“The theist would choose ignorance” had to be the best line in the history of the show. The fact that a theist is the one who said it makes it that much better
Both are wrong though. Some people don't actually choose ignorance but just are. The ones who choose it are obviously worse (depending on how important the topic is). Acting like you know everything and are better than everyone is also bad. I'm sure some people would be put off from even listening to someone who exudes arrogance, like that guy on the right. He seems too emotional.
@viktortandofsky6914See what NN said. If you think to yourself "[this] is how I believe reality works" we couldn't care less. If say to us that we should also believe [this] or we should change laws because of [this], then you very much have to justify your claim.
@@mikerodgers7620How is it ignorant to be Unconvinced of something that has no evidence? That’s basic common sense. “Faith” has led theists to at least 3000 different gods. So even IF one of those gods was actually Real, “Faith” is 1500x less reliable than a coin toss at getting you to the correct one. You don’t believe in 2999 of those Gods. I don’t believe in 3000 of them. Thats a difference of 0.03%
The theist says "there's a god" The atheist says "I don't believe you." That's it. That's the atheist position. I don't believe you. That cannot be a lie. It's an opinion.
It is only a lie if the theist has provided convincing evidence for his assertion, but you choose to deliberately ignore the evidence. Creationists' arguments have been convincingly debunked, but they continue to use the same debunked arguments. So, creationism is a lie.
@@themanifestmage And that's the thing. They use one scripture in Romans to "prove" that god is self-evident and therefore anyone who says they don't believe is simply lying because they want to sin. It's circular and ad-homien at best.
The theist says most people who have ever lived believed in some kind of god and most people alive in the modern west today believe in some kind of supernatural realm. Perhaps you need to bring forth evidence in support of your extraordinary claim that all these countless hordes are wrong because they cannot prove their belief according to a standard of measure invented 20 minutes ago (relatively soeaking).
Indeed. If one believes in something for which they have no evidence, then they're choosing to believe it for no other reason than because they want to. It's wishful thinking. Don't get my wrong, I'd love for there to be a god. I mean, not any of the gods in the holy books, those gods are dickheads. But a truly kind, loving, superior being, the existence of magic, living in a paradise and getting to see long lost loved ones again, that all sounds great. But there's nothing indicative of that being the case, and I couldn't force myself to believe something just because it sounds nice.
His last response is "yeah but if we had evidence like that then it would go against the presupposition I have made regarding this god idea." Sure. So what? Since there's no reason at all to believe your presupposition is correct, this is not an argument.
If someone says, "I don't believe that gods exist" it is not impossible that they are lying and they actually do believe that at least one god exists. But , depending on the person, it may be difficult to prove they are lying. And to take that a step further, it would be extremely difficult to prove that every person who makes such a claim is lying. So difficult that I cannot even conceive how anyone could begin to do it. Therefore, anyone making the claim that "atheism is a lie" either cannot reasonably support their claim, or is so clever and well-informed that they may as well be a god themselves. This caller did not seem to possess those qualities.
Hey, "extraordinary claim ...." etc. Literally billions of people believe in a supernatural realm and, so far we can tell, always have. The majority of people in the modern west are to some extent, and totally irrationally, superstitious. Many believe in ghosts, goolies, phantoms, bad luck, good luck, omens, charms, witchcraft and wizardry. But atheism (I assume) denies the existence of any such realm of the supernatural. Therefore atheists are making the extraordinary claim that the majority of human beings who ever lived, and perhaps most of those still alive today - are wrong! And then have the audacity to ask them for proof! Your arrogance defies measurement.
Theists tell us all the time that they have evidence that proves their deity exists yet every single time they are challenged to present that evidence they dodge and deflect before they flail and fail. With a 100% failure rate, how is it that Atheists are the liars exactly?
If no one can know whether gods exist, and you claim a god exists, wouldn't you be the one lying? Because you are claiming to know something you've admitted no one can know? This is why I think faith is inherently dishonest.
Mike tried to evade that by claiming he doesn't know his god exists, he just believes it. In that case he's deceiving himself by accepting claims on faith instead of evidence.
@kelvintonblortsmon2457 You just made a bunch of claims, with no substantiation. Knowledge is justified belief. Meaning you can show the belief maps accurately to reality. God has NOT been proved, proofs are for mathematics and alcohol. You also haven't demonstrated a god is needed for the universe to begin and go through processes. We don't even know if the universe needed a caused for it's current instantiation to begin, like some quantum phenomenon appear to have no causes. Even if you could demonstrate the universe needed a cause, you would have to demonstrate your god exists and could be a possible cause, then demonstrate it was the cause. That means you need evidence for your god, evidence being a body of verifiable facts that solely indicate the truth of a claim. Truth being that which can be demonstrated to comport with reality, or that which can be shown to be real. The Bible hold the claims, you can't use it to substantiate itself, that would be circular.
@kelvintonblortsmon2457 The Bible hold the claims, it would be circular to use the bible to justify the claims made in the bible. Knowledge is justifiable belief, at least the way I and others use it. Believing something means you are convinced it is true, you know it if you can also demonstrate it is true. Proof is for math and alcohol, you need evidence for your god and Bible. Evidence being a body of verifiable facts, that solely indicate the truth of a claim. Truth being that which can be shown to be real, or comport with reality.
The argument that "atheists really believe in god, they just deny it so they can sin!" is possibly one of the stupidest apologetics arguments I've ever heard. Those kinds of apologists just cannot conceive of a mindset that doesn't believe, or even isn't capable of that sort of belief without evidence or sound reason.
Nooo you don't get it! I know god is real, but i want to sin, so i choose to deny god exists, including not repenting to him, which makes SURE i am punished for my sins that i love doing! What's illogical about that? /s
Yup, and like many apologetic arguments, the accusation is an admission. Many theists (especially Christians) believe in their god so they can sin, because in their minds their god will forgive them as long as they pray sorry and that's all that matters. That's assuming the transgression isn't something their god actually condones (e.g. oppressing LGBTQ+ people, slavery, etc.).
Its funny because America is one of the most religious nations and the one with a ridiculous incarceration rate. The belief doesn't stop people from sinning.....if anything since they believe they will be forgiven at a church that will help them cope with their crimes. Just teach your children morals you don't need religion for that.
@@OzmaLogical That's an interesting twist on it! After all, Christians are amongst the most egregious sinners of all. Between the Western European powers that eventually emerged from the Roman Empire, they enslaved half the planet!
@@JT-yl9yt I suspect morals have nothing to do with religion or lack of it, they're to do with how you were brought, in combination with good or bad luck with your genetics. Of all the historical monsters I can think of, while some have been atheist (the various communists, mainly), the rest have happily used god to justify their tyranny, and believed their rule was divinely ordained.
This caller: "Atheism is a lie." Also this caller: "Nobody has any evidence God exists." So then, how is atheism a lie, if theists can't prove to atheists that God exists?
@@mikerodgers7620 "Formally, I call it Objectivism, but informally I call it a philosophy for living on earth. You will find an explicit presentation of it in my books, particularly in Atlas Shrugged." -Ayn Rand-
I almost have to admire this guy! They completely eviscerated him in about a minute, but he gamely waded back into the fight... like Rocky Balboa with ten times the brain damage.
