When I saw that episode, I felt gratitude that Jason hadn’t yet given in to his urge to stop reviewing new cars, especially controversial comparisons like that one. He’s good at what he does and he loves doing it, the haters can go stuff it. This is coming from an E39 and Model S owner.
So jason is just going to belive the tesla mouthpiece that said the brakes overheating were just false alrams??.. even though Misha and other people that tracked the car literally said they felt the brakes fading away?. Also why do they need to lower the power output of the car if the brake alerts were fake? Jason is as biased as it gets. Just go to the daily driving segment of his las video. The bmw m3 also has red light camera assist. It shows up in ur HUD and tells u when the light is green. BMW has surviellance and crash recording cameras that work just like sentry mode in a tesla. Also everything he mentioned about the bmw while they were in it .. HE DIDNT EVEN HAVE APPLE CAR PLAY TURNED ON. It changes the entire layout and oh.. u can change the stereo and or see the maps in ur HEADS UP DISPLAY. Which tesla doesnt have. Jason had no idea what the bmw offered it's almost like he just saw the categories and automatically gave the model 3 the win. Also for the endurance test Jason calls it a tie? But the model 3 had to be set in endurance mode which cuts the power output in order to finish a lap without overheating. Meanwhile the bmw doesnnt. So how is that a tie? Bro, stop listening and start doing ur own research.
Thank u Jason and Hagerty Team for real automotive journalism. Can't make everyone happy. Love the Randy and TH M3 braking references / tie in, amazing, really enjoyed that bit, top shelf stuff.
I would watch Jason/Randy all day. Such a fantastic combination of substance and entertainment. (Also, the M3/M3 video vindicated my garage, which contains a Model S and a Porsche 914.)
The steering technique is called shuffle steering - very common in autocross because you often need to turn tighter than the steering ratio allows, and shuffle steering enables you to do so without crossing up your arms.
You also see it in rally/tarmac rally driving. Keeping your hands pinned at 9&3 only works if you have a ratio that allows you to keep your hands on the wheel at all time
I really love my M3P. I have no intention on tracking the car but on a Scopttish back road its a lot of fun. Im sure the M3 would be as well but I have completed 4500 miles so far with a total cost to "fuel" of under $10. I have an EV type tariff, that when its windy I can get free or even negative prices for electricity. Scotland is windy BTW! Whiel I have an EV and have no intention of going back to ICE, I do love that the M3 exists. I think any car guy should celebrate both of these cars!
I found it funny that the video is aware of its controversy and tries to be as objective as possible and yet people still get upset. It honestly goes to show that cars are truly emotional objects, for better or for worse.
except it's mostly imagined/contrived emotion since almost no one whining has actually driven an M3 and model 3 perf back to back (or electric car at all usually)
I feel like it's pretty easy to accept the BMW losing based off the main design and focus path the company has been taking itself in. It might still be desirable as a brand statement but as a car... "The Ultimate Driving Machine" hasn't been that for years, right down to the toxic af UI
M3 interior usability - as an owner the only thing that is annoying is using seat heating trough the screen and that has been made better on idrive 8.5 by having icons on the screen all the time. Not ideal but almost all other main functions are there with a button. The only other thing that I do not like is the weight that makes the car too stiff at slower speeds. Other than that it is quite a good one car solution with warranty. Fake sound can be turned off and after market exhaust fix the sound issue.
I used to think I was anti EV. Turns out I actually have no interest in any new vehicles and EV's just fell to the bottom of the heap of things I couldn't care less about. Thankfully Jason's videos are entertaining enough that I still enjoy them regardless of subject matter.
Really enjoy your discussions, and keep doing the comparisons! Would love to see a video of Jason and Derick doing one of their canyon carving days in their beaters and describing and showing what it is that is so enjoyable.
I use Vredestein tyres on my E30 325i Cabrio, too. I bought it with old Vredestein Sport 3 on original BMW 15'' Kreuzspeiche rims. To improve the handling of the car, I put new Vredestein Ultrac on. After a year, I switched to Maxilite 16'' Kreuzspeiche rims and, again, put new 16'' 205/50 R16 87V Vredestein Ultrac FSL tyres on it. I payed about 95 $ per tyre. I have taken the car to backroads, as well as to the Nürburgring GP track and the Nordschleife. The Vredestein tyre is fun to drive.
Thank you for that note on the simulated noise, I wish it made the video because noise is used as a crutch. The only thing that would sway is a manual and that’s not here. Kudos, Jason!
Great video, one small disagreement on what you said about fairness to the car. If the question is best sports sedan manuals should be considered as it’s not their fault they are manuals, just like it’s not the teslas fault it is electric. Think it’s crap Cadillac would not give you a car but also think you should have brought in some older cars like bmw e90 m3, Chevy SS, e39 m5, Lexus GSF as buyer have a choice between new or used cars.
The Tesla Model 3 Performance is actually significantly quicker than most testers have achieved. The 510 HP rating is based on a cold battery at a lower state of charge. If you heat the battery you can add as much as 80 HP. I ran 5 consecutive 10.8x 1/4 mile passes in my 2024 Model 3 Performance yesterday. I charged to 100% with a cold battery and the max discharge value was only 559 HP. However, I was able to heat the battery in about 15 minutes while I waited in the pit line and the Max Discharge Value went all the way up to 615+ HP. Heating the battery is absolutely critical for getting max performance in the Model 3 Performance. So many people don’t understand that.
