of Red Oak. I'm a new subscriber and looking forward to your other videos.
Yooo small thing, but keeping the name of the wood you were speaking about for like a whole minute while you were talking about it to make sure we were able to follow along was a nice touch 👌🏼
Quarter sawn white oak is my favorite wood to work with, I've taken to using ammonia fuming to darken it prior to finishing it. I love the resulting dark coloration.
Interesting never heard about this how does it work
Great videos to watch, very helpful to new woodworkers. Fyi i have been aboard ol iron sides. Shes beautiful, and worth the trip to Boston.
One feature of the two oaks discussed that you didn’t mention is the difference in the aroma emitted by them . White oak has an aroma that smells somewhat like cotton candy when being worked, or like something you’d enjoy eating. Red oak frequently smells sour, not unlike vomit. The odor or aroma of the two woods may also help explain why the white is used for casks instead of the more odiferous red.
As a cabinet builder I’ve only built one rather disappointing (from my standpoint) kitchen with red oak while I’ve done several with white...a much more pleasing appearance. The white also tools better, and is much more uniform in color and texture.
Enjoyed the video and the ensuing comments and discussion...very informative.
Reds have much more tannins in them. That's why they smell sour, why wildlife likes white oak acorns more and why when working with red oak a lot some people's hands actually react with the tannins and turn black (first hand... knowledge)
Love burning red and white oak in the woodstove.After woodlots are select cut,i trim and cut the tops.White oak actually has a more pleasant smell than red,Red oak is also easier and cleaner to split with a pink hue,white oak is much more stringy,with a caramel hue,by far,my favorite wood to cut.FYI
Awesome video! Very informative.
I am a big fan of quarter sawn white oak and unless I missed it, you did not mention the most important plus to quarter sawn white oak. That is how stable it is in humidity changes, good article. Thanks for sharing
This was a great video! Thanks Mark.
I have many black walnut trees over 50 years old on my property and l thought l knew what the bark is supposed to look like. Recently a few branches broke off one of these trees on an extremely windy day. I snapped a small branch in half and a very pleasant aroma was released, definitely not that of a black walnut branch. Does white oak have a particular fragrance?
White Oak was preferred for wooden wagon wheels. In Europe it was boiled before use to last even longer..
Very educational. Thanks.
Very informative thank you!
dont forget live oak :) Old Ironsides is trippled planked, her center layer of planking is Southern Live Oak. cannaon balls blow through white oak alone. Great video, thanks
Red oak tears up my throat when I cut it. When I cut on the table saw or when I cut with a chain saw. I hate cutting oak. I once was stupid n my 20s I paid a sawmill to saw up some water oak and sweet gum. They asked me if I was making hog toughs outta the sweet gum. That water oak wouldn't even air dry covered up, it rotted. I guess you need a kiln to dry it to make it any good. Turns out live oak makes good furniture wood. White oak between Atlanta and louisiana look so different. I had to cut some trees on my property and I had to cut a 10 inch white oak. I hated cutting that down I like white oaks and they are so good for deer populations. Then I killed a medium 20 inch white oak by dirt work. It's been dead over a year, the bark is still on it with no mushrooms or fungus. I'm gonna have to saw it down and saw it up. But my biggest project is a tupelo gum about 30 inches in dbh and it's been dead about 4 years still solid too, they are more decay resistant than white oak! But I'm planting about 20k osage orange tight around the 24 acres. And some swamp locust and honey locust and 100 black walnut are sitting in a box to plant tomorrow. The black walnut I'm gonna plant probably about 9 to 12 feet apart lining my road. Then in 10 or 15 years I might thin them and be able to have a little black walnut lumber and some walnuts too.
Great video. Straight to the point. Just how I like em. Subscribed!
Thank you!
Good info, thanks!
White oak is also great for wood shingles although it is quite heavy.
I live in Florida and we mostly live oak and wondered why it's not used in wood working
Not bad video but very incomplete then again who would watch a 20 minute video about red vs. white oak? Sounds more like a cold war story....
Nice video. When I used to live up in the backwoods of far Northwest Wisconsin (near Spooner), I'd cut a lot of Red & White Oak to burn in my Woodburning cook stove. They made the absolutely BEST COALS that lasted a long time! The White Oak was more "stringy" & could be a "pain" to split vs. Red Oak!! Both were as hard as rock, maybe because they were dead dry trees (never had to cut live trees on my 120 acres!). I would also use these Oak stumps to shoot into with my big bore muzzle loading rifles to test for penetration! Chain sawing into White Oak may have been harder than Red Oak (???). But these two woods (among various others) made glorious red orange coals, a sight to behold!!! "Ach du lieber, mein schatz", und"Gesundheit"!
Good info!
The description of where the names red oak and white oak come from are off a little... There's a less politically correct origin.
Red oak AND white oak leaves turn red in fall...
The designation is from the leaves. Red oak leaves are pointed, like the arrows of Indians, and white oak leaves are rounded like white settlers musket balls.
That's how it was taught in all 3 of the grade schools I went to 40 years ago anyway
Besides the red leaves in the fall, red oak does have a pinkish cast which shows up in the lighter stain colors and especially when finished natural using a solvent based finish (oil modified poly, conversion varnishes, etc...). White oak also has a more acidic property (higher tannic acid content) than red oak, which can make the wood look "green", especially when a water-based coating is used on it. Care must be taken to avoid this. You will also definitely get more pronounced "figure/fleck" (medullary rays) with white oak versus red oak in the quarter-sawn cut.
Cool video, thumbs up!!
hey nanny just told me what i was wondering until fall. leaves changed colour n discover that we have red oak n black ash for bow making. i’m wondering if you have any tips on reading red oak tree. knots twists etc. should i use a tree about foot in diameter or saplings. n what’s difference in wood characteristics between 6 in sapling vs 1 ft tree