Hey everyone, Eric here. Thanks for watching and all the comments. I’ve heard the myth repeated a lot that testosterone levels were higher in this era and therefore it was like these folks were on steroids and natural athletes today can’t hope to come anywhere close. Let’s set the record straight, we have data on 1980’s men having slightly higher testosterone than today, but not on any era prior to that. Think about it, testosterone had not been identified in the early 1900’s and late 1800’s so how could people do blood draws and analyse the testosterone levels of men from this era? Also, even if they had higher levels, similar to as men did in the 1980’s, this would amount to about a pound or two of muscle mass, and less than a single FFMI point increase on average. Feel free to read the research and also check out the analysis on Weightology by James Krieger where he examined the relationship between testosterone and muscle mass showing that for every 100ng/dl increase within the normal range there is an increase of baseline LBM of .6kg. The difference between today and the 1980‘s is pretty small, maybe 15% on average (so maybe you’d see a 100ng/dl increase if you were high normal today vs then) and likely due to lifestyle changes. So if you are an active, exercising, healthy individual lifting weights, you have good reason to believe this wouldn’t apply to you. Also, don’t look back on this era with rose tinted glasses and think they were somehow special. Life expectancy was decades less, the Great Depression occurred as well as WW1, the industrial revolution, and we spent multiple hours more per day doing housework, manual labor, and poverty and malnutrition rates were much higher. Things to consider next time you hear someone make such obviously false claims before repeating them, I’d probably question their motivations as it’s like trying to find any explanation of how physiques like these aren’t possible today despite a complete lack of logic, or historical backing.
It is very important to be realistic. It is also important to know what is possible for your body to achieve. Let Eric Helms walk you down a brief history of truly natural lifters as we re-examine FFMI (fat free mass index). If you enjoyed the video make sure to give it a like!
OmarIsuf this video is misleading. When people reference the 25 number as a natural limit they are talking about people at competition body fat percentage 4-6%.
It's amazing how good the dynamic between Omar and Eric is. Like, don't get me wrong, Omar has had some pretty good guests on, but none of them have been as entertaining in tandem with Omar as Eric is. Keep it up!
I'm conflicted about this topic. On one hand, I like the idea of encouraging lifters that they can achieve more than what they have been led to believe all these years in terms of size. On the other hand, debunking the idea of the FFMI being a valid argument will allow more fake natties to get away with fooling people into believing they are natty.
The article doesn’t refer to FFMI-25 as an absolute. Bare in mind to have an FFMI above 25 is roughly 7% of the naturally trained population and above 26 is around 2%. Above roughly 28 and you’re looking at a tiny fraction of 1% of the trained population. There is some individual variation, however anyone significantly above 26 FFMI is more likely than not to be using steroids. Your average short arse body builder (5’-6”) who weighs 220lb, has an FFMI of roughly 32, is juiced to the eyeballs.
George Hackenschmidt, Hermann Goerner, Ernest Cadine, Bobby Pandour, Arthur Saxon, Bob Peoples are all good examples of what is possible to achieve naturally. Also at the time, they were doing hard physical work all day, plus training, their natural testosterone were probably going thru the roof compared to today's standard.
You’re the best overall fitness / bodybuilding channel I have come across over the last several years and I just wanted to say thank you One More East Off. Your information is always thorough, honest, and balanced. And you have introduced me to so many other legitimate sources such as Mr. Helms. In a world of fake nattys and bro science you truly are a beacon in the night. Thank you sir.
Eric Helms is right ! All the people tell you, you can`t gain muscle while on caloric deficit, I was in a caloric deficit and I gained arm size. He pointed this out in another video in what scenario. So I believe also this video. Much respect !
And yet none of them have that ultra lean, vascular, hard, full, skin tight look to their muscles. No huge disproportionate traps,delts and upper chest etc. You can visually spot fake natties a mile off, no need for FFMI.
