Turkey has always had a difficult and complex relationship with the West. But there is now a sense that they have taken very different directions. So, should the West make the final break with Turkey? Or should it try to continue to maintain the relationship and keep Turkey on its side? Thoughts and comments below.
The West hasn't been presented as opponents, they themselves have been acting like opponents. Some examples that come to mind: their role in supporting PKK-aligned Kurds in the Levant, their favouring of Greece in Greek-Turkish disputes, their increasingly hostile approach to Turkish Muslim institutions and Turkish/Muslim citizens in the West, their opposition to Turkey pursuing an independent course free from Western economic and political interference.
@@shkronjax Turkey is a representation of the Ottoman Empire. It was the British and the western imperialist which collectively brought the downfall of the Ottoman Empire. Certainly, the EU will always be sceptical about Turkey. Erdogan is a different person and he is the key to Turkey's future whom the CIA freaked, tried to depose but failed. Turkey is the gateway between the East and the West. Remaining neutral but yet leaning to a stronger Asia diaspora is a better option to keep Turkey strong. To be in NATO and the EU will always be despised, not trusted and a pawn like to the western imperialist.
The western bloc has never seen Turkey as a real ally. The same sentiment applies to the Turks, as Turkey fought its own war of independence against the western powers. Turks always had Sevres Syndrome, so they didn't feel like they belonged to the western bloc. Therefore, the trust and harmony that formed in the western bloc never occurred with Turkey. In the Cyprus and Kurdish issue, which are Turkey's red lines, the West has not stood with Turkey, but stood against it and forced Turkey to look for an alternative. You are absolutely right about human rights, but the biggest reason Turkey has come to this situation is the western bloc itself.
the UN and "human rights " are all based on subjective morality and they can not prove their stand at all. therefore all their intervenes weather it's " humane" or not can't be proven morally and they can't prove that's terrorism is good or bad. what am trying to say is this system is belt on hypocrisy and when Objective moral people start to realize than they will take action and subjectisim will have no answer when the objective moral people start action and they can't say it's " good or bad ". even if objective moral people did wrong the subjective people can't prove it's wrong since it's all subjective. even so atheist can't prove what's good or bad in all topics other than morality. for example, an atheist says to someone you are Bac-kward and that someone says is being Back- ward good or bad ? here they can't really answer. they can't prove being whatever is good or bad. and so on and so on. what am literally saying now will change the world perception and the moral people will take action. it's inevitable. one thing else if they don't have the concept of good or bad of any subject other than morality that means it has no value ( worthless ). for example, asking an atheist is science good or bad ? if he/she did reply with good and bad they can't prove it therefore, it's subjective and has no value at all since they don't have the concept of Good and bad. therefore, all their " facts" ( which are hypothesis not facts ) are worthless if it has no value ( good and bad ). they can't detect which is fact and not if they don't hold on any value and even if they did they can't prove it since it's subjective. We live in a world that ran by subjective people who can't prove their value or the value of anything and can't prove even their subjectivsim and it's value! Yet they have the audacity to tell us what's good or bad and what's valuable and not and what's true and not.
about veto members they control everything and They have last word in UN. UN is toy for America and the west to take actions on countries that don't walk on the way they wish and The UN favors mostly USA and The west . the west now is spreading LGBT, feminism, .....etc because these ideologies ( yes they are ideologies) are materialstic and can be easily controlled. plus they want countries to refuse these ideologies do the west and USA declare wars and sanctions on these countries that refuse to apply these subjective ideologies in their lands. you see? they can't prove anything and want to force everything on us ! and guess who divided the world into capitalism and communism? 🤭 do i have to mention them ?
Is Turkey really interested in drawing closer to Russia? Aren't they butting heads in Syria and now Ukraine, where Turkey is providing drones used against pro-Russia forces in Eastern Ukraine? And in the Black Sea, where Turkey seeks to reduce Russia's military presence?
Thanks. You are right. It is a complex relationship. I didn't have time to go into it in detail. In fact, I should come back to this in a future video. Historically, the Russia-Turkey relationship is fascinating. But in the space available for this video, my point was to underscore that Turkey has forged its own path with little real apparent desire to consider the views of its Western partners. The growing ties between Ankara and Moscow (although I think they are indeed more fragile than many realise) was a simple way of showing this. There is real anger about Turkey's purchase of S400 missiles from Russia, which was clearly done to shore up that relationship between Erdogan and Putin.
"My enemies enemy is my friend" Russia is no friend of Turkey, the Russian and Ottoman Empire sent hundreds of years fighting each other... I believe Russia now is just happy to see NATO being undermined. But Russian and Turkish backed Islamic groups have been fighting it out in Syria for years now
@@JamesKerLindsay you're also leaving out that Armenian and Azerbaijan debacle where Russia really didn't support either side to try to stay neutral but Turkey supports and supplies Azerbaijan making the friction much higher than other maybe realize Theirs also the mention of the major religions in play in each country Islam being turkeys main religion and catholicism having huge power in Russia a true union anytime soon is very unlikely. They'll most likely see to align themselves with more of the Arabic world .
Whole the Eu members and the Nato members, all of them are supporting and arming the Pkk Ypg terrorists for about 40 years.And also the Gulen movement is supported by the west.They want to destroy Turkey and split it into many pieces.With such an allie you dont need an ennemy.It is become impossible for Turkey now to trust the west anymore.The coupe in Turkey in 2016 was the plan of the west, and Turkey is awakend now.
EU and US would prefer weak Turkey, where it has no say about issues concerning it's interests. EU and US disregard Turkey national security when it comes to Syria and Eastern Medeterranian. They consider Turkey economical growth and, trade as a threat. Human right talks are used to undermine Turkey and, to accuse Turkey that it is the problem, whilst otherwise is true.
Turkey's economical growth and trade? Who sold you this lie? Turkey hasn't been in such a poor condition as it is today in decades!! The standard trolling rhetoric used by KGB. Amazing how you continue on and on like there's no other sources for people to see, to hear, to read. Pathetic..
@@lsd8497 Erdoğan vahşi kapitalizm uyguluyor. Bilerek Türk lirasını değersizleştirdi ki halk fakirleşerek ithalat yapamasın ve yerli ve patriotic ürünlere talep artsın. Enerjide de nükleere geçerek Rusya'ya bağımlılık bitsin. Cari açık kapansın. Ve böylece Türkiye'deki bütün büyük şirketler daha da büyüyecek. Avrupa'nın en ucuz işçiliği Türkiye'de olacak. Jeopolitik konumu zaten tam bir köprü olduğu için yabancı yatırımcı da böyle çekilecek (bu Erdoğan sonraki dönem için geçerli olacak. Çünkü Özgürlük, laiklik ve hukuk Erdoğan ile olmaz. Halkı fakirleştirdiği için bir sonraki seçimleri kazanması Hayal. Yani muhalefet hata yapmazsa Erdoğan gidecek.). Ayrıca Türk lirası değersizleştiği için turistik gelirler de ülke içinde artacak. Ancak halk ezilecek. Kısaca kapitalist çakma bir Çin modeli uyguluyor Tayyip. Ve kendi sonunu hazırlıyor.
Interesting to look at this now with Finland and Sweden applying to join NATO and Turkey's response. Turkey is a great history and is a beautiful country and everyone I met there was very hospitable.
The west will never allow Turkey to go. They view it as too strategically located vis Russia to let it go. They will keep it and overlook Erdogan's troublesome behaviour. And he knows it too and is going to push the envelope as much as possible.
Thanks. I think this is exactly how many policy makers view the situation. They might as well keep Turkey wishing NATO, the CoE and the OSCE, rather than push it out. And I agree that Erdogan knows this well!
@@JamesKerLindsay it will come to a point that all Nato partners will go against Turkey we know some are the moment because Erdogan is getting too big for his boots even his own people are against him because of his aggressive behaviour...thinking that his the big boy in the region, his pushing his neighbours to the brink of war as we all know ..and yet hasn’t got the nuts to do anything because he is not sure he will be the winner..
Turkey is a precious NATO ally, and is really good at playing you fools. EU, US, UK patiently await as Erdogan fulfills the West's "Turkish expansion" plan to integrate into one MASSIVE economy and screw over Russia, Iran, and China. This is spoken about throughout wikileaks.
@@JamesKerLindsay they need to be cautious since if they go too far there will be massive tensions between everyone which is not in the interest of any party
This is a really one sided view of things! You portray things as if solely Turkey is responsible for the rift. It usually takes two for a tango. From the perspective of Turkey, things appear somewhat different than your narrative. 1. The US and the EU is trying to forge a kurdish state along the border of Turkey ==> Not because it is attracted to Kurds and their lifestyle but more due to the fact, that it further destabilises the region. The typical divide et impera policy as seen in the Serves treaty. Therefore Terrorist organisations are not only supported but also fully politically backed. This is a threat to the very existence of Turkey and can not be accepted. Even if the price tag is to completely break up with the EU and the West. 2.For over 50 years Turkey is at the footsteps of Europe with hope to be regarded as an equal member. As someone living in the EU, all along it was clear for me that there never was an intention to accept Turkey as a full and equal member. The only objective was to use Turkey for your own political gains. 3. It is quite hypocritical not to sell a nato member such as Turkey the Patriot weapon systems and penalise Turkey for buying the S-400, which is a defensive weapon system. F-35 are delivered to Saudi Arabia but not to Turkey. Do they have a higher level of democracy than Turkey? It is not understandable why it is ok for the US to have hundreds of people locked down in Guantanomo without any trial for years and it is acceptable for the EU but in case of one person for Turkey all hell breaks loose. 4.It is simply not acceptable that Greece tries to extend its sea borders from 6 to 12 miles to the contrary of the signed Lausanne Treaty and the Montreaux sea conventions. Turkey will and cannot accept that the aegian becomes a greek sea, and turkish merchant ships pay money to reach the mediterannian! Russia and Iran seems to be a much more reliable partner since Turkey can speak openly with this nations and most of the time reach an agreement. The EU and the west however have a hidden agenda! ====> If you have friends and allies such as the US and the EU you definitely dont need any foes.
Turkey has been the war ally of USA,Europe and NATO since Korea war,Vietnam war,Yugoslavia civil war,Irak war,Kuwait war,Libya war,Syria war,Caucasian war and ……..??? Make your house clean first before anything else.
@Ahmet Ertekin i would like to clarify some things regarding your 4th point, first of all there is NO clause within the Treaty of Lausanne that explicitly prohibits Greece to extend its sea borders to 12 miles, when the treaty was signed according to the law of the sea (during that time) the territorial waters of every country could extend up to 3 nautical miles, later on this was changed to 6 nautical miles and in 1982 the United Nations Law of the Sea Convention allows the maximum territorial waters to 12 nautical miles. Secondly the "Montreaux sea convention" is a convention that was established in 1936 giving control of the Bosphorus & Dardanele straits to Turkey with certain rules regarding military vessels, it has nothing to do with Greece or its territorial waters. Third any merchant ship according to the international law of the sea has the FREE right of passage through ANY territorial waters of ANY country, this means that Greece could NEVER make the turkish merchant ships PAY any money, they would have free passage! In case of the 12 nautical miles only the Turkish Navy (military) would have to be granted permission to pass through certain areas. Therefore i don't see how Greece could harm Turkeys economy by extending its territorial waters up to 10 or 12 nautical miles, unless Turkey has grander schemes that involve its Navy (military) and its ability to move more easily around the Aegean Sea.
Ahmet..the Aegean Sea will not become Greek. It has been Greek for 10.000 years. That why its called Aegean. Turks are mongols that came to the region. In In Anatolia Greek states were established and prosperous long before your herds came to the region from far east. Yes, you need Greece's permeation to enter the Aegean, and we will make sure you will always have to ask for it.
@@Ghanfort that is again a very one sided view. According to the Lausanne peace Treaty which is signed by Greece and Turkey the islands were left to Greece under the premisse that the sea borders extend to 3 nautical Miles! Furthermore this treaty also states that these islands have to stay unarmed! Greece clearly is in violation of this today! It has extended its sea borders to 6 miles in the year 1936 and seeks to further extend its borders to 12 miles! Anyone who says this would not undermine Turkey‘s economic interests is whether naiv or completely biased! Turkey would not be allowed to do fishing in the whole of the agean sea. Turkey would not have a share on the riches of the aegean sea such as the Gas reserves that lies beneath it! Not only Turkey but all Countries who posseses a port on the black sea would almost not be able to pass its warships to the meditarrenian sea! Greece already accepted in a similar situation in favor of italy that it would back down from its claims to expand its sea borders to 12 miles on the ionic sea! The same is the case between UK and France at the Channel! According to sea law only archipel countries are permitted to extend there borders to 12 miles! Greece is clearly not an archipel state! Even countries like the US oppose the 12 mile regulation. For this to happen there has to be an agreement with all involving countries such as an agreement between Turkey and all the blacksea countries! The only valid agreement which is signed by Greece and Turkey is the Treaty of Lausanne! This treaty clearly does not state that the aegean is solely a greek sea. Greece has to share it with Turkey if it ever intends to make use of its gas reserves! Clearly weapon systems that are installed on this islands have to be pulled back otherwise the treaty that gave these islands to Greece will be invalid!
Nobody is talking about releasing Julein Assange from British prison. Yet if it somebody in Turkey or Iran or China, all the so called defenders of human rights countries start jumping.
That is true. The western countries have their crimes. But that does not mean that Turkish, Iranian or Chinese governments are innocent. When large enough power concentrates into one entity, that entity cannot be challanged with law. We need to replace all central powerhouses such as states and large enough corparations with well-coordinated decentralised organisations. We don't have the means or technology to do this yet. But we can have someday.
The case of Assange is not similar at all; Assange was tried in the UK, a country with one of the longest traditions of rule of law and judicial independence, and the UK court actually held in his favor. Not really comparable with what happens in countries ruled by brutal authoritarian regimes like Turkey, where thousands have been imprisoned without a fair trial, since the judicial system has been purged and is directly controlled by the Turkish government. Also, the ECtHR never issued a judgement ordering the UK to release Assange.
What Assange did was to endanger the lives of those working for western interests - which might or might not be of thoroughly good cause it has to be said (is there perfect politics on this planet?). However there is no relationship between what he did and the defense of freedom and liberty unless one thinks giving the ISIS people or Taliban people a chance to identify and behead their opponents is an act of defending freedom.
I think other countries specifically china have risen up and the center of power is no longer definitely in Europe. It makes more sense to pursue its own policy in 2021 instead of orienting toward Europe. I just hope that all the counties can cooperate. I think Turkey is trying to pursue good relations with all countries, but some of these countries hate each other so how do you be friends with everyone. Not easy, but this is what Turkey is trying to do I feel.
You neglected to mention China is actively trying to take economic and political control of Europe while trying to cut their own ties to force them to bend to China
@@JamesKerLindsay It doesn't have a western foundation, it had a western coat of paint over a central Asian people and Arabian religion, a coat of paint added by a few reformist and maintained out of pragmatism during the cold war, it's not surprising it's flaking. And as Barua mentions, If the modern west has no respect for itself, it can't expect respect from others, much less admiration, Turkey (and others) would rather carve their own path now.
I mean I agree TURKEY IS NOT WESTERN. But.... Arabian religion ? :) Do you guys realize that Christianity is from middle-east and is as semitic as Islam right :) White Jesus doesn't exist ;)
@@rosameltrozo5889 Christianity and islam both are from middle east.amd middle east geographyly in asia.European converted into middle eastern religion
I wander if they'll wait for the next election in (2023), before making a final decision in regards to moving away from Turkey ? I hear that the Turkish population are getting fed up with his Immigration and Economic Policies.