@ 5N didn’t need any caveats and preheating to absolutely wipe the floor with Model 3 “Performance” around a short track. Teslas are mechanically the least novel EVs on the market. All of the innovations are coming from Hyundai/Kia, Lucid and Porsche. Tesla is just bad at making cars and they are rapidly losing their first mover advantage.
@ most of the drag races they guys aren’t using the N button correct. I was looking at one until the new M3P came out. The M3P is quicker in a straight line. And WAY cheaper.
I really feel you did your best job in this episode of explaining the "why's" to people like me that strongly dislike ev's. I am starting to feel that a lot of the way companies are making their sports cars by making them so synthetic that they are honestly not far removed from an EV. That wasn't the case a few years ago but it is starting to be that way, especially for the German cars. Until EV is as convenient as an ICE engine though (charging time and locations I'm speaking about) then I would still be sticking with an ICE car but definitely not these newest ones that are so synthetic.
I love Jason's journalistic integrity, a lost art in our now "factless world," as DTS says. 1:06 it was the epitomy of irony when an "Elon-esque" narcissist sociopath judges Jason for doing an impartial comparison on a product of a sociopathic narcissist. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 This world is a mad, mad, mad, mad world. (Great movie, watch it)
You guys saved me 140€! Thank you! I would have bought four Micheline Alpine 4, but thanks to your advise I ended up going for the wintracks. And for now they feel just as good as the Michelines but for 140€ less
12000 BTUs of cooling is one ton (per hour, but that typically goes without saying). They used to use ice for refrigeration and even sometimes cooling and it was an equivalent rating
I put a set of Vredestein Ultrac Vorti+ tires on my 350Z and it ruined it. Wayyy to much grip in both wet and dry, maintained tons of grip WHILE sideways, they never got too hot during autocross, and highlighted how necessary a suspension and brake upgrade is. So actually, the tires were phenomenal, I was just upset that I couldn't do hilarious drifts at low speed anymore 😂
I have an e92 m3 6mt for the weekends and the new performance for the daily. Love this combo and cheaper than a new m3. Like I said before Jason’s review of the new one made me trade my one year old performance and lose some money but it was totally worth it. I agree with you Jason!!!
Don't agree with the sentiment toward Motortrend. Not sure who you were talking about, but there are some really good people there and good content that I enjoy. It's also sad when people (film crew etc.) loose their jobs, especially before the holidays.
The equivalent BRZ has a Revelations episode, an 86 episode would be redundant. Not that I'm opposed to celebrating the GR86 in any way - I own one and love it.
"who is going to track an M3?"; boy, oh boy, there are just a gazillion of them every day on the Nurburgring, when the track is open for public!, that's why current m3s are so good at lapping tracks, because they can lap the ring safely and at beyond reasonable speeds for the most of us; no tesla driver can say that. also, you say it was easier to drift, and I don't have any reason to not believe you but, why the car looked so abrupt and wobbly at the begging of the slides and especially at the end(honestly, the tesla looked like it struggled with its mass and suspension), while the bmw looked smooth af and the transitions from slide to drive were absolutely perfect?! edit. I'd still take a LR model 3 and put the difference to an m3 competition to an even more expensive, faster and more of a fun car than the gr86&miata combo.(cayman gts or the boxter gts, if you fancy the wind blowing through your hair 🤷🏻)
58:40 Oh speaking of internet... Comments under T2T video seems pretty senseable at first glance, until you open up the replies... And oh boy it's as messy as you can imagine
I really want to run these tires! A 255/40R17 and 285/35R18 would allow me to use them on my S2000, RX8, C5 Z06, and MK5 Supra. I love them on my truck and Honda Fit for their low rolling resistance but great grip as well. The limited sizing though is an issue
Amazing job, Jason. This podcast explained some questions I had after watching the M3 vs Tesla comparison. Personally, I don't like any of the cars mentioned above. I do like a Miata and the GT/GR86.
A "Tread to Tread" series would be great. Get your sponsored tires on two cars and compare that performance, then show the Vreds compared to their competitors on the same cars -- or to the OE tires for each car.
Doubt anyone here needs this but the “Clownshoe” DTS mentioned at 22:30 is a BMW Z3 shooting break. The editor seems to have missed this, a rarity, and there’s no insert as there is for the GTI a minute later.
Wonderful episode, just as the M3 vs M3P video was. And what a delight to hear some insights about Randy and his personal developments in front of the camera. Funny, uplifting, loads of information, you guys ROCK! Please don't stop doing car reviews and podcasts. I'm so excited to see how this all evolves.
The carbon thing in the center of the seat can be removed for a 5-6 point harness. Not sure how everyone has missed that. The seat is set up for a harness out of the box, if you don't like it get the other seats. I've never even noticed it while driving and I've got a 6 speed.
Question: Why didn't you include the Lucid Air Grand Touring? I understand it's a size class higher, but it would have been similar pricing and it would have been an interesting story element.
