The Battle for the Ancient Mass
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ต.ค. 2012
- Father Calvin Goodwin, FSSP, from Our Lady of Guadalupe Seminary in Denton, Nebraska discusses the history and struggles associated with the Traditional Latin Mass in this hour long talk. For more info on the FSSP please go to fssp.com/press/
re-adoption of the Latin Mass is growing. Over 500 US Parishes now have it.
Hello! This talk was given 10 years ago and a friend just sent it to me! THANK YOU FOR RELEASING THIS TALK AGAIN! So timely! I will be sending this talk out to many of my Catholic Friends! THANK YOU AND MAY THE GEACE OF OUR LORD COVER YOU EVERY DAY! In Our Lady!
I always thought that the Tridentine Mass was gone forever, until I rediscovered it in Australia, Deo Gracias!
Roy, where in Australia are you hearing the Latin Mass?
I'm a protestant, but I pray for the catholic church and the pope frequently because the whole world has fallen into peril since the catholic church has been infiltrated and subverted. I pray that the old liturgy will be restored and that by some miracle a pope will be ordained by GOD who will come forth with the power of the holy spirit and clean out the Vatican. I pray for a pope who will speak to the people of the world with a firm voice. Someone who will rebuke the error that has befallen civilization. I pray for a pope who will stand against the evil that is over taking the world. I pray God will restore the churches. I pray God will appoint proper leadership in every town and city and country. I pray he will restore the former glory of the church. I have asked many times, "Where can I find the true church today," but no one can tell me. I would return to the Catholic church at once if the liturgy were restored, or if I could find a sound traditional catholic church in my town. I have searched and I cannot find one in Baltimore Maryland. There is only one who does the Latin mass in my town and its Saint Alphonsos, but someone told me that what they are doing isnt the true Latin mass. I can't tell the difference since I'm coming from Protestantism.
Its sad, but many Catholics have become evangelicals because they thirst for righteousness, they thirst for the word of God, they want to learn ab the bible, and the catholic priests today are not reading nor explaining the scriptures. The people yearn to hear someone speak against the culture also, so when they hear the evangelicals preaching hard and speaking boldly against sin they go with them. The people yearn to hear the gospels read out loud by someone who actually believes them, but what happens in the Catholic church today is that some infiltrator, who hates the bible and Christ comes out and waters down the mass and the sermon and the music and the people just cant stand it. The catholic people don't know where else to go, so they become evangelical. But even afterwards they long for the true mass, even as an evangelical I yearn for the Latin mass, so I watch it online and listen to it every night while I fall asleep. It seems like what happened in the 19th /20th century is that we were made to choose between biblical preaching and the mass. Unfortunately in the 21st century nether one is being offered because wolves are in charge. No food is being provided for the sheep at all and, so the sheep are literally starving to death. Souls are going to hell left and right. We need help. MAY GOD HELP US ALL!
you should become Catholic. It is necessary for salvation.
Pray the Holy Rosary each day and our Mother will bring you to her Son and our Saviour. I will pray the Rosary for you. God bless you.
Thank you for your comment. What you say is true, on both scores. I suggested that our Protestant friend pray the Rosary, because Our Queen and Mother can enlighten and guide anyone of good will who prays her Rosary and is faithful to praying it, so that that person arrives at the Catholic Church and is able to embrace and to profess the true faith. I mean the true Church founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ, not the Modernist counterfeit currently parading itself as the Catholic Church which has seduced so many souls to profess a false religion.
Do not listen to anyone but yourself, if you think the Church is something you would like to try. If the St. Alphonsus Church you are talking about is the FSSP Apostolate, I say go. Listen to the sermon. Does the priest nurture souls or does he spend time bashing Vatican II? If he spends time bashing Vatican II, he is being political and not worth listening to. If he nurtures souls, teaches the avoidance of habitual sin, teaches the offering of prayers even for the enemy, etc., he is a good priest. Those who try to make you avoid churches are playing into the devil's hands, fostering division and abandonment of the Church. Don't listen to them. Go and find out for yourself. One who replied here told you try FSSP, SSPX, ICK. I second that advice.
8ElionAdvancing8 I know the priest at St Alphonsus. It's legit. He's legit. Anyone that says otherwise is speaking lies and ignorance to you. Tell Fr K hi for me when you go.
We need this Mass.
