Bring back manufacturing in NZ an start making the shit we need to cut down on imports. We have to get to a place where if the world stops again NZ can just keep trucking on as we have the manufacturing we need for our daily lives here in NZ.
lol you must be dreaming, what makes you think that, he's lucky to get into Govenment cause of the other two party, otherwise he be still throwing shjt @ the wall,one hit wonder out at the next election...
Contra-preferentum guarantees that the indigenous version of the interpretation of the TREATY Principle remains entirely and exclusively with TE TANGATA WHENUA the lawful inherent recpents to the inalienable indigenous aboriginal native title that covets AOTEAROA
@@josephjamesrollo9826 think youve fallen for this "racist" bullshit being thumped into the reader/viewer by the legacy press, how the hell did you come to that 'english person' conclusion? And whats your problem with 'english' people? Please explain...
17:00 "special area they're not allowed into" MĀORI WEREN'T ALLOWED INTO MANY AREAS OF LIFE 😢 I grew up in a white only street from 1955, a few Māori lived the next block over.
@JamesLaughlinOfficial Needs to be a binding referendum. Let the people decide. We are a multi cultural country now. The Tribunal has served its purpose, but has overstepped its remit.
This country is at a cross roads. We definitely need a conversation about a number of things. The Treaty and how it is possible to be misinterpretation is beyond me. After 180 odd years when the original Maori leaders certainly. It was very apparent. They knew as to what they were doing and the implications of signing. Document Historical evidence of comments made by Maori chiefs on the day of the signing supports this. Also the Waitangi Tribunal is nearly 50 years old. Long enough to sort (justified) grievances out. However now its getting ridiculous. The claims are off the planet and are unacceptable to the ordinary everyday New Zealander. Its plain separtism that is being pushed by Maori. The Maori seats in parliament is another bone of contention. They were to go when we went MMP. They didn't. We want all the things sorted out by our leaders!!
The primary sources don't support your assertion at all, neither does their later acts of violence or quite public claims it was due to the treaty being broken. It would be interesting if you could name one of these claims that you say are "off the planet", yet my bet is you know nothing of the claims or the processes involved with your previous assertion people committed warfare for... let me check... no reason. It took 20 years for those signatories to go to war claiming the treaty wasn't upheld, yet you try to lie about some of our foundational history... And this fool says you have a "holistic standpoint". This needs a screenshot
YOUR LOT WEREN'T A PART OF OUR LAND WAR'S WITH THE BRITTISH You all came AFTER colonisation when the 1st English Brought sold & stolen MAORI land's (Bank Deed's owed to the bank) THIS IS WHEN THE TREATY & 3RD PRINCIPAL CAME OUT THE CROWN SAW NEW ZEALAND AS A MONEY GEAB (THE TREATY)as time went on DIFFRENT CULTURED WHITE PEOPLE OF NEW ZEALAND WITH NO UNDERSTANDING OF THE TREATY & THINKING THEY WERE THE PEOPLE OF NEW ZEALAND TRYED GENOCIDING US & OUR TREATY WITH THE CROWN
Treaty settlements reports are available online assuming someone doesn’t know how they work is clearly a comment made by someone who has never read a single report
The treaty of Waitangi has been going on for far too long, Lawyers and and Maori activist have been keeping this going . the money that ahs been spend on the Treaty we can not keep going. A lot of this money could of been used to help maori more than has been done by the Treaty . Of all the money that has ben paid out there where has it gone , not to the people that need IT
Joined Atlas Network around 20 years ago but lied about it. This Demolition COAL-ition gubbament is in Co-governance by STEALTH with the Atlas Network est 1981
You're most welcome. I want to provide a platform for people to talk openly and freely. Do you have any suggestions of other people I should invite on the show?
Yea - but he's missing the boat though on most of these sorts of things. Just like his coalition deal allies. I think they should use the 'three strikes & they're out' legislation on themselves before too long. And get it on outta here! What do you think??
The "Principles of the Treaty" are just a way to re-interpret a very simple written document so it becomes fuzzy and easy to add new things that no one in 1940 even envisaged.
David my ancesters came to new zealand 170 years ago. I have 40 first cousins and 37 of them have some Maori ancestry. I left New Zealand after giving the nation the Anathoth brand and entering into a partnership with Howard Patterson to market his A2 milk products. People have come to me and made some astoundingly disturbing statements about the death of Howard, and the death of the owner of South Canrerbury Finance. If what I have been told is true then the country is leading the world in deciept, denigration, immorality and violent deprevation of its ordinary everyday hard-working citizens. It is not the governments that need to change it is the people of New Zealand that need to change. The Greek word Agape does not mean Love it means behaving in a manner that supports the well being of others. This is what is best for New Zealand.
Thank you for tomato relish Mr Owen Pope. Your comment reminds me of: Act justly, love mercy and walk humbly :) I hope the factories are fun. Is the Ananoth factory too noisy to listen to a book? What are you up to now?
Mr Seymour gave a very proper insight into that treaty. 🖐️👏. The Treaty is not needed and never was. NZ has been a great country towards everyone and all. NZ people with their education, minds,, values etc do not need a tribal peace of paper to govern the country. That treaty was then due to specific circumstances and that is it. Finish. All that treatism has brought only problems, wasted money, made the country poorer and dirtier thanks to Maori..sorry, the fact, nothing related to ethnic/triabal origin. And that division Maori and non-Maori... is constanly here, there, in the air. Lets go over it.
A childless sellout to the Atlas Network est 1981, who LIED about his involvement with them🤔 Seymour joined Atlas Network 20 yrs ago, now in Co-governance by STEALTH with this Demolition COAL-ition gubbament 💯
Maori have interpreted, changed, and manipulated the stupid Treaty to suit themselves when making continuous, spurious claims for money and lands and a share of other resources.
Thank you for this thoughtful interview. It confirms that my decision at election time. P.S. My favourite dinosaur is the Stegosaurus with the Thagomizer tail
The key reason Maori iwi leaders signed the treaty was that they wanted the previous 30 years of bloody inter-tribal fighting to stop. To achieve that they needed to acknowledge the authority of the Crown, and live under the rule of law.
@@JamesLaughlinOfficialI disapprove of his STEALTH with the Atlas Network est 1981 He signed up around 20 years ago. Has trained with them. This Demolition COAL-ition gubbament is in Co-governance by STEALTH with the Atlas Network 😮
@@JamesLaughlinOfficial He doesn't even understand basic concepts of our language. He's trying to rewrite the definition of words in te reo without being able to string a sentence together someone else hasn't prepared for him. On multiple occasions he's given wrong "interpretations" to the words mauri and the last time he tried using te reo by himself he said "I am Maori for health purposes". Explain how someone who can't understand sentence structure can be an expert on that language after that point? That quote was from June last year by the way. So can you explain how he "understands" te reo better than people who can actually speak it? Enough to be considered an "expert" in interpretation.
Feeling betrayed is an accurate word to use. I’ve mentally checked out of whatever this country is. It is whatever it is. I certainly don’t feel any cohesion. Apparently the younger people generation understand it all, I don’t.
And were you born here, your ancestors? It's quite straightforward. England and others colonized various lands and stole all they could...THEN LIED TO US ABOUT IT! My future generations deserve better than Seymour and the Atlas Network 😶🤦 Pākehā GG-MA here.
Listen to the people and stop walking over them, like youre wrong and im right.People are copping this attitude more snd more from politicians The MP for disabilities walked past the disabled protestors in the grounds of parliament this week and showed them no courtesy in listening to them. It just said ' youre irrelevent'. It was really unbelievable to see the arrogence of that MP.
"Everyone is equal, except these brown people. Our agreements with them don't mean shit." Rather contradictory but also very enlightening on intentions.
@@tanepukenga1421 yep that's so true. White are privaleged and anyone not white are at the bottom. The perfect apartheid system which is what white people really want when they say we should be equal. Thanks for being honest....
I think David & the Act bring some sort of favourable politics. But at the same time go too far into some priority critical issues. Issues that they do not know enough about & so in the process lose the plot severally. I mean. Look at their positioning amidst all of the controversial nature of political upheaval caused by their tri-coalition. They're a crock really. They're not even realising. But David & Act were bound to flounder on most such issues. And they do. Its the character of their position amongst government bodies. I moreso think about the carnage there's going to be by the end of this term of government. But then I've never really been that happy with most of them. Over say the last 50 or so years even. Every term its the same. Indigenous native pre-eminent supertribal discontent. Racial inequality & iniquity. Lack of adherence to honour of Te Tiriti & its original intentions. Or just pure injustice. Just the 'same old' same old.'
Thanks Ken. I hugely appreciate it. I enjoy interviewing people who have different views, it’s the only way to challenge my own beliefs and blindspots.