Thank you, loved this episode and the G80 M3, M3P comparison. Few comments as a G80 M3 x-drive owner. Price differential is pretty glaring but I'm OK with it. Definitely like the interior way better than the Tesla and the infotainment doesn't bug me.I could probably learn to live with the Model 3 as a daily but it's not luxurious. At the same time, my M3 isn't my daily. Have the regular seats and therefore not annoyed by the CF bucket seats. Steering isn't the best and there is definitely turbo lag down low in the rev range. Power is more than adequate without a tune. Biggest complaint is that it's too fast for the street and is boring at normal speeds. Definitely miss my prior car, an E90 M3 which you could rev out, to the low 8000's, enjoy the sound, and not need to double the speed limit to feel exciting.
Don’t forget resale… Teslas are literally worth nothing after 3-4 years so end of ownership cost may not be that different after resale is factored in.
. Jason is as biased as it gets. Juat go to the daily driving segment of his las video. The bmw m3 also has red light camera assist. It shows up in ur HUD and tells u when the light is green. BMW has surviellance and crash recording cameras that work just like sentry mode in a tesla. Also everything he mentioned about the bmw while they were in it .. HE DIDNT EVEN HAVE APPLE CAR PLAY TURNED ON. It changes the entire layout and oh.. u can change the stereo and or see the maps in ur HEADS UP DISPLAY. Which tesla doesnt have. Jason had no idea what the bmw offered it's almost like he just saw the categories and automatically gave the model 3 the win. Also for the endurance test Jason calls it a tie? But the model 3 had to be set in endurance mode which cuts the power output in order to finish a lap without overheating. Meanwhile the bmw doesnnt. So how is that a tie? Bro, stop listening and start doing ur own research.
@@PEACEOUTXX1 This was a little bit of a weird one for me too. I really enjoy his videos and like the guy. However, his disdain for the M3 shines right through the “journalism” for sure. Some cherry picked things too. Like “who would track their M3?” Literally tons of people… go to most tracks and you’ll many of them there and on a reoccurring basis. The M5 track % factoid is super irrelevant as that’s not the car being discussed but was used in an attempt to make a point. Also, as an enthusiast… which we all are if we are here… Teslas don’t lend themselves to that community… there is nothing you can do with them. Jason himself is a big “modder”… as am I. So for all intents and purposes and also for most true enthusiasts, this Tesla most certainly is not a replacement or substitute for an M3. Everyone has their opinion, and I’m not here to discredit either side. I’ve driven a T Plaid and albeit a stupid fast car it really gets old fast and just turns into a transit appliance.
I put Quatracs on my wifes car and while we liked them and they drive well about halfway thru their life they got absurdly noisy. I will be changing them this spring. I put HiTracs on one of my moms cars and so far so good but they only have a few thousand miles on them.
@@TheCarmudgeonShow For years I've commented on IG and here about positive vehicle chat/ questions/ etc regarding cars we both like with no reply... but it seems the way to get Jason to reply is to argue.
Edmunds U Drag I’m sure will do that. Just hope they properly warm up the battery first. The M3P should beat the Ionic 5N so that should tell you pecking order on their list.
I know Motor Trend treated Jason like shit, but I am still surprised and frankly, a bit disappointed by the diss. I just watched Finnegan's video about Roadkill's cancellation and he really looked bummed about it. I will admit I stopped watching a long time ago when the show went behind a paywall, but it was quite entertaining as a show until then. It even made old American iron relevant for a younger audience. If it came back on TH-cam, I'd watch it. Also, say what you will about Freiburger, but he has the same level of encyclopedic knowledge about muscle cars that Derek has on old 911s. Oh, well...
Enjoyed this episode so much; thank you. As you wear an M5 39 hoodie, why no mention of the Ludic Air Pure that often gets compared to that sports sedan icon? When I briefly drove the Lucid GT in Vegas the steering and chassis tuning seemed world's better than the OG Tesla M3 and better than the new M3P. Jason, Derek, or anyone in the crowd; anyone want to compare the M3P and Lucid Air Pure?
I am getting 2025 M3 Comp x with standard seats and brakes. Looks way cooler and can be upgraded to 700 hp. Sex appeal was lost on this review Jason. I have driven both, M3 and Tesla performance and the M3 is so much more engaging and more fun. Tesla would be my choice if just money. $103k out the door AZ. Tesla's are just clones, for the money M3, Audi, Blackwing, AMG etc are just so much more sexy, ask any hot chick which they would pick......would be great content :), as always the best production and reviews! My friends Tesla model 3 was 70k, although with automated driving, so 62k. so 40k more, one Miata after tax.
It was a good episode. Really wish that someone besides Tesla made a car that could be put on the same level. Maybe it's a dumb question, by why are we not bringing Lucids and Polestars to these comparisons?
@ the Lucids are on par with the M3 in terms of cost (Air Pure), and to my knowledge, no one’s done a group test with a Polestar, but people apparently love driving them.
Hey Vredestein, please bring back the Sportrac 5 in sizes 195/65R14 and 205/55R15, preferably absolutely everywhere. Yes I see the Sprint Classic. I want the Sportrac 5. It is objectively the best performance tire in the world for these 30-40 year old cars and available absolutely nowhere.
I commented this on the comparison video but did you think the TM3P had too soft of suspension? The Throttle house boys said that they did. Ik they had mudflaps that scraped the ground everywhere on their track but what did u think?
I own a new M3P and it doesn't have mud flaps. As for the suspension, it has new adaptive dampers, while I've yet to track it, on a back road it feels great.
