It is interesting how in Multiverse of Madness Reed Richards even says that the person that is the greatest threat to the multiverse is Stephen Strange and this finale proves that point.
Strange is the only character in the marvel universe that is in universe Mary sue. Only other other ones I can think of is Franklin, the starbrand and the Phoenix force
I believe that Strange Supreme did really recruit Kahhori to hunt down the universe killers, but escaped after learning what he was really doing, which would also explain why she is more accepting of the multiverse and able to speak English.
I'm pretty sure she could speak English because at some point America or some variation of it was still created in her world. She presumably learned Spanish in as little as a few months to a year or so considering the speed at which news traveled overseas back then because she was speaking it when she and the rest of her tribe portaled to Spain.
Kahori doesnt have a character development she just fell to the lake and she is one of the most powerful one. Why? Because shes a character from not popular culture. Why? Because shes a WOMAN.
@zimknxckb4ck She seems to be the most powerful because she got shot right before she fell in the lake so the tesseract energy seeped into her. Everyone else just fell in and only got powers from learning over time.
@@zimknxckb4ckshe wanted to save herself, then her brother, then her tribe, then her culture, then the earth, then the multiverse. That is growth. As for how she was so good with everything, the rest wanted to get back, she needed to. Also wolf spirit.
Don't forget that Atahaks (Sp?) said that people who live in the Sky Realm have greatly extended lifespans, so Kahhori could have been alive for centuries evading Strange much as Sylvie did the TVA, since she was found in an apocalyptic Earth. She could have learned a great deal in that time.
I realized that Loki won't be alone for all of eternity. He'll have Watchers and multiverse travelers. Seeing that he damned himself to isolation for all eternity, it’s nice that he will actually have company
@@mohammadconte9969 there was an episode where the collector got a hold of Hela's crown and got necrosword magic. so i guess its similar to how Thor's Lightning magic work. It can channel their power but is not necessary to create their power
Best part of the whole series for me was seeing Yggdrasil at the end, I think it’s a hint that we haven’t seen the last of Loki. And you’re spot on that it’s tying the mcu together
I doubt we've seen the last of Loki, but the ending of his series and the Yggdrasil "loom" gave his story a very nice conclusion, while still keeping it open that he could reappear at any point, even after the soft reboot they've been planning for after the end of Phase 6
Who would’ve thought that ONE scene (temporal tree at the end.) would give us goosebumps like the first three phases of MCU. We need more of this, to get rid of ” the superhero fatigue “ that I can’t stop hearing about .
We have a few good scenes like that here and there in some of these shows, but honestly some of that superhero fatigue that you're talking about was shown very evidently in this episode. For me personally, the scene with Peggy Carter using Odin's enchanted sword, the infinity Stone/ vibranium armor, plus Helas helmet was all just a bit too much for me. It felt like it was overkill, it felt like it was jumping the shark. How many other overpowered weapons can we give someone? It was just a better done version of the finale of secret invasion.
Here, here! Kahhori reminds me so much of Pietro. What if there is an in-depth reason for that? I’d love if Aaron Taylor-Johnson was returned to the MCU.
@@elizabethshannon5477Kahhori's power has nothing to do with Quicksilver. Kahhori and the natives have enhanced abilities they got from the Sky World. Maybe Kahhori and "Thunder beings" particularly run because running is a form of prayer in native american tribes. And also, Aaron Taylor-Johnson was unable to return in the MCU due to not being secured with a contract and already having deals with Sony for the Kraven movie.
@@kreepthicc3751 I’m aware that Kahhori’s speed power isn’t related to Pietro’s but they look similar. I also know about Aaron Taylor-Johnson’s role as Kraven but I do hope down the line he gets to reprise his role as Quicksilver along with Wanda and Vision. They were among the group of Avengers when I started reading Marvel comics so they’re among my personal favorites. Thank you anyway for the information especially about running as prayer among Native Americans.
I like the parallels between Supreme Strange and Wanda. Both of them learned their lesson messing with reality, but they were corrupted later by dark forces inhabiting them.
I am happy to see how What If shows grief can consume someone.. I can totally relate to this. The depth of grief is not always the same as the depth of love. It is what we do with this grief, that is more important.
Yes, plus both Kahhori and Peggy pointing out how Stephen had been alone with his grief for too long and had been driven mad by it. Grief can be unmanageable if when someone is isolated for so long. Not to mention Stephen has literal demons inside!
Right! Kahori spanked infinity kilmonger in seconds yet couldn't touch strange supreme? Strange supreme caught the most powerful characters in the multiverse yet a basically enhanced human beat him? C'mon, just seemed like a lazy finale after a great season.
@@chadbinette3201y'all don't have the right perspective. Kahhori outsmarted Killmonger just fast enough to teleport him out of his suit. Killmonger snapped Thanos away because it's supposed to be ironic. They then struggle with Strange because they don't want to kill him, and since he's way more competent than Killmonger he can't just be teleported away. They needed to shut down the Forge at the same time as holding off Stephen, a multiversal level threat, while learning their powers. Kohhori is still limit testing, and Peggy isn't used to magic hence "oh that's a good idea" when he clones himself. You call it lazy but your username has random numbers in it like .... y'all are not arbiters of creativity lmao
@@nailinthefashion To be fair, the numbers in the user names is something TH-cam did to many accounts, including mine, for some unknown reason when they split the main default account into 2 or more. The accounts were/are also marked as a 'Brand Account' even though not being a Creator.
Even after saving the multiverse, Strange just can't let go of his grief and guilt. Can you blame him? He lost an entire universe when all he wanted to do was bringing back the woman he loved. I know some folks can't fathom Strange returning to his issues, but honestly we never saw him overcome it, all we saw is him stopping a dangerous threat. His problems were never resolved until this episode.
Plus I mean The watcher likely knew all this but leaving Strange alone after all that would still only drive him more crazy which it did eventually. One team up for a like a few hours wasn't gonna make him a perfect hero again especially since now that I think about it he saw the power of the stones first hand and now maybe began to think of new ways of fixing his world.
@@sagarvishe3463 I mean, there is quite a considerable difference and justification with this Strange, though. First, I we think that in his episode he absorbed his other half to become stronger, it may not imply he is his mind as well. I´m saying that it could be that both Stephen were separate minds in one body. And when his world it´s destroyed, the corrupted version hid and the good version took control, seeing what we could consider his regret. And after episode 9, his corrupted versions see now a possibility to bring back his world back and takes control again of the body... I mean, the final scene where Strange fight against his demonic self could be proof of that. So it may be similar to Wanda, but the writers could had added some Spli/Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde element
Fr but the thing is characters like them who are insanely powerful need to either be killed or given a loki treatment cause you can't really show them fighting it becomes too one sided@@sagarvishe3463
Yep. To me it felt a little rushed n strange supreme being the villain came out of nowhere like it would have been better to have some build up to it. But to me it felt like they couldn’t come up a. Villain or problem so they were like fuck it let’s make the man the bad guy. 🙄
I felt the individual stories overall were stronger but the writing in the finale wasn't as dialed in as S1 Finale. I don't mind it too much there could be a lot of reasons why especially with an animated show. I'm just glad that it seemed like the people writing and handling the narrative seem to have put a good amount of effort into it.
Marvel even kept the theme of the ultimate threat of the multiverse being Dr Strange alive for this season of What IF. I'm really fascinated to see what path 616 Strange is going to take after his travels with Clea. Side note: Thank you Colton for doing these breakdowns! Hope the entire team had a great Christmas!
This is what I was thinking when watching this episode I thought of MOM and when this strange destroyed his universe. There really leaning in to how Dr.Strange is the greatest threat to the multiverse. Would it be to insane to say in Secret Wars a version of strange might have universes fight to survive? If we think the multiverse is going to end and there’s going to be a reboot. A version of strange taking a few pieces from several universes and putting them together wouldn’t seem to far fetched. What else would he do? Sit and watch the multiverse being disintegrated or save what he can.
@@optimus2g In the UK, saying "Merry Christmas" is like saying "I hope you have a merry holiday season". I have had Muslims say "Merry Christmas" to me, and I to them. You say learn about the world? Well, take your own advice and learn that words and saying have different meanings around the world.
When Peggy saw through Strange's illusion, the first thing he did was throw a punch at her. This was a callback to the original Strange episode, where Supreme Strange did the same thing, only there, he managed to connect with the punch. This time, Peggy caught his fist, which is why he looked so surprised.
So with Strange Supreme's universe restored but without him, that creates the scenario of "What If ... Stephen Strange was never born?" Does Dormammu take over or does say Tony Stark become the Sorcerer?
