I’m sorry to hear your build was affected. Those are all great questions, and I hope Van’s can answer them for us all soon. Really hoping they make a recording available for those of us who aren’t able to make it to Oshkosh
I did see a live stream of the Vans talk/Q&A at Oshkosh on Tuesday and it seems like they are doing everything they said they would so I'm hopeful all will end up well. I saw your most recent video, the baby looks great helping with the plane. Congrats again
@@SlinkAir I saw that too. Was definitely promising. Hoping those tests come back showing we can push forward. And thank you!! Just need to get him to grip the tools a bit better and I’ll have him pushing the build along.
Was this an outside contractor(s) that took it upon themselves to change the process on how the parts are made? Or did Van's specify laser cutting? I would think, even if the part looks okay, the HAZ(heat affected zone) from the laser cutting, may still cause an issue during assembly. Do they even have a good handle on which parts were laser cut and which were not? How did they track it? Did they track it? Can the company survive the major foul up? They have big cash flow issues apparently from the information on their web page. There are only so many options to address this. Some of them are, raising prices substantially, reducing the lineup of kits, laying off staff, getting bailed out by a wealthy individual, hoping vendors extend longer terms on payment, increase efficiencies, reduce costs. You only get so much mileage from any of them. They could raise capital by taking the company public and listing on the stock market. But then they become beholden to shareholders and the nature of the business will change. Does Zenith Aircraft laser cut any of their parts? If so, are the same issues present?
From what I have been able to put together, The laser cut parts were not completed as designed by Vans and that was the major reason for the issues. Vans did release an engineering assessment (www.vansaircraft.com/2023/07/information-about-dimpled-hole-cracking-on-some-laser-cut-parts/) that helps explain a few things. I hope they survive... it would be bad for me if they don't! My opinion is that someone will buy them out. I think they have a good and popular product and any one of their competitors wouldn't mind a piece of their potential profit. but you never know... I'm not sure about Zenith Aircraft
I'm really sorry you've got parts in your completed sections that will likely need to get replaced. But, you seem to have a really good attitude about it. I've got a wing kit with almost 100 laser cut parts but I haven't started it yet so I'm lucky. Good luck moving forward!
The parts are not dimpled when you get them. You will need either a "C" frame dimpler with dimple sets, or dimple sets for a squeezer or both. For the RV-14 all of the holes are "final sized" meaning that you do not have to drill them to the correct size you just have to rivet them together.
I have completed my vertical stabilizer, rudder, most of my horizontal stabilizer and prepped most parts for my elevator. I'm not comfortable drilling out rivets and disassembling the vertical stabilizer, rudder, and horizontal stabilizer and reusing parts that have had nearly every rivet set and previously drilled out. Section 5 of Van's instructions states "the second rivet that is driven in any one hole [is] likely to be more defective than the first because the hole is enlarged and [the] rivet will be more likely to buckle and form an imperfect head." So, for example, drilling out every rivet connecting ribs to the horizontal stabilizer spar would presumably result in a less structurally sound horizontal stabilizer. I can accept replacing an occasional rivet but not replacing every rivet on any given part. I will not proceed with my build without replacing every component of my vertical stabilizer, rudder, and those previously riveted parts of my horizontal stabilizer, including the front spar.
I agree... In my opinion I think Vans should replace all components of completed parts that contain parts that they recommend replacing... for example I have my vertical stabilizer completed. If the front and rear spars are to be replaced according to Vans. Vans should send the entire vertical stabilizer section to me. I would be fine with having to supply pictures or video of the completed parts... At Oshkosh someone asked a question similar to this and Vans response was, "we are builders too" so I have some hope that they will make some kind of concession concerning this topic... but time will tell... Thank you for your comment! At the very least we can form a support group :)
You do have a good attitude about your situation. We can talk about this more but I think Vans needs to replace all affected parts. If they are going to ask you to replace a particular part. If the spar is connected to five other parts or 10 or 12 then they need to replace all 10 or 12 parts including the affected part. You can't take apart stuff you've glued. I wonder where they're quality control was. I guess too, if they are as easy to work with, as you say, they would probably be eager to give you all affected parts. Reputation in a company is always a big deal and hopefully they want to keep to themselves a great reputation. Well, hang in there. Let's go to Oshkosh!!