Oof, it was sad to see the Roadkill guys get axed. But they had it coming...They basically tried every muscle car out there lol. Wishful thinking but it would be nice to collab with them if you ever decide to showcase a muscle car. They would probably cut your research time as well.
I think a model 3 and 2 door toy would be a fantastic garage. But being somewhere that I couldnt really enjoy my s2000 or something like a miata without going to the track or on a driving trip, the G series cars are definitely still cars I would wake up for an early morning drive. Maybe its because of the example of g82 I was lucky enough to experience, but it made me want to trade my s550 gt in for a bmw with a 6 speed and inline 6 turbo asap.
The test results really didn't surprise me. They still held to the form so far - the electric car is faster short term, but has to compromise its performance over longer intervals. Tesla's engineers have been able to use clever approaches to reduce the downside but that downside is still linked to the current technology state of the art. (That may change with new technologies.) It probably helped the Tesla that the BMW is a real porker and basically gave up the weight advantage that ICE cars have had in past comparisons. Given the background of the people who run Lucid (Tesla and Lotus), I'd be interested in seeing what they could do in putting out a Model 3 competitor. But Lucid has several steps to survive as a company.
How are u going to say that the warnings on the screen for the tesla brakes overheating wasnt real when Misha and many others literally said they felt the brakes fading away ?? Ur really just going to trust the tesla mouthpiece telling u that and not do any research of ur own? That sums up jason comissa.
🚦 Jason is as biased as it gets. Juat go to the daily driving segment of his las video. The bmw m3 also has red light camera assist. It shows up in ur HUD and tells u when the light is green. BMW has surviellance and crash recording cameras that work just like sentry mode in a tesla. Also everything he mentioned about the bmw while they were in it .. HE DIDNT EVEN HAVE APPLE CAR PLAY TURNED ON. It changes the entire layout and oh.. u can change the stereo and or see the maps in ur HEADS UP DISPLAY. Which tesla doesnt have. Jason had no idea what the bmw offered it's almost like he just saw the categories and automatically gave the model 3 the win. Also for the endurance test Jason calls it a tie? But the model 3 had to be set in endurance mode which cuts the power output in order to finish a lap without overheating. Meanwhile the bmw doesnnt. So how is that a tie? Bro, stop listening and start doing ur own research.
When I saw that episode, I felt gratitude that Jason hadn’t yet given in to his urge to stop reviewing new cars, especially controversial comparisons like that one. He’s good at what he does and he loves doing it, the haters can go stuff it. This is coming from an E39 and Model S owner.
Agreed
Thats a pretty neat 2 car solution
The funniest comment I saw was the driver needs to drive to limit to understand why m3 is better 😂.
Amen to that and I applaud your two car solution
Great journalism!! How about reviewing the stuff out of China (non Tesla). Be interesting to see how far some of their sports cars have come
I said it on the video, and I’ll say it again here. Jason, thanks for that comparison in particular and doing what you do in general.
So jason is just going to belive the tesla mouthpiece that said the brakes overheating were just false alrams??.. even though Misha and other people that tracked the car literally said they felt the brakes fading away?. Also why do they need to lower the power output of the car if the brake alerts were fake? Jason is as biased as it gets. Just go to the daily driving segment of his las video. The bmw m3 also has red light camera assist. It shows up in ur HUD and tells u when the light is green. BMW has surviellance and crash recording cameras that work just like sentry mode in a tesla. Also everything he mentioned about the bmw while they were in it .. HE DIDNT EVEN HAVE APPLE CAR PLAY TURNED ON. It changes the entire layout and oh.. u can change the stereo and or see the maps in ur HEADS UP DISPLAY. Which tesla doesnt have. Jason had no idea what the bmw offered it's almost like he just saw the categories and automatically gave the model 3 the win. Also for the endurance test Jason calls it a tie? But the model 3 had to be set in endurance mode which cuts the power output in order to finish a lap without overheating. Meanwhile the bmw doesnnt. So how is that a tie? Bro, stop listening and start doing ur own research.
@ Ah, yes. Utterly predictable unreasoning hater has arrived.
Liking for the BTS Randy Pobst stories and love. Hoping for an all BTS Pobst pod in the future! 🤞🏼🤞🏼
I did love the tread to tread format and presentation
Thank u Jason and Hagerty Team for real automotive journalism. Can't make everyone happy. Love the Randy and TH M3 braking references / tie in, amazing, really enjoyed that bit, top shelf stuff.
I would watch Jason/Randy all day. Such a fantastic combination of substance and entertainment. (Also, the M3/M3 video vindicated my garage, which contains a Model S and a Porsche 914.)
Underated idea wearing a bright sweater in the black studio
This episode lives RENT free in my head. Well worth the ending.
The steering technique is called shuffle steering - very common in autocross because you often need to turn tighter than the steering ratio allows, and shuffle steering enables you to do so without crossing up your arms.
😊UK ru u46
You also see it in rally/tarmac rally driving. Keeping your hands pinned at 9&3 only works if you have a ratio that allows you to keep your hands on the wheel at all time
Love that giant new Carmudgeon Logo!
I really love my M3P. I have no intention on tracking the car but on a Scopttish back road its a lot of fun. Im sure the M3 would be as well but I have completed 4500 miles so far with a total cost to "fuel" of under $10. I have an EV type tariff, that when its windy I can get free or even negative prices for electricity. Scotland is windy BTW!