There are people on the gym that take steroids but have poor receptivity too steroids and barley have a noticeable physique change . You can’t spot it in everyone
I recall Nuckols and Trexler also touched this in Stronger by Science and made a notion that you can get really big and have more muscles with higher fat mass, like american football players and sumo wrestlers. That's curious to me, that if you forget the low body fat people, you can get pretty high fat free mass indexes
8:57 You can't even tell if he's really lean because the picture's so black and white. There's lighting and shadows that enhance the look of the muscle.
I think Scott Herman is a great example of natural, he trains his ass off nearly everyday and looks great but isn't massive. If anyone is much bigger than Scott Herman knowing how much/well he trains and knowing his diet is on point you have to question it.
5'8 205lb 20% bodyfat 17 inch arms 17 inch calfs natural ( for 4 years) did 1 cycle 8 weeks test deca no pct quit the gym for 1 year and workout at home for the past 3 years
I think you make a good point in this video. If we become too focused on this idea that, "Oh, those guys aren't natural" we put ourselves in danger of limiting our own potential, simply by throwing in the towel, rather than pushing ourselves as hard as we can. Some things may not be realistically attainable for a natural lifter, but the reality is that you can never be certain of that unless you put everything you can into it.
I thought what people say is that you can't be under 10% body fat and be over 25. Because a natural won't hold on to that muscle when getting that lean. They say that's why natural bodybuilding shows look like the weight lifting section at the concentration camp.
I got a inbody test twice in two days and the results came in and i don’t believe it, it gave me a fat percentage of (%12.4) first day and (%13.3) second day.. and I weigh 100kg and I’m 186 cm tall , im completely natural and i look like i have 20% body fat i can send pictures
Always interesting to hear these studies, but also think some people need to hear this as well: Stop worrying about what you can achieve and lift like a freak and work your ass off. I've made much better gains when I stopped worrying about what my limit is and just enjoying going to the gym and getting energy out. If you don't like to be in the gym then bbing/powerlifting is going to be a shitty experience.
Ffmi becomes more relevant regarding matties when you really factor in body fat levels, in the sense that when you go really low, stage-ready body fat, that’s where being over 25 is extremely suspicious if possible at all
I feel like I'm the only bodybuilder in my town , I really have to change gyms , no one can keep up or wants to, I kinda want a training partner , as a tool , to help us both push eachother to get more out of training , Vegeta would have never gotten as strong as he did if not for kakarot ...am I right ?
Ffmi does not account for bone weight , fat free mass index means bones and muscle so you might have heavy bones and thus a high ffmi number but not much muscle ,
Bill Pearl said once there arent many bodybuilders that know about training and nutrition but they're still champions its in their genes they born for it.
LOVE THIS VIDEO!! There's TONS of examples of dudes in the fuckin 1920s and 1930s that exceed the 25 hard line limit of FFMI and that is way before steroids. Imagine what a person today could do naturally with the advancements we have made in nutrition, training, and recovery protocols.
Think there needs to be consideration of the fact men in the 1800's and early 1900s had natural test levels many times greater than men do today. Male testosterone levels have been on a steady decline for decades, probably centuries for all we know. "Studies show that men’s testosterone levels have been declining for decades. The most prominent, a 2007 study in the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism, revealed a “substantial” drop in U.S. men’s testosterone levels since the 1980s, with average levels declining by about 1% per year. This means, for example, that a 60-year-old man in 2004 had testosterone levels 17% lower than those of a 60-year-old in 1987. Another study of Danish men produced similar findings, with double-digit declines among men born in the 1960s compared to those born in the 1920s." There are all kinds of theories as to the cause be it phytoestrogens, diet etc. but clearly the natural bar was much higher in the past.
PROJECT DX Good for you man but that doesn't prove anything. There are always outliers which you are likely one of. We're talking AVERAGES here. What you're saying is the equivalent of someone pointing out that we have an obesity epidemic in the US and you saying "wrong" while pointing to some shredded fit dude. Not to mention your stats the FFMI is still below 25
This is so great, it's just telling us how you are capable of so much more without the help of chemicals. All the nattys that hop on the gear just aren't being patient and could even go become so much more. Ima try to break the highest ffmi thought possible
The fact that we're eating foods with higher trans fats and preservatives and have more sedentary lifestyles in the U.S. nowadays than back then (cars weren't as widely used and more people walked), all that has to do with testosterone production. People were leaner and lower fat percentages have positive correlation to testosterone increase.
