The census data that only 3% of people used the train is a bit misleading, it was taken in the middle of a lockdown where 1/3 people were working from home (5.5% on PT total). 2016 is a bit more accurate with 2/3 people driving, while the train was around 8% (16% PT in total). Either way the point still stands that train usage is lacking
That's journalism mate, pick "facts" to suit your argument. Even then census data is just an example for a given day they decide to do the survey. And trusts people to answer honestly. Even then, when you have a large flat, spread out city, car journeys will almost all be quicker and easier.
@@74_pelicansCovid is definitely an outlier considering Melbourne was under lockdown for almost the entire year and people weren’t even allowed to go more than 5kms from their homes
@@74_pelicans Maybe in American cities with piss poor public transit. Any time I initially save with a car is quickly eaten up by the time it takes searching for a parking spot.
Well I just finished nightshift on my 54th birthday rigging a 100tonne pin-jib crane on this very project, got home and poured myself a glass of wine to greet the rising sun on this glorious spring morning and have to say was utterly delighted to see it on the B1M. I’m even in the background in one of the shots! 😂 because of my roster I was privileged enough to actually work two shifts on my birthday. 😳huzzah and happy birthday to me lol
Living in Singapore for last 15-years I can confess the variety of MRT lines w options to chart your own path to the destination are an absolute LIFESAVER. Oh man, we use it everyday and no need for a car at all.
As a Melburnian, I'm a bit sad the completion date for the entire suburban loop has been pushed out so far. Originally the entire thing was due to be finished around 2050 or so, but for a whole bunch of reasons that's slipped way back. I was looking forward to rising it in my 80s, but now it looks lke it won't be done in my lifetime (unless medical science takes a MASSIVE leap forward in the next few decades).
Holding out hope for an early completion. Metro Tunnel is at least a year ahead of schedule with some suggestions it may be done by Q4 2024. As long as pre work is done right, could lead to a good outcome.
I always wonder what takes so long. I mean, those things arent dig by hundreds of men with shovels. We have all those modern machines, just in time logistic, computers to plan and prepare everything. And still it seems things need more time then ever in history to get done.
The Chinese would have the whole thing finished by 2030, let alone 2080, they built around 600 miles of high-speed rail in 20 years, it took us Brits the past 10 years just to build 20 miles. This is the reason why I wish we in the west would stop antagonising the Chinese, can you imagine what Chinese war production would be like? They would be farting out eight destroyers a month to our one, their three largest shipyards have more shipbuilding capacity _each_ than all US shipyards combined, and they have 1.5 billion potential workers. Wars are won by the side that can replace losses the fastest, in WW2 the allies had the US, in WW3 the other guys will have China....
The attitude here in Melbourne is that the SRL connection to the airport has a high chance of getting scrapped. But we also know that Doncaster is desperately in need of transit, and Clayton/Monash is incredibly under-serviced for how important of a location it is.
Idk, I feel like the whole project is in danger of getting scrapped, especially with all this political turmoil. If anything, the airport link might be the only part that makes it, just from embarrassments from the government having to cancel the airport rail for the 20th time.
Yep, the only way to Doncaster with public transport is Buses and it is well known to not to be the best, especially during off peak (during morning and evening rush, it is fairly frequent but not reliable thou) having a train does help long term a lot
2010-2017 ‘Most livable city in the world’ 😂. HOW!!!!! I just moved here public transport is appallingly lacking. There’s the red airport bus I guess..!!
Nonsense, Australia was still a prison in the late 1800's, if there were tunnels they were dug with spoons and used for smuggling contraband into the continent from the outside.
Even a Canadian that has never been to Australia knows your statement is wrong. All I had to do was Google "Melbourne's rail network" to find out there were upgrades in the 1950s and 1970s, plus a few other closures/extensions/upgrades so your last sentence is TOTALLY incorrect. Maybe you should learn to check your facts before criticizing someone who did actually do some research.
@@shaunp9592 Hi! Both of you are actually correct. A lot of Melbourne’s inner-metropolitan stations were built in the mid-late 1800’s and early 1900’s. Some of these include: Flinders Street Station (1854), Richmond Station (1859), Clifton Hill Station (1888), Ascot Vale Station (1860), Auburn Station (1882), Brunswick Station (1884), Caulfield Station (1879), Chelsea Station (1907), East Richmond Station (1860), Fairfield Station (1888), Heidelberg Station (1888) as well as many others. While the stations in the outer metropolitan areas were built/renovated in the past 70 years. Examples of these include: Heatherdale Station (1958), Hoppers Crossing Station (1970), Morradoo Station (1960), Mernda Station (2018), Oak Park (1956), Ruthven Station (1963), South Morang Station (2012), Weston’s Station (1985), Yarraman Station (1976), Patterson Station (1961), as well as others. Have a pleasant day! - from a Melbourne train lover and enthusiast :)
Work on Melbourne’s railway began in the 1850’s due to the gold-rush which occurred at that time. This gave Melbourne the financial means to construct a fairly expansive (for that time) rail network from the years of 1855-1910. This included the construction of many train lines or “branches” from the city, each of which have numerous train stations on them. Some of these train lines include: The Sunbury Line (opened 1859), The Werribee Line (1857), The Craigieburn Line (1872), The Williamstown Line (1858), The Frankston Line (1882), The Hurstbridge Line (1912), and The Sandringham Line (1887), as well as others. Some lines were opened or renovated in the past 70 years, but most were opened during or after the gold-rush of the 1850’s. :)
The train lines are named after the terminus station (last station on the line/branch). Most of the terminus stations built from the 1870’s - 1910’s are still the terminus stations in the present day. Some stations have been added/renovated into the various lines in the past 70 years, though most stations are were built in the 1870’s - 1910’s period.
The cost sounds astronomical. The 200km of new tracks and 68 new stations of the more complex grand Paris express is expected to cost between 35 and 40 billion euros only, compared to 90km of Melbourne for 75bn euros !
Between this project and Australia investing in nuclear subs, those two programs alone are a combined almost 500 billion! And you know they will balloon in price with them being such long term investments.
yes... and not sure why it is going to take 50 years to be completed... lately the B1M is losing in quality, it seems they drop videos without the necessary research... i mean the biggest questions everyone has are (i) why is it so expensive and (ii) why will it take so long to complete... and of course these are NOT explained... not really the DEFINITIVE channel for construction...
I was complaining that the 150km+ Grand Paris express was only going to be completed by 2030. I cant imagine having to know such a crucial piece of infrastructure would be completed by 2080!!! Id go mad.
Welcome to Australia its a 'utopia' for faffing about. Agencies spend tons of time planning out stuff that doesn't matter and will never happen and then doing tons of PR about how it'll change everything P.s. Utopia is a good aussie comedy that is set in a similar agency.
We don't have to know! Because there's almost no chance that they're actually going to finish it. We can't even get a railway into the airport, one of the most basic pieces of infrastructure imaginable in this city. They've started working on the east section of the loop but the north and west parts are very murky at the moment unfortunately 🫤
@@evials9123 In 2019, 37,000,000 people used Melbourne Airport. We've been trying to get an Airport rail link built since 1970 (iirc). Everyone wants it and it's just not getting built. While it's not exactly essential, I mean we've dealt without for ages, it's still pretty dang important. I mean if you come into Melbourne and don't know anyone here, you have to fork out AU$24 to take the SkyBus which only goes into the CBD. Even if it ever gets built, the road will still get used lots and is important. But having that rail link will make travelling in or out of Melbourne a LOT better and easier. So yeah, maybe it's not *crucial*, but it's defiantly imported and is pretty basic stuff. Sydney and Brisbane and I believe soon to be Perth all have them and Melbourne just overtook Sydney as the most populated city in Australia
Back then the government was the labour employer you didn’t work for a contractor, through a union, hired by a consultancy, contracted by the lowest bidding partnership firm in association with the state government. They ran the projects in house so middle management and red tape was much less impactful. Apart from construction unions the whole process is a joke now.
I live in Melbourne, travel on trains regularly. Lots of people use trains. Post pandemic probably more people as fuel is so expensive plus fares are capped at $10 full fare and concession $5 per day to travel metro and regional. Train travel is cheap. My line will be going into the new tunnel, looking forward to it operating.
@@frostedbutts4340 would love to see better rail connectivity out there though, there's only like 1 V/Line route that skims through Geelong. maybe one day they could bring back their trams as well
@@frostedbutts4340 $10 for full fare. Unfortunately, when Geelong is playing football in Melbourne or hosting a Melbourne based team, the trains are hopelessly overcrowded. Although the public transport to the Air Show this year was efficient, on time and relatively stress free. Unlike for those getting there by car.
@EarthaOdell Luxembourg in Europe is having completely free public transport everywhere in that state ... the size of Greater Melbourne ... Our $10 cap on PTV trains and busses will get you across an area the size of West Germany. Please consider. Somebody has to pay for it. (Fuel tax ?) Use it, while it is available.🤗
Trains running 10 min apart in Melbourne depends on the time of day and train stations. A large station like Clayton see's trains every 3 min in peak times and 5-7 min non peak times. Some stations like Yarraman are "skip " stations and are missed in peak times every 3rd train.
@@ALucas73Yeah there are around 400 bus routes which for the most part do run between stations on different lines, but our bus system isn't very good with not many dedicated bus lanes, unreliable, and while frequencies can be great in inner areas already spoilt for public tranport (ie. Within the tram network) there are poor frequencies in the outer areas that need buses the most.
Fearmongering about the economy to shill masterworks is not a good look. Especially when a realistic picture of the economic outlook is crucial to the prospects of these sorts of megaprojects. Otherwise, nice vid, as always
@@7950KaraAre you out of your mind? Nowhere in my comment did I say it was wrong to plan for the future, the only thing I'm saying is it really doesn't need to take that long to deliver. I don't want to be the 'if this was China...' guy but if this was China it'd be built in a fraction of the time. It's not complexity that causes the time frame to be so long, we know how to build train lines through all kind of places, so why exactly can't it be delivered sooner?
@@-Osiris-Democracy, the thing China doesn't have. Trying to keep the disruption to daily life low so as to not risk losing public support (and funding) for the project. That and ever-increasing population density and development makes doing things in the middle of all of it tricky.
Brisbane Australia has a similar problem of almost all train and bus routes only going north and south into the CBD. It if you need to go sideways through suburbs, good luck lol. We are getting another train tunnel but our main priority is highways and more north/south routes... Geography definitely plays a part here but its been an issue some have echoed for years. We are so car centric with no end in site.
The Bruce Highway is a joke every morning. Can't believe these idiots are patting themselves on the back for adding an extra lane which runs 5kms and the bottlenecks again.