Schooled by the Atlas Network for 20 years...expect a practiced delivery. This Demolition COAL-ition gubbament is in Co-governance by STEALTH with the Atlas Network est 1981
David Lange understood that the TOW was forged upon the absolute moral categories of the Bible. He made this clear in an 1980 speech. You don't have to be a Theologian to know that the TOW was not practiced consistent with the absolute moral categories of the Bible. Here's your first problem. Although Maori knowledge of the Bible was limited at the time, Maori already reasoned in absolute terms on meaning and value. A point that Samuel Marsden noted. Here is your second problem which involves deception because the Colonial had the Bible in his possession for centuries. Why sing "God defend New Zealand," when we can't be honest about the TOW? The line in the sand regarding an interpretation are the absolute moral categories of the Bible out from which Western society is built. Furthermore more, being based upon the absolute moral categories of the Bible implies that God owns the Earth and everything in it. A hard pill to swallow in a Postmodern Post-Christian day pissed off with the romance of Modernity. You know that Ka Mate is about a Cheif who saves the life of his enemy only to be killed for doing it? It's no coincidence that it is our greatest export taken to the world by the greatest sporting team in history. Before the Bible reaches the Central Plateau an historic event event unfolds where a Cheif shows us that the high moral ground is not negotiable. Some Maori say that the God of the Bible is a white God. That doesn't make sense because a God limited to a colour is no God at all. The reason why the Bible once lived in the court's is because it represents the Method of Antithesis in human reason process whereby intellectual certainty is guaranteed. Absolute Reasoning Process. Take away the Bible, and the politicians in charge determine the shape of thinking. And, what colour is that?
Yea well there was just one true intent of Te Tiriti. And our tupuna understood that quite clearly. Then that evening the English Version changed that. So it needs be taken back to its original true intent. And interpretation. Married with our tupuna's understanding, which was clear. And clear to the original true intent. Then start all over from there.
@@kaeamatiaha4651So Sir Apirana Ngata’s 1922 book “ The Treaty of Waitangi”….written in the Maori language seems straight forward enough ….. but so much more seems to now becoming additional meaning!
@carolechapman7857 ok. I see what you mean. Sir Apirana spoke Porourangi Hapu-Uretarewa (whaanau-uri). Such was the character of his reo. Te Tiriti is in our reo. We are Moai Hapu Iwi, Te Awa Hapu Iwi & Tahumaakaakanuimatua Hapu Iwi. Those are the reo-a-hapu 'iwi' and reo hapu 'iwi' of Te Tiriti. So overall its Moai. That's how we can interpret Te Tiriti so accurately. And plus we know the heritage of our tupuna from over the c1769A.D to c1840A.D era really well. So if you don't mind me saying, Apirana added reinterpretation to its original intentions & interpretation as well though he never originally intended to. We are among the original hapu 'iwi' of the country. The first inhabitants. From tuakana to teina - Moai Hapu Iwi, Te Awa Hapu Iwi (of whom we are the most senior surviving), Tahumaakaakanuimatua Hapu Iwi (of whom I am tuakana & taiopuru-arikimataura), Mamoe Hapu Iwi (whaanau-uri) and, Moriori Hapu Iwi. People like Apirana had forgotten all about us. People like 'Ngapuhi,' 'Tuhoe' & Awa also. Because we were counted out of the running from 1840 - 1851/52-53. And from 1854-1912 over & past the Land Court era for most provinces & districts. So like I say. Yes. Though agreeable we would be to what you are saying. Your knowledge of the true intentions and original interpretation of Te Tiriti would be somewhat limited still. We have only just been back in the motu over the last 30-40 years. Ae. And not so far from when we were all considered a part of an extinct supertribal people by the Hunn Report in 1960-61. Mauriora, Te Arikimatua Kaaea.
Kohimarama 20 years later reinforced the meaning of the Treaty for the majority who attended. The protection offered by ceding sovereignty was seen as a blessing. Sir Apirana Ngata's book was distributed to every Maori household in NZ in 1922 to explain The Treaty. I like his wry comment about paying taxes!
@heywopics7485 yes. But it is false that interpretation. According to the original kupu in Te Tiriti, and obviously our reo in Te Tiriti, not one iota of rangatiratanga was ceded. But what was brokered via their original intentions via Te Tiriti was shared governance in our lands. So. Apirana was merely interpreting Te Tiriti to the degree his reo could allow for. And that's all. He did not understand that there was no cede of sovereignty. No blessing from the cede of anything but finally the opportunity for shared governance. What our tupuna desired since 1815 in partnership in shared governance via Ko Huiarau and its 50-50 parliament. So our tupuna who signed Te Tiriti saw in the original intentions of Te Tiriti in 1840 finally that opportunity for shared governance to combat settler lawlessness still riot in the country since the 1780s. That was why so many signed Te Tiriti as well. And plus as a result of its original intentions promising what our tupuna had fought long & hard for. That 50-50 share in power in the Ko Huiarau parliament. Now, Crown representatives in the country over 1790-1840 desired 100% of the powerbase. But our tupuna continuously refused that. In that it was certainly not tuturu to cede sovereignty or power of autonomy to any foreign body. So. The long story short. Te Tiriti was clearly a fraud. But we don't see that clearly till evening on the day of the first signing at Waitangi. Where suddenly via the English Version of Te Tiriti original intentions differed extensively and original intentions provided clearly for us via our reo in Te Tiriti were not upheld. A shocking miscarriage of justice. Softened up though extensively via talks around the differences of meaning around 'sovereignty' between our two cultures. Clearly, a mere conundrum. However, that our tupuna continued right through into the land wars to refuse. As we never ever forgot or let go of ever the original intentions of Te Tiriti. Thereby creating the means in the end for war in defence of our lands and our clear understanding of Te Tiriti's original intentions. But most people who knew little of our reo or who were illiterate did not realise the miscarriage of justice. Clearly, that that was carried out in the non-literal translation of the primary nuance of our reo in the first article. The nuance brokered a shared governance in our lands. Not a cede of sovereignty. I am native of that reo. I am Tahumaakaakanuimatua of Te Awa of Moai whose reo was used in Te Tiriti. So. There within the full mis-translation of the entire document is where it raises its ugly reality. But also in the mis-translation of that nuance in article 1. Other huge problems that arose out of all of that skulduggery are that lawlessness of those of the in-coming still have never got to ever fully be shut down in the country. And we never ever got that opportunity for shared governance via our 50-50 Ko Huiarau parliament to the same capacities as our own governance regulations would require. That exactly that had been brokered originally via our kupu via Te Tiriti. Via Te Tiriti in the end - after all that had happened that evening of the first signing - we had been fraudulated of the whole 100% powerbase. Kaati i konei, Te Arikimatua Kaaea.
His audacity. DS is able to articulate the truth and face reprimand. We now live in a very odd era. Most don't listen to understand but instead they apply selective listening to determine what suit their taste or agenda. Or, the social media is filled with tongue-lashing. A tough job ahead for this collab government. Takes a lot of courage to say and do the right thing in the time like this. Good luck 👍 💓
@@Kult365 Jeepers, pay more attention, D.S. is not only continuing with daily lunches for school kids, he's also added pre-schooler's as well, try and keep up mate, then you can bring something worthwhile to the table
I agree there is a misunderstanding regarding The treaty of Waitangi, hence why is it not included in the education curriculum? Lets use our agency and be fully informed. Dr. Ned Fletcher, "The Treaty of Waitangi in Imperial Context" Dame Claudia Orange PHD The Treaty of Waitangi | Te Tiriti o Waitangi - Claudia Orange & Carwyn Jones (BWB Talks) Natalie Coates LLM (Masters of Law) Harvard Bachelor of Law (hons) Bachelor of Arts (hons) Natalie Coates - "175 Years of Interpreting the Treaty of Waitangi - Panel 1: Legal dimensions" Natalie Coates: Treaty principles already a compromise | Q+A 2024 Dr. Samuel Carpenter Dr. Samuel Carpenter, "A New Biography of Henry Williams: Missionary, Peacemaker& Treaty Translator"
Yes - all those sources are important to understanding Te Tiriti. However; none of them provide for us an accurate interpretation. Nor one that involves the native indigenous to the reo of Te Tiriti. Or deals moreso with a manawenua interpretation, which is based on that of the native indigenous to the reo of Te Tiriti. Which we now have in our possession today. They deal too much with a 'Crown' narrative on its interpretation, that, just like Ngata's & the Kohimarama interpretation, are way out, divergent and out on a tangent as they totally support a 'Crown' narrative on it.
The bloke that says 'historicize it' is the better one. Samuel Caroenter I believe. It is not nothing, it is not everything. It is just an impoortant part of our history, and not to be deified into some founding/ constitutional document. It was quickly eclipsed as the colony grew, where Maori rights were well safeguared by Parliamentary Acts, the new sovereign of the country.
It becomes extremely clear once you enter uni and do any NZ history course. The second you get to the Kingitanga movement it makes it clearly obvious who had what intentions. Then the wars.
@@tanepukenga1421 The universities now have to tow the line. The real clarity comes with reading the historical books not the modern day abstract re-interpretation of the past along politically correct lines. Look, I'm not saying Europeans were perfect [who or what is in this world?], but I am saying that it is simplistic and naive to think all the good on one sode and all the evil on the other. That is just bi-gotry.
@@davethewave7248 What is there to interpret about dates and the words clearly stating it was over treaty breaches? There are still legal records of when they went to court BEFORE the violence broke out, stating their arguments. In english no less. That's the value of primary sources. They are direct 1 to 1 evidence of things like intentions. I also don't think it's bigotry to point out that there definitely were bad guys considering one of them gave a official, recorded order to rape women and kill children as a deterrent. Or deny a group of people legal justice due to their race when we STILL have their court evidence in the national library. It's not a "line", it's basic history.
Well I'm not Maori -- all my ancestors on both sides arrived here in or before 1840 -- and I certainly DON'T have tino rangitiritanga. Not only The Crown but also the local council tells me what I can and can't do with my land.