Thing is though ffmi doesnt take into account hormones, androgen receptor sensitivity and density, myostatin, shbg, etc. I got my testosterone tested at 1,622 ng/dL natural DHT was 1,486 pg/mL Pretty sure I can get quite a bit above 25 ffmi. I dont have any clue how my androgen receptors are but having high test usually upregulates them quite a bit
Based of this I will consider *the new FFMI limit to be at 30* until more information says otherwise. Also it is my understanding that FFMI is the most accurate the leaner you are. So my personal standard will be measuring at 10% to keep things consistent Anyone between 25 - 30 would have to be an advanced trainiee with better than average genetics and I will count them as natural or at least I will say their physique is attainable naturally, which is what I think people care about more anyways
Sebastian Apolo by his own admission he wasn't. But just alter the way youre looking at this. The real question is *is Arnold's body achievable naturally?* Now if you look back at my comment I spoke about how body fat % can skew this formula. This is something that needs to be fixed in order to be more accurate But if we take somebody at let's say 10% bodyfat and test their FFMI we can get something reasonably accurate If somehow has a FFMI of 30 at 3% bodyfat then we can assume some sort of drug use as the body won't naturally hold on to so much muscle at that body fat level So in regards to the question is Arnold's body achievable naturally? *I will say that I have extreme doubt that Arnold's shredded, muscular stage body is achievable naturally. I also assume that his off stage body would have had a much higher FFMI too which means that I also extremely doubt be able to attain his off stage body naturally* But if one was able to achieve a FFMI of say 29 at 10% bodyfat for example, I would consider that attainable naturally by an advanced trainiee with good genetics Really we need more information to make the FFMI formula more specific based of bodyfat % but for now tho this is the best we have
Steroids were definitely around in the late 30's, all of the 40's and 50's. Synthetic test was first synthesized in 1935. Test prop was given to soviet athletes throughout the 1940's and this is documented. FFMI also loses accuracy the higher the BF %
Yeah, but it was a carefully guarded Soviet secret that they didn't want other people knowing about. Hence why the U.S. only found out about it in the 50's, when the Soviet Olympic weightlifting coach drunkenly spilled the beans.
Gixxer Fixxer they should have asked reeves and grimek since apparently they were using since the mid 40s... lol I reckon whatever PED’s 40s bb’s were on is surely counterbalanced by modern training and nutrition advances.
Eugene Stoner Hmm... Interesting. But that doesn't necessarily incriminate young Steve Reeves and Reg Park, since they achieved their iconic physiques in the late 40's. And in Reeves' case, won his first major competition in 1947 (Mr America).
Here’s what I’ll say…. I have never done body building but I spent the last 5 years obese. I am currently 6’4” 293 and 26% body fat. My FFMI is 25.9. I have never touched steroids and just started hitting the gym in the last 2 months. I really don’t see if this is an accurate test or not.
I have been lifting naturally for 8 years and Im at 23 FFMI. Which is pretty close to being classified as steroid user. Although I have average genetics, I do have the knowledge for this sport since Im a physical therapist as wel. There are too many steroid users who would have a FFMI of 26-27 so I wouldnt recommend increasing the FFMI. 25FFMI is already hard even with superior genetics and knowledge.
Both of your collars are excellent. They could be slightly deeper for V-necks, esp yours (can’t hide that asschest your worked for), but otherwise they looked pretty good
Great to see people are choosing to step away from the "ffmi 25 = natural limit" bullshit. Even so, an ffmi of 28 @ my height (6"1) at 15% is 245lbs... That is a massive dude.
Back in the a guy got locked up and 3 years later this formerly buck 60 guy comes out of the joint at 225 with a 30 inch waste. No juice, a lousy diet of peanut butter and white bread and the man is a beast. The limits are in the mind and bad genetics.