Whiel I have an EV and have no intention of going back to ICE, I do love that the M3 exists. I think any car guy should celebrate both of these cars!
Jason demands the clap 👀
34:28 Jeez Derek Clapton even knows the name of jive talking actress from Airplane. Bet he takes the Miura to the weekly high stakes trivia night. 😂❤🏁
I found it funny that the video is aware of its controversy and tries to be as objective as possible and yet people still get upset. It honestly goes to show that cars are truly emotional objects, for better or for worse.
except it's mostly imagined/contrived emotion since almost no one whining has actually driven an M3 and model 3 perf back to back (or electric car at all usually)
I feel like it's pretty easy to accept the BMW losing based off the main design and focus path the company has been taking itself in. It might still be desirable as a brand statement but as a car... "The Ultimate Driving Machine" hasn't been that for years, right down to the toxic af UI
M3 interior usability - as an owner the only thing that is annoying is using seat heating trough the screen and that has been made better on idrive 8.5 by having icons on the screen all the time. Not ideal but almost all other main functions are there with a button.
The only other thing that I do not like is the weight that makes the car too stiff at slower speeds. Other than that it is quite a good one car solution with warranty.
Fake sound can be turned off and after market exhaust fix the sound issue.
I made a carmudgeon subreddit to continue the discussion
You guys are the best. Thanks for another great episode
Jason, so happy for you man, having found one car for it all, finally you are going to save time, money, emotions, worries, wishes, noise... :)
I used to think I was anti EV. Turns out I actually have no interest in any new vehicles and EV's just fell to the bottom of the heap of things I couldn't care less about.
Thankfully Jason's videos are entertaining enough that I still enjoy them regardless of subject matter.
Really enjoy your discussions, and keep doing the comparisons! Would love to see a video of Jason and Derick doing one of their canyon carving days in their beaters and describing and showing what it is that is so enjoyable.
I use Vredestein tyres on my E30 325i Cabrio, too. I bought it with old Vredestein Sport 3 on original BMW 15'' Kreuzspeiche rims. To improve the handling of the car, I put new Vredestein Ultrac on. After a year, I switched to Maxilite 16'' Kreuzspeiche rims and, again, put new 16'' 205/50 R16 87V Vredestein Ultrac FSL tyres on it. I payed about 95 $ per tyre. I have taken the car to backroads, as well as to the Nürburgring GP track and the Nordschleife. The Vredestein tyre is fun to drive.
Thank you for that note on the simulated noise, I wish it made the video because noise is used as a crutch. The only thing that would sway is a manual and that’s not here. Kudos, Jason!
There NEEDS to be a Jason/Randy on track outtakes reel posted at some point. Please! 🥺
Great video, one small disagreement on what you said about fairness to the car. If the question is best sports sedan manuals should be considered as it’s not their fault they are manuals, just like it’s not the teslas fault it is electric. Think it’s crap Cadillac would not give you a car but also think you should have brought in some older cars like bmw e90 m3, Chevy SS, e39 m5, Lexus GSF as buyer have a choice between new or used cars.
I can't believe we made it a whole episode without mentioning a 911 of some sort.
52:56 edging
The Tesla Model 3 Performance is actually significantly quicker than most testers have achieved. The 510 HP rating is based on a cold battery at a lower state of charge. If you heat the battery you can add as much as 80 HP. I ran 5 consecutive 10.8x 1/4 mile passes in my 2024 Model 3 Performance yesterday. I charged to 100% with a cold battery and the max discharge value was only 559 HP. However, I was able to heat the battery in about 15 minutes while I waited in the pit line and the Max Discharge Value went all the way up to 615+ HP. Heating the battery is absolutely critical for getting max performance in the Model 3 Performance. So many people don’t understand that.
Wonder how long before Edmunds U drag figures this out. Hopefully they were trained.
lol 3 seconds a lap slower than 5N in R&T testing. But wouldn’t be a Tesla without a bunch of excuses and caveats and asterisks.
@@Ficon all highly capable cars have their needs to get the most out of them. Teslas are more novel.
@ 5N didn’t need any caveats and preheating to absolutely wipe the floor with Model 3 “Performance” around a short track. Teslas are mechanically the least novel EVs on the market. All of the innovations are coming from Hyundai/Kia, Lucid and Porsche. Tesla is just bad at making cars and they are rapidly losing their first mover advantage.
@ most of the drag races they guys aren’t using the N button correct. I was looking at one until the new M3P came out. The M3P is quicker in a straight line. And WAY cheaper.
I really feel you did your best job in this episode of explaining the "why's" to people like me that strongly dislike ev's. I am starting to feel that a lot of the way companies are making their sports cars by making them so synthetic that they are honestly not far removed from an EV. That wasn't the case a few years ago but it is starting to be that way, especially for the German cars. Until EV is as convenient as an ICE engine though (charging time and locations I'm speaking about) then I would still be sticking with an ICE car but definitely not these newest ones that are so synthetic.
This was such an enjoyable and insightful discussion… thanks guys! Really appreciate it.
I love Jason's journalistic integrity, a lost art in our now "factless world," as DTS says.