Minor correction: The reason that Killmonger was most likely able to use the stones with impunity was because of the Infinity Ultron armor, not the heart shaped herb.
@@lightdarksoul2097Tbf I suspect the serum/herb help. Don’t know if a normal human could get in that armor, even with all that protection. But yeah I do agree the armor was the biggest reason
True Peggy being able to hold the stones even for a few seconds was likely thanks to the serum and likely black panther could too@@withalittlehelpfrom3
Watcher said Strange Supreme never born after his sacrifice to bring his universe back, but I hope he will bring back in season 3 as a redemption hero.
And now our journey with "What If.....?" S2 ends! As someone who read the first volume of the comic off the stands (I'm not mistyping; that's how old I am!), I still find this amazing!!! What a great level of entertainment Marvel and you have provided!!! THANKS, Colton (and Doug and Ryan!) for that!!!!
Made my girl who's always primarily been a DC fan her entire life, (she likes Spider-Man from Marvel but that was it) watch the Loki series & then this What If.. series with me, she loved Loki & then we both got to experience the ending of Season 2 What If.. together. We literally made love for an hour afterwards because of how happy she was for me showing her how good Marvel can be.
The way they emphasized when she asked "or are you just just here to narrate?" Made me think, if there a God of Stories, it makes sense to have someone to "Read" or witness/ watch the stories. Great tie in Loved these Season! Kahorri story was great!
The butterflies was a reference to the first doctor strange movie when the ancient one pushed strange around the universe when he was trying to become her student
The first season was cool. You knew why the watcher was watching them. Then he collected them all to be the guardians of the multiverse and it made sense. Who didn't know Dr. Strange was going to lose from the beginning.
I think Peggy called Strange a lifesaver is just her using a common expression and not really layered into anything. Like Freud said, “Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar”. Not everything needs to be an Easter egg or a call back or mean anything. Also two other things, when Kahhori says the thing about kneeling, it is a reference to what Captain America said to Loki in the first Avengers movie in Munich. And when the monster Strange is falling with Peggy, it is shot in a similar style to when the balrog and Gandalf fall in Moria, with Gandalf fighting the balrog as they fall.
@@dominikschalleryeah that was one episode were i slept watching... So boring... Most of them were good, 8 and 7 were best... They completely ruined strange supreme's storyline... It just not adds up with his previous redemption arc
I'm pretty sure that scene where Strange uses the "hand demon" to swallow Peggy's attacks is a throwback to Vampire Hunter D. It's an old anime where the Son of Dracula hunts vamps. His hand eats magic and lots of other things. Check it out
13:13 that moment is actually a reference to Strange's own episode where he tried the same trick on his good counterpart. And both good strange and Peggy give the same reaction: "I wish that were true but... You're not him/her"
I just can't believe they *recycled* the same *Kingpin Plot* for the *4th TIME in a row!!!* *Into the Spider-Verse 1:* Kingpin want to steal wife and son from another universe, ignoring that they wouldn't like it. *into the Spider-Verse 2:* Pretty much the same motivations behind the messed up mind of Spider-Man 2099. *Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness:* Wanda want to steal her kids from another universe, ignoring that they wouldn't like it... she also don't give a f**k anymore about poor Vision or her brother, or her parents at all. *Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness:* Evil Strange pretty much did the same Miguel did, but he want to keep doing it, so, yes, the same plot TWICE (once again) in the same movie. And now, *What If, Season 2:* who's the bad guy? *EVIL DOCTOR STRANGE* who want's to do exactly what he did in the movie... *AGAIN!*
When Kahhori says "zombies!" and mentions them being universal it could be a little nod to how some of the indigenous peoples have myths about flesh eating cannibal monsters called the Wendigo, which is the whole inspiration for zombies
I hope Cowboy Loki gets his own episode in season 3. Rocket and Groot need their own episode too considering they are two of the Guardians that have appeared the least in this series.
In that case then we will need a whole new season just to tell Sam Wilson stories. He hasn't even been mentioned once since F&TWS, despite their being so many opportunities to have him appear either as a variant, a multiversal Captain America, a multiversal Falcon, or literally anything at all. He should’ve been included in the Hydra Stomper episode since he debuted in that Winter Soldier movie sharing screentime with Cap, Barnes, Fury, & Nat, but nope, they totally pretend he just never existed in any universe. I get that he has a movie coming out next year but that doesn’t explain why they haven’t even said so much as his name in all of Phase 5. At least Shang Chi’s lore, villains, and weapons are being referenced here & there, but there’s just so many things that haven’t been touched on at all and the lack of updates on Sam Wilson is becoming a bit too glaring.
While I was watching this episode, I had this one moment of epiphany when Strange Supreme wanted to resurrect his universe again. And with this recent backlash with regards who could replace Kang or Doctor Doom in Avengers 5 or Secret Wars… well… Strange Supreme had just risen to the top of my list. Even if he supposedly vanished at the end of the episode, he could definitely be someone who could create Battleworld in a multiversal destruction aftermath scenario.
I think this was meant to be a foreshadow of what could be happening with battle world. It's the same premise. An evil multiversal threat gathers all the greatest heroes and villains and they end up fighting each other. What if season 1 came out before M.O.M and we got some glimpses of characters similar to supreme strange.
Colten, thank you again for the awesome recap! I loved this episode, and I didn't even see it coming, the writers still surprised me. Have a happy New Year ScreenCrush team!
Questions 1) why strange need Peggy in 1st place?? He easily can catch kahori with single snap. 2) how kahori know about strange plan? I don't think he will explain his plan to anyone. 3) how Peggy cracked that pocket dimension with her shield?? Strange captured beings with 6 infinity stone in it. But none able to brake that thing but surprisingly captain carter did it. 4) kahori a character who unable to handel normal people with guns, bht suddenly she started overpowering strange supreme, killed killmonger, tricked wanda?? 5) shield is for absorbing physical attack. How she able to survive strange blast?? 6) tony died, hulk hand burnt, thanos nearly killed by 6 infinity stone. But PEGGY CARTER Is ONE ABOVE ALL. She can catch them without any problem. 7) strange is the one who captured those heroes and villians. Then why the hell, after released by captain carter, they started fighting eachother instead strange supreme?? 8) the Space stone itself cannot transfer any individual to another universe. Then how the hell kahori able to do that?? Suddenly he can create thousands of portal easily. How she know, that which character belongs to which universe??? 9) how new universe created?? Because no character burnt in that forge except supreme strange. If supreme strange had any idea abou own sacrifice will create his universe again, he would have sacrifice himself happily instead of collecting heroes and villians. So collection of multiversal villian, hero's don't make scene. 10) Peggy carter have very little idea about infinity stone. How could she respond strange effectively??
At the end--- literally MCU become M-SHE-U. Watcher saying, multiver needed Captain carter not watcher. They overpowered her and treating her like she is LIVING TRIBUNAL or ETERNITY like being. If just super soldier serum is enough to kill gods, then no need to introduce god like beings. Our steve and captain carter will save whole multiverse. Literally to over powered character defeated a god like being. Unnecessarily killed strange and surprisingly created a universe.😂😂😂😂
Great work on the run downs, Colton! You're the first ScreenCrush presenter to match Ryan in entertainment value, and I hope we get to see more of you... they just need to either get you out of that TV or send you a backdrop of your own into your TV world... you've earned it. I felt like Strange's backslide into villain territory wasn't developed enough, though I know they were trying to keep it as a surprise twist. But by the end of last season, he was on the right track only to fall again with no lead-in. His "inner demons" took the credit, but the line was so throw-away that it still seemed a bit of a disappointment from a story perspective. And I'm still waiting for a Captain Carter "What If" spin-off series.... c'mon Disney!
What do u mean still waiting? This second season kind of feels like a captain carter spinoff to be honest. It didnt feel like a cohesive broader story as how the first season felt
This entire season was a Captain Carter story. Three out of nine episodes were dedicated to her story and two other episodes eventually tied into it by the end. Captain Carter is the main character of "What If?..."
Makes you wonder if Captain Carter will flip in season 3 for her own reasons such as never getting a happy ending with Steve? Or all her multiverse traveling and saving worlds changing events could also be effecting things and make her a target. Who knows I can’t wait to see events unfold
@@BeenUceSince95I think Captain America variants are best written when their cause is righteous, relatable, but can be opposed with something equally noble like the Sokovia accords debate, or when the nobility is twisted by an evil action like Stephen finally admitting he's willing to kill her to resurrect his universe. It makes Captain America always right, but sometimes naive like with the Incursions and Secret Wars. Steve/Sam wouldn't be willing to sacrifice another universe for our own.