I understand the point of ripped Body Building for Natty's, but I always believed that we look better with a bit higher body fat % with the higher amount of muscle that it comes with - too ripped means you lose muscle in the weight cut. Just my Opinion that a bit of a extra beefier look is better for us Natty's, for both the look, plus if we have to "bar bounce' haha.
Hey everyone, Eric here. Thanks for watching and all the comments. I’ve heard the myth repeated a lot that testosterone levels were higher in this era and therefore it was like these folks were on steroids and natural athletes today can’t hope to come anywhere close. Let’s set the record straight, we have data on 1980’s men having slightly higher testosterone than today, but not on any era prior to that. Think about it, testosterone had not been identified in the early 1900’s and late 1800’s so how could people do blood draws and analyse the testosterone levels of men from this era? Also, even if they had higher levels, similar to as men did in the 1980’s, this would amount to about a pound or two of muscle mass, and less than a single FFMI point increase on average. Feel free to read the research and also check out the analysis on Weightology by James Krieger where he examined the relationship between testosterone and muscle mass showing that for every 100ng/dl increase within the normal range there is an increase of baseline LBM of .6kg. The difference between today and the 1980‘s is pretty small, maybe 15% on average (so maybe you’d see a 100ng/dl increase if you were high normal today vs then) and likely due to lifestyle changes. So if you are an active, exercising, healthy individual lifting weights, you have good reason to believe this wouldn’t apply to you. Also, don’t look back on this era with rose tinted glasses and think they were somehow special. Life expectancy was decades less, the Great Depression occurred as well as WW1, the industrial revolution, and we spent multiple hours more per day doing housework, manual labor, and poverty and malnutrition rates were much higher. Things to consider next time you hear someone make such obviously false claims before repeating them, I’d probably question their motivations as it’s like trying to find any explanation of how physiques like these aren’t possible today despite a complete lack of logic, or historical backing.
Eric you are a great guy to look up to! I know you gonna keep it up, but nonetheless keep it up. Cheers man.
Team3DMJ Eric, you Sir are what we call in Spanish , "A Bad Mother@$!#er." Godspeed.
Epic thx
Not to mention their diet. Cleaner foods, less chemicals, no technology making people lazy sloths. Actually had to work to survive back then.
Yes more wild meat and no radiation from phones/computers. Chemtrails was not used back then etc...
When did Omar turn into Captain Jacked Sparrow?
Knugen av Swärje it’s just angles bro
You spell very well for being The King of sweden
Knugen av Swärje..
Knugen av Swärje du är inte bara en SD asså❤️
#SD 2018!
It is very important to be realistic. It is also important to know what is possible for your body to achieve. Let Eric Helms walk you down a brief history of truly natural lifters as we re-examine FFMI (fat free mass index).
If you enjoyed the video make sure to give it a like!
OmarIsuf this video is misleading. When people reference the 25 number as a natural limit they are talking about people at competition body fat percentage 4-6%.
Nope it's 10% bf and below
erics collars were fucking dope!
OmarIsuf that's a really nice shirt you got there... maybe are we looking at a colab? maybe some strongman in the near future?
OmarIsuf Yo, guys, I think Omar has begun his cut because a b got cut into a r in "collars" at the start xD
It's amazing how good the dynamic between Omar and Eric is. Like, don't get me wrong, Omar has had some pretty good guests on, but none of them have been as entertaining in tandem with Omar as Eric is. Keep it up!
That's what I was thinking-this pair has chemistry. They could talk about an entirely different subject and be fun to watch and hear.
FINALLY! Proof that Mike O’Hearn may be natural.
😅😂
😂
TheFuglyman , he is natural indeed. No wonder why the 99% who believe that he's on gear have mediocre physiques.
People like to hate on and abuse what they can't achieve themselves to massage their dirty egos
Mustifa Guspis They were kidding
I'm conflicted about this topic. On one hand, I like the idea of encouraging lifters that they can achieve more than what they have been led to believe all these years in terms of size. On the other hand, debunking the idea of the FFMI being a valid argument will allow more fake natties to get away with fooling people into believing they are natty.
progressive overload of puss boys, I feel you...