1:06 it was the epitomy of irony when an "Elon-esque" narcissist sociopath judges Jason for doing an impartial comparison on a product of a sociopathic narcissist.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
This world is a mad, mad, mad, mad world. (Great movie, watch it)
Once again I am asking you to revisit the Giulia QV in its final year of production.
Since this is my favorite category, I have high expectations :). Also, signed up for drivers club, add that one to the shows ROI.
Thats the reason for going for classic sport cars ❤
You guys saved me 140€! Thank you!
I would have bought four Micheline Alpine 4, but thanks to your advise I ended up going for the wintracks. And for now they feel just as good as the Michelines but for 140€ less
The problem with the Tesla is that it can do maybe a 20 minute HPDE session, but what about the other 3 sessions that day?
Was cool meeting you at radwood!
Hopefully you could drive my MR2 someday and make an opinion on em!
Another great conversation. It’s my time with “friends” that keeps me sane. Please keep it up.
12000 BTUs of cooling is one ton (per hour, but that typically goes without saying). They used to use ice for refrigeration and even sometimes cooling and it was an equivalent rating
I put a set of Vredestein Ultrac Vorti+ tires on my 350Z and it ruined it. Wayyy to much grip in both wet and dry, maintained tons of grip WHILE sideways, they never got too hot during autocross, and highlighted how necessary a suspension and brake upgrade is. So actually, the tires were phenomenal, I was just upset that I couldn't do hilarious drifts at low speed anymore 😂
I have an e92 m3 6mt for the weekends and the new performance for the daily. Love this combo and cheaper than a new m3. Like I said before Jason’s review of the new one made me trade my one year old performance and lose some money but it was totally worth it. I agree with you Jason!!!
Definitely want a desk carmudgeon logo like that
Is there some kind of partner program or affiliate code with Vredestein? No Tire Rack near me, but AAA service centers have them.
That Ford Escort Cosworth looks like a fierce little thing. Love rally cars.
Don't agree with the sentiment toward Motortrend. Not sure who you were talking about, but there are some really good people there and good content that I enjoy. It's also sad when people (film crew etc.) loose their jobs, especially before the holidays.
Jason, has the Golf redeemed itself with the Mk8.5, maybe an Icons for it?
And I think the GR86 deserves a Revelations
The equivalent BRZ has a Revelations episode, an 86 episode would be redundant.
Not that I'm opposed to celebrating the GR86 in any way - I own one and love it.
@@DJ_SayWhaaaat The second episode, wow. Can't believe I missed that one
Alfa Romeo Giulia any day
Hello Jason: Please keep on doing what you are doing. In many different ways, what you do is very, very good.
"who is going to track an M3?"; boy, oh boy, there are just a gazillion of them every day on the Nurburgring, when the track is open for public!, that's why current m3s are so good at lapping tracks, because they can lap the ring safely and at beyond reasonable speeds for the most of us; no tesla driver can say that.
also, you say it was easier to drift, and I don't have any reason to not believe you but, why the car looked so abrupt and wobbly at the begging of the slides and especially at the end(honestly, the tesla looked like it struggled with its mass and suspension), while the bmw looked smooth af and the transitions from slide to drive were absolutely perfect?!
edit. I'd still take a LR model 3 and put the difference to an m3 competition to an even more expensive, faster and more of a fun car than the gr86&miata combo.(cayman gts or the boxter gts, if you fancy the wind blowing through your hair 🤷🏻)
58:40 Oh speaking of internet... Comments under T2T video seems pretty senseable at first glance, until you open up the replies... And oh boy it's as messy as you can imagine
I really want to run these tires! A 255/40R17 and 285/35R18 would allow me to use them on my S2000, RX8, C5 Z06, and MK5 Supra.
I love them on my truck and Honda Fit for their low rolling resistance but great grip as well. The limited sizing though is an issue
Amazing job, Jason. This podcast explained some questions I had after watching the M3 vs Tesla comparison.
Personally, I don't like any of the cars mentioned above.
I do like a Miata and the GT/GR86.
38:25, I do exactly that, pull down with one hand and be ready with the other to pull back. So happy that it is a Randy Probst approved method.
A "Tread to Tread" series would be great. Get your sponsored tires on two cars and compare that performance, then show the Vreds compared to their competitors on the same cars -- or to the OE tires for each car.
I liked it with the lights on so we could see the car
Doubt anyone here needs this but the “Clownshoe” DTS mentioned at 22:30 is a BMW Z3 shooting break. The editor seems to have missed this, a rarity, and there’s no insert as there is for the GTI a minute later.
* M coupe
**brake
I once bought a Farmall with original tires. 1959.
Literally thought you all were saying, "Fred Astaire".
Wonderful episode, just as the M3 vs M3P video was. And what a delight to hear some insights about Randy and his personal developments in front of the camera. Funny, uplifting, loads of information, you guys ROCK! Please don't stop doing car reviews and podcasts. I'm so excited to see how this all evolves.
It’s funny that you guys talked about charms on a Monday
The carbon thing in the center of the seat can be removed for a 5-6 point harness. Not sure how everyone has missed that. The seat is set up for a harness out of the box, if you don't like it get the other seats. I've never even noticed it while driving and I've got a 6 speed.
Question: Why didn't you include the Lucid Air Grand Touring? I understand it's a size class higher, but it would have been similar pricing and it would have been an interesting story element.