The way out of the mess is not to say that we are all effectively chiefs [which sounds odd], but just to historicize the treaty. It was between the British Crown and chiefs. It safeguarded the chiefs mana over their own tribes while bringing them under the rule of a higher chief [the English Crown], which enabled them to secure the law and order they were desirous of having had such a brutal few decades with inter-tribal fighting. Then not only chiefs, but all Maori living in the land had their rights as English subjects secured in Parliamentary Acts once Parliament became the sovereign of the country. The treaty was soon eclipsed. Actually, straight after with the declaration of sovereignty over the whole country, again later with the central tribes rejecting it leading to the wars, and the establishment of clony self-rule. History moved on... why haven't we? Radical politics. If the lawyers and polticians tried to make of the treaty a founding or constitutional document, whether the Seymourian way or the Tribunal way, it would only turn out very messy.
@@francisheperi4180 I think a general reading needs to be done in order to get the history [the earlier the books, the better], not only on the events but also on how both Europeans and Maoris were thinking at the time... and soon after.
The same people that proudly tick the European box on official forms, because they feel they're from Europe...are the first people to complain about people that tick the Māori box, that are from this land. Then they want equality, as long as it's on their terms.
@@k3630 c'mon mate, which box do you tick? I don't have to know them silly, it's all officially documented as to your ethnicity ..' European/ Māori/Other'... It creates government statistics, where someone who is 90% European/ 10% Māori, is officially a Māori. In affect, eliminating any European involvement in the statistics. Do you acknowledge the discrimination in this system? If not, there will never be equality in this country. Edit: The government thrives on division, ...it creates a bs excuse, for bs jobs, so they can feel their bs righteousness, in helping these people. Keeping a group in the negative statistics achieves this, psychologically, and generationly.
@@JamesLaughlinOfficial You are an Ulsterman James ?? I graduated from the University Of Ulster in 2007. I lived there during and after the troubles in Coleraine. what town you from ?
In regard to the Treaty Principles Bill, in terms of the second clause, and "chiefship" of land", While the intention is correct in terms of a modern society, the interpretation of the Second Clause in the 1840 context is open to claim of inaccuracy and undermines the intention of the Bill . In 1840, the second Clause provided for hapu to retain tino rangatiratanga (full chiefship) over land held in aboriginal title OR they could sell to the Crown, at which point tino rangatiratanga, chiefship and ownership, would pass to the Crown as highest chief and new owner, with the rangatiratanga of land ownership thereafter derived from a Crown title. The first subclause (2a, retention) is qualified by the second, (2b, sale to the Crown) and initiated the means for a process of extended colonisation by purchase. The relativity of Native-derived title to a Crown title was well illustrated in Crown vSymonds in 1847 where the Courts, at Gov Greys instigation, clearly showed that a title derived from pre-emption waiver purchase, effectively still in native title, was inferior to a title derived from a Crown Grant. Over the decades, almost all land in NZ has passed by various means from aboriginal title to Crown derived title. As the tino rangatiratanga of Clause 2a in the Treaty was explicitly tied to aboriginal title, with provision in 2b for gradual transfer by Crown purchase , and as almost all land in nz is now in Crown title, clause 2a now has little relevance, except perhaps to the fragments of land that remain in aboriginal title (such as Sentinel Island off Herne Bay in Auckland). Regardless of how it was acquired after 1840 by the Crown, tino rangatiratanga of land held or assigned under Crown title, has effectively passed to the Crown. All freehold rights of land ownership and management today derive from Crown title, that is, from the rangatiratanga of the Crown. In that sense, any landowner or landowner group, of whatever nationality or creed, holding Crown title to land in NZ, exercises the subordinate rangatiratanga of land ownership in a title held under, and derived from, the supreme rangatiratanga of the Crown. So in a modern sense yes, with only fragmentary exceptions, all NZ citizens equally hold "chiefship" of land under Crown-derived title. As provided for- not by the retention subclause of the second Clause of the Treaty, but by the Crown acquisition subclause. This important difference has to be made clear, or the Tribunal will have a field day with allegations of misrepresentation. As usual the Waitangi Tribunal, excluding non-Maori as always, are fiercely disputing this first, but the rest of us will get our turn at the Select Committee. Bring it on.
They went to war within 20 years, citing into public record MULTIPLE TIMES it was due to the treaty being broken. Their intentions were clear, they started the entire Kingitanga movement over it ffs.
Your right David religious or not we have Gods given rights. Yet this has slowly bern taken off us with the insertion of Admirably Law doing away with our Sovereignty. It is fantastic we have this coming back in nz because it should never have been taken / stolen off us through nefarious methods. If all living men and women have Gods given sovereignty there would be no need to a treaty making sure the Maori are treated fairly because we would all come under Gods Lore, first Lore LOVE God with your whole soul, 2 Lore, Love your neighbour as yourself. Or in other words treat others as you would be treated.
@@gregsmith2164 yes maybe if we bring our heavenly father back into our lives we might actualy make progress keeping his word to the forefront its the only thing we haven't tried showing everyone love and treating everyone as family.
Well how can we? Without the Treaty we have no established nation. And without no declaration either still there would have been no Te Tiriti. So how can we? And if we did, does that mean our nation's establishment should rest then on the status of hapu 'iwi' from the time of the declaration in 1835? And with the status of 'Crown' & settler still as in-coming only, and not established at all yet in the motu?
@@kaeamatiaha4651 ... we managed perfectly well without the Treaty from 1841 (proclamation of the Colony) to the 1970s, (when the Labour Party started pushing this fantasy down everyone's throats.) In fact, if anything, the country prospered and was built during that era.
@Abuamina001 uhm. With all due respect. Te Tiriti has been here since 1840. So. Well before then. It's part of what forged our nation. So we can't erase it to be honest with you. Te Arikimatua Kaaea.
@Abuamina001 and one other thing. In actuality if you knew our heritage better from between 1815-1840 you'd realise that the country was coming into the best state its ever been. Domestically and internationally speaking So that's quite inaccurate to say we bloomed as a nation from 1841-1970s. That's quite incorrect. Race relations were utterly destroyed in that time. Our supertribal peoples became largely extinct. So I disagree. We need Te Tiriti still. And we need it in order firstly to continue to correct the huge trespasses & omissions committed by the New Zealand Crown Corporation over us from since Te Tiriti and changes applied to its interpretation by the in-coming since the first signing. And since the New Zealand Crown Corporation took over its interpretation and application to the country in September of 1840.
@@kaeamatiaha4651 1815 to 1840 .. oh yes, the musket wars. 10 to 20% of all Maori murdered by other Maori ? Yes, that seems a legitimate argument ! No, sorry, the Waitangi Treaty became a legal nullity as soon as the Colony was proclaimed - that was the starting point of our society and state. Period.
Lol. You sound like you want to conveniently get rid of it out of our past. In the mistaken belief that it might make things better. And you should know that as with anything at all, you try to hide the evidence on things not quite brought to justice yet and you create greater more fiercely aggravated problems.
When will the government abolish the mandatory Maori language learning for students, even from kindergarten? As early childhood educators, we are forced to learn Maori and teach our children Maori, which is a complete waste of taxpayers' resources. learning a foreign language should be voluntary rather than forced. The treaty must be scrapped we are a democracy country, everyone is equal. We are all New Zealanders! One of Jabsinder's greatest contribution was to make all New Zealanders hate Maori, she succeeded in turning all New Zealanders into racists who were not racists before.
"learning a foreign language should be voluntary rather than forced"...hmm so maori werent forced to learn english language through the education system?
@@JamesLaughlinOfficial How about giving a pass into forcing Māori kids to learn english first, then complaining they might want to know their own language in their home country. Or does that not count?
David is such a calm clear and thoughtful communicator , the more I see of him the more I like him,, the charter schools do worry me, in theory they sound great , but I believe this also opens the door for substandard education and indoctrination of the vulnerable minds they are supposed to educate under the guise of culture , religion, etc etc by individuals or groups with unless a robust and well resourced oversight body is inplace and that standards are upheld
The treaty was signed when Maori were in the majority and never gave up sovereignty ; Maori are the indigenous people of this land ,but David wants to introduce racism into the debate ! Maori owned 100% of the land before colonization !
Maori owned 100% of the land, true, but some was confiscated, some was gifted, some was sold. I dont know where you get the idea David wants to introduce racism into the debate, have you been listening to Te Pati Maori's propaganda? He wants to make sure people understand what the treaty means. He would like everyone to be treated the same, with dignity and respect for each other.
The treaty writing is clear that Sovereignty was ceded and Kiwi's were all given equal rights so best you check your facts before looking for a way to get free money
@@anthonysherry2628 David literally repeated Brash's line "Iwi vs kiwi" and advocates for raising taxes only on Iwi businesses. I would say forcing people to pay money for being a specific race is pretty damn racist. It also doesn't sound like he's treating "everyone" equal with that proposal.
I feel sorry for David he is someone who has spent his life destroying countries he bottled up Canada's water. Now he needs to make some kiwis fwel like they are less just so he can get them to help him change the treaty for his rich friends personal gain.
Seymour blocked me!! Before the Cannabis Referendum when i pointed out his lies that Cannabis kills. He said it was in the statistics but it was SYNTHETICS however he doubled down and blocked me.
It's so powerful that he's prepared to say he's right and they're wrong to experts in every field who try to tell him he doesn't know what he's talking about. They show him studies and reports, and he says that his feelings are right and their facts are wrong.
I totally understand where you’re coming from. I’m Irish and now a New Zealander and I want to learn more about Te Tiriti. I obviously don’t speak Te Reo but would love to engage more with the treaty. Do you think it’s ok for me to learn and explore and talk about it?