Seeing a good or sound reason is why many people chose a faith based life. This guy just throws out sh*t to confuse his callers and wins arguments to try and make his stance look more valid...
The caller begins on distinctly the wrong foot. "Last time I called, you hung up on me. I hope that won't happen again." Why, because you learned something from your mistake the last time? Because if you lack that capacity, it would be reasonable to expect that you'll get hung up on again.
11:24 I'm reminded of the time I found a bigot hiding behind his bible so I asked him if he protested Red Lobster with the same fervor, given that it is an abomination in the eyes of his god. He called me a hypocrite because _"no one follows that part!"_ and that really sums up a lot of both religion and politics.
Even though I'm not a bigot at all, sometimes I wish someone had tried this line of popular argument against my father just to watch his probable response of laughing in disbelief and asking, "Oh, you think THAT is the extent of my pickiness? Avoiding Red Lobster? If only! Oh, my, what you have yet to learn." My family were good people at heart but they were totally slaves of the religion and my father in fact had us follow every line of all of it that wouldn't have landed us in prison. Every. Line. He delivered all his children at home himself without the help of doctors and we were exempted from certain "mandatory" childhood vaccines on religious reasons (not the modern vaccine-fear stuff, he generally liked them, but some contain supposedly "unclean" banned materials). We couldn't eat all sorts of things, every single thing Leviticus banned of course. And we couldn't wear mixed fabrics. This usually meant making sure clothing was pure cotton and didn't have any polyester. So much obsessive tag checking because he felt maybe heavier electric activity between mixed fabrics was leading to cancer and God was warning us. He thought all the weird laws were actually God looking out for us in secret ways. I remember him once suddenly pulling his car over in a rush home and jumping in a river to bathe before dark due to some belief that on this day he had to bath in his home and not be out working, Sabbath or something I guess. It was insane. He seemed to think he might go to Hell if he didn't make that jump. It was intense. If anyone had ever tried to call my dad a homophobe for believing in the one specific line while supposedly ignoring others, he would have buried them beneath a list of things they hadn't even heard of that he actually did very much observe 100%, much more than all the seafood crap all us atheists know about. There's way weirder stuff. He didn't have hate in his heart. He just thought the Bible was 100% true, it was therefore his responsibility to save the family from a horrible time in Hell, and was mortified that other Christians didn't even read it, much less follow it word for word. He was convinced every weird law was God blocking a vice that led to cancer or something, looking out for us. Oh, we rubbed blood outside the door on Passover so the green fog wouldn't harm the first born sons. I remember that scaring the Hell out of in-laws, that we literally rubbed sacrifice blood on the home. Gah. Anyone who tried that with him would get utterly nuclear bombed by the backfire, proving the exact opposite of what they intended, that he wasn't focusing on certain lines at all, and deeply believed it all, whether he liked it or not. That said, it's all BS, and was written by hateful people. But in a weird way I always admired that my family went all in on their beliefs in it being true instead of ignoring 90% of it while still clinging to their faith. Something about it is respectable actually, the honesty of it, a certain integrity. It's way easier to believe a guy doesn't personally have an issue with homosexuals when you see him suffering greatly through blood, sweat, and tears to take every other line as just as valid.
@@michaelsmith2619 I'm told that biblically I'm commanded to own a Mexican, but I'm not allowed to own a Canadian, and I just find that racist. Plus, I live way closer to Canada.
@@michaelsmith2619 The Bible doesn't say you're required to own slaves. It just says that it's OK, and that you have to follow a few rules, like not beating them all the way to death when you punish them.
“Atheism is a lie” is such a nonsensical statement, and it really shows how ignorant some theists are to even use this language. It makes as much sense as saying “not believing in big foot is a lie” or “not believing rice is the best tasting food is a lie” do they mean the think I’m lying that I don’t believe in their specific God? Am I not lying about not believing in other Gods? It just shows how shallow theist actually dive into their own reasons for believing what they believe. It’s all so surface level and it surprises me that people would willingly say something that makes no sense and still feel like they are winning the argument.
yOu DoN't UnDeRsTaND. God is a perfect being that created flawed babies and now we are so embarrassing to him that only the chosen ones are welcomed 🙄🤣
rather than Hinduism it would of been better to bring up those leaders who founded their own religion like Mohammad who lets remember, had a direct line to God via the archangel Gabriel and knew for a fact that Jesus was not a divine messenger. That would of undermined his revealed "to a few argument".
Ok, so you don’t believe in GOD,why are you complaining or explaining it over and over? I don’t believe pineapples go on pizza. I don’t spend hours discussing something that doesn’t work for me. Just move on. What is the purpose?
@kelvintonblortsmon2457 Dude, you're looking desperate if you answer every other comment under a single video and write multiple sentences in all caps. You claim to work in theology for 50+ years, but your comments read as if you were an angry 7-year-old who can't understand being the only Christian in a family of atheists. Just formulate your stance on atheism and religion, present evidence, support it with examples, make videos with that content, then people might actually take your points seriously.
If something can exist for which nobody has any evidence for, I could make up anything I want to (M&M’s-eating space-dwelling aardvarks that fly and spit acid), and hey, it might exist!
Well M&Ms exist and can be proven, space is out there and can be proven to be there, aardvarks certainly exist, animals can fly although not an aardvark, and acid and spit certainly exist and can be proven(saliva is actually a weak acid)so you have more proof for this claim than any religion.
sighs. The most perplexing aspect of the "theists" who call in to make their case for their theism is their refusal to acknowledge that their arguments fail their own original indictments about atheism. The only way atheism is a "lie" is if the atheist secretly "believes" but won't admit it. Yet that same exact situation is exactly true of the "believer" as well. With the added burden of multiple precedent, given the numerous self-admissions by "former theists" that they didn't "believe" while pretending (for years in some cases) to do so simply to continue to be accepted by their theistic community. Who are well known for "kicking people out of their faith-based community" for making that public admission. The degree to which "theists" are offended by "atheists" challenging them to prove their assertions is painfully obvious every week. And that very real human inclination to be validated by others as "right" is really the best (perhaps only) way to gauge the flimsy nature of most "theist's'" claim to "believe" or "have faith"!
It’ll never cease to amaze me just how brazenly irrational these callers will be ON A PUBLIC CALL IN SHOW. They thought to themselves “yeah! I’ll show those atheists! They won’t be able to beat these facts and logic” and we get what the Atheist Experience has documented for decades.
@kelvintonblortsmon2457 if a god was proven everyone would believe in the same god. Who has proven a god? did they get their noble peace prize? Nothing you said proves a god, you just insert on in without evidence. Saying "it must have been" is not evidence. The bible has a 6300 year old universe with talking animals. It can't be taken seriously because it got so much wrong. There was never a worldwide flood 4300 years ago.
@kelvintonblortsmon2457 A snowflake looks designed, it came from somewhere so it must have had a beginning. Does that mean there is a god designing and creation every single snowflake or is that how ice crystals form?
