Why Unicode HATES This Language!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.พ. 2023
- Tulu is a language spoken by millions in South India, and yet it lacks any form of standardized writing, and its own script isn't even encoded into Unicode!
Please feel free to discuss the topic and leave suggestions for what my next video should be about in the comments.
Yes, the title is clickbait. Sorry but also like... Lingolizard said it was a good title! So there! :P
Also, I know this video isn't the highest quality, but it's really my first attempt and I put at least 40 hours into this. I really hope you enjoy it despite the somewhat shabby art and editing. And hey, if not, you've got something new to make fun of!
SOURCES: Not in the order they appear in cause I forgor
restofworld.org/2021/tulu-uni...
home.unicode.org/about-unicode/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulu_la...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigalar...
www.thehindu.com/todays-paper...
www.endangeredalphabets.net/a...
restofworld.org/2021/tulu-uni...
Tulu samples based on tcy.wikipedia.org/wiki
Unrelated Vaishnavi Murthy’s channel www.youtube.com/@VaishnaviMur...
The circumcisory islamic practice in question: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khitan_...)
www.unicode.org/pending/propo...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zawgyi_...
www.frontiermyanmar.net/en/ba...
www.unicode.org/faq/myanmar.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex...
Unicode PDFS U18B00, 17378, and 21210, as well as Chapter 18 of the Unicode Standard Core Specification
THE HOLY LABELMAKER www.labelvalue.com/dymo-label...
www.flickr.com/photos/nirak/4...
www.thehindu.com/news/cities/...
www.mangalorean.com/mesmerizi...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K._P._Rao
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone
www.nbcnews.com/tech/gadgets/...
www.frontiermyanmar.net/en/ba...
#tulu #tulunadu #linguistics #art #animation #furry #educational #education #india #burmese #unicode #typography #writing #scripts #abugida #culture #anthro #humor #asia #english #wrenisprobablybored #wrenguistics #men
Okay, so, unexplained hiatus out of the way, there should be a new video relatively soon! It depends on how long art and stuff takes but the script is done, as well as the script for another video even further out. This past year I've struggled immensely with perfectionism and extremely bad mental health, and I'm only really getting back to this now. Which is great because this is randomly getting a spike in views. So be on the lookout for more Wrenguistics! content, assuming all goes well. And thank you, really. Seeing this is so motivating and I don't even know how to thank you all enough.
o hell yeah!!
God bless!!!!
Yoooo looking to seeing new vids from this channel >:]
Are you aware that citing references is a video's description is still considered plagiarism? The references must appear on screen, even if only briefly, in such a manner that they can be read (as opposed to a blurry scroll) as the printed description is legally deemed a separate publication to the audiovisual.
@@Ggdivhjkjl thank you! Will do that for future uploads.
mad one. title isn't clickbait. lingolizard is just the goat and knows what sounds good
Omg! You're here too!
I'm South Indian who can understand but not speak tulu. Thanks for bringing attention about the tigalari script still
Listening to a furry talk about tulu is so surreal.
Remember me when you get famous lol
Remember me when your channel is famous
yess i shall
@@wrenisprobablyb0red me too! this is definetely going to get some traction soon
@@wrenisprobablyb0red Remember me too when you're famous! ^w^
Remember me when you get famous
Ok
Thanks for coming to check on the comments! I never expected this video to reach many people. This has just been one of the coolest weeks ever for me and I'm really thankful that you all are here. I really appreciate it!
I hope your channel becomes more famous. This video was really informative and also fun to watch!
this is really cool!!! im excited for potential future linguistics videos!
I thought it was Telugu, but turns out it isn't. Sorry for barging in.
“Why does Unicode contain X but not Y?” never fails to peeve me.
The first preliminary proposal for encoding Tulu-Tigalari was submitted in 2011, the final proposal with all the information necessary for standardisation was submitted in 2022, and it will be added in Unicode 16.0 later this year. This is a completely ordinary and reasonable timeline. The reason the process can take so long is because it’s a massive amount of work done almost exclusively by volunteers, they can’t afford to make any mistakes, and - in the case of Tigalari specifically - there was a lot of disagreement between stakeholders over the nature of the script that took years to (somewhat) resolve. See the same reason for why fixing Mongolian is moving at a glacial pace.