Sun International also imported the 1st gen Lotus Elise with the engine from the Integra Type-R. I believe they also imported some earlier Skylines.
Thank you, loved this episode and the G80 M3, M3P comparison. Few comments as a G80 M3 x-drive owner. Price differential is pretty glaring but I'm OK with it. Definitely like the interior way better than the Tesla and the infotainment doesn't bug me.I could probably learn to live with the Model 3 as a daily but it's not luxurious. At the same time, my M3 isn't my daily. Have the regular seats and therefore not annoyed by the CF bucket seats. Steering isn't the best and there is definitely turbo lag down low in the rev range. Power is more than adequate without a tune. Biggest complaint is that it's too fast for the street and is boring at normal speeds. Definitely miss my prior car, an E90 M3 which you could rev out, to the low 8000's, enjoy the sound, and not need to double the speed limit to feel exciting.
Don’t forget resale… Teslas are literally worth nothing after 3-4 years so end of ownership cost may not be that different after resale is factored in.
. Jason is as biased as it gets. Juat go to the daily driving segment of his las video. The bmw m3 also has red light camera assist. It shows up in ur HUD and tells u when the light is green. BMW has surviellance and crash recording cameras that work just like sentry mode in a tesla. Also everything he mentioned about the bmw while they were in it .. HE DIDNT EVEN HAVE APPLE CAR PLAY TURNED ON. It changes the entire layout and oh.. u can change the stereo and or see the maps in ur HEADS UP DISPLAY. Which tesla doesnt have. Jason had no idea what the bmw offered it's almost like he just saw the categories and automatically gave the model 3 the win. Also for the endurance test Jason calls it a tie? But the model 3 had to be set in endurance mode which cuts the power output in order to finish a lap without overheating. Meanwhile the bmw doesnnt. So how is that a tie? Bro, stop listening and start doing ur own research.
@@PEACEOUTXX1 This was a little bit of a weird one for me too. I really enjoy his videos and like the guy. However, his disdain for the M3 shines right through the “journalism” for sure. Some cherry picked things too. Like “who would track their M3?” Literally tons of people… go to most tracks and you’ll many of them there and on a reoccurring basis. The M5 track % factoid is super irrelevant as that’s not the car being discussed but was used in an attempt to make a point. Also, as an enthusiast… which we all are if we are here… Teslas don’t lend themselves to that community… there is nothing you can do with them. Jason himself is a big “modder”… as am I. So for all intents and purposes and also for most true enthusiasts, this Tesla most certainly is not a replacement or substitute for an M3. Everyone has their opinion, and I’m not here to discredit either side. I’ve driven a T Plaid and albeit a stupid fast car it really gets old fast and just turns into a transit appliance.
Oh, that blue Beemer is beautiful.
Cammisa's Ultimate Comparison Test - Cuct' On brand,
I put vredestein hypertrac on my BRZ. So far so good. I also had them on my b7 rs4.
You realize Tesla sent you a ringer, right? When R&T just ran their testing, a heavier 5N demolished M3P by 3 seconds a lap.
Yup. Elon and tesla are all marketing gimmicks and Jason is a shill.
I put Quatracs on my wifes car and while we liked them and they drive well about halfway thru their life they got absurdly noisy. I will be changing them this spring. I put HiTracs on one of my moms cars and so far so good but they only have a few thousand miles on them.
Proof that Jason prefers to argue than have a fun convo. He has never replied to my questions about mk1s and E30s 😢
Huh?
@@TheCarmudgeonShow For years I've commented on IG and here about positive vehicle chat/ questions/ etc regarding cars we both like with no reply... but it seems the way to get Jason to reply is to argue.
@@thetumanshowDo you see him replying to anyone else here in the comments??
Jason hasn't seen Office Space!?!?
I would definitely love a round 2 with the blackwing vs the Model 3
Edmunds U Drag I’m sure will do that. Just hope they properly warm up the battery first. The M3P should beat the Ionic 5N so that should tell you pecking order on their list.
Also sounds like Caddy isn’t interested. 54:30 and same problem 2X the price.
@@runany1 true
Then chose an older C63 or CTS-V because the key it's the V8
no fake sounds needed
so....he talks about an 86 toyota supra turbo, and shows a nissan 300zx turbo. someone done goofed
Happy Thanksgiving everyone..love the TESLA MODEL 3 performance...
I know Motor Trend treated Jason like shit, but I am still surprised and frankly, a bit disappointed by the diss. I just watched Finnegan's video about Roadkill's cancellation and he really looked bummed about it. I will admit I stopped watching a long time ago when the show went behind a paywall, but it was quite entertaining as a show until then. It even made old American iron relevant for a younger audience. If it came back on TH-cam, I'd watch it. Also, say what you will about Freiburger, but he has the same level of encyclopedic knowledge about muscle cars that Derek has on old 911s. Oh, well...
Enjoyed this episode so much; thank you. As you wear an M5 39 hoodie, why no mention of the Ludic Air Pure that often gets compared to that sports sedan icon? When I briefly drove the Lucid GT in Vegas the steering and chassis tuning seemed world's better than the OG Tesla M3 and better than the new M3P. Jason, Derek, or anyone in the crowd; anyone want to compare the M3P and Lucid Air Pure?
Arizonian tires are the discount tires store brand! They are mega cheap and not the most terrible.