Overlord we will find out who's natty when the roid heads disappear at 50.
Right?
Gustavo Cornelius Yeah dude soon as they hop off the juice it's 100 to 0 real quick, they look like they've never been to the gym at all
FFMI has never been valid. The study is flawed as fuck.
Omar: Having a vascular system is possible naturally
The best.
The article doesn’t refer to FFMI-25 as an absolute. Bare in mind to have an FFMI above 25 is roughly 7% of the naturally trained population and above 26 is around 2%. Above roughly 28 and you’re looking at a tiny fraction of 1% of the trained population. There is some individual variation, however anyone significantly above 26 FFMI is more likely than not to be using steroids. Your average short arse body builder (5’-6”) who weighs 220lb, has an FFMI of roughly 32, is juiced to the eyeballs.
Love the Brian Alsruhe shirt you're wearing Omar!
George Hackenschmidt, Hermann Goerner, Ernest Cadine, Bobby Pandour, Arthur Saxon, Bob Peoples are all good examples of what is possible to achieve naturally. Also at the time, they were doing hard physical work all day, plus training, their natural testosterone were probably going thru the roof compared to today's standard.
I think (may be wrong) that they didn't train chest because pectoral development was considered "effeminate" in those days
You’re the best overall fitness / bodybuilding channel I have come across over the last several years and I just wanted to say thank you One More East Off. Your information is always thorough, honest, and balanced. And you have introduced me to so many other legitimate sources such as Mr. Helms. In a world of fake nattys and bro science you truly are a beacon in the night. Thank you sir.
Last time i was this early, england was still relevant
ASMR Meditations no u
too soon XD
Where did your country place?
Eric Helms is right ! All the people tell you, you can`t gain muscle while on caloric deficit, I was in a caloric deficit and I gained arm size. He pointed this out in another video in what scenario. So I believe also this video. Much respect !
Thanks for this. I've been asked if I was on steroids since 15 years of age. Most of the questions were from pseudo lifters who didn't know hard work.
So you're telling me my calves can still grow?
Rs2Hackzltd .Asooma97 Only with duck eggs
Only if you train them heavy with full range of motion and not like a bitch
What's cracking guys home or eat stuff here
HAHAHAHAHHA 😂😂😂😂😂😂
And yet none of them have that ultra lean, vascular, hard, full, skin tight look to their muscles. No huge disproportionate traps,delts and upper chest etc. You can visually spot fake natties a mile off, no need for FFMI.
This comments need to be pinned
No you definitely can't. But you can lament that everyone with a better physique than you is on the roids.
@@johnfurr5698 Or you could try to use your brain and understand his comment
There are people on the gym that take steroids but have poor receptivity too steroids and barley have a noticeable physique change . You can’t spot it in everyone
Neil Armstrong was a juicer but he wasn’t massive was he
I recall Nuckols and Trexler also touched this in Stronger by Science and made a notion that you can get really big and have more muscles with higher fat mass, like american football players and sumo wrestlers. That's curious to me, that if you forget the low body fat people, you can get pretty high fat free mass indexes
I just want a woman who looks at me like Eric looks at Omar 😍
James S 3:31
@@phenomenalbeing1398 bruh lol
8:57 You can't even tell if he's really lean because the picture's so black and white. There's lighting and shadows that enhance the look of the muscle.
I think Scott Herman is a great example of natural, he trains his ass off nearly everyday and looks great but isn't massive. If anyone is much bigger than Scott Herman knowing how much/well he trains and knowing his diet is on point you have to question it.
5'8 205lb 20% bodyfat 17 inch arms 17 inch calfs natural ( for 4 years) did 1 cycle 8 weeks test deca no pct quit the gym for 1 year and workout at home for the past 3 years
I think you make a good point in this video. If we become too focused on this idea that, "Oh, those guys aren't natural" we put ourselves in danger of limiting our own potential, simply by throwing in the towel, rather than pushing ourselves as hard as we can. Some things may not be realistically attainable for a natural lifter, but the reality is that you can never be certain of that unless you put everything you can into it.