Thank you. Great point. I think there is a growing sense, in Turkey and abroad, they the next elections could really be crucial for the country. If Erdogan wins again, then that may well be it. But there are questions about whether the opposition could win. But many also wonder whether that’s would be enough. Turkey has been so transformed over the past 20 years it seems hard to imagine that it could return to its previous form. It is such an interesting country, and one that changed more than any other in the 30 years that I have been following its politics.
@@Kalimdor199Menegroth Lived in Saudi and the UAE for over 18 years. I've seen some big changes. They're forward thinkers when it comes to Politics. Apart from the Yemen fiasco of course.
@kuvikina Well we can say the same about many countries in the West. We can also talk about how erdogan uses Refugees as a bargaining chip with Europe.
@kuvikina Speaking of hypocrites. Isn't Turkey's closest Allie Qatar? A simple research will show you, how they treat their workers. I think you need to grow up and understand that this is to do with Turkey. No one is an angel. That would be a lie and its how the world works unfortunately.
As a half Turkish Australian, Erdoğan really upsets me. He is disgracing all the work Atatürk and Turks spent their lives to achieve, turning Turkey into a modern, secular, westernised state, and simultaneously puts his own portraits up next to Atatürk, portraying himself as an equal, or even as a supporter of Atatürk. It's disgusting and he's taking advantage of the poorly educated in Turkey as their saviour & a "soldier of Islam". Rumour has it he made a lot of his money smuggling drugs in and out of the country using Kurdish militias and then increasing the persecution of Kurds to rid himself of any possible issues later, but those are just rumours. Thanks for your video.
Thank you so much. You make a really important point. There are many millions in Turkey and beyond who feel really angry about what Erdogan has done. The interesting thing was that for the first few years of the AKP administration there was a real sense that it was actually helping Turkey. The problem was that under the previous political system, Turkey was in fact caught in a time warp. It had become fixated on the Kemalist vision, but without any sense of keeping up with the times. I have worked on Turkey for 30 years and I remember the political chaos of the 1990s. I used to have discussions with people in Turkey about what Ataturk would have thought of Turkey by the end of that decade. The country was a mess. At the time, Erdogan looked like a new modernising force who would bring some stability to the country and hopefully push it towards the EU. And at first that's exactly how he seemed. The trouble is that it didn't last. The big debate is whether this was always his plan. Did he always plan to use the EU to undermine the military's power. Or was it a case that once he had done this, he realised that he now had complete control. It is a fascinating debate.
@kuvikina jeez you are stupid Turks only xmw to anatolia in 11th century before theat is was greek /armenian land . And you saying anatolia is no man's land is literally the arguments of the brits when colonising australia
Thank you for your analysis, but I have to say, you are missing many important points and only focusing Turkish governments mistakes (as you believe). There are many other factors which causing Turkey to become more distant towards to western states, as an example, they are openly supporting terror groups against TR in or around Turkey's borders.
It is a grate loss to not only the messy west, but to eu as the whole. No one has the minimal inteligance to ask: WHY IS IT ALL, WHAT IS BEHINDE, WHO/WHY IS ORCASTRITING SUCH A WORLD DETERIATION, WHERE EVER ONE LOOKS !
The human rights in Turkey before Erdogan were not any better. Except that when human rights abuse go in a specific direction, we hear less about them. Compare Erdo to Sissi, to the Algerian junta....and more. As long as Turkey has the bosphorus, there will always be a common ground to be found, and Erdo nows that.
Thanks. You are quite right. That's why I did mention that the early stages of the Erdogan/AKP administration saw some major improvements in human rights, before they were rolled back. I remember a Turkish academic telling me in despair twenty years ago how the police were complaining that it was harder to get criminals to confess with the new respect for human rights! And great point about Western Turkey being the key to the West! I should perhaps take a look at the internal dynamics within Turkey at some point.
Erdogan gets seated by majority of people sisi came too coup. No comparison valid. You need to check your self. Human rights? Julian assange or whatever his last name is jailed where? And why? Joking or simply ignorant?
@@JamesKerLindsay Human Rights unfortunately is highly politicized.. To be in good books with human rights in the media all u have to do is slave to the West after all, all major media corporations and moguls are Western Western Culture is Universal Culture at least for a century now and perhaps more years to come however I don't think it will last
The real question is whether Turkey was ever a part of western world and not just a very good ally of the West. Military’s high engagement in politics such as the coup 1997, denial of existence of Kurds until 1991 and oppression against all the minorities do not signify a society based on western values. I would rather say that Western world turned a blind eye towards these problems until now..
@@alican3920 Most of the ex-goverments of Turkey managed Turkey better than him. Ecevit, Demirel, İnönü. I am excluding Atatürk because he is not comparable to any world leader.
@@yamanyilmazer6513 the real question is , after all those purges and more or less the absolute control of media by Ak is it even possible for someone to win the elections over Erdogan?
@@Pavlos_Charalambous possible . 8 million young Turks will vote next year. most likely he will lose, but there is no one left to trust the west. We realized that we were alone in erdogan's time
Can you please explain the definition of a "Western State"? İ see people use the term a lot without explaining what makes western country different from a non-western country. Also i think that Turkey has always been the "other" when it comes to these comparisons. İt's a country that tried to be part of the west but wasn't originally part of it.
it means basic ideas of democracy, like free and fair elections, human rights, law and order, secularism, free speech etc. While these are not perfectly exercised in western countries themselves, theocratic and autocratic countries who just control everyone and everything would be considered a non-western country
Like Mahi said, it's about meeting a minimal standard for democracy, human rights and a respect for the rule of law and international treaties. It's less about white colonialism as very much European states (Poland, Hungary) often get accused of not meeting these standards. It's more about knowing who you can trust / be partners with in modern day geopolitics / the new cold war era.
We have hundreds of knives in our backs and westerners say why is Turkey moving away from us?Now we are only interested in common interests.Erdogan or anyone else, Turkey's steps towards rights and security are fixed and will not change.Those who serve European and US interests will continue to be punished.In the past, when patriotic people faced false accusations, Europe and the USA did not speak up, why are they shouting now?
Oh really? So are you going to remove your troops from Cyprus and stop illegally occupying a country that is not yours? How about eastern Mediterranean sea? Will you sign the UNCLOS and stop claiming a territory that does not belong to Turkey as yours? You guys even signed an agreement with half of Libya that you have common borders....I find you very modest....why not sign with Tynisia, so you have the entire Mediterranean sea?
@atakan True Erdogan did , because he considers that this is the deeper wish of his people , to quit the West . You cannot become a world Muslim leader from Balkans to Alaska and still belong to the West. All crazy leaders want more and more . Hitler said in 1933 : Today Germany , tomorrow the world. And he hid a war which he lost. Erdogan will go same way. No wonder with so nany enemies created all around him. Hitler did exactly the same
It has not left, neither Wedt nor East. But, it has kicked out the colonialism rule of West. Does not obey anymore the poison of Western hegemony. Well done 🇹🇷
LoL, it is correct. I am Turkish but when a european see something about islam, they directly think about the Turks. I mean Turks represent islam for europeans but we Turks are not much religious anymore. Other muslim countries practice religion but my people do not it anymore. Anyway, we are on our way.
Well, we can now see for sure that Turkey stands shoulder to shoulder with their NATO allies, as they have since WW2. They are a huge part of the alliance and Russia would do almost anything to get them out. Thanks and love to Turkey from Canada.
Maybe. But no one is forcing it to be a member of any of the organisations. If it doesn’t like the rules, it can leave. But it seems it won’t. So it has to accept the conditions.
When I was growing up in the 90-s, USSR broke up, freedom was in the air, everywhere people were talking about new relations, democracy, Fukuyama's end of history, prosperity. But man plans, god laughs. History merely just made a circle. 20 years later, it is stark obvious that the world is divided as never before, between rich and poor, Christians and Muslims, refugees and nationalists. We played nice for long enough, now it's time to get back to fighting.
IT IS IMPERATIVE that no Eurasian challenger emerges capable of dominating EurasiA and thus of also challenging America - Zbignew Brzezinski Spykman Wolfowitz etc...
Turkey has its own geopolitical intrests. The West tries to blame Turkey for its behaviour but the anti Turkey Policy of the West is the reason why Turkey behaves the way it behaves. You can't expect from turkey to do nothing whereas the US and Europe Supports YPG and PKK. Give asylum to the Gulen movement members and don't hand out Fethullah Gülen. Turkey is in need of an Air defence system. THE US doesn't want to sell their Air defence system but doesn't want Turkey to buy it elswhere either. In the egean sea the West only Supports Greece. If you are Turkey and you are Allied with the West you don't need enemies. Turkey's behaviour ist only a reaction of the anti Turkish Policy of US and Europe. Turkey should have joined the Soviet Union. Turkey doesn't need tratiors allies Like EU and Nato.
What you don't mention your analysis is that Turkey (and Turks of other countries like Az) were never accepted by the so called West. In the heart of it, perhaps its religion that has always kept Turkey at the "outsider" camp. I'm an atheist, I've had numerous intellectual conversations with people of European origin, there is always a non-spoken feeling that says: you are no doubt not one of us. Nothing can change this in my experience, so time to stop fooling ourselves.
Thanks. As it happens, I completely agree. And I did try to get across the point that many did get the impression that the EU was. "Christian Club". This was always a huge problem. Many countries, most notably Austria, never really tried to hide their fundamental opposition to Turkish membership. In this sense, I understand why many in Turkey feel angry and aggrieved at what has happened. The problem, though, is that Turkey hasn't always been a good partner. It has often flirted with others, such as Russia. (It even did so during the Cold War.) It has also had serious problems with democracy and human rights. This has given ammunition to its opponents. Overall, it is a rather tragic story of failure on both sides.
@@JamesKerLindsay Your analysis was BIAS .democracy 😂😂. Europe and US support some of most brutal regime in the world No Arabs country has democracy Isresl is an Aparthied state ( World Only) what is democracy tho?? Hamas wonn a " western style and design Democratic election in GAZA monitor designate as FREE and FAIR by West Yet Itscnot recognizes ..Since when recognizing World only aparthied state is bench mark for d" democracy "?? HONESTLY I DONT EXPECT YOU TO RESPOND TO ME.... CAUSE YOU HAVE NO RESPOND.... ! I JUST LEAVING RHIS HERE TO EXPOSE YOU SO CALL WESTERN HYPOCRISY YEAH!
Sorry. But I have no time for anti-vaccination positions. Not usually and certainly not on Covid. I am just getting over a case of Covid. I am double vaccinated and it still put me in bed for over a week. I have no doubt that I would have been significantly worse without vaccination. Now, you may argue that it is your right to choose. I disagree. The unvaccinated are more likely to spread this, and as we know that even the vaccinated can become ill, the unvaccinated are therefore a very real health risk to others. They also put a huge and deliberate strain on the health services. And the idea of herd immunity gained through “natural immunity” with this disease is deeply immoral. To get to that point means deliberately killing hundreds of thousands. As you can tell, I have no time for such thinking. Anti-vaccination comes down to anti-science, selfishness or fear. Whatever the reasons, it is contrary to the good of society. Sorry, but I feel very strongly about this!
@@JamesKerLindsay Well said. I too am tired of equating what is a public health issue with a so-called "personal liberty" issue. They are not comparable and, in this instance, downright dangerous, self-centered, and myopic.
When the same man has ruled a country for nearly 2 decades, how much of it is the country, and how much of it is just the man? Granted, we shouldn't treat Turkey as if it's all the same as Istanbul. Istanbul was western since before 1453.
@@SAMUEL532150 And they shall remain non existant from now on. After Erdogan's shenanigans, I don't see the Turkish government backing down anytime soon.
@@SAMUEL532150 Okay, go to Turkey and you will see all these things are available, don't believe what the western countries show you, they just make themselves look good
Your analysis has touched on the subject very well, the country has become this way with the current government's headstrong, I know movement. I have hope that the people will put an end to this mismanagement in 2023. 🇹🇷
@@edrowlands1719 It's just a propaganda term used to describe leaders they don't like who just so happen to be Muslim. What they forget is Erdogan is still a secular leader, he didn't undo any of the secular laws of Turkey in his 20 year rule
@@moko8870 It's just a propaganda term used to describe leaders they don't like who just so happen to be Muslim. What they forget is Erdogan is still a secular leader, he didn't undo any of the secular laws of Turkey in his 20 year rule. Don't fall for their propaganda
We Turks from Hungary to Yakutia and eastern Turkestan should finally stop relying either to the west or to China or to Russia or to Islam. we are one of the most powerful and great nations. it's time to create our own center of power, politically and militarily and economically. The sun will rise again over the Turkic East. Long live the united Turkic world from Hungary to Japan and East Turkestan. 🇦🇿🇹🇷🇰🇿🇺🇿🇹🇲🇰🇬🇭🇺🇯🇵🇲🇳🇰🇷
@SaracenGamer I don't mind these countries destroying themselves, what bothers me is than when their Islamic states turn to shit, they emigrate to our non-Muslim countries and bring the thing that ruined them with them
@SaracenGamer I'm still trying to figure out which Muslim dominated countries turned to democracy and secularism. Can you tell me which Muslim dominated countries did that and later turned to shit as you claim?
Turkey is planning ahead, it can see that once the USD collapses and the most indebted nations will also collapse withit. Future is in the East with Russia and China (hopefully India as well)
And as a reward for accepting to be a strategic base during the Golf War against IRAQ, the US promised Turkey a future membership in the EU,..... so generous from the US, but it did freeze definitively European enthusiasm
@@ioannisimansola7115 Guaranty it, no, but many European countries are very weak against US lobbying.For the US, Europe is not much more than south America : an dominion, their backyard
LOL The US made no such promise, the US isn't part of the EU they have no control over who is a member. And no the US doesn't have dominion over the EU the EU has been at odds with the US many times. This is like idiotic Turkish Nationalist propaganda.
Sadly, there was key information left out of this analysis. The problems that Turkey had with joining the EU were not caused by Turkey but by the growth of Islamaphobia in France and Austria, both of which passed laws that will specifically require referendums to approve Turkish EU accession. Then the joining of Cyprus into the EU in 2005 meant that Turkey now had an implacable enemy which opposed every step that Turkey tried to take to pass each chapter. Cyprus was supported in these objections by Greece where and opinion poll showed 75% opposed to Turkish EU membership. Turkey began to understand that there was no chance of EU membership and the pressure for reform to meet the EU conditions died away. And quite understandably there was an increasing lack of enthusiasm among Turkish people to join the, EU. Most Turkish people I speak too have long said that they didn't want to join a club that didn't want them. Finally, there is now a feeling among most Turks that the EU has passed its sell by date and is not worth joining. Meanwhile, the Turkish government is looking towards the east. Not just to Russia (Turkey has just agreed to buy a second S400 defense system and to enter into joint arms production with Russia!) but also to China with whom Turkey has formed a strategic alliance. I suspect that its future trajectory is going to be to join the Eurasian Shanghai Cooperation Organisation.
Maybe Turkey should withdraw it's armed forces and the illegal occupation of Northern Cyprus, for the republic of Cyprus and Greece to not oppose Turkeys EU membership!
@@Zappuify Those dreams do not matter so much anymore, in an indirect way the occupation serves the neighbours well!! The occupiers might have won the battle on Cyprus but not the war... It's called karma!
@@nikim5051 He/She who says this is a stupid but nothing more. Just open a map and see how strategically Island Cyprus is important for Turkey's mainland defence. Turkey will never let Island Cyprus be in hands of an enemy power. Full stop.
@kuvikina Turkey is the only NATO country with troops in Syria, Cyprus, Iraq, Libya and Qatar while threatening Egypt, Israel, and NATO members Greece and France. It's also playing with Russia to extract concessions from the United States.
When Ataturk was single-handedly abolishing religious and traditional values, where were those human-rights shouters to ask him: did you take your people's consent? Did you hold an election to know if Turks want azan to be banned? Did you consult people when you were switching to the latin alphabet over night? Where were the defenders of human rights? Ohh, I'm sorry, I should correct myself: western rights. In view of the west, only those who are like them or support them are human and deserve their rights to be given.