At 12:30 Seymour outlines the unique privileges we enjoy but fails to mention they were birthed out of Christianity. Tolerance of different peoples is also unique to Christianity. Now, William Wilberforce managed to make slave trading illegal in the rest of the world, it was already banned in England in the 13th century, the first country to ban slavery. The British government then leaned on France and then the Ottoman Turks to stop transporting slaves. The Royal Navy spent millions of pounds and lost 2000 sailors stopping the Atlantic slave trade. Again this was done because of the Christian faith in Great Britain, no one else in the world cared. In law this is predicated on the Latin "Imagio Dei" or In the Image of God, meaning human life is sacred as we carry a spark of the Divine: Ergo all men are equal under the law, self determination and our human rights flow on from that. So I find it odd that on the one hand Seymour champions the taking of ones own life in the End of life bill, but is opposed to ending the life of an abhorrent criminal. If life is no longer sacred why oppose capital punishment? If one is going to quote the 6th Commandment then remember it says: "Thou shalt not murder ".
4:43 sorry, this attempt narrative is half truths and bullshit. Historically and still to a degree christians have justified slavery cos its "in the bible". And the muslims have always been up to their necks in slavery, trading, taking, abusing people in their power as slaves. Screw religeon.
If tolerance to different cultures is a feature of Christianity, how do you explain the crusades and burnings????. Actually, Christianity is the least tolerant religion with the exception perhaps of Tikanga
HE IS HUGELY DIVISIVE AND IS SCHOOLED BY PEOPLE WHO WANT OUR RESOURCES 😢 He says a separate parallel health system is wrong... Māori weren't even ALLOWED in our first hospitals nor to run the one they built...LOOK IT UP😮
why tis coalition purchasing armoured vehicles from Aussie to ready for rebellion is how far Tis govt wants to go by the looks of it regardless nz probably already is get much much worse the way tis govt steering it like America definitely tis govt won’t go to the courts to settle the treaty interpretation get found out they wrong???
The treaty of Waitangi was signed by Maori and the crown. Not you and I. Too many people want there own interpretation to suit their own life style. That's where you come in.
@@JamesLaughlinOfficial Winston and Chris Luxon and MPs like Erica Stanford and Shane Jones. You have a good way of getting to the nitty gritty and substance of an issue James, keeping things real, well done and God bless. Good to see your boy being a part of the interview, good stuff.
ive never heard any english man use the word maori as much as this guy . he needs to go.he high lights maori and the name like we are not equal to his english ideas. he dosnt speak for all polotition but himself
Seymour's reading of 'rangatiratanga' is interesting. Chieftainship comes to mean self-determination/ freedom, which makes some sense as chiefs themselves referred to European men of means as rangatira [Polack]. They are not the commoners, or the slaves, but free-moving, self-determining agents of their own action. Context is important, the chiefs were primarily concerned about becoming slaves under the treaty. In using the term 'rangtiratanga' they had their chieftainship/ self-determination/ authority and mana over their tribes protected. Note that there is no abstract application of this term to the race of Maori in general - the treaty is specifically between chiefs and the British Crown. This is why not only does Seymour's argument obviously fail, but also why the treaty can not be used as a founding/ constitutional document for our country as a whole. It is simply a part of our history. The rights of all Maori are ratified under law in the new Parliament that became sovereign over the country.
It's not a particularly challenging interview for Seymour. I get that it was designed that way. At the end I simply felt that Seymour was putting out an almost prepared set of lines. I always end up, after listening to Seymour, with the impression that there's no real depth to him. Given he has this leadership role I have asked myself if he is a leader and the answer is always no. Hmm.... 🤔
Bring back manufacturing in NZ an start making the shit we need to cut down on imports.
We have to get to a place where if the world stops again NZ can just keep trucking on as we have the manufacturing we need for our daily lives here in NZ.
Next Prime Minister right here ! Go David !
lol you must be dreaming, what makes you think that, he's lucky to get into Govenment cause of the other two party, otherwise he be still throwing shjt @ the wall,one hit wonder out at the next election...
We may watch the 6 o’clock news, but whether we believe what they say is another thing.
so why do you watch it
@@simon-ds1vp to keep up with the latest propaganda. You can’t prepare for things you don’t know about.
@simon-ds1vp it's more like Hollywood entertainment nz mainstream news
Moderate belief would be sensible. Non-belief, insanity. Total belief, gullibility.
Exactly true what they say or do are 2 totally different things
Contra-preferentum guarantees that the indigenous version of the interpretation of the TREATY Principle remains entirely and exclusively with TE TANGATA WHENUA the lawful inherent recpents to the inalienable indigenous aboriginal native title that covets AOTEAROA
a hard worker with common sense, deserves his success
Agreed!
It is not the common sense we are weary of my friend, it is the conman sense we should be weary of.
If this is common-sense we are truly doomed, a poll of say 1million opinions would help determine the veracity here
Haha spoken like a English person
@@josephjamesrollo9826 think youve fallen for this "racist" bullshit being thumped into the reader/viewer by the legacy press, how the hell did you come to that 'english person' conclusion?
And whats your problem with 'english' people? Please explain...
17:00 "special area they're not allowed into"
MĀORI WEREN'T ALLOWED INTO MANY AREAS OF LIFE 😢
I grew up in a white only street from 1955, a few Māori lived the next block over.
Wow that must have been terrifying for you 😅
Do you think it's starting to change and evolve?
The 20 historians who are qualified for this
Who are they?
Cool young fellow, great questions.
Thanks Greg. I'll pass it onto Finn - he will be delighted.
It's time to shut down the Waitangi Tribunal and remove any treaty principles referenced in law.
We are all human, all equal.
Do you think its possible to execute that?
@JamesLaughlinOfficial Needs to be a binding referendum. Let the people decide. We are a multi cultural country now. The Tribunal has served its purpose, but has overstepped its remit.
This country is at a cross roads. We definitely need a conversation about a number of things.
The Treaty and how it is possible to be misinterpretation is beyond me. After 180 odd years when the original Maori leaders certainly. It was very apparent. They knew as to what they were doing and the implications of signing.
Document Historical evidence of comments made by Maori chiefs on the day of the signing supports this.
Also the Waitangi Tribunal is nearly 50 years old. Long enough to sort (justified) grievances out. However now its getting ridiculous. The claims are off the planet and are unacceptable to the ordinary everyday New Zealander. Its plain separtism that is being pushed by Maori.
The Maori seats in parliament is another bone of contention. They were to go when we went MMP. They didn't.
We want all the things sorted out by our leaders!!
Thank you for your comment and your appreciation from a holistic standpoint. We all want more connection and dignity for all New Zealanders
The primary sources don't support your assertion at all, neither does their later acts of violence or quite public claims it was due to the treaty being broken.
It would be interesting if you could name one of these claims that you say are "off the planet", yet my bet is you know nothing of the claims or the processes involved with your previous assertion people committed warfare for... let me check... no reason.
It took 20 years for those signatories to go to war claiming the treaty wasn't upheld, yet you try to lie about some of our foundational history... And this fool says you have a "holistic standpoint". This needs a screenshot
YOUR LOT WEREN'T A PART OF OUR LAND WAR'S WITH THE BRITTISH You all came AFTER colonisation when the 1st English Brought sold & stolen MAORI land's (Bank Deed's owed to the bank) THIS IS WHEN THE TREATY & 3RD PRINCIPAL CAME OUT THE CROWN SAW NEW ZEALAND AS A MONEY GEAB (THE TREATY)as time went on DIFFRENT CULTURED WHITE PEOPLE OF NEW ZEALAND WITH NO UNDERSTANDING OF THE TREATY & THINKING THEY WERE THE PEOPLE OF NEW ZEALAND TRYED GENOCIDING US & OUR TREATY WITH THE CROWN
Treaty settlements reports are available online assuming someone doesn’t know how they work is clearly a comment made by someone who has never read a single report
@@DW_Kiwi So THAT mean we lost our equal right's & with our given brittish citizenship as an EQUAL
Time is coming for change.
What kind of change?
Well said common sense talk ,looking forward to seeing what ACT can do from here.
Thanks, I’m glad you found the interview insightful
Mr. seymour is our next PM👏💐
The treaty of Waitangi has been going on for far too long, Lawyers and and Maori activist have been keeping this going . the money that ahs been spend on the Treaty we can not keep going. A lot of this money could of been used to help maori more than has been done by the Treaty . Of all the money that has ben paid out there where has it gone , not to the people that need IT
That’s sad to hear. I hope it can be resolved soon
David, tūtae whakaaro!
What does that mean?
Good on you James! Much appreciated
Thanks a million, that means a lot. What did you most enjoy about it?
My wife always asks me way am I yelling at the T V and I till her the bloody six o'clock news is back on, and that all the woke nonsense is back on.
Id prefer to read a book or watch non mainstream
Light to future
What do you mean?
"you don't need consultants to do less"...UNLESS it's the $2,000 a day crony consultants 🤦
Thanks Cheryl.
Snap election get rid of the two and a half man circus
What is required to have a snap election?
The previous government didn’t give their rich mates 2.9 billion
What did they do?
LEGEND thanks for giving a great man a platform 🎉
Joined Atlas Network around 20 years ago but lied about it.