If Unicode doesn’t support a particular writing system yet, it’s because nobody has submitted a complete proposal that answers all the necessary questions for making it work yet. There is nothing deeper to it, no hidden cost-benefit analysis. If you present the Consortium with a writing system that is or was used by real people and thoroughly explain all of its aspects, they will add it to the standard as soon as possible.
Sorry for the short rant. I just see a lot of people who notice that Unicode is missing something that seems obvious to them (or just believe it’s missing without actually checking) and immediately start suspecting some nefarious reason behind it, often pointing to some ancient script or obscure math symbol that was added before as if those characters somehow “took the place” of the thing that they care about in a zero-sum competition. I know your video isn’t really doing that, but it reminded me of something that I’ve seen happen over and over again and it immediately put me into arguing mode.
Figured this would happen eventually with the clickbait title. My apologies for that. I just wanted views, idk. This video isn't about some nefarious reason unicode hates Tigalari, it's just about why it was taking a long time. The entire point boils down to 'it's a complicated script that people disagree over, and these things take a long time to encode' because this one I had seen bring up specific controversy and I'd seen folks painting unicode in a bad light. I don't think I did a great job making it clear what I meant with this video, but it's also the first video I've ever made and I was trying to make sure it was less than 10 minutes. I don't know that the decision to implement it was fully made yet at the time of this video being created; I could be wrong, however. I revisited this topic for an essay I wrote later and saw that.
I mean, you're completely right! I mostly just feel bad for probably misrepresenting a situation for the purpose of getting more views. I'm going to try not to do that again when I restart the channel.
@@wrenisprobablyb0red It’s all good. As I said, your video isn’t really an example of the kind of stuff I usually see. It just had enough of the same hallmarks - like bringing up some random other writing system out of nowhere, as if to imply Unicode cares more about Khitan Small Script than Tigalari - that my brain short-circuited for a bit.
Unicode has been one of my prime special interests for almost a decade now and I just can’t help myself when someone gets something wrong about it, no matter how minor the mistake. It’s not your fault.
>Script is almost 1000 years old
>It's been around longer than I've been alive
I mean, I guess so
I'm only 349 years old. Practically a baby.
You should talk about Marshallese's emoji vowels and the story behind them, I think it's pretty funny linguistics trivia that could also teach some phonology.
Problem is that that's just one paper that used them to avoid controversy. It doesn't really say anything about the semantics of emojis or allophony. I may mention it in the future in a video about allophony but it's not really noteworthy to report that some guy somewhere wrote a paper where he used emojis as vowels. That being said, it certainly IS interesting, and I enjoyed reading about it and watching the video Babelingua already made on it, haha
I'm Tuluva. (Yaan Tuluve).
Very much pleased to see this. ( Nenn thuud masth kusi aand). Thank you (Solmelu)❤️❤️
Hello there! TH-cam recommended to me a video about Unicode so I'm watching it.
I hope there will be more nerdy stuff in your videos in the future
Oh! Don't worry, there absolutely shall!
Thanks for the links in the description. Not all videos have them, despite their importance.
Congratulations on your first video Wren!
Tulu script is the common ancestor of both Tigalari & Malayalam script. The palm leaf manuscripts of Tigalari & Malayalam belong to much later period. But there are many Tulu stone inscriptions which belong to the period of about 5th century...
Protip, keep going. I wasn't interested in this until I watched and it legit kept my interest. 10/10
Here before this channel blows up!!!
This video has the same vibe as a LingoLizard video :)
This is a year old and only 6,1K views?! I can't wait to see your video blow up. Really liked it! Looking forward for more :)
Second video within a month hopefully... I'm a bit of a perfectionist though so I keep panicking instead of making progress... Heheh
But this video blowing up for a second time has convinced me to get back to work. So thank you!
I have to admit that correcting yourself over a term I’ve never heard before using a voice encoder that is hard to decipher is a gag that should have been treated circumsizatory. Other than that, amazing video.
Hi, this is a really good video. Thank you for the effort!
I loved everything about this video lol (I have nothing else to say since I'm still a noob at linguistics)
Wow had no idea you made videos. Subbed and waiting for the next upload
Wait I feel like I recognize your profile picture, but I'm blanking on the name... Who might ye be?
So... when are you streaming? 😈
I might actually stream myself drawing new character stills at some point! :P
You really did a great job ! Suscriber gained !
Good luck on your way to become a legend
watching a legend in making right now, this was weirdly entertaining.