@@brucewillixaspirinix9652 your comment actually proved my point! What you said is a showcase of the real atttitude of the west: "comply with our orders" under the disguise of "freedom of speech"; "our elite law" under the disguise of " democracy and people for people"; and "west rights" under the disguise of "human rights". And they did not come to Rome; Romans came to them with weapons trying to shove democracy down everyone's throat. And guess what? Apart from some ignorant who were duped by the 'apparent' righteousness of those made-up terms, the rest did not swallow it (and are still not); they've just spit it right back at their faces. You have every right to desire your own culture, but you don't have the right to lie about it and disguise the truth. So please stay in your Rome, and practice/worship your culture as much as you want, for yourselves!
Firstly turkeys accession to the European Union began in the late 90’s before erdogan and the akp party. European countries from the late 90’s always made it clear they did not want a Muslim nation with such a large population entering its ranks. Thus they adopted the carrot and stick approach with turkey. For a long time turkey had a ‘zero problems with neighbours policy’ but unfortunately countries like Greece tried to take advantage of this with delimiting maritime zones. For years Turkey requested military equipment but constantly found its needs not supplied. Thus Turkey has taken a multi polar approach, it shouldn’t need to only stick to the west it should have options and that is what it is doing, by being more self reliant it is freeing itself from the status quo.
Thank you. I completely agree. I know that the relationship hasn’t always been easy, and that Turkey hasn’t always been treated well, but I do think that Turkey should have an EU future. I hope relations can be rebuilt in future.
@@JamesKerLindsay I hope that most of the Turks see how Erdoğan’s propaganda work, I believed many years in him, the life that I life is absolutely different that he wouldn’t respect me but I still believed him
@Nadir Hikmet Kuleli tabii canim, I am the one who‘s dangerous, bro I believed all the years Erdogan before I saw every part of the Picture wich Erdogan is drawing
The situation has massively changed since the Russian invasion of Ukraine as the West calls up its friends to stand with Ukraine - yet Turkey is still walking a fine line.
You forgot to say that west wanted to give a coup d'etat in 2016 and the west still want to do that to up until now. Turkey has the reason to be like that.
Yet another great video Mr. Kerr-Lindsay. I like to think of myself as somewhat knowledgeable on the basic histories and geopolitics of every region, it turns out I knew next to nothing about Turkey. I’m glad to see your channel getting more subscribers but I still maintain it is very underrated.
Thank you so much Alex! Turkey is a fascinating country, in so many ways. I have been working on it for about 30 years now and it has been so interesting to see how it has changed. And thanks as ever for the really kind words about the channel! :-)
Excellent analysis. I would still go with the optimist option. The Turks, although Muslim, are very much a Western society in their lifestyle and view on things nowadays. It's a country which is a lot closer to Greece, Hungary or Bulgaria (culturally and economically) than it is to Syria or Iraq. In the end it's the peoples spirit that will decide where it's headed. And from this point of view, Turkey will eventuall anchor herself to the West for good. While Turkey may seem like it's much more "Eastern" oriented for the time being, this is nevertheless more of a political stance, not a cultural stance. Ever since the Ottomans conquered Istanbul Turkey has been more of a Western power than an Eastern power. It has always been focused on conquering, embracing, and eventually being part of the Western world.
What is there left with EU? The EU itself is self deteriorating organization waiting to collapse. You forgot about Britain's Brexit? While Turkey has announced nothing but is it EU really worth it nowaday?
This is a line I keep haring, but I don't see any evidence of this. The EU has its problems. But look around, where doesn't? It is still the largest trading bloc in the world. And I'm not sure that Brexit is a particularly good advertisement for leaving the EU, to be honest! :-)
Rather the West left turkey, turkey waited too long to be a member in the European union but with no result .,now turkey is going its own way ,now turkey is a strong country.
On one side is western world , other side is Eastern world. Turkey needs to have relation with both sides. But must put itself in a strong position. Like ertugrul did. 😀
@@mohamedasaid7910 when i first visited in 90s, the tourist guide was demonstrating about "European and Asian " sides! Later, when i frequently visited on work, i realised it was farce: Turkey doesnt like to belong to Asia , nor does Europe want to own them, with Caliph Erdogan precipitating furthur! Hmm
The problem could be your biased perception or dislike of Erdogan. Turkey is a secular state. If they have a President who is a good Muslim and who makes you unhappy that is your problem. At least he is not a fanatic like Modi of India where Muslims are facing many hardships
I think it's very difficult for Turkey to change. What we must have in mind is that Erdogan is in charge for almost 20 years. Practically a whole generation of Turks haven't known anything else. Also, especially the last years, Turkish policy is totally aggressive and mititiralistic. Invasion in Syria, Invasion in Iraq, immediate interference in the war between Armenia- Azerbaijan, troops in Libya...lots of troubles with Cyprus and Greece and aggressive rhetoric...it's not easy to transform in a peaceful, normal country just with a government change...
Turkish youth is mostly anti erdogan. It is a thing in Turkey at the moment. But if you think Greece and Cyprus can get away with an another leader you are wrong. You are not right in east med and aegean sea.
@@jackholler3572 we are 100% right in the Aegean and we have a very strong position legally in the east Mediterranean. But this is not the point and it's definitely not in mine or yours expertise to judge. The point is that Turkey is the one that denies to take the case to the international courts as any other civilized nation would. We may be right, may be not, well, that is the reason we have the legislation and the courts if we disagree.
@@spiroskarikis9433 No Turkey offers Greece to go to international court with the demilitarization of the eagean islands but Greece refuses. Greece is %100 wrong in mid east and aegean tgat no one supports it.
It's not only Turkey which is against the west but the whole world. Have a look at the reactions coming from Latin America, Africa and Asia concerning the involvement of of the west in their countries. In my prediction the west would soon be isolated due to their lack of considering and treating others like a half human beings, they should be ready to reap the fruits of the bitter seeds they had planted.
Thanks. You make a really good point. It is very easy to be critical of Western countries. But the alternative really isn't better. In many western countries there are human rights organisations and other NGOs that criticise companies about their behaviour. They often come under real scrutiny, and even media pressure. This doesn't happen with Russia and China. There is no internal oversight of their activities, let alone domestic pressure to moderate their behaviour.
@@JamesKerLindsay I agree with that however, I think the world has already seen the ugliness of over dependence on foreign countries. Each continent should stand for itself.
@@JamesKerLindsay Human Rights organisations are there to justify imperialism and war against poor defenceless countries. Why aren't the NGOs speaking out against France's anti separatism law which was used to shut down anti extremist Mosques? Where is the ECHR on that? Yeah no where to be found. Are you saying France should leave? Nope. So this all Western imperialism and colonialism. Muslims should not believe in the West's narrative that pushes for colonialism of poor and powerless countries.
Accurate, unbiased and profound analysis as usual. I also appreciate your personal vision of the future perspectives and alternatives that the country has. * Just for the record: Turkey joined NATO in 1952, not 1950.
@@mrtwisster4225 True to that. And as James mentioned in the video, the West prefers to keep the turks in Nato than to chase them out. That would increasingly weaken NATO's eastern front and thus give Russia much more power in the Black Sea region. I also believe that despite the diplomats' issue, the U.S would prefer to sell the F-35's to Turkey, not just for the sake of business and money but not to allow Turkey''s swing in the East. We all remember how outrageous the US was after Erdogan purchased the S-400 system from Russia.
The Western ambassadors violated the Vienna Convention. Also there's no mechanism to "kick out" someone from NATO, and it would be a huge loss for U.S. as Turkey is a powerful country of 80 mililion people. Turkey actually has a real army compared to some other NATO states like Latvia.
I fail to see how a fairly anodyne statement about living up to your obligations under international treaties is a violation of the Vienna Convention. If it is, then the US government and most western governments commit such infractions on an essentially daily basis.
I disagree that they violated the Vienna Convention. Turkey is a member of the Council of Europe. It is obliged to abide by the rulings of the ECHR. In this regard, the ambassadors had every right to remind the Turkish Government of its international obligations. Of course, if Turkey doesn't want to abide by those rulings, then the answer is to leave. Then it could legitimately argue that no one has the right to tell it want to do. But, if you want the advantages of being in a club, then you have to accept the club's rules - including the right of other members to tell you when you are breaking those rules!
Turkey is part of the ME and not European. Look at the long history of Turkey and you will see that Turkey has and will always be an integral part of Asia.
What do you know about about Turkey's history. Europe is not a one entity. Which Europe do you talk about. Spain, Sweden, Poland or greece or romenia, Bulgaria.? You are good at segregation and discrimination.
What does EU suggest Turkey do about the coup attempt and the putschists? We started the video about the problem of past coups in Turkey, and another coup fails, that is a problem, too?
Three days in a row I am devouring your videos. Great video James as always! Through your work I discover a more balanced viewpoint supported by explicit reference to legal texts.
Erdogan has ambitions that threat several countries. He sees Turkey as a regional power and DEMANDS from everyone to consulate him before they act. When they don't ask for his permission he gets angry.
This video missed so many fact points that one wonders what purpose it serves.. I was born, and spent 50 years of my life in Turkey, and I have always been anti-Russia, anti-China, and anti-Totalitarians regimes, pro multi-part democracy person. When anybody wants to discuss Turkey, that person must start from who was behind 1960, 1980, 28 February, July-15 Military's Coup? If one ignores all these, it means he is one of the those who took part in those actions that can be considered crime against humanity. Including YOU Mr. Lindsay. Europe, and America talks about democracy, and when Turkish Prime Minister get hanged by military, they do NOT even protests. I am really pro-western democracy Turk, but I do NOT see that western countries wanting democracy in Turkey. Mr. Lindsay making big issue of Osman Kavala's being in prison. Let me ask 2 questions; 1-)Where and whom was he during 15-Temmuz night? 2-) Was he sponsored by George Soroz who is behind color-revolutions in former Russian Republics? Is it clear to explain what purpose this video serves?
Ah, so this is the Soros conspiracy theory corner. :-) By the way, at one point I was in fact an Open Society scholar in Kosovo and North Macedonia. You know what I did? You won’t like it. It was really terrible. And I feel so guilty about it now. I was paid to visit twice a year to help young up and coming scholars at several universities develop their teaching and research capabilities. Scary evil stuff!!!
@Aloe Vera Or that you label thing you feel that dont agree with your opinion "brain-washing" because you cant ditinguiss opinion from fact... Because most of what this guy does is statements of... well things that happen... events, meetings and stuff, and if he mentions something that is more of a qualitative analisys has a citation on the description for sourses... so if ou want to tell them this is brainwashing you better bring some good arguments cause this man is making academic quality content on youtube, and you are... defending a George Soros conspiracy theory...?
if turkey wanted democracy, voting for Erdoğan in the first place was a mistake. silly conspiracy aside, turkey needs to actually want to be democratic, and then it will become so. voting for religion over order, and strong men over law will only ever get you into clubs with terrible countries.
With Turkey out (in all but formality), Ukraine, Georgia held at arms length, value squabbles in East Europe suggest that the West is receding. Peaceful co-existence between West and non-West is more and more negative. NATO plans to name China in next strategy documents means the chance of the world westernising, or the West offering itself as a big tent with flexibility for the world is fadding. What we see is an increasingly exclusive club. A growing fortress mentality.
It really does look like Europe is in inexorable decline. We (US) are also in the process of pivoting our attention to the Indo-Pacific. It’s remarkable how much Europe has declined in influence in the past century, to the point where countries like Russia and Turkey can shit at the EU and get away with it!
@@khaldrago911 May I suggest that it is because no one ever unified Europe. Today EU is not in control of foreign policy, every member has right to veto any EU f.p. intiative. Only NATO offers common defense and only if attacked. It is not able to present a united front in the case of Ukraine or Georgia which are non-Nato.
First off NATO has to have realistic goals. Defending Georgia and Ukraine aren't realistic. The West backed Russian control of the Ukraine in WW1 and WW2 more or less. After the Soviet state collapsed Russia was allowed to keep bases in Crimea and we made Ukraine give up the nukes on it's territories which is the only way it could've guaranteed it's own security. Historically the West has always been willing to throw Ukraine under the bus. Georgia is too remote to even seriously consider. Whatever happened there in 2007 or 2008 was.a farce. Adding central Europe to the alliance was a hell of an expansion and the logical limit of the alliance. Expanding into the Baltic states was a mistake. All of the former Soviet states at least the ones near or bordering NATO should be non aligned like Finland.
Not objective enough. Turkey had far better and longer democratic political and liberal economic tradition than the countries that was accepted to EU in 2004 and 2008. But by keeping Turkey away, EU deliberately punished Turkey, because of own irrational cultural fears and biases.
@@JamesKerLindsay The issue is about partial tone of your story. You tell the developments after 2005 as if Turkey converted into autocracy for no obvious reason but Erdogan's personal tendencies. That is clearly not the case. You continue then by claiming Erdogan purged opposition in 2013. Also not the case. Erdogan purged its own allies, who he no longer didn't want to share the power. The opposition was mainly the CHP and army. And they were not purged, on the contrary, they were freed from prisons, which they were held for years based on bogus claims. Do I need tell more about objectivity?
Russia also Christian country. Ideas that Turkey has to follow EU policy which is not part and waiting EU for 50years when Poland that jumped in queue to be EU because it’s has cross symbol on neck, don’t Follow any EU rules! I call hypocrisy and no moral standards!
my friend, as a Turk living in Turkey, I can say that we are all tired of Erdogan's foreign and domestic policies, he will definitely not be elected to the 2023 elections
Thank you. This has been a really interesting point raised in a few comments. I completely agree. The 2023 elections will indeed be absolutely crucial.
Erdogan will absolutely be re-elected because Erdogan is who counts the votes. It's gonna take a bloody coup to remove Erdogan from power. Too bad the last one in 2016 didn't succeed.
@@michaelschmidt9708 you not Michael May be Ali or Mohammed Erdogan has no chance of winning with his aggressive attitude and wanting to be the master of the Region ..., he has no power in any respect his provokes all his neighbours the new Hitler of the East
And you are hoping by saying something like this you will be respected in this forum... it is the likes of you that encourages the EU to behave the way it does against your own country
With all due respect James Ker-Lindsay the West is 100% responsible for Turkey leaving the Western camp. The West knew exactly what they were doing and what they have done and what has upset Turkey. Everyone knows (expect Western people like yourself who can only see what others do to the West but not vice versa) Turkey does not care about joining the European Council, etcetera. The West should stop worrying about Turkey, the West has many internal problems for example, it is lagging behind in manufacturing, AI, blockchain, it has a birth rate problem, trade deficit, current account deficits, budget deficits and China's ambition to reunify Taiwan along with China intensifying its mission to end its trade in US$. Before the West goes on about what they should do maybe the West should keep the EU and US stable politically.
The simple is, Turkey is Samurai country. They Will kind to you if you are kind to them. Also they can be vicious to you. If you are vicious to them. Even if you are 1000 bigger, they Will sacrifice all their life to kaill you. Thats my opinion.
Bullshit. Greece tried its best to have great relations with Turkey, even establishing a state of cooperation between the two. However, Turkey and especially its demagoging leaders has been increasingly hostile due to their aversion of the international treaties, to which Greece calls it to comply. The Mavi Vatan project is expansionistic and calls for the annexation of half of the Aegean Sea. And all that is of course unprovoked.
Thanks a lot for the analysis. I think it's really difficult, if not impossible, to be pro western for Turkey, with or without current govt. But I believe the politics need to be played in a more decent way, partners everywhere should be increased as much as possible. Obviously the Kavala case is depressing for the people here and abroad, who expect more from our justice system. And apart from our very own sake in having a functional freedom of speech, we shouldn't give the opportunity to our adversaries to instrumentalise that. I think we didn't cross the Rubicon for restoration though. So I think we can see things quickly improve in that aspect.