@kelvintonblortsmon2457 Loads of assertions without evidence. "The Bible speaks to these facts". They are not facts, why should anyone take any notice of the bible?
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’ “ Isaac Asimov.
The caller keeps asserting that there cannot be evidence for his god. But that's a claim in itself that would need evidence. Just because no one has any such evidence now doesn't mean such evidence cannot exist.
That's one of the biggest mistakes on the spiritual path. Chose God from a place of faith and love, then you are setting your faith on a stronger foundation. Have patience. A prove to me attitude will most likely lead to ditching said faith. God transcends man limited intellect.
Not believing has nothing to do with telling the truth 😁😁😁😁😁 BTW ... Hebrews 11:1-6: Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
11:40 This bit by Don went unnoticed. "I don't know" is an honest answer any atheist is perfectly comfortable with. And that's the best part of the whole deal - you don't need to waste precious life time making shit up to explain all the stuff you don't understand.
@TheFinalFanboy I don't need to try again. That's your answer. I know atheist are trolls... Give it time and one day you will realize that's a foundational step in the proof of a divine intelligence behind creation. I'm not referring to institutionalized religion. I'm talking about truth which exist outside of hypocritical religions...
I love that final comment. So basically he’s saying that God created some humans just for the purpose of torturing them forever. And yet we’re supposed to believe this is an all loving, all kind god.
@@dorkception2012 You guys speak with such a delusional arrogance. Common sense lol. Your small mind can't even realize or understand the divine intelligence behind all life on this planet. Blind atheists lol
It absolutely ASTOUNDS me that after all the explanations given to this jackass about how and why claiming "atheism is a lie" is a completely inapplicable assessment of the atheist position, he STILL stands by his initial claim!
Religious people should be fined for embarrassing the human race!! Imagine aliens coming and seeing half of us talking to thin air? They'd be pissing themselves! 😂
I really appreciate these shows, even if they seem redundant. Anyone who has the slightest curiosity and watches these will hopefully have the veil lifted.
I don't get why theists find the concept of atheism *not being a belief system* so challenging to understand. How can an atheist saying they don't believe in god, be lying? I don't believe in god; are you saying I'm lying about what I do or don't believe? How would you even know what I do or don't believe?
I think they try to make it a positive claim so they can refute it. This is a few years old, but it seems like in maybe the last year or so, the fashionable theist argument is to say that atheism is the claim that there's no gods. That claim obviously is unprovable, so they can argue against it pretty easily.
The only way I could be lying when I say I do not accept there is a god, is if I *do* believe in the existence of God. It's really that simple. I really don't understand wtf Mike was on about. Is he expecting me to present evidence that I don't believe in a supernatural being? What possible reason would I have to lie about what I don't believe? SMH
Not necessarily, because you can believe in the existence, but accept that you do not have good evidence. I believe that there is alien life out there, but I don't know. As such I wouldn't accept the definitive statement, "there is alien life out there", even if I believe there is.
@@vertigo4236 You can move your mind but you can't make it still because you are put together by thought. Stillness has nothing to do with will power or obeyance and can not belong to any book or person - not even you.
@@BobbyFriston Such pretty semantic sophistry you have there. Pity it doesn't actually hold any weight. There is zero reason why I should pay heed to biblical poetry.
Trying to convince a Christian that there is no evidence that their God exists is like trying to convince a schizophrenic that there is nobody out to get them. An irrational psychosis is impregnatable.
so god membership is a private club? and if it's only the select few that can know, why do they talk about it? would be interesting with more focus on what it is that feed the religious thoughts inside a human. like parent feeling, fear of dead and so on.
This happens when your a brain is on religion. Religion is a real hell of a drug! Nothing else can destroy a mind like this. Remember: "The theist would choose ignorance." Ignorance is reason for a decision! WOW!!!
Atheism is a position/response on one issue: not being convinced a god or gods exist. The only way I can see there being a lie is if I was truly a Christian or of another creed, and declared that I’m an atheist for some reason. That still doesn’t make atheism a lie. Every atheist could be lying and atheism still wouldn’t be a lie. That’s because it’s the HONEST position of not being convinced that a god or gods exist. A god or gods could still exist and atheism still wouldn’t be a lie. If a god or gods did appear to all human beings and convinced all of humanity that it was a god, atheism STILL wouldn’t be a lie. Because humans previous to this event did not believe in a god or gods. This is the problem with theists: like this caller, who actually properly defined atheism, STILL doesn’t seem to understand what it is. I think when he was defining it, he was repeating what he’s heard AXP say before but not getting what that means.
A man who thinks he is smart and wishes to demonstrate that to everyone by trying to offer a calm, logical argument, utterly unaware that he is destroying his own position with every word. what a joke. An excellent example of the Dunning-Kruger effect in action.
@kelvintonblortsmon2457 Thank you for your spirited response. I have a few points to make. Firstly, you said, “Try not to judge knowledge by your lack of it.” I feel obliged to explain the risks you take in presuming to know the thoughts and abilities of a complete stranger. I will not brag about my qualifications, experience and accomplishments here but suffice it to say, I am not a beginner on the this topic. Wow! I mean it is amazing that God is not only required but has been proven. Pretty much every theist in the world will at least admit that belief and faith are necessary but not you. You have real proof. Please share it with me and the rest of the world. Oh, and by the way, words in an old book are neither evidence nor proof, unless you can first prove the book. There is absolutely no point in quoting bible passages unless you can first prove that the bible is true, i.e. factual. Sadly, you cannot. Because it is not. There isn’t even a serious debate on this. Even the major Christians institutions accept that much of it is allegory, metaphor and myth and the further back in time you look, the less reliable is the text. Just take the creation myths in Genesis. If you genuinely believe Genesis 1 is scientifically accurate, you really do need to explain to the rest of us, especially the scientific community, how we have all got everything so wrong for so long. I am sorry to disillusion you but nothing you have said is true. Not one word. And using so many block capitals does not add emphasis to your words, it makes me doubt your health. I understand that you believe and I respect your right to do so but you absolutely do not have evidence to support your bold assertions and you do not have the proof you claim. You are free to hold whatever beliefs feel good for you but you may not assert them as facts without a shred of evidence. It is lying. If you wish to continue this discussion, I will be pleased to but I ask you to tone down the block capitals and try to respond with what you are able to demostrate, rather than just your beliefs/opinions. Have a great day.
"You guys are lying. Of course there's no evidence. There"s evidence...after you believe. There's evidence. Just not definitive evidence. --you mean not "good"evidence? "And you guys, expecting us to have had evidence already or provide you evidence now ... well it's just not reasonable. So you're lying."
The best possible evidence for any entity, is the entity itself, regardless of its ontology. So, a perfect omnipotent and omniscient being should be perfectly able to present the best possible evidence, which is itself. How is this hard to achieve for the gods still believed?