I think I would like to see the other Watchers eventually become villains as they see that things in this part of multiverse keep nearly killing everyone@@BeenUceSince95
This is an episode that needed work. Changes required: -Put a greater focus on Strange Supreme’s inner battle so it doesn’t look like a character assassination. -Replace the Infinity Armor with Allmother Hela. This fixes two problems: •Kahhori, who has a fraction of one gem’s power, beating someone with all six makes no sense whatsoever. •Allmother Hela’s episode built her up as someone who’d be a big player, but we just got the normal version instead. Edit: Also, enough with this “guardians of the multiverse” nonsense. They’re clearly an Exiles team.
She didn't really beat killmonger she teelported him out of his armor. A good amount of powers from the stones require the user to be creative which many like Thanos are not. Why didn't Killmonger snap Peggy too? It's because he obviously wanted to fight her due to her helping stop him. Kahhori is about to use the portals, running, and teleporting to just get her enemies out of their way
yeah, Kahorri who got basically beaten up by ship cannons randomly pops up in finale beating everyone and shielding everything coming at her? this just felt so lame
Am I the only person who screamed mr misery? The smoke creature was created in the same manner. All strange’s cost and burdens concentrated into a single part of his soul. This means we have two, one in MoM and one here
If you watch the concept art on the credits, the last one is a shot of loki-season-1-esque branching timelines, which I imagine were likely replaced with yggdrasil quite late in production. But yeah, big fan of who I'm calling "Infinity Carter", and hope she plays a role (more than just a cameo) in the upcoming secret wars.
I’m not sure if it’s in the previous comments but I was chuckling when Capt Carter said to leave it to the warden when Hela and Surter were starting to fight. Little nod to Clancy Brown and Shawshank
Was some of Captain Carter feats overpowered? This episode was rushed, and I wish the used some like Dormammu or Thanos as the villain. If Killmonger has the heart shaped medicine then why did Thanos get sacred. I thought is was the armor he had.
Dormammu isn't really someone you can take out of the dark dimension and if you did he would always be the same guy we saw in doctor strange since the dimension isn't stapled to one universe. It was the armor it's why Peggy had to take it.
2 things 1) Hela crying out "Give him hell!" as she fell into the Forge was a clever play on words. It referred both to the "hell" we mean when we say "Give them hell" as in "kick their asses!" and it referred to the Nordic goddess of the Underworld, "Hel," who the MCU's version is based on. 2) This may be reaching but the full demonic form of Dr. Strange who the "good" Strange had to fight against in the end reminded me of Chernabog from the "Night on Bald Mountain/Ave Maria" section of the Disney movie Fantasia.
We saw infinity Ultron destroyed other universes only using 6 infinity stones with a special vibranium suit in season 1, Infinty Ultron literally bite and destroy a universe while fighting with the Watcher.Therefore Why all the effort to dumping all the powerful heroes and villain in the multiverse to the Forge. Strange Supreme only need to wear a vibranium suit with six infinty stones and then make a wish to bring back his own universe back to life. If 6 infinty stones powerful enough to destroy universes, same 6 infinty stones can use to recreate/build universes too. I love the magical fight action scenes in finale, but this episode make no sense to me.
Well look at it like this, using the reality stone kinda only ever lets you change reality in certain places. Thanos making all of Knowhere look different for example but when you let the stone go or stop focusing on it's use the reality breaks down.
Bruh. "You're a life saver" is just a compliment. Give me a break. Next, you'll say the tree they were peeping from at the end is a call out to the tree people from Lord of the Rings.
This finale really made me think that they need to bring in Lord and Miller for the next season of what if, or at least the finale. I really enjoyed this episode, but it did seem like a much lower quality version of the scene in into the spider verse when you meet all the different Spider Men. I can only imagine what they could have done with this finale.
In case it hasn't been pointed out already, you did miss a character at @ 9.25 Colton. If you look behind Rocket, that's your mom. Great work on these videos 👍🏽
I was waiting for Kahori to sing Reflection at the end. Cmon Disney...MCU didnt make money from princesses. Stop it. Also it would have helped if they made an episode with Kahori and Strange hunting down the univere killers to explain why shes there, why shes that powerful, and what the friggin heck is the Forge!
I really enjoyed this finale and the season overall it was great i think it was a epic way to end this season, and leave the door open for season 3 Happy new year colton ,and screencrush team thank you for amazing review this season it was a journey!
I definitely agree that this season finale had a lot more of “nerds smashing toys together in a sandbox” energy than “character driven multiverse story” energy. Instead of giving Carter & Kahhori more MCU macguffins/artifacts to use against Strange, I think spending just a little time on the actual characters, especially showing either Strange’s recidivism and/or his good side, would’ve been a better and more emotionally satisfying finale to the episode. The action and callbacks to other characters was great don’t get me wrong, but it was a bit too much relative to the amount of story the episode was actually telling.
I liked the second season more but the finale was very underwhelming. Really disappointed what they did with supreme strange especially since it seemed like he learned his lesson last time he tried to save Christine but I guess he didn’t for some reason…
I mean... he didn't really since what was there to learn when you were left alone for who knows how long. He had a team for a few hours and then was left along again but this time he saw that in other universes there was thoses he could use just like the watcher. I can see him doing his job at first and protecting universes but slowly that grief and anger rising. All these infinite universes and yet his ended like it did. Why wouldn't he try again?
Thats true too, the only part of him that was still good was the good strange he absorbed. The rest had been taken in by the grief and pain@@joshinthesauce4636
It kinda makes sense though. Like, in episode 4, we see that Strange was split into two. Who´s to say that even fused together, both Strange remained as two consciousness in one body, and in episode 9 we see his good side since the bad side could had hidden deeper since his plan failed and when he got the role of keeping an eye to Zola and Killmonger, his demonic side might had found another solution to his plans and then uses his inner grief to take control of his body again and then that´s how we got his role in this episode?
I like the theory and I wish they had explored it more in this episode. Strange supreme seems to have a similar arc like main universe Wanda where in she turns villain in MoM after having a redemption arc in Wanda vision (Both had negative influences either via absorbed demons or the darkhold). I think this episode was not as well structured as the rest of the season. Bringing back good strange (establishing him as a separate character, spending an extra scene on him and then having him sacrifice himself) would have made for a good third act instead of providing every weapon ever for two heroes to use against strange supreme, making the story more character driven. Also really digging how well what if has basically given us a Captain Carter series
@@kritichaplot5025 I definitely agree that rather than the “nerds smashing toys together in a sandbox” plot device of giving them more Mcu macguffins/artifacts to use against Strange, I think spending just a little time on the actual characters, especially showing either Strange’s recidivism and/or his good side, would’ve been a better and more emotionally satisfying finale to the episode. The action and callbacks to other characters was great don’t get me wrong, but it was a bit too much relative to the amount of story the episode was actually telling.
Admittedly I don't watch every breakdown yall make, and I have never seen Colton host a breakdown. And I gotta say you (screen)CRUSHED it my guy! Good stuff, well presented!
Each season 2 episode felt complete and left me satisfied for being 30 min stories. Definitely a treat. Thanks Colton, Ryan, and Dug for the entertaining breakdowns. Happy 2024 ScreenCrush crew and fellow Watchers! (had to throw that last word in)
Strange's hand with the smiling face seemed to be a shoutout to "Left Hand" AKA "Countenanced Carbuncle", which is the talking face symbiotically bound to Vampire Hunter D. He even used it the same way to absorb an attack.
When Strange tricked Peggy with the illusion of him as Steve he had done the exact same thing in S1 Ep4 when he tricked good Strange with Christine. What is even better they both state that “ I wish that were true” as Supreme Strange starts to glitch and punch them in the face.
This was great the connection at the end was amazing because it had been lacking in the franchise for to long. Well done not comparing it to anything just a very good step forward in Marvel storytelling. Hope this group of writers become more influential in future projects.
If you think about it, if you figure this season is after the Loki season 2 then Loki was keeping his promise and all the timelines we saw ended good for everyone and heroes kept winning the day. there was no bad timelines really other than Red Skull.
@@lightdarksoul2097 that’s because there was a clear mandate by marvel execs to have happy endings, since they feel happy endings are better for holiday season and they associate animation with kids, so they made more happy endings this season than they did last season, which had endings much more inspired by traditional sci-fi anthologies like Black Mirror/Twilight Zone/ and the actual What If comic series, where things would sometimes (if not often) end badly for that universe or the characters in it
I don't know about that since we did see that one world that was doomed by Red Skull though I think I could reason it out. The TVA and Loki himself wants Timelines to live and grow so unlike Kang since Loki took over things have been going in the good guys favor@@mon_nobi
I must of missed it, but you said that you would mention how that final shot was connected to Avengers Secret Wars? I didn't see that connection in this video. Is there a connection?