I loved the Latin Mass and dearly wish it would return. There is so much reverence and beauty in it. Edification was always evident. We, as Catholic people are in need of it again. I need to find this Mass in my area. I believe the salvation of souls is at stake.
just google it. Different ways. You'll find one tho you may have to drive a bit. Just go to one, then later you can parse out which you feel is the "best" or truest one: FSSP, SSPX, ICK, Diocesan, independent. Just go. Let the true mass open your heart. Then you can work out the details of which is the "best" one later on., That's how to start. I am so glad I found the true mass. It ws not easy.
+falldown6getup7
Don't advice people to attend a mass with the sspx.
I would absolutely advise and, indeed, exhort Catholics to attend SSPX chapels. The idea that one would worry about a group that has asked for no more than the Church provide bread, not stones, and fish rather than serpents would be branded extra ecclesiam is one of such depth of imbecility as to be, as the Viennese would say, not even worthy to be ignored.
Sharon Dragan ĺplĺlllllĺlllĺllpppp0pppppppppĺllĺĺl
Andreas Benson
The sspx are fine! They are not in schism or excommunicated! I would advise people to definitely advise people to attend their mass
I am 73 years old and remember Harvey Cox's book. It caused a big stir back then and set the direction for our culture that disturbingly has brought us to this ungodly stage of our present society. His ideas and others like him have even impacted the church.
Thanx be to God fo FSSP in our city!
joannabuk thanks be ro God for the SSPX or you would not have the FSSP
@@bbstar7970 God can use evil to bring about a greater good. But that should not encourage us to do evil.
@@andersonbush1130? Sspx isn't evil.
Christmas 1958: Went out into the cold Sheboygan,Wisconsin winter night to serve a 3AM Latin High Mass for Father Ledvorowski at Holy Name Church. He needed to get one of his three Christmas Masses in before leaving for his family in South Milwaukee. We said the Mass at a side altar with only the six beeswax candles and the Christmas lights of the nearby Christmas Crib display. Priest and his acolyte in the depth of a cold dark winter. Timeless!! We were not alone as a small bat came out of the choir loft and hovered over us as we celebrated the Mass!! Wonderful experience that Bergoglio and his stooges like Cupich will never appreciate through their fog of Heresy!! Greatest Evil Post Vatican II has been the suppression of the Latin Rites!! Goal is to eradicate any remnants of Traditional Catholicism to lay the groundwork for an as yet undesignated religious component to Global Governance under the UN!!
I think we may have wandered into the same church in Paris, perhaps? Eglise St Germain l'Auxerrois. It has the most moving Pieta I have ever seen, in a little chapel at the back that feels itself like a sepulchre. A true testament to the Faith of the ages.
Listening to this in June, 2017 is really fascinating., Look at what has happened to the church in such a short time! I will never understand why POpe Benedict XVI resigned, and who was made the Pope next!! This is truly God writing straight with crooked lines. One result for me, however, is that I pray more and am actively involved in the traditional "movement". Maybe if it had become easy to attend the Latin traditional mass, I would not have become as dedicated and active to bring back the true mass. I'm sure that is true for many of us. We will not give up and the true Church will never die.
Jesus said if you do not follow the authority of the pope, which is the authority of Christ, then you will go to hell (Mat 18:17). Therefore, the traditional Catholic movement can only be seen as demonic because it promotes the opposite attitude to the words of God.
Naive
@@neilrowland5165 Matt 18:17 says nothing of that sort.
Secundum Mattheum 18:14-17
14. Sic non est voluntas ante Patrem vestrum, qui in cælis est, ut pereat unus de pusillis istis. 15. Si autem peccaverit in te frater tuus, vade, et corripe eum inter te, et ipsum solum: si te audierit, lucratus eris fratrem tuum. 16. Si autem te non audierit, adhibe tecum adhuc unum, vel duos, ut in ore duorum, vel trium testium stet omne verbum. 17. Quod si non audierit eos: dic ecclesiæ. Si autem ecclesiam non audierit, sit tibi sicut ethnicus et publicanus.
Which, as you can see, Is talking about if somebody commits an offence against you, and refuses to privately resolve the matter. Ecclesiam being the local congregation.
Your proof-texting is akin to that of Westboro Baptist Church.
@@tiktoktimex603 As you and I can clearly see the matter goes to the church and if they do not listen to the church then they are a gentile or tax collector as this version you have quoted says in verse 17. In other words, he is no longer in the church for not following the authority of the church in their judgment. Which church? The one Jesus just set up a few chapters earlier when He gave the keys of David to Peter (Mat 16:18-19).