I used to live in Melbourne, the train system is lacking, to put it politely for sure. Now I live in Tokyo and without a doubt the train system here, just in Tokyo alone is incredible. It's possible to walk in any direction and stumble upon a subway station or train station.... there is no chance of getting lost ❗👍 Cheers to all of you from my favorite TH-cam channel 🤟✨
I live in Melbourne now working on infrastructure projects . I had the pleasure of visiting Tokyo a few years back and it was amazing trains go everywhere you are very lucky hopefully it’s like that here one day 😊
@@xr6lad trams aren't slow if you give them dedicated right-of-way. Melbourne's trams often reach speeds of 50 and 60 km/h, maybe even more in some cases
@Djamonja Costs for transit projects are not nearly as high in Spain and France as they are in England and Australia for instance. The whole procurement and decision making process is rotten in some countries.
This is the first time i've been really disappointed by a B1M video. As an infrastructure and skyscraper junkie, i felt this video was thrown together quickly , placed more importance and information on the built in ads, and gave short shift to the builders and designers of what is an amazing project in a city that is growing and developing at an astounding pace. I hope that when the B1M is in Australia in the next couple of months to help with the very worthwhile mental health issues facing workers in the construction industry, they can take a few moments to pause and look back at this video, and then raise their game to the level that we have come to appreciate love and respect. In all honesty , it was depressing to see such little effort shown.
Nice coverage B1M! We were also amazed with the prospects of this project and made an in-depth video about it! PS. support for mental health in construction initiative! It is important!
as a melbournian i really want this project to go ahead and think its a vital link for the city but project management could be better making construction cheaper and quicker without cutting down on scope
@@ACDZ123please dont say that ever again. Maybe Sydney can and possibly Brisbane but Perth is levels below 💀 maybe compare Perth to Adelaide or Canberra instead ? 🤷♀️
Hi B1M! You should do a video talking about the Hong Kong Redevelopment of the old Kai Tak airport, which is now being transformed into a large sports park and a large stadium. They are also building a lot of new housing in that area. Thank you for your videos as always!
Ahh, Kai Tak, I have fond memories of gripping the armrests of my chair really tightly during landings and hoping we weren't about to overshoot the runway and drown to death.
Speaking about metro networks, strange you haven't done an episode on the Moscow Metro. The newest expansion is the completion of the Big Circle Line, a 70-kilometre loop that links 31 stations and opened in March 2023. More people use it than in London, it is aesthetically striking and unique.
I am an Australian who lives in Melbourne with my Austrian partner. She absolutely cannot get over how bad our public transport is, with no interconnectedness between train lines. In Vienna, she could get around easily on the metro. In Melbourne, you need a car.
As someone from Vienna who went to Melbourne once I can unfortunately only agree with you. I loved everything about Melbourne (one of the few cities that I visited I could easily imagine myself living on a permanent basis) but the public transportation system really wasn’t great, to build one subway line in 60 years is beyond ridiculous, it should take 20 years max
As Sime pointed out, Melbourne is absolutely huge in area and this is the cause of many of our problems. Melb is just under 10,000 km2, Vienna is just over 400! For comparison Greater London is about 1,500.
I am really proud to see that London is considered for Metro line 2:28 as one of the most efficient in the world together with Tokyo, SIngapore & Mosco! Indeed in London you can reach point A to B so easily in the cities major location with underground transport that many youngster now opting to bike or just metro to work instead of getting their Car License. Of course as you go out of the city and to other areas in England you do need a Car instead!
Berlins S-Bahn is also very impressive and efficient. It's tram and U-Bahn networks are also very underrated ( Even with half the tram network being gone ) And the main station is absolutly huge! Defenatly worth a visit.
I lived in Melbourne for a decade; I don’t know when or how that data was taken but there is no chance only 3% take the train to work. At each office almost half of everyone I worked with took the public transport and half of those were train. Edit: just read the top comment and I’m relieved. I knew it.
Great to know I’ll be 99 by the time I get to ride the full loop from cheltenham to werribee. Whilst this is great, it fails to deliver on the most lacking area of PT investment, which is the western suburbs. Not only do we need the loop that brings people around from werribee to the north, but the suburban rail density needs to improve across all the western suburbs area. If you look at the map shown at the start of the video, you’ll see how biased the network is to the east. This is the problem now and needs to be fixed to make that side of the middle and outer ring viable for growth.
@@74_pelicans that’s not practical if the goal is to grow out the population over time. The eastern side is fairly dense already and there is a natural growth corridor between melbourne and geelong to be exploited but lacks the PT infrastructure to make it a viable alternative for people that need to commute from the west. I remember when I was occasionally commuting from point cook and the west gate fwy was a parking lot by 6:30am. Rail extensions, increased rail capacity and better interlinked bus services would alleviate a lot of that congestion. Which is only going to grow as more development happens over that side.
It makes sense for the east part to be completed first. I understand the population growth forecast for the west and how densely populated it will be, but the eat is already at that level and only going to continue to be more densely populated.
if you read the fine print in the plans you won't be able to make a full trip on the loop. you will have to change trains 3 or 4 times to make a complete journey from cheltenham to werribee
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Just ''buy the dip'' man. In the long term it will payoff. High interest rates usually mean lower stock prices, however investors should be cautious of the bull run, its best you connect with a well-qualified adviser to meet your growth goals and avoid blunder
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In Brisbane, the cost of a train ticket from the outer suburbs and back is often more than the cost of parking. Plus, given they come so far apart with so few interchanges makes catching a train the wrong choice for my family and many others. It’s neither cheaper nor more convenient than just driving.
inner monologue: omgomg my city is featured yay :D logical mind: i really do hope this project survives long-term and is progressed over the next few decades 😄
It’s worth noting SRL will connect Australia’s largest university by student numbers (plus about 5 other smaller universities) to the wider network. Students generally equal ridership. Plus the better connections to fast growing towns and cities on Melbournes periphery.
For your information, the map you showed of the Oslo metro (t-bane) in the intro is outdated by about 15 years. I can't remember having seen this map since around 2006/2007, so the fact that you found it is impressive on it's own, but I think it would be nice if you updated your map by a decade or two. That being said, not much has changed since then and the next notable change will come in a few years with the addition of the Fornebu-line.
This project is still not going to solve the issues facing rail users in the west of the city. It is far too little far too late. We need this, but not in that time frame and missing new stations in the west. I'll be dead by the time this competes - I have long given up hope of an improved rail system in Melbourne. Still, interesting video.
True. Plus Tokyo has a history of many different railway operators, both public and private, building vast independent networks, and sometimes cooperating. So that one company may run a metro line in one place with 2 different railway companies lines meeting it on each end, and all 3 companies agreeing to operate some of their trains as expresses through the metro line's tunnel.
as an aussie and sydney-sider, i pretty much use the trains + bus lines to get anywhere that doesn't have parking. if there is parking, i'll usually opt to drive because its still cheaper when considering the cost of petrol.
You kinda left out the fact that its in so much heat right now that parts of it are being postponed indefinitely. Also we're beating sydney by a technicality, because we included some suburbs, we havent just gained an extra million people in the last 9 months
Sydney used to beat Melbourne's population on a technicality by including the Central Coast (Gosford etc). If Melbourne followed the same logic, we'd include Geelong.
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So Melbourne is spending 124B AUD = 74B Euros on a single new line, a tunnel and some new stations. I’m from Melbourne and now live in Paris, where for 41B Euros, 200km of new underground lines, 68 new stations and a high speed airport link to CDG are all being built. Oh and built in a small fraction of the time… Something very inefficient somewhere in Australia.
Dont forget. That budget includes delivery of Snowy Hydro II (the ‘U boat’ project), as a favour to ‘Albo’ and the cost of Mr Daniel (chalk & boack board track & trace) Andrew’s superannuation bill.
Not mentioned in video: the V/line overhaul that's being planned as well as the Cossing removals & rebuilding of many MANY stations on the Melbourne suburb trainlines. Also not mentioned it costs WAY more here than other Western countries so of course it's going to be expensive. There's a ton getting done and overhauled because no state government was bothered to invest in public transit until now. It should have been done 30 years ago and not left to get into the state it was in because private companies wanted big arse ugly roads, including the Federal government who wanted a unnecessary freeway built we didn't need because they didn't want to help upgrade our public transport when approached.
@@meikahidenori Huh? “..it costs way more here than other Western countries so of course it’s going to be expensive.” What costs way more? That just confirms poorer cost efficiency, which was the point.
For those abroad, I live amongst this construction project. Last year in Five Dock, Sydney a new Metro station was commenced. There was a little office there providing happy cheery information on completion. Yeah, 8 years to construction a train station. A kid in public school will grow up, go through high school, leave and go off to university and have that mostly done in the time this will take to complete and it's happening right across the city.
@@74_pelicans Not just the state government everyone wants it to be built -The state government wants it -The opposition wants it -Transport advocates wants it -Most voters want it -Contary to popular belief the airport wants it too although they want it to be underground The federal government might want it as well but we gotta see whether they choose to fund it once the review is over
@@Westcoasteagles2018 no it doesnt only the federal government withdrew funding and they will put it back in again if the project is approved in the 90 day review the state still has commited their fair share of funding to the project
@@RealNotOrrio Oh, is there an election coming up ? We might even see the "Silver Emu" High Speed train flying again. Like those pigs that can do it ...
The biggest flaw and critique of the SRL is definitely the weird decission to make it all underground. Suburban Melbourne is very well... suburban. Most of whats being tunneled under is single family homes, not dense cityscape. Financially and in terms of potential ridership, spending that much on bored rail tunnels simply makes little to no sense compared to building at grade, or on elevated viaducts over the city's arterial roads. Even if the city decided to rezone and allow much higher development along all of the SRL's route, it would've still been easier, faster, and more affordable to build above ground before said high densities started appearing.
Strongly disagreed… I’ve worked for both LXRP and the new metro tunnel. Difficulties associated with building sky rail and permanent grades through suburban and inner suburban areas far outweigh any potential financial savings. Metro would have been tied up in court for years. There aren’t quite as many stakeholders to consider when you’re digging meters underground.
Considering how innefficient this project is, it's going to need to be future proofed because by the time its done, those suburban areas will be full of high density skyscrapers
I've lived in Melbourne my whole life, a lot of the early transport connections are made by bus routs to connect train lines adjacently instead of needing to go into the cbd. We have 4 bus lines connecting most of the train lines called smart buses and they run as frequently as trains
Yes, and the buses are mostly incredibly slow, cumbersome and contribute to onroad traffic congestion. Try planning a simple journey using trains and buses and you're looking at 1.5-2 hours. Melbourne's train system is severely lacking; a significant reason why people still use cars.
