I have a Automation Direct GS2 5 hp vfd with brake resistor on a mill with 3hp motor that was variable speed pulley type, so it still has big cast iron pulley to swing and from 4k rpm to 0 in 0.7 seconds. Cheap is cheap no free lunch.....
Just discovered this with the Fuling DZB300 VFDs. After a finding that a braking resistor had no effect, I asked the seller, and was told the 220V models do not have the braking circuitry, but they offered to modify one for anyone who needed the braking resistor. The circuitry may be as simple as an IGBT and diode and I'm looking for someone who has both for comparison and modification; the terminals for an external braking resistor are already present, so it's sad that feature was removed. Regardless, other than this small detail, I'm happy with the Fuling, which seems similar to the Huanyang, in terms of features and the help from the seller. Next time, I'll probably try an Automation Direct branded one, which are only a little more expensive, but more feature full.
Marty, there are a couple of methods you can use to get a rapid emergency stop. Dropping out the 240 vac supply generally causes a lock up. When I've experimented on the bench the deceleration is so rapid the motor will jump off the bench unless clamped down. The same thing happens when dump trucks lose their speed sensor feedback, which is why I was experimenting. I would only use that method for E stop. Method 2 use a pair of contactors to apply capacitors across motor terminals while disconnecting the motor from the VVVF drive. Method 3 use 2 contactors to apply DC braking current independent of the VVVF drive. VVVF drives with a 6 thyristor converter front end can regenerate into the mains whereas most units have a simple diode rectifier front end. Regeneration into the mains can be a problem with harmonics. This is why the braking resistor is the preferred method despite being marginal in performance. Hope that helps.
Hi Marty, I Purchased my 4 KW GT series from HY Huanyang on Amazon I believe that’s factory direct. I messaged them through Amazon requesting the braking resistor option and They added The internal circuitry including the potentiometer for no charge. I then Purchased the external breaking resistor from them on amazon as well for $35. Even though the listing on Amazon said it would take much longer they shipped it DHL and I received it in under a week. Hopefully this helps other people in the market for a Huanyang.
Marty, What are you using now for a VFD on your lathe? I see a comment saying you changed it up to a better unit. Did this result in better braking performance?
thanks for this video, i was attaching my braking resistor to my huanyang vfd today and nothing happened. guess it too is missing the circuitry for this.
Hi Marty, can the technology used to instantly stop the chop saws, be applied to your situation? Somehow it reverses the power for a short period of time. Thanks, Steve
Surprised they shipped a 200R braking resistor. That will only dissipate 500W or so which is a small fraction of the rated output. More typical would be 50R or so which would still require less than 10A peak current which is surely within its capability. If you are feeling sporting, you could try something lower in value. What is that metal clad resistor you have there? The requirement for a braking resistor is that it must have a large thermal mass in the actual resistance wire to keep the peak temperature safely below melting point. For that reason, a film resistor wouldn't last long at all. And of course you need to get rid of the heat between braking events, hence the large surface area and thermal path.
Murray, I wired up the 100ohm resistor and tested again. I was able to go down to 5 seconds decelleration. My concern is how much current the HY drive can handle to dump to the Resistor before I try another....I need to consult with them.
Mr. The frequency in USA is 60 HZ AND THE FREQUENCY OF MY MOTOR IS 50 HZ. THE PARAMETERS P0.03 60HZ, PO.O4 60HZ, P0.06 60HZ, AND FOR THE MOTOR P2.02 50HZ Is this correct? My VFD GT is 5kw 7.5hp thanks
I tried a 100ohm braking resistor I had. I was able to shave another second off the decelleration time. I am an uneasy trying another until I consult with the factory on what the drive it self can dump to the resistor.
i bought same VFD you got on your left with potentiometer, and you running a very big motor on it with i think 12AWG wire, that's why i was asking you if i can run my 4 kw spindle on CNC with 12AWG, or could i use 16/4 AWG wire from Ebay seller that saying that his 16/4 double shielded wire can handle up to 4.5 kw CNC spindle. thank you
Have the 5hp version of this VFD with pot. Manual shows brake resistor connecting to “P” and “N”. None of the terminal blocks are “N” and the manual does not show a terminal “N” on any of the product data for all VFD’s. Another location in the manual does have a chart that has. “P.Pr - connector for braking resistor ( optional)”. My VFD. has “P” and “Pr” can you confirm these are the correct terminals for brake? Thanks!