@@lucillebonds4332 Jesus says if you do not follow the authority of the church you are not in it, in other words, you will not go to heaven (Mat 18:17). So you can have faith in Jesus and believe in the Catholic Church and not listen to the pope and you will go to hell. The SSPX and the Traditional Catholic community which has its origins in the SSPX, believes the pope is the pope but will not follow him and the church on such matters as Vatican 2 and so on.
Please God we need the prevatican II mass to fill our need to give you the adoration and love you deserve for giving us the mass
To let us kneel and receive your body and blood in true admiration and in true atonement for our sins !
Thank you.. yes I started with the gregorian chant and now I am more inclined going back to the traditional mass.
As a Lay person, ever since i came to Canada; i never comfortable with all the Vatican 11, Mass. But this is we have as I am growing up. The traditional Mass, in Latin or in English...it did help me so much to keep my strong Faith. I was a Cursillista, in Charismatic my home town in the 70's. And this is so beautiful, practice that help me focus in God's Holy Mass. in traditional Mass.I am trying to pray, pray and pray, O Abba Daddy, Your only Son , Jesus, and the Holy Spirit: Please, Come help us all creatures. We are Your property...please, help us! COME PELASE, HELP US! Abba"
This Battle Belongs to the Lord ❤🙏
I do not think it is possible after the Motu Propio. But let us continue to keep the latin mass alive and make it popular. It's beauty attracts by itself.
Thank you, Father Goodwin. Let us trust in Jesus Christ and thank Him all he has done for us and given us. Let us give the Church the help she needs. Nothing, as you said, that we can do for the restoration of the Church, is lost. "Our job is to see as God sees, and then be on the move." Pray for us that we may take your counsel and run with it.
Inspiring reflection on the facts of Catholic Church which JESUS founded on Easter Sunday to HIS APOSTLES
Great reply.
Wow, talk about seeing the future.
How timely this remains, it now being March 2023.
We need more of this and more common sense in our approach to Tradition as a Anglo-Catholic convert to Rome I miss the ancient Rite.The Ordinariate has many RC who prefer the Traditional and they are packed by single mothers and young people, strange isn`t? The spirit of 1962 has been an excuse to push a Evangelical agenda that I think nobody at that time would have wanted or believed possible.The Church must return to a more positive approach and loving understanding which is what POPE FRANCIS is now looking do.There are many Clergy who resist because they are children of this new REFORMATION WITHIN THE CHURCH BUT GOD`S CHURCH WILL ENDURE AND SURVIVE.GOOD POST!!!
One man may not restore or remove the Traditional Latin Mass. To restore the Latin Mass, in addition to prayer the youth will need to advocate its use and restoration on a wide scale again. Continue to pray for FSSP and priests who remain in full communion with Rome who pray the Tridentine Mass.
Very interesting May Gods will be done let the restoration begin May God Be praised always
This marvelous talk brings me back to those days of which I, too, was a part. Today, in 2018, the Holy Traditional Mass is available, but it is not easily accessible, due to the evil removal
of this One True Mass of our Ancestors, leaving only the new and constantly changing
thing called the 'mass' today. Sorry, folks -- it is not! Those of us who still remember the
heady days of belonging to such magnificence and beauty so long for its return, but are
comforted by the vivid memories of the Mass given to us by Jesus Christ Our King, by which
we were raised and given our spiritual anchor. May God and Our Dear Lady have mercy on
those today who know nothing of the Truth -- this has been and IS a planned and carefully
executed by Satanic forces, and see? The beginning of my message has been removed!
Keep the Faith, please - and pray you will have the strength for martyrdom should it be
required of those who refuse to accept God's enemies for our leaders! jje
God is going to bring the Latin mass back! Pray Pray Pray!!!
One Christ One Faith ONE MASS One Baptism
Amen!
I would like a transcription of the excellent video; is it available anywhere?
Hello. Any idea what painting that is used in thumbnail? Thank you and God Bless.
Pope Benedict XVI has done his part so all we have to do is do our part too
This liturgy connects with the other Rites. If the Latin Rite is the major Rite of the West, and if the Byzantine Rite is the Rite of the East, then the Tridentine Mass and the Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom reflect both West and East.