When I was still a Catholic, I could never have made such asinine claims like the Hindu god(s) = Christian god. Maybe that's b/c of my classical education, or proximity to a theological uni & Franciscan monks, or maybe b/c I was indoctrinated but never chose to blindly believe... except when I did 🤪
@@RideAcrossTheRiver Ole Jimmy has many names. Jim Castleberry and Edith Bromfeld are the ones he currently uses the most. Once in a while, he goes by Daft Dawkins or Dawkins Rich. He used to call himself Clyde Barrow. I began calling him cLied because he always accuses people of lying when they are definitely not. He is full of hate.
I’m an atheist now, but I grew up as a true believing Catholic. So I know what it is to believe in things that I now know don’t exist. It wasn’t a situation where I had doubts deep down. I did not. Blind belief is real. But so is not believing in religious explanations, or a God, as is my current situation.
As a former atheist who has now seen the light, I wish to propose an on line place for worship. I call it the Christian Unity New Testament Society, and I invite everyone to join me on Wednesday evening praise, just as long as no one calls us by our acronym.
He's claiming that we are lying about not believing that gods exist. Unless he can read our minds, he's full of shit. Evidence is testable, repeatable, and observable by non-believers. If you have to believe first, then it's not evidence.
Okay its a lie that gets me out of doing boring AF God ritual activities like worship and prayer. So what. And a good Thursday Morning 🌞 AXP Fans and Theists ❤❤❤ Peace Love Empathy From Australia 🇦🇺✌️🤠🤘
"I've seen no evidence of flying elephants. They don't seem possible if reality works the way I think it does, so if you say that they exist, I'll say I don't think so." "That's a LIE!!"
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“The theist would choose ignorance” had to be the best line in the history of the show. The fact that a theist is the one who said it makes it that much better
"The theist would choose ignorance."
Saying the quiet part out loud lol.
Yup he gave the whole game away 😂
Both are wrong though. Some people don't actually choose ignorance but just are. The ones who choose it are obviously worse (depending on how important the topic is).
Acting like you know everything and are better than everyone is also bad. I'm sure some people would be put off from even listening to someone who exudes arrogance, like that guy on the right. He seems too emotional.
@@DarkResonanceThe caller, like all religious people are arrogant
"The atheist ignores truth." See we can flip all of our words. The choice we have is to believe what here or to say "I can't even..."
@trufflesrheaven what that blatantly not true. Quite the contrary actually.
What is scary is that somewhere in his head, he thinks he's making sense
what scarrier yet,that he is one of few billions....
To be fair, a lot of people think that about us lolz
@@F_N_Inquisitor that's what I thought
@@F_N_Inquisitor Atheism is kinda the position of just saying "I don't know". I think that can make sense to religious types.
@@F_N_Inquisitor
Yes, and a lot of people say the Earth is flat.
"The theist would choose ignorance" may be the greatest line ever spoken on this show 😂
Atheists are ignorant. Theists choose faith.
@viktortandofsky6914
Not if you don't direct claims to us, we don't. If you shut up we are fully content.
@viktortandofsky6914See what NN said.
If you think to yourself "[this] is how I believe reality works" we couldn't care less.
If say to us that we should also believe [this] or we should change laws because of [this], then you very much have to justify your claim.
@viktortandofsky6914 Shut da fook up and you don't have to HAHAHAHAHA
@@mikerodgers7620How is it ignorant to be Unconvinced of something that has no evidence?
That’s basic common sense.
“Faith” has led theists to at least 3000 different gods.
So even IF one of those gods was actually Real, “Faith” is 1500x less reliable than a coin toss at getting you to the correct one.
You don’t believe in 2999 of those Gods.
I don’t believe in 3000 of them.
Thats a difference of 0.03%
The theist says "there's a god" The atheist says "I don't believe you." That's it. That's the atheist position. I don't believe you. That cannot be a lie. It's an opinion.
The irony is that the only way for it to be a lie is for the “atheist” to be… well, not.
It is only a lie if the theist has provided convincing evidence for his assertion, but you choose to deliberately ignore the evidence.
Creationists' arguments have been convincingly debunked, but they continue to use the same debunked arguments. So, creationism is a lie.
@@themanifestmage And that's the thing. They use one scripture in Romans to "prove" that god is self-evident and therefore anyone who says they don't believe is simply lying because they want to sin. It's circular and ad-homien at best.
@kelvintonblortsmon2457you just simply used the god of gaps fallacy. “I dont know the answer so its god” thats weak. Thats not an argument.
The theist says most people who have ever lived believed in some kind of god and most people alive in the modern west today believe in some kind of supernatural realm. Perhaps you need to bring forth evidence in support of your extraordinary claim that all these countless hordes are wrong because they cannot prove their belief according to a standard of measure invented 20 minutes ago (relatively soeaking).
An absolute master class in how to destroy a ridiculous argument.
In your mind only. 😁
The caller is destroying their own arguments themselves already.
You smell too many farts. 😃@@AXKfUN9m
@@mikerodgers7620 And in the mind of everyone who understands the protocols of logic.
Save it heathen.@@donnievance1942
Faith is the art of lying to yourself.
If they can lie to themselves, they will surely lie to you.
Indeed. If one believes in something for which they have no evidence, then they're choosing to believe it for no other reason than because they want to. It's wishful thinking.
Don't get my wrong, I'd love for there to be a god. I mean, not any of the gods in the holy books, those gods are dickheads. But a truly kind, loving, superior being, the existence of magic, living in a paradise and getting to see long lost loved ones again, that all sounds great. But there's nothing indicative of that being the case, and I couldn't force myself to believe something just because it sounds nice.
😂 this is great lol
I have faith the key I use will start my car.
@@democrat7441 wow ! Congrats you haven’t said anything at all or proven anything 😂
His last response is "yeah but if we had evidence like that then it would go against the presupposition I have made regarding this god idea." Sure. So what? Since there's no reason at all to believe your presupposition is correct, this is not an argument.
"First, produce the defendant" 🤣
Yep. Habeus corpus.
This caller is a spectacular example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
😆YES!
Damn you! I have to Google dunning...yes it is
@@radioactivetrees9626 you're welcome 😉
Wrong.
80% of people think they're above average.
How can something that isn't even a truth statement be a lie?
When you're stupid it can be.
Because someone in church told him this line and he isn't capable of rational thought to go any further.
It wouldn't suprise me if 90% of discussions people don't talk about the same thing.
If someone says, "I don't believe that gods exist" it is not impossible that they are lying and they actually do believe that at least one god exists. But , depending on the person, it may be difficult to prove they are lying. And to take that a step further, it would be extremely difficult to prove that every person who makes such a claim is lying. So difficult that I cannot even conceive how anyone could begin to do it. Therefore, anyone making the claim that "atheism is a lie" either cannot reasonably support their claim, or is so clever and well-informed that they may as well be a god themselves. This caller did not seem to possess those qualities.
Hey, "extraordinary claim ...." etc. Literally billions of people believe in a supernatural realm and, so far we can tell, always have. The majority of people in the modern west are to some extent, and totally irrationally, superstitious. Many believe in ghosts, goolies, phantoms, bad luck, good luck, omens, charms, witchcraft and wizardry. But atheism (I assume) denies the existence of any such realm of the supernatural. Therefore atheists are making the extraordinary claim that the majority of human beings who ever lived, and perhaps most of those still alive today - are wrong! And then have the audacity to ask them for proof! Your arrogance defies measurement.