Zombies is in work and we never got a explanation of the end of zombies episode of what if where if you remember we had a zombie thanos with 5 stones waiting in wakanda and mind stone being carried there by tchalla and spiderman . So we may get him back
I might be wrong about this, but why does Colton pronounce Kahhori as “Kahhorti”? They’re not pronouncing it that way on the show I'm sure it was just a slight oversight, but it really takes me out of it for me especially since Colton stated in previous breakdowns of What If where he's a fan of Marvel respecting the different cultures I'm still gonna support the channel, I've been here since the Endgame breakdown, but this is the first time where I felt the need to point out this mistake, I'm sure this has been challenging since Marvel released one episode per day and you guys didn't have enough time to go as in depth as you have been doing in the past so I get it
I'm happy to say I really enjoyed this finale! This wasn't my favorite episode of the season, but I think it was a great and fun way to end the season and leave the door open for a 3rd season, which we know is coming! 8/10! Overall, though, this season was phenomenal! 9.5/10! I know some people have a problem with strange still being evil, but it does make sense to me because I think his arc properly finished at the end of his first episode. I think every other appearance he has made has just been bonus time, and since he was pretty much forced to stay alone in isolation with nothing but his thoughts and his deep depression/grief, it only seems logical he would fall into an extremely dark place again and relapse into his mission and darkest thoughts willing to sacrifice everything to bring back the woman he loves and bring back his universe.
Yeah but he was already isolated in his own universe at the end of his episode in season 1, processed his grief, and moved past it by the time Uatu came to him for help. He learned his lesson but the writers completely reversed his character growth as if it never happened at all.
@abhaybiradar3292 man the episodes were great and the finale too. Watch interstellar instead if you need that sort of experience. If a man wants he can point out plot holes starting from s1e1 to s2s9, just enjoy and go back to ur work
They overlooked the fact that Peggy can't enjoy alcohol. I always wondered why Thor didn't introduce him to as a guardian beer so they could get Captain America tipsy for once. It would have been hilarious
Yea I thought that was weird, I immediately said “but she can’t get drunk?” Thinking they would have Strange say a line about it being strong enough to affect her or something, but I guess not.
@@mon_nobi Bucky in the main MCU as seen in The Falcon and The Winter Soldier still consumes alcoholic beverages for custom and taste, so maybe it is like decaff coffee to supersoldiers.
One thing missed was that on Disney plus the What If background changed from purple, which was what the colour was for the first season and almost all of the second, to green, which represents Loki. Just a cool detail
Episode pitches for future What If seasons: - "What If Namor Fought in World War II". (gives us Namor, Cap, Bucky and others forming the MCU Invaders. Great chance to introduce OG Human Torch and pay off the First Avenger easter egg) - "What If Wenwu kidnapped Tony Stark". (sets up the Iron Man vs Mandarin fight the MCU deserved) - "What If Marc Spector Was the God Butcher". (keeps up the new trend of What If alluding to MCU shows like Loki S2 and combines them with the movies) - "What If The Celestials Intervened". (Celestials send the Eternals to stop Thanos from wiping out half of each world's population and this escalates to an Infinity Stone-power Thanos taking on Arishem). - "What If.....DEADPOOL". (Wade hijacks the show from The Watcher and goes nuts coming up with What If stories)
It is interesting how in Multiverse of Madness Reed Richards even says that the person that is the greatest threat to the multiverse is Stephen Strange and this finale proves that point.
Wow I had forgot about that.
Strange is the only character in the marvel universe that is in universe Mary sue. Only other other ones I can think of is Franklin, the starbrand and the Phoenix force
I believe that Strange Supreme did really recruit Kahhori to hunt down the universe killers, but escaped after learning what he was really doing, which would also explain why she is more accepting of the multiverse and able to speak English.
I'm pretty sure she could speak English because at some point America or some variation of it was still created in her world. She presumably learned Spanish in as little as a few months to a year or so considering the speed at which news traveled overseas back then because she was speaking it when she and the rest of her tribe portaled to Spain.
Kahori doesnt have a character development she just fell to the lake and she is one of the most powerful one. Why? Because shes a character from not popular culture. Why? Because shes a WOMAN.
@zimknxckb4ck She seems to be the most powerful because she got shot right before she fell in the lake so the tesseract energy seeped into her. Everyone else just fell in and only got powers from learning over time.
@@zimknxckb4ckshe wanted to save herself, then her brother, then her tribe, then her culture, then the earth, then the multiverse. That is growth.
As for how she was so good with everything, the rest wanted to get back, she needed to. Also wolf spirit.
Don't forget that Atahaks (Sp?) said that people who live in the Sky Realm have greatly extended lifespans, so Kahhori could have been alive for centuries evading Strange much as Sylvie did the TVA, since she was found in an apocalyptic Earth. She could have learned a great deal in that time.
I realized that Loki won't be alone for all of eternity. He'll have Watchers and multiverse travelers. Seeing that he damned himself to isolation for all eternity, it’s nice that he will actually have company
Sadly most of the watchers don't seem like the fun type to talk to but yeah multiversal travelers seem fun.
@@lightdarksoul2097they are alright if you also can see throughout the multiverse. You probably would see eye to eye (or reality to reality)
I expected white Hela to play a role (at least a small one) in this episode. We instead got regular Hela sharing her helmet.
It didn't even make sense for hela to use her helmet, her power doesn't come from her helmet!
@@mohammadconte9969I'm confused about that part too
@@mohammadconte9969 I mean we saw in the hela episodes that in some universes it is and Odin is even able to put her power into the helmet
@@mohammadconte9969 there was an episode where the collector got a hold of Hela's crown and got necrosword magic. so i guess its similar to how Thor's Lightning magic work. It can channel their power but is not necessary to create their power
Samee I was a little sad that she wasn’t apart of the team
Favorite thing about the series for me is the voice talent. Having Cumberbatch, Blanchett, Atwell joining Wright et al was amazing.
You could tell Cate had fun with this series.
Absolutely
Yes, I love that they get to come back to these roles and have fun with these stories without having to spend months doing stunt practice!
i was really suprised that many original actors took up their role again for this series
Best part of the whole series for me was seeing Yggdrasil at the end, I think it’s a hint that we haven’t seen the last of Loki. And you’re spot on that it’s tying the mcu together
Also hinting at getting a live action version of THIS Captain Carter. 🤞
We haven't see the last of Loki! 🤯
I doubt we've seen the last of Loki, but the ending of his series and the Yggdrasil "loom" gave his story a very nice conclusion, while still keeping it open that he could reappear at any point, even after the soft reboot they've been planning for after the end of Phase 6
Who would’ve thought that ONE scene (temporal tree at the end.) would give us goosebumps like the first three phases of MCU. We need more of this, to get rid of ” the superhero fatigue “ that I can’t stop hearing about .
We have a few good scenes like that here and there in some of these shows, but honestly some of that superhero fatigue that you're talking about was shown very evidently in this episode.
For me personally, the scene with Peggy Carter using Odin's enchanted sword, the infinity Stone/ vibranium armor, plus Helas helmet was all just a bit too much for me. It felt like it was overkill, it felt like it was jumping the shark. How many other overpowered weapons can we give someone? It was just a better done version of the finale of secret invasion.
It didn't. I received zero goosebumps from that, and I really enjoyed Loki. Most of the season was pure cringe.
Indeed. It was awesome
@@TheGr8one1022 maybe you should try enjoying things instead of hating it
We're definitely past due for a what if Quicksilver didn't kick the bucket
What If Quicksilver was a snail 😭
Here, here! Kahhori reminds me so much of Pietro. What if there is an in-depth reason for that? I’d love if Aaron Taylor-Johnson was returned to the MCU.
@@elizabethshannon5477Kahhori's power has nothing to do with Quicksilver. Kahhori and the natives have enhanced abilities they got from the Sky World. Maybe Kahhori and "Thunder beings" particularly run because running is a form of prayer in native american tribes. And also, Aaron Taylor-Johnson was unable to return in the MCU due to not being secured with a contract and already having deals with Sony for the Kraven movie.
I'd go for what if Wanda died instead of Pietro. That way they have an opening for bringing back Quicksilver without explaining his age.