This was posted 11 years ago. The content was somewhat hopeful..hopeful that the latin mass would soon come to a revival in our churches. It was a time when we, never in our wildest imagination, that the future Pontiff will issue the traditionis custodis 😢😢😢
Tradition "Old School" Latin Mass is before the Vatican II council but it is more and more rare to find because people don't understand Latin and that turns them off. Some The Roman Catholic Church of Pope Pius XII and before is the TRUE Church. I assume that is what I meant when you asked if the Novus Ordum is still valid. I go to the Latin Mass to try to be part of the OLD TRUE Church. Since I don't understand Latin I use the books they give you each mass to follow along as on the left side is Latin and the right side is the English Translation. For the Our Father prayer though I quietly say the English part (the whole thing) while the Priest says it in Latin and the mass usually says the end part out loud. I do what my soul leads me to do. I will do more research (as I have been doing on what happened at the time just after the death of Pope Pius XII). Still so much to learn.
I pray for more vocations to the Doloran Fathers and the OAD Discalced Augustinians.
And then along came Francis.
Hi Sensus, I'm still quite confused, is SSPX in schism or not? If it isn't what's the difference between the SSPX and the FSSP?
Shenuka Jayasinghe No, the SSPX is not in schism, they are in a canonical irregular communion. The FSSP is very similar to the SSPX however I find that as a whole, they are less openly critical of modernism and the New Mass. Perhaps this is because they signed a document with the Vatican stating their approval of the “orthodoxy” and “legitimacy” of the Missal of Paul VI and key documents of Vatican II. Also, I’m not sure if this is true or not, but I hear that FSSP priests have to “concelebrate” the Novus Ordo Mass on occasion and are even taught to say it. The Traditional Latin Mass for the FSSP is their “charism” as a priestly society. Although I like the FSSP, I wish they would have the backbone to constructively criticise the Novus Ordo Mass and the Modernist errors like the SSPX does
@@user-oh3tl7je1q This is false. The priests of the FSSP are not “required” to say the new mass or forced to concelebrate the new mass. They are also not trained to do the new mass and they exclusively do the TLM at all their parishes. They have very solid preaching now every homily isn’t Vatican II bad, yet to say that they are somehow just a watered down SSPX is a mischaracterization of the FSSP and their priest as well as the rumors of the FSSP being “compromised” and “forced to do the new mass”.
@@user-oh3tl7je1q - Hello, to your comment of , you heard that FSSP have to ''concelebrate'' the N O mass, It is Not true, I live in Canada and I have attended FSSP mass for 7 yrs. now, I have Not seen or heard that they concelebrate ANY N O mass, as in France recently, they were ''kick out '' because they refuse to concelebrate in France. They chose to leave France. My own priest do not know or want to say the N O mass.
I know a few priest here locally are friends with the SSPX and I myself would attend SSPX masses. They are both doing good work for God and for us. Thanks to Bishop Lefebvre !
May God bless all people !
When in the beginning he mentioned the "very Holy Father," I thought he was talking about Pope Francis. I was very confused.
Pope Benedict xvi
Rembert Weaklund mentioned around 16:45 was a really bad archbishop of Milwaukie who did a "wreckavation" to a church there that was a disaster. After the damage was done, he was found to be a deviant priest.
"Weakland stated in his autobiography that in the early years of the sexual abuse scandal he did not understand that child sexual abuse was a crime." (Wikipedia)
Being cognisant of the hermeneutic of continuity, why didn't Pope Benedict offer the Mass of Pius V in public?
Hasten slowly
Paul VI was an outright modernist and a disaster for the Church. A weak man split between what he should do, and what we did by dragging the church into accepting and embracing modernity. This vicar abandoned tradition and trampled on the supernatural nature of the Church thereby damaging Catholic unity. He propounded this cult of man and the desire to create utopia on earth. Nothing can excuse him for this. The damage, he inflicted was deep and traumatic. He failed in his main role of teaching and supporting his brothers in the faith.
In fact he destroyed, or prevented from forming, the Catholic faith in many many young people born after Vatican II . His weakness and cowardice was evident by the fact that he knew that Vatican II was destroying the Church - smoke of Satan - and still he failed to act.