It is not a matter of erdogan or his diplomatic stance. For decades western countries appoint arrogant ambassadors who speak without restraint against Turkey, often meddling with internal affairs and sowing discontent. As someone who hasn't voted even once for erdogan, I'm all for expelling diplomats speaking like arrogant colonial governers without limits. We don't owe anything to westerners, in fact we liberated our nation from their occupation and found a republic. Avarage turkish person doesn't care for western club, but just want to live in peace. We also don't need to be a part of EU to enjoy democracy and freedom. Get off your high horse.
There is not a single EU state wanted 95million Turks/Muslims in EU sad but true. Btw joining NATO was simple to counter USSR, clearly visible by US basses and nukes station there even today.
I aint expert in turkish geo politics defenetly, neither am i turkish. But since when Russians become turkish buddies, becouse as far as i know, it was always kinda opposite. (Aand we also had recently border conflict between azerbajan and armenia, where russians and turks supported different sides) I mean, woudnt be smart for Turkey to have some kind of, neutral stance?
Excellent analysis of the relationship between Turkey 🇹🇷 and the EU 🇪🇺. Due to the Islamist and Nationalist nature and actions of its leader Recep Erdogan, there will be more ups and downs in this relationship. Turkey as a full member of the EU ? Doubtful at best. Greetings from Germany...🍺🖐
Erdogan is an Islamist but certainly not a nationalist, he is an old man living with the neo-Ottoman dream, this hurt us a lot, but on the other hand, he really showed the hypocrisy of the European Union. I don't know who will be the prime minister who will most likely be defeated in the next elections, but EU negotiations should be ended and relations should only progress as NATO and trade.
Thank you so much. I appreciate it. I think you are right. And I think the situation could well get a lot worse in the next couple of years as Erdogan faces tough presidential and parliamentary elections in 2023. Many suspect that he may well resort to increasingly nationalist rhetoric, and even actions, to shore up his base. The problem is that even if he is defeated and a new pro-European administration takes power, a lot of damage has been done to the relationship. I think that many in Europe, even those who were previously supportive of Turkish membership, have now moved against the idea. It could well be difficult to rebuild things. But as long as Turkey nominally remains in accession talks there is hope. I'm not sure if a pro-European administration took power and really started to try to meet the conditions of membership, the EU would really have the courage to say no!
West is to blame in all this… west always acted in double standards when it comes to Turkey… it is time Turkey realigned herself in the world and not remain in the limbo as currently the situation is
I think that both sides need to take responsibility for the current state of bad relations. There is no doubt that the EU has often acted in bad faith towards Turkey. But Turkey has often behaved badly in its own way, and has far too often seemed to believe that it should be treated differently because of its size and significance. (Something Britain often did as well.)
James,it doesn't seems right to say that's the end. Those ambassadors should be expelled if they repeat those action. Its very appropriate, to take this action as a warning. Turkey 🇹🇷 is neither east nor west, they put their hands on the oppressed. For 🇹🇷 History is at its best ,and not surprised for them to repeat on bigger scale with Turkic nations are in the making
Nationalistic rhetoric from Erdogan aside, their Foreign Policy doesn't seem much different from many emerging developing countries i.e. Southeast Asia. They choose NATO or the US for security whilst diplomatically present themselves as neutral. Economically, they are focusing on diversifying trade with non-Western players. It would be amiss to associate Turkey's support for Ukraine as support for NATO when Turkey has their own designs for the Middle East and Caucasus in mind, some of which counters NATO's own goals for those regions.
Thank you so much. This is a really great suggestion! I have wanted to do some videos on the Philippines for a while. It is such an interesting country. Let me see what I can do.
Thanks. Interestingly, polls have tended to show that support for a republic is probably lowest in Canada of all the Commonwealth realms. I suspect it might be because having the Queen is one of the things that really sets it apart from the United States! :-)
James, the West has never seen Turkey as a member due to its Muslim majority and its failure to divide and conquer the land during the successful campaign by Atatürk during the Turkish War of Independence.
Thanks. I know that both sides have made mistakes, but I’ve always felt the Turkish view in the Treaty of Sevres is over exaggerated. It is long forgotten outside Turkey. 99.99% of people in the West have never heard of it. It certainly doesn’t shape Western thinking in any way. No one I’ve ever spoken to wants to see Turkey carved up.
Hello James. Do you believe that it would be possible to conduct large-scale research based on application of neorealism on frozen conflicts in post-communist European countries?That research would include Cyprus conflict, but also Kosovo, Moldova, Ukraine and others. It would mean that ethnicity, religion, language and other characteristis of ethnic groups - wouldn't have been taken into account. Only structural level of analysis based on neorealist paradigm. Thank You in advance.
I’m very saddened by this news, I yearn for a Turkey aligned with Europe and the west, not only for the Turkish people, but also to prove that traditionalist Sunni countries CAN change. Damn you Erdogan
@@MoReal2 Same these people really think that western values are universal values. İmagine going to a country like İndonesia, Thailand, Vietnam or even Brazil and telling people that democracy and human rights are universal. They would find those kind of speeches to be something called 'colonialism'. Human right and democratic values were popularized by the French and spread by the British and American empires.
Traditional Sunni countries change to become European Christian/Atheist country? Why would anyone do that? Europe looks too highly upon itself. This arrogance is destructive.
@@JamesKerLindsay Hi James! Yes it has been in NATO since the '50s and more than that. European council, observer etc. However, if you notice the rhetorics, the people of Turkey don't feel like that. Instead they feel that the west constantly disrespects them, treating them like second rate people, not giving them what they deserve historically, not recognizing their civilization as a peer to the western one, barking orders to them, just to name a few. In short they behave as if their pride is deeply wounded by almost anything. Look Erdogan's last pretense, 3 days ago, not to attend Scotland: "Oh, you don't give me the same (unique) security level with USA's president? I'm not coming." That kind of talking attracts voters in Turkey.
this writing was on the wall from the beginning of the current administration in Turkey. I have always been a proponent of policy reflecting reality as much as possible. Keeping Turkey in the European club diminishes and undermines the very meaning of that group of nations by proving key values and ideals to be optional. If Turkey is not going to be a western-style democracy, then Turkey should not be a part of the Council, the EU, or NATO. One could (and I would) say that Poland and Hungary are about one election from being in this spot as well. In some ways, the expulsion of Turkey could sharpen the focus on those countries, and force them to make the fundamental choice too, and if European institutions then follow through if they are recalcitrant, then that will help prove to the Islamic world that this is about more than religion.
Thanks Tim. I’ve found that more and more policy makers have taken this view over the past decade. I often tell the story of when I was speaking at a conference organised by the Danish Foreign Ministry on political values and EU membership. (The Copenhagen Criteria.) In his address, the Danish Foreign Minister said he thought talks should end. I tweeted it, half expecting a tap on the shoulder from an official to say he had been misquoted and that it wasn’t official policy to end talks. 5 minutes later, the Foreign Ministry retweeted it!
I fully agree....... You white supremecists and islamophobics never wanted to let Turkey enter the European union. You only wanted their military aid in the NATO. I hope Turkey will joint muslim countries (by that I don't mean the extremists like ISIS and Alqayda) with same military strenght. Once the muslim world awakes and see the game the west is playing with them, then we will have our pride as muslims back. We will teach you lesson you never learned at school or military. Palestine will be Palestine again, without nazi laws and behaviour. We will not deport jews just like you did to the palestinians. This is the begining of your end.
I quite agree with much of what you say except that "the writing was on the wall from the beginning". Erdogan has been in power for 20 years now. In the beginning ( the first ten years) he portrayed himself as a western leaning politician who pushed for entry into the European Union, resolution of the Cyprus issue, a "no problems with neighbors" foreign policy, and a re-orientation of Turkey away from an essentially military ruled nation. This was all a façade in order to consolidate power. Once that was accomplished, and especially after the attempted coup of July 2016, Erdogan has shown his true passion: a revival of a new Ottoman Empire. His adventurism in Libya, Syria, Iraq, and even Azerbaijan, tends to show that this assertion is not fiction. Moreover he is constantly threatening war with Greece and , through the "Mavi Vatan" ( "Blue Homeland" policy), lays claim to half of The Aegean Sea and over 18 inhabited Greek Islands that have been occupied by Greeks for millennia. So much for the "zero problems" with neighbors policy that was formerly espoused. He simply has shown his true colors finally.
@@anastasiossarikas5510 Well greeks want everything for themselves and complains to eu if not given and plays victim. You are not that innocent. Turkey is not fully wrong there...
@@jackholler3572 The only thing that Greece wants is to be left alone and not be threatened by Turkey every single day; to not have Turkish jets fly over inhabited Greek islands on a daily basis; for Turkey to respect Greek territorial sovereignty and the Rule of Law. Yes, I guess the Greeks want much too much according to you.
Turkey has always messed up the region with empty pockets and a weak army... but it should know that Iran's military force. It is unimaginable for them
Turkey is so far gone, the West only sees it as a dot in the horizon... For over two decades the current regime has built an islamic-nationalist state, because that is the audience the ensures it remains in power. However, the fundamentals of their society have changed as they have been brain-washed by this approach for 20 years... Even if the persons in charge change, the islamic-nationalist mentality is here to stay!. Long gone is the Western approach of the Kemalists, they are just a memory and a minority. The entire structure of the Turkish state operates as an islamic-nationalist state, and things like the casus beli against Greece are just a part of their "normality". Casus beli against an ally? Yes! and yet "the West" still considers the Truks as "needed". The Turks know they have abandoned the West, but simply they are trying to "milk" the West of any last drops of euros they can get. The West knows they are gone. Everyone knows it, but it is a market of 80 million, which means alot of German and Brittish cars, cell phones, premier league rights and so on... What is the solution? What should have happened in 1918. Break them up. Give the Eastern 1/3 of the land to their rightful owners, the Kurds. Kick them out of Cyprus. Kick them out of Syria, out of Libya, ENOUGH with the sweet talk to the Turk. There is only one thing the Turk ever understands. BRUTE FORCE... If you listen to their president, you immediately get the feeling he is not having a conversation with people on this planet... He thinks he is speaking to history... His only goal is to surpass Kemal. He will do whatever it takes, it doesnt matter what he will jeopardize or how many will die. 2023 is the key year, he wants to show he grew their territory by then... As long as the West continues this chit chat about if Turkey is here or has gone, he will continue his ruthless journey... By the way, Turkey not in the West, has no value for Russia... Russia simply wants to use them as leverage against the West. So does China. But the Turks want to be by themselves, at the same level with the superpowers... yet they are the only nation with zero contribution to world civilization
Turkey has always had a difficult and complex relationship with the West. But there is now a sense that they have taken very different directions. So, should the West make the final break with Turkey? Or should it try to continue to maintain the relationship and keep Turkey on its side? Thoughts and comments below.
turkey become strong country according prevous turkey
The West hasn't been presented as opponents, they themselves have been acting like opponents. Some examples that come to mind: their role in supporting PKK-aligned Kurds in the Levant, their favouring of Greece in Greek-Turkish disputes, their increasingly hostile approach to Turkish Muslim institutions and Turkish/Muslim citizens in the West, their opposition to Turkey pursuing an independent course free from Western economic and political interference.
How come you don't talk about the Autocratic tendencies going on in the United States by the democrats???
@@shkronjax What do you mean no schools or hospitals?
@@shkronjax Turkey is a representation of the Ottoman Empire. It was the British and the western imperialist which collectively brought the downfall of the Ottoman Empire. Certainly, the EU will always be sceptical about Turkey. Erdogan is a different person and he is the key to Turkey's future whom the CIA freaked, tried to depose but failed. Turkey is the gateway between the East and the West. Remaining neutral but yet leaning to a stronger Asia diaspora is a better option to keep Turkey strong. To be in NATO and the EU will always be despised, not trusted and a pawn like to the western imperialist.
The western bloc has never seen Turkey as a real ally. The same sentiment applies to the Turks, as Turkey fought its own war of independence against the western powers. Turks always had Sevres Syndrome, so they didn't feel like they belonged to the western bloc. Therefore, the trust and harmony that formed in the western bloc never occurred with Turkey. In the Cyprus and Kurdish issue, which are Turkey's red lines, the West has not stood with Turkey, but stood against it and forced Turkey to look for an alternative. You are absolutely right about human rights, but the biggest reason Turkey has come to this situation is the western bloc itself.
Just leave alone.
Huuuh interference here as well....Concentrate in India
@Cenk Varol f the west
the UN and "human rights " are all based on subjective morality and they can not prove their stand at all.
therefore all their intervenes weather it's " humane" or not can't be proven morally and they can't prove that's terrorism is good or bad.
what am trying to say is this system is belt on hypocrisy and when Objective moral people start to realize than they will take action and subjectisim will have no answer when the objective moral people start action and they can't say it's " good or bad ".
even if objective moral people did wrong the subjective people can't prove it's wrong since it's all subjective.
even so atheist can't prove what's good or bad in all topics other than morality. for example, an atheist says to someone you are Bac-kward and that someone says is being Back- ward good or bad ? here they can't really answer. they can't prove being whatever is good or bad. and so on and so on.
what am literally saying now will change the world perception and the moral people will take action. it's inevitable.
one thing else if they don't have the concept of good or bad of any subject other than morality that means it has no value ( worthless ).
for example, asking an atheist is science good or bad ? if he/she did reply with good and bad they can't prove it therefore, it's subjective and has no value at all since they don't have the concept of Good and bad.
therefore, all their " facts" ( which are hypothesis not facts ) are worthless if it has no value ( good and bad ).
they can't detect which is fact and not if they don't hold on any value and even if they did they can't prove it since it's subjective.
We live in a world that ran by subjective people who can't prove their value or the value of anything and can't prove even their subjectivsim and it's value! Yet they have the audacity to tell us what's good or bad and what's valuable and not and what's true and not.
about veto members they control everything and They have last word in UN. UN is toy for America and the west to take actions on countries that don't walk on the way they wish and The UN favors mostly USA and The west . the west now is spreading LGBT, feminism, .....etc because these ideologies ( yes they are ideologies) are materialstic and can be easily controlled. plus they want countries to refuse these ideologies do the west and USA declare wars and sanctions on these countries that refuse to apply these subjective ideologies in their lands.
you see? they can't prove anything and want to force everything on us !
and guess who divided the world into capitalism and communism? 🤭 do i have to mention them ?
Is Turkey really interested in drawing closer to Russia? Aren't they butting heads in Syria and now Ukraine, where Turkey is providing drones used against pro-Russia forces in Eastern Ukraine? And in the Black Sea, where Turkey seeks to reduce Russia's military presence?
Thanks. You are right. It is a complex relationship. I didn't have time to go into it in detail. In fact, I should come back to this in a future video. Historically, the Russia-Turkey relationship is fascinating. But in the space available for this video, my point was to underscore that Turkey has forged its own path with little real apparent desire to consider the views of its Western partners. The growing ties between Ankara and Moscow (although I think they are indeed more fragile than many realise) was a simple way of showing this. There is real anger about Turkey's purchase of S400 missiles from Russia, which was clearly done to shore up that relationship between Erdogan and Putin.
"My enemies enemy is my friend"
Russia is no friend of Turkey, the Russian and Ottoman Empire sent hundreds of years fighting each other...
I believe Russia now is just happy to see NATO being undermined. But Russian and Turkish backed Islamic groups have been fighting it out in Syria for years now
It’s about interests not friendship. Like most political relationships, purely transactional!
@@JamesKerLindsay you're also leaving out that Armenian and Azerbaijan debacle where Russia really didn't support either side to try to stay neutral but Turkey supports and supplies Azerbaijan making the friction much higher than other maybe realize
Theirs also the mention of the major religions in play in each country
Islam being turkeys main religion and catholicism having huge power in Russia a true union anytime soon is very unlikely. They'll most likely see to align themselves with more of the Arabic world .