This Demolition COAL-ition gubbament is in Co-governance by STEALTH with the Atlas Network est 1981
You're most welcome. I want to provide a platform for people to talk openly and freely. Do you have any suggestions of other people I should invite on the show?
Good on David at least he has the courage to stand up for what he believes. We are one people one country.
Yea - but he's missing the boat though on most of these sorts of things. Just like his coalition deal allies.
I think they should use the 'three strikes & they're out' legislation on themselves before too long. And get it on outta here!
What do you think??
One cult
Hitler also had the "courage" to stand up for what he believed in 🤔
Standing up for racism isn't exactly a "good thing" even if you believe in supremacy.
On Seymour's terms...Mining and Oil and Gas want our resources and Atlas Network est 1981 is helping out.
The "Principles of the Treaty" are just a way to re-interpret a very simple written document so it becomes fuzzy and easy to add new things that no one in 1940 even envisaged.
What do you think we can do to move forward?
David my ancesters came to new zealand 170 years ago. I have 40 first cousins and 37 of them have some Maori ancestry. I left New Zealand after giving the nation the Anathoth brand and entering into a partnership with Howard Patterson to market his A2 milk products. People have come to me and made some astoundingly disturbing statements about the death of Howard, and the death of the owner of South Canrerbury Finance. If what I have been told is true then the country is leading the world in deciept, denigration, immorality and violent deprevation of its ordinary everyday hard-working citizens.
It is not the governments that need to change it is the people of New Zealand that need to change. The Greek word Agape does not mean Love it means behaving in a manner that supports the well being of others.
This is what is best for New Zealand.
Thank you for tomato relish Mr Owen Pope. Your comment reminds me of: Act justly, love mercy and walk humbly :)
I hope the factories are fun. Is the Ananoth factory too noisy to listen to a book?
What are you up to now?
Have a cup of white milk
@@eugenerewi9076As opposed to cream milk?
@@eugenerewi9076 barely vailed racism , did the truth hurt
I believe it was your wife who actually gave NZ the Anathoth product.
Mr Seymour gave a very proper insight into that treaty. 🖐️👏. The Treaty is not needed and never was. NZ has been a great country towards everyone and all. NZ people with their education, minds,, values etc do not need a tribal peace of paper to govern the country. That treaty was then due to specific circumstances and that is it. Finish. All that treatism has brought only problems, wasted money, made the country poorer and dirtier thanks to Maori..sorry, the fact, nothing related to ethnic/triabal origin. And that division Maori and non-Maori... is constanly here, there, in the air. Lets go over it.
The treaty has been used by a few select people.
What do you mean?
Consultants...these people SQUEALED AND SCREAMED about consultants while they were in opposition 🤷🤦🙆
Do you think they have a ton of consultants now?
Great Job David whole ❤️ heartedly agree with everything you are focused on
A childless sellout to the Atlas Network est 1981, who LIED about his involvement with them🤔
Seymour joined Atlas Network 20 yrs ago, now in Co-governance by STEALTH with this Demolition COAL-ition gubbament 💯
Thanks Barbara
Maori have interpreted, changed, and manipulated the stupid Treaty to suit themselves when making continuous, spurious claims for money and lands and a share of other resources.
Thanks for your insights and viewpoint William. What solutions do you think are possible?
Thank you for this thoughtful interview. It confirms that my decision at election time.
P.S. My favourite dinosaur is the Stegosaurus with the Thagomizer tail
😂 🦖 So good! And you’re so welcome - I enjoy interviewing people with differing views
ACTs David Seymour joined the Atlas Network est 1981, over 20 years ago. Now in Co-governance by STEALTH with this Demolition COAL-ition gubbament 💯
The key reason Maori iwi leaders signed the treaty was that they wanted the previous 30 years of bloody inter-tribal fighting to stop. To achieve that they needed to acknowledge the authority of the Crown, and live under the rule of law.
I don't want this apartheid we are experiencing to continue sort out the treaty
Te Tiriti is not the issue it is the people pushing apartheid and their elitist beliefs and I am not referring to Maori by the way.
@@suniap3091 Indeed. Apartheid is oppression of another people. The Treaty does not show that.
National is the worst leader we have ever had act also
Maori don't either but you force it on us
Most of us dont!
David Seymour is a breath of fresh air.
Lol. Ah. Yea. 'Cough' 'cough' 'cough' ahmmm 'choke' 'choke' 'choke' - uhm...really???
You spelt halotosis wrong
Many would agree!! What do you most like about him?
yes sir, totally agree with you there..
@@JamesLaughlinOfficialI disapprove of his STEALTH with the Atlas Network est 1981
He signed up around 20 years ago.
Has trained with them.
This Demolition COAL-ition gubbament is in Co-governance by STEALTH with the Atlas Network 😮
Don't give up David.
It needs to change.
We are 1 people. We are all equal.
Promoting a cult in this country should be illegal.
Our language doesn’t need changing that is what his false interpretation is doing
Where do you think we need to take it?
Joseph, what do you mean?
Agree.
For someone who does not speak or understand the language or the culture,purports to be a expert on treaty matters bloody goat
What doesn’t he understand about it in your opinion?
@@JamesLaughlinOfficial He doesn't even understand basic concepts of our language. He's trying to rewrite the definition of words in te reo without being able to string a sentence together someone else hasn't prepared for him. On multiple occasions he's given wrong "interpretations" to the words mauri and the last time he tried using te reo by himself he said "I am Maori for health purposes".
Explain how someone who can't understand sentence structure can be an expert on that language after that point? That quote was from June last year by the way. So can you explain how he "understands" te reo better than people who can actually speak it? Enough to be considered an "expert" in interpretation.
@@JamesLaughlinOfficial😢
Feeling betrayed is an accurate word to use. I’ve mentally checked out of whatever this country is. It is whatever it is. I certainly don’t feel any cohesion. Apparently the younger people generation understand it all, I don’t.
And were you born here, your ancestors?
It's quite straightforward.
England and others colonized various lands and stole all they could...THEN LIED TO US ABOUT IT!
My future generations deserve better than Seymour and the Atlas Network 😶🤦
Pākehā GG-MA here.
A REFERENDUM HIS WAY IS NOT DEMOCRACY BUT RULE BY BRUTE FORCE. DEMOCRACY IS INCLUSIVE 🤷
Thanks Cheryl.
Your doing a great job David.
Many would wholeheartedly agree.
Listen to the people and stop walking over them, like youre wrong and im right.People are copping this attitude more snd more from politicians The MP for disabilities walked past the disabled protestors in the grounds of parliament this week and showed them no courtesy in listening to them. It just said ' youre irrelevent'. It was really unbelievable to see the arrogence of that MP.
That all ignored the protesters in 2022 except Winston
Thanks Justine. What do you think we can do to unite this country of ours?
The treaty must be scrapped we are a democracy every one is equal,no ifs of buts.
✈️👋🏼👋🏼
Yeah right, another delusional person who believes in faries
I don't think so, would lead to chaos.
"Everyone is equal, except these brown people. Our agreements with them don't mean shit."
Rather contradictory but also very enlightening on intentions.
@@tanepukenga1421 yep that's so true. White are privaleged and anyone not white are at the bottom. The perfect apartheid system which is what white people really want when they say we should be equal. Thanks for being honest....
David and the Act party are so important for New Zealand in the context of the last 6 years of the previous government.
I'm sure your rolling it now.
I think David & the Act bring some sort of favourable politics. But at the same time go too far into some priority critical issues. Issues that they do not know enough about & so in the process lose the plot severally.
I mean. Look at their positioning amidst all of the controversial nature of political upheaval caused by their tri-coalition.
They're a crock really.
They're not even realising. But David & Act were bound to flounder on most such issues.
And they do. Its the character of their position amongst government bodies.
I moreso think about the carnage there's going to be by the end of this term of government.
But then I've never really been that happy with most of them. Over say the last 50 or so years even. Every term its the same.
Indigenous native pre-eminent supertribal discontent. Racial inequality & iniquity. Lack of adherence to honour of Te Tiriti & its original intentions. Or just pure injustice.
Just the 'same old' same old.'
Very, very good interview. At last a grown up view well expressed!
Thanks Ken. I hugely appreciate it. I enjoy interviewing people who have different views, it’s the only way to challenge my own beliefs and blindspots.
Schooled by the Atlas Network for 20 years...expect a practiced delivery.
This Demolition COAL-ition gubbament is in Co-governance by STEALTH with the Atlas Network est 1981
That's all it is. Just a false view
David Lange understood that the TOW was forged upon the absolute moral categories of the Bible. He made this clear in an 1980 speech. You don't have to be a Theologian to know that the TOW was not practiced consistent with the absolute moral categories of the Bible. Here's your first problem. Although Maori knowledge of the Bible was limited at the time, Maori already reasoned in absolute terms on meaning and value. A point that Samuel Marsden noted. Here is your second problem which involves deception because the Colonial had the Bible in his possession for centuries. Why sing "God defend New Zealand," when we can't be honest about the TOW? The line in the sand regarding an interpretation are the absolute moral categories of the Bible out from which Western society is built. Furthermore more, being based upon the absolute moral categories of the Bible implies that God owns the Earth and everything in it. A hard pill to swallow in a Postmodern Post-Christian day pissed off with the romance of Modernity. You know that Ka Mate is about a Cheif who saves the life of his enemy only to be killed for doing it? It's no coincidence that it is our greatest export taken to the world by the greatest sporting team in history. Before the Bible reaches the Central Plateau an historic event event unfolds where a Cheif shows us that the high moral ground is not negotiable. Some Maori say that the God of the Bible is a white God. That doesn't make sense because a God limited to a colour is no God at all. The reason why the Bible once lived in the court's is because it represents the Method of Antithesis in human reason process whereby intellectual certainty is guaranteed. Absolute Reasoning Process. Take away the Bible, and the politicians in charge determine the shape of thinking. And, what colour is that?