I don’t get it, my parish offers the old traditional Latin mass every Sunday and other Latin masses through out the week. We do belong to the San Bernardino Diocese , Holy Roman Catholic Church
Yes, this is possible and becoming more common today. Not so before 2007, and definitely not so between 1970 and 1988
What's to get? They banned (un officially) the TLM when they introduced the Novus Ordo. Archbishop LeFebvre said, no thanks, it's our right as Catholics to have the Tradtional Latin Mass so the Church had to react to prevent Catholics from going to the SSPX, they offered "indult masses" in many dioceses and formed the FSSP as a counter to the SSPX. That's the historical truth, verifiable and undeniable. Archbishop Lefebvre was 100% within his rights under canon law to ordain priests and bishops due to the very real emergency situation. Archbishop LeFebvre, a HERO of the Church, ora pro nobis.
Isn’t it interesting that Pope John Paul 2, when he was a bishop, consecrated bishops without the pope knowing, yet John Paul 2 excommunicated Lefebre when he did it.
Since Archbishop Lefebvre illicitly ordained bishops, how are the SSPX Sacraments licit? I ask this in all charity and sincerity, I'm not being antagonistic.
I don't understand either. Maybe it is like the situation with the orthodox church.
Evan they are properly ordained, They just kept the faith,which what was not supposed to be changed
Evan The shortest answer is because the Vatican declares they are licit. Is that good enough or do you need more?
The Freemasonry 🔥 French Revolution & Vatican II
It wasn't the council it was the 'spirit' of the council.
The new Good Friday prayer for the conversion of the Jews is ambiguous, too, because it can suggest that since the Jews will convert when Christ returns, they don't need to be evangelized now. Ask Benedict why he didn't ask the Jews to revise what the Talmud says about Christ.
31:37
Unfortunately, many of the positive things that the good Father speaks of in relation to papal liturgical celebrations is already being rolled back under Pope Francis. I wish Benedict could have held on longer, and that a successor who was more closely aligned to his theology would have been chosen.
Yes. Sounds like the trial and tribune of Jesus.
Is this channel censoring it's commentators? A very important conversation was occurring and now all the comments are deleted. Disappointing.
+yoyoho2627 Hi yoyo, don't know what's going on either, but to answer your questions/comments I DO confess to a Novus Ordo priest BUT he was ordained in 1963. There's only a handful left in my diocese that have pre-1968 ordinations, most are well-retired. However, I have to "confess" they have been bitten by the modernist, liberal bug....in other words, I take their advice with a grain of salt at times. I used to travel 35 minutes to go see the FSSP priests, they were very godly, and confession with them rocked me to the core of my soul. But, I come to find out, that they were ordained by Novus Ordo Bishops and this is extremely troubling. Anyway, you touched upon a topic in your previous post that seems to have been deleted? I heard from the MHFM that confession falls under a different status or criteria than attending a Novus Ordo Mass. Is this what you were saying? Like, is confession ok with a Novus Ordo priest? Please explain.
+markymarc b, I want you to know I don't have all the answers. I can only share the best information and what my beliefs are according to what I think Catholic teaching compels.
First, it is true that the Sacrament of Penance can be obtained through desire (unlike the other sacraments). I believe this is God's way of ensuring that those who genuinely are sorry and want to repent for their sins can obtain absolution.
Second, it is troubling to consider where the Novus Ordo leads us. I understand the urge to want to stick with it. But we cannot turn our back on the truth. No matter what.
Third, Heaven has given Catholics many tools which are even more important in these days: the rosary, the scapular, devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, etc. We must trust in these.
Fourth, your confessions to pre 1968 priests are probably valid. Eastern Catholic Byzantine priests are an option. So are Maronite priests I belive. In addition, there are other valid priests. The CMRI may be good for, at a minimum, confession.
Finally, we must remember that the Passion of the Church must happen. We need to stick together and organize as much as possible.
+markymarc b and to clarify: do not go to confession with a priest ordained in the New Rite (post 1968).
+yoyoho2627 who are Maronite priests and CMRI? yeah, I think Byzantine isn't as corrupt as Novus Ordo. But I have to research more about penance being obtained through desire. Does that mean, that we can go to any priest of our choosing because the criteria is different? I stopped going to my parish priest, though he was ordained in 1974 by an Old Rite Bishop. I now drive 25 minutes to a Novus Ordo priest, ordained in 1963, you can tell the modernism of V2 has wore on him, but he's well meaning, and I don't doubt his valid Holy Orders and grace of Ordination. So I know there's a valid absolution whereas I would at the very least doubt other priests. As I said, the FSSP was excellent, but I too stopped going to them after I realized that they were ordained by Novus Ordo Bishops...such a shame too, they are very Holy upright men. I don't even want to entertain the idea that they may hold "in"valid ordinations. You have very good, charitable advice. You have challenged me to think, however, It always sat in the back of my mind that the Anglican Orders of Ordination were proven utterly void, and the disturbing similarity it has to the Novus Ordo ordinations. My only think to differ on, is I still may not want to face that the Novus Ordo has been rendered invalid. I may NOT want to believe that, but I'm still holding on to hoping that Christ didn't leave the Novus Ordo branch yet. Sadly, the writing is on the wall..... Thank you.