I thought what people say is that you can't be under 10% body fat and be over 25. Because a natural won't hold on to that muscle when getting that lean. They say that's why natural bodybuilding shows look like the weight lifting section at the concentration camp.
David Whitney Training & Nutrition i think yes
Yeah I thought that too
Training for the Auschwitz classic
Bob Jenkins lol!!!
Bro, you made me spit my drink out laughing so hard, “the weight lifting section at the concentration camp” bruh lmao
I got a inbody test twice in two days and the results came in and i don’t believe it, it gave me a fat percentage of (%12.4) first day and (%13.3) second day.. and I weigh 100kg and I’m 186 cm tall , im completely natural and i look like i have 20% body fat i can send pictures
alphadestiny on ffmi 25 if i remember right and he talked about that ffmi is wrong and old
tut8banana he’s also short. Apparently my ffmi is 23 I’m 5’4 and I don’t even look like I’ve ever touched a weight I only do body weight movements.Lol
Alex was also 12 to 15% bodyfat at that time, which kinda skews FFMI.
Grave_posiedon what does short have to do with ffmi bro
at. 5 7 mine is 25 and im like 20% bf,if youre over 10% its not reliable
This is one of the best videos for naturals out there. Thank you very much!
5:31 Oh my gaahd its FITLER
ikr, Goerner was like Hitler on steroids. Which is ironic since he was imprisoned by the Nazis.
Always interesting to hear these studies, but also think some people need to hear this as well: Stop worrying about what you can achieve and lift like a freak and work your ass off. I've made much better gains when I stopped worrying about what my limit is and just enjoying going to the gym and getting energy out. If you don't like to be in the gym then bbing/powerlifting is going to be a shitty experience.
Ffmi becomes more relevant regarding matties when you really factor in body fat levels, in the sense that when you go really low, stage-ready body fat, that’s where being over 25 is extremely suspicious if possible at all
I like these collars so i smashed the like button.
I feel like I'm the only bodybuilder in my town , I really have to change gyms , no one can keep up or wants to, I kinda want a training partner , as a tool , to help us both push eachother to get more out of training , Vegeta would have never gotten as strong as he did if not for kakarot ...am I right ?
Helms/Isuf is such a fun and informative collaboration, love it
Ffmi does not account for bone weight , fat free mass index means bones and muscle so you might have heavy bones and thus a high ffmi number but not much muscle ,
I always just chalked it up to training frequency
I think John grimek was natural when he competed in the 1940s. He did the greatest artistic pose of all time with his pillar pose.
15 years? I'm crying for u right now.
Excellent episode guys really enjoy finding out and learning more about the history of body building
This was easily my favorite video by OMar (srs). The “peace” at the end brought tingles of joy down to my
BF matters a lean 27 vs a 20% fat 27 is huge
Bill Pearl said once there arent many bodybuilders that know about training and nutrition but they're still champions its in their genes they born for it.
6:45 look at his bone structure, those wrists are huge. Bone size helps immensely.
This was really really AWESOME 👏 and it’s super good to have Eric around.
Very interesting and unique topic! Thank you!
Solid video Omar. Curbys strenght and power signing out
i knew simeONcycle pandaman was natty all along!
Awesome content Omar!
Good stuff Omar love the content, keep up the good work cheesepuff
LOVE THIS VIDEO!! There's TONS of examples of dudes in the fuckin 1920s and 1930s that exceed the 25 hard line limit of FFMI and that is way before steroids. Imagine what a person today could do naturally with the advancements we have made in nutrition, training, and recovery protocols.
Think there needs to be consideration of the fact men in the 1800's and early 1900s had natural test levels many times greater than men do today. Male testosterone levels have been on a steady decline for decades, probably centuries for all we know.
"Studies show that men’s testosterone levels have been declining for decades. The most prominent, a 2007 study in the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism, revealed a “substantial” drop in U.S. men’s testosterone levels since the 1980s, with average levels declining by about 1% per year. This means, for example, that a 60-year-old man in 2004 had testosterone levels 17% lower than those of a 60-year-old in 1987. Another study of Danish men produced similar findings, with double-digit declines among men born in the 1960s compared to those born in the 1920s."