Agree except Haka is a Hymn written by a living Chief about becoming a Christian going from death to life
It would be so good to clear up the true intent of the treaty, from the never ending interpretations that seem to just keep on coming!
Yea well there was just one true intent of Te Tiriti. And our tupuna understood that quite clearly. Then that evening the English Version changed that. So it needs be taken back to its original true intent. And interpretation. Married with our tupuna's understanding, which was clear. And clear to the original true intent. Then start all over from there.
@@kaeamatiaha4651So Sir Apirana Ngata’s 1922 book “ The Treaty of Waitangi”….written in the Maori language seems straight forward enough ….. but so much more seems to now becoming additional meaning!
@carolechapman7857 ok. I see what you mean. Sir Apirana spoke Porourangi Hapu-Uretarewa (whaanau-uri). Such was the character of his reo. Te Tiriti is in our reo. We are Moai Hapu Iwi, Te Awa Hapu Iwi & Tahumaakaakanuimatua Hapu Iwi. Those are the reo-a-hapu 'iwi' and reo hapu 'iwi' of Te Tiriti. So overall its Moai. That's how we can interpret Te Tiriti so accurately. And plus we know the heritage of our tupuna from over the c1769A.D to c1840A.D era really well. So if you don't mind me saying, Apirana added reinterpretation to its original intentions & interpretation as well though he never originally intended to.
We are among the original hapu 'iwi' of the country. The first inhabitants. From tuakana to teina - Moai Hapu Iwi, Te Awa Hapu Iwi (of whom we are the most senior surviving), Tahumaakaakanuimatua Hapu Iwi (of whom I am tuakana & taiopuru-arikimataura), Mamoe Hapu Iwi (whaanau-uri) and, Moriori Hapu Iwi.
People like Apirana had forgotten all about us. People like 'Ngapuhi,' 'Tuhoe' & Awa also. Because we were counted out of the running from 1840 - 1851/52-53. And from 1854-1912 over & past the Land Court era for most provinces & districts.
So like I say. Yes. Though agreeable we would be to what you are saying. Your knowledge of the true intentions and original interpretation of Te Tiriti would be somewhat limited still.
We have only just been back in the motu over the last 30-40 years.
Ae. And not so far from when we were all considered a part of an extinct supertribal people by the Hunn Report in 1960-61.
Mauriora,
Te Arikimatua Kaaea.
Kohimarama 20 years later reinforced the meaning of the Treaty for the majority who attended. The protection offered by ceding sovereignty was seen as a blessing. Sir Apirana Ngata's book was distributed to every Maori household in NZ in 1922 to explain The Treaty. I like his wry comment about paying taxes!
@heywopics7485 yes. But it is false that interpretation. According to the original kupu in Te Tiriti, and obviously our reo in Te Tiriti, not one iota of rangatiratanga was ceded. But what was brokered via their original intentions via Te Tiriti was shared governance in our lands. So. Apirana was merely interpreting Te Tiriti to the degree his reo could allow for. And that's all.
He did not understand that there was no cede of sovereignty. No blessing from the cede of anything but finally the opportunity for shared governance. What our tupuna desired since 1815 in partnership in shared governance via Ko Huiarau and its 50-50 parliament.
So our tupuna who signed Te Tiriti saw in the original intentions of Te Tiriti in 1840 finally that opportunity for shared governance to combat settler lawlessness still riot in the country since the 1780s. That was why so many signed Te Tiriti as well.
And plus as a result of its original intentions promising what our tupuna had fought long & hard for. That 50-50 share in power in the Ko Huiarau parliament.
Now, Crown representatives in the country over 1790-1840 desired 100% of the powerbase. But our tupuna continuously refused that. In that it was certainly not tuturu to cede sovereignty or power of autonomy to any foreign body.
So. The long story short. Te Tiriti was clearly a fraud.
But we don't see that clearly till evening on the day of the first signing at Waitangi. Where suddenly via the English Version of Te Tiriti original intentions differed extensively and original intentions provided clearly for us via our reo in Te Tiriti were not upheld. A shocking miscarriage of justice. Softened up though extensively via talks around the differences of meaning around 'sovereignty' between our two cultures. Clearly, a mere conundrum. However, that our tupuna continued right through into the land wars to refuse. As we never ever forgot or let go of ever the original intentions of Te Tiriti. Thereby creating the means in the end for war in defence of our lands and our clear understanding of Te Tiriti's original intentions.
But most people who knew little of our reo or who were illiterate did not realise the miscarriage of justice. Clearly, that that was carried out in the non-literal translation of the primary nuance of our reo in the first article.
The nuance brokered a shared governance in our lands. Not a cede of sovereignty.
I am native of that reo. I am Tahumaakaakanuimatua of Te Awa of Moai whose reo was used in Te Tiriti. So. There within the full mis-translation of the entire document is where it raises its ugly reality. But also in the mis-translation of that nuance in article 1.
Other huge problems that arose out of all of that skulduggery are that lawlessness of those of the in-coming still have never got to ever fully be shut down in the country. And we never ever got that opportunity for shared governance via our 50-50 Ko Huiarau parliament to the same capacities as our own governance regulations would require. That exactly that had been brokered originally via our kupu via Te Tiriti.
Via Te Tiriti in the end - after all that had happened that evening of the first signing - we had been fraudulated of the whole 100% powerbase.
Kaati i konei,
Te Arikimatua Kaaea.
Thank you David. Great interview - very informative and fun!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks so much
I like David Seymour. A straightforward no bull politician. Keep going!
It's all straight bull sh..t
I’ve sat with him now on a few occasions and he is very easy to connect with. What do you most like about him?
His audacity. DS is able to articulate the truth and face reprimand. We now live in a very odd era. Most don't listen to understand but instead they apply selective listening to determine what suit their taste or agenda. Or, the social media is filled with tongue-lashing. A tough job ahead for this collab government. Takes a lot of courage to say and do the right thing in the time like this. Good luck 👍 💓
I like that he takes lunch off children, it's so manly
@@Kult365 Jeepers, pay more attention, D.S. is not only continuing with daily lunches for school kids, he's also added pre-schooler's as well, try and keep up mate, then you can bring something worthwhile to the table
I agree there is a misunderstanding regarding The treaty of Waitangi, hence why is it not included in the education curriculum? Lets use our agency and be fully informed.
Dr. Ned Fletcher,
"The Treaty of Waitangi in Imperial Context"
Dame Claudia Orange PHD
The Treaty of Waitangi | Te Tiriti o Waitangi - Claudia Orange & Carwyn Jones (BWB Talks)
Natalie Coates LLM (Masters of Law) Harvard Bachelor of Law (hons) Bachelor of Arts (hons)
Natalie Coates - "175 Years of Interpreting the Treaty of Waitangi - Panel 1: Legal dimensions"
Natalie Coates: Treaty principles already a compromise | Q+A 2024
Dr. Samuel Carpenter
Dr. Samuel Carpenter, "A New Biography of Henry Williams: Missionary, Peacemaker& Treaty Translator"
Yes - all those sources are important to understanding Te Tiriti. However; none of them provide for us an accurate interpretation. Nor one that involves the native indigenous to the reo of Te Tiriti. Or deals moreso with a manawenua interpretation, which is based on that of the native indigenous to the reo of Te Tiriti. Which we now have in our possession today. They deal too much with a 'Crown' narrative on its interpretation, that, just like Ngata's & the Kohimarama interpretation, are way out, divergent and out on a tangent as they totally support a 'Crown' narrative on it.
The bloke that says 'historicize it' is the better one. Samuel Caroenter I believe. It is not nothing, it is not everything. It is just an impoortant part of our history, and not to be deified into some founding/ constitutional document. It was quickly eclipsed as the colony grew, where Maori rights were well safeguared by Parliamentary Acts, the new sovereign of the country.
It becomes extremely clear once you enter uni and do any NZ history course. The second you get to the Kingitanga movement it makes it clearly obvious who had what intentions. Then the wars.
@@tanepukenga1421 The universities now have to tow the line. The real clarity comes with reading the historical books not the modern day abstract re-interpretation of the past along politically correct lines. Look, I'm not saying Europeans were perfect [who or what is in this world?], but I am saying that it is simplistic and naive to think all the good on one sode and all the evil on the other. That is just bi-gotry.
@@davethewave7248 What is there to interpret about dates and the words clearly stating it was over treaty breaches? There are still legal records of when they went to court BEFORE the violence broke out, stating their arguments. In english no less.
That's the value of primary sources. They are direct 1 to 1 evidence of things like intentions. I also don't think it's bigotry to point out that there definitely were bad guys considering one of them gave a official, recorded order to rape women and kill children as a deterrent. Or deny a group of people legal justice due to their race when we STILL have their court evidence in the national library.
It's not a "line", it's basic history.
Well I'm not Maori -- all my ancestors on both sides arrived here in or before 1840 -- and I certainly DON'T have tino rangitiritanga. Not only The Crown but also the local council tells me what I can and can't do with my land.