I am getting 2025 M3 Comp x with standard seats and brakes. Looks way cooler and can be upgraded to 700 hp. Sex appeal was lost on this review Jason. I have driven both, M3 and Tesla performance and the M3 is so much more engaging and more fun. Tesla would be my choice if just money. $103k out the door AZ. Tesla's are just clones, for the money M3, Audi, Blackwing, AMG etc are just so much more sexy, ask any hot chick which they would pick......would be great content :), as always the best production and reviews! My friends Tesla model 3 was 70k, although with automated driving, so 62k. so 40k more, one Miata after tax.
Always wanted to buy a bmw 128i and use the FCP Euro lifetime break pads and rotors to keep track costs down.
It was a good episode. Really wish that someone besides Tesla made a car that could be put on the same level. Maybe it's a dumb question, by why are we not bringing Lucids and Polestars to these comparisons?
The Lucids are great cars but very expensive. I question whether the Polestars are a good as the Tesla.
@ the Lucids are on par with the M3 in terms of cost (Air Pure), and to my knowledge, no one’s done a group test with a Polestar, but people apparently love driving them.
34:24 Different software and programming - which makes your whole take on that BS
Had no idea US ever had a federalized escorts Cosworth
Apparently there is an HOD Instructor who tracks his Model 3, to the point it’s stripped and caged.
That’s Greg. After market brakes and suspension, seat, and steering wheel.
Hey Vredestein, please bring back the Sportrac 5 in sizes 195/65R14 and 205/55R15, preferably absolutely everywhere. Yes I see the Sprint Classic. I want the Sportrac 5. It is objectively the best performance tire in the world for these 30-40 year old cars and available absolutely nowhere.
I commented this on the comparison video but did you think the TM3P had too soft of suspension? The Throttle house boys said that they did. Ik they had mudflaps that scraped the ground everywhere on their track but what did u think?
I own a new M3P and it doesn't have mud flaps.
As for the suspension, it has new adaptive dampers, while I've yet to track it, on a back road it feels great.
Mud flaps are not stock.
@ they are in the Canadian market. That y I included what the TH boys had to say.
As I was listening to this a 2024 Model 3 Performance was on cars and bids, ended up selling for $48k (including buyers fees).
The Vredestein tyre award gift car was not a Toyota Supra but a Nissan Fairlady Z
The video editor corrected Jason as well boss..
Oof, it was sad to see the Roadkill guys get axed. But they had it coming...They basically tried every muscle car out there lol. Wishful thinking but it would be nice to collab with them if you ever decide to showcase a muscle car. They would probably cut your research time as well.
I think a model 3 and 2 door toy would be a fantastic garage. But being somewhere that I couldnt really enjoy my s2000 or something like a miata without going to the track or on a driving trip, the G series cars are definitely still cars I would wake up for an early morning drive. Maybe its because of the example of g82 I was lucky enough to experience, but it made me want to trade my s550 gt in for a bmw with a 6 speed and inline 6 turbo asap.
The test results really didn't surprise me. They still held to the form so far - the electric car is faster short term, but has to compromise its performance over longer intervals. Tesla's engineers have been able to use clever approaches to reduce the downside but that downside is still linked to the current technology state of the art. (That may change with new technologies.) It probably helped the Tesla that the BMW is a real porker and basically gave up the weight advantage that ICE cars have had in past comparisons.
Given the background of the people who run Lucid (Tesla and Lotus), I'd be interested in seeing what they could do in putting out a Model 3 competitor. But Lucid has several steps to survive as a company.
the new RS3 would be a interesting comparison to the M3P
Looks like the benchmark was dethroned
Fun > speed
How are u going to say that the warnings on the screen for the tesla brakes overheating wasnt real when Misha and many others literally said they felt the brakes fading away ?? Ur really just going to trust the tesla mouthpiece telling u that and not do any research of ur own? That sums up jason comissa.
Bmw is more Mercedes than 1990s BMW. It's best days are gone.
Which car accentuates speed better?
Derek looks like a floating head with hands, perfectly blend in😂😂
Bro your pfp gave me such a nostalgia blast. The hype for Dark Souls 2 was real lol
Only on a terrible monitor
@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 yeah I wrote that 10mins into the episode while watching on a 16yo TV...
THATS WHAT SHE SAID @8:02
THE best cartalk pod out there! Love listening to these.
🚦 Jason is as biased as it gets. Juat go to the daily driving segment of his las video. The bmw m3 also has red light camera assist. It shows up in ur HUD and tells u when the light is green. BMW has surviellance and crash recording cameras that work just like sentry mode in a tesla. Also everything he mentioned about the bmw while they were in it .. HE DIDNT EVEN HAVE APPLE CAR PLAY TURNED ON. It changes the entire layout and oh.. u can change the stereo and or see the maps in ur HEADS UP DISPLAY. Which tesla doesnt have. Jason had no idea what the bmw offered it's almost like he just saw the categories and automatically gave the model 3 the win. Also for the endurance test Jason calls it a tie? But the model 3 had to be set in endurance mode which cuts the power output in order to finish a lap without overheating. Meanwhile the bmw doesnnt. So how is that a tie? Bro, stop listening and start doing ur own research.
Tesla has no f’n turn signals, Jason! Hmmm, come to think of it, that might appeal to BMW drivers. 🤔😅