I do not have a VFD or a CNC machine but I am interested in these topics. Would a filament bulbs work instead of the resistor? Couple of them in series... maybe? Just asking...
Hi Marty, I'm just gathering components to retrofit a Shizuoka AN-S mill with a Centroid Acorn. It currently has a 3kw Takisawa spindle motor. Would you recommend the Huan Yang 4kw GT VFD with the braking resistor for this application?
I have been going back and forth with Huan Yang about this issue. To their credit, they are responsive. They suggested a different VFD, one with Sensorless Vector control (constant torque throughout the motor RPM range) and one with better braking characteristics. Hopefully I will have it in the coming weeks and will do a follow up video.
Glenn, the have a sensorless vector drive. GT2. But be sure to ask for the braking resistor option. Stick with locally available VFDs for CNC control like the GS3 series from Automationdirect.com
I've just purchased the same VFD with braking resistor. I was wondering why are 2 bolts on both sides of the resistor? I see you have wired to the other points. Any idea?
Hola, tengo un problema, en sentido FOR me va todo bien pero cuando cambio a REV empieza lento y se para. Porque puede ser? En FOR me gira en sentido antihorario y me gustaria que girara en sentido horario
maibe look intoo magnetic braking , you fisicly bolt that to the back of the motor is a big electromagnet that pushes a plate connected to the shaft of the motor intoo brake material , usually they run of dc power
Graham, post your question on the Centroid CNC Acorn users forum. Be sure to either upload or post a link to the manual for your VFD. We'll try and help there. centroidcncforum.com/viewforum.php?f=60&sid=9fd170a21d335dedc45a98d1d966ff9c
Hola. Cordial saludo. Quisiera saber que características debe tener el variador para usarlo como mi placa controladora acorn 12. Estoy en un proyecto con un torno y una fresadora.
hi Marty. nice tutorial , 5 HP thats 4KW VFD, I have 4Kw spindle on my cnc what size cable should i use . its 220v 4Kw 18Ams spindle. my CNC its big so will take 35 ft of cable . many sellers saying a 16/4 will do for this spindle, but 16/4wga can't handle 18 Amps. any advice Thank you Max
Max, #12 copper is good for 20amps. But I you are saying there is considerable distance between the VFD and the spindle, you may want to go to #10 copper. Further, do not be the Huan Yang HY series VFD, buy the GT series Huan Yang VFD it is sensorless vector. Also consider upgrading to the 10hp unit for a margin if safety
hi Marty, thank you for advice, i was talking about router CNC, i did bought 10/4 shielded wire but its too thick it wont go in spindle connection plug, also its very stiff not good for Z- axis.
I have a Automation Direct GS2 5 hp vfd with brake resistor on a mill with 3hp motor that was variable speed pulley type, so it still has big cast iron pulley to swing and from 4k rpm to 0 in 0.7 seconds. Cheap is cheap no free lunch.....
Just discovered this with the Fuling DZB300 VFDs. After a finding that a braking resistor had no effect, I asked the seller, and was told the 220V models do not have the braking circuitry, but they offered to modify one for anyone who needed the braking resistor. The circuitry may be as simple as an IGBT and diode and I'm looking for someone who has both for comparison and modification; the terminals for an external braking resistor are already present, so it's sad that feature was removed. Regardless, other than this small detail, I'm happy with the Fuling, which seems similar to the Huanyang, in terms of features and the help from the seller. Next time, I'll probably try an Automation Direct branded one, which are only a little more expensive, but more feature full.
Marty, there are a couple of methods you can use to get a rapid emergency stop.
Dropping out the 240 vac supply generally causes a lock up. When I've experimented on the bench the deceleration is so rapid the motor will jump off the bench unless clamped down. The same thing happens when dump trucks lose their speed sensor feedback, which is why I was experimenting. I would only use that method for E stop.
Method 2 use a pair of contactors to apply capacitors across motor terminals while disconnecting the motor from the VVVF drive.
Method 3 use 2 contactors to apply DC braking current independent of the VVVF drive.
VVVF drives with a 6 thyristor converter front end can regenerate into the mains whereas most units have a simple diode rectifier front end. Regeneration into the mains can be a problem with harmonics.
This is why the braking resistor is the preferred method despite being marginal in performance.
Hope that helps.
Thanks. I no longer use HY drives. I use better drives with braking resistors. Much better performance.