No kidding! I want to go to Oshkosh so bad. I looked at hotels for next year and it was like 700 a night... that is crazy talk. Maybe we could find a VRBO or something and split it. You and I can do Osh and the Wives and kids could... well... not...
I took delivery of my Wing Kit on 31 March, 2022. I have Sub Kit #1 and #3 in my home shop. The rest of the kit is in its crate, stored in my hangar. Van's Laser Cut Parts spreadsheet identifies sixty-two (62) laser cut part numbers (not quantity) in the Wing Kit. So far, out of the twenty-four (24) parts in Sub Kit #1 and #3, seven (7) parts are within the "First Date in Inventory" dates. Two of the parts (Spar FL-00003-L/R - flap spars) are marked for "REPLACE" under the Laser Status column. That's a no-brainer. For me, my comfort level is to request replacement of all laser-cut parts if they fall within the First Date in Inventory dates, regardless of their Laser Status - even if I have to purchase them. But that's me.
Vans I don't agree with you. I'm in Sydney Australia and they have been very poor in supporting their overseas customers. After numerous emails they still haven't got their act together. I have a RV10 Empennage kit an 80% of it is JUNK. I am at wits end with VANS. I give up
Sorry its been so bad. I cant speak to their overseas service, only what I have experienced. Is it okay if I share your concerns/issues on my channel? Maybe shedding some light on it might help? I'm pretty good friends with @austinmanke, maybe he might be able to help as well?
I’m sorry to hear your build was affected. Those are all great questions, and I hope Van’s can answer them for us all soon. Really hoping they make a recording available for those of us who aren’t able to make it to Oshkosh
I did see a live stream of the Vans talk/Q&A at Oshkosh on Tuesday and it seems like they are doing everything they said they would so I'm hopeful all will end up well. I saw your most recent video, the baby looks great helping with the plane. Congrats again
@@SlinkAir I saw that too. Was definitely promising. Hoping those tests come back showing we can push forward. And thank you!! Just need to get him to grip the tools a bit better and I’ll have him pushing the build along.
Great line of questions. Im on the same boat with my -10
I did see a livestream from Oshkosh (th-cam.com/video/gO1pKlyPqvk/w-d-xo.html) they answered some of the questions so I'm hopeful.
Was this an outside contractor(s) that took it upon themselves to change the process on how the parts are made? Or did Van's specify laser cutting? I would think, even if the part looks okay, the HAZ(heat affected zone) from the laser cutting, may still cause an issue during assembly. Do they even have a good handle on which parts were laser cut and which were not? How did they track it? Did they track it?
Can the company survive the major foul up? They have big cash flow issues apparently from the information on their web page. There are only so many options to address this. Some of them are, raising prices substantially, reducing the lineup of kits, laying off staff, getting bailed out by a wealthy individual, hoping vendors extend longer terms on payment, increase efficiencies, reduce costs. You only get so much mileage from any of them. They could raise capital by taking the company public and listing on the stock market. But then they become beholden to shareholders and the nature of the business will change.
Does Zenith Aircraft laser cut any of their parts? If so, are the same issues present?
They cnc and punch holes but have never seen any laser tech used. I built a 701 but kit was just rolls of aluminum and nothing pre drilled.
From what I have been able to put together, The laser cut parts were not completed as designed by Vans and that was the major reason for the issues. Vans did release an engineering assessment (www.vansaircraft.com/2023/07/information-about-dimpled-hole-cracking-on-some-laser-cut-parts/) that helps explain a few things.
I hope they survive... it would be bad for me if they don't! My opinion is that someone will buy them out. I think they have a good and popular product and any one of their competitors wouldn't mind a piece of their potential profit. but you never know...