@@kreepthicc3751 I’m aware that Kahhori’s speed power isn’t related to Pietro’s but they look similar. I also know about Aaron Taylor-Johnson’s role as Kraven but I do hope down the line he gets to reprise his role as Quicksilver along with Wanda and Vision. They were among the group of Avengers when I started reading Marvel comics so they’re among my personal favorites. Thank you anyway for the information especially about running as prayer among Native Americans.
I like the parallels between Supreme Strange and Wanda. Both of them learned their lesson messing with reality, but they were corrupted later by dark forces inhabiting them.
Truth! Nice thought
I am happy to see how What If shows grief can consume someone.. I can totally relate to this. The depth of grief is not always the same as the depth of love. It is what we do with this grief, that is more important.
Yes, plus both Kahhori and Peggy pointing out how Stephen had been alone with his grief for too long and had been driven mad by it. Grief can be unmanageable if when someone is isolated for so long. Not to mention Stephen has literal demons inside!
I can't believe both Thanos and Killmonger got yeeted while having the Infinity Stones in like 5 seconds.
Powercreep
Right! Kahori spanked infinity kilmonger in seconds yet couldn't touch strange supreme? Strange supreme caught the most powerful characters in the multiverse yet a basically enhanced human beat him? C'mon, just seemed like a lazy finale after a great season.
@@chadbinette3201y'all don't have the right perspective. Kahhori outsmarted Killmonger just fast enough to teleport him out of his suit. Killmonger snapped Thanos away because it's supposed to be ironic.
They then struggle with Strange because they don't want to kill him, and since he's way more competent than Killmonger he can't just be teleported away.
They needed to shut down the Forge at the same time as holding off Stephen, a multiversal level threat, while learning their powers. Kohhori is still limit testing, and Peggy isn't used to magic hence "oh that's a good idea" when he clones himself.
You call it lazy but your username has random numbers in it like .... y'all are not arbiters of creativity lmao
@@nailinthefashionLMAOOOOOOOOOOO this is perfect
@@nailinthefashion To be fair, the numbers in the user names is something TH-cam did to many accounts, including mine, for some unknown reason when they split the main default account into 2 or more. The accounts were/are also marked as a 'Brand Account' even though not being a Creator.
Even after saving the multiverse, Strange just can't let go of his grief and guilt. Can you blame him? He lost an entire universe when all he wanted to do was bringing back the woman he loved.
I know some folks can't fathom Strange returning to his issues, but honestly we never saw him overcome it, all we saw is him stopping a dangerous threat. His problems were never resolved until this episode.
Also, each time we saw him teased at the end of each episode he appeared, he certainly did give a villain vibe off him.
I blame writers tbh for making him wanda 2.0
Plus I mean The watcher likely knew all this but leaving Strange alone after all that would still only drive him more crazy which it did eventually. One team up for a like a few hours wasn't gonna make him a perfect hero again especially since now that I think about it he saw the power of the stones first hand and now maybe began to think of new ways of fixing his world.
@@sagarvishe3463 I mean, there is quite a considerable difference and justification with this Strange, though. First, I we think that in his episode he absorbed his other half to become stronger, it may not imply he is his mind as well. I´m saying that it could be that both Stephen were separate minds in one body. And when his world it´s destroyed, the corrupted version hid and the good version took control, seeing what we could consider his regret. And after episode 9, his corrupted versions see now a possibility to bring back his world back and takes control again of the body... I mean, the final scene where Strange fight against his demonic self could be proof of that. So it may be similar to Wanda, but the writers could had added some Spli/Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde element
Fr but the thing is characters like them who are insanely powerful need to either be killed or given a loki treatment cause you can't really show them fighting it becomes too one sided@@sagarvishe3463
"Going home the long way around" is a reference for Doctor Who, also it's quite fitting for a British super hero travelling space and time.
After watching this finale, I personally prefer the Season 1 finale more.
I thought I was the only one yeah me too I think it would have been better if they have one hero from every episode of the season
Yep.
To me it felt a little rushed n strange supreme being the villain came out of nowhere like it would have been better to have some build up to it. But to me it felt like they couldn’t come up a. Villain or problem so they were like fuck it let’s make the man the bad guy.
🙄
Yeah this one was just a big easter egg hunt. It was okay.
I felt the individual stories overall were stronger but the writing in the finale wasn't as dialed in as S1 Finale. I don't mind it too much there could be a lot of reasons why especially with an animated show. I'm just glad that it seemed like the people writing and handling the narrative seem to have put a good amount of effort into it.
I’m satisfied with the finale, even without a team. I’m sure there will be a Season 3
Marvel even kept the theme of the ultimate threat of the multiverse being Dr Strange alive for this season of What IF. I'm really fascinated to see what path 616 Strange is going to take after his travels with Clea. Side note: Thank you Colton for doing these breakdowns! Hope the entire team had a great Christmas!
This actually gives credit to the statement that the greatest threat to the multiverse can be a doctor strange like they said in that movie
The entire team doesn't necessarily celebrate Christmas. Learn about the world.
@@optimus2g Entirely possible but I wanted to wish them well regardless. No mal-intent here on this comment
This is what I was thinking when watching this episode I thought of MOM and when this strange destroyed his universe. There really leaning in to how Dr.Strange is the greatest threat to the multiverse. Would it be to insane to say in Secret Wars a version of strange might have universes fight to survive? If we think the multiverse is going to end and there’s going to be a reboot. A version of strange taking a few pieces from several universes and putting them together wouldn’t seem to far fetched. What else would he do? Sit and watch the multiverse being disintegrated or save what he can.
@@optimus2g In the UK, saying "Merry Christmas" is like saying "I hope you have a merry holiday season". I have had Muslims say "Merry Christmas" to me, and I to them. You say learn about the world? Well, take your own advice and learn that words and saying have different meanings around the world.
When Peggy saw through Strange's illusion, the first thing he did was throw a punch at her. This was a callback to the original Strange episode, where Supreme Strange did the same thing, only there, he managed to connect with the punch. This time, Peggy caught his fist, which is why he looked so surprised.
So with Strange Supreme's universe restored but without him, that creates the scenario of "What If ... Stephen Strange was never born?" Does Dormammu take over or does say Tony Stark become the Sorcerer?
Stark is my guess
I would guess Mordo would be chosen as the next Sorcerer Supreme... and pretty much fill in anything Steven would have done.
What if Tony Stark became Dr Strange Supreme sounds like a What if Season 3 title......
@@samuraijedi1669 Then he would pretty much just become Dr. Doom ;)
@@grimtrixI’m definitely ready for Dr Doom. Bring it!
Thank you sooooo much for covering this season Colton!! You did amazing!!
Thank you for watching!
Minor correction: The reason that Killmonger was most likely able to use the stones with impunity was because of the Infinity Ultron armor, not the heart shaped herb.
Yeah peggy was about to use them safely thanks to the armor pieces and her suit. Putting the stone in clothes or items seem to protect you.
@@lightdarksoul2097Tbf I suspect the serum/herb help. Don’t know if a normal human could get in that armor, even with all that protection.
But yeah I do agree the armor was the biggest reason
True Peggy being able to hold the stones even for a few seconds was likely thanks to the serum and likely black panther could too@@withalittlehelpfrom3
Disagree with both of you, I think it is because he only snapped one person and not 1246 billion creatures all over the universe
@@Robin-be1zmBanner and Tony literally started getting hurt from the stones the moment they wore it.
Remember when Doctor Strange Supreme had one of the best character Arcs in Mavel?
The MCU wasted him. 🗑
Uhh no he was forced into another job and being alone for eternity would likely drive you nutty
He was told to sit and watch one orb for eternity. Not an arch
Watcher said Strange Supreme never born after his sacrifice to bring his universe back, but I hope he will bring back in season 3 as a redemption hero.
IDK TBH they shouldn't have undid his redemption this season in the first place. That's my only real gripe with season 2.
Marvel wasted Strange Supreme's character Arc.
And now our journey with "What If.....?" S2 ends! As someone who read the first volume of the comic off the stands (I'm not mistyping; that's how old I am!), I still find this amazing!!! What a great level of entertainment Marvel and you have provided!!! THANKS, Colton (and Doug and Ryan!) for that!!!!
Made my girl who's always primarily been a DC fan her entire life, (she likes Spider-Man from Marvel but that was it) watch the Loki series & then this What If.. series with me, she loved Loki & then we both got to experience the ending of Season 2 What If.. together. We literally made love for an hour afterwards because of how happy she was for me showing her how good Marvel can be.
The way they emphasized when she asked "or are you just just here to narrate?"