Hi Marty, I Purchased my 4 KW GT series from HY Huanyang on Amazon I believe that’s factory direct. I messaged them through Amazon requesting the braking resistor option and They added The internal circuitry including the potentiometer for no charge. I then Purchased the external breaking resistor from them on amazon as well for $35. Even though the listing on Amazon said it would take much longer they shipped it DHL and I received it in under a week. Hopefully this helps other people in the market for a Huanyang.
Excellent news. I hope it serves you well!
Marty, What are you using now for a VFD on your lathe? I see a comment saying you changed it up to a better unit. Did this result in better braking performance?
thanks for this video, i was attaching my braking resistor to my huanyang vfd today and nothing happened. guess it too is missing the circuitry for this.
Yes it's aggravating. They are saving a few bucks by not including it. Absurd. You must ask them to add that option
Hi Marty, can the technology used to instantly stop the chop saws, be applied to your situation? Somehow it reverses the power for a short period of time.
Thanks, Steve
Surprised they shipped a 200R braking resistor. That will only dissipate 500W or so which is a small fraction of the rated output. More typical would be 50R or so which would still require less than 10A peak current which is surely within its capability. If you are feeling sporting, you could try something lower in value. What is that metal clad resistor you have there?
The requirement for a braking resistor is that it must have a large thermal mass in the actual resistance wire to keep the peak temperature safely below melting point. For that reason, a film resistor wouldn't last long at all. And of course you need to get rid of the heat between braking events, hence the large surface area and thermal path.
Good thought Murray. I have a couple resistors from other VFDs. I'll look at them when I get home, they maybe small. I think it came from a 3hp VFD
Murray, I wired up the 100ohm resistor and tested again. I was able to go down to 5 seconds decelleration.
My concern is how much current the HY drive can handle to dump to the Resistor before I try another....I need to consult with them.
I spoke with the folks at HY, they say don't go more than the 100ohm, may damage the VFD....again, get what ya pay for.
martyscncgarage 200ohm sounds a bit high. Most the braking resistors they sell on eBay don’t go that high.
Mr. The frequency in USA is 60 HZ AND THE FREQUENCY OF MY MOTOR IS 50 HZ. THE PARAMETERS P0.03 60HZ, PO.O4 60HZ, P0.06 60HZ, AND FOR THE MOTOR P2.02 50HZ Is this correct? My VFD GT is 5kw 7.5hp thanks
Change the frequency settings to 50hz and try that. You should be really contacting HY Electrical for support.
I tried a 100ohm braking resistor I had. I was able to shave another second off the decelleration time. I am an uneasy trying another until I consult with the factory on what the drive it self can dump to the resistor.
i bought same VFD you got on your left with potentiometer, and you running a very big motor on it with i think 12AWG wire, that's why i was asking you if i can run my 4 kw spindle on CNC with 12AWG, or could i use 16/4 AWG wire from Ebay seller that saying that his 16/4 double shielded wire can handle up to 4.5 kw CNC spindle.
thank you
Have the 5hp version of this VFD with pot. Manual shows brake resistor connecting to “P” and “N”. None of the terminal blocks are “N” and the manual does not show a terminal “N” on any of the product data for all VFD’s. Another location in the manual does have a chart that has. “P.Pr - connector for braking resistor ( optional)”. My VFD. has “P” and “Pr” can you confirm these are the correct terminals for brake? Thanks!
Just found there TH-cam channel...P and Pr are the correct terminals.
I do not have a VFD or a CNC machine but I am interested in these topics. Would a filament bulbs work instead of the resistor? Couple of them in series... maybe? Just asking...
Resistance and wattage is what matters. I would not use a bulb, because it's likely to burn out
Did the wire diagram show you wear to wire in the external resistor .
You must have ordered the drive SPECIALLY for braking resistor circuitry. They do not automatically provide it unless you specify and pay for it
Hi Marty,
I'm just gathering components to retrofit a Shizuoka AN-S mill with a Centroid Acorn. It currently has a 3kw Takisawa spindle motor. Would you recommend the Huan Yang 4kw GT VFD with the braking resistor for this application?
Suggest you buy the 10hp VFD it's not much more money and gives you a safety margin
I have been going back and forth with Huan Yang about this issue. To their credit, they are responsive. They suggested a different VFD, one with Sensorless Vector control (constant torque throughout the motor RPM range) and one with better braking characteristics. Hopefully I will have it in the coming weeks and will do a follow up video.
martyscncgarage so this didn’t work well for you and you went to a vector drive?