markymarc b what city do you live in? The CMRI (you can Google them) are traditional Roman Catholic priests who were validly ordained through the Thuc line of bishops. It gets very complicated about validity, but their line is about as valid as can be hoped for in the Roman Rite. Though they may not be good options for Communion if they preach openly heretical positions. Find one of them and go to Confession.
Remember the Catholic Church has several rites: Roman Rite; Eastern Rite; Maronite Rite, etc. The changes to the Rite of Ordination effected only the Roman Rite as far as I understand. That is why the Eastern Byzantine Rite (make sure it is Catholic and NOT Orthodox) is a good option to find valid priests. Again, they may not be good options for Communion depending on the level of modernism they have embraced and profess.
Again, more than anything, it is about validity at this point. FSSP are not valid as you mentioned. That is unfortunate. Novus Ordo priests are definitely not valid. Novus Ordo priests ordained pre 1968 are valid but are not viable options for Communion, only Confession.
Dropping all the old medeval ways was a move I to a greater reality: writing in 2021 after the July 2021 Moto proprio and further suppression of the Mass.
we want the real latin mass not this my grand parents knew the real latin mass they told us now we have dancing priest and all kinds of crazy stuff come on
In Quo Primum of Pope St. Pius v no one not even a Pope can stop any Priest to celebrate The Traditional Catholic Latin Mass of the Roman Rite. What the Pope did was redundant if Priests know their obligations. Read Quo Primum.
ST PETER try this one on...bit of a repeat but a goot representation of the issue from the church side.
Ok, I will have a look.
37 minutes in and no acknowledgement of the scourge of modernism and its method of gradualism.
NOW WE ARE IN APOCALYPTIC TIME.
Father seems not to know that Pope Benedict XVI wanted a hybrid rite of Mass and hoped that the traditional rite of Mass and the new one would enrich each other. So, it seems to me that Benedict had his shockingly progressive side.
I wonder where Paul VI and Annable Bugnini are? ( up or down ) - for they led so many souls to Hell with their liturgical novelty and banal theology. I am still amazed that Montini is now beatified - what for?
Would you like to listen to this talk again at the 45 minute point? Pope Paul VI was a true Catholic, but like us he was in the middle of the so called aggorniamento (with less hindsight than we have) and was suffering while seeking to find what had gone wrong.
Actually, Father quotes Paul VI at about the 44 minute mark.
dutchgables Paul VI was a modernist and a pseudo humanist.His actions and words show he had little Catholic faith in him when he was elected Pope. For he, more than anyone else, was responsible for the spiritual wasteland that's befallen the Church since 1960.
dutchgables Where the once we had the one Holy Catholic Church, united by language, practice, catechises, liturgy and belief - an effective and powerful supernatural force for good, under and then following Paul VI that was all shattered. It became a divided, confused and then haemorrhaged tens, if not hundreds of millions of members. Those who departed, and even those who clung on and remained, were betrayed and abandoned by that woeful, confused, malformed and weak pope; Paul VI.
Pope Paul VI is the victim of the evils of modernists because he was the man who was supposed to be in charge at the time (in actuality, the modernists were calling the shots behind his back). He tried to reign in the evils, but he was only one man who had very few allies.
This video is called the battle for the ancient mass. But this is in reference to the mass of the 1962 missal. That is not ancient.
Like the Soviet Union's still the Soviet Union, under a different name, no?
conversation year 1884 (missing part) POPE LEO XIII
Demons: Boss, a lot of people are wearing a new medal, the Woman crushing the head of the serpent and we are powerless against them...What is the meaning of that?
Boss (Lucifer) : Trembling, fear struck him...shaking w/ anger...(Lucifer hide from his demons Gen 3:15; the punishment by Almighty God)...and Lucifer trembling in fear of the Woman...and so in haste he fled to the Heavenly Realms to talk & plead with God...
GOD : Lonely Creature (please read Kindelmann writings God the Father called Lucifer by this name)...WHY ARE YOU TREMBLING IN FEAR?