Made me think, if there a God of Stories, it makes sense to have someone to "Read" or witness/ watch the stories.
Great tie in
Loved these Season! Kahorri story was great!
The butterflies was a reference to the first doctor strange movie when the ancient one pushed strange around the universe when he was trying to become her student
The first season was cool. You knew why the watcher was watching them. Then he collected them all to be the guardians of the multiverse and it made sense. Who didn't know Dr. Strange was going to lose from the beginning.
Ok? So I suppose in every movie the good guys win. So you don't like watching any of them!?
OK but seriously, how does Peggy catch all 6 stones and use them with no damage? If hulk couldn't do that, Peggy shouldn't either.
She was wearing the Infinity Armor. This allows the bearer to handle all the stones together.
Infinity armor. She was wearing basically a full-body infinity gauntlet.
@@griffgames9538 she wasn’t when she grabbed them all at the end and punched Dr strange
@@jj2059 she is worthy
I really like her character but overpowering her and being the lead of the multiversal threats makes no sense to me....
I think Peggy called Strange a lifesaver is just her using a common expression and not really layered into anything. Like Freud said, “Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar”. Not everything needs to be an Easter egg or a call back or mean anything.
Also two other things, when Kahhori says the thing about kneeling, it is a reference to what Captain America said to Loki in the first Avengers movie in Munich.
And when the monster Strange is falling with Peggy, it is shot in a similar style to when the balrog and Gandalf fall in Moria, with Gandalf fighting the balrog as they fall.
Yeah. It's as if he was desperate to find some type of callback.
The kneeling was in fact a reference to her past.
Man this was actually an incredible season and amazing finale I loved it way more than I thought I would
Also the logo is changed to be the What If versions of the characters normally in the logo.
Colten!
About the multiversal tree, OMG you really nailed it, It's exactly how I felt ! Finally!!
My favorite of all was Episode 5. It was a masterpiece, complete, comprehensive!
Indeed Episode 5 was the BEST, with Episode 4 and 8 being a close second
That's so strange, episode 5 was the worst one this season.
@@dominikschalleryeah that was one episode were i slept watching... So boring... Most of them were good, 8 and 7 were best... They completely ruined strange supreme's storyline... It just not adds up with his previous redemption arc
@@FaizanShaikh-ih3uuyeah 7 was the best for me...
Thanks Colton. I've really enjoyed your enthusiasm while you present these episodes.
Thanks so much!
The Paul cameo was too funny
I'm pretty sure that scene where Strange uses the "hand demon" to swallow Peggy's attacks is a throwback to Vampire Hunter D. It's an old anime where the Son of Dracula hunts vamps. His hand eats magic and lots of other things. Check it out
To me, the entire point of What If is to have fun breaking continuity. Not making a separate meta-continuity.
Unfortunately the actual MCU itself became a broken continuity of sorts and it fits better that what If will somehow restore the continuity
@@keerthichandra376they can also do so much more in animation
13:13 that moment is actually a reference to Strange's own episode where he tried the same trick on his good counterpart. And both good strange and Peggy give the same reaction: "I wish that were true but... You're not him/her"
I just can't believe they *recycled* the same *Kingpin Plot* for the *4th TIME in a row!!!*
*Into the Spider-Verse 1:* Kingpin want to steal wife and son from another universe, ignoring that they wouldn't like it.
*into the Spider-Verse 2:* Pretty much the same motivations behind the messed up mind of Spider-Man 2099.
*Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness:* Wanda want to steal her kids from another universe, ignoring that they wouldn't like it... she also don't give a f**k anymore about poor Vision or her brother, or her parents at all.
*Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness:* Evil Strange pretty much did the same Miguel did, but he want to keep doing it, so, yes, the same plot TWICE (once again) in the same movie.
And now, *What If, Season 2:* who's the bad guy? *EVIL DOCTOR STRANGE* who want's to do exactly what he did in the movie... *AGAIN!*
When Kahhori says "zombies!" and mentions them being universal it could be a little nod to how some of the indigenous peoples have myths about flesh eating cannibal monsters called the Wendigo, which is the whole inspiration for zombies
I hope Cowboy Loki gets his own episode in season 3. Rocket and Groot need their own episode too considering they are two of the Guardians that have appeared the least in this series.
I do think we'll see an episode maybe on the guardians around the tiem of 3 since most of this season seemed on phase 2 and 3
Agreed. Not enough Loki this season for my taste.
In that case then we will need a whole new season just to tell Sam Wilson stories. He hasn't even been mentioned once since F&TWS, despite their being so many opportunities to have him appear either as a variant, a multiversal Captain America, a multiversal Falcon, or literally anything at all. He should’ve been included in the Hydra Stomper episode since he debuted in that Winter Soldier movie sharing screentime with Cap, Barnes, Fury, & Nat, but nope, they totally pretend he just never existed in any universe. I get that he has a movie coming out next year but that doesn’t explain why they haven’t even said so much as his name in all of Phase 5. At least Shang Chi’s lore, villains, and weapons are being referenced here & there, but there’s just so many things that haven’t been touched on at all and the lack of updates on Sam Wilson is becoming a bit too glaring.
I literally got goosebumps jumped out of my chair as soon as they showed Yggdrasil. What a time to be alive lmao
Happy New Year ScreenCrush crew! Thank you for all you do!🎉
Happy New Year!
Ultron with the Infinity Stones was a better villain than Strange Supreme.
Thoroughly enjoyed Colton's coverage on this, great work! Thank ya'll for all your hard work!
Thank you!
While I was watching this episode, I had this one moment of epiphany when Strange Supreme wanted to resurrect his universe again. And with this recent backlash with regards who could replace Kang or Doctor Doom in Avengers 5 or Secret Wars… well… Strange Supreme had just risen to the top of my list. Even if he supposedly vanished at the end of the episode, he could definitely be someone who could create Battleworld in a multiversal destruction aftermath scenario.
For sure. Also, there could be another Strange Supreme who just played his cards a little more effectively than the one we saw in this episode…
No
When I saw all the villains and heroes unleashed, I thought Battle World was where we were going. I loved the tease of Loki's multiverse tree, though.
I think this was meant to be a foreshadow of what could be happening with battle world. It's the same premise. An evil multiversal threat gathers all the greatest heroes and villains and they end up fighting each other. What if season 1 came out before M.O.M and we got some glimpses of characters similar to supreme strange.
The finale gave me chills and got me choked up. I love how, like you said, it brought everything together. Great season, great show, great "what ifs"!
Colten, thank you again for the awesome recap!
I loved this episode, and I didn't even see it coming, the writers still surprised me.
Have a happy New Year ScreenCrush team!
Thanks so much! You too!
Bullshit you dint see the girl power finale ending comings..?...when only girls where recruited by strange.....
@@godkilla206do females make you uncomfortable, feel insecure?
If you look closely at the sequence recapping the guardians of the multiverse, they left gamorra in the clip
Questions
1) why strange need Peggy in 1st place?? He easily can catch kahori with single snap.
2) how kahori know about strange plan? I don't think he will explain his plan to anyone.
3) how Peggy cracked that pocket dimension with her shield?? Strange captured beings with 6 infinity stone in it. But none able to brake that thing but surprisingly captain carter did it.
4) kahori a character who unable to handel normal people with guns, bht suddenly she started overpowering strange supreme, killed killmonger, tricked wanda??
5) shield is for absorbing physical attack. How she able to survive strange blast??
6) tony died, hulk hand burnt, thanos nearly killed by 6 infinity stone. But PEGGY CARTER Is ONE ABOVE ALL. She can catch them without any problem.
7) strange is the one who captured those heroes and villians. Then why the hell, after released by captain carter, they started fighting eachother instead strange supreme??
8) the Space stone itself cannot transfer any individual to another universe. Then how the hell kahori able to do that?? Suddenly he can create thousands of portal easily. How she know, that which character belongs to which universe???
9) how new universe created?? Because no character burnt in that forge except supreme strange.
If supreme strange had any idea abou own sacrifice will create his universe again, he would have sacrifice himself happily instead of collecting heroes and villians.
So collection of multiversal villian, hero's don't make scene.
10) Peggy carter have very little idea about infinity stone. How could she respond strange effectively??
At the end--- literally MCU become M-SHE-U. Watcher saying, multiver needed Captain carter not watcher. They overpowered her and treating her like she is LIVING TRIBUNAL or ETERNITY like being. If just super soldier serum is enough to kill gods, then no need to introduce god like beings. Our steve and captain carter will save whole multiverse.