The way out of the mess is not to say that we are all effectively chiefs [which sounds odd], but just to historicize the treaty. It was between the British Crown and chiefs. It safeguarded the chiefs mana over their own tribes while bringing them under the rule of a higher chief [the English Crown], which enabled them to secure the law and order they were desirous of having had such a brutal few decades with inter-tribal fighting. Then not only chiefs, but all Maori living in the land had their rights as English subjects secured in Parliamentary Acts once Parliament became the sovereign of the country. The treaty was soon eclipsed. Actually, straight after with the declaration of sovereignty over the whole country, again later with the central tribes rejecting it leading to the wars, and the establishment of clony self-rule. History moved on... why haven't we? Radical politics. If the lawyers and polticians tried to make of the treaty a founding or constitutional document, whether the Seymourian way or the Tribunal way, it would only turn out very messy.
🛑 STOP LYING 🤥 INSTIGATOR 😡😶
The Crown agents were CORRUPT! They deceived and stole from Māori 😡
Your viewpoints seem balanced. Looking for guidance to rightly understand this stuff... start with Ngata? And Seymour? What does Jones say?
@@francisheperi4180 I think a general reading needs to be done in order to get the history [the earlier the books, the better], not only on the events but also on how both Europeans and Maoris were thinking at the time... and soon after.
There will be plenty more worries concerning David. More debate
Joseph, what are the worries you're thinking of?
Get rid of the treaty
Well, you only have racism to offer
Yeah be good to move on the past is the past dwell on the past you live in the past no progress for all nzdrs
The same people that proudly tick the European box on official forms, because they feel they're from Europe...are the first people to complain about people that tick the Māori box, that are from this land.
Then they want equality, as long as it's on their terms.
@@user-bw5nc how stupid. You know all those people?? Lol
@@k3630 c'mon mate, which box do you tick?
I don't have to know them silly, it's all officially documented as to your ethnicity ..' European/ Māori/Other'...
It creates government statistics, where someone who is 90% European/ 10% Māori, is officially a Māori.
In affect, eliminating any European involvement in the statistics.
Do you acknowledge the discrimination in this system?
If not, there will never be equality in this country.
Edit: The government thrives on division, ...it creates a bs excuse, for bs jobs, so they can feel their bs righteousness, in helping these people.
Keeping a group in the negative statistics achieves this, psychologically, and generationly.
Well spoken Finn
I’ll pass it onto the little lad. Thanks so much
@@JamesLaughlinOfficial You are an Ulsterman James ?? I graduated from the University Of Ulster in 2007. I lived there during and after the troubles in Coleraine. what town you from ?
The T Rex bit was definately the highlight of that interview. 😂
😂 We’ve all got to have a bit of fun in life!!
In regard to the Treaty Principles Bill, in terms of the second clause, and "chiefship" of land",
While the intention is correct in terms of a modern society, the interpretation of the Second Clause in the 1840 context is open to claim of inaccuracy and undermines the intention of the Bill .
In 1840, the second Clause provided for hapu to retain tino rangatiratanga (full chiefship) over land held in aboriginal title
OR they could sell to the Crown, at which point tino rangatiratanga, chiefship and ownership, would pass to the Crown as highest chief and new owner, with the rangatiratanga of land ownership thereafter derived from a Crown title.
The first subclause (2a, retention) is qualified by the second, (2b, sale to the Crown) and initiated the means for a process of extended colonisation by purchase.
The relativity of Native-derived title to a Crown title was well illustrated in Crown vSymonds in 1847 where the Courts, at Gov Greys instigation, clearly showed that a title derived from pre-emption waiver purchase, effectively still in native title, was inferior to a title derived from a Crown Grant.
Over the decades, almost all land in NZ has passed by various means from aboriginal title to Crown derived title. As the tino rangatiratanga of Clause 2a in the Treaty was explicitly tied to aboriginal title, with provision in 2b for gradual transfer by Crown purchase , and as almost all land in nz is now in Crown title, clause 2a now has little relevance, except perhaps to the fragments of land that remain in aboriginal title (such as Sentinel Island off Herne Bay in Auckland).
Regardless of how it was acquired after 1840 by the Crown, tino rangatiratanga of land held or assigned under Crown title, has effectively passed to the Crown.
All freehold rights of land ownership and management today derive from Crown title, that is, from the rangatiratanga of the Crown. In that sense, any landowner or landowner group, of whatever nationality or creed, holding Crown title to land in NZ, exercises the subordinate rangatiratanga of land ownership in a title held under, and derived from, the supreme rangatiratanga of the Crown.
So in a modern sense yes, with only fragmentary exceptions, all NZ citizens equally hold "chiefship" of land under Crown-derived title.
As provided for- not by the retention subclause of the second Clause of the Treaty, but by the Crown acquisition subclause.
This important difference has to be made clear, or the Tribunal will have a field day with allegations of misrepresentation.
As usual the Waitangi Tribunal, excluding non-Maori as always, are fiercely disputing this first, but the rest of us will get our turn at the Select Committee.
Bring it on.
They went to war within 20 years, citing into public record MULTIPLE TIMES it was due to the treaty being broken. Their intentions were clear, they started the entire Kingitanga movement over it ffs.
Chieftainship couldn't provide law and order or land transactions so not exactly a seperate Independent group with an HQ
@@StGammon77 Yes they could. Don't lie about history mate. The NZ company is as well known here as the East India company
Your right David religious or not we have Gods given rights. Yet this has slowly bern taken off us with the insertion of Admirably Law doing away with our Sovereignty. It is fantastic we have this coming back in nz because it should never have been taken / stolen off us through nefarious methods. If all living men and women have Gods given sovereignty there would be no need to a treaty making sure the Maori are treated fairly because we would all come under Gods Lore, first Lore LOVE God with your whole soul, 2 Lore, Love your neighbour as yourself. Or in other words treat others as you would be treated.
god god god, thats all you are saying
@@gregsmith2164 yes maybe if we bring our heavenly father back into our lives we might actualy make progress keeping his word to the forefront its the only thing we haven't tried showing everyone love and treating everyone as family.
great interview. i like david seymour more and more. and finn was a delight. terrific !
Thanks for your kind feedback - it seems that TH-cam attracts a lot of keyboard warriors. It’s lovely to get something positive!!
Yea - misinterpreted by you and your coalition partners!
David calls winston an old man with no respect in the past. How does he feel now about winston?
Should I ask him?
@@JamesLaughlinOfficial ok
930 min in, the solution is to give us politicians another pay rise when the New Zealand people economy are struggling.
Did they get a pay rise again??
@@JamesLaughlinOfficial yes decided by guess who?…. The politicians
Communicator of the decade
Atlas! Atlas! Atlas! Hiss and Boo!
Keep it simple - scrap the Treaty, move on.
Well how can we? Without the Treaty we have no established nation. And without no declaration either still there would have been no Te Tiriti. So how can we?
And if we did, does that mean our nation's establishment should rest then on the status of hapu 'iwi' from the time of the declaration in 1835? And with the status of 'Crown' & settler still as in-coming only, and not established at all yet in the motu?
@@kaeamatiaha4651 ... we managed perfectly well without the Treaty from 1841 (proclamation of the Colony) to the 1970s, (when the Labour Party started pushing this fantasy down everyone's throats.) In fact, if anything, the country prospered and was built during that era.
@Abuamina001 uhm. With all due respect. Te Tiriti has been here since 1840. So. Well before then.
It's part of what forged our nation. So we can't erase it to be honest with you.
Te Arikimatua Kaaea.
@Abuamina001 and one other thing. In actuality if you knew our heritage better from between 1815-1840 you'd realise that the country was coming into the best state its ever been. Domestically and internationally speaking
So that's quite inaccurate to say we bloomed as a nation from 1841-1970s. That's quite incorrect.
Race relations were utterly destroyed in that time.
Our supertribal peoples became largely extinct.
So I disagree. We need Te Tiriti still. And we need it in order firstly to continue to correct the huge trespasses & omissions committed by the New Zealand Crown Corporation over us from since Te Tiriti and changes applied to its interpretation by the in-coming since the first signing. And since the New Zealand Crown Corporation took over its interpretation and application to the country in September of 1840.
@@kaeamatiaha4651 1815 to 1840 .. oh yes, the musket wars. 10 to 20% of all Maori murdered by other Maori ? Yes, that seems a legitimate argument ! No, sorry, the Waitangi Treaty became a legal nullity as soon as the Colony was proclaimed - that was the starting point of our society and state. Period.
It doesnt need to be interpreted anymore, it did its job its a simple nullity merely historic cant be used at all!
try telling those that are using it to divide the country
Lol. You sound like you want to conveniently get rid of it out of our past. In the mistaken belief that it might make things better.
And you should know that as with anything at all, you try to hide the evidence on things not quite brought to justice yet and you create greater more fiercely aggravated problems.
David Seymour does not agree that the Treaty of Waitangi should be scrapped. There seem to be those in the comments that think this.
No he wants everyone to believe his false interpretation
When will the government abolish the mandatory Maori language learning for students, even from kindergarten? As early childhood educators, we are forced to learn Maori and teach our children Maori, which is a complete waste of taxpayers' resources. learning a foreign language should be voluntary rather than forced. The treaty must be scrapped we are a democracy country, everyone is equal. We are all New Zealanders! One of Jabsinder's greatest contribution was to make all New Zealanders hate Maori, she succeeded in turning all New Zealanders into racists who were not racists before.
What’s your definition of racist?
"learning a foreign language should be voluntary rather than forced"...hmm so maori werent forced to learn english language through the education system?