There are all kinds of theories as to the cause be it phytoestrogens, diet etc. but clearly the natural bar was much higher in the past.
Dystopia1980 yup thats what I had in the back of my head throughout the entire video, hoping that they will actually speak about that
Dystopia1980
Dont agree. Im 5 8" 182lbs and 12% BODYFAT and 100% natural at 54 years old. I train once every 8 DAYS.
PROJECT DX so how does that disprove his claim
PROJECT DX Good for you man but that doesn't prove anything. There are always outliers which you are likely one of. We're talking AVERAGES here. What you're saying is the equivalent of someone pointing out that we have an obesity epidemic in the US and you saying "wrong" while pointing to some shredded fit dude. Not to mention your stats the FFMI is still below 25
faxts just look at the guys in that 300 movie........
Forreal tho roman soldiers were pretty jacked up , natturally
Yeah man. I love these "collars" with Eric.
This is so great, it's just telling us how you are capable of so much more without the help of chemicals. All the nattys that hop on the gear just aren't being patient and could even go become so much more. Ima try to break the highest ffmi thought possible
I have been training since `81 and I loved all the pre steroid guys and to discover a new one (to me) Pyotry Krylov..just wow.
Hackenshmidt had a godly physique, such a classic shape. These guys prove that hard work can triumph over everything else
The fact that we're eating foods with higher trans fats and preservatives and have more sedentary lifestyles in the U.S. nowadays than back then (cars weren't as widely used and more people walked), all that has to do with testosterone production. People were leaner and lower fat percentages have positive correlation to testosterone increase.
Omar's videos are the only ones which make me laugh in the first 5 sec already.
Diggin the color grading.. oh yeah and the topic!
Loving that Brian Alsruhe tshirt Omar!
Thing is though ffmi doesnt take into account hormones, androgen receptor sensitivity and density, myostatin, shbg, etc.
I got my testosterone tested at 1,622 ng/dL natural
DHT was 1,486 pg/mL
Pretty sure I can get quite a bit above 25 ffmi. I dont have any clue how my androgen receptors are but having high test usually upregulates them quite a bit
You’re either on testosterone or you have hypergonadism or you’re lying
Thank You For The Inspiration.
Eric Helms is lit AF.
6:23 I think he's closer to 20% body fat. It's just hard to tell because the picture's black and white.
Rocking that Shirt Omar.
But seriously what is your problem with Creatine?
I'm sure Igor was shocked after watching this
I agree 100% with FFMI, for years now I've been over 25 at relatively low BF 9.7% 5'11 220lbs by Ultrasound
Ultrasound is inaccurate af
Very interesting. Thanks for the info.
Based of this I will consider *the new FFMI limit to be at 30* until more information says otherwise. Also it is my understanding that FFMI is the most accurate the leaner you are. So my personal standard will be measuring at 10% to keep things consistent
Anyone between 25 - 30 would have to be an advanced trainiee with better than average genetics and I will count them as natural or at least I will say their physique is attainable naturally, which is what I think people care about more anyways
Sebastian Apolo by his own admission he wasn't. But just alter the way youre looking at this. The real question is *is Arnold's body achievable naturally?*
Now if you look back at my comment I spoke about how body fat % can skew this formula. This is something that needs to be fixed in order to be more accurate
But if we take somebody at let's say 10% bodyfat and test their FFMI we can get something reasonably accurate
If somehow has a FFMI of 30 at 3% bodyfat then we can assume some sort of drug use as the body won't naturally hold on to so much muscle at that body fat level
So in regards to the question is Arnold's body achievable naturally? *I will say that I have extreme doubt that Arnold's shredded, muscular stage body is achievable naturally. I also assume that his off stage body would have had a much higher FFMI too which means that I also extremely doubt be able to attain his off stage body naturally*
But if one was able to achieve a FFMI of say 29 at 10% bodyfat for example, I would consider that attainable naturally by an advanced trainiee with good genetics
Really we need more information to make the FFMI formula more specific based of bodyfat % but for now tho this is the best we have
Love the video. Love Ed.
omar you're my natural inspiration (except for calves)
berto is mine! although I love food too much to get as lean as he is off season
berto is from another dimension.. his perseverence and dedication are crazy
Maaaan I love these colabs
Hi Omar may I ask how old are you? Great video yet again!