Whole the Eu members and the Nato members, all of them are supporting and arming the Pkk Ypg terrorists for about 40 years.And also the Gulen movement is supported by the west.They want to destroy Turkey and split it into many pieces.With such an allie you dont need an ennemy.It is become impossible for Turkey now to trust the west anymore.The coupe in Turkey in 2016 was the plan of the west, and Turkey is awakend now.
EU and US would prefer weak Turkey, where it has no say about issues concerning it's interests. EU and US disregard Turkey national security when it comes to Syria and Eastern Medeterranian. They consider Turkey economical growth and, trade as a threat. Human right talks are used to undermine Turkey and, to accuse Turkey that it is the problem, whilst otherwise is true.
You are spot on my friend
Totally agree with you.
Turkey's economical growth and trade? Who sold you this lie? Turkey hasn't been in such a poor condition as it is today in decades!! The standard trolling rhetoric used by KGB. Amazing how you continue on and on like there's no other sources for people to see, to hear, to read. Pathetic..
They friends cowatd friends those at the top.
Ph their what they worship their holies all of it.
@@lsd8497 Erdoğan vahşi kapitalizm uyguluyor. Bilerek Türk lirasını değersizleştirdi ki halk fakirleşerek ithalat yapamasın ve yerli ve patriotic ürünlere talep artsın. Enerjide de nükleere geçerek Rusya'ya bağımlılık bitsin. Cari açık kapansın. Ve böylece Türkiye'deki bütün büyük şirketler daha da büyüyecek. Avrupa'nın en ucuz işçiliği Türkiye'de olacak. Jeopolitik konumu zaten tam bir köprü olduğu için yabancı yatırımcı da böyle çekilecek (bu Erdoğan sonraki dönem için geçerli olacak. Çünkü Özgürlük, laiklik ve hukuk Erdoğan ile olmaz. Halkı fakirleştirdiği için bir sonraki seçimleri kazanması Hayal. Yani muhalefet hata yapmazsa Erdoğan gidecek.). Ayrıca Türk lirası değersizleştiği için turistik gelirler de ülke içinde artacak. Ancak halk ezilecek. Kısaca kapitalist çakma bir Çin modeli uyguluyor Tayyip. Ve kendi sonunu hazırlıyor.
Interesting to look at this now with Finland and Sweden applying to join NATO and Turkey's response.
Turkey is a great history and is a beautiful country and everyone I met there was very hospitable.
Thanks. Do keep an eye out for tonight’s video. I’m dealing with Finland and Sweden and will cover Turkey’s objections.
The west will never allow Turkey to go. They view it as too strategically located vis Russia to let it go. They will keep it and overlook Erdogan's troublesome behaviour. And he knows it too and is going to push the envelope as much as possible.
Thanks. I think this is exactly how many policy makers view the situation. They might as well keep Turkey wishing NATO, the CoE and the OSCE, rather than push it out. And I agree that Erdogan knows this well!
@@JamesKerLindsay it will come to a point that all Nato partners will go against Turkey we know some are the moment because Erdogan is getting too big for his boots even his own people are against him because of his aggressive behaviour...thinking that his the big boy in the region, his pushing his neighbours to the brink of war as we all know ..and yet hasn’t got the nuts to do anything because he is not sure he will be the winner..
Turkey is a precious NATO ally, and is really good at playing you fools. EU, US, UK patiently await as Erdogan fulfills the West's "Turkish expansion" plan to integrate into one MASSIVE economy and screw over Russia, Iran, and China. This is spoken about throughout wikileaks.
@@JamesKerLindsay they need to be cautious since if they go too far there will be massive tensions between everyone which is not in the interest of any party
This is a really one sided view of things! You portray things as if solely Turkey is responsible for the rift. It usually takes two for a tango. From the perspective of Turkey, things appear somewhat different than your narrative. 1. The US and the EU is trying to forge a kurdish state along the border of Turkey ==> Not because it is attracted to Kurds and their lifestyle but more due to the fact, that it further destabilises the region. The typical divide et impera policy as seen in the Serves treaty. Therefore Terrorist organisations are not only supported but also fully politically backed. This is a threat to the very existence of Turkey and can not be accepted. Even if the price tag is to completely break up with the EU and the West. 2.For over 50 years Turkey is at the footsteps of Europe with hope to be regarded as an equal member. As someone living in the EU, all along it was clear for me that there never was an intention to accept Turkey as a full and equal member. The only objective was to use Turkey for your own political gains. 3. It is quite hypocritical not to sell a nato member such as Turkey the Patriot weapon systems and penalise Turkey for buying the S-400, which is a defensive weapon system. F-35 are delivered to Saudi Arabia but not to Turkey. Do they have a higher level of democracy than Turkey? It is not understandable why it is ok for the US to have hundreds of people locked down in Guantanomo without any trial for years and it is acceptable for the EU but in case of one person for Turkey all hell breaks loose. 4.It is simply not acceptable that Greece tries to extend its sea borders from 6 to 12 miles to the contrary of the signed Lausanne Treaty and the Montreaux sea conventions. Turkey will and cannot accept that the aegian becomes a greek sea, and turkish merchant ships pay money to reach the mediterannian! Russia and Iran seems to be a much more reliable partner since Turkey can speak openly with this nations and most of the time reach an agreement. The EU and the west however have a hidden agenda! ====> If you have friends and allies such as the US and the EU you definitely dont need any foes.
At least some seem to know history in order to understand that you need the 2 point of views, to avoid making such a one-sided analysis ! 🙏👨💻👎
Turkey has been the war ally of USA,Europe and NATO since Korea war,Vietnam war,Yugoslavia civil war,Irak war,Kuwait war,Libya war,Syria war,Caucasian war and ……..??? Make your house clean first before anything else.
@Ahmet Ertekin i would like to clarify some things regarding your 4th point, first of all there is NO clause within the Treaty of Lausanne that explicitly prohibits Greece to extend its sea borders to 12 miles, when the treaty was signed according to the law of the sea (during that time) the territorial waters of every country could extend up to 3 nautical miles, later on this was changed to 6 nautical miles and in 1982 the United Nations Law of the Sea Convention allows the maximum territorial waters to 12 nautical miles. Secondly the "Montreaux sea convention" is a convention that was established in 1936 giving control of the Bosphorus & Dardanele straits to Turkey with certain rules regarding military vessels, it has nothing to do with Greece or its territorial waters. Third any merchant ship according to the international law of the sea has the FREE right of passage through ANY territorial waters of ANY country, this means that Greece could NEVER make the turkish merchant ships PAY any money, they would have free passage! In case of the 12 nautical miles only the Turkish Navy (military) would have to be granted permission to pass through certain areas. Therefore i don't see how Greece could harm Turkeys economy by extending its territorial waters up to 10 or 12 nautical miles, unless Turkey has grander schemes that involve its Navy (military) and its ability to move more easily around the Aegean Sea.
Ahmet..the Aegean Sea will not become Greek. It has been Greek for 10.000 years. That why its called Aegean. Turks are mongols that came to the region. In In Anatolia Greek states were established and prosperous long before your herds came to the region from far east. Yes, you need Greece's permeation to enter the Aegean, and we will make sure you will always have to ask for it.
@@Ghanfort that is again a very one sided view. According to the Lausanne peace Treaty which is signed by Greece and Turkey the islands were left to Greece under the premisse that the sea borders extend to 3 nautical Miles! Furthermore this treaty also states that these islands have to stay unarmed! Greece clearly is in violation of this today! It has extended its sea borders to 6 miles in the year 1936 and seeks to further extend its borders to 12 miles! Anyone who says this would not undermine Turkey‘s economic interests is whether naiv or completely biased! Turkey would not be allowed to do fishing in the whole of the agean sea. Turkey would not have a share on the riches of the aegean sea such as the Gas reserves that lies beneath it! Not only Turkey but all Countries who posseses a port on the black sea would almost not be able to pass its warships to the meditarrenian sea! Greece already accepted in a similar situation in favor of italy that it would back down from its claims to expand its sea borders to 12 miles on the ionic sea! The same is the case between UK and France at the Channel! According to sea law only archipel countries are permitted to extend there borders to 12 miles! Greece is clearly not an archipel state! Even countries like the US oppose the 12 mile regulation. For this to happen there has to be an agreement with all involving countries such as an agreement between Turkey and all the blacksea countries! The only valid agreement which is signed by Greece and Turkey is the Treaty of Lausanne! This treaty clearly does not state that the aegean is solely a greek sea. Greece has to share it with Turkey if it ever intends to make use of its gas reserves! Clearly weapon systems that are installed on this islands have to be pulled back otherwise the treaty that gave these islands to Greece will be invalid!
Nobody is talking about releasing Julein Assange from British prison. Yet if it somebody in Turkey or Iran or China, all the so called defenders of human rights countries start jumping.
That is true. The western countries have their crimes. But that does not mean that Turkish, Iranian or Chinese governments are innocent.
When large enough power concentrates into one entity, that entity cannot be challanged with law. We need to replace all central powerhouses such as states and large enough corparations with well-coordinated decentralised organisations. We don't have the means or technology to do this yet. But we can have someday.
The case of Assange is not similar at all; Assange was tried in the UK, a country with one of the longest traditions of rule of law and judicial independence, and the UK court actually held in his favor. Not really comparable with what happens in countries ruled by brutal authoritarian regimes like Turkey, where thousands have been imprisoned without a fair trial, since the judicial system has been purged and is directly controlled by the Turkish government. Also, the ECtHR never issued a judgement ordering the UK to release Assange.
What Assange did was to endanger the lives of those working for western interests - which might or might not be of thoroughly good cause it has to be said (is there perfect politics on this planet?). However there is no relationship between what he did and the defense of freedom and liberty unless one thinks giving the ISIS people or Taliban people a chance to identify and behead their opponents is an act of defending freedom.
I think other countries specifically china have risen up and the center of power is no longer definitely in Europe. It makes more sense to pursue its own policy in 2021 instead of orienting toward Europe. I just hope that all the counties can cooperate. I think Turkey is trying to pursue good relations with all countries, but some of these countries hate each other so how do you be friends with everyone. Not easy, but this is what Turkey is trying to do I feel.
You neglected to mention China is actively trying to take economic and political control of Europe while trying to cut their own ties to force them to bend to China
and why did you refer to Turkey's relation with Russian making it out as its an issue?? Make a video on Assange!, the man is dying in a UK jail.
The US now views Russia, China in the same light as it has viewed North Korea and Iran
Alina, you are absolutely correct !!!
Assange should be free, no reason to be jail.
This is a propaganda video. Assange may aswell be the antichrist to the fascist anglo world empire
@@fusionreactor7179 Fascist government is the Turkish government. It has occupation troops in 4 countries, Iraq, Syria, Libya and Cyprus.
@@eleftheriosiliopoulos8796 USA has troops on some hundred lmao
Turkey was never truly western though
It depends what you mean?
To be a western nation is a disgrace at this moment and time. Democratic nations are despicable.
@@JamesKerLindsay It doesn't have a western foundation, it had a western coat of paint over a central Asian people and Arabian religion, a coat of paint added by a few reformist and maintained out of pragmatism during the cold war, it's not surprising it's flaking.
And as Barua mentions, If the modern west has no respect for itself, it can't expect respect from others, much less admiration, Turkey (and others) would rather carve their own path now.
I mean I agree TURKEY IS NOT WESTERN. But....
Arabian religion ? :)
Do you guys realize that Christianity is from middle-east and is as semitic as Islam right :)
White Jesus doesn't exist ;)
@@rosameltrozo5889 Christianity and islam both are from middle east.amd middle east geographyly in asia.European converted into middle eastern religion
I wander if they'll wait for the next election in (2023), before making a final decision in regards to moving away from Turkey ? I hear that the Turkish population are getting fed up with his Immigration and Economic Policies.
Thank you. Great point. I think there is a growing sense, in Turkey and abroad, they the next elections could really be crucial for the country. If Erdogan wins again, then that may well be it. But there are questions about whether the opposition could win. But many also wonder whether that’s would be enough. Turkey has been so transformed over the past 20 years it seems hard to imagine that it could return to its previous form. It is such an interesting country, and one that changed more than any other in the 30 years that I have been following its politics.
@kuvikina Necessary evils. We are not ok with everything they do, but beggars can't be choosers.
@@Kalimdor199Menegroth Lived in Saudi and the UAE for over 18 years. I've seen some big changes. They're forward thinkers when it comes to Politics. Apart from the Yemen fiasco of course.
@kuvikina Well we can say the same about many countries in the West. We can also talk about how erdogan uses Refugees as a bargaining chip with Europe.
@kuvikina Speaking of hypocrites. Isn't Turkey's closest Allie Qatar? A simple research will show you, how they treat their workers. I think you need to grow up and understand that this is to do with Turkey.
No one is an angel. That would be a lie and its how the world works unfortunately.
As a half Turkish Australian, Erdoğan really upsets me. He is disgracing all the work Atatürk and Turks spent their lives to achieve, turning Turkey into a modern, secular, westernised state, and simultaneously puts his own portraits up next to Atatürk, portraying himself as an equal, or even as a supporter of Atatürk. It's disgusting and he's taking advantage of the poorly educated in Turkey as their saviour & a "soldier of Islam". Rumour has it he made a lot of his money smuggling drugs in and out of the country using Kurdish militias and then increasing the persecution of Kurds to rid himself of any possible issues later, but those are just rumours. Thanks for your video.
Thank you so much. You make a really important point. There are many millions in Turkey and beyond who feel really angry about what Erdogan has done. The interesting thing was that for the first few years of the AKP administration there was a real sense that it was actually helping Turkey. The problem was that under the previous political system, Turkey was in fact caught in a time warp. It had become fixated on the Kemalist vision, but without any sense of keeping up with the times. I have worked on Turkey for 30 years and I remember the political chaos of the 1990s. I used to have discussions with people in Turkey about what Ataturk would have thought of Turkey by the end of that decade. The country was a mess. At the time, Erdogan looked like a new modernising force who would bring some stability to the country and hopefully push it towards the EU. And at first that's exactly how he seemed. The trouble is that it didn't last. The big debate is whether this was always his plan. Did he always plan to use the EU to undermine the military's power. Or was it a case that once he had done this, he realised that he now had complete control. It is a fascinating debate.
@kuvikina jeez you are stupid Turks only xmw to anatolia in 11th century before theat is was greek /armenian land . And you saying anatolia is no man's land is literally the arguments of the brits when colonising australia
@kuvikina the Hittities had disappeared along time before the 11th century . I was talking about the 11th century
Thank you for your analysis, but I have to say, you are missing many important points and only focusing Turkish governments mistakes (as you believe). There are many other factors which causing Turkey to become more distant towards to western states, as an example, they are openly supporting terror groups against TR in or around Turkey's borders.
It is a grate loss to not only the messy west, but to eu as the whole. No one has the minimal inteligance to ask: WHY IS IT ALL, WHAT IS BEHINDE, WHO/WHY IS ORCASTRITING SUCH A WORLD DETERIATION, WHERE EVER ONE LOOKS !
So what? Turkey is openly supporting terrorist organizations, too.
@@Ali-tz5xc no
@@fusionreactor7179 yes, it does.
@@Ali-tz5xc KİMİ DESTEKLİYOR GARDAŞ GÖSTER BAKALIM UYDURUP DURMAYIN
The human rights in Turkey before Erdogan were not any better. Except that when human rights abuse go in a specific direction, we hear less about them. Compare Erdo to Sissi, to the Algerian junta....and more. As long as Turkey has the bosphorus, there will always be a common ground to be found, and Erdo nows that.