Theists tell us all the time that they have evidence that proves their deity exists yet every single time they are challenged to present that evidence they dodge and deflect before they flail and fail. With a 100% failure rate, how is it that Atheists are the liars exactly?
@@Jcs57 Yeah! With FLAWLESS logic like that HOW could they POSSIBLY fail, LOLOL
@@Jcs57 yes, the bible never contradicts itself and also God loves everyone unless they don't worship him - that's how real love looks like. 🤔
Or they point to the bible and say "SEE!?" as if that is evidence lol.
@viktortandofsky6914yeah, there's probably no proof anyway.
@@jonclark8252it's frustrating when theists say we need to provide proof god does not exist...
Mike is a perfect example of why I deconverted from religion
If no one can know whether gods exist, and you claim a god exists, wouldn't you be the one lying? Because you are claiming to know something you've admitted no one can know? This is why I think faith is inherently dishonest.
Mike tried to evade that by claiming he doesn't know his god exists, he just believes it. In that case he's deceiving himself by accepting claims on faith instead of evidence.
Every theist accusation is a confession
@kelvintonblortsmon2457 You just made a bunch of claims, with no substantiation. Knowledge is justified belief. Meaning you can show the belief maps accurately to reality. God has NOT been proved, proofs are for mathematics and alcohol. You also haven't demonstrated a god is needed for the universe to begin and go through processes.
We don't even know if the universe needed a caused for it's current instantiation to begin, like some quantum phenomenon appear to have no causes. Even if you could demonstrate the universe needed a cause, you would have to demonstrate your god exists and could be a possible cause, then demonstrate it was the cause. That means you need evidence for your god, evidence being a body of verifiable facts that solely indicate the truth of a claim. Truth being that which can be demonstrated to comport with reality, or that which can be shown to be real.
The Bible hold the claims, you can't use it to substantiate itself, that would be circular.
@kelvintonblortsmon2457 The Bible hold the claims, it would be circular to use the bible to justify the claims made in the bible.
Knowledge is justifiable belief, at least the way I and others use it. Believing something means you are convinced it is true, you know it if you can also demonstrate it is true. Proof is for math and alcohol, you need evidence for your god and Bible. Evidence being a body of verifiable facts, that solely indicate the truth of a claim. Truth being that which can be shown to be real, or comport with reality.
@kelvintonblortsmon2457 Get an education .
God disconnected him, even he couldn't listen to his bullshit anymore..
Supposedly, that was the original hell. Complete isolation from god.
@@karlajaeger2082 thats why atheist are not as happy as religious people... Facts.
The argument that "atheists really believe in god, they just deny it so they can sin!" is possibly one of the stupidest apologetics arguments I've ever heard. Those kinds of apologists just cannot conceive of a mindset that doesn't believe, or even isn't capable of that sort of belief without evidence or sound reason.
Nooo you don't get it! I know god is real, but i want to sin, so i choose to deny god exists, including not repenting to him, which makes SURE i am punished for my sins that i love doing! What's illogical about that? /s
Yup, and like many apologetic arguments, the accusation is an admission. Many theists (especially Christians) believe in their god so they can sin, because in their minds their god will forgive them as long as they pray sorry and that's all that matters. That's assuming the transgression isn't something their god actually condones (e.g. oppressing LGBTQ+ people, slavery, etc.).
Its funny because America is one of the most religious nations and the one with a ridiculous incarceration rate. The belief doesn't stop people from sinning.....if anything since they believe they will be forgiven at a church that will help them cope with their crimes. Just teach your children morals you don't need religion for that.
@@OzmaLogical That's an interesting twist on it! After all, Christians are amongst the most egregious sinners of all. Between the Western European powers that eventually emerged from the Roman Empire, they enslaved half the planet!
@@JT-yl9yt I suspect morals have nothing to do with religion or lack of it, they're to do with how you were brought, in combination with good or bad luck with your genetics. Of all the historical monsters I can think of, while some have been atheist (the various communists, mainly), the rest have happily used god to justify their tyranny, and believed their rule was divinely ordained.
This caller: "Atheism is a lie."
Also this caller: "Nobody has any evidence God exists."
So then, how is atheism a lie, if theists can't prove to atheists that God exists?
This is like Einstein debating a feral primate.
And the feral primate thinking he’s the smart one 😂😂😂
And that wouldn't be fer.
😂EXACTY!
That's rude to the primate
I'm pretty sure a feral primate would have beaten the shit out of Einstein, all things being equal.
One of the best things about the older episodes is Don laughing at ridiculousness
I know right!
Laughing at himself.
@@mikerodgers7620 "Formally, I call it Objectivism, but informally I call it a philosophy for living on earth. You will find an explicit presentation of it in my books, particularly in Atlas Shrugged."
-Ayn Rand-
Unbelievable how he twice set up a trap and then walked right into it himself. Total lack of self awareness.
I didn’t even see the trap, so it must’ve been a dumb one.
@@jexelbur6872 first on the ignorance and later on the court case.
Bible does not teach it.
I almost have to admire this guy! They completely eviscerated him in about a minute, but he gamely waded back into the fight... like Rocky Balboa with ten times the brain damage.
To conflate Ganesh and Jesus is to ignore the elephant in the room.
No mention of conflating Jesus and Hayagriva, I suppose that would be putting the cart before the horse.
And what an elephant was doing in my conflates is something I'll never know.
bad dad joke
Deffo not 'armless.
Well the elephant head.
Saying atheism is a lie is like saying arachnophobia is a lie.
Slam Dunked by his own words. I can just see a guy in robes blowing a whistle and screaming, "The basket is over there!"
“Faith is the reason people give for believing something when they don’t have a good (sound) reason”.
Well said.
Seeing a good or sound reason is why many people chose a faith based life. This guy just throws out sh*t to confuse his callers and wins arguments to try and make his stance look more valid...
The caller begins on distinctly the wrong foot. "Last time I called, you hung up on me. I hope that won't happen again."
Why, because you learned something from your mistake the last time? Because if you lack that capacity, it would be reasonable to expect that you'll get hung up on again.
11:24 I'm reminded of the time I found a bigot hiding behind his bible so I asked him if he protested Red Lobster with the same fervor, given that it is an abomination in the eyes of his god.
He called me a hypocrite because _"no one follows that part!"_ and that really sums up a lot of both religion and politics.
Even though I'm not a bigot at all, sometimes I wish someone had tried this line of popular argument against my father just to watch his probable response of laughing in disbelief and asking, "Oh, you think THAT is the extent of my pickiness? Avoiding Red Lobster? If only! Oh, my, what you have yet to learn."
My family were good people at heart but they were totally slaves of the religion and my father in fact had us follow every line of all of it that wouldn't have landed us in prison. Every. Line.
He delivered all his children at home himself without the help of doctors and we were exempted from certain "mandatory" childhood vaccines on religious reasons (not the modern vaccine-fear stuff, he generally liked them, but some contain supposedly "unclean" banned materials).