Thanks for featuring Australia's metro tunnel projects - Melbourne, Sydney & Brisbane (all tunneling under major bodies of water too). Was very happily surprised to hear you're up to speed with and also showcasing Melbourne's Suburban Rail Loop project. Both are absolute game-changers for how we'll move around Melbourne in the future. And recently flagged for planning delays (again)....the direct rail link to Tullamarine Internatinal Airport. Level Crossing Removal Projects, Melbourne: yourself and your viewers probably know this....other transformational works have also been taking place since approx 2010: * th-cam.com/video/ool_yvzL2As/w-d-xo.html * th-cam.com/play/PLbH9kG-O9LH4dtLMjybXlWmufHhJFBrse.html * th-cam.com/play/PLbH9kG-O9LH51YZkyheBNI6oLCfLrVKhi.html ----- MEDIA COVERAGE | 2023 Melbourne’s $12bn Metro Tunnel to open in September 2024, builder lets slip The head of construction giant John Holland reveals the new, early completion date at a Victorian Chamber of Commerce and Industry event * www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/10/melbourne-metro-tunnel-opening-date-september-2024 Testing delays could push Metro Tunnel opening into late 2025 The Metro Tunnel Project is prepared for up to 12 months of delays during a risky phase of testing and trial operations, which could push the opening of Melbourne’s new underground train line to late 2025. The state government has previously said the $12.6 billion cross-city rail line between Kensington and South Yarra would open some time in 2025 - a year earlier than first scheduled. * www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/testing-delays-could-push-metro-tunnel-opening-into-late-2025-20231012-p5ebtr.html
For reference on how bad Australian public transport is, for me to get to work it would be a 3 hour train journey with a 20 minute bus ride on top of that. Whereas its only a 45 minute drive.
I just moved to Melbourne from NYC and the statements about slow public transport are so accurate!!! The trams share the road with cars and get bogged down with traffic, they’re slow, small & mostly non-accessible. We constantly have to route through the Cbd and farcically don’t have credit card payment so no one ever pays. Like all cities in Australia, a car is an essential means of transport, hurting the walkability and enjoyment of the city
Normally I try not to date my videos by referencing something which indicates the time of the video being made. the fact that you included Margo as Barbie Reference is actually a good thing because it told me how current the video is it may not age well but I still appreciate it.
B!M I live in Perth, Australia. We are also undergoing major changes. In 1 month my train line closes for major upgrades. There are loops going in etc. Edit, I grew up in Melbourne and definitely miss trams.
@@thies7831 As a former Perth resident - and grateful escapee - I can vouch for Perth being the ugliest, stupidest, most backward urban sprawl in Australia.
Sydney's massive Metro system will be completed much sooner. Phase 1 is already up and running. Phase 2 will open early next year which includes a huge tunnel under Sydney Harbour. Phase 3 will probably be completed late next year and the final link is under construction around the new international airport.
I haven't lived in Melbourne for 7 years now... And yet it jas immediately brought me right back to my frustration with the trains. They should have had the foresight to do a bunch of this a long long long time ago. A major city without anything other then a bus to the airport? Ridiculous!
@@thedownunderverse Just about everything except the weather. No shortage of awesome places to train pretty much any sport, sick street art, mad restaurants everywhere, and the best live entertainment scene in the country. You'd have to only give a fuck about beaches to think Melbourne sucks lol.
@@mikesnow. i’m born and bred here dude, and now think it sucks soooo bad. Expensive, congested, polluted, crowded, cold/wet. Oh but u can get a $30 falafel in brunswick then go see a poetry slam at the night cat and see the homeless…. I mean street art…. In the windswept, graffiti’d laneways. Oh and “da coffee” 🙄
@@thedownunderverse That would be one way to spend a night. I don't drink coffee so no comment there. Sounds like you need to relocate if you're actively hating the place online.
@@mikesnow. would love to but have a good job here. that’s a blessing of course and i’m grateful, but the city itself has been destroyed so i’m investing elsewhere.
@@fluoroantimonictippedcruis1537 funny you mention that. Our governments are excellent at throwing money away. Take Victoria, paying a 350million fine for now not hosting the commonwealth games. Or how about the federal gov for wasting 450million on a referendum that was always going to fail. Etc etc etc So where did this money grow from eh?
People have been researching this and trying to make it happen for nearly 50 years. Ultimately, between the geographic challenges and the economic arguments, it just doesn't stack up. There's a lot of mountains in eastern Australia, and the distance from Melbourne to Brisbane is simply immense. Australia just doesn't have the population to make it financially viable either; China, Japan and Western Europe all have huge, massively concentrated populations in comparison, so their HSR systems are serving >100M people each, whereas a Mel-Syd-Bris train would serve ~15M. I'm not an economist or an engineer, so maybe there are flaws in these arguments I'm not aware of and it is viable after all, heck that would be awesome! But so far every feasibility study has indicated otherwise 😢 The government has just dedicated a couple hundred billion dollars to having another crack at it though, so maybe our train dreams will come true one day... ETA: This idea has even served as the plot of an episode of an amazing Aussie comedy show, Utopia, a satire about people working for a government infrastructure department. The whole show is outstanding, both hilarious and spookily accurate (according to sources who actually work for similar government organisations!), but the "Very Fast Train" episode is a particularly good one 😄
@@margottago ph I totally understand what you're saying. A lot of big infrastructure that would be great is held back by the lack of population. However not only trains for people, but freight as well, and also a road network. There is 53,000 flights per year between Melbourne and Sydney apparently with 700,000 seats per month. And will only get busier. In a world where they want to cut pollution, doesnt it make sense to go down that route. The carbon saving, pollution, accidents, etc etc. Just have to plan for the future. Gov spends billions in brisbane and we finally are getting some decent hwy upgrades. I mean we still have single lane hwys up here in qld and they wonder why there's so many deaths on the roads. But all good.
@@ALLOFTHEBOOST I agree Sydney to Melbourne but Sydney to Brisbane is probably never going to hapen. They're both 1100kms apart roughly and Brisbane is only 2-3 million people. Sydney to Melbourne is definitely worthwhile due to air traffic and potential rural use but just got to get it rolling.
B1M used to provide in depth analysis of construction projects before. Now, it's just puts out a superficial video with too many ads + "shoutout to our sponsor".
Apart from the cost, the main cause of concern is that the new circle line closely follows a series of lines built over a century ago, the Outer Circle, Inner Circle and Rosstown lines. They were joined and formed a route through suburbs close to the proposed route of the new line. But they were a catastrophic failure and the Alamein line is the only remainder still in operation. But almost the entire route is preserved as strips of parkland. It would cost 15% as much to rebuild these lines by "cut and cover" as it would to build the extravagant proposed line only a little further out. Personally I think we should resurrect these lines and put them a few metres underground rather than waste an eyewatering amount on building a new but, similar line.
Yeah, connecting the Alamein, Glen Waverley & Dandenong lines with rail (even light rail) is one of the most glaringly obvious things the state government could do. Cut and cover would destroy a lot parkland and be extremely unpopular with the locals, though.
@@zoomosis "Cut and cover" means you dig a trench, lay a giant pipe inside for the trains to run through and then doze a few metres of dirt over the top. Vastly cheaper than a bored tunnel and after its built, the land is restored and no one can tell there is a train line beneath it. I live 100 metres from a park that runs along the route of the former Inner Circle Railway and having a train beneath it wouldn't bother me.
Trams could be run along the old outer circle route, linking the Dandenong rail, Chadstone Shopping Centre, Glen Waverly rail line, Alamein rail line converted to tram, to Camberwell train station. Could be extended to East Kew and on to Fairfield.
A few things - the outer circle line you are referring to opened and closed in the 1890s. It was intended to carry Gippsland traffic into the outer suburbs but never served this purpose, and a depression in the early 1890s meant that developments around it ceased which rendered the line useless. Even after they reopened part of it, it remains one of the least used lines on the network. Were they to reopen the full line, there would be an issue of needing to figure out topographic constraints, property and land acquisition, and crossings for both the Eastern and Monash freeways (as well as several roads). It also wouldn't be servicing / connecting any big population centres to major developed areas (thinking of Monash uni, etc). Inner Circle is similar in the sense that reopening would not connect any major lines, and it would not assist anyone that lives more than 3km north of the city. It would create a few level crossings on very busy roads unless they put it below grade (very expensive, lots of land acquisition) or putting it above grade. So basically, the SRL will do a better job than both of these lines in every regard, and will only be expensive due to the immense engineering scale behind it. You can't just go a few metres below ground because of services, property acquisition, and needing enough clearance for trains and accessible stations. "Cut and cover" is a tremendously destructive method of building tunnels, so TBMs for deeper tunnels are always preferred in built up areas. Given the way the city is developing, it will not be at risk of low patronage as the others were, and it will promote development outside of the CBD. Hope it helps clear a few things up
Melbourne has grown. Get some old Melway Street Directories and compare how the demographic centre (it is marked in them) has constantly shifted further outwards, even with lots of high-rise concoctions being squeezed into the traditional areas, where those track remnants are lying dormant.
"We've been building metros wrong" is a huge overstatement. More correct would be "car-focused cities with no tradition of mixed-used development have bad metros".
If this is one of the most expensive projects, I highly doubt it will get completed. Construction will last for more than 50 years, I believe as time passes costs will go through the roof
Construction will be done in 20-30 years and is gonna cost about 50 billion. Sydney has a metro project of similar size, cost, and construction time. The 2084 number in the video is just wrong. The third section is actually a separate line that'll be finished first in the early 2030s, and the final section is just electrification of an already existing line. It's fine.
Melbourne's population is expected to be almost double by 2060. I'm not sure how realistic that is, but the costs involved should eventually be offset by the increased revenue from a larger population. If population projections are accurate the cost of not building it will likely outweigh the construction cost in terms of lost productivity due to congestion. Though I'm not convinced starting the project in the south-east is wise, given that a large part of the population increase is in the western suburbs. There's also a risk that the SRL eats up all the money needed for other transport projects, like rail electrification to Melton, rail extensions to Clyde, etc.
@@thedownunderverse The gateway to the Blue Dandenongs (and overcrowded, overrated 1000 steps in UFTG) ... Connection to Puffing Billy ... and who can forget the adventure of taking the 688 from UFTG to Croydon or v.v. via Mt. Dandenong ? Only the Himalayas are more exciting ...
It staggers me how London and New York built huge subway networks over a century ago covering hundreds of miles while today building a 20 mile long tunnel can take 30 years minimum to complete...
It doesn't, normally. It only does in the Western English speaking world with outrageously inflated costs. Paris is currently building 200 kilometers of new metro lines in much more complicated soil and densely populated areas for half the cost of SRL while delivering it in stages between now and 2030. The problem isn't technical / technological, the problem is in the way these projects are done in Australia, Canada, UK and USA... The same projects in other developed countries are done faster and much cheaper.
It doesn't take that long elsewhere. Paris is currently doubling its métro mileage (125 miles/200km are being built). Construction started in 2018 and should be completed in stages from 2024 to 2035. Also China has been building subway networks very quickly in the past 20 years in several cities.
Thank goodness for trip planning apps and IC cards though! From what I've read about navigating the system of mixed public and private operators before the advent of apps and IC cards, it used to be far less appealing than the much smoother experience now.
