World of Warcraft: Analyzing Spell queuing/collision
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ส.ค. 2024
- I just wanted to give a behind the scenes on Boss modding and the analyst work I do in general. In videos like this, I'll give insights into my work on Deadly Boss Mods, an addon for world of warcraft. This episode focuses mainly on cooldown collision and spell queuing.
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 - Boss modding is more than just coding, it's analyst work
01:17 - Warcraft Logs is a powerful analyst tool
02:19 - My how to analysis process
05:57 - What is spell queuing?
08:39 - Analyzing spell queuing
12:45 - Auto correction solution and how it works
17:21 - Bosses with a "No cast/cd window"
19:31 - This is why boss mods need constant updates
21:05 - Blizzard isn't perfect, modern bosses can and do break due to cooldown conflicts
23:12 - TL/DR, Boss modding is analyst work.
23:49 - Sometimes, collision and spell queuing cannot be fixed
27:35 - Closing
#gaming #worldofwarcraft #analysis - เกม
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Were there any questions left unanswered by this video? Are there more mechanics you are curious about that you'd like me to dive into in a video? Please reply in comments below what you think.
Thank you for your work. Addon programmers at this level are greatly underappreciated by the community as a whole.
True
Addon programmers ruined the game by automating both work and think flow. One can appreciate the want to optimize things, but it is a game, and at what point does the game start playing you instead of the other way around. Partly it is also Blizzard's fault for allowing this shit. It's like people who say they're going out cycling and then cycle using an electric motor.
@@user-dm7ql4sh3z Yeah games that allow outside add on turn to shit eventually and im with you i do appreciate the work and love of the game and doing it but they have gotten to the point where it is 100% required to compete and that should never ever be the case.
@ExplorationRandomDestination I don’t think games that allow addons is the inherent problem but the base game failing to be good enough without them to point users do need them to fix holes. I do agree blizzard has much to do to make the game a better experience as a whole so addons are once again only providing customization and not solutions in first place. I do a pretty good video on this topic that you may actually like if you look for it. “what i think of addons” or something to that nature.
@@user-dm7ql4sh3z This is always blamed on addons, but it's realistically a scapegoat. Blizzard has been pushing their boss design and iterating on it so that it doesn't become stale content, and you can confirm this by the fact that they are adding mechanics which require split second decisions that are hidden from the standard WoW API. You see the exact same direction in FF where addons are nowhere near as powerful or prevalent. It's just the natural evolution of the game.
You're doing great dude. Don't care people coming discord and saying "your timers wrong, fix it". These people everywhere. Watched the full video, amazing job
It's kind of funny... modders have to deal with the same crap anyone who works in software development does: those who think it's so easy get upset when it's not done on their timeline but they don't make any effort to understand the work involved. Sometimes the seemingly simple features (or in this case the length of a raid being live) can result in complex code/problem solving.
For this kind of work you end up nearly fully reverse engineering systems (boss spell prioritizing in this case)
The level of dedication and hard work required to make mods of this complexity is impossible to explain to someone who haven't done coding before. Its especially impressive since DBM started in TBC, imagine how next level you have to be to figure this stuff out on your own with few, if any, resources online to guide you.
Fascinating video. Going in depth into your process is very insightful.
This type of analysis and interest on game mechanics is what makes me feel like I chose the right field to study. Thanks for reassuring that programming is amazing.
I haven’t played wow in years, but this was a really interesting deep dive into how abilities get queued for bosses and the conflict resolution of those timers.
Also, I know the Valk/defile either/or event very well.
Great job and thanks for putting this out there
Wonderful video. I'm an addon writer myself, and it's surprising how many people I meet that can code, but have a problem knowing how to tackle problems. This video is an excellent demonstration of how to tackle such a problem. More!
thanks, i have a few more videos on diff things to tackle as well. Not as popular or fun as this one though according to youtube algorithm though.
If you like this, you may like the follow up th-cam.com/video/ex83RVUP6qo/w-d-xo.html which goes in depth into more types of spell scripting.
this dude single handedly keeping wow community raiding alive
I can't believe I watched the whole thing. This was an incredibly insightful and inspiring video. Much appreciated!
Appreciate watch. most who end up here are usually by accident but leave wiser so I did something right. :D
dude this content is amazing and thank you so much for the the and effort you put into modding. it's definitely an underappreciated thing you are doing, so thank you again!
Been years since i've stopped playing WoW but yet i'm still grateful for your work ! Thanks
My pleasure!
I discovered this video just in time. I'm planning on writing my first addon and learning LUA for the first time because I have an idea for an addon and I'm a recent graduate starting my job search, so this would be nice to boost my experience! Thank you for the video!