We couldn't eat all sorts of things, every single thing Leviticus banned of course. And we couldn't wear mixed fabrics. This usually meant making sure clothing was pure cotton and didn't have any polyester. So much obsessive tag checking because he felt maybe heavier electric activity between mixed fabrics was leading to cancer and God was warning us. He thought all the weird laws were actually God looking out for us in secret ways.
I remember him once suddenly pulling his car over in a rush home and jumping in a river to bathe before dark due to some belief that on this day he had to bath in his home and not be out working, Sabbath or something I guess. It was insane. He seemed to think he might go to Hell if he didn't make that jump.
It was intense. If anyone had ever tried to call my dad a homophobe for believing in the one specific line while supposedly ignoring others, he would have buried them beneath a list of things they hadn't even heard of that he actually did very much observe 100%, much more than all the seafood crap all us atheists know about. There's way weirder stuff. He didn't have hate in his heart. He just thought the Bible was 100% true, it was therefore his responsibility to save the family from a horrible time in Hell, and was mortified that other Christians didn't even read it, much less follow it word for word. He was convinced every weird law was God blocking a vice that led to cancer or something, looking out for us.
Oh, we rubbed blood outside the door on Passover so the green fog wouldn't harm the first born sons. I remember that scaring the Hell out of in-laws, that we literally rubbed sacrifice blood on the home. Gah. Anyone who tried that with him would get utterly nuclear bombed by the backfire, proving the exact opposite of what they intended, that he wasn't focusing on certain lines at all, and deeply believed it all, whether he liked it or not.
That said, it's all BS, and was written by hateful people. But in a weird way I always admired that my family went all in on their beliefs in it being true instead of ignoring 90% of it while still clinging to their faith. Something about it is respectable actually, the honesty of it, a certain integrity.
It's way easier to believe a guy doesn't personally have an issue with homosexuals when you see him suffering greatly through blood, sweat, and tears to take every other line as just as valid.
@flashraylaser157 I wonder how he was raised, that sounds intense.
@flashraylaser157 how many slaves did your father own? If he didn't think slavery was ok, he wasn't following the whole Bible.
@@michaelsmith2619 I'm told that biblically I'm commanded to own a Mexican, but I'm not allowed to own a Canadian, and I just find that racist. Plus, I live way closer to Canada.
@@michaelsmith2619 The Bible doesn't say you're required to own slaves. It just says that it's OK, and that you have to follow a few rules, like not beating them all the way to death when you punish them.
If god was real he would still be an incompetent and malicious a hole not worthy of my interest.
The Christian god would be.
However, Dionysos could be a fun guy.
@@landsgevaer I wanna hang out with Diana and Ceres--hippie goddesses!
“Atheism is a lie” is such a nonsensical statement, and it really shows how ignorant some theists are to even use this language. It makes as much sense as saying “not believing in big foot is a lie” or “not believing rice is the best tasting food is a lie” do they mean the think I’m lying that I don’t believe in their specific God? Am I not lying about not believing in other Gods? It just shows how shallow theist actually dive into their own reasons for believing what they believe. It’s all so surface level and it surprises me that people would willingly say something that makes no sense and still feel like they are winning the argument.
Christians trying to "explain" their ridiculous beliefs are the 2nd best way to create atheists. The best way is to read their idiot book. 🙂
That whole "god has a select few" is beyond grotesque.
yOu DoN't UnDeRsTaND. God is a perfect being that created flawed babies and now we are so embarrassing to him that only the chosen ones are welcomed 🙄🤣
Aaaah, but it is all planned out so you don't get any choices or understanding ... ffs some of theseTheist need therapy and a good talking to :(
Like a certain German Reich with selection mmmhm.
rather than Hinduism it would of been better to bring up those leaders who founded their own religion like Mohammad who lets remember, had a direct line to God via the archangel Gabriel and knew for a fact that Jesus was not a divine messenger. That would of undermined his revealed "to a few argument".
Ok, so you don’t believe in GOD,why are you complaining or explaining it over and over? I don’t believe pineapples go on pizza. I don’t spend hours discussing something that doesn’t work for me. Just move on. What is the purpose?
I get such a kick out of Don's condescending laugh 😄
I reject your claim that it is a condescending laugh :P
13:30 - "You can't get the evidence without believing first."
I've just started responding to this with, "Did Abraham believe first?"
I love that the way the caller describes a lie at 4:38, pretty much sums up religion.
@kelvintonblortsmon2457 Dude, you're looking desperate if you answer every other comment under a single video and write multiple sentences in all caps. You claim to work in theology for 50+ years, but your comments read as if you were an angry 7-year-old who can't understand being the only Christian in a family of atheists.
Just formulate your stance on atheism and religion, present evidence, support it with examples, make videos with that content, then people might actually take your points seriously.
If something can exist for which nobody has any evidence for, I could make up anything I want to (M&M’s-eating space-dwelling aardvarks that fly and spit acid), and hey, it might exist!
And I am not convinced so I am a liar 🤪
Well M&Ms exist and can be proven, space is out there and can be proven to be there, aardvarks certainly exist, animals can fly although not an aardvark, and acid and spit certainly exist and can be proven(saliva is actually a weak acid)so you have more proof for this claim than any religion.
I can accept space aardvarks, but where are they getting the M&M's from? ;p
This was one of the more frustrating calls
Yeah, the people who don't believe in a magical super being are the liars. Cause that doesn't sound fuggin' stupid.
caller is uttering nonsense mistaking the show for his church.
11:35 My favorite part of these videos now are the moments when everyone not on camera cracks up laughing! ♥
I was Mormon as a youth. Just go to testimony Sunday. I can confirm unequivocally that "believers" absolutely do claim to KNOW that God exists.
Multiple times he went back to “god only wants a select few” what happened to “god loves us all”. Lucky the caller is so special
17:05 What an excellent analogy to end the call 👏
Dear AXP, thank you for posting these older clips, so much better than currect episodes,
Belief is not equal to proof. Disbelieve and you will see why so many disbelieve.
Disbelief is easy. Faith is not for the fickle...
"The theist would choose ignorance." Yep! "God: Mike! I choose you!!" 🤣
sighs. The most perplexing aspect of the "theists" who call in to make their case for their theism is their refusal to acknowledge that their arguments fail their own original indictments about atheism.
The only way atheism is a "lie" is if the atheist secretly "believes" but won't admit it. Yet that same exact situation is exactly true of the "believer" as well.
With the added burden of multiple precedent, given the numerous self-admissions by "former theists" that they didn't "believe" while pretending (for years in some cases) to do so simply to continue to be accepted by their theistic community. Who are well known for "kicking people out of their faith-based community" for making that public admission.
The degree to which "theists" are offended by "atheists" challenging them to prove their assertions is painfully obvious every week. And that very real human inclination to be validated by others as "right" is really the best (perhaps only) way to gauge the flimsy nature of most "theist's'" claim to "believe" or "have faith"!