Literally to over powered character defeated a god like being. Unnecessarily killed strange and surprisingly created a universe.😂😂😂😂
I think he had Kahori and she escaped
good analysis question
Great work on the run downs, Colton! You're the first ScreenCrush presenter to match Ryan in entertainment value, and I hope we get to see more of you... they just need to either get you out of that TV or send you a backdrop of your own into your TV world... you've earned it.
I felt like Strange's backslide into villain territory wasn't developed enough, though I know they were trying to keep it as a surprise twist. But by the end of last season, he was on the right track only to fall again with no lead-in. His "inner demons" took the credit, but the line was so throw-away that it still seemed a bit of a disappointment from a story perspective.
And I'm still waiting for a Captain Carter "What If" spin-off series.... c'mon Disney!
What do u mean still waiting? This second season kind of feels like a captain carter spinoff to be honest. It didnt feel like a cohesive broader story as how the first season felt
This entire season was a Captain Carter story. Three out of nine episodes were dedicated to her story and two other episodes eventually tied into it by the end.
Captain Carter is the main character of "What If?..."
Colton is a fresh breeze of positivity for the channel. He's a fan just being a fan.
Drinking game: Take a shot for everytime he calls Kahhori ''KahhorTi''.
Not mentioned in the video, but the zoomed out shot of Carter and Strange falling into the forge gave me serious Gandalf and the Balrog vibes
Definitely an homage there.
Did anyone else catch the LOTR reference to Gandalf fighting the Balrog. The bridge breaking, both of them falling and fighting each other?
Loved it 🔥
Anybody noticed that two members of the Guardians of Multiverse became final villains of each season finale?
- Killmonger
- Strange Supreme
Makes you wonder if Captain Carter will flip in season 3 for her own reasons such as never getting a happy ending with Steve? Or all her multiverse traveling and saving worlds changing events could also be effecting things and make her a target. Who knows I can’t wait to see events unfold
@@BeenUceSince95I think Captain America variants are best written when their cause is righteous, relatable, but can be opposed with something equally noble like the Sokovia accords debate, or when the nobility is twisted by an evil action like Stephen finally admitting he's willing to kill her to resurrect his universe. It makes Captain America always right, but sometimes naive like with the Incursions and Secret Wars. Steve/Sam wouldn't be willing to sacrifice another universe for our own.
No shit sharlock
I think I would like to see the other Watchers eventually become villains as they see that things in this part of multiverse keep nearly killing everyone@@BeenUceSince95
Ooooh, make u wonder WHO the Season 3 What IF finale villian is gonna be......
Was really confused why there wasn’t a Deadpool variant in Strange’s Universe-Killers collection.
This is an episode that needed work.
Changes required:
-Put a greater focus on Strange Supreme’s inner battle so it doesn’t look like a character assassination.
-Replace the Infinity Armor with Allmother Hela. This fixes two problems:
•Kahhori, who has a fraction of one gem’s power, beating someone with all six makes no sense whatsoever.
•Allmother Hela’s episode built her up as someone who’d be a big player, but we just got the normal version instead.
Edit: Also, enough with this “guardians of the multiverse” nonsense. They’re clearly an Exiles team.
Yes! Especially the point about one gem beating essentially 6. Makes no sense. Logic is too convoluted even for a What If show.
She didn't really beat killmonger she teelported him out of his armor. A good amount of powers from the stones require the user to be creative which many like Thanos are not. Why didn't Killmonger snap Peggy too? It's because he obviously wanted to fight her due to her helping stop him. Kahhori is about to use the portals, running, and teleporting to just get her enemies out of their way
Think smarter not harder
yeah, Kahorri who got basically beaten up by ship cannons randomly pops up in finale beating everyone and shielding everything coming at her? this just felt so lame
Having more stores doesn't make you a better stone user.
LMFAO at Heavy Spoilers cameo singing lol
Am I the only person who screamed mr misery?
The smoke creature was created in the same manner.
All strange’s cost and burdens concentrated into a single part of his soul.
This means we have two, one in MoM and one here
Seeing Asgardians being powerful is a treat
After with what they did with Odin a few episodes back...
What If Season 2
What if we can get Carter into ALMOST every single episode.
Peggy with the Infinity Stones could have used them to also see Captain America.
True but I think the ones she had likely broke after that punch
If you watch the concept art on the credits, the last one is a shot of loki-season-1-esque branching timelines, which I imagine were likely replaced with yggdrasil quite late in production.
But yeah, big fan of who I'm calling "Infinity Carter", and hope she plays a role (more than just a cameo) in the upcoming secret wars.
Great video ScreenCrush and What If season 2 was so good :]
Thanks so much!
@coltonhere but where is Ryan arie?
I’m not sure if it’s in the previous comments but I was chuckling when Capt Carter said to leave it to the warden when Hela and Surter were starting to fight. Little nod to Clancy Brown and Shawshank
Was some of Captain Carter feats overpowered?
This episode was rushed, and I wish the used some like Dormammu or Thanos as the villain.
If Killmonger has the heart shaped medicine then why did Thanos get sacred. I thought is was the armor he had.
Dormammu isn't really someone you can take out of the dark dimension and if you did he would always be the same guy we saw in doctor strange since the dimension isn't stapled to one universe. It was the armor it's why Peggy had to take it.
@@lightdarksoul2097no, they are unique to each universe
@@Ked7 I don't know since look at clea who may be a unique human in the multiverse
2 things
1) Hela crying out "Give him hell!" as she fell into the Forge was a clever play on words. It referred both to the "hell" we mean when we say "Give them hell" as in "kick their asses!" and it referred to the Nordic goddess of the Underworld, "Hel," who the MCU's version is based on.
2) This may be reaching but the full demonic form of Dr. Strange who the "good" Strange had to fight against in the end reminded me of Chernabog from the "Night on Bald Mountain/Ave Maria" section of the Disney movie Fantasia.
2 feel it may be intentional. As they changed demon strange’s design. It looks closer to either that guy or clithon. I can not spell to save my life
We saw infinity Ultron destroyed other universes only using 6 infinity stones with a special vibranium suit in season 1, Infinty Ultron literally bite and destroy a universe while fighting with the Watcher.Therefore Why all the effort to dumping all the powerful heroes and villain in the multiverse to the Forge. Strange Supreme only need to wear a vibranium suit with six infinty stones and then make a wish to bring back his own universe back to life. If 6 infinty stones powerful enough to destroy universes, same 6 infinty stones can use to recreate/build universes too. I love the magical fight action scenes in finale, but this episode make no sense to me.
Easier to destroy than to create
Well look at it like this, using the reality stone kinda only ever lets you change reality in certain places. Thanos making all of Knowhere look different for example but when you let the stone go or stop focusing on it's use the reality breaks down.
Bruh. "You're a life saver" is just a compliment. Give me a break. Next, you'll say the tree they were peeping from at the end is a call out to the tree people from Lord of the Rings.
This finale really made me think that they need to bring in Lord and Miller for the next season of what if, or at least the finale. I really enjoyed this episode, but it did seem like a much lower quality version of the scene in into the spider verse when you meet all the different Spider Men. I can only imagine what they could have done with this finale.
They legit just did their own mini secret wars
In case it hasn't been pointed out already, you did miss a character at @ 9.25 Colton. If you look behind Rocket, that's your mom.
Great work on these videos 👍🏽
I was waiting for Kahori to sing Reflection at the end.
Cmon Disney...MCU didnt make money from princesses. Stop it. Also it would have helped if they made an episode with Kahori and Strange hunting down the univere killers to explain why shes there, why shes that powerful, and what the friggin heck is the Forge!
I really enjoyed this finale and the season overall it was great i think it was a epic way to end this season, and leave the door open for season 3
Happy new year colton ,and screencrush team thank you for amazing review this season it was a journey!
@abhaybiradar3292you have even more questionable taste for watching the show with that opinion and probably the season before and most marvel media
Season 1 Finale was really good that made season 2 finale look like fan episode
I definitely agree that this season finale had a lot more of “nerds smashing toys together in a sandbox” energy than “character driven multiverse story” energy. Instead of giving Carter & Kahhori more MCU macguffins/artifacts to use against Strange, I think spending just a little time on the actual characters, especially showing either Strange’s recidivism and/or his good side, would’ve been a better and more emotionally satisfying finale to the episode. The action and callbacks to other characters was great don’t get me wrong, but it was a bit too much relative to the amount of story the episode was actually telling.