Super cool video man! Hats down for what you are doing.
amazing work mate , congratulations
Damn, need more this kind of content. Good job!
thanks. i have a few more videos similar to it. should check em out. youtube tends to only promote this one but i also covered stuff like analyzing game sounds. spell scripting, game bugs. i’m always looking for ideas of other topics too
Really interesting. I switched to SE in 2020 and worked for 1,5y. Unfortunately due to - life reasons - I had to quit my job. I still like SE and hope one day to be able to apply it daily. Your video gives me a sense of watching a mentor explain how he is debugging, so its both insightful and fun to watch. Keep up the good work!
This explains a lot about funky stuff with boss timers (no matter if dbm/bw/WA timeline) I've experienced the last few years, thanks for the clarification.
this was an amazing video man, you are a real hero
Recently found your channel. Really great insight! Thanks for sharing.
You're welcome, hope you find more on this channel to enjoy
Been using DBM for going on 15 years. It has always been consistently awesome, so thank you! :) In that time I've also ended up having the audio in Mandarin long enough that I can't go back to English, and I don't speak a word ^^;
Viewer retention be damned! I watched the whole thing and now am commenting. Thanks for your contributions!
Thanks. As long as people like em, I'l keep doing em. I'll probably also continue making videos people don't like because I'll always remain true to talking about my interests and passions even if they aren't always best for youtubes algorithms. :D
This video was great 💗
This video was so interesting!
Thanks, I plan to do more videos that don't just talk about more mechanics that I deal with every day that maybe average player isn't as knowledgeable if people like this content.
I used to write that kind of scripts for Private WoW Servers back in the day, it was my first rodeo with programming, great times
this was veryinformative, i would like if you could continue making videos like these :D
@@kroll94 already have 3 of em
this is good info... we got screwed a few times on last tier with the lich king thing you mentioned. it's unfortunate that collision-breaking isn't deterministic, but i agree that this seems to be the best solution.
Yep that issue was in the OG, so it was def still there in classic
The time to diagnostic workspace, THIS is a huge project
Spans 19 years of world of warcraft content. Definitely huge. You saw that 3000+ files huh?
Amazing
When Programming becoming a Game in itself, man i love digging logs like detektiv conan
I don't write addons nor do any programming (related to WoW anyway, even though I'm studying computer science and security) besides basic WA stuff, but I was wondering why Rasha'nan was so inconsistent during testing. This video was helpful. I'm also going to check your other videos on boss encounter analysis and recommend them to my raid team.
I'm a new guy in a top 20 world Persian guild, We're all deeply passionate about raiding, and i find that your content gives a unique perspective on bosses that is very appreciated, even if some videos are more difficult to understand as a layman (this one was alright)
Keep up the great content and thank you!
I'm actually rewriting Rasha'nan right now now but basically it's similar to sennarth (which I discuss in my "annoying encounters" video. But basically for full accuracy rasha'nan needs his timer coded into 7 tables, as opposed to 1 table. every movement needs to be treated as a new phase. I wanted to do that initially but someone convinced me it only made a 1-2 sec difference. but after testing I realized that's not the case, it makes up to a 6 second difference and that's not good enough.
It seems I've stumbled upon Asmongold's wiser older brother.
I certainly have the hairline for it
Underrated comment, fucking howling
legend
So, what is your viewer retention now? :)
Great video! I haven't played WoW for ages. Long ago I was contributing to private wow server code base so your video sparked interest in me and I watched the whole thing ;)
it’s so so. youtube still experimenting to find my right audience.
"... I look for bad pulls. Bad pulls are a gold mine for a boss modder". I will be happy to send you my pulls 😂
dude youre awesome
Thanks
This is the 100 IQ alternative universe asmongold
This is really great! Have you ever considered optimising/automating finding the cds and queues?
i tried once but i’m just no good at using spreadsheets. they always break and i spend more time troubleshooting than coding. i do this by hand slowly with calculator. in fact sometimes it takes me 2 hours to do something manually a spreadsheet would have done in 20 min but i just know my limits and spreadsheets are one of them.
@@mysticalos what about something like linear programming? Do you think there's space for that in this field?
Thx you very much for this video MysticalO and those very clear explainations. Now, I don't understand why they don't have a priority order for each spells susceptible to timer collision ? It would at least make the timer collisions outcomes more predictible and stable isn't it ? Why wouldn't it work ?
they do on some bosses. just not all
I like your funny words magic man
Have you thought about automating the process of finding those ICD's for a given wlogs? Can see it being beneficial to have some service which scraps logs (weekly, daily, idk the cadence you must follow lol) Seems like a lot of the procedure is in finding the max/min of spell batches from a boss so would be nice to just generate a doc with all the deets from the get-go?
scraping would be frowned upon but even just a tampermonkey script would be nice that parsed extra info into extra columns. normally i have one that makes times easier to read but it’s not compatible with safari 18 yet
yess
Nice vid. BTW at 3:38 you are highlighting the event times but your body appears over the top of them so we can't see them
yeah i caught that after and felt dumb. something i have to be more careful of in future
This is basically like reverse engineering on steroids
We had World of Logs back then!
yep i used it then. just didn’t save expressions back then i guess.