Several major Australian cities have tried to start similar infrastructure upgrade projects but they either got cancelled or were stalled due to funding issues.
I’ve worked underground in Sydney for 2 years on the west connex and north connex trust me any machine you see down there is scrapped after the project . I followed work to Melbourne now but wouldn’t work underground for a million dollars a year it is grim .
It won't. The first two sections (the actual metro) will be finished by the early-late 2040s. The third section is a separate line that'll be finished in the early 2030s, and the last is the electrification of an already existing line.
If Melbourne's population keeps ramping up as predicted the project might actually be finished much sooner, due to increased funding and much higher demand. Interesting to note the Melbourne Metro is expected to open ahead of schedule.
When the conservative Liberals get back in power in Victoria they will cancel all public transport initiatives like they did last time. The Metro city loop by pass tunnel would be up a running years ago if they hadn't interfered and tried to change the project to suit their developer backers.
You see, years ago, in 1983, my wife met the Chief Town Planner of Perth, flying to Frankfurt, Germany. In Economy Class. These days public servants are studying important projects all over this planet for several times, staying in 5 star accommodation, moving about in at least Business Class, wining and dining with other dreamers, before writing lengthy reports about all the risks involved in these Mega structures. They are not out of reach, although the costs involved and already incurred in the planning stage, have to be well considered for a positive outcome.
In the 1960s, Sydney was going to connect the M4 freeway from Strathfield to the city. After 50 years of delays, they finally started the project and extended it by about 10km - to Ashfield - mostly underground. The next 15km might take another 100 years. In any case, the new metro will service a lot of areas, but it still won't reach the majority of inner suburbs.
No it hasn't just yet. That's a misleading statement. On current projections, Melbourne's population is expected to overtake Sydney's within the next decade, but it depends on how it's measured. One thing that is missing in this comparison is that Sydney is now a mega-city of over 6 million including Newcastle, the Central Coast and Wollongong. In addition to the existing extensive suburban rail network and the new metro lines now coming on stream, all regions are connected by electrified Intercity commuter rail and have been for many years.
In Victorian this project has been brought to three elections, all with the Labor Government being returned to power after continuous commitment to the projects completion. The opposition has taken scrapping the project to three elections and lost. This indicates that Victorians want the project to be seen out. Naturally with a project of this scale, the scope has slightly changed with the paused to the Airport Rail Link section. Hopefully the State Government can see the benefit in bringing this forward in the construction pipeline in the coming years.
Australia : Suburban Rail Loop Malaysia : Klang Valley Mass Rapid Transit South Korea : Great Train Express United Kingdom : HS2 & Northern Powerhouse Railway Thailand : High Speed Railway network (5 line) US : California & Texas HSR India : RRTS
of course we were designing wrong - any city that doesn't include east to west transit options as well as north to south is ignorant and short-sighted by any stretch
Genuine question, is there ever any point starting a project that is going to take 50 years to finish? The world is so radically different now than it was 1975. It's like starting a billion dollar project in 1975 to increase the speed of traditional mail deliveries, and then the internet coming along in the meantime. I'd be staggered if we were still going to work on the metro at the end of this century.
In this case, sort of... Our train lines have been in use since WW1 with some expansion. The scope of the project probably needs adjustment but it will be used if built properly.
I don't think many people know that the SRL is effectively shelved for now. The airport link was officially shelved a few weeks ago and it was one of the earliest and most visible sections of the SRL. The SRL is still officially in "planning" but at the moment it's looking like they'll complete the small amount of works already in progress and then it won't proceed due to lack of funding.
I hope they don't cancel, because they shouldn't. The economic impact and housing development created by these projects if completed would make albeit inflated costs, still worth it.
@@zsaleeba SRL work is ongoing as its state funded. A pause was placed only on projects with commonwealth funding for a review of all national infrastructure projects.
For such a short loop it's astounding it's forecast to take so much time to complete. Even the proposals for high speed rail between Sydney and Melbourne take less time than this
If you live in Burswood and work in Caulfield you’d take the light rail and the tram south so I think that’s a bit misleading saying you’d travel into town.
Skip the waitlist and invest in blue-chip art for the very first time by signing up for Masterworks - www.masterworks.art/theb1m/
rather hawkish upon advancing achy brains..eh
yeah nah
Disappointing from the B1M
terrible but not surprising
The Plain Bagel has a video on Masterworks that is required viewing for anyone even thinking of "investing" in art.
The census data that only 3% of people used the train is a bit misleading, it was taken in the middle of a lockdown where 1/3 people were working from home (5.5% on PT total). 2016 is a bit more accurate with 2/3 people driving, while the train was around 8% (16% PT in total). Either way the point still stands that train usage is lacking
That's journalism mate, pick "facts" to suit your argument.
Even then census data is just an example for a given day they decide to do the survey. And trusts people to answer honestly.
Even then, when you have a large flat, spread out city, car journeys will almost all be quicker and easier.
@@74_pelicansCovid is definitely an outlier considering Melbourne was under lockdown for almost the entire year and people weren’t even allowed to go more than 5kms from their homes
Fair point but 8% is still awful
@@74_pelicans Maybe in American cities with piss poor public transit. Any time I initially save with a car is quickly eaten up by the time it takes searching for a parking spot.
Meanwhile in 2016 Sydney was at 27% PT usage
Well I just finished nightshift on my 54th birthday rigging a 100tonne pin-jib crane on this very project, got home and poured myself a glass of wine to greet the rising sun on this glorious spring morning and have to say was utterly delighted to see it on the B1M. I’m even in the background in one of the shots! 😂 because of my roster I was privileged enough to actually work two shifts on my birthday. 😳huzzah and happy birthday to me lol
Happy birthday man.
Hope the rest of your Birthday goes much better.Cheers !
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Happy Birthday to you! Happy Birthday to you!
Happy birthday mate, thanks for your hard work
Living in Singapore for last 15-years I can confess the variety of MRT lines w options to chart your own path to the destination are an absolute LIFESAVER. Oh man, we use it everyday and no need for a car at all.
That's a good thing, as it costs around $100,000 to get a licence for a car in Singapore...
No need for a car at all and no need for personal space too! 😂
@@wsxgfhccr fewer cars means more public space that used to be parking lots and streets.
@@Joesolo13 says someone who's never had to squeeze into an MRT/subway like a pack of sardines during peak hour traffic
I pity u having to ride mAss transit everywhere. What a horrible existence.
As a Melburnian, I'm a bit sad the completion date for the entire suburban loop has been pushed out so far. Originally the entire thing was due to be finished around 2050 or so, but for a whole bunch of reasons that's slipped way back. I was looking forward to rising it in my 80s, but now it looks lke it won't be done in my lifetime (unless medical science takes a MASSIVE leap forward in the next few decades).
Holding out hope for an early completion. Metro Tunnel is at least a year ahead of schedule with some suggestions it may be done by Q4 2024. As long as pre work is done right, could lead to a good outcome.
I always wonder what takes so long. I mean, those things arent dig by hundreds of men with shovels. We have all those modern machines, just in time logistic, computers to plan and prepare everything. And still it seems things need more time then ever in history to get done.
The Chinese would have the whole thing finished by 2030, let alone 2080, they built around 600 miles of high-speed rail in 20 years, it took us Brits the past 10 years just to build 20 miles. This is the reason why I wish we in the west would stop antagonising the Chinese, can you imagine what Chinese war production would be like? They would be farting out eight destroyers a month to our one, their three largest shipyards have more shipbuilding capacity _each_ than all US shipyards combined, and they have 1.5 billion potential workers. Wars are won by the side that can replace losses the fastest, in WW2 the allies had the US, in WW3 the other guys will have China....
@@krashdhave you bn to China?
@@jayebuss5562 in 2080 china already have maglev HSR 1000km/h
I lived in Chengdu, China for 12 years. The speed at which the metro was built was astounding. 4 lines were completed in less than a decade...
Oh wow I was in Chengdu a month ago
There a single line when I first visted Chengdu. Just one line.
@@ramdas363 now there's 17 i believe.
UK: our infrastructure projects are expensive and take a long time to complete
Australia: hold my beer, mate!
America as well 😂 our stuff is astronomical
Oi, care ta' hold me VB stubby for a bit, me pommy bloke?
At least the UK has enough work going on around it they have the skilled worked, they don't need to pay people twice as much to come and work here.
Australia is worse because they have so much land lmao
@@SD-iv4sz except where you want to build.
The attitude here in Melbourne is that the SRL connection to the airport has a high chance of getting scrapped. But we also know that Doncaster is desperately in need of transit, and Clayton/Monash is incredibly under-serviced for how important of a location it is.
Idk, I feel like the whole project is in danger of getting scrapped, especially with all this political turmoil. If anything, the airport link might be the only part that makes it, just from embarrassments from the government having to cancel the airport rail for the 20th time.
the project goes to the airport in both ways so even if srl airport gets scrapped srl north can still connect with the airport
Yep, the only way to Doncaster with public transport is Buses and it is well known to not to be the best, especially during off peak (during morning and evening rush, it is fairly frequent but not reliable thou) having a train does help long term a lot
Monash should have got something 30 years ago.
Seriously? The airport connection is probably what they should have done first.
I still can’t believe Melbourne doesn’t have a train line connected to the airport.
Neither can we and we live here.
2010-2017 ‘Most livable city in the world’ 😂. HOW!!!!! I just moved here public transport is appallingly lacking. There’s the red airport bus I guess..!!
The Airport bus is solid enough it's only really noticeable from the western suburbs
It’s been on the table many times but politicians have continually failed us again and again by scrapping it every single time.
even perth has one, even if the station requires an overpass to get to the terminals
@TheB1M A minor correction. Most of Melbourne's rail network was built in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Not post-war as stated in the video.
Nonsense, Australia was still a prison in the late 1800's, if there were tunnels they were dug with spoons and used for smuggling contraband into the continent from the outside.
Even a Canadian that has never been to Australia knows your statement is wrong. All I had to do was Google "Melbourne's rail network" to find out there were upgrades in the 1950s and 1970s, plus a few other closures/extensions/upgrades so your last sentence is TOTALLY incorrect. Maybe you should learn to check your facts before criticizing someone who did actually do some research.
@@shaunp9592 Hi! Both of you are actually correct. A lot of Melbourne’s inner-metropolitan stations were built in the mid-late 1800’s and early 1900’s. Some of these include: Flinders Street Station (1854), Richmond Station (1859), Clifton Hill Station (1888), Ascot Vale Station (1860), Auburn Station (1882), Brunswick Station (1884), Caulfield Station (1879), Chelsea Station (1907), East Richmond Station (1860), Fairfield Station (1888), Heidelberg Station (1888) as well as many others. While the stations in the outer metropolitan areas were built/renovated in the past 70 years. Examples of these include: Heatherdale Station (1958), Hoppers Crossing Station (1970), Morradoo Station (1960), Mernda Station (2018), Oak Park (1956), Ruthven Station (1963), South Morang Station (2012), Weston’s Station (1985), Yarraman Station (1976), Patterson Station (1961), as well as others. Have a pleasant day!