Nice video! Keep it up! 👍👍
There should also be better documentation for making fonts for these types of scripts. I'm trying to work my way around FontForge with a script that is an abugida (has the vowel diacritics) and it's hard to find what I'm doing wrong and also the process is very annoying.
Ugh, yeah, fontforge can be like that sometimes. And there should absolutely be better documentation for it. I think it's a big part of the reason that scripts other than Latin, Cyrillic, and Greek always get the short end of the stick and often have really crummy fonts, without much variety.
Anyhow, which script are you making a font for?
@@wrenisprobablyb0red It's actually my own script, (check out r/neography) but basically it works the same as the kawi script.
Praise the Algorithm™ for showing me your video lmao
Seriously, great work. A really interesting essay on a language I've never heard of... plus I have a soft spot for the slideshow-with-a-lightly-animated-avatar format, which you do well!
great video!
So much I didn't know. Thank you!
This so well done, love it. (ps ur cute as heck)
Does anybody know if you can get Bazin Punctuation Marks for actual computer use? I've been trying to get them, but can never find an actual place to download them!
Nice video!
praise be to the algorithm gods
the text saying something additional to the audio instead of saying the same thing reminds me of jan misali, nice
Your channel seems intresting and you seem to have put effort into your video. I have decided to subscribe to your channel have a good day or night
Really nice video, just one thing to nitpick, in the french sentence at 3:19 , you forgot to conjugate the verb : Pour éviter que ça se passe
In 2012 I was in Disney Epcot Park. There I heard the strangest language spoken by a family from India. That language was Tulu!!!
this is very good! 😀
Thank you for covering our regional languages
Your channel is going to have an exponential rise due to this video alone!
So can I get pinned?
Oh my! A furry channel about linguistics?!
* SUBS INSTANTLY *
Man is gonna get famous
I actually friggin loves this 😎
If you want another script that Unicode has trouble with, try Sutton SignWriting.
This is the kind of stuff that gets a channel famous.
I'm never open about most all anything furry on this TH-cam account I'm using here, regardless, I am in very furry things outside of TH-cam.
This was video was so awesome, I literally know nothing about linguistics but I feel like I rlly learned something!
Nice video. Unicode is super neato
Have you seen the T a n g u t script? And perhaps weirdly, Tocharian doesn't have its own unicode encoding yet.
As a tamilian, Dont remember me when u get famous
This is suuuuuper cool,,,
6:45 I support your word creations, I do this too all the time 🤭😎💪🏻
in fact toki pona (a conlang) made an ENGLISH word made of toki pona words meaning "to make a new word": nimisin
it comes from toki pona "nimi sin" (new words) and is both a noun and a verb. people who make nimisin are called "nimisinners" and the act of making nimisin is called "nimisinning"
@@notwithouttext Ooo interesting 👀 although nimisinning sounds very peccant 🤣 I'm not a sinner, only a nimisinner 😎
@@frasenp8411 yeah haha that's part of the joke i think
"sin" in toki pona means "new", from mandarin chinese "新" [xīn].
but it looks like english "sin", which in toki pona would be "pali ike" (bad actions) or just "ike" (bad).
the joke is since toki pona is supposed to be a simple language (usually less than 150 words!) creating words, a lot of the time, actually IS sinning in toki pona
I wish they taught interesting stuff like this at school Xd, ty. Also amazing editing Wren 0-0
Proposal is in the hands of unicode consortium. Since tigalari and tulu script look the same. They re pushing to re-use tigalari for tulu. If done so this will vanish the identity of tulu script. Hence we have opposed that proposal .
Dropped a banger then dipped
I'm like Gotye but for Linguistics and I also didn't make anything great
@@wrenisprobablyb0red BRO MAKE ANOTHER
You are the SECOND language youtuber who has dropped a banger, dipped, and still replied to my comment
ok wait I wrote this before I saw the new pin
@@100percent12 Haha, literally got this comment while working on art for this project ;)
Furry linguists is what is lacking on youtube, i wish you well and hope you succeed!!
Or they could standardise it without ligatures. Most languages had ligatures, but are no longer used, most certainly when typed.
Hi Wren 💪💪
OH MY GOD A FURRY LINGUISTICS CHANNEL I AM SUBSCRIBED !!
Haha! Yeah, and I'm not the only one! Though I daresay I'm the fluffiest :P
@@wrenisprobablyb0red there are more ??
please do share
@@nyuh lingolizard is the only one who comes to mind admittedly, though i do know other furry linguists
Though he's technically a scaly.