Glenn, the have a sensorless vector drive. GT2. But be sure to ask for the braking resistor option. Stick with locally available VFDs for CNC control like the GS3 series from Automationdirect.com
I've just purchased the same VFD with braking resistor. I was wondering why are 2 bolts on both sides of the resistor? I see you have wired to the other points. Any idea?
Pataki Attila bolts are for the bracket. Wire as shown in the video
Ok. Thank You!!!
And does matter which one is positive and which one negative? P+ and P- on VFD
Pataki Attila, no it's just a resistor
Hola, tengo un problema, en sentido FOR me va todo bien pero cuando cambio a REV empieza lento y se para. Porque puede ser? En FOR me gira en sentido antihorario y me gustaria que girara en sentido horario
Can you add a braking resistor to a motor without a vfd?
No. The braking resistor is part of the VFD and not all VFDs support them.
Hi Marty, 500Watts 100ohm resistor works? Thanks
maibe look intoo magnetic braking , you fisicly bolt that to the back of the motor
is a big electromagnet that pushes a plate connected to the shaft of the motor intoo brake material , usually they run of dc power
Thanks for the suggestion. The new Huan Yang GT series VFD's are better suited to CNC. I have one I am testing on my Emcoturn 140.
Maybe you will need to add a disk brake. As long as the chuck is not screwed on. Thanks for your informative videos.
Cheers Dave
Hi Dave, No, it will be fine, its a relatively small lathe. I can't ask for much from a $240 5hp VFD. It does work.
you can get a Fuji drive from Wolf for that.
Hi Marty
I bought a veichi ac70e vfd want to connect to centroid acorn board. Can you help me please?
Regards
Graham
Graham, post your question on the Centroid CNC Acorn users forum. Be sure to either upload or post a link to the manual for your VFD. We'll try and help there. centroidcncforum.com/viewforum.php?f=60&sid=9fd170a21d335dedc45a98d1d966ff9c
Does the vfd still work?
I sold the lathe with it. The HY GT is what I would buy if I needed an inexpensive VFD. Currently I'm buying TD series drives from factorymation.com
@@martyscncgarage5275 thanks for the suggestion
At 200 ohms you are not getting enough power. Use a smaller resistor - 50 ohms.
Hola. Cordial saludo. Quisiera saber que características debe tener el variador para usarlo como mi placa controladora acorn 12. Estoy en un proyecto con un torno y una fresadora.
¿Huso? Entrada analógica 0-10VDC
Is that a regular AC motor?
3 Phase AC motor. If you have to buy a new one, buy an Inverter Duty rated motor.
Sir make video on breaking resistor parameter set in vfd please
Huan Yang has a channel. Check them out. If it's another VFD you'll have to read the manual.
But what was the potentiometer for?
Mark, not used in my case. The CNC controls the VFD speed
5 hp vfd Braking ragistince size
Braking resistors are usually sized by the VFD manufacturer. Contact the manufacturer of your VFD
That resistor is on the small size for that 5HP Motor.
milton, that's what was recommended by Huan Yang for the application
Ok I find that these cheaper VFD don't handle braking very good so I go one size larger rating VFD. .
someone knows how to use the brake with direct current
Seems like it should have stopped faster after BR.. in comparison to without BR. I don't have experience so take it with a grain of salt.
I tend to agree, but consider the cost of the drive...
hi Marty.
nice tutorial , 5 HP thats 4KW VFD, I have 4Kw spindle on my cnc what size cable should i use . its 220v 4Kw 18Ams spindle. my CNC its big so will take 35 ft of cable . many sellers saying a 16/4 will do for this spindle, but 16/4wga can't handle 18 Amps. any advice
Thank you
Max
Max, #12 copper is good for 20amps. But I you are saying there is considerable distance between the VFD and the spindle, you may want to go to #10 copper. Further, do not be the Huan Yang HY series VFD, buy the GT series Huan Yang VFD it is sensorless vector. Also consider upgrading to the 10hp unit for a margin if safety
hi Marty,
thank you for advice, i was talking about router CNC, i did bought 10/4 shielded wire but its too thick it wont go in spindle connection plug, also its very stiff not good for Z- axis.
i did bought GT series, are they any better
I assumed it was a standard 3 phase AC motor, not a Chinese router spindle. Do follow it's instructions.