- from a Melbourne train lover and enthusiast :)
Work on Melbourne’s railway began in the 1850’s due to the gold-rush which occurred at that time. This gave Melbourne the financial means to construct a fairly expansive (for that time) rail network from the years of 1855-1910. This included the construction of many train lines or “branches” from the city, each of which have numerous train stations on them. Some of these train lines include: The Sunbury Line (opened 1859), The Werribee Line (1857), The Craigieburn Line (1872), The Williamstown Line (1858), The Frankston Line (1882), The Hurstbridge Line (1912), and The Sandringham Line (1887), as well as others. Some lines were opened or renovated in the past 70 years, but most were opened during or after the gold-rush of the 1850’s. :)
The train lines are named after the terminus station (last station on the line/branch). Most of the terminus stations built from the 1870’s - 1910’s are still the terminus stations in the present day. Some stations have been added/renovated into the various lines in the past 70 years, though most stations are were built in the 1870’s - 1910’s period.
The cost sounds astronomical. The 200km of new tracks and 68 new stations of the more complex grand Paris express is expected to cost between 35 and 40 billion euros only, compared to 90km of Melbourne for 75bn euros !
That's Australia, everything is overpriced there.
Between this project and Australia investing in nuclear subs, those two programs alone are a combined almost 500 billion! And you know they will balloon in price with them being such long term investments.
yes... and not sure why it is going to take 50 years to be completed... lately the B1M is losing in quality, it seems they drop videos without the necessary research... i mean the biggest questions everyone has are (i) why is it so expensive and (ii) why will it take so long to complete... and of course these are NOT explained... not really the DEFINITIVE channel for construction...
@@eat_ze_bugsit isn’t. A large cost of that is buying land.
@@chemicalfrankie1030see above. Land purchases is a significant cost.
I was complaining that the 150km+ Grand Paris express was only going to be completed by 2030.
I cant imagine having to know such a crucial piece of infrastructure would be completed by 2080!!! Id go mad.
Welcome to Australia its a 'utopia' for faffing about. Agencies spend tons of time planning out stuff that doesn't matter and will never happen and then doing tons of PR about how it'll change everything
P.s. Utopia is a good aussie comedy that is set in a similar agency.
Embarrassing, isn't it?
Meanwhile, China will get it done in 5-10 years max.
We don't have to know! Because there's almost no chance that they're actually going to finish it. We can't even get a railway into the airport, one of the most basic pieces of infrastructure imaginable in this city. They've started working on the east section of the loop but the north and west parts are very murky at the moment unfortunately 🫤
This is hardly what I'd consider crucial
@@evials9123 In 2019, 37,000,000 people used Melbourne Airport. We've been trying to get an Airport rail link built since 1970 (iirc). Everyone wants it and it's just not getting built. While it's not exactly essential, I mean we've dealt without for ages, it's still pretty dang important. I mean if you come into Melbourne and don't know anyone here, you have to fork out AU$24 to take the SkyBus which only goes into the CBD. Even if it ever gets built, the road will still get used lots and is important. But having that rail link will make travelling in or out of Melbourne a LOT better and easier. So yeah, maybe it's not *crucial*, but it's defiantly imported and is pretty basic stuff. Sydney and Brisbane and I believe soon to be Perth all have them and Melbourne just overtook Sydney as the most populated city in Australia
Old days, 30 miles of system in three years. Present day, 3 miles in 30 years 😂😂😂
Back then they weren’t as deep and also weren’t having to contend with a massive city already built around it
Back then labor was cheap and casualities were allowed
@@asterixdx not true, many cities were already built up like NYC, Boston , Moscow
@@leonpaelinck cheaper, but they also did have all the high tech equipment they have today. It should be much much easier
Back then the government was the labour employer you didn’t work for a contractor, through a union, hired by a consultancy, contracted by the lowest bidding partnership firm in association with the state government. They ran the projects in house so middle management and red tape was much less impactful. Apart from construction unions the whole process is a joke now.
I live in Melbourne, travel on trains regularly. Lots of people use trains. Post pandemic probably more people as fuel is so expensive plus fares are capped at $10 full fare and concession $5 per day to travel metro and regional. Train travel is cheap. My line will be going into the new tunnel, looking forward to it operating.
$5 ticket all the way to Geelong is a freaking bargain lol
@@frostedbutts4340 would love to see better rail connectivity out there though, there's only like 1 V/Line route that skims through Geelong. maybe one day they could bring back their trams as well
@@frostedbutts4340 $10 for full fare. Unfortunately, when Geelong is playing football in Melbourne or hosting a Melbourne based team, the trains are hopelessly overcrowded. Although the public transport to the Air Show this year was efficient, on time and relatively stress free. Unlike for those getting there by car.
@EarthaOdell Luxembourg in Europe is having completely free public transport everywhere in that state ... the size of Greater Melbourne ... Our $10 cap on PTV trains and busses will get you across an area the size of West Germany. Please consider. Somebody has to pay for it. (Fuel tax ?) Use it, while it is available.🤗
honestly, that's only if you're still alive by then
Trains running 10 min apart in Melbourne depends on the time of day and train stations. A large station like Clayton see's trains every 3 min in peak times and 5-7 min non peak times. Some stations like Yarraman are "skip " stations and are missed in peak times every 3rd train.
Do you have buses too? Seems to be ignored by the video. Surely buses going across the lines would be the cheaper option.
@@ALucas73Yeah there are around 400 bus routes which for the most part do run between stations on different lines, but our bus system isn't very good with not many dedicated bus lanes, unreliable, and while frequencies can be great in inner areas already spoilt for public tranport (ie. Within the tram network) there are poor frequencies in the outer areas that need buses the most.
@@JesusManera "Bus system isnt very good" is underselling it. It is absolutely dreadfull
Fearmongering about the economy to shill masterworks is not a good look. Especially when a realistic picture of the economic outlook is crucial to the prospects of these sorts of megaprojects. Otherwise, nice vid, as always
So scammy. They need better sponsors.
what does it say about the subscriber base
4 months after the fact and the line about the snp 500 on the verge of a steep decline is hilarious.
Aged like milk.
So basically 90% of us watching this video will be dead by the time the whole thing is competed. Cool.
Congratulation to your grandson's grandson.....the project is done !
It's called planning.
@@7950KaraAre you out of your mind? Nowhere in my comment did I say it was wrong to plan for the future, the only thing I'm saying is it really doesn't need to take that long to deliver. I don't want to be the 'if this was China...' guy but if this was China it'd be built in a fraction of the time. It's not complexity that causes the time frame to be so long, we know how to build train lines through all kind of places, so why exactly can't it be delivered sooner?
Still has more of a chance of being completed than a Sydney train has of actually running on weekends.
@@-Osiris-Democracy, the thing China doesn't have. Trying to keep the disruption to daily life low so as to not risk losing public support (and funding) for the project. That and ever-increasing population density and development makes doing things in the middle of all of it tricky.
And this doesn’t even include the close to 100 level crossings that have been removed in Melbourne in the last 10 years or so.
Brisbane Australia has a similar problem of almost all train and bus routes only going north and south into the CBD. It if you need to go sideways through suburbs, good luck lol.
We are getting another train tunnel but our main priority is highways and more north/south routes...
Geography definitely plays a part here but its been an issue some have echoed for years. We are so car centric with no end in site.
The Bruce Highway is a joke every morning. Can't believe these idiots are patting themselves on the back for adding an extra lane which runs 5kms and the bottlenecks again.
Same in Adelaide
I used to live in Melbourne, the train system is lacking, to put it politely for sure.
Now I live in Tokyo and without a doubt the train system here, just in Tokyo alone is incredible.
It's possible to walk in any direction and stumble upon a subway station or train station.... there is no chance of getting lost ❗👍
Cheers to all of you from my favorite TH-cam channel 🤟✨
I live in Melbourne now working on infrastructure projects . I had the pleasure of visiting Tokyo a few years back and it was amazing trains go everywhere you are very lucky hopefully it’s like that here one day 😊
The fact that we get free videos from The B1M on TH-cam is priceless, keeping the education and knowledge alive. 🙏🙏🙏
The Burwood to Caulfield example is something that can't be solved by a metro, but could easily be served by an expansion of the tram network.
Extending /cutting the 72 route at gardiner station, and extending it to Caulfield would do wonders.
Or just use the bus network lol
Lol. Yea okay. I’ve read
some silly things. Yup people really are going to go on slow trams rather than a car from the driveway b
@@xr6lad trams aren't slow if you give them dedicated right-of-way. Melbourne's trams often reach speeds of 50 and 60 km/h, maybe even more in some cases
@@TheLostProbe ‘if you give them right of way’. 7 words that means it’s sill unlikely.
As an Australian, I find these comments hilarious and funny! But yes Australia has many mega projects, particularly in the transport industry
It's not just Australia, it's every western country. The cost to build these projects is through the roof.
I worked for Sydney Train as a subcontractor no longer ago, and I now know where and how our Tax is burning.😂😂😂 @@Djamonja
Oh hello QWERTY
@@LachieVidsTransportVlogsHey Lachie!
@Djamonja Costs for transit projects are not nearly as high in Spain and France as they are in England and Australia for instance. The whole procurement and decision making process is rotten in some countries.
This is the first time i've been really disappointed by a B1M video. As an infrastructure and skyscraper junkie, i felt this video was thrown together quickly , placed more importance and information on the built in ads, and gave short shift to the builders and designers of what is an amazing project in a city that is growing and developing at an astounding pace. I hope that when the B1M is in Australia in the next couple of months to help with the very worthwhile mental health issues facing workers in the construction industry, they can take a few moments to pause and look back at this video, and then raise their game to the level that we have come to appreciate love and respect.
In all honesty , it was depressing to see such little effort shown.
Yeah, they didn't even answer the biggest questions everyone has, which is why will it take so long and why is it so expensive?
the melbourne SRL was thrown together quickly as a pie in the sky election promise to win votes so i guess that is some synergy
Thrown together quickly, just like the shoddy SRL
Nice coverage B1M! We were also amazed with the prospects of this project and made an in-depth video about it!
PS. support for mental health in construction initiative! It is important!
as a melbournian i really want this project to go ahead and think its a vital link for the city but project management could be better making construction cheaper and quicker without cutting down on scope
Stay in Melbourne.
Thank you.
From Qld.
Amen brother, stay down there you commo/hipster scum bags
@@greer-lr2lgi used to live in brisbane, don't feel like coming back
thank you for making so many brilliant videos on my beautiful city of Melbourne, one of the most livable in the world for a reason
20% increase in rent prices in one single year does not scream most livable. It kind of seems like those statistics are a little tricky!