I liked the second season more but the finale was very underwhelming. Really disappointed what they did with supreme strange especially since it seemed like he learned his lesson last time he tried to save Christine but I guess he didn’t for some reason…
I mean... he didn't really since what was there to learn when you were left alone for who knows how long. He had a team for a few hours and then was left along again but this time he saw that in other universes there was thoses he could use just like the watcher. I can see him doing his job at first and protecting universes but slowly that grief and anger rising. All these infinite universes and yet his ended like it did. Why wouldn't he try again?
@@lightdarksoul2097I chalked it up to the demons inside of him making him forgo rational thinking.
Thats true too, the only part of him that was still good was the good strange he absorbed. The rest had been taken in by the grief and pain@@joshinthesauce4636
@@joshinthesauce4636 just like the Darkhold
Nice job Colton!
Thank you!
It kinda makes sense though. Like, in episode 4, we see that Strange was split into two. Who´s to say that even fused together, both Strange remained as two consciousness in one body, and in episode 9 we see his good side since the bad side could had hidden deeper since his plan failed and when he got the role of keeping an eye to Zola and Killmonger, his demonic side might had found another solution to his plans and then uses his inner grief to take control of his body again and then that´s how we got his role in this episode?
I like the theory and I wish they had explored it more in this episode. Strange supreme seems to have a similar arc like main universe Wanda where in she turns villain in MoM after having a redemption arc in Wanda vision (Both had negative influences either via absorbed demons or the darkhold). I think this episode was not as well structured as the rest of the season. Bringing back good strange (establishing him as a separate character, spending an extra scene on him and then having him sacrifice himself) would have made for a good third act instead of providing every weapon ever for two heroes to use against strange supreme, making the story more character driven.
Also really digging how well what if has basically given us a Captain Carter series
@@kritichaplot5025 I definitely agree that rather than the “nerds smashing toys together in a sandbox” plot device of giving them more Mcu macguffins/artifacts to use against Strange, I think spending just a little time on the actual characters, especially showing either Strange’s recidivism and/or his good side, would’ve been a better and more emotionally satisfying finale to the episode. The action and callbacks to other characters was great don’t get me wrong, but it was a bit too much relative to the amount of story the episode was actually telling.
Admittedly I don't watch every breakdown yall make, and I have never seen Colton host a breakdown. And I gotta say you (screen)CRUSHED it my guy! Good stuff, well presented!
Thank you!!
This Season is such a improvement from season 1, can't wait what they're cooking for season 3, i need to see That powerful Hulk and Cowboy loki 👀
It was a call back when Thanos use the power gem to punch captain marvel
Each season 2 episode felt complete and left me satisfied for being 30 min stories. Definitely a treat. Thanks Colton, Ryan, and Dug for the entertaining breakdowns. Happy 2024 ScreenCrush crew and fellow Watchers! (had to throw that last word in)
Okay i did enjoy seeing loki's timeline tree at the end of the episode that was a fun connection.
Strange's hand with the smiling face seemed to be a shoutout to "Left Hand" AKA "Countenanced Carbuncle", which is the talking face symbiotically bound to Vampire Hunter D. He even used it the same way to absorb an attack.
This was pretty much what I figured as well, the hand is so iconic of Vampire Hunter D
When Strange tricked Peggy with the illusion of him as Steve he had done the exact same thing in S1 Ep4 when he tricked good Strange with Christine. What is even better they both state that “ I wish that were true” as Supreme Strange starts to glitch and punch them in the face.
Zombie Wanda gonna be the final villain in Season 3. Lol
This was great the connection at the end was amazing because it had been lacking in the franchise for to long. Well done not comparing it to anything just a very good step forward in Marvel storytelling. Hope this group of writers become more influential in future projects.
Anyone else noticed that Tony Stark didn't die in this season?
If you think about it, if you figure this season is after the Loki season 2 then Loki was keeping his promise and all the timelines we saw ended good for everyone and heroes kept winning the day. there was no bad timelines really other than Red Skull.
@@lightdarksoul2097 that’s because there was a clear mandate by marvel execs to have happy endings, since they feel happy endings are better for holiday season and they associate animation with kids, so they made more happy endings this season than they did last season, which had endings much more inspired by traditional sci-fi anthologies like Black Mirror/Twilight Zone/ and the actual What If comic series, where things would sometimes (if not often) end badly for that universe or the characters in it
I don't know about that since we did see that one world that was doomed by Red Skull though I think I could reason it out. The TVA and Loki himself wants Timelines to live and grow so unlike Kang since Loki took over things have been going in the good guys favor@@mon_nobi
I must of missed it, but you said that you would mention how that final shot was connected to Avengers Secret Wars? I didn't see that connection in this video. Is there a connection?
This episode was phenomenal! 🙌🏾
That end battle scene with all the villains felt low key like some battle world stuff! Truly a MoM! 🔥
Almost like a teaser to BW
Riiiiiiight! 😉
Yes, I love the madness!
The finales from both seasons are the best apology Marvel could’ve given us for Multiverse of Madness. 😊
We need a What If? episode on Zombie Thanos.
Zombies is in work and we never got a explanation of the end of zombies episode of what if where if you remember we had a zombie thanos with 5 stones waiting in wakanda and mind stone being carried there by tchalla and spiderman .
So we may get him back
I might be wrong about this, but why does Colton pronounce Kahhori as “Kahhorti”?
They’re not pronouncing it that way on the show
I'm sure it was just a slight oversight, but it really takes me out of it for me especially since Colton stated in previous breakdowns of What If where he's a fan of Marvel respecting the different cultures
I'm still gonna support the channel, I've been here since the Endgame breakdown, but this is the first time where I felt the need to point out this mistake, I'm sure this has been challenging since Marvel released one episode per day and you guys didn't have enough time to go as in depth as you have been doing in the past so I get it
I'm happy to say I really enjoyed this finale! This wasn't my favorite episode of the season, but I think it was a great and fun way to end the season and leave the door open for a 3rd season, which we know is coming! 8/10! Overall, though, this season was phenomenal! 9.5/10! I know some people have a problem with strange still being evil, but it does make sense to me because I think his arc properly finished at the end of his first episode. I think every other appearance he has made has just been bonus time, and since he was pretty much forced to stay alone in isolation with nothing but his thoughts and his deep depression/grief, it only seems logical he would fall into an extremely dark place again and relapse into his mission and darkest thoughts willing to sacrifice everything to bring back the woman he loves and bring back his universe.
Yeah but he was already isolated in his own universe at the end of his episode in season 1, processed his grief, and moved past it by the time Uatu came to him for help. He learned his lesson but the writers completely reversed his character growth as if it never happened at all.
I agree with u 9.5/10 except the fact that it was my favouite episode (rest 0.5/10)
@abhaybiradar3292 man the episodes were great and the finale too. Watch interstellar instead if you need that sort of experience. If a man wants he can point out plot holes starting from s1e1 to s2s9, just enjoy and go back to ur work
I agree that the show finally felt connected! Whoever writes What If should be writing the main MCU! Thanks for doing these over the holidays.
They overlooked the fact that Peggy can't enjoy alcohol. I always wondered why Thor didn't introduce him to as a guardian beer so they could get Captain America tipsy for once. It would have been hilarious
Yea I thought that was weird, I immediately said “but she can’t get drunk?” Thinking they would have Strange say a line about it being strong enough to affect her or something, but I guess not.
@@mon_nobi Bucky in the main MCU as seen in The Falcon and The Winter Soldier still consumes alcoholic beverages for custom and taste, so maybe it is like decaff coffee to supersoldiers.
Strange Supreme: "I cross my heart"
Me watching: you have no heart...
I can't believe the current MCU got to Marvel's What If? finale. 😢
One thing missed was that on Disney plus the What If background changed from purple, which was what the colour was for the first season and almost all of the second, to green, which represents Loki.
Just a cool detail
Episode pitches for future What If seasons:
- "What If Namor Fought in World War II". (gives us Namor, Cap, Bucky and others forming the MCU Invaders. Great chance to introduce OG Human Torch and pay off the First Avenger easter egg)
- "What If Wenwu kidnapped Tony Stark". (sets up the Iron Man vs Mandarin fight the MCU deserved)
- "What If Marc Spector Was the God Butcher". (keeps up the new trend of What If alluding to MCU shows like Loki S2 and combines them with the movies)
- "What If The Celestials Intervened". (Celestials send the Eternals to stop Thanos from wiping out half of each world's population and this escalates to an Infinity Stone-power Thanos taking on Arishem).
- "What If.....DEADPOOL". (Wade hijacks the show from The Watcher and goes nuts coming up with What If stories)
These are brilliant and exactly what I dreamed to watch in this season...
I think moon knight will appear next season and so will Namor so who knows?