Thanks. You are quite right. That's why I did mention that the early stages of the Erdogan/AKP administration saw some major improvements in human rights, before they were rolled back. I remember a Turkish academic telling me in despair twenty years ago how the police were complaining that it was harder to get criminals to confess with the new respect for human rights! And great point about Western Turkey being the key to the West! I should perhaps take a look at the internal dynamics within Turkey at some point.
BS, when the military was killing people Willy Nilly, like Sisi, not a peep. Now they want to give coup plotters a pass.
Erdogan gets seated by majority of people sisi came too coup. No comparison valid. You need to check your self. Human rights? Julian assange or whatever his last name is jailed where? And why? Joking or simply ignorant?
@@JamesKerLindsay
Human Rights unfortunately is highly politicized..
To be in good books with human rights in the media all u have to do is slave to the West after all, all major media corporations and moguls are Western
Western Culture is Universal Culture at least for a century now and perhaps more years to come however I don't think it will last
Yes Sir! Always the best part of the week! Keep up the videos
Blimey! That was quick! :-) Thanks so much. I hope you like it.
@@JamesKerLindsay The TH-cam algorithm knows to send it to me first. I get it even before you press send.
The real question is whether Turkey was ever a part of western world and not just a very good ally of the West. Military’s high engagement in politics such as the coup 1997, denial of existence of Kurds until 1991 and oppression against all the minorities do not signify a society based on western values. I would rather say that Western world turned a blind eye towards these problems until now..
As a Turkish citizen it is clear that Erdogan and his party cannot manage Turkey.
And who can ?
@@alican3920 Several other parties.
@@alican3920 Most of the ex-goverments of Turkey managed Turkey better than him. Ecevit, Demirel, İnönü. I am excluding Atatürk because he is not comparable to any world leader.
@@yamanyilmazer6513 the real question is , after all those purges and more or less the absolute control of media by Ak is it even possible for someone to win the elections over Erdogan?
@@Pavlos_Charalambous possible . 8 million young Turks will vote next year. most likely he will lose, but there is no one left to trust the west. We realized that we were alone in erdogan's time
Can you please explain the definition of a "Western State"? İ see people use the term a lot without explaining what makes western country different from a non-western country. Also i think that Turkey has always been the "other" when it comes to these comparisons. İt's a country that tried to be part of the west but wasn't originally part of it.
Its an old Colonial term for advanced nations, now it means following Western ideals.
it means basic ideas of democracy, like free and fair elections, human rights, law and order, secularism, free speech etc. While these are not perfectly exercised in western countries themselves, theocratic and autocratic countries who just control everyone and everything would be considered a non-western country
Like Mahi said, it's about meeting a minimal standard for democracy, human rights and a respect for the rule of law and international treaties. It's less about white colonialism as very much European states (Poland, Hungary) often get accused of not meeting these standards. It's more about knowing who you can trust / be partners with in modern day geopolitics / the new cold war era.
@@buttofthejoke transexualism too
@@indonesiansasquatch4926 actually the west is pretty white label, they don't say it loud because it will be racist.
We have hundreds of knives in our backs and westerners say why is Turkey moving away from us?Now we are only interested in common interests.Erdogan or anyone else, Turkey's steps towards rights and security are fixed and will not change.Those who serve European and US interests will continue to be punished.In the past, when patriotic people faced false accusations, Europe and the USA did not speak up, why are they shouting now?
I am a citizen of Turkey and we're not left the west, Erdogan did.
Oh really?
So are you going to remove your troops from Cyprus and stop illegally occupying a country that is not yours?
How about eastern Mediterranean sea? Will you sign the UNCLOS and stop claiming a territory that does not belong to Turkey as yours? You guys even signed an agreement with half of Libya that you have common borders....I find you very modest....why not sign with Tynisia, so you have the entire Mediterranean sea?
@atakan True Erdogan did , because he considers that this is the deeper wish of his people , to quit the West . You cannot become a world Muslim leader from Balkans to Alaska and still belong to the West. All crazy leaders want more and more . Hitler said in 1933 : Today Germany , tomorrow the world. And he hid a war which he lost. Erdogan will go same way. No wonder with so nany enemies created all around him. Hitler did exactly the same
It has not left, neither Wedt nor East. But, it has kicked out the colonialism rule of West. Does not obey anymore the poison of Western hegemony. Well done 🇹🇷
OK. No problem. But then it should leave the organisations. You don't get to be in a club and then reject the rules.
Turkey's paradox: Too western for Islam and too Islamic for the West.
LoL, it is correct. I am Turkish but when a european see something about islam, they directly think about the Turks. I mean Turks represent islam for europeans but we Turks are not much religious anymore. Other muslim countries practice religion but my people do not it anymore. Anyway, we are on our way.
I think its more of A World Paradox not just Turkey. Believe in Morality/God or just chase the madness of geopolitics and pretend you have virtue.
Well, we can now see for sure that Turkey stands shoulder to shoulder with their NATO allies, as they have since WW2. They are a huge part of the alliance and Russia would do almost anything to get them out. Thanks and love to Turkey from Canada.
The simple answer is that Turkey is not a lapdog to the west ie the US. And has it’s own foreign policy and interests.
Maybe. But no one is forcing it to be a member of any of the organisations. If it doesn’t like the rules, it can leave. But it seems it won’t. So it has to accept the conditions.
When I was growing up in the 90-s, USSR broke up, freedom was in the air, everywhere people were talking about new relations, democracy, Fukuyama's end of history, prosperity. But man plans, god laughs. History merely just made a circle. 20 years later, it is stark obvious that the world is divided as never before, between rich and poor, Christians and Muslims, refugees and nationalists. We played nice for long enough, now it's time to get back to fighting.
IT IS IMPERATIVE
that no Eurasian challenger emerges capable of dominating EurasiA and thus of also challenging America
-
Zbignew Brzezinski Spykman Wolfowitz etc...
Turkey has its own geopolitical intrests. The West tries to blame Turkey for its behaviour but the anti Turkey Policy of the West is the reason why Turkey behaves the way it behaves. You can't expect from turkey to do nothing whereas the US and Europe Supports YPG and PKK. Give asylum to the Gulen movement members and don't hand out Fethullah Gülen.
Turkey is in need of an Air defence system. THE US doesn't want to sell their Air defence system but doesn't want Turkey to buy it elswhere either. In the egean sea the West only Supports Greece. If you are Turkey and you are Allied with the West you don't need enemies. Turkey's behaviour ist only a reaction of the anti Turkish Policy of US and Europe. Turkey should have joined the Soviet Union. Turkey doesn't need tratiors allies Like EU and Nato.
What you don't mention your analysis is that Turkey (and Turks of other countries like Az) were never accepted by the so called West. In the heart of it, perhaps its religion that has always kept Turkey at the "outsider" camp. I'm an atheist, I've had numerous intellectual conversations with people of European origin, there is always a non-spoken feeling that says: you are no doubt not one of us. Nothing can change this in my experience, so time to stop fooling ourselves.
Thanks. As it happens, I completely agree. And I did try to get across the point that many did get the impression that the EU was. "Christian Club". This was always a huge problem. Many countries, most notably Austria, never really tried to hide their fundamental opposition to Turkish membership. In this sense, I understand why many in Turkey feel angry and aggrieved at what has happened. The problem, though, is that Turkey hasn't always been a good partner. It has often flirted with others, such as Russia. (It even did so during the Cold War.) It has also had serious problems with democracy and human rights. This has given ammunition to its opponents. Overall, it is a rather tragic story of failure on both sides.
@@JamesKerLindsay Your analysis was BIAS .democracy 😂😂. Europe and US support some of most brutal regime in the world No Arabs country has democracy Isresl is an Aparthied state ( World Only) what is democracy tho?? Hamas wonn a " western style and design Democratic election in GAZA monitor designate as FREE and FAIR by West Yet Itscnot recognizes ..Since when recognizing World only aparthied state is bench mark for d" democracy "?? HONESTLY I DONT EXPECT YOU TO RESPOND TO ME.... CAUSE YOU HAVE NO RESPOND.... ! I JUST LEAVING RHIS HERE TO EXPOSE YOU SO CALL WESTERN HYPOCRISY YEAH!
Then perhaps it is high time to jettison religion entirely and mutually recognize our common humanity. I can hear John Lennon's song "Imagine".
Sorry. But I have no time for anti-vaccination positions. Not usually and certainly not on Covid. I am just getting over a case of Covid. I am double vaccinated and it still put me in bed for over a week. I have no doubt that I would have been significantly worse without vaccination. Now, you may argue that it is your right to choose. I disagree. The unvaccinated are more likely to spread this, and as we know that even the vaccinated can become ill, the unvaccinated are therefore a very real health risk to others. They also put a huge and deliberate strain on the health services. And the idea of herd immunity gained through “natural immunity” with this disease is deeply immoral. To get to that point means deliberately killing hundreds of thousands.
As you can tell, I have no time for such thinking. Anti-vaccination comes down to anti-science, selfishness or fear. Whatever the reasons, it is contrary to the good of society. Sorry, but I feel very strongly about this!
@@JamesKerLindsay Well said. I too am tired of equating what is a public health issue with a so-called "personal liberty" issue. They are not comparable and, in this instance, downright dangerous, self-centered, and myopic.
When the same man has ruled a country for nearly 2 decades, how much of it is the country, and how much of it is just the man?
Granted, we shouldn't treat Turkey as if it's all the same as Istanbul. Istanbul was western since before 1453.
Has it finally left or have you finally pushed them out after years of lying about EU membership?
EU has fundamental principles; justice, equallity, freedom! None of them exist in erdogan's turkey!
@@SAMUEL532150 And they shall remain non existant from now on. After Erdogan's shenanigans, I don't see the Turkish government backing down anytime soon.
@@SAMUEL532150 Those principles actually exist in the EU itself?!? I came here for geopolitics, but I'm getting better comedy! ha hha
@@SAMUEL532150 Okay, go to Turkey and you will see all these things are available, don't believe what the western countries show you, they just make themselves look good
What is UN and or EU going to do about Palestinian cause, Kashmir, Yemen, Rohingya, Syria, Iraq that they (un) helped ruin
Kashmir is already a part of India d UN EU knows it very well
@@AashishSahu.9 un does not recognize Kashmir as a part of india or pakistan
@@minecraftlover8740 UN is like pet dog of India they should not interfere in this
What course of action would you deem appropriate for the UN/EU to take, as it relates to The People of Palestine?
@@kurakuson here we have a troll
Your analysis has touched on the subject very well, the country has become this way with the current government's headstrong, I know movement. I have hope that the people will put an end to this mismanagement in 2023. 🇹🇷
Thank you very much. I know that there are many in Turkey and outside who would fully agree with you. Wishing you all the best.
While Turkey had always been at the cross roads of East and West, now is the time to look East as this is the Century of the East.
It is not East or West but about political Islam
Mo Ko WTF is political Islam?
@@edrowlands1719 It's just a propaganda term used to describe leaders they don't like who just so happen to be Muslim. What they forget is Erdogan is still a secular leader, he didn't undo any of the secular laws of Turkey in his 20 year rule
@@moko8870 It's just a propaganda term used to describe leaders they don't like who just so happen to be Muslim. What they forget is Erdogan is still a secular leader, he didn't undo any of the secular laws of Turkey in his 20 year rule. Don't fall for their propaganda
Erx the "They" better get used to it, the times are a changing.
I pray that inshallah turkey will be getting better and better inshallah inshallah inshallah Allah ho akbar ❤️❤️❤️
We Turks from Hungary to Yakutia and eastern Turkestan should finally stop relying either to the west or to China or to Russia or to Islam. we are one of the most powerful and great nations. it's time to create our own center of power, politically and militarily and economically. The sun will rise again over the Turkic East. Long live the united Turkic world from Hungary to Japan and East Turkestan. 🇦🇿🇹🇷🇰🇿🇺🇿🇹🇲🇰🇬🇭🇺🇯🇵🇲🇳🇰🇷
As soon as Erdogan decided to go down the Islamic fundamentalist route, Turkey was finished.
@SaracenGamer I don't mind these countries destroying themselves, what bothers me is than when their Islamic states turn to shit, they emigrate to our non-Muslim countries and bring the thing that ruined them with them
@SaracenGamer I'm still trying to figure out which Muslim dominated countries turned to democracy and secularism. Can you tell me which Muslim dominated countries did that and later turned to shit as you claim?
Turkey is planning ahead, it can see that once the USD collapses and the most indebted nations will also collapse withit.
Future is in the East with Russia and China (hopefully India as well)
At the moment the turkish lira is collapsing against the US$.
And as a reward for accepting to be a strategic base during the Golf War against IRAQ, the US promised Turkey a future membership in the EU,..... so generous from the US, but it did freeze definitively European enthusiasm
Why anyone believe any of their promises is beyond me. They'd need to be pretty naïve, that or to have read very little history.
US had no way to quarantee to Turkey entry to EU for any reason
Karma is a bitch.
@@ioannisimansola7115 Guaranty it, no, but many European countries are very weak against US lobbying.For the US, Europe
is not much more than south America : an dominion, their backyard
LOL The US made no such promise, the US isn't part of the EU they have no control over who is a member. And no the US doesn't have dominion over the EU the EU has been at odds with the US many times. This is like idiotic Turkish Nationalist propaganda.
Sadly, there was key information left out of this analysis. The problems that Turkey had with joining the EU were not caused by Turkey but by the growth of Islamaphobia in France and Austria, both of which passed laws that will specifically require referendums to approve Turkish EU accession. Then the joining of Cyprus into the EU in 2005 meant that Turkey now had an implacable enemy which opposed every step that Turkey tried to take to pass each chapter. Cyprus was supported in these objections by Greece where and opinion poll showed 75% opposed to Turkish EU membership.
Turkey began to understand that there was no chance of EU membership and the pressure for reform to meet the EU conditions died away. And quite understandably there was an increasing lack of enthusiasm among Turkish people to join the, EU. Most Turkish people I speak too have long said that they didn't want to join a club that didn't want them.
Finally, there is now a feeling among most Turks that the EU has passed its sell by date and is not worth joining.
Meanwhile, the Turkish government is looking towards the east. Not just to Russia (Turkey has just agreed to buy a second S400 defense system and to enter into joint arms production with Russia!) but also to China with whom Turkey has formed a strategic alliance. I suspect that its future trajectory is going to be to join the Eurasian Shanghai Cooperation Organisation.
Maybe Turkey should withdraw it's armed forces and the illegal occupation of Northern Cyprus, for the republic of Cyprus and Greece to not oppose Turkeys EU membership!
@@nikim5051 In your dreams maybe.
@@Zappuify Those dreams do not matter so much anymore, in an indirect way the occupation serves the neighbours well!!
The occupiers might have won the battle on Cyprus but not the war... It's called karma!
@@nikim5051 He/She who says this is a stupid but nothing more. Just open a map and see how strategically Island Cyprus is important for Turkey's mainland defence.
Turkey will never let Island Cyprus be in hands of an enemy power. Full stop.
@@TorosCanavari Two thirdd of the Island already in enemy hands😂
With allies like this, NATO doesn't need enemies.
@kuvikina if it continues like this, it will be Russia which will be stopping Turkish expansions, not the other way around.
@kuvikina Turkey is the only NATO country with troops in Syria, Cyprus, Iraq, Libya and Qatar while threatening Egypt, Israel, and NATO members Greece and France. It's also playing with Russia to extract concessions from the United States.
@@nickchristoforou7850 greece is crying baby of europe. Greece is not an important country compared to Turkey
@MistakesWereMade LoL jdjskzekskskkskskzlzkzixidkskskzkskkskskzkskskks War and Greece
When Ataturk was single-handedly abolishing religious and traditional values, where were those human-rights shouters to ask him: did you take your people's consent? Did you hold an election to know if Turks want azan to be banned? Did you consult people when you were switching to the latin alphabet over night? Where were the defenders of human rights? Ohh, I'm sorry, I should correct myself: western rights. In view of the west, only those who are like them or support them are human and deserve their rights to be given.