@@JamesLaughlinOfficial How about giving a pass into forcing Māori kids to learn english first, then complaining they might want to know their own language in their home country. Or does that not count?
David is such a calm clear and thoughtful communicator , the more I see of him the more I like him,, the charter schools do worry me, in theory they sound great , but I believe this also opens the door for substandard education and indoctrination of the vulnerable minds they are supposed to educate under the guise of culture , religion, etc etc by individuals or groups with unless a robust and well resourced oversight body is inplace and that standards are upheld
There seems to be indoctrination already (and for some time) in State schools. Note!
All he has done is created division and made racism stand out like it never has before
Thanks for sharing your feelings about it. If you could ask him one question. What would it be?
The treaty was signed when Maori were in the majority and never gave up sovereignty ; Maori are the indigenous people of this land ,but David wants to introduce racism into the debate !
Maori owned 100% of the land before colonization !
Maori owned 100% of the land, true, but some was confiscated, some was gifted, some was sold. I dont know where you get the idea David wants to introduce racism into the debate, have you been listening to Te Pati Maori's propaganda? He wants to make sure people understand what the treaty means. He would like everyone to be treated the same, with dignity and respect for each other.
The treaty writing is clear that Sovereignty was ceded and Kiwi's were all given equal rights so best you check your facts before looking for a way to get free money
@@anthonysherry2628 David literally repeated Brash's line "Iwi vs kiwi" and advocates for raising taxes only on Iwi businesses.
I would say forcing people to pay money for being a specific race is pretty damn racist. It also doesn't sound like he's treating "everyone" equal with that proposal.
@@anthonysherry2628ACTs David Seymour is untruthful.
Lied about Atlas Network because they're here for our resources 😮
@@gouldmcclay🛑 STOP LYING 🤥 INSTIGATOR 😡😶
The Leaders dont worry because they have big pay ,police should be paid well,
Please interview Chris Penk. He’s another smart one.
I’ll ask the team to reach out
I feel sorry for David he is someone who has spent his life destroying countries he bottled up Canada's water.
Now he needs to make some kiwis fwel like they are less just so he can get them to help him change the treaty for his rich friends personal gain.
did the bottling of water destroy Canada or what ,
@@simon-ds1vp it contributes every little a hole doing their part
Interview Rawiri Waititi
😂nice one
The invite has been sent several times …. With zero response sadly.
I can keep trying
Seymour blocked me!! Before the Cannabis Referendum when i pointed out his lies that Cannabis kills. He said it was in the statistics but it was SYNTHETICS however he doubled down and blocked me.
He blocked you on TH-cam?
"Well, enormous advantage that I'm right and they're wrong" - David Seymour 11:51
Lol. Dreamer. Just like your coalition deal allies David. Dreamers bro.
It's so powerful that he's prepared to say he's right and they're wrong to experts in every field who try to tell him he doesn't know what he's talking about. They show him studies and reports, and he says that his feelings are right and their facts are wrong.
@@AnthonyFlackhe's such a dreamer. That's why.
lol
If you don’t speak the language then leave Te Tiriti alone
I totally understand where you’re coming from. I’m Irish and now a New Zealander and I want to learn more about Te Tiriti. I obviously don’t speak Te Reo but would love to engage more with the treaty. Do you think it’s ok for me to learn and explore and talk about it?
At 12:30 Seymour outlines the unique privileges we enjoy but fails to mention they were birthed out of Christianity. Tolerance of different peoples is also unique to Christianity. Now, William Wilberforce managed to make slave trading illegal in the rest of the world, it was already banned in England in the 13th century, the first country to ban slavery. The British government then leaned on France and then the Ottoman Turks to stop transporting slaves. The Royal Navy spent millions of pounds and lost 2000 sailors stopping the Atlantic slave trade. Again this was done because of the Christian faith in Great Britain, no one else in the world cared.
In law this is predicated on the Latin "Imagio Dei" or In the Image of God, meaning human life is sacred as we carry a spark of the Divine: Ergo all men are equal under the law, self determination and our human rights flow on from that. So I find it odd that on the one hand Seymour champions the taking of ones own life in the End of life bill, but is opposed to ending the life of an abhorrent criminal. If life is no longer sacred why oppose capital punishment? If one is going to quote the 6th Commandment then remember it says: "Thou shalt not murder ".
when did you shall not kill , become thou shall not murder ?
@@simon-ds1vp In the original Hebrew.
And so where's all of that in Te Tiriti?
4:43 sorry, this attempt narrative is half truths and bullshit. Historically and still to a degree christians have justified slavery cos its "in the bible". And the muslims have always been up to their necks in slavery, trading, taking, abusing people in their power as slaves. Screw religeon.
If tolerance to different cultures is a feature of Christianity, how do you explain the crusades and burnings????. Actually, Christianity is the least tolerant religion with the exception perhaps of Tikanga
HE IS HUGELY DIVISIVE AND IS SCHOOLED BY PEOPLE WHO WANT OUR RESOURCES 😢
He says a separate parallel health system is wrong...
Māori weren't even ALLOWED in our first hospitals nor to run the one they built...LOOK IT UP😮
Thanks Cheryl.
Delightful, refreshing to hear, a great interview and questions from your Son.
Thanks so much Andrea. I hope that more kiwis take the time to be curious and open minded even when they disagree with others
Short arms and deep pockets: Maybe David should be the Finance Minister! LOL
hahaha. Andrew I think David would get a good belly laugh at that.
Massively rising petrol prices and Oil and Gas Industry SPONSORS the Atlas Network 🤔
I think it's interesting that you believe these guys are connected to this "Atlas Network". What makes you feel that way?
Good one David
David so many talking heads 😂
time of talking talking talking is over (despite).. time for real permanent action...
like what ?
Thanks for sharing
As an UNELECTED Co-leader 😮
Thanks for your feelings and thoughts on this Cheryl
I think we are all lucky the Russians didn’t invade as was expected late 1800,s or the French or the Japanese in ww2.There would be no argument now
lol the Russians again
So readily forgotten.
Well then the Crown would have to respond as part of it's responsibility to the Treaty, wouldn't they.
@@Kult365 Which planet are you on?
@@Kult365 I’m quite sure when I mentioned the French threat Du fresne was something of a threat after the massacre, before the treaty was signed.
Dismantle the treaty
try and watch yourself be dismantled
Tony that is the dumbest most unintelligible way to say that way treaty of Waitangi if it gets dismantled then a civil war will break out really
Be careful what you wish for
why tis coalition purchasing armoured vehicles from Aussie to ready for rebellion is how far Tis govt wants to go by the looks of it regardless nz probably already is get much much worse the way tis govt steering it like America definitely tis govt won’t go to the courts to settle the treaty interpretation get found out they wrong???
Maori are timing it to the 'T' so be careful, be very very careful ACT and your coalition
There is only confusion on the pakeha side. It is as clear as daytime for maori.
This is the problem with radical politics. It makes everything so simple. History however takes a hell of a lot of reading, intellect and imagination.
Joseph- why do you think that is?
The treaty of Waitangi was signed by Maori and the crown. Not you and I. Too many people want there own interpretation to suit their own life style. That's where you come in.
Hard to understand the interviewer
Thanks for the feedback. What might I do to be clearer Malcolm?
Cheers James what a great interview, I'm all the wiser now. All the best.
Thanks Steve, I really appreciate your kind feedback. Are there any other leaders you’d like to see me interview?
@@JamesLaughlinOfficial Winston and Chris Luxon and MPs like Erica Stanford and Shane Jones. You have a good way of getting to the nitty gritty and substance of an issue James, keeping things real, well done and God bless. Good to see your boy being a part of the interview, good stuff.
Very good 👍
Thank you! Cheers!
07:48 is that correct? I thought Luxon worked in Canada. 🤔
15:58 SHAMEFUL DAVID 😮
Thanks Cheryl.
ive never heard any english man use the word maori as much as this guy . he needs to go.he high lights maori and the name like we are not equal to his english ideas. he dosnt speak for all polotition but himself
Thanks Daniel. What do you think he could do differently?
19:02 that line about the economy. Both Luxon and Seymour seem to think if they keep repeating it people will assume it was damaged to start with.
Seymour's reading of 'rangatiratanga' is interesting. Chieftainship comes to mean self-determination/ freedom, which makes some sense as chiefs themselves referred to European men of means as rangatira [Polack]. They are not the commoners, or the slaves, but free-moving, self-determining agents of their own action. Context is important, the chiefs were primarily concerned about becoming slaves under the treaty. In using the term 'rangtiratanga' they had their chieftainship/ self-determination/ authority and mana over their tribes protected. Note that there is no abstract application of this term to the race of Maori in general - the treaty is specifically between chiefs and the British Crown. This is why not only does Seymour's argument obviously fail, but also why the treaty can not be used as a founding/ constitutional document for our country as a whole. It is simply a part of our history. The rights of all Maori are ratified under law in the new Parliament that became sovereign over the country.
Thanks Dave
Invite Mike Bush on
Will do!
The joker Seymore
What a jerk
Why do you think that?
@@JamesLaughlinOfficial why would you want to know
It's not a particularly challenging interview for Seymour. I get that it was designed that way. At the end I simply felt that Seymour was putting out an almost prepared set of lines. I always end up, after listening to Seymour, with the impression that there's no real depth to him. Given he has this leadership role I have asked myself if he is a leader and the answer is always no.
Hmm.... 🤔