@@wrenisprobablyb0red Ohh lingolizard! already subscribed to him too lol
Any plans to make a new video?
Thanks for checking up! Yes, I do want to make a new video, but I'm an extreme perfectionist and struggling with bipolar disorder and stuff. So like, my ability to create anything is a struggle. I have a video about altaic languages thats been almost completed multiple times before I gave up and restarted.
Not Tulu but Telugu. It exists as font, don't know whether Unicode, but at least one can write it on computer.
Telugu is encoded into Unicode, but this is a video about Tulu, which is different. Unless that ain't what you're saying, which is possible. Bad at reading people sometimes.
I was Expecting Arabic.
But this is do much more interesting!
YOU NEED MORE RECOG
I Think That I Have To Make Tulu From The Private Use Area. :P
Among us tasks
Great video and interesting topic.
But begging me to laugh at the Burmese/Myanmar joke multiple times did not make it funny, it actually made it less funny. A good joke, doesn’t need to be explained.
OwO its awesome to find another furry that likes linguistics uwu
Bro, me too
nice
5:15 Hey guys, did you know that in terms of male human and female
ว้าว
Many Tulu stone inscriptions were found and now the excavation about tulu is getting hype, Tulu tigalari, Tulu Malayalam are from tulu only
hello
furry linguistics im subscribing
townsend
FURRY!!!!
Yes.
অন্য ভাষার কথা বলে লাভ নাই।
আমার মাতৃভাষা বাংলা ভবিষ্যত অনেক টনটন
Based and K Klein pilled
Bro, Tulu is my mothertongue . It is first born language of all other Dravidian languages. Malayali got scrip becaut of Tulu language..
Inaccurate. Both Tulu and malayalam have a common parent script. Malayalam was not derived from Tulu
Furro
wut
please cut the “nowadays known as Myanmar” running gag 😭 once would’ve sufficed, the second time was already annoying… Plus, at one point it was even factually incorrect, as you said “Burmese language - nOwAdAyS kNowN aS mYaNmAr”, although Myanmar refers to Burma, whereas “Burmese languages” corresponds to “Myanmar *language*” (Myanmar is the country)…
Oh trust me, I hate the bit too. Perhaps if I hadn't used the gross-ass audio filter it would've been less horrible, but I wanted something to make the line 'stand out' and decided intonation wouldn't be enough. I made this video a year ago and that was the first thing about it that I regretted including... I think I told a friend I hated it within a week LMFAO.
As per the factual accuracy, I am pretty sure the language is referred to as Myanmar *in* Burmese, but you're right in that most English speakers would still say Burmese. It does disambiguate it from languages like Rakhine.
As far as cutting it out of the vid goes, this video sucks and I might remake it sometime, but like, I'm not re-editing *this* version and will probably take it down once I pick up the channel again. This is the first video I'd ever edited and it was not at all where I wanted it to be. Thousands of folks seeing it made me feel kinda nauseous cause this was more of a 'proof of concept' than anything, though obviously it's wonderful.
are you a furry
why are you an anthropomorphic animal?
furries usually are
it looks like fake malayalam
It's closely related!
Hahahahaha, i mean the scripts are more closely related more than the languages after all
@@wrenisprobablyb0red LMAO I THOUGHT IT WAS LIKE A CONLANG SCRIPT OR SMTH BUT THEN I WATCHED THE WHOLE VIDEO
@@bonemarrow3439 Yeah! Although despite it normally being written with Kannada online, Tulu is actually linguistically closer to Tamil and Malayalam, though it's a bit of an in-between situation from what I understand. Obviously I don't speak the language, sadly.
@@wrenisprobablyb0red o lol, how many languages do you speak? i speak like 3 naturally (english, urdu and hindi) but i know how to read a lot of scripts despite not understanding the actual language and i'm learning bengali currently because it's related to urdu and hindi and the grammar is the same as well as the phonology
Haha furry
aww poor indian script №9112381 it was so unique and uh... um
There's a difference between visually unique and culturally important. Either way, it's being encoded now.
You coulda used a funnier number too. Like 9112001 or smn. It's played out but I mean 9112381 just looks like you spammed random numbers and called it there.
Have a good day, lesbian gnome!
@@wrenisprobablyb0red wtf this chatgpt ass reply have a nice day
Missed opportunity to use the letter, ඞ, at 3:08.
and yet Unicode did incode ꙮ, which was only used in a single manuscript and wasn't even incoded correctly