Hi, Omar how are you?
Tanmay Fadnis Omar is doing great! How are you, Tanmay?
+Azztronaw
I am good.
Steroids were definitely around in the late 30's, all of the 40's and 50's. Synthetic test was first synthesized in 1935. Test prop was given to soviet athletes throughout the 1940's and this is documented. FFMI also loses accuracy the higher the BF %
Yeah, but it was a carefully guarded Soviet secret that they didn't want other people knowing about. Hence why the U.S. only found out about it in the 50's, when the Soviet Olympic weightlifting coach drunkenly spilled the beans.
Gixxer Fixxer they should have asked reeves and grimek since apparently they were using since the mid 40s... lol I reckon whatever PED’s 40s bb’s were on is surely counterbalanced by modern training and nutrition advances.
Eugene Stoner Hmm... Interesting.
But that doesn't necessarily incriminate young Steve Reeves and Reg Park, since they achieved their iconic physiques in the late 40's.
And in Reeves' case, won his first major competition in 1947 (Mr America).
Wrong.
Thunderchole...awesome comeback with great information... At least support your claim. th-cam.com/video/C88Cn9e1UGM/w-d-xo.html
Where can I buy the collars?
started my journey last year october. I can say that it feels good just to lift. I feel great! Wish I had done it sooner.
Omar mate, well done. Now all the fake nattys can claim natty again.
Guess someone thinking about all the premature comments he made on various videos now have increased probability of being wrong LUL
Alexander Zass is another one, who demonstrated crazy feats.
Quality videos brother
Omar rocking the neversate T!
I enjoyed this. Nice video.
Here’s what I’ll say…. I have never done body building but I spent the last 5 years obese. I am currently 6’4” 293 and 26% body fat. My FFMI is 25.9. I have never touched steroids and just started hitting the gym in the last 2 months. I really don’t see if this is an accurate test or not.
I have been lifting naturally for 8 years and Im at 23 FFMI. Which is pretty close to being classified as steroid user. Although I have average genetics, I do have the knowledge for this sport since Im a physical therapist as wel. There are too many steroid users who would have a FFMI of 26-27 so I wouldnt recommend increasing the FFMI. 25FFMI is already hard even with superior genetics and knowledge.
I love me some scientific enquiry! Thank you for this.
That intro! haha Double smashed that like button, more collars!
Both of your collars are excellent. They could be slightly deeper for V-necks, esp yours (can’t hide that asschest your worked for), but otherwise they looked pretty good
Good explanation of Chris Evans!!!
All of these guys were born with superb genetics, that's why they look great..
So what would be a considered good for bmi:bf ratio. Im 27, 6' 207.3 lb w/ 13.3% bf, 28.1 bmi
thanks guys
Great to see people are choosing to step away from the "ffmi 25 = natural limit" bullshit. Even so, an ffmi of 28 @ my height (6"1) at 15% is 245lbs... That is a massive dude.
luvvin that neverstate shirt
Omar you are my favorite TH-camr.
omar, is it camera angel or your one arm is noticeable bigger than the other
Back in the a guy got locked up and 3 years later this formerly buck 60 guy comes out of the joint at 225 with a 30 inch waste. No juice, a lousy diet of peanut butter and white bread and the man is a beast. The limits are in the mind and bad genetics.
When are the raskol merch like the no calve availble again????
This pre steroid era lifter convo was awesome!
Loving that suffer beautifully shirt!
I understand the point of ripped Body Building for Natty's, but I always believed that we look better with a bit higher body fat % with the higher amount of muscle that it comes with - too ripped means you lose muscle in the weight cut. Just my Opinion that a bit of a extra beefier look is better for us Natty's, for both the look, plus if we have to "bar bounce' haha.
nice shirt Omar