... (.."I maybe Lonely but I'm never alone, I'LL NEVER CRY"Satan's fave song)
Lucifer: the Woman came here on earth giving the signs of my defeat, are you going to end my reign now? I beg you please not...I'm just enjoying the fruits of division from the Reformation, I'm so happy everyday the denominations, sects, groups are growing by the thousands and I project by year 2000 it will be over 30,000..Oh how happy I will be...worship of men full of hatred & rebellion to your True Church...
GOD : WHAT IF I END YOUR REIGN NOW...thru the Woman Gen 3:15?
Lucifer : Oh no, My Lord...please no, not now...I dare you, I can even destroy your True Church from within...just like what I started in Reformation...and sit on the Chair of Peter..
and you know why I desired that Chair...you deprived me to sit at your right hand back in the Holy Mountain where you found iniquities in my head that I desire to be like God...to be worship & adore just like your Majesty...
GOD : If you take the Seat of Peter, you will go nearer to the Woman the Immaculate Virgin (Mother of the Church)...it will be a suicide and the end of your reign...
Lucifer : I don't care anymore, I'm tired and old already producing a lot of saints,martyrs & beautiful soul for your kingdom...I just want before the end my reign to sit on Peter's Chair,.. you know how i long & thirst for the worship & adoration of men...I'm done w/ pagan worship & evil men adoring me...it doesn't give me pleasure anymore....
GOD : Ok..do then what you will...
Bro./Sis...please let us all wear the Miraculous Medal (Feast Day Nov. 27).
Please visit www.flameoflove.us for Kindelmann writings for a powerful New Rosary...
God bless! Blessed Ivan Merz & Bishop Obviar, pray for us.IHMMP4us.Amen
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REPLY
Did you make this up? Lots of grammatical errors makes me think you did.
I go to confession to a Novus Ordo priest ordained BEFORE Vatican II. There's not many left around by the way. But, my belief is he's still 100% valid, because he holds the unadulterated valid grace of ordination. When you get to priests that were ordained recently and by a Bishop ordained in the Novus Ordo, that's where you may want to stay clear.
The Novus Ordo Mass is questionable, but if the priest was ordained before Vatican II, I think you'd be okay. But be cautioned: You run a GREAT risk of losing the faith by attending Novus Ordo Masses. Complete different theology, repackaged and watered down. SSPX is still the closest thing to TRUE Catholicism
+markymarc_b I think our prior comments got deleted by this channel, sadly. Would like to continue our discussion.
Some of the fact here are a bit off. For example the missal of Pius V. SSPX claims that pope Pius the V said you cannot say mass by any other missal yet they do not use that missal. It caused a split in the SSPX in the 80s and many became sedevacanist. By their fruits you shall know them. Plus pope Ben 16 said all priest can say the Latin mass and lifted the excommunications of their bishops but the pope then went on to say that the priest of the SSPX cannot say the mass bec they have no legitimate ministry in the church. In their documentary video they they mention the lifting of the excommunications and all priest are allowed to say the mass by Ben 16 but leave out the part of the SSPX priest still under suspension and cannot say the mass. Why mislead people if you have the truth?
Pope Ben also said that if the priest, bishops and the people who attend have an attitude that they do not need to follow the pope they are automatically excommunicated.
I grew up in the SSPX and over 90% of the people around me who grew up in it has lost the faith, so I think it is foolish to think that only the Latin mass can save you. Yes there are abuses in the Novus Ordo, but those are largely unknown to people in the pews.
When I look at some of the things Lefebvre said I found it puzzling how it is possible for him to make such claims as an archbishop. Yes he did want to do his experiment within the church but wanted to do them in secret. In my experience the only reason you would do this is if you had something to hide.
The more you look into their claims the more it doesn't make sense. The SSPX will not save you, Jesus said if you do not follow the authority He set up with the pope then you will go to hell (Mat 18:17).
Yes I'm confused.
@@KMF3 About what?
@@neilrowland5165 is the sspx in Schism or not why or why not
@@KMF3 Yes they are. They were invited to return to the church and their choice is to remain outside the church.
@@neilrowland5165 I've heard conflicting reports
He has been ordained by God, do you not pray, "thy will be done," but rather, "my will be done?" lol
Who is ordained by God?
I never heard about harvey c ... we are now praying for satan when we pray for frank ?..... he condonrs evil and condemns good... he sins against the fire of the Holy Spirit An unpardonable sin in The Bible..