Now make the Atramedes tracking not overlap with the run for rings, the fire breath is quite a bit more dangerous!
I also remember a time with vanilla Lich King that sometimes the defile would come before valks and I think we attributed it to him doing something else earlier or later than expected... but we were never right with our predictions if it was going to be an early or late defile we just knew it could happen :D
Well, you could do a course teaching how to make an addon for wow, in version 3.3.5a, I would buy that course if it weren't too expensive.
gross. trying to use old api after having new ones is awful.
how do you test if your mod works?
There is a demo of that going up tomorrow around noon, but I describe it in the tooling video that went up today. it's basically test functions that allow DBM to parse a log of a fight into a realtime emulated boss pull where mod fully executes as if that pull is really happening.
But also, actually doing dungeons and raids and delves as well.:D
do you mean the category recovery time when you talk about spell queuing?
well that'd be the ICD or internal cooldown before boss can cast again. the queuing is just the spells locked out by it, and piling up behind it usually. Often multiple at once so they're queued up in line in some cases.
The reason I call it a global ICD is though is cause often times it's a lockout for ALL spells most of time and not just ones from same category.
@@mysticalos thank you for the explanation!
I wonder if you can use AI to create new scripts based on wclogs
one day maybe. copilot can kinda do stuff now but it has to be pretty spoon fed
13:45 : Comment : "Ugly as shit" Feels you bruh
Just when i thought i had some knowledge on this game,along comes someone who makes you realise you know nothing
There is always more to learn!
I really dislike wow (though I haven't gotten past like 16, couldn't bear it, maybe raids are good, but can't be arsed to slog through.)
but that was a really interesting analysis.
imo from a non wow player pov, queuing timers is good, it's just people being complacent.
like most of the games I play, whatever the boss does next is random, so there's no timer except for like charged abilities and such, but for that we have a tool called a 120 bpm playlist and count 16 beats for an 8s effect.
Wow has a common problem of poor telegraphs. Unlike other games. like FF gets away with no addons for example because of how visual bosses can be. Bosses in wow have been sort of lazy in regard to telegraphs. They've gotten better in raids but in dungeons still iffy.
Best example I can give is say comparing how playable skyrim is without mods, to how playable witcher 3 is without mods. one feels more polished and one feels like it needs mods to fix it up.
You look like Connor McDavid
second person who said that, not sure who that even is though. guess I have to look them up now. EDIT: Eh in beard maybe. but he has way better hairline and diff facial features.
@@mysticalos Put a hockey helmet on and look in the mirror. Then let me know.
you need get a team of tanks and healers to do 10 minute pulls x)
world of warcraft spell queueing code are like the Elder Scrolls--not meant to be read unless by people who intend to go insane
it can certainly cause some insanity
my answer to "we prepared for X and Y happened" is just don't use the timer and git good (i.e. prepare for anything.)
once you know that can happen, pretty much.
Figuring out dev's balancing spreadsheet and reverse engineering every mechanic is how every game should be "played". I just hope he doesn't do it for free.
Well the more that watch here, the more it helps support so there is that :D. Besides that there is ad revenue from mod downloads off curseforge and wago as well.
I'd say patreon was once good but it's now a trivial amount, which is fine. Economy and all. I'd rather be supported by ads from mod downloads and youtube views anyways cause then it's less burden on users and I can continue providing great service and watchable content at same time :)
you look like asmongbald but you are not so bald
oh you just haven't seen the right camera angle yet.
haha lmao
you are making the game shit. Just letting you know dude.
I highly encourage you watch this video th-cam.com/video/G5adq6h1JFI/w-d-xo.html, where i literally describe how blizzard can solve the addon problem, if your debate is "addons ruin the game".
I state many things that should be taken away from addons or done better so players don't have to rely on them as much. That I'm just as passionate as anyone else that the BASE GAME should deliver a better experience.
BUT, as long as the game has shortcomings, I will continue to fill holes that that blizzard creates (not me, blizzard).
if blizzard gives you a car with 3 tires, don't blame the guy putting the 4th tire on car, blame the car for shipping with 3 tires.
i bet you have trouble clearing heroic bosses.
blizzard accomplished that a long, long time ago