Lol, crack heads agree. CBD is the spot to be
@@soulsphere9242so is every Australian city.
Honestly Perth is way nicer than Melbourne. Melbourne is a slum in comparison
@@ACDZ123please dont say that ever again. Maybe Sydney can and possibly Brisbane but Perth is levels below 💀 maybe compare Perth to Adelaide or Canberra instead ? 🤷♀️
Hi B1M! You should do a video talking about the Hong Kong Redevelopment of the old Kai Tak airport, which is now being transformed into a large sports park and a large stadium. They are also building a lot of new housing in that area.
Thank you for your videos as always!
Ahh, Kai Tak, I have fond memories of gripping the armrests of my chair really tightly during landings and hoping we weren't about to overshoot the runway and drown to death.
Speaking about metro networks, strange you haven't done an episode on the Moscow Metro. The newest expansion is the completion of the Big Circle Line, a 70-kilometre loop that links 31 stations and opened in March 2023. More people use it than in London, it is aesthetically striking and unique.
I was surprised how comprehensive the line is...
I'm surprised that you're surprised considering the state of world's geopolitics at the moment
I am an Australian who lives in Melbourne with my Austrian partner. She absolutely cannot get over how bad our public transport is, with no interconnectedness between train lines.
In Vienna, she could get around easily on the metro. In Melbourne, you need a car.
Vienna is the size of Dandenong.
thought you said austrian painter lol
And then get stuck in traffic
As someone from Vienna who went to Melbourne once I can unfortunately only agree with you. I loved everything about Melbourne (one of the few cities that I visited I could easily imagine myself living on a permanent basis) but the public transportation system really wasn’t great, to build one subway line in 60 years is beyond ridiculous, it should take 20 years max
As Sime pointed out, Melbourne is absolutely huge in area and this is the cause of many of our problems. Melb is just under 10,000 km2, Vienna is just over 400! For comparison Greater London is about 1,500.
I am really proud to see that London is considered for Metro line 2:28 as one of the most efficient in the world together with Tokyo, SIngapore & Mosco!
Indeed in London you can reach point A to B so easily in the cities major location with underground transport that many youngster now opting to bike or just metro to work instead of getting their Car License.
Of course as you go out of the city and to other areas in England you do need a Car instead!
However the London Underground doesn't serve the areas south of the River Thames anything like as well as north.
Moscow metro is very underrated
To rely on public transport in Queensland makes you unemployable so don't loose your licence up here
Berlins S-Bahn is also very impressive and efficient. It's tram and U-Bahn networks are also very underrated ( Even with half the tram network being gone ) And the main station is absolutly huge! Defenatly worth a visit.
I lived in Melbourne for a decade; I don’t know when or how that data was taken but there is no chance only 3% take the train to work.
At each office almost half of everyone I worked with took the public transport and half of those were train.
Edit: just read the top comment and I’m relieved. I knew it.
that figure was the 2021 statistics at a time where melbourne was still in lockdown and thus many people who worked in the city worked at home
Great to know I’ll be 99 by the time I get to ride the full loop from cheltenham to werribee.
Whilst this is great, it fails to deliver on the most lacking area of PT investment, which is the western suburbs. Not only do we need the loop that brings people around from werribee to the north, but the suburban rail density needs to improve across all the western suburbs area.
If you look at the map shown at the start of the video, you’ll see how biased the network is to the east. This is the problem now and needs to be fixed to make that side of the middle and outer ring viable for growth.
Trains will serve the population in the east, not the cow paddocks in the west
@@74_pelicans🤨
@@74_pelicans that’s not practical if the goal is to grow out the population over time.
The eastern side is fairly dense already and there is a natural growth corridor between melbourne and geelong to be exploited but lacks the PT infrastructure to make it a viable alternative for people that need to commute from the west.
I remember when I was occasionally commuting from point cook and the west gate fwy was a parking lot by 6:30am.
Rail extensions, increased rail capacity and better interlinked bus services would alleviate a lot of that congestion. Which is only going to grow as more development happens over that side.
It makes sense for the east part to be completed first. I understand the population growth forecast for the west and how densely populated it will be, but the eat is already at that level and only going to continue to be more densely populated.
if you read the fine print in the plans you won't be able to make a full trip on the loop. you will have to change trains 3 or 4 times to make a complete journey from cheltenham to werribee
Its best to be careful at this time. What will happen to the economy and markets remains a mystery. There seems to be more negative portfolios this 2nd half of 2023 with markets tumbling, soaring inflation, and banks going out of business. My concern is how can the rapid interest-rate hike be of favor to a value investor, or is it better avoiding stocks for a while?
Just ''buy the dip'' man. In the long term it will payoff. High interest rates usually mean lower stock prices, however investors should be cautious of the bull run, its best you connect with a well-qualified adviser to meet your growth goals and avoid blunder
In my opinion, I'd say just buy and hold; or hire a pro for better guidance. I started investing in stocks before the pandemic and that same year I pulled a profit of about $920k with no prior investing experience, basically all I was doing was seeking guidance from a financial-advisorr. You can be passively involved with the aid of a professional.
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since I lost my job with the ministry, I have been surviving through my investment with Mrs Ava Kimberly, am so glad I invested when I did. I’m earring $25k weekly with her
In Brisbane, the cost of a train ticket from the outer suburbs and back is often more than the cost of parking. Plus, given they come so far apart with so few interchanges makes catching a train the wrong choice for my family and many others. It’s neither cheaper nor more convenient than just driving.
It would be cool to see a video on the California High Speed Rail project as you explore rail infrastructure around the world!
Google it . Multi vids by blm on that debacle
Join us in SYDNEY on 2 November 🇦🇺 www.eventbrite.com.au/e/get-construction-talking-australian-launch-tickets-704163992457
Aww I live in New Zealand. You coming here?
Do one in Melbourne!!
What about Melbourne?
inner monologue: omgomg my city is featured yay :D
logical mind: i really do hope this project survives long-term and is progressed over the next few decades 😄
Trains in Melbourne are just too slow and too infrequent.. miss one and youll be waiting 15-25mins
They did say that yeah
Nah, less than 12 mins at Carnegie now, becoming every 3 mins next year when the city loop by-pass tunnel opens.
It’s worth noting SRL will connect Australia’s largest university by student numbers (plus about 5 other smaller universities) to the wider network. Students generally equal ridership. Plus the better connections to fast growing towns and cities on Melbournes periphery.
Pie in the Sky.
For your information, the map you showed of the Oslo metro (t-bane) in the intro is outdated by about 15 years. I can't remember having seen this map since around 2006/2007, so the fact that you found it is impressive on it's own, but I think it would be nice if you updated your map by a decade or two. That being said, not much has changed since then and the next notable change will come in a few years with the addition of the Fornebu-line.
This project is still not going to solve the issues facing rail users in the west of the city. It is far too little far too late. We need this, but not in that time frame and missing new stations in the west. I'll be dead by the time this competes - I have long given up hope of an improved rail system in Melbourne. Still, interesting video.
16 years in Melbourne and counting and I have used the train exactly twice … to get to the footy.
I havent used PT in 59 years
@@robertfonovic3551 Well if 3551 is your postcode, you live in Bendigo! So it's hardly surprising you don't use public transport...
2:25 Tokyo isn't so much a pattern as it is 'just build trains everywhere'.
It's like thrice the size of the other cities so it has to be. It honestly looks more like the Shanghai metro than Singapore or London
True. Plus Tokyo has a history of many different railway operators, both public and private, building vast independent networks, and sometimes cooperating. So that one company may run a metro line in one place with 2 different railway companies lines meeting it on each end, and all 3 companies agreeing to operate some of their trains as expresses through the metro line's tunnel.
Tokyo's transit map just looks like a plate of spaghetti 😂
Airport link actually was given the green light recently, so that's good
as an aussie and sydney-sider, i pretty much use the trains + bus lines to get anywhere that doesn't have parking. if there is parking, i'll usually opt to drive because its still cheaper when considering the cost of petrol.
You kinda left out the fact that its in so much heat right now that parts of it are being postponed indefinitely. Also we're beating sydney by a technicality, because we included some suburbs, we havent just gained an extra million people in the last 9 months
Sydney used to beat Melbourne's population on a technicality by including the Central Coast (Gosford etc). If Melbourne followed the same logic, we'd include Geelong.
It's insane to think about, because as a Sydneysider because we'd prefer LESS people here to ease the housing crisis.@@zoomosis
Even without the reclassification of Melton, Sydney is still only a couple of hundred thousand people or less more populated than Melbourne.
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Building wealth and remaining financially stable indefinitely is a lot easier with the appropriate information. Participating in financial programs and products is the only true approach to make a high income and remain affluent indefinitely...
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So Melbourne is spending 124B AUD = 74B Euros on a single new line, a tunnel and some new stations. I’m from Melbourne and now live in Paris, where for 41B Euros, 200km of new underground lines, 68 new stations and a high speed airport link to CDG are all being built. Oh and built in a small fraction of the time… Something very inefficient somewhere in Australia.
Yeah, mate, labour costs are absurd, and so is the bureaucracy.
Everything is done slowly from decisions to projects.
Dont forget. That budget includes delivery of Snowy Hydro II (the ‘U boat’ project), as a favour to ‘Albo’ and the cost of Mr Daniel (chalk & boack board track & trace) Andrew’s superannuation bill.
Not mentioned in video: the V/line overhaul that's being planned as well as the Cossing removals & rebuilding of many MANY stations on the Melbourne suburb trainlines. Also not mentioned it costs WAY more here than other Western countries so of course it's going to be expensive. There's a ton getting done and overhauled because no state government was bothered to invest in public transit until now. It should have been done 30 years ago and not left to get into the state it was in because private companies wanted big arse ugly roads, including the Federal government who wanted a unnecessary freeway built we didn't need because they didn't want to help upgrade our public transport when approached.
@@meikahidenori Huh? “..it costs way more here than other Western countries so of course it’s going to be expensive.” What costs way more? That just confirms poorer cost efficiency, which was the point.
Crooked government, crooked unions, crooked developers who get the uplift on the project. Taxpayers are the big losers here.
Great work B1M. I wonder how many other people noticed the NSW train in this clip.
For those abroad, I live amongst this construction project. Last year in Five Dock, Sydney a new Metro station was commenced. There was a little office there providing happy cheery information on completion. Yeah, 8 years to construction a train station. A kid in public school will grow up, go through high school, leave and go off to university and have that mostly done in the time this will take to complete and it's happening right across the city.
and in Sydney the police do pop up police check points at train stations to strip search those school kids
And we still don’t have a train to the airport…
The airport itself needs a make over 😊
And yet melbourne STILL can't get us our airport railway done
Well, due to the federal government holding money. State want to build
@@74_pelicans Not just the state government everyone wants it to be built
-The state government wants it
-The opposition wants it
-Transport advocates wants it
-Most voters want it
-Contary to popular belief the airport wants it too although they want it to be underground
The federal government might want it as well but we gotta see whether they choose to fund it once the review is over
It may have something to do about your state debt as well ! 180 billion dollars and growing.