The Vatican Empire is evil now...it is time As Jesus told the Woman at The Well of Jacob to worship in spirit and in truth... inside ?. Our homes ...the time is nigh ...worship in spirit and in truth...
Not for judjement or condemnation...but for the healing of souls and bodies.... Amen
Jesus founded His Church on Peter. This Church worships in spirit and truth, but since it is in the hands of men, as Father said towards the very end of his talk, we need to pray for the Church. Not leave it. Jesus said He is with us to the end of time.
What Marcel wanted was to do things in private. He only wanted to do this because he had something to hide and in hindsight the SSPX has been linked to criminal organisations. Benedict 16th never gave anyone this provision. He also stated that priest can say the Latin mass but SSPX priest cannot say any form of the mass or practice any ministry.
That's not true. What is your evidence? M. Lefebvre did what he had to do in a time of extraordinary circumstances/emergency, just as others have done in the past, many of them are now called Saints.
Working to rescue & preserve the Church's ancient Sacred heritage & tradition from destruction via progressive influencers, which Popes LeoXIII & Pius X repeatedly warned of in their writings such as Pascendi etc, is a saintly & worthy cause, imo.
@@TheHypnag0g222 No saint of the church left the church and disobeyed the authority of Christ given to the pope and died in that state of sin. Jesus said this position is protected and if you do not obey you will go to hell. But what makes it worse is that Lefebvre made certain claims about Vatican 2, I know because I was taught this in an SSPX where I grew up. But when those documents were finally uploaded to the internet everyone who read it found out Lefebvre lied, they didn't mention these such as communion in the hand. Worse still is one of the bishops who wrote up the Vatican 2 documents was Lefebvre himself. So the entire thing is based on a lie.
We were taught that the SSPX got in trouble for saying the Latin mass. This turned out to be a lie, they got in trouble and all their priest suspended for wanting to ordain priest in secret. When I approached them about it they referred me to their website which actually has a copy of the letter they received from the church asking them not to go through with the ordinations without first going through the proper channels. This is the 76 ordinations not to be confused by the consecration of bishops in the late 80s. In the SSPX no ever speaks of it until you do the research and they have an answer but they don't promote it. Instead they give us the lie. Why? They ignored the request and made up reasons for why they would not serve the church. Those suspensions were never lifted and therefore any priestly act is a grave sin except for the temporary provisions of confession from Pope Francis, I'm not sure if that time period has run out.
They spread this lie that Pius V said you can only say the Latin mass of his missal. Pius V did in fact say this but in the context of his reign as pope and only for the Latin rite of the church. Well it turns out that the SSPX says the mass of the 1962 missal. So this lie caused a split in the 80s forming the SSPV who do not believe there is a pope.
This raises another problem bec they were following a newer version of the Latin missal from Pius V. Which means they are confirming that there was nothing wrong with the missal being revised. The NO mass is actually the latest revision of the that same missal, it's actually the Latin mass with permission to say it in the common language.
If you go read the letter from pope Benedict, he does lift the excommunications from the 4 bishops but not Lefebvre. He goes no to say that if these bishops or anyone who thinks they do not have to follow the authority of the pope, they are automatically excommunicated. Pope Benedict is actually quoting Jesus (Mat 18:17).
Too much to get into here, hop you are not caught up in this. But this should start you off in your own investigations and it does get worse. God bless.
@@neilrowland5165
He may have been involved in writing up the original documents but the original documents were trashed and they pretty much winged it from that point on.
@@TheHypnag0g222 No, that is not how it works and neither he or the SSPX ever made this claim. When you catch someone in a lie you cannot make excuses for them in order to continue to believe the lie. I believe there needs to be an investigation into his past, if it is not too late. They did the same for Malachi Martin who most believed was a good man and another side of the story was uncovered.
Grim2Slim These are all lies & you’re a giggling troll.
Yes the ancient mass is not the one you think
The original mass is from the 12th century. And Vatc II is very close to it.
Trente is just a reformation of the old mass and just a product of the 17th century!
The Didache of the Apostles has a totally other liturgy.
So even the 12th century liturgy is even not original.
So stop this stupid discussion.
Your battle for the ancient Mass is lost. It reeks of anachronism. Ex-Novus Ordo, ex-Lefevrist, ex-sedevacantist agnostic-atheist here.
The answer is never despair. And the mass countinues whether it be tridentine or some other rite.