It’ll never cease to amaze me just how brazenly irrational these callers will be ON A PUBLIC CALL IN SHOW. They thought to themselves “yeah! I’ll show those atheists! They won’t be able to beat these facts and logic” and we get what the Atheist Experience has documented for decades.
@kelvintonblortsmon2457 "Intellectual suicide" is believing a wizard did it.
He already admitted that there is no way to prove a god. why can he not accept that people don't believe what he cannot prove?
@kelvintonblortsmon2457 if a god was proven everyone would believe in the same god.
Who has proven a god? did they get their noble peace prize?
Nothing you said proves a god, you just insert on in without evidence. Saying "it must have been" is not evidence.
The bible has a 6300 year old universe with talking animals. It can't be taken seriously because it got so much wrong. There was never a worldwide flood 4300 years ago.
@kelvintonblortsmon2457 A snowflake looks designed, it came from somewhere so it must have had a beginning. Does that mean there is a god designing and creation every single snowflake or is that how ice crystals form?
@kelvintonblortsmon2457 Loads of assertions without evidence. "The Bible speaks to these facts". They are not facts, why should anyone take any notice of the bible?
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’ “
Isaac Asimov.
The caller keeps asserting that there cannot be evidence for his god. But that's a claim in itself that would need evidence. Just because no one has any such evidence now doesn't mean such evidence cannot exist.
There cannot be evidence for his god if his god-concept is intrinsically inconsistent, and it is.
QED
Faith is the justification for accepting a proposition without evidence.
Not a lawyer, but the legal term is Pre-judice.
"...then God's a dick." That would be putting it mildly after reading the Bible.
Holy shit! Religious people choose ignorance over arrogance though not being ignorant doesn’t imply arrogance!
There is no evidence, valid or otherwise.
Maybe you lack receptivity and proper faith. Don't blame a lack of evidence for the existence of a higher power on your lack of understanding.
@@realiltyNah, he’s right. There’s no evidence.
@@dennish.7708 Sorry brother that's an ignorant take. Stone age perception...
13:51 Even when I was a devout Christian and believed, I never got evidence. What started me from deconstructing was that lack of evidence.
That's one of the biggest mistakes on the spiritual path. Chose God from a place of faith and love, then you are setting your faith on a stronger foundation. Have patience. A prove to me attitude will most likely lead to ditching said faith. God transcends man limited intellect.
Not believing has nothing to do with telling the truth 😁😁😁😁😁 BTW ... Hebrews 11:1-6: Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
11:40 This bit by Don went unnoticed. "I don't know" is an honest answer any atheist is perfectly comfortable with. And that's the best part of the whole deal - you don't need to waste precious life time making shit up to explain all the stuff you don't understand.
The pure arrogance of theists to call atheists liars is breathtaking.
Some things you guys say are delusional though...
Too many to list... I'm not Christian. I understand you guys don't believe in a higher intelligence and other such things. Whatever floats your boat.
@TheFinalFanboy You guys think God can be realized through the intellect. That's your biggest mistake and chief delusion.
@TheFinalFanboy That fine tuning of the universe is an accident or chance lol. You guys are slow
@TheFinalFanboy I don't need to try again. That's your answer. I know atheist are trolls... Give it time and one day you will realize that's a foundational step in the proof of a divine intelligence behind creation. I'm not referring to institutionalized religion. I'm talking about truth which exist outside of hypocritical religions...
"That's kind of a loaded question."
You're goddamned right it is.
It takes a lot mental gymnastics to hold Mike's position.
I love that final comment.
So basically he’s saying that God created some humans just for the purpose of torturing them forever. And yet we’re supposed to believe this is an all loving, all kind god.
Theistic brains turn to mush after a few years in the presence of the absurd christian theology.
I don't think the caller understood how problematic the concept of a God that only reveals to some people actually is.
'The Christian god is the god for everyone'
There is the religious arrogance and ignorance on full display.
Scary.
nothing more arrogant than this atheist host
@@realilty So in your dictionary 'arrogance' is equal with 'common sense'. Got it!
@@dorkception2012 You guys speak with such a delusional arrogance. Common sense lol. Your small mind can't even realize or understand the divine intelligence behind all life on this planet. Blind atheists lol
It absolutely ASTOUNDS me that after all the explanations given to this jackass about how and why claiming "atheism is a lie" is a completely inapplicable assessment of the atheist position, he STILL stands by his initial claim!
Never believe anything that requires belief to make it true!
Believing something without any evidence is blind faith, and all religions require that of their followers.
Religious people should be fined for embarrassing the human race!! Imagine aliens coming and seeing half of us talking to thin air? They'd be pissing themselves! 😂
Ain’t that something!
They really do believe in the most atrocious things.
Saying atheism is a lie doesn’t even make sense.
I miss the old days of atheist call-in shows before theists started keeping their more entertaining ideas to themselves.
I really appreciate these shows, even if they seem redundant. Anyone who has the slightest curiosity and watches these will hopefully have the veil lifted.
Theist: My god answers prayers.
Theist: There is no evidence i can provide for my god. Therefore, god cannot be answering prayers.
@kelvintonblortsmon2457 Do you have actual evidence for that? Anything beyond your philosophy?
Theists willingly choose ignorance over facts, reason and evidence every time.
Mic drop. Choosing ignorance
Disbelief is not assuming your wrong but just not being convinced your right.. love that quote
Faith is belief without evidence, which is why it's called something other than proof.
@kelvintonblortsmon2457All faith is blind. Deaf. Dumb. Too bad it's not also mute.
@kelvintonblortsmon2457"Biblical truths" did you say? I think we are done here.
@kelvintonblortsmon2457wrong. You are very uneducated
@kelvintonblortsmon2457you can’t educate anyone because you are beyond unintelligent
@kelvintonblortsmon2457And the good reasons to believe r?
I don't get why theists find the concept of atheism *not being a belief system* so challenging to understand. How can an atheist saying they don't believe in god, be lying? I don't believe in god; are you saying I'm lying about what I do or don't believe? How would you even know what I do or don't believe?
I think they try to make it a positive claim so they can refute it. This is a few years old, but it seems like in maybe the last year or so, the fashionable theist argument is to say that atheism is the claim that there's no gods. That claim obviously is unprovable, so they can argue against it pretty easily.
The only way I could be lying when I say I do not accept there is a god, is if I *do* believe in the existence of God.
It's really that simple. I really don't understand wtf Mike was on about.
Is he expecting me to present evidence that I don't believe in a supernatural being?
What possible reason would I have to lie about what I don't believe?
SMH
Not necessarily, because you can believe in the existence, but accept that you do not have good evidence.
I believe that there is alien life out there, but I don't know.
As such I wouldn't accept the definitive statement, "there is alien life out there", even if I believe there is.
The moving mind says "I do not accept there is a god."
The moving mind is limitation itself. DUH
"Be still and know that I am God." Psalm 46.10 NIV
@@BobbyFriston
Yeah, I prefer to "move" my mind and think.
If you prefer to not think for yourself and obey a book, that's on you.
@@vertigo4236 You can move your mind but you can't make it still because you are put together by thought. Stillness has nothing to do with will power or obeyance and can not belong to any book or person - not even you.