@@Westcoasteagles2018 no it doesnt only the federal government withdrew funding and they will put it back in again if the project is approved in the 90 day review the state still has commited their fair share of funding to the project
@@RealNotOrrio Oh, is there an election coming up ? We might even see the "Silver Emu" High Speed train flying again. Like those pigs that can do it ...
The biggest flaw and critique of the SRL is definitely the weird decission to make it all underground. Suburban Melbourne is very well... suburban. Most of whats being tunneled under is single family homes, not dense cityscape. Financially and in terms of potential ridership, spending that much on bored rail tunnels simply makes little to no sense compared to building at grade, or on elevated viaducts over the city's arterial roads. Even if the city decided to rezone and allow much higher development along all of the SRL's route, it would've still been easier, faster, and more affordable to build above ground before said high densities started appearing.
Strongly disagreed… I’ve worked for both LXRP and the new metro tunnel. Difficulties associated with building sky rail and permanent grades through suburban and inner suburban areas far outweigh any potential financial savings. Metro would have been tied up in court for years. There aren’t quite as many stakeholders to consider when you’re digging meters underground.
there's an element of future proofing right?
@@ilikegamesandtech6712 absolutely
Considering how innefficient this project is, it's going to need to be future proofed because by the time its done, those suburban areas will be full of high density skyscrapers
I've lived in Melbourne my whole life, a lot of the early transport connections are made by bus routs to connect train lines adjacently instead of needing to go into the cbd.
We have 4 bus lines connecting most of the train lines called smart buses and they run as frequently as trains
Yes, and the buses are mostly incredibly slow, cumbersome and contribute to onroad traffic congestion. Try planning a simple journey using trains and buses and you're looking at 1.5-2 hours. Melbourne's train system is severely lacking; a significant reason why people still use cars.
THIS is what city planning can achieve! The US needs plans like this!
Don’t be fooled. I’m Melbourne born and bred and I’d move to US tomorrow if I could get citizenship
@@thedownunderverse what living in Melbourne does to a mf
@@thedownunderversedole bludger ?
Thanks for featuring Australia's metro tunnel projects - Melbourne, Sydney & Brisbane (all tunneling under major bodies of water too). Was very happily surprised to hear you're up to speed with and also showcasing Melbourne's Suburban Rail Loop project.
Both are absolute game-changers for how we'll move around Melbourne in the future. And recently flagged for planning delays (again)....the direct rail link to Tullamarine Internatinal Airport.
Level Crossing Removal Projects, Melbourne: yourself and your viewers probably know this....other transformational works have also been taking place since approx 2010:
* th-cam.com/video/ool_yvzL2As/w-d-xo.html
* th-cam.com/play/PLbH9kG-O9LH4dtLMjybXlWmufHhJFBrse.html
* th-cam.com/play/PLbH9kG-O9LH51YZkyheBNI6oLCfLrVKhi.html
-----
MEDIA COVERAGE | 2023
Melbourne’s $12bn Metro Tunnel to open in September 2024, builder lets slip
The head of construction giant John Holland reveals the new, early completion date at a Victorian Chamber of Commerce and Industry event
* www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/10/melbourne-metro-tunnel-opening-date-september-2024
Testing delays could push Metro Tunnel opening into late 2025
The Metro Tunnel Project is prepared for up to 12 months of delays during a risky phase of testing and trial operations, which could push the opening of Melbourne’s new underground train line to late 2025.
The state government has previously said the $12.6 billion cross-city rail line between Kensington and South Yarra would open some time in 2025 - a year earlier than first scheduled.
* www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/testing-delays-could-push-metro-tunnel-opening-into-late-2025-20231012-p5ebtr.html
Pie in the Sky.
Stay in Vic fools😂
For reference on how bad Australian public transport is, for me to get to work it would be a 3 hour train journey with a 20 minute bus ride on top of that.
Whereas its only a 45 minute drive.
takes me 50 mins two trains to go 5km in Brisbane lmao
Or uh um, there isnt a direct link from your sprawling suburban house to your work
@@74_pelicans I don't live in a "sprawling suburb"
I live in a town, the train station is a minutes drive from my house. I work in the CBD.
I just moved to Melbourne from NYC and the statements about slow public transport are so accurate!!! The trams share the road with cars and get bogged down with traffic, they’re slow, small & mostly non-accessible. We constantly have to route through the Cbd and farcically don’t have credit card payment so no one ever pays. Like all cities in Australia, a car is an essential means of transport, hurting the walkability and enjoyment of the city
Normally I try not to date my videos by referencing something which indicates the time of the video being made. the fact that you included Margo as Barbie Reference is actually a good thing because it told me how current the video is it may not age well but I still appreciate it.
B!M I live in Perth, Australia. We are also undergoing major changes. In 1 month my train line closes for major upgrades. There are loops going in etc. Edit, I grew up in Melbourne and definitely miss trams.
A friend of mine, a car nut, once bragged about Perth: "Best town in the whole of Australia. NO annoying trams ..." Sigh.
@@thies7831 As a former Perth resident - and grateful escapee - I can vouch for Perth being the ugliest, stupidest, most backward urban sprawl in Australia.
WHAT THE HECK! A 3 week lead in time to get the night off work and travel from Brisbane isn't much... but I think I'll give it a go.
Sydney's massive Metro system will be completed much sooner. Phase 1 is already up and running. Phase 2 will open early next year which includes a huge tunnel under Sydney Harbour. Phase 3 will probably be completed late next year and the final link is under construction around the new international airport.
Recent figures have shown it will cost $216.7 billion to construct the first two phases (Cheltenham-Box Hill, Box Hill to Airport)
I haven't lived in Melbourne for 7 years now... And yet it jas immediately brought me right back to my frustration with the trains. They should have had the foresight to do a bunch of this a long long long time ago. A major city without anything other then a bus to the airport? Ridiculous!
Loooove Melbourne and love to see this development!
😮 whats to like about melbourne
@@thedownunderverse Just about everything except the weather. No shortage of awesome places to train pretty much any sport, sick street art, mad restaurants everywhere, and the best live entertainment scene in the country. You'd have to only give a fuck about beaches to think Melbourne sucks lol.
@@mikesnow. i’m born and bred here dude, and now think it sucks soooo bad. Expensive, congested, polluted, crowded, cold/wet. Oh but u can get a $30 falafel in brunswick then go see a poetry slam at the night cat and see the homeless…. I mean street art…. In the windswept, graffiti’d laneways. Oh and “da coffee” 🙄
@@thedownunderverse That would be one way to spend a night. I don't drink coffee so no comment there. Sounds like you need to relocate if you're actively hating the place online.
@@mikesnow. would love to but have a good job here. that’s a blessing of course and i’m grateful, but the city itself has been destroyed so i’m investing elsewhere.
I just cant believe there isnt an high speed train from melbourne to brisbane via sydney. Just unbelievable.
High Speed Rail tracks don't grow on trees, nor does the money to build them
@@fluoroantimonictippedcruis1537 funny you mention that. Our governments are excellent at throwing money away. Take Victoria, paying a 350million fine for now not hosting the commonwealth games. Or how about the federal gov for wasting 450million on a referendum that was always going to fail. Etc etc etc So where did this money grow from eh?
People have been researching this and trying to make it happen for nearly 50 years. Ultimately, between the geographic challenges and the economic arguments, it just doesn't stack up. There's a lot of mountains in eastern Australia, and the distance from Melbourne to Brisbane is simply immense. Australia just doesn't have the population to make it financially viable either; China, Japan and Western Europe all have huge, massively concentrated populations in comparison, so their HSR systems are serving >100M people each, whereas a Mel-Syd-Bris train would serve ~15M.
I'm not an economist or an engineer, so maybe there are flaws in these arguments I'm not aware of and it is viable after all, heck that would be awesome! But so far every feasibility study has indicated otherwise 😢 The government has just dedicated a couple hundred billion dollars to having another crack at it though, so maybe our train dreams will come true one day...
ETA: This idea has even served as the plot of an episode of an amazing Aussie comedy show, Utopia, a satire about people working for a government infrastructure department. The whole show is outstanding, both hilarious and spookily accurate (according to sources who actually work for similar government organisations!), but the "Very Fast Train" episode is a particularly good one 😄
@@margottago ph I totally understand what you're saying. A lot of big infrastructure that would be great is held back by the lack of population.
However not only trains for people, but freight as well, and also a road network. There is 53,000 flights per year between Melbourne and Sydney apparently with 700,000 seats per month. And will only get busier.
In a world where they want to cut pollution, doesnt it make sense to go down that route. The carbon saving, pollution, accidents, etc etc.
Just have to plan for the future. Gov spends billions in brisbane and we finally are getting some decent hwy upgrades. I mean we still have single lane hwys up here in qld and they wonder why there's so many deaths on the roads.
But all good.
@@ALLOFTHEBOOST
I agree Sydney to Melbourne but Sydney to Brisbane is probably never going to hapen.
They're both 1100kms apart roughly and Brisbane is only 2-3 million people.
Sydney to Melbourne is definitely worthwhile due to air traffic and potential rural use but just got to get it rolling.
B1M used to provide in depth analysis of construction projects before.
Now, it's just puts out a superficial video with too many ads + "shoutout to our sponsor".
Journey Beyond would LOVE to see this!
When you live a 20min drive between Pakenham and Frankston, yet it takes upward of 2hrs+ to get there by train, you REALLY need an Outer Loop
Apart from the cost, the main cause of concern is that the new circle line closely follows a series of lines built over a century ago, the Outer Circle, Inner Circle and Rosstown lines. They were joined and formed a route through suburbs close to the proposed route of the new line. But they were a catastrophic failure and the Alamein line is the only remainder still in operation. But almost the entire route is preserved as strips of parkland. It would cost 15% as much to rebuild these lines by "cut and cover" as it would to build the extravagant proposed line only a little further out. Personally I think we should resurrect these lines and put them a few metres underground rather than waste an eyewatering amount on building a new but, similar line.
Yeah, connecting the Alamein, Glen Waverley & Dandenong lines with rail (even light rail) is one of the most glaringly obvious things the state government could do. Cut and cover would destroy a lot parkland and be extremely unpopular with the locals, though.
@@zoomosis "Cut and cover" means you dig a trench, lay a giant pipe inside for the trains to run through and then doze a few metres of dirt over the top. Vastly cheaper than a bored tunnel and after its built, the land is restored and no one can tell there is a train line beneath it. I live 100 metres from a park that runs along the route of the former Inner Circle Railway and having a train beneath it wouldn't bother me.