I'm not sure about Zenith Aircraft
I'm really sorry you've got parts in your completed sections that will likely need to get replaced. But, you seem to have a really good attitude about it. I've got a wing kit with almost 100 laser cut parts but I haven't started it yet so I'm lucky. Good luck moving forward!
Thanks! Have fun building. I have loved it so far!
Are the parts "Dimpled" when they arrive, or do you dimple them?
Do you "Pin coin" the holes prior to the dimpling op.?
The parts are not dimpled when you get them. You will need either a "C" frame dimpler with dimple sets, or dimple sets for a squeezer or both. For the RV-14 all of the holes are "final sized" meaning that you do not have to drill them to the correct size you just have to rivet them together.
I have completed my vertical stabilizer, rudder, most of my horizontal stabilizer and prepped most parts for my elevator. I'm not comfortable drilling out rivets and disassembling the vertical stabilizer, rudder, and horizontal stabilizer and reusing parts that have had nearly every rivet set and previously drilled out. Section 5 of Van's instructions states "the second rivet that is driven in any one hole [is] likely to be more defective than the first because the hole is enlarged and [the] rivet will be more likely to buckle and form an imperfect head." So, for example, drilling out every rivet connecting ribs to the horizontal stabilizer spar would presumably result in a less structurally sound horizontal stabilizer. I can accept replacing an occasional rivet but not replacing every rivet on any given part. I will not proceed with my build without replacing every component of my vertical stabilizer, rudder, and those previously riveted parts of my horizontal stabilizer, including the front spar.
I agree... In my opinion I think Vans should replace all components of completed parts that contain parts that they recommend replacing... for example I have my vertical stabilizer completed. If the front and rear spars are to be replaced according to Vans. Vans should send the entire vertical stabilizer section to me. I would be fine with having to supply pictures or video of the completed parts... At Oshkosh someone asked a question similar to this and Vans response was, "we are builders too" so I have some hope that they will make some kind of concession concerning this topic... but time will tell... Thank you for your comment! At the very least we can form a support group :)
You do have a good attitude about your situation. We can talk about this more but I think Vans needs to replace all affected parts. If they are going to ask you to replace a particular part. If the spar is connected to five other parts or 10 or 12 then they need to replace all 10 or 12 parts including the affected part. You can't take apart stuff you've glued. I wonder where they're quality control was. I guess too, if they are as easy to work with, as you say, they would probably be eager to give you all affected parts. Reputation in a company is always a big deal and hopefully they want to keep to themselves a great reputation. Well, hang in there. Let's go to Oshkosh!!
No kidding! I want to go to Oshkosh so bad. I looked at hotels for next year and it was like 700 a night... that is crazy talk. Maybe we could find a VRBO or something and split it. You and I can do Osh and the Wives and kids could... well... not...
I took delivery of my Wing Kit on 31 March, 2022. I have Sub Kit #1 and #3 in my home shop. The rest of the kit is in its crate, stored in my hangar. Van's Laser Cut Parts spreadsheet identifies sixty-two (62) laser cut part numbers (not quantity) in the Wing Kit. So far, out of the twenty-four (24) parts in Sub Kit #1 and #3, seven (7) parts are within the "First Date in Inventory" dates. Two of the parts (Spar FL-00003-L/R - flap spars) are marked for "REPLACE" under the Laser Status column. That's a no-brainer. For me, my comfort level is to request replacement of all laser-cut parts if they fall within the First Date in Inventory dates, regardless of their Laser Status - even if I have to purchase them. But that's me.
Agreed, safety is paramount! after seeing some of their tests they shared at Oshkosh I feel much better about things.
Vans I don't agree with you. I'm in Sydney Australia and they have been very poor in supporting their overseas customers. After numerous emails they still haven't got their act together. I have a RV10 Empennage kit an 80% of it is JUNK. I am at wits end with VANS. I give up
Sorry its been so bad. I cant speak to their overseas service, only what I have experienced. Is it okay if I share your concerns/issues on my channel? Maybe shedding some light on it might help? I'm pretty good friends with @austinmanke, maybe he might be able to help as well?