@@BobbyFriston
Such pretty semantic sophistry you have there.
Pity it doesn't actually hold any weight.
There is zero reason why I should pay heed to biblical poetry.
Trying to convince a Christian that there is no evidence that their God exists is like trying to convince a schizophrenic that there is nobody out to get them. An irrational psychosis is impregnatable.
so god membership is a private club? and if it's only the select few that can know, why do they talk about it?
would be interesting with more focus on what it is that feed the religious thoughts inside a human. like parent feeling, fear of dead and so on.
Hence why "Faith, Hope & Beliefs" and "Denial & Ignorance" are designated as 2 of the 10-Enemies of self-improvement in Self-Relativity.
I've had xians tell me the same thing. Weak sauce
14:15 I think the argument is “the Christian god is the true god, other religions are just confused and gave him the wrong name”.
This happens when your a brain is on religion.
Religion is a real hell of a drug!
Nothing else can destroy a mind like this.
Remember: "The theist would choose ignorance."
Ignorance is reason for a decision! WOW!!!
"the theist would choose ignorance" 😂😂😂😂😂
Didn't Jesus have to prove to someone by showing him the wounds oh his hands and feet?
Supposedly Thomas.
(But I doubt it.)
Not just showing...
Putting his finger in them.
Oh yeah. Thomas fingered the s#** out of those hand holes. 👉👌
Yes, his hands were holey...
Dolby Thomas
(Or so I've heard.)
Atheism is a position/response on one issue: not being convinced a god or gods exist. The only way I can see there being a lie is if I was truly a Christian or of another creed, and declared that I’m an atheist for some reason. That still doesn’t make atheism a lie. Every atheist could be lying and atheism still wouldn’t be a lie. That’s because it’s the HONEST position of not being convinced that a god or gods exist. A god or gods could still exist and atheism still wouldn’t be a lie. If a god or gods did appear to all human beings and convinced all of humanity that it was a god, atheism STILL wouldn’t be a lie. Because humans previous to this event did not believe in a god or gods. This is the problem with theists: like this caller, who actually properly defined atheism, STILL doesn’t seem to understand what it is. I think when he was defining it, he was repeating what he’s heard AXP say before but not getting what that means.
A man who thinks he is smart and wishes to demonstrate that to everyone by trying to offer a calm, logical argument, utterly unaware that he is destroying his own position with every word.
what a joke. An excellent example of the Dunning-Kruger effect in action.
@kelvintonblortsmon2457 Thank you for your spirited response. I have a few points to make.
Firstly, you said, “Try not to judge knowledge by your lack of it.”
I feel obliged to explain the risks you take in presuming to know the thoughts and abilities of a complete stranger.
I will not brag about my qualifications, experience and accomplishments here but suffice it to say, I am not a beginner on the this topic.
Wow! I mean it is amazing that God is not only required but has been proven.
Pretty much every theist in the world will at least admit that belief and faith are necessary but not you. You have real proof.
Please share it with me and the rest of the world.
Oh, and by the way, words in an old book are neither evidence nor proof, unless you can first prove the book.
There is absolutely no point in quoting bible passages unless you can first prove that the bible is true, i.e. factual.
Sadly, you cannot. Because it is not.
There isn’t even a serious debate on this.
Even the major Christians institutions accept that much of it is allegory, metaphor and myth and the further back in time you look, the less reliable is the text.
Just take the creation myths in Genesis. If you genuinely believe Genesis 1 is scientifically accurate, you really do need to explain to the rest of us, especially the scientific community, how we have all got everything so wrong for so long.
I am sorry to disillusion you but nothing you have said is true. Not one word.
And using so many block capitals does not add emphasis to your words, it makes me doubt your health.
I understand that you believe and I respect your right to do so but you absolutely do not have evidence to support your bold assertions and you do not have the proof you claim.
You are free to hold whatever beliefs feel good for you but you may not assert them as facts without a shred of evidence. It is lying.
If you wish to continue this discussion, I will be pleased to but I ask you to tone down the block capitals and try to respond with what you are able to demostrate, rather than just your beliefs/opinions.
Have a great day.
is that a flying spaghetti monster plush doll ???
11:23 LMFAO!!
"You guys are lying.
Of course there's no evidence.
There"s evidence...after you believe.
There's evidence. Just not definitive evidence.
--you mean not "good"evidence?
"And you guys, expecting us to have had evidence already or provide you evidence now ... well it's just not reasonable. So you're lying."
"Atheism is a lie" is such a sloppily worded premise
The best possible evidence for any entity, is the entity itself, regardless of its ontology.
So, a perfect omnipotent and omniscient being should be perfectly able to present the best possible evidence, which is itself.
How is this hard to achieve for the gods still believed?
When I was still a Catholic, I could never have made such asinine claims like the Hindu god(s) = Christian god. Maybe that's b/c of my classical education, or proximity to a theological uni & Franciscan monks, or maybe b/c I was indoctrinated but never chose to blindly believe... except when I did 🤪
"you cannot get the evidence without starting to believe first"
Just like the story of Paul right?
Is the caller Jim Castleberry? Hello, cLied.
They're saying Jim is Edith Somebody.
@@RideAcrossTheRiver Ole Jimmy has many names. Jim Castleberry and Edith Bromfeld are the ones he currently uses the most. Once in a while, he goes by Daft Dawkins or Dawkins Rich. He used to call himself Clyde Barrow. I began calling him cLied because he always accuses people of lying when they are definitely not. He is full of hate.
I’m an atheist now, but I grew up as a true believing Catholic. So I know what it is to believe in things that I now know don’t exist. It wasn’t a situation where I had doubts deep down. I did not. Blind belief is real. But so is not believing in religious explanations, or a God, as is my current situation.
As a former atheist who has now seen the light, I wish to propose an on line place for worship. I call it the Christian Unity New Testament Society, and I invite everyone to join me on Wednesday evening praise, just as long as no one calls us by our acronym.
"As a former atheist who has now seen the light" As a former prince of Uganda who has now his fortune saved by email...
@@Seticzech
Do you wish to join my online group of C.U.N.T.S?
@@Seticzech
Do you wish to donate to the Christian Unity New Testament Society?
😂 Nice one!
@@thomaswigfield7623 "Do you wish to join my online group of C.U.N.T.S?" 🤣👍
He's claiming that we are lying about not believing that gods exist.
Unless he can read our minds, he's full of shit.
Evidence is testable, repeatable, and observable by non-believers.
If you have to believe first, then it's not evidence.
Okay its a lie that gets me out of doing boring AF God ritual activities like worship and prayer.
So what.
And a good Thursday Morning 🌞 AXP Fans and Theists ❤❤❤
Peace Love Empathy From Australia 🇦🇺✌️🤠🤘
"I've seen no evidence of flying elephants. They don't seem possible if reality works the way I think it does, so if you say that they exist, I'll say I don't think so."
"That's a LIE!!"
I wish they could get some of the people back on to see how they thought the call went after watching it back
This has happened.
When it comrs down to it, theists hate to admit there is no evidence when called out on their clams there is evidence.