Trams could be run along the old outer circle route, linking the Dandenong rail, Chadstone Shopping Centre, Glen Waverly rail line, Alamein rail line converted to tram, to Camberwell train station. Could be extended to East Kew and on to Fairfield.
A few things - the outer circle line you are referring to opened and closed in the 1890s. It was intended to carry Gippsland traffic into the outer suburbs but never served this purpose, and a depression in the early 1890s meant that developments around it ceased which rendered the line useless. Even after they reopened part of it, it remains one of the least used lines on the network. Were they to reopen the full line, there would be an issue of needing to figure out topographic constraints, property and land acquisition, and crossings for both the Eastern and Monash freeways (as well as several roads). It also wouldn't be servicing / connecting any big population centres to major developed areas (thinking of Monash uni, etc). Inner Circle is similar in the sense that reopening would not connect any major lines, and it would not assist anyone that lives more than 3km north of the city. It would create a few level crossings on very busy roads unless they put it below grade (very expensive, lots of land acquisition) or putting it above grade. So basically, the SRL will do a better job than both of these lines in every regard, and will only be expensive due to the immense engineering scale behind it. You can't just go a few metres below ground because of services, property acquisition, and needing enough clearance for trains and accessible stations. "Cut and cover" is a tremendously destructive method of building tunnels, so TBMs for deeper tunnels are always preferred in built up areas. Given the way the city is developing, it will not be at risk of low patronage as the others were, and it will promote development outside of the CBD. Hope it helps clear a few things up
Melbourne has grown. Get some old Melway Street Directories and compare how the demographic centre (it is marked in them) has constantly shifted further outwards, even with lots of high-rise concoctions being squeezed into the traditional areas, where those track remnants are lying dormant.
Love your work, keep it up B1M!
Masterworks is a mix of NFTs and money laundering. I'm disappointed.
Life Tip #1: don't take financial advice from something advertised on TH-cam.
Lol did you buy anything?
@@jeebusk I'm terrible at buying things that are legitimate products. No, I haven't touched this money laundering Ponzi scheme.
"We've been building metros wrong" is a huge overstatement. More correct would be "car-focused cities with no tradition of mixed-used development have bad metros".
In Perth the different lines going into the central city are being connected together too, reducing travel times between suburbs.
If this is one of the most expensive projects, I highly doubt it will get completed. Construction will last for more than 50 years, I believe as time passes costs will go through the roof
It will in all likelihood get cancelled
Construction will be done in 20-30 years and is gonna cost about 50 billion. Sydney has a metro project of similar size, cost, and construction time. The 2084 number in the video is just wrong. The third section is actually a separate line that'll be finished first in the early 2030s, and the final section is just electrification of an already existing line. It's fine.
Melbourne's population is expected to be almost double by 2060. I'm not sure how realistic that is, but the costs involved should eventually be offset by the increased revenue from a larger population. If population projections are accurate the cost of not building it will likely outweigh the construction cost in terms of lost productivity due to congestion.
Though I'm not convinced starting the project in the south-east is wise, given that a large part of the population increase is in the western suburbs.
There's also a risk that the SRL eats up all the money needed for other transport projects, like rail electrification to Melton, rail extensions to Clyde, etc.
@@zoomosis where are you going to put 5m ppl more? endless suburbs?
@@chris_yangthe blue team has ran on 3 elections trying to downsize or get it scrapped and lost each time 😂
You did the Belgrave line dirty Fred, it's the most beautiful train line in Australia with a rich history. It deserves to be mapped correctly.
Belgrave line is beautiful?! 😮
@@thedownunderverse The gateway to the Blue Dandenongs (and overcrowded, overrated 1000 steps in UFTG) ... Connection to Puffing Billy ... and who can forget the adventure of taking the 688 from UFTG to Croydon or v.v. via Mt. Dandenong ? Only the Himalayas are more exciting ...
It staggers me how London and New York built huge subway networks over a century ago covering hundreds of miles while today building a 20 mile long tunnel can take 30 years minimum to complete...
It doesn't, normally.
It only does in the Western English speaking world with outrageously inflated costs.
Paris is currently building 200 kilometers of new metro lines in much more complicated soil and densely populated areas for half the cost of SRL while delivering it in stages between now and 2030.
The problem isn't technical / technological, the problem is in the way these projects are done in Australia, Canada, UK and USA...
The same projects in other developed countries are done faster and much cheaper.
It doesn't take that long elsewhere. Paris is currently doubling its métro mileage (125 miles/200km are being built). Construction started in 2018 and should be completed in stages from 2024 to 2035. Also China has been building subway networks very quickly in the past 20 years in several cities.
@@KyrilPGbut the English speaking nations will dominate for thousands of years to come. Lesgo champp anglos on top 🔝
Wow! That sponsorship Segway was seamless! Very smooth! 👌😃
Haha, don’t forget the time they leveled a couple blocks worth of skyscrapers in the Sydney CBD to upgrade the railway there.
I'm so glad I live in Tokyo after seeing all those other cities' rail maps 😳
Thank goodness for trip planning apps and IC cards though! From what I've read about navigating the system of mixed public and private operators before the advent of apps and IC cards, it used to be far less appealing than the much smoother experience now.
Can’t really compare a highly populated and dense city like Tokyo to the suburbia in Australia.
New b1m video?
I love Melbourne ❤
Several major Australian cities have tried to start similar infrastructure upgrade projects but they either got cancelled or were stalled due to funding issues.
Lucky them. Melbourne/Vic is BROKE
It’s amazing seeing full size excavators and scissor lifts, big knuckle booms and the works all under ground, like little toys.
I’ve worked underground in Sydney for 2 years on the west connex and north connex trust me any machine you see down there is scrapped after the project . I followed work to Melbourne now but wouldn’t work underground for a million dollars a year it is grim .
2084? Australia making UK infrastructure projects look efficient.
Things work slow in a banana Republic mate. I know,I live here.
Australia should invest $125 billion in defense against animals, you never know when next Emu war is coming
I would have loved to get more information on why it will take over 60 years to complete only 90 km of metro.
Probably takes awhile to come up with the cash, also tunnelling the entire way I guess? Still seems crazy tho
It won't. The first two sections (the actual metro) will be finished by the early-late 2040s. The third section is a separate line that'll be finished in the early 2030s, and the last is the electrification of an already existing line.
If Melbourne's population keeps ramping up as predicted the project might actually be finished much sooner, due to increased funding and much higher demand.
Interesting to note the Melbourne Metro is expected to open ahead of schedule.
When the conservative Liberals get back in power in Victoria they will cancel all public transport initiatives like they did last time. The Metro city loop by pass tunnel would be up a running years ago if they hadn't interfered and tried to change the project to suit their developer backers.
You see, years ago, in 1983, my wife met the Chief Town Planner of Perth, flying to Frankfurt, Germany. In Economy Class. These days public servants are studying important projects all over this planet for several times, staying in 5 star accommodation, moving about in at least Business Class, wining and dining with other dreamers, before writing lengthy reports about all the risks involved in these Mega structures. They are not out of reach, although the costs involved and already incurred in the planning stage, have to be well considered for a positive outcome.
Love the channel mate. Keep up the great work.
In the 1960s, Sydney was going to connect the M4 freeway from Strathfield to the city. After 50 years of delays, they finally started the project and extended it by about 10km - to Ashfield - mostly underground. The next 15km might take another 100 years. In any case, the new metro will service a lot of areas, but it still won't reach the majority of inner suburbs.
Youre so negative you almost qualify as a Melbournian.
Seems like I'll be retired by the time the Airport Line is built in Victoria
Rumours are having it that immortality will be achieved by 2040. You might even be able to use the Airportlink ... One day ...
So happy Melbourne has stumped Sydney as most populous city - groovey!
No it hasn't just yet. That's a misleading statement. On current projections, Melbourne's population is expected to overtake Sydney's within the next decade, but it depends on how it's measured. One thing that is missing in this comparison is that Sydney is now a mega-city of over 6 million including Newcastle, the Central Coast and Wollongong. In addition to the existing extensive suburban rail network and the new metro lines now coming on stream, all regions are connected by electrified Intercity commuter rail and have been for many years.
Which means that it should be doing a lot better in a lot of different sectors than it is now...
@@tobyb6248 Like what?
@@exray1 Its economy, higher PT usage, more international destinations to name a few. I was responding to the original comment FYI
@@tobyb6248 Sorry. I misinterpreted your comment.
In Victorian this project has been brought to three elections, all with the Labor Government being returned to power after continuous commitment to the projects completion. The opposition has taken scrapping the project to three elections and lost. This indicates that Victorians want the project to be seen out. Naturally with a project of this scale, the scope has slightly changed with the paused to the Airport Rail Link section. Hopefully the State Government can see the benefit in bringing this forward in the construction pipeline in the coming years.
As someone living close to all these works, I have to say it will help our city a lot
Australia : Suburban Rail Loop
Malaysia : Klang Valley Mass Rapid Transit
South Korea : Great Train Express
United Kingdom : HS2 & Northern Powerhouse Railway
Thailand : High Speed Railway network (5 line)
US : California & Texas HSR
India : RRTS
THINK BIG ... prune ... ah ... cut back harsh.
We weren’t designing them wrong. Things changed, and we are adapting to those changes
of course we were designing wrong - any city that doesn't include east to west transit options as well as north to south is ignorant and short-sighted by any stretch
@@Howsoonisnow-to5nv how very easy for you to fault people who have been dead over 100 years. Typical
Genuine question, is there ever any point starting a project that is going to take 50 years to finish? The world is so radically different now than it was 1975. It's like starting a billion dollar project in 1975 to increase the speed of traditional mail deliveries, and then the internet coming along in the meantime. I'd be staggered if we were still going to work on the metro at the end of this century.
In this case, sort of...
Our train lines have been in use since WW1 with some expansion.
The scope of the project probably needs adjustment but it will be used if built properly.
I don't think many people know that the SRL is effectively shelved for now. The airport link was officially shelved a few weeks ago and it was one of the earliest and most visible sections of the SRL. The SRL is still officially in "planning" but at the moment it's looking like they'll complete the small amount of works already in progress and then it won't proceed due to lack of funding.
I hope they don't cancel, because they shouldn't. The economic impact and housing development created by these projects if completed would make albeit inflated costs, still worth it.
They just ripped up the box hill tram stop for SRL works doesn't sound shelved.
It isn’t shelved😂
@@SuperWasabiking They're just completing works that were already started
@@zsaleeba SRL work is ongoing as its state funded. A pause was placed only on projects with commonwealth funding for a review of all national infrastructure projects.
For such a short loop it's astounding it's forecast to take so much time to complete. Even the proposals for high speed rail between Sydney and Melbourne take less time than this
If you live in Burswood and work in Caulfield you’d take the light rail and the tram south so I think that’s a bit misleading saying you’d travel into town.