#BullsEye
Well said.
Ataturk did the right thing
@@brucewillixaspirinix9652 your comment actually proved my point! What you said is a showcase of the real atttitude of the west: "comply with our orders" under the disguise of "freedom of speech"; "our elite law" under the disguise of " democracy and people for people"; and "west rights" under the disguise of "human rights".
And they did not come to Rome; Romans came to them with weapons trying to shove democracy down everyone's throat. And guess what? Apart from some ignorant who were duped by the 'apparent' righteousness of those made-up terms, the rest did not swallow it (and are still not); they've just spit it right back at their faces. You have every right to desire your own culture, but you don't have the right to lie about it and disguise the truth. So please stay in your Rome, and practice/worship your culture as much as you want, for yourselves!
Firstly turkeys accession to the European Union began in the late 90’s before erdogan and the akp party. European countries from the late 90’s always made it clear they did not want a Muslim nation with such a large population entering its ranks. Thus they adopted the carrot and stick approach with turkey. For a long time turkey had a ‘zero problems with neighbours policy’ but unfortunately countries like Greece tried to take advantage of this with delimiting maritime zones. For years Turkey requested military equipment but constantly found its needs not supplied. Thus Turkey has taken a multi polar approach, it shouldn’t need to only stick to the west it should have options and that is what it is doing, by being more self reliant it is freeing itself from the status quo.
Thanks. I tried to cover all this in the video.
Beautiful narration and very informative video. Thanks a lot.
Thank you so much. Really appreciated!
I am Turkish and sad that Erdogan drifted away from Europe
Thank you. I completely agree. I know that the relationship hasn’t always been easy, and that Turkey hasn’t always been treated well, but I do think that Turkey should have an EU future. I hope relations can be rebuilt in future.
@@JamesKerLindsay I hope that most of the Turks see how Erdoğan’s propaganda work, I believed many years in him, the life that I life is absolutely different that he wouldn’t respect me but I still believed him
He started very well but ended up in disaster. Sorry for the good and kind Turkish nation for being deceived.
@Nadir Hikmet Kuleli u fell fully into Erdogans Propaganda brother
@Nadir Hikmet Kuleli tabii canim, I am the one who‘s dangerous, bro I believed all the years Erdogan before I saw every part of the Picture wich Erdogan is drawing
The situation has massively changed since the Russian invasion of Ukraine as the West calls up its friends to stand with Ukraine - yet Turkey is still walking a fine line.
You forgot to say that west wanted to give a coup d'etat in 2016 and the west still want to do that to up until now. Turkey has the reason to be like that.
Are there any other coup attempts backed by the USA and not successful?
You know Turkey is always having coup attempts Turkey into South America
Yet another great video Mr. Kerr-Lindsay.
I like to think of myself as somewhat knowledgeable on the basic histories and geopolitics of every region, it turns out I knew next to nothing about Turkey.
I’m glad to see your channel getting more subscribers but I still maintain it is very underrated.
Thank you so much Alex! Turkey is a fascinating country, in so many ways. I have been working on it for about 30 years now and it has been so interesting to see how it has changed.
And thanks as ever for the really kind words about the channel! :-)
Excellent analysis. I would still go with the optimist option. The Turks, although Muslim, are very much a Western society in their lifestyle and view on things nowadays. It's a country which is a lot closer to Greece, Hungary or Bulgaria (culturally and economically) than it is to Syria or Iraq. In the end it's the peoples spirit that will decide where it's headed. And from this point of view, Turkey will eventuall anchor herself to the West for good. While Turkey may seem like it's much more "Eastern" oriented for the time being, this is nevertheless more of a political stance, not a cultural stance. Ever since the Ottomans conquered Istanbul Turkey has been more of a Western power than an Eastern power. It has always been focused on conquering, embracing, and eventually being part of the Western world.
Excellent points there.
What is there left with EU? The EU itself is self deteriorating organization waiting to collapse. You forgot about Britain's Brexit? While Turkey has announced nothing but is it EU really worth it nowaday?
This is a line I keep haring, but I don't see any evidence of this. The EU has its problems. But look around, where doesn't? It is still the largest trading bloc in the world. And I'm not sure that Brexit is a particularly good advertisement for leaving the EU, to be honest! :-)
@@JamesKerLindsay neither are Poland, Hungary, Eric Zemmour, 5 Star Movement, etcetera.
Rather the West left turkey, turkey waited too long to be a member in the European union but with no result .,now turkey is going its own way ,now turkey is a strong country.
You absolutely need to make a video about the current situation in Bosnia and Herzegovina, a lot of things going down right now
On one side is western world , other side is Eastern world. Turkey needs to have relation with both sides. But must put itself in a strong position. Like ertugrul did. 😀
@Sacred Squadron Turkey is trying to have an independent foreign policy.Its not easy even for America but it's worth it.
@@mohamedasaid7910 when i first visited in 90s, the tourist guide was demonstrating about "European and Asian " sides! Later, when i frequently visited on work, i realised it was farce: Turkey doesnt like to belong to Asia , nor does Europe want to own them, with Caliph Erdogan precipitating furthur! Hmm
The problem could be your biased perception or dislike of Erdogan.
Turkey is a secular state. If they have a President who is a good Muslim and who makes you unhappy that is your problem. At least he is not a fanatic like Modi of India where Muslims are facing many hardships
@BOSS OF THE PUMPKINS There nothing special in being European.
@BOSS OF THE PUMPKINS For me all humans equal.You go worship yourself Mr European
I think the problem is the Erdogan administration , not Turkey.
well done, scanderberg
I think it's very difficult for Turkey to change. What we must have in mind is that Erdogan is in charge for almost 20 years. Practically a whole generation of Turks haven't known anything else. Also, especially the last years, Turkish policy is totally aggressive and mititiralistic. Invasion in Syria, Invasion in Iraq, immediate interference in the war between Armenia- Azerbaijan, troops in Libya...lots of troubles with Cyprus and Greece and aggressive rhetoric...it's not easy to transform in a peaceful, normal country just with a government change...
Turkish youth is mostly anti erdogan. It is a thing in Turkey at the moment. But if you think Greece and Cyprus can get away with an another leader you are wrong. You are not right in east med and aegean sea.
@@jackholler3572 we are 100% right in the Aegean and we have a very strong position legally in the east Mediterranean. But this is not the point and it's definitely not in mine or yours expertise to judge. The point is that Turkey is the one that denies to take the case to the international courts as any other civilized nation would. We may be right, may be not, well, that is the reason we have the legislation and the courts if we disagree.
Turkey is also supporting Ethiopia's diversion of water from the Nile against Egypt's interests and is supporting Pakistan in Kashmir against India.
@@spiroskarikis9433 No Turkey offers Greece to go to international court with the demilitarization of the eagean islands but Greece refuses. Greece is %100 wrong in mid east and aegean tgat no one supports it.
@@nickchristoforou7850 No They just sell drones to them. It is a trade.
Erdoğan will lose the presidental elections of 2021 by far.Erdoğan made us poorer,made us alone.But this situtation will change.
Just another example of multi polarity. The cracks in the edifice are growing and the US is frustrated.
It's not only Turkey which is against the west but the whole world. Have a look at the reactions coming from Latin America, Africa and Asia concerning the involvement of of the west in their countries. In my prediction the west would soon be isolated due to their lack of considering and treating others like a half human beings, they should be ready to reap the fruits of the bitter seeds they had planted.
Yeah but their opponents (Russia and China) are no better than the west, in fact I could argue that their are more rutheless in their approach.
Thanks. You make a really good point. It is very easy to be critical of Western countries. But the alternative really isn't better. In many western countries there are human rights organisations and other NGOs that criticise companies about their behaviour. They often come under real scrutiny, and even media pressure. This doesn't happen with Russia and China. There is no internal oversight of their activities, let alone domestic pressure to moderate their behaviour.
@@JamesKerLindsay I agree with that however, I think the world has already seen the ugliness of over dependence on foreign countries. Each continent should stand for itself.
@@JamesKerLindsay Human Rights organisations are there to justify imperialism and war against poor defenceless countries. Why aren't the NGOs speaking out against France's anti separatism law which was used to shut down anti extremist Mosques? Where is the ECHR on that? Yeah no where to be found. Are you saying France should leave? Nope. So this all Western imperialism and colonialism. Muslims should not believe in the West's narrative that pushes for colonialism of poor and powerless countries.
Turkey is gone. NATO has no mission. so turkey does not belong.
Accurate, unbiased and profound analysis as usual. I also appreciate your personal vision of the future perspectives and alternatives that the country has.
* Just for the record: Turkey joined NATO in 1952, not 1950.
Nato and the West accepted Turkey only because of a cold war with USSR. With Turkey in Nato, Nato had access to the black sea.
@@mrtwisster4225 True to that. And as James mentioned in the video, the West prefers to keep the turks in Nato than to chase them out. That would increasingly weaken NATO's eastern front and thus give Russia much more power in the Black Sea region. I also believe that despite the diplomats' issue, the U.S would prefer to sell the F-35's to Turkey, not just for the sake of business and money but not to allow Turkey''s swing in the East. We all remember how outrageous the US was after Erdogan purchased the S-400 system from Russia.
Thanks Georgi. I appreciate it. And quite right on the date. The original script was that it started membership talks in 1950.
as a past pan-europeanist turk, i had a huge sympaty for joining in eu but i gave up after i realised eu's double standarts and racism towards turks
The Western ambassadors violated the Vienna Convention. Also there's no mechanism to "kick out" someone from NATO, and it would be a huge loss for U.S. as Turkey is a powerful country of 80 mililion people. Turkey actually has a real army compared to some other NATO states like Latvia.
I fail to see how a fairly anodyne statement about living up to your obligations under international treaties is a violation of the Vienna Convention. If it is, then the US government and most western governments commit such infractions on an essentially daily basis.
I disagree that they violated the Vienna Convention. Turkey is a member of the Council of Europe. It is obliged to abide by the rulings of the ECHR. In this regard, the ambassadors had every right to remind the Turkish Government of its international obligations. Of course, if Turkey doesn't want to abide by those rulings, then the answer is to leave. Then it could legitimately argue that no one has the right to tell it want to do. But, if you want the advantages of being in a club, then you have to accept the club's rules - including the right of other members to tell you when you are breaking those rules!
Analize duygular karışırsa nefret gibi sizin gibi vasat bir analist olur. Kurallara uymaktan bahsederken Batılı olduğunu unutma 😊
Turkey is part of the ME and not European. Look at the long history of Turkey and you will see that Turkey has and will always be an integral part of Asia.
What do you know about about Turkey's history. Europe is not a one entity. Which Europe do you talk about. Spain, Sweden, Poland or greece or romenia, Bulgaria.?
You are good at segregation and discrimination.
What does EU suggest Turkey do about the coup attempt and the putschists? We started the video about the problem of past coups in Turkey, and another coup fails, that is a problem, too?
Three days in a row I am devouring your videos. Great video James as always! Through your work I discover a more balanced viewpoint supported by explicit reference to legal texts.
Erdogan has ambitions that threat several countries. He sees Turkey as a regional power and DEMANDS from everyone to consulate him before they act. When they don't ask for his permission he gets angry.
And we support these ambitions as Arab Muslims
@@فهميكتاني Ok, then get out of NATO
@@فهميكتاني we don't want your support at all
@@faruka91 says the supporter of chp
@@فهميكتاني you are not even türk , arap you are ,most of us want a secular country and it's none of your business , just türks can talk about Türkiye
This video missed so many fact points that one wonders what purpose it serves..
I was born, and spent 50 years of my life in Turkey, and I have always been anti-Russia, anti-China, and anti-Totalitarians regimes, pro multi-part democracy person.
When anybody wants to discuss Turkey, that person must start from who was behind 1960, 1980, 28 February, July-15 Military's Coup?
If one ignores all these, it means he is one of the those who took part in those actions that can be considered crime against humanity. Including YOU Mr. Lindsay.
Europe, and America talks about democracy, and when Turkish Prime Minister get hanged by military, they do NOT even protests.
I am really pro-western democracy Turk, but I do NOT see that western countries wanting democracy in Turkey.
Mr. Lindsay making big issue of Osman Kavala's being in prison. Let me ask 2 questions;
1-)Where and whom was he during 15-Temmuz night?
2-) Was he sponsored by George Soroz who is behind color-revolutions in former Russian Republics?
Is it clear to explain what purpose this video serves?
Mr Kalkan 1 . Mr Linsey Logan works for the establishment of Soros or he sounds like that. 🤣🤣
Ah, so this is the Soros conspiracy theory corner. :-)
By the way, at one point I was in fact an Open Society scholar in Kosovo and North Macedonia. You know what I did? You won’t like it. It was really terrible. And I feel so guilty about it now. I was paid to visit twice a year to help young up and coming scholars at several universities develop their teaching and research capabilities. Scary evil stuff!!!
Where was Erdoğan at that night that's the real question ❓
@Aloe Vera Or that you label thing you feel that dont agree with your opinion "brain-washing" because you cant ditinguiss opinion from fact... Because most of what this guy does is statements of... well things that happen... events, meetings and stuff, and if he mentions something that is more of a qualitative analisys has a citation on the description for sourses... so if ou want to tell them this is brainwashing you better bring some good arguments cause this man is making academic quality content on youtube, and you are... defending a George Soros conspiracy theory...?
if turkey wanted democracy, voting for Erdoğan in the first place was a mistake. silly conspiracy aside, turkey needs to actually want to be democratic, and then it will become so. voting for religion over order, and strong men over law will only ever get you into clubs with terrible countries.
With Turkey out (in all but formality), Ukraine, Georgia held at arms length, value squabbles in East Europe suggest that the West is receding.
Peaceful co-existence between West and non-West is more and more negative.
NATO plans to name China in next strategy documents means the chance of the world westernising, or the West offering itself as a big tent with flexibility for the world is fadding. What we see is an increasingly exclusive club. A growing fortress mentality.
It really does look like Europe is in inexorable decline. We (US) are also in the process of pivoting our attention to the Indo-Pacific. It’s remarkable how much Europe has declined in influence in the past century, to the point where countries like Russia and Turkey can shit at the EU and get away with it!
@@khaldrago911 May I suggest that it is because no one ever unified Europe. Today EU is not in control of foreign policy, every member has right to veto any EU f.p. intiative. Only NATO offers common defense and only if attacked. It is not able to present a united front in the case of Ukraine or Georgia which are non-Nato.
First off NATO has to have realistic goals. Defending Georgia and Ukraine aren't realistic. The West backed Russian control of the Ukraine in WW1 and WW2 more or less. After the Soviet state collapsed Russia was allowed to keep bases in Crimea and we made Ukraine give up the nukes on it's territories which is the only way it could've guaranteed it's own security. Historically the West has always been willing to throw Ukraine under the bus. Georgia is too remote to even seriously consider. Whatever happened there in 2007 or 2008 was.a farce. Adding central Europe to the alliance was a hell of an expansion and the logical limit of the alliance. Expanding into the Baltic states was a mistake. All of the former Soviet states at least the ones near or bordering NATO should be non aligned like Finland.
Not objective enough. Turkey had far better and longer democratic political and liberal economic tradition than the countries that was accepted to EU in 2004 and 2008. But by keeping Turkey away, EU deliberately punished Turkey, because of own irrational cultural fears and biases.
Not sure what the issue of objectivity is here? That’s rather the point I made in the video.
@@JamesKerLindsay The issue is about partial tone of your story. You tell the developments after 2005 as if Turkey converted into autocracy for no obvious reason but Erdogan's personal tendencies. That is clearly not the case. You continue then by claiming Erdogan purged opposition in 2013. Also not the case. Erdogan purged its own allies, who he no longer didn't want to share the power. The opposition was mainly the CHP and army. And they were not purged, on the contrary, they were freed from prisons, which they were held for years based on bogus claims. Do I need tell more about objectivity?
Turkey has left the west dictatorship axis. Created its own axis and playing with both Russia and West to fullfill it's geopolitical ambition.
Russia also Christian country.
Ideas that Turkey has to follow EU policy which is not part and waiting EU for 50years when Poland that jumped in queue to be EU because it’s has cross symbol on neck, don’t Follow any EU rules!
I call hypocrisy and no moral standards!
my friend, as a Turk living in Turkey, I can say that we are all tired of Erdogan's foreign and domestic policies, he will definitely not be elected to the 2023 elections
Thank you. This has been a really interesting point raised in a few comments. I completely agree. The 2023 elections will indeed be absolutely crucial.
Erdogan will absolutely be re-elected because Erdogan is who counts the votes. It's gonna take a bloody coup to remove Erdogan from power. Too bad the last one in 2016 didn't succeed.
@@michaelschmidt9708 you not Michael May be Ali or Mohammed Erdogan has no chance of winning with his aggressive attitude and wanting to be the master of the Region ..., he has no power in any respect his provokes all his neighbours the new Hitler of the East
And you are hoping by saying something like this you will be respected in this forum... it is the likes of you that encourages the EU to behave the way it does against your own country
You wish you are a puppet look Iraq 🇮🇶 what west bring nothing
With all due respect James Ker-Lindsay the West is 100% responsible for Turkey leaving the Western camp. The West knew exactly what they were doing and what they have done and what has upset Turkey. Everyone knows (expect Western people like yourself who can only see what others do to the West but not vice versa) Turkey does not care about joining the European Council, etcetera. The West should stop worrying about Turkey, the West has many internal problems for example, it is lagging behind in manufacturing, AI, blockchain, it has a birth rate problem, trade deficit, current account deficits, budget deficits and China's ambition to reunify Taiwan along with China intensifying its mission to end its trade in US$. Before the West goes on about what they should do maybe the West should keep the EU and US stable politically.
It's the West that pushed Turkey towards Islamization and autocracy.
Turkey will leave NATO when the time is right.
The simple is, Turkey is Samurai country.
They Will kind to you if you are kind to them.
Also they can be vicious to you. If you are vicious to them. Even if you are 1000 bigger, they Will sacrifice all their life to kaill you.
Thats my opinion.
Bullshit.
Greece tried its best to have great relations with Turkey, even establishing a state of cooperation between the two. However, Turkey and especially its demagoging leaders has been increasingly hostile due to their aversion of the international treaties, to which Greece calls it to comply. The Mavi Vatan project is expansionistic and calls for the annexation of half of the Aegean Sea. And all that is of course unprovoked.
fahr..... You must be VERY young 🙂
@@zhaw4821 yes offcourse thats my opinion what's your opinion old?
@@fahrrurrozi686
My opinion is... that your opinion is very simplistic.... immature. It's ok, there is still time
@@zhaw4821 Sorry, I can only reply to your message until here. I have to work, I can't argue with unemployed old man. Bye.
Thanks a lot for the analysis. I think it's really difficult, if not impossible, to be pro western for Turkey, with or without current govt. But I believe the politics need to be played in a more decent way, partners everywhere should be increased as much as possible.
Obviously the Kavala case is depressing for the people here and abroad, who expect more from our justice system. And apart from our very own sake in having a functional freedom of speech, we shouldn't give the opportunity to our adversaries to instrumentalise that.
I think we didn't cross the Rubicon for restoration though. So I think we can see things quickly improve in that aspect.
It is not a matter of erdogan or his diplomatic stance. For decades western countries appoint arrogant ambassadors who speak without restraint against Turkey, often meddling with internal affairs and sowing discontent. As someone who hasn't voted even once for erdogan, I'm all for expelling diplomats speaking like arrogant colonial governers without limits. We don't owe anything to westerners, in fact we liberated our nation from their occupation and found a republic. Avarage turkish person doesn't care for western club, but just want to live in peace. We also don't need to be a part of EU to enjoy democracy and freedom. Get off your high horse.
There is not a single EU state wanted 95million Turks/Muslims in EU sad but true. Btw joining NATO was simple to counter USSR, clearly visible by US basses and nukes station there even today.
I aint expert in turkish geo politics defenetly, neither am i turkish. But since when Russians become turkish buddies, becouse as far as i know, it was always kinda opposite. (Aand we also had recently border conflict between azerbajan and armenia, where russians and turks supported different sides)
I mean, woudnt be smart for Turkey to have some kind of, neutral stance?
Excellent analysis of the relationship between Turkey 🇹🇷 and the EU 🇪🇺.
Due to the Islamist and Nationalist nature and actions of its leader Recep Erdogan, there will be more ups and downs in this relationship.
Turkey as a full member of the EU ?
Doubtful at best.
Greetings from Germany...🍺🖐
Erdogan is an Islamist but certainly not a nationalist, he is an old man living with the neo-Ottoman dream, this hurt us a lot, but on the other hand, he really showed the hypocrisy of the European Union. I don't know who will be the prime minister who will most likely be defeated in the next elections, but EU negotiations should be ended and relations should only progress as NATO and trade.
@@Vanguard.1283 He is definitely both especially since being in a coalition with MHP.
@@ClydeShadow6 He was in coalition with hdp too. It is just the conjecture
Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
I think you are right. And I think the situation could well get a lot worse in the next couple of years as Erdogan faces tough presidential and parliamentary elections in 2023. Many suspect that he may well resort to increasingly nationalist rhetoric, and even actions, to shore up his base. The problem is that even if he is defeated and a new pro-European administration takes power, a lot of damage has been done to the relationship. I think that many in Europe, even those who were previously supportive of Turkish membership, have now moved against the idea. It could well be difficult to rebuild things. But as long as Turkey nominally remains in accession talks there is hope. I'm not sure if a pro-European administration took power and really started to try to meet the conditions of membership, the EU would really have the courage to say no!
We don't want to enter the EU anyway, don't say this constantly and think that you are something
West is to blame in all this… west always acted in double standards when it comes to Turkey… it is time Turkey realigned herself in the world and not remain in the limbo as currently the situation is
I think that both sides need to take responsibility for the current state of bad relations. There is no doubt that the EU has often acted in bad faith towards Turkey. But Turkey has often behaved badly in its own way, and has far too often seemed to believe that it should be treated differently because of its size and significance. (Something Britain often did as well.)
James,it doesn't seems right to say that's the end. Those ambassadors should be expelled if they repeat those action. Its very appropriate, to take this action as a warning.
Turkey 🇹🇷 is neither east nor west, they put their hands on the oppressed. For 🇹🇷 History is at its best ,and not surprised for them to repeat on bigger scale with Turkic nations are in the making
You know nothing about turkish history! You dont have to go far back! Just check how kurds suffering and oppresed under turkish rule!
Turkey is done with EU
Nationalistic rhetoric from Erdogan aside, their Foreign Policy doesn't seem much different from many emerging developing countries i.e. Southeast Asia. They choose NATO or the US for security whilst diplomatically present themselves as neutral. Economically, they are focusing on diversifying trade with non-Western players.
It would be amiss to associate Turkey's support for Ukraine as support for NATO when Turkey has their own designs for the Middle East and Caucasus in mind, some of which counters NATO's own goals for those regions.
We Wish to feature about the Philippine Independence
Thank you so much. This is a really great suggestion! I have wanted to do some videos on the Philippines for a while. It is such an interesting country. Let me see what I can do.
Ya we want the truthfulness
between Marcos & Aquino.
Who's lying in them...
Great video James
Thank you so much!
We Wish to Feature about the Philippines under Ferdinand Marcos from 1965 to 1986
Indeed. I certainly plan to do some videos on the Philippines. It is such an interesting country.
Thanks. Interestingly, polls have tended to show that support for a republic is probably lowest in Canada of all the Commonwealth realms. I suspect it might be because having the Queen is one of the things that really sets it apart from the United States! :-)
James, the West has never seen Turkey as a member due to its Muslim majority and its failure to divide and conquer the land during the successful campaign by Atatürk during the Turkish War of Independence.
Thanks. I know that both sides have made mistakes, but I’ve always felt the Turkish view in the Treaty of Sevres is over exaggerated. It is long forgotten outside Turkey. 99.99% of people in the West have never heard of it. It certainly doesn’t shape Western thinking in any way. No one I’ve ever spoken to wants to see Turkey carved up.
Thanks for your research and insights
Thank you so much!
Hello James. Do you believe that it would be possible to conduct large-scale research based on application of neorealism on frozen conflicts in post-communist European countries?That research would include Cyprus conflict, but also Kosovo, Moldova, Ukraine and others. It would mean that ethnicity, religion, language and other characteristis of ethnic groups - wouldn't have been taken into account. Only structural level of analysis based on neorealist paradigm. Thank You in advance.
I’m very saddened by this news, I yearn for a Turkey aligned with Europe and the west, not only for the Turkish people,
but also to prove that traditionalist Sunni countries CAN change.
Damn you Erdogan
I always laugh when I see gullible Euroepeans who think that all the world is trying to be another copy of Europe.
@@MoReal2 Same these people really think that western values are universal values. İmagine going to a country like İndonesia, Thailand, Vietnam or even Brazil and telling people that democracy and human rights are universal. They would find those kind of speeches to be something called 'colonialism'. Human right and democratic values were popularized by the French and spread by the British and American empires.
Traditional Sunni countries change to become European Christian/Atheist country?
Why would anyone do that?
Europe looks too highly upon itself. This arrogance is destructive.
Hahahahhahaha
Yes, Turkey left
EU is weak anyway
@@TGDCChannel West is not only comprised by EU
@@VladTevez but all eu members are western countries
Welcome back home turkey... We will treat you like our own now... 🤭🤣🤣...
With love,
*United Asia🌏*
Thank you for another informative video!
As always ur vlogs informative as well as provocative as it invites searching q/a.
Thank you so much. I always hope that they lead to useful discussions.
When was Turkey a part of west ?!
It has been a member of NATO since the 1950s. This was, quite literally, the definition of the West.
@@JamesKerLindsay Hi James! Yes it has been in NATO since the '50s and more than that. European council, observer etc.
However, if you notice the rhetorics, the people of Turkey don't feel like that. Instead they feel that the west constantly disrespects them, treating them like second rate people, not giving them what they deserve historically, not recognizing their civilization as a peer to the western one, barking orders to them, just to name a few. In short they behave as if their pride is deeply wounded by almost anything. Look Erdogan's last pretense, 3 days ago, not to attend Scotland: "Oh, you don't give me the same (unique) security level with USA's president? I'm not coming." That kind of talking attracts voters in Turkey.
this writing was on the wall from the beginning of the current administration in Turkey. I have always been a proponent of policy reflecting reality as much as possible. Keeping Turkey in the European club diminishes and undermines the very meaning of that group of nations by proving key values and ideals to be optional. If Turkey is not going to be a western-style democracy, then Turkey should not be a part of the Council, the EU, or NATO. One could (and I would) say that Poland and Hungary are about one election from being in this spot as well. In some ways, the expulsion of Turkey could sharpen the focus on those countries, and force them to make the fundamental choice too, and if European institutions then follow through if they are recalcitrant, then that will help prove to the Islamic world that this is about more than religion.
Thanks Tim. I’ve found that more and more policy makers have taken this view over the past decade. I often tell the story of when I was speaking at a conference organised by the Danish Foreign Ministry on political values and EU membership. (The Copenhagen Criteria.) In his address, the Danish Foreign Minister said he thought talks should end. I tweeted it, half expecting a tap on the shoulder from an official to say he had been misquoted and that it wasn’t official policy to end talks. 5 minutes later, the Foreign Ministry retweeted it!
I fully agree....... You white supremecists and islamophobics never wanted to let Turkey enter the European union. You only wanted their military aid in the NATO. I hope Turkey will joint muslim countries (by that I don't mean the extremists like ISIS and Alqayda) with same military strenght. Once the muslim world awakes and see the game the west is playing with them, then we will have our pride as muslims back. We will teach you lesson you never learned at school or military. Palestine will be Palestine again, without nazi laws and behaviour. We will not deport jews just like you did to the palestinians.
This is the begining of your end.
I quite agree with much of what you say except that "the writing was on the wall from the beginning". Erdogan has been in power for 20 years now. In the beginning ( the first ten years) he portrayed himself as a western leaning politician who pushed for entry into the European Union, resolution of the Cyprus issue, a "no problems with neighbors" foreign policy, and a re-orientation of Turkey away from an essentially military ruled nation. This was all a façade in order to consolidate power. Once that was accomplished, and especially after the attempted coup of July 2016, Erdogan has shown his true passion: a revival of a new Ottoman Empire. His adventurism in Libya, Syria, Iraq, and even Azerbaijan, tends to show that this assertion is not fiction. Moreover he is constantly threatening war with Greece and , through the "Mavi Vatan" ( "Blue Homeland" policy), lays claim to half of The Aegean Sea and over 18 inhabited Greek Islands that have been occupied by Greeks for millennia. So much for the "zero problems" with neighbors policy that was formerly espoused. He simply has shown his true colors finally.
@@anastasiossarikas5510 Well greeks want everything for themselves and complains to eu if not given and plays victim. You are not that innocent. Turkey is not fully wrong there...
@@jackholler3572 The only thing that Greece wants is to be left alone and not be threatened by Turkey every single day; to not have Turkish jets fly over inhabited Greek islands on a daily basis; for Turkey to respect Greek territorial sovereignty and the Rule of Law. Yes, I guess the Greeks want much too much according to you.
Turkey has always messed up the region with empty pockets and a weak army... but it should know that Iran's military force. It is unimaginable for them
turkey army 1000
times
better
Turkey is so far gone, the West only sees it as a dot in the horizon... For over two decades the current regime has built an islamic-nationalist state, because that is the audience the ensures it remains in power. However, the fundamentals of their society have changed as they have been brain-washed by this approach for 20 years... Even if the persons in charge change, the islamic-nationalist mentality is here to stay!. Long gone is the Western approach of the Kemalists, they are just a memory and a minority. The entire structure of the Turkish state operates as an islamic-nationalist state, and things like the casus beli against Greece are just a part of their "normality". Casus beli against an ally? Yes! and yet "the West" still considers the Truks as "needed". The Turks know they have abandoned the West, but simply they are trying to "milk" the West of any last drops of euros they can get. The West knows they are gone. Everyone knows it, but it is a market of 80 million, which means alot of German and Brittish cars, cell phones, premier league rights and so on... What is the solution? What should have happened in 1918. Break them up. Give the Eastern 1/3 of the land to their rightful owners, the Kurds. Kick them out of Cyprus. Kick them out of Syria, out of Libya, ENOUGH with the sweet talk to the Turk. There is only one thing the Turk ever understands. BRUTE FORCE... If you listen to their president, you immediately get the feeling he is not having a conversation with people on this planet... He thinks he is speaking to history... His only goal is to surpass Kemal. He will do whatever it takes, it doesnt matter what he will jeopardize or how many will die. 2023 is the key year, he wants to show he grew their territory by then... As long as the West continues this chit chat about if Turkey is here or has gone, he will continue his ruthless journey... By the way, Turkey not in the West, has no value for Russia... Russia simply wants to use them as leverage against the West. So does China. But the Turks want to be by themselves, at the same level with the superpowers... yet they are the only nation with zero contribution to world civilization
Outstanding presentation! Impartial, concise and precise! Qualities so in lack these days. Congrats!
Thank you so much. I really appreciate it!
Good Riddance...Greece can take over all military alliances that the West had with Turkey. I love your always unbiased analyses
Shut up bubble